$100,000. videos need to include c-span programming and must be submitted by january, 2015. grab a camera and get started today. ♪ >> this week on "q&a," our guest is johnetta cole, the director of the smithsonian's national museum of african art. she talks about her thoughts on race relations in america today. >> the last time i looked, you

had 61 honorary degrees. has that gone up? >> we just came through a commencement season. let me say, i do not take the degrees lightly. a part of having been into the academy and having invited individuals to receive honorary degrees, i consider this quite an honor. a privilege, a joy, to be acknowledged for doing work. that is what an honorary degree is about. the fact that it can be

connected to the young'uns, as i like to call young people, to their lives. could we even assume that it could serve for inspiration for them? >> what is your approach to the commencement address? a new speech every time? >> i love commencements. remember, i am trained as an anthropologist, so i know the importance of ritual and of ceremony. and i cannot think of a more -- a grander ceremony. however, that commencement speech is the toughest speech to do. one of my sons says, you know, my mom is good at speechifying. i do my best. i do not like just recycling. but in every commencement situation, you have competing

interests. the students basically just want this over. the parents would like it to linger, to assure them that their child has been well-educated. the faculty, they would like some real intellectual stuff going on here. you have competing audiences. and yet, it is a special moment. and it is captured in the word. it is the commencement. it is the beginning of a new leg in the journey of these young folk and sometimes not so young folk. so i love giving those speeches. >> you have been the director of the museum of african art since 2009. why did you take the job? >> i want to share with you that i did my best not to take the job. i went through the process and i was about to be appointed. i picked up the phone and i called a fellow anthropologist.

he is the undersecretary -- i'm sorry, yes, the undersecretary at the smithsonian. i said, richard, i am withdrawing. he said what? i said i am withdrawing. i said i am suffering from the penalty of expertise. all of a sudden, despite my passion for african art, i panicked. i am trained as an anthropologist, i am not an art historian, i do not have a phd in art history. and yet on two occasions i have the joy of co-curating an exhibition. i panicked. richard, think goodness, said,

ok. but before you do that you must call up our secretary, wayne. i knew wayne. he had been the president at georgia tech while i was at spelman. confident that i knew i was going to withdraw, i called him up, and every concerned that i raised, he had a response. i am so grateful to him and to richard, because this has been an absolutely exciting adventure. >> we have a picture, a photograph of what you say is your favorite piece of art. what are we looking at?

>> well, what i know is that that work of art, that seven foot statue, captures what our museum is about. it was created by an african artist. secondly, it captures a work that situates the world in the haitian revolution. and thirdly, it speaks of a human cry for freedom. >> what are we looking at? >> we are looking at a sculpture as he lifts up an elderly woman, an enslaved woman. it is saying to us that the world's people cry for freedom. it is also, artistically,

incredibly moving. so that i think each of us -- as the museum director, i think that each of us in the world of museums, we are constantly moving between message and sheer artistic beauty. >> recently there was an african summit in this town. did the leaders come to the museum? >> we were very involved in the summit. in a number of ways. the largest event at the museum was that we had a brunch. for first ladies. we invited these women, we identified them on the invitation not as first ladies. we called them african leading women.

they came, and while our space is crowded and we were trying to make do with what space we had, i can say it was a moving experience. because each of these women is in some way involved in an issue that is at the heart of africa's development. for many, it was education. for others, health. but they are not just engaged in the ceremonies of being the wife of a president. they care about their nations. they care about their people. it was a thrilling experience. we were also the site for visits, some of which were planned and some of which happened at the last minute. we welcomed each. for example, the king of

swaziland came to our museum. and our deputy director and chief curator was able to give him the kind of tour that not only exposed him or presented to him the diversity of our collection, she was also able to say, and here is a work of art from swaziland. we also just was a site for a folk who were moving throughout the city, who perhaps had heard that there is a place called the national museum of african art. but because our district of columbia had a heightened sense of the continent, i am pretty sure that more folks came our way than would have otherwise. >> if someone is coming to washington, how do they find the museum that you run?

>> if someone comes to washington, and thank goodness, 13 million people who come to washington in a year visit the smithsonian museums. how will they find our museum? well, we have been talking to the taxicab association and trying to say it, now, brothers, when somebody gets in and says, take me to the smithsonian, why don't you say, how about african art? we know that the museums, research centers, and the national zoo, make the largest research and museum complex in the world. it cannot be viewed in a day. but we do feel that what happens in our museum is absolutely important. because it is the only museum that ties any visitor to his or her humanity and ancestry.

we have a museum of african art. it does not matter what color you are, what your gender is, what your sexual orientation is, your religion, your nationality. go back far enough and you, like every other human being, are connected to the cradle of all of humanity, africa. >> here is some video of the museum itself showing the pieces of art. [video clip] ♪ >> african art, once described as primitive, is now sparking conversations about a people and a culture. opening a door to a new

understanding about the home of humanity. >> we are the place, the site, the location where conversations take place about africa, about the diaspora, and therefore about the world. >> how big is the museum? >> too small is the only answer. a museum that is 680,000 square feet is too small. but it is also a place where, under the care of the three curators, of our two conservators, our four educators. when you have a professional group of folks who are so passionate about the power and the beauty of african art, it is simply amazing what they can do with limited space.

and remember, once you enter our museum, the rest is underground. presenting us, of course, with challenges. but i am deeply proud of the quality of the exhibitions that we have presented. i am really proud of the effectiveness of these educational programs. and yes, i love the way that we are particularly dedicated to reaching out into communities that we have not touched before. so, i describe my colleagues, which i love as a term better than the staff, i describe my colleagues as small but mighty. i describe the space as the

place that we make do when don't wants to prevail. how about that? >> born in jacksonville, florida. fisk university. graduated from oberlin college. masters and a phd from northwestern university. did you really enter fisk university when you were 15 years old? >> yes. >> how did that happen? >> it happened because i was dumb. my parents, who were pushy southern black folks who believed in education said to me one day, there is a new program at fisk university. it is an early entrance program. and we would like you to go downtown, and take a test. if you pass it, you will go to the university. 15 years old, i did not want to go to a university. i wanted to be with my friends.

so i went downtown, and i was so stupid. i could have not passed the test, but i passed the test. and so off i went to fisk university, in my year that was my 15th year. it was an extraordinary experience. fisk, in nashville, tennessee, yes, still in the south. but fisk university, a mecca of black intellectualism. an extraordinary site of african and african-american art and culture. it was just a sterling year for me. until my father passed. and as john thomas sr.'s baby girl, i thought my world had ended. and so my mom and my older

sister said, well, why don't you go on an exchange program to oberlin. you will be near your sister and it will help. i joined my sister at oberlin, she was a dual major in piano and voice. and, it was important to be close to family. i fell outrageously in love with oberlin college. and i did not return to fisk. but i will say this, i feel extraordinarily fortunate to have had two experiences, the historically black university, and yes, the predominantly small white college -- the predominantly white college that is a small liberal arts college. i would say that between the two

institutions, i got myself a mighty good education. >> why anthropology? why northwestern? >> why anthropology? >> and what is it? >> that is easy. anthropology is the study of the human condition. but because i am a public intellectual, because i am a certain kind of anthropologist, i have to add that it is the study of the human condition in the interest of both understanding and helping to improve that condition. so, here i am at oberlin college, i know exactly what i will major in. since i was knee high to a duck, i have said it. you know how folk always as kids, what are you going to be when you grow up? as if a little kid knows.

but i knew enough to say, i will be a baby doctor, because i could get a good response. so here i am at oberlin, i am absolutely going to be a pediatrician. until i walked into the classroom of professor george e simpson. and by the end of the class, i had said goodbye pediatrics, hello anthropology. in the space of that first class, introduction to cultural anthropology, he had so ignited my interest that i made the decision. it is one i have never

regretted. now, i can't every day work as a cultural anthropologist. certainly my work at the museum does not allow me to go off and do my margaret mead kind of work. but think of anthropology as a pair of eyeglasses, a pair of lenses through which you see the human condition, the world, the world's people. not only professionally, but in terms of my own life. >> now, we do not have a lot of time, even though we have an hour, so i will ask you to do this quickly. here is word association. i will go through where you have taught, and i want you to just give us a tiny little snapshot of what you remember. let's start with ucla.

>> ucla, major university. a place where it was impossible to know enough, but a place that taught me a lot. >> how old were you? >> i was in my mid-20's. one of my very first appointments as a professor. >> washington state university. >> ah, washington state university. the 1960's. an era of great turmoil in higher education and american life. and i, one of the few african-american professors, in cahoots with students, as we helped to create one of the first black studies programs in our country.

a place were i not only taught and learned with my students, but we went to jail together as well. it was the era of the civil rights movement and the movement against the war in vietnam. >> what did you go to jail for? >> sitting in where we were not to be welcomed to sit in. but to say to washington state university, you cannot claim to educate anyone well when it is not a university that honors diversity. diversity among its students, its faculty, and in its curriculum. >> university of massachusetts amherst. >> university of massachusetts at amherst. a part of what is called the five college system.

a place of extraordinary intellectual activity. and there i was, professor of anthropology. professor in the w.e.b. dubois department of afro-american studies. and associated with women studies. it was the time when i was with my late husband, raising three sons. and hopefully helping to raise the intellectual curiosity of my students. >> are you talking about robert cole? the reason i ask you that is because he was a white man from an iowa farming family. what impact did that have on you

-- as you mentioned in it northwestern, what impact did that have, having interracial marriage? >> in the 60's, that had its particular challenges. because remember, in the 1960's in our own country, we were often captured by saying that this is the civil rights movement, but we also talked about the superiority of black power. so what was a time when, for many african-americans, there was resistance to an interracial marriage just as there was on the part of many white americans. it was not easy. there were many, many, many experiences that said to me that folk could so easily hate. but it was also an experience that allowed me, as an african-american woman, too, and a sense, live biculturally, to

live in my own experiences but to also share in the experiences of my husband. >> hunter college in new york city. >> hunter college. >> was miss shalala there? >> the only reason i went to hunter college was because one of my mentors, dr. donna e. shalala, invited me there as the first visiting professor. russell sage visiting professor in the social sciences. >> how did you know her? >> sometimes you just have to know somebody.

but i got to know donna from another mentor. i consider these two women the book ends for mentoring me. it was through marion edelman, president of the children's defense fund, that i got to meet donna salida. and it was those two women that insisted that i had no choice but to apply for the presidency of spelman college. but hunter college was -- it was an incredibly exciting intellectual experience for me. being at a school in the middle of new york city, is go with a tradition of educating immigrant women, a school that welcomed the diverse women and men of new york city. a place where, in my view,

anthropology could be a living experience my students. but it was also the place where i became even more committed to women's studies as a means of explaining an understanding that only the expenses of women but the experiences of women and men. a discipline that could help us to not only understand gender but to struggle more effectively against gender inequality. >> in 1987, you become president of spelman college. spelman stands for what? who is it named after? >> spelman college is named for the spelman family, connected to the rockefeller family.

and at spelman, i love this, the chapel is called sisters chapel. african-american women will often refer to each other as sister. it is named for the spelman sisters, lucy and laura spelman. it is an institution that has been profoundly blessed, so fortunate to have been the recipient of america's family philanthropy. it would not have existed well without the rockefellers. it would not have soared without the cosbys. >> how did you get the money from bill and camille cosby? >> i would love to tell a lie and say that, you know, i engaged in all of the steps of fundraising.

prospect research, cultivation, blah blah blah. and then finally, the big ask. i had been at spelman for only a few months when a call came in. on the other end was a famous voice, dr. bill as i called him. well i will not take you through each step of that conversation, there was a moment where dr. bill cosby said, camille and i were wondering, do you think you could use $20 million at spelman? i could not imagine that figure. i said, dr. bill, are you saying $2 million? he said, can't you hear? i said $20 million.

at my inauguration as the president of that historically black college for women, dr. cosby announced the biggest gift that any african-american family or individual had ever given. >> why did you do it? why did they do it? >> they have been asked that question. i will repeat the answers that they give. because they believe in education, and because they believe in the importance of educating women. because they believe that those important processes would happen well at spelman. >> is mrs. cosby on the board now? >> dr. camille cosby is a member of the national advisory board of the smithsonian national

museum of african art. can you imagine how grateful i am that she is on our board? >> when you think back to your 10 years at spelman college, what is the first moment that you remember, other than the $20 million gift? when you think back through those years, what is the moment that you remember? >> the moment i remember, i have to collapse as moments. moments of looking at young, african-american women, and just knowing of the promise, of the possibilities. knowing that if we did our work well, they could change the world.

they could change the world. and it is really hard to describe the sense of honor. i talk with dr. beverly daniel tatum, who i think has just been a sterling leader at spelman. she describes the same experience. there you are, realizing the power of education. to inspire, to instruct, an individual to soar to the height of her possibilities. and i cannot resist an african saying. "when you educate a man, you educate a man. when you educate a woman, you educate a nation."

that is the power that spelman college, that all women's colleges, that all colleges and universities in any educational system, have. it is the power to educate a nation through women. >> why is it that when you educate a man you educate a man and when you educate a woman you educate a nation? what is the difference between a man and a woman? >> the difference is what women do. here is an interesting problem. women all over the world are the primary socializers of the next generation. those of us who work for gender equity would like men to participate a little more in this process.

but until we have that happen, it is we as women who have the greatest influence on that next generation. it is also the case in my own country and yours, that early education in a formal sense, schooling, happens more often by women than by men. and so when we educate girls and women, they then have an unusually powerful role in educating the next generation. but something else happens. let's look at a continent like africa. when girls and women are educated, it means that they will think a little more about

family planning. it means that they will understand more the centrality of clean water and certain foods for not only their health, but the health of their family. it gives us the possibility, at least, that they will be more active in fighting against gender violence. education is such a powerful tool. and in the hands of a girl and a woman, it is an extraordinarily powerful tool. >> years ago, gillian ran for vice president, and at the democratic nominating convention, he interviewed you. we have some excerpts from the interview. we want to run it and get your reactions today. >> ah. [video clip]

>> one of the first challenges that i confronted at spelman was stonewalling. you know, southern folk, and i ain't one to say particularly southern black folk, really do not like conflict. i opposed large stereotypes. i was coming from a northern school, from new york city, where a lot of it is in your face. and you want to fight about this theory, i will take you on. you want to have this change in the administration, i will tell you why it is wrong. very, hush. let's not have any conflict here. and so i am raising ideas and suggesting things and i am just getting -- [laughter] >> what did you do about it? >> i did what i think you would

have done about it, which is that i first tried to understand it. because creating change without understanding what needs to be changed and why is futile. and i think, over the course of those 10 years, i think my invitation for greater transparency, for more openness, for speaking up more about, what are the issues that you feel strongly about. i think all of that did start to have some effect. but we really have to ask the faculty, the staff, the students who were there, what they think.

>> 2200 students, about the number. $300 million endowment today. here is a little bit more. [video clip] >> grandma would get herself up early in the morning. and whenever we ask the question, grandma, why do we have to get up so early? the answer was so simple, so clear in her mind. so we could get the beds made up. and so i knew that there would be a little more discipline, a little more of a regimented life than i was used to. i also remember the standard lunch at her house, which was two slices of white bread and a sandwich spread. i kept waiting for what was going to join the sandwich

bread. i went with some hesitation, i really did. it turned out to be a wonderful experience, to have a day to day relationship with a grandma. >> the family -- and if i'm correct, your full name is johnetta sammis -- is that how you pronounce it? >> that is not in my name. but i know of whom you speak. would you like me to talk about her? >> of course, and at the same time, i would like to do a trace back from a slave owner and slave trader in your immediate family. >> many, many years before this current focus on ancestry, my family has known an enormous amount about our maternal lineage. here, quickly, is the story. a girl, perhaps 13 or maybe 15, was enslaved in senegal.

and she was put on a ship after she had walked through that infamous door of no return. she was taken to cuba and put on an auction block. a british slave owner living in florida moved himself to cuba for the purpose of buying slaves. and when he bought this girl, anta madgigne jai, something happened. he fell in love with her. he vowed to free her after having enslaved her, or at least having bought her as an enslaved young woman.

and he said he would marry her. well, you do not marry an enslaved person or a freed one. and so he then studied until he knew the customs well enough for them to marry. there is a part of the story, as he brings her back to his plantation which exist today, the kingsley plantation, about 40 miles north of jacksonville. this part of the story gets problematic for me when i believe in truth-telling. anta was the only his wife through custom, she became a very rich woman, and owned her own slaves. that plantation exists today, the kingsley plantation.

it is under the guardianship of the national park services. and every year, i and the kingsley descendents, who are every conceivable color and nationality, come back to that plantation. the great-granddaughter of anta and zephaniah kingsley married the great grand father who is mine. putting it differently, my grandfather abraham lincoln lewis married to the great-granddaughter, mary sammis, of the kingsleys. you know, it is so important for us to keep trying to understand enslavement. and while the story i have told

may sound romantic and interesting, the very concept of enslavement needs to stop. it never should have started. >> you have three boys. david cole, aaron cole, and ethan cole. where are they? >> actually, i have three sons and i have a fourth son. james david stayton jr.'s one and only son, who is now my son. i wish i could say that they all lived in washington, d.c., but it is not the case. david lives in minneapolis,

minnesota. aaron lives in california. ethan lives in boston. and jeffrey lives in high point, north carolina. it is quite something, to grow sons up. to grow them up. but while i have four sons, i am fortunate to have thousands of daughters. not only from spelman college, but i have to lift up the joy i had in being the president of bennett college for women. so the only two historically black colleges for women in our country, i have had the privilege of being the president of each. and one of these days i want my page in the guinness book of world records. >> i have to go back to one

thing, i am old enough for this to matter. your son ethan che cole, where does the name che come from? from what i think it is? >> the name is from what you think it is. first of all, cuba is a place where i did fieldwork in. it was a place where i did fieldwork when it was not easy to do fieldwork. it was also a place where i have an interest in observing the whole process. and yes, that is ethan che cole. >> named after che guevara. which goes back to the early years that you were talking about, when were you the most active and how would we have seen you back in those days being active?

>> well, at washington state university, if you saw me, first of all, like many an african-american women, you would have seen me with an afro about out to here. because of my skin tone, because of the size of the afro, some people would say, is that angela davis? in the 60's, i was very, very active. i thought that the war in vietnam was not a just war. and i demonstrated against that war. i will never forget the day that our oldest son david said to my late husband anthony as we were preparing to go off for a very peaceful demonstration against that war.

david said, mom, i got an idea. this is a little tot. he said, why don't we get a big net and catch the war? and then we would not have to go on march today. it was also the time of the black power movement. it was the time that we now identify as the civil rights struggle. i was very much a part of that. including what went on in the academy as we said that it was important for black folk, not only to have their civil rights

honored in the voting booth, and be able to live where they wanted to live, and not being harassed, but it was also important for african-americans to have a place within the academy. for colleges and universities to understand that the education of all of us rests, in some way, in our understanding our diversity. those were very, very turbulent times. and yes, i was very much a part of it. >> were you an sdser? >> i was not. >> was there an organization -- would we have seen you involved in the freedom marches down in the south? >> you would. for example, i was very supportive of the black panthers

breakfast program. while there are elements of the black panther movement that i do not identify with, nor did i identify with them then, the idea of providing breakfasts for children, that was a pretty good idea to me. >> here is some video of you doing some of your own interviewing in a series called "conversations." what is that? where did you do them? it is jill scott, maya angelou. >> since i have been at the museum of african art, we launched a program called the director's discussion series. the idea is basic. that i would have conversations with some of the most interesting artists, scholars in

our world. and so the first conversation was with professor anthony. described by forbes as one of the seven greatest thinkers in the world. i also had the fun experience of having a conversation with marcus samuelson. a very hot, popular chef whose restaurant in harlem, red rooster, you ought to try. i had a conversation with dr. maya angelou who has now gone off to glory. and a conversation with jill scott. those are the individuals that i have been fortunate enough to engage in that setting.

>> she is a singer, plus. >> you can say that. she is a singer, an actress, a poet. i call her a force. >> let's watch a little bit of this. [video clip] >> i thought that we should talk about where you come from. and i do not mean philly. >> ok. [laughter] >> and where i come from. and where every living human being, and the late, have come from. because it is the only place on earth that is the cradle of humanity. we ought to start out by talking about africa. in cairo, egypt, working, learning arabic. one of the six languages that

you command. moving to ghana, learning swazi. it would be so wonderful if you would just say a little bit about this long love affair you have had with african culture. >> i am an african, obviously. i mean, i am an african american. you know, there is a wonderful song. ♪ i am on my journey now mount zion on my journey now mount zion mount zion for my journey now ♪ >> what did she mean to you? >> so much, so much.

but, you know, while dr. maya angelou meant the world to me, she meant the world to so many. and while i can fool myself into thinking that i had a super special place in her heart, i know that her heart was large enough for all of us. and now, when i continue to think about her, i think about her insistence on having a place in her heart for the range of humanity. i sure wish that a lot of other folk could get to that point.

>> here is a part of your life that you do not see much of. the board of directors of home depot. the first woman to be on the board of coca-cola. >> coca-cola enterprises, the bottling company. >> and were you really on the board of the atlanta falcons? >> are you doubting that i know enough about football? the answer is yes. shortly after he bought the team, he assembled a group of atlantans to advise him. i love football. >> tell me about being on these boards. how many are you still on? >> the answer to the last part of that series of questions is, i am not on any corporate

boards. because serving as the director of a smithsonian museum, i cannot serve on other boards. i have served on around eight advisory boards. let's be honest, i think i have about aged out of being on corporate boards. it was, i think, a hunk of experiences that helped me to see the world more clearly. i would like to think that serving on those boards, that i actually managed to bring to those discussions a perspective, a set of experiences that was important. when i served on corporate boards, there were not many women, as there are today. nor were there many folk of color. and if you believe, as i do,

that diversity is important not simply as a moral issue, but that there is a business case for it, that those with diverse experiences inform american corporations and help them to compete well in the global economy, then i would have to hope that i managed to make a contribution on those boards. i never sat on a corporate board with the assumption that i am just here and it is irrelevant that i am an african american woman. it was always my assumption that it was highly relevant that i was an african-american woman.

>> you have been on the top of the mountain as a phd and the president of a school and the head of a museum. you were, in your early life, an activist who was heavily involved in civil rights activity. looking back, assessing the united states at the moment and race relations, what has worked over the years and what hasn't? >> for some reason, i am thinking of a phrase that dr. martin luther king used. first of all, i want to strongly identify with the nonviolent movement. but dr. king said this, that within the nonviolence movement for social change, he said that if we are going to really make

the necessary change, we are going to have to educate, we will have to legislate, and when necessary, we will have to agitate. i think that each of those methods for social change, each has worked. it is through a process of education that those who dare to think that they are superior to others have some chance of getting rid of that obscene idea. education can do that. but without legislation, we would not have made the progress we have made in our country.

and so, when the laws that we have managed to have have been challenged and changed, it is at a great cost to the freedom of all of us. and yes, i do believe that nonviolent agitation, stirring it up, raising the one's voice, speaking out in the interest of social justice. i do believe that that has moved my nation forward. >> you alluded to this and i will be careful how i ask this. you said that people at your age do not serve on boards anymore. my last question to you is, why are you still working so hard at your age? >> that is a really good question. i have a way of describing what has happened to me. i am an educator.

i am now a museum director, but i am still an educator. i have received three f-minuses in retirement. i have tried. i have literally failed at retirement. and so i am thinking, it is not a word i should use anymore. maybe i should just think of a time that i would work less intensely. because i think that, with my colleagues at the national museum of african art, that we are doing serious, good, exciting work, i do not think i should leave just yet. but the time will surely come when i will work less intensely. and who knows when that will be? >> johnnetta cole, director of

the national museum of african art. >> did an hour really pass? thank you so much. >> for free transcripts, or to give us your comments, visit us at q&a.org. they are also available as cspan podcasts. ♪ monday night on that community -- on the communicators, jeremy grant talks about how to increase data protection.