see what they are doing to attract patient access experiences. the 14-day access measure has been removed from all individual employee performance plans, to illuminate any motive for inappropriate scheduling practices or behaviors. -- to eliminate any motive for inappropriate scheduling practices or behaviors. we have direct access to facilities who need the most improvement. there is a team on the ground in phoenix where we have taken the action on all of the recommendations made in the ig's may interim report. until we get our systems up to capacity, we are expanding the use of private sector care. at the same time, we are better monitoring closely to ensure veterans receive the quality care they deserve, whether in v.a. or outside v.a. [applause] second, leadership challenges. too many leaders fail to take ownership of the problems facing their facilities and employees.

they fail to identify shortfalls in resources and take action to obtain the additional resources they have needed. and they fail to set the standards for honesty and integrity and quash the culture of self protection and retaliation. as you would expect, we've made a number of leadership changes in the field and at the central office. to help address our immediate concerns, we brought in former v.a. undersecretary for health, dr. jonathan perlin, for a short tour duty as senior advisor. and we brought in v.a. general counsel lee bradley to help sort through v.a.'s responsibility in taking action against those accused of god -- wrongdoing or managerial negligence. since may 1, 2014, we have taken over 30 personnel actions, and

investigations are ongoing. two members of the senior executive service have resigned or retired. three members of the senior executive service have been placed on administrative leave pending the results of investigations. over two dozen health care professionals have been removed from their positions. and four more gs 15 or below have been placed on administrative leave. [applause] that said, right now, we are at 100 ongoing investigation that v.a. facilities being conducted by the office of special counsel, an independent federal agency that investigates whistleblower allegations. and inspections by the inspector general, in some cases jointly investigating with the fbi. in most cases, we cannot begin our own investigations while third-party investigations are still active. but when those investigations are concluded and the findings are provided to us, you can bet

we will take appropriate action -- [applause] as those outcomes unfold, we will share information to the degree that we can while abiding by the law. issues of privacy covered by the privacy act of 1974 and appropriate due process. for cases involving senior executives, as president obama said, the veterans access, choice, and accountability act of 2014 that president obama recently signed into law, streamlines the removal of senior executives in the appeals process, intended to allow us to terminate ses leaders's employment more quickly than we might have done previously if misconduct is found. [applause] it doesn't change any timelines or -- any timelines related to front-line employees or

low-level supervisors. at v.a., we have a noble mission of caring for veterans and their families. and we have strong institutional values and mission critical ideals that must profoundly influence our day-to-day behavior and performance. integrity, commitment, advocacy, respect, and excellence. in performing that mission, and guided by those values, we will judge the success of our efforts against a single metric, veterans outcomes. our strategic plan already states "v.a. is a customer service organization. we serve veterans." if we fail at serving veterans, we fail. they are our only reason for being. we are awaiting the outcomes of investigations now ongoing in the osc, the oic, and all other

parties. in some cases, we have already announced personnel actions. in cheyenne, wyoming and fort collins, colorado, those are both examples. others will follow. in addition to leadership accountability issues, we are also addressing cultural issues, and we are creating a more open v.a. we have frozen bha's central office and --vha's central office and visitor center. and we have suspended awards for 2014. the a is now posting regular updates showing progress and improvements in access to health care and making public additional quality statistics available for every medical center. communication is key. gibson and i have been making the rounds at medical centers

and regional offices to get on the ground truth. over the past several weeks, i've been to facilities in phoenix, las vegas, memphis, reno, and palo alto. later this week, i will be back here in durham, north carolina. at every location, i've met with very good people who spoke honestly, from the janitorial service to the medical staff directors. caring and compassionate employees who want to do right by veterans. i have listened carefully to veterans at all of these better -- these visits, and to our vso partners like the american legion, and to all our own hard working employees. i want to know when you and other veterans are not being served well. and i also want to know when you are. the information, the insight, and the input i hear from employees and from you and from others will shape and determine the way forward for the v.a. it will constitute the kind of accountability we had v.a. always want to ensure that veterans always deserve.

last, let me turn to resource issues. in june, acting secretary gibson made a compelling case to congress for the additional funds needed to address our immediate needs. the result is found in the veterans access choice and accountability act of 2014. the act allocates $15 million to the v.a. -- $15 billion to the v.a., $5 billion to hire positions and medical staff and improve infrastructure, and $10 billion to improve infrastructure care while we meet demand. it also authorizes the v.a. to meet 27 facility leases to treat more patients. and it streamlines the removal of senior executives based on poor performance or misconduct. what v.a. needs to do now is institute the operational efficiencies, the cost savings,

the productivity improvements, and the serb -- service innovations. we have to show congress that v.a. can operate with the same level of efficiency, customer service, and financial discipline as the best run companies in america. it is right to change the status quo. for one thing, we need to get back to basics. we need to set the focus on v.a.'s strategic plan. the scripture, so to speak, at the core of all we do. i will be organizing -- reorganizing the department to efficiently use its resources and operate cohesively to deliver the wondering, delivering the best care and services to veterans. part of that means streamlining and redesigning. in other words, ferreting out the bottlenecks in operations that slowdown service and frustrate the veterans. a lot of that change will come

from our people in the field, in our hospitals and clinics. high-performance companies get their very best ideas for improvements and innovations from those closest to the customer, and v.a. can, too. we need to do a better job of forecasting. it is essential for us to reliably predict future demand for services, so we can make good decisions about budgets, about support system, and about people. inadequate forecasting was partly responsible for the severe shortages of personnel at some locations. and so recruiting right now is job one. i intend to be out front and hands-on in an effort. later this week and i will launch our recruiting efforts by speaking to doctors, interns, residents, and students, at duke university's medical school. recruiting for hr. here's how i look at it. i was on an airplane going to

phoenix to visit the v.a. facility there. the gemini mean you i was with the v.a.. -- the gentleman behind me nude that i was with the v.a. he is a 22 year veteran with the air force and is currently a lockheed martin employee. he said, i need to do something about recruiting. his daughter is a lieutenant in the air force and currently going to medical school in washington, d.c. he talked to her about a noble career with the v.a. and she said, dad, haven't you read the newspapers or seen on television what is going on at the v.a.? why would i want to work there? i'm here to tell you i asked for her phone number. i called heard three different times. i'm going to speak at her medical school. the v.a. is a great place to work. i also want to tell you a story

about nancy. nancy is a neurologist in medical school. we met on a plane when i was coming back from memphis. she said, wow, my dream job is to work at the v.a. and she is in school at george washington university medical school and she wants to be a neurologist. i gave her my card and my address. i gave her my coin and said, contact me. i want you to work for the v.a., too. turning to technology, it is an important enabler for us. we need to make the most of it, particularly by expanding the use of visual technology, which will free up doctors and nurses to provide more direct care for patients. we need to create an integrated record system, and you should not see a difference or barrier between dod and v.a. like you, i don't want v.a. to be known just for standard care. i want v.a. to be known as the standard for health care in the

united states. [applause] to help do that, i'm establishing a board of medical professionals comprised of the foremost medical minds in our nation to advise me on the best industry practices. i know i've just laid down a pretty ambitious agenda, however i'm confident that all of this and more can be done. it can be done with the american legion's help and with the support of all of our veteran services, close dialogue and ongoing priorities. i want to hear from you. together, we can move v.a. forward with the urgency that the current situation demands. and with the balance reforms that will ensure v.a. as the private -- provider of choice from maine to manila. testifying before congress last

month, my good friend and our deputy secretary to muslim gibson, portrayed our situation this way when he said -- sloan gibson, portrayed our situation this way when he said, we can address these challenges as a great opportunity in history of v.a. development. i do not deny that we have challenges ahead and they are significant. there's a lot to do, but there is also a lot at stake. in tough times, i've always turned to a favorite saying of mine by winston churchill, "a pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity. an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." you should know, i'm an optimist. i'm a realist. i'm a pragmatist. i have no doubt that with the support of president obama, with the support of congress, with

the support of the veterans service organizations like the american legion and other stakeholders, we can do what needs to be done to restore confidence in the veterans affairs department. i want to thank you for all that you've been doing for a long time. you've been a great friend of the v.a.. i want to thank you and i want to encourage you to continue to give us feedback, continue to tell us what you like and do not like, and to continue to be there for veterans and their families. i look forward to working closely with you as we go forward together. thank you very much. [applause] >> mr. secretary, i would like to thank you very much for taking time out of your schedule to be with us, and also, thank you very much for the steps you've already taken to make

right and put trust back into the stakeholders for our veterans. believe me, sir, we are looking forward to our partnership with you, and you will be hearing from us. >> i know that. thank you very much. >> god bless you. give the secretary a hand, please. [applause] ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> matthew rosenberg was expelled from the bull by the afghan government. he will be at the national press club tomorrow to talk about his experience in the chances that he will return to afghanistan. by the coverage at 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. then two former technology strategists from the obama and romney presidential campaigns talk about how digital innovation changes the way that

campaigns are run. live coverage from george washington university at 4:00 p.m. eastern. next, a discussion about potential terrorist threats to the united states. you hear from national security analyst in this one hour event hosted by the steamboat institute. >> good afternoon. i won the coin toss. whatever it is. i am frank gaffney with the center for security policy and i am delighted to be here with my friend and colleague peter brookes and with all of you. jennifer, thank you very much for including me and this really important topic in your program. i am heartened that you made the point that strong national defense is one of the pillars of this institute. i hope that you all are here because it is for you as well. peter and i divided the labors in terms of explaining what the challenges are to our strong, or not so strong, national defense

posture at the moment. i am going to talk to you principally about something that i am sure just by virtue of the newsworthiness of it is on your mind as well as mine. that is the phenomenon of rising jihadism around the world. notably but not exclusively in syria and iraq under the banner of this organization that goes by varying names. it has been called the islamic state of iraq and the sham, isis, or the islamic state in the levant, isil, or just plain islamic state which suggests they are in a lot of places.

they also fancy themselves the caliphate. i want to start -- i have a powerpoint that i am trusting will work. entitled with homage to an honorary citizen, winston churchill -- "the gathering storm." that was the title of his first book in his series on world war ii. the lead up to that horrific conflagration. i guess i can power through this myself. another brit, samuel johnson, had this to say. i think it applies equally to this. this is, of course, not an isolated incident. what happened to james foley has been happening to thousands of people. at the hands of isis, yes, but at the hands of the jihadists. i want to talk to you about what makes isis a particularly dangerous outfit and then talk

about their friends. i think you are probably all aware of these elements. they are actually folks who have been in the fight for some time, notably in syria. they have acquired at no small measure because of the iraqi military that they confronted when they came across the border into iraq, a very substantial arsenal, including a lot of our gear. they have a terrority which was approximated to the state of kentucky. the this is perhaps the most important of the pieces. they have very substantial resources. some of which they liberated from banks, some which they are getting from oilfields and the

electro sale from dams that they control. not least, as you hear more and more, they are a threat to us because of americans. and others with eu passports operating with them, training with them, getting battle skills of their own and presumably coming then home. not least why these guys are particularly worrying is because, in the words of osama bin laden, they are the strong horse now. that is a very serious problem. i would argue that this is the biggest danger. their ideology or doctrine or program or agenda. call it what you will. that is what they call it -- sharia. sharia, as we will learn, literally in arabic means the path to the water.

there are probably hundreds of millions of muslims around the world, including a great many in this country who do not subscribe to sharia. they don't practice it in their they don't practice it in their own faith tradition, they don't seek to live under it, they don't want to impose it on the rest of us. i would argue for the moment they are not the problem. the problem is the guys who do. let me tell you more about what it is. by some estimates, roughly 10% of this body of laws and dictates have to do with religious practice. which direction you pray, how often, what you wash, what you don't, what you eat, what you don't. how you interact with others. that problem is about 90% have to do with that last bit of interacting with others in a very, very aggressive fashion.

i think it is fair to say by any objective standard sharia, the authoritative practice of sharia under islam is characterized by these qualities -- it is comprehensive, it is totalitarian. it is a comprehensive, specifically political, military, legal program that is meant to govern the entire world. as well as the entire world of an individual. some of the characteristics of this you are probably familiar to. he is just being flogged rather than being amputated. you see this a lot. this young lady has had several things removed as part of the misogyny, the brutal mistreatment of women. others can be killed if they

happen to be homosexuals or women who are of claim to have been unfaithful. this is the one that i want to focus on. it is a supremacist doctrine. it is one that its adherents believes that god has directed them to impose on all the rest of us, preferably through violence because as muhammed's example, him being the perfect muslim, that is the most efficient way to do it. i will come back to the other options. i want to emphasize this point. unfortunately, though we are hearing a lot about the islamic state these days, they are hardly the only adherence to this doctrine who are on the march at the moment. this is a sample, needless to say. i wanted to give you a sense of

the name of these other outfits that have exactly the same program as isis. are practicing it in exactly the same way as isis. you would hear people say no, al qaeda thinks that isis is too ruthless and therefore has banished them. not true. it is like mafia mob having a fight over who will control the racketeering. there is no difference of what al qaeda can do or will do if they have a chance. lest we forget, all of these characters are operating, as you see here, increasingly globally, including the united states. we compound the danger that isis certainly represents.

notwithstanding that, the president in responding to the beheading of an american citizen, james foley, made this statement which i want to just stress to you because it is simply outrageous. he said -- this is an excerpt -- the islamic state speaks for no religion. no faith teaches people to massacre innocents. their ideology is bankrupt. ladies and gentlemen, with all due respect, that is national security fraud. none of those three statements is true. the islamic state believes it is speaking for the faith tradition of shariah, islam, and as i have shown you you can go to those other organizations and you can go to the authorities of islam

-- the university, for example, in cairo. or in other major recognized institutions, including a number of them in this country, and you'll see exactly the same basic teachings. where in fact the slaughter of infidels is not only permissible in the koran, it is mandatory. not throughout but in the operative passages which are those that came at the end of muhammed's life because shariah is based upon one principle in particular called the principle of abrogation. what came last governs.

as you may know, the arc of his life went from the period in which he was in mecca and receiving direction from allah through relevations that were teaching people to be tolerant and respectful of people in the book, christians and jews. it was at that point that he had no power and not much ability to do anything else. you saw a tactical approach that was accommodationist. he was driven out and went to medina and became rich and powerful and a leader of an army. the revelations from allah were all about destroying the people of the book, most especially the jews. and other infidels. as to the question whether this ideology is bankrupt, let me share with you how these guys are doing it.

in addition to what i showed you, where they are operating -- here. you can argue it is listed as here. these are the sort of things our government has done to help a number of these jihadist groups. running the gamut from enlisting them, engaging them in some sectarian struggles in places like syria to arming and training them and fighting for them in places like libya. and embracing them right here in the united states in the case of the muslim brotherhood. i want to dwell on that for a moment but before i do, let me share with you this photograph because it came up in lynn cheney's remarks. the illegal release of these five jihadist leaders, the guys on the lower band are counterparts.

these are not your run of the mill jihadists. these are top combatants. in what i call the war for the free world. turning them loose even to qatar or more broadly which is coming, i believe it is an enormous aid to the enemy. then there is this -- i think you probably picked up on this -- james o'keefe, a character, crossing the rio grande in osama bin laden's get-up. as you know, the insecure border is enabling people who are the real deal to come across, not just children or people seeking employment, but people seeking to take advantage of the opportunity to bring the jihads here.

i want to close a little bit with these guys because this is another form of threat that we almost always miss as we focus on the shiny, dangling object of these violent jihadists. they are the scary guys. they are the guys that are actually killing people. there is no question they want our destruction as well. we do have on sale here a copy of this book called "shariah -- the threat to america." in the appendix to this book which was also published as a separate book which you can get for free at securefreedom.org is an explanatory memorandum, the

strategic plan of the muslim brotherhood in north america dated 1991 and then delivered into our hands and used to great effect in the largest terrorism financing trial in american history, the holy land foundation trial. this document said this as its mission statement -- the muslim brotherhood is engaged in a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying western civilization from within. by their hands, meaning yours, my friends and the rest of us. as well as the believers so that western civilization is eliminated and god's religion is triumphant over all others. so, how does that work exactly?

remember i just said muhammed had a tactical adjustment during a time where he was not powerful. this is basically the same deal. when you're not strong enough to actually use violence decisively in a nation like ours, you use this civilization jihad. these are examples of the kinds of civilization jihadist techniques that are operating all around us. if you start looking for them, you will find evidence. in academia. in the media. in our financial system. shariah-compliant finance. in our courts, not least, in our government. we address it at length in a course that is available for free online. the last part, 10 parts, video-based training talks about what we can do about all of this.

i will close with that. three things in particular. michele bachmann sadly leaving congress shortly but a great leader on these issues has just introduced the legislation that would designate the muslim brotherhood what it is -- a terrorist organization. at the moment in this country, engaged in the civilization kind of jihad, sedition, subversion. it is nonetheless overseas and here engaged in the same and jihadist enterprise as isis. we need to designate them and i hope we will get that legislation enacted. here in colorado and other states, we could use your help as well. i mentioned the courts were another place where the civilization jihadists are

trying insinuate shariah. it is indicating that in dozens of states around the united states, you are seeing what you are seeing which is the effort to insinuate this foreign law that is profoundly anti-constitutional, most especially for women and children into our court system. one quick example -- in new jersey a couple of years back, a state judge was appealed to by a moroccan-born, american-naturalized citizen woman seeking a protective order against her husband because he was systematically torturing and raping her. the judge declined to give her that protective order because he could find no evidence of criminal intent. the man was simply following his rights under sharia. fortunately, overturned on appeal, but this law which basically prevents any foreign

law, not sharia, any for law being used in the courts of a given state is, if they violate america's constitutional rights, is now on the books in seven states and was in the gop platform last year. we think it should be in every state. i don't have time to develop this at any length but another book that is available to you addresses a problem that is of surpassing concern to me and i hope we can talk a little bit about this when peter is done. the single most effective way that the islamists and for that matter, other enemies of this country, could take us out is by exploiting a vulnerability that has become increasingly evident namely the lack of resiliency of our electric grid. the electric grid which powers all of the other critical infrastructure of this country.

without which none of it works and without which none of us work or probably live for that matter. one estimate is of the power goes out for over a year, nine out of 10 of us will die. this book is a compilation of 11 different studies that has been done by the united states government. it gives you the flavor of it. whether they looking at physical assault of the grid or cyberattacks against the grid or something that could be very efficient in taking it down -- detonating a nuclear weapon in space over united states unleashing an electric magnetic pulse. or even if those terrible things don't happen, despite the fact that enemies of this country

have that in mind for us, even if none of those events take place, you will find the sun creating very similar conditions to that nuclear detonation in space. every 150 years, we get whacked with an event of enormous electromagnetic energy as a result of a solar flare. i am sorry to tell you the last time that happened was 155 years ago. the good news is as the last point to make clear we know how to fix the vulnerabilities we have. we just need your help in getting that done before one or another bad thing happens. with this cheery introduction, i will turn over the rest of the program to peter who will give you some of the really bad news. thank you very much for your attention. i look forward to your questions. [applause]

>> good afternoon. that certainly was frightening but thank you very much for sharing that with us. i want to thank jennifer for having me here. i have to think my repeated appearances here is a vibrant example of the phrase "hope over experience." i think we need to face this square on so i will talk about some of the other things and talk about what he talked about it in greater depth. i think to be an understatement if you are following the news that the world is unsettled. worse, the threats to u.s. interests and our security are growing. one could reasonably argue that the world is more dangerous today than at any time in the

generation. if we are complacent about these threats, we could pay a very big price. let me tell you about my major concerns. i will talk a little more about isis. everybody knows who that is -- the islamic state. we are not dealing with a terrorist group. we are dealing with a terrorist army. we are talking about 10,000 to 15,000 committed jihadists working together for a singular cause. i was reading today that number may be small considering the successes they have had recently in iraq. they are drawing more people in. there are thousands of these who are classified as foreign fighters, people from outside of iraq or syria.

i have seen numbers and it is very hard to figure this out that there are foreign fighters with isis from as many as 50 to 70 countries around the world. there is roughly between 190 to 200 countries or states in the world today. in fact, you can say with this isis group, there are more terrorists in any one place at any one time than we have ever seen before and that includes pre-9/11 afghanistan. that is frightening stuff. they have taken a large swath of land which includes iraq and syria. they've established the muslim state, the caliphate. they have left the trail of death, destruction, and depravity in their wake.

these guys are so bad that al qaeda has disavowed them. can you believe that? we are talking about almost 13 years ago. that is how bad this group is. it has america in its crosshairs. the press has reported recently and people have been talking about for quite some time that isis has been, has training camps in iraq and syria. their headquarters and capital is in syria. they have been establishing training camps, not only did teach the terrorist arts of those who will fight for the syrian regime or the iraqi government, but also to train foreign fighters to return to their native lands to undertake acts of terror at some point.

recently, about a week ago, an unnamed u.s. intelligence official -- i believe this article was in "the washington post" -- said that they believe isis is trying to establish cells in europe to undertake terrorist attacks and potentially the united states. if you hear what the u.s. government is saying publicly, you can imagine there is probably a lot of other stuff they are not saying because of intelligence sources and methods. isis has said they plan to raise al qaeda's flag over the white house. i think we need to take them for their word. of course, syria is part of this problem. in my opinion, syria today is the epicenter of the violent islamist movement of the world today. no question about it. tens of thousands of committed individuals have gone there. it is a magnet for terrorist wannabes.

the fbi said publicly they are tracking at least 100 americans who have gone to syria and perhaps iraq to fight. that has been already at least one american suicide bomber in syria. the brits will tell you because they are very concerned about the individual that undertook the act against the american journalist. they are following at least 400 british citizens would've gone to syria. they cannot tell because people do not go get their passports stamped and return home. they go to jordan or turkey. and that they enter syria. there are 3000 europeans that havew gone to syria and iraq to fight. there are many across the globe. when you think about europe, think about the fact that many of those people have passports

and are able to come back to europe and then travel to the united states after that. syria has been involved in a terrible situation for many years -- three plus years of civil war, 150,000 people have died. the home of isis is there as well as other hardened al qaeda groups. there is another group. they were most recently infamous for the fact they were -- you remember this a couple of weeks ago, they were talking about if you are coming out of europe, you had to turn on your cell phone or computer before boarding a plane -- we forget about the terrorist plot that never happened. it may surprise you to know there has been as many as 60 terrorist plots against the united states since 9/11. a few of those have been successful. they are terrible things. these terrorists have been able to bring these things to fruition. we have the boston bombers, couple of recruiters killed by islamists in arkansas.

we had that one spark away from setting off an suv in times square. there have been 60. some people were told you had to turn off your cell phone or computer because what was going on -- that al qaeda was in the arabian peninsula and planning to put explosives inside a cell phone or inside a computer to put it on an aircraft bound to the united states and blow it up. i don't know if that threat has been lifted. that is what we are dealing with. it is this group that they are dealing with in syria. they were going to be the operatives. the massive bomb maker is in yemen. i will talk about him now. he is the underwear bomber guy.

a second plot where we actually penetrated al qaeda and the arabian peninsula and walked off with the device before it could be used. this is the group of a bomber that was involved in the surgically implantation of explosives into human beings. in fact, i don't know if this is true, the story is that a syrian planted a bomb inside of his brother, send him to saudi arabia, he met with a saudi prince and was meant to kill him in a suicide bombing. his brother died in the bombing and i believe two bodyguards but the prince was not killed. this has happened already. this is what we're up against.

also syria, people forget about iran is syria's best ally. hezbollah is also fighting there to protect the regime in damascus. there is no end to this conflict. it will continue to serve as a terrorist training ground for some time to come. some of these terrorists at some point may decide not to stay in the caliphate and return home. who knows what they will do then? we talked a little bit about iran. they're fighting in both iraq and syria. there are operatives involved in the fight today. they're nervous about what is going on because it is a sunni group. iran is a persian country. iran's rise will be curtailed by

the loss of an ally in damascus or a loss of ally in baghdad. these two fights are must wins. iran has ambitions in that part of the world and these two countries as well as others are key to that. unfortunately, iran's nuclear program has been little slowed. maybe the centrifuges are not being used as much but they have compiled enough uranium to turn it into a higher-grade uranium. while these negotiations are going on, iran has time to work on its weaponization of this material. it has time to perfect delivery vehicles. the u.s. government publicly has not moved off the fact that they said a few years ago that iran will have a missile capable of reaching the united states by

2015. that is next year. they can put a satellite into space. they probably have been helping the north koreans do that as well because they followed iran and that capability. all of you are probably too young to remember because you probably read it in e-book. sputnik, 1957. when the soviets put that little satellite into space we were very unhappy about that. it was a public relations disaster for the united states as the soviets had bested us scientifically and technically. in the balance of the pentagon, the dr. strangelove there, really concerned. they knew if you could put a satellite into space and a significant payload into space or orbit, you can put a warhead anywhere. the soviets actually beat us in the race. same thing here.

iranians started out with the peaceful satellite program and eventually, if they wish to, develop an intercontinental ballistic missile program. the intelligence community believes that maybe soon as next year. afghanistan -- another thing we have in them talking about but as you know, there are 30,000 americans fighting there. i worry -- what i really worry is what we're seeing in iraq is what we will see in afghanistan in the coming years. i didn't talk a lot about iraq but it has not gone well since u.s. forces left at the end of 2011. i worry that is what we will see in afghanistan. we are reducing the troops. they will be totally gone. we may have an interim force. we are waiting for new president to get on board and have some

political problems with vote counting and everything. we are looking for a bilateral security agreement which we never achieved with iraq which is why the forces left at one time. if we do not get that, we will not have any forces. if we stay, the president is looking at 10,000 troops but they will be all be gone by 2016 regardless of the conditions on the ground. unfortunately, we think about as we draw down the afghan forces will stand up. we are drawing down, afghan forces are standing up but violence is also up. we are dealing with some really tough actors.

we are talking about not only al qaeda, but the taliban and also the network which is probably the most active and difficult insurgents we are dealing with. my view is if afghanistan could return to its pre-9/11 state, that is a place where terrorists can plan, train, and operate and that is not good news for us. they can unsettle the pakistani government. pakistan, we haven't heard much about them lately either. pakistan is a country with a nuclear arsenal of more than 100 million nuclear weapons. we know some of these groups like al qaeda would like to get their hands on some of those nuclear weapons and there has been some concern about their arsenal. i am not in the circles where they are talking about these things but i know there has been

tremendous amount of concern in the last thing we want to see is have al qaeda or anyone else get their hands on a nuclear weapon. frank covered this stuff but i think the al qaeda or offshoot of them or affiliate, that threat is growing. i talked about al qaeda in the arabian peninsula in yemen. up until isis gained prominence, i would say that they were the most dangerous group we faced. i mentioned some other plots -- the underwear plot, the printer cartridges, they have the best bomb maker. we have libya, tunisia. and they were responsible for what happened in benghazi. nigeria, we heard about them in the terrible kidnapping of these young schoolgirls. they are also involved in a lot

of terrorist acts against the government. somalia. another group we are particularly worried about because the fbi will tell you that the number of somali-americans have gone there to fight. there has been a long-standing concern about will they return to the united states and will we know if they have gone and be able to do something about it if we need to? many of these groups are working together, especially the ones in africa. another concern is that each one of these groups will try to outdo each other in a drive to gather more foot soldiers, funds, and publicity. isis is the most high visibility terrorist group out there now. will you see funding go that way, foot soldiers go that way. these other groups who also have

agendas will want to steal some of that away from them so there will be some rivalry and they may do some things that they won't try before to bring that publicity in their direction. another thought, the idea that their activities, these terrorist group activities like the ones i mentioned -- they are happening very far away. people say it is just a regional thing. that can change in one moment. that can go from just something in dealing with the country you are dealing with, the government to becoming a transnational or international terrorist threat, including targeting the united states. russia is on a roll, isn't it? took crimea this year. wasn't much of a response. it is supporting insurgency in eastern ukraine today. it sent what they are calling aid trucks across the border into ukraine. ukrainian government is basically saying it is an

invasion. the military trucks have been painted gray and they were not escorted by the international committee of the red cross. who knows what is in those trucks because they have not been inspected. russia also has as many as 40,000 troops, combat ready troops across the border from ukraine it can certainly go in at any time they want. is a much more capable force them ukrainian army. frank would be the person to talk about this -- the u.s. government has come out and said russia is violating the treaty. a regan treaty you probably worked on. it is about forces in europe and now we find out that russia, we believe, russia has violated that treaty, that arms control treaty. they have been threatening nato allies in recent years. russian president vladimir putin plans to restore his russia's cold war era power and prowess in my estimation and it is something we should be very concerned about. in asia, north korea. we have a new, young and

enigmatic leader. he is not the reformer we thought he may be. he is turning out to be quite hard-line. my concern is that he wants to make his mark on the world. he doesn't have the credentials that has grandfather has. it was somebody who was involved in the korean war or his father kim jong-il who had held the reins of power for many years under his father. this is the grandson. he doesn't feel like he has the credentials, the chops with the military, with the korean workers party to perhaps hold that party so he has been involved with a lot of purges. the concern is you may be involved in a misperception or mistake that could lead to some serious consequences on the korean peninsula.

he has an increasingly robust nuclear weapons program. north korea has said three nuclear attempts. there is rumor of a fourth test but it hasn't happened yet. last year, he was able to put a satellite into space harking back to what i was talking about with iran. we believe north korea has the capability to put it into the convention until ballistics somewhere on the west coast of the united states. at some point in the future, it could become more accurate and have a longer range. it will be even a greater threat to us. let me talk about china lastly. i am getting the hook here. there is so much to talk about. beyond the united states, or he has the potential to shape this entry more than china. any of you keeping up on the

news, you know that. china is increasingly powerful whether you are talking militarily, politically, or economically. in my opinion, china would like to replace the united states in the pacific, if not globally. i think it is taking steps to do that. it has already thrown its weight around increasingly in territorial disputes in the east and south china seas with u.s. allies -- the philippines and japan. many china analysts believe they are testing american result in the pacific. unfortunately, this perception and miscalculations could lead to dire consequences. i think as china's confidence grows, the rivalry will only intensify with the united states. bottom line -- we are living in an increasingly dangerous world where u.s. interests face growing threats.

is my view that a failure to proactively rise to the challenges with international leadership, diplomatic resolve, economic vitality and military strength could mean some very dark days ahead. fortunately, that choice is ours. thank you very much. [applause] >> i think we were supposed to move this. is that possible? we have a few minutes of time for questions. i went much longer than i was supposed to. we will take any questions we have time for. is there a microphone somewhere in the back? great. >> [indiscernible] can you hear me now? one of the things that surprised

me since 9/11, and i thought we would be vulnerable to it, would be individual bombing attacks in lots of areas like we saw in the mideast and southeast asia. how, we have avoided that here or is a factor that it is a plan for later on on a much grander scale? >> it is a great question. the issue, in part as peter said, they have actually been trying to do attacks. fortunately, it has been good work on the part of our first lines of defense to prevent that from happening. some places, we have been bloody lucky. i happen to think another thing

is at work and it goes back to that arc i talked about of mohammed's life and the model that the muslim brotherhood follows. i think there is a very strong sense on the part of those in the brotherhood's apparatuses in this country. there are scores, if not hundreds of them by the way. almost every muslim american organization that you hear about, notably outfits like the council of american islamic relations or the islamic society of north america, are muslim brotherhood front organizations. i think their view is do not engage in those acts of violence. it is premature. it up only anger the americans and make our job more difficult.

i think that is at work with some. not suspect peter would agree with me -- we are on borrowed time. the more we indulge this kind of behavior, the more we leave the borders porous. the more we signal weakness. the sharia interpretation of that behavior is the time has come to go violent, to make them feel subdued. >> i have a question for each of our speakers. frank, this is a question a response to what you said about some of the muslim brotherhood's actions to get into american culture. you talked about interfaith conversations. is that something that should be resisted and how can that message to be delivered to our clergy? the other question is for peter. one of the major groups that you omitted from your discussion was talking about what is going on in israel.

the big client of iran, hamas, has distracted attention away from the iranian nuclear program and a lot of people that are interested in israeli politics believe that was the goal of that. is that something you believe is well? >> i think that was a good point. i couldn't talk about everything. very disturbed by the fact that we had a friendly state in israel fighting a terrorist group today. that is something that we could see down the road won't be talk about isis. terrorist groups taking on states.

my interpretation of what hamas did was an act of desperation. they have been a complete failure in the gaza strip and unfortunately the palestinian people are being held hostage to their inability to govern and their policies. this is obviously something we need to be concerned about. hamas has fallen out with the government in damascus, the syrian government who has been a strong supporter of them because they are actually siding with the violent islamists in syria. even egypt has closed the crossings because of those concerns. i cannot speak for the government is israel but my interpretation is humanitarian issues -- the concern is that weapons will come in. we have seen these large number of rockets fired into israel which the iron dome missile defense system, something we should be thinking about when i

talk about icbms, work tremendously. those rockets were fired indiscriminately at civilian targets. it was only because of the capabilities of those systems that the u.s. helped with that israel was able to stay protected. it was such a lopsided military engagement. yes, hamas is a major problem and a friend of iran. my cents and was an act of desperation because hamas having lost the muslim brotherhood in egypt did it as an act of desperation but there are many different interpretations. >> i will leave you with one thought about sharia it would be that this really is about power, not about faith. the problem for the faith community in this country is

they are being encouraged to believe it is the other way around or the power has nothing to do about it, it is just about faith. it is really seductive. you know the old line in world war ii when they came for the socialists, i did nothing. when they came for me, there was nobody left. the faith community here, many of them, has been encouraged to believe that unless they stand up for their muslim counterparts though there will be a repression of freedom of religion more broadly. you have, i think, innocently many pastors, priests, rabbis, what have you offering unbelievable opportunities for influence operations to imams who are, again, not all of them but mostly the ones were working this particular line of the

civilization jihad deeply imbued with the sharia agenda. this happened in the vatican back in june or july. one of the first things they do is they go into some prayer incantation in arabic which consecrates the space they are in to allah and sets a series of reclamation's against the infidels. the main thing is this. if, again, the people of faith provide helping to provide what amounts to cover for these islamists it will be just one more successful inroads that they are making in keeping us witless about what they are up to and therefore much less capable of defending ourselves

against them. thank you for the question. >> is this on? this is a basic question. if you were going to prepare for being off the grid, what books would you recommend? what websites would you recommend? what quick tips? >> i am for being prepared and for people being self-reliant and responsible. don't get me wrong. i'm just here to tell you that unless you perhaps live out here and have access to fresh water and means of growing food, it is unlikely you will be able to persist very long without help coming from someplace else. think about this. if the kind of devastation that we saw with katrina or with

hurricane sandy had not been localized, they were over fairly wide areas but it was fairly localized in the rest of the country was intact and able to come to the help of the people who were a foot did -- afflicted, a lot more people would have made it. that's my concern about this. if i can leave you with one other thought on this grid issue, take a look at this book. it is the vulnerabilities of the grid that the government knows about but refuses to fix. you will be moved to do the single most important thing that

i can recommend and that is to get ahold of people who can do something about this vulnerability to fix it now. we don't have to talk about what we would do to survive when it's too late. we have a chance, i think, to make changes. i mention some legislation working its way slowly through congress. your electric grid operators, many of you are probably investors and companies that if they are not actually electric utilities they are big users of electricity. many are on boards of directors. maybe their neighbors of yours

are boards of directors. think of ways in which you can help. there's a lot of information available at securethegrid.com to give you more information for this but the name of the game to answer your question is let's stop this disaster from happening rather than try to cope with it after. >> this is a very serious threat. one thing frank was not able to get into is where the threat comes from. there is a concern about cyber terrorism. we have three electric grids and the united states. we know the terrorists have looked at this issue but also nationstates. it's been widely reported that both russia and china have mapped the u.s. electrical grid. if there were ever a dustup over territory or war, you would expect they would try to shut off the lights. this is a very serious national security issue. i wish we could have gotten into it but ciber is a huge threat whether it is warfare, espionage, or the potential for

cyber terrorism that could target the grid, the financial system, etc. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] discussing the influx of immigration children and the ability to deal with it. then congressional budget office director douglas elmendorf will talk to reporters about the release of the cbo budget outlook for the next 10 years. live coverage at 11:00 a.m. eastern. earlier this year, conservative groups alleged irs groups were targeting them and called on congress to investigate. house committees brought and irs officials to testify including lois lerner who pled the fifth and was held in contempt of congress. theght, a special look at irs targeting investigation. our issues spotlighting program

includes house floor debates. we begin with representatives from conservative groups who were targeted by the irs over their tax exempt status. then lois lerner takes the fifth at a committee hearing. followed by a house floor debate in contempt of congress against her. later, irs commissioner john n onin and -- koskine missing e-mails. our issues spotlighting begins the tea party and other conservative groups. in february, founders of the king street patriots, and alabama tea party, testified at a hearing than they were targeted by the irs after filing for tax exempt status. this portion of the hearing is about one hour. g. my name is catherine. a nonprofitrman of

organization. thank you for the opportunity to share my story. citizens just like me are being targeted right administration willing to take any action necessary to silence opposition. i am an average american who prior to 2009 had never been active in the processes of government. ition. i am an average american who prior to 2009 had never been active in the processes of government. volunteering to work in the polls in 2009, i saw procedural problems. that grew into a national movement. before getting involved

and spoke out for the government stands in contrast to the life i now lead. person,ll business participating in my church, the government collected my taxes and left me and my family. myself a target of this federal government. after filing forms to establish tax-exempt organizations, an assortment of entities including law enforcement agencies and congressman cummings came knocking on my door. -- twodecades might decades, my husband and i had never been audited were investigated. submitteded after we

nonprofit applications. my family and i have been subjected to more than 15 instances of audit or inquiry from federal agencies. business was subject to inspection by osha. the fbi contacted my nonprofit organization on six separate organization -- instances. a dropdead -- they dropped all there isnd redacted --

no other remarkable event. there is no other reason to explain how, for decades, i went unnoticed that now find myself on the receiving end of interagency coordination against my life. mind these events were occurring while the irs was subjecting me to old full rounds -- questions about my political aspirations. demands to know groups i had spoken to. the answers to these kinds of questions are not of interest to the typical analyst but are of interest to a political machine. the government attacked me because of my political beliefs, but i refused to be cast as a victim. irs, or any other

agency of victim has no options. as an american citizen, i still believe in freedom of speech. i will continue to speak out across this country. i will continue to press in every legal way possible as i did by filing suit against the irs. no american citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people. after all the tyranny and things that have been done to my organization and my family, many people have quit. i have heard over and over that people are afraid to tell their stories.

my experience has made me more to say, i than ever will not retreat. you on behalffore of americans just like me asking for a solution to and this ugly chapter -- two ended this ugly chapter. chapter. this ugly it will effectively codify into law the things that -- nonprofit organizations across the country will be destroyed.

no american regardless of their political affiliation should support the silencing of political speech. you to pass a law that protects all citizens of this country. that exposes government officials who trample on the rights of ordinary citizen. don't allow them to cower behind the veil of secrecy. send the president a bill that alls public at the -- communications between government agencies. no selectively released files. give us a transparent process. protect the people. restore liberty to the people. we will not be silent. thank you for its opportunity. >> thank you.

god bless you. we appreciate you being here today. i would like to enter into the room record -- into the record 80 letter we sent to the new commissioner of the irs. we highlight some of the things you reference in your testimony. preparedrule was being before the court came into existence. how lois lerner was involved in putting the rule together. i would ask for permission to enter into the -- inter-this into the record. you are not recognized. >> thank you. i am a practicing attorney. i deal with the irs and have felt with them on a daily basis for many years. i help people obtain the tax exempt status to fit their

activities within the tax code. make three primary points. i will be happy to answer questions at the appropriate time. the scandal israel. -- is real. it is not pretend. the irs scandal is not just a boneheaded bunch of bureaucrats, contrary to what the american president will be people. -- told the people./ it is not over. the department of justice investigation is a sham. it is a nonexistent investigation. the me tell you in one sentence what the irs scandal is. direction ofe political elites in washington,

not in cincinnati but ashington, took what had been process of reviewing applications for exempt status. the converted that process into one that took 3-4 years. and in some cases is still not over. the line agents in the irs had their work disrupted by halted by walsh and in -- washington. he filed an application for c three that this and did not obtain it until we checked with the irs -- sued the iris. -- irs. agentsis lerner accused

in cincinnati of being responsible, that is a lie. i knew when lois lerner said 2010, shey of admitted it was happening, after we knew it was happening -- we knew we were targeted. she finally admitted it. i knew it had not happened in cincinnati because the first time i became aware of it, we filed for tax exempt status of october, 2000 nine. besides catching our check, we did not hear for the ire -- besides catching our check -- check, weshing our did not hear from washington. n organization a

is allowed to spend its money doing. we did not get tax-exempt status for that organization until july of 2013. when i took on the representation of catherine and her organizations, this is a year after she had sent her application to the irs, and had heard nothing -- when i talked to the assigned agent in are going, saying we to supplement the application to help make it easier for you to process, he told me at the time, there's a task force in washington the writ we can do anything. this scandal is not over. the line has not stopped. -- the lying has not stopped. i represent one group who still does not have their c4 status.

there are lies upon lies in this ugly episode be read commission are lied to congress. i believe it was this committee, in march of 2012, when he said it was no targeting. how many communications from the irs to members of congress, who inquired about the status, whether there was targeting, how many communications were there? in which agents of the irs told congress that there was no targeting? those are lies. lying to congress is a crime. department of justice has refused to investigate who was responsible for releasing the confidential tax information of coke industries to the president industries to the president. we sued the irs to try to get to

the bottom of why tax information was made available. where was the fbi? that is a criminal offense. it's a criminal offense to have also come up the irs, to release the confidential donor information. and the republican governor's council.licy that is a criminal offense. it is a felony to lie to a federal agency. yet, the irs on the day after thanksgiving, and proposing these regulations, the agent who transmitted those proposed regulations in the formal publication said, there are no related documents. that is what it says on the website. none. yet i have submitted a request behalf of the tea party

patriots. they said we cannot get you those documents until april. the public comment time closes. there are no documents but it will take them until april to get them to us. that is a lie. they lied when they transmitted those regulations and said the purpose of the regulations -- there are too many lies, mr. chairman. it is time to get the truth. have the fbi investigate the criminal acts. thank you. >> thank you. thank you so much for inviting me here to speak. i can tell you how much i appreciate you hearing this -- holding this hearing. i am inabsolute --

absolute grief for my country. we outlined our cases about the abuse. we learned details about the irs leaking out potential donor information. when proven, this is a felony. we learned of constitutional violations. witnessed violations of the internal revenue code. lois lerner lied to the american people, blaming the people on a few rogue agents knowing well irs the targeting involved offices across the country including her own office in washington dc. lois lerner to be fit for a reason. fifth -- took the fifth for a reason. yet no one has been brought to

justice. because of that, i have to ask, how many people in congress are taking this seriously? stillmy last testimony, i have not been contacted by the fbi. the fbi told the wall street journal no one would be charged with a crime read but they have not even interviewed the witnesses. are you going to let them get away with this? again.say this my government has forgotten its place. it appears that many in washington fear regular citizens standing up for constitutional limited government. consideredica is it a threat to study the founding documents and advocate for responsible spending? why is giving out copies of the constitution, discussing pending legislation, or creating legislative scores cards a threat? these activities are viewed as subversive. otherwise they would not have tried to stop us to read in my previous testimony, i ask

playing my application was accurate. we qualified for status. but that did not stop them from committing information they were not entitled to. the information he demanded from us had nothing to do with our text this. why must the irs know who is coming to our meetings? why did they need to have copies of every speech ever given? whether they need to know who our donors were? there is clearly something wrong with this. the targeting of the tea party and other groups is disturbing. i am offended that a member of congress -- senate would continue with -- can usually -- that continually request they go after americans like me.

governments of third world nations intimidate and harass dissenting citizens. it does not happen in the land of the free until recently. .t is shocking and infuriating most troubling of all, congress has not stopped this. it has gotten worse. during the past eight months, congress had set -- has sat by well the irs attempts to shut us down completely. one of the most sacred rights is freedom of speech. to irs wants to strike out 26 years of history with a keystroke. there not allowed to use words oppose, vote, defeat, or reject. we are not allowed to mention on our website even the name of a

candidate who is running 30 days before a primary or 60 days.before a general election . we are not allowed to mention the name of a political party. no more voter registration drives. no more nonpartisan get out the vote rise. no more creating voter guides. we can't even host candidates for debate or forums. our officers and leaders cannot speak about incumbents, legislation, and voting records without jeopardizing our text at this. does this sound like the land of the free? the political targeting carried out by the irs as a fundamental transformation of the america we all grew up in. i'm not here as a victim. i refuse to be a victim. i am a born free american woman. these abuses of power put all americans liberties at risk.

history shows unaddressed abuses of power lead to greater abuses of power.i am looking to you to restore the faith you do represent. we implore you to use the full force of the law to stop the abuses immediately and bring to justice all those who carried the orders out. i want the federal government to know and the irs to know that you will not divide us. you will not conquer us. we will not be silenced. >>.thank you >. >> distinguished members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the american center for law and justice, thank you for allowing me to participate to redirect participate. i represent 41 organizations.

my first job was in the office of chief counsel for the irs. i am proud of that heritage in my legal career. i'm disappointed in what the irs is doing today, i have prepared comments. i would like those to be part of the record. 88 because of a -- i'm going to deviate from those because of a revelation. informationve you about the progressive groups versus the conservative groups. these are the irs statistics. 104 conservative organizations were targeted. they were asked 1500 questions. the average question per group was 15. that did not include -- 48 were an approval rating of

46%. some progressive groups got cut up in the dragnet because of the names. they were asked a total of 33 questions. seven of them were approved. that is 100%. this was not an equal opportunity discrimination to read this was targeted that discrimination coming from the irs. viewt to address that our is the determination came from the highest ranks of the irs. was brought to the public's attention that an e-mail had been sent by lois lerner, the former head of tax exempt. she pled the fifth amendment. based on the evidence, if i was her lawyer, i would have told theto cd fifth -- to plead fifth.

in e-mail was sent to janine associate chief counsel of the irs tax exempt organization. they went to victoria, division counsel, tax exempt and government entities division. what was the e-mail? off plan we will work to devise were girls -- devise rules. off plan. that is very different from saying two rogue agents in cincinnati. if i was lois lerner's attorney, i would've told her to plead the fifth amendment.

we have 41 clients. i was contacted by the u.s. department of justice. requested that they might want to, after the first of the year, interview three of the clients. they said they would get back to us after the first of the year. they did be read about the same day they got back with us, the announcement about ms. wasserman's lyrical contributions was made public. that was followed up by a statement in the washington journal that there was no criminal investigation. test with dealing with the fbi is a former assistant u.s. attorney. if there is no criminal investigation, what you need to speak to our? clients they said they would not discuss the investigation. the next question, which is a fbi in desiring to speak with our client, we

issed the concern of -- it not because of her capabilities as a lawyer. she's a career lawyer. cited in it -- you ethics rule. the obligation is not on the department of justice. it is on the lawyer. the lawyer has to avoid the appearance of impropriety. theou are heading up investigation? we are assuming she is. up if thehead it public thinks there is a potential for bias. it was very simple for the department of justice to solve this. they didn't have to ask her political position. she had the affirmative obligation to tell her supervisor, i could be compromised and it would be best if someone from public corruption take a look. saying that for the record are clear on we

the evidence. >> she could have said that. hunch. my >> i don't want to impugn her integrity. i don't think it is fair to do that. she did have the obligation to read let me say this. the irs attempted now to change falls onto systematic problems. you don't get to change the justification of your prior bad and illegal conduct. number two, remember that the acting commissioner proposed a scenario where he would do a self certification if they would thancertified -- no more 40% of their activity was deemed political. my clients did not exercise that. if some client of some lawyer did that, because there were more than 300 groups, how would

you like to be the lawyer that told their clients to exercise the 40% rule and then nine weeks later, virus said they had just changed the definition of poor collectivity. you don't get to change your rules in the middle of the game to justify your bad behavior. >> i recognize the vice chair of the committee. >> thanks to the witnesses. this targeting issue is concerning. the government, human nature, people are apt to abuse their power. what is even more concerning for me is once you have an admission of that, somebody taking the fifth amendment, there is a zero interest in rectifying this. what the irs and fbi have done. it is a total sham. the american people are not getting answers.

you mention this in your statement -- you had 20 years in business and zero issues with agencies. you are visited by how many different agencies after starting organization? >> the fbi. the irs. >> atf. osha . >> a texas branch of the epa. >> you mentioned you will keep fighting. i see that. when you have to deal with this, you have a business and other things. you are trying to impact the country and a positive direction. when you deal with these agencies, it makes you less effective in pursuing your message >>. am i right in saying that? >> it gives one pause. to think there is interagency collusion against private citizens. people similarly

situated may look at what happened to people who speak out and say, i don't want to deal with that. i will remain silent. in other words, this type of targeting can chill political speech? >> that is absolutely the case. >> what was the irs asking you to provide? these were very invasive and intrusive questions. >> they sent me a list of 80 questions. any page document. some of -- an eight page document. i wanted to know volunteers names. disclosed --r has a lot of times it is not kept confidential. >> they wanted to have copies of every speech ever given. credentials of who the speakers were. orany of our members

volunteers were going to run for office. if so, what office. this was the 2012 election cycle. know anyed to communications i had had with any legislative body. even within my own representatives. he e-mails, phone contact. what i was saying to my legislators. a lot of people getting involved in politics for the first time, you're seeing all these questions. do some people look at that and say, i don't want to have to deal with that? it caused people to silence the bill? group in alabama who got their letter and said, we are not going to do this. they stopped. that agree with the idea they were targeting everybody, liberal groups as well? that is false in your judgment? >> it is false.

the records do not substantiate it. that is one of the things people have been using to discredit or thwart the investigation. i will give you one example. there was a report released by -- published in usa today. an interim document that listed at 62 organizations that were on the watchlist. at the irs. the number that was calculated was 83% were conservative. this is a document prepared in november, 2011. k street patriots is listed on their. -- there. it says, likely approval. list is one of the few liberal groups, progress texas. references in the comments that this is an organization that appears to engage in anti-rick

perry propaganda. fast forward. gets tax-exempt status by may of 2012. quinstreet patriots -- king street patriots did not get tax-exempt that is until two months ago. with the administration is trying to do with the c4, is it safe to say if that is in effect, that would disproportionately affect conservative groups? a lot of the labor unions and environmental groups would not be affected? >> a lot of those are exempt under different provisions. in that regard, and with regard to the questioning aspect, any chilling effect, we have a a pro-life organization that is one of the ones targeted. the questions were so draconian,

this is what they asked. this is the irs. the presentation of viewpoints unsupported by facts is a significant part of their medications -- communications. this is coming from and i rs agent.- from an irs the approach used in the organization's presentation is not used at developing an understanding because it does not consider their background or training. authorityhe irs the to say this? how is it that the president can say there is not a smidgen of corruption when he documents -- some of these are signed by lois lerner -- how could they possibly say this? the thing i don't understand is

as the president was making his statements, as members of the committee were making statements, we had the documents in our possession from offices all over the country, coached to coast -- coast to coast. with the e-mail that was released, we know how high up the chain to read i would urge the committee, when you talk about associate chief counsel, divisional councils, this is as high as it gets. thank you, mr. chairman. i am deeply troubled regarding irs employees and proper handling of tax exempt status. i am encouraged that senior leadership has been removed. in december, the senate confirmed a new commissioner. he has pledged his cooperation congress. i will look forward to working with him.

ile i look forward to hearing the concerns ofessese is only presenting one side of the story. ten-month long investigation has uncovered no evidence they are targeting groups for political reasons. has toldingle witness us the white house was involved. deputy inspector general identified no evidence of political motivation after a review of more than 5000 e-mails. he is the one whose report sparked the hearings. i personally asked him that question. did you find evidence of political motivation for what was going on? he said, no. as we have learned in the transcribed interview, it was a

self described conservative republican who oversaw irs employees who develop the inappropriate criteria for examination be read you were helpful with some statistics. i wanted to ask you about that. 104 conservative groups targeted? >> this is from the report of the irs dated july 29. 104 conservative organizations were targeted. >> seven progressive groups? >> all of which received their tax-exempt and. -- exemption. >> does it give the total number of applications? conservatives targeted. how many applied? >> i think the number was 283. a lot of the applications, the

justification for this, was an increase in applications. it was actually a decrease. >> does it give the number of progressive groups? no? >> the one i have -- the report i have in front of me is the one that has the seven. >> thank you. the committee's investigation in this matter says that the irs liberal groups with the words progressive or occupy. hesell george admitted failed to inform the committee he was aware of progressive groups receiving similar treatment as.conservative groups . -- same treatment as conservative groups. chell. we just found out about you monday afternoon. we didn't have much time to read about you. tv, which extensive

is online. at a lawu as a partner firm here in washington. >> that's right. >> it says you are a member of the firm's political law practice. is that correct? >> correct. taxationrm has a practice different from the political law practice. but you are any political law practice. lawou are in the political act is. you have served as legal counsel to be republican senatorial committee. as have personally served legal counsel to the republican national committee. >> correct. >> you served as a legislator in oklahoma. would that be as a republican legislature? >> i was a democrat then. till i realized they had become the party of government, not the people. >> ok.

>> just for the record, not all of us would agree with that. we are entitled to our clinical views, too. >> -- political views, too. >> in your political law practice, how many progressive groups do you represent? >> non-. it debt -- none. it doesn't work that way. >> you testified you represent tea party groups. >> i do. >> it works that way. >> that's right. as i say to people, in this law practice, you can play for usc and notre dame. youow many occupy groups do represent? >> i have represented the a.c.l. ale -- aclu. >> in light that they have

excluded democratic members and staff with in person meetings, serious concerns persist about the impartiality of the work of the majority on this committee. are tea party groups represented. one of them has already testified before congress. identify a minority witness on such short notice. this is not a balanced hearing to read this committee is charged with conducting oversight of the federal government. as members of congress, we must exercise that authority ionn an evenhanded manner. forward, i want to see us working together to conduct responsible oversight. i yield back. ms. mitchellll,

doesn't represent progressive groups because it's on like they didn't need it. they were 747. >> -- 7 for 7. they had nine days notice. they could have gotten a witness. maybe you could've gotten one of the seven that was approved. with the committee, the minority did have time to do was write a letter urging me not to pursue having barbara, and answer the questions. you had time for that. but not to find someone to come testify. i recognize the gentleman from south carolina. >> thank you. i am interested in having a balance investigation, not a balanced hearing. did you hear the president say there was not a smidgen of corruption? >> i have heard that he said that. >> did you hear the president say that? let me translate that purity

smidgen is not a legal term. three i assume he meant criminality. how was he able to make that conclusion? neither of you have been interviewed by the bureau? >> no sir. >> three have been interviewed of his 41 clients. or were asked to be interviewed. yet.ne interviewed >> zero of 41 have been interviewed. the president says there is not a smidgen of criminality or corruption. do either of you remember seeing a witness named a lois lerner sitting at the very table you all are sitting at? herou remember her invoking fifth amendment privilege? targetedprivilege he -- she targeted some of your groups for educating people about?

theone she availed herself second she was exposed to criminal investigation? how can the president say there is not a smidgen of criminality when lois lerner invoked the fifth amendment? 41 witnesses have not been interviewed including the two here right now? how can he draw that conclusion? >> good question. i wish someone, one of my colleagues on the other side of the iowa desk be president, how can he conclude that no criminality when lois lerner set in front of them and invoked her privilege against criminality. how do you square that? >> if i may. amendmentd her fifth privilege, which she has the right to do. we know the reason why. it was not as clear as it was made yesterday. she invoked her fifth amendment privilege because she knew,

after she made a false statement, she knew that in fact her words and her e-mails, off and people are- asking us what we can do. she said she cannot do anything until she sees the nine 90's. that was going on while she was redrafting the reuse -- rules. >> i want to say this. i understand why she invoked her fifth amendment privilege. i don't understand why the president would prejudge an investigation before any of your clients were interviewed? inher of these two victims, a criminal sense of the word, wereore either

interviewed. compromised the department of justice. which leads me to this question. there is the option, when you have a compromised investigation and a chief executive who has rejected the outcome -- prejudged the outcome, he has the option of appointing a special counsel. the special council regulation can you think of anything more extraordinary than governments targeting people based on their political beliefs? >> no. i agree with you 100%. i would point to the e-mail of june 14, 2012, which was just released to read this shows the need for a special prosecutor. when you asked about the no evidence of politics, let me quote from the e-mail. don't know who is keeping tabs on c4's.

i have got my radar up. this seemed interesting to read coming from the most senior people within the chief counsel's office. a presidential appointee. specialpoint, a prosecutor to evaluating criminal sanctions or criminal law would probably be the best way to go. i don't think the justice department right now, with two respect to the department, is institutionally capable of doing this. question on her legal representation to read she has an excellent reputation. her clients tend to be conservative because that who her -- that is who hurt clients are. i am a conservative but i have represented the national democratic policy committee.

i don't think is fair to go after the lawyers in a situation where it is the irs that is trying to use their procedures to justify their illegal conduct. remember the apology? the apology is not accepted. >> mr. chairman, in conclusion, i believe the ranking subcommittee member said there are 13 people assigned. 13 people assigned in six months . they have not had time to interview a single solitary woman -- one of her clients. they have not had time to interview either of these two witnesses. the chief executive, the president of the united states, has already prejudged the outcome of the investigation. ongoing- either it is or it is not. it is time for special counsel, mr. chairman. >> i recognize the gentleman

from virgin you. >> -- from virginia. >> thank you for this intriguing hearing. my friends from south carolina, we have mutual respect. it ought to trouble a a tea partel -- y panel and a lawyer that this committee took on a u.s. citizen it very sacred principle -- was enshrined in there because of the experience of our founders with the british. it is a very real right. this committee took upon itself,

every member on that side, including my friend from south if we can do that to her, we can do that to you. everyone of us on the side of the aisle voted not to do that. mayspective of what one the side of the substance of lois lerner's behavior, we think american citizens are entitled to constitutional protections in and a committee does not have the right to waive that right to read -- wave that right. testimony about a government that was overreaching, i would inc. you would be concerned about this committee overreaching. but it was not the side that did it to read i'm not asking you a question. you made a statement. i am making a statement.

you believeight -- one of the federal agents you mentioned -- agencies you mentioned is osha. you complain that in 2012, osha inspected your company. which manufacturers metal products. you said they found nothing serious or significant, but issued fines in excess of $20,000. is that correct? theynspection report says identified 10 violations at your manufacturing company, all of which are classified as serious. they included the failure to provide employees with appropriate eye or face protection. metal. liquid chemicals read acids.

chemical gases and vapors. chairman, i would ask that the inspection record though into the record. is it your contention those findings were politically motivated because you are seeking tax exempt status for another entity? that those violations were in fact trivial or not serious in your view? >> when osha came to our shop, they came under a false as i see -- sic classification when neither my husband nor i were there. they proceeded to interview employees. i would very much welcome everything -- >> my question -- >> the cover letter states that they found -- let me answer. the'm going to control questioning. i'm asking you a simple

question. you can have a press conference later were you can speak to your heart's content. i only have five minutes. were these or were these not a serious matter? >> in my opinion and in the cover letter, they were not serious. >> you complained that you were not there. practice to not give advance warning? that is the whole point of an inspection. to determine whether it a facility is safe or not. to tell you they are coming is to give you a heads-up up to clean up whatever you think is a violation. isn't that their normal practice? >> i don't know what the normal practice is. we complied as we did with every agency that came over the last three years. >> if it is your testimony you don't know their practice, how are you able nonetheless to isnclude that it politically motivated and had something to do with punishing

you for seeking a tax exempt status? >> because in the past three nearlyafter 20 years -- 20 years of being in business and no agency came to visit us -- the succession of agencies that have now come to us, for all manner of things, legs the thing, the statistical probability of what happened to me without would go motivation is staggering. >> i would know for the record, because we are so concerned about the law and making sure there are no violations of the law, are you aware of the fact that it is illegal for the department called osha to give advance notice? that is a matter of law. >> i was not aware of that but i'm not contending they should have given us notice. i am only observing -- >> you complained about it. getcomplained you did not

advance notice. you said you were concerned that neither your husband is -- you understand you can't check in advance to see if you will be there. >> nor did we try to do anything to discourage that process. >> i take that at face value. but it is a huge leap, given that, to conclude someone is out to get you. that there is any political motivation whatsoever. following standard operating procedures. >> you are aware that the information -- >> time has expired. ofthe first 20 years business, did osha ever visit your place of business? >> no, sir. >> after you filed the i am a they visited? >> -- file the application, they visited? >> yes, sir. >> did the irs ever audit you in the first 20 years?

>> no sir. quencher fired your application, did they visit you -- >> six times. >> he wants you to believe that is a coincidence. --i would recognize i was just pointing out that in 20 years of business, ocean never came to her place of business. visited.ever the gentleman is recognized for one minute. >> where is your proof other than you connecting dots that may or may not be connected that osha was politically motivated? >> i didn't say proof. believeant us all to

that by innuendo -- - year timeframe, for different federal agencies. you expect us to believe -- >> i don't expect you to believe anything. you can believe whatever you choose to believe t. >> i believe in fact based, empirical oversight. innuendo and drawing conclusions and paranoia do not substitute for fact-based, empirical oversight. >> security fax -- here are the facts. an application. subsequently was visited by osha, the fbi, atf, and was audited by the irs. >> >> our issue spotlight

programming continues in a moment. you can watch more of this program. geting. irs tar we invite your feedback. call. twitter. facebook. or by e-mail. our special look at the irs targeting investigation continues with lowest. the former director of the irs exempt organization division took the fifth at a committee hearing over seared by -- chaired by darrell issa. it is about 20 minutes.

>> the committee will come to order. we are here today to continue a hearing that began on ma >> we are here the purpose of the hearing is to gather facts about how and why the i.r.s. improperly scrutinized certain organizations that applied for tax exempt status. today we have recalled ms. lois lerner, the former director of exempt organizations at the i.r.s. ms. lerner appeared at the may 22, 2013, hearing you should a subpoena and that subpoena remains in effect. before we resume our questioning, i'm going to

briefly state for the record a few developments that have occurred since the hearing began nine months ago. these are important for the record and for ms. lerner to know and understand. on may 22, 2013, after being sworn in at the start of the hearing, ms. lerner made a voluntary statement under oath discussing her position at the i.r.s. and professing her innocence. ms. lerner did not provide the committee with any advance notification of her intention to make such a statement during her self-selected and entirely voluntary statement -- such a statement. during her self-selected and entirely voluntary statement she spoke in detail about core issues under consideration at the hearing when she stated, i have not done anything wrong, i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any i.r.s. rules or regulations, and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee.

ms. lerner then stated her intention to invoke the fifth amendment and then in response to a request by ranking member cummings, she confirmed orally the authenticity of a document that was entered into the record. she subsequently reinvoked her fifth amendment rights in response to several questions, she then refused to provide any substantive response to those questions. at that hearing, a member of the committee, mr. gowdy, stated that ms. lerner had waived her right to invoke the fifth amendment because she had given voluntary statement professing her innocence. i temporarily excused ms. lerner from the hearing and subsequently recessed the hearing to consider whether ms. lerner had in fact waived her fifth amendment rights. meanwhile, the committee's investigation proceeded without ms.

lerner's testimony. to date we have conducted 33 bipartisan transcribed interviews of witnesses from the i.r.s. we have heard witnesses' testimony during five committee and subcommittee hearings. because the i.r.s. is not full -- has not fully cooperated with the committee's investigation, i have issued three subpoenas for documents. the i.r.s. continues to withhold some of ms. lerner's emails from the committee. documents and testimony show that ms. lerner is uniquely positioned to provide testimony that will help the committee better understand how and why the i.r.s. targeted conservative groups. at a business meeting on june 28, 2013, the committee approved a resolution rejecting ms. learner's claim of fifth amendment privilege based on her waiver at the may 22, 2013. after that vote, having made the

determination that ms. lerner waived her fifth amendment rights, the committee recalled her to appear today to answer questions pursuant to rules. the committee voted and found that ms. lerner waived her fifth amendment rights by making a statement on may 22, 2013. addition -- and additionally by affirming documents making fifth amendment rights. if she continues to refuse to answer questions from our members while she's under a subpoena, the committee may proceed to consider whether she should be held in contempt. since it's been 9 1/2 months since we started this hearing, i'm going to ask her to refirm her oath. let the record indicate the

witness did answer in the affirmative. ms. lerner, put up slide one, please. on october 10 -- in october, 2010, you told a duke university group, and i quote, the supreme court dealt a huge blow overturning a 100-year-old precedent that basically corporations couldn't give directly to political campaigns. ms. learner, what exactly -- ms. lerner, wanted to fix the

problem caused by citizens united, what does that mean. could you please turn the mike on. >> my counsel advised me i have notwayed my constitutional rights under the fifth amendment and under his advice i decline to answer any subject matter in this hearing. >> so you're not going to tell us who wanted to fix the problem under citizens united. >> under the advice of counsel i invoke my fifth amendment right and refuse to answer the question. >> in february, 2011, you emailed your colleagues and the following. tea party matter very dangerous. this could be the vehicle to go to court on the issue of whether citizens united overturning the ban on corporate spending applies to tax exempt rules.

counsel and judy kindell need to be on this one please. crinecy should probably not -- cincy should probably not -- all have these cases. what did you mean by cincy shouldn't have these cases? >> on the advice of counsel i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer the question. >> ms. lerner, why would you say tea party cases were dangerous. >> on the advice of counsel i respectfully invoke my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, you emailed your subordinates about initiating a, parenthesis c-4 project and wrote, we need to be cautious so that it isn't a per se political project. why were you worried about this being perceived as a political project?

>> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully inters my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> ms. lerner, mike ceto, manager of e.o. technical in washington testified that you ordered tea party cases to undergo a multitier review. he testified, and i quote, she sent me emails saying that when these cases need to go through -- i'll say it again, she sent me email saying that when these cases need to go through multitier review and they will eventually have to go to ms. kindell and the chief counsel's office. why did you order tea party cases to undergo a multitier review.