it also involves the same thing in syria that we need in iraq. just as we need in iraq a pluralistic government that can represent all the people of that country, so in syria we need a transition to a government that can represent all of the people in that country and stop brutalizing them. >> part of my argument is you need that mixture of intelligent politics, diplomatic pressure, long term engagement and a comprehensive plan, as well as the potential for military or other more aggressive action. you need all those things to solve this problem. that will be the case with syria as with iraq. let's have the gentlemen here. >> you have been asking other countries to pledge to go back to defense spending. the think tanks say britain's defense spending has dipped to something like [indiscernible] next year.

did you make any commitments? >> we are above 2%. we are one of only four countries. estonia, greece, and britain in the european union, and america, four out of 28. we have stayed above 2% even at a time when we have one of the biggest budget deficits anywhere in the world. i think that is important. i think it is worth looking at what the declaration says pretty what is remarkable is there has always been the 2% pledge in nato, but it has never been set out as clearly as this. it is very clear what has been signed up to. it makes a differentiation. it says those meeting 2% should aim to continue. some year after year have not been spending 2%. it says allies whose current proportion of gdp spent is below

on this level will default any aim toward [indiscernible] an aim to move toward the 2% within a decade. i would argue there's a lot that has been achieved. proper training missions that will go to countries like jordan and georgia and iraq. here an important breakthrough in terms of getting other countries to bear the burden britain and others have been bearing. we will set our budget at the time of the next election. i am proud of the fact that even in a difficult fiscal environment we have frozen the defense budget in cash terms, 35 billion pounds, a top five defense budget anywhere in the world. because we have made difficult choices, we have the aircraft

carrier, the destroyers, frigates, and all the other hardware i mentioned. we have talked about that a lot today. tom? >> prime minister, john kerry was forthright in his views on how to tackle isil and what was needed. i wonder if you agreed with him in three specific areas. one, that it could be a last to fight up to three years. two, that he would like to seek you an authorization as early as the end of the month at the general meeting. and third, it would take real military commitment from the air and coalition partners. >> i agree with the sorts of points he has been setting out. the issue about the time this will take, i would not put a specific time on a specific problem like so-called islamic state.

it arose very rapidly. i believe it can be squeezed effectively. i would not want to put a time on that. but i have said many times this is a generational struggle. we have been fighting against islamist extremism around the world. one thing i tred to get across at the conference is i think it is wrong to think the cause of the problem is the particular fracture in a country like syria or iraq. the cause of the problem is the poison of islamist extremism. wherever there are fractures, civil wars, conflicts, it bubbles to the surface. that is why you have seen it in somalia, nigeria, afghanistan when it was controlled by the taliban. and tragically in syria and iraq. the struggle we are involved in is a generational struggle. in terms of the u.n., i think the more the human can say to back and support hopefully a new iraqi government and condemn islamist extremism, i think the better.

in terms of military commitment, solving this problem has already taken military commitment. britain has been dropping aid out of military planes. we have been flying over iraq. we have been supplying the peshmerga with arms. clearly military commitment is required. anything we do must be part of a comprehensive plan. we must be working with allies. we must help those on the ground involved in the fight. i would put front and center the need for an iraqi government that can represent all its people because the heart of this problem is in iraq itself. if you ask who is responsible for running an iraqi state that is not extremist, that is not backed terror, that supports all people, that is the job of the iraqi government.

you cannot overestimate how important that is as part of the comprehensive plan to deal with this problem. andy? >> is it your understanding the 10 countries at the core coalition, that they are the countries prepared to take military action? if they are not, what does this amount to? >> at the danger of repeating myself, there was great unity at this conference about what needed to be done, about making sure we are backing those on the ground, helping the locals in the region and the rest of it. for britain's part, we don't rule anything out. we will act in our national interest. the sort of decisions you're talking about, we are not at that stage yet.

i think it is important we do it as part of a comprehensive plan. one more. why don't we have at the back over here? >> in two weeks, scottish voters will be deciding whether to stay with the u.k. or leave it. how will you explain to your partners in nato if there is a yes vote that one of its major allies is breaking up? can i ask whether the pledge would mean an independent scotland would have to agree to the 2% target as a condition of entering nato? >> i will be consistent as i have been throughout this campaign that all questions for what a separated scotland would have to do are effectively questions for alexander to answer. i don't think he has answered them effectively at all. for the united kingdom, i can answer this.

on nato questions and the rest of it, you have to ask him. there is total confusion about whether a separated scotland has a place in the european union, nato, or the rest of it. in terms of the last two weeks of this campaign, what i will be wanting to stress is what a vital and important question this is. it is a question for voters in scotland to consider for their future. but i take a very clear, loud message from the rest of the united kingdom, which is that we want you to stay. we care passionately about our family of nations. scotland can make a different choice. the scottish people are sovereign in this matter. this should be no doubt that the rest of the united kingdom wants them to remain part of our successful family of nations. when you reflect on the dangers

in our world, i don't think there is any doubt with live in a dangerous and insecure world. i would have thought one of the strongest arguments those of us who want to see the united kingdom stay together is to make in that dangerous world with terrorist threats, isn't it better to be part of a united kingdom that has a top five defense budget, some of the best security and intelligence services anywhere in the world, that is part of every alliance that really matters in the world in terms of nato, the g-8, the g-20, the european union, a permanent member of the security council of the u.n., to have all those networks and abilities to work with allies to keep us safe, isn't it better to have those things than to separate yourself from them? those are some of the arguments we will be making in the weeks to come before this vital vote. let me stress again it is a decision for the scottish

people. but i want them to know that as they make that choice, the rest of the united kingdom cares passionately about our family of nations and wants them to stay. thank you all very much for coming. i hope you have enjoyed being in wales as much as i have for this summit. let me say again, a big thank you to everyone, the police, our armed services. i think they have performed brilliantly. above all, to the people of wales who have given such a warm welcome to the world and have done the united kingdom absolutely proud, thank you. >> british foreign minister >> on monday the prime minister announced new measures to seize passports of u.k. citizen suspected of terrorism. the answered questions on the

scottish independence votes scheduled for september 18. prime minister's questions, sunday night on c-span. >> here are some highlights for this weekend. withr fcc commissioners campaign 2014 gearing up. from a california governor's race, jerry brown and neil cache kari. my guns allison halley things republicans can make gains for the hispanic vote. conversationn, a and phone calls with the former chair of the u.s. commission on civil rights. --urday unreal america

saturday unreal america. schedule and let us know what you think. e-mail us at comments at c-span.org. >> next, the nebraska supreme court hears arguments on the keystone xl pipeline. after that, the westward expansion in the united states. the nebraska stream court heard oral arguments on the keystone xl pipeline. breast the governor dave heinemann some landowners challenge the governor decision.

a lower court ruled the governor did not have the authority to approve the new route. this is 30 minutes. >> all rise. here ye, hear ye, hear, ye. >> thank you. you may be seated. good morning to everyone. our first case this morning is thompson versus heinemann.

good morning. >> good morning. i am here today. i would like to reserve three minutes of my time for rebuttal. we are asking this court to reverse the decision for two reasons. first, -- lb 1161 does not the exclusive jurisdiction. we stand on those arguments. we will turn now to the merits of our case. >> well, just a minute. on your standing, didn't we in cunningham versus x carve out an exception to the standing rule?

would you agree that this concerns a matter of great concern? >> yes. >> and that was a standing. and that case did not have a legal extend it through involved, correct? >> that is correct. >> why did exxon control that? >> in cunningham versus exxon, there was no one to actually challenge the constitutionality of the statute. it is not only that it has to be a matter of important public purpose, but there must be no individual or entity that can challenge the constitutionality of the statute. >> did we say that in cunningham? i believe we did, your honor. >> if there's illegal expenditure, does that go to both? >> illegal expenditure goes to the taxpayer standing analysis. we would argue that in this case, we would argue that the statute on its face requires

reimbursement for every expenditure associated with the statute implementation, and that there is no unlawful expenditure of taxpayer funds. >> if we were to decide that there was an illegal expenditure, what does that do to your argument? >> if there was an unlawful expenditure of taxpayer funds, we would still submit that this is a case where there are individuals better suited to bring this challenge. the taxpayer standing exception is limited to allow these particular appellees to go forward with limited exception. >> who is better suited to bring this lawsuit? >> for one, the pipeline carriers, who are actually subject to the regulations under lb 1161. >> why would a pipeline challenge this legislation?

the pipeline company would challenge this legislation because prior to its adoption, there was simply no restriction on their ability to engage in imminent domain. as long as they were entitled to, they were entitled to proceed with the pipeline. >> isn't it more beneficial now that they have two options? to have their application granted. >> i suppose it is more beneficial, that they have two options, but there are still argument to be made that if they wanted to challenge the constitutionality of the statute they can do so. >> when you said "every expenditure," could you explain that, please? you said that every expenditure would be reimbursed? does that encompass new money, old money, direct or indirect?

what you mean by that? >> within the record there is an affidavit, and every cost associated with the limitation of the development oflb 1161 in all of the cases that it was applied was reimbursed, not just over and above, but any imaginable task. -- cost. >> does the record reflect that expenditures were made above and beyond the appropriation made by the legislature? even though they may have been reimbursed. doesn't the record show that? >> the record shows there was an authorization of an appropriation of $2 million, and as i understand, the record

reflects an additional total amount was paid, but that the applicant paid the money as they went and never exceeded that $2 million limit. >> $2 million outstanding? is that your view? >> that is what the appropriation was by the legislature. >> and you are saying that the pattern of this reimbursement was such that it was never more than $2 million outstanding? >> that is manner standing, yes. >> in the decision of chambers, doesn't that confer upon taxpayers the illegal use of public money to pass the laws? >> yes, but again, in this case we were talking about a statute where it requires reimbursement on state and there is no illegal expenditure. >> if that is the case, then it would allow for an evasion of a standing for a taxpayer. >> well, on this, what we are talking about is a facial

challenge to the taxpayer, you are right. if there was a reimbursement provision, it would potentially foreclose a facial challenge to a taxpayer. >> what about the other case? does that have anything to do with standing? >> yes, it does. as this court held in riddum as to the commission's authority, it is to the claim of unlawful investment. >> this case is an outlier, isn't it? there are only three judges that decided the case, and for judges concurred without an opinion. -- four judges concurred without an opinion. is that a useful source for authority? >> but as to the pfc ability to challenge it, this court has never questioned whether or not -- or has never overturned the conclusion. >> has that been cited since?

>> it has been cited since in the number of taxpayer standing, but i'm not sure -- >> it was a statutory construction interpretation, wasn't it? >> that is correct. turning now to the merits, article four, section 20, set for the powers and duties of the pfc to include the regulation of rates, service, and general control of common carriers as the legislature may provide by law. in the absence of specific legislation, the pfc has plenary authority. the constitution of the united states allows the legislature to limit the pfc authority, and for pipeline companies, they have done so. nebraska statute 75.501 defined pipeline common carriers as those which operate intrastate in nebraska. the plaintiff is not challenging this statutory limit on the pfc authority.

the pfc has no constitutional jurisdiction over noncommon carriers. >> that statute was passed in, what, 1963? >> that is correct. >> and it had its origin in the statute in 1917, did it not? >> as i recall, that is correct. >> and you think that may have been passed to answer the concerns of the e lse ohio oil, -- the ohio oil, which was the standard case? >> as i recall, the iteration of 75.501 was still operating in nebraska and through nebraska. it never contemplated that carriers would go beyond that. >> maybe they were contemplating to ensure after that decision that nebraska would regulate intrastate common carriers, not to define common carriers. >> the intent was to regulate

common carriers, which operate intrastate. and by operation, they define what a common carrier was, which was those that operate intrastate in nebraska. >> in fact, our interstate pipelines largely regulated by the federal government? >> they are, your honor. in addition, lb 1161 only applies to those pipelines which are subject to a federal me the -- mepa review process. and they specifically excludes gather lanes, which are the typical intrastate pipelines within the state of nebraska. >> is this all about site location? >> it is all about site location and whether or not that falls within the plenary authority of

the pfc. we would submit that article four, section 20 applies to rates, service, and general control of the intrastate services. >> how are you using the legendary of authority? -- plenary authority? >> as it applies to the intrastate common carriers. >> the source is what? >> the constitution. >> and you do not distinguish from relying on the definition in chapter 75. >> correct. and intrastate pipelines would not be subject to the common carrier definition. pfc only has the authority that the legislature would otherwise provide to them. >> you are implying that the federal government has totally occupied the field of regulation in the intrastate pipeline. >> no, that is not an issue that has been raised by the appellees

in this case. >> why would citing not come under general control? >> when you look at the cases that involve siting, for example, with rivets having a pfc authority, it is because of the customers along that route. they wanted service to be a part of this, to send their goods down a particular railroad. here, the appellees are not concerned with wanting service or any sort of thing along that line. they want to make sure that this pipeline does not run down this particular route. and therefore, it falls outside of the rates, service, and general control that would generally apply to the pfc. >> in your use of the word service, are we to understand that you mean delivery intrastate. >> that is correct, your honor. >> there are a lot of people

that look for service. if it goes through your property, does this, does that. >> yes, of course, the pipeline affects all kinds of people. that is why the state of nebraska has determined that for good public purpose that the pipeline be constructed within the state of nebraska and go through these routes so that the goods they are providing are provided. >> can i connect that a little bit to the whole picture? what do you think the trial judge did wrong? >> i believe the trial court was concerned because the particular pipeline company had eminent domain authority, and she saw the eminent domain authority is being equated with common carriers. and while common carriers have eminent domain authority, the legislature has afforded that

authority to a broader group, and we would submit that it is not just common carriers. it is intrastate pipelines, which are not common carriers under the plane definition language under 75.501, also have that eminent domain. >> would and intrastate carrier be a common carrier under the common law definition of that term? >> the common law definition, as pointed to by district court, is actually a prior redirection of -- iteration of the statute, which again, if you read it closely, it says "operating in between locations within nebraska." again, the common law there even contemplates intrastate. with that, i will save my time for rebuttal. >> thank you very much. mr. domina, good morning. >> good morning, your honor. may it please the court, i am dave domina, and i'm here on behalf of the three landowners that challenge lb 1161 and contend that it violates several

provisions of the nebraska constitution. one of those was discussed earlier today, article four, section 20. in addition to that, additional ways for a pipeline applicant to seek permission to build a pipeline in the brusca provides for a route that is without judicial review. if it goes to the governor and the governor makes the decision of the kind that would otherwise be made with legal limits apply, with proof required, and with due process hearing, if the governor makes that decision and set of the pfc, there is no judicial review in this statute. for that simple and specific reason, i'm answered by the attorney general see the court's decision today as simple and straightforward. >> excuse me. standing? >> yes, we do believe our clients have standing. for three separate reasons. the one that has not been discussed thus far is direct

standing. i want to recall some dates. lb 1161 was enacted by the legislature on april 17. we filed this lawsuit on may 23 or 25. i don't recall which date right now. the record contains an exhibit 18, which is a voluminous exhibit. it includes within exhibit 18 that appendix b, a root, and that route in that appendix came into existence in september after we filed our lawsuit. the affidavit evidence we offered on the standing issue establishes that our clients are landowners and taxpayers and as -- that their land is or was on the route. the affidavits were made after exhibit 18 came into existence. >> with respect to think of -- to plaintiff thompson, the

allegation is merit in lancaster county. is that right? >> right. >> and at the time they commenced a lawsuit -- those were after. >> the route was fluid. as a matter of fact, at the time that we filed this facial challenge, there was no route. there have been discussions, but no filing with the public service commission or with the governor. there was no permit because the statute authorizing it had not been enacted. >> so as the route morphed. they are still plaintiff's in your view. >> we think they are still direct plaintiffs. >> we are talking about the final reroute. >> exhibit 18 is the final reroute, your honor. >> do we have any addresses or legal descriptions of the

property your clients own? >> we do not. we also do not have any addresses are legal descriptions of the route. if you look at exhibit 18, what it does is identify in a very rough, non-meets and bounds way where this pipeline would purport to go, plus or minus a mile on either side in a map drawn in exhibit 18. there are no legal descriptions in the record. we think that the standing issue, the direct standing issue, makes us appropriate point is. -- appropriate plaintiffs. the taxpayer standing issue does as well. and of course, cunningham versus exxon, this is obviously a case of substantial public interest and has commanded the subsequent attention of a general session, a letter from the governor to the president of the united states, and action that is in

record by the u.s. state department. we think that standing is not a matter that is of concern here today. >> on the issue of direct standing, didn't the district court concluded that your client did not have direct standing. >> it did, your honor, and did so because it specifically said that our landowner plaintiffs own real estate which is or was on the pipeline route. that is why i was careful to pull out the dates and identify those this morning for the court. >> did you cross-appeal on that determination? what is no, we did not. we did not because we took the position strictly that we have standing, since standing is jurisdictional. we think we only need one kind of standing. we did not need to cross-appeal

the direct standing findings of the court. >> in regard to taxpayer standing, we have spoken about whether or not there is a better plaintiff. who has the burden to show that? >> your honor, the party that challenges standing must show that a better plaintiff that exists. >> what is your authority for that? >> you made findings that strongly suggests that as recently as your knox county taxpayers decision, banks versus heineman, i think your project extra mile clearly discloses that it was not the nonprofit challenge for the liquor statute that had to identify an alternate plaintiff. and the rationale was that you would put a taxpayer who seeks to sue in the position of proving a negative. if the proposition were to prove there is no one better to sue than us. instead, the proposition to be proven is someone identified better to sue than you. >> the state argues that the carriers would be the proper party. >> yes, i heard that this morning.

there are, of course, none identified. the state has never suggested there is another applicant for an international border crossing permit that seeks to put a pipeline through nebraska, which is this specific class of statute. when it says "other carriers" it is motioning to the universe without identifying another potential plaintiff. >> can the pfc challenge the statue? >> i don't think the public service commission is in a place of standing here. it has a route, and it is in place. its route is in a place that is not a part of this litigation. if we were to conclude that the pfc is duty bound to challenge any statute that might affect his jurisdiction, we set up interagency disputes within the state government that i don't

think are consistent with your finding with your previous holdings. i do think the previous cases have suggested that they are outlines. it is much clearer that your jurisprudence has moved in the direction of making sure that when there is an expenditure issue that is challenge, a taxpayer can make that challenge, unless it is altogether clear that the taxpayer is meddling in a problem that involves someone who is a dramatically more directly affected player. >> a better one. >> yes. >> would than to have rule written? >> no, you don't. it is a morality opinion. it is confined to narrow facts, and for good reasons. your jurisprudence has decided that in the past. you could overrule it, but i don't think it would be here properly. >> i think the state has relied that is the definition of a common carrier. >> yes, and if i do not get to our cross-appeal issues, and i

may not, i want to be sure that i say that we think we win on all of the cross-appeal photo. -- cross-appeal issues. >> which one is your strongest? >> i don't want to lose justice connolly, your honor, but i think my best argument is that it is standardless when the gubernatorial route for approval is taken. in order to ensure there is a valid delegation of authority, assuming there can be a delegation, it is standardless in this statute. i don't think there should be a delegation. as a lawyer and part-time banker, i really like our credit of the state argument, too, but i will answer the justice's question about 75.501. it is a statute that has a

history very closely related to u.s. supreme court jurisprudence. , as you said a few moments ago. it does not purport to define the outer limits of the public service commissions constitutional authority. it does not purport to define the legislatures limitations on its subsequent and enactments that involve the public service commission. it does not purport to say that a common carrier, using a pipeline as the mode of transportation of cargo for the public, has to be intrastate in order to be effective. as we said in our brief on page 14, we identify five separate reasons why that argument fails. i think the best of those is that at any particular moment,

or hour or week, a pipeline can be either an intrastate or interstate carrier. it can switch back and forth, just like a trucking company can do. >> in fact, the regulation of this pipeline is largely federal, is it not? >> only in so far as safety is concerned, your honor. there are no federal siting regulations. >> does the public service commission have any authority to control the rate, for example, the way our gas would move through this pipeline? >> if it had intrastate commerce, it does. if it is interstate commerce, i don't begin to. >> so largely, this is about site location. >> i think it is entirely a site location case, your honor.

and i think the aspect of major oil pipeline law leaves those issues to the states. the states are charged with evaluating their resources, the needs of their people, and all of those things that the public service commission is directed to consider in order to make a quasijudicial finding that is subject to judicial review. here, the governor doesn't have to do any of those things. i think that is another reason why, frankly, section 75.501 should not be seen as an anyway confining the reach of article four, section 20. >> what is the governor expected to do under lb 1161? >> your honor, under lb 1161, i think what the governor is expected to do are these. number one, provided office of application. number two, dispatch the department of environmental quality to conduct some non-oats driven, nonjudicial procedure

whereby evidence is gathered. number three, received, but not in a silly consider that report. four, make a decision about that report and permit with no standards other than as to read the report. that is it. the gubernatorial avenue here is clearly designed to preclude any citizen input in a judicial setting and in any judicial review. >> how do those tasks relate to the bestowing of eminent domain? >> what you asked about the governor is expected to do, i think i answered correctly. the governor is permitted to identify a for-profit applicant and be restricted in the power of eminent domain. that power is also improperly

delegated to the governor. >> because the domain flows from approval. it is layered. >> it absolutely does. it is not a categorical brand, like the legislature and counties. this is the legislature to a specific applicant, maybe one of 5, 10, 15 applicants for similar authority. >> does your argument with respect to 75 point 501 consistent with the city of bear case? -- does your argument with respect to 75.501 consistent with the city of bayer case? >> i think the city of bayer case is inconsistent with my argument to some extent. the city of bayer case is specifically a strictly intrastate case. and at issue is whether the applicant in that case engaged in any actual commerce that was of any interstate character. and the finding of the court was that there was no interstate

activity participated in. the question we have here was not really reached by bayard. if carefully read, it is not authority for proposition contrary to our contentions. your honors, we respectfully request that you affirm the judgment of the district court, find that article four, section 20 was offended and that our clients have standing, and affirm the judgment of the district court, even if you don't find article four, section 20 was violated for any of those reasons we specified in our cross-appeal. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. do we have time for rebuttal? >> one minute and 42. >> one minute and 42 seconds. >> thank you. you all seem to like bayard, is that right?

>> we do. it stands for the standpoint of -- actually come in the holding of bayard, they were talking about the pipeline that wasn't interstate pipeline that relied on the domain authority of interstate pipelines. at the time, those were separate statutory authorities for engaging in eminent domain. first, i would like to point out that this is a facial challenge and the plaintiffs must show that there is no unlawful application of this law which exists. during counsel's argument, it was pointed out that no applicants of a pipeline carrier with an international border permit pending. this shows exactly the one application that involves an interstate pipeline, which would not be a common carrier under the plain definition of 75.501.

>> would it be a common carrier under the common law definition? >> it would not, because the common law definition as i mentioned earlier, is one that says they operate in nebraska and through, but not outside of nebraska. turning briefly to the due process clause, the governor in approval of a route does not deprive these applicant of life, liberty, or property without just compensation. if it occurs, it occurs during an imminent domain proceeding, where landowners will have their day in court and be entitled to challenge whether or not it was for public use and whether or not they received just compensation. i would ask the court to please reverse the ruling of the district court and uphold lb 1161 as constitutional. >> thank you very much. >> president obama has said he will make a decision on the xo pipeline project after he receives a recommendation from the state department regarding the pipelines potential environmental impact after the state judge ruling earlier this year. the department announced it

would delay its report until the nebraska supreme court issues -- ruling. >> washington times chief patrice hill will talk about the latest job numbers for august. and james lewis from the center for strategic and international the security of information stored in computers and servers on the cloud of. we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. washington journal, live at 70 -- liveern on c-span. at 7 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> here's a message from congress. >> we've encountered mental

illnesses. throughout those years, we have seen how i lack of -- how a lack of support could lead to emotional distress. schmidtis felix and i was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. i went to the hospital after an episode -- like an attack sent me there. i went straight to be a an-patient. they diagnosed me after five minutes of talking to me for bipolar. to dr. few weeks, i went to dr. looking for someone who actually listened. it took me over a year to find a doctor. totrongly encourage congress provide funding for people who struggle with mental illness and continued to allocate resources

for those who are in need. >> join us next wednesday during washington journal for the 2015 c-span student camp competition. tonight, going west. first the st. louis. -- first to st. louis to visit the museum of westward expansion. then a look at the expedition led by william clark and meriwether lewis. and we'll speak with an author who wrote a book about the lewis and clark expedition. after that, first transcontinental railroad. after that, journeys along the mormon trail, the pony express, from the national historic trails interpretive center in casper, wyoming. next, a tour of the museum of westward expansion.

our tour guide is a historian with the national park service. >> we're in the museum of westward expansion which is the main museum here at jefferson national memorial. it tells the story of the settlement of the american west during the 19th century. we're actually underground, directly below the 630-foot stainless steel arch. originally there were going to be surface buildings that would have housed museums and restaurant complexes and things like that but the national parks service which runs the site and the architect both saw that the arch would be better served to stand alone, to be unrivaled by anything else.

so they decided to put everything underground, all the infrastructure to run the arch, all of the visitor facilities would be beneath the ground. and so that's how this museum came to be located where it is, beneath where the arch is. in terms of what this museum has to offer, our current museum, it basically holds a capsule story of westward expansion during the 19th century and it's laid out with rings of time that are above our heads, concentric rings that are almost like ripples in a pond as if you dropped a stone into a pond and the ripples emanate outward and that's what happened here starting with our statue of thomas jefferson and extending through the 19th century so the first time ring is 1800 and the last one is 1900. our current museum will not be here very much longer. in the next couple of years

we're going to be reconfiguring the museum so that it will probably tell a slightly different story than this one tells. l probably tell a slightly different story than this one tells. right now our museum tells a common to is pretty telling a general overview of theward expansion and western part of the united states. what we want to do in our new exhibits is focus more on st. louis' role specifically in so there willsion be a shift there. whener shift will be that this museum was created back in telling the more story of kind of anglo white going from the eastern part of the continent to the wayern part, which is a that, in a sense, the way historians have looked at the westward expansion era, it's been looked at in a different start to see that's definitely telling part of the story.

we want to tell the story of cultural groups who went into the west, of native americans who were already living there, of hispanic people andwere already there especially the story of st. louis which already had the timeor 40 years by the louisiana purchase was made jefferson authorized lewis and clark to go into the west. immediately after the louisiana purchase, lewis and clark went on their famous journey of exploration out to the west they opened a new era in american history where it was the government would have explorers, mostly were in the military, tointo the west and try identify the important things area.ere located in that it was something that the 18th

century minds, that thomas jefferson felt was important. legacy so even after jefferson was long gone, there were still groups of explorers who were officially going into the west. there was a whole section of the topographical corps, that was founded in the 1830's goal of tryingic the entiredescribe geographical area of what the --ted states occurred to considered to be its territory exploration kept going on through the 1870's and still, there were explorers going out there trying to quantify and qualify that they were seeing. happenher that needed to before people went out to settle theefore some of exploitation of the west for commercial purposes took place i

but its an open question was the way that, as i say, the orderly scientific mind of the 18th century looked at things and they felt this is the logical first step, that we would send people out to explore. have manyely we don't items from these early explorers, none from lewis and clark. in our new museum we hope to artifacts thatf were used in the steven long and 1820 that1818 are significant. but we do have a number of instruments of the type that these explorers would have taken into the west with like thisruments transit that would have been used to help map the areas that were seeing. we have other instruments that theirhelp them to find longitude, their place on the earth at any one time, and help them to actually draw the maps of where they were going, what

ofy were seeing, that type thing. but that's mostly what we have are the scientific instruments that would have been used by the explorers. government to actual exploration, a lot of the west was actually explored by people we call today mountain men, tople who went into the west trap beaver fur, in particular, makey to sell and try to money for them. a lot of them were actually involved in large fur trading companies. they were employees but they stayed in the mountains, they there year round. and they -- just by virtue of they were trying to find areas where beaver were thated, went into areas only native americans had seen before them. that by virtued of this commercial enterprise that these guys found probably more than the official voyages

of exploration did that were the government. this part of the museum tells the overland pioneers who started to go west the earlyumbers in 1840's and continued right 1860's,the end of the up until the time when the transcontinental railroad built. to be the idea of going west during this time was an idea of trying to acquire free land, most of it in oregon, and then as time went course, the finding of gold in california opened up a the rush chapter in for people to get to the west. the idea in these early days was liket from an area missouri all the way to the west coast. they were not really interested in settling in the areas in between. so they had to find first a way wayet there and that ideal

was through south path in bestng, and then the conveyance to get them there, ad that turned out to be wagon like the one you can see over my shoulder. usuallye of wagon was built as a farm wagon but a lot of people either took the existing wagons they had on their farm or bought one like one to go west in. it's really a lot smaller than a lot of people expect to see. of people think of the conestoga wagons which are huge compared to this one but they were really too large take over the terrain that the people were going to encounter. kind of a system or west.nce, going but you can kind of romanticize veryrip because it was dangerous. a lot of times in the hollywood

circling the them wagons and the indians coming to pass. did thatly, if ever, happen. and there were very few deaths along the trail that had with the indians. the indians actually helped the pioneers more than hurting them. dangers came in, first of all, disease, which probably killed about 10% of the people cholera,west, mostly and also things like drownings death by gunshot, being run over by a wagon. kidshappened to a lot of who were climbing on the wagon the wheelsf and would roll over them. a real grim side to this mass migration. it was really an migration.ed mass >> we're talking about over

300,000 people during the period question what kind of packed up everything and literally went urgeds forest greeley people to do. in our new exhibit we hope to wagon and telld the story more from the point of view of st. louis because there's a lot of places in the tell the story of the visitorspioneers with centers and things like that on the oregon trail for you to that.about and we feel that people here should know how the overlanders and aady for their trip lot of them came through st. louis and purchased things -- their wagons and their the food they were going to need and all their supplies. so that's what we're going to dwell on a little more. we'll still have the covered wagon on display and then we'll have a lot of the items that they would take with them, can artifacts that people look at, and talk about how they actuallyk a wagon and cram all these things in for this long journey that they

take. 1850's, st. louis was the third busiest port in the united states. and this levy, which was just outside where the arch is today, of steamboats lined a levy thatide as were loading and unloading passengers and taking goods to all different parts of the country. of an exciting part of the st. louis story and one of the reasons why it was so settlement of the west. see behindthat you me is a pilot's wheel. it's a real wheel. aguess you would call it steering wheel, that was on a riverboat and a lot of people it and say it's so huge, how did you steer? it displayed is a little -- it gives a false impression because where the hub wheel is would actually of thee the floor was

pilot. only one half of the wheel stuck up above the level of the floor and it was still rather large. on tore still grabbing the wheel pretty high up but you wouldn't see the entire wheel. it was below the deck of the pilot's house. recalls the days when mark twain was a riverboat pilot. he actually got his license here in st. louis to be a pilot on the mississippi river. thing, 1860's and 1870's, the river transportation based here in st. louis started to decline because railroads were taking up much of the slack of moving things from place to place. many places in the american west that really were only accessible by railroad. the rivers were just too wild or went in the wrong direction. there were some areas that could be still supplied by river

but a lot was done by railroad a certain point in time. st. louis is still a port today, though. is that its long barges that are taken up and down the river rather than dealing with the riverboats that they used to have, steam riverboats, and instead of having the port where it was, which is in front of the arch on the levy, today the port of st. louis stretches for 18 miles the mississippi river, going on either side of the city center itself. the port is kind of everywhere but where it was at ae time and deals with different type of boat and form of the the barges than would have been the 19thh back in century. the designer of the museum put together in the early 1970's and he found when he

you seethe layout that today, with the time rings up above and telling the chronological story, he sort of corner himself in a because where does it end? endourse it doesn't anywhere. time keeps marching on. may haveexpansion era ended but united states history keeps going on and that's one reason why at the back of the pictures of's things like the moonwalk and the atomic bomb going off and all of things, to show that history didn't stop. the main thing, though, was what wall, and ite back was his wife who actually came up with the solution to that which was to -- they commemorate could the lewis and clark trail and the idea that it's still there go outo if you want to and paddle or walk or drive the cans and clark trail, you still do that. so they sent a photographer out

take imagesail to during the same seasons that the explorers really would have been that's what resulted in these floor-to-ceiling murals see here at the very back of the museum. so the lewis and clark trail west itselfhe becomes kind of the alpha and the omega. explorers first saw when they went out there and it's also what you can >> tonight's look at the people, places and events of westward expansion is part of c-span's cities tour where we travel across the country highlighting the literary life and history of each city we visit. travel across the country highlighting of literary life and history each city we visit. you can see more at c-span.org. tab, thenhe series c-span cities for tour. pompeys pillar is a sand stone

rock formation in montana. c-span took a tour of the pompeys pillar national historic landmark. natives have engraved on the face of this rock the which iof animals near marked my name and the day of year.nth and this morning, we're going to pompeys national monument, talk a little bit the site.history of why is this place so important to the history not only of the united states but also the stone county,low montana, as well as the west in

general. what i often tell students that come here, i want people to what was it like 200 years ago. party are coming down the yellow stone river lewis andmeet up with as they're coming down the riv they're having to stop at various intervals. are they stopping for? they're stopping to hunt, to gather food. they're stopping because. immense herds of buffalo crossing the river and when i immense, i'm talking about they of buffalo so large, would stop for four to six hours for the buffalo to cross the river. another reason they would stop is simply partly just curiosity and the natural intent of an explorer which is to look at the land and see the land. thosewe think about all things, and as we tell the story

they, clark is coming down yellow stone and that morning they had gotten up, they had hunted, they had seen immense herds of buffalo and he decides river and walk see this, this large sand stone outcrop here just naturallys part of human interest to want large, to something climb up on top of it and look around and that's exactly what he did. explorer, somebody looking to traverse the west, to about maps, to learn landscape, -- the the natural history, he ascends the pillar, goes up on top, triangulates his position, comes back and on his way down he leaves his mark, here, his signature, thus leaving behind the only remaining on-site physical evidence of the entire lewis and clark expedition. this signature represents not

just the visit of clark but i think of it as signifying the a legacysomething, that had actually in some ways been here before him. signature on july 25, 1806, and then subsequently chronicled inand his journals led a lot of folks to traveled across the west come to this rock, mark their names as well as drawings, ofcriptions, all kinds things, all over the rock. as you look from his signature can see to the left you all of these different signatures and marks and names the entire rock all along pompeys pillar are these signatures, hundreds of them, starting off explorers and going on to the homesteaders traveling to the modern era, folks that tilled the land for agriculture.

we would probably find some local high school es names on here from the 1960's to 1970's. tells a story that continues on today with this legacy of all these people by so eachpassed time a visitor comes here, given longer write on the rock, they leave that legacy, too. that legacytioned, started before clark so if you look at the rock, you can see markings on the rock in a reddish hue. are native american pictographs and petroglyphs. i'll explain why there was a significance to the site given the as well as great and immense hunting available to the native here and that lived used the area. this rock i ascended and from

had a most extensive view in every direction. after satisfying myself sufficiently in this delightful prospect of the extensive the immensend and buffalo, ik and ascended on. we are standing on the top of peas pillar national monument. a story overo tell 200 years by standing in one spot. is beinglso remarkable able to stand here and see the landmarks and the landscape for what it was 200 years ago but also for what it is today. the first thing is the animals. clark was here 200 years ago, this landscape was covered elk, antelope, all kind of different species who have been here and with them the same predators we've read of mountains -- kouyate, lions and the wolf.

thoseuld ask why are animals here? as you look at the cliff formation behind me, you see the natural break. this was a funnel. these rams run all the way to a distance touite the east so here we have a herds ofreak where -- other animals would have been able to cross feed. native americans had this large platform to stand upon and use for cultural assemblies and hunting. if you think about the number of been inthat would have this area on a regular basis so when we think about that and think about the changes because the buffalo herds aren't here anymore. elk seen.still some the big horn sheep seen by clark on the cliffs are no longer here. have a few mountain lions hanging out in the area coyotes wander around.

are still hereks and they tell the story of the west. of thoseillar is one rare places you can tell an entire story of our country's place.om one about the core of bycovery expedition led andiam lark and -- clark mary wether lewis. american history tour spoke to stephanie ambrose tubbs. that some of the biggest misconceptions about the lewis and clark expedition are that it was just a lark or a big family camping trip. part of that is because they had them.with they had an african american slave with them and they also had a young indian woman so that

kind of makes you feel like well just a big large family but actually it was a military expedition and it was sent by jefferson to survey what was outside of what was then the started ates so they st. louis and they went all the way to astoria, oregon, which at the louisianajust purchase, basically. and the louisiana purchase much stopped where they started getting into the mountains and that's when they with tribes that they really didn't know were out they were doing a survey for jefferson is what their mission was. 1803 to 1806 been were the years that they did the expedition. years ine many preparation for it but we call 1803 to 1806 the years of the expedition. mary wethercked because he was his private secretary when he was president

and lewis picked william clark because they worked together and had become friends. i believe the line he united -- used was i would prefer no one else other than on the expedition with me. clark was always called captain mind he was the co-partner. there was no distinction in rank. their first months, they were sure that the group they got together, the 30 were up to the task so they were trying to enforce military order to teach them they needed to know to get the boats going up the river. they also wanted to make sure no gentlemanre sons, they wanted them to be single, young men, good hunters. they started -- there were some, just say, some indiscretions in the beginning.

involvethem would getting into the whiskey. they brought whiskey with them rations of the day. at that time, the military officers would give little thereefuls to the men so was a big storage keg of whiskey and some of the men got into that and that would cause disruption in the ranks. and so they would discipline and one of the ways they would discipline them was have the men do a court martial and men would decide who was guilty so that was another way of getting the men together as a unit and saying we will enforce discipline and one of the things they did was called the gauntlet where they would have the men line up on either side, have men and these mendown would be whipping them with rods or sticks asfle they went by and another way was just lashes well laid on, as they said. but because lewis and clark had firm disciplinary actions to

of counteract that, that was all settled. by the time they took off from st. louis, things were in working order and everybody respected both captains so their montana, it was either feast or famine. when they were on the plains they wouldb bison, eat pounds of meat a day but they were burning it off. more likeey looked runners. but their experience in montana, then they started getting the mountains, towards this area and hitting the mountains meant it's not going it had been, as even though they were poling up river, they realized we have to transport all this stuff over the mountains in order to find northwest passage which finde say they never did the northwest passage but they did find the drainage of the

toumbia and they were able get on to the columbia and ocean. to the the gates of the oceans, when lewis got here it must have been the evening because he said everything wore a dark and gloomy aspect. that it hade been just rained and the rocks would darker and a lot they were looking for a place to set up camp but they couldn't sufficient ground space for all the men to set up their tents so they finally we believe on an island at the mouth of this canyon and that's where to stop for the night. we joke that he came to the and itf the mountains was a dark and gloomy aspect but beautiful place and it's gorgeous. so it's the mountains and they there goes all the game and we have to rely on our findn friends to help us the meat and find the trail and

the lemiat both were verynd nes purse instrumental in helping them. met sacagawea in president placerth dakota at a called the knife river villages lemihe had been a shashoney girl who was kidnapped and brought to the villages where she was traded or bought trapper named toussaint shashno. married to a french trapper when lewis and clark came through and since they were translators and people to interpret, they looked at him and looked at her as theirof being interpreters as they traveled up the river and she would have delivered her son, baptiste shashno

february 11, 1905, and he was 3 she carried him on her back the whole way. a lot of people, especially when this young having native american indian woman with them, a lot of times in american history we condense things down to the simplest element and a lot of people were raised thinking she's the one pointed the way, she brought these white guys. was, what happened was she along for the journey and by her sheer presence the other indian tribes would see her and the baby and they'd see the dog and say this is really not a war party. somethingle are doing else, they're not coming here to start fights. so just by her physical presence was kind of a token of peace. was aen she -- there place over by bozeman where she identified a pass that her was able toand she say, this is the way we went, her "myain clark calls pilot" at that point so there

are instances where she recognized land forms and was able to say to the captains, i'm recognizing this, we're in the my homeland. another place is down by beaver head rock so i like to say that and herlligence worthiness to the expedition was based on the fact that she paid close attention when they were sitting around the camp fire with her people and they would about, well, we're going to go to where the bison this route we go by that goes by a big rock that looks like a beaver's head. so her -- she could have really cartographer in she knewight because the stories and her people would moved seasonally and they around according to where their food source would be and when to the man dan, that was a whole 'nother lesson for put,ecause they stayed they remember farmers,

raisedians and the women the crop so she knew a lot about plants from them so here more complicated than people think. misconceptions around lewis and they were friendly and they always got along and and were brothers in arms always united. i think there were time when lewis really tested the because heof clark was kind of the more moody one and clark was more the glue that held the expedition together. oftentimes lewis would be on the shore gathering specimens or walking with his dog and hunting whereas clark was with the men day-to-day with the orders and keeping them in those kind and all of things so these guys were and alsorking hard working hard. they were trying to move all boatsquipment, all these up the river to find the

northwest passage and they were do a job that one of the most brilliant leaders in our history it given them, had picked basically these people to do it so they really anybody downto let and i think that added to their cohesiveness. maybe one guy who left the expedition. he went awol. them, they were relying on each other and they really believed that if they a unit, thatre, they would come home fine and they would get that land grant they would be able to tell all these great stories. the important role that lewis and clark played in u.s. history came out here and they told jefferson what was out here. they were the surveyors. took the the ones that notes, that gathered the keep ans, that tried to list of the languages, the vocabularies of the native americans. they really were citizen scientists sent out to just get of everything that they saw and some things, like i

bibison, you couldn't even count because there were so many of them but they wanted to give their report to jefferson here's whatsay we're going to encounter as our generations fill up the canvas. here's what's out there, this amazing wealth resource and they that brought it back, they brought the report thatand told jefferson, purchase was worth it. people,ht's look at the places and events of westward expansion is part of c-span's we travelr where across the country heigl -- literary lifehe and history of each city we visit. more at c-span.org, click on the series tab and click the link for c-span cities tour. our american history tour on westward expansion continues

here on c-span. in 1869, railroad tycoon leland drove the ceremonial final spike into the ground to complete the first railroad.nental the golden spike, as it was ogden,was struck outside utah. next, a visit to the golden spike national historic site. promontory summit utah golden spike national site, walking over to where the transcontinental railroad was completed. bys spot right here marked the lower wood tie is within inches of where the original was held on may 10, 1869. tie is a plaque that lists many of the dignitaries from that company, the central pacific, in particular, including leland

stanford's name and the big four are all marked there. another thing you can see here withe site is a connection the resources that would have been available to the two companies building the railroad. we've actually mocked up everything to try to make it as authentic as possible. look on the west side, you're going to see precut ties. had plenty pacific of wood in the sierra-nevadas cut allsaw mills and their ties, brought them down from the mountains. whereas the union pacific from to hand cut their wherever they could find wood. not a lot available in many of the areas so they would split them and you can see them locked here, how they would cut them and bring them out when they could. the transcontinental railroad was happening at the end of the victorian age as you were going age and itdustrial was a perfect time for the united states because when that transcontinental railroad was completed, it made a major

impact in the industrial development of this nation. the complete construction took about 6 1/2 it was to 1869. from 1862 time period just before they started building the transcontinental railroad would have been when a lot of people after the gold rush, silver rush was really taking off. we were also in the middle of civil war when the act was signed to start this project. abraham lincoln really wanted to have access to all the materials that were available in the sierra-nevadas including that gold and silver and connect the new states that had just been united states. so he chose that time to and starthe act building the transcontinental railroad. obviously in the middle of the war, defense of the country was a big kind of major factor that was making the decision. they wanted to be able to get troops across the country in a

quicker period. they also wanted to cut the time of shipping goods. the raw goods that would be made factories back east and the finished goods that would go over to the new states out in four to six months around the horn, slipping all down around south america, was hopefully going to andut to about two weeks that was lincoln's goal, to get troops across the country in two that itd it ended up was seven to 10 days that they were able to get things across once it wasonce completed. the two companies that started transcontinental railroad were the central pacific railroad company that started in sacramento, unionrnia, and the pacific railroad company that started in omaha, nebraska. the problems the whole time is the companies were building before they go the paid. so they were almost always in debt, always worrying about money. resources.roblem was huge problem with resources. if you've ever traveled across

there'sand nebraska, not a lot of wood and if you look underneath the rails, placed all had to be along the route just for the railroad. to buildwould have buildings for water towers or just the infrastructure of allating the railroad across the country. another huge problem, because war, ite in the civil was finding manpower to building end of thed and the civil war actually was a huge help for the railroad companies had all these veterans from the war looking theirway to provide for lives, their livelihood, and there was a ready employer in the railroad companies. now, for the central pacific, this was even a bigger concern because a lot of times especially early on in the building of the railroad, a lot of their workers would just come on long enough to obtain money gold ord mine in the the silver fields or mines.

that's actually why the chinese were eventually brought experiment. they just brought on 50 chinese workers initially to test them out. there was a lot of doubts because of the stature. they didn't think they'd be able withstand the 10 to 12 hour days, six days a week. the a lot of criticism and i guess you could say racism against the chinese overcame ally they those doubts and did a fantastic job. so well, in fact, that over 11,000 chinese were employed by the end of the transcontinental railroad between the two companies. as theypanies approached each other were being paid land grants and government build and they didn't want to give up ground to each other so instead of coming and giving up and finding out where they would to buildy continued past one another until the federal government told them they wouldn't pay them anymore

until they figure out where they meet so that's when they selected the spot where we're standing right beside and it gave both the companies 30 miles of track they had to finish in the last month. over somelooking down of the wetlands of the great salt lake. two major factors influenced the path across the whole route. fresh watering available every 15 to 30 miles wouldill the tanks that boilershe water for the on the steam loc motives. needed toing is they stay under the 2% grade. as they were trying to find utah, one ofough the challenges they faced is there was the large saltwater allow any fresh water, but they had to find a path around it. and they were thinking about the wet landhrough area but one of the engineers brought what if the lake level rises so they decided to come up on the foothills north

the lake, even though that would present more challenges grading, but to stay away from the lake and prevent damaging the railroad. another thing you can see from the site is if you look down just below us you can see the other grade. i mentioned earlier that the two theanies building across country passed each other through utah with grade work want to givedidn't up money that the federal providing so done below us is the union pacific been that would have abandoned less than a year after the completion of the transcontinental railroad when they sold their rights to the central pacific railroad company. because the central pacific had through utah a lot longer, they had a higher quality grade so when they the rights from the union pacific, they switched over to their grade. what we're standing on. we're coming up to the last cut

pacific in union their proven to promontory summit value right here. in just a minute we'll be able to look down and you can actually see, in order to get through different elevation changes, they would cut through rock and blast with black powder, making these channels buildhey could actually the railroad through. now, the work you're seeing, these berms or hills up on the far side of this cut is from the 1860's. this is actually rock that was stacked up and you can actually even kind of put some bigger rocks to act as a wall, retaining wall, to keep that from collapsing down into the cut. and so it's pretty neat. that has lasted now.t 150 years

as they approached the actual ceremony and they figured out spot here at promontory summit, a lot of people were in knowing when they were complete and they actually had a lot of reporters from all over the country that came out dignitaries from the two companies. a lot of individuals from the other companies that would with the main line and benefit with their businesses day that was the set for the completion when the federal government made the two companies set when they would finish and where was may 8. we hold our anniversary every that ismay 10 and because there was a delay on the union pacific getting out here able to holdnot the ceremony until that day. when they actually held the neat partsne of the of the story, they did have the

spikes which one of them gives us our name. four ceremonial spikes, including two solid gold, a solid silver and the arizona spike which was an iron, silver and gold spike. and because they're a precious not drive theld spikes. they would have to predrill holes just like you see here on those precious metal spikes into these holes. we often are asked where the was.spike we actually don't know which position the gold spike would have held. placed those in as part of the ceremony, the dignitaries placed them in and tapped them in as part of the ceremony. then they removed all that and there was a last spike that was driven so when you hear the spike, it the last wasn't the gold spike, it was a regular iron spike that was telegraph.o the they tied the telegraph wires around the spike and the hammer drove it in, it sent a broadcast, live coverage

actuallye country and started celebrations all throughout the nation. the ceremony, one of the famous pictures you often see is the champagne photo. for that photo, there were two locomotives here on site and we have replicas of those two a dailythat operate on basis throughout our summer season. centralknown the pacific jupiter and union pacific 119. locomotives have become two of the most famous locomotives in american railroading so being able to run those is a cool way to commemorate that. ceremony, a lot of pictures were taken and then the becameon of the railroad huge throughout the country. because they were trying to and efficiency within these companies them, eventually the line that was through this area was bypassed. a trestle bridge and

the nevada-utah border straight across the point promontory mountains that are just behind us straight into ogden. extraut about 80 miles of travel time, money, all of that, off of the operation of that line.ontinental ogden became a huge hub for transporting troops and materials and supplies all across the country and would have trains every hour coming in just unloading huge or people supplies and it became a major city, movinghoroughfare for across the country. >> we continue our look at westward expansion here on c-span. the national look at theue our american westward expansion. through casper, wyoming. 19th century, migrants on the oregon trail, the mormon trail, the pony

the california trail traveled through casper on their coast.the pacific >> we are here at the national interpretivels center. the trails center addresses the oregon trail, the mormon trail, california trail and the pony express trail. weret matter twr why you going west, didn't matter which trail you were on. if you were going west, you had casper, wyoming, because south pass is the only --s in the rollercoaster rocky mountains that allows a wagon to be able to transverse that. consequently, all the trails come through casper, wyoming. explorers, basically you see the outline of the state of wyoming. this square basically shows south pass, whether you're going to the great salt lake, whether oregongoing to the territory for free land or

whether you're going to gold.rnia for this represents some of the early explorers. explorer inwn wyoming is none other than jim bridger. traveled butt well he did a great amount of documentation in his diary. the first white man, we believe, to have discovered the great salt lake. diaries that the mormons would later follow to the great salt lake. bridger tompare jim another very famous explorer, john c. fremont, when you compare his travels with some of explorers, you can see how some were very well traveled to certainst stuck areas but they're all important to the story of the trails west why people came west and these diaries that will be followed basically become the road maps for all of these way.s down the

at the oregon trail gallery, you'll experience crossing the river.lat the river,t crossed in between fort laramie and red here at casper. we would travel on to independence rock trying to get by thependence rock fourth of july, hence the name, independence rock. and again, we must travel through south pass with those wagons in order to successful transverse the rocky mountains. oregon trail starts in about 1840 with just a few travelers 100,000 travelers have been on the oregon trail. imagine youronly father coming home and saying, west toided we're going oregon, please go upstairs, pack provisions that you can take in one suitcase. is an interactive exhibit that our children will use.

they have to decide what they're andg to take on the trail what they will leave behind. not everything fits so they have a decision as to what will fit in the trunk and what will not fit and what they'll behind.leave dad would say, tell all of your friends, all of your relatives goodbye, we are leaving at sunup in the morning and we will not be back. theml probably never see again and oh, by the way, the trail is 2,000 miles long and we'll be walking the whole distance. we've now moved on to the mormon gallery. the tells the story of mormon migration who left in a illinois, and traveled to the great salt lake. this is an example of a rhode an accuratech was measurement of the distance traveled by rotation of the wheel. prior to the mormon invention of

a smalle islander, child would be assigned to walk axt to the wheel with handkerchief tied next to the wheel and they would have to the revolutions as they watched the wheel make one revolutions and that was no the journey toin the great salt lake, this wagon have made 371,160 revolutions so the rhode a much welcome invention. a large portion of the mormon population is living in navu, basicallyand they're labeled criminals and told to get out of town overnight migration in ae short amount of time. the mormon trail basically throughn 1846 and on up the 18 70's until salt lake city becomes the great mormon city that it is today. and they're basically following the journal diaries and the maps

created by jim bridger. will stop along the way several places thinking that the ideal place just east of casper here. camp andblished a thought that that was going to be where they would end up but waterouldn't find enough and then continued on to the great salt lake. a great many of the mormons could not afford a wagon and a team. consequently, the church to travel tormons their new promised land which church salt lake and the auld loan a hand cart to family and then when the family got to the salt lake and got paytablished, they would back the church for the hand cart which would then be used to theher others coming down trail. this wagon cart had to be pulled particular speed in order to make 15 miles a day. too slow, you would run out of groceries and perish

because there's no grocery stores along the trail. you had to pick up the pace so got into the yellow. this steady walking pace you could make 15 miles a day which to crucial to you getting where you needed to be before the winter storms. if you went too fast, you would simply die of exhaustion. the meager rations that you are not replace the expending andu're you will die of exhaustion on the trail. chronologically we have now moved to the california trails. california trails, of course, the gold rushy of to california. the now, the newspapers exaggerated the story of gold at sutter's creek, showing pictures this, where you could pick up a five-pound rock of in yourld, put it pocket and live happily ever

after. those stories existed but they were rare. majority of the miners who went to california in fact died broke. the peopleories were that mined the miners, selling them picks and shovels and wheelbarrows and clothing and supplies which were very expensive at the time. there were also stories of scams where you could get to california in a real hurry using things as air balloon air ships and wind wagons which you could buy a ticket to get to california and show up at the appointed time to catch the air ship or wind wag they did not exist and you'd be holding a worthless ticket. the course of the travels down the trail, a lot of times your animals, if you were traveling on the trail, your animals would wear out and you would lighten the load. would throw heavy things out like anvils and stoves and extra

simply lighten the load and spare the animals this wagonof pulling loaded down. we've now moved on to the pony express trail. to the pony express delivering mail, which we'll talk about in a moment, there stage lines operated by the pony express companies -- wells majors andussell waddle. the wagon that you see is called it's basicallynd pulled by multiple teams over the same trail day after day in a lot of dust kicked up. that dust would roll into the wagon. were large leather curtains above each of the to keep the dust out but if you chose to roll the curtain out youkeep the dust would raise the temperature in the coach by 20 degrees. the coach would be occupied by nine occupants. it seems rather small but the average man of the time period 5'6" and weighed 120

pound. the average woman of the time 5'4" and weighs about 90 pounds, hence, there would be enough room. last seat actually folds up in the door so when you pull the door shut, the seat out of the door giving the ninth passenger his seat. you could only imagine the you might be smoking awith, a man big cigar, a woman wearing too much perfume, children throwing coach, all those sights and smells as you bust the prairie with a great amount of dust rolling into the windows on a hot day. is the other portion of the pony express trail. main purpose of the trail was the delivery of mail from to joseph, missouri, sacramento, california. we oftentimes get the wrong television and movies that a rider rode the entire distance which is not true. you see on the map there are lots of little stops and starts.

approximately 25 home stations and 165 swing stations. a riderstation is where would simply change his tired horse anda fresh gallop on to the next swing he would reach a home station where he would spend the evening and the next morning he would catch the mail coming from the opposite direction and he would head back to his other home station. one rider would do this live in the next one would do this loop and so on. that is how mail was delivered in 10 days. the pony express lasted only a little over a year. that was due to economic reasons . it was expensive to operate the pony express. it was a dangerous job. this was an advertisement from a newspaper. the pony express riders wanted.

must be expert riders willing to risk death the daily. wage is $25 a week, which is a large sum of money for the time period. but of course, risking death daily comes with this type of occupation. the telegraph comes across the prairie and often times the is stretchede across the sagebrush because there were very few trees even to this day across much of the expanse of the planes. with the telegraph laid out across the prairie, annals would run through it. native americans learned the talking wireman more white people coming down the prairie. they would use it for ornamented accessories or jewelry, etc..

the story of the trails ends with the continental railroad bringing in mass populations very rapidly through the western united states. it also begins a new chapter with the modern highway that we now have today. i hope visitors take away from the interpretive center here in appreciation of the people that settled the american west. they were not large people. they were tough people with a mindset that there was a better life ahead of them. they set out with a determination. with a strong determination, you can accomplish many things. >> next on our american history tour, the colorado river. there were floods on the river and the development of u.s. arizona. the colorado river is the

life lead of the southwest. it starts off in the mountains in colorado and it drains all of the ice melts throughout the mountains and it is the source of the water for the entire southwest. it travels 1200 miles down through here and ends up at the mexican border. it is basically the sourcally tf water for every community in the southwest and for our food stuff all over the country. there are both good and bad things about the colorado river. acres ofthings were lush wetlands that met the ocean. the bad things were the river was totally uncontrollable. it had floods that would reach about three feet above your head right now. feet above your head right

now. a huge river. destroyed a number of times. herendian tribes have been and have lived off the river. what happened was there was a struggle for control of this crossing. bandits came in and took control of it. the us military came in and kick them out. the reaction was that this was their land and their taking it from them. with these narrow droppings here behind us, this was a safe place to cross the river when the river was wild.

here ineople crossed 1849 with the golden rush. , it was almost like a city on the mississippi river. there were steamboats. the trains are bringing in immigrants. different people speaking different languages. it was a real urban center. it was a wild and rollicking river town. it was created by teddy roosevelt in 1903 to try to deal with these issues of the flooding of the colorado river. out of that, they have built a phenomenal architecture of dams and canals. project was one of the

first dam projects on the colorado river. the bureau proclamation started a project to create the first dam which was the laguna dam. ended up providing water for about 50,000 acres of farmland. one of the most interesting crossingf the yuma story is when they brought the water down the california side, they had to figure how to get it to arizona. with all the floods going on, they decided to go under the river. they created the yuma siphon. it was about an engineering marvel. they built it over three years. it goes about 80 feet under the river. -- two footot t concrete walls.

it was an amazing engineering accomplishment in this day. the most amazing part of the yuma siphon project was they had to ring in diverse. bring in divers. they were going underneath the .iver building this it was like a subway tunnel. those workersn worked on the subway system in new york. credible impact on yuma. canyonver dam and glen -- glen canyon was built in the 1960's. those are large storage dams that regulate the flow of the entire colorado river. what has really impacted since dams --a number of

think of them like straws into the river. you think the river is unlimited . parker dam gets built in 1941. it is water through an aqueduct. later arizona wants it's part. serveles to phoenix to those people. dam -- the imperial pulled water out into the all-american canal, the largest canal in the world. you could see it from space. imperial water to the valley -- the coachella valley acres.ves 500,000

it irrigates 500,000 acres of crop land in the imperial valley and coachella valley. see oft amazing thing to the imperial dam are all of these canals pulling water out and what remains of the river. now all of the states are starting to say, who will get what. says the upper basin states which is like wyoming and colorado get 7.5 million acres. the lower basin states which is arizona and california and willa, -- by the way, we give 1.5 million acres. they calculated it based on the

30 wettest years in our history. in other words, we have come to understand without over allocating the river which is the real problem for the future of the colorado river. oneof the challenges was no spoke to the river itself. no one spoke to the environment itself. realization dawning that the health of the river is important for the operation of the river. we are where we are. we have developed an economy and a culture dependent upon this river into its use. we better be pretty humble about its use. we should not assume it is going to be here for us forever.

>> tonight look at the people, >> tonights look at the people's places of expansion. travel across the country highlighting each city we visit. you can see more on our website. c-span.org. click on the c-span cities tour. >> photographer lauren irving fremont's hn expetition through oregon and nevada. he photographed all 32 of fremonts' camps. he takes us to two of the camp sites.

sometimes the writing in the journal is so precise. i ended up trying to capture that on the film. there are trying to make nice landscape shots and tried to incorporate things in the images that are described in the journal. expeditionlate may of 1843, went westward near kansas city. went along what is now known as the oregon trail. it comes up into the organ territory and settles in this part of the country.

john fremont was a young man who grew up in south carolina. he went to school. he also married the daughter of -- benton helped his son-in-law get this job of being on these expeditions. he came through here. he was 30 years old. .t was a sizable expedition he had a lot of responsibility. 25 men, including thomas the primary-- reason of mapping this trail and providing the detail it takes to

get out here on a wagon was to populate oregon and washington so that the population would be such that we would not have a military conflict with the british. they were pretty well encamped cup of me. it was designed by the british to have this territory. congress is very interested in claiming this part of the northwest. in november of eight keynote three -- 1803, he accomplished his work. tomakes the decision not stay there, not to stay there for the winter. he makes the decision to move south.