at 4:00 today treasury set terry jack lew -- it's treasury secretary jack lew talks about climate change. shortly after that cbs news chief washington correspondent bob schieffer moderates a discussion on combating isis and other terrorist groups. now what are in those 38 pages. host: let's try the philadelphia her latest book on private military and security companies. our campaign 2014 coverage continues at 7:40 eastern with live coverage of tonight's pencil gate -- tonight's

pennsylvania governors debate. here is a look at that race. >> let's try the philadelphia debate. mr. fitzgerald, good morning. >> good morning, pedro, how are you? looks good. could you not only set up this debate but where the two candidates stand as far as this race is concerned? first debate tomorrow finds the incumbent, a really need to have something happen to reset this race. he has been the underdog almost from the beginning, which has been a huge surprise in a state that historically has reelected its incumbent governors overwhelmingly. it has been a staple race. wolfe is up by 17 percentage points.

there was a new poll out this .orning 52% among 31% of likely voters. half of the respondents who are voting for wolf say they were motivated by dissatisfaction with corbett. >> it is somewhat of a mystery but substantively it comes back to education. when he took over in 2011 after , because the were cutsan out there

to education funding from the state. the governor cut some state money and the stimulus wasn't there. and then he went ahead with some business tax cuts that his predecessor froze. schools laid off teachers and other workers and increased the property taxes. that started the negativity among the voters across the state and even among his own party. very conservative republicans don't feel he stood up for their issues. he had pushed through a voter id

law. courts abandoned the appeal and accepted the over rolling it was unconstitutional. >> was there any mention of expansion of medicare in the state? >> doesn't seem like he had much bounce for that. the dominant narrative was he was not expanding medicare and when he finally did, it is an innovative program that might well work. onhink most voters focused the fact that a year has gone by and we have missed $1 billion of federal funding

because there were negotiations between the administration and the sea. >> as far as tom wolfe, what is he casting himself -- what is the strategy? been to dotegy has no harm. he has limited public appearances. he was trying to avoid a mistake. his major policy pitches -- he wants to put a severance tax on natural gas production, which is booming in pennsylvania. the governor has declined to put

a tax on natural gas. >> that is tom fitzgerald who covers politics for the philadelphia inquirer. >> the cook political report racethose race -- says the leans democrat. two former members of congress are running for governor of arkansas. the one-hour debate was held in little rock studios. we are going to show you that in a moment but first look at the campaign ads both sides are airing. democrat is at saves the attacks on mike ross are not true. there never was a justice department at the k -- justice

department investigation. why is he attacking ross's family for building small but -- building a small town business into a success? to cover up the fact he got caught cheating on his taxes and the fact he is a easy lobbyist who has a record of putting millionaires before arkansas's middle class. this cover-up won't work. >> a choice for governor. cut collegeted to loans and he opposes mike ross his plan to expand pre-k. but mike ross says education must be a priority. a focus on career training and college opportunities. whatknow my kids will have it takes to get ahead. >> he has a record i can trust. >> have you seen this latest smear piece? hutchison found a mistake in his

taxes. many of us have made mistakes on taxes. that does not stop him. they hope it works for mike ross as well. arkansas knows better. it is a $16 billion industry and arkansas's largest. with 97% of our -- of our farms family owned our government must fight on their side. it only hurts our farmers. -- whetheris right it is right, wheat, or poultry, i want to keep business open for the world and arkansas. will hit thee ground running and never look back. >> tonight the candidates for governor square off.

two candidates with expensive political history. the attorney turned lawmaker, the small businessman who became a congressman. >> there are big differences between congressman hutchison -- we want opportunity. i want it to reflect our values. >> the debate begins now. election local headquarters, we present this live statewide presentation, the arkansas governors debate. and thanks for joining us tonight. live froming to you television and online tonight. what happens in the next 60 minutes could describe -- could decide who represents you.

-- will democrats say be democrat stay in the governors mansion with mike ross, or will it be a republican transition with hutchinson? election day is november 4. tonight's debate will look a little different. there will be no podiums and the time limits will be flexible. the goal is to get to the heart of major issues. join us on twitter and let us know who is making an impression or who isn't. twitter us at #argov. we will take you to our moderators to get things started. >> thank you very much. we are joined by the candidates or governor. thank you very much. also, capitol hill political reporter david. our goal for the next 60 minutes is to cut through the clutter, and get to the issues that matter the most for the next

governor of the state of arkansas. >> each candidate will be afforded two minutes for an opening statement. there was a coin toss and mr. ross won the toss. a short introduction, he is the democrat in this race. he is the governor and was in the congress at a time when voters seemed fed up with washington politics. your two-minute opening, what makes you different? >> well david, thank you very much. this is the first time that i have run for statewide office, so i would like to begin the night by sharing who i am and why i want to lead. i will start with family, which are very important. on my moms side, my grandpa had a third-grade education. he raised five children's -- children on the 100 acres of land. they did not have a lot financially.

they made sure they were in church every sunday, and they made sure that they received the kind of educational opportunities that he never had. on my daddy side, grandpa passed when i was about a year old. grandma first learned to drive her car and then got her ged and then went to nursing school. he she was a nurse at our county owned hospital well into her 70's. my parents were school teachers, and after a lifetime of teaching, my dad became a united methodist minister. he still pastors a church in him florida today. my family taught me the values of faith, family, hard work, and personal responsibility. i think those values have served me well over the last 35 years, and it will serve as my moral

compass as i do my best to hopefully lead to this state. my parents were school teachers. they taught me the importance of education. i said i want to be the education governor, because that is how we create more and better paying jobs. if you want to talk about employment opportunities or good jobs, a hunger, homelessness, poverty, crime, it all starts with education. we have to start sooner and finish stronger. we need more career opportunities for those who do not go to college. we need to continue to make college within reach for more young people. i am going to be the biggest economic ambassador the state has ever had, and i will work with both parties to get the job done. >> we will get too many of those issues this evening. we will introduce the republican, asa hutchinson. he served as a federal prosecutor and in congress, several appointments under

different presidents. most recently, we were in the debate last time you ran. what is different this time? >> i would like to say that those are good memories, but this is a new day in arkansas politics. i'm glad to join you tonight, and thank you for joining us for this debate. like mike ross, i am very proud of my history in arkansas and my parents as well. my parents -- we grew up on a farm. my parents were not rich. they were not poor. they were truly middle-class, and went to find her family was hard work. i understand hard work. it was community, it was faith, it was church. that is what bound us together. when you look at the work that we did, i started my first job in the shoe -- in the shoe shining. i worked in a factory when i was in high school.

all of these things just to try and get ahead a little bit in life and have some spending money. going to college, i actually cleaned up a gymnasium as a janitor. in law school, i was dating my sweetheart in memphis and i could not buy textbooks and put gas in the car, so i hitchhiked. our marriage has lasted 41 years. but i think about my parents, who were truly middle-class, and that brings me to today's debate, because the defining issue in the race for governor is who can best support the struggling middle class and give them more opportunity for spending money, more and better economic opportunity. i want to be the jobs governor, because i believe everything

hinges on a growing economy and better paying jobs. today you see the middle-class squeeze because the government takes more, and the government spends unwisely. i want to make sure that we can create jobs in arkansas. my plan is for computer science at every high school, career education, lowering the tax rate, and refining education. >> jobs candidate, education candidate, we have a lot to get to. >> arkansas's unemployment rate has peaked out at just around 8% three years ago, it currently sits at 6.3%. it is in line with the national average. the bureau of labor statistics shows there are fewer of them today than years ago. what can you do from the governor's office? >> a lot. obviously, to grow our economy, it is about the private sector. it is about individuals taking risk and making a difference. i have a specific plan that will work and produce jobs. one of the statistics today is that we were declining in arkansas technology jobs.

we just saw axiom create 150 jobs in austin because of the talent pool. that is why my plan for growing the economy is on target, it will work and produce jobs. we have to have a competitive tax rate, and my plan is to lower it starting with the middle-income. secondly, i want to have computer science in every high school. that is technology education that will give our young people better paying jobs, opportunities. and it will help our growing industries that need that talent that is declining. there are unfilled jobs in the future in that field. we also need to talk about career education. this is an economic growth plan. finally, let's reduce the power of regulations on a business and make sure we partner with them instead of trying to punish them. ok, mr. ross, your thoughts on

jobs. >> i have been involved in economic development all your life, and i can tell you you can have the best industrial side and infrastructure and interstate. at the end of the day, before an industry locates in your town, they will do a job market or labor survey. too many times, across the state, there is just not unavailable, educated, and trained workforce. when i say i want to be the education governor, that is how we create more and better paying jobs all across the state. that is why i feel very strongly about my pre-k plan. if you are a parent with a four euro than you want them any pre-k class, there should be a desk. regardless of your income and zip code. if you look at ninth graders,

20% do not graduate. we need to increase the college education rate. noon emphasis on science and technology and math. for those who do not go to college, we need a renewed focus on career tech -- i still call it vo-tech. we greater partnership between colleges, technical schools, and industry. so the young people can learn a trade and get a certification and get a good paying job. in doing so, it helps to ride the state with an educated and trained workforce. that is backed up by my plan for lower and fairer taxes and reduce government regulations. i will send a message loud and clear to america and the world, that arkansas is open for business. >> will put on that -- real quick on that. what about retaining the people that graduate from college? >> absolutely, that is one of the challenges. i will say, historically, we are

keeping more of our talent here in arkansas. we are also having students from other states that come here and find their future here. but it troubles me whenever we are losing some of our best talents here. but we have to concentrate on the stem education, the engineering fields that are important in the future. i mention computer science, one million unfilled jobs in the next 10 years. it is a combination of things. we need to make sure the industry is here to use the students that we graduate, but it starts with those students and the gallup poll that we have. -- talent pool we have. >> part of my jobs first plant, and you can read the entire thing on my website, one of the things that i called for is fully funding the governors to sing which scholarship so we keep the best and brightest in arkansas.

i am from a small town, prescott, arkansas. more times than not, when someone goes to college they do not come back. that is what we see in rural towns across arkansas and america. we need to create more and better paying jobs so that these young people have a job to come back to. >> obviously, we talked about education and jobs, it all blends together. one thing i wanted to touch on, it is money the governor has at their discretion. at one point you called it a slush fund. your thoughts on the continuation of that money. is that something the governor needs to bring a business to arkansas? >> the governor needs to have the ability to recruit industry, to use some incentives to get them here. that is very important for our state. what i said about the click action closing fun is that it is important, but we need more transparency, so we know how that is used. and in hindsight we can measure it better. we need better fallback

provisions. it has been used in instances in which we lost the industry. there need to be some adjustments in it, and that is what i have advocated consistently. in terms of the amount, i do not think we should be a lot -- should be locked in. we need to have adequately funded, as to the exact amount, we should not be definitive. we should look at the needs for the next year and balance the other needs of the state. >> i support the governor's quick action closing fund, i support the position of the chamber of commerce. it has worked. congressman hutchinson, this is his second consecutive decade running for state office. when the governor proposed this idea, to compete against other states, anderson hutchinson said it would be nothing more than governor beebee's slush fund. the fund has put 30,000 people to work in arkansas.

if we want to be competitive with surrounding states, and get more and better jobs to arkansas, we have to provide the incentives that other states are providing. fallback processes and procedures are already in place. i agree totally with the governor and support the quick action closing fund. >> i have already contacted a couple of them. >> and they are? >> i will say this, i was at the nra convention. i was visiting with gun manufacturers.

they are leading some in northeastern states because their product is illegal under the new gun laws. i said, make me a promise that when you leave you will consider arkansas before you make a decision. they made that commitment to me. i have passed that on, but i will follow-up personally. >> he has some people on deck. mr. ross, do you? >> we will not wait for industry to contact us, we will do due diligence. we will identify companies in america and the world that are looking to expand and relocate. i will spend time on the phone reaching out to these businesses, telling them why they should do business in arkansas. if i need to get on the next commercial flight and fly to their town and make a pitch, i well. metal include -- we have a lot of success stories in arkansas. people who have done well here. i will ask those who have done well in arkansas to give back and to become economic

ambassadors for arkansas. and ask them to reach out to these folks and let them know why they do business here. >> we talk about taxes, jobs, education, and all blends into tax. each of you has proposed a cut to the state income tax. here is a graphic that highlights your plans. some similarities. there are some new ones differences. big picture, they are similar, but i am sure you will tell me that they are quite different. mr. hutchinson, and your plan, the bottom of 41% of earners do not see any reduction. how do you characterize that as middle-class tax relief? >> because the tax relief is for between those who make 20000 and $75,000 a year. that is the middle class. i made the point that i think the defining question in this race is you can do the best to up the middle class, and this is a way to do that. >> the middle class is not a

majority of arkansasans? >> it is. it is targeted towards them. if you want to promise something to everybody like mr. ross. i wanted to make it something that is doable, and that is $100 million. when you limited to that, it is targeted, and towards the middle class. the lower income are already in a low tax bracket. the high income can wait for later. but give it to the middle class first, the sweet spot in arkansas, and there's a huge difference between my plan and mr. ross's', because it is a competitive issue. we have a 7% tax rate in arkansas, the highest in the region. mine will reduce that from a 7% to 6% and then 6% to 5%. that makes us more competitive. when i came out with my plan, from the very beginning, mr. ross said i will be letting rapists out of prison and and education in arkansas.

all this fear because he wanted to do a tax plan. and then he proposes something larger than what i propose. >> mr. ross, your tax plan, and what you think about mr. hutchinson's assertions? >> taxes are too high for the middle class and the working poor. i never thought i would see the day when a republican candidate in congressman hutchinson here would criticize me for wanting to cut people's taxes too much. i subscribe to the governor beebee model. this is a similar debate to what they had eight years ago, when the governor said we will save on the sales tax on groceries because we can afford that. anderson hutchinson said it was an empty promise. fast-forward, 80% of the tax has been taken off and the law has passed to take the remaining 20% off.

i subscribe to the same model. my plan is this, we will balance the budget first, fund education and public safety. with revenue growth we will in the let my plan for lower and fair taxes. >> you have manufacturers, pre-k, and a third one that escapes me. a three-pronged approach. which one takes precedence? >> here is what i think is important, and his campaign, i have said here are my priorities. here is my vision. here is what i want to accomplish in the next four to eight years. we will meet the priorities of the state and provide tax relief for working families. here is the difference between my plan and congress and hutchinson's. he has promised every voter in the state that he would cut taxes $100 million in his first

year in office when the department of finance and revenue will tell you that at best we will have a $50 million net revenue growth. that leaves a $50 million deficit. that is the kansas model. do you want our rating downgraded? >> veterans income is the third one. one of those obviously has to be the first to be cut. if the revenues are there, which one is most important? >> i think we can do some of all of that. that is what i called for and it is in my plan and i waited out on my website. it is about priorities, and those are my priorities and we will meet them with revenue growth. i will not promise $100 million in year one, that is the kansas model. this is a very important point. first of all, my plan is something that can be absorbed in our recurring revenue.

we grow about $200 million a year. the $100 million, if you look at the budget, it goes in the impact of 2016 fy. it is manageable. mr. ross has promised something to everyone, but he will not be definitive as to what he wants to do next year. i have been clear. i have said it $100 million, and this is where we will start. i want to ask mr. ross, what will you do next year? i have said but i will do next year. if you are going to present something to the legislature next year, but will it eat, and what is the amount of that? i have been very specific, and i think we owe it to the voters of arkansas to be specific, particularly when we are talking about the middle class. >> one thing you have been specific on, education. mr. hutchinson, your plan on tubular science. mr. ross -- computer science.

mr. ross, it your plan on pre-k. one thing that has raised concern, the common core. most folks think it works. a lot of controversy. mr. hutchison, the use of or common core in its full implementation? >> i support a review of common core. it is very important that we have high standards and education in arkansas, and i want to make sure we have the highest expectations for our student. secondly, i want arkansas to dictate its own education policy and not coming from washington dc. >> you think that is happening in common core? >> look at oklahoma who rejected it and now they are withdrawing the waivers for no child left behind. there is a lot of washington pressure on this.

i want to make sure that we determine high standards for arkansas based on our values. the meat you a quick story, top stories of high school asked me about common core, so i asked them. you want the next governor to modify common core or keep it as it is? 95% raised their hand and said it needs to be modified. it is just an anecdote, but my pledges this. i will have my commissioner of education review where we are, set high standards, and i want parents and teachers together to see what kind of tweaks we need to make to maintain high standards but controlled and directed from arkansas. >> mr. hutchinson, are you concerned about online testing. your thought on its implementation? >> i support the concept of common core. the concept is that we want to teach young people to think for themselves, in a way they can apply to college and careers and workplace. here is what common core is not, there is a lot of misinformation. number one, it is not a curriculum, it is a standard.

this business of it outlying multiplication tables is false. second, it was written by people like governor huckabee and governor jeb bush, and implement it and endorsed by the national governors association in poor nation with a lot of people that have been successful -- in coordination with people that have been successful in the business world. people like bill gates. it may need to between, i am receptive to that, but i think the concept is good. and >> gentlemen, sticking with education, let's move to pre-k. that is something that is very big on mr. ross' campaign. pre-k for everyone in five years, after you leave office. this coming in a. where schools are taxed for budgets. how would you pay for something

like that? >> that is a good question. i hope we can do it sooner than that. the first thing i want to do is fully fund the program that we have -- this is not a new program, this is the abc program. we are 11th in the nation in terms of quality, quantity is the issue. oklahoma has figured this out, i think it is the right thing to do. this is how i would pay for it. number one, we would increase from 200% to three and percent of poverty those who were eligible with net revenue growth, and there will be net revenue growth. congressman hutchinson wants to spend more than we would have in net revenue growth and put us on

the path of fiscal responsibility and have our credit rating lowered like kansas, as well as huge cuts to public education. we are going to do this, we are going to pay for this as we can afford and have revenue growth. for those between 300 and four and percent of poverty, they would pay half the cost, which is less than daycare today. those over 40% of poverty, $48,000 a year, they would pay the full price, which would be comparable to what they are paying for daycare now. we will implement it as we can afford it. >> mr. hutchinson, you called the plan a fiscally responsible, but you support the plan that exists. >> there is a distinction. we have an existing program that funds pre-k up to 200% of poverty, it means we are targeting towards those who need it the most. mr. ross wants to expand that to up to 300% of poverty and even up to 400% of poverty with taxpayer money. and so, whether they can afford it or not, you will get taxpayers to pay for it, and we have to prioritize. the governor was not able to

find the money to fund the existing program. i want to fund the existing abc program, not expanded, -- expand it, and target the money were beneath it the most. we have a revenue stabilization act. obviously we are going to fund education and balance the budget. we will fulfill our commitment to services. but with the revenue growth we have had historically, we will be able to pad that with tax cuts. the biggest difference we can make for the middle income is to raise our income here and the best way to do that is technology education combined with career education that teaches these skills for a workplace. >> cumbersome hutchinson, he says one thing in arkansas and does something else in washington. he voted against free gay programs. he says that -- pre-k programs. he says that my program is the wrong direction. and now he is for increasing access to pre-k. we is this the washington asa or the arkansas asa. i wish the real asa would stand up.

>> i'm not sure that a negative attack along those lines -- mr. ross spent 12 years in washington. he voted for nancy pelosi for speaker four times and voted against or twice. -- her twice. >> the only time she had an opponent, i gave the nominating speech for her opponent while she was in the front row. >> i said you voted for her four times, i did not say anything else. do not get so defensive about your flip-flopping. those are just the facts. we both have a record in washington. i have had a record of balancing the budget, for example. when i left congress, are washing -- our nation had a balanced budget. when mr. ross left, we had a deficit. >> we are just getting started tonight, the congressman -- candidates getting comfortable. coming up next, something we will see a lot of other. and some of the other issues the candidates will face.

>> the debate between the candidates will continue in a moment. while we wait, here are a look at the campaign as being aired in arkansas. don't you join the conversation on social media.

we will read your tweets later on in the broadcast. >> if you have spent any time -- youthe television set is take, 50 -- we want a look at some of the ads dominating the airwaves. shouldn't be for sale. the attacks on mike ross are not true. >> when it came out he did not tell the truth. >> asa hutchison found a mistake in his taxes. might -- meet mike ross. next governor will have to stand up to washington liberals like president obama and nancy pelosi. >> you need a governor and proven leader middle-class families can count on. >> just a sprinkling what is out there.

it is being fed very well. on the ads? too much? a lot of the ads do work. >> the negative ads are what is the problem. i think the voters want positive ads. i'm glad you played some of the ads, talking about computer science. i didn't add it to the about the agricultural community. about my truck and my wife. my wife has been on television. is what worksges out there and very disappointed whenever the negative ads turns the voters off. >> i have looked at every add

produced.ign has are you worried about everything else overshadowed -- overshadowing it? >> congressman hutchison and his wealthy out-of-state friends has spent millions trying to convince you i am something that i am not. lying about me and my record, i have been disappointed in that. i want to talk about my positive vision for the future of the state. improving education and creating more and better paying jobs for middle-class families. ringing jobs back to rural arkansas. lower and fairer taxes. my senior citizen bill of rights, my veterans matter plan. all those plans are based on life experiences that i had growing up in southwest arkansas in places like prescott and emmett and hope. i love this state and i know we can do better. >> we went from talking about the state stupor -- talking about the ads and producing a

couple. >> than me just come back to what mr. ross's speaking of. i have been positive, and he is talking about an ad from an out-of-state group we do not have control over. but you played an ad in which mr. ross attacked my character. that is what -- never advocate that happening, i think it is encouraging an 18-year-old to vote. does it encourage people to participate in the political process? that is the test for us. we have an obligation for candidates to make sure that we are encouraging people to say that public service is good. i think negative advertising does not work that way. i can control the senate race, i cannot control out-of-state groups, i can control my own message, and that is what i want to do. mike is right, it is about our vision for what we will do for the middle class, are tax cuts, our veterans. >> now wait a minute. asa wants to say poor me. he says he cannot control ads that are being run by the republican governors association? when he came out with this ad,

my wife is a pharmacist. she spent 14 years every day going to build a business. it is america, she sold her business for a profit in america, imagine that. he attacked her for that. for him to say, that is not me, that is the governor's association, do you know when that had began airing? when the chairman of the governor's association was in arkansas raising money for cumbersome hutchinson's campaign. he could have said that that is not fair. the house ethics committee and said there is no truth to this. but he did not, he kind of wink and let it continue to go and go after my wife. i think he owes my wife an apology, right here and right now. >> well, mr. ross, do you control the democratic governors association, the ads they run attacking me? you know better than that. i have no control over my ads it is illegal to coordinate those. i will let you answer the questions. i have never, never attack you

on the issue. if you remember me attacking, tommy right now. -- tell me right now. >> we will look forward to more positive as in the future. onto health care. the affordable health care act passed years ago, we use federal tax dollars. we now have 200,000 arkansans receiving coverage. a small portion are going the medicaid route. mr. hutchinson, we will start with you. what happens if you are in the governor's office? >> i'm in the best position to negotiate with the legislature and to stand up to president obama's administration as to what we need to do in the future. i positioned myself to make sure that we can measure the costs

clearly, without any question. the private option has helped our hospitals and expanded health care in arkansas. but any governor has to look at the cost for the future, down the road. when i'm governor, we will have taken up 10% of that. i think the costs are unpredictable. a report came out that the private option might cost more than the pure medicaid expansion. we are also still getting in numbers as to what the insurance rates are going to be. and so we are still measuring it. i think the governor has to be careful. let's wait till next year.

>> but the legislature lead the way? -- let the legislature lead the way? >> i expect to lead the way with the legislature. the republicans help to create the private option. i think i can bring together as well as the democrats and say, let's figure out the right way for the future. we also have the question of waivers, which is not just excepting the status quo but doing better. we may have to ask for more waivers from washington. >> i wholeheartedly support the medicaid expansion and the private option. regardless of how you feel about the aca, the only part we have a say over is the medicaid expansion. the governor worked to create an innovative, market-based, bipartisan solution known as the private option. fast forward one year, we are ranked number one in america. we reduced the uninsured rate in arkansas by half in just one year. nearly 200,000 people. am i point out that these are working arkansans.

people who do not work, they get medicaid. they are trying to do the right thing and get off welfare but are working jobs with no benefits. i will fight to protect it. congressman hutchinson here, he spent a year saying he had not read it, and then he went on npr to say that the only getting about the private option is that you put these folks -- as he called them, that it would be a simpler process to take them off of private insurance and medicaid. this is a lifeline to our world hospitals, that is why every hospital supports it. 200,000 arkansans will be healthier now, which will help us create a more educated and skilled workforce to bring more and better paying jobs to arkansas. as governor, i will be a leader. i will tell you clearly where i stand on the issue, he continues to dodge it. yes i know, do you support the private option? i do.

>> in that diatribe that we just heard, you will notice that there was never one mention of what it cost. and i think that any governor has to be responsible to look at the cost to the taxpayers when we do the things. and clearly the private option is doing good things out there for our world hospitals. but -- rural hospitals. but i would be responsible to talk and pledged 100% support without modification, without looking at it closely and when it costs down the road. so my pledge to the voters is that i will work with the legislator to get the right solution and get a solution that we can afford. and also to push back to see how we can improve it. it is not about the status quo, it is not about accepting what we have been doing. mr. ross would've accepted the medicaid expansion surely as it was. under his leadership, we would

never have had a private option, because he would've supported the expansion. it was the republican leadership that came in to look at in an innovative fashion. >> we talk about these issues and successes of past governors. your predecessors, all the way back to clinton, have come into the governor's office through state government. one of these have been involved but are removed. >> i spent 10 years balancing the state budget. >> tummy, from your point of view, how do both of you forge those relationships and work on something as important on the private option? >> first of all, if i can respond, i have mentioned numerous times that we will balance the budget first. the most the state ever pays a 10%. we will be able to afford that because of the growth that will occur because of the jobs it creates. 20,000 people having health care creates more jobs in the health care sector. any economist will value it will more than pay for itself. i am committed to protecting it and still, right here tonight, he will not give us a straight yes or no whether or not he supports these 200,000 working arkansans keeping their health

insurance. look, i have a history of being bipartisan, and congress and hutchinson has a history of being partisan. "the national journal" consistently listed me as one of the most independent members of congress. i earned an a plus rating from the national rifle association. at a history of working with democrats and republicans to get the job done, and that is what i will do as governor. >> sit tight. >> you have another question? because he just unloads a barrage here. >> i will try and slow down a little, i apologize. >> you're going a little bit long. one, when you talk about bipartisanship, i have been in state government and have worked across the aisle, and i have the opportunity -- ability to do that. >> we will be back after a short break, we will tackle the twitter reaction. here's a live look at another watch party for asa hutchinson.

there are his supporters cheering their candidate on. you're watching the broadcast of the statewide governor debate. >> you are looking live at another watch party for mike ross, this one is downtown. we want to welcome you back to the arkansas governor debate.

which candidate is making an impact with you and why, that is the question we asked and here is what we are hearing. . next we have -- josh is saying -- here is another comment we want to share with you tonight --

that is just a snapshot of what we are seeing tonight on the conversation in social media. let's send it back to you. break i posted this question. to give you plenty of time to address that. experience,look at i think my experience does lend itself to work well for us -- for legislature. i not only have legislative experience but executive experience. president bush appointed me the head of the eea. -- dea. i helped set up the department of homeland security. i had to work with the legislative branch. that experience as an executive leading a large agencies, as well as legislative, helps me with the state legislature. i have already talked with them. i think it is very important, when you work in a bipartisan way, not to say here to the opposing party, here's what we need you to help or support after you have drafted it. you need to bring them in early

on the process. that is what i would want to do, whether private option or computer coding or a whole host of things we need to address, including the crime law that we face. >> click -- here's a quick series of issues, looking for concise responses. minimum wage. it is on the november 4 ballot. mr. ross, how important is it for folks to support this measure. >> working folks deserve a raise. i support increasing the state minimum wage. congressman hutchinson opposes raising the minimum wage, and he says he was against it in this campaign until a few weeks ago. then he says he is for it. i was derailed congressman hutchinson would stand up. working-class families deserve a

pay raise, and i will work hard to make sure that we increase the minimum wage. some of them are working and earning 13,000 a year. >> can i stop you right there? in 30 seconds. >> i support the minimum wage and will vote for the ballot initiative. i said we needed to raise the minimum wage from day one when he was undecided. we have had a debate about process. are we supporting a minimum wage increase -- we have done a historically, but we have to talk about more than minimum wage. we have got to be able to have a stronger wage rate in arkansas, and my technology initiative will help to do that. >> an issue that came up this week, we have seen advocates for the disabled protest across little rock. do you support this? >> i support those with disabilities having more options, including the option to

live at home and independently. my mom had polio when she was a year old. she spent more time growing up in children's hospitals than she did at home. i understand the challenges that those who face disabilities have, and i believe they need more choices, not less. if they choose to live and evidently, they should be allowed to do so. >> and i agree that choices are important. the cfc oh -- cfco is one part of obamacare that states have an option in. not many states have excepted the option. cost is an issue in this. but it is something you need to look at. i support more options for those that qualify for them. >> let me switch row quick, we would be remiss if we did not touch on prisons and crime. we will start with mr. hutchinson. is a new prison inevitable, and how does that play into what the state needs to do? >> this is where i want to use

my experience. probably no one has been governor of arkansas with the kind of law-enforcement experience i have had. from being a prosecutor to leading law enforcement agencies. we have a drug problem and a crime problem. we need to change behavior, lockup violence, and look at alternatives for those who might fit into the rehabilitative programs with accountability. we need to reform our parole system. the question is, is a $100 billion prison inevitable? not under my watch. i know that as a recommendation that is being studied, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. we need to look at every creative alternative an option before we do that. >> mr. ross, we have talked about prisons. kind of the same question, is it an inevitable path? >> we have a lot of pressure put on our county jails, nearly two

dozen inmates backed up in county jails. some say it -- 2000 inmates act up in county jails. it will be taking million dollars a year to operate it. -- $50 million a year to operate it. the jury is still out on it. whether we build a prison or not, i want to see meaningful reforms were criminal justice system. we need smarter sentencing, alternative sentencing for nonviolent and first-time offenders. we need more drug treatment courts and the veteran treatment courts. that will come at a fraction of the cost of a new prison. >> will move on right now. we appreciate the dialogue. thank you for coming in and discussing things with us. hopefully it helps the and decided voters take a stand. as the end of the broadcast, we want to give each of you a chance to directly appeal -- look directly into the camera. mr. hutchinson? >> thank you, and i appreciate all arkansans who have taken time to listen to this debate tonight. it has been heated from time to

time, because it is so important what we are trying to accomplish. the test is, what can we do most to help and grow the middle class and their income level in arkansas? that is my passion, economic growth and job creation. i have a specific plan that will work for arkansas. it is asaplan.com. it includes lowering tax rates, career education classes tied to a job. we need to make sure that we offer stem education including computer science. if only 20% of our students to computer science, computer coding, that would be 6000 graduates a year that would move into our economy. that could dynamically change the economy of arkansas with a very low cost investment. we need to reduce regulatory burden. i have been blessed in arkansas. i have served two presidents in high positions. but the highest honor i could have as a public servant would be to serve the people of arkansas as your next governor.

and i am here asking for your vote and i look forward to the closing days of this campaign has me really tell what we want to do for the state of arkansas. thank you very much. >> mr. ross? >> well, bob, david, thank you very much for hosting me this evening. i would like to begin by saying hello to my mom and dad, and all my family and friends back home. going up in a small town, i never dreamed i would be sitting here in a debate as a candidate for governor of this great state. and it is happening -- it is happening for one reason. it is happening because i had the opportunity to receive an education that is second to none. that is what i want for your family. that is what i want for your children. that is what i want for your

grandchildren. i have a positive vision for the future of this state, and it starts with education. my parents were school teachers. i am passionate about education because i believe that is how we create more and better jobs. that is how we allow more people to become part of the middle class in this state. job creation -- i want to be the biggest economic ambassador the state has ever had. the way we do that is by having an educated, trained, and skilled workforce. i have a plan to lower unfair taxes, and i am going to implement the tax the same way the governor took the tax off groceries. we are going to do these things in a fiscally responsible manner, as the state can afford it. we are going to fund education, medicaid, and public safety. as we have revenue growth, we are going to continue to cut taxes for hard-working folks all across the state. i believe all women in this state deserve to make the same

amount of money as their male counterparts. the same education, doing the same job. i feel very strongly about giving women in this state an opportunity to be able to earn what their counterparts earn. and domestic violence -- we are going to send a message loud and clear, all over the state, that domestic violence will no longer be tolerated in arkansas. i have a positive vision for the future of this state, and i hope you'll read all about it at mikeross.com. >> thank you for joining us. let's send it back over to ashley. >> we of coarse thank you for spending your night here with the arkansas governors debate. #argov. to use that more analysis during the capitol view broadcast. you will also be able to view capital view as well as any other episode on the capital available through the

itunes store store and google play. have a great night. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] >> we have more campaign 2014

coverage coming up. -- candidate for pencil pennsylvania governor debate tonight. tom corbett is running for a second term. also tom wolfe. tonightlive coverage starting at seven: 30. the candidates for the arizona governor seat met last week in chandler. we will have more in a couple of moments. some of the items coming up today here on c-span -- we have live coverage of the white house briefing. at 4:00 eastern, treasury secretary jack lew takes part in a discussion on the economic effects of climate change, on the eve of the u.n. climate change summit in new york. we will be live as the cbs news chief washington correspondent moderates a discussion on combating isis. 6:30, a book on private military and security companies

soldiers."le and now the candidates for the arizona governor seat. in schindler,k arizona, to debate education and economic issues. fred duval" see -- and doug ducey discuss the educational system and the budget crisis. the kpnx anchor begins this hour-long debate. >> please welcome the candidates, republican doug ducey and democrat fred duval. [applause] we will hear another round of applause at the end of the evening. in between, there will be silence.

each candidate has one minute to make an opening statement. we flipped a coin to see who will go first, and it is doug ducey. i am one hundred percent supportive of our president in his role as commander in chief on the eve of 9/11 to protect our nation. my name is doug ducey, and i do want to be your next governor. i am proud to announce that tonight we have been endorsed by the arizona chamber of commerce and the national federation of independent business. these are job critters large and small from across arizona, and i am honored to receive their endorsement. my wife angela is joining me. years thismarried 24 october. we have three sons who are home doing homework and not watching this on television. a very clear agenda as your governor. , and i wantessman to take a plan of action to the ninth floor, to be an independent voice, to jumpstart

our economy, so every arizonan that wants a job can build a fulfilling career. i want to improve our k-12 education system so our children, teachers, and parents can have improvement inside our schools. i want to get arizona out from underneath the thumb of the federal government. i am looking forward to the discussion tonight. thank you for having me. >> thank you, doug ducey, and thank you audience. fred duval. >> great to be with all of you. our prayers and thoughts go out to those who will be called upon to serve our country in uniform at this time in the nation needs to come together to face a terrible threat. governoring for because i believe arizona has so much potential, a we are headed in the wrong direction. our economy is not recovering the way we want it to. the jobs we are growing pay less than the jobs we left in the recession.

our education system has been decimated by budget cuts. today, 1/3 of our teachers leave every year. we have the largest class sizes in the united states. if there is anything else i hope you will remember about me today and tonight, it is that i will veto any budget that cuts another nickel or another penny from public education. i am proud to be here with jennifer and my son will, who is headed off to the army, and at home, our six-year-old, monti. these education cuts are the most important facing us to drive our economy. we have a lawsuit which has been settled by this great court, which we have got to deal with right away. i am calling for us to begin funding our schools immediately. no more delays. no more post poneman. it is time to make funding k-12 education our principal priority, and i hope doug will join the with that tonight. governor, ans as

arizona's success, depends on the health of our state budget. one of you will inherit a budget crisis. don't take my word for it. that is what governor jan brewer said not too long ago. here is what one of you will face. the legislature's budget staff projects a $285 million deficit in the current fiscal year. that is right now. that includes herbert ordered backpay because the legislature and governor illegally underfunded k-12 education. that number could grow into billions. at $765cit is projected a billionlmost dollars over the next two years. there is a rainy day fund stocked with about $450 million for use as the governor and legislature choose. the payment education -- the

judge ordered the first payment to be made immediately. there are some appeals. doug ducey, will you ask the legislature in january to make that payment? >> i want to make sure the geturces in k-12 education to our classroom so they can support our teachers teaching and our students learning. i think it is important that we understand where the state is financially, and where it was. i come at this as the state treasurer. we were -$730 million in our checking account. there was not one dollar available to pay teachers, fill potholes, or provide any essential state services. over the last four years, the state has dug out of that financial hole. today, we have cash in our 400 $54g account, million in a reserve account, earning interest. million in a reserve

account, earning interest. i would like to take the opportunity to restructure our programs that i do not believe are working. i do not believe are getting dollars to the classrooms to support our teachers. i will take this crisis as an opportunity to restructure education funding. i do support the appeal. >> will you ask the legislature as soon as you take office to pay the first installment? >> once the appeal is exhausted in the i'm court ruling is gone, final courthe ruling is done, yes. >> what would you do? and explain with as many specifics as you can where you are going to find the money to deal with this deficit. >> thanks for the question. the answer is yes, without any hesitation. wish the governor would begin the discussions now about those payments. the supreme court has ruled. we can keep delaying the payments. we can keep postponing what is

inevitable. we have lost five years. we have lost half a generation. our class sizes are too large. is tootabilization great. ,e need story after story discussing how we move forward. the rainy day fund is here for that purpose. i will draw upon it as the first step. we can do procurement reform in the state, centralizing procurement to pull together some dollars to get back into our country. but we must have the commitment to put education first, and quit the delays, quit the appeals, and grow ourselves out of this recession. >> this deficit which will i am not looking at anything that gets us to $300 million, much less a billion.

shrinkt to shrink and -- a government. >> i think the opportunity with our budget is to go through it as a businessman, line by line, dollar by dollar, and get rid of anything that is not working, , or a lobbyist loophole regulation that weighs down our business community and the creation of jobs. there is no way to fix this budget without kickstarting our economy. that is why i am excited about the opportunity to be governor. i am someone who has built a brand that is known and loved around the country, and now the world. businesses to grow. imagine an arizona where existing companies are growing, and out-of-state companies look to arizona as the perfect place in which to do business. >> i hate to interrupt. i want to reel this back into

the deficit discussion. i am not sure the audience is hearing answers to the question. you talk about shrinking a government. what services? where would you start with shrinking this government? >> i want to start with the government that we need, rather than talking about cuts. >> what is off the table? what is on the table, as far as the government we need? >> i would not raise taxes. that is a commitment i will make tonight. >> no new revenue, so where are cuts going to come from? >> i am going to go through the budget like a businessperson, line by line and dollar by dollar, to restructure this. there is cash in the bank today. million and a reserve account, earning interest. the land endowment trust fund is at a record high of $4.5 billion. our state has assets.

i am going to look at the budget one fiscal year at a time. >> what is on the table? where are the cuts going to come from? >> everything except education. this is a long-term investment in our state. a growing economy is an economy education.ses its we need a k-12 system for the future. >> give us specifics. what would you cut? where would you raise revenue? you have indicated you want to add programs. where would the money come from? >> i am talking about making these payments now. the voters have spoken. the court has ruled. doug is proposing appeal yet. if he is going to be honest about saying education needs to

be off the table, let's get on with this. it is court ordered. it is the most important thing we have to do. >> there is a deficit right away. where is the money going to come from? >> i will look to the rainy day fund. i will look at to permit reform. we will look to whether there are opportunities to privatize portions of the state government. >> privatizing portions of state government? >> there is the possibility of a lottery. there are other things other states have played with that look like opportunities to monetize. sure thatok to make we look to create more prevention and wellness in order to bring the health spams down, since it is such a big part of the budget. >> sounds like a lot more work to get to a billion. as atate education system tool for building our economy --

is it the most important tool in the box, or one of several tools? >> it is one of several tools. arizona is an economy not only gordon for our existing it is the perfect place to do business. i am tired of the rhetoric around jobs. we are perfectly positioned to do this as a state. california is right next-door. they are pushing companies out and they are now moving to arizona. we are chicago's favorite suburb, but those jobs are going to indiana, florida, and texas. it is time to act. we need to improve our tax code. keep the focus on k-12 and universities. >> when you are going to bring people to our state, you have got to have the attractive place in which to do business, and

discussion. of that >> the arizona legislature has cut more than $400 million in funding for universities. there were five tuition increases while you are on the board of regents. you have told a reporter you were not. thickly against tuition increases. hilosophically against tuition increases. >> i increased in arizona faster and more aggressively than any state in the united states. as a result, today there are more students of middle and lower income who are performing, capable, and smart going to our universities. the governor and legislature cut $400 million from our universities in one year. i took a leadership role and we went after cuts. we sold off dorms. we privatized groundskeeping. we did a variety of things to reduce costs. beyond that, i was very proud to

come up with a new delivery .odel for higher education students can go online and take courses from community colleges and universities, and get their degree at 1/3 lower costs. urgency led to new thinking, now a national best practice. as chairman of the board of regents having redesigned our institutions, i produced a budget which ended in the first flat increase in arizona history. our budgets today are operating at a 3% tuition rate increase and stabilized with better students, better results, better retention, better research, and we have redesigned the institutions. i do not appreciate these attacks which are half true, which don't explain the cuticulty of a $400 million to our universities. people said, just close the campuses. i said, not going to happen. his team broke it.

i fixed it. i do not think that is exactly accurate. i think the record would show therender your leadership was record high tuition spending, record high and record high borrowing. >> the budget was a hundred $60 million for the next five years. you had at least $860 million to spend or more. the bonding continued, and the tuition hikes continued. if that is your other philosophy, and the state would be in terrible trouble in a downturn. those are the facts. 1/3 enrollmentk a increase. our purse didn't investment remain flat while we were taking on record levels of new enrollment. the question became, folks

cannot just close campuses. there is no other legal way to get around this budget shortfall. i said, we are going to redesign the system. i was called in front of the national governors association transfer about how you create access at a lower price. our university is more efficient than almost any university in the country. do not talk to me about inefficiencies. i fixed it. this was a crisis brought on by 50% reductions in state of our students. ipod to make sure they stayed open. t to makeght -- i fough sure they stayed open. >> just like state government finally got to it, you need to tighten your belt. over theat the budget

course of time. we need to look at how we more effectively and efficiently educate our children and higher learning. we have to be accountable to the voters. there is just over $9 million in the state budget. if we want to grow this economy, have a driving k-12 system -- i came out here as a midwestern kid to get an education. i am a very proud son devil. i talk about being an entrepreneurial fellow for the school of management. but these are the amount of dollars we have to deal with. been ok withhave closing campuses? >> i would not be ok with closing campuses. i am not here to do fred's job as a region, but there are different options. ast like a legislature or treasurer, and what we did to reform the permanent land

endowment trust fund, i would look at different options so we can do things more effectively than they were done. 90% of arizona students attend k-12 public schools. what is the sharpest difference between the two of you in how wouldyou -- how you handle getting arizona up from the bottom of the country ranking in public education? >> i think this will point to one of the biggest differences between us. talk about reducing arizona income tax to zero. put that in perspective. we have a $9 billion budget. the state income tax is maybe 45% of that. on notion that you could, top of the budget deficit described -- that you could withdraw 40% of the state budget and still fund health care, corrections, education, is tooth fairy math. it is not a real set of choices. you have got to make decisions. my number one priority will get

us back into investing in education, making the tough choices to ensure that will happen. the notion we can have it both ways -- i would like to cure cancer and promise everyone can day. but this deficit will not allow us to do both education and that kind of tax repeal. >> the deficit might not allow us to put more money into education plus something else. use a tough choices -- what is a tough choice you are going to make to invest more in education? >> we are going to be able to have an opportunity to decide in the out years what we do. >> but here we are, day one. you have a 300 million dollar deficit. >> i have given you five examples. >> see if voters think that gets to $300 million. tooth fairy math -- we are jumping ahead to texas. but i asked you this back in

june. the math does not work if you get the income tax down to zero. you have to make up $4 billion. >> the income tax 20 is a correction. code ought to look like somebody actually wrote it on purpose. would be the beginning of a healthy economy that would protect arizona companies and hard-working taxpayers. people deserve something that is flatter and a lot easier to deal with. that is not what we have today. i do want to reform our tax code. steve moore of "the wall street "the arizonabob of republic" say these are ideal ideas, but it is going to take time. we need a growing economy and a more efficient government. to deal with education today, we

have to take the $9 billion in total that we are spending. >> spending on what? >> county, state, and federal. >> the state spends a portion of that. the county spends about one and a half. >> can i talk about my direction? also said taxes did not make much of a difference. our tax rate is already really low. but where is the money coming from? this is a consistent theme. >> i am addressing that. let me say to those, with all due respect, that's a texas don't make a difference -- why is new york running these commercials that say, move your business to new york and you'll have 10 years of no taxes, and

taxes don't make a difference? in businesss led creation with no income taxes? that is aspirational. but when i come to office in 2015, i have to deal with a million schoolchildren in our k-12 system. what is going to be the most importance to me is that they have the proper funds and resources at the classroom level. and i believe we can spend this $9 billion better than we are spending it today. to lead theeed reform around funding formulas that i don't think are serving our children, teachers, and parents. those are the dollars i am going to spend. >> we have been asking for viewer questions. let's get to a couple right now. are you for common core? ?hy or why not >> the arizona proposal led by governor brewer is something i

support, along with governor chris christie, along with the bipartisan governors across the united states. compete in ang to 21st-century economy, we need to have accountability metrics that comparison to other schools across the city, across the state, across the world. the only way you can do that is to have aspirational goals. these are not curriculum. these are simply goals based upon student grades. seriouse going to be about investing in education, which is the direction i want to go -- i do not want to do more tax reform. i want to invest in education. that is my goal. we have to tie that to performance expectations of our schools and students. matter every child, no what home, what school, where they start in life -- no matter what zip code, that spark to ignite the potential to improve as employees in our economy.

doug ducey, do you support common core? >> i have spoken out against common core, and here is the reason why. wrote that continuing years of federal involvement in k-12 education has resulted in mediocrity. common core has been tied to washington, d.c. for funding. for that reason, i believe it has co-opted something that began as a good idea and now i think is unworkable. i have to talk to moms and dads about this campaign. i am for higher standards. i am for teachers being empowered in the classroom. makes a difference as the leaders of these schools. it has happened across the state

. we are getting the dollars and resources where they are needed, and they will make the difference. i am also not part of this blame arizona first crowd. we have three of the top 10 high schools in the nation in the state of arizona. we know how to educate a child. the problem is, there is too many places where it is not being done. i want to come and reapply the best practices of the schools that are working across our state, and lead the country in improvement, year over year. board gilbert school asked the governor to let them out of common core. would you let the gilbert school board out of common core? >> i would. >> he would let the gilbert school board out of common core? >> why would i mandate to a school board as governor what they should do in terms of an initiative that has taking newman, george will, the list goes on and on, the teachers union, that are opposed to this.

i do not know who botched the rollout, but i find it an unhappy distraction. if we can talk about outcomes and results for our kids, if we can vision as to what a kid looks like when they walk across a stage on the date of graduation, and what they know, and then look at that from a state perspective, that is the kind of education system a doug ducey administration would move forward in arizona. >> you would fund the way for appropriate charter schools. does that mean paying private operators to construct schools, helping to finance that? >> this is another idea from reading the arizona republic. we have some of the finest high schools in the nation here. the mesa school system has a 2000 kid waitlist. the great heart school system has a 12,000 kid waitlist. i believe mom and dad know better where their child should

go to school than someone writing zip code lines. i would like to sit down with education champions and say, how can we move these kids into the school they prefer more quickly? i think it is a huge opportunity. >> does that mean funding construction through taxpayer funding? >> it is not just public charter schools. it is also public traditional k-12 that are excelling. we have open enrollment in the state, parents who want to move kids from one district to another. i want to reward those districts. i think there is ways we can do that by giving flexibility to those dollars, so moms and dad can decide where they can be spent, and educate their child indicate to 12 system. i would offer an example of the educational savings accounts. those of done a good job to demonstrate flexibility for a

small number of our children. and if there is a school with a waitlist, i think there would be an opportunity to the educational savings account model, the empowerment savings account model, to let a child decide whether they want to go to school in the public system, and to fund the waitlist. x 85% of our children go to a traditional public school. many of them don't have parents who can run them across town to a different school. they are in their neighborhood, in their school. what we know about talent, what we know about human capacity, is it is randomly distributed at birth. opportunity is not equally distributed in life. excellent students occur in every neighborhood in every school. we have to make sure we fund schools across the board in a so those gifts can be lifted, that magic can occur. i was talking earlier today with amber gould.

she is from the glendale school district. she was walking me through what is taking place in her school district. that may give you some examples. they have eliminated librarians and counselors. in scottsdale today, they let the students out at 1:15 as a budget savings. the students lose two hours every day. tucson unified school district told me the other day 150 classrooms do not have a permanent teacher. a phoenix superintendent told me he has put together a seventh grade math curriculum. he cannot find a permanent teacher. he has seven different substitutes lined up, two weeks in a row. about the money washing around in education. we are strangling our capacity to make sure every school provides every student in the potential to be everything they can be. you question earlier, how do i place education in the array of assets for economic development? i think it is the most important thing. it is a talent-driven world,

where human productivity be the most important thing. we cannot compete on size against china and india. we cannot compete on cost. america is to compete on the smartest, most innovative workforce. that happens in every school district. we have to make sure we resource these students better. you cannot get there if your first priority is tax repeal. you have got to make education your priority. >> arizona has typically lead the country out of recession, but that is not happening after the great recession. the state has regret and 63% of jobs it has lost. the country as a whole has regained 107% of those lost jobs -- all the jobs and then some. we ranked 14th in job growth for the first seven months of the year. we trail the southwest, nevada, texas, utah, colorado, and california. there is more. people are not moving to arizona

the way they once did. millennial's are not buying homes the way baby boomers did. economists are pushing our recovery back to 2016. are we at a turning point, a fundamental moment where the growth, the economy we have lived off for decades, is over? dna.izona has exceptional we are in an innovative, entrepreneurial place. wherethe exact asset speed, adaptation, economic growth, small business is the most important thing. we have got that in arizona. businesses looking to move across the country -- will i find the workforce i need in order to grow my business? will the talent be there? secondly, will my children have a good school to go to? we are losing in that debate. this is not about taxes. we have lower taxes in arizona

23 of the last 24 years. you have just heard the statistics. we are not growing going we need to. education is the driver of the 21st century economic growth, and we have got to make it our priority. that is why i will veto any budget that comes to me with another nickel in cuts. >> doug ducey, wait -- why is arizona falling behind? >> i am running for governor to kickstart our economy, and grow like we have in the past. how many people in the audience were born somewhere other than the state of arizona? it looks to me well over 50% or 60% of the hands went up. i ask this question everywhere across the state. we have a great state. their dollars.h in the game of states, people vote with their feet, with their ryder trucks and you halls. -- u-hauls.

we have been leading in population growth for decades. what we have not been leading in is job creation and business relocation. i have talked to governor's like jeb bush and scott walker. states to profile our for what we want to be -- the warm, welcoming, inviting state that is wide open and entrepreneurial. the governor will be signed him in january of 2015. look at what january is going to look like in the state of arizona. we are going to kick off the fiesta bowl. two weeks later, we are going to move to the pro bowl. we are going to have the largest golf tournament in the world. we will be advertising back in chicago, where it will probably be a freezing, miserable winter. at the end of the week, the entire world will be focused on arizona as the super bowl kicks off. it is a great time to hit the refresh button and to brand of the state that we are, and let

people know we are open for business. theseis no way to create jobs without bringing businesses from california, illinois, and the other places they are moving, and allowing current small business owners to grow and thrive. i was a small businessman. i know what makes a small business work. that is the energy i am going to bring to the governor's office. >> with all due respect, we have those events every year, or most years. not the super bowl. we have the golf tournament. people see arizona in winter. we have seen that for years. we have been going after chicago and california for years. what is different? it seems something fundamental has changed. what are you going to do that is different from the playbook we have had for many years? >> we have grown organically. we have had an embarrassment of riches. i want to lead the effort. i want to make growth the

objective. i think the growth is a gift. around father's day back in toledo, ohio -- you would land in detroit, michigan. the richestroit was city in the country. i imagine they never thought the growth would stop with the big slow down. it is due to a lack of leadership and poor public policy. we grow. we build a lot of houses. we have a construction and real estate industry. >> why are we lacking? arizona, when -- the country goes into a downturn, it is harder on arizona, because we have been built on growth. >> we have to go to the break. it is a hard stop. >> you got it. >> we have a hard stop coming up

in about 20 seconds or so. hate to do that. we are back with you. thanks for sticking with our debate this evening. i interrupted you in mid-thought. please continue. >> we unfortunately have a state people were to move to. when the economy turns down nationally, it hurts us more as a growth economy. booms,n the economy typically, we have boomed along with it, or even more so. our national economy is not booming. this is a very tepid recovery. this is part of the reason i believe the arizona chamber of commerce has endorsed me, and the national federation of independent businesses. they know i understand how to make things go. >> at the forefront, back in the took a beatingna 1062 testg, when sb

the legislature. major corporations said they were going to show in arizona because they saw intolerance for lgbt residents and visitors. policyter for arizona wrote the bill, one of your earliest endorsers. if the legislature passes another version, would you veto it? >> when it came up, i said i would veto it. your point about an individual in my coalition -- i was very proud of my coalition. i build the broadest coalition of anyone in the republican primary. and i am going to continue to add to that coalition. when the governor is signed in, we all know what a wonderful state this is to live in. the opportunity to project that out -- >> if that built into you again,

you would veto it? >> i said i would veto it. i have been consistent. >> i would veto it. when it first was coming in front of the legislature i said to the governor immediately, veto this before the firestorm of national criticism that has hurt our economy so much. it took a couple of days to get to that point. we cannot let these issues of intolerance and discrimination define our state. i go back to the theme i mentioned earlier. if you really appreciate business is about drawing talent -- talent comes in every god-given form. it comes in every sexual orientation, every color. you have got to put out a welcome mat, not a stop sign. these issues create an image for arizona that is not who we are, and not who we aspire to be. it is not consistent with a talent-based recovery.

>> you get the value of branding. why would you attach your brand arpayo brt: -- to the and? two latinos, that is a pariah. latinos, that is a pariah. >> my coalition was the broadest of anyone in the race. >> is that your final argument to voters? >> regardless how people work me to run away from my coalition, i continue to add to that coalition. i have people likely a marquez peterson -- not in her official role, but in her day job. she works at the tucson chamber of commerce. the latinos who i have spoken with, the issue is the economy. the second issue is education. i leave those rooms thinking we have a winning message to win voters. i am not asking folks to switch parties. i am asking people to get behind

a progrowth, positive message from the state of arizona. how youru understand team sends a message to latinos in the state? he is opposed by the majority of them, according to the polls. do get to become governor, you will get to set the agenda. open you run for governor, it is the electorate that sets the agenda. we had an issue, whether for thousands of people transported from texas to arizona, dropped off at greyhound bus station stashed border security again became a huge issue inside our state. i did my best to responsibly address this. i worked with my coalition to do that. issue in very real arizona. i think in some ways it is exclusive of the opportunity to grow our economy, to partner with our largest trading partner to the south, which is mexico,

and to make the case of opportunity for all. growthtting a year of for a year of seat time in our k-12 system. >> i do think you get defined by your endorsements and coalitions. doug has been endorsed by sarah palin, ted cruz. i think it says a lot about the choices he makes and the policies he is pursuing. i respect that. those are his choices. there are over 200 republican endorsements, over 20 former legislatures and city officials, many from the east valley. i believe, and it comes out of my years of working across the aisle, that what arizona needs is a bipartisan coalition that is about economic growth, fixing the classroom, long-term investment in talent. working with the republican legislature to bring access to groundwater or the freeway

system, or working with the clinton white house to implement welfare reform, working on american energy independence -- the things that change the country and the state occur when folks show the capacity to build coalitions across the aisle. >> i would point out that part of his coalition is someone who said, boycott arizona. supportedancially nancy pelosi and spent his life as a special-interest lobbyists. you are not a partisan -- someone who is the money man for the democratic governors association is a --artisan individual -- that i have been in the private sector. your entire life has been at the intersection of politics, money, and washington, d.c.

>> if i was going to be partisan, i do not think 200 republicans, including leo corbin, the senate president during the time i was the legislative liaison -- iran .gainst him he is one of the endorsers. he has seen my ability to build a sustainable coalition with big outcomes. >> some of the questions we have been getting on our twitter feed -- what is your stand on gay marriage? support it or not? >> i favor marriage equality. i believe it is a time to recognize family members who have struggled with this issue. throughout my life, we have dealt with this. it is high time we end this and enable people in loving relationships to marry. >> i am supportive of the tradition of marriage. i have said to folks that as an elected leader i don't expect

people to agree with me on every issue, but i will state what i believe. i will respect others. i will listen. i will treat everyone with dignity and kindness. on an issue like this, the governor does not make the decision. the decision is decided by the people, i believe. and we will see what the people say. that is where i stand. >> and if the courts ruled in favor of same-sex marriage, you would abide by that? >> when you become governor, you take an oath to uphold the law and the constitution. i would uphold our law and constitution. >> on minimum wage -- would you increase the minimum wage in arizona to $18 an hour? >> nobody wants a minimum wage job. i think what people want are fulfilling careers. is, i want to maximize everyone's opportunity to have a larger paycheck.

my son has a minimum wage job. he makes seven dollars and $.90 an hour. i am not sure he would still be employed is the minimum wage went to $15. i first want to say, is there any talk of a teenage minimum wage, so we do not destroy teenagers that are in the workforce? is, thend thing nonpartisan congressional budget office said if that legislation were to pass, america would lose 500,000 jobs. to see moreho wants jobs, more opportunity, or careers happen, i have to think that for 500,000 jobs to be lost is not good. i am not supportive of it. >> it is virtually impossible to support a family on today's minimum wage. in arizona, the voters passed an initiative so the arizona minimum wage is indexed to inflation, and it keeps it more current, which is, i think, the right approach, going forward.

>> something just occurred to me. correct me -- did you get a response to -- a chance to respond with your jobs plan? earlier in the evening, we were talking with doug ducey about his jobs land. i am not sure i brought you into that conversation. >> i would welcome a chance. >> did i bring you in? i am trying to be fair. >> i appreciate that. i would be happy to talk about jobs. >> as specific as you can -- you have heard me say that we have been doing a lot of the same things for a while. what can you do that is different? it is so important that you create economic energy in arizona. number one is, quit the self-destructive things like 1062, clearly. going the economy -- number one is nurturing small businesses. we lose too many small businesses in those first couple of years. i thing we need lower tax treatment and real public policy

tools to make sure the entrepreneurial energy is more successful. enormoush mexico is an opportunity. we have been watching texas, new mexico, and california still a lot of that trade. we have got to create the infrastructure and strategy and , togement which makes it go take advantage. i will lead a delegation to mexico city in the first week i am governor. back to what we were talking about earlier -- you have got to have an innovation-based economy, the new things the rest of the world would want to buy. that requires research and development. that requires help. it requires strong universities. it requires commercialization. export strategies. we have to create things other people outside arizona want to buy.

>> in the context of immigration, president obama said he would take executive action on immigration after the elections. it could include legal status for millions of undocumented immigrants. >> i hope the president will take this moment to create a permanent, sustainable, bipartisan solution. it is a bipartisan consensus which has not yet passed in congress, that it is time for a comprehensive act led by our senators that focuses more resources on the border, to secure the border more than it is. >> is that a no? support the president acting -- >> he is not going to act. i support his postponement of the consideration. >> he is going to act after the midterm? >> i hope not. i hope we solve this once and permanently, so we have a solution that works for arizona and works for our border.

it is going to happen at the midterm. >> i do not think so. >> the president said it is going to happen. and i am opposed to it. an executive order is not a partisan. i am in favor of comprehensive reform, passed by our congress, that is being held up by the republicans in the house. it is time for the president and republicans who have failed us in washington. this dysfunction has gone on long enough. i have watched it with energy. i have watched it on budget issues. now we are watching it on immigration. we need congress to act on a permanent solution that works for our border community and state economy. >> talking about mexico in the context of immigration -- what about trade with mexico? i do not believe arizona has a trade-off. what is the plan for developing trade with mexico? name two or three specific opportunities.

>> they are our largest trading partner, times four. this is a great opportunity. we are perfectly geographically positioned. next possibly the worst run state in the nation, california, which is pushing people, producers, and businesses out. a relationship with the governor of sonora, with the governor of sinaloa, and the president of mexico, with a trade office. it is not just symbolic. whiche a port in nogales is world-class. it is an opportunity for us to build infrastructure, so when the good guys are coming across, the trucks, the transit, the tourism, they feel welcome to america and welcome to arizona. this is our natural relationship. way to jumpstart our southern economy. pima county, cochise, santa cruz

are in a much better position than we are feeling in maricopa. i think pulling the target off page outort, taking a of texas will dramatically affect our economy in a positive direction. >> we have to embrace mexico in a big way. i touched on earlier. there is more to be done than mariposa's port. that is, at the moment, a real bottleneck. this port is a huge opportunity to move goods north, east, and west. cargo capacity at our airports. we need to look at this as an architectural design. cost-effective, efficient ways for mexican goods to come, and to rebuild the mexican tourist traffic, the disappearance of which has decimated so many towns in tucson and southern arizona. >> a question i would like to ask -- is there anything the other side is saying about you which you feel is flat out wrong? doug ducey.

one thing. just one. [laughter] that coldjust say stone creamery is an american success story that started right here in arizona. 1440 ice cream stores operating in all 50 states. today, it operates in 25 countries around the world, and it is something -- i am most proud of my wife angela and my three sons, and after that i am most proud of cold stone creamery. >> what have people said that is wrong? >> everybody watching tv sees what folks are saying about cold stone creamery. >> i am proud of my family, certainly, and i do find it somewhat disingenuous that there is this barrage of partisan attack ads about this issue in the board of regents when we were faced with this $400 million cut.

context, it is a half-baked ad. it is the nature of politics. i get it. i issued a dark money challenge a few months ago. let's call out these folks. let's have this kind of debate, where we mix it up and visions of arizona. unfortunately, that is not what is happening. >> cities have big beefs with the legislature. they have lost a lot of funding over the last several years. what would you do to restore their revenue? >> i would build a relationship. i saw mayor lewis -- i have gotten to know mayor smith through the course of the campaign. i reach out to these mayors who are doing a national job. somebody who believes in a limited government -- the last thing i want to do is dictate to our cities from the state capital. i do not want the federal government dictating to our states from washington.

we have well-run city councils that want to get these things done. their funding and their programs -- let them do what they need to do. mayors.ld work with the i worked with mayors in many issues there my time building the phoenix freeway. important issue between the cities, counties, and states -- we are devastating our infrastructure. we are so far behind. it has got to be a priority that we stop this. if we were to repeal the income tax, the deficit would be even greater. you cannot do that. we have to make sure cities and towns have the resources to assure there is public safety, road repair, and highway growth to support our business. >> that brings us to our questions. each candidate has a minute for a closing statement. we did flip a coin at the outset. , you go first.

>> i want to thank everyone for putting on this forum tonight. it was a good day in the ducey campaign when we learned the national federation of independent businesses i have been your state treasurer for nearly four years. by any measure, we are in better condition today than they were when i came into office. i want to take those skills and fresh entrepreneurial energy to the governor's office. the reason i want you to vote for me is the plan of action that i have for our state. i want to kickstart our economy