>> good morning. it is not the calendar or the seasons that i sent it in terms of time. day looming. it is not the start of arkansas football. 15 years ago, i would be standing in front of a group of students teaching them english. there are a couple of trends that impact of the classroom then that are relevant to our discussion now as well. i noticed students come into the classroom are part of what was later dubbed the browning of america.

they had beautiful skin. i noticed another trend. this is much more disturbing. the students were not prepared for what i was attempting to teach them. they had come to the classroom less and less prepared. there were these moments in the classroom they would look at me and i would think the same thing they were. part of me as a christian, i felt the lord was impressing on me. these are your children. if they are going to love me with their mind, it is your responsibility make sure that they are successful. that is the spirit and the heart of what raising the standards is about. that is the initiative we're here to talk about.

we believe it is raising the standards as one of a initiative that can help not just those students but those of the coming today and tomorrow. if we fast-forward 15 years, a collective minority will be larger than the white population in classrooms today. this is the first time in u.s. history. we have seen some progress among hispanic students in terms of high school graduation. in terms of college going. the second half of that story isn't so terrific. they're not completing college at the same rate. it is 50% lower than their white counterparts. we believe that today is a day of action. we're are here to announce an

initiative that will. our national hispanic education sunday. a every sunday in september we lift up education and pulpits across the country. some of the pastors represented here today will be tearing down these false walls of separated faith and education for too long. raising new rigorous standards in our homes and schools and say no longer will we dumb down standards and socially promote students of any background. we will hold all students accountable. pastors and principles should meet. parents and professors should meet. we no longer have a false dichotomy that keep us apart. we believe that in addition to that we have started a faith and

education website. we are going to send hispanic parents to get resources to assist their children and assist them to be more successful. these are all part of raising the standards initiatives. the next person to the podium embodies what happens when we expect more. we hear about an achievement gap for hispanic and other minority students. we don't think that is accurate. we think it is an opportunity gap. as someone who works for the nhs clc, her story and her confidence as a young woman success story will be inspiring. [applause]

>> good morning. as a daughter of first-generation generation immigrants, my education was a high priority. their understanding of the language and the system was limited. they prayed for and dream for the same things for me that my schoolmates has one of their children. a good education, strong faith, solid family values and a future of opportunity in this great nation they called home. we lived in dallas where ethnic diversity was the norm that high educational standards in neighborhood schools were not. i was one of the few to apply and get accepted to a magnet high school. it expected us to graduate not just from high school from college as well. my friends and extended family

at the high school in the neighborhood were not so fortunate. they were not held to rigorous academic standards and were not prepared for college-level work. thanks to the high expectations of my parents and teachers, i was motivated and prepared to earn a bachelors degree and then a masters degree. today, i work here on national education initiatives. next year, i will enter the program. i am living proof that high educational expectations and family support empower students from the most this vintage neighborhoods to not just graduate, but to impact the next generation. as the fastest-growing segment in schools, we must seize the opportunity set high goals. they are a national resource and national treasure with the potential to lead americans to

discovery and creativity. hispanic students and the nhclc welcome the support of national leaders committing to raise her in the standards for public education. we can ensure that hispanic families are encouraged to pursue the american dream of freedom, opportunity, and a better life for their children. thank you. [applause] >> she inspires me with that every time. our featured speaker today we are blessed to have. he has a record for educational reform and supporting my nordic students as the former governor of arkansas. this is a man who also has a background in the church and understands the intersection of

faith and education. he understands this intersection between common sense and conservatism from our perspective. he is one of the leading voices for conservatives and christians. please help me welcome governor mike huckabee. [applause] thank you. so you're looking at the scene and saying what is wrong with this picture. you have two hispanic leaders and an obvious white guy in the middle. i care because america is a better country when all of its children are well-educated. when every student in this country has equal access to an excellent education and there is no such thing as a student who is required or somehow destined to go to an underperforming school. that should not be tolerated. it does not matter if ace to do

is black, white, brown. it matters not. there is no such thing as a disposable child. every student in this country is an integral part of making us everything we can be. the reason i stand here today is raising academic standards is not simply the role of the school and it is certainly not the role of the government. students are not dry-cleaning. parents can drop them off of the morning and pick them up in the afternoon spot free. what we have to do is remind parents that it is a biblical mandate for the parents to raise the children. they need to accept the responsibility for the outcome of their students.

it goes back to the proverbs. train up a child in the way that he should go and he will not depart from it. it is as fundamental as life itself. it it was never acceptable for us to say we will give the responsibility of the education to the government and hope for the best. it will not end well. it does not matter who a person may be. it is the leadership of 40,000 hispanic churches across the country who decided that on education sunday they are going to use the power of their pulpits talking to millions of their constituents and remind them of their pivotal responsibility to take charge of the educational opportunities for their children. this is wonderful opportunity for america. if we turn this over to congress, their approval rating is 9%.

we want to turn it over to the government. we don't see the government top really doing a great deal. it would be against our own biblical convictions to ever turn over to caesar that which is god's. part of the challenge to the pastors is that they will remind the parents that it is your responsibility to make sure that they are getting the best education they are able to receive. if that means they can't get into the school they are assigned to, they need to push for school choice. or they choose to homeschool or whatever decision is best for the student. education decisions ought to be

about what is best for the student and not best for the government or the tax base or the people who are running the schools. i had a department of education director that was a real partner in reform. we work hard in our own state. one of the things we used to say it was there are two kinds of people, school people and their arcade people. school people are about the institution. that is not why we are there. it is about the children. we need to be kid people and focused on how the students are being prepared for life. i just want to mention that if we even thought tv time for parents to challenge your students and challenge yourself. we could not be as effective as to see these pastors go into 40,000 churches. they will reach more people that sunday than on any television show we could buy time on.

there would be more people sitting in those pews. imagine what happens when they heed that message. that is why i salute the leaders who will be joining together on that momentous day. i really believe that from my time when i was chairman of the education commission, the one organization that brings together all of the major players in state policy. a study discovered that the most important predictors of academic achievement outcome is every student would be exposed to a

broad and challenging curriculum. we cannot accept anything less than a very widespread curricula that touches all of the talents of every student and one that challenges them to be their very best. refuses to accept anything less than high standards for excellence. we are delighted to be here. i am thrilled to be part of the event. i believe we will entertain some questions. [applause] >> thank you, governor. we have times for a few questions. >> hi. i want to differentiate between what is new and what you have done before.

>> there are a couple of new initiatives. this idea that we are asking churches to take a love offering for every child that will be baptized or christened and deliver to them a college scholarship. this can be set up for $25. it doesn't have to be something huge. every child to be present with a bible and a college scholarship. we believe that this parallel between faith and education is widening. it should be an intersection. another quick one would be the report card prayer initiative. we are asking parents to make copies of their report cards and turn them in the offering goes around. we believe those are offerings. we want the congregation to pray over them and children see this

intersection of faith and study. we will have educational liaisons that help churches and parents improve the educational success of their students. they can be contacted. it is a strategic move on our part. those are a couple of new initiatives. the faith and education education -- website is new. we are emphasizing that we are not pushing public education away any longer. we are supporting it. this is the first time in the history of evangelicalism that we are not embracing secularism if it exists, 95% of our students are educated in public schools. this is our system.

we want to embrace public education and let them know that we are here to support you. how can we help? can pastors offer their churches for afterschool programs? thank you for the question. thank you. >> i am caitlin from politico. i know governor huckabee is in support of the common core. i am wondering if you're still behind the common core? how do you raise standards in schools? >> raising the standards is about having standards like the

common core standards state to state. we know the implications of a student in chicago being raised in a home and then going to a school where the standards are different or lower than they would be elsewhere. we believe that while there is a lot of politicization of common core, go to the standards. have you read the standards? don't read the political things. go to the standards themselves. how can knowing how to round numbers off or understanding polynomials, how can it be political? that is a standard that every third-grade student should know. we believe they are redeemable. we think that is the core of what it is all about. we believe that as a state led initiative. that is why states like

connecticut are represented here today. states will join this. i want you to graduate from my english class, i am not going to change the standards for any other motive because i care about you. i'm not going to speak for the governor, these are redeemable and he stands behind high standards. >> i salute the efforts in the college scholarships in the churches for every baptism and christening. i don't like the idea turning in the report cards. i am thinking back to my own student days. i want to address the common core question. i think it has become toxic and radioactive. it is a controversial topic on both the left and right.

you have equal disregard or repulsion from people on the left and right when it comes to common core. i don't want to fight over a program. i want to fight for students. the fight is not about what it is called. it is making sure that we elevate to the highest level challenging academic standards for students. if we are going to divide ourselves over common core, let's stop that. let's not stop the fight whether we you are on the right or left for saying we want our students to achieve to the highest level they're capable of. they can't do that if we dumb down the schools. i don't know any conservative who wants to dumb down america schools. if a student moves, the

expectations of what they are going to experience academically in one state is comparable to the other. it is no different than when we play basketball. if you are playing in california and then play a team in kentucky, a kentucky team will probably beat you. you want to make sure the goal is still 10 feet off the floor and the ball is inflated to the same level and the dimensions of the court of the same. let's say in california lower the goal down to six feet and they make sure everybody can slamdunk the ball, have they created a better team? they have artificially lowered standards to make it appear they are successful. i want those kids to be able to

succeed in any state. they won't be so far had their board or so far behind that they give up and quit because they can't catch up. that is what i will fight for. i'm not going to fight over a program that has so many sticky notes put all over it about things or never a part of common core which is a very simple thing you. the controversy is over data collection and curriculum and specifics. stop the fight. let's not make this something we are going to shed blood for no particular value to the students. the students first. >> we have time for one more question. make it good. >> i am jeffrey scott with the christian post.

are there plans in the initiative to ramp up scholarships for hispanic students who are already in school but they might be dropping out because they can afford tuition? are there any plans to ramp up scholarships in that way? >> we continue to work with our academic partners to make scholarships available. if that is part of it. that is only one piece. our hope is that these educational liaisons will help fill in some of those gaps as well. financial difficulties are important part of the entire holistic approach to education. most research indicates there are other factors bring students down and make them drop out. remediation is not the least. we know it helps prepare those

students for college life and the rigors of college education. i can't tell you how many students i knew personally that felt they are taking these classes and paying for them but i get no credit. before long they become a statistic. ending remediation and america is a huge goal. thank you all. we appreciate your time and being with us. we will follow-up with many of you as this initiative is just taking off. thank you so much. thank you. [applause]. >> "the washington journal" continues.

host: paul butler. law professor, former prosecutor, as somebody who has been arrested, what is your take on ferguson? guest: i'm tired of this happening over and over again. it is not just ferguson. it is staten island. it is that 51-year-old grandmother who was beaten by the cops. hit her 10 times. all of these unarmed african-americans being brutalized by police. i think it is important to have a conversation about race and to put it in a larger context, in which african lives just don't seem to be valued. host: that is larger context? guest: it is not just criminal justice. it is civil justice. it is not just african-americans. it is people of color. it is important to talk about race. white americans who are disenfranchised. the lgbt community has issues with the justice system. but it is important to realize that african-americans -- it is

the classic american dilemma. there was a lot of hope when barack obama was elected. i don't think anyone thought that it would reverse a legacy of 400 years of slavery and segregation, but there was the thought, the expectation that we would move forward on racial justice. looking at ferguson, looking at civil rights protesters being gassed in the streets like it is the 1960's, it doesn't seem like we have come that far. host: armstrong williams, what is your take on ferguson? guest: good morning. anis so unfortunate to see innocent individual shot six times. the law enforcement have phasers -- tasers. they have batons. they have so many other options. if you remember the supreme court rulings, even their own guidelines, the last thing you want to do is shoot an individual. , theerstand the outrage family.

in our system of law, innocent until proven guilty. on a deeper level, i think we as americans must get to a point where we are outraged at all lives that are lost in such a tragic way, whether it is in chicago, the kind of crime and feelings that go on there every weekend, whether it was what happened in new york. because i don't -- i think it is less about race and more about law enforcement. i think it is about the training of law enforcement. we've had an opportunity to talk to police officers. they will tell you in their training sessions, when they're showing images of what criminals are and who commits the crimes, most of the images are of young black men. that is unfortunate. if you live in a place like in missouri or new york, where it is a high concentration of andle who look the same they commit the same crime over and over again, i don't care what your training is with law

enforcement or the rulings are of the supreme court, you begin to believe that is a picture of crime. somehow or another, we have to get back, is ashley with young men -- take chicago as an example. why do these young people killed? they believe that the gun gives them power. if someone disrespects them, the piece of power they have is to take someone's life. fathers are not in the home. it is more than law enforcement. it goes back to the communities. the other issue is, well, we have to have a conversation about the value of life, personal responsibility, and accountability. we need to get away from this thing about race. it is less about race and it is about human beings. i would be just as outraged if the kid was latino, if the kid was white, if it did work day. -- if the kid were gay. i will give you this stat alone for the last year. 100 black men have been killed by law enforcement at the sirs.

5000 alone have been killed by black on black crimes. if you want to militarize someplace, it should not be a place like missouri. it should be chicago. to me, there is something -- it goes back to training and law enforcement. we have to value all lives, regardless of their race. >host: eleanor clift, ferguson. guest: if you talk about this in the context of all the other problems we have to solve, it gets overwhelming. i agree we have to tackle many of the issues that armstrong just raised. but if we take it back to ferguson, we do have a case of a parent excessive force -- of apparent excessive force, even in this young man stole some conveniencerom a store, he did not deserve to have six shots fired into him. now we go through the wheels of justice. we have a president who has announced for the first time that our criminal justice system is not fair. i think you can look at the

people condemned, sometimes wrongly, to death, look at the numbers in prisons, and you can tell there is something wrong. there are some social logical issues at play here as well. but the criminal justice system does not operate in a fair way. i think the president did the right thing by having his attorney general go to ferguson. the appearance of eric holder did have a calming effect. i think there are many more trouble spots ahead. we don't know if the grand jury will return an indictment. we don't know if it will result in charges. you don't know if or how this officer will be punished. we don't know all the facts. i think there are many flashpoints ahead. i think the conversation certainly, as you are having on the show, is out there. it demonstrates a pretty big racial divide in this country still. we may have a black president, a black attorney general, but we have a lot of white, entrenched power, and we have a country that is changing rapidly.

a lot of people feel uneasy about that. the president's election, rather than assuaging those feelings, has brought them out to the open. now we can deal with them. i commend you for having the show. a longtimeeen washington observer. how do you think race relations have changed in this city and throughout your lifetime? ew,st: i think there is a n professional class of african americans, certainly in washington, that was probably always there, but is very much more visible in the last years since the president has been in office. i applaud that. i lived in northwest washington, which is still dominantly white, but i have several black neighbors. in my own personal family, we have some interracial marriage. i am very comfortable with it. i applaud it. i recognize that there are some people who feel threatened. host: paul butler, what is your

personal racial situation? guest: i live in the middle class, integrated neighborhood. i've watched washington and i've lived here for the last 20 years. in some ways, it is like many cities. many of the poor people, who are disproportionately african-american, get moved out, and middle-class people, often young, white people, move into these neighborhoods. they walk their dogs in the street. it is nice to see the neighborhoods, quote-unquote, "improving," but you wonder why that has to always be at the expense of poor people and african-americans. you go to these yuppie restaurants and there are very few african-american waiters. we are not benefiting from the progress -- the supposedly less that we are making in terms of race in this country. african-americans are still left out. when we look at other groups that have been subordinated,

italian, irish come a jew -- all eventuallyy move up. african-americans don't seem to have the same access to the american dream. i find that troubling. host: armstrong williams. guest: i'm an employer. i own a television station. when you are an employer and you employ hundreds of people and you have been an employer for the last 28 years, you see all kinds of people that come through your place of employment. and what matters is confidence -- competence. whether you show up on time, whether you work late, and what you produce. i have not experienced racism. i say this often. people think i'm crazy. we grew up on a farm, where we were isolated, bred in an incubator. my parents did not pass on the bitterness or the segregation they experienced. they did not pass that onto us.

we did not drink from that trough. my parents gave us a clean slate. they said you write your own narrative. we had a mother and father in the household. we learned as a fling, sacrifice, respect for law enforcement. -- we learned discipline, sacrifice, respect for law enforcement. my father told us, if you are stopped by law enforcement, that is a person of authority with a you are say, yes, right. no back talk. that has always worked for me. i've never had anything -- it is all about my attitude. whether they are right or wrong, it doesn't matter. my father taught me this lesson. when you go through life and you get an education and you're able to build wealth, it becomes less about race and more about class. i think we all can agree with this. if that -- it does have an impact when 70% of the population is -- when 70% of the population have

no fathers in the house will. i see employees who come from single-parent households versus two parents. then we -- the men react different to authority. we take a lot of these kids and mentor. they don't believe they can be successful. all you have to do is get an education. sometimes the best things that happen in life, you can't explain. they believe in this narrative of what black is, criminals, drug users, uneducated, imprisoned. the women and children i know are not that way. i see so many young blacks all the time. they are not successful because they are black. they are successful because their dna is self-worth, self-esteem, and they don't buy into this america is racist. guest: but that doesn't matter. trayvon martin was on his way to his dad's house. the young man killed by police in new york -- st. louis, he was supposed to start school this week. the problem is not about fixing young black men.

it is about fixing the system. it is about fixing the police, the criminal justice system. i totally agree with you, eleanor. it is unfair. we need to look at these structures. when you are saying you get stopped by the police, it doesn't sound like you've never been the victim of discrimination. it sounds like you have an attitude where you want to ignore that, but it sounds like -- the police know you are black, employers know you are black. there was a study that said if you're a black man who has a college degree, you don't have the same chances as a white man who has a criminal record. if employers look at your resume and see you have a, quote-u nquote, "black name," you don['t don't getet -- you the same callbacks that you do if you have a white name. guest: it's about your way of thinking. everyone knows that story.

there are always exceptions. yes, there are people who have racism in their heart, but that is not the whole story. we should also give these kids the other story. when police officers stop me, i never think about race. your story is just part of the story. you have to make these kids believe there is opportunity. guest: older people who came out of the civil rights era do think you submit and you respect authority. younger people are not willing to do that, whether they are white or black. we still have that generational divide in ferguson. go to calls. to we divided our phone lines by age. we have a roundtable, paul butler, armstrong williams, eleanor clift. we will put the numbers on the screen so you can dial in at the number most appropriate to you.

under 30, 31 to 49, over 50. have you seen a difference in how white people view race when it comes to different generations? guest: i do think young people are colorblind, which was the goal of martin luther king, jr. difference.ee any they are intermarrying. i think they have gotten over it. i have always been open-minded. i grew up in new york city. my parents were immigrants at a delicatessen store. when my brought -- when i brought a friend home, my father would ask what is the last name. carol murphy -- you knew by the last name whether they were polish, italian, irish. that was important to my father, who actually was a terrible bigot in his own house.

he was wonderful in the store to everyone, but, boy, that always made me the champion of the underdog. that's where i got my values from. plus, i had a brother who was 16 years old or who was a new deal liberal. and he made sure that i grew up right. and then as a young woman i moved to atlanta working for "newsweek." that was the first time i really saw an integrated society. atlanta was a city too busy to hate. they were working on integration. they were surrounded by five dominantly black colleges. there i met many black people who were far more educated than me, which was eye-opening in that era. that is kind of how i came of age on this issue. host: paul butler, very quickly, is your attitude toward race different from your parents? guest: i think i'm more optimistic than my parents. they grew up in chicago, the city that martin luther king said was the most segregated that he had ever seen. i had great opportunities to go

to a nice just with high school tnd then -- to a nice jesui high school and then onto some great colleges and law schools. i was exposed to some of the young people eleanor described, people who were more open-minded about race. i think i'm less cynical than they are. guest: my parents were wonderful. they experienced much racism and discrimination, but they also said along the way when they would make assumptions and judgments about people, they found that these people became their greatest allies and friends in life. they always told us not to judge someone based on their color of their skin, but their character and whether the values were similar. it is one of the best gifts my parents have given me. host: let me apologize to call her -- to callers. we planned on talking for just about five minutes, but then we got into their personal stories and youth -- i thought you might find that interesting as well. we are going right to calls.

we will spend the next hour and a half taking your calls for our roundtable, race in america. st. louis, missouri, thanks for holding on. you are on "the washington journal." caller: thank you for taking my call. i find your guests very interesting. i am from st. louis. with theen out there demonstrators nightly. my background is an activist with police crimes and police brutality decades -- cases for decades. i can give you several names in history. i know folks there are familiar .ith fannie lou as she said some years ago, "i'm sick and tired of being sick and tired" of these police crimes against our youth. ,hat has happened in ferguson

it is clearly a revolt and rebellion of young folks who are not willing to take it anymore. they don't want anymore trayvon martin verdicts or rodney king verdict. what happened in ferguson, the people are hurt, really hurt. interesting what your guests have said. i know the time is always limited. what is getting the young people going forward, getting the young people involved in politics,aking, in involved in what controls their community -- it is very interesting as an eyewitness. i'm seeing it unfold and unveil. i think it is very despicable to be putting it in the light that

the officer is the victim. host: could i ask you -- could i give -- could you give us how old you are? guest: i am 70 years old. host: and you've been out of ferguson several times? guest: yes. host: when did you start to become an activist in issues like this. -- like this? 19 79. -- 1979. not making in the 1990's. -- rodney king in the 1990's. folks who never made the news. time and time again, young black men are killed by the police and nothing is done. that devalues black life. young people are rebelling against the situation they find. oousy education, no jobs, and n health care. so, they are sick and tired of

being sick and tired. host: thank you, ma'am. armstrong williams, quick, short answer for xenobia? guest: the ferguson police have new througha -- through a hiring process. they have fired the police. they feel they have a prosecutor who is out of control, who has always shown bias toward the police department, against these young men. what has happened with this young man who was shot like an everythinggalvanized they have been feeling for so long. obviously, people are upset. we have to change this. we cannot take it anymore. i can sympathize, absolutely. burbank,tin, -- mark, illinois, 57 years old. guest: i'm going to put a little spin on everything i've been

hearing this morning. i'm so proud of these guys that are going to little league world series championship. hopefully, they win it. i want everybody in america to get behind them. thank you. host: we will leave his, their and move onto -- his comment there and move on. chris is 29 years old. guest: interesting discussion -- caller: interesting discussion about race in america. i'm 29 years old, black, american. i've moved all across the country. lived on the east coast, the west coast, i've been out of the country. and i think part of the problem wewhen we look at history, tend to take what we see at face value and not dig any deeper. history is written by the victors. it is written by those who have power. the last people to establish the dominant force across any type

of peoples. if you look back in history, if you peel back the layers, there are artifacts, art, writing of civilizations that we have been told in schools are the makeup of white people, these civilizations were black. we have a whole history that was erased in order to perpetuate the idea that white is dominant and white is more closer to godliness. and i think that has perpetuated itself across the whole world. i believe it is a way to ensure genetic survival. if you look at just the gene pool, there are recessive traits and dominant traits. light skin, blue eyes, blonde those arehair -- recessive traits. if all white people got together, say they coalesced around australia, they would still be a small drop in the ocean in terms of the dominant color across the whole world.

if they only intermingle with people,er, other white eventually after seven generations -- host: ring this to a conclusion. .- bring this to a conclusion this is what you feel you've been talking echo guest: -- you've been taught? guest: no, i believe this is what i have not been taught. our history has been whitewashed. host: what do you do in lake zürich, illinois? guest: i'm a teacher. host: integrated school, segregated school? guest: it is an integrated school, but there is a small black and minority citizenry. host: and you are one of the few black teachers? guest: that's correct. host: what's that like for you? guest: i am reminded that i am black everything will day that i interact with the world around me. it is not always explicit.

it is not always in your face. nobody is coming up to me and yelling in my face. word in mythe n face. why people have benefited from a white supremacy system in this country for generations -- white people have benefited from a whites and pharmacy system in this country for generations. generational wealth =-- from a white supremacy system in this country for generations. general racial -- generational wealth is a problem. let's get some response from georgetown law professor, author, former prosecutor paul butler. guest: a lot of the colors have made -- callers have made comments about the importance of member in history, especially african-american history.

when we look at what went on in ferguson, it is so important to understand that this isn't anything new. when we think of history, we like to tell this celebratory story of racial progress. but chris is absolutely right. in some ways, african americans aren't doing as well now as we were doing in the 1950's and 1960's if you look at criminal justice. now are disparities much worse than they were in the 50's and 60's. it doesn't mean that african-americans suddenly turned degenerate or violent. this is about policy, policy implemented by the government, like our 17 loss, these zero-tolerance laws -- our 17 laws, these zero-tolerance laws. what he said about black wealth, that is right. african-americans have gone backwards in the last 20 years. we were especially hard hit by the housing crisis, which is

where most american families had their wealth. it is really important to understand that history does not tell the story of forward thatess that -- progress, there do need to be major interventions. reparations are very controversial. we need to do something and it needs to be about race. host: do you think those economic stats are institutional? guest: they are absolutely institutional. if you look at access to the american dream. for african-americans, unlike any other group, just because your parents did ok, the idea is that you do even better. with african-americans, it is 50/50. with every other group, if your parents did well, it is likely you are going to do every better. african-americans, maybe you do better, maybe you do worse. it is not about black folks not trying, not about personal responsibility, getting young man to pull up their pants. it is about discrimination.

chris used the term "white supremacy." there is a different value placed on white folks' lives than on people of color. host: david is calling from the united kingdom. where are you calling from? tell us about yourself. then go ahead and talk about race relations. caller: myself, i was born in the usa. 1960 -- the army in well, i started out in new york, my parents moved me to miami, florida, and that was quite a shock for me. ie first time i got on a bus, was amazed to see all the black people sitting in the back of the bus. and there was lots of seats. and the only seat was in the back of the bus, so i took it. and people looked at me, not the black people, but the white people, a little bit strange, but they let it go. i was a young kid. i was nine years old.

i didn't understand what was going on. it was really a shock for me. moving on, though, what i -- when i look at things, because i've lived in the u.k. for about 20 years, i finally landed here, and when i see things going on in the united states, i see them from a different viewpoint from most americans. if there was a s, living wage jobs in the united states, i think we would have a lot less problems with race relations in the united states. that was the first thing. as for black people, young black people, i think they need more inspirational leaders that are not sporting stars or musicians. there is nothing wrong with aspiring to be a basketball

player or a football palyer -- player or a musician, but most people won't make it. but there are inspiring black people, but they don't get the press. for instance, i was looking at armstrong williams and was reminded of somebody that i've met in the united kingdom called -- boy --ed out as a young he started out as a young boy in jamaica. the plots job to tend of land they had for the vegetables. in newowns a large farm england. he is very popular with the neighbors. now that he has this gigantic organic farm, he has made it his business to bring people -- young people from the inner city who have never seen a farm, lots

of them in trouble, brought them out to the farm, taught them what it is like to live on a farm. some of them, he really has changed their lives. host: how would you quickly describe race relations in the u.k.? well, it is not perfect. let me put it that way. but it is not nearly the kind of issue that it is -- seems to be in the united states. there are lots of people who -- immigrated in the 1950's. for a long time, there was lots of resentment towards them. but most people, i won't say everybody, most people have generally moved on. -- therethere are lots is lots of resentment to the young people who were not respectful for authority. host: thank you, sir. eleanor clift, even though david

is much older than you, what did you hear from that white man talking about his experience growing up in america and what he had to say? guest: i think he is right that we need to provide more inspirational role models and more paths to success for young, particularly young children of color to succeed. i think you place a lot of blame on the public school system, which could be improved. if we know what needs to be done, it needs more resources, it needs more integrated neighborhoods feeding in. oftenhington, d.c., people move here and they won't even consider the public schools. they don't even consider them. i think that needs to change. i do think europe has had more difficulty incorporating the immigrant populations, the muslim population. i think than the u.s. has had,

in recent years anyway, not going back 200 years. i think if we can say something positive about this country, i don't think there is another country on the planet that is homogenous in its population as this country. we have problems and we have certainly not achieve the full melting pot, but that remains the aspiration. i think in many ways we are far more successful than any other country, particularly in europe. host: armstrong williams, any comments to what eleanor clift had to say or what david from the u.k. had to say? guest: obviously, this is a very insightful discussion. i justen to the callers, find it intriguing the way people speak about white americans, as if they have everything, there are no issues, no challenges, everything is laid out for them, it is just perfect. it is some form of idolatry. guest: for white americans? hostguest: yes.

guest: i don't think that is the case. guest: i know it's not. that is the point i'm making. when the white -- you believe the white man is the source of all your problems, you must believe he is the source of all your solutions. i don't get up in the morning thinking about the white man or the black man. i think about payroll, programming, real estate. the issue is that we give white people all this power until we begin to believe that they have power over us. then we have discussions like this. if i have the attitude that the white man was -- were to give to me, i would not be where i am. if i had added to the black man was against me, i would not be where i am. -- if i had the attitude the black man was against me, i would not be where i am. just because a police officer sought -- shot someone down like an animal, does not mean

everyone has that thought. we get upset. we say this young black person committed a crime, then all black people must commit crime. we see people as individuals. we are not groups. we have to get away from group thinking. they have to put their pants on just like i do. they need us as much as we need them. we are in this experiment together. we met -- there are good people in the world. 85% of americans could care less about race and would not discriminate against you. why would you take away from someone because of the color of their skin or their gender and take away from the profit of your business? you want people who bring creativity. people do not do well because they are black, they do well because they studied. their parents taught them respect and enthusiasm for education. no one is successful because of their race. guest: that's not what i said. guest: that's how i interpreted it. we all come in this world with

our own baggage and circumstances, but you have to believe that you are just as good as anyone else. without that, you're dead before you start. host: eleanor clift, do you want to clarify what you said? guest: i said when i went to atlanta, there were five historically black colleges. oft, to me, speaks opportunity that is provided. when it is there, people take advantage of it. we don't provide those opportunities everywhere or in enough places. host: professor butler. guest: the college that allows african-american young men who want to allow -- to be rappers and basketball players -- i know a lot more young black men who want to be barack obama then want to be -- than want to be jay-z. role models, mentors are important, but they are not really responding to the problem. it does not really matter , theer christopher garner young man in the chokehold in new york, or michael brown, who was killed by police in ferguson --

.. that may not be your experience but when you loans like white business owners can do. and you are right, armstrong. it was seen that it's irrelevant rachelle. apartment buildings, there is a

test case where you send a white prospective renter and an african-american prospective renter, they are almost always treated differently. money is green. you would think there wouldn't be a difference but there is something real about racism. you say i don't wawant to prete it doesn't exist. >> that's like saying i don't want to think gravity exists. discrimination is real. >> patricia is calling in from california. she is 64 years old. good morning, patricia. >> good morning. thank you. this is my first time calling. host: host: yes. ca caller: i would like to address the gentleman about he was stating, all of these african-american names in crime but what i would like to address is what about the mass killings we have seen?

the mass killings we have seen has been non-people of color. i don't see the outrage when it comes to those little kids out there on east coast who were blown away. that was by a white gentleman. i forget how old he was. i don't hear the outcry. we talked about this young man who buy and sold cigarettes and he should have been blown away. they wasn't blown away. i think it was colorado whobly those people away in the movie theatre. he wasn't blown away. he was able to be arrested and now he is going to court. i don't understand why when it comes to black children, they are blown away. i want to let you know, i am 64 years old. he was born and raised in memphis, tennessee, my father

was one of the black american farmers. i have moved from there to chicago, to california and to nevada. the first time i ever had a police record, i had two children, both of our children graduated from university. i put my kids through school. they don't have the issues in corporate america i had. okay? i had issues because i was black, white america. the first time i had to deal with white america was when i was in corporate america. i did have issues but i made sure my kids -- i know it's not a black world and i sent my kids to university but what i would like to say about all of that is that i have a home in nevada, a gated community, the minimum house is over $500,000. on the day of barack obama was being elected in 2008, i was campaigning for him in my community because it was gated.

nobody could get in there. i was walking along, not going to every home. they had a list of all of the voters who had decided who they were going to vote. but barack obama, i had a white gentleman who came over to me and asked what do you call yourself doing? i said, excuse me? i said this is none of your business what i am doing. and, you know, i told him, you are harassing me. you need to leave me alone. the next thing i know, the homeowners association president approached me, asked me my name. i asked him his name. he refused to give me his name. the police officer came up on me. i had to give him my name, my social security number. i had to give up everything because i didn't have my id on me because i was walking. now, there is non-wrong. i don't have a police record. i have a degree. my children have degrees. what-have-you. the united states, i was here, i also have a home in california. when we moved in to the home,

the neighbors put a dead rat on our porch. a dead rat on the porch. this is what i want to tell and i will get off. what we need to do in the community, i don't care what color you are, we have had problems with the police here my husband and i. we have problems with the police here, also. but you know what i do? i write a letter to the chief of police, and i copy the mayor and i copy everybody i can and, also, the justice department. anybody else, you go to your job and you get a complaint, you are going to be -- i heard about this thing in ferguson, what i couldn't understand is they said this officer that they had. i said wait a minute how can that be when those people told me, this happened to me? nobody is writing letters and it works. believe me. it works every time. >>. host: host: patricia, thank you very much. you were shaking your head. guest: so many african americans have stories like that. and, you know, like i said at

the beginning about what's going on ferguson, you get tired of it. you know, you really do want things to change. you want -- we want to hope and we want change. >> that's one reason, though. i think that's happening in ferguson now with these young folks coming in with new ideas, i think that's inspiring. so, i am hoping this is a moment where we will see that change. i know there is going to be this freedom ride for ferguson next weekend, labor day weekend when young folks of all different backgrounds, different colors, different sexual orientations are all coming together to create change. >> go ahead. i think it's important that she said. i think she said a lot. she taught her children differently about how to deal with the world but she also said that she did not take the disrespect. she committed herself to writing letters, and the issue in that community, this is, again, an issue here about law

enforcement. no community where she was reported for expressing and exercising her rights, the support and whomever she wanted to, the police fell down on their job. they should have never asked her because she committed no crime. she did nothing wrong. that was a failure of law enforcement. >> that's the issue here the community, yes, you can have ignorance, racism but in law enforcement, when they reample their racism and ignorance, that's where america fails in its justice system. >> paul butler, do you see a difference with your students who are in their 20s? guest: when it comes to race and think being race? i would like to think so. i have written about hip-hop. when we look at pop culture and the influence it has on all of our young people, you know, we do have african-american men and women, beyonce, jay-z, and

hip-hot, repeat for criminal justice. my wife, latino asian american students and african-american students who listen to hip-hop, they know that the police have this different relationship with african-american men. they know that when you have more young black men in prison than in college that that impacts families, that that impacts communities. but i do think that they are month open-minded about race. >> and book t.v. sat down with professor paul butler to talk about his book "let's get free: a hip-hop theory of justice" if you would like to see that in its entirety go to booktv.org. in the upper left hand corner, type in his name. you will be able to watch that online. wendell is calling from atlanta, 54 years old. good morning, wendell. you are on "the washington journal" caller: good morning. how is everybody today? host: good. caller: i was listening to dr.

butler. dr. butler, i don't think you have a complete grip on what's going on. a couple of years ago, the hispanics had a thinking on cinco de mayo where they were not going to come to work. i went to get some black kids to come to work and the things i was told well, i don't want nobody telling me what to do and they said how much does this job pay? and i said $15 an hour. he told his mother he was going to work a job. the a lot of kids feel they are going to become ballplayers like you say or become hip-hop

artists. so many kids locked up in jail. when is the black kids going to stop selling drugs and stop robbing the adults, the again men, when are we going to start mentoring these kids so they can do better? host: tell us about yourself. you are 54 years old living in atlanta. caller: i am living in atlanta from new york city. i have been eat up can cops and i work with cops right now i had to fight guys every day in the barracks who wanted to go to these meetings or whatever and i said anybody you are going to

leave. these soldiers working together, marines working together. my thing is this. i don't want to hear all of this stuff, all of this whoa is me is like tearing me up. we've got to do something. i have been out of work. if i was laid off i created my own job. i made a job. there are people who come to the united states who i mmigrate to this country with nothing. theefr got new houses and cars because they have something called a work ethic. host: wendell, thank you. paul butler, he addressed you specifically guest: i'm sorry that wendell has had all of these, it sounds like really horrible experiences with racism. he says he's been eat up by white cops, he got stabbed by one of his fellow soldiers in the military and all of these horrible experiences with white folks has somehow brought him to

a critique of african-american young folks. so i don't quite get that that young people that i know want to work african unemployment has remained twice what unemployment is. >> that's not about black folks not wanting to work. that's where people wouldn't higher us because of discrimination. it's true for too many people. what about drugs? why don't they stop selling drugs? >> a great example. if you got not far from here to the national institute of health and ask: do blacks use drugs or sell drugs more than anybody else in this country? they say, no. african-americans, about 13% of folks who are involved in drugs. but if you go really two blocks from here to the department of justice, two blocks up for drug, 16% of black. 13% of people who do the crime.

60 percent who do the time. so again, people get tired of talking about race, talking about discrimination but it's as real as gravity and unless we deal with that as we are doing in the show today, we are not going to make progress. >> has this officer in and -- and you a former prosecutor, has this officer been convicted already. host: darren wilson? guest: as an important question: is he even going to be charged? lots of reasons could be concern about whether this prosecutor here has a conflict of interest, if he can be fair. he's got five folks in his family who do work or have worked for the police department. st. louis has never convicted a police officer of manslaughter or murder and this guy has gone out of his way to praise the police. i don't think anyone who thinks the way they were doing crowd control and protest control in

ferguson was a shining moment in law enforcement but he says he doesn't even think the should be put on the indicates. there is real reason to be concerned about whether he can do a full and fair investigation. if you are the prosecution it's hard to conflict police officers and people understand they've got the toughest jobs in the world. there are a lot of years. it doesn't mean it's impossible. it just means it's difficult. >> governor clift, look at the politics of this. there is an article in the "st. louis post," the fact that a black man was appointed to lead this. whites are contributing to a 300,000 dollar fund for darren wilson. there are some, you know, racial and political divides there. i think governor nixon made a good decision. i think it was his decision that put captain johnson in charge of the police work. that was a very good decision and instantly brought calm. if they hadn't released that

surveillance video which stirred up the community which seemed to come out of nowhere, i think we might have seen more calm prevail. i think, you know, governor nixon was being talked about as a possible running mate for hillary clinton if she runs for president. he was seen as a moderate democrat who won in a conservative red state, but i think what came through here is that he does not or did not seem to have the feel for the african-american community that a southern democratic governor would have because blacks are such an important part of the democratic coalition. he seemed rather tone deaf. he took too long to visit the community and, you know, said some things that got people upset. so i don't think he gets any awards for how he handled things. and in terms of, you know, police rallying to raise money

for the police officer, you know, i don't think we know the race of everyone who is contributed money but we can suspect that there are probably white people who think police have a tough job and he is getting railroaded. and depending upon where you sit, you can, you know, look at this situation and it may be come to that conclusion. so, i think it's possible he will be indicted. the color the prosecutor is not presenting the case. he has two prosecutors. i believe one is an african-american woman. the other is a 27-year veteran that are apparently respected people. generally, grand juries go where they are led. i think it i think it's probably 50/50 whether there will be an indictment. if he is not indicted he still has the federal government looking perhaps to make a civil rights case against him. and if he is exonerated, i still think he feeds to suffer some

punishment. and i leave that up to the powers that be there, but, you know, he may -- the legal definition set by the supreme court, i believe, in 1990 has to be sort of a reasonable expectation that he was facing a dangerous situation. so, i am sure they will replay all of the circumstances and he could -- he could legally be the -- i don't want to say exonerated because that's too grand a word. he may legally get off, but i still think there needs to be some punishment and i think this police officer's life is probably very much compromised at this point in terms of his prospects. >> armstrong? >> you asked the weather whether he has already been convicted. of course, he has been convicted by a certain element of that jurisdiction, and by the media.

and the only thing we can do is base our perception on justice and injustice and based upon what we hear, what we see and what we read. there are so many other things that you have to consider in the legal process. but, you know, i want to -- what i am going to say is directly to professor butler because it's quite bothersome to me actually: maybe i am misinterpreting what you are saying but i know i am not. believing today the reason why, let's just say african-americans whom you seem to care most about, the reason why they don't have jobs, they don't have opportunity, they cannot make progress, is because of racism if anybody watches this broadcast believes the only reason you are not progressing is because of racism, that's a sad state. yes, racism exists. yes, police are out of control.

but 80% of why people don't progress in this country, they don't attain success and continue is because of them the family. education still important. discipline is important. making good choices in this country is important. encouraging two-parent households, households discipline, having babies out of wedlock is something you need to consider unless you know you can afford, the child and the responsibilities that come along with it. it's troubling to me to think that some young kids who happens to be black watching this show today believes, well, i am not where i am supposed to be because of racism and law enforcement. >> that's not true. i wish i had time to do a let'son about african-american history or economics but what i have time to note is while i think you are wrong, i think a

lot of people share your view, so when president obama was asked, he mentioned my brother's keeper's program about your personal responsibility narrative that if black and latino men pull up their pants, it will be all right. my brother's keeper's leaves out half the race. women and girls get left out. they have the same kind of concerns and problems that african-american men have. if you look at the ways black people haven't had capital to start our own businesses, if we maybe could higher our own, we wouldn't have to be so concerned from discrimination. it's difficult to get money to start businesses. we don't have the same access

that other groups have. i think you have a fundamental misunderstanding. >> could it be financial diversity? could it be that you don't have the education? that you never taught the skills of what hard work and discipline is could it be something other than racism and discrimination? >> do you think the fact that black folks have inferior skills is unrelated to racism? >> what you do when you are in that school. you make the most of the education and environment like many of us have done through our lives. this is nothing new. it's not unique. >> children are most making most of what they have. so, you know, when we look at black history, it's a wonder they are doing as well as they are. i think that's a testament. >> no wonder people do well when they make sacrifices and have discipline.

i am saying it's easy to fail. it is easy to fail. >> michael brown chose to go to college. that did not stop the police officer. >> that should not have happened. >> what happened -- >> it was a situation. >> how many times do you say that? >> that will continue to happen. >> the pattern is an unfortunate situation. >> law enforcement of law enforcement. we need to have law enforcement. host: gentlemen, we will leave that conversation. eleanor clift, do you want to put a period on that? >> i i think racism exists, but, you know, young people have to deal with life as it is, and there are paths to succeed regardless of racism. it's harder and we should make it easier, but i think in a way they are both right. host: 3 years old, hamilton, ohio down by cincinnati, sarah, please tell us a little bit about yourself and go ahead and make your comment on "race in

america." caller: i wanted to thank everyone and all of your guests. i appreciate their opinions, and they really are all correct in what they are stating. i am 33 years old. i was t i was the only person of any color, bi-racial throughout my childhood in school years. when i became 19 years old, i actually met my first black person. i did not realize race was such a big deal until i moved from the country to the city. where i grew up, and like i said, a predominantly white area, i did not feel racism. no white person ever looked at me and said, you can't play softball because you are black. you can't go to college because you are a black race simply a strong point but the civil

rights movement and our fathers and grandfathers and mothers and grandmothers, they fought to change that silent. this is about police brew tanty. i was married at 30. would heed our first child at 31. now i look at my baby and i think, you know, i have to teach her about race relations because i don't want him shot because he had an attitude. for a police officer to situate they do not deal with attitude is saying to a dentist, you know, i don't like teeth. you are in the wrong profession. i have to really completely agree with mr. williams. if you work hard, you can obtain your goals. you cannot quit. there are going to be a lot of people who spit in your face. you might have to fieel the cra but that's no matter where you are at. you have to make the best of the situation and keep trying even with a criminal record.

my husband has a criminal record, but he works 55 hours a week and provides for his family. i told him not too long ago, you have changed the lives of so many you don't even know. you broke a generalal divide. what our fathers couldn't do and didn't want to have a traditional household, you changed for our children. our children know what a mother and father truly is, how to act, how to go to work. and i will state this other thing, too: growing up in a completely white area, my mother taught me, if you walk with somebody else's land, you can get shot. if you go in somebody else's home unannounced, ug you can be shot. if you backtac to the police, they will shoot you. this is -- this is not a color issue. the colored is sad because you have to believe you can be better. you have to believe you can be better. we know that -- we know that racism is a reality but you have to believe it can be better. you have to show action. silent protests and the freedom

ride again is where it's at. host: sarah, if you were living in ferguson or the st. louis area, would you -- would you attend some of the protests that have been happening out there? caller: honestly, i would, but i would go back to write to go my governor. you go through the proper command, chain of command. i couldn't take my child out there because i would be sfrooed some of the youtube things, my fami family's life would be in jeopardy. but in act the waactuality. they called looters protesters. those are two different definitions. the protestsors that are out there, like i said, speaking and holding their hands up, it breaks my heart, but if it comes down to the behavior, both the officer and the young gentleman, the behavior wasn't correct on both sides. it's sad it ended up the way it

did. we have to teach our youth they are the responsibility of authority, every police officer, they are not all bad, they are not all horrible and we have to respect authority. we need to give psychological exams to these officers, there needs to be cameras and there needs to be a check and balance. host: thank you very much. a lot on the table. quickly around the table. armstrong williams, she agreed with what some of what you had to say. >> i respect professor butler and i respect ms. clift. we have perspectives in this conversation and there is not one size that fits all. these kids are in trouble. these kids are not progressing. i mean since 1966, with the passage of the civil rights legislation, 5 out of 20 black families were in poverty. today, in 2014, it's 15 out of

20. there is something wrong. >> maybe it's the government. maybe it's the programs that it is designed that are not working. maybe we need to go back and say look, the government can give you a hand up and can help you along the way but you should never allow the government to become your destiny. obviously there is something wrong. obviously if you look at families whether it's jewish or irish at the turn of the last century in a similar plight as american blacks are today, obviously, the family unit plays a role in this. it plays a role. there are so many things that particular play a roll but the bottom line is, i think, she is absolutely right. you've got to teach your children. i don't care how many police officers there are, to respect authority and take a sub might have been positioning because there are lives at stake. >> she does address law enforcement at the end of the call. she said some jurisdictions are moving towards cameras and putting cameras on policemen. and i think, you know, that's probably the direction that we are going. i want to mention there is a group called "strategies for

youth" based in cambridge, massachusetts, who work with police officers on how to deal with teenagers and kids on how to deal with police. yes, it's authority. you shouldn't be giving them giv guff, but to teach kids that it's okay to be submissive full but still have your self respect. >> eleanor clift, congress is coming back in a couple of weeks. what do you see politically happening in the short session that they have left? >> i think the chair of the judiciary, congressman goodwillat russia has been resistant to any kind of hearings. they have very little time. i think with the federal investigation going on, i think they are probably going to duck this. my guess. >> paul butler? >> i want to push back against this notion that if only black people worked harder, if only they had dads in the home, if

only they weren't so dependent on their government, then it would be all good some of the hardest working women, people i know, are african-american women. armstrong. i have heard you talk about the women in your family and how much respect that you have for them. in 2014, the average net worth of a black woman is $100. the average net worth of a latina is $110. >> that's not about those women. it's about, again, the structures that don't allow them the same access as white men whose net worth is many thousand times greater. does that mean that white men are working a thousand times harder than latinos and african-american women but eleanor, i do agree with you that this moment can't just be about conviction of a police officer. if there is going to be meaningful change, it's got to be broader.

folks are focusing on the body cameras, on the police officers. >> that's real important. peter, in the earlier segment you mentioned that we don't know how many police officers kill african-american men, anybody, because those statistics are not kept. this false equation. if you compare the number of black men who guilt killed by police and other black men. we don't know. those numbers aren't kept? >> in ferguson, it was striking how little political engagement there has been from the black community. it's as though they kind of gave up. i think now you do see some renewed interest and they are understanding maybe they can get elected and they are going to push for more representation on the police force. >> yes. >> and a piece, i think, in this morning's "post" or "time"s about st. louis not having any kind of oversight for police matters, which many other jurisdictions have. and they are going to push for that.

so these kind of structures are important. the system is stacked against african-americans. they never get the benefit of the doubt, and now, i think we are at least talking about putting more counter structures in place. particularly in places like ferguson, which, let's face it, most of us have never heard of until this happened. host: paul butler, i mentioned before you came out here that one of your titles is that you have been arrested. >> i have. host: very quickly, what happened? >> i was a prosecutor, the highest profile case in the department of justice against a u.s. senator. during that time, i got arrested for a crime that i didn't commit. basically, there was a dispute about a parking space. it was funny because neither i nor the woman who i was in the dispute with owned a car. i was trying to be an entrepreneur like you like us to be. yes have a car at a parking space but i rented. this woman believed that it was

hers, she had the right to rent it. so she started harassing the person who i was renting it to, didn't care when i showed her that lease and eventually she called the police and told them that i had run up to her and pushed her. that was her story. it turned out that she was a snitch. she worked with the cops. the cops came. they saw me. at that time, i was a young black man and they took me off to jail. so, you know, it was in one sense extraordinary. in another sense, you know, my name is legion. as i say in the book, that incident made a man out of me. it made a black man out of me because so many black men have stories like that. but things worked out fine for me. things worked out fine because i could afford the best lawyer in a city. the jury came back with a verdict in less than 5 minutes. things worked out well for me because, you know, i could look like the kind of black man that

a jury didn't want to send for prison. things worked out fine for me because i had gone to yale and harvard. the other thing, i was innocent. >> didn't at the end of the day seem like the most important reason why things worked out fine for me. if you think about an experience that helps you understand, you know, how most young black men and women are who don't have the kind of opportunities that i had to go to the great schools that i went to, you know, it really does change the way that you think about them. it makes you less about pointing your finger at them and lecturing them about personal responsibility and really wanting the great american dream that i have had the opportunity to experience to be open to all. >> it's an unfortunate story but you would have to believe the woman only pressed those charges and called the cops because they were black, not because of the argument over the parking space. >> i think the police were more

likely to arrest me. >> the woman, she was just as much a part of it. >> it certainly came out at the trial that she had mental issues. >> not racial issues? mental? >> she had issues. host: kevin calling in from willsburg, west virginia, 53 years old. kevin, very quickly, allegations about yourself and go ahead and make your comment on "race in america". >> good morning. i am a self-employed entrepreneur. >> that's basically what i have done my whole life. i would just like to quickly tump. i feel that there is reverse discrimination going on. and, you know, it shouldn't be about whether you are black american, white american or americans. this is a country where if you work hard and believe in

yourself, you can 6 succeed. no matter where you came from. i have lost businesses and had successful businesses. it's not about the color of my skin. it's about attitude and willingness to dig down deep and work hard. you know, i think a big problem with blacks -- and i am not prejudice -- is, you know, they -- they play the race card, and it hurts them. employers are afraid to hire them because if there is an issue at work, they will say, well, it's because i am black, i am being picked on. maybe it's because you are not doing your job. one of the callers made a comment about race.

she basically got crucified in the media. you listen to the black comedians and every other word is the "n" word. and it's okay, and i don't think it's okay. i don't think they should do that because, you know, white people hear them saying that and think that it's okay. it's not. it's wrong. and i -- host: kevin, we've got a lot on the table there. armstrong williams, what did you hear from that gentleman? >> there is definitely a racial double standard in this country. there is no question. for me, as a conservative, some of the things that professor butler can say that i certainly cannot say. i will say it but the bar is different. yes. i mean even the use of the "n" word. even if someone who is a minority said what paula butler, she would never have lost her

business if they were black. i don't like what he said in terms of black people. you know, it's just, you know, they are just this mindset -- there is this double standard that is perpetrated by the media to make us think that we are different and suffering and yeah action it is true if the n word, the bad word, nobody should be allowed to say it. i don't care what context you said it. it's an ugly, awful word and what it could jurs up is the most loatheful part of our history. nobody should be able to use it. host: what did you hear from kevin? >> i thought of vice president cheney and his insistens that everything he had done in his life, he did on his own and then you go back and you look and you see, you know, various government assistance that his parents got, scholarships he was able to take advantage of, you know, a whole, you know, public

system in this country. i mean it's wonderful to talk about individualism, but we are all reliant on what government does for us and it same to me government does more for some people than it does for others. >> armstrong williams, you mentioned that you are a conservative. i am going to read a tweet here this is from tiki. and you can take this. i think you will -- let me just read it: i am an armstrong house product is what she tweets in. i think she is going with sometimes we hear that conservatives, blacks are house slaves. >> people are shaped by their experiences. obviously she doesn't know me. she listens to what i say, and she makes a judgment. >> that's the beauty of free speech in america. you have a right to express yourself, and i will defend that. i don't have to worry about what she is implying.

i know who i am. >> that's all that matters is. host: eleanor clift, conservative african-american, is that correct? >> well, i think, you know, the history of this country has made them -- has made democrats out of african-americans. i mentioned earlier that i lived in atlanta. when i moved to atlanta from new york, i was surprised to find black republicans, and the daily world, which was the local black newspaper, was republican-owned. and i realized that that went back to the days of lincoln and politics and how the federal government reacted changed the voting patterns of african-americans. i don't think anything is sealed in perpetuity forever. i think republicans could attract more african-american votes. you see rand paul out there as being pretty aggressive about it. i still think it's -- he's got a tough road because i don't think

he offers giovanvery many polic that would that appeal to blacks. you see black conservatives coming around to the idea that our prisons are really stacked against african-americans and looking at reducing sentences and that sort of thing. politics is very much involved here. it goes to the actions of the policies of the federal government. here, i think, paul is very correct that the policies of administrations going back for a long time have played a role in the kind of structural racism that still exists. host: we have callers on this program in the "washington journal" say, i can't understand why a black person would be a conservative. s? >> i look at white women and say the same thing. i mean, you know, i have my beliefs and it's hard to understand how other people don't feel the same way. but in this country, over and

over, different people look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions. >> that's what's going on. host: what do you think of that tweet? >> i think that's pretty offensive. host: paul butler? >> i have a lot of disagreements with my friend, armstrong but i don't question his blackness or his commitment to african-americans or racial justice. i think he is totally wrong, but i think he is speaking in good faith. but what i was concerned about the caller is, he has a view that i think is shared by conservative folks on the supreme court, that the main discrimination problem now is discrimination against white folks so if you look at where the court is on voting rights and affirmative actiontion and school desegregation, i think that's pretty much what chief justice john roberts and scalia and clarence thomas and that's flat-out wrong. host: you are a friend of clarence thomas? >> yes. he is my meantor. i worked for him. he is 1 of the reasons i evolved

into the person i am today. i don't think of myself in a racial way. i am a conservative. i believe in traditional values like my parents. >> my values and beliefs comes from the scripture of the bible. >> that's my belief system. this is what i try to do in my struggles and striving every day. i was clearly in the image of god. so that is the image of how you i see myself, trying to be a godly person, not black, white, or any other things. i see myself because i was deflated god's image, i've got to be good. there is nothing i cannot do because to me, that is my model in myt in life, not human being who is flawed. my striving is to try to be, an imperfect being" and paul is right and these are good people. we just have different perspective. and i know how hard he fights for these injustices and we need it. but i fight in a different way

th but our goals are the same. we take different tactics to get there. host: samuel, gulfport, mississippi, 40 years old. quickly about yourself, samuel. go ahead and make your comment. caller: first of all, i am a truck driver now. i go all over theplace. i live in different xhub communities. i was raised here at 7 years old, moved out west to california. no place other than oakland, california. aim white male. but i am human is where it's at. i think everything should pull that card and, you know, humans, human beings, right, wrong, whatever, we've got to do what we have to do to put this police issue, this ferguson issue. okay? it was my opinion on this, the cameras on the cops. they ondon't only need to be on the cops on the streets.

they need to be on the cops in the prisons and the jails and everything else because that is what is my opinion, again, is running the gangs and, you know, the black community is more -- here, i think they are bleeding grounds, the project housings, i think is breeding grounds for lost kids with no direction in life. not only white, black, hispanic, everywhere and everywhere in the united states, people need to get a direction. host: you identified yourself as a white male born in mississippi. do you think your attitude toward race is different than your parents'? caller: of course.

host: different than your kids caller: i had my first-born a year ago. his will definitely be different. you know, my mom, yes. you know, my mom was, you know, a straight bigot. i couldn't bring -- i couldn't bring any black friends, you know, home to eat at the table, you know, but i was only 7 or 8 years old. through that time, while we were living here. california was a different story. you know, i had more black friends now and i always had more black friends than i had white friends or any other friends because the way -- the way i relate is, you know, related to the black man, you know, was the struggles in the streets with the police. if i had -- if i was walking down the street with a black guy and i was, you know, i was dressed hip to the code, i was

treated just like him with, you know, through the police. they wouldn't just search him down. we were looking like we were up to no good. host: thank you. i want to respond but he used the term "the black community" and t"the projects." when you hear those terms, are those code words in any way to you? >> well, i think that when folks used words like ghetto or projects, those are code words for african-americans so, you know, lopez has a book about politics where he talks about these folds that especially politicians use, because now, know one is going to say, i don't want to hire you because you are black about they will make racial appeals.

samuel, you said you are a veteran. thank you for your service. i think that the point about segregation is important because we know that african-americans 50 years after brown versus board of education still live in an extraordinarily segregated environment. it's not about access to white people, per se, but it's about having access to the goodies that come with white folks like better schools, having better services from all government sources including the police so so segregation is really the focus of a lot of the efforts to improve racial justice because that's the source, segregated homes and neighborhoods are the source of a lot of the problem. host: juanita, 67 years old, savannah, georgia caller: thank you. i want to tell paul that i really thank him for what he is

saying. i live in a household with my mother who is 98 years old. she has always told us her biggest fear in life was raising her black son. she said, if i am going to get through to turn down the one who is still struggling to get up. my brother at the age of 17, his life was taken from him, accused of armed robbery. they fill these young children's minds while they are young. they get people who have done fight to sit up there with their shirt and neck ties on to help put down the one who is scuffling. when you come out of a household with no food to eat and get up

to go to school in the morning, it's nothing but terror. the black man has been put down in this country and over the world during his life. you are talking about the murder of this young man. there is murder going on every day when you see young men been picked up in the penitentiary. >> that's murder. >> that's murder. you see the mother is left with nothing. the black man has gone back. let's go back to 1926 or 27, the black wall street. was emmett allowed to get killed and his mother died in the '90s? there was hanging and lynchings. they over power black people doing the slavery because my mother said, out of every slave

house, there was 50 slaves to 200 whites. and if you did something wrong, they would walk to your house and beat you completely down. we didn't flee from this country. we were broken down in all kind of ways. to have a black man come and teach us, we have only been taught what they teach us in school, belief in crist first columbus. you have to believe in the bible because this is where it's at. we have been let down by our black people who fought and put in partitioned slavery. they get up and forget about the bottom rail. what you talk about now? we talking about race or murder? we could talk about race.

race will last us until the time we are dead and gone. i saw my mother with welts on her back. my mother, everything they created in statesburg, georgia, has been taken from them. they didn't ever have a whi beautiful lawn. black women chair hair. i said if a black man sleep with you all, y'all are the most powerful women in the world. i was in california irvine, a white man told me his biggest fear was the black man's penis. you have that happen this summer in mississippi when they stopped a white woman. how big was the black man's penis? look how low-grade they put us? when you put a person in a hog pen, what more you expect out of it you see a politician, plaque politicians come around when

it's time for them to get elected. we been stepped on by people sitting there with their collars on who made it off of our backs. i marched in the '60s. i scuffle. i am a single parent. i am a chef. i got fired for cooking too m h brussel sprouts. how is that? host: juanita, thank you for calling in. let's just get a reaction to some of the things she had to say. armstrong williams? >> listen, my heart goes out to her. obviously she is not only filled with pain of the past but also the present. and obviously, that stirs up that mindset and hopefully justice will become blind and innocent men and women and

whomever will not be brutalized like animals. we have not mentioned and i want to say everything is brutalized by the police. not just black people. a lot of people lapping to the show who may not look like the people on this panel will tell you the police is cruel. they have beaten pregnant white women. i am sure if that woman had been black, they would have said it was racism. the issue today is no other issue coming across is law enforcement, their training more so than the issue of race than anything else. 67-year-old southern black woman told us her story, 98-year-old mother. you are from south carolina. have you heard that story before? >> in fairness. host: back to south carolina. your parents. did you ever hear of lynchings when you were growing up? >> no. not of lynch, but i have heard

about the cruelty of people but never about lynching. host: eleanor clift? >> the long and mostly terrible history of race in this country is very fresh in most if not all african-american families. when you think that the attorney general, his white sister, vivian malone, was one of the students that integrated the university of alabama in the 1960s, so this is a fresh wound and you could say that b ferguson happened, it's like pulling the band-aid off and we examine the wound all over again. so the way this woman spoke, it was almost like poetry. it was the way she we have her various elements of her story together. it's quite heart-wrenching and i think that white folks in this country have to understand, you know, the pain on the other side, which is why now we have

this reaction in ferguson and i think that the symbol of the hands up "do not shoot", that symbol will live on. host: paul butler? >> it was heart-wrenching and i want to think her for calling and telling folks her experiences because, you know, a lot of times when african-americans talk about race, people say we are playing the race card. the fact is it's not easy to hear these stories or to tell these stories and so when people do tell them, it really is a vote of confidence from the american people to hope that there really can be change if folks just understand. the other thing that i thought was interesting was the way she focused on black men, which a lot of african-american women do. god bless them. she also said her mother had welts on her back. so, it's not only black men or men of color who experienced discrimination. it's the whole community.

again, black women just make or just they make less money than black men. they are more likely to live below the poverty line. a lot of programs only focus on black men. it's not racial justice if you leave half of the race out. host: her mother was born in 1960, been through quite a bit in race relationships in this country. eleanor clift, is it helpful that al sharpton went out to ferguson and jesse jackson went out to ferguson? >> i think here again, i think the people in ferguson welcomed sharpton initially and i think they recognized he was the one who brought the trayvon martin case to national attention. i think some folks remember his checkered history going way back when and wonder if he is the best, you know, civil rights leader, but he happens to have -- he has a platform. he was there. and i think the people in ferguson appreciate the

attention. what bothers them the most is they feel they haven't been heard. they will welcome, you know, any leader who will listen to them and bring their story fonational attention. host: susan, 50 years old, in general. tell us quickly about yourself. caller: hi. i am a single parent and raise my children 17 years by myself. i have been discriminated by the system. when i went and was had a white police officer, had to experience brutality of domestic violence for years. and got no help from the police community. so, i can understand

the trauma. first of all, i think you have to understand that we white policemen, 50% of them in the state of new jersey cannot take their guns home because of the amount of domestic violence going on their households. so, if you really think they are going to be desensitized and go out and do their jobs, we are kidding ourselves. there was so much domestic violence in the homes offlers police officers. host: i apologize i am going to rush you a little bit. paul butler, the lead story this morning in "the new york times," a lot of papers, the intalz administration has called for a review of the militarization of police departments. is there going to be changes? >> yes. that's an important first step. you know, the system now is

reversed. the military surplus weapons can go to local police departments. they just have to apply and show some kind of loose need but where it gets weird is then when they get these tanks and ak-47s, they have to use them within a year or the government threatens to take them back. so, you know, it's like who was it chertoff said if you put a gun on the stage, it has to go off. >> that's what happens here we need common sense reforms. it's gratifying to know that the police department is listening to especially african-americans who have led the call for more responsible police practices. >> i agree with that. i mean the images that were presented initially out of ferguson, you thought you were witness something going on iraq or syria. >> we don't think we treat our citizens that way. but it turns out that we do. maybe some jurisdictions, you know, big cities need some of