aware it is black or white, keep it or repeal it, but do not work to fix it. i think that is exactly what is wrong. there is another solution here. we need to work together to fix this error we need to work together to make sure that women continue to get the contraceptive care that they need despite what washington is doing. these are not decisions to be made by bureaucrats in washington. >> with regard to women and contraceptive care, these are important. i want to make clear we provided both as a ceo. i am pleasedo say to have gotten the endorsement of multiple unions. many of them are here tonight. and unions have been terribly discriminated against in obamacare. the government has taken winner and losers, and obamacare

includes $900 billion in subsidies over 10 years for major commercial health insurance. the union health plans are not eligible, and they are being frozen out of that market by the government picking winners and losers. it is a mistake. question.t >> what policy should the federal government pursued to improve our nation's economy? government'sederal responsibility for growing alsomic disparity, and including an increase in the minimum wage. >> thank you. the mostion touches on important comment of his campaign, the economy. the economy is the bedrock of so much else and have talked about

tonight. the basic building block of the economy is jobs. is pursuingent policies right now that are killing job creation. we have 8 million people that have dropped out of the search for a job in despair. we have 7 million people stuck in part-time jobs, and we have millions still unemployed completely. there is no silver bullet, but our concrete, immediate things that this government can do to creation.d foster job a few weeks ago i issued a jobs report, pretty comprehensive. i call for action across various like infrastructure investment as an example, or things that can be done in health care or important things continue to

employment. there are things government can do in every industry that won't help with job creation could -- that will help with job creation. a stable source of funding is essential if we are going to have a highway trust fund that can create an for structure projects and put people to work, like the union members i just mention. we must pursue those policies. i believe that is what will lift up and create opportunities for people that are struggling today. >> thank you. >> i think there are many ways that we should bolster our economy. first, i think small businesses are a backbone to our economy. we should look to increase the that small businesses have to capital so we can encourage small businesses not only to start up, but to move forward and to grow. we need to reduce the tax burden on small businesses, give them a

double tax credit for their startup costs. sure that small business loans are accessible and available to them. i would agree i think we need to make sure we are investing in infrastructure which is so critical here in the united states. with regard to the joint base, this is an absolute economic engine here in south jersey, with 40,000 jobs on the base and an additional 60,000 jobs connected with the base. i am honored by serving as an honorary commander. it is something i have advocated and will continue to advocate for in washington, d.c. as far as the minimum wage, there is no doubt we need to increase the minimum wage. with regard to women alone, 2/3

of people on minimum wage are women. these are people who are trying to make ends meet and put meals on the table for their families. by increasing the minimum wage we can bolster the economy for women and for their families. in regard to women, again, we need to make sure that women are being paid fairly, that they are paid equally to the male counterparts. >> i want to respond. on the helping small business, it is essential. small business is the mainstay of employment in this country. theomebody who has had privilege of creating thousands of jobs, i have some understanding of the decisions i made as a ceo based on tax policy and regulatory policy. was a local elected official in edgewater park. she voted for a resolution to , speaks tonight

about wanting to help small businesses grow, but she voted for a tax on small business. i have never heard of anything like that on the local level, on top of the hundred fees that she voted for the middle class, she voted to tax certain businesses every time they hired a new employee. i do not understand how that helps small business. >> i will mention my husband is a small business owner in edgewater park. i have seen how small businesses are struggling to make ends meet. again, we need to make sure we are working for small businesses so they can continue to grow and so we can encourage the start up of small businesses. withoutlined the ideas regard to access to capital, reduction of fees on small businesses, these are always we can help small businesses right

here in the third district. >> i have to interrupt. [indiscernible] outside the building. let me know. candidate belgard first. >> discuss your ideas for overhauling u.s. immigration policy. in your response, these address the issue of undocumented youth seeking access to higher education in the u.s. and the current influx of minors from central america. >> i think we have seen recently, especially in the news, the problems we are having with immigration in this country. immigration issues in this country, especially with minors. we have also seen it here in the third district.

my husband is a small business owner, and i have seen it in my has lost jobshe because of companies that were able to outbid him because they were using illegal workers. as i talk to people throughout the district, i hear similar stories. it is something that needs to be addressed. addressed by making sure we have secure borders. i am not for amnesty. i am for a tough, but fair have to citizenship each would include making sure that those who are in line or at the front of the line, making sure that folks who are criminals are sent home, making sure that folks who want a path to citizenship are paying their back taxes. i also think an important thing to look at is here in the third district where we have a large central american population, where we have veteran immigrants

want a path to citizenship, put them in line as well. these are elements that can be weaved into the problem. the problem now is we have legislators who are not willing to talk about it, are not willing to come to the table and negotiate. that is what is broken. we need to get our legislators talking about these problems so we can work to resolve the immigration problems. >> thank you. candidate mcarthur? >> we have a major immigration problem. new jersey has that third highest population of illegal immigrants in the country. i have laid out my position for many months now on immigration. it will sound familiar to you. tough, but fair, returning criminals to the country of origin, payment of back taxes. if you go to my website, you will find that. if you go to ms. belgard's

website, he will not find the word immigration as of yesterday. she just gave you my position from my website, which i think is interesting. [laughter] president,eve this when he changed policies, issued a homing signal to central america that has brought on the crisis we are experiencing right now. and we must address border security first and foremost. that has to be the starting point for anything, any policy. ms.uld also like to ask belgard how she feels about in-state tuition. i did not hear her mention that. i would be interested in how she answers about how she feels about granting in-state tuition to children that are here illegally? >> no necessity to answer a question from another candidate. >> i am fine, thank you. >> we will now proceed to other

questions. talk about gun safety measures you would support. discuss your proposal for greater gun safety. >> my starting point is i believe americans have a second amendment right to defend themselves, their family, their theerty, without relying on state. that is the starting point for me. i believe that we need to work with law enforcement and with mental health advocates to make sure guns do not end up in the hands of criminals and those that are mentally unstable. new jersey has among the most stringent gun control laws in the country today. and i believe enforcing existing laws, not adding new ones, is a better approach. >> thank you.

candidate belgard? >> thank you. i fully understand and appreciate the second amendment. my husband actually owns guns. as a mother, i feel it is about gun safety. while i understand that there are sportsmen who use guns and folks want to protect their homes with guns, i would agree, i think we need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and out of the hands of folks with mental health issues. i think there are ways we can look to further address this. we are keepingt guns out of the hands of criminals, we're keeping guns out of the hands of those who have been convicted for domestic violence issues. we need to make sure we're closing loopholes at gun shows and making sure we have background checks. this is an issue that needs further addressing as we have

seen some of the tragedies that have happened recently across our nation, and most recently, with the incident out in arizona, nine years old, who killed her gun instructor with an uzi. this girl is never going to be able to return to the life she once had, and that is an absolute tragedy. it is about gun safety and making sure we have measures in place to keep guns safe. >> any further remarks? >> no, thanks. >> thank you. >> these questions will come from the audience. this first question will begin with candidate belgard.

do changes need to be made to social security to make it more secure and solvent for the future? >> i think social security and the promise we have made to our senior generations, these are earned benefits. changing orfavor of privatizing social security. i think there are ways we can work to foster social security going forward. going back to altering the economy. when you look at minimum wage for example, adding the minimum $4.3 billion by 2016. there are a multitude of different options and ways we can increase social security going forward rather than changing it. pushing thefavor of

goalposts down the field and changing the age for social security or reneging on our promises. again, we are a smart nation. we need to talk about ways of keeping our promises to our older generations. >> thank you. social security is a promise and must be kept, particularly for those who are nearing or in retirement, he will who have older whole lives around this. it must be preserved for them. fix for thisemost is to improve the economy. it is to create jobs. social security was set up as a system where today's generations of workers supports today's generations of retirees. the problem is because we have a baby boomer generation moving into retirement and we have so many people out of work who are , social part-time jobs security is under tremendous stress.

for some foremost we have got to get the economy working again with jobs. if that is not enough, then we can look at people my daughter's age that are just entering the workforce and see if there are amendments and changes that might make sense. but my hope would be most of the stress would be removed by getting america working again. >> thank you. the next question will begin arthur.ndidate mac where do you stand on fracking and particularly the transporting of fracking materials through new jersey? >> we do not have fracking in new jersey. i think fracking is something that should be explored. more a way to extract natural gas, and we should be doing that safely. with regard to the transport of

chemicals from what state to another, i believe that is an issue for the states. wastersey does permit coming from pennsylvania into new jersey today, and those are decisions that people closest to the voter are making, state elected officials, and that is where it should be made. >> thank you. i'm concerned about fracking given we do not know the processes that are used and the chemicals used in the fracking process. think it is something that needs to be more transparent. i also think there are other alternatives that are safer and cleaner and that can be explored. i mentioned a couple earlier, solar, wind, geothermal options, and i would agree, we do not have marsalis shale in new jersey, and i believe our legislature has evened and fracking in new jersey. it isighbors to the west,

obviously an issue, and an issue of concern for people who are worried about their health and welfare. i think more transparency is needed in the processes, and we need to get different alternatives. on -- question is do you think there is a need to further stabilize the financial position of the postal service? >> i think the postal service is a bedrock. it is an american institution. sure itwe need to make remains solvent going forward, especially here in the third district where we have such a large population of seniors that are relying on getting their mail six days a week, whether for their medications or even to make sure it that they are seeing a postal person on a daily basis where they kind of

checkup on them. up on them. it is an american bedrock here in the united states that we need to continue to maintain for the delivery of so much to our homes. >> thank you. we agreeappy to report on an issue this evening. [laughter] next question will begin with candidate mcarthur -- macarthur. do you believe the law should recognize marriage for all couples? >> i believe marriage should be treated equally under the law, but i also believe marriage is between one man and one woman, and the challenge is to reconcile those two bank to make sure that people are treated equally under law, but i do not

leave the definition of marriage should be changed. >> thank you. candidate belgard? >> i believe in marriage equality. i believe this is a civil rights issue and have spoken about at the burlington county freeholder when my colleague joanne schwartz and i put forward a resolution to defend to the governor, after his original veto, of marriage equality legislation here in the united states. you know what -- i do not think it is for our legislators to decide who can love each other and you can be by each other's hospital bedside as they are tyidying. these are true civil rights issues, and people should be able to love each other and be married if they want to. >> yes, i do want to make clear, when i speak about equal under law, some of that you just alluded to.

visitation rights in hospital and certain legal rights, things that were granted in new jersey under other institutions granted that, and those elements i think are important. >> any more? the next question will begin with candidate elgar. -- belgard. would you or we you not recommend making changes to our medicare system? candidate belgard? >> thank you. i do not recommend making any substantive changes to our medic are system. this is another promise that has been made to folks. we have seen to the current budget passed by the house this year paramedics changes to medicare. there are tweaks that can be made to make sure that medicare remains solvent. for example, some of the prescription drug negotiations

that happened with medicaid. let's use those for medicare to make it more affordable. i am not in favor of reducing or changing our medicare benefits to our seniors. a promise that has been made and must be kept. i am concerned about changes that have been made. verse, the $700 million that obamacare took out of medicare to a support obamacare. that would affect the quality of care to seniors over time. i prepared a jobs plan, which i mentioned earlier, i went industry by industry, and when it came to health care, one of the largest employers in the region, i visited six hospitals, went to the health institute of new jersey, the burlington county medical society, and use of others, and i was asking,

whatd are the changes doing to you? i discovered our hospitals in particular are being hammered by medicare changes. i will mention two. one is the readmission rule. if you go to the hospital and are released, if you go back for any reason within a certain amount of time, you do not get paid as a hospital. somebody can be in for an endless, a week -- for an illness, a week later they can break their leg, and if readmitted, the hospital does not get paid. -- there are also audits, and these are companies that are allowed to reclaim moneys that hospitals have been dod under the care and they not have to prove their case. basically say you have been overpaid by x. they get to take it as an offset what the medicare owes the hospital, and hospital has to fight to get it back. almost 80% ofwin

the time, but it takes years to get that money. i am concerned about the stress that is pleasing on hospitals. the deductibles are so high that hospitals are being saddled with bad daebt for people that cannot pay their bills due to those deductibles. these things need attention. are hospital systems are under stress. >> i would agree there are exactly as you mention issues that need to be addressed. unfortunately, we have a congress right now that refuses to do that. we need to bring folks together so we can address these issues without cutting benefits to our seniors who not only have received this promise, but who need them in their older years in life. i think we need to bring folks to the table, not just

legislators, but as you mentioned, the folks from the hospital systems and the medical professions so we can fix these are making sure that our seniors are getting the utmost care and the most efficient -- in the most efficient and effective ways. the question, since you mentioned, i will segue into it, and we begin with candidate macaruthur, are you bothered by the approval ratings for congress, and why is it so and what would you do to change it? >> we all should be bothered. the president's approval rating is terrible. congress' is even worse. it is one of the primary reasons i'm running for this office, that congress is at a total impasse. people are stuck in their camps unwilling to work together, and i believe the answer is for people who can work together to

be in congress. that is the bedrock of building a business. that is how we grew by thousands of people. we had to work together, had to work sometimes with companies that we might want to acquire our competition in the marketplace. it is one of the things i am most proud of in this campaign, getting endorsements from business groups like the u.s. chamber of commerce and the national federation of independent business, and at the same time getting endorsements from labor unions, like the carpenters, laborers, operating engineers, and others, because they often do not get along, and yet they agreed that on some that i am somebody that can create jobs. we absolutely have to have congressmen and congresswomen that have a demonstrated ability to work with other people. >> thank you. candidate belgard? >> congress is an absolute mess, and that is exactly why i'm

running, to use the skills i have learned over the years, whether as a volunteer with the american cancer society to my role in negotiating as an attorney, the skills i have gained as a burlington county real holder -- freeholder. i worked across the aisle with my republican colleagues. i am perfectly to agree with my republican colleagues when did they have a good idea. please to say that one of my favorite quotations was a benjamin franklin, if everybody is thinking alike, nobody's thinking. i believe sometimes you can bring divergent views together and come up with something even better. that is a great thing. right now congress has lost sight of that. the are so set in their ways, digging heels in the ground, not willing to listen to folks on the other side of the aisle, and even think about the fact that they might have a good idea. i am willing to do that. i have done it as a freeholder

and i will do it in congress. i will do it in representing the struggling to fill class here in the third district, our veterans, our seniors, the hard-working people of the third district. >> i would like to respond. i think the proof is in the pudding, as the expression goes. and in order to work with other people in congress, you have to be willing sometimes to stand up to your own party. bossed.not be l you have to be standing up for what you believe in. i have to go back to ads, two of which have come off the air which event sold defamatory and dishonest, and ms. belgard, campaigns put you under a microscope, and under that pressure and microscope, candidate belgard did not disavow the ads that her

handlers in washington had put up on the air, even after they had to down. she still would not say the southern city had no place in the con pain -- in a campaign. i do not know if you can working conversation cannot even do it in a campaign. >> thank you. i like that you, mr. macarthur cap have brought -- mr. breck arthur, -- mr. macarthur, have brought up the ability to disavow your party. the labels.ut it is not about being a democrat or republican. it is about working for the people. that is what i have exhibited, whether it was in edgewater park where i voted against my hearty because i thought it was the right thing to do, or as a burlington county freeholder when i voted with the opposite party because i think it is the right thing to do. that is what we need more of. it is about collaboration. that is what i absolutely pride myself on.

>> thank you. next question, we will begin with candidate l gard -- belgard. there has been a lot of news about american corporations adjusting them in a position by going overseas so they can avoid paying taxes in america. how do you stand on this practice? >> we have seen it most recently with the potential of losing burger king, and the president has put out with regard to taxing inversions. it is unfortunate that burger king has brought light to this, but something that absolutely needs to be addressed. i have talked about, but i do not like to see us incentivizing companies that are shipping jobs overseas. i also do not want to see us using companies like her hurricane and others here from the united states and losing the benefits of having those countries -- companies here in the united states. while unfortunate it has been

brought to the like, i'm glad it has been brought to the table so we can work to keep companies incentivize them to stay here in the united states. >> inversions are a problem. companies that want to be overseas, instead of america. the problem is the tax code. the tax code this incentivizes or incentivizes sometimes the wrong behavior. that is what we need to work. it needs to be flatter and lower as a starting point. i want to talk about foreign earnings. i mentioned how important infrastructure investment was for job creation. the question is how do we pay for that. the u.s. companies with foreign have trillions of dollars sitting overseas. they do not bring it back because it will be taxed a second time if they do. it sits over there, and i know

from my business experience it is frequently asked invested in foreign infrastructure. that money could do a world of tens of could create thousands, hundreds of thousands of jobs if it was brought back home. trillion ismaybe $4 sitting overseas. what if a trillion of it came back? on a $17.5 trillion coming, what if another trillion dollars was back in the united states? capital isience, what creates jobs. investment is what creates jobs. as we need tobe make our tax code sensible. it is common sense to me that is adjusting the tax code that is driving companies to do things they are doing today. >> the next question will begin with candidate macarthur. questions on immigration. is your position on

providing a path for citizenship to children, raised here from a very young age and attending american schools? >> i believe there should be a path to citizenship. we are not going to port 11 million people that are here illegally. we are not going to break up families. that has to be path. this is similar to what we talked about earlier. i think immigration policy has to start with strong borders, and then people that have not committed crimes, if they pay back taxes, if they learn english, then i think you create a path for them. meanwhile you create an ability for them to work. i hear the that all over this district, farmers, manufacturers , restaurant owners, they want people here to have the ability to work because they need that labor. with regard to children and in-state tuition, ms. belgard

did not want to answer that, but i will answer my own question. i do not leave that children that are here illegally should get in-state tuition, and i do not believe he should do it every child here illegally the ghostly state school with in-state tuition, there is another child who is here legally who cannot get there, because colleges have limits of student at the lower end who do not take in-state tuition. we are punishing the child of someone who is here legally. i do not think it is right. i have compassion, i genuinely have compassion for the so-called dreamers, but there are consequences, and their parents have been here illegally, and one of the consequences is i do not think they should get the same in-state tuition as the citizens of the state. >> thank you. candidate belgard?

>> children are the victim of circumstances here. mother, it is heartbreaking to see the situation some of these children are in. tearing imagine families apart. some of these children do not know any other country because they came here at such a young age. to ao send them back country where they might not even know the language or the culture -- it is about keeping families together. through a do that path to citizenship like we discussed before, but making sure we are protecting these children who really are the innocent victims of the circumstances. >> in extension? the next question will begin belgard.didate d

what policies should be enacted to insure all citizens have the ability -- i am sorry, wrong question -- these discuss what should be the role for federal government providing equitable the quality of education for all 12, somepre k through specifics on that? >> i am the product of public education, and both of my children are publicly educated. and seventhin fourth grades now. i have seen first hand in my own school districts some of the difficulties schools are facing. both of my children are elementary, and middle schools in the last year have lost their libraries. schools are in a difficult position now. morew schools are really local in nature, but we need to toe sure we do not have cuts

things like head start programs and things like that that we have seen in the budget that congress passed this year, make sure schools are continuing to get federal resources, they need to be successful. we also need to look at higher have seen where we with the budget passed by congress this year huge cuts to which would absolutely stifle our students looking to go to college and higher education. i have talked about how i think we need to make sure we are investing in education in this country, again looking to reallocate funds, whether from money that is being given to big oil or money being shipped overseas. again, invest that in education. --cation is the condemnation is the foundation for us in the united states to be able to stay

apart from the global market and the global economy. hear ahe opportunity to story recently of a young man who got his medical degree, did everything he was supposed to do, got a great job in new york city, but could not actually get a lease on an apartment because he was so encumbered by his loans. i think that is terrible. i am also the product of are myeducation, as children. my guiding this is a senior now my youngestol -- now is a senior in high school. i see education as a local and state function. that is where it needs to be shaped the most. most aboutned failing school districts, and i think in those districts, parents and students have cap other options, charter schools and other things. no child should be trapped in a failing school district.

teacher tenure reform, very critical to me. i think the federal government can play a supportive role, but should not take over education. with regard to higher education, there are things i think that you to take face, and could take is immediately. are too highrates and cannot be refinanced. students are graduating with debt that is choking out their ability to make a living. there can be tax credits, should be taxed at it for higher education costs. the federal government should schoolsn the occasional more so that students can graduate with less debt with the skills for the jobs that are available to them. instead of graduating from college is, sometimes with a greater that come into a job market that cannot hire them. i think vocational schools are a cure area -- are a key area for federal and state governments,

but federal government should be investing. this is the foundation for our future economy, having a well-educated workforce. >> any extension? >> i will mention as part of the education, the secondary education overview, the importance of county colleges. in burlington and ocean county, we have some great gems, and having been a freeholder, i can speak for this. these serve not only as a jumpstart to other college or and forty institution, example, in burlington county weren't we have partnered with universities and colleges, there are resources for folks who are having ethical times, where folks have been laid off or looking for a new career, they that isn new skills and a great opportunity. i think we need to look at the

federal government and investing in these institutions, county colleges. question is, more specifically on adherence. what kind of programs would you like to have enacted in congress? >> what has happened to veterans is a tragedy. the way they have been treated under the veterans administration is a national scandal. it is beginning to get fixed, but there is a good deal more attention and work that needs to be done there. plan the areas in my jobs dealt specifically with that trend. there is a number of things we can do. congress shamefully allowed the returning veterans tax credit to expire, and the winded warriors tax credits to inspires -- to expire. these allowed veterans to make use of the skills they learned

as veterans. that is essential. i tend to be a supporter of that program, andhats there are many of them throughout the country. but these help returning veterans move from military service into the construction trades. i think these are wonderful programs that deserve our full support. >> thank you. candidate dbelgard? >> my father was a vietnam veteran, so this is an issue that was close to my heart, and having seen him struggle with stomach cancer after being exposed to agent orange. struggle of our veterans, so many veterans here third district who .a., had problems with the v/a i put together a committee with

veterans who have enlightened me on these issues. these folks have put everything on the line for us, and they deserve our care. systemicee the problems in washington, we need to make sure we are addressing them. none of the first things i would do in congress, talk about reaching across party lines, i would reach out to mike fitzpatrick in pennsylvania because he has been so instrumental in philadelphia to rectify some of the problems. we also need to make sure we are fulfilling our promise is to our veterans, aching sure they have access to education after they have served and good jobs in addition to their heart hats to -- hardhats to helmets program, they have partnered with the postal service. we need to make sure that veterans who have put everything on the line for us are able to

get not only the care they need, that can helpjobs them continue to put food on the tables after they have done everything for us. >> i want to expend one thing, and that is something i firmly support, and that was recent action that allows veterans, if they have to travel more than 40 miles or wait more than 30 days for care in a veterans facility that they would be able to go to a physician of their choice or a facility of their choice. that is very important. i do not understand why they do not have a veterans hospital here in this the strip. we need one near the joint base. we have the largest veterans population in the state, and we have one of the largest in the country. we have one of the largest military communities in the country right here in the middle of the joint base. facility have a v.a.

in this district. it will create jobs building it, create jobs running it, and most important it will serve our veterans. >> any response? i would agree with mr. macarthur that the recent passage by washington of legislation to seek for veterans medical attention if they are 40 miles or more away from a v.a. facility is a step in the right russian. -- right direction. i have pictures that veterans might not get some of these specialized care in facilities that are not v.a. facilities. make.a. has the ability to sure that there are specialized treatments, for example, for ptsd victims and others. i think it is a step in the right russian, but a problem that we need to continue to -- right direction, but a problem

of the we need to continue to work on. >> a specific question from the audience, and we will begin with belgard.e d how do you stand on the minimum wage? >> i support legislation, and i mentioned it earlier, that would raise them minimum wage. this is an issue that is long overdue in this country. as i mentioned, there are about 2/3 of the people on minimum wage that are women. these are folks were trying to put food on the table for their families, get their kids after school in the morning, trying to make a fair wage for their families. and there are other benefits to it. like i mentioned earlier, raising the minimum wage a loan inld reduce the shortfall social security by a third.

now we have a congress that is not willing to address this issue. absolutely, i think the raising of the minimum wage has to be part of the discussion and the economic wreckage moving forward in this country. >> yes. viewe a bit of a different on the minimum wage. i believe it is best done at the state level. i have never understood how a federal minimum wage can cover rural alabama and suburban new jersey at the same time. and i think state minimum wages are much more responsive to local constituencies. has a higher minimum wage than the federal, and it is eing raise soon. i also want to see people move off of minimum wage. the whole focus of my jobs plan is to get people into good-paying permanent jobs, not

starter jobs, to get people to training they need to come to get industries moving in the right direction through in some cases tax incentives are regulatory relief or direct investment or fostering other policies. these are the kinds of things that will get people off of minimum wage and into building better futures for the meselves and for their families. towe do not have enough time cover another question, so we could move to our closing remarks. candidate belgard will begin. >> thank you again to the leak for hosting us this evening, for everyone who came out of their busy schedules to be part of the democratic process tonight and for mr. macarthur for turning beet with this. it has been a pleasure to be here this evening.

as i mentioned earlier, i am from south jersey. my interest in going to congress is to serve the people of south jersey, the people i grew up with, whether it is a hard-working middle-class families, the farmers that we tly throughout the district, the folks along the coastline. we have a very diverse district here. the folks in this district need a voice, and just as i have done through my years of experience, eating a voice with the american cancer society for my community neighbors, and being a voice in burlington county. i am looking to take it one step further and be a voice for the people of south jersey and the third district. as i mentioned, the hard-working middle-class folks, women who

are without a voice right now as we have seen most recently with some of the discussions about equal pay in this country. we need a voice for our veterans. we have seen the systemic problems in the v.a. system. we need a voice for our seniors who are worried that the promises made to them are not going to be fulfilled. that is exactly what i intend to be and what i will be in congress, a voice for the people of south jersey who i have grown up with and who i love so much. it'thank you. >> i thank you for the opportunity. i want to touch on two things. ,he first is talk versus action naming the constituency groups in the district is not the same as the ability to serve them. md when i compare myself and belgard, i created jobs,

thousands of them, and ms. belgard taxed them. i paid men and women fairly for decades, and these are now talking points for aimee in 2014. we have talked about helping sandy victims. this is something i did, my wife and i come to our sandy foundation, provided funds through our local church to weilies that were displaced, partnered with the american red cross to help with that, and when that was not enough, we home.our own aimee talk about helping sandy victims. they do not need talk. they need real help and service. i have issued a jobs plan.

i have not seen any plan from aimee to create jobs and i do not think she has the experience to create. i have been open for many months. this is our first date. i asked for debate in june, july, august, september, and here we are in october, finally sitting together. i think my opponent has been hiding. the second theme is about honesty and how to develop relationships, and i can see i am out of time, but i will to say this -- i say what i mean and i mean what i say, and i have not seen the same in this campaign on the other side. >> let's give a round of applause to the candidates and to the audience and to everybody here. [applause]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] wille closing remarks that be on c-span. i want to make them. ask everyone again. i want to urge your french see the video your friends -- your friends to see the video. c-spaneck with the website and the cable providers for the broadcast times. you can visit the candidates' websites. each of us has the right and privilege to vote. do that you must be properly registered. is deadline to register october 14. you can download a voter registration application from the league website. you can register by mail.

njelections.org. information, there are some great sites. most importantly, remember to vote november 4. thank you. jay-z -- the new jersey debate, one of more than 100 we are featuring this season. our website www.c-span.org, has more. turning to a couple of senate races. colorado and georgia, we get a preview from reporters covering those two races. host: want to go to colorado. -- reporter joining us on the

phone. you're a co-moderator of the senate debate last night. what was the take away? guest: there was some criticism but the questions were about social issues. that is not true at all. were socialanswers issue related. opponent, said his cory gardner, wants to make abortion illegal. republicane repeatedly recused mark udall of voting with president obama 99% of the time. heard a lot about this race. if this were a movie, the backdrop would be a gynecologist office. it is been all about

contraception and abortion. guest: that was my story. host: how is that playing out? guest: i assumed the internal polling for mark udall said this is successful or do it move elsewhere. one of the biggest laughs came when i said, i asked mark udall if he had gone too far on that track? i said his nickname was mark uterus. host: what was the response? guest: his response was, no, he hasn't gone too far because cory gardner has a record to outlaw abortion and ban birth control. cory gardner did sponsor some bills that you look at and say, servedat he worked --

in the legislature sponsored a bill to make abortion, performing abortion a felony. if you know his record, he is not someone you would ever consider a social issues candidate. taxes,much more about property rights, energy. not until they got into this race did anybody say, wow, that guy is right wing on social issues because he wasn't known for it. host: what does it mean for the people that have to vote? look, well, i mean -- mark udall is the incumbent. he has the advantage. the idea that this race is tied just gives them a kratz fi -- just gives democrats fits.

e has these positions on women's issues. how could he be tied in the races? the whole mood about congress and are they effective? host: what about president obama? guest: president obama does not fare well in polls in colorado. i think that is a factor not if you're a democrat. colorado is interesting politically and divided almost and 1/3, 1/3 with democrats unaffiliated voters. unaffiliated voters usually go with the national mood. that did not happen in 2010 one michael bennet narrowly won the senate race. michael bennet employed the

strategy, the war on women. i think that is what the udall campaign has borrowed that page. host: let me show our viewers the recent ad talking about mark udall's family and legacy in politics. [video clip] >> i am cory gardner. guypponent is a real nice who will never change his image -- change the senate. he has two senators who are -- he has two cousins who are senators, too. my dad sells tractors. let's shake up the senate. i am cory gardner and i approved this message. host: is that at effective -- is that ad effective?

guest: one of the questions we wanted to ask is why mark udall was so offended by this ad. he felt it was an attack on he was upset by it. cory gardner's campaign -- the favorite headline about the ad c, democrats demand ad be pulled. i thought it was an interesting ad. more interesting was the reaction from democrats. there was talk about how the udall campaign overreacted in making this an attack. up, what iswrap going on on the ground in colorado? guest: the race is tied. democrats keep saying now our

ground game starts. we are so ahead of them that it will not be tied within a few weeks. next tuesday. out you should expect people on your doorstep nonstop. turn in your ballot as soon as you can. host: we will be watching. lynn republicans, -- another key race in georgia. one of three seats that republicans are defending. daniel malloy, washington correspond depend is down in georgia. candidates squared off in a debate. daniel malloy, what was the take away? >> caller: first off, the dominant thing was the crowd. this thing was held at the georgia state fair. candidates bussed in thousands of supporters and

it was like a boxing match to want point where a lot of people couldn't hear what the candidates were saying and they had trouble gets points across over the cheering and the jeering. but really, there were two main themes. michelle nunn the democrat going every david perdue on outsourcing in light a story where he said most of his career was spent in outsourcing. she was hammering him on that per dude keep the trike to steer the conversation back to barack obama and harry reid again and again to the point where nunn wrangled him you're running against america not obama and reed. already says i'm absolutely running against obama and reed. you have these divergent paths of nunn wanting to make this about perdue and his background and perdue

wanted to nagsize the race. >> that seems to be a theme of republican running against the democrat saying president obama is on the ballot lear and you need to vote against president obama by voting for me. is that working? is it working in georgia? >> guest: i think the polls are showing a tight race now but perdue with a decent lead and i think you know, that certainly is the strategy that they're pursuing and i think to a degree, yeah, because obama is so unpopular, his approval rating pretty down in the dumps in georgia under water and you know, the more that perdue can tie nunn to him, the sort of the better he will fare but on the flip side, a lot of michelle nunn's plan for a upset victory relies on turning out the african american base and the more

that base sees her on tv with obama, the more that base gets fired up. kind of a double edged sword but overall the strategy would seem to work because of obama aspire proval ratings. >> what is the ground game like in georgia? >> guest: you're seeing a lot of activity, the democrats more active probably than many cycleles in the past decade when these been swept out of power. and we've seen a surge of applications in voter registration. we'll know more in the coming days where the new voters are from which will give us a better idea of how they'll vote. we're hearing there have been a lot more new applications this year. people are much more interested in a normal midterm year because this is the first midterm election that has been close in sometime here. >> yeah and the front page of the atlanta journal constitution this morning georgia sees surge in voter

rolls. >> guest: yeah, that's right. that's what i was talking about. registration deadline was yesterday. we don't have a full picture yet. the numbers we have are through friday but the reality is a lot of folks are signing up and the democrats have poured a lot of money into trying to find and turn out the nevose voters. their whole theory of the case here is that the more transplants, the more african american voters, the more other minority and young voters they can find. there is a sleeping giant out there. look at other races in iowa and north coast, obama team went through there two cycles in a row trying to find these folks and no one really doing that in georgia. the democrats are really saying there's a lot of quote unquote low hanging fruit out there for them

though find and get to the polls but this is still a republican state and still definitely a tough one for democrats to get over. >> michelle nunn strategy is to jump on these comments that david perdue made about outsourcing. i want to show our viewers the ads that she put out ream on this. >> i'm michelle nunn and i approved this message. >> newspapers broke the story about david perdue n a sworn deposition, perdue was asked can you describe your experience with outsourcing? he restoppedded yeah, i spent most of my career doing that. that's right, under oath. david perdue admit he spent most of his career outsourcing jobs overseas to places like china and mexico. david perdue, he's not for you. >> danny malloy, have polls been taken since this news broke and do you think this strategy could work?

>> guest: we don't have any new polling since the story broke on friday so it is hard to say the immediate impact of this but yet, you know, it's really in line with what nunn had been doing all along after perdue won the runoff in july, nunn came out immediately and started to bash him on his business career and for the lawsuit he was involved in with dollar general. and it has been the attempt top mitt romneyize perdue as this corporate heart less, corporate greed kind of guy that doesn't scare about the common man. last night she was asking him about the minimum wage and why he doesn't want to raise minimum waged and had

this pre planned zinger that he made more in one day at dollar general than a minimum wage gee made in a year. this was her plan, trying to make him look like mitt romney is that romney won georgia by 7 points there. you have it. >> politico, too, wrote about that issue saying you shall none repeatedly hammered david perdue for outsourcing jobs in a senate debate even in response to unrelated questions, a sign her campaign believes can narrow the race that favors the gop. meanwhile, david perdue linked barack obama and slammed her over a leaked strategy that she does not care about agriculture.

more live debate coverage coming up for you tonight on c-span at 7:30 eastern. cheriup, the incumbent bustos, the democrats, against former representative bobby schilling, republican. at nine :00, the governor debate, governor pat quinn, democrat, and his republican challenger bruce rauner. next up, we take you to a discussion about online voting technology's potential use in the u.s. and the political process and security concerns about its possible implementation. a new report is out. a cochair of the house cyber on and theaucus is panel.

>> welcome, and we encourage you to to join a discussion using the #acevote. in the world of connected power, ubiquitous connectivity come almost every task can be executed online, the fact that electionsajority of are held, online voting and e-voting has the approval and -- unproven potential to make long long-distance voting easier, cut costs, and improve voter turnout for younger generations. e-votingtime, effort, benefit in terms of reach, access, and participation have the power to revolutionize the

democratic process around the world. indeed several countries, many of whom are in our audience with us today, have implemented successful e-voting already, brazil, estonia, switzerland, so we here at the atlantic council are delighted that this report is the outcome of effective top partnership between our cyber statecraft initiative and international security, the partnership they have formed with mcafee. we undertook a separate in part because of the practical results-oriented approach of our cyber team led to our expert jason healy go but it also affects the atlantic council mm into bipartisan work. this is a bipartisan issue with both sides aiming to create a cost-effective, efficient, secure, and trustworthy voting platform. it is also timely as we head into the home stretch of midterm elections next month and we face

the beginnings of what is at the unfolding presidential election two years out. as we enter the season, the council is intent on working hard to help us hit a broader public debate on the role of the united states and the world and a critical ingredient to this debate is the extent to which our own public engages in the discussion, especially through voting, so this report makes clear that online voting and e- voting could become a larger part of the political process in the united states and in other participatory democracies if the security is in place, and i think that is the key element of a. a nonpartisans is issue and endeavor, so our focus today is to highlight the new digital democracy is possible if we can get the security questions right and create trustworthy platforms. online voting is among those transformative technologies like the smart grid and for what's we must get security right to fully a markets potential. we are delighted that during the

course of our program we will use technology to welcome the discussion representative jim langevin, a ranking member of the house armed services subcommittee on intelligence and emerging threats and capabilities, has become a national leader on the issue of securing our nation's infrastructure in cyber threats and cofounded the congressional cyber security caucus. one of his staff members as part of our next generation programming and is with us today. welcome. we are delighted to have your and for all of the work you are doing as well. tomuld like to welcome guann of mcafee p or he began as career on capitol hill as legislative director to congressman, gamble -- tom campbell at the time.

for house cyber security can lay a powerful role and enhance the well-being, with that, i look forward to us getting into this report and exploring that both here in the conversation and online, so tom, i welcome you to the podium. [applause] i would like to thank the atlantic council for hosting the event of rain together such a distinguished panel. the atlantic council is one of the leading think tanks in the world, and jason healey's leadership has been truly

impressive. he has indeed developed a very fine cyber security process that has made significant contribution to the debate here in washington. the atlantic council and mcafee is part of intel security has started a journey to change the nature of the cyber security debate. our goal is to move the public discussion from one that all too often focuses on doom and gloom to one that focuses on the age of the possible. we believe that cyber security can play a powerful role in the betterment of people's lives. the right security can enable more opportunities for people to vote. security can enable secure access to online information and services. the right security can enable innovations in the area of transportation, indeed in the area of true innovations such as

driverless cars. our session today about the promise of online voting starts the discussion on the art of the possible. we welcome the active an engagement from stakeholders in government, the private sector, and academia. consensus on the positive role that cyber security can play in improving the lives of people is a vital addition to the debate. this debate for too long has been dominated by doom and gloom, the threat landscape, and an over emphasis on regulation. perspectiveitive that understands the importance of innovation and promise is a necessary addition to the debate. wille positive approach enable the policymaking process to be more balanced, to focus less on regulation and more on

the true promise of security and the power of innovation to move markets and bring better and more secure products to the marketplace. moving forward, we are planning studynch a follow on a that will focus on the importance of security in the area of health care. we now turn to the discussion at hand, the matter of e-voting. , please follow us at #acevote

and joined the discussion on twitter. we will not get into a discussion on the biographies of people in front of you. you each have that. we will do just a quick introduction. jord right, we have i from scytl, the company in evolvedvoting and countries around the world to allow people to vote. to my right, pamela. pamela smith has been involved in electronic voting, as has joe hall on my left, and you can see in their biographies many different areas to try to get are the most possible things in the near term and which things will take longer. -- t land filled from mcafee on my

left, getting security would to work so we can unlock the promise of the most innovative technologies. i wanted to start with jordi, and your company has been in this field, you have been presented with these heart problems and have to get solutions around this. what are the technologies we are really looking at here, and a howard you been able to deploy them into the field? >> thanks. first of all, i want to thank the atlantic council for allowing me to participate in this panel. in terms of the interaction of our company, our company has votingplying to internet , and from the beginning, we know that the main problem of thetronic voting is not matter of standards of using it from security, so we use

security, and we designed protocols to try to solve complex problems. one of the main problems is we need to preserve privacy to voters not only for the -- during the voting process but also due to the encryption process, and this is in the neck and be used in electronic transactions. so we start to think about how to do this, we are using protocols for allowing this, for providing this, and then another thing we are doing and also providing -- it is not only a matter of providing privacy but a third point that is very important -- we are managing an election not only on internet voting by traditional election also is to allow people and allow third parties to provide that transparency.

that it is more difficult to provide when we are moving in an electronic environment, so now we are also providing this. provides togy also the norwegian country, and also in switzerland, they also use the verifiability is very important to online voting. case, they had changes on the standards to require electronic voting, especially online voting in switzerland, in theh the user's verifiability is important to allow voters to cast their vote. this is a specific case in switzerland. they started setting up up to 10% of the electoral vote.

we are allowed to vote online. they have pilots for allowing internet voters and they say they want to manage the risk of introducing internet voting in this country. currently they changed the law inthey change the standard case of the different countenance doing referendums, they want to increase the number of the population that can use internet voting in of these referendums, in case they want to increase the number of of the fullp to 50% growth of the voters, they need to introduce verifiability. one of the things we have seen that is pretty important for providing security or to manage the risk presence on internet voting is the verifiability to check that. milley said he thing is happening in a proper way.

at least everything is happening in a proper way. >> you mentioned two separate technologies. on one hand, we are talking but electronic voting, but you had also mentioned in internet voting. can you just walk us through and what do we mean by both of these? inetimes when we add an e front of it we assume we're talking about internet, but i don't think you were, so can you qualify? means using electronic means were casting a vote, not only online but also in polling stations using the standalone machines. like if i go in and it is a touchscreen, that might be considered e-voting, but it is not on my voting. >> exactly. e-voting is focused on specific machines the open thevoting is a

door to use -- open the door to voters because the voters come. you can vote at home. in this case, the voting turnout vice,ey have voting del the security risks are higher in these cases, and in the requirement for providing so forth against any context during the voting process or more important. >> and this is apparently where you have been spending a lot of your time, you and joe both. any thoughts on the things that jordi mentioned? >> first, thank you also for having us all here. i appreciate it. i agree strongly with the white

that the report made about the difficulties challenging solving the security privacy issues. polling station or via a voting machine, there are a number of issues that may come up. for example, if the equipment to break down, you need something else to vote on to replace it otherwise people are disenfranchised by that malfunction, so typically the backup is a paper ballot. your standard voting system in a polling place is a paper ballot counted by an electronic machine, even if the electronic counting machine breaks down, people can still vote, so one of the key issues you are looking for in a voting system is availability to the voter when it is time to vote. with an online voting system, there may be challenges with

availability if, for example, there is some kind of denial of service attack that could occur during the voting period, particularly during the last phase where everyone has to leave everything for the last few minutes. >> this would hit the united states to because constitutionally we are voting on one day. you can say ok, we can spread out the voting over longer period . if all of the voting is having on a single day, summary can just rent a denouncer. >> that is partly true. some states do early voting and then an absentee ballot is done over a longer period of time but what is key here is there is a deadline, so in the event that a denial of service attacks caused a major disruption and it has happened in a time frame where there is no more time to solve that problem, there is no voting sort of after election date, so the deadline factor is key.

there is a lot of work being done to handle the problems that can arise, and even simple failures, we have seen failures of online voting registration systems that happened right before the deadline and cause some people not to be able to register to vote in time for the upcoming election, so timing is important, but it is also important to note that is most elections are run, they run in the united states anyway, they are run by local jurisdictions, and local jurisdictions are counties or townships or parishes, and those counties tend not to have great, big i.t. budgets with lots of funding for i.t. staff and really robust capabilities for avoiding the

downside of the attacks that may be a major corporation even has challenges avoiding they are putting millions of dollars behind that, so that is another -- we have a think about how elections are conducted. promise that any robust democracy makes to its citizens, to its electors as that it what provide them with justified confidence in the outcome, any voting system you use has to be able to demonstrate clearly to the loser and their supporters that they lost, and to do that, you need actual evidence. voters need to be able to see that their votes were captured the way that they meant for them to be and election officials need to be able to use that evidence to demonstrate and that both were counted correctly, so that is what we look for in any voting system. >> wow. wife that is a good baseline. >> right.

it seems like it should be so easy -- we are voting for who is the best singer, who has the best variety act on television. are a lot of folk saying we ought to be able to have this? this is for either of the two of you. is there a lot of demand saying how come i cannot just vote on my phone? >> at first there is the question -- we do everything up; wife would we not do this online, too? online, everything else why would we not do this online, too? without getting to the last step ballotsmitting a voted over the dangerous internet, but you could do things like register online, you can get ballots to someone who is remotely located, say military and overseas voters, who after additionally had a hard time getting to be able to vote in time, get their ballots back in time. if you can transmit a ballot to them instantly, you have cut off a big chunk of the time they need in order to get the problem

solved, so there are many things we do online, but what most people do not think about until is sort of talk it through that elections have special properties that other online transactions simply don't have. the anonymity property that votes are supposed to be anonymous, separate from your identity, you have to authenticate that the voter is an eligible voter but then you separate that identity from their actual vote. that is a really challenging problem in auditing generally. >> regarding the young generation pushing for online voting, yes, usually the experience we have, or least we checked the statistics about who is using online voting, young people usually tend to use more online voting. in the experience that we introduce online voting, where not talking about substituting

completely any kind of voting with online or electronic voting. in this case talking about in france where they're using online voting for over -- after using two or three times, more than 50% of overseas voters are choosing internet voting, they can vote in person. currently the statistics -- especially when you're talking about remote voting, remote voting can be online by electronic means. are can be postal voting. they prefer to move to internet

voting. so the internet voting would be more feedback. -- >> so the internet would give more immediate feedback rather than sending a stamp and sending it off. people understand to an actual letter when they send it off, but he will have no idea what happens to their ballot. >> your mail ballots can often be trackable. one of my favorite stories demonstrates that we don't really know yet about who wants to use it and how the public uses it, and is there a measurable impact on turnout. i think there is still more research to be done. in a place in ontario where they decided to experiment and a pilot allowing online voting. they had a 300% increase in turnout in early voting, but

zero turnout increase overall. what that meant was that people who were going to vote anyway tried out this method, but it did make more people vote. >> that isi interesting. here.ing to turn to joe one of the things you helped with when we are reviewing the paper was, internet voting isn't just the casting of the vote. that was an important change to the paper we added in, there is the registration, there is the collection and processing of the votes. internet doesn't just have to be the clicking next to a name. you can look at all these different places in ways that we can improve the process. i was really glad for your input for that part of the paper.

i had first started to get interested in digital voting, electronic voting, or in the early 1990's, because we were writing about the third wave, newt gingrich joined in and they were doing books and writing together to say we can have a truer, freer democracy, more like the founding fathers wanted, where we can come together and issue our votes on home computers. they weren't thinking about phones back then. and help us find this better democracy. but that was 20 years ago. and it's coming together in some places. what is the timeframe looking like here?

>> i have got a few positive things to say, but a lot of what i'm going to say unfortunately is doom and gloom and very debbie downer, for lack of a better word. the vast majority of experts that work on voting security and voting technology would agree that somewhere in the 30 year to 40 year timeline is the point where we have the infrastructure that can support secure online voting. >> 30 years to 40 years, starting in the mid-90's? >> no, sir, starting right now. >> oh, my goodness. >> there's very good reasons for that. make no mistake, we have to solve this kind of problem. the reason we have to do that is to the extent that we want to have remotely physically distributed representative democracy, there's going to be situations in which physical exchange of matter is impossible. say two colonies on mars. this may be a thing in the

future. there are places where exchanging physical matter to be the auditable record of the vote is going to be extremely challenging, if not impossible. you either have autonomous, separate democratic bodies or you have to have some way of doing this kind of thing securely. not only that, the positive externality of doing work on this is that to the extent you solve some of the challenging problems here, the core cyber security issues that we work on every day, that has a lot of benefit for other kinds of applications you can do on the internet. the one trick here is there are number of risks that are solvable, some are not. we can go through them real quick. when we talk about internet voting, it is on uncontrolled platforms. if you're going to do some critical democratic process like voting online, you don't want to leave that up to the security of

people's desktops, laptops, and phones. you have a lot of crap on your desktops, laptops, and phones. you may not even know the extent that you have that stuff on there. moreover the intelligence communities around the world have made a business lately of undermining the infrastructure of the internet in such a way that you don't know exactly what is happening with this stuff. the unsupervised nature of internet voting, and this is similar to the vote by mail, so one dirty secret from the security and private extra to work on this stuff the vote by mail is an unfortunate legacy , thing we can't get rid of. it has the property that, unfortunately it's very easy to coerce people that are voting in an unsupervised environment in a place where you don't have someone making sure the proper policies are in place so that someone cannot sort of force you to reveal your vote to them and things like that. people don't realize this but there's a great paper i can point you to that shows you

before around 1900 with the adoption of the secret ballot in the u.s., election day was a payday for some people. you to get a couple months' pay for proving to someone how you voted. once the australian secret ballot, which is a government printed standard ballot cast in secret, once that spread, voter participation dropped precipitously because you no longer could make a connection between how people cast votes and the person paying it. the election went the other way. it is not worth my while to actually buy these votes. >> i know the estonian system allows you to vote multiple times and only your last vote cast actually counts toward the election. i would think that the technology might help provide a more elegant solution for this.

>> those are things that help. none of those are perfect. no one can take your government id card after they watched you vote and not let you have it back until the deadline. there's a lot of layered techniques that adversaries can do. it makes it harder, but at the same time -- there are records of how people voted which is contrary to having anonymity, and they have an injured structure where everyone has a cryptographic key associated to your identity and used for a whole bunch of other things. it's almost embedded in how you interact with government. we do not have that, and it is very unlikely we will have that. >> if we had to have a national id card so we could all vote digitally, i think it would be a long time coming. >> that is true. a quick point i want to make, there are two other risks that are important to mention. one is the opportunity of wholesalers and retail kind of attacks. paper balloting is no panacea in

the sense that you can do a lot of things like ballot stuffing. i a lot of it ends up being retail which means you have to touch a lot of stuff, a lot of boxes, a lot of ballots in order to accomplish those kinds of attacks, whereas being a purely software-based thing, if you find one problem say a heartbleed, if you're recording all the encrypted traffic, these are serious things that any system that said it was secure was not secure the next day. the final thing, by having publicly routable in points, servers that are excepting votes online, you expose the probability that someone might be able to attack the stuff to anyone in the world compared to a more controlled type of system. the second you have some really attractive candidate that hackers really like, a second that happens in an internet balloting election, that person will win. i can bet you $100 right now that will happen.

because they will find a way to subvert them in some way. >> especially in countries where it is winner take all, you can certainly imagine someone spending a million dollars is not a bad investment for a piece of malicious software that would try to subvert the election. that would be small change, and i like that wholesale versus retail. but we know were going to need to do this. we cannot just be saying in 50 years or 100 years, and we are still filling out paper and still doing these touchscreen machines and worrying about hanging chads and the rest. kent, you are in cleanup here. >> one of the things we need to

understand is that voting started very early in our republic where you would have to go to the courthouse and be sworn in by a judge. there was no real registration process at the time. from that you would then voice your choice to a panel of folks who were keeping the tally. that was very useful because it did allow us to have outside observers see really what the vote was, and to have a very consistent vote. fast-forward to the 1990's were you start to see electronics come in to the voting process, voting machines that are used for casting as well as tabulating votes. the technology has sort of driven some of the processes of what we do today. those machines are very costly. we try to have elections together, federal, state, and local. we try to do that and established polling places where the equipment can be brought in and the like.

today we are dealing with a very different world than we dealt with just 10 years ago. iphone was not around. we didn't have the mobility that we have today that is driving the need and want to be able to vote from something other than those established polling places. the problem is that we are in a situation where technology is changing very quickly, but we're looking at a problem itself that does not lend itself to operating well in the generic internet environment that we have today. identity is a real problem today. identifying somebody definitively is something that has to be there to support the one man, one vote aspects. efforts such as the national strategy of trusted identity in

cyberspace are advancing this in a very positive way from an identity perspective. there are standards efforts in aroundf, working group trying to figure out how to really provide real identity on the internet. >> the ietf? >> oh, sorry the internet , engineering task force. they have established most of the standards that we operate under today with the internet. the key here is that we are starting to see some of the building blocks of technology that will make the infrastructure possible. today we don't have an infrastructure that can successfully work well in guaranteeing electronic voting online. there's too many ways it can be

circumvented and attacked. attacked at the server and the pc's where they are casting their vote. botnets that capture keystrokes and look for certain types of activities can really be modified very easily to use that targeting internet voting. with that said the reality of , what we're seeing is technology is moving forward. we are evolving rather quickly in the last 10 years and i don't , expect that advancement to be reduced over the next 20. the focus that we need to have is to look at really what the requirements are for internet voting. they are different than e-commerce. as such, we need to address them specifically. we need to make sure there are

real standards in place so that the folks -- the security experts reviewing the different parts of the infrastructure actually have the means to have a consistent view of what's occurring. today we have a lot of proprietary means for -- in the e-voting arena and we need to have this to be much more open and standardized so that we can see and evaluate the voting mechanisms for the security threats that could compromise the national elections. >> i feel like to some degree we are not all saying -- to some degree we have to fix the internet. the problem we've talked about is attacks that are inherent in the infrastructure that we have or the difficulty of identity, so it sounds like because the internet itself is pretty shaky, that anything that has to be --

have the things jordi talked about, audit transparency, is going to be shaky. although i do wonder if some of what we tend to be thinking about, especially as americans, we tend to think about the big national elections held in november and held for hundreds of millions of people. it seems like there interesting case studies happening in other ordi's company is doing or jurisdictions that are much smaller. maybe for a citywide election or other areas. is that a good way to start building? i don't know, jordi, the want to respond to other things we talked about? how does this work when it's not a big national election for huge country, but building from the ground up? >> i think what is important -- one thing is i agree there are

risks, security risks when we are introducing internet voting. the way to manage this is to provide the proper measures for managing these risks. is something done in national elections and it's something that is done with internet voting. there are countries that when they started to introduce internet voting, they are introducing internet voting involving also academic and security experts that have the security requirements they need to implement things in a proper way. and then what are the security requirements that need to be fulfilled by any voting platform that needs to be put in place. they are starting not for the entire electoral vote but to a

specific group of voters so they can start to pilot these and see the reaction of the people. if they see that things are stable and they can trust what is happening, and this involves security experts about how things are happening there. but it is important, it seems sometimes we are continuing the risk of other voting channels. sometimes you can solve these risks him and you mentioned that in the case of estonia, norway

and other countries using -- to be sure that they are real voters. it is important that they can continue to solve problems in other voting channels. >> how is norway using -- >> norway's using multiple voting. >> at what scale? local, regional -- >> it is at a municipal level. 12 municipalities were using internet voting, and they are thinking about introducing it to other municipalities. they are allowed to vote multiple times and voters can also vote at polling stations. willvote is the vote that be counted in the case that the voter voted multiple times.

>> interesting. any other thoughts in this question about scale? >> i think the pilots are really important. you cannot see them naïvely as being a surefire way of getting to where you want to go. to the extent that we want to run things in elections that we really care about, you have to run them in elections we don't care as much about. in the big one for sure. mr. tony soprano looking at a $150 million bond for a landfill or something and saying i just spent a million dollars to throw this local election. there are some cases where you will see things like that being pretty serious. at the same time, you got to do it somewhere. for example, i live in tacoma park, which ran the first fully end-to-end auditable election in an actual government election, which is a really big

learning opportunity in terms of making sure that people can use these things. the real challenge, and this is something i work on every day, making sure that putting a piece of paper in the ballot box is something people can understand. we have thousands of years of experience of doing stuff like that, whereas photography, i can talk to you about a box with two -- whereas cryptography, i can talk to you about a box with two locks on it, but it's not going to give you the smart high school level, i can actually do the math on my own and get to the end. we need to get to where things are that simple where you can walk or the protocol yourself, being a smart high schooler, which is my lowest common denominator.

>> they're very few public test opportunities before you are running an election with real votes in real time, you need to have the opportunity for hackers to have at that system. in cases where that has been allowed like the d.c. case in 2010 where they ran a test before using the system in a live election, and it was breached inside of 36 hours. it's a really interesting scenario, but they had to be authorized to do this. had that not been a white hat hacker, had it been somebody who had malicious intent, they might have breached the system without letting anybody know and then had their way with the results. so it's really important there be these public testing opportunities and that the results of those public tests are made available so that we can learn from them. >> that was such a beautiful attack. >> let's talk about it real quickly. within 36 hours found a way, when you type in a file name and sometimes the idea was

you upload a pdf of your ballot. it goes and finds your file and puts it in there. they found a way of getting crazy characters into the file name that basically got you complete control of the system and that automated a little programming language that allowed them to change every single ballot to a write in vote for evil computer movies. like hal-9000 and things like that and then they modified the web form where you did this stuff to play the michigan fight song after you cast a ballot. so you had people saying -- hey, , weird this patriotic sounding music, it's the michigan fight song. >> worst of all is the elections director was a buckeye. >> we have been talking about the internet is so difficult to secure, but if that almost every level we have these

vulnerabilities. this came up earlier. you're working on these untrusted machines on this untrusted network. that doesn't make it impossible, but it means you need to be going through each and every step on this untrusted stuff and say how can we get it trustworthy enough so that it's as least as trustworthy as the paper of the stuff it's going to replace. that can become a very difficult spot, especially when the manufacturers of this gear aren't always as nice as d.c. was. they put it up online so it could get tested. when it got hacked, they did try to go to prosecutors. they said maybe in fact it is not ready for prime time. >> part of the issue here is that we are trying to solve a problem in a very small scale and it has to operate in a very large scale. we have different types of

elections. we have federal, state, and local, and each has its own specific needs and requirements. when you're looking at a microcosm of a local election, it's easy to see how electronic voting, online voting could potentially work. but it doesn't scale to a state or large u.s. kind of national election. the problem really is that this needs to be a designed aspect instead of an emerging aspect. if we don't want to wait 30 years to get the internet as stable as it could be to support electronic voting online, then we need to start looking at how we can design the voting system to ride on top of that kind of infrastructure knowing the infrastructure itself is not as secure as we would want.

with mobile computing, with and internet of things and the other types of new advances we are seeing, 2008 the iphone, 2009 it came out. it's a very fast-moving world. we are going to have to have a means to secure the voting needs on top of a potentially un-trusting environment. it's a different type of looking at the problem. if we can address the problem in that kind of fashion, then it doesn't matter whether you doing it from your iwatch or from your computer at home, or if it is a voice recognition thing when you walk into a polling place or an absentee ballot from mars. >> i can't tell you how much kent calling this standardized stuff resonates with me because if you look at cryptography, you throw a bunch of ideas out there in a very open fashion. you get the best people in the world to bang away with it.

it's a pretty good way to identify flaws that you may not have seen. >> jordi? >> i want to mention something. the way we are now focusing on how to monitor this risk in internet voting, things are evolving and it's impossible to say that 20 years from now the internet will be completely secure. we will have new threats, so the idea of the verifiability is the same idea of the election. you cannot say i have bots and nobody can open this. it is something you cannot control. the idea that it is possible to verify what is happening in the voting process. the voter for instance can check

that, at the end, the electronic in the stored, protected server, really contains the so the results really represent the content of the vote. if you can't verify this in a way that you can have 100% sure that nobody manipulated things, then you can react. if the voters see that it has been received by the server, may be it is a traditional web for casting a vote. it's a way to say i have no security problems now, but maybe in the future i hacker may find a way to bypass some security measure and manipulate my vote. but if i cannot detect the manipulation, then i cannot react.

>> the notion of future proofing. you want your vote to be private, not only now but for a long time in the future, to the extent that the lincoln figured -- that someone can figure out how we voted in the past or near our record of whatever they wanted to do with that information. some cryptographers have developed ways of creating protocol that basically say no matter what could happen in the future, your vote is safe at least up until we have quantum computers that can crack this stuff. that's the kind of thing i like to hear people worrying about because i worry about my vote in 15 years. >> everlasting privacy. >> this idea about cryptographic our rhythms that cannot be broken now, but maybe in the future. we hqu