like her a lot. a lot, a lot. she liked my cousin. you know, he was a drug dealer, he had money. you know. , in i saw her at the shelter just figured she worked there. i figured she was a caseworker. we both went off. i went off to college. i figured she did too. but she was a guest. she was a client. over time isens that we understand the nuance of how these things -- how this problem, when it was small, could have been addressed. we know that. simpleminded as to think that you just end poverty. i know that if we just gave her money, she would smoke it.

right? you are with your friends very often and they walk by a homeless person and the first thing they do is pilaf ones -- peel off ones and you are like hey, you're not solving the problem. and you know that. with your acute knowledge that you have, we should be putting together policies and strategies to take care of atlanta's homeless problem. something happened. there were breakdowns along the way. we know that substance abuse is real. we know when substance abuse starts. we know it starts, for most people, in high school. the real hard-core ones, right around 11. for the most part, right around high school. and we know the people who are most susceptible to it. we know about their family patterns.

we know all of these things. yet we are not pushing for programs, the supportive programs to do it. so then our programs are these little programs. well,d of us saying, substance abuse starts in the teens, typically. so we did some programming in the high schools. not just the don't do drugs, those are bad for you. bring in the person, i do not have any teeth and i was on drugs. [laughter] because the kids make those connections. like, i do not want to look like that. somebody always wants to come talk to my school. i want to tell them my story

about how i was broke. man, they have heard it. they do not care. you are not famous and they do not know you. yeah, but i want to come in and help. you want to help? come in here and work with the kids. build a relationship with them. talk to them about life. do not just show up like some and you are going to come in and lay hands on them -- i was poor once and i am not poor anymore. be like me. they have heard that a million times and guess what? they do not believe it. it. do not believe but you know how to put together a program that is meaningful. is meaningful, not just an afterschool program that they can drop in, but something more take awayat does not from their preparation from the state examination but helps them the more prepared because their mental health is addressed.

we know that people of color are the least likely to go and get the services that are necessary to help them but the most likely to need it. particular, men, in are the least likely to go and get mental health support and are the most likely to need it. who are we identify most as having mental health issues in early ages? men. african-american and latino men. still, those are the ones who are least likely to get it because we do not get it to them at a time when it is bad. when the issue is small and curable. we know that so many of our teachers are so ill-prepared to deal with african-american and latino boys is the first -- that the first thing they do is kick them out of class. mad they come back to class about it, they kick them out again.

when they get in class and cut up because they do not know what , they say that something is intellectually or emotionally wrong with them. you know this. you know how it happens. you know how it is going down. there is one woman at the end of this long table by herself and it is us flanking her like a line, tellingrain her how bad her child is and we hit her with every acronym we can. i am the principal. what? what do those letters spell? can i buy a vowel? [laughter] if i do not understand it, i know she does not get it. and you know how that kid got there. you do. you know what the system did. so why aren't we working harder

with the education schools to get them right? why aren't we, as university faculty, not saying to this school, you have got to have at work --% of your curse of your coursework be in social work? you are talking pedagogy. what is more pedagogical than understanding the human element of the people you are educating? what is more germane to teaching than understanding that you do not just feel sorry for the child because he is poor? nobody responds, oh, we understand. oh, yes, he comes from a home. and they always use the most bizarre outlier. works five jobs. they have 70 kids at the house and he has got to watch them at five years old. [laughter]

ass did not come to school today because he is lazy. that is why he did not come to school. and a social worker can go get him. call the house. by the time i get there, you better be dressed or i will dress you. i will dress your behind. you understand the nuances. you understand how this thing falls apart. know why the kids are not paying attention and you know why the parents are so suspicious of us. many of our men and women need to talk to someone who is a professional, not just their cousin and them, as a group. harder to transform the way in which resources are used in our community. we are spending in some

communities on education and incarceration, more than we are spending on anything else. we are dropping a lot of money at the backend. in some communities, $50,000 a year. to incarcerate. just imagine if some of these that youive programs are supposed to work in or want to start, just imagine if you had $50,000 a client. you could buy them a house per year. dut that money is just poure allow thee because we political forces that are going on in our country to come and say, lock them up. three strikes, you are out. and then wonder why they are vagabonds when they come out. they cannot get a job. they cannot get a student loan.

they can barely even get access to their own children and we wonder why the kids don't have anybody in their life. you see it. you see how this thing happens. it is a couple of small decisions that become big. why is it that our services are always the first to be cut? why is it that our programs are always the first to be cut? you hear people say, we need to put more money into schools. for what? most of the money that you put into the schools goes to the teachers and the administered a system. the building and the nuts and bolts. it is not materials. you know this. it is not buying more stuff. you do -- you can go to some of these raggedy schools in the country and they will get more of theer pupil than some schools. if you had more money, what would you do?

so many of our programs are running on $1500 a client, $1000 a client. what that does to our profession is it water sit down -- it down because these organizations have you, a bunch of people who may or may not have a degree, right? and if they have one, it is definitely not social work. this person has an accounting degree and she is black, so they hired her. she must be able to talk to black people. and she is the one who is delivering the services to this very needy, acute need population. she might be a nice person, a , and mom or wife or friend maybe even really smart. because we have allowed our work and resources to be the first

that are dried up, that is what we get. m.s.w. who works the entire organization and you have to sign off on everything. am i saying it right? you are asked to come in and sign off on some stuff, treatment plans, where you think, i do not know if that is the way i would have done it. the state is coming in and the funders are coming in. happens, that has happened, that is happening because of us. leastk with some of the desirable people and you have a lot of women who do it. do you see how you guys get pushed off as a group and you are quiet on top of it? if social workers do not start to speak up, then we will disappear.

we will disappear. from the professional ranks. we will be seen as old-school and outdated. you -- i dow about not usually -- it takes a lot to offend me. it really does. but one thing that has always -- people call themselves a doctor and they are not a doctor. but when someone calls themselves a social worker and they are not a social worker, i am always offended. [applause] because the only person who would do that is someone who does not understand or respect the level of intellectual endeavor that you have had to go through. the level of emotional space that you have had to go through to get to this place. they do not understand. a lot of times, you are reading the dsm and you are saying, this is me?

i have got to read that again. you are going through case studies and you are finding your family in them. it is uncovering all of this ugliness in your own life and how much you have had to go through in your own life and you are trying to make your life that are and other people's lives better. cases, you are dealing with the same exact stuff. i used to refer to my refrigerator as furniture. because it would be of more use on its side, as a chair. because there was nothing in it. when your clients have more food , when youre then you client has got to cut a hole in their pocket to get the 120-inch

tv in the house, when you drive a kid home to a house with four cars in the driveway and nobody gets off there behind to come get this child, when you find yourself arguing with somebody about something that they did wrong, then you know what social work is really about. that, in order to get the level of understanding that you have, you had to go through some stuff. i do not know if any other educational experience requires as much as social work. i do not know it. i do not know. is, fromhe expectation a social worker, that you are going to be on the ground level at one point or another. you are going to be there.

and you are going to be in someplace that is dark and scary , whether it is physical or emotional. you are going to sit with a child who is four or five years old and draw pictures with her as she describes to you how she was brutally raped. then that session is going to be over and you are going to go and do it again. and then that session is owing to be over and you are going to squeeze a lunch in in between there, at your desk, and then you are going to do it again. ,ach and every time you do it you are going to feel a piece of your soul being ripped out. i remember someone saying to me that they had seen it all.

i remember saying to myself, if ever i say that, i do not want to be a social worker anymore. how could you see it all? people at their most vulnerable times. when fear is the only emotion they can make sense of. you get to see people at a time and in a space that no one will ever see them again. you may be working with the elderly and you are looking into the eyes of a grandmother who is ready to pass and she knows it and she knows that nobody is going to take care of these kids. your problem is your effectiveness. instead of you, a social worker, saying, you know what, there should be a program for

such a thing and there should be resources for such a thing and there should be a process for justa thing, you focus on taking care of it. you just go and take care of it. you say, she is about to pass away, you start contacting foster care and then you realize that college, they cannot go to that one. then you finally find one. it is not the best, but you have got to get the resources of. now you get to the job training program. this is all you. you just think you just do it. and thenrun into it you are part of the home. can you come home? i will be home in a little while. i promise. i have just got to go to this family's house, one more thing i need to do and after that, i will come home. you just care your life up -- tear your life up. you just mess your stuff up.

when you come home, somebody is at the door like, you stink. where you been? instead of us pulling back and saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, there has to be something in the social net for social workers to be able to depend on and it develops in society. it cannot just be dependent upon the skill of the social worker forever. we need to fight to give resources to the front lines, and i mean money. we need to fight to make sure there are programs that can take care of people at the lowest level. as social workers, you know we are all going to be at our lowest point, sometimes a couple of times a year. people can pray their way through anything and they can shout and clap and do whatever they want, but at the end of the

day, that bill has got to get paid. somebody has got to take care of that child. somebody has got to make sure that the grandparents get the care that they need. someone has to make sure that this addict stays sober. you that i submit to we have fallen short on our responsibility as social workers. it seems like an odd thing to say to social workers, but all you do is work. we need to be more vocal in the public sphere. we need to speak out. we need to talk about the things that we see and put the solutions out there. because you know what the solutions are. you really do. you know when they would best take shape. you know when the illness begins. and you know how to stop it before it gets big. my brother'sma has , and education program,

in many ways. he should be a social worker. am i right? have you seen what they are supposed to do. --you read it, you think i am saying that we have come to the point in the black and latino communities and in some of the poor white communities where we have nothing left. usually, when i am in a group, they have -- i have to tell people that it is really bad. you do not understand it it is worse than you have ever imagined. we had a young girl, three years old, stab another girl in the face with a pencil four times. the child showed no remorse.

, i do notther said know what you all are doing at that school. we need help, folks. and you are the calorie. -- cavalry. you are the delta force. whatever analogy you need to use, you are it. and you know it. if you do not know it, i hope you know it now. you should understand that you need to get involved politically. you do. a little social activism with our social work, please. adding some parity to the public conversation that is so muddied by politics. recognizing that sending people to prison is not the answer. institutionalizing the others is not the answer.

you see it when it is small, folks. you see it when it is small. every single issue, you see it when it is small. i bet if i asked you whatever population you work with, whatever region you worked with, if you had those solutions, every single one of you has them. and i bet most of them would work. especially if they were done on a larger scale. keep -- i do not know why this fire will go out. i keep throwing a glass of water at it. this is our time and this is the only time we have. our profession is being watered -- is being watered down by individuals who are not andal workers, coming in taking what are literally referred to as social work jobs. they get the job and they are

called a social worker. that is insane. agency can come into an and be called a social worker by title? wow. plumber by just being called a plumber. you cannot be an electrician, you cannot be a barber. years of after two masters program or four years of a bachelors program, in some cases, whatever number it takes to get your phd, someone comes in and called himself a social worker. us, man. this is our time right now. it is our responsibility to step up and start putting what we know in front of everyone and start to solve the problems.

we actually can solve a lot of these issues. they are actually solvable. you have seen it. you have seen, on a micro level, where some of these people have access to some of these services, their lives be turned around. redemption,n change, forgiveness. you have seen it happen. you have seen people from the inths and bowels of poverty, the most disgusting circumstances of violence, you have seen those people stand strong because some of you are those people. tell, just because you got your hair done, just because you have a nice suit on, you are not slick. we all see the markings. you had a mayonnaise sandwich. [laughter] i know you did. you had a sugar sandwich.

you know what that block of cheese tastes like. [laughter] you had cereal that just has serial on it. it.cereal" on you have done that thing, it says "expired by," but the doughnuts don't have any mold on them. you know that we can make people's lives better. that is what you were called to do. your story, the thing that evidenceu to this, is that the problems can be solved. solvede problem can be in your life and people can be called from the depths of our community to the highest highs of clark university school of

social work. there have to be more people behind you who can be saved too, right? that we are soks great that god only did it for us, right? that this is something that he reserved just for us because we are that good? we are in this to save thousands of lives. it is usually entertainers, but people say, if i could just touch one life -- then you would be fired. one? that is a low threshold. one total? one by ten? one? you should make people laugh or do something like that, but those of us who are real social workers, we do not think in in termsones, we think of hundreds and thousands, entire communities and nations,

cultures and genders, we think about sexualities, entire swatches of the nation. if that is how you think, you have to act that way. if your interest is in an entire group, if you care about black men and latino men, gang girls and boys, the transgender, the poor or the wealthy, if you care ,bout women, whatever the thing you cannot think that one at a time is going to solve the problem. you become part of the problem. place into find a politics for yourself. i know, social workers, i get it. we hate it. we hate it. more than anybody. the problem is, we need to be the ones who are there.

so i will close here and then i want to answer some questions. [applause] if you shout out your question, i will answer it as quickly and completely as i can. ma'am? , the obstacles that we have -- i worked for years with seniors in home care. city, the mayor wanted to stop the sugary drinks. me withconfronted water. year ander year after she refused to understand.

you know why you do not see many large people over 65? because they are gone. our biggest challenge is our clients. >> i would say you are right. but that is why they are our client. if they could fix themselves, we would be out of a job. , the school of social work that i went to, that we were supposed to work ourselves out of a job for that particular family. they should not need us forever. and we can pinpoint the behaviors causing the problems that they face. we can line up the solutions. but the reason why they are in this situation is because they are in this situation. everyone knows that drugs are bad for you. it is not one of those things you have to work real hard to sell to someone. but that is not the answer.

we have to touch their hearts somewhere else. >> what do you recommend to assist us in recruiting young black males into the profession? it is one of the biggest obstacles i have. students come in and they want ,o be criminal justice majors they want to do psychology. i start talking social work and they do not get it until their junior year. maybe that is what i should have done. >> right. you are looking at the only black male rat to it from the university of pennsylvania school of social work in 1995. [applause] graduately black male from the university of

pennsylvania school of social work in 1995. i think one of the things that has to happen is we need to i thinke it earlier and a way to do it, especially when you have teams on campuams s, io talk to the teams. the trackll teams, teams, the basketball teams, where you have a lot of boys on campus. talk to them. >> ideal with a lot -- i deal with a lot of my young men. men.at them like that nor real issue is one listens to them. their fathers do not listen to them.

always say that if they go to me or any other woman, they hear me, but they do not listen, the males. >> right. that is a complicated question and i will tell you why. there are profound differences between men and women. i know this comes as a shock to some of you. i will give you one. if a man sees another man having wait to see ifl there is an opportunity for him to go up to him and say anything. if he does, it will be something really simple. you good? i'm good. that will be the entire conversation. whereas a woman does not wait at all and does not just say one thing. talkslks and talks and and talks because, in many

cases, from the gender perspective, women talk their problems out. we think -- they think out live. -- loud. i would submit to you that there are very few men in this room who have talked their problems out with another man. in the same way that women do. what especially teenage boys are going through, they are going through a transition -- and i am putting labels on this. if my feminists could hold on for a second and hear what i have to say. they are going from traditionally feminist characteristics in their earlier ages of talking -- like little boys, that is why mothers fall so madly in love with their sons. sweetest, tellhe you how beautiful you are every goingonds, so they are

from that time when they used to talk a lot to a time where they do not talk as much because they are practicing being men. periode is a transition buta lot of boys and men, the men, in many cases, do not know how to talk to a young man. that is stupid. that is what people say to us. so there is that. , thereer part of it is is an intersection of values. a time in which children were meant to be seen and not heard. then there is a group that wants to only hear them. and these polls are killing us. because there is a lot to be grown folks are

talking, the quiet, sit at the child's table. there is a lot of really there is a lot of rich learning how to respond to authorities in their. there is another side where children have an opinion. principal, as a mother says that is your side of the story. like i have a side of the story and eight-year-old has the other side. some of the listening or not is caught up in some of the values, especially children of color. one of the problems we have is that we are very -- we have violent parenting strategies. a pretty significant undercurrent of violence in the way we communicate with our children. even our complements are not really complements. you think you are so smart.

parents describing their son in particular -- how is your son? bad as hell. it is a complement, sort of comment that the site complement. complicated it is a question. people whos easy as are going to talk to them. one of the things i find is the best way to engage many boys is to get them involved in group's that are sports or otherwise oriented. boysd by a male because grouply feel safer in a because they can deal with some other issues differently without actually having to put himself up front. there's a safety in that

experience for a lot of mails. the coach can set expectations to make you do certain things that if you do them yourself, you would look like a punk. the coach says, you better be in school tomorrow else you are playing. when a friend says, come chill with me, you say i can't or else i won't be able to play. at tovolve them in these the days. what happens is it gives them a safe place to do good. it also allows them to build a rapport with a man in a way that makes them feel comfortable. the last part of this is here, especially in a black and latino community, but the black community i know better. we have real homophobic issues. , deep,real, real poisonous, frighteningly scary, homophobic into most of the station issues -- into

molestation issues. it makes me believe a lot of black men in particular were sexually molested them have ever come forward. i would venture a guess. honest five, 10 times what we know. easily, easily. we have these issues. even here the boy saying, no homo. we have such issues. even grown men learned among us lot ofe with how -- a times brothers will come up to me. i love what you do. effing a whole disclaimer. if i've got a wife, understand what i'm saying? i got you.

i appreciate you. i'm just saying, letting you know. appreciate what you do, but i'm saying, i ain't gay or not then. but that is a really bad suit. it's nice. and i think i like your suit like, like it like it. just saying it is a nice suit. we have such deep-seated issues around sexuality in the black community, especially among black men, that complex is deeply embedded in us, we don't know what to do. we are really a mess over this. want to be able to talk to a young man, but you don't want to be put in a situation where you think he is tried to come onto them. you guys don't think about this. this is real thoughts.

onas men have to think about a regular basis because of the over sexualization of black men. after all of those other systems are in place and the last thing a man is sitting down -- if you havey father --ike coach or if you don't have a title, folks look at you and think, what are you doing? why do you have all of those boys around you? you like having boys around you? what is that about? the boy can talk to anybody because of these things. it is to the point where he is becoming a teenager and he doesn't want to talk to his mom like he used to because he knows that there is a point of which we learn that you like girls. oh. mom is a girl. holy cow.

[laughter] it is different, right? space where-bitty you have a 12-14-year-old boy, he's right. no one is listening to him. he is right. he is unaffiliated and not connected to a team or something like that and because nobody will let him go to see a ,sychiatrist or a social worker he is trying to pack that stuff in. he is tied to put in his pocket and walk with it so he looks normal because he doesn't want to be crazy, like your "crazy." you want to talk? you are crazy.

it is a challenging thing. -- somethingcial many social workers still with. the boy wants to talk to you, but he won't talk to like he would talk to a man who he felt comfortable talking with. you recognize that come especially in the modern black community. most of us who do have a role model, it was someone who is a professional -- a coach, teacher . done ourselves in as a black community. we have hurt ourselves pretty bad. we have done real wicked stuff. it,on't always want to own but it is real. we have really poisoned the well on a lot of places. i'm not saying we did it by ourselves. i want to be clear. a slavery is not the reason why a man in 2014 doesn't take care of his kids.

[applause] my question is i heard you talk about working things on a macro and micro level. what are some things you are engaging in? >> on a macro level, one of my pet projects is working to make sure that children have school choice. the reason why school choice is important to me and to us is because we know that an effective teacher and by extension school is the most important fact in in a young person's development and moving on. and so the reason i find myself squared off against the teachers unions is because they want things to stay the way that they

are. i don't. atlanta. this always trips me out. you have more black college thannts per square inch any other place outside of the continent of africa. that is just my statement. nowhere else on earth are you going to find so many educated and have one of the worst school systems in america. [applause] confused. you have five colleges, right? how many? four? four colleges and just beyond here, some of the worst of the worst and within america.

of the worst-- one neighborhoods in america. i'm confused. this is a mess. , atlanta.t it every time i come here, i don't get it. i'm confused every single time i come. -- talk about travel on the things they do in the lifestyle they have been the car and the housewives. aylmer to nobody. -- ain't married to nobody. i don't get it. i don't understand. i'm lost and confused. you can't blame white people. you had lacked people in every single decision, the butcher, the maker, that candlestick

maker. mayors. it is now to the point where people will be shocked if they had a white mayor. what? how did that happen? from now on, you can fool -- you could find the coolest white man -- school choice should be the order of the day. give them another shot. this right here is on us, man. school choice. i do understand how you have so many people who were educated and why aren't there more of you in schools? steps. who. -- boom.

with so many churches, there should be more saved people. so many more educated people should be more who educate people. these -- in tornier fraternities and sororities. jill.nd every damn thing. all the markings of the middle class. middle class takes care of the rest of the people good as is not middle-class. this is something else. we are moving through the middle class in such way that we have our own government. we made this that we messed it up. the greatest african-american minds of all time had studied in the city, in the city of all time. in this city.

y'all have the worst schools. really? my grandmother would say, terrible. [laughter] you have got people cheating. i have never seen such. y'all walking around like, do, do do. don't you get it? this is not ok. this is so abnormal. i bring you greetings as your brother from the northeast. i'm telling you up there, a lot of people look at you guys down here and say, i'm going to move down there. they get here. they send the kids to the same school up the northeast. it is not ok. a macro thing i'm working on is one, education come and two telling black people to cut it out. we have got to stop. [applause]

sir. i have volunteered in a working with kids in the foster care system. to someeen exposed stuff in the system and never imagine was going on in the community. by the same token, large percentage of the kids in the -- they can't be served by the current system. and when and is the future of the children who are caught up in that system? hope?me way out, some children, it's bleak. i didn'te reasons why

themy -- was because of racial adoption thing. adoption, andial sorry. if a white family was to take care of a black child, give them the child, man. that's the worst thing, they are white? that's their crime? then i'm cool with that. real cool with that. greater theple child and don't want to take care of them, i don't care what part of the world they are from. i don't pay if they are gay or black,ht, white or just good people taking care of our children. care if they are gay

or straight, white or black, just good people taking care of our children. compelled to say, how many kids are you adopting? john many how many -- show me how many live in your house? [applause] is and thisrt of it is where we as social workers really need to open up our shirts and show the s on our che st, many of those kids are deeply fractured, deeply fractured. you never want to say person is broken. that means there's no hope, but deeply fractured. the data tells us they will be in the system for much of their lives. is going back to the point of his making. there are no easy solutions. put our solution is we

systems in place to make sure that we work harder to make people who are white who want to adopt a will go to russia to get a child, that we make it seemed, we have got you. this is true. i know you know what i'm saying is true. i will hear black people say, they don't know how to do their hair. we'll help them. i mean, really. i see some black kids with k notty hair. come here. [laughter] cornrows in and you will be straight. big family,e got a everyone has got to learn how to do hair. if you are in my family and you have a younger girl cousin, you better be able to pull it back in. otherwise you are in a heap of

trouble. [laughter] what we have to do as social workers is we have to rally around the families who want to support these kids, both want to want to take them back and the one to are going to receive them and encourage them. we should be leading the charge. we should be encouraging people and providing support to the sounds to are from different ethnic groups sued the site to take an african-american child and support them. for the support around them and don't make them feel bad about the decision they have made. you have made the right decision. particular, many of them need intense mental health support. intense. they have some of the most acute issues of anyone you will find. right? you have seen like i had seen, these kids find themselves

in those situations have the most acute issues and they are the most challenging. they will need support. i thank you sincerely. i really do. before you clock or anything, -- clap or anything, i want you to hear me say thank you are all you do. thank you for hearing what i'm saying and coming to you and being real with you about what we need to do. this is really on us right now. thank you for all of your attention. [applause] >> several live events to tell you about tomorrow. beginning with a panel on nsa

surveillance programs. the center for the study anislam and democracy hosts event about isis. and then public opinion and war i the cato institute. a greats a -- cure is read for your summer list. sundays at eight. was a riskew there in the bohemian lifestyle. i decided to take it. whether it is an illusion or not, i don't think it is, it helped my concentration.. it stopped immediately -- stopped me being bored. i would want the evening to go on longer.

if i was asked, would i do it again, the answer is yes. i would have quit earlier, hoping to get away with the old thing. easy for me to say and not nice for my children to hear. the truth is, it would be hypocritical for me to say no, i would not have touched the stuff if i had known. i did know. prexy soviet system contains the seeds of its own distraction. problems we saw at the end began at the beginning. the i spoke about the attempt to control all institutions. one of the problems is when you do that, try to control everything, you create a position and potential dissidents everywhere. if you tell all artists they

have to paint the same way, you have made them into a political dissent parade perks if you want to subsidize housing in this country, and the populace agrees, put it on the ballot sheet. make it clear and evident. make everybody aware of how much it is costing. he delivered through third-party enterprises, fannie mae and for a, deliver the subsidy through a public company and private shareholders, executives who extract the subsidy for themselves, that is not a good way of subsidizing home ownership. andstopher hitchens and areebaum -- anne applebaum among those in the book now available at your bookseller. next, the, -- up

house committee meeting chaired by paul ryan of wisconsin. >> the committee will come to order. i want to get started. this is our fifth hearing on the war on poverty. we have heard from a number of voices, policy experts and officials and today, we are going to hear from people in the middle. going to hear from people in the middle. into the private sector who worked with the public sector. people who coordinate. we are going to hear from an especially important voice, mrs. tianna gaines-turner. first, i was happy to meet tianna. we got to meet earlier and i am happy to hear her testimony. i will quote from her previous testimony because i think she

hit the nail on the head. "poverty is not just one issue that can be solved at one time. it is just not an issue of jobs or food or housing or assistance and safety. it is a people issue and you cannot slice people up into issues. we are whole human beings. poverty has to do with a whole person who is in a family, a neighborhood." i cannot have said it better myself. that is right. for too long, the federal government has treated people as numbers. that is why i'm excited to hear from heather reynolds. she is doing great work in fort worth. she is putting together a pilot project about expanding opportunities for working

families. ms. reynolds program sees people as whole human beings who deserve time and care and not just a client to usher through the door. and the results speak for themselves. in 2013, 90 percent of the people and the refugee program but came self-sufficient within six months. i also want to welcome jennifer tiller. work first and accountability. america works get paid only if they succeed. i cannot find a better definition of success than their own. they say successful is moving to employment and maintaining a self-sufficient lifestyle. i think we should insist on the same kind of accountability on our federal programs. one last thing. as a previous hearing, some of my colleagues kept asking if they received federal aid as if it would undercut their testimony. the point of these hearings is

not just to question whether the federate -- federal government should help but how it can best help. i hope we can listen and learn from our witnesses today. and i want to recognize the ranking member. >> thank you, mr. chairman and i want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. this is our fifth hearing. the question of how we can better address poverty in america. as i have in the past, i want to start on two points of agreement. first, the best anti-poverty measurement is a job. a job that pays a living wage and can support individuals and a family. and second, if there are better ways to channel resources to get

better results in terms of our fight on poverty, we welcome that conversation. and case management may be a very successful way of doing that. while it is our fifth hearing, we still have two -- we still have a huge disconnect. the republican budget that passed out of this committee and house the dramatically cuts funding for programs that help people climb out of poverty. and mr. chairman, the fact remains that the budget you presented with a cut the areas of the budget that would help provide the kind of case management we are talking about. dramatic cuts of the discretionary part of the budget funded at lower than two times the sequester cuts and deep cuts in programs like food and nutrition. we wanted to have a discussion

here about how to better use existing resources to help people climb out of poverty. we welcome that conversation. what we do not welcome is using that conversation as a pretext were means to dramatically cut funding for this program whether medicaid or food and nutrition programs. and as chairman indicated, we have had witnesses who have received important funding. there is no disagreement here that the federal government can play an important role in helping people climb out of poverty. but, it is hard to do that at the same time that you have a budget that dramatically cuts funding for the programs.

reform, better use of existing resources to help people and more effective results -- yes. a conversation that does not answer the question about how cuts on anti-poverty programs will advance the goal is a something we will continue to ask about. finally, as i joined the chairman and welcoming all of the witnesses, i am pleased that ms. is gaines-turner is here. she is the first of five hearings who herself has experienced the struggles of poverty and the effort to climb out. i think your personal testimony is especially important in that regard. as you state in your testimony, one of the keys there is making sure that work pays. when you have a job, you can lose have a job that supports the family. one of the things would've been trying to do in the house is at least raise the minimum wage

from its current $7.25 an hour which is lower purchasing power than when harry truman was president. would like to raise it to $10.10 an hour which does not provide a living away job at least provide greater opportunities for people taking care of themselves and their families. we are still hoping to have a vote on that and many other issues that support work. we are pleased to have all these witnesses today to talk about how we can tackle this important challenge before us. thank you, mr. chairman and look forward to the conversation. >> thank you. to make sure everyone knows, it is against the law to provide false testimony, we have began a new practice. this does not reflect any guest trust we have in any particular witness.

we are taking this step because of guidance. i would like to ask the three of you if you do not mind standing if we can swear in our testimony. please raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. please take your seats. that is a formality we have to engage in now. heather, why don't we start with you and move this way. >> thank you. chairman ryan and ranking member van holland, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. my name is heather reynolds and i am president of catholic charities fort worth. let me get right to my main point. poverty is complex and often cyclical. parents have poor children and poor children often become poor parents. the cycle continues unless it is broken. case management is the critical

element in moving someone from government dependency to self-sufficiency. that is why we believe that case management has got to be an integral part of the conversation on how we reform our approach to poverty. first, case manager allows us to work with that client and individualized away. every day in fort worth, texas, we have over 300 people coming to our organization for help. each individual's poverty looks different but we mainly see three main types. chronic poverty which results from a combination of factors such as age, disability, or mental illness. people who will need safety net services throughout the course of their life.

the second type is situational poverty. cost of idle divorce, unexpected health care expenses and the loss of a job. this type is often the most temporary ad with a quick intervention, families can be put back on track. the third type is generational. people in generational poverty are those what had two or three people living in poverty. it is passed down from parent to child. it is a mindset of living in the moment and be proactive and setting goals and planning ahead are not in the reference. understanding is critical for understanding how to combat it. case manager is most needed for those in situational and generational. those in generational poverty need a deeper level of case

management because it requires a mindset change. second, case management allows us to serve in a way that is holistic. in most cases, people come to capital -- catholic charities face complex challenges. the way the federal system is designed, they receive services for all of their needs independently. case management helps transform intervention from an array of standalone services to a comprehensive plan to get families to achieve their fullest potential. if active case management is a process in which they work to holistically move a family forward out of poverty permanently.

we have a successful federally funded and anti-poverty program. our success of moving individuals from poverty is a high because of case management. in 2013, 90% of our clients became self-sufficient within six months. from my experience, many federal programs are not designed for the end goal. how can we set our goal at ending homelessness and count the number shelter beds? how can we count the number of homeless families and achieve it by counting the number? at catholic charities, our main partner is the economic opportunities at notre dame. our program aimed at persistent and agreed among low income students. this is achieved through case management and emergency financial assistance. a pilot is tracking outcome for randomly assigned to students

receiving surfaces in a control group of student. in order to measure the true impact of the services. academic performance, educational attainment and employment and earnings. the results indicated that students receiving case management services not only averaged more credit hours and in the treatment group but were more likely to persist in their education. case management was the difference. there's not a better way to get somebody out of poverty is to help ensure they graduate with a degree that can get them a job that pays them not enough to survive but to thrive. poor parents have poor kids and more often than not, poor kids become poor parents. the cycle continues unless it is a purposely broken. case management is the critical item of moving a family out of poverty for good. thank you for your time today and thank you for what you are doing to bring attention to the important issue of ending poverty.

>> thank you. >> america works is a network of company including americaworks of washington, d.c. have managed retention programs throughout the united states. under the mission of changing lives by lifting them from dependency and to employment, americaworks have place over 400,000 people into jobs nationwide. americaworks rapid attachment work program allows individuals to be place quickly in the workforce. we believe will work should be the central focus. wrap around services but not limited to mental health, shelter services, childcare care, and education endeavors are simultaneously. over the years, americaworks has

taken on total social programs that has caused taxpayers billions of dollars. we have attached ex-offenders to jobs. americaworks has taken people out of homeless shelters. we could create productive citizens. americaworks pioneered the work first program.. states were limited to a small percentage of people. this forced employment first and training later or simultaneously for upgrading and improving prospects. americaworks haiyan pioneered government contracts that is not commonly used. betsy mckay wrote it is the responsibility. government involvement should not stop at the management of funding and programs, it should

champion personal -- most contractors are paid when clients enroll in their programs regardless of employment. betsy mckay wrote it is the responsibility of government involvement should not stop at the management of funding and programs, it should champion personal responsibility. personal responsibility act to encourage employment as well as hold precipitous -- participants accountable. in order to successfully move individuals from dependent too independent, we must revisit the premise. what is the definition of success for a recipient?

it is an individual moving to employment, maintaining a self-sufficient lifestyle, and progress in their desired career trajectory. charlene shares her story and i would like to share it. my name is charlene dorsey and i've been a part of it for 2 years. when i first started, i was not focus on my career goals. after several months of "messing around," i came to the realization. tanf would be cut soon and i cannot rely on this as a way to support me and my children. i got tired of my life south of the dependency. after spending with the director, i decide to take the program more seriously.

i work very closely with the staff at americaworks and put my energy into gaining employment. within one week, i had a job. i started working as a cashier. when i was searching for employment, food service was my last resort. after work for a few months, i realize i loved my job and had the potential to grow within the company. i have been working there for nine months in him the training program to become a manager. i love my supervisor and staff i work with. i enjoy getting up and going to work each day. even though food service is not in the fieldwork i was initially

interested in, i came to berlin as the nation that work is it better -- i came to the realization that work is better than depending on tanf. i am so happy at my job now and i'm looking forward to all of the opportunities i will have to advance my career. thank you for the opportunity to speak. >> ms. tianna gaines-turner. >> good morning. thank you very much for inviting me. my name is tianna gaines-turner and i'm a member of a witness to hunger. let's get down to business. i will be talking about different things that are important to me and my family. let's talk about jobs and wages. the fact it is called minimal wage is a problem. we need to be where people do have a living wage. we need to make sure we have paid sick leave so a mother or father or a person as a caregiver can take off of work

and not to worry about losing their jobs. and address affordable childcare for those who have children and those entering into the workforce. safety net. where do i begin? food stamps. the food stamp program is very important to me and my family. nobody wakes up in the morning and say we want to be in poverty. we do not want to wait in a food pantry line to get to the front and tell there is no food. it helped cement my husband make sure we can feed our children. nutritious and adequate food. husbandlps and and my make sure we can feed our children. nutritious and adequate food. wic is another important program. i know that firsthand. with twins, my twin boy had open-heart surgery. i was able to breast-feed a give a pump which i know i cannot. health care. if you look at the screen, that

is my son. i thought it was important for people to understand the many struggles found have to go through. i'd to visit minutes after my son suffered his -- i took this a few minutes after my son suffered his second a seizure. it is not easy to wake up every day and not know, did you pay the phone bill or pay for medical? you have constant challenges. i am proud to sit here and say my mother was never on foodstuffs when i was a child. i watched her struggle every day. i feel light right now we need to have a conversation on the things that are wrong. why is it that when a person enters the job force, if they made $.50 over, their food stamps are cut and in their tanf is taken away.

technology, why is it i go to the. office and they get a receipt and they tell me they have gotten my food work -- my paperwork. a month later and my caseworker has no knowledge. we need to make sure we get the caseworkers so we are not treated like unhuman as individuals and understand we are here for a moment, not for a lifetime. educational programs. we need to make sure we do not push people into these ready to work programs that simply do not work. we need to make sure we do not put people and to nursing programs to become a cna and cannot compete with the others in that category.

let's make sure it is ok for me and other people on public assistance to be able to open up a savings account so we can save money to on our own homes and safe for our children's college. instead of a caseworker say because you're of a savings account, you are not eligible. i feel light right now in america, there should be no child that goes hungry and no one that will have to see the troubles every day of not knowing. this photograph right here is a photo of my children. my children are everything to me. i would like to say we need to break the cycle. we need to make sure we all remember what the american dream is, providing family values. i am not a number or statistic or food stamp recipients. i am an individual lives in the

inner-city we just all happens to be writing now struggling. just as so many americans are struggling. we need to get back to the core values of remembering we are people. not looked at as somebody on welfare and is lazy and wants to collecting benefits. i never wake up every day and say, i want to be on public assistance. this is a picture of my husband and children on father's day. as you see behind me, my father is behind me and he is a strong african-american man who can relate to everybody in this room and gets up every day and goes to work. he made sure he wants the same thing that you want for your children. safe and affordable housing. there should be no decision made without someone sitting at the table who was going to struggle. thank you so much. >> how old are your kids? >> my twins are six and my son is 10. >> i want to start with you

tianna. i am really interested in what you mean when you talk about the cliff and you said before, you have given this example about the babysitting for a friend for $40 and you can you -- you can lose your a welfare check. a lot of these programs are layered on top of each other, not connected. you have the situation where you could have a cold cut off all benefits if you earn some money. give me a sense of how you see this cliff and what it does to people and kind of the wrong incentives it gives and more importantly, just a better way of coordinating? should we have a smoother system so that people do not face these cliffs? what kind of decisions are they forcing upon people? >> it does not encourage people

to have saving accounts. they put their money under mattresses because they're scared their caseworker will find out. i was getting $793 in food stamps. once i began working and the first cut went through, i went to $220. when a second income went through, i went to $200. >> did you make more with your paycheck? >> no, i was working. i do not want to be on cash benefits. i wanted to go out there and work. as soon as i got right there to start being able to put a little away and do things with my children and put them in camp, i was cut just like that. i feel like we should padden the program and make sure just because a person may make $.10 over the guidelines, they should

not lose everything right away. there should be measurements. you should measure and see where a person and not push them to get a job, get a job. once you get a job, you lose your childcare and cut off all food stamps. it assumes i air think is right from the media. -- it seems like things are pulled from underneath you. >> i am very intrigued with the model that catholic charities has done with case management. walk us through this. what does it look like? what is the relationship between case management and the client/recipient? what ratio you strive for? how could the federal government do a better job as encouraging? the biggest concern is it is cookie-cutter, it's cold, treats every body the same. it needs to be more customized and human.

you are doing that. what does it look like? what can the government do? >> thank you for that question. making sure you will higher private organizations, hiring plate -- case manager that have a heart for the client and a deep understanding of how to work with folks of for a mindset change but also creating this idea you can get out and giving them the encouragement every step of the way. to be successful as an assessment of understanding a client and then a plan developed to take into account what are your strengths? sometimes we treat clients like they are full of deficits. what are your strengths, what access do you possess and what did you needed to gain? we have been moving forward in a

new highlight, what does success really look like? what are we trying to achieve? we made a change internally, making a way so you actually support your family and not on any public benefits or social benefits. have three months of savings and no debt. the biggest thing the federal government could do is allow us to serve it more holistically by allowing us to pull more together. we need time to work with folks. >> like what? >> about a two-year process. cost effectiveness of putting the money into case management and then savings with a

decreasing and public benefits makes it a very economically -- >> the key is to customize? there are people who are situational and that could be quick, right? >> refugee situational. >> generational, you need more time. whether an associate degree or ged. when we see customized case management, what we should be thinking about is this person might have transportation or daycare problems and that person might have education and food problems. being able to customize the benefit to tailor their specific needs. >> absolutely. if you are looking at you want to get somebody out of poverty,

your goals are how to plan and leverage and figure out where there are opportunities that help them build so they can accomplish. many times if it is something like an associates degree or certificate, that takes time. >> the problem you have for the federal government is a patchwork quilt of programs that are out there with a different cut offs and requirements that you had to spend this time navigating that. if you have more flexible benefits you could customize, that's what you are trying to do? >> absolutely. they may qualify for something else. >> let me ask you the last question. i visited your location in d.c. it is amazing to watch for the people leave with a job and get on the ladder of life. if there something you could do to change the federal aid system, what would it be? i know you afford with counties and cities, if there were one or two things you can change to

facilitate the transition, what are the things you would do? >> thank you for your compliments first off all. i mentioned accountability and best champion of everywhere. and when it comes to things like time limits and at heather was saying with case management and ensuring it is individualized and at as what we do. everybody has a different set and educational set and people are from all different walks of life from where they are in the nation and we have to make sure everybody is getting that service and we will continue to do that. championing that and accountability would be a great benefit. >> lets me get back to measurement. how do you measure success? we have long complained we have

input measurement system, the war on poverty for a lack of a better phrase. we measure input and how much money and how many programs we are creating versus outcomes. how many people are we truly getting out of poverty in a lasting way? it is that outcome measurement that is new. you had the institute at notre dame doing that, not only there but around the country. what are some of the keys of measuring success? what does it look like? is it the original design of the program that is key? we want to have a system but we do not want to chase statistics and metrics and things like that. we do not want to chase some spreadsheet. so a bureaucrat can say my job is done. are they in a self-sufficient lifestyle is a want to obtain?

obtain?they want to >> one of the most important ideas is not just a evaluation and outcomes but the research. that is why we are partnering with notre dame. what they're able to do, we have a control group and treatment group. most of us in the nonprofit sector are saying no to people every day because the resources are limited. we have a control group that we can provide. what happens is we bring the economies of notre dame and what they're able to do is not only see if the program matters because if they do not have the program, what would have happened? having a treatment and intervention group allows you to tell if not for the intervention, the famines would not have improved. federal investment into more rigorous research and evaluation with a large sample sizes and if we are seeing something that is

working, how do we scale up to a national level? so we can see if it works and if it doesn't -- >> that gets into the program -- don't put me in a program that is proven to fail. >> that is a right. >> mr. van holland? >> thank you for your testimony today. it has been very instructive. i want to start with ms. gaines-turner antiwar for being here and i want to thank -- thank you for being here and i want to thank congresswoman barbara lee. we're asking if you were talking about, if you put aside something to save and you may no longer qualify for food and nutrition benefits. for benefit of our colleagues, we do see the cliffs that is something all of us would support especially on the democratic side.

it may end up costing more money. what you are saying and said being cut off from food and nutrition programs, we do start saving, you would be allowed to save and also receive your nutrition benefits unto you get to a point where you're family is truly at a living wage. >> exactly. i want to be very clear on what i am saying. i have been hearing a couple of things about generational poverty. i feel like that's the main reason i am sitting here. you want to break the cycle of that. the federal programs running right now are not working. i do not want a status to be involved and tell me when i can join a certain program. i feel like that is not the way to go. accountability, we need to hold

a big company like walmart and target accountable for not paying their employees enough to where they can have medical benefits. a lot of these big companies limit their employees to a certain amount of hours so they do not have to offer medical. we need to make sure they have paid sick leave. i want to make sure i cleared up a couple of things. i do not want anybody to misconstrue what i was saying. >> thank you. just on the budget point we are the budget committee, addressing this issue's require resources. to reduce what the chairman said the cliff may involve more resources.

at the same time, our colleagues have proposed a budget that allow deeper cuts. it is important to take the comprehensive review of this. while it is very important to figure out whether case management is the best approach of all of them require resources. some require more. and some may require more up front to get savings potentially down the road. if you could talk a little bit about the impact of the affordable care act has had on your family. i saw that in your written testimony a you may not have had time to talk about in your oral testimony. can you talk about how it has provided additional help for you

and your family? >> the affordable care act has definitely helped me and my husband and i am appreciative. for a long time, i was paying out of pocket to go to the doc are. i paying $75 for a doctor visit and getting a prescription, i had no medical coverage. i pay 75 does to go to the doctor and now i have to figure how i will pay for the prescription. i will go about getting the adequate medical because i did not qualify. only my children qualified. now that me and my husband are working, we are both working part-time jobs, our hours fluctuate. i was able to get quality medical through obamacare. it is very important. we need obama care. i know right now people want to cut obamacare and they are challenging to look into cutting and i would like for you to look at me and my husband as a prime example. if you cut that program, you're

cutting away to make sure that i am here and do the job i need to do as a mother. >> i want to pick up on a point was that you are working in now, correct? and your husband? >> correct. >> your combined income is still not sufficient to provide a living wage for a family. >> correct. >> what would happen -- while you are working, you are receiving food and attrition? what would be the impact on you and your children if you were to lose that food and nutrition? >> it would be a bigger struggle. i am already struggling unknown to pay the rent. the bills coming in, gas, water, electric. if i lose the food stamps, money taken away from the bills and my children to buy food. i do not know how much more i can say is. no one lives in poverty once to stay -- wants to stay on government assistance programs. we want to be independent and work are hard and believe in the american dream, if i get up

everyday day and we work and my husband worked, will have the same jobs, benefits, wages as everyone else. that is the most important thing to us. i am -- a lot of people say, well, they do not need food stamps. it is not working. this person is abusing this program. let's not go there. there are a lot of different programs we can talk about that have been abused that have been passed through. and they are not held accountable. >> i thank you for your testimony and why it is so important to have somebody who is currently struggling with these questions and the impact of some of the proposed cuts would have.

mrs. reynolds, if i could ask you and thank you for the good work you do around the country. you mentioned that the larger share of your federal funding, from refugee assistance area. i would like to take this opportunity to ask you for the status report of your efforts on refugee assistance to stop we are currently facing this crisis, this border. i want to read for the benefit, made by national catholic charities, a little earlier. one year ago today the senate passed a comprehensive bill moving closer to an immigration process. but have not had a chance to vote in the house. in the meantime, we have this crisis on the border. could you talk about catholic charities review of this issue? i noticed your chapter has sent

out alerts to all the members of the texas congressional delegation urging to increase refugee assistance which will be part of the president's emergency supplemental request. share what you are doing and your views. you are from texas. >> thank you for that question. our hearts go out to the kids on the border because we have had the opportunity to work with, their shares of the horrible stories. we had a 70 year old girl who was in our shelter recently who talked about how her neighborhood friends would go missing and appear dead on the doorstep with her organs missing. the counselor they are giving us is quite daunting. our organization is a longtime

provider of refugee since the vietnam war. we have been a longtime provider of welfare services. because of that, we were approached. about 18 months ago to start using our shelter for some of these children. we began about 18 months ago working with eight of these kids and there are eight beds. and we were approached again and we have increased beds. june 30 of this year, we increased to 32 beds. we converted office space into beds. we were able to do our part. we can have about 400 kiddos who can come through. our main goal is to make sure they are taken care of. many have been trafficked and their journey has been amazing.

recently, we had a three-year-old girl and i have a daughter and i cannot imagine letting her across the street without me. the journey that i've been on has been a tragedy and a blessing for us to step up and help. >> thank you for your organization in that area. >> i wanted to commend you for continuing this series on the war on poverty and what works and what it does not and i want to thank all of the witnesses for sharing your personal stories about how we are moving in the right direction. there is a common theme if we listen and if it works with one individual and poverty and you work with one. all folks needed to be treated with the individualized regimen. factors were case management comes in.

mrs. reynolds, i was impressed by your testimony. i want to drill down if we made, you separate out categories of poverty. chronic, situational, generational. can you talk about the percentages are? do you have a breakdown of where people fit in? >> i do not. i would say our organization is more anecdotal. for example, we have a largest senior housing program funded by hud. those seniors are low income, many have extensive disabilities, mental health issues. we need to provide them a place to live. and people in chronic poverty are not able to get jobs. we help them build community. we see a fair number in situational poverty but a large number are generational. >> the success rate varies between those three categories? >> it does. success looks different.

success will look like -- it is about ensuring they live with dignity. chronic and situational, that as one of the big reasons we are launching our pilot to study that a lot more and understand a lot more to look at time of war as we proceed. >> what are the incentives, if you could talk about the incentives in the current program? >> what is your job? >> right now i work with young the things that help us with is client out of poverty motivation, working on development of the claim. assessing them after the series of assets we believe they need to possess in order to move out of are pretty. setting goals of they can have quick wins medium and long-term

four-pronged strategy of what out of poverty looks like. >> how does that compare to the standard program of anti-poverty? are so many federal programs that are anti-poverty salute would be difficult... generally. you have public assistance programs talking about output. you have some programs like a lot of the refugee programs which i believe are a good model getting to a good white of self-sufficiency and no longer being able to depend on that. of inhing else is kind between. it can be shelter beds, helping children thrive, a variety of things. i'm impressed with america works. i'm wondering if you would 96 reform act the and compare that work requirement and how you think it's important or not to successful outcomes.

i think the work requirement is quite important. it allows organizations like america works to provide individualized assistance to ensure we address any of the case management issues we have discussed here today. the work requirement is important for anyone deemed eligible to work and that is where the government comes in where they screen people to make sure they are eligible to work. then we are looking at people receiving social security disability. they cannoten told work and it's about matching them to an appropriate position and we have done that for the last seven years was social security beneficiaries. approach isalized so important because it allows us the opportunity to hear what this individual is going

through. they may not be heard to the caliber they expect when they go to apply for benefits or they go to recertify. do you think your program is scalable? we could build it up? >> absolutely. thank you. >> there is no doubt in my mind that if we put them in a room to address the same th be of the meetings we would having in here that the three of youregardless of , yourence of opinions would come up with a better solution than we would come up with. let's get this straight right

now. the two parties want to do something about this problem. we have widely differing ideas about what direction we should go in. the culture ofes poverty. you better examine the culture of the congress. poverty means there is an essential part of poverty that will continue inevitably. hand, how do we help people become self-sufficient? that's an interesting term -- self-sufficient. how do you become self-sufficient?

do children 3, 4, five years old become self-sufficient? how do seniors in their later years? how do the infirm, the mentally challenged, the chronically unemployed? i have self-sufficient coming out of my ears and it does not do what you three people do day in and out. so thank you for what each of you do. according to not my analysis, , the budget that this house of representatives fines 69% of the budget trillion over the , it cuts ityears for people with low and moderate

incomes. you can pontificate all you want. let's deal with the reality of what we have to deal with. listen very carefully. but what you need an catholic charities. i'm very familiar with catholic charities. it's a great job you do all over, not just in fort worth. those cuts are vital for us to understand. and medicaid, culture of poverty , the snap program. do all of you know what it is? the social services block grant which provides states with funding for meals on wheels programs anddental child care for low income workers. it includes $125 billion in pell grants giving them the ability

to break the cycle of poverty. fulcher of poverty. we will always have poor people. be our incentive to try to do something about the mess that exists out there. with children, the infirm, those people who are mentally rner,enged, ms. gaines-tu let me ask you a question. your children receive health coverage through thechip program? >> it is a medical assistant program. it's the department of public welfare. what happened if we cut the program and you would not be able to happen? >> i have three children with seizure disorders.

they have to take medication twice per day. all three have asthma and take medication every day. thank you for testifying today. please try to help us change the congress of the united states. we hope we listen to all three of you. thank you very much. i also thank the witnesses for their testimony. this is the fifth hearing we've had on this and related subjects. i've learned a lot. it's no different today. i believe from hearing all the testimony that one of the reasons government and welfare programs can never and will never be able to match the kind of services that you provide is lack of relationship. a government program cannot love. a government program cannot

demand expectation. i want to talk about that a little bit. if i understood your testimony correctly, we want to break that cycle. you want to break that cycle. to get offot want these programs necessarily. i understand the cliff and there are ways to soften it, perhaps. by 300%,e to increase -- in theseor grams programs, by definition they would then be out of poverty and that would be a good thing or a bad thing? thing ifld be a good they were moved out of poverty in the right way. do not push them out of poverty. programs you put in and then you cut them.

just take my theoretical example. the programs work and it would be good. >> the tendency would certainly still be there. the cycle of dependency. you would not be independent. >> i'm independent now on the program. be veryer myself to independent. i work as hard as anyone in this room. >> i'm not challenging you. you say you are independent but you say you have to have these programs and you need them. >> i said these programs work to help people who are and struggling situations. if a person loses their job and they become unemployed --

my situation? >> what is your job? >> right now i work with young children in a recreation center. i have to make sure they're doing their home work, after-school program. my husband works at a -- >> what's your pay amount? >> my pay is $10.88 an hour. >> your husband works at a grocery store and that's full time as well? >> yes. my job is full time. but my job is also limited. i'm a seasonal employee so i work for six months with my job. >> ok. is that by choice so you can spend more time with your kids in the other six months or have you tried to find other employment? >> i have had to find other employment but due to health issues i have not had -- >> your testimony you're a ward chairman in philadelphia's inner city. is that a paid position? >> no, it's volunteer. >> is that a partisan position? >> i do and make sure that people understand the importance

of votes -- >> member of a republican party or democratic party? >> i'm a democrat. >> it's volunteer. it was a precinct? >> yes, volunteer. >> with the minute i have left i want to switch gears a little bit and talk about the work opportunity tax credit. ms. tiller or ms. reynolds, are any of you two familiar with this? justice a lot of folks come into my office and say it's effective in helping people -- incentivizing employers to hire low-income people or folks that might -- that are an ex-felon and they get a credit for hiring and training them and keeping them on the job. seems to me like a good thing. and then there are others that says it's not so good. i want to get your impressions of the program. is it complementry to the work you do? is it a better incentive?

>> we make sure that we inform all of our participants, all of the individuals about the work opportunity tax credit and i've heard both sides as well. with the ex-offenders that i work with consistently, there's some embarrassment because the way the application process is when you're filling out an application for an employer, what is your felon status, what is your misdemeanor status, things of that nature. potentially i think there could be a benefit down the road. i think we need to re-evaluate in essence how we're getting to the point that the business would accrue that credit. >> thank you. time has expired. the gentlelady from wisconsin,

ms. moore, is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chair. let me make an opening statement given the last exchange between one of our colleagues and mrs. gaines-turner with regard to dependency. just recently -- and friday we are going to be working on yet another tax extender where apparently we are going to extend $614 billion in tax extenders on a permanent -- make them permanent and put businesses on a permanent welfare. these bills -- the latest, the bonus depreciation, was temporary in nature to stimulate the economy. but yet they want to add $287 billion to the deficit. i want to put this in the record with your permission, mr. chairman, just to clear that up. >> without objection. >> i also want to clear some other things up, without objection. clear some other things up about the -- because i feel like we've had great testimony from all three of you, but the

conversation was sort of trying to steer some of our witnesses into saying that they're just absolutely too many programs and if they had more flexibility that they could do a better job. i certainly agree, for example -- and ms. reynolds, the case management approach. certainly agree with america works which recently came to milwaukee, some of the things that you do. but be clear, when they talk about flexibility they're talking about cutting the $299 billion medicaid program that you may need in order to help situational or generational poverty or the infermed or disabled people. the testimony you read for us, ms. tiller, the young woman -- i think she was probably still on medicaid after she got her job at the fast food restaurant. so you, you know, i n'