there's 200 cash prizes 0,000.ng $10 >> next, the debate between the candidates for governor for kansas. sam brownback and paul davis took to the stage for their first debate at the kansas state fair. the political report has the race listed as a toss-up while

real clear politics average of recent polling has mr. davis with the lead.

>> i'm paul davis who likes proven solutions. >> jerry special driver demonstrate the direction governor brownback has been taking our state. can you tell us to education,

low job growth and downgrades in one year and now he says he is going to hit the accelerator on his agenda. kansas governor's race. before i introduce the introduce, i want to the people who are going to be asking questions here today. our media panel, and they are down front, includes nick schwinn, managing editor of the hays daily news, mike schwenk he, reporter high for -- reporter-anchor, and alex zygmunt. todd.mekeeper is

in keeping with the statewide election, we have statewide reporters here today. our candidates will each have 90 seconds for an opening statement and 90 seconds for a closing statement. they will each have one minute to respond to questions. the candidate who answers first will also have 30 seconds a rebuttal time. this is important, please be courteous in responding to each of the candidates and please refrain from responding until they have completed their statements. there moderator does have the authority to add time to a candidate if i feel that his response has been interrupted by audience members. governor sam brownback has served four years -- this part

of it is not timed. he served as the 46th governor of kansas. he served as secretary of agriculture, served as one term representing kansas in the u.s. house of representatives, and two full terms in the u.s. senate. his running mate is jeff collier. governor sam brownback. his democratic challenger in this election -- [applause] is state representative paul davis. representative davis has spent the last 11 years in the kansas

house of representatives, since 2008. he has served as minority leader in the house. his running mate is jill docking. governor brownback will have the first opening statement. >> the second. >> my apologies. representative davis will have the first. >> welcome to the state fair. i am paul davis, an independent thinker. i am also the son of two teachers and the parent of a soon-to-be kindergarten or. that is why public education is personal to me. that is why i have been a 12 year champion for public schools. that is why i will make restoring those cuts my top priority as governor.

that is why i am supported by over 100 current and former republican elected officials. the governor's experiment just isn't working. we are trailing our surrounding states in the rest of the country and virtually every economic growth indicator is it has plunged our state deep into debt. jeopardizing our schools and future. a we can do better. we have a clear choice about whether we are going to restore the cuts to our public schools and get the state moving again or hit the accelerator on a failed economic experiment. the governor is going to try to convince you i am somebody different than who i am. he is going to convince you his record is something different than what it is.

the reality is i am a moderate commonsense leader who values our public schools and will make them my very top priority as governor. >> good morning, kansas. good morning kansas state fair. good to have you here. i have been coming to these for over 40 years and i love the great kansas get together. everything you have heard from representative davis is wrong, i am sorry to say. there are more kansans working now than ever in the history of the state. we put more money into education than ever in the history of the state. number three is a big one, i support our rural schools. my opponent, unfortunately, does not share my support for rural schools.

his top education advisor said this, consolidation is inevitable. the sooner they realize that the better off they will be. i say no forest consolidation of rural schools. no forced consolidation of rural schools. thank you for being here at the kansas state fair. this is a great get together and we will have a lively debate. >> i want to remind our audience again as we get into this debate please be courteous. it i will add time if i feel you

are interrupting the candidates. after he has answered you can do whatever you want to within reason. on to our questions, the first question will come from alex. >> let's talk education funding. in 2008, 2009, kansas spent $140 pupil.0 per according to the legislative research department. do you feel like we are spending enough money per student and what would you do to ensure our interest to set up? >> governor brownback will answer first. >> thank you for the question. we have put a record amount of money into education and we are going to continue to spend and

spend aggressively for education in the state of kansas. we put 52% of our budget and it. those are numbers. i want to talk people. my daughter is a fifth-grade teacher and she loves teaching. it is the teachers that do so much for us in making our state a great place. my oldest son is going into education. i started out in education. we are putting record amounts of money in education. we do that because we love education. we see education as a transformative thing. i was elected state president. that is what i am going to do. we value the system that produces such great people. >> governor brownback is going to try hard to rewrite his

record on education but he simply has never made education a priority. he voted against head start repeatedly. he voted against afterschool programs, voted against new teachers. then he implemented the largest single cut to public school funding in state history and called it a victory. he has cut early childhood education. we need a governor who is going to make the cuts governor brownback maître schools the very top priority and that is what i will do as governor. >> 30 seconds of rebuttal time. >> i wish paul davis would have voted for some of the money we put into education.

mark parkinson said this. when he was looking for reelection in 2010 and said i'm not going to be governor again because i am the architect of the largest budget cut in the history of the state of kansas and paul davis voted for that. he talks a good game and then he votes the other way. >> next question. from nick, managing editor of the daily news. it will go to representative davis first. >> it is estimated we have 380,000 residents without coverage. hospitals continue to treat these individuals but local communities eventually pay the price.

wouldentative davis, what you do with this component of the affordable care act? governor brownback, do you have any future plans? >> i will tell you what i will do, i have spent a lot of time listening to hospital administrators, listening to a nursing home administrators, listening to people who own home health agencies, and listening to those over 150 thousand kansans that can get coverage from this. our rural hospitals desperately need this. i have had too many conversations with rural hospital administrators who say they may have to close their doors if this does not happen. we can inject $3 billion into our state economy. we can create lots of jobs. i am not going to play politics with this. i am going to follow what other republican governors are going to do. chris christie in new jersey. jan brewer in arizona. that's what we should do.

>> let me be put clear, were -- what representative davis wants is to implement obamacare. he was for an early innovator grant in the state of kansas. obamacare will cost us $1 billion to implement. people ahead of the list created by the former administration and medicare. by the way, on the rural hospitals, obamacare took money from medicare, which puts it into medicaid, which doesn't go as much. and he supports obamacare. that is taking money directly from our rural hospitals. he should not have supported obamacare in the first place. that is not the place to do it. we have expanded medicaid. we have added 80,000 people to

medicaid since i have been governor and we have taken people off the waiting list because of dr. colliers' work. we have expanded and have a better medicaid system than obamacare. >> representative davis, 30-second rebuttal time. >> i don't think you are listening to our hospitals. this is an issue of survival for them. on top of your program, which has been a disaster for them, they have claim after claim after claim denied. they are not getting paid. it is limited care or no care in some circumstances. i am going to follow those republican governors, your friends, who say they are going to do the right thing with this. chris christie, jan brewer, john

kasich, they have put the people of their state before politics and that is exact the what i am going to do. [applause] >> i am reminded again we are in the young injury lawyers arena. let's hope we do not have any injured lawyers before this is over today. a gorgeous day here. our next question will come from michael, kwch tv in wichita. and it will go to governor brownback first. >> thank you for having me. i want to know who is taking credit for the weather today. >> i have been praying a lot. >> here is my question.

a budget shortfall by july of 2000 -- 2016. there'll be a $238 million shortfall. how do you address that if you cut -- if not will you raise taxes? >> thanks for the question. when i came into office the prior administration that paul davis had voted for and helped with left us $876 and a projected deficit of $1.5 billion over the next 16 to 18 months. we ended this fiscal year with $434 million cash on hand. we are growing and hitting our budget numbers. we are going to put those budgets together and be in great shape. my opponent has said the sky is

falling. the sky fell when he ran the place. our budget is in a catastrophe. was in as system bankruptcy zone and now it isn't. we are going to continue to perform and perform well in having a good solid budget and investing in k-12 education record amounts of money likely -- like we have been. >> governor brownback is sticking his head in the sand on this issue. your $876 number has been disproved over and over again. you need to stop saying that. there were over $230 million in the bank when you took office. we are in a situation of debt.

down the road because of the governor's economic experiment. $1.3 billion over the next five years. the qualityardizing of education for an entire generation of kansas kids, including my daughter. i am not going to stand for it. we have to do something about it. >> paul davis has proposed to do something about it. it is to raise income taxes. on the lowest-income people in a state of kansas. he is proposing to raise 17% income tax on people making $15,000. why do people making $15,000 even pay income taxes in the first place? we should allow them to earn money they can keep and they can use in their own life. here is a fundamental difference. he thinks the government spends your money better than you do.

i think you spend your money better than the government. >> our next question comes from alex with the radio news staff. >> throughout the downturn in the economy, agriculture is able to withstand a lot of economic woes. we have had announcements at the deer plant in cotton bill and other workers are going to be laid off is this early signs of struggle for the industry in the state? >> this will go to representative davis first. >> we certainly hope not. our agricultural economy is vital to our state. some very key things if we are going to be able to help agriculture grow. we have to deal with this water problem we have. i will give the governor a little bit of credit.

he has heightened the discussion about this. the problem is we have not made it a priority. everyone knows we are going to have to devote some resources to this. the governor has defunded our water plan every year he has been in office. we cannot address this issue and the other critical issues we have not only for kansas agriculture but for the whole state when our state is in $1.3 billion of debt. that is where the governor's economic spirit has taken us. -- economic experiment has taken us. >> i have some concerns for the agriculture industry and a lot of it comes from the obama administration, which my opponent supports. the obama administration wants to regulate water in every ditch in the state of kansas. they want to rule the ditch, i

say ditch the rule. he is for this. i am against this. the obama administration wants to regulate chickens in the state of kansas. so that one third of the state, you cannot farm. they want to regulate all of the range. i want you to be able to have a home and a business on the range. it is opposed to rural america and fighting our way of life and opportunities. fastest growing america. kansas dairy industry, fastest-growing in america. kansas wind production has doubled since i have been in office. agriculture will continue to grow under a second brownback administration. i know agriculture. it is going to do well in the brownback administration.

>> you mentioned the wind industry, your support from the wind industry, which seems to be changing here lately. we are going to help rural kansas and have to have a renewable portfolio standard that is going to show the wind industry we are open for business. a few weeks ago you said you supported it and now you did not. what is your position? are you going to support it? >> i am going to support a lot more than you do. you voted against it because it was associated with the power plant. >> will you veto a bill -- this is a critical issue for our state. i will repeal -- i will stand up to the wind industry in our state. we need it for our economy.

>> we need to get on with our questions. i am certainly glad i wore my control briefs this morning. nobody said this was going to be a dull debate. ok? our next question will go to governor brownback first. >> touching on the water issue, even as a plan is being put together there is no force to push irrigators to cut down their usage. voluntary efforts would be great but they fly in the face of economics. would either of you advocate

doing what is truly necessary and mandate dramatic reductions? >> thank you for your question. without water we have no future. that is why put so much time and effort into the issues of water in the state. that is why i repealed the use it or lose it water doctrine. we implemented a strategy that i think is the right way forward. it may be in the weeds for you but what it is a group of agriculture farmers, users, city people, that are using water and binding themselves together. to reduce the amount of water they use. have the first one in northwest kansas. they bound themselves together over a five-year period to reduce the amount of water used by six inches. that will amount to a period of time that will expand the aquifer. this is what i have been working on since i was in law school. while i was agriculture secretary. we have a 50-year water fishing being developed.

i have credibility of moving this topic forward. we have to address our reservoirs. we will have water supplies in eastern kansas as well. this is the most critical long-term issue that our state has. this is most critical long-term issue that our state has. it is a complex issue. there are a lot of people who have very different opinions on this, but i will tell you that everybody who is a stakeholder in this debate will agree on one thing, it is going to take some resources to address this issue and we have to address this issue because it is vital to our state's economy. the governor attacked me for not having credibility. credibility means you would fund the current water plan we have ut he has defunded it every year he has been in office to

subsidize his economic experiment that is failing our state, led to three grading downgrades. it means more school cuts down road the road. [applause] >> i don't know where you learned your math but it must be one of those new things so many people do not agree with because your math is all wrong. all wrong! our unemployment rate is 4.9%. we have a record number of kansans working. we have the fastest-growing economy in the region. more new businesses created in the history of the state. i don't know where he gets his math. by the way on water issues, who do you think he would appoint? somebody that shut down holcombe before? somebody that didn't agree with you? >> all right.

next question. comes from michael in wichita. >> schwanke. did you say snoozey? am i that boring? this one goes to mr. davis. correct? i have a couple of directed questions. you criticize your opponent on education funding issues. you said funding for public schools will be cut if he is elected again. my question to you, what is your special plan for education and how will you pay for it? are you willing to raise taxes for education? >> he has been talking about math problems. i haven't made any billion dollar mistakes.

we cannot grow as a state if we're going to be encumbered by debt that is going to lead to more school cuts. governor brownback has shown us before he will cut schools. he will hav what we have got to do is end this experiment that isn't working. i proposed a plan to do exactly that. freeze tax rates where they are on january 1. let's get our fiscal house in order and let's make restoring our schools the very top priority. >> governor? >> i will continue to support kansas. i will continue to put funds in it and more funds in it. let's go through this cut. of the cut was the obama stimulus money that paul davis agreed putting in the budget in 2010. i came into office. they left me a $500 million

projected hole. wu put $100 more in education that first year. these are budgets and situations that he left a fiscal train wreck in the state of kansas and he is a democratic leader. he is the nancy pelosi of kansas. >> all right. 30 seconds. >> governor, you can blame everybody you want. the fact remains you made the single largest cut to school funding. all you have to do is talk to these teachers out here. i talked to teachers the other day and there are over 30 kids in her classroom because of the cuts you made to public schools. we need a governor who is a

12-year champion of public schools and that's what i will be and what i have been as governor. >> for the benefit of our radio audience -- and this is airing live. and i know it is going to be streamed on our website and running on many radio stations throughout our state. i want to tell our audience there is no seating room left in this arena. we have many people on the sides. i have been to this fair for many years and i've never seen this many people in here. \[applause] all right. our next question will come from alex dingman and it will go to governor brownback first. >> with fewer jobs offering pensions, some systems are

facing underfunding and more than 7 million workers without access to their retirement accounts. what will you do to help kansans save so they can have a secure financial future? >> one of the things they have already done is fix the capers mess that i inherited. the capers system was in the bankruptcy zone. there are about a quarter million kansans on capers. it was in the bankruptcy zone with about a $10 billion unfunded obligation. it was second to least funded in america. we put more funds in it. we put more funds in capers, changed the system for next year. people have a cash balance system. on a number of different rating agencies we are rated middle of the pack. we're out of the bankruptcy zone

on capers. it is an amazing accomplishment that we were able to do on a bipartisan basis and move that system forward so that we can save. it is a critical one and it has been a fabulous accomplishment moving that system on forward to solvency. >> i am very proud to have jill docking who has devoted 30 years as a financial advisor and she has been a strong advocate on this issue for many, many years and you can bet that she will be involved in it in our administration. what we can do to help people save is get our economy above the national average, not below the national average. look at where we are at now. the governor's own council of economic advisors several months ago documented we are trailing the states in our region in virtually every economic indicator there is. our credit rating has been downgraded three times. we're 45 nth the nation in new

business creation. in 2013 more businesses closed up shop than opened shot. it is because we have an economic experiment that isn't working. let's return to a proven kansas model of growing our economy. that is how we are going to help kansas. >> when he talks about a kansas model, he is talking about raising your taxes. that is what he is talking about. and the initial tax increase goes on people making $15,000 a year. again, i don't know why they are paying income taxes in the first place. why would you be taxing someone that is making that much income? she is expanding her business. we have had record numbers of new business filings.

i don't know if you can't find that office or what but that is what's happening in the state of kansas. >> the next question i believe -- >> rebuttal time? >> next question will come from -- next question will come from nick schwien. >> what are your thoughts and your stance on the proposed power plant being located in kansas? >> this will go to representative davis first. >> you know, when this issue came for the legislature a number of years ago i represented my district on this issue. my district had strong feelings about it and i didn't support the plan. the fact of the matter is the

permit has been issued and it is out of the hands of elected officials at this time. there is nothing governor brownback or i can do more. but what we do need to do is continue to grow the energy sector of our economy. the way we can do that is support the wind industry and show the wind industry that we are open for business. if we're going to that, we have got to have a governor that will stand up for our renewable portfolio standards. governor brownback said he would phase out and then he said i didn't really mean that and then he said i will phase it out. we need certainty. they need a governor who is going to stand behind them because this is critical to the future of our economy.

>> all right, governor. those were your people. i like the guy with the bongos by the way. >> i support the power plant, a clean coal plant. i supported the proposal it went together with, which is a fire plant proposal that came together in front of the legislature. that was the deal that was brokered and my opponent was so extreme, so liberal, so much the nancy pelosi of kansas that he vote against a proven deal to get this forward. i supported the renewable portfolio, the tax credit federally. i supported those. that is what has doubled wind energy in this state. i will stand second to nobody. on support for wind, it had doubled in this state while i have been governor. it is a great resource we have.

my dad was raised on a farm using wind energy. we can do it. we can do it moving forward and we will. >> that is a lot of good rhetoric on wind. but the other day, you said you would support a phase out. that is going to hurt the economy of kansas. 400 great jobs. i want more of them. will you commit to veto a repeal of the renewable portfolio standards? >> next question will come from michael schwanke of wichita. did i get it right, michael? michael schwanke of wichita. did i get it right, michael? >> you got it right. this one goes to governor brownback. n recent weeks you appointed a

kansas city supreme court justice who had less than a year of experience on the bench. can you answer your critics, including your opponent. >> i will be happy to answer that question. they see most qualified, talented person on the kansas supreme court today. if you'll let me say what he is, he graduated third this his class at k.u. he worked for a circuit court judge. he worked for one of the most respected jurors in the state of kansas. he was an elected prosecutor in jefferson county. he has had a great private practice. he was general counsel for me. there was nobody that was even close to his qualifications.

this is an incredible -- one of the people on the panel called him a legal prodigy, saying this guy is an amazing qualified candidate. and he is. he could end up on the federal court of appeals or further in the future. he is an amazing qualified brilliant man. >> the governor had a choice between three people. one had 24 years experience as a judge, the other had 23 years experience as a judge. a woman. and he had less than one year. i think it is pretty clear he did not choose experience here. that is consistent with what he wants to do with the selection process. he wants to take away the transparency. he wants the governor to have more power so we can inject

more politics into our judicial selection process. we have a process that has served this state very well and e need to keep that process. [applause] >> paul davis is a liberal. he would appoint a liberal on the supreme court. and there is another thing. the u.s. supreme court just overturned a kansas decision 9- 0 on a death penalty. i put a former prosecutor on the kansas supreme court. he's not going to vote for an opinion that gets overturned 9-0 on a death penalty case. that is an important thing to have. somebody are some breadth of experience. -- with some breadth of

experience. >> next question will come from alex dingman and it will be directed initially to representative davis. >> a lot of news this year that the p.a. systems in this nation are broken. do you feel this is true true? are they getting the treatment that they require and deserve? >> i have a little bit of special perspective because my wife is a psychologist and she spent her entire career helping homeless veterans. there are some serious problems in the v.a. system. you don't want to get her started on it because boy, will she give you an earful about it. there are a lot of things that we can do, our kansas hospitals and health-care providers, to help veterans across the state. many are located in places where they

don't have access to v.a. they should get access to health care v.a., governor sponsored health care that they have entitled that they deserve and sacrificed for and i8d like to work with the federal government to make that possible to do something very good for eterans. >> we need to do a lot better for our veterans and i think they are being let down by the v.a. i have said that then and i say it now. unfortunately what you're seeing is a waiting system where people have to queue up and you have to wait because there is not enough care available. they are making wait. we need to take care of our veterans better. of this is also a cautionary tale. this is what you are going to get under obamacare.

or you are going to get a rationing system but the rationing is going to be out of waiting. they don't say you are going to be denied any care. they say you have to wait to get care. that side the problem with the v.a. system. they are making people que up and wait. that is not something we should do to our veterans. it is century not what we should do for health care for all americans. unfortunately my opponent supports obama care and its expansion and implementation. this administration isn't even implementing obamacare because it doesn't work. >> you know, i can understand why someone who has spent 16 years has been fixated on washington, d.c.. there has been only one candidate on the stage who has an open presidential campaign committee. i can assure you that it is not me. governor, if you want to make this selection about who it is that i supported for president, you might take a look at your

last selection for president. he is under indictment now in texas. [applause] >> before we get to our next question -- and by the way, thanks to both of you for keeping it live accomplishment >> you're welcome. >> before get to our next question, are your runningmates here? >> yes. >> governor brownback? > dr. jeff collier. >> representative davis? >> jill docking. >> i might also add their families are here today. if you don't mind, just standing up. there we go. we have time for maybe two more

questions here. et's go to nick schwien. >> thank you. many people believe that people in high power have little regard for their region and the state. what are your plans to ease the minds of the people of western kansas? >> i am going to do what i have been doing. that's be there a lot. i've been in all 105 counties as governor. i've been in all 105 counties many times. i don't know if my opponent has been in 105 counties at all. i go there often and work on their issues like water and preserving our schools and issues like environment and education and on being able to grow the economy and i'm going to involve a number of them in our administration. he head of kdhe in kansas.

you can't get much better than that or further west than that. pat does a fabulous job and understands the heart and soul. my runningmate grew up in hayes, america. there is only one of those. we're going to involve people in our administration from all parts of our state and from the rural parts of the state to bring in that attitude and our rural opportunity zones has been a great opportunity. zero income taxes if you move into one of those counties and helping with $15,000 on student loans through our rural opportunity zones that our dministration started. >> we are a rural state and this fair is a great celebration of rural kansas. when i spent time in rural

kansas, i have some great supporters, members of the legislature that are supporting my candidacy for governor. we can offer all the incentives we want. some of them are very, very important. i supported your rural opportunity zones, but folks are not going to continue to live in rural kansas if we do not have great public schools. and that is why we have got to estore cuts to our public schools. earlier you mentioned consolidation. your school finance plan would have been a disaster for rural kansas. the superintendent of schools said this was a worst case scenario for his school district. that is one of the reasons he didn't go anywhere in the legislature. i will be a governor who will stand up for rural schools. no forced consolidation. [applause]

>> paul davis is the democrat leader in the house. there are now no elected democrats in the state house est of 81 highway. people are important. tyler worked for paul davis. a long time person to work for him. he wrote this. there are no two counties less interested in one another then western kansas. it is important to you have around you and how they associate and what they say. >> we have time for one more question and as moderator there will be no rebuttal time. we are going to limit your response to 45 seconds so we can get the closing statements in. the next question comes from

michael schwanke. >> wichita voters in decide in november on the one cent sales tax. part of it will go to support a jobs fund. do you support the use of taxpayer money for job creation? citizensing to let the wichita to make that determination. i will tell you this. the folks in wichita know their economy has been lagging and they are trying very to do something about it. i'm going to work with them to help grow the economy in wichita. it has some of the highest unemployment in the state there. we need a governor who is going to roll up their sleeves and be a partner with communities and use proven solutions to grow their economy. that's what i'll do. >> i agree with representative davis. i think that is a local decision for them.

at the state level, we do use state money to recruit businesses in. that's how we got mars in the state oover kansas. it is a sweet deal. glad we got them here. also by creating a better tax environment we're growing jobs three times faster on the kansas side of kansas city than on the missouri side. we can make kansas city a kansas city. if we have a better environment on our side. a great education system. a better tax system. good highways and that's what we're going to continue to do in my administration. we are going to closing statements. governor brownback will have his closing statement first. >> thank you. thank you for making this

entertaining. the kansas to state fair. it is one of those great kansas get togethers. i love seeing the people and the products of the land. the goodhearted people of kansas are the best people in the world. we want to make this the best state in america to raise a family and grow a small business. we are going to keep pushing that dream. we're going to keep pushing that model of kansas. this bright shining star moving forward. we had to dig out of lot of problems in our past. we had a lot of things that haven't worked well in our past and we're on the right track now moving our state forward. this is what we want the great kansas comeback to be about. it is about your kids and

grandkids moving home. not to texas. we want them here. we want them so we don't have to fly somewhere to get our kids. we want them here and they are coming back and people are moving back into the state of kansas and seeing all the things that are happening here. and it is happening here and people are investing their lives because they have got a great future. this is a fabulous place. there is no place better. no place better to watch a sunset. no place better to have a family. no place better to live than kansas. and we're going to make it even better. thank you for being here. god bless you. god bless kansas. [applause] in the interest of time, we must get a closing statement in from representative paul davis. >> our state simply is not

headed in the right direction. the governor's experiment is not working and will not work. ands damaging our schools hurting our economy, jeopardizing our future. we have a clear choice in this election. i have been a champion for our public schools. i have been a 15 year member of my chamber of commerce, i know how to make a payroll. supported by am more than 100 current and former republican elected officials. so if you believe that the governor should not turn the state into an ideological laboratory, i ask for your support. if you believe that we do not model or bluete state model but a kansas model to grow our economy, i ask for your support. and if you believe we need a true champion in the governor's office for our public schools, i ask for your support. if you believe that we need a governor who will work with

people from all parties to solve the issues facing our state, i ask for your support. and if you believe that we need a governor who will always put the people of kansas before his own personal political agenda, i ask for your support. i am paul davis. i'm a lifelong kansan. i'm a moderate, an independent thinker, a commonsense leader, and we can restore kansas and get back on the right track. thank you very much. [applause] >> the house rules committee considers rules to keep the government funded. washington journal is live at 7:00.

the impact of public policy on higher education. the senate arms services committee examines the plan to combat the terrorist group isis. and martingel dempsey testifies starting at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span three. it you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. according to the world health organization, the ebola out reich is in five countries. today dr. kent bradley testifies in a joint senate hearing on the out break or it live coverage starts at 2:30 p.m. eastern on c-span three. the student cam video competition is underway.

it is open to all middle and high school students to create a documentary on the theme the three branches in you. there are 200 cash prizes for students and teachers totaling $100,000. for a list of rules, go to student cam.org. the rules for debate was approved. train the syrian opposition to fight isis. it members met to discuss the legislation during a meeting on monday night. if this is 90 minutes. legislation during a meeting on monday night. it is 90 minutes.

>> will this committee come to order, and thank you very much. there considering continuing appropriation resolution for 2015. the cr will provide for funding for the federal government 2014, atecember 11, the current rate of $1.02 thelion, as agreed to in ryan budget. will also give the member from kentucky the time he needs to fund the government for the entire fiscal year 2015. number rogers has, for a of years, had an open communication with the senate and has agreed that this timing will allow him the necessary

avenues to get that done. chairman rogers, i want to thank you for your leadership and the hard work that you continue to do. and you do too, that the american people are looking for leaders. peoplee not looking for who lead from behind, but rather who have ideas and can see over the horizon and get things done. i know that you are obviously ranking member. she is always welcome. her content and delivery is welcome. i know that she spends the hours it is necessary to make sure she is up to snuff on the things that are going on. so i want to thank you, anita, for being here once again this evening. additionally, the committee will hear testimony on the amendment to authorize the secretary of defense to train, equip, and vet syrian opposition. this amendment seeks to help

protect the united states and our allies from a threat posed by a terrorist group called isil, -- isil. it also strengthens congressional oversight over the plans in the region. both of you are here, and as always, anything you have disabled be entered into the record. before we start, i defer to the ranking member of the rules committee. >> thank you mr. chairman, i do have a brief statement to give. when james madison declared that congress' power over the first, pers,"e federalist pa he warned of his honorable stagnation -- dishonorable stagnation. i fear we have achieved this.

without brinkmanship, fiscal class, -- we have had brinkmanship, fiscal cliffs, and shutdowns. this may ever crisis in the short-term, but it is a clear demonstration that the house majority has failed to do their most basic job. preoccupieden so with their obsessions of suing the president, investigating the nonexistent scandal in benghazi, and holding more than 50 votes repeal the affordable care act, that they have not been the routine act of congress, funding the government. procrastinatethey on finding long-term solutions, they would propose another closed rule. just last week, they marked their 75th » the most closed rules a single congress, which makes this the diamond jubilee. every time they do so, they

stifle debate. half of the country's representatives have been silenced by the house majority. even though democrats received over a million more votes than the republicans in the 2012 election for the house, we have a republican majority. districts have been so gerrymandered that a representative democracy has been skewed beyond recognition. while i am pleased with some provisions in the cr, i cannot stress enough need for long-term appropriations. instead of investing in research and development, fixing our crumbling infrastructure, hoping -- buildingail high-speed rail, the majority lurches from stopgap to stop gap. the strategy has caught up with us now, and we cannot possibly run the united states government in three month increments. funding to all federal agencies, programs, and services until december 11 of

this year. it provides funding at the current annual rate. regarding the ukraine, i'm pleased to see the cr continues funding flexibility with the agencyepartment, and the for international development, to respond to the ongoing crisis in the ukraine. the congress and the united states must continue to support the ukrainian people in their fight for a free and democratic country. and we are pleased to welcome the president of ukraine tour chamber later this week. it also contains an amendment singronting the ri threat of the islamic state. i am disappointed in the process that led to this resolution, but i am pleased that the house will have a debate on at least one portion of the plan. we arm debate if or how rebel forces in syria, as well

as other tactics in the effort. i have deep reservations about the ever-louder drumbeat towards war. the wars in iraq and ofhanistan claimed the lives many of our men and women in uniform, and grievously wounded 50,450. we have done our part. the true cost of war is not just in dollars, but in lives taken and destroyed. i urge my colleagues to seriously consider this. resolution,ntinuing we can avoid short-term crisis. but if we continue to postpone long-term appropriations, the nation's's economy will be at risk. and i yield. >> i would like to thank you for your comments and tell you that tonight we will do exactly the same things that she is really in favor of. aboutof all, we will talk

how we will fund the government, we will lead by doing that. secondly, we will have a separate panel where we will talk about any action that would be necessary to protect the united states of america through military means. it will give her a chance to look at what i believe is the most leading-edge authority on the united states military in the united states congress. for it as weed look over the horizon. with that said, chairman, welcome. as always, that button needs to be pushed. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and ranking member, and members. we are pleased to present hj continuinghort-term resolution to keep the government open and operating after the end of the fiscal year of september 30. i join the ranking member in a

crs.ng -- abhoring -- goal since job taking this job to try get the handleack on track and the bills the old-fashioned way, all 12 of them. is reason we are here because the senate refuse to act on our bills. we passed 11 of the 12 bills through committee, we took them to the floor and passed to seven of those bills on the floor and send them to the senate for action. and they have never been brought on the floor for discussion or a vote. instead, it just sits there. that is the reason we have to pass a cr. the house is doing its work, the senate refuses. a crr. chairman, i abhor as much as anyone, but it is the only thing open to us since the senate refuse to act.

this critical measure will prevent the government shutdown. it funds the government programs and services at the current fiscal year rate of $1.012 trillion through december 11 of this year. this is in line with the ryan murray budget agreement that was approved last year. mycommittee saw to draft -- committee sought to draft a bill that is restrained, is free of writers, and does not seek to change existing federal policies. it does make a few limited adjustments to prevent catastrophic or a resid -- reversible damage to government or to address global crises that have arisen in the last two months. these include provisions that activitiesical dod

that provide rewards for capturing terrorists. it increases the funding at the department of veterans affairs. intorovides investigation waitlist allegations. fundingt boosts the into ebola, as requested by the white house. border security needs by providing funding and flexibility within customs and border protection and immigration and customs enforcement. five, a continues a surge in funding for state department programs to counter regional aggression towards ukraine and other former soviet union countries. the bill also extends the authority of the internet tax freedom act through the duration of the cr, and the export import bank through june 30

of 2015. they are funded to the discretionary funding of the legislation. not temporary measure does reflect the overall changing budgetary needs of the nation, the same way regular appropriations legislation does. and that is why i am irritated that the senate will not help us do our job. clearly, it would be my preference to have enacted actual line-by-line appropriation bills. we have made great strides in the house towards completing that vital work, in fact, we passed 11 of the 12 bills through committee. and seven of them through the house before the august work. . unfortunately, the senate has yet to approve or even take up a single one of these bills.

as this deadline closes in, we have to make -- take necessary steps to ensure that the federal government does not step down -- shut down and provide us the time to do full appropriations legislation. that means we have to pass the continuing resolution in short order, so we can send it to the senate for their swift approval as well. it is my hope that in the future , we will no longer need to resort to these lurching, short-term funding bills that punt on tough budget decisions and heightened uncertainty in our government and our economy. now, mr. chairman, we must pass the bill as soon as possible to avoid causing any additional harm to this nation. ,his is our best path forward and i urge my colleagues to support it on the floor. chairman, to seek

an appropriate rule on this bill , providing for its timely consideration and passage. we have just a couple of weeks until the end of the fiscal year , and passage of this legislation is of the utmost importance. understanding, as the chairman has indicated, that the chairman of the house armed services committee will seek an amendment to the bill to address the president's request for authority to traded quips syrian rebels to fight against isil. this is a critical issue. and i believe it is in our national security interests for congress to act quickly to provide this authority. the ruling support that allows us amendment to be considered by the full house. before yielding back, i would like to mention also that we have asked for an amendment on three small technical changes.

collectionted to the of recreation fees by the department of the interior and the forest service. this is that their request. this change will ensure that park passage will continue to be available during the term of the cr. another change corrects a the late program. finally, sections on ebola will resolve issues brought up by the administration. want to thank the chairman and all of the members of the committee. this is the second hardest working committee in the house. [laughter] your admire you for perseverance and your hard work, and i thank you for listening to me. >> thank you very much, we appreciate you taking time, that was very clear and i appreciate it very much. we are delighted that you are

that and i think you know your representation, not only her district but also your party, is much appreciated. >> i thank you mr. chairman, you always provide a very warm welcome. it is a pleasure to be here with so many friends on the committee. thank you for inviting me to testify with my very good friend sherman rogers -- chairman rogers. well a was my hope that we could have create -- completed action on all 12 bills by the end of the fiscal year, i understand the desire to quickly pass the crm prevent another disastrous government shutdown. this continuing resolution gives the senate and house appropriations committees roughly three months to reach agreement on each of the discretionary bills and the important programs they fund. of great importance will be the

funding levels in the labor, health, and human services, and education bill. unfortunately it has the dubious distinction of being the only one not even brought to the full committee for markup, denying members on both sides of the aisle the opportunity to offer amendments and that they full and open debate about these critical programs. today, the ranking member and all the democratic members introduced our version of the bill that we hope will help clarify our priorities for the process in the coming months. the cr contains much-needed funding to address urgent crises , including the spread of ebola, ensuring critical work continues to manufacture treatment therapies as well as work on a vaccine. proposalthe majority's resorts to one of the worst legislative mechanisms to reduce goring, on a cross the board

cut. this shirks one of the most important decisions of the committee, making it difficult decisions on the program levels. were still, it is misleading to the public and creates an illusion that program levels remain at last year's level when they are lower. in addition, the majority did not originally include the administration's request for a narrow and specific title x authorization to work in partnership with our allies to diminish the dangers isil poses to the region. the president spoke correct way to the american people last week, members have had many briefings on this growing threat. while the political train in the region is complicated and ever evolving, there is no silver bullet, and value to act now is not an option. we all expect the president to use the power of the greatest

military in the world and work with an international coalition on an aggressive, targeted at degradingd and destroying isil. that is why i request that the rule incorporate technical changes to the language on ebola funding, and recreation fees. mr. chairman, obviously no appropriator ever wants a cr. but none of us wants to repeat last year's shut down. it is my sincere that if the cr is enacted, we can use the coming months wisely to craft an agreement on all 12 bills by december 11. there is absolutely no reason to punt our responsibility's into the new year and the new congress. thank you mr. chairman. >> i have a quick question, you are for to the technical language being included in the bill.

is that included? are you saying that it is not included or are you saying you support it being included? >> it is included. >> that was my point, i did not understand. >> that i make a mistake? >> there are three amendments that we are talking about here for these items. their pending before the committee. -- they are pending before the committee. >> are you talking about when we referenced ebola? technical changes to the language so that we can talk about ebola appropriately. that was what i was referring to, those three. >> you want those specifically enumerated in the rule to have time to discuss those, is that what you're saying? >> mr. chairman, there is one amendment. >> i think we are both in agreement.

amendment that we have offered the has three small technical changes. >> are you in agreement with that? >> yes, those are the three areas. >> at that you are saying you are not in agreement. that.w know, i support >> mr. rogers has made statements to us that he is trying to work with you on these things. you won. [laughter] >> we work very well together. if it were up to chairman agers, we would be presenting big optimist today. >> mr. chairman, thank you for bringing this to us. i want to tell you that you can hear harsh words about the worked all of you have done in

appropriations, but i am proud of the work you have done. the simplicity of moving forward, the honesty of trying to work with the senate, working together on a bipartisan basis. and i think you have done a great job. as those harsh words come your off, i hope you will do that together, i think you're doing a great job. chairman, andmr. i thank you for being here. chairman of the better thing to be doing would be to be passing all of our appropriations bills individually. that you would feel that way to a not to present in on the vista was actually do each individual bill -- an omn ibus and actually do each individual bill.

is always a pleasure to have them here, we appreciate your kind comments mr. chairman about our work. we hope you will spread the word. [laughter] >> thank you very much. >> mr. chairman, i will that will let my statement speak for itself, i do not have any questions. >> thank you very much. the sherman yields the mic stand. >> the questions dealing with the amendment on the military action -- >> that would be a second panel. >> then i would hold off. is there any other member that has a request for time? >> i always have to say something good about my chairman and my ranking member when they , because i am exceptionally proud of the way that they work together and conducted a committee.

i do want to disagree with some of my friends on the other side about the cause. nobody on the appropriations committee wants to be here. but when the other body does not pass a single bill, would you not have a chance to do anything else. actually dysfunction affects what goes on on our side. out,airman rogers points they had 11 of the 12 members to withull committee, i agree the ranking committee about what she wants to do on the remaining bill. i think we would do better if the senate was just working. after talking with her leadership, why are we going to waste your time on appropriations bills when the senate is not passing any appropriations bills. fortunately, we have both the chairman and the ranking member here. being ableample of

to work together which they did last year and present us one. i very much hope we can do that in november and december. show that and the rest of congress to let them do their jobs, they can get it done. the failure to get it done is resting solely on the senate side. unless they can allow the bill to pass on the floor, they will impact our work adversely. it is hard to get these people to get a bill to the floor under an open role and cast dozens of votes when they know there is not going to be a senate bill that is passed as well.

>> as an example of what you just said about the senate, i am told there is one senator who is serving his first term. almost through with his first term. he has not voted a single amendment in his career. almost six years in the senate. what does that tell you? i will yield to my friend. >> i want to be sure you understood -- i understood what you said. only seven went to the floor? >> that is correct. >> it doesn't count if it is not voted on the floor.

>> at some point you stop bringing bills to the floor because you know there will not be any senate bill sobering in it down there does not make sense. there is only so much time on the floor. senate shows-- the repeatedly that it will not its their own bill, becomes very difficult to work with them. >> i do not think we can make any point here. it was a congress that did not get anything done. we didn't have time to pass it which was our job. >> i am reclaiming my time again. it takes two to tango and we don't have a dance partner in the democratic senate and that is the reality. >> thank you. you finally got around to saying it. the democratic senate -- my colleagues agree with me when we

refer to the senate that some of their very arcane rules that allow for the minority in the senate to receive a lot of consideration allows a certain measure cannot pass. that is not only the fault -- maybe not putting it on the floor by the democratic majority but also a number of things including incredibly the fact that we are -- we have a hold up on ambassadorial appointments, judicial appointments. and theay the senate fact that they contribute to all of the dysfunction, i am talking about democrats and the republicans. i am curious as to what my colleague -- >> once again, my friend and i are from a different perspective. i would agree. their rules are an impediment to getting things done. that is their choice. we have nothing to say about

that. but, i also think their attitude is too. we take a lot of bills to the floor with unlimited open amendments knowing they will be difficult. the senate has not chosen to do that. i do not think there has been an effort to keep them from the floor. i minority effort. the minorities invited them to the floor. you are going to end up just like we are in our body -- my friends have to cast difficult votes. i have to cast them, we all do. anybody can bring any amendment down there and score a political point. we have been willing to risk that. our friends have not. that is the root. >> i think from at least my perspective, i made a speech over the weekend where i said most of the senators when they are awake in the morning and

they look in the mirror, they are looking at the president of the united states. >> my friend has been here longer than me and very wise. who am i to dispute an observation like that? [laughter] i yield back. >> the gentleman from georgia. >> i don't know how many more times this year week can see this esteemed team. when we talk about things not getting done, i didn't want to miss an opportunity to brag about what you guys have done. sony freshman came up here in 2010, i think even though there was unified control of the house only tote in that year, appropriation bills passed the house. only two. there has never been a time under the leadership of the gentleman of kentucky where we have done worse. every single year we have been here, we have done better . look at the two of you there and talking about -- if

only the two of you were in control, what could have we done? i'm looking back and looking at what you guys put together. 320 one votes you all put on the board -- that is not partisan. that is of the will of the house with 321 votes. offensive bill -- but we're talking about today is 340 votes you put on the board for not a republican product or democratic part but a house part -- but a house product. 402 votes you all put on the floor back in may. >> who actually carried that bill? [laughter] >> i would like to give due respect to the cardinal for doing that work. thevotes back in may in senate has given no consideration nor provided an alternative. votes on the00 an16

board. only one no vote in the entire u.s. house of representatives and you did that back in april. yet, our servicemen and veterans have been operating in a peri od of uncertainty because they can get no activity at all on the senate side. i am impressed. i do not want to be inappropriater. -- an appropriator. you all got it done. that, not just here in the committee, but throughout the body and across the nation folks realize this is not political nonsense, this is serious legislating and if we had a partner we would be succeeding. >> we have an opening in the committee for a press secretary. are you available? [laughter] >> i yield back.

the words the gentleman has spoken is what you deserve from the credit and hard work you have done. you're the most hard-working committee. thank you very much. i am going to stand up and be hard workers. dr. burgess. >> thank you. i will add my voice to what has been said. we talk a lot about the power of the purse. it is very difficult to exercise that power if we do not have our regular appropriations bill. when you made statements in the beginning of the year to return to regular order, i rejoiced. i thought that was welcome. that would give it a house to work its will on every bill. we have certainly done that. i only regret we didn't have a

chance to do every single one. i regret the senate did not take up a single one. mr. chairman, let me ask you a little bit on section 136. dealing with the department of health and human services. $58 am reading correctly, million from the public health and services emergency fund and an additional $30 million from the cdc global health fund, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> is this money that is being repurposed from within existing moneys or are these new dollars that are coming to the ebola fight? >> these are new dollars for the ebola effort, but it is offset. >> offset from?

>> from other accounts. >> mr. chairman, i want to offer the observation -- there was very deep within the recesses of the affordable care act something called prevention fund or the prevention of public health fund. it is basically a slush fund all goes to fund manner of things like pet sensation,smoking all things that may be good endeavors, but is there ever a place for prevention fund to be used it is this fight against ebola. this is one of the more frightening things i have ever seen as far as the public health outbreak. -- >> that is a $1 billion fund.

we allocate those funds in the regular bill. the $1 million fund from the department of health and human services? >> yes. >> i just point out to my friend on the appropriations committee that there is money very deep within the affordable care act that is money simply for the secretary to use a lever she sees fit. the prevention and public health fund. this is a self replenishing fund -- $2 billion every year. >> [indiscernible] this would be the appropriate use for a public health and prevention fund when we're staring down an unprecedented epidemic in western africa that could with modern transportation end up in our backyard. >> if the gentleman would like,

we can talk after the session with staff to help all of us understand what it is you are asking about. unless she wants to respond. wei was just going to say considered have these discussions, but as i understand bill is part of the allocating money to is a very good parts. you may think one is better than the other. we can have further discussions about it. as long as you turn the microphone over to me, i just wanted to say a word. are you complete? >> i will yield back. >> the gentleman will reserve his time. i appreciate that. >> i was just going to thank all my good friends on the side of the aisle for all of the compliments. after it december 11

is enacted hopefully this week, we cannot punt our responsibilities of the next year and we can complete our work and not be here for christmas eve. we know we can do this by december 11. i look forward to presenting all of the bills to the house and making sure we have all the rules in order. thank you for all of your complements. it is a pleasure to work with my chair. >> same here. >> i will offer that december is a lovely time to be in the nations capital. yield back my time. questionsre any other for this distinguished panel? a want to thank both of you for taking the time to be here and to provide a not only the information of your report, but also continuing to work

together. that is a part that the american and i appreciate a lot. >> let me thank you and your staff and the committee members for this hearing. a want to thank all of you for your nice complements -- i want to thank all of you for all your complements. >> we appreciate it. i think the bottom line is, mr. chairman, when you come up here you bring us a product that is well vetted that we can continue to work through. we have a lot of things on our plate but thank you for taking the time to be here. i know it is a little late but we appreciate it. collects thank you -- >> thank you. >> we would like to welcome the mac thornberry, vice

chairman of the house of armed services. he is from clarington, texas and a regular visitor not only to our committee, but also a wise content. mr. thornberry, i want to thank you for being here today. the substance of your discussion amendment.ccain secretary ofes the defense in coordination with the secretary of state the train, equip and that elements of the syrian opposition. that is why you are here. you have already heard there has been some ideas that this committee has about this process and we are delighted you are here. the gentleman is recognized. >> thank you. i appreciate the opportunity to

be with you this evening to discuss the proposed amendment to the congressional -- the continuing resolution. the chairman, because of his time change, had a family commitment that was difficult to break so he asked me to be here. he has a short opening statement that i might briefly read and be delighted to respond to any questions. thank you for meeting to consider my amendment to house joint resolution 124, the continuing appropriation resolution for 2015. isil is a clear and present threat. in this time of crisis, the president has asked for the authority to train and equip syrians to attack isil. themendment would provide

president with this authority. this authority is necessary because none of the existing department of defense authorities fit the commitments for the president to train and equip nongovernment entities fighting in non-us-led operations. the presidents requested not specify the amount of funding that would be required and contained few oversight requirements. therefore, my amendment would strengthen the congressional oversight by requiring detailed reports, including progress reports, on the plan, the vetting process, and the procedures for monitoring unauthorized use of provided training and equipment. it would require the president report on how this authority fits within a larger regional strategy. this amendment does not authorize additional funds. however, it would allow the department of defense to submit request to congress should the president require funds. it permit the secretary of defense to accept foreign

contributions. nothing in this bill would constitute a specific statutory authorization for the introduction of the united states armed forces into hostilities. there may be a time when we may need to have that debate but this is not it. my amendment is narrowly focused on training and equipping syrian fighters to counter isil. this language drafted in collaboration with the chairs of the national security committee. the language for this authority has been reviewed by the department of defense. let me emphasize this training and equip authority is a necessary part but it is only one part of what should be a larger strategy. it must be part of a larger effort in syria, iraq and across the region. let us remember it will be the men and women in uniform that will be conducting this training. we continue to ask more and more of our military yet their

funding continues to be cut. this is not sustainable and must be addressed. thank you for the opportunity to testify this evening. i respectfully request it be rolled into order. -- ruled in order. >> thank you very much. the question i have is simply to ensure that i have the same idea that i believe you will. i had a pre-meeting with several members of the rules committee. we had a discussion about the amendment. i think it is important that all members have a chance to not only hear what the chairman said, but also the discussions that take place among large members and a small number of members. it is my understanding that this authorization -- and this cr.dment deals with the the president asked for this approval in the cr>

. it is through december 11 -- is that your understanding? >> yes. the women also offers if the defense act is enacted earlier with a more permanent authority that will obviously supersede. earlier, is enacted that would be the length of this particular authorization. >> that is my same understanding. thank you very much. is there any republican member that has a question for the gentleman? any member of the minority that has a question? >> i just wanted to be absolutely sure. via peripheral event at section which is very thorough -- would we be actually certain this does not arise armed forces into

hostilities? >> yes, ma'am. it specifically has a provision. 6t is subsection i on page that says nothing in this section shall be construed to constitute a specific authorization for the introduction of the united states armed forces into hostilities or into situations where hostilities are clearly indicated by the circumstances. >> i have read that and very pleased to see that because it would be harder to vote. thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you for being here. generally, when we refer to a unit being appropriately vetted, we are not referencing whether they are members of extremist group but whether they have committed human rights abuses or not. can you tell me is the training and arming of these forces subject to the leahy law?

>> it would be my assumption that it would be subject to all existing federal laws. guilty of aho is human rights violation would not be able to be trained or to be armed or equipped? >> i would not be qualified tonight to give you the exact characterization of the leahy law and what those criteria are. that while to say you have the other federal laws, at a minimum, the vetting would include in this circumstance whether or not these individuals or groups had these affiliations with terrorists, the assad regime, or affiliated with iran. that is why the language says at a minimum, the appropriate vetting includes these things which may not be president and other federal laws. >> i appreciate that.

there are individuals who may be guilty of human rights abuses, who may want to see isil destroyed or maybe with us. i am just trying to figure out who are -- whether or not it is an absolute disqualification for anybody who is guilty of the , whetherhts violation there is an ability anyone like that would be trained or equipped. that is all i am trying to get. i get we don't want anybody who is associated with iran or al qaeda, but there are instances when people love committed human rights violation to say they like us. i don't think it is appropriate for us to be arming and equipping them. >> again, we were not trying to be comprehensive in the language of this amendment. they just said that is the minimum.

amendment,six of the it says nothing should be construed to constitute a specific statutory authorization for the introduction of u.s. armed forces into hostilities or into situations where hostilities are clearly indicated by the circumstances. for those who might not be aware, that language comes from the war powers resolution. -- i don'tquestion know if you can answer this -- do you anticipate the house taking up an authorization regarding u.s. military operations in iraq and syria when congress returns in november? is the leadership of the committee or the house believe that that is an appropriate action for congress to take? >> i certainly cannot speak for the house leadership or the leadership of the house foreign affairs committee which is the committee with the jurisdiction

for authorizations of this sort. our job on armed services will see from a military standpoint the national security interest of the united states are being protected. i understand there are a number of members who of opinions on that. fact that wete the are going to have the opportunity to speak on this" yes o and vote. i think it is really difficult for people to be able to make judgments without knowing what we are going to authorize alternately -- ultimately and what we are not. when people say, we already have boots on the ground -- well over 1000 troops that i know of. i don't know what the latest count is. they're doing more than just

protecting personnel of the embassy. we have americans that our flying these planes, that are bombing iraq and syria, but we are not authorizing this. the bombing of syria will happen without a role in that. i'm trying to understand whether the committee or the foreign affairs committee -- is anybody here committing to a vote when we come back from recess? on a -- whether or not we will approve the military operations that some people are contemplating now body authorization or not? is -- the would make 1.i would make i -- the one point i would make is the president did not ask for that, he asked for this particular authority.

he came in last thursday and said he needed it right now. we are moving this on annexed the dated timeframe and yet we did not want to try to jam something through last week. that is the reason why we are off to this week. this is what the president asked for for the strategy. that is what we have before you. >> i appreciate that but in the end of july, the vote 3 70-40, we all voted if there is going to be sustained military operations in iraq, we should vote whether to authorize it or not. we recessed and we saw the and clearly wee have sustained combat operations in iraq and possibly syria. we are much deeper into this now than we were when we had that vote. i appreciate the fact the president has formally asked congress for authorization but

he didn't really have to. that is our constitutional responsibility. he notifies us of what he is doing, it is up to us whether we want to play a role. my hope is the vote we had taken would have meant that we were not going -- concur with what you are saying. the president has notified us in regards to attacking isil in iraq. he did not utilize a umf. he did it under war powers, a notification to congress. i think that needs to be a discussion we need to have because there was reference today in the media about attacking syria with air power. i think we should have some way in on all this. i do not think that most of us agree.

iraqare talking about which does not cover this because isil it is killing al qaeda. they are not an associate, they are attacking it. i agree with you a read need to havea discussion in regards to where this goes as it relates to the war powers act because i think we have a constitutional responsibility to be part of that. i am happy to see the leadership is allowing the six hours of debate on this particular issue. conferencingere saying we needed to have a separate vote and debate on this. members had an opportunity to bring forward their ideas in regards to where we are going here. the armed services, i worry that we are on a

slippery slope. 300 and somewith troops sent to iraq and now i think we will be close to 1600 troops. the more troops on the ground, they are not wearing ballet shoes, they're wearing boots. they are at risk every time you put one of our guys into an unstable situation. i hope that we do have that debate. like mr. thornberry was saying, that is not what we're here for tonight. the president wanted this in the cr. i think we are accommodating him with that. he can move forward with the strategy while some of us may agree or not. i appreciate that. what i understand, the administration believes they do have the authority to do all this other stuff based on afghanistan and iraq. not with regard to what we are

talking about today on the training and equipping of these syrian soldiers. he bring into war powers act and notification of congress as a relates the bombing of isil it he was actually using the aumf. he would not do that. >> maybe i misunderstood the administration. i believe they do have the authority to do the bombing in iraq and syria based on the previous -- i think that is their position. they believe they have the authority to do that. they do not believe they have the authority to get this please we are talking about today. correct they do not believe they have the authority to train and equip. leasterstanding is at

some parts of the administration have decided the 2001 aumf, 2002, and the article to powers of the commander-in-chief are justifications for taking military action. personally, i am very sympathetic with the position you lay out. i think it is important for congress to exercise its constitutional responsibilities. as i mentioned, as far as this expedited cr to try to get it done for the training and equipping, that is what this amendment is about. >> thank you very much. i want to associate myself with what you have to say what my good friend before that had to say. i have actually raised this issue. i do believe we should have a straight a vote on authorization. with all due respect to the administration of either party will always claim it has the authority to do whatever it decides it wants to do. that is not a partisan issue.

this is an issue of constitutional propriety and legislative-executive balance of power. i would very much -- i do not read the authorization of 2001 and 2002 that was passed about a very different place in a very enemy and time largely with members who are not in his body today as being something that is an appropriate vehicle to launch into another country. i think you will find you will have a lot of people on our side of the aisle that took the amendment that you offered very seriously. i think that was the appropriate thing to do. that overwhelming bipartisan support. what is even more troublesome is syria to me. i look forward to working with my friends. i sympathize with my friends. they are trying to to respond to the commander-in-chief's request

and a time of crisis and i think we have tried to do it in the way limited circumscribed they can possibly do so they can leave these kinds of issues rusted discuss. i am with my friend from massachusetts. i would rather do that sooner than later. i look forward to working with my friend to make sure it comes before us. at thebe we can relook 2001 and 2002 and see if they can be repealed. we can be moving in a much more decided way. >> i think some members in your leadership do not want it repealed. this is the only opportunity we have -- i think i would feel a lot better about the process if we had a commitment from the speaker that when we come back, we will have a vote. i have no idea how long we will be back.

of thequires 15 days session to ripen. >> just for purposes of information, the speaker told us that when he met with the president and the other leadership, he advised the president and the collective leadership and he thought the best thing to do was a new authorization -- he thought that was best for the institution, country, for the president in terms of being able to build why partisan support. i don't think this is something that the administration or the speaker was willing to do. there are people on both sides that do not want to bring it and i think that is a shame because i think we feel the responsibility to talk about it. >> i think you are probably right. i am in the house of representatives. the person who controls the schedule and decided what is

scheduled is the speaker and the majority leader. i think of all of us were feeling the same thing that authorizatione an and wider military operations in i think syria -- we a we have a firm commitment there will be a vote -- we have -- this operation has progressed a long way from the end of july to how we came back. we are going to be gone until after the election. i assume this will continue to expand. we will be gone again until the new session. it is a lot more difficult to debate when weer are all into something and we are dealing with a situation that is more congregated. -- complicated. crther the amendment nor the specifically funds for training

and equipping of syrian armed opposition forces? presidento -- the said he wanted $500 million to train and equip 5000 soldiers. where do you see these funds coming from? twohere are basically funding provisions. one is allowing reprogramming from the oco funds and allowing foreign donations. those would be the two funding sources. the normal reprogramming processes would have to be followed. >> i thank you for indulging my question. i really do think, this is not a partisan or political statement, i think our constituents on both parties are looking at how we are handling this. i think people are are really nervous we might just, you know, duck this one. that would be a shame. i hope we do not.

thank you. >> further discussion? the gentleman from florida. do you seek time? >> i don't want to put mr. thornberry on the spot. i am not trying to play any -- i echo the sentiments of my colleague and good friend from massachusetts. i want to be on record saying that when much of this began, i wrote to the speaker of the house and to the president requesting that when we're were away that we be reconvened for purposes of discussing and approving or disapproving of authorization. the president did say in his wednesday night remarks that he would welcome an authorization

from congress. certainly, that is not asking for it. i heard mr. thorne very and clear and i believe all of us request thatat the came from the president were parts of what we are seeing here. i do have a concern about one word that is new to me. i think i know what it means but in the initial section at line four is the word sustainment that follows to provide assistance, training, supplies and sustainment to appropriately vetted anelements. what is that about? i just don't understand.

a i think that would be fairly broad category of supplies. for example, ammunition once they are on the field, intelligence, tactical intelligence, information. the kinds of things that a force out in the field would need to keep going. >> all right. inwonder if my colleague thing about this -- those of us that are old enough and willing to admit it, remember that a portion of getting us in wars has been training. and vietnam would be the classic example of how it all began with somebody that was going there to train. am not clear when it isn't that we have trained

sufficiently to enter into combat. i am not even going to talk about green on blue -- we have seen enough of that in afghanistan to understand. periodically, we will see when they turn around and kill american soldiers. it is going to be virtually in asible in my view to be training position and not recognize there are other countries that have allowed and agreed that some of the training can take place in their locales. they too are not immune from attack. at some point, if something goes wrong and a significant number of our soldiers get killed, then we are fast moving down the slippery slope. another thing that i consider when you are talking about all of this and i know we are not

here about the abstracts. the president has said he has the authority to do that but he that theand us equipment breaks while people fly. the best example will be over the last weekend. we see it all the time in ourning accidents when youngsters get thrown out of airplanes. let that happen once to an american airman who gets his head cut off by isil and we are right back down the slippery slope and a great harry -- in a great hurry. one of the things you said which interest me greatly. itle we are well into iraq, would've been my third visit when i was there -- a second visit. i was with the chairman of the rules committee.

thoughtack with the that it didn't seem right that we were building schools and hospitals and water treatment because i had spent a considerable amount of time trying to get a water treatment plant in the western portion of long beach county. when i saw this water treatment plant with all the copper wire stripped out, everything else identicalcause the amount of money that i was requesting over the course of years. it troubled me so i came back and drafted legislation that requested that the iraqi who by the time i had my third visit with them speaker pelosi, they had a $38 billion surplus. i thought it wouldn't be unworthy to ask them not for

loss of life, not for warmer material, but just for instruction alone to reimburse us. i drafted the data legislation and i was told i could not -- i drafted the legislation and i was told i could not ask for and governments. now i hear the flipside. i hear you say that we can accept from this particular measure money for equipping and training from foreign governments. what i want to know is how that process -- how is that process going to work? is that the defense department that will receive the funds? is that a part of the overall process of training? i am just not clear as to how

that works. portion of the amendment to allow us to receive donations from other countries, donations was part of the most complex of this to get right, to make sure it complies with u.s. law. see some references there to various other laws. with the appropriations committee helping draft of that language to make sure that he it getsdited -- credited but it did not carry a cost, according to the congressional budget office. all of the transactions that come -- >> you and i have worked together on a lot of matters. i have great respect for you.

sayyou satisfied when you it is complex and difficult to get right or are you satisfied that nothing is perfect? that we are as near right as we can get under the circumstances? >> i do, but in addition to that, you have the ability of the president to ask for reprogramming so that if something happens and the expected funds do not come in, contributions do not come in from other countries and the president wants to, he can reprogram funds. i think the two together make sure the funding will be there. at least us know that i feel -- i don't speak for any other democrats and any other republicans -- i feel that when identify, and i thought it would be easy until i

went to turkey and spoke, i thought it would be easy to warm the rebels and that we should at that time. we did not. i remember being with senator cardin. we were talking with rebels in turkey. there were six of them. it was 8:00 in the morning and all six of them were from a different rebel. you know what i am saying? literallye complexities beyond ordinary. with all the firefighters and people compromised. when will we know that we have 5000 people that it and how long will it take to frame them -- train them?

is the $500 million the president requesting sufficient in order to get to that endpoint? >> i do not know. the president says he does not believe he needed additional funds. so, there are no additional funds, although there is the programming. i think you are exactly right. this is an enormously complex situation with so many actors on all different sides. specificn, this was authority the president asked for and drafted this way. i think it meets that need. the only other thought i would have is the armed services committee has given tremendous attention to this issue of the in afghanistan that you mentioned. if you look at the number of incidents where we had green on blue incidents, it has gone down precipitously. united states government is much wiser about this vetting process

than it was before. this is a different and even more complex situation. i do think we are generally better at vetting now than we had been at the past. >> i agree with you. i have serious reservations. one final question. not havingat by us the debate that i believe we should have and that is the authorization of this matter, that what we are going to wind up with -- i don't know how we are defining this thing -- and sometimes i hear words counterterrorism and then i hear all sorts of things avoiding the use of the term war. we don't have boots on the ground.

occursd seem to me if it that any american soldier or any collective number of american soldiers are killed than this training operation -- my question is do they have the same rights as soldiers who die there is ahen declared war for their families and for everyone else? are the rights going to be the same? >> i understand. i would want to double check. the only point i make is we have trained and equipped security forces in like 40 different countries. we do do this all over the world. it is true something can happen in one of those situations.

combat all of the exact benefits attach, i do not know, but i will certainly ask our experts. yes, sir. absolutely. the only other thought is back to your question about the requires a progress report every 90 days, including how many people have been trained, what is happening to the equipment we gave them. that with the reprogramming authority gives us the best opportunity to have a pulse on how this is going and whether it is meeting the objectives. i know what happens with the requests for reports. thank you. >> is there anyone else that seeks time? >> i want to thank you. you have come up here and faced members of congress that have a lot of ideas. i would like to put into context

from a republican leadership perspective that we believe what we are trying to do is to satisfy the needs of the president with a growing threat that is aimed at our allies and the united states. it is up to the president of the and thisates ia administration, the state department to find more quickly and carefully that which they see and bring that to congress. i believe that is what attempting to be done. we also have our own problems. we are getting ready to take a break, a break that was naturally understood. we did not want to leave without allowing the president of the united states as commander-in-chief the latitude to effectively, operationally

understand the threat against the united states and against our allies and likewise to be able to make sure the president could pivot appropriately when congress is gone. you have notike, said anything that i consider to be wrong at all, but i would not like for anyone to think that moving agreement, i wink and a nod to the president because we recognize that we need to hear. that is what we have tried to do, but we also did not want to arm the president as he goes and talks to our allies and other nations around the world of engaging in this. process.ery careful i do not think that what we have done, nor should it be construed

, is this through the lifecycle about december 11. this member and i believe the leadership team of the republican party is looking at making sure that we provided the president what the president has asked for. ask back what the plan is in given the president the opportunity during this time between now and december 11 to do what needs to be done. can i come back and promise you that we will be asking for specifically what we are after? i do not know. what i would say as chairman recognize said, they they need to do in armed services bill. we have to agree with something. certainly, this would be on the table. the president would have some

limits because of the money alone. don't want you to walk out and say you didn't get answers. you are. short time frame, december 11, you know that. december 11. asking the president for a detailed plan but we are not trying to harm the president in any way. i appreciatean, the fact we are coming here to deal with this little piece. what i was referring to before was we are bombing. that bombing will expand. we have troops -- that are in harms way. we should have a role in that. that is going on as we speak. >> a year, at least.

>> i think congress ought to off the rise -- off the rise -- authorize. not to make this larger than us trying to work together and move forward. i am trying to ignore k acknowledge the request of the president. paste heard that in the and you have heard us genuinely egg knowledge that -- acknowledge that. i can give you what i perceive to be the circumstances surrounding that. the gentleman from florida. >> just one point that relates to the cr.

does this evaporate when the cr does? it is not necessarily true. mba comes back and goes to congress, if he comes back with something in it that we do be that doescould happen. i want to make sure that everybody knows that that is a problem for most of us if that comes back and away -- in a way that authorizes us not to have a debate on it. i hope we don't get put into that. we have to pass it. that notd say to you just duly noted because i have

the same thoughts and ideas. what i would say is we are trying to engage the administration with a thoughtful plan that will allow us to know what we agree or disagree with. i think we are trying to do the right thing here right now. just to say iion, think we are doing the best we can. further discussion. seeing none. a want to thank the young chairman of the armed services committee. i hope you will tell sally i said hi. >> thank you. >> this ends the hearing portion of j-124. >> mr. chairman, i move the , thettee for sj-124 continuing appropriations resolution. ehe role provides -- rul

provides controlled by the chair and ranking member of the committee on appropriations. it avoids all ports of order through short resolution. inprovides the amendment part a of the rules committee be enforced and shall be considered and adopted. and the short resolution shall be considered. the joint resolution is amendment. only the further amendment is sponsored by the representative beginn -- it shall be considered an separately debatable dividing control by the representative of california and the representative of washington. it provides one motion to recommit with or without

instruction. house resolution 567 with the clarifying that paragraphs f1 -f12 of clause 4 should be considered to be written rules adopted by the select committee of benghazi. >> you have now heard the motion from the gentlewoman from north carolina. further discussion on the amendment? -- about theart special select meeting on benghazi. staff tells me that what this means is that there is a provision exempting the benghazi select committee that are adopt written rules. we could construe the they do not want media to cover the meanings. -- the meetings.

>> thank you very much. rulest, there are no related to that at all and we are simply allowing them to have the rules that they would -- >> other committees do have rules for the meetings. for media access. for some reason, the benghazi select meeting is being exempted from that. >> nothing specific. >> it is specific. they don't have to -- the committee shall have a rule on media. >> get the exact words. get the exact words.

we are concerned about the open meetings law. provisions of paragraph 4, shall beause considered to be written rules and adopted by the select committee pursuant to such clause. that does not say they will not. it incorporates them into the select committee of the rules of the house. >> they are exempt. we don't understand why the select committee is given a special exemption. >> there was nothing previously stated. you are asking a good question and i am trying to give a good answer. we are going to enumerate that they have the rules of the house as it relates to media.

that tomorrow. >> if you want to talk about it further, we will be glad to. tonight. >> i will be very open to that. >> further discussion for amendment. the vote will be on the motion from the gentlewoman from north carolina. the german will be leading -- the german will be leading this for -- the gentleman will be leading this for republicans. we plan to have a 3:00 meeting

tomorrow for the rule on the energy and jobs package. we are through with our work for tonight. thank you to all of the members and staff. thank you three much. -- thank you very much. funding for the federal government through december 11. the house will debate and vote on an amendment to the measure to fund the training of some certain rebel groups to fight basis. -- isis. expected to be debated on the floor tuesday and wednesday. but coverage here on c-span. today, the senate armed

services committee examines president obama's plan to combat .he terrorist group isis defense secretary chuck hagel and joint chiefs chairman general martin dempsey testify starting at 9:30 a.m. eastern him alive on c-span3. you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. according to the world health organization, the ebola outbreak is in five countries. today, dr. can't brightly, one of the americans who survived ebola, testifies in a joint senate -- and frankly, one of the americans who survived ebola, testifies in the joint senate. the 2015 student can video competition is underway. open all middle and high school students to create a five to seven minute documentary on the

three branches and you, showing how a policy, law, or action by the executive legislative or judicial branch of the federal government has affected you or your community. 200 cash prices for students and teachers totaling one other thousand dollars. great list of rosen how to get started, go to studentcam.org. on c-span,ive washington journal is next. later at noon, the house starts legislative business with members expected to take up a short-term continuing resolution to keep the government funded through december 11. coming up and 45 minutes on "washington journal" a discussion on the president strategy to combat isis. first we hear from are presented of peter welch of vermont. then congressman doug collins of

georgia. we look at the impact public policy issues have on higher education. ray cross,s president of the university of wisconsin system. host: good morning, everyone. here are your morning headlines. he was opened in new phase in the fight against isis. usa today reporting bombing near baghdad yesterday. thefirst strike is part of expanded efforts to help the iraqis. same time, president obama will head to cap a, florida wednesday to assess the mission against isis. john kerry met with his counterparts from 26 countries. a broad coalition to fight the mint