core standards initiative and the role on u.s. education policy. plus, your phone calls, facebook comments and tweets. journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. set to leavema is on an overseas trip to estonia before making his way to wales to participate in this week's nato summit. the president is expected to take some time this week to visit pupils at a welsh school. backamerican students are in class by today to start a new school year. most of today's show will be devoted to education issues. we will explore the debate over the common core and the role of local school boards in the

education landscape. first, we are opening the phone lines to ask for your ideas on the best way to improve education in the united states. atents and students can call (202) 585-3880. educators can call at (202) 585-3881. you can catch up with us on all of your social media pages on twitter. you can send us an e-mail. a good tuesday morning to you. taste of the back-to-school stories. here's the front page of the richmond times. local children in the

richmond, virginia area head back to school today. the front page story -- ahead of the class, students head back to school. sandpoint high school being highlighted in that story. "the atlantic journal-constitution" talked about the end of year testing. here is the press telegram out of long beach and california. school uniforms still in style after 20 years is one of the headlines. -- new are being conversation on schools is being sought. there is an aim of encouraging more fact-based national discussion about the challenges of public education and possible solutions.

peter cunningham is the former who iscations guru leading this organization, backed with grants totaling $12 million from a variety of benefactors. at some level, it feels as if people are screaming at each other from across the aisle. we can have differences of opinion about policies, but they should be based on facts, not fear. education secretary, he appeared at jefferson academy middle school. [video clip] >> dropout rates are at all-time lows.

hundreds of thousands of additional students graduate from high school. african-american dropout rates cut by about 45%. this is not where we want to be. not where it should be, but it is real progress. that does not happen without committed teachers and principals. a nation, we are going the right way. we want to get better. we want to get better faster. , for theid repeatedly first time ever, we are predicting our schools will be majority-minority. seeing me graduation -- seeing the graduation rates climb and dropout rates drop, our nation needs those job creators. our nation does not keep people

-- does not need people without the skills to compete. the collective effort is extraordinary. i am proud of the progress. host: several high-profile thinkers spent parts of the august month talking about education issues. at theckabee spoke national hispanic christian leadership conference. he talked about relying too much on the federal government alone to educate students. here is what he had to say. [video clip] has care when every student equal access to an excellent education. where there is no such thing as a student required or destined to go to an underperforming school. that should never be accepted or tolerated. whether thematter

skin is black, brown, red, or white. there is no such thing as a disposable child. country isnt in this a part of making us everything we can be. my reason i stand here with is because raising academic standards is not simply the role of the school and it is certainly not the role of the government. they have a role, but students are not dry cleaning. parents cannot drop them off in the morning and pick them up in the afternoon wrinkle and spot free. we have to remind parents that it is a biblical mandate for the parents to raise the children and to accept the responsibility for the outcome of their students. it goes back to the proverbs.

way hep a child in the should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it. as life fundamental itself and it was never acceptable nor is it now, for us to say that we will give the responsibility of the education of our children to the government and hope for the best. it will not end well. host: mike huckabee last month. this morning, we are asking viewers for thoughts on the best way to improve education in the united states. phone lines are open. here in students can call and at (202) 585-3880. educators, (202) 585-3881. for employers, those who hire students coming out of school. we want to know what you are looking for as you are hiring the students coming out of school. that number is (202) 585-3882. all others can call in at (202) 585-3883.

we will take your thoughts throughout the first 45 minutes. we will start with david from new york. good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are a parent. caller: yes. my children have finished their academic journey. a lot of things i believe are happening in the country, from what i see, it needs to be redone. they are looking at these micro-issues and there have been a lot of school closings in this area. they have tried to make these big conglomerate schools and they need to start and look at the whole system and revamp it. children,s with the also. starting early in the morning, they should look at the way that children learn best. when you wake a child up at 6:00 in the morning to get on a bus, to go to school, it makes for a long day. the retention level is very low. host: what are your thoughts on

school choice? the ability to go to charter schools and some other school choice options out there. caller: that is what i was saying. they closed a lot of the little schools in the communities and tried to -- from uneconomic an economic- from standpoint, build these big schools. they are going in a totally different direction, which limits the choice. host: david, new york. for parents. line we have lines for parents, students, teachers, business owners who might hire students coming out of school. we want to know what you think and what you're are looking for out of employees. the subject of school choice, it is the topic of a piece today in the washington times by ed .ulner

he writes about school choice in his column. he says school choice is helping more and more children get the best education possible and putting the teachers union on notice that the failed status quo is no longer excessive -- acceptable. number taking advantage of option such as vouchers, it tuition tax credit programs and education savings accounts has gone from fewer than 200,000 today. the idea that you have no choice but to attend the school closest to where you live or the school that the authorities assigned to you is absurd, blatantly anti-american. that is the piece in "the washington times." we want to get your thought on the best way to improve

education. randy, up next, calling in from millington. good morning. thank you and all of the fine folks behind the scenes that we do not get to see that put on the show. host: we appreciate that. go ahead. caller: i was on the school board in our town for six years. we need to go to core curriculum. the biggest argument i have heard against core curriculum is the first thing they will say -- it tells the teacher how to teach. it does not. --has you teach the classes in the fifth-grade, you should be teaching these classes all through the nation. and does not tell the teacher how to teach the class. we need the imagination and energy, but you have to have standards. i have listened to school board

members that would have the civil war being won by the south and a whole lot of different other stuff. we need the standards. core standards -- core curriculum does not tell the teacher how she has to teach the subject. is the subject we are teaching in that particular grade. we can stay a society and keep moving up. host: the way the debate has gone over the core standards, especially in the past year or so, lawsuits teen filed by state governors, we will talk about that later. i want to get your thoughts. caller: i have had talks with people from pennsylvania and i get the same argument -- it tells the teacher what she has to teach -- or how to teach. it does not tell her how to teach. it does not tell them how to teach. what it does say is in the fifth grade, these are the classes we are going to teach. a child, i can take

from millington, michigan and move them to phoenix, arizona, and that school and grade they go into, those will be the subjects they are teaching at that time. the teacher in phoenix may teach the subject different than the one in millington, but that to phoenix and the child will never lose a step in their educational process. that will improve the nation overall. host: thank you for the call. we want to talk about these subjects and your ideas for the best way to improve education in the united states in the first 45 minutes of "washington journal." you can share your thoughts on twitter. the best way to improve education is not lowering pay for teachers. gabl3.r tweet from r3no

invest more in education than war is the suggestion. bee writes in -- ascended the students for an actual eight hours of school a day. another tweet -- parents should be teaching values. schools should be teaching reading, writing, and mathematics. one lead editorial is about pre-k education taking off in new york city. the start of the public school day in new york should be the usual scramble of chattering ed (oren and stress relieved) parents. worth noting what an

accomplishment this is. 50,000 is a small city's worth the children. so many families will save the cost of day care or private prekindergarten. we are getting your thoughts. william, asheville, north carolina. he is on the line for educators. caller: good morning. i would like to talk about school choice. i like school choice, however, i think school likee should be determined we used to do when my children went to private school in the 1970's and 1980's, when my brother's children went to private school and my sisters went to private schools.

i am telling all african americans, do not be fooled by school choice. it is probably a little bit of de facto segregation. my sistersck when and my children and my brothers children went to private school, we paid for it out of our own pockets. there were no vouchers for us to go to private school. there to college when were no student loans. i started out in 1963 as a freshman. this thing of giving people to go to school, especially to elementary and secondary schools, i think it is wrong. piecei should note -- a we showed earlier, the number of students taking advantage of vouchers and tuition tax credit programs for this school choice

has gone from fewer than 50,000 in 2000 to more than 300,000 today. it is still taking money out of my pocket. if you want your child to go to a private school, why don't you do as we used to do years ago? a for it out of your own pocket. my wife and i paid for it. and hisr -- my brother wife paid for. i do not like my taxpayer money being spent that way. randy,p next, williamsburg, virginia. also on the line for educators this morning. tank you for calling in. caller: good morning. i have a small business that operates in schools and i have made over 1000 school site visits with my business. andrk mostly with health

p.e. when i am in schools. it is hard for me to understand how they take three to four months off of a year in pursuing their own health and wellness. so often, i see staff out of shape and cannot lead a health and wellness class and have healthy outcomes. i would say that the teachers need to work all year round just as much as the students. host: you said you work on some of these issues in schools. what do you think of the efforts to get sugary snacks and soft drinks out of school vending machines? caller: you can't control the outside of school,

so that is where a lot is being ingested. l,en if you have crappy fue your car still runs. what i am suggesting is kids need activities that our brain-growing. you cannot argue the science these days. it is the activity itself. sadly, we are building buildings that are the most expensive, which is the gymnasium. the only thing they are good for is a basketball game, five on five. schools are not auditing the space to see the real value in the community. with sports, on average, it is $1000 per sport per child. though students are often the same, playing one, too, and

three sports. heftystudents will have a amount of money, $3000 more spent on them on a nonacademic pursuit. randy was talking about the health issues. on the story of michelle obama's efforts to get sugary snacks out of schools, a recent story on this noted that it risked being seen as a government intrusion. this is the first year that the full impact of the crusade to stop kids and teachers from snacking will be realized. hunters from the healthy free kids school act. ger-free kidsn school act.

theact allows the usda opportunity to make real reforms to the school lunch and breakfast programs by improving vertical nutrition and hunger safety net for millions of children. criticalproving nutrition and hunger safety net for millions of children. kids are sick of michelle obama's nutrition nannies. we are talking about education issues. california.rosa, bill is a parent. good morning. caller: one of the best things we can do to improve education is to give more control to the local principals. ise control over how money spent, the details of the curriculum. i would like to see school

boards and states send more andd categories and goals leave more of the details, if possible, to the local school principalities. i got some of these ideas from a ofk i found -- "the secrets tsl." another point in the book is that fewer students -- a teacher in total as a predictor of the success of the students.

they can leverage the knowledge for more than just the one year. different ideas blossom. it will help a lot. host: you may want to stick around for the next segment. we will be joined by thomas gentzel. i am sure he will talk about some of the issues you bring up. falls church,bi, virginia. caller: good morning. i am a first-time caller. i have been listening for a long time. i appreciate this. -- parents.we have we do not raise the kids as our parents raised us. we work hard. we raise the kids by the telephone and tv.

the parents have to give the powers to the local schools. we are losing well-educated jobs . [indiscernible] you. we are losing give us a call back in and we will try to get you back on. let's go to carlton, hampton, virginia. he is on our line for teachers. caller: good morning. i am happy to be on the program. am an african-american male who has tried for 10 years to get certified to teach in the school system. in my state, i realize that teaching is not an occupation,

but a calling. it is for people who really want to do and really want to service a country. me being a prior serviceman, i had the desire to serve the country. i realized in my state, we are wee to fix whatever ills have with the educational process. however, we have a problem. i will speak from a military point of view, where we, as x soldiers, are led into the -- as theoldiers, are led into education system that we use our military benefits to get educated and why comes down to certification, we cannot get certified after we finish these programs. host: why is that? caller: it is a systemic type thing rooted in the structure. if you say that the teacher cannot pass a test after they

finished four years of preparing for it, is it the test or is it the preparation? there is no reason why if a person finishes a full academic course that they cannot pass a test which will certify them to teach. that is a lot of black men left out. you: how many times have tried to take the certification test? caller: i cannot tell you. the preparation is economic. you have to pay to take the tests. they changed the goalposts. few more tweaks on suggestions on the way to improve education in the united states. rick says to treat teachers like the valuable asset they are by paying them. tweet -- i'm sorry we have already read that one.

calls anding your comments. we have changed up power lines a bit this morning. one other clip i wanted to play for you. executivee education director. the work onssing studying american attitudes towards public education. findings fromt that work. [video clip] in the last year, we have conducted more research on education than any organization we can encode. summarize some of the things i have learned in the it is safe to say

that something we are doing is wrong. to be careful about what we mean when we say something is very wrong. that is a lot of stuff going well. i wonder if we have not started to become incredibly negative about schools, teachers, education. an americanjust phenomenon. the whole world is worried about what is happening with education systems from kindergarten or career. learnedg we have always is that even though americans, when you ask them about public schools nationally, they are pretty negative about it. kids in school, they have glowing ratings. are we doingk how

nationally, you think not so good. what about your kids' school? to what we know about congress. we have no confidence in congress. if you ask about congressman or congresswoman, they love them. we are getting your thoughts for the next 15 minutes or so on the best way to improve education. let's go to a student. moe, richmond, virginia. caller: hello. [indiscernible] they teach us these things to keep us busy. we should be learning how to get a job and prepare for life. jobs require experience, but how do you get experience when you're first -- when you're

forced to go through programs to try to get into a school. what do you want to do? what do you wish you are learning in school to prepare you for a career? caller: a lot of the things they teach us does not make sense, like what is the point of certain math problems? most things we learn in math and different things -- we have to take 12 different jim classes -- gym classes. i should be learning how to do my resume and make connections instead of doing busy work. host: if you had your pick of any job, what would you do? caller: marketing. host: why would you do that? caller: i am interested in the way other people see things. i feel like i would be able to .o that

host: we appreciate the call. we have lines for students, parents, and also lines for employers. we want to know what employers are looking for when they look to hire students coming out of school. on that line, robert, rochester, new york. that young lady had an interesting point. the state mandates -- you can return it to more of a microcosm, one room school houses, to really get involved. the hip-hopn lifestyle are going nowhere until the circus act going down to school cleans itself up. mtve kids are inundated by and snoop dogg. it is not going to happen. kids in rochester cannot read a tape.

they cannot tell me half an inch from an inch and one quarter. work for me any longer. i tried. i had some apples. i had sandwiches, drinks, made up paper money to show them how the money system works. they still did not get it. attitudes, going to the schoolhouse in the morning, i don't blame the teachers or the public school system. to changee going society to clean your brain up to know that you are going into loser territory? that is where it is. have a good day. are hearing from parents and teachers and students. we are asking the best way to improve education in the united states. timothy as a parent from petersburg, virginia. myler: thank you for taking call. i have a radical approach for education. take the 12th grade

and offer it as a vocational route for those who want to take vocational studies. take 12 great for those that plan to go to college and they should have the right to attend community college. we will continue to fund that threw the money that we save by eliminating 12th grade. this will open up the doors where will decrease dropout rates. more parents will see the value of kids having the opportunity to go the vocational route, as well as the opportunity to start college. high riseiminate the prices that colleges continue to put upon the public people. we already funded the college system. kids should have the right or opportunity to attend college. with the elimination of 12th grade, it would give everybody -- they would know that they are going and they need to continue

to stay the route. the second thing is, -- host: just so i can understand, what a first-year of college be free if you chose the college route or would you have to do the euro vocational route? caller: college would be free. for those who want to continue the vocational route, nursing, lumping, they continue that vein. those that plan to go to college would enter the first year of college where we take care of the preliminary courses. toryone that goes college knows you take a test and most kids fail the test. taken 10 orty $20,000 of your money and you are just taking remediation courses. this will alleviate that. host: this would be after the junior year taking the college classes.

do you think high school students in the 16-year-old or are up tod range that? caller: that is the challenge. powerfuldevelop more students. there be internet courses throughout school. you know that our kids can do more if they had the opportunity to do so. i believe local school system should follow the college system. they can offer on line courses where the kids do not have to be in class, but they can be beside their parents doing an online course where they can learn more information, just like the young lady who wanted to be in marketing. thatn have online courses will cater to her marketing so she can learn about the field. are not utilizing more teachers or taking resources from anybody. homes andn their own

they can learn from courses or classes. we are going to have a new educational system. tomust meet the challenge get the information to you in an inexpensive manner. a few more tweaks happening on the conversation. the best way to improve --cation is to get several is to get federal dollars out of it. education -- one, school choice. two, vouchers. three, competition for public schools. four, calvin ability. five, disempower unions. another says parents need to be in control and they need to pay the cost. the best way to improve education in the united states, one other piece i want to point

out for you today. this is from junan williams. congress is facing rising call to reject the status quo in education. it creates new possibilities in congress. new players are primed to bring energy to the debate. the biggest change coming in the senate. is retiring at the end of his term. he says that could open the ofir up for michael bennet colorado. he is a supporter of school reform. he favors paying teachers based on performance. theepublicans gain ofority, it could be one

those who support charters and vouchers. we will go to shawn and washington, d.c. an educator. good morning. caller: i am a kindergarten teacher. d.c. is ane in apartheid school system, where you have a lot of neoliberal pro-competition forces in southeast and you have the more affluent public schools in northwest, able to race through additional $500,000 to support additional programs. this movement has been propagated by republicans and posit from all of

the public money in the education system. as a teacher in the southeast, the poverty is most distractive and it is also the idea that my profession can be reduced to a test score. experiments, they have failed. all evidence proves they have failed. up next on the line for employers. he is calling in from kentucky. good morning. would give you this observation. i run a software company. i advertise for a position for an engineer. i get 30 applicants. will be foreign-born. maybe two or three are us-based. there not producing

science, math, and software engineers that our country needs. my response to this, we are creating our own school system in this town. our own school that will emphasize the stem, science, , engineering, math subjects. when you are trying to hire people, they are not there. they are not coming out of our school systems qualified. it start foroes you? high school? college? how far back do you think we need to go to change the concerns you have? junior high and high school. we have emphasis on preschool and head start, which is basically early institutionalization of these kids. they need to be home with their parents, unless we are just warehousing them.

down in junior high and high school. their minds are turning onto technology and science. there is so much opportunity in those fields and we are not educating them or exciting them. we do not have qualified teachers or teachers aware of what to teach, how to teach it, how to frame it, how to excite the kids. is juniorm i think high and high school. there is an over emphasis on preschool and warehousing. ronald writes in, the best way to improve education is to follow the south korean model where students spend more time in schools. moreve time for a few calls. i also want to tell you about other news around the country. some news from late last night

out of the pentagon. strike inarried out a somalia, according to "the washington post." they carried out a strike against al-shabaab in somalia. it was unclear whether the operation was successful. the results of the the resultssessing of the operation will provide additional information as and when appropriate. the story notes that the government's voice of america news service, which broadcasts programs to somalia, reported that a target of the attack may have been the alleged mastermind of al-shabaab's attack on an upscale shopping mall in nairobi. the nato summit is happening this week in wales. here is a story about it.

nato has its hands full at summit. is, ebola all top issues. the thursday summit is clearly the most important one since the fall of the berlin wall. summit, the subject of the lead editorial of the financial times editorial board. nato alliance goes back to the future. the summit will be among the most momentous in the 65 year history. primary role to return to what it was before the cold war. nato leaders must spell out how they will achieve this. one suggestion they give is to look to base more troops in eastern europe.

summit as itato happens. we want to get to your calls. we have a couple of minutes left. the best way to improve education in the u.s. marie, converse, texas. marie is a parent. go ahead. left.e a minute or two caller: so many thoughts. it is not just one answer and how to improve education. there was a gentleman who spoke about teaching the same cop -- same topics across grades and countries y. i agree with that. the method we used to teach our students are not methods bringing us into today. children and students are being faced with is different than how we used to learn.

there was a gentleman talking about testing. tests are not different. they are the same. we get the same results when folks take tests. everyone does not take tests well. it has to do with the message we put out. we need to be able to reach more students and not put students in a box. i had a son who was very smart. he was the ap student. he was more active. he was not the sit in the corner, be quiet student, there was a problem with him. it was not that he was not getting the grades or following directive or that he was in trouble all the time. teachers were not able to teach them. because i need a different method for my son, then i am

looking for charter schools and private education for him. he needs to be taught in a different method to be able to cultivate and develop who he is, which is not the personality or the learning pattern that is in the box. dennis, miami, florida. also, a parent. caller: the lady that just called has the answer to the whole situation. it is called parental choice in the education of your children. toe of my children went neighborhood schools. we had eight kids when i was a child. we all went into the catholic system. why is it that back in those days when the typical classroom in a catholic school had 58 to thehildren in the class, schools were still two years ahead of the public schools for every class. the way to go forward -- we have to look to the past.

parental choice in the education of our children is the way to go. one size does not fit all. is what we have to have. parental choice in education. that is what is going to save america. in --dave humphrey writes privatize public school by giving each parent a voucher, enabling children to escape poorly performing schools. the first 45r minutes. we will discuss educational issues for most of today's show. we will begin next with thomas gentzel. role oftalk about the local school boards in today's educational debate. later, a roundtable on the common core. we will be right back. ♪

>> here's a look at some of our programming. on c-span tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, argument in the case of aclu versus clapper. a challenge to the national security agency's phone surveillance program. a northy night, carolina senate debate. at 8:00, a senate hearing on sexual assault on college campuses. schooly night at 8:00, lunch nutrition. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, coverage of the california governors debate. book tv, elizabeth drew talks about her book "washington journal." after words.night,

thursday, emily miller on her "emily gets her gun." tv, tonighthistory at 8:00 p.m. eastern, the battle of bladensburg and burning of ofhington in the war 1812. on wednesday, live coverage of a symposium marking the anniversary of the war. find our television schedule at known.org and let us what you think about the programs you are watching. us, leave us a tweet, or e-mail us. like us on facebook and follow us on twitter.

"washington journal" continues. host: joining us is thomas gentzel. as we dive into the topic of local school boards in the education debates, tell us about your group and its mission. a represents our state association of school boards. they are the ones that have the membership of the local school boards. local school boards are comprised of folks out of the community who have an interest in public education. they are usually elected. as a civic duty because they have a concern about good public schools. how many people are we talking about? guest: we have about 15,000 school district.

, in its own way, created something called the school board. mandate ora federal a requirement. they recognized the value of having people leaving the local education effort. host: how would you describe your organization's relationship secretary of education? guest: we work closely with the secretary. communication has been good. understand the importance of the role of local school boards in these overarching debates on the landscape of education in the united states? guest: i like to remind him. it is important. there is some tension between the federal role in education and the local school district role. there is always tension around that. there is probably more today

than in the past. it is important that schools are led at the community level. showscent gallup poll that people think the school boards should play the lead role in determining what is taught in public schools. only 15% said that about the federal government. we have to get to a place where we have a serious conversation about where the decisions are made and have people feel as though the schools and the communities are there schools. outpost of some federal agency, but they are the owners of the local schools. explain the flexibility act. thet: it is legislation in house and senate. it is designed to to try to limit the federal role.

see, and oure biggest concern that led to the legislation, is the decision-making at the federal level is coming out of the department and not through the normal regulatory process. we are seeing a lot of mandates and directives coming out of the department that are not necessarily based on the law. this is an effort to restore balance. it has attracted some bipartisan support and has generated a healthy conversation. led the support on capitol hill? where's the legislation in the process? aaron schock introduced the house bill. inhofe introduced it in the senate. it tries to frame the issue about how do we make good decisions about public education and engage all of the parties,

including local school boards in the process. what we have seen over the last number of years -- this is not just directed at the current administration -- we have seen a number of administration over a number of years, the growing federal role that dictates what happens in local schools. as we saw in the gallup poll results, the public is tired of that. we have to figure out a better way to have that conversation that we have had recently. host: if you want to join in on the conversation, you can give us a call. the phone lines are open. parents can call in at (202) 585-3880. teachers can call in at (202) 585-3881. a special line for school board members, (202) 585-3882. we would like to hear from you in this segment as we talk with the executive director of the national school board association. if you are) 585-3882

a member of a local school board. all others can call in at (202) 585-3883. we want to ask you one more question. would this legislation give school boards a de facto veto over rules coming out of the education department? talk about the concerns opponents have brought up. guest: it would not do that, just to be clear. we are talking about a process. andfederal government department of education wishes to impose new regulations. they need to be grounded in the law. goondly, they need to through a process that allows local school board members, superintendents, parents, teachers, to be able to comment on them before they are enacted into law. that has not been happening. we see more directives coming out of the federal department of education that has not gone through the process. that is the essence of the legislation, but not a veto.

questions for you coming over twitter. did the average local school board have the resources to collect and analyze global data to determine what u.s. kids need to do to keep up? have limitedchools resources. to do that kind of research and withare that research local officials, that is important. our concern is the over reaching issue. balanceeds to be a between what the federal government is doing, what local government, school district, and state governments. ant: some concerns over overreach when it comes to common core. can you talk about your stance on the common core standards? guest: our association supports strong academic standards for public schools, career and ready

standards. common core is one of those. there are other options that different states have been developing. that is important. effortcore began as an by the governors to come up with a joint set of standards they could subscribe to. we thought it was an important initiative. as we have seen in the latest gallup polls, there is concern about common core. there is a perception that the standards are being directed by washington. that is hurting a lot. the reality is, the standards to -- they can be helpful school districts in designing curriculum and how it is delivered. we need time to do that. we need time for teachers to be trained in for the curriculum to be put into place and to make sure it is done right. we are not quite there yet. host: we are talking with thomas gentzel. have a specific line if you

are a member of a school board. we would love to hear from you. the number is (202) 585-3882. otherwise, the numbers are on your screen and we will be getting to your calls. charles, woodbridge, virginia. good morning. i do not even know where to start when it comes to this subject. i have two points. attentionre what your -- the new programs, whatever, it all starts at the home. school environments -- a lot of kids respect for teachers and the principal. a lot of kids do not. schools have no power anymore, nobody cares about a student who talks d own a teacher in front of everyone else. when you lose that respect, students are not going to listen to you. we respected our teachers and we

had the respect of our principal -- and we respected our principal because he had the paddle. ult, by andome fa large. my kid got into hip-hop and we sent him into a military school. he went in with a 1.5 and came three.h a about schools working closely with parents. we are all in this together. we are concerned about the education of children. we need support. local school district need the support of parents in the community as they implement their programs. there are a number of examples -- i was thinking about schools

that have implemented dress codes for their students. they have done it with the support of parents. and they've seen pretty remarkable results from that. that's not the panacea. ut the larger point you're making is an important one. this is a collaborative effort. think school board members i've known over the years will be the first to say, they want to do this in cooperation with parents. that support is critical. host: we've been showing newspapers this morning from on nd the country back-to-school, and the stories kane county chronicle. this one is a strategy to thrive at r a leadership shake-up st. peters school aims to boost he enrollment, one of the many papers we'll show you today on "the washington journal" with stories.chool your thoughts and stories as well. lawrence in frostburg, maryland

as a parent. good morning. caller: thank you for c-span and thank you for the excellent, you have guests that that's timely and relevant. and a uick questions point if i can bring them in. and in the state of maryland, we a state board of education as oh pointed by the governor. about your guests talking a great disconnect that's happening in terms of their policy. is a e have in maryland clear disconnect in my view etween a state board of education that and many cases seemed to be with lack of a word, dicta to reca-- dictatorial in providing a bylaw that's as much obliging as state statute where they can literally -- they're not elected, they can sit down together and make law that local boards of education are obliged to follow. i think that that is something in terms of not just maryland, ut other states around the

union that also have a similar process in place that clearly needs to be addressed because great disconnect between local boards of education and state board of ducation and parents and students who get lost in that mix who are isolated. >> loip all right. guest: i can't speak directly about maryland, but education is function. every state constitution has provisions for a public system of education. is vested in ally state government. and so it's the states and local school districts that have that authority. many states have state boards of education, some are elected, are appointed. they all play some role in developing state policy around education. but, again, i go back, john, to what i was saying before. this really is about the players in the system, the leaders at the local, state, and federal level, having to get and talk about what is good education policy.

too often, these become battles, they become turf battles. kids lose their public education loses in that process. and so i mean we certainly see to engage and empower local school board members who re public officials at the local level. they have constituencies that they have to respond to to be in position to have the conversations with the state board of education, state governors, and federal officials. that's the work we're about right now. been so much talk about national politics creeping in to the education debate. local concerned about politics creeps in to debates policy e best education in local school boards and systems among the board members? i guess in know, some sense, education has always been sort of immersed in politics. in some way because we vote n federal, state, and local officials who are responsible for education. they run in campaigns. they have to respond to public

demands of different kinds. i think what's important, though, is to keep our eye on the ball. we about this? we're about educating children, aking america competitive nation. all of those things are what's most important. and i think what is concerning me is sometimes these debates -- off on tan jepts that tangents related nothing to educating kids. we're trying to keep the focus on kids. host: how long have you been in issues? guest: in my 35th year of working with local school boards. minute of it. i do want to say this. one oh it was reasons i like it board is because local members represent a cross section of america. i've met people from every walk imagine, hat i can farmers and college professors, astronauts, former professional baseball players, the ame it, who run for school board because they have an interest in education. ou know, they're democrats and

rep pubs from every religious faith. in that sense, it's one of the reat strengths of our country that we have the institution of local school board. >> meghan is a parent. meghan.ning, caller: yes, good morning. thanks for being on the show. my is a very relative to life because i have a -year-old, a 9-year-old, and a 13-year-old. i walked our public education slowly deteriorate from the 13-year-old's experience to 5-year-old's experience. a loft it has to do with the race to the top money that the up for.n sign and, again, like the gentleman from maryland is commenting about our department of mandates and the rolled out and our school board is trying to follow those, the tennessee is the funding is so low. in lieve they're like 44th the nation. nd we can't afford the data collection. it's very just rolled out a lot of the evaluation systems type

teachers. and we were barely funding our schools to begin with. o, it's really starting to tie the teachers' hands even more. when i see the classesrooms 13-year-old's experiences in kindergarten before no child left behind and 5-year-old this year, it's ridiculous how much these what's have deformed going on. we'd really like our school against this out things that aren't good teaching practices. take with the federal government, good teaching practices, and then be able to power to say no to some of the data collections and evaluation systems. well, meghan, you make several important points here. one is, of course, funding. the gallup poll which just came ut showed that the public's number one concern about education is funding and lack of resources that many districts have. it's fair to say that the result cutbacks inssion and

state funding, federal funding, boards arees, school really struggling in a lot of cases. making ispoint you're about what school districts are focused on. while i can't speak to your i will say istrict, that the larger experience we've een seeing is one of really a fixation on testing. and i think we have to -- we have to move away from that. tests are important for accountability reasons. but the primary reason that we tests in school is as feedback to the teachers to make sure that the students are learning. and we've -- we've kind of lost that a little bit. this notion that we can grade and we can tell how well teachers are doing and we can kind of hold the system resultsble based on the of single tests, frankly, makes no sense at all. nd we've gone far too far with that. so i think many ways, testing is overtaken teaching. a focus. it's not snag school boards are

comfortable with either. the conversation that we're having here at the federal level and simply at the the country.round host: chicago, illinois is next. james a teacher, james, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, james. to ask the , i want director of the -- of the national school board regarding school boards having law firms. i'm sure that most school boards firms. law that represent the school boards regarding legal issues because there's a lot of statutes, federal statutes, statutes that are mentioned. so, if the school board terminates or replaces the law firm that represents the school board, do they have the keep that same law behalf of y work on the administration superintendent.

here the school board has a separate law firm that only represents them. that's at be something ethical? or is it unethical? i want to get an opinion on that. host: is there a situation with has local school board that you concerned about this? board yes, the school never met with the law firm that they fired in regards to my employment status. a parent and s a -- and an actual deposition in actual hearing that was just done last week. this information out from back from three or four ears ago that my school board never met the law firm that expired to actually -- we've had settlement agreement over some coaching issues. we also had a termination case. but that local school board never met with the law firm that had were -- that they

already fired. host: we got it. from chicago. want to get a response. guest: i can't rep respond to the case. don't know exactly what happened. i will say every school district n the country has an attorney and a school attorney who advises them. the laws that because are constantly changing at the federal and state level and chool boards adopt local policies to implement the laws and they have to be in full compliance. unfortunately, we've become a ilily litigious society. in t of these end up lawsuits that school districts have to defend. that's a concern. but on the other hand, to make make the right decisions, boards need school attorneys. happened in what this situation. i won't comment on that. districts off -- this will be a subject for different state laws, but

have a way of handling discipline matters that may involve more than one law firm. host: speaking of chicago. a story by the associated press in chicago with more safety guards as the headline. this press story appeared in a count papers. students will pass more guards when they prompted the city to ine the streets with 1200 adults every day. i want to talk about some of the safety issues that have come up in he past year and get the assal school board association's thoughts on that, including this other story from philadelphia, in schools -- the push to arm teachers is it the headline there, talking about the 28 states where the adults are allowed to own fire arms will be able to carry them in school this year. some of your thoughts on the safety issues. guest: school is generally the safest place that most students will spend their time.

are obviously some awful examples of violence in schools which we're very about, i think the -- your viewers need to be reminded that schools are generally very places. and school districts are very focused on ensuring the safety employees. and their that's critical. we are not, however, in favor of arming teachers. makes a lot k that of sense. and frankly, it raises -- going ack to the previous caller, it raises a lot of liability questions. if a firearm is accidentally the hands or gets in of the wrong person, that's not a good situation at all. of districts are doing is hiring school resource officers. these are trained law enforcement professionals who can provide and help with the providing security in the school setting. that makes a lot of sense. that's also an expense. that's an added expense that takes dollars away from the classroom. tough decisions that school boards have to make dollars available.

mississippi next. calling in on the line for parents. leon.morning, >> most thank you for c-span. is why don't you school boards consider people es or retired ith experience in the fields versus just only college -- graduates with a achelor's degree, where it's clear that someone with 30, 40 ears' experience in these fields can be much more helpful han just a young 22-year-old, 23-year-old coming out of college. talking about the hiring practices of teachers, correct? the various ly, by

school boards. i've had this experience in here in a and now mississippi because i was a banks out lyst for there, so, you know, i feel i'm teach an qualified to things like basic math or know, social ou security even, you know, history and geometry. guest: there are a number of programs that states have to encourage folks to come back folks to cond career come back to the classroom to go through some alternative certification process. number of school districts around the country actually utilize those folks. it would be ink fair to say that the districts aren't doing that. the subject of state legislation. there are other issues, of of se, too, in terms training for classroom management and all the other things that teachers have to do day.he course of the but a lot of districts are looking to folks like that, particularly in some of the

harder to fill with teachers who maybe come through the traditional process. host: grand rapids, michigan is next. is a parent and a teacher. good morning, mary. the department of public instruction. do most states have the public nt of instruction? because today the subject is on indication and the role of the -- in the role of the school board. i'm thinking like the time i said -- they don't want to do thing for the whole state. and each state should have a that filters down through the board to the teachers to the schools. don't hear anything on c-span talking about the department of public instruction. also, like 26 or 27 after that. about a lot of things the safety -- talk about safety about chicago. are you going to do if you don't have food or you get

at.t those are issues that we have to deal with before we can talk about teaching students. and also, the parents don't have a job. if your apartment don't have a about school? and therefore the student that go to college, you get them to and still school working in mcdonald's, who wants to go to school? guest: to clarify. everyone has a department of public instruction. ducation is a state responsibility. it's in most state constitution constitutions. so they would have state agencies like the state board of education that are involved in regulating ri ining -- and setting the requirements. the other point i want to is i think schools are doing a terrific job with the resources they have.

let the opportunity pass without saying that public schools today are doing a better ob of educating more students at a higher level than ever before. so one of the things we're doing a national organization is campaign, stand up to public schools, to call attention to that. have celebrity spokespersons like montell williams and magic johnson and others who are that.ng with us on at the same time, we know that a lot of schools are struggling. trying to focus on what we're doing to help those schools. often the struggles are related your caller that was talking about. there are issues outside of the schools, there are community issues. are issues of employment and so forth. so this has to be a whole community conversation about how help make sure that the kids are getting the education deserve. host: the executive director of the national school boards association. a special line for school board members if they have questions or comments. ob is calling in on that line

from pennsylvania. bob, good morning. caller: good morning, good morning, mr. getzel. there's a saying, from there's stupid. not the school board member, been one for 15 years. educate obligation to all kids no matter where they come from as other callers have aid, you know, where their parents, what their education level is. and i wonder what we can do with convincing members legislators that we need a fair unding formula so we don't leave these children behind. guest: this is a great question. for yourall, thank you school board service. this is one of the fundamental equalize funding in schools. we rely primarily on local resources, property taxes, for example, typically, the wealthier communities tend to have more resources than the

communities. so for a state government to be able to equalize and the federal government to support that effort, is critically important. i would never say that poverty for students not learning. because every child can learn. and we need to make sure that at a child is educated high level. hill is ow that the needer and those districts more support in order to be able to do that. that's a critical role for state government. and as he suggests, funding ormulas funding very widely state-by-state held a money to school districts and so forth. conversation that has to be ongoing because times change. nd we saw, for example, been a number of places through the recession, even some school istricts that maybe were historically seen as fairly well off or at least able to support lost ity education significant tax base and are now really struggling. something thatbe

we talk about constantly. fundamental role for legislators. all ry on the line for others, hello, mary. aller: i teach children in el mea -- elementary schools. county, ontgomery maryland, supposed to be one of schools.ent i've seen incredible deterioration in the level of education in the elementary school. no books, homework can last up to five to seven minutes. tutored kids in catholic schools, private schools two years ago, they had least one hour a day. that made an incredible difference in the level of

education. and, two, the children in public s but what e no book to many isturbing parents is when the schools less than 20 years old are being torn completely and being built with new schools. where do they get all of that schools when new they don't have enough money for and even tion textbooks? ost: sorry, i didn't mean to cut you off. but did you have more to say, mary? caller: no. upset about the amount of money that is being spent on down schools and not on actual education. gentzel.ll right, tom guest: again, i can't speak to the situation in your school district. can tell you most schools in this country are fairly old. they're in need of repair. in need of replacement. so i can't speak to a specific

a newer school torn down.been a good reason for it. i can't tell you what that is. the larger question is the how they're allocated. this is a critical question and a tough one for school boards to there's a fair allocation for resources, not only among school districts in level but within school districts and how that's done. that's part of the budgeting that the district goes through. i encourage you as a parent and the community to go to school board meetings and share your concern as they have the back making the tough decisions. host: one other issue that boards are dealing with is this story brought up by "usa today." to 50,000 ce for up migrant kids coming to school. federal alk about the boardsnes for how school

deal with the might children they find in their systems this year? guest: this is a big story this summer. seeing tens of thousands, many central arriving from america. many of them unaccompanied. the law is pretty clear. arrive, e students they're entitled to a public education, regardless of immigration status. to have a le want conversation about immigration reform, they can certainly do that. we're concerned, we have a responsibility to children.hese when they ge is that arrive, we don't know what education they had. don't have english language abilities but we don't know the grade level experiences they've had. a big challenge for school districts. we've been engaged in some i think helpful conversations with the department of education and other agencies and other education groups to try to and assist local school districts in dealing with that

issue. one issue is health issues in schools. whether a kid is coming across he border are properly vaccinated. what are the school boards kids sibilities when the are coming in to the schools on a health front? well, the responsibility is they have with other students who arrive in schools. think part of the challenge is figuring out, of course, it's in terms te-by-state of their health requirements. so i can't speak to that on b a basis.ic i will say, though, that this kind of puts a bright light on challenges that school districts face because often we'll see an influx of or we'll see a new development coming into the community and districts have to respond on short notice to that. districts to do effective long range planning, of course, is severely like nged with situations that. host: a few minutes left with om gentzell, the executive

director of the national school boards association. school about the role of boards in our country today. john is in fairview, north carolina. john's a parent. good morning. caller: good morning, i have to in listening to your gue uest, there are so many different areas i disagree on. one of the things is when we funding.t local school boards oftentimes think, the primary -- how do i put this -- the primary kids getting a good education for one simple for -- - host: are you with us? your one simple reason. the one simple reason i see is we have charter schools in my own district. we have three of them. they have produced dramatic results. interesting to me that

they had to take the local court to get o proper funding for things like transportation and buying the books. these are publicly funded institutions but because they accountable to the local school board, the school board has gone out of its make darn sure that those schools don't have the proper funding. and i think that is totally wrong. that's all i have to say. just well, let me respond. first of all, we're not opposed to charter school if the local s are branded by school boards. that's important. there needs to be accountability tax he use of these dollars. look, there have been a number of studies done on charter out of stanford university which have found in hat particular case, only 17%, 17% of all of the charter schools outperformed traditional public schools. performed no better.

we're talking about funding in some cases almost a second not showing cation any demonstrable improvement in place that might be a particular interest in that. so what we're talking about is having accountability for public school he system. and, look, this goes beyond charter schools. are efforts to enact vouchers to give tax dollars to schools.blic there should be equal transparency for any organization that receives nip tax dollars to. clear, we're opposed to vouchers, parents, the public, to ayers, should be able review the performance of any school that get any kind of public funding, sort of a labeling argument that they can compare. and what we're seeing in a number of these cases, privatization, they are not required to report their results in the same way. and we think that's wrong. from a taxpayer perspective.

next from can p on the, georgia. he's a parent. good morning, earl. caller: good morning. good morning. you know, i'm a retired union electrician. calling about this here in cherokee county, georgia, the school board, whoever the tax taxpay money spending remodelled a high school right beside a waste treatment plant. can imagine the kids smelling that. then they build a big office a lding that looks like resort out of colorado. who do they think -- they should into that old building and built a new school for kids over there. has been the biggest damn mess i've seen. it's all right here locally too. it's all over, it's everywhere. they're doing it too much. hey're hiding the money with the construction companies, i think, putting it in their pockets. i don't know what they're doing.

you can't speak to the specific situation in cherokee, but on accountability, taxpayer rds spending money? guest: look, we're talking enterprise.e school districts are collectively the largest employer in america. their budgets are large. they spend a lot of money to educate kids. expensive erently proposition in many ways. but boards are accountable, right? elected. they stand for election. they have to answer questions just like that gentleman's, why they make that decision. so, again, i certainly don't now what happened in cherokee county. not going to even try to guess. but i will say that the board a long went through process to make that decision. they had options. they had to choose among them. think they would be happy to explain that decision. ultimately holds trump card here. if they disagree with the

remove them from office. in this way, public school boards are the most accountable of government. not only do they have to stand for election, they see their the ituents every day in grocery store, on the street, constantly asking questions. known rd members i've over the years talk about the phone calls they get at home and the number of people who stop and talk to them. think far more than the officials at other levels of government. accountable and the board members i've known are often willing to stop and explain the decisions that they've made. host: the executive director of boards onal school association, nsba.org. we appreciate you coming be i this morning. guest: thank you. host: up next, on the topic of education, specifically the common core with our roundtable of experts from the institute and thomas b. fordham institute and later open up the phones to talk campaign as we preview upcoming one high-profile

senate debate from north carolina. but first, a news update. a.m. eastern time. an update on the u.s. strike in somalia against the group, al shebab. sources tell richard angle of the leader was killed along with an aid in yesterday's strike. this group is reportedly responsible for the attack on year ll in nairobi last that killed 67 people. and more on the group isis. fighters from a militant islamic group in afghanistan ally to the bbc that they the are considering joining forces with the islam instate. heir commander also said that they would still fight the afghan government even after nato forces leave in 2014. commander mir was said if isis a true islamic califait link up with it. among a role in

the poll. to return ates plan next week, eric cantor begins a new job as vice chairman and director of a global independent investment bank. banks announced the appointment today in the news release. cost the re-election bid in congress y and left after serving seven terms. he tweets that eric cantor will $3.b 4 million at his new job. those are some of the latest jobs on c-span radio.

host: we'll spend our next hour this morning focusing on the over common core. thomas b. the fordham institute and neil m

mccluskey. invective to lace discuss the best educational methods. gentlemen on opposite sides of the common core debate. debate on rting the the facts, what are the facts we need to lay out on the table to get the conversation going. guest: i think the main disputed facts are where did common core come from and what it? and i think the stories kind of gotten on the side of this, but the facts.n right to common ity is that the core of these standards came from the national governing ssociation, the council of g state school officers that are two private organizations but epresent membership organizations from state level officials. they're not exactly state. the federal ot government. that's been a big dispute. he federal government was heavily involved in pushing the common core and probably for ace to the top and through

waivers out of no child left behind was able to pressure a lot of states to join the common core. it's also true that the common state nt selected two create tests and they have control of what's in the tests. that's reality. the federal government, but it's involved. how much of it is just standards, in other words, what do and how much is he curriculum saying how it will be done. begins to box in your curriculum and asks you to do certain things to get to common core. common porter of the core. any of the facts in dispute? guest: no, neil said i well. of whatying to be clear the facts are. mention, for example, the federal rule. this is something that's on the right has many conservatives upset. understandably.

we don't want e the federal government involved in writing standards or prescribing curriculum. started are that this out as a state-led initiative was even ack obama presiden president. momentum in the states. it's playing a role with the with race to the top. doesn't mean it's a federal mandate or that the government but iving the train, there's a federal role. so we're trying to put the basic have a real us to discussion about whether it's going to be good for kids. this is going to help many more young people in this country get ready for a good paying career and that will affect the challenges in this country. i agree about a lot of the problems that we have an education system that's not be.forming where it needs to my view is common core will help to fix it. won't do it all by itself. it will be important. i know neil disagrees.

i want to show some folks who may be new to the common core debate. year or raging for a so. common core polls. howing up here for our radio listeners, education standards for k through 12 in english math, ge, arts, and designed to ensure high school graduates are prepared to enter college or workforce by the council of chief state school officers. adoption by tary states of common core. mccluskey, why do you oppose? uest: we need to approach the voluntary vote. states were not required, but if hey want a realistic way of getting race to the top category, there was no choice. and no child left behind set expectations. 2014, every child would be proficient in math and reading.

the common could use core which they essentially had to adopt if they wanted to win top money. host: for folks who may not know, how much money are we talking about there that was on table? guest: it was $4 billion. and remember time the important too. so this was at the low point of recession. and so the federal government is saying to most states, look, if money, t part of this there are lots of things you have to do. one is adopting college and career-ready standards that are common to a majority of state ifs you want to maximize your chance of winning. it's not voluntary. if you are a state representative or you're a overnor or you're a state school chief, from most states to say, i'm just not going to ry to get that money, because most people say, why did you just give up on getting the millions of dollars that we desperately need. and then the waivers, everybody a wall ng sort of like in 2014, everybody was supposed proficient. it was understood long ago that wasn't going to happen.

two choices. they generallych agreed to, or they have their college tem and universities say their standards ready.llege and career not voluntary in the sense that ramifications for not doing it. there are serious ramifications. taxpayers live in states and to send that money to the federal government. and so i want to mention -- disagreeing to start on what we wrote here. ike just said there was real mow money tum on the state level before the federal government was involved. there wasn't, what i can see. pushed every state to adopt these things were the race to the top. dates, it was the almost exactly at the deadline the race to the top called for. out on this set debate in the next hour or so in the washington journal, we want viewers to call in. questions and comments on common core.

202-585-3880. teachers, 202-585-3881. others 202-585-3883. those are all open. we want to get you respond. >> sure, let's talk about why we core.omething like common we have an education system that we've been working on trying to reform for decades now. we've made progress recess. if you look at how the lowest performing kids in this country doing, minority students, low-income students, huge gains reading, math, el meant bry school, middle in the most assuredly, 1990s and in the 2000s, we embraced testing standards, accountability for a all of the of that. there are many. the evidence seems to indicate we saw significant gains in student achievements for those kids. the problem was the standards the tests were so easy, all of the pressure was getting the lowest performing over a low bar. it wasn't doing anything for the rest of the kids.

system he kids in the were going to be proficient no matter what. now we have the problem, kids education hrough the system. every year, they're passing their courses, getting good rades, they're passing these state tests easily with flying colors. and the education system is their parents d and educators and the taxpayers, everybody is going great, fine.thing is then millions of the kids get to age 18. they show up on a college campus i'm sorry, you're not ready to take a credit-bearing course or they employer and he the employer says i would love paying job,the good but you don't have the math, the reading, the critical thinking we set ou need, because the standards too low. the revolutionary part of common core is to say the standards of k-12 education system should comes ed up with what next for students. it doesn't sound so revolutionary. but for the education system, a dramatically higher standard than we've had before. that's what we're all about. issue of the e

federal role, again, this is something we can debate. e can both agree, it's not a federal mandate. but there was a federal role. for some conservatives, any role disqualifies it. i don't love there was a federal role. i'm concerned about accountability and better outcomes. so i'm willing to take -- look and say, s and cons look, on the whole, what this means is our schools are aiming higher standards than they have before in almost every state. and i'm hopeful that's going to learning more and many more kids ready for what's going to come next with college or career. a supporter of common core, how concerned are you about polling numbers on common gallup poll on this, do you favor or oppose having teachers in your have common core state standards to guide what they teach? 60% 33% say they favored, saying they opposed. and as you have noted in some of our writing on this, those numbers are down from the years

before. absolutely. it's concerning. not surprising there's been a to year negative campaign try to drive down the poll numbers of common core. it's political campaign, they attack ads, drive down the numbers. if you like the idea of higher idea rds, do you like the of making sure that the schools are held accountable for the ready level.r the there's still overwhelming support for the idea. the here's no doubt that brand -- the words common core turned been very much into a negative. right. the you can see them reacting negatively on those terms. guest: a negative campaign. way to putnteresting it. what we saw because of the heavy federal pressure, most states before common core anybody knew what it was. the thing was no one knew what

was.common core host: as you speak through this, the states that adopted common core appearing on this states have the not adopted common core, the yellow states on the map as follow along as we talk. guest: you start to see states hat adopted it started to drop it. especially moving out of tests, but some states are moving out common core, the entire thing. and the reality was, there was this negative campaign the last because a couple of years ago, districts and parents confronted with the new standards. they said what are these? where do they come from? hey didn't like them in many cases. they were confronted in math in ways that they didn't understand, that department make th -- didn't make sense to them. started to do research, look at common core or national standards. base thatt a research says national standards or state standards drive higher results. and you've got people across the board, experts who will agree with that. and them they found that the

itself department have much of a research base to say, we've tested this, we know it's going work. people found that this was really a hollow thing, but it's them.ing being imposed on and they started to say, stop, this is something that's being on our kids. there doesn't seem to be much basis for it. and, of course, we're going to resist it. and people who are going to it, to me, anyone, people say, hey, we got what we ago, they're surprised that when the public became more aware, there was a big growth in negative response to it. host: the associate director or the center for education freedom at the kato institute. michael petrilli is the thomas b. f the fordham institute here as we talk about common core. and the debate over common core. are open.lines umbers for parents, teachers, all others. jamie is calling for clarkston,

michigan. good morning. caller: good morning, thanks for having me on. for common core. i have grandchildren, they're graduating from high school. and i always believed that reading was fundamental. they don't want to read a book. all they want to do was do their it.work and that was i never saw them pick up a newspaper. i never saw them pick up a book. now some of them want to go to college. prepared.'re not kids have to be prepared to go to college. they need math, they need reading. and i'm from the old school. writing, and arithmetic. that's what i was taught. in the hat we need back schools today. that's all important. we need math, even though we say we don't. we need reading, we need all of

those. and -- host: the kids are not prepared today? good i think that's a question, jamie. the problem is for a long time, think in michigan, most other states, of course there was math orents that you do reading. common core isn't adding a whole new idea of math and reading. and this gets to an important point that i think public olicy, we have to be very humble in what we think public policy, common core, any other do.orms can a lot of what we get in or outcomes i think are cultural that we don't focus the way many other countries do. we do have to address that. going to fix n't that. by saying let's set high change s, we don't people's minds. interestingly if you look at testing data, what we find is there are many periods

test core before no child major testingfore than ever. is testing proving this or is it read,likely that americans look, we need to do better in science, math, we need to read more. nd over time, the culture changes and we focus more on the things that are important. to ink that's what has happen. and common core can't drive that. that has to happen organically. in : jotting down notes that call? guest: sure, i appreciate jamie's call. we have told kids and their that they are doing fine. that they're on track, they're on grade level only for them to later that that's not true. it's too late when you're in now 18 and r you're going to the community college to be told that you don't have the preparation that you need. so, you know, the hope here is that if we can give that information to people much look, if you're going to go to college -- most young people today say they

want to go to college. for a lot of reasons they're go to ging people to college. you need to be able to do some things, you need to be able to and an academic article make sense of it. you need to write an essay hat's not just about your own feelings or opinions but draws evidence from a text that you read. ou have to read great literature, you have to do math at an algebra ii level. of those ways in most states, the standards have been much lower than that. focus has been to get kids basic literacy and num are a si. good job of do a telling apartments, hey, don't think when your kid passes this means they're on grade level and doing great. lit rail or ot ill enumerate. right? that. trying to physician we have testing for a reason. we have a public education ystem that spends $600 billion a year. we want to hold it accountable for results. the results are student

learning. i don't believe the testing is going away. are we going to have the ow-level mickey mouse tests or much higher that gives good information to parents, kids, are yers about how kids really doing and whether they're really prepared. frank, efore we get to the thomas b. fordham institute is -- guest: we're a think tank based here in washington, d.c. do on the ground work in the great state of ohio. so we have an office in columbus and do support things like charter schools and private school choice and higher standards. host: mr. mccluskey? tow? >> education is one of the things we do. oriented.rtarian like fordham, we do a lot of work on school choice, charters, programs. but we're also obviously the federal hat government is doing. that means common core. we study standards and testing and accountability, things like that. host: to frank in new castle, pennsylvania. frank, good morning.

who r: there's not anybody wouldn't want to see the educational system improved, or er through common core something else. what you have to expect out of the educational institution to begin with. for example, when i went to school, we knew what children would be going to college when we were in high school. knew that. they're the ones that took the academic scientific program. everyone else took vocational or general program. if you set up standards for adhere to, ry to what are you going to do with who are not n college material, for example, s that n with average iq will never learn physic s trigonometry or calculus in high

school. those children have to go on in life as well. we can't all be computer scientists. be physicians. nd with the emphasis on this testing, which is a good thing for the average student that may college, but for those ho are just marginal students through no fault of their own whether it's iq levels or with er, what do we do those people? guest: this is one of the tough issues in education. tracking thate of people made it clear, okay, we think these kids are college not.rial, these kids are there was a rebellion to that. especially because if it was the system deciding. it didn't feel american to pick wirns and losers in this system. we've gone to the other extreme where there are some people who say we should send everybody to college. with that.ee i think that what frank is getting at is important is that

pathways to tiple opportunity, to the middle class, to a good life, and of them.s just one so in my view, common core is everybody etting going to a four-year college. it's about getting many more a point where they could succeed in a four-year college and succeed in a rigorous educational program. but we can't be utopian. of e not going to get 100% kids to that high standard and we have to make sure to have provide other pathways to the middle class for kids who don't want to go that way. host: do you want to jump in? guest: frank gets to a central here, or a central point. people learn different things at rates, different abilities, talents. what common core does is moves us all in the wrong direction human reality.c it says everybody should be ollowinge sen lshlly the same

model of educational trajectory. his point is that, look, some ids are going to want to do vocational things. some people want to go to college for a liberal arts degree. become doctors. so we need a system that rather really ing centralized top-down one-size-fits-all model, we need to go in the direction, towards really school choice where i you have gree where -- educators with the autonomy to start different schools to move them to where the kids want to go, where they're best suited and inclined to go. then you can have an efficient system where the unique individuals can get education needs.d to their common core is the exact opposite direction of that. do saying everybody should essentially the same thing. guest: can i get in on that. to disagree strongly with my friend, neil, that he's right

school choice. some say how do you support school choice and standards? the standard is about where do by the end ofo be the school year. it doesn't say how we have to get there, which curriculum going to use, which methods you're going to use. we're all parents, we have young kids. we take our kids in for a physical once a year. why do we do that? e love our kids, we want to make sure they're on track. there's no problems. there are these charts that the octors use to see whether they're on the right trajectory in terms of height and weight. we go in, we say everything right?ood, that's what we're talking about here. checking in once a year to see f kids are on the right trajectory. now the problem was the scale we were using before wasn't an accurate scale. we kept giving all of the false information to parents that things were oh can i when they weren't. that neil would agree if we're going to are standards and tests. ook, i think the libertarians aren't going to win this argument. i think they're going have standards and tests, they ought at a high level and they ought to be linked to what is going to come next for kids.

we?st: who is who is we who gets to decide what is right or wrong for every child. unique.now that's and this isn't whether or not we're finding out whether hey're dangerously underweight or something. this is saying here is your ultimate future when you get out of high school. idea of k whole through 12 standards. a lot of people have a lot of ideas about what they want to that are very different from the common core. so we -- when we decide, it's who we ortant to know is. a lot of people asking that question right now. host: we have a half hour for debate to play out. we want to get to as many calls can.e john in maryland on our line for all others, john, good morning. caller: good morning, frank stole my thunder. million ok at the 3.5 new students and overlay the -- intellectual

curve, 20% of the opportunity students will not wherewithal to get through high school. 0% will be termed average and struggle. but they'll probably make it. 5% have the wherewithal to continue on to college. and as the discussion just common core addresses in 25% at the topthe should know. it doesn't seem to address how implementation of those applied to documents middle and what we could do for the the 25% that we know. personority, we know the that will not be able to get core h even a basic program to graduate from high school. host: what do you make of the stats? guest: i disagree we know those

or these things are etched in stone, right? there's exciting research coming out. out a few weeks ago showing that fantastic schools can have a huge impact their ing kids maximize potential. there may be some things, happens in -- what the home or the upbringing or genetics or whatever you want to be limiting may factors, right? i'm never going to be a pro basketball player, right? to how much omes you learn, most kids today are ot anywhere near the full potential. grade schools can help move them much closer. into the nt to give idea that the system is it cally doing as well as could be or we have to write off as much of these kids. not going to be utopian. to get 100% of the level where they'll succeed in a four-year college. done that.has massachusetts, the leading state gets 50% of their kids there. 100%. not going to get to i don't want to go to the other extreme awhereined a25% or 50%

75% of the kids. i think our system could do ramatically better to help all kids get to their full potential. host: mike is the parent. good morning. yes, good morning, c-span. vehemently opposed to common core. essentially an extension of education model of ing good ou're breed ing workers but not creating free thinkers. one of the foundation of a free is free thought. we're getting away from that. the viewer if you are not familiar should familiarize by a ladyith the lady eiserby.otte thompson she has a book called "the deliberate dumbing down of america" where she documents the last 100 or so years that the educational standards have

we've allowed re federal government to supplant the role of the states. over the laste is 100 or so years is we have these big thinkers and the people who move our country forward are now away from those types of or thinkers or contributors to society. and what we're getting is we're get expert button pushers and we're going to get people who can solve the simplest of problems because the addressed, they -- i have an extremely iq. i'm looking at the common core math and it's literally ridiculous. host: the disagreement over common core. guest: i think mike is getting

at something that's important. we talk about soviet style of education, we have to be careful, because the soviet supposed course, was to be social control kind of mind control. i don't think common core is trying to do that. similarity, though, is that the common core is now the of seeing our curriculum, because standards do hether we think they're curriculum or standards do, have some impact. it has to on curriculum. this come from the federal government, from washington for the first time where they're starting to say the standards that you should use, as opposed to saying you need to have some standards. moving to centralization. i don't think we can say we're scary ways y of the towards a soviet style, other than the evidence on federal education n of doesn't work. grade. look at 12th assessment scores.

flat throughout the time the is involved.nment more and more money. more and more control from the ederal government hasn't fixed anything. that's a big problem. the more important problem and i think it's been a messaging for the common core is is the common core supposed to creative thinking, or is it supposed to be about producing better workers? lot of the rhetoric supporting it is to say if we want to be competitive, we have to create common core to get better workers. for a lot of people, that's not what education is about. host: the authors on the piece "the washington times" on restarting the common core debate. here for the next 25 minutes or to answer your questions about this debate, trying to lay out the facts of the debate, the agree and e they disagree. want to get your thoughts as well. line for, ohio on your parents. good morning caller: good morning, sirs, how you today? ahead.good, go

caller: my comment is my children when they bring home books from school, and we go through them, i don't see any don't see any ohio history. i don't see any u.s. history. my comment is how do they kind ditch their books that they bring home and bring out some and from the late '60s early '70s. their math book -- they're ones they have today. wouldt understand why you want to force somebody from the to try to ernment somebody in ohio when they don't have a clue about what's going on. host: john's experience? guest: i'm glad john called, especially from ohio.

we work on the ground in ohio. we have a team there. there's a big debate going on in whether to stay with the common core, there's hearings happening in the state house. there have been superintendents and school board members, local ohio people after the other about how much progress the common core has allowed them to ake in the last four years and putting in place stronger curriculum and putting in place materials that are better for their kids. to remember, before the common core started, not like everything was great with the system. we're all seeing some of the we've got.at our textbooks in this country have been terrible for decades. i'm not surprised. it's a great idea to go back to some of the textbooks that you might have used when you were a probably aree they much better than what we've seen s, the '80s, the '90 2000s, way off track. if anything, common core is rying to get us back to a more traditional approach. especially in math if you look at the early grades that says

ou have to know your math facts, times tables, no fourth or until the fifth grade. to the english standards, to mike's comments before, they say e need kids to read the founding documents. we have need kids to read a play of shakespeare. very traditional in many bays which is different from many including ohio and florida had done which many ways go way off the deep end in a of education yle and the common core in many respects is trying to be a corrective to that. that's why we support the common core. to the more back traditional foundation in the early grades. > the map we have shows the states that adopted in green and states that have not adopted in yellow. what states might be joining that yellow list sometime soon? guest: depends on how you look at it. i'm not sure from that math what all of them are. see oklahoma on there. you don't see south carolina,

hich is -- is put off for a year going to new standards because they couldn't make the transition fast enough. rumblings in places like north carolina to change. so i think you'll see, you know, four more r three or states that drop the standards out right maybe in the next year or so. of course, that's a guess. a lot more of is states not using the two test.lly selected the park, and the sbac test. out a leg of the tripod that fordham talked about. tests, and ndards, ramifications for performance on that test. ow, the states, this is all predicated to the notions that states will hold themselves accountable. this points to the federal having to be the one who directs accountability. that's a big problem because the federal government failed on repeatedly. it's micromanaged out of democracy, but it hasn't proven outcomes. this is important because we

beingbout standards maybe better. there's a lot of debate about the quality of the standards. is, and i ou've seen think mike will agree with this, lots of questionable tests, bad lots of things saying they're common core aligned. that's because you can set and it's hard to enforce them. hard to implement them. and it's why most people looked this and said standardizations alone can't do things that common core is promising to do. guest: i agree in the federal role. that we do not want the feds involved in it. i don't agree that standards equal standardization. that the charter school movement, all of the great schools of choice, overwhelmingly support this movement? know they can get to the standards lots of different ways. they can still have a lot of creativity, they want to be held accountable for igh standards, meaningful standards to show the stuff against it rather than the low standards they have. ook, neil, let's be honest, there's no debate that these standards are higher standards than what we had before.

like the other figures that you hear of will acknowledge that the common core than what say three-quarters of the states had before. the debate is around a couple of that had very good standards before. how did the common core compare there. the debates in the studio, it's happening on our twitter page. along at c-span wj if you want to follow that conversation. a er writes, common core is race to the bottom. it will bring down those bright, inspiring districts to the least denominator. and peg writes in that all of the leading countries in and tion have standards much tougher standards. you can follow along there or call like lisa did. lisa is from aston, pennsylvania. good morning, lisa. are you? host: good. caller: i'm a school board director. the departmentce of education was created in the 1979, was the late the downing of our education the top.rough race to

and no child left behind. race -- common core is untested. wanted to do higher standards, why wouldn't laboratories of innovation and use those for best practices instead of the math that we're seeing there that parents can't with.their children i'm not sure why that has happened. ut the -- bill gates said that when the testing is implemented, he level will follow, which says that the curriculum is the ultimate goal. nd that is very concerning to me. and i think parents kneeled -- up right now. they need slow have a voice. they feel they're alone. voices heard.r we've had new math, sight reading, other things that have come and gone. i had a good education. i graduated in 1980. its's been downhill. government has not done much right and

something they need to stay out of. because it affects every child. that's left to the states. teachers are boxed in. their autonomy and creativity is being denied. and they pretty much pull -- they push the students along. before they used to pull the students. now they have to push that last student to get to where the rest of the students are. host: there's a lot there to tackle. sympathize with lisa on many of the points. she was in the end focusing on kids.owest performing that's what happened under no child left behind. we had the low standards, pennsylvania, very easy tests. all of the incentives were for eachers to just get the lowest performing kids over the low bar. now we have a very different ystem coming, much higher bar, toucher standards, and the --eptembin incentiv incentives. why don't we look for the aboratories of innovation, the states, we did. the common core, the state that

those most influence on standards no doubt was massachusetts. they had a great set of standards. massachusetts were heavily involved in crafting the common core. verbatim was taken from the massachusetts standards. it is in there. these standards -- you say research-based. you look at the different aspects of the standards, strong early n phonics in the grades. big research base. on the math, big focus on math facts. getting the arit many tick down to fluency. research based. means to be college and career ready. what is the evidence about what need now be able to do at the end of high school if they're going to succeed in klemming? evidence based. these standards more than any other before we've done took the idea of evidence based seriously. doesn't mean they're perfect. down from t handed mt. sinai. they need to be improved. ego.l learn as with i see big problems with math, a lot of confusion where i don't

think there needs to be. to try to on was not force new math on the country. if schools are thinking that's hat they're being asked to do, that's a serious problem. but by in large, these are good solid standards. think lisa had a great point about laboratories of innovation. was nk what the problem that this was, again, heavily pressured by the federal government. nd i think a lot of people who supported the common core did want it to be something that voluntarily adopted. the problem was, there are also people who are supporting the core, including the national government association and of chief state schools and officers that were in charge of it that said, no, right off f the bat, the federal government's job is to incentivize adoption of these things. get ates really didn't truly voluntary ability to adopt these things and you didn't get five or six four or states that were really committed, use them, see what the outcomes were after three or four years, know everybody was told that -- the technician had

been given any sort of trial run. the research that i'm talking about for the most part is we research to show that having national standards leads to better outcomes. ut we never got to have the debate about the policy because comes the top suddenly around in 2009, 2010. and everybody stopped in to get it seems in cause many cases, states thought that the common core was the best way to go. guest: we don't know that, neil. we don't know how many states have adopted without race to the top. we do know it's been a long time since race to the top. 2010, 2011. we still have 40 plus states onboard. despite all of the controversy, 40 states saying we invested in higher standards. e decided there would be much bigger tests coming. we will have much better assessments coming. all of the political heat, we're going to stick with this. this sh good for kids.

plus states and most of those states are free at any time to back out. they have no obligation to the government to stay with this. but they're sticking in there. to me, the leaders in those tates tell me it's good for kids. guest: an important point. if most states wanted a waiver that child left behind start in 2011 and they still want or still need had to say or would use common core would have the states and colleges and universities ertify their own college and career ready. most had promised to use common core to get race to the top money. to suddenly going say we were just recently doing it for the money. they're stuck with this. it doesn't mean they're happy. we don't have evidence that moat excited about common core. what we do have clear evidence of is that the federal applied pressure to adopt them and keep them. guest: give you a little hearings in ohio, going on right now, mostly out of state people coming in and

get rid of theld standards and people in ohio, educators, school board members, want to keep it. guest: it's not right. host: let's look at the teacher looked at the standards and thought about the standards. ichael is a teacher from deerfield beach, florida, lots of people to talk to. we want to get to as many as we can. morning, michael. hole l hello. i'm calling from broward county, the nation rgest in as far as number of students. the issue of testing is the center of a lot of this, i think. things that i find possibly disingenuous on both really that no one cares about tracking through performance. everyone is talking about example, the tests, for ere in broward, only 5 of 260 schools received passing grades on all six subjects.

only 5 of 260. the reports hear results of the test, this doesn't come out. it's we're doing wonderfully and everything is going great. we're ditching a new test, no one is talking about the fact hat we have statistical, mathematical capability. i would like both of you to address this. say 5% of the questions, the actual questions maintained when we transition from one test to another when we can go back and say, look, we know based on the tens of only ads of tests given, small percentage of these, the same math that we use to make presidentialor the candidates. we the can say, look, we changed the test entirely. we had a subset. we can go back and statistically pull out of the kids who did it, sometimes we'll have kids taking questions that may go back ten years. t will be a small number of

kids doing that. host: i want to give you each a minute or so to answer the questions. guest: some of this is happening. last spring, they did the tests ms.the new assess the state like massachusetts gave kids both tests so they could do the equating. ways to figure out what it means when we have a new test and trend line. no doubt in many states, the tests are going to be harder. you can see passage rates but there are ways to be able to equate this. this is something we've seen continued efforts to try to improve standards of testing. tests that at the it's supposed to be pretty years, ent, over 40 some which is the long term trend, progress.ssessment of but you see when you get to high school kids, it's totally flat. so far, standards in testing has

not led to meaningful improvements in outcomes. testing can tell us some things but always major disagreement on what's on the test, what's not the test. and how do you assess things that aren't easy to test. assess the critical thinking or the creativity and things like that. ests are only one barometer of what we want. but unfortunately policy is heavily focused on testing and test results. host: josie is calling in in pennsylvania, good morning. aller: i'm a retired schoolteacher. i retired five years ago. i had some in public and some in private. i want to say the standardization is absolutely else in. very mobile society. when students move from one state to the other, you find -- area, moving patch into our system, who didn't have

the same capabilities, i won't say capabilities, i would ave to say preparation for moving into our curriculum. found with at i that you haven is consistency. there was a lag time saying we were five to ten years behind the curve. true.nd that to be but we're in a rapidly moving society now. we have moved with all of our social media, etc. we have to be able to keep up. host: neil? guest: there's an important point. talk about people who move -- movement between states or among states. because remember for a long time, we've had state-level standardization. look at those numbers, there are not that many school-aged kids who move from

one state to the other. the common core would have no effect on them. as more important thing is much as we like and want kids to ideally be at the highest level we would like them all to be an equal highest level possible, the reality is, all kids are different. so we can set standards, but you can't make everybody learn the rate, hing at the same unless you want to have a very low rate, slow rate, where you the slowest t even learners, and that would go from subject to subject. necessarily the slowest learner in all subjects, but then you would have then tailored to them so that they don't fall behind. that's not what we need. that's the stem exact opposite where you can get he education that's best for your unique child who learns different rates and different things. to a system of school choice and away from this idea of set national

standardization. host: a few minutes left with ccluskey of the cay tow petrelli from r. the fordham institute. to write a gether piece in "the washington times," "restarting the common core debate." bob is a parent from virginia, good morning, bob. caller: hi, good morning. doctor, i'm a neurologist. stuff to address this about core curriculum. both of those guys presumed to degrees.ege you have xhcollege degrees. core curriculum or not? so what? electives for everybody. host: talk about his background

in education? yeah, it's an important point about core curriculum. t's interesting when you go to college where there is a lot of ontrol, there is not core curriculum. we can go to choose for the most go to school. i went to a school that focused on political science. areas of of their expertise which would be different from going to a school with an engineering area of expertise. so what i got was through school a place that had a program tailored to me. i can guarantee you that what where rn in many classes i went to college would be different from what you learn in political science and government elsewhere. there's been a big push to let people choose the schools -- the they want even in their major? host: your background? in political d science at the university of michigan. lot. core curriculum, not a a lot of colleges have moved away from that.

the importance of kids moving across states. you know who it happens a lot for? military families. family community is hugely supportive of the common core. they think it will help them as families are moved every couple of years around the country and the world. more likely now to have consistency in those standards. o that's something that again not a ton of kids, but certainly part of them. department of defense in many cases run schools. if it makesquestion more sense if that's a heavily mobile population, the have ment of defense schools but we have the ability to choose schools that are their children because they're not as mobile. host: a military family out experience, take a few minutes to take your calls. karen who's been waiting on the franklin, rents from tennessee. good morning. caller: hi, thank you for taking

my call. neil thinks, first of all. i have three concerns. okay? efinitely government needs to a standard.rom the federal government needs to be taken out of this. the eds to go back to states. and i think that is so important. what my background is is i'm man and his mother and father were in the education system. principal, one was a teacher. they both started as a teacher. his father went to be a principal. what i noticed is dating for used to s, his mother have in the beginning, she had an assistant, she had an aide. teacher.he first grade she had an aide that helped cut hings out, that helped the children. numerous ways.

away.ide was taken they're taking the money and putting it in technology. technology needs to be removed from the first six years of education. they should be all -- they of the et rid of all computers and put aides back in single room. kids need attention, assistance, that are guiding them and helping them. what our school system has done s put so much pressure on one teacher to take care of 30 some ids in a classroom by themselves. and then the terrible to all of hese standard tests and things like that where i also agree, kids learn individually. they -- karen likes it way that mr. mccluskey thinks. respond to you karen. guest: i like the way neil issues.a lot of these are good questions of technology versus people. two young , i've got boys. a constant struggle at home to keep them away from technology. 'm not sure we need to be

giving them a whole lot of screen time when they re actually in school. i think that's a place where mostly doing things like reading books and getting that attention from the teacher. sympathy for t of that. host: we go to washington, ennsylvania, charlotte calling on the line for all others this morning. charlotte, good morning. charlotte's not with us. we'll go to janice waiting in odenton, maryland, also a parent. janice. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you. i oppose common core for a totally different reason. don't hear anyone really talking about the advanced students. who worked with their children. y husband and i and the grandparents and others have worked with our children. child, before kindergarten, she knew how to

read, she was reading "charlotte's web." she knew how to do multiplication and addition. scored on the common core advanced.test you know, during the beginning, in the end of the school year, kinked kindergarten and the fit grade. and i asked the teacher, well, are you going to give her do?anced work to she said yes, but she never did. it seems to me they drop the score high.ds that they don't really care if a kid scores high. they only worry about the kids who didn't score as high. advanced y about the o ones. again, a very s, important question. common core has a bad effect in further rd in that it centralizes and further says there should be one standard for

everyone. naturally what the schools will teach to you. that you tant to note can have the common core, but the main driver of this sort of tandardization and focus, especially on low performers, comes from broader policy, comes child left behind in particular that said if you on't get all kids to a certain level, then you get punished. a that led to a sort of triage that you would focus on getting as many kids over the you could and not worry about the other kids. even broader than that, we have education, government is going, government is saying that everyone will get essentially the same school, the government will provide that school as opposed to the parents of the child. have the autonomy to start the schools and you go and find the school that focuses on the needs of your unique child. child ced child, or a that struggles in math getting help in math. and we have a system far beyond

the common core. host: in the last minute, matilda on the line for apartments. matilda, good morning. aller: good morning, thank you for c-span. the debate reminds me of health care law. certain groups ape tempt to crush it, lots of money, didn't in place to offer. our schools are not performing well. if you look at other developed nations. nd i really think that this is an effort by the koch brothers for the cato institute. it's to abolish the department of education. kids in their place because wealthier students can get education because their parents can get it to them. ost: give mr. mccluskey a

chance to respond. guest: i would hope when we have this debate, i would like on the evidence and the merits rather than whom is funding whom. with k there are people money on both sides. i don't think anybody disagrees with that. what's important is that when we the evidence about national standards, do they have discernible positive income -- no evidence comes, to suggest that. you look at reality, all kids are different. they have different rates, skills and ability, we need to treat them like individuals. these are the important things we need to talk about. guest: she raises a great question. which is what is plan b for want states to pull out of the common core. we can look tot oh k o.k. which has repealed the common core. now, it's total chaos. no one knows what the standards are. teachers don't know what they're supposed to be teaching to. in six months they're supposed to be giving some test, they the test will be. we're four years in to this. if we're going to do something

for, we need to have a plan that. and unfortunately, many opponents do not have that plan. do, you can go back to old standards, you can move to school choice. but the reality is common core that was pushed on many people. they don't know it's coming. they don't like it now. it's not sufficient to say, well, you bet verse a full plan in place to get rid of the thing you didn't want and you were blind sided by if you don't hink it's good for your kids host: if you want more opinion, ""thetheir joint column in washington times,"" restarting core.ebate on common thank you both. guest: thank you. guest: thank you. host: up next, the campaign the as we take a look at final four states with primaries this month. and also turn our attention to preview of this week's high profile debate in north carolina. first, a news update from c-span radio. time.'s 9:32 a.m. eastern in business news this hour, announced aymeth has

she plans to step down as publisher of "the washington post." has been chosen as her successor. housing, core logic says u.s. in july, but at a slower rate compared to earlier this year. 7.4% in july from july of 2013. year htly below june's over year increase of 7.5%. the smaller price gains should more affordable. turning to the situation in ukraine, the national security military id russian forces have been spotted in most rebel held cities in eastern ukraine. kraine's armed forces are expanding their strategy from just fighting separatists to army. the russian could cost in his words tips of thousands of lives. earlier arov speaking

in a news conference in moscow moves to join s nato were undermining an attempt o reach a peace deal with the rebels. ukraine rebels and russian en y agreement d without yesterday. all of it happened ahead of a meeting in wales later this week expected to p is endorse the creation of a new military force of some 4,000 of moving on only eight hours' notice. forident obama leaves today the meetings in europe. c-span the headlines on radio. > a look at some of the programming this week on the c-span networks. on c-span tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern --

6 from today will mark the final four primaries of season.4 primary those are in the states of rhode island, new hampshire, delaware.etts, and but attention already being turned to the general election, the november 2014 election is be talking oing to about in our last 30 minutes or so this morning on the

washington journal. we're asking what races you're watching. if you're watching primaries in those final four states. also want to hear your thoughts as well. open.hones are plenty of headlines out of the labor day weekend about the sprint b to november. lead editorial in the "usa today." five reasons the midterms matter. why you should care about the november elections even if you're fed up with politics is the eadline there from editorial board. then to "the washington post" -- midterms tions about is the headline there. one of the questions that they ask -- if i watch only a few races this cycle, which ones should they be? one of them is north carolina state where president obama won in 2008, lost in 2012, and where outside groups had spent heavily on a contest that many say could determine whether the senate democrats' hands. o talk more about that senate race, we turn to jim morrow, a political reporter with the

charlottes onner. night, the first debate between the state house speaker om tilllis, the republican, senator kay hagen, the democrat in north carolina. that's happening at 7:00 p.m. is each side need do in this debate? lose?s more to gain or >> a good question, john. both sides have a lot to gain this.o lose from this is really the first head-to-head matchup of tom pretty much on the sideline for the last three months, in fact, almost every nomination in e may because he had a legislative session, the house speaker in north carolina. a session to deal with weeks ust a couple of ago. e's falling behind in fundraising. he had to stay off of the trail in the last few days and raise money. really sort of the first chance for a lot of people to see him since the -- the primary. and for hagen, it's a chance to, you know, turn the agenda off of

president obama, which the republicans are trying to put it in on. the real clear average of polls, average of all of the polls that are out there on the a th carolina race showing very tight race between tom tillis and kay haggan. ahead to hagan according to the average on all polls. heading to the debate saturday night. watch it on c-span. it.ing what is the strategy? is it a matter of trying to avoid a major mistake? trying to do that. the broader strategy for him is to tie hagan to president obama to washington. bama's popularity is at 41% in north carolina. which is slightly below his average. her strategy is going to be to going tillis to what's

on in raleigh, which is also unpopular. think a poll has shown the north carolina legislature was controlled by the republicans to unpopular here too. host: asking viewers this morning what races they're 2014.ing for campaign love to hear from viewers in north carolina. the phones are open for viewers from around the country to talk about the races they're watching. president obama, mr. morrill. he visited north carolina last week, an appearance to make some announcements about veterans' sides frame both that trip by the president to north carolina? >> she was quick to disstance herself from the president about that. she's been very supportive of veterans generally. to speak to e down the american legion convention. and all of the trouble that the experienced over the last year has been particularly in the last few months, it was

speech for him. distanced herself after the appearance was announced if the minute aviation had done enough. tillis jumped on her for not oing more for veterans and letting the situation devolve to what it has. host: can you talk about the importance and the focus on both sides on women in north carolina nd how both sides are working to turn out the vote among women voters. >> sure. hagan, very important. women skewed democratic anyway. of about 18nder gap points in one poll recently. planned parenthood is planning to hold a little rally tonight, the row night, outside of debate. and then about $3 million in support of her. galvanize rying to women themselves. an anti-abortion demonstration

hagan's office last week by people who support mr. tillis. groups forre women's him too. good to realize how important it is. host: thank you for helping to preview that debate at 7:00 p.m. pleasure. host: viewers can watch the debate live on c-span. 7:00 p.m. is the start time. viewers to call in in the last segment today asking what races you're watching in campaign 2014. got a caller from north carolina. can on the, north carolina. terry is a republican. good morning. caller: good morning, good morning, how are you this morning? host: good, terry, how are you this morning? hagan has athink kay bit of an uphill battle. work in, ashville, one of the best cancer treatment the southeast. just found out the other day due aca, she's going

to lose up to 1100 jobs. right here in my hometown, hagan and the epa rules are trying to paper wn one of the last mills. here we're going have to lay a pipeline. a pipeline. so greenville, south carolina, here.he way up so hagan, good luck to you. we see who you're for. not for us, you're for the dreamers. have a good day. host: before you go, can i ask do you think the race is as close as the average polling is tillis upight now with 8%?ere caller: not here in western north carolina it isn't. county be in the one because it's a highly progressive county. that's the home place -- sorry,

money mondays. but, no, i don't think that i9's saying.t as they're host: that's terry in canton, north carolina. e're asking our viewers what races you're watching as we come to the end of primary season and he sprint to the general election in november. here's an article last month "the washington post" with the headline, unlike previous midterm election years, there's has minant theme that emerged for 2014. the story noting that this is an nothing and e.g., unlike in previous midterm election years, no dominant in emerged for the 2014 campaign according to some of the research that "the ashington post" did for this story that came out last month. even without a single salient heavy the story notes a cloud of economic anxiety and general unease is hanging over fiercely partisan debate. what races are you watching as withe head to november. let's head to kingsley, pennsylvania. independent.

good morning caller: good morning. host: what are you watching? i didn't see it here. 'm watching the 10th congressional district race which is nick terano, the running against the moreno t, tom host: who do you like for independents. te a : yes, i like nick terano. host: why is that? caller: at this point, i'm tired of more of the same. change. to see a and i'm going to try someone different and in this case, an independent. lot of he's getting a traction in this campaign and excited about it. >>. host: do you think most americans feel that way? trying something different? caller: yes, i do. host: ed from kingsley, pennsylvania. john's up next, lake placid, florida for the line of

republicans. good morning. caller: watching delaware, underwatched. koontz defeated christine o'donnell in 2010. only four years left in that term. wade, a rting kevin businessman who is running ran in chris koontz, he 2012. race because he was a year ago below 50%, it's been a bad year since then. do any of the polling. but he's below 50% a year ago. think that could happen live here in delaware. host: john mosley, is that it? caller: yeah. c-span in comments at wj. follow along on twitter or call in like john did or do both. lexington, kentucky on our democrats, philip, good morning. caller: good morning. watching the mitch mcconnell race and all i see

mcconnell doing is slandering. my brother conned me into voting for him last time saying being would have -- him the incumbent republican that he good for kentucky and a little grid lock. it was under his tutelage. grimes this for year. host: the real clear average of olls listed in today's "washington times" shows the minority leader mitch mcconnell lundergan alison 44.8%., the democrats we're asking our viewers to call in. what campaigns, what races are watching heading to november, the general elections. as you said, there are four happen elections set to

next week, next tuesday, one week from today. those are happening in rhode hampshire, massachusetts, and delaware. here to talk a bit about those caan, a politics reporter for roll call. good morning. caller: thanks for having me. host: what's the biggest races appening in the new england area states? >> well, the biggest primaries new oing to happen in hampshire and massachusetts. in new hampshire, there are three races going on. here's the senate race where senator -- former senator scott to thes trying to return senate. he was in massachusetts for 2010 he's trying to come backer in in the neighboring state. he faces it primary. through cted to come that one both of the house seats too.or grabs in the first district, carol shea porter. rematch ing to face a with frank guinta. he faces a primary from a number

most seriouss, the being dan ennis. he's a business school dean up here and actually a gay republican. he is made some news from that. expected to come through that primary. second district, congresswoman annie custer. he does not know who her republican primary opponent is. call, emily cahn of roll it's been a long summer of primaries. what were the biggest upsets that you'd say happened over the course of the primary season? > everyone is going to to talk about eric cantor. the only sitting house majority leader in history to lose a

primary. expected this to happen. he had the primary where everybody thought it would get close. it he fact that dave brat won was a huge surprise at roll call. that senator sed cochran survived the primary in runoff from a state senator chris mcdaniel. mcdaniel still kind of fighting the rules of a runoff back in june. so no one expects it to flip. nd the fact that a sitting senator was able to make it through a runoff and then win that runoff is actually very surprising. host: stories coming out today. ric cantor landing a job at a wall street investment bank. the story from "the wall street will be noting that he the vice chairman and a board member at the firm, moellis and company. the story noting that mr. cantor liaison been seen as a between the gop and wall street which has been a big campaign

ontributor of his during his time in congress. >> they didn't get any victories. any ea party didn't get sitting senators any of these primaries. senator thad cochran survived his. in tennessee, they didn't get alexander, he ended up winning by quite a large margin. roberts survived a primary challenge. so, you know, the tea party did not have a good track record. you know, when you look down at the competitive races all republicans got through of the candidates that they thought would have the best shot t facing democrats here in the fall. so republicans definitely bolstered up their money and

put their money where their mouths were and got the people through that they needed to get through for the -- for the november elections. host: and politics reporter so much call, thanks for the look back and preview as we talk about the end of primary season. >> thanks for having me. ost: we love to hear viewer thoughts as well on your reflections of the primary season this year, campaign 2014. we're asking,tion what races are you watching heading to november. louisiana on et, our line for republicans. jim, good morning. good morning, in louisiana we would love to get rid of mary landrieu. got a pretty 's significant lead over cassidy.

doing a late around cassidy. weeks, bringxt six the average back up and get him to be in the lead and try to remove mary landrieu from the senate. host: in sunset, louisiana. races are you watching. ed in fall river, massachusetts on the line for democrats. caller: hi, good morning. i want to say thanks for the call. i'm following steve grossman here in massachusetts. treasurer, he's got something to do with passing the minimum wage. guy employs a ton of people. he's way above living wage. the bill.d it's not passed, in the works. bill number four is on sick days. there's a million and a half people here in my state that don't get sick days. happened a long time ago. better late than never. steve grossman all the way.

i'm so glad that the word is getting out by mr. scott brown. subject ofoff of the the next governor. but scott brown in massachusetts. how can he make it in new he got kicked out of our state, by not liking omen, not wanting to pass a jobs bill, etc., etc. it's a shame. i hope new hampshire people brown is who scott and how he's being funded. it's obvious that when he was enator here that the brothers helped him then. and now they're helping him now. in new hampshire. but nothing's changed. what i mean? cott brown is skrot brown, wherever you go. host: edward perkins said i want senator minority leader washed connell to be away, out of congress. and governor of north carolina is one he's watching. bonnie in maryland on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes, i'm watching the

governor's race. of maryland, state brown,ernor o'malley and lieutenant governor, haven't met a tax they don't like. have flush tax, rain tax. they would tax our breath if they could. keeps saying that he'll change everything when he to the governor's. why doesn't he change something now. and the transportation fund? they raided it. so we need hogan, a republican, get rid of we can some of these taxes. bringing in illegals. there is jobs that our kids will governor brings in -- they have -- we have the amount of est illegals brought in here. methadone clinic n one corner, and a food bank on the other, and it's sad. our economy is bad in maryland.

he's the one campaigning and obama and brown is following in his footsteps. bonnie in maryland and mike is in richmond, virginia on our line for republicans, good morning. caller: yeah, it really is a shame to me that the tea party do as well as we thought they might. can tell, m what i it's basically -- they're the nly political candidates that are not for sale. they're the only ones that are -- like i said, we're not in bed with the big money. and our demonstrating the ones have been elected are stralti-- demonstrating it by their actions. democratic the callers bringing up the coke bed ers when they're in

with the money the likes that the republicans can only dream. i want to talk about what in mississippi. i don't know how well people understand how some of these the s are happening with democrats made a -- an unholy alliance with mitch mcconnell the rest of the republican calls shment to put robo and leaf lets out there in black the black to tell voters, who are all democrats, them to go andll come and vote on the republican primary because the republicans benefits,nd all of the want to take the blacks back to slavery or some different kind bondage, and scared the living hell out of black voters come out and vote against chris mcdaniel by voting cochran but they are not going to vote for thad cochran when it comes to november. host: can i get your take on the eric cantor race and the defeated by saw him

dave brat? caller: my take on it, basically, is that cantor took voters for granted in that district. bigger take on that. which is that the fact that he beaten by highly motivated came out people that to vote is what led to what happened in mississippi. republican establishment was not taking no more chances on that. people have to -- people have to at things a little bit more closely. especially my friends on the left. democrat callers, you really have to look at things a little we're in a because time where it is no longer politics as usual. host: mike in richmond, virginia. daniel from bellevue, florida on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, very the calls from what

race is this political hack is at -- not hack -- observer, let's say. is thet has intrigued me kentucky race with mcconnell and grimes. and particularly mcconnell's pertaining to the election of obama has always misconstrued. and it's always done a disservice to the man. what he was saying. he -- mcconnell then -- he didn't criticize. he wasn't adversarial to president obama on the basis of race, color, ethnicity, whatever. he criticized the man's politics. and as -- as it turns out, mcconnell was right. o'obama is totallier reprehensible. hope he wins. he has a fairly significant edge on grimes.

but i know that the race has been watched vastly. of the best, all even though he's a dyed in the politician, ional there is certainly one that the entire country is keeping a close eye on. we will see you right back here at 7:00 eastern. have a great tuesday. >> president obama heads for estonia today on the way to this week's nato summit in wales.