are only about 16 republican senators that would have backed nixon. nixon knew he was doomed. he left 40 years ago because there's no party turned on him. barry goldwater turned on nixon and said get out of here. that's not what conservatism is about. we're not about break the laws. so the conservative movement isn't shed. there's a new book out where he's talking about the fall of nixon and the rise of reagan, when nixon -- nixon used to say, at least in the tapes, people, the liberals hate me, don't understand. they lose me, it's all right-wing conservatism on the other side, that i'm the liberal moderate of the republican party. and instead of wanting to do business with me and liking me, they're trashing me, and they lose me, they're going to get to the far right. that's where the politics is at

today. reagan is the anything beneficial. that's the thing, they're the two biggest political figures. there's really no such thing as a nixon republican or democratic democrat or jan son democrat but there are such things as reagan republicans, even reagan democrats. are the and reagan big figures. host: doug brinkley is a native of northeast ohio, a graduate, and he's dr. brinkley because of georgetown university. currently he teaches at rice. brian in east massachusetts, republican. hi, brian. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i had two questions for you. i understand that nixon's mother was a father and that his father was failed in a lemon rafrpbl. i wonder how that afect the

nation. also, what about nixon's participation with whitaker chambers and the pumpkin paper? do you think that had any effect on when nixon resigned? thank you very much for my que. caller: you're pointing out, who is this boy, richard nixon? you talk about his parents. it's going to a whole linebacker. now it's all sprawled for nixon. when it was learn, he was a where i grew up. but it was a lot of talking cowboys and there was something defeat about nixon. he became the nerd out of high school, and then he became the wing tip businessman lawyer, and so he compensated for growing up in such a tough, hard-scrabble, macho environment by talking rough language. every moment in the take place, get him, the s.o.b., the

bastards, and that was the way for him to dominate a room. it was a way to show that he was tough, and that matters to him a lot, because i believe he was not seen as being tough when he was young and grew up. there is -- there's a good book hat recently came out, a historian named swift, pat nixon and richard nixon, and really, their love story. i recommend you read that it's a father and a husband, and see, yes, but the one good thing, if you're feeling seniority for nixon, he knew politics was a blood sport. i mean, his goodbye 40 years ago was from theodore roosevelt speech, it's better to be in the arena than being marred by the dust and the blood and the sweat, to be one of those timid creatures that don't engage that sit on the sidelines.

nixon took his resignation to be a hardball politician like himself. and he came back and tried to rehabilitate himself and did partially by writing books on foreign affairs, doing things like the froth nixon interviews, and to the point where when bill clinton is president, he's consulting nixon on the soviet union, or then russia what to do with some of the satellite countries, places like the ukraine and a lot. so nixon was seen as a foreign policy sage in his later years. when he died, all the former presidents came out to california to be at his time, or his burial. host: september 7, 1972, 10:32 a.m., following the shooting of controversial presidential candidate george wallace, prominent politicians, whether they were candidates for the presidency or not, were offered temporary secret service

protection. this is bob haldeman, jon erlichman, and richard nixon. you've got one u.s. senator, kennedy, a secondary factor in the campaign. you give him secret service coverage throughout the ampaign, at the same time, haldeman, if he gets shot, it's our fault. nixon, you understand what the problem is? if he gets shot, they'll say we didn't fun initial it, so you just buy his insurance. then after the election, he doesn't get a g.d. thing. if he gets shot, too damn bad. guest: there's the tough language of nixon. it's eye-opening, right? he can't stand ted kennedy, and he trails ted kennedy around, but in this case, with the secret service, he says it goes on, and he'll say, i won't get a secret service, but i want him to be a spy for me, he even

named secret service guys not to use. well, we'll put somebody so we'll get dirt on what kennedy is doing around the country. and then that whole line, once the election is over, let's pull the secret service in, who cares if he gets killed. that's the kind of quote, parts of the tape that just -- it just damages nixon's reputation terribly, because, you know, a ken dead kennedy is not talking about in that kind of fashion after we experienced j.f.k. and bobby's death, for him to be that crude, it doesn't look well. no mom and saying want you to have that attitude when you grow up. that's the kind of taul that ronald reagan would never, for example, have taken part in, or franklin roosevelt. host: last call for doug brinkley comes from cheryl in virginia. hi, cheryl. caller: yes, hi. thanks a lot. thank you, dr. brinkley. i was really glad to see you on

today, because i have been tching on c-span the old hearings, you know, in congress about the impeachment and the attempt to impeach the president. how, theent nixon.i was strucky demeanor during the hearings. moreally there was so much o treat eachm t other with a manner of more respect than they do now. the snideness that i see now and the comments and the behavior toward each other in congress seems to be such a change in demeanor, or perhaps it was just the times. certain. considering how contentious this

was, i was amazed. i've forgotten how well members could treat each other and respect each other during those hearings. thank you very much. you are absolutely right. in the american history books, and lot of bipartisanship, that is all of the legislation of the great society and all of nixon's legislative accomplishments. dealing,ing, wheeling, drinks on the town. it was less of a cutthroat culture. he watched the watergate hearings and you are absolutely right. you watch everybody behaved quite well and you look at people like howard baker, a republican being very tough on nixon. they are not taking a purely partisan view. these senators, when you watch watergate hearings, are concerned about objection of

trust as is rightly be should be -- justice as rightly they should be. a circus,d be more of more shrill, more partisan. goldwater turns on nixon. he says this is not what we are about, i am not backing my career and my reputation my reputation on this kind of -- my integrity on this kind of behavior. everybody sidles up to their party to such a degree that it is discussed in the american people and nothing gets done. host: who is the third gentleman sitting on the opposite sofa? guest: i would have to look at that.

looked and picked that picture because it is the king of jordan and henry kissinger. we would do that brightly yellow because one of the problems is that nixon did not do a lot of colorful photos. always very up tight, in the suit. but there with the king of jordan from the middle east, in muchom kippur war, he very backs israelite becomes a full bureau. -- israel and becomes a full

olk hero. it was kissinger's shovel diplomacy in the middle east that really paint the way to the camp david accord. a lot of things that were accomplished with ford and beginnings ineir the nixon years. >> the nixon tapes, doug brinkley and luke nichter >> retired marine lieutenant colonel, a senior analyst with the rand corporation will discuss the latest developments and the u.s. air campaign in iraq. in georgetown professor on trends in the job market. stephen, a reporter with the associated press, he talked about processing and tracking disability payments. plus, your calls and comments

and tweets. washington journal, live every morning at 7:00 eastern. break,e congress is on c-span primetime features topics and views. a debate on america's greatness. veterans health care. we visited the atlantic press club for the future of news and we take a history tour looking at the civil war. c-span primetime monday through friday. let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. join the c-span conversation like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> this week while congress is recess, watch american history primetime. american history tv will host a variety of topics on the early

american public, jewish history, world war ii, and sports history. let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. join the c-span conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> from the final day of the u.s.-africa summit, a discussion about improving education for women and girls. this is over half an hour. [applause] >> hello, everyone.

the time we are children that education is the key to a better future for us and for each successive generation. i'd certainly heard about in my family when i was the first person to graduate from college. mrs. obama spoke about it. a similar experience for her. here in the united states, we referred to it as the american dream. world,ravels around the i discover it is not just an american dream at all but a universal dream. millions of parents want their children, girls and boys, to learn more, do better, achieve greater things than they did. joseph's girls school at sierra loan. .- sierra leone the girls trying so hard and against incredible odds to get an education in northern

nigeria. these girls and their parents know intuitively. is one of theon smartest investments that the international community can make. education increases a girl's individual earning power which the majority she invest back into her family. girls who stay in school longer are six times less likely to be married with children. duringttendance adolescence is correlated with the later childbearing, lower rates of hiv, and fewer hours of domestic and labor market work, and greater gender equality. in addition, a child born to a mother who can't read is 50% more likely -- who can't read is 56 -- 50%can read is more likely to stay in school themselves. it is better for girls and

families and the community. it is absolutely critical to expanding women's participation and workforce and the key to the universal dream of empowering the next generation to be better than the last. i am so pleased to be here today with our distinguished panelists to talk about what we can do to ensure that the girls and africa get the education they deserve and that they need. let me briefly introduce our wonderful panelists. we are not in order here. dr. sarah, the regional director for east africa which is a citizen driven initiative operating in kenya and uganda and tanzania. to draw public attention to children's learning. the doctor will speak about completion of primary education and getting parents involved and supporting education. ha is aorable ies

m foring member of the foru african women education. working throughout africa to ensure education is tailored to address specific needs of girls. she will share some of her thoughts on the importance of girl completing secondary education. president of an organization to a dress poverty in africa through girls education. she will speak about empowering the next generation of women. finally, shelley eskew is vice president of corporate affairs of the intel corporation. the intel foundation is working to give girls and women more opportunities to stay in the global economy and she will speak about the importance of

empowering girls through technology. let me begin with my first question. i understand that you use an innovative approach to increase literacy among girls which is a challenge in many places. what barriers do you see that keep girls from pursuing and attaining primary education? what interventions do you think is most successful? lookingnk when you are at the barriers and progress we have made. we reach about one million children since we started in 2009. 90% of the children have five years of schooling. 10% who isis a missing. they are often found in hotspots and rural and remote districts. it is not country specific.

if you go to kenya and uganda, they are neighboring. has been talked about for so many people. attitude, religion, practices. to be listening to the evidence a little more. they have been there for about five years. when you look at the numbers and , the of gender parity -- and theybility are not any better or any worse. [indiscernible] school inefficiency is affecting our children. school years is

mostly seven years but some are taking seven years. -- 11 years. the success, let me talk about three of them. which all of us know, when a mother has primary education, you see that her daughters and children generally have higher learning outcomes. the evidence is there. more so for the mothers. the second piece of evidence which we needed to be looking at is leadership. where a school has a good, dynamic leader, over maybe 500 or 1000 children. introduce girls too many activities, weather and

sports -- whether in sports, they gain confidence. they are building on resilience. [indiscernible] and then the girls herself. all of us have roles. >> can you talk about the role of the family and what you can do to present families? especially when they are facing situations of limited resources, how do you deal with that problem and convinced them if they have a couple of children or choose between sending a boy or girl to school? how do you encourage them to send the girl and make the decision that it is worth the investment? >> when you see that 90% of the children and it is near gender parity, it looks like half of the battle is done. many parents believe in sending

their girls to school. the biggest thing that could lead that could destroy disbelief is if our girls have nothing to show for the years they spent in school. us who see evidence of the success of school, it has spread to the others. if we do that, i remember when i went to a village one-time, the daughters -- the mothers told us it was very important. you know, it is important to send girls to school. evidence of success. show that to educate your children. your girls and your boys. >> you are the evidence. understandring -- i you are working and 32 different

african countries to foster attitudes towards girls education. has workedzation with governments, community, civil society to make education a priority. could you talk about what you see that works best? what more can be done? specific examples of gender-based violence, vocational training and give us -- based on your experience what your views are. youet me start by giving some statistics. million kids out of school. 54% are girls. 22 million are out of school. therefore we have to do something. with cannot sit and wait. we have to work together. to give to these people the right of education.

working for gender equity and equality for all children. -- innovation.e reach the girls you want. [indiscernible] you touched about it. you have to go to both male and they have to make the decision. are we going to take the girl or the boy to school? you have to tell them and explain to them the benefits of educating girls. today, we have seen it. what we have found out is men

are supporting girls' education. [indiscernible] ones who are tracking the girls going to school. school attendance is looked out after the women's clubs. we have another innovation. it is empowering girls and boys. to stick out. in the school, the girls and the boys get together and identify their problems, analyze them, and together find solutions for them. what we have found out through activities, we have found out that now girls are empowered to speak out. they have self-confidence. they have the skills.

they have leadership skills. and they are fighting against cultural beliefs. they know they have the rights so they claim the rights. we have another innovation. i think the first lady from ghana just talked about it. bright, it makes a difference. [indiscernible] you see, you cannot just discriminate against boys either. they have to work together. foundation, we are scholars ine 1200

rwanda and in ethiopia, 800. you educate a girl [indiscernible] [laughter] we also have what we call the center of excellence. school, we transformed it into a gender equal school. they know how to treat boys and girls equally. math and science is much better. it is amazing how the school has an environment which is conducive to learning and no

gender violence at all which is important. have adolescent girls in countries where [indiscernible] give them the skills and bepetencies and that would such as mechanics, electricity, carpentry. they did very well. they go -- finish, we lobby the companies to hire devil when they finish. -- when they finish. a girl can do even better than a boy i would say. i am saying that because africa

2011, the population was one billion. 20% [indiscernible] 2050, 50% of the population will be youth. fits -- has to invest in its youth. if it wants to be a dynamic economic. [indiscernible] amazing. my father was one who said all of my girls have to go to school. girl'sre, let's work for education. [applause] >> thank you very much. ann, i would like to ask you a little bit about the approach

which i understand you call the virtuous cycle and i will like you to explain for a moment if you could. they have educated girls and help to tackle poverty working through systems, parents, teachers, and government officials. understand how drove words with the girls through development and education and beyond that and if you could give us some idea and explain. >> of course. areas and thatl is where poverty is deepest. and tos are in positions make decisions based on realities. understand and respect that decision-making.

the process is one of partnership with parents, inclusion of parents. of transition from primary to secondary school is where so many girls dropped out because of the cost of education. our partnership with parents means that they do not have the means, but they have an abundance of love. support theys that get at home, that encouragement, we are seeing 80% of candidates 108,000five countries, girls in higher education. parents are not withholding their girls from going to school. mentor and network. girls are going to school with problems. we have a network of trained professionals against five government schools. that is having a significant impact.

now, you mentioned traditional leaders. they are some of our most powerful advocates. one traditional leader said he years ago, he said i have understood speaking with girls [indiscernible] he is an advocate. traditional leaders working with us. and of course the government. our partnership and we work in government. and our partnership there and national level and african policy is very closely. strategy andta and at the policy table. it is really an inclusive program for girls. significantseen academic results.

when they leave secondary confrontedthey are by a lack of employment and often they will be in the position where they are to marry. they go to work where they are very [indiscernible] we support beyond secondary education depending on grace and aspirations into university and technical training colleges and business training. that is where you really see the investment in education starting to take high dividends. and the family as well themselves. but how do you make that dividend growth? how do you make that dividend growth for the nation? --t would've done is create that is the virtuous cycle. the leadership emerging awful women.

-- the leadership emerging awful women. there are networks across tanzania and mullally and zimbabwe. women.leadership among every one of those members is supporting between 2 and 3 children into school outside of their families and supporting within her family. this is really the power. they say we are united. and a commitment to change. often, poverty carries ofh it the marks embarrassment and shame. they transform that into pride and empathy. that is at the heart. that is after the heart of their activism. >> we have an incredibly

powerful of people here. , howcurious about organizations including engage in, spouses women empowerment process? it is extraordinarily powerful and i am deeply honored to be here. the partnership is a wide and abroad. partnerships is a foundation and ghana. we are working on a long-term program to support secondary and tertiary level education. the young women and girls in the program have to pass a critical of their experiences. indication. you an school, one girl was living with her family and one world. it was sold with the that she did not have time -- and it was

so noisy that she did not have the time to study. 7:00ecided to go to bed at p.m. and got up at 2:00 a.m. to study when everyone else was sleep and go to school. what she says is i want to be a pediatrician because i see my role as being children. i love children. we hear time and time again. the young women we support who have not had a background in education. their personal experience. my grandmother left school at 12. nobody was more committed to education than her. read a book was her constant answer to me. that commitment to education when you aretially suddenly have the opportunity.

becomes because of your education. -- we see women suffering. we want to tell the world about our communities. it is about them and what they want to share with the world. readyladies, they are so as you with you and mentioned, they have tremendous ideas to share. and really bring their voices forward is extraordinary. them.your voice and use those extraordinary platforms. >> thank you so much. i have a couple questions for you but i was struck by all of these networks of people that me itntioned, it strikes might be a good project for you all to sort of network these

people together. i am sure you are busy. there are so many groups of people we could get together. the internet is a powerful tool for education. intel is doing so much to address gender gap. i was curious about how you see technology go tools advancing literacy and economic -- opportunities for women and give us an idea of what you are doing in that field? >> thank you for the great idea. we were talking about that and adult marketplace. how do we network all of this together at make it easier for people to access. we have been very committed to education and ensuring women and girls have access to quality education. every three-pronged approach. first is raising awareness and ensuring access. the second is inspiring girls and women to not only be consumers of technology but

creators. we want girls and women to know they can create the next solution that will solve the problem their community is facing and want them to know they can play an active role. women often do not take that role in most parts of the world. the idea ofea, bringing people together in an ecosystem and connecting people suck to have a platform to communicate today network to support them. we find this idea of the community is critical even when we are using technology. arele need to know there people behind them. one young woman told us, i know there is an army of winning -- women ready to support me all over the world. that confidence comes from knowing that exists. what we found when we did a are leftthat women behind in terms of internet access. in our report, we did with your , wece and the world

identified how large this gap is. unfortunately, and sub-saharan africa, it is the largest gap we identified. these women and girls are left behind for variety of reasons that have been mentioned today. we found when they have access to the internet, to have access to education and information that can help the way health ,are, job creation, development and empowerment that comes for meeting others like you. we know that by closing the gap, we can make intermittent impact. we have been committed to a goal of reducing the gap in sub-saharan africa by 50% and the next five years. , tremendousrous partners working with us on that project. we are very excited about the possibilities. ,he possibilities of education

the possibilities of information and what they can do in the hands of young women all over africa. toare looking forward welcoming more partners and working with more governments. bring access and closing the gender gap. >> talk about the role of private/public partnership in your work. >> it has been shared today and we firmly believe it is only through partnership that we are going to have sustainable impact. we have worked with partners and government for many years and most of our education programs. we are reaching out to a larger ecosystem. many technology companies are interested in this work and other players and foundations, bringing all of the people together toward a goal is what we are trying to do to great this ecosystem of people who care about this gender issue and want to help educate girls and empower them. really be a voice and a leader in their local community.

>> great. i was wondering if you could talk a little bit -- i was struck by what mrs. obama was saying about the important role in men and boys and their efforts. it is something -- when i travel, sometimes i get an initial schedule and it will be a lot of meetings proposed or business with women and visits to women's centers and i will say -- wait a second, i think i need to talk to the men, too, and understand what they are doing. sometimes we spent a lot of time talking to ourselves. i was wondering if either of you had insight into the really critical role that men and boys themd and how we engage and how to best engage them. if you have thoughts on that? most ofthe family, traditional africa, men are the

ones who are doing the choice. therefore, your to talk to both men and women and explained to e of education and give examples of education. then, they will understand. there will always send the boy if they do not have enough women. in the school, if you do not bring them together to talk to each other, and life that will be separate. therefore, it is better to bring them together to make them understand the concept of learning to lead together. -- for where the teacher them to be gender aware.

theyow that in each child, have to tap into that potential and have girls and boys succeed. one of the things we need to do becausee our approach when we look at this and we think 10% in africa and the things keeping them out of school is not the cause they school, taught to go to it is cultural. you have to look at who has the power. you have to go out and talk to them. talking about issues. for a long time, we have focused on the victim. the decision-maker and where the power lies in getting them to be your partner in creating change. is a lot ofttitude

trust so that the discussion and you will bring the changes that sustain and girls actually [indiscernible] give.example i want to i will not tell you which country we did it but what we showing howvie girls were going through the operation. pictures, theyhe that we did god for not know. they were shocked. that it will be an advocate. just makes them think. >> i think the power of film is really important.

mediate the dialogue and takes away the tension. it is a story. every bite is connecting with a story. we had a film called "child within," about early pregnancy. that film has unlocked understanding and empathy and communities. my colleague and africa, who actually is one of the first girls supported by our foundation, she was telling me about mullally. men.as a meeting for wives?d, how about [indiscernible] there a bit of discussion going on. and soon, the wife came. and it -- and then the other

chiefs' wives came. sometimes it is about humor and opening it up. the power of the film and introducing stories to really understand. we have seen in our data coming extraordinaryawi, impact of education on child marriage. the program, 5% of the girls supported but, mothers in the same age group were the national rate is 26.8%. that intervention of education is preventing significant child marriages and another generation of being born into poverty. all would like to see why very much. ou all very much. >> we want to make an announcement. we are thrilled to announce a new alliance.

women in the well alliance. bring 600,000 young women online in nigeria and kenya in the next three years. and where going to do that by catalyzing an ecosystem that right now the alliance includes vision,orld pro, world u.n. women. i wanted to share that news with you but cuts we are open and welcoming of all partners who are interested. it is very critical we create local content, localized training with gender specific resources for women and try to great this network so they can support each other. [applause] >> i would like to thank all of you so much for being here and also the tremendous work you do every day for women and girls.

i met a woman many years ago in -- i cannot remember what country she was an. her name was christine and she tell me something that always stuck with me was that one woman can do anything but many women can do everything. that always resonated with me. when i see amazing women like all of you, i believe that and together we could do tremendous things. thank you for what you are doing. thank you all for being care. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] bill ayersprofessor debates dinesh d'souza. the topic is what is so great about america? >> you started out as a well, youary and --

started into bin laden mode. the u.s.o bomb capitol. you sound totally different today. you talked about teaching and being an educator and is so credited doubt and wonder. my question is, what happened to the old revolutionary? it is still alive or has he thrown in the towel? >> i feel i am still a revolutionary. if by revolutionary humane -- having a fully worked out program by which we can sort of imagine a different world than overthrow a government, no, not that. if you meet somebody willing to dive in and make sense and try to fight for more peace and justice and more balance and sustainability and be willing to live with that complexly amble forward, i see myself as someone who sees the need for a

fundamental change. i will give you one example. to me, the struggle against white supremacy which i invite everyone to join is a struggle that still goes on. it is not over. a struggle that still goes on and it takes different forms. it is not slavery or jim crow. but at the destruction of voting rights, masimo corporation -- mass incarceration of black men. that is what we should be fighting. >> their debate hosted by dartmouth college covers war, civil rights, and economics. you can watch a monday night. >> a pakistani general said operations to kill hundreds of militants and the north waziristan region. theongoing -- how government is handling the nearly one million people who have been displaced by the violence. this hosted by the atlantic

council. my colleagues at the center, i would like to welcome all of you to this very interesting session on the situation in north warziristan. welcome the part of our audience that is not in the same room, but in another room. we will be taking questions from them, too. also welcome to the c-span audience watching us at home or in the office or wherever they are watching from. thank you all for being here. this is normally supposed to be a quiet evening in washington in august, but that is one of those

yths, like a 30 minute commute everyone has. i'm delighted we are looking at this topic and delighted to experts.wo one is a defense analyst and also chairman of a group and pakistan that is related to security. doctor was teaching at a university and has a book. he is the chair of department of regional studies at the college of international security. more details on them are available on the material that you have. i don't want to take too much time going into those. iso want to say that this really on the record, but it is also made possible by a generous grant we received on the

carnegie corporation of new york for the u.s. pakistan program to focus on key issues that relate to pakistan and to the u.s.-pakistan relationship. we have been grateful to carnegie for this excellent row graham and the support -- program and their support. evokes allristan kinds of memories, particularly the last few years. this is the campaign that never came about. theed to a break region chief of staffs and the then army chief. this was a campaign that people expect it because it was something that the united states and its allies wanted very much for warziristan to undertake

even as they operated in other parts in the area. north warziristan was somehow spared a major operation hear it over the years, many deals were made and were broken, but the key ingredient in this was the about and --he how who are seeking sanctuary. this was a topic of tension. they became famous among other things for repeated drone attack us and the frequency of the attacks would be something that would be remarked upon regularly . months, it was quite clear that the pakistan and

taliban were not taking the offensive. there were attacks, including the one at the iraqi airport, .ublic opinion swung so, the pakistan military found an opportunity and launched this operation. that is what we will discuss here at not just operation, but inside means for the war of all of anniston and what would it mean for the region, particularly the relationship knowing forward? request the major, i'm using his old military rank, for about a greeting 10 minutes on the situation there.nd take it from

then we will open it up to questions and answers and take the discussion forward. >> thank you. one of the questions that was asked of me was will the army ever go? i honestly answered, yes, it would. at that point in time, we knew something and pakistan that people did not know otherwise. arecommanders on the ground strongly urging that the that developed must be maintained. and because

,f the fact that the fighters they decided to delay the operations. whoever, the pressure was from their own commanders. ultimately, by the time the chain of command to place, it was more or less decided that the operation would go in. in,ation was meant to go but into major phases. the first was airstrike. precisely where they that --ated in the fact

they expected to catch them from position airstrikes. ae moment they had provocation -- once airstrikes went in, they killed many in the first. the major political parties talked about cease-fire and talks. unfortunately, the ploy was only to delay. they needed to get out. they knew that they needed time,

[indiscernible] intention of the -- the negotiators were talking something else. ultimately, it is fair to say the pressure was if you don't go --, you don't get a chance to clear the area. see [indiscernible]

were not really fighters. they don't consider them fighters. if you look east, you see -- if -- it is not shown on the map, but where you see [indiscernible] range.n mountain it gives you an idea of how high it is. resort.hill so the army action when in here i won't go into details.

they came in from different directions. then then east and then weston then southwest. -- and then west and then southwest. there -- the point was to dominate. why? it not joking they tell you would pale in comparison. it was a free-for-all really. economies.out the

south when you see the mountain, .his is the area both of them had signed peace treaties with pakistan in 2003. they basically said the same. as soon as they were out of the area, they took large portions of the area. other things started coming up. there was some fighting thisally for control of area. i want to clear one

misperception. fighters.bout the the arab fighters. that kind of fighter is the name from pakistan and did not go back. wrong. .et's go back and the fighters came back each of them were given $14,000 and an ak-47 to join in the jihad. to takend it convenient the $14,000 in marrying their daughters off to these militants . .hey were vexed

these people are literally homeless. they have no place to go. they can't go back because they do not want their. there backs are to the wall. they had no other place to go. the are the ones of when place. took but basically most of the people -- you been killed had ared imagine the children

now in their 30's. zone, and just one case alone just to give you discovered they bombs. 1000. hadyou imagine that they these underground hospitals? the was the intention of army? what have you achieved? maybe 500 or 600 all. what they achieved is they now dominate that area. by dominating the area, they .eny militants

based on the ability to strike, but it's them -- they don't give them the opportunity to do so with the freedom they had. now the a situation fighting is taking place in the mountains. the ground operations are proceeding there. the expected they would dominate , which is a tragedy by itself. turned out to be 1.1 million of them who were registered. and other areas of pakistan. some are in camps.

unfortunately, there are logistics and we have to live with that. just before i end, i would like to say that they were successful have notnse they -- abandoned their posts. they help these people. on the other hand, that particular freedom they had is not there anymore. the good news is they should be

going back sometime in the middle of september. 80% of them should be that. [indiscernible] this is thating on fail in will not military operations. they will fail in [indiscernible] even though the army engineer these roads,ing wide-open roads to make back to medications less difficult.

something --rt is you take a person and what him across the road and it cap, you have -- put him in a can, you have disrupted. he is not bashing put a minute camp, you him in a have disrupted. have disruption which must be addressed. the rehabilitation is something that must be worked upon. must give them a means. give them reason to protect that means. thank you. >> thank you. let's move on.

forward. can take this what is the meaning? where does this put the war on terror? >> thank you, first. i appreciate all of the different events and publications produced by the atlantic council. thank you relating that effort. whose responsibility is that? operation of what are the implications of a what will itand

mean for the ordinary people and the terrorists for the implications? i would look at it skeptically. generalo add to the view in which i think it is absolutely right. this operation is not only a major step toward defeating terrorist in that region, but it is going on for all the that ite that we have is going in the right direction. it is delayed and it is the right and to do. i was in pakistan about two weeks ago.

i was told about that that it was in this operation that the pakistan military got hold of senior leaders and had permission to come out. happenededa leader -- to be a pakistani. . he has a masters degree. he is punjabi by ethnic act grant. background. i earnestly hope that with the interrogations going on that

there is an officer who is there. it is necessary in that case. however we have seen consistent failure. action, the police political support base is missing. go to utter failure. it is important to see the overall of the context and the different stations -- stages. focused this time.

they realize that the first step -- to ttp. he was the head of a group of militants. is to go i am making to north warziristan. the first two steps began in unison in a coordinated fashion. the them full credit for success. i think that there were some successes. an second stage was operation that was quite successful in terms of pushing -- some of the

i think we just cannot ignore that delay. mention that the a qaeda leaders, when both the for [indiscernible] have the exact answers. i would like to have the answers. at what stage did he get connected with al qaeda? how were they allowed to expand into mainstream pakistan? the operation.

there are different ethnic groups that lived there. you can make up the language and the future. -- don't have their own are there check post? was there any courting nation between military intelligence and local law enforcement? indirectly -- i think it would be unfair to say it was in any way intended.

ready to fly -- buy, but to say it was one man and not to delay the operation for four years is a reflection. this leads me to my second point. i am making the case for the lessons to be learned and not always to look forward, but look into the history. the recent history, we can't just ignore. vague.wers are very it brings me to the next point. it was reluctant with a heavy advice- what was the

given by the pakistan's people party? were they reluctant? now. they were begging, but making a consistent effort, lease don't. disconnect. what were the answers given to them? in fact, there was a clear effort to show that there were some bad intentions. exposed by, he was having some soft feelings of sympathy. maybe he was making a case to negotiate.

there was a different criteria to look at the issues. i can be long and some of these minor details about the military relationships and this transition from military to democratic. the larger point is there is a military disconnect. on other issues, there was an effort to try to shift the areassibility in tribal completely to the military. you. up to they didn't want to take responsibility in case something went wrong. that disconnect, that lack of communication is most certainly at the core of this issue. lack of coordination between leadership,litary

that leads to lack of cohesion, lack of planning, and such in -- it problem becomes obvious. if we had millions of dollars to go for specific strike's and go for deployment of military that is no small job, it would take millions of dollars and lots of dedication. noould say there were civilian private sector organization. they have completely failed to realize this. this brings me to almost the end of my initial plan. on theisconnect long-term impacts. in the short run, there are those of this operation that i think is very good. -- it must'veen

been planned months before. it must have some linkages. in the last two months and weeks, we haven't seen any of that. there was a bombing of the girls school last week, but no major attacking of centers. militants are on the run. that there is a lot of evidence they are really on the run. whatever structure is being -- theird infrastructure is being dismantled. one thing that is for sure is no -- it is not being provided

under the sanctions. -- whysly, they would don't you move? you can go and be the guests. that is to the best of my knowledge in honest assessment. that is not happening. that is a good sign. groupr, the high connie has not been delicately -- haqqani group has not been delicately targeted. there is skepticism about some policies. i think the new military leadership that is not working around one person, but around four or five who previously related to the chief of staff. they were the ones who are the

architects. i think they are very clearheaded and >> however, what concerns me the most is there is no comprehensive policy. the pakistani police officers have, and i say it with some responsibility, even the leading police officer in these provinces have not been given any briefings. they are not part of this overall operation. the consequences of this operation will be seen -- let's say they are incompetent. he should be on the same table when these things are discussed. i mention this to my political friends and military as well. they say we are very incompetent and corrupt. are we not having the same food as you are?

are we coming from mars yucca that i am not seeing. the real battle against pakistani terrorists and militants will be fought by the civilian law enforcement. it will not take decades for them to transform. they will have to be on board. links with the political party. this was producing these militants. that news item in the pakistani media. unless there is that component which means -- which needs political courage and political leadership as well. somehow it is also missing. the kind of energy that we were expecting to see for support of this whole operation is missing

some of the media, is running programs trying to go for these patriotic songs, etc.. for the best of my knowledge they are all paid by the pakistani i sbir. this is not happening from among the people. at the end of the day, that will define pakistan's larger, broader antiterrorism effort which would take five or 10 years to complete whether we are going in that direction or not. >> i think both of you raised some very interesting points. the may be some statements i may want to challenge in terms of the assertions that have been made. let me, if i may, ask both of you a question. what mr. identified

as the center of this operation. it was also the headquarters of seventh division of the pakistan army all these years. they were one kilometer outside of the city. havingit that despite something approximating 42,000 thats in north waziristan these operations could take place from bases with training being provided, with equipment being brought in, and the photographs show some very heavy equipment, how is it possible that this was ignored or that this happened? was a because the military was confined to barracks? or was it simply because there was no national strategy? that is my first question. i think what you ask is relevant. the seventh to --

division has been in the forefront of this operation. it is the one which is -- for the last 10 years or so it has been in the field. >> its traditional operation kashmir. shmere -- >> the conscious decision. i agree when he says there is criminal neglect. the commanders on the ground who are actually in knowledge of the situation tell you that the time is now to keep the momentum going. i want to disagree with u hassan on the strength of the

army chief. the last time, there was collective responsibility, -- was ruling pakistan. generalscoterie of that were hawkish. ultimately, they kept on driving .im in bad faith under the site, he came to a decision to the famous 25th march thing. i was there as a helicopter pilot in eastern command. i know firsthand what was happening. there was some bad faith involved. the army chief was finally overruled. i was only when all the chips are down. as long as he as you army chief, he is what he is.

his word is law. to expect that the collective leadership of the dg, all will convince the army chief, otherwise, i don't think that is possible in the pakistan army, at least what i know of them. >> in northwest pakistan bordering afghanistan. it has been a safe haven for several military groups. this is an hour and a half. this is cementing terrorism within pakistan. that terrorism within pakistan can also come with an insurgency. >> no army in the world can do counterterrorism.

>> i agree with [indiscernible] >> i would like to welcome the audience to watching us at home or in the office. thank you all for being here.

>> there is some changing dynamic. i would like to say, i don't --w really who actually whether there was some military involvement. people think like that. they say the next army chief --

i'm not really sure whether the president and army chief. this is not the view among some experts in pakistan.

quit to societal times toward see, some radicalization. there is a reflection of those elements within the pakistani armed forces as well. it is natural. does having an impact on command-and-control system. pakistans still -- army's cohesion can be the most important factor for pakistan survival. am seeing some changes. just to complete the point of national security, also, is that the political leadership are still not really clear.

i think at the heart of the and also the counterinsurgency, which the army never liked. -- the larger point is, there is a lack of court nation between different elements of safe power. there are not any clear signs that there is a recognition and realization of this issue. >> thank you. we won't go into some of the fine points of exactly how decisions are made, but the reality is that the proximate causes of this particular operation appeared to be the attack in karachi, which change

public opinion. when you talk to commanding officers in the field, even when they lose one person it is a huge loss. the pressure was mounting from within the military. i think any smart army chief as to listen to the troops. when he meets his formation corpsders and then the commanders. general musharraf who was he army chief and president concurrently never once visited fatah after having sent troops to fight there. there's no evidence of him having traveled to meet the troops in the field. the civilian leadership does not do that either. that is a mind-boggling thing

for an observer like me. let me open it up to the audience. let me go to the back first or if you would, please come identify yourself. also want to let everybody know, i will take down the names and keep reminding me of interest. we will put a whole set on a website so it will be available to all of you for information. please identify yourself and ask your question. >> good morning everybody. i am at the embassy of pakistan. i have a short comment and then a question. the short comment, i'm giving with conviction because i have been a part of it myself.

when we think about the four years lost, what went in those four years needs to be identified from the point of view of what was the army is in at those times. may,s starting off from october, meanwhile, in between, almost all of the seven agencies were busy. strikes that were regularly being taken on the actions. it is important to note that what was going on in addition to the floods and the turn show reigns and the earthquake that took place. all of them, the pakistan army was involved.

d. in what is going to happen, what is going to be the effect between the relations in the whole region and what are we seeing? there's not going to be two

months or a shorter time in which everything will get settled. it will take some time for the area to get settled in for the army to remain deployed and the it can draw down a little. they can only take those numbers for that much more time. >> would like to answer about the future prospects echo >> i will acknowledge that he is very right. considered ae valid critique. they were successes because the lack of infrastructure development and lack of other institutions capacity. whenever there's a flood or a crisis. we now know the one of the leading politicians was marching toward islamabad. they asked army to secure islamabad. they had responsibilities and

the army was stretched thin. that is a valid point. i concede that. been 100% --ave for that. view will be, my brief on that. there are now three things that are happening. it is no more what is happening in that region -- it is no more dependent on u.s./pakistan relations. the path of some resolution and there is an improvement in relations. the engagement to train pakistani and u.s. security officials has really improved. pakistan isbetween as important. these are three different tracks. they are not directly linked. the next challenge of the next issue or initiative will not only be defined by pakistan/u.s.

relations. it will be dependent upon pakistan/india relations. incursions into pakistan. is not a clear understanding and coordination and cooperation between pakistan and afghanistan. i think is the best thing that -- iure if did -- that think that relationship is also -- or a combination of those three tracks and relationships will define the future of the area.

>> about four months ago, the was being of ttp agents.ied by the he was caught on the way to kabul by the u.s. special forces . itram.taken to buy fro conspired that iran had been constantly supplying the ttp.

what more evidence can there be that the number two man is caught soon after that. he was killed by a drone strike soon afterwards. other than that, he had been living openly in the -- province. if he ever shows up in this area, he would not last a day. kinase -- the hakkanis, if you were to look at them, they are facially and structurally totally different from all the others. you can make out a hakkani straightaway. them hiding among them would be very realistic. lately, there's evidence from what is happening on the ground that these people who went across the border, they are in

camps literally close to the border without any interdiction. there is atime that cross-border attack, they don't have the artillery. where is the artillery coming from? kinase alsohe high have no place to hide. they are most of them across the border. i don't think the iran national army is taking them on. they may be helping them, but as far as the ttp is concerned, i am under no illusion that they -- i want toped by go back to something that was said. there's another factor. when you have a counterinsurgency, you require a lot of helicopter support.

i was a helicopter pilot myself. they are in the last stages of their engine life. it is difficult to continue without refurbishing them. now that the m i-17's have been refurbished and we have room us from the uae and several helicopters of command, also the ammunition depletion was at a critical state about two years ago. , think a number of factors -- to go back to what you said about the collective decision-making, if you had heard what the corps commanders, he would've been out for years ago. they wanted him out. canny who general said no, we must let democracy

succeed. i am no great support of general canny. he kept his commanders in line. he did not allow that to happen. >> the relief part is of course something that we must work on. the real part is the application. if you take a person and put them across the road in a cap. he is disrupted. he is not happy. we take him 500 miles away, he is happy. if you want to bring them back and you have a house totally cut and without electricity, you

which must ben addressed. the habitation something must be worked upon. my theory is that the economic we must give them a means of livelihood. must give them reason to protect that means of livelihood. thank you.

>> >> your thing about the war, i say this, today, when i look at been forns and i have the last three years, i see the best lot of officers. ed, three of them haven't had combat experience. after that retirement in october, there will not be a single three-star general in the pakistan army who has not had combat experience of some kind. that is very important. fellowa man has seen his

soldiers lying dead, he cannot see the consequences of leaving them into battle. educated. sharper he is, the experience, he is better trained. he is committed to democracy.

>> actually, for the last problem with the plan, we knew it for months before the operation was launched that the military was coming. i look for the news item. when was the first time we heard that people had started moving out of north waziristan. thest four months before operation began. not that it was intended, because the militants had now developed the roots in mainstream areas where they can launch movements. they knew there was some deployment or some movement happening close to the other areas. and they started moving out.

many of the militants moved out. it is comparable to when someone in washington dc says the , then it hadave negative complications and was very difficult to decide on that count. i'm pretty sure that as a result, the counterterrorism plan for the whole of pakistan should be linked or related to this operation. that is not visible. >> that would include karachi, area. and the whole >> indeed, the capital area. the fact that they called an army, which i have an issue with. so long as civilians will on a military to discipline jobs, the military will keep on thinking that they can someday come up and clean it. whenever -- whenever they have tried, they have made a mess of pakistan.

civilians have to start investing and civilian institutions. military should not of been called into islamabad. i say this with all humility, but something which i will also check, but because it is an important point, about what he mentioned about the future of group. to the best of my knowledge, it comes from graduates of the hakkani group. all the other groups look for a similar. that is 1.i will also check. not to the best of my knowledge. -- that is one thing that i will also check. not to the best of my knowledge. >> i really appreciate -- i feel like we have learned a lot about the who and what has been going on. i wanted to get at the underlying why.

in your opinion, to the militants have any legitimate reason -- grievances with the government? and if so what are they? what has made it in their minds that it is their will to fight instead of copper a? why do they go down this path? quarks these are backward areas, very underdeveloped. nobody ever bothers to push industry services into this area. just to give you an idea, and i want to give this as a statistic. i have 15,000 people working for me in my private security company. 600 people from south and north waziristan. withnever had a problem them. some of them have been with the 15 years.

incomee people have an that they can send back to their families, their ok. if you do not have income or a means of livelihood, if you're just going to be a gun for hire, you could be a gun for anybody, whether it is a smuggler or what have you. you're just a gun for hire. that is what they do. they live off the road. anybody that stops on the road, the ticket tax from him. you have got to give them a means of livelihood. as a legitimate grievance. number two is the sense of justice. they have their tribal justice. they have their own sense of justice. a classic case where you have local justice prevailing and they were quite happy about it and then suddenly you had a jurisdiction of the supreme court and everybody came in with the constitution.

then there was a high court and a supreme court. they had a legitimate grievance. you have to bring it down. the most important point, which i fought for this government, also. the basic state holder has no say in the government. we have a feudal system. the feudal system persists. the less you bring democracy down to the lower levels, you're going to have someone decides that they will have a school rather than have the local board decide. here's the money and how i am just going to use it. what is the justice system at the local level? that is a legitimate agreement -- grievance and i agree with that. baseer time, the economic of these groups has changed.

many of them are now criminal activities. they are in the drug trade and the smuggling business. they are basically imposing their own taxes in their areas. that is now mixed with the deprivation which fatah as an entity has suffered. let's move to the front now and then i will go around to the back again. please. >> thank you so much. i'm a former world bank official. -- failed idp's and relief. my question is more on the timing of return. second, if you could comment on your recent book, the most

difficult question you had to handle and if you could comment on that. since you are from the world bank. one of the problems which is being faced today is to deliver .oney to the idp's as you know, the world bank works on the fact that in pakistan only 15% of the people have access to banking. the bankingof system. the whole of pakistan. idp's are 100% of the banking system. they are trying to get money the point is, you're bringing technology in and bringing a lot of effort into this thing. theeast, i can say this, government is trying.

it is not for lack of effort. i think the effort can be more has been, as he saying. much more effort is required. basically, you have got to give -- the tribal society is broken up mostly. you have to give them that amount of decision-making process. it should be for their own communities. that is very important. the local communities must decide what is good for them, not what someone sitting in islamabad decides. without knowing anything about the typography or the demography. you can shed light on another conundrum that arises in this process. these figures that are being bandied about, the number of idp is. how is it that the population of 400,000 in