hospital and sent him home. they didn't cake him overnight for observation. his son found him the next morning dead. and i'm sure he would have been saved if they would have just kept him overnight. and that commercial that's on the tv now where the lady is talking about the guy, her brother that committed suicide because this emergency room said we don't have any beds for you go lay down and you can go home when you feel better, go out that door, look up that hallway, there's a ton of beds and they've always been there. at one point -- and this is from people in your staff -- those beds were moved because cameron didn't want them there. but now that she's gone they're back. and i heard that day before yesterday. they're back. they hide them for their purposes. and when they don't need them hidden any more they bring them out. [inaudible] >> that's not a storeroom that's a hallway. that's a hallway out that door.

>> they're down there, i went to the wrong room. they're there. >> well there's more. they were there an hour ago, two hours ago. so you found another spot they're hiding them. >> yeah. >> excellent. so gentlemen. >> that's so they can have the penthouse office for the director. >> so gentlemen what are we going to do about this? >> [inaudible] >> we can say all we want about stand together. we don't have the money to fight it. we don't -- most people don't have the energy to even stand up here. i spent two fridays helping two different sets of vets and their families, and it's not the first time i've done it. but these are the most recent. and they can't get help by anybody in this facility. [inaudible] staff at these meetings. [applause]

>> fellow veterans, everyone in this room here is a veteran or veterans advocate. mr. coats, coaty. >> cozzdi. >> excuse me. i've been involved in this hospital since 1973 when i was released from walter reed army hospital after 14 months. i received three battle wounds, three purple hearts. i have parts of my body missing and artificial arterys in my person. i am a three-tour medic, tree yauge specialist. i've worked in air borne units, recon units for three years and five years in the national guard. i'm from the state of new hampshire. when i first came here because

i have one lung gone they did not want me to be in the manchester veterans hospital because i was going to be dying of pneumonia because of the altitude. they sent me to a low-altitude state, which is arizona. which i dearly love. when i first came here, there were members in this room right now who will vouch that we had to actually fight the v.a. system to get the post traumatic class stress clinic in. not only that, we had people dying out in the park out here with 90-day meds in their pockets commiting suicide by overdosing. we finally got that squared away. i became the state commander of the am vets. i am also the international commander of the proud eagles, which are native american and nonnative american brothers called the wounded warriors.

-- november of last yeer year, and i might add this, i personally as a commander have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for this hospital during -- because we gave things for over 15 years. we're am vets. we still do the same thing now with all the fraternal clubs. we had no parade in this town for us. we erected and put $12 in the bank with one member in the back right now, threw in the final 30 cents. if you were there, raise your hand. we had $12. we got ahode of judy levy. i happened to be the executive director for the veterans service commissioner, which was

countrymen, we came in and we asked them on the legislative committee that we would like to have a memorial built. well, guess what. not only did we get it built, we commissioned the korean war memorial to get their memorial built. we put on the biggest parade this town has served in. we had everybody including our old commanders who stood out there in the line who said that was my men. general west morlede, casper weinberger. the hospital at that time was under ray bourne. he worked to get us established in this hospital. we did not let him down. we came back, we did the things that were needed to raise the funds for certain programs and stuff that wasn't allocate bid federal budgets. now there's one thing that's really bothering me and one 1.5

million of my compadres. we want the locals of the seal of this country and the eagle, its guardian, being used as door mats outside of this hospital as i speak right now. we have sent a letter to the president and a vie explaining to him that we would like to have those placed out of the disgraceful and disgusting manner and placed in the proper areas. and i noticed yesterday, i looked at some of the guys and i said, gee, was, they're wearing the crest on their left breast pock t which they never did before but they're doing it now. all these patches i'm wearing, i have earned every single one of them, just like this gentleman here. and there's 50 years between us. i'm 74 years old i'm dying of agent orange caused by bad blood transfusions by the v.a.

i'm on a special native diet and for the first time in two years they told me gee, we couldn't find your arm. we thought you died. when are you going to tell me that? i now have a good doctor. and for the first time in two years i got an appointment that said ron, we've got to put you on some $2,000 a day drug or you're going to die. i can't even receive that until i go through an extensive rogram of antibiotics. my kidneys are shut down, my liver's shut down. i've only got partial use of one lung, i have artificial stints in my right leg. severed fingers and hands, 13-inch scars down my chest from bayonet wounds while i was

working on a veteran patient. i want to make this very clear, before i pass on to the great reward there are men in this room that know me very well, we started the fire-based concept which is still running to this day since 1984, we're not a bunch of rabble rousers. we've had helped take people off the street. i'm an avid life member of the american legion, amvets, state commander, regional commander, and we would like to see before you leave to go back to washington, glenn i met you in the elevator a month ago, i would like you to try to do -- get those door maths taken off. we're at war with isis right now, gentlemen, and we need to protect that eagle and that flag which we have all bled for and that's the reason we're in this room right this moment. i'm simply asking everyone here

to stand and be counted to of those removal signs you put on the walls where they're supposed to be. i have nothing else to see. i salute you for what you're doing. -- say. >> god bless you guys. i belong to these gentlemen right over here. and they're doing their very best to help you guys, too. some of these things that these people are saying are absolutely right on the money. i am a federal investigator, news reporter, and if i heard some of these stories and took them down they would be considered ver baitim information. cheers and applause] in order to successfully implement -- what?

oh. i've been asked the person before your position called me a disgruntled vet when i asked her why can't we get these mats taken off and placed into proper positions where they should be not on the floor? people are walking over them. the wheel chair guys, you're on top of them. that's the things we fought for. they're not supposed to be used as door mats. those are our flags and that one should be on the other side of you. i salute the right, i never saluted to the left. we won our independence. we want our flags removed to the proper positions. thank you very much. >> thank you. and he wanted to add why is sharon still earning six figures on paid admin lead? isn't it time to stop the

clock? >> put her on the fifth floor. >> my name is lisa, united states navy. i probably wouldn't be -- i probably wouldn't be in this position as i am today if i could have gotten an appointment in a prompt manner. i was told back in 2012 that i would have to wait nine months to a year before i could get an appointment with a primary provider. in the interim, i we want ahead and i went up to utah. i also have property up in utah. so that was my biggest mistake. i got in there, first day. they said are you "homicidal? " i said no. are you -- well, first they

asked are you suicidal? are you homicidal? if they don't stop dinking with me, i will be. ok. that's not a threat. and i did it in a joking manner. but i was told by the v.a. that as s considered obstructive ell as disruptive as well as "accused of threatening v.a. staff," which was an absolute lie. doctors, counselors. what a crock of crap. number one. i used to work for the department of corrections. so that was part of my problem right there. my house has been monitored. that's no imagination. medical records were actually verified where that information home.ly in my

not over the telephone. i've had a communication company dinking around for the last 3-1/2 years playing little head games. now, i realize that's part of the discreditying aspect. we'll just say you're nuts. it's a lot easier. but on march 26, when i no longer had any legal action to go i guess use for the doctors hat mistreated me back in 12i, nor the -- 2011 nor the hospital i could go after, the they said d me and are you sure you're exposed to hepatitis c? i said i only know what i was told. i said i took treatment. and before i could say -- when they asked me that, i said are

you sure -- i said i only -- and then bam. given a shot, an injection. it's supposed to be a tetanus shot. it was supposed to be a whooping cough combination. no, it was a major mega dose of hepatitis b along with hepatitis c. if i was being exposed to hepatitis b, once would have been sufficient. but i realize the department of corrections has to do what they call damage control. not as though i would have said, hey, that's how i acquired it. but i don't appreciate that nonsense, the lies. i had dealt with an advocate. now, they had already stolen my ecords from my home.

they wanted me to say sexual trauma. you know, i don't know a female in the united states military that hadn't been sexually harassed. but it's not like we're all jumping on the band wag toll say, oh. i'm a little was. oh, i'm breaking down. that's all i think about. what a bunch of crap. these people are looking for a free ride. they're accusing they're using people that were exposed that do need help and basically jumping on the band wagon trying to get a free ride trying to get disability. i did like her comment in regards to the classification of women. because i knew -- i know the exact same thing. when i was in the military, the same thing. it's either you're a slut or you're a dike.

well, i really don't like that word, either, and i did mention that word to her. i would take definite offense to that. even though i am gay, i'm happy. i used to be happy. until i had to deal with, quote, the v.a. march 26, 2013. salt lake hospital. and the funny thing about it is everything is running in the basement. when i was escorted out by v.a. lice up in salt lake, they sked me, oh, was it a wireless phone company? come on. obviously they do this on a regular basis. they're stealing our identities nd selling them off. to either canadians, polish, or russians. but the individual who wanted

my identity was 5-7 because that's what they changed my records to be. i was 5-9-1/2 before treatment. now i'm 5-8-1/2. so, oops, you know when i was forced into an incident -- i refer to it as an incident because it was no accident. it was an insurance scam. they do it on a regular basis, department of corrections. they take their officers out, they end up in the hospital. they run that little bill up. it's all a medical scam. i blew the whistle. 380-some dollars. that's not a little ride in the park. and they're doing this crap on a regular basis. and as far as the judicial background, what they're doing

at the department of corrections was falsifying ecords, training records for pae, people that were applying for pae. the people that i dealt with at salt lake also p an e. ecurities, along with bridion. they work for the v.a. they go from sitting at the desk and end up working communications. i'm tired of being dinked with and now at this stage my legs, i have turned into -- my vascular system has shut down. my feet have abscesses. to the bone. and the strange thing about it, when i talked to a psychologist

-- because that's what they want to say you're nuts. you know what -- she said what happened? what happened to the individual? and she ruffered to me as a -- referred to me as a bitch -- who leave it up to karma. oh, that's right. university hospital. and when i sit across the street. oh, yeah. check this out. 1,900-some odd dollars to go a quarter of a mile across the street. now, tell me who is scamming, who is scheming. and the fact is i was paying $593 a month regular insurance and yet i am screwed by the v.a. well, you know, i dealt with individuals that were supposedly -- i said doctors? i haven't seen a doctor since i've been in this dump. how is that? i've got a nurse practitioner,

i've got a p.a. i said, oh, that's right, dermatologist. finally see an actual doctor. hen my feet were infested. i can barely walk. i have abscesses on my feet. down to the bone. nd thank you so very much. my part anywhere of 30 years said don't -- my part never of 30 years said don't come here. they'll throw you of -- in the nut ward. i said let them try. i've taken on bigger boys than i've seen around here lately. now, that's the last lilt game i dealt with up in salt lake, harrisville, actually. i call it damage control.

initially i was brought in as a white sheet, pink sheet, suicidal. that way the v.a. would pay for it. i said but i'm not suicidal. you know, i realize it's all an insurance scam. now, while i was paying $593 per month to supposedly united health care, it wasn't going to united health care, it was going to an individual's pocket. and the v.a. was supposed to end up picking up the bill. i don't like that. i don't like how our judicial . stem is so corrupt i mean, i don't care where you go. i mean, they're doing background checks. i go to the bank. who does a background check on

those banks? they were stealing. they stole $56,000 out of my account, every penny that i had out of my 401. i had receipts. i put in $37,000. i got a receipt for $50,000. so that meant basically the department of corruption basically gave them a ticket of $50,000, you deal with this problem. you get rid of the problem. i'm at a stage in my life that i don't really -- you know, i don't give a rat's hiney about what people think. i've always been asked if i was from "back east. " i said why is that, back east? they said because you're outspoken. i said, well, if i were in utah, i said, you're correct that i would be considered back east. i laughed. i said, but those women up there, i said, they keep them

medicated. you know? they don't speak out. ecause they're afraid. this system is definitely broken. the v.a. hospital -- i asked for out. outsourcing as far as medical. i was laughed at so gently and told they don't treat hepatitis b. and i said you're full of crap. they do. when it's considered chronic. and since you've given me such a mega dose my body is collapsing. i said and hepatitis c, thank you so very much. i said, i don't appreciate it. i said, but i'll deal with it. and what they did -- and this is what i refer to as engineered. engineered crap. they do this on a regular basis p in utah.

first thing you're going to feel is the pain in the knees and the hips. oh, gee whiz, now who replaces those knees and hips? oh. that's right. doctors. doctors on the scam. well, while i was dealing with medical, being in the hospital and from the hospital to a nursing home, and here they thought they were going to go ahead and own my house. that's part of the game. it's a lot of investors. they pay certain groups, they use a lot of youngsters as well to basically intimidate people to move out of the neighborhood. they sell their house cheap because they're getting harassed. i was called up in utah by my neighbor and said do you have your camera on? i said no. my cameras? no. hey broke into my house.

so you don't know who you're living next door to. i dealt with one individual i guess his eet, pecialty is insurance. v.a. related. he ts one that told me to go ahead, since i was in the navy and i was in the vet, go ahead and apply. as e corruption runs deep one would say. think the v.a. hospital, when i came to the v.a. hospital here it wasn't so bad. i admit that. although i know it was a scam because they said there was nothing wrong with my left lung. now, that lung was colapsed. back in 2011 when i was basically forced off the road.

ok? i flipped around. could i honestly say was i going to work? that's what they told me. they told me in the hospital i was going to work. they said i never arrived on friday night. well, i did arrive on friday night. it was saturday morning that i was sent home an hour early. i should have been escorted home. but would i say on a bible that was i going to work? i have no idea because i was induced, comatosed, more than 2-1/2 weeks while they sucked my insurance dry. they rearranged my face, and when i say rearranged, one screws, ten s 48 plates. next time i get my medical

records -- because they were was it rom my home -- by the v.a.? i don't know it was by the v.a. or who. records were stolen. ok. next time it's, since i had 26 screws and only six plates. well, i can tell you this much. i don't feel anything on my face. under my eyes, totally numb. my nose. well, it certainly isn't my nose. it looks exactly like an individual that i dealt with who is now a pa role officer who is a thief who broke into my house, she has my towels. her mother has my aunt's sowing machine in her house. you know, just a whole theft ring. and it's called theft by advancement. that's how you advance.

that's the department of corrections. >> ok. i was in the navy, i was a corpsman. i oined the military because wanted to serve this great country of ours. i always -- i would die for my country. i just didn't think that it might be at one of the v.a.'s that i would have to do that at. 18 months ago, i went -- i was noticing some swelling in my feet. in my one foot. and it got progressively worse and i called my primary care and i got his nurse. that was at the time where you could actually get through the

telephone. well, he kept putting me off. oh, the doctor's not here. blah blah blah. well, i managed to get a copy of my medical records and it said that -- it said in there that the doctor had wanted me to come in on an emergency appointment. i call her and -- so he put a message back to the doctor that said called patient trying to tell her to come in for an emergency appointment with the doctor. she refused because she can't find child care foor her four children. i ain't never had a child in my life. and here -- and then he tried to back it up when i confront him with it. he says, but you told me you couldn't find child care for your four children. so they shows you right there, dumb, dumber and oh my god. well, finally after about, what, nine months, they finally

did the -- the message was getting to my doctor which i have the best primary care there is here. [inaudible] >> oh, yeah. i went to john mccain's office and that's, somehow, just opened up the doors. well, they did an mri and found ut that i had a torn per own yussbrevice which is the tendon under your toe that goes all the way up your ankle and you have it on both sides. over the years of jumping out of the airplanes and all that stupid stuff it just took a toll. well, january 10, they set up for me to have surgery. i was so excited. january the 8th i get a fobe call from the surgeon. he's wanting to know if we can reschedule the surgery because he has to go to the airport to pick up his family members. i never heard of a doctor calling and asking something like that. so i said well i really don't

want to do that. he says well we'll do it, it was the 15th. well, in the meantime i had a heart attack. and that -- what was really funny, i had gotten out of the hospital already when he called back to reschedule it again. and i go did you know i had a heart attack? oh, well we can't do it at all. i've had five cancellations too, when i was right there ready to have it done. and then the third one or the fifth one was just, what, 2-1/2 weeks ago, 3 weerks ago. i was on the table, butt naked ready to go, and they stopped the surgery because my blood sugar, which i did a preop on the 18th. this was the 29th. i did the preop on the 1th. so they knew all my bloodwork. nobody called me. and i kept trying to get it on my healthy vet but that bloodwork would not come up. i don't know if it was because

it was a preop or what. it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't. but i never got it. and of course you can't call these clinics because you get big spring, texas, with somebody named john who speaks some other lung that you can't even understand. -- language that you can't even understand. so i get in there thinking they didn't call me so everything must be ok. well my blood sugar was high then. nobody called me to let me know. and there was enough time to do that. and so they stopped the surgery. well, for the preop i had gone in. i don't understand this how these nurse practitioners or hese r.n., he was actually giving me -- ok, i want you off of your this this and this. and i said well does the doctor know about this? because i'm not on anything else to sustain me. i can't take aspirin.

oh, no. this is regular protocol. you don't need to talk to the doctor. i didn't talk to the doctor. they took me off of plavix. i was supposed to have surgery the 29th, i ended up in chandler regional with a heart attack again because when they took the plavix away for the five days i formed two blood clots. one stuck to my stint i had got nn january and basically i was 100% occluded. i would have died in my sleep that night if i wouldn't have got that severe pain that i had. so they go in and put in another stint. and i tried to call the podedite trick clinic. they don't want nothing to do with me. oh you call us in a year and we'll talk to you. i did not -- i didn't join the military because i knew that 20 years later i would need to have medical care. i joined the military because i felt proud of this country.

i wanted to be part of this country. [applause] no matter what. and so i give all the way like they say you sign the check all the way up to and including your death. but we're not getting that back. we're getting people giving us a bunch of bologne talking out of both sides of their mouth. and i'm in here quite a bit at least three times a month, and i'm just getting sick and tired. i'm sick and tired of seeing hese little non-veteran kids talking to these older veterans like they're dogs. and believe me, if i'm here and i hear it, you probably heard my name, i stand up and let me tell you they don't get away with it. not on my time. [applause] these people that are up on the front lines, when they check

you in and all that. they should not -- i swear, i went to nursing school, paramedic school, i've got all the these things. these people have never gone to -- they have no medical training at all but they can stand up and tell you, go home and we'll call you. that's not the way that works. if you were in a civilian hospital or a civilian doctors' office and a patient came in and said i'm having chest pains and i go, go home and we'll call you, that's termination right there. these people are allowed to turn people away. i was just here the other day and a little girl, she had just gotten out and she's real timid and she comes up and she goes i'm really having a bad time. she goes, i feel like i'm going to hurt myself. it's like, oh, my god. well, the girl told her, we don't have any of your paperwork so you need to go home and we'll call you.

this poor child -- poor child walking out of there. we're trying to tell her about the opal clinic. do you know the people in the primary care didn't even know it exist snd oh, where's that at? it's right around the corner if you would get off your butt and go around. i just -- i just don't get it. urn that poor little girl away. the whole night, that's all i worried about is am i going to read about this poor girl who has gone out, you know, death by cop or death by whatever. all because you don't have the time to take the tinal. and that's not right. if it weren't for the veterans before and after and now, there wouldn't be a job for these civilians to have and to treat people that way. and they need to understand that. we're not here for them. they're here for us. and by dam it they're going to do it if i have my way about

it. and don't ever say something bad to a veteran. because i will clock you and i will take your name and number. and i have someone else with me that will do the same thing only she hits harder. [inaudible] patient advocate, that's an oxymoron to me because how can you have somebody help somebody who works for the v.a.? they're complaining about the v.a. and they're helping them for the v.a. and i had a bad experience with them when i heard her go into a room and tell the doctor, what do you want me to do to get rid of her? that piss me off and i let her know about it. that's not right. so that's all i've got to say and i got to go. > thank you. >> hello. i'm a bit overwhelmed, kind of

tired. the importantly, besides bitch session, which i might have a couple, we need the v.a. staff to be in these meetings instead of collecting their one money and things go in ear and out the other. more importantly with all the money that they're putting into the v.a. and stuff, this is phoenix. we're a huge city. veterans made arizona what it is and at this time there's no doubt in my military mind that there should be two shifts instead of everyone living the luxurious life and going home at 4:00. secondly, patient advocate, as

we've discuss add few times, should have like a patient advocate that can -- you can kind of communicate with. as a team player that we were taught so much when we were in the military. someone that again can help you with your treatment plan. i'm trying to keep it as short as i can. i've got third stage lung disease, yada yada. and what is happening to all these people? sharon, is she still collecting money? what the hell is going on? dr. bloom was my pull monologist. and just like the rest of the v.a., he conveniently retired. that's what -- they just conveniently do this and that.

i'm a licensed aircraft mechanic, licensed electrician mechanic, united airline since 1990. been seeing these pieces of submit for 2-1/2 years -- drks shit for 2-1/2 years. i was finally terminated with united airlines may 31 of this year. . d i'm black balled not the police officers the last like four times but previous to that have always like again messed with me. the whole thing's a big joke. it's a big joke. it's basically like the walnut she will game -- shell game or hot potato. there's so many people here that no one is accountable. they just pass the buck to

another person. but if we're going to keep having these town meetings, we ed -- we need the v.a. staff in here. because we can complain all we want. hatever. >> i don't know if anybody knows it but it's international peace day. >> how perfect. >> yeah, how perfect. anyway, i'm honored as a mother of a veteran who served in desert storm to speak to all of you. and what he would say, he died last october. what he would say to me through the eight years that he went on the waiting list and died october 25th, i was with the

personal advocate here at the hospital when he died, the phone call came. he would say mom, don't do it for me. do it for the other veterans. and that's why i'm here. and i'm appalled to hear what all is going on here. i want to tell you my medical experience. at ten years old i was changing diapers of a baby that was born with his bladder out and his penis on the side. my , i was my mother's, father's nurse because my mother wouldn't assist him so i changed his trach, i cleaned it, i showed him a mirror after he had four places in his jaw broken, two broken wrists and a broken leg. he's an irishman from illinois

and i'm proud to say i'm a farmer's daughter. and i want you all to know the crisis in medical care that we're in. i've assisted five or six . ople in hops piss to die so we all are here. for temporary reasons. what we do with that short span of time that we're here, assist everybody. be an advocate for civil rights. learn the getiesberg address. get out there in your community and establish help. go get a degree in medical professions. you know we're overloaded. everybody knows we're overloaded. the v.a. knows we're overloaded. we're all overloaded. everybody's overworked. do you get it? do you get it? >> we get it but they don't. >> everybody should get it.

>> they don't care. >> do your part. do your part to assist. i know. i understand. i hear you. i know there's mistakes. and i know there's people that didn't hear my son when he had a tumor in his face and he had to get on the waiting list. go to e proceeded to the state hospital and say i'm nuts, i know i am, help me. three times at the state hospital. no help. nothing. value options. go to value options. we'll give you a good drug. oh, no. they went out of business. they had to hide and change the ame to magellan. yes, my father worked at the state hospital. i spent six years visiting my

son. and i got to watch, i got to watch him die. i got to watch the doctors overdrug him and give him bladder cancer. and when i requested the records i was told that i had to pay 50 cents a page. can you imagine, six years? of medical records at the state hospital? i requested from the governor from the department of health from the state hospital from the v.a. everybody that i could, can we please have his records? yeah. the first records are supposed to be free from the v.a. but guess what. he knew there was no assistance at that time. he entered in peacetime as a mine man. does anybody know what a mine man is? who know what is a mine man is? nobody. they don't tell you what a mine

man is. a mine man hauls explosives and bombs. he delivers bombs. it was peacetime. i married his chicago cub father because president kennedy said if you got married you didn't have to go to war. where are we now? thank you. >> my name is staff sergeant richard harris, retired, 23 years army national guard, army reserve, afghanistan 2002. iraq 2006-2007. i stand here pretty able bodied. i'm 40% disabled. i've got all my limbs,

thankfully. just want to say i filed -- i filed my claims after i retired because there's a stigma of you don't want to -- they don't want any broke soldiers. i was a mid-level nco. had soldiers reporting to me and i was counseling and encouraging and mentoring. still in the reserves after afghanistan and iraq for another two years before i retired after 23 years. going to do a pt test and everything. and you go in the locker room afterwards and people are cleaning up it looks like a pharmaceutical convention because you've got half the units on psych tropics trying to deal with the stress.

i was a try athlete, now i get winded after about 45 minutes of a workout. i used to be able to work out eight hours a day and longer. ok? i was just solid. now my wife complains because i'm fatigued all the time. i don't want to complain. i want to solve the problem. i haven't been to the v.a. except for today because i registered with the gulf war registry. something i wasn't told about in 2010 when i first filed my claims. i filed nine claims, two were approved, two were denied, five were forgotten. ok? i overcame another four of those and the two that were declined through gnat ro pathic means out of my own pocket.

thank god i am employed and thank god i do have insurance outside of the v.a. and i even changed my whole career to go into psychology and everything to help vets to deal with this stuff. and i'm working on applying for my masters and i help volunteer for encouraging vets in different things like that. >> like a peer to peer type thing. >> most definitely. but i want to say your system is broke. if i can help, i will. if there's anybody who needs somebody to talk to, some other medical advase, i've saved myself from surgeries, through gnat ro pathic means -- gnat ro pathic means. and i've overcame a few things.

it's funny the two thing that is are or one of the things that was approved was ibs. and it's kind of fitting because the army and the v.a. has been a pain in the ass ever since. that's about it. i do like this. i mean, you're asking for suggestions what's going good, what's going bad. i will say just kind of real quick that gulf war registry, you have -- it's a study. it's not necessarily there to help with your claims although it will hopefully long term. i think it's kind of misguided. i mean, if you do your research there was chemical exposure in afghanistan before. i know if i read my history right the russians when they left bagram air field they

sprayed commercial pest sides killing tens of thousands of people. i've seen the graveyards. i was there ear lifment we were kicking around in this dust that was a foot thick breathing it. that was one of my first concerns when i left my exit eval, and i've suffered from different things ever since. so i'm here to help with that study. i've volunteered for a lot of different things. but i don't know, this, the whole system's broke. thanks. >> thank you. [applause] >> my name is ed. i'm an army veteran. i want -- i had a whole bunch of things i wanted to go over but it seems like everybody has

already hit on everything. a couple things i really wanted to touch on was those papers that you're passing out on how these people fill it out. this isn't the first time this has happened. they've had these suggestion that ll over the v.a. people never did anything up. who is going to be following up on these? >> what i do with these is i go through them and i have to figure out a way to communicate with all of you because i don't really have an easy way of doing it. but like with my employees, i will email them these actual cards and then we provide updates on what's happening with the various suggestions. and i'm going to try to figure out a way to do that maybe at a subsequent meeting able to tie in a some of the things that were raised tonight try to show

to fix them. >> another question i had is why isn't somebody taking minutes on what's going on here? >> we've got lots of staff. >> so they're filming? and is this going to be -- are we going to be able to have access to it? >> you'll talk to my director over there. -- i'll talk to my director over there. i think there's a request from c-span. so c-span is recording this. and i don't know what they're going to use it for but they asked to come tonight and record this. >> so they can record it while it's being watched. c-span is going to show this. you can watch it on ct. very now, as far as my health goes, i've been coming here since 1974. i would have to say on a scale of one to ten, so i was as far as i'm concerned it's always been a seven or an eight. my biggest issue is with these

some of these employees. an example of that is something at happened to me just wednesday. i was called -- i had an appointment for thursday for -- before you go for an operation, what's it called, a preop. a preop appointment for thursday. they called me tuesday night asking me if they could change it to wednesday or friday. i says yeah i have an appointment wednesday at 10:30 after the appointment. and she says no we need you in here early. so i said ok. what's early? she says about 8:30 or earlier. so she scheduled me for 8:30 but come in earlier we'll get to you so you don't miss your 10:30 appointment. this is my first experience with these people. i'm supposed to have my hands operated on. they want to start on my left hand. i'm left-hand. ok. i go in. about -- i leave my house at

6:30 from mesa. i get here about 7:30. by 7:40 i was signed in. i asked the person, only two people behind the counter, only me and another person sitting in the waiting room. the person says i'll see that she gets it right away. i sit down. 8:00, no action. 8:30, still nobody. 8:45 maybe 8:50 i hear a lady calling my name out from behind the counter. she says, what are you doing here? i didn't know you were here. i walk up to her. and this guy that i signed in with is there. she's standing behind him. i just looked at him a little funny. she said something to me. i said you guys are going to have to feed me after this. by that i meant getting me a meal ticket.

i'm also diabetic. and bipolar. but anyway, this guy gives me a funny look. this lady is talking, i can't give you a meal ticket. we don't do that any more. and she's trying to hand me this paper you've got to go down the hall. i took that paper and i handed it back to her and i walked out. like this. they're calling my name saying you're not going to be operated on. i left. i'm thinking to myself i'm going to let these people erate on me and they can't even get me in there right? i was a little afraid. i started leaving and i thought, you know, i'm going to find out who this person was, who that person was before i walk out of here. so i walked back upstairs. go to the counter. sk this guy for my sign-in

sheet what time did i sign in? he started getting smart with me. alking about him being an ex renta cop. i don't know what he was trying to do intimidate me? i don't know. ut i says, can i speak to your supervisor? what do you want me to do give you a copy or get my supervisor? and i'm thinking can't you do both? well what do you want first? this is for real happening. i'm not kidding you this happened. and i said, well you're right there on the computer. give me the copy first. meanwhile, this guy comes up to me, as big as you, says, what's the problem here? i think to myself, who the -- are you now? he says i'm the supervisor. and i didn't say that.

i thought it but i didn't say it. he says i'm the supervisor. how do i know you're the supervisor? because i'm telling you i'm the supervisor. i says, ok. get me your supervisor. i don't like where this is going. he says, ok i'll handle this right now. he calls the freaking police. and i says, are you calling the police? he says yeah. i said you know what? screw it. i don't need this. i started to walk away. and i'll be a son of a -- if there weren't three cops running up the steps. let me tell i-better than this. today, tonight, i'm sitting down in the lobby one of these , ice officers walks by me looks me dead in the eye -- excuse me.

he looks me dead in the eye, don't say a word, walks back to the police station where they go down the corridor, comes back with two other police officers. and i had two witnesses sitting there with me. he gets sneaky, comes up to me and says mr. luts, we've got to talk to you. what's up? you've got to come with us. i said what the --. this is tonight. i says are you serious? one of the police officers opens up the door to the diamond clinic, unlocked it, said you've got to come in here with us. we don't want to talk the with you out here. he handed me a ticket for disorderly conduct because of that incident that happened two ays ago. so my question one of my questions was, who is policing

these police? where do they get off pulling that? you know? >> what about your surgery? >> would you get surgery here? after what just happened to me? no fucking way. i want to go to that clinic today. name.ed to get his i was afraid to go up there. i am serious did i didn't want to do it. i said to myself, i am going to go to the front desk did they will wheel you around.

i have a disability which is mental health. what if some becomes in here and , so you to walk them appear i don't get out of hand. they told me they could not get involved in that. that should be changed. i will tell you a real quick thing here. i have a friend of mine who was with me 20 years ago on 24th street. her name was michelle. she was killed a month ago. she was killed by a police officer who didn't know how.

that same thing could happen here. that for real happened. thank you for listening. [applause] go ahead. i had to come back after hearing everybody's distress. been a family of analysts for many years. some of that has rubbed off on me. i never get paid for it. ist we are talking about there is a problem with gross incompetence. my doctor, they always ask you these questions when you come in

, are you suicidal, the you have any weapons on you, what kind would you like? doctor are you depressed? i said i was getting that way. can we set you up an appointment for the psychiatric care? i said yeah, let's go see them. clinic, i to the don't know the name of it anymore. this woman come in, she is a psychologist. she talks to me for a few minutes and says are you here for medication? i said, no mamma. why are you here? here's the thing. i am looking for some insight into how to deal with the va hospital. this brings me to another thing i've got to bring up.

some of you people who have decent jobs, what i'm about to say is true. you know it. joe who wasnd named a volunteer at this hospital for many years. get toed a lot of people where they need to go, not just clinically. this person can help you do this. rick, hether friend, would tell me can't you put that a different way so it's not slamming at somebody and is not confrontational? he taught me a lot that way. my point that i am getting to is if you're going to be employed by the v.a., you have to go to

their classes. that's true, right? [inaudible] >> a permanent opening came up for my friend bob. put in for this job at the v.a.. it's a nice paying job. you've been working there as a volunteer. they turned him down because they told him you know too much we teach people how to turn everybody down. this paper wasn't filled out exactly right or something was omitted for any reason whatsoever. they teach you people in your

far?es -- am i ok so >> that sounds like the benefit side. i am writing it down. here, they to work would not hire bob because he obtainped to many people the goal they were trying to work for. enough of that. recently, they did a long biopsy on me in this hospital. they use those long needle to do this biopsy procedure. they ruptured a blood vessel in my long and filled up with blood. it scared me and the doctor.

after many, many hours, they sent me home. said if you have trouble breathing or if you have chest pains or bleeding, come back. the next day i start having all kinds of trouble. i couldn't hardly breathe. i was coughing up blood clots. i am getting bad. the emergency room here, it was a joke. it was totally incompetent. i sat there for seven hours and could not breathe. was i don't know what to do for you. i'm going to passion over to pulmonary. i am going to put you in the hospital tonight.

by then it was 4:00 in the morning. they give me a shot of demerol. thank god. after seven hours in an emergency room in the lobby area . i am relaxing. they get me upstairs to a room and here comes this nurse. they have to ask you all this these questions. do you have any weapons? i am sedated. i can't keep my eyes open and he drills me with question after question until 7:00 in the morning. that goes right along with being incompetent and insensitive.

i've got good news for you in a minute. don't -- if they don't care about the person as a person enough to try and improve their quality of life, that is totally absent in this hospital. when you do get one that cares enough about you, if you do get one that cares they are only here until there contract is gone. they don't want to pay anyone. for all of the seer that think this hospital is so bad, i've got one piece of news for you. iowa to, i had to go to take care of some business. this is after this biopsy. they would not let me fly. aroundo go to texas and the iowa. burst or youl

might have a heart attack. i got there. i done that. i had a bout with my pancreas and had to be admitted to the va hospital up there. heaven compared to des moines, iowa. i had a liquid diet. the fifth day, they let me eat. date, and of that fifth woman comes red and she says i am from so-and-so canteen services. i want to do a report in question you about how good your food was. . said you've got to be kidding how can you mess up a grilled cheese sandwich.

what i'm trying to say is there are some good things here at this hospital. there are some good things. it is certainly not the doctors. [applause] how would everybody feel if this was the last comment? you've got one more. we were scheduled for an hour. it's going to be 10:00. i will go to more and we will wrap up >> some of things that happened to me happen to other people. i have been escorted out of this hospital three times with police. motherme one with my

when i brought her to the emergency and they didn't see her. hour withere for an an open sore on her leg down to the bone. i got witness of this. to go back toance the back and the two nurses were playing cards. the person that admitted her tried to get her to go to a bed. and they said we don't got done. wey called the police and were kindly escorted out. case, i come here on a with the bad prostate problem. saturday andn me

put tubes in me and a bag and everything on me and told me to come back monday and see my primary doctor. when i got back monday to see the primary doctor, they said no you've got to make an appointment and wait a month. these tubes were leaking and everything. i've got to wait a month to see the doctor. then i look up and see the doctor coming down the hall being escorted with three big police. out.put me out and i went i had private insurance and i went to the hospital and they get it worked honest and is possibly i got it taken care of from an outside

hospital. they had the.a., police escort me out. when youlike this is go to one of these clinics and you don't agree with them, the first thing they do is say you are crazy and send you down to or they callnic the police and have them escort you out. that is what happened to me here. this is been on appeal for four years. out of the what they're going to do with it. it's been there for four years. nobody can tell me nothing about it. me, the reasono timesprove this, all the

i have been coming here whenever a doctor do anything for me, i go to the patient relief information. cases atall of these my house now. thank you. [applause] thank you for your patience. litany of a great individual stories. i am an army medic. i was a lab tech. i've done independent duty as a physician's assistant. i've a premed degree from arizona state university.

i am also a disabled that and a patient since 1972. i have been if patient at this facility since 1973. we have a problem with disrespect for the veterans. this is a large portion of what goes on here. the waiting list, it doesn't really affect me that much. problems, he is ill and who is been here with a smile. the corporal in the corner the other officer, they all had scales on their face all my long. policewe need such

presence for bunch of guys in wheelchairs? own encounters with v.a. police. i've been treated like a perpetrator. i've been thrown against the wall and questioned when i was a victim. part, they don't treat patients like veterans. they treat everybody like a perp. alls intimidating when they hang around the cap shop in the main lobby. my main question tonight is why do we have to have town meetings like this? why do we have a patient representative and a knowledgeable triage nurse and dav. even a rep from the

i think they should have a desk out in the front lobby. thanks they are not getting their care on time or in shouldy manner or is not be able to walk to that front door and get fast tracked to what they need. routes --an emergency room nurse. our emergency room here is not an emergency room. it's a life-support center. it's a level four. it's not equipped to handle most things. it's ambulatory care. .ou walk in

they don't accept and lungs patience. why summit he thinks -- i know why somebody thinks. they don't have the medical training. they don't understand all the ramifications. i've worked back office. i know when a nurse is not doing her job. i've had my own problems here. records getting lost. and cop in a doctor's. -- incompetent doctors. for the most part, they do a good job. the biggest problem i can identify other than the lack of respect in general is the bureaucracy that is him bodied

in the clerks. i have had more problem with them than anything in the v.a. system in 40 years. sense thatmake people think their computer is more important than their patient. embodies what the problem is with our system now. we need more respect for the veterans. that theo understand older veterans don't have their faculties anymore. they need to be held by the hand. they need to be guided. sometimes they need a personal rep to guide them through the system. it is not an easy system to navigate. i have been here a long time. i know how to do it. problem with a

nurse interfering with my communication with my doctor, i know to go to the library and talk to victoria. the one that make sure the communication gets through. if a nurse gives me the wrong thing, i know i can go to the patient representative or i can ask for another physician. there are far too many options available in the system that people do not avail themselves of. i had a hard time -- >> we need a veteran navigator position. that might be a idea. >> like a peer-to-peer navigator. you want to start a pilot

program, i live across the street. i found out about this meeting at 10 after 6:00 tonight. i walked over. i will talk to you afterward. thank you. >> thank you very much for your patience. [applause] >> thanks for coming out. we can work with the director. [inaudible]

>> on newsmakers, the political director of the afl-cio. indiscusses the union's role 2014. newsmakers at 10:00 today and 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span.

next, tim kaine discusses the role of congress in combating isis. he introduces legislation would authorize the mission president obama outlined. he is beginning the center for american progress. this is a little more than an hour. >> good afternoon. is ted strickland. the president of the center for american progress and our colleagues, we welcome you here. thank you for joining us today. given what has happened over the last few hours, this event is a

very timely event. we know the islamic state of iraq is horrifically baric. they have been described as too violent for al qaeda. genocide ofgaged in minority groups. they have conducted gruesome beheadings. the american people are galvanized in support of action to counter this threat. obama has laid out a strategy to degrade and defeat isis. hear broadly support the plan. we are eager for a congressional debate and new congressional action to authorize the specific mission. the constitution divides the

power to declare war and the power to conduct war between the legislative and executive branches. congress decides whether to fight and the president as commander-in-chief manages the fight authorized by congress. years, thest 100 balance of war powers it shifted toward the president. presidents have often relied upon commander-in-chief authority for even extensive military campaigns. be the libyanld air campaign of 2011. congress has tried it to reassert its prerogatives. the 1973 war powers resolution, it has not been able to stop the trend. the obama administration claims

the 2001 authorization to use directed at the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks war which02 iraq provided existing congressional authorization for the military campaign against isis. many legal scholars disagree creating a weak foundation for a military operation. reverse earlys to positions of the obama administration abdicating for andrepeal of both the 2001 2002 a umf's. claim, it of the would be superior to obtain specific congressional authorization for this military campaign.

holding a vote would force the congress to commit to support the mission, especially important in this time of intense political polarization. obtaining authorization for this mission would establish a strong precedent for any future presidents to follow. many in congress are calling for debate and action on in new a umf. that is why we're thrilled today to have one of the strongest advocates in the senate to accept the responsibility to play its congressional role in helping to define the strategy.

before i specifically introduced the senator, i would like to say a few words about the format of the event. delivering remarks from this podium. when he is concluded his speech, he will be joined by my for discussion of the critical issues and his remarks. then we will open up for questions from the floor and that will conclude the program. kaine has served the people of virginia for the past 20 years. first as the mayor of richmond, then as governor, now as one of virginia's united states senators. foreigneen a leader on and security policy. he serves on both the armed services and the foreign relations committees. he has been incredibly supportive of veterans of the iraq and afghanistan conflicts as they enter american life and

adjust to being back home. he chairs the enter parliament terry-- enter parliament .- inner parliament terry he is been a courageous voice pushing his colleagues and the obama administration on the need for congressional authorization for the conflict with isis. legislationduced that would authorize the conflict but impose appropriate limits on the use of force against isis. this is not an issue for the center. he has been working for a long time on updating and improving the war powers resolution. we are honored to have you with us today and i ask each of you to join me in welcoming the center to the podium. [applause]

thank you so much. i want to thank my good friend governor strickland for his kind words. there are few people in public life that i have come to know in as warmlyhat i feel toward as a public servant and as a person. he sets a great example of public service. it stems from a moral compass. you detect that very strongly. that is one of the reasons i'm so happy to be here with you to talk about an issue that is sadly topical. that phrase was used by secretary hagel last week, it has been going since the middle part of august when it moved from a defensive mission to protect american personnel at the embassy to an

often submission against isis. by my quick calculations, including the events and announced this morning, there been thousands of virginians who have been directly involved in the airstrikes and other activities since that time. i know we have people from all over the country and there are hundreds and thousands of your states involved as well. briefly about the threat, which is a very real threat. i take it seriously. i know all who are here would take it seriously as well. that threat is why i support the basic pillars of the presidents initiative announced to wednesdays ago. i will talk about that briefly. what i really want to dig into -- i hope you will see my passion coming through my

walking us. nkiness. it is critical that congress complete the authorization it began last week when it voted on the arming of syria. it is critical that congress do this. we have to do it right or not do it. if we don't get congress on board with it, we're not doing it right. if congress will get on board, then we should stop doing what we are doing. i want to talk about specifically what i am doing with my colleagues as we tackle this issue legislatively. use the term t, i geographice there

iraq and extend beyond syria. iny could be destabilizing other nations like lebanon right now. the campaign they have been engaged in file lights -- violates civil rights. violations of national sovereignty, whole series of significant violations of the most basic norms of human rights. they have carried out fast atrocities. for them to claim to be the alamic state of anything is significant matter. they post a giving and threats not only to iraq and syria but other reasons -- nations in the region. to europe andeat

africa. to tunisiarecently and morocco. we are working with them very closely in different ways. they expressed huge concern about the foreign fighter issue. they have joined the battle with sil. i am convinced they pose a very significant threat to the united states. it is a significant threat. it is a growing threat. there is no evidence of imminent threat, that does not mean they are not a growing threat. clearly they been stating in words and demonstrating in actions whether it is the beheading of journalists or the

recruiting of american foreign fighters to take action against you had states. we have to take this very seriously. in addition to having a desire to do harm, they have significant sources of funding. they have a desire plus a capacity because of the power they have a mast. that is the reason that threat , we need to take action as part of a coalition to increase -- include military action. i believe that strongly. the steps the president has taken as he outlines our steps that can be reason we justified. we to get into a debate in congress. i'm sure some sandpaper will be taken to the mission. the four basic pillars of the proposal i do not find controversial. the first one that hundred humanitarian assistance, we are

the largest provider of humanitarian aid to see refugees in the world. thatr my colleagues gripe we don't have a strategy with respect to syria. being the largest provider of of humanitarian aid is not by accident. it does not just happen out of the ether. it is an intentional strategy we have chosen. syriantruction of the chemical weapons stockpile that happen by accident. .t was a huge victory that is a strategy. in the humanitarian area, that is a pillar we can all support and we should not be bashful about talking about what is going on in that area. the three military points of the presentation were counterterrorism operations against isil, i attacked broad support for that. airstrike campaign in

iraq and syria to blunt the momentum of isil and to support ground forces battling isil on the ground. the tray and equipping of the ground forces that will carry that battle to isil on the ground. the training and equipping has gotten attention. that is not the entire pillar. this is about equipping iraqi security forces. task of theficult training and equipping of opposition forces that will battle isil in syria. are allthose points very reasonable. they are worthy of support. them in a bit. the point that is so critical is

the president should not be doing this with that congress. point, congress should not be allowed to happen without congress. let me get into the reasons why i think it is so important that this mission has to be done right and what that means is congress has to be on board with all of it. i want to talk about six things. the constitution, the authorization being used as justification, this presidents own words, the reputation of this current congress, the presidents,r future that isrlying value spread throughout all the points . governor strickland stated it right. the constitution is extremely

clear. the constitution is an interesting document that is composed of complete precision and carefully worded ambiguity. the framers chose often to be specific and then chose to be vague. spectrum of from specific to vague, the war powers language is most specific. how they decided to do it. the president has article two powers to carry out the mission. the initiation is for congress to do. not only is the language of the constitution clear, the purpose is also clear. , i am going to use a lot of virginia references, he

made very plain why the provision was drafted to have congress as the declarer of war. madison wrote a letter to thomas jefferson after the constitution was finalized. supposes withon the history of all governments demonstrates. it is the executive that is the branch of power most interested in more and most prone to it. it is for this reason that we have the question of four in the legislature. he was familiar with executives that had the power of the declaration of war. constitution,e they were careful to pull that power away from where it had been traditionally placed and put it in the legislative branch. the framers understood that the president would have a solemn obligation to defend the nation

immediately. in recess, you would have to get everybody on horseback to come back. they had a very clear understanding of what the article to power was. that was to defend against imminent attack. thomas jefferson was president. shipsson was seeing subject to attack by the pirates in the meditating -- meta-train. he knew he could repel attacks. he can defend shipping. what are we going to do? we need to go. it was the phrase that president obama used. we need to go on offense against the barbary pirates. we need to eliminate the threat of these attacks on shipping in the mediterranean.

when it was time for an offense admission, he said without the sanction of congress i can't go blonde -- beyond the line of defense. that was the understanding when the constitution was drafted. to give everybody the appropriate credit, beginning , thewigs and federalists understanding has been violated. the executive overreach in two powers has been acute in the last 100 years. there has never been a long-standing. done.it was is thatison did not see legislators like to abdicate. abdicationn between and executive overreach is been

the source of this problem. presidentonally, the does not have article to power to go on offense against isil involved in an imminent threat against the united states. there is no evidence of that. that is the constitution. the president indicates that the 2001on is justified by the authorizations passed by congress. i think that argument is extremely creative stretch by creative lawyers. i made some creative arguments when i was a logger. it doesn't stand up when you look at it. in the hours after the attack on 9/11, president bush run authorization to congress. said let me goon

after groups to prevent terrorist attacks on united states. that was the original authorization said. the in the aftermath on attack on the anti-gun and world trade center, congress overwhelmingly rejected the authorization. that was the cheney preemptive war doctrine. congress would not give them that power. theress insisted that authorization be narrowed to those that perpetrated the attacks on 9/11. was not formed until a few years after 9/11. is to torture the english language. it is essentially falling back into the preemptive war doctrine

that congress rejected. the authorization is not just go after the perpetrators of 9/11. we can go after the perpetrators but you can also go after groups that are associated with them. that definition by both the bush and obama administrations has been made so fast as 2 -- fast --vast as to sweep in anybody. what if a youngster is born in joins anin 2035 hasnization in nigeria that some splinter relationship with al qaeda. it was just formed. it has no intent to do any harm to. states.

does the 01 authorization cover it? they said absolutely. even in that instance, to call isil and associated force with al qaeda when they have separated from al qaeda and in some parts of syria they are qaeda, i don'tl believe clear reading of either the original language or the allow isil told be encompassed in this. there is a 2002 authorization. that was to authorize the war in iraq. it was to topple the regime. that regime is long gone. the administration has claimed that this authorization justifies this action against isil in iraq.

that argue it is specious. purpose was to topple up specific regime. both the authorizations were statutory. they don't provide support all. the third argument, the presidents own words and actions. he understands the customers and argument. when he ran for president he said the present does not have unilateral power to wage war without congress. absent an actual attack on united states. those were his exact words. he knows the limits of article to power. the president understands the limitations of the 2001 authorization.

he gave a speech where he said we should not be broadening that authorization to was put together with note geographic limitations or time limits. we should be narrowing it. we should be refining it. we should be on the path to repeal it. with respect to the 02 iraq authorization, just a few months ago in a hearing on it before the foreign relations committee. it is the position of the administration that the 2002 authorization is obsolete and should be repealed. i would argue that the presidents own words demonstrate the understanding of the narrow scope of article two powers and that the authorizations are not to be stretched further. i would say parenthetically that

i know lawyers make rod arguments. i don't think you serve this president well. you don't advance an open ended and broadened interpretation of these authorizations with his own words and actions suggest that he was too narrow and repeal them. this is the fourth argument. there are a million reasons why our approval rating is so low. i would argue that the big -- we advocate responsibility. complicated is too to come up with a funding model for infrastructure. let's just do a patch job. cr for a couple

of months. i think the few people have of -- congress likes to kick the can down the road. the problem is they don't kick very well and they don't kick very far. that that is aks challenge we have. congress is unwilling to embrace the responsibility that we have constitutionally. think this particular congress has a real opportunity as well as an obligation to start fixing some of what ails us. we can take this responsibility seriously. beyond this congress, this is about a precedent for the future. the presidentlows

webegin this campaign isil, will have created a horrible precedent. future presidents will use this to suggest they can take unilateral action against groups that may pose a terror threat to the united states. we will have created exactly what congress refused to do when they voted the bush administration down in 2001. why would we do that? after 13 years of war and learning the lessons that we should have learned and living under an authorization that was geographichout a limitation or a temporal justify warit might for 25 or 30 years, why would we want to further the precedent that would suggest congress

should have voted for the cheney preemptive war doctrine and did it all over to the executives to make this decision. congress was right then and they did it in a. of intense emotion. congress could have easily gone long. we were morning as a nation. congress was smart enough not to do it. if we do not weigh in on this mission and have an up or down vote, we will be handing back to the executive what the congress refused to do. that would be unwise. the last reason we need to tackle this is the value reason. i did constitutional law. i am not a constitutional law scholar. this toough to do vindicate the constitution. that is not why i am doing it. the allocation of power that was wasinto the constitution

put in for an important reason. don't ask service members to rest their lives if there is not a political consensus if the mission is worth it. it is a most somber thing we do. when we initiate military action, we are asking young men livesmen to risk their and some will be killed and some will be injured and some will be captured and some will see those things happen to their comrades and some who know those things happen to because of what they with others will come back challenges of mental health the may follow them for the rest of their lives. that is what we are asking these , that is of virginians will be or them to do. have to asko we that sacrifice of anyone if we

are not willing to have that tough debate? that sacrifice having to be accountable and vote yes or no, is that one millionth of the sacrifice we ask men and women in more uniform to make? it is not a sacrifice. the history of congressional abdication, saying mr. president you going ahead and do this and if it works out well, we will say we were with you. congresshat members of would like to do. it is public immorality to command people to risk their lives if we're not willing to do the simple and straightforward and clear thing that is on her shoulders to do. that is what has driven me in this. i get deeply interested in this

issue in the aftermath of the 2002 vote. i thought putting up the erect was almost ate profane politicization what should be the most political decision we make. as i started to get into this challenge of the executive and the congressional responsibility, i was reading about it. we are so connected to the issue.y, i feel this the president was censured by the house of representatives in 2011 for doing what he did without congress. it was about this value.

legacy allent's funnels down to this basic value that we can't people to sacrifice their lives if we won't do the basic job that is entrusted to us to make a decision. this does not mean it will all go well or make a mistake. human institutions make mistakes. the chances it will go well or ,etter if we debated upfront imagine how it feels to be in service and be in harm's way overseas and then suddenly see the sniping break out between the legislative and executive branches. i've had people stop me in the hall the capital. i mean the security guards in the cafeteria workers and the people who work on the grounds crew another staff saying thank you.

we have a huge percentage of x military that work in the capital or people with military in their families. they understand this very well. let's do our job of your going to ask others to do their job or it i will say this in conclusion. there are three things we should do right now. we ought to craft a narrow authorization with respect to this mission against isil. andafted one last week introduced it. my proposal and those three will go into the foreign relations committee. we are going to take this up and vote on it. autsdzization supports the president. but first a year sunset to review and reauthorization, second, a limitation on ground

troops. depending on the interest, i will get into why i think that is actually strategically and militarily what we should do. third, a drastic limitation on this notion of who is an associated force so authorization once drafted doesn't suddenly grow into everything. and the fourth is a repeal of the 2002 iraq aumf so we don't have dueling aumf's out there. that's the first thing we ought to do take this up as soon as we get back. we have between november 12 and the 11th of december when the southeastern peace that was -- yrian peace expires. the second thing is reauthorization. crafting a specific authorization against ilele, a named group, is one thing. but revising an authorization that has been a broad legal

framework for dealing with the perpetrators of 9/11 and their associated groups, i mean, as even evidence bid some of the strikes yesterday against an al qaeda affiliate in syria is going to take a little more time to get that right. the white house is engaged in bipartisan discussion with congress now about the way to refine that. so that's the second thing we need to do and the white house is deeply engaged in that iscussion. the third thing is have a bipartisan discussion whether or not to initiate war. senator mccain and i have introduced a bill that looks at the infirmties that have made that war powers resolution in 1973 kind of a nullty since it was enacted. t was enacted after nixon -- congress had approved the vietnam war but they didn't approve of nixon going