heard, the centers for disease control in atlanta will update on the investigation into "case in dallas and other recent cases of infection. live coverage of that briefing starting at noon eastern. also coming up at 3:00, and arkansas senate today between mark pryor and republican tom cotton, nathan lafrentz, and green party candidate mark sweeney. tonight at 8:00, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, democrat challenger allison grimes, will debate on kentucky education. real clear politics shows senator mcconnell with a narrow lead. be a part of the c-span 2014 coverage.

follow us on twitter and the like us on facebook. clips, debates from our policy team, over 170 house and governor debates, and you can instantly share your reaction to what the candidates are saying. stay in touch and engaged by following us on twitter and by liking us on facebook. recently, former senate leaders tom daschle of south dakota and tom daschle -- trent locke talk about working together during impeachment proceedings and after the september 11 attacks. he also talked about the upcoming midterm election. this event is courtesy of south dakota public broadcasting.

i think they built to buildings .around -- two buildings around the old student union and i believe the new football practice is silly, you could have fit the student body, when senator daschle was here, in that facility. i am going to get to the point. dr. lee, make sure i did not bury the lead in dr. miller. and dr. hogan, who set lot of the ground rules here early. this is a dialogue. it is not a debate. but there will be differences. we hope to get into those tonight as we go forward. a year ago tonight, the government shutdown. it seems appropriate that we gather here, in this environment, and talk about partisanship and whether or not there is such a thing.

the senate recently has been described as equipment of mass dysfunction. i think that is probably a pretty good description. the ratings of congress are so low that senator john mccain says it is basically down to members themselves and to their staff members who did the only people that are saying that they are approving of congress. but not too long ago, these two leaders were leading in a time when we got some things done in this country. it came at a time when, above everything else, they put partisanship aside. we are going to discuss this tonight in a little bit. let's take a look at one day, above all others, where they were leaders that started to define the recent history of this country.

let's take a look and then we will get on to our discussion. [applause] >> at a time like this, no words that we should utter today, this evening, can help the hearts and souls and feelings of the victims and the families that were a part of this great tragedy that happened in this country today. our prayers, thoughts, and words of consolation go out to all of those who have suffered. but one thing that happens here, in this place, is when america suffers and when people perpetrate acts against this country, we, as a congress and a government, stand united. and we stand together.

[applause] senators and house members, democrats and republicans, will stand shoulder to shoulder to fight this evil that has been perpetrated in this nation. we will stand together to make sure that those who brought forth this evil deed will pay the price. we are not sure who this is yet. [applause] but we have our suspicions. and when that is justified and when those suspicions are justified, we will act. we will stand with the president, we will stand with this government, and we will stand, as americans, together through this time. thank you.

[applause] >> today's despicable acts were an assault on our people and on our freedom. as the representative of the people, we are here to declare that our resolve has not been weakened by these horrific and cowardly acts. congress will convene tomorrow. [applause] and we will speak with one voice to condemn these attacks, to come for the victims and their families, to commit our full support to the effort to bring

those responsible to justice. we, republicans and democrats, house and senate, stand strongly united behind the president and will work together to ensure that the full resources of the government are brought to bear in these efforts. our heartfelt thoughts and our fervent prayers are with the injured and families of those who have been lost. [applause] >> we know, as a nation, as we have said, our thoughts and prayers are with those families

and those injured and those who are the casualties of today's attack. we also remember those thousands of people who were rescue workers. we ask now that we all bow our heads in a moment of silence and remembrance. thank you. >> ♪ land that i love ♪ >> senator lott, what does this bring you back to? >> it was a startling and

memorable day, to say the least. i started the day off in my office, looking at that view right behind tom. and i saw the first plane go into the tower. we started getting reports and then, of course, a staff member came running in and said, they've hit the pentagon. we could see the smoke billowing up. i went back to my desk, picked up my red phone and said, tom, i think we need to get out of here. he was the majority leader then and had to give the order. by that time, our security detail came in. i remember it so vividly because we round up at the police station, the air force base, and a helicopter came and picked me up. i do not know exactly where we were. it came back that night after we

learned a few things about what happened. that singing at the end was totally spontaneous. we did not know that was going to happen. i thought that was one of the most -- one of the great moment in history, actually. the members of congress came back to the steps of the capital and said, we are going to be in session. we are not going to be intimidated by this horrific act. i could write a dissertation on all of the emotions and what happened that day. the most important part about that day was what happened after that, how we came together to get what was necessary done for new york, for our military, and to pursue the people who caused those events. and we did it working together. tom and i went through a lot of legislation that fall. i am very proud to talk about the fact that the senate, by the end of that year, had reached and 82 approval rating.

do you know why it was that way? because they saw us working together for the good of the country, above politics and bipartisanship. [applause] >> senator daschle, you were with john and he said that no pilot would do that. he knew right away. do you recall that? >> that is right. john had come into -- both of our offices were in the center of the complex. people would just drop by. john was having an interview in a little while with cnn and came by for a couple coffee. we were talking in front of my television. my god, i said, look at that. a pilot just flew into that building. he looked at that and said, that is not a pilot. it is something much more serious than that. i began a leadership meeting

shortly after that and we were sitting around a table. i remember patty murray, the senator from washington, look out my window and said, my goodness. look at all that smoke. we rushed to the window and there was smoke billing out of the pentagon. at that point, trent called and said, we have got to get out of here. we were rushed to the doors. i remember senator byrd carrying all of these important documents with both arms, running. i was concerned for his safety, of course. but that is where it all started. >> in retrospect, do you think that was a high or low point in your leadership? that day, the leadership that you displayed and the leadership that was shown that day, in the sense that it was a tragic day, but do you look back on it with hope or regret?

>> i look back at it, as trent said so eloquently, it was a time of incredible unity. i remember people going to the floor, one after another, saying, i am no longer a republican or a democrat. i am an american. there was a sense of patriotism and commitment to country, a sense of resolve and unity that really was inspiring and moving and energizing. from that perspective, it was incredibly a moment of great pride as we look back. i think what i regret is that it takes a crisis of that kind to create the unity and to create that kind of environment and that political determination to work so closely together to accomplish a problem. [applause] >> less than six weeks later, did you think that that was another terror -- terrorist

attack from the same group? i think you were up on the hill that day, too. were you scared for the country at that moment? >> i thought it was just another stop in what could have been a series of attacks. we did not know what to think. usually, the youngest staff members that you have are the ones working in the mailroom, opening those letters, which could have had anthrax in them. but we were concerned about tom and other senators and his staff, what we were going to do to deal with that. the postmaster in the senate was a classmate of mine from high school. he had to deal with all that we had to do to check the mail. it was another example of how

members pulled together. i was in the russell building and you were in the other building. senators from other parties started giving senators their extra office space. there was no incentive to do that, they just started doing that. in the cafeteria, all of the senators, republican and democrat, talked about what happened, what we're going to do about it. the atmosphere was one of great concern. it was also one of camaraderie, expression of concern for each other. it was one of those magic moments that we experienced several times when we were the leaders where we had to get on our knees and get together in the old senate chamber or the senate dining room and, as one group, make decisions that were right for the moment and for the country. they do not do that anymore.

it is one of the things that tom and i -- there should be a more regular opportunity to get together across party lines. >> could you go through the legislation that was passed in the two or three months after 9/11? >> there were so many pieces. one of the most controversial was the patriot act. as we look back, i would like to revise many of the things we decided to do at the time. trent said something a moment ago and i agree. we did the best we could given the circumstances and the understanding we had, the knowledge and the intelligence that we were given. looking back, the whole issue of national security changed when we experienced 9/11.

the realization that it would never be the same. the creation of the homeland security department was part of that agenda. homeland security had been a very disparate entity through a lot of different agencies. we brought them altogether. that too was controversial and coupling hated. it got political at times. -- and complicated. it got political at times. but i think we did a good job. creating the framework for security in a different context. we always thought of it as more of an international and military complex. it was now much more local, much more personal, far more pervasive than it had been before. that was another piece of legislation we had to address. >> we passed some legislation to help new york city, of course. and we passed legislation to deal with problems a were having in the aviation industry after that day, too.

people quit flying and they had real losses. it was a whole period of legislation. tom and i went up to new york city after that event. i remember saying, when we were there, they hit new york city, they hit america. we are all in this together. and we did that. we kept our word. >> i know you have said since you have left the senate that there was another period of crisis in the country where you felt that there was productive work done and that was the impeachment of president clinton. could you talk about that? it was 10 in -- it was tenuous that day. can you talk about what led to that moment? what's i remember the call. it was my birthday. trent called me and the house had just enacted to impeach the president. i was running an errand that

afternoon and he said, now it is in our lap, now it is up to us. the one thing we have got to understand is we have got to rise to the occasion. we have got to do everything we can to make this a deep political -- politicized experience and get through this god-awful mess we are facing. impeachment had not occurred for the president in over 100 years. we first had to learn just what happens, how do you do this? how do you manage and imprisonment -- an impeachment trial in the united states senate? who knows these things? we began a great deal of research with staff, just trying to create a mechanism or putting the pieces in place to conduct the impeachment trial. now the question is, when do we do this? the sooner we get it behind us, the better. however it turns out. we decided it was going to be the first order of business when

we came back in january. piece by piece and step-by-step, it came together and we got through it in reasonably good shape. >> in that conversation with tom, we agreed that we would get a couple of senators to take a look at the history and what we needed to do and come up with some recommendations. i selected the senator from washington state and he selected joe lieberman from connecticut. in a short period of time, they came back with their recommendation. a short way to describe it was it was going to be an abbreviated proceeding. when i presented that to the republican conference, they did everything but stoned me and throw me out into the street. some of my best and said no, we are not going to do it that way. they were not happy with it. they had some legitimate arguments so i had to call tom and say, this is not going to work so then we were kind of

flummoxed. we did not know how we would proceed and get this whole thing done. someone came up with this idea -- we wound up meeting in the whole senate chamber, which is a hell of a place. i gave a lot to it and called on denier cockup -- danny to open up the session with prayer. and then i called on bob byrd to give us perspective. i did ask him to be brief -- [laughter] but he gave us a really good outline. and then we started the discussion. finally, kenneth -- kennedy got up, ted kennedy, and made some suggestions about how we can proceed. and then the old republican from texas got up and started

talking. and i realized, they were saying about the same thing. with a nod from connie mack from florida, we said, we have the solution. we're going to go with the brown-kennedy proposal of how to go forward. everybody was ecstatic. we came up with a solution and it was ted kennedy, the liberal democrat from massachusetts, and graham, the conservative republican from texas. i said, tom, do you know what we really agreed to? [laughter] we went out and had a great press conference announcing this great agreement and then we decided a group of senators would sit down and render it to writing. i do not remember what the agreement was, but it broke the dam and we went forward and we got it done in a dignified way because it was our constitutional responsibility.

some people said you could have removed him if he wanted to. no. most of my life, i was a went -- a whip. i counted votes in the proper way. so the question was, how could we pick up and carry this for our country? the following thursday, bill clinton called me and, without even mentioning what had happened, started talking about legislation he was interested in and we went forward. and it worked. it worked because we worked together and our colleagues realized that this was an historical moment. we can embarrass ourselves. every proposal that we made, my colleagues on my side of the aisle, they wanted witnesses. they wanted monica lewinsky to be a witness. and i said, never. would i agree to demean the senate and treat it like it was a regular court proceeding?

we are going to do this with dignity in a way it has been done historically and it is not going to include that. i think that was one of the moments where tom and i felt the bond of trust in each other. i remember still, and i have seen the picture where we stepped across the aisle from each other, shook hands, and said, we got it done. now let's go forward. [applause] >> the thing that i think most people forget is that right after the votes on impeachment, there was a bomb scare. we all had to leave the building. this was in the 1990's. nobody knew where to go. my security team had no idea of what we needed to do. so i ended up walking through the space museum for about two hours until it was safe to come back. i will never forget that. it was probably the best tour of the space museum i ever had. it was like 10 minutes after a vote on impeachment. i am thinking, what a contrast.

>> that makes the point to my next question. can you explain to us what was so funny in this picture? >> tom had told a dirty joke. [laughter] >> i thought maybe you were sharing john mccain's story. >> that picture was taken by a wonderful photographer who asked if he could follow me around for about a week. and we let him. trent was good enough to say, yeah, if you want to do this -- so he had enormous access. that is the only time i can recall ever doing that. but that picture was taken while we were negotiating the 50-50 senate. i do not know what was funny at the time, but i am glad we found some humor in it. that was in the year 2000. >> top was the majority -- tom was the majority leader. i guess we still had the

minority because we had the vice presidents vote. the leaders now, i doubt if they ever grace each other's offices. the whole between my office and tom's office went both ways. he came to my office and i went to his office. what a small thing to do. how ridiculous would you be that you would not go to the other leaders office? that was one of the things we did to keep an easy relationship. sitting at that desk, we laughed and we cried some, too. >> i was thinking senator daschle just told him that senator jeffords was going to switch parties. >> some other time, we both would have changed numbers. >> let's switch gears and talk about the institution itself both of you served in the house as well. it has been said that the senate is like the saucer that cools

the hot coffee. today, it just seems to be dysfunctional. do you think it is personality? do you think it is partisanship? what do you think it is that is driving it? >> it is an array of things. it is partisanship, personality, the times. the times have changed i blame the airplane, in part. in the old days, when travel was not nearly as convenient as it is today, people stayed in washington for large blocks of time and then they would go back to their homes for equally big blocks -- not equal, but significant time. nowadays, people literally leave on thursdays to come home or do their fundraising and come back on tuesdays. and we try to govern on wednesdays. you just cannot do that. that, to me, is one of the

single biggest challenges we are facing. the senate is only in session this year, out of 365 days, they are only in session 109 days. of those days, only about one third of that time is synchronized with the house. about two thirds of the time, the house is not in session. so there is no way to correlate, do the kind of coordination necessary to move meaningful legislation, to work together. not to mention the fact, and this is such a big topic that we could go on for the rest of the time, but i think i would start with that. there are many other aspects to it. >> you both have come up with some proposals, including being in session five days a week. >> some of them are just common sense. the job is in washington. do you want to stay in touch with your constituency? sure. i wanted to be in mississippi. i always kept my home in mississippi and would go there.

but you are elected to go to washington on behalf of the people. we do not vote by referendum. we vote based on being elected and learning about the issues of voting for the people. we recommended simple things like they should be in session five days a week. stay in session three solid weeks, five days. what is a work week? five days, right? why shouldn't congress do that? then you can go home in your state and do your constituency work then. the house is in two weeks and out two weeks. the senate is kind of in and out. it is supposed to be three and one, but they do not work that many hours, really. also, they are not coordinated, like tom says. it is one of the many things that has led to what we see. we do not want to be preaching

from the stands to the people on the field. look what we did. there are a lot of reasons or it. one of the things is the american people being more involved and paying attention. the solution is not just throw the bums out because a lot of the problems have not been caused by the new members of congress. the new members are -- look i am a very conservative republican. moving to the right, they have a lot of room. [applause] [laughter] i do. know when i became an establishment moderate -- i do not know when i became an establishment moderate. there is not much middle. the leaders have trouble keeping their teams in place.

we need some leaders that will step up, whether it is a president of the united states, the majority leader of the senate, the minority leader, the speaker of the house, somebody in the leadership. to say, we have to stop this for america. what we need are leaders who will lead. [applause] >> on that point, do you think that congress is more of a reflection of the divisions in the country, or a cause of that? the reason that i ask is that there are new statistics about the way the country is congregating. people that think and live alike and have similar lifestyles are living together more in the same communities.

i wonder if you think that the congress is simply a reflection of that divided country that we have here? you have said it before, you sort of get the congress that you vote for. >> i think to a certain extent -- the pew research institute came out with a report a few weeks ago that, chuck, you probably reported on, that the american people are more polarized than they have been a longtime. i think that is because of something else that we talked about, which is that we tend to migrate to those media sources that we agree with, whether it is fox news or msnbc. we have more blogs today than ever before, and a stir things up -- they asked her things up in a way that we did not have before. the media has changed medically. they used to beat referees and now they are participants, and that is catalytic for polarization.

there is one other factor that i have to mention, and that is the money chase. a senator today in a competitive race has to raise about $15,000 every day that they are in office. they do not do that, they wait for the last two years and then they spend about two thirds of the time dialing a four dollars. this it in cubicles smaller than this stage doing nothing but dialing, dialing all day long for the money that they need. that is no way to run a country. [applause] that is no way to run a democratic republic. >> i want to go back to a point that senator lott made. you supported president obama early in his campaign. do you think he has been a good leader and exerted the kind of leadership that senator lott talked about? >> yes and no. i think every beater has failures and successes. i give him great credit for

passing something that i care about, health care. [applause] >> can i make a point on the? -- that? that was a partisan vote. >> i wish it could have been. i was in the room when he was encouraged to take what we commonly call a single-payer approach to health care. in medicare for all approach. he said -- and i remember him saying this -- i am going to take the heritage foundation model that was offered in 1993. as an alternative to the single-payer approach. he was then called, let's have a public option. i've single-payer for those who want to sign up for it. he said, no, we will never get republican support if we do that. i was there at the stages were

he made the decisions where he made the effort. at the bottom line is that we did not get bipartisan support, and i think it is undermined our beginning from the beginning to move the legislation forward. >> tom, i think, was shocked today because one of the bright students that we met with at south dakota state university, we met with nurses and pharmacists and others, and they asked us tough questions. they asked me, basically the question was, did i think we would have passed health care reform if we had been in charge? and i shocked tom, because i said yes, because i do think the health care reform was coming and there was a lot of need for it. accessibility, affordability. but it would have been different. we would've had more amendments. it would die by the bell that passed, it would've been more broadly supported. -- it would not have been developed past, it would've been

more broadly supported. as for the president, i was scrubbing for tom, and he could've asked me if i are we george w. bush, and the answer would have been no one that. -- no on that. [laughter] presents should meet with the congressman, talk with republicans, talk with democrats on immigration reform. there are republicans that want to get that done. you did that every week with president bush? >> yes, after 9/11. we had to wear our jackets. >> and i showed up half dressed. [laughter] i'm a night owl. bill clinton, he was on the phone, day and night. sometimes i did not want to talk

to them at 2:00 in the morning. [laughter] but he was always in touch, always pinging us to find out what we were up to. i do not think the president obama does that. i do not think that he enjoys that type of relationship. and i think it would help him if he would do that. and also with democrats. you have to work with the team that you have got, regardless of party, and try and find a way to get agreements. everyone in washington says that we need tax reform. the president says a, republicans senate, democrats say it. -- publicans say it, democrats say it. we need to cut the corporate tax rate. one thing to my senate colleagues this year, tell the people what you are for. we know you do not like obamacare. we know you're holding your breath and holding his unpopularity will elect you.

that is not good enough, what are you for? [laughter] [applause] i am trying to stay away from partisan remarks, but if they would do that, we would win the senate. if they try to hold their breath, i do not know if that will work. we do not even have a higher education act. and nobody is against it. and yet it languishes in committees. so there is a lot -- we will have to talk about foreign policy, defense again. these are not issues that would surprise anybody. but who was talking about the things that we need to do? in order to get things done, you have to talk about what you would do if he would get into office. -- you would get into office. that is a little away from the

question, but i think that is important. >> i'm glad you raised the point about student questions, because we are trying to get to those. i do want to ask one more question, and that is, if the republican does with the senate, it out of the leadership says that one of the first acts would be to try and repeal obamacare. what an that preclude the types of things that you are talking about on transportation and energy -- wouldn't that preclude the types of things you're talking about on transportation and energy? >> i am always looking for a way to get the result you want. i would say, ok, have one more vote on repealing it. get it through the house and senate and then obama would veto it, and then what would you do? what you should do a sit down with the president and say, there are some things in the bill that are not working the way that we thought they would or that you wanted them to. could we amend this?

so then, people should take some time with a few rifle shots, hopefully that would be bipartisan. if you want to repeal the medical device tax, which would undermine the bill in some ways, he would get 70 votes for it. but ping it where you see places where improvements can be made and then move on. do your show will end under your real votes. -- show vote and then do your real votes. [laughter] [applause] >> on health care, there are so many things that we could do together. tailored medicine, a great way to deliver. one small example, but there are many others. >> let's get to the student questions, because they are probably better than any that i

have asked. the first one is, i think, a tremendously -- i have tried to write about this. it is hard to get traction on this because the country does not vote on this issue, and that is student debt. it has transcended $1 trillion, as you know. we are the only country in the world that saddles our students with that kind of debt. what are your thoughts on this? how have we gotten to this point and how do we get out? >> that is an extraordinarily important issue. it is one of the largest sources of debt in the country. we have ignored it for too long. we have made it hard for students to repay the debt, oftentimes. we have not created the mechanisms that i think accommodate the extra ordinary in cost the students are facing. i think we have to deal with the cost of education, and how we deal with the from a national

perspective is one that is subject to thoughtful consideration. reducing the cost of money for student loans. all of those things have to be a part of it. >> i am the son of a schoolteacher. my mother was an english teacher. when i did my first new server column, when i got elected to the house, she clipped it out and marked the grammatical errors in red and mailed it to me. [laughter] i have been accused of being a little flaky on the issue of education. after i graduated in 1963, i worked for two years in the placement and financial aid office. i was a recruiter and over the summer i did be loans and grant programs, set up work-study programs for students. i felt like the federal programs and the work-study program, i could not have gone through law school without that, so i have

always been an advocate. in those days, it was not called the student loan, it was called ndea, national defense education act. part of that was that if you got the loan -- it was a lower rate than now -- and you went to teaching -- into teaching, a certain portion was forgiven for every year. i like the work-study program, where you can work for the university while you are going to school and get paid for it. i also think -- and this is where i reflect my background. i also think that you have an obligation to pay it. you need to look at higher education in america. our be adequately funding research, which is an important part -- are we adequately funding research, which is an

important part of our curriculum? what is the right rate? how can we make sure that students do pay it back? and that is where i get a little hard nosed, frankly, i think that if you borrow it, you pay it back. i am for the grant program, but i get nervous when it becomes, you get a loan and a grant and a supplemental grant, and next thing you know you make more money going to school then when you get out of school. so this is an important area. i think we need to take a look at it. they made a little progress this year -- and, by the way, they came to a bipartisan agreement. the chair of the education committee is a guy from minnesota, a thoughtful guy. it should be a priority issue next year. >> as you alluded to earlier, you belong to a bipartisan group.

one of the things that they came up with, that the group, through some of your work, is a year of national service between 18 and 28. which is controversial. could that be possibly twinned into the student that situation? -- debt situation? >> definitely. we had a wonderful day talking to students, and one of the messages that we took to the students is that everybody has a commitment to their country. a realization that we have to give back. there has to be some recognition of the responsibility of citizenship. of course, voting and political involvement at all levels. but i think it could also mean national service. it has been discussed on many levels, all kinds of different settings and locations.

i think there is a real value to students who are brought to an understanding of the importance of citizenship, the importance of responsibility, the importance of giving back to one's country. and in so doing, it addresses other challenges in education as well. >> we have talked a lot about the moments were you came together, but there also were moments where you were, for lack of a better term, at each other's throats in the senate. in both of your books, you wrote about those times. what was the most difficult situation you faced? >> i don't think whoever were at each other's throats. -- we ever were at each other's throats. there was the balanced budget amendment, and that led to a balanced budget. we got that done.

it was not an easy discussion for tom, because frankly there was a lot of back and forth between republicans and president, -- the president, and there were a lot of things that tom did not like. but we got it done with an overwhelming vote. a couple of times, i surprised tom, did something that i did not -- we had to agreements -- two agreements. number one, i would tell them what the schedule was and i would not surprise him. every once in a while, i would pull the trigger on him, and he would get mad and i would apologize. it went both ways, he would do to me when i did to him and we worked it out. did we ever get nasty with each other? >> i think what happened -- we each came out issues from different perspectives. we understood that if we were going to get through this particular legislative challenge, we would have to find

common ground. i think the greatest friction occurred on procedural issues that are kind of boring to the audience. there is a term that is -- commonly called a filling the tree. that is happening now. it happened over 70 times in the last six years. that is the frustration that sometimes you have. you want to legislate, if you think you're are being dealt with unfairly, whether procedurally or substantive, you will respond. we would have tiffs, but trent said something earlier that, i look back and think how pleased we are to do it. we decided to have a phone that directly connected with the two leaders. it was only for the leaders. the staff could not use it. i knew if the phone rang, it was

him. it was that line of communication that allowed us to get through difficult times. once, we would use a colleague. -- once in a wild, we would use a colleague. we would send messages to john from louisiana. at the end of the day, i do not think we went home at. >> on filling the tree, i did it to tom 11 times. [laughter] >> that is true. i did not like any of them [laughter] [laughter] . >> you only did that to me once or twice. i didn't at least two times trying to block john mccain from offering campaign-finance reform -- i did it at least two times trying to block john mccain from offering campaign-finance reform. i think that, while the intentions are good, it has contributed to the problems that we have now.

that bill weakened the ability of the parties to do what they have to do and led to super funds that are out there blasting people with tons of money, and usually negatively. and no transparency. one of the things i always said i campaign-finance reform, i do not like limits, but i think you should have to reveal instantly where you got it from and to give it to you. let the people decide then. there are probably some dairymen here, once i was running and i got a contribution from dairymen incorporated. i was proud of it. i got plastered by the media and my opponent that i was taking money from the dairy industry. i was proud of it, so i touted it. those things, we have had to put up with. >> is there such a thing as too

much bipartisanship? i asked it in this context. you both have raised objections or second thoughts about the patriot act. there are a number of democrats who regret their vote on the iraq war. was there too much by that pushed us to fast into iraq and security concerns that we are now seeing a play out? >> chuck, i do not think so. as i said, and they could've said more to the point, but i think you do the best you can given the circumstances you are dealt. and we did the best we could, given the circumstances that we had at the time. but i think that is true of almost anything the congress is faced in all of history. you make decisions, move on, come back. we'll get the number of times we have amended the social security act or medicare -- we look at the number of times we have amended the social security act

or medicare. this is an organic process and will evolve over time. i look back with pride and satisfaction, but obviously there are now things that we haven't better understanding of, that i would apply if we had that chance. >> i do not think there can be too much of a good thing you bipartisanship, which is what you have to have when you have two parties to get something done. but you do not have to give up your principles or your philosophy to get that done. i come from a school of thought, the way i was raised, i believe the best government is the least government, closest to the people. the people in this room, your mayors and councilmembers and commissioners, that is where the rubber meets the road. i still believe -- like a former governor in wisconsin once said, the federal government should defend the shores, deliver the mail, and steady hell out of my

life. -- stay the hell out of my life. i believe in individual responsibility and rights. i have a greater faith in people at the local level, and i am naturally suspicious of the federal government. but, having said that, i also think that there is a role for the federal government. and for the colleagues and my party who basically say, no, i do not want any federal government am a that will not work, either. government, -- government, that will not work, either. like tom mentioned, the tax bill that bush 43 wanted in 2002, i was for much an advocate of the full cut. -- very much an advocate of the full cut. but my friend of from the louisiana tipped across the aisle, probably with tom pushing them, and so olympia snowe from me -- stole olympia snowe from

me. we negotiated, we ended up cutting it by about 300 billion dollars -- $300 billion, but it was totally huge tax cut. where i come from, if you cannot get $1 trillion, but you can get a hundred billion dollars, that is a good deal -- $800 billion, that is a good deal. [laughter] i have been accused of being a deal maker and a compromiser. yeah, but i've also been accused of getting things done for my country, and that is the important thing. [applause] >> that is a good segue to our last six minutes. i will let you perform the senate exercise here. you can divide the time between yourselves. what i would like you to do any

final three minutes or so is addressed this question, and that is, short-term and long-term, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the country? and talk about why you think the way you think on that. senator lott. >> i would be glad to yield to my colleague. [laughter] short term, i am worried about where we are and what is happening. you alluded to this earlier, tom. what is happening in the party primaries now really upsets me. i had opponents, the first iran for congress, and the republican primary. i never had another republican primary opponent in my 35 years. but now, the primary is so vicious. my colleague from mississippi has been in congress 39 years. he is a vocal man, but he is 76.

he ran for reelection and we had an ugly primary mississippi. -- in mississippi. i do think that the elected officials are reflecting the people. i was shocked by what some of the people said and did in mississippi. we generally run gentlemanly campaigns, but this one was nasty. i get worried about the young people, with the social media and the twitter and the instagram and the facebook. then i go and see some military men and women, and i come to a university like today at south dakota state university, and it reinstates my faith. i am worried short-term, but long-term, you know, this is the greatest system the minds of men have ever conceived. this, too, shall pass. i do see hope over the horizon, the next generation of leaders

coming to congress. republican, democrat, house, and senate. they will be different than the current leaders, i am not damning the current leaders, but they are reflective of the times. but i look at the men and women, young, i think it will get better. and i do believe that the american people -- i hope it will not take another crisis or more disaster. but when we get together, we are a hell of a force, and it will happen again. [applause] >> i guess i share that point of view. in the short-term, i am concerned about the polarization, the confrontation, the dysfunction that we began talking about tonight. but it has been worse. times have been worse. the country has been in worse shape. i read a book about william jennings bryan and the great panic, we had double-digit unemployment and people were concerned whether the country

could survive. he gave a speech in denver, and he ended the speech by saying if i had any wish it would be to come back in a century to find out whether the great country has survived. that was in 1907. we survived not one but two world wars, a great depression, a number of scandals, the resignation of a president. and we look back on the century is one of the greatest american centuries in all of history. in fact, the american century. i think we succeeded, in part because of our resiliency, in part because of our innovation, in part because we find ways to collaborate and be engaged, but in large part because, when we needed it the most, our leaders rose to the occasion and provided the kind of leadership that made a difference. and that is what we need so

badly now, to rise to the occasion. to show that leadership. the company grips with the challenges we are facing. .-- two, to grips with the conversation -- to come to grips with the challenges we are facing. the chairman of the rules committee had two pictures on the wall, one was a picture of an old biplane with two men standing in front of it. one of the bottom, is it to my dear friend claude pepper, orval and wilbur wright. wright it was a picture of the moonscape, and it was -- addressed to claude pepper by neil armstrong. i asked him, i got elected by 14 votes, i do not know how long i will be here. what advice do you have for a very junior and fragile congressman? he said, one thing. you're a democrat and i am a democrat, but it is far more

important, not if you're an r or a d, if you are a c or a d, constructive or destructive in the legislative process. we've got a capital c and i am grateful to him for coming and joining us. of thank you all very much. [applause] >> in a moment we will show yesterday's debate between republican governor candidates. snyder was elected in 2010 with over 58% of the vote or it the to cover transportation, pensions, same-sex marriage did the political report lists this as a

tossup. debate, wehow that will show you some candidate ads that are running. thing's first. when you elected me governor, spending was out of control. we've reversed all that. we have for balanced budgets in a row. we are rebuilding michigan. education, health care, jobs. this recovery will last for generations. >> i am running for governor because rick snyder's economy might work for the wealthy, but is not working for the rest of michigan. with thousands of jobs on the line, i fought to rescue the auto industry. i will cut middle-class taxes.

i will reverse the education cuts and get rid of tax breaks for companies that send jobs overseas. our economy should work for everyone. signed one of the largest history.ases in the deciding that for her services tax was mark shower. she called him a rock star. lost, michiganbs was drowning in debt. >> rick snyder cut a billion dollars from education. a billion dollars. now he claims he increased school funding. class.in my

my classroom got more crowded. >> good teachers were laid off. >> rick snyder did cut a billion dollars from education. >> we know because we see it every day. my vote, the town hall. it is sponsored by wayne state university. the william h smith family leadership circle. make your voice heard on election day. >> we are on the campus of wayne state university with governor rick snyder and mark schauer. the audience will ask questions of the candidates.

stephen henderson of the detroit free press. governor rick snyder and mark schauer [applause] >> gentlemen, welcome. as kristy noted, there are a few rules in this format. no buzzers, but we do us that you keep your answers concise. you have foregone opening statements. we can get right to questions. the coin toss behind the stage puts the first question to mark

schauer. you said your opponent has cut one billion dollars from education spending. where do you come up with that number? >> it is great to be at wayne state university. my dad was a teacher and my mom was a nurse. i saw the difference being made. they taught me that the key to a good job is a good education. now, it is true that governor rick snyder got $1 billion from public schools. he gave 80% and 90% pay raises to his top executives treat i think that is wrong. the key to a good job is a good education. it is my number one priority. there are some verifiable services that source and you can look to. his first budget cut $930 million from public schools. he even told the kalamazoo

gazette that those costs would be difficult. he is right. is cut's to the classroom -- he cut $300 per pupil. that puts our kids and more cabinet -- cluttered classrooms. basic programs have been eliminated. today, it is a fact that schools still have less per pupil when he started four years ago. i will close with this, don't take my word for it. talk to any teacher. talk to school board members. parents. school districts around the state. i even met with a group of parents. they are going door-to-door, raising money on social media, and even holding bake sales to raise money for music, arts, special education, foreign languages.

that is wrong. that hurts our kids. that hurts our economy. >> did you cut $1 billion out of education? >> no. lets make this simple. you hear a lot of different things. let me make this as simple as possible. the year before i became governor, the state budget for k-12 was $10.6 billion. that is a number that does not change. the budget i just signed into law was $11.7 billion. the budget i just signed is $1 billion higher than the year i took office. if you take those three years in between and look at those budgets, it is $1.1 billion more than if you would have taken that $10.6 billion each year. that is not an argument i can dispute. i would look to the free press. the free press actually covered

it to say i have been true full. our broken political system has people making up lies. that is not good for any of us. it is important to invest in education because the kids are our future. i believe in it. not only is k-12 important, but we have made the largest investment in the united states for preschool of any state in the nation. why would we make that investment if we are cutting education? it is to reinforcement. we are doing better in michigan. we are at 70%. we need to get that number high. that is what i want to work on in a second term. >> we have some other education issues to get to. i don't think you will ever agree on that billion dollar cut. charter schools have been

another area of contention of the last several months. you feel charter schools need more regulation? >> the first thing i would do as governor is put the money back. it is irrefutable. you can check the sources. there are less dollars in the classroom. there are less dollars to educate our kids than before he became governor. another problem hurting our schools, school district over the state, 48 school districts that are in deficit. there will be more. they went broke. charter schools were allowed to expand with no oversight. that was a big mistake by this governor. it is hurting our kids. the free press did in a day series on what has happened to our public schools. 80% of the charter schools are run by for-profit companies.

let me be clear, public education should not be a profit-making venture. dollars should get to the classroom and our kids. these schools have sweetheart real estate deals, lack of accountability -- it is hurting our kids. yes, i would not expect my opponent with his record to sign into law oversight of charter schools. i will do it when i am governor. >> governor, are charter schools hurting education? >> they are giving parents choice. we have had a lot of failing schools in our state. point behind charter schools is to get -- give parents the opportunity to have their kids get an education. that is important. they are not unregulated. there are alterations behind them and the department of education provides oversight did one thing i can to you is that we need higher standards for all schools, charters and traditional public schools. we need to raise that bar.

we need to raise those standards. when you talk about school, i am a strong believer in public schools. when you talk about that funding number, i did it in a fashion that gave an extra slice to traditional public schools more than charter schools. the other part i did it for was to make sure those hard-working teachers actually have a well funded retirement system. that has been one of the huge problems and issues, but that was not properly funded. when you see teachers complaining, hopefully they can also recognize that we have done more to ensure they have a well-funded retirement plan, not just them, but all employees, then they would otherwise have. i believe in that. that is important. >> we have an audience question. >> tell us your name in question. >> what are your plans to support higher education and job training so that we make sure that michigan workers are ready

for good jobs? >> thank you. you go to school here? >> yes. >> great. i just met a student who was to become a teacher. educators of the most important profession in our society. she will be graduating with $32,000 in student loan debt. she also told me about her boyfriend. they are going to get made. it sounds like to me -- he is a law student. he will be graduating with $100,000 in student loan debt. it is a fact that with rick as governor, to wish and has increased every year for college students. you are wracked with student loan debt. i would do three things. first, we will keep our commitment as a state to our state universities to increase funding. we will cut 15% -- wayne state was cut $42 million.

second, i will provide more need-based financial aid so everyone who was to pursue higher to patient can do that. third, we will put together a student loan fund to help students. we will help you refinance that student loan debt. they can spend more of their income in our it economy. we have to build our economy from the bottom up. >> good luck in your career. that is fabulous. a couple of key things i will tell you. it is too expensive. first of all, we need to be more innovative and what we do, what we work on. when i was in battle creek, they have 1200 students in -- enrollment.

think about that. we will increased financial base resources. lets be innovative. think about this. you can drop the cost of a bachelors degree by 25% and an associates degree by 50%. the other thing that is important is career tech education. that is important for me, creating those middle-class job opportunities through training, reestablishing career tech education. we can do much better. one example is math squared. it is a michigan advanced technician training program. how does it work? >> you start working for the company, you're already going to

school. the company pays your tuition cost why you go to school. at the end of three years, you come out with an associates degree, certificate, a guaranteed job, and a were committed for two years. talk about a great career opportunity. >> your tax reforms resulted in about 1.7 alien dollars less in revenue. there is also $1.6 billion more coming in from middle and low income earners. is this good policy? why is that fair? >> we had a billion and a half dollar deficit when i took office. we have seen a big recovery. what was the point of the business changes? to make it fair. it is about fundamental fairness. do you remember all those coveted closing up?

part of it was they had a big tax burden. when you have to pay your taxes, you know how tight it was. we were paying and it should tax on our businesses. not only do they individual income tax, where going to stick you with a second tax. if you went to indiana, why were all business is going to indiana? they were marketing their great economic relevant tool. it was killing jobs. why did we do? we got rid of that unfair tax. we replaced it with a simple fair 6% tax. the big companies are still paying the same. i got rid of those tax credits. for the small and medium-size businesses -- do we have any small and medium-size business people here tonight? we have a few. you know what it was like to think about this. we built a taxes done that said the people who create jobs should pay more than we pay on our salary and wages. that is not her you create jobs.

what we made was a fair system to increase job creation. the congressman voted for the attacks. -- for that tax. >> congressman, you said you want to repeal the pension tax. how would you make up the revenue? is that fair to be taxing 401(k)s? >> thank you. i would urge you to read what i wrote about this issue. there are 95,000 businesses in michigan that page zero and taxes. he talked about balancing a budget. he dug the hole $1.8 billion deeper and then turn around and cut a billion dollars from our schools. he raised taxes on working families, low wage earners, and pensioners by $1.4 billion.

yes, i will repeal the pension tax. it is wrong. it is bad tax policy. it is breaking a promise. it is causing seniors to leave our state. it prevents others from coming to our state. retired couple, born 1952 are after, are paying $3100 more a year in tax because of his policies. he think that is fair. it will be the easy thing i do as governor. there are a number of republican legislators that want to repeal it. what we are going to do is provide tax fairness in our state. to pay for it, we start by cutting all the wasteful programs and sweetheart contracts that this governor has created, starting with the $41 million furniture contracts. stop giving tax breaks to companies that send jobs overseas. that is just for starters.

>> is that true? >> lets talk about the pension tax. that is a mischaracterization of what we did. we created a fair system and what do i mean by that? we build a system that actually had wonderful benefits. if you happen to have a pension, you did not pay any michigan income tax regardless of your age. if you happen to have a defined in a fit plan through a private employer, you did not get the same deal. you were excluded up to certain limits. if you work at a place or you had a 401(k), and you started taking distributions that you left work, part of it was taxable, part of it wasn't. the people who did not have a retirement plan, they were paying michigan income tax. i don't think that's fair. is that make any sense?

what did we do? one, we realized we had a big benefit for a group of people. we grandfathered in the seniors. we put a special provision for anyone 60 and you're older. it excluded up to $40,000 for married couples. what else did we do? we put in a new senior exclusion. we actually help those people who were still having to work not to pay tax. we created an exclusion that they don't have to pay. we help seniors. >> ferry quickly. our governor is missing some columns on his spreadsheet. jeanette is retired. her husband is retired. they counted on that pension. iran into a general and who voted for you last time and was sorry. his general motors pension is

being taxed $133 more a year in tax. he said that is a utility payment. i can afford it. it is wrong. it is bad policy. if you think that is fair, no wonder our economy is not working. >> people that did not happen to have a certain retirement account, they need help. that is what we provided them. he has brought up a couple of other things that had nothing to do with the question. he brought up my cozen and a furniture contract rate i would like to straighten that out. lets get the back straight on that one. that contract, my cozen is a distributor. i think it is discussing that he is in pinching on a good person's name. -- in pinching on a good person's name. it has been with him for 20 plus years. the last time it was renewed, it went through the process of being reevaluated, that was before i was governor.

it had nothing to do with me becoming governor. this is a professional politician making up stuff. the other one he mentioned was the investment officer. i went to be fair about this. he said i gave huge raises to my officials. they are civil-service employees. that was approved by the bipartisan civil service commission. they are managing $60 billion -- let me get one more line on this. this is important. these people are making $70 billion -- do we have any uaw members. >> we are moving on with this issue. we could fight all night. we are not done. we will talk about transportation. congressman, michigan has some of the worst roads in the nation. how do we fix them?

who pays? how? >> that is an incredible question. every one of our 83 counties -- school cut, pension tax, and our roads. we are 50 out of 50 in per capita spending on a roads. it shows. $2.5 billion a year correctivly in repairs on our cars because of the roads. in the legislative process, when democrats and republicans were trying to put a solution together, i will not be in manhattan. we understand why he is spending $2 million on his campaign. my first term in the legislature, we solve this problem. that is the last time it was done. he was not awol.

we had bipartisan legislature. we did this together can let me to you what i would do. we will get our fair share from washington. when i was there, i brought back $850 million to help fix our roads. we have much more to do. we have some people here that will help us do that. >> we have to hear from your opponent. governor, how would you fix the roads? >> we will get a solution done. it should be a top priority greed i have been calling for this years. how many people have that bad tire in the last year? the challenge was the legislature was having a hard time addressing this issue. potholes brought it home. we got farther than had been done in a lot of years. it was an election year. you found many legislature saying they were not going to vote for a revenue increase going into an election season.

lets get it done. it is for everyone's benefit. better roads lead to better jobs. it makes as much better off. that is what i have been calling for. if the congressman and people back in 1997 -- we would most likely not have been having this discussion today. >> thank you. you have an audience question? >> what is your stance on implementing mass transit? >> thank you. that is a great question. i run a nonprofit community development organization to provide transit services for the elderly and handicap. it is critical to help detroit comeback. we need transit. one of the reasons we need to

fix our roads -- it is a question of leadership -- and i will lead in a bipartisan way to get this done. my time in the legislature will help me do that. there is funding in the transportation package for transit. >> i am happy with what we are doing. we got through bipartisan legislation to do a regional transit authority. it was one of the great missing needs for detroit. we got it done. we will move forward with that. i want rail. we are helping transportation all over. i am proud of the track record i have. it is a great opportunity for the future. it is one of those things that attracts and people to michigan. >> detroit has an emergency manager and is trying to get through a compensated bankruptcy. is this the right policy and approach? is there more the state needs to

do? what do they need to do to help them out? >> that was a big question. >> let me start the other way. what we are doing now is working on early warning systems to help communities. it is not a subjective process. it is an objective process. i don't something decide that. certain conditions have to exist first. with respect to detroit, i want to see that in of a systematic way. we will work together. we get a consent agreement. those things were not done. they came to an emergency manager. then it came to the question of actually putting detroit into bankruptcy. that is one of the toughest decisions to be made in the united states. it was the right decision to make.

look at where we are today. we are within one month or two months of coming out of bankruptcy. we would have shed $9 billion in liabilities. if we had not done that, the operating budget for the city of destroyed, more than 60% would go to paying past debt. there would be no money for services. streetlights have been going up. trash is being picked up. public safety is improving. violent crime is down and double digit percentages and detroit played all these things are going on. now we transitioned back to upgrade my goal is to have the emergency manager come in, do the job, and get out. stop and think. did you ever think you would see detroit posed for such a bright future as you see today? >> congressman, you have opposed the emergency manager legislation. how would you handle this differently? >> i believe in democracy. the people voted in 2012 to overturn the law.

as governor, i would have abided by the role of the voters. i would have personally led. i will be in to try. -- i will be in detroit and be a full partner. the mayor is supporting me. he knows i will be a strong and active partner. we need good jobs in our communities. i will do is put together a financial transition team where we can be proactive. what our current governor has done is fight fires, address crises. the second thing, i would never have cut retiree pensions. our constitution is clear. pensions are guaranteed.

it is wrong. it is hurting people. that is no way to build a strong economy. >> you have a chance to respond about democracy. you are suspending local democracy. people in the state voted not to have emergency managers. i do you address that? > we have had emergency what we did was enhance the skill set so we could come, do our job, get out. there was a ballot proposal that said there were certain aspects -- that people people didn't like. in detroit, other than the bankruptcy, the city is now

running the city of detroit. we have an emergency manager that we have lost in pontiac, e-course.bor, it is helping people. we know how it works. i would ask the congressmen, if you are not going to do things like looking at bankruptcy as a very last resort -- and again, it is constitutional. a federal judge said that. what are you going to do to pay those liabilities? how do you have a government where 60 percent is going to liability costs. >> had i been emergency manager, that would not have changed the books for the city of detroit. i'm not questioning whether the city of detroit needed to go bankrupt, but i would have personally led rather than having an unaccountable person do it. i would never have thrown city police officers and firefighters under the bus.

that hurts them. >> we didn't throw them under the bus. we worked with the foundation community. retirees took paycuts, but we minimized them. they ended up sue poshting the agreement, and i respect them for that. >> give us your name and your question from the audience, please. >> i'm don graham. i believe our cities are struggling for public service. how can police be helped in adding fire and rescue service? >> that is a great question. revenue sharing has been cut significantly by this governor, and the impact is fewer police officers and firefighters on the job. that is critical to strong healthy communities. what we need to do is have a strategy to support our cities. they are the hubs, innovation, and entrepreneurship and having

basic services like roads and infrastructure. they are critical to tracking people and tracking investment. what i will do, seeing that this current system that we have is broken, we need to put together a strategy for municipal finance in michigan, similar to funding our schools. roposals are 20 years old. we need to pull together our best ideas involving local communities to design a partnership between the state and our local communities. the fact is, our cities and illages and counties are operations of the state. we are in this together. i'll close with this. what i've seen from this governor is a reverse trickle down. while state has cut funding for local communities, what i see in community after community is their raising taxes on voters

to fix e and fire and our roads. >> we have to move onto the next subject. >> no, my fault. >> i appreciate it. >> we had a billion dollar budget, and we had to make some tough choices, which i did. since then we have been critically focused on public safety. that is really important. 14 cities we focused on, in particular, detroit, pontiac, becausegnaw -- saginaw, they are some of the most dangerous cities in the united states. that was really important. do public safety people endorse the work i'm doing? i am proud to say i have been endorsed by the fraternal order

of police officers and the firefighters association. they endorse me. >> let's take the next question for you, since you are up there. why hasn't job growth been more robust in the state? what will you do to get people working again? >> job growth has been robust in michigan. i am proud of that. when you talk about how we lag, why would we lag? well, we were at the bottom. we were last in employment for 30 years, and we have improved dramatically. how many people realize that the jobs we lost in that last decade went south. literally went south to southern states. how many people from detroit went to atlanta because there wasn't opportunity. idea how much we

have improved, we have been number five in employment. in terms of rate of increase, we're number 13. that's well beyond being at the bottom. that's coming back fast. in the states where the jobs went, we match tennessee. we actually match california. to give you an idea, alabama has a higher unemployment rate than michigan. georgia has a much higher unemployment rate than michigan. so we have come back hard. those jobs that moved to the south, because of tax reform and regulatory reform, we have shown we can bring those jobs back to michigan, and we're keeping them in michigan. >> how would you keep this economy growing at greater speed. >> we would first put the money that was cut to our schools back. we reverse some of the

regulations and provide tax cuts for middle class families. governor's t -- calculateor is broken. he even says it in his own commercial when he says if you don't feel it yet, you will. the last national jobs report shows michigan losing the most jobs of any state in the country. we are one of the few states in the country that hasn't recovered all of the jobs lost in the great recession. according to his own michigan development corporation, the leading job growth in michigan are fast neighborhood jobs. we need to rebuild, and we start by making public education our number one priority. we reverse the snyder job

-killing pension tax. and finally, i will cut taxes to small businesses. i will create tax incentives for jobs that are here in michigan, and if they send their jobs overseas, we'll make them repay every sidgel penny to the taxpayer. >> thank you. governor, you talked about the skill gaps coming into michigan, and what will you do to make sure the skills of michigan workers match the jobs. >> it is really about creating middle class jobs, and we're doing that in michigan. the congressman didn't have his facts straight. he voted for the job-killing michigan tax. you look at it in terms of job creation, the top priority is private trades. job everything from

creation to agricultural. there are many ways to create a jobs path, and we're doing it in our state. one thing i want to ramp up is helping people become career connected. we are helping the structurally unemployed with real ventures. we are taking people that never had an opportunity and giving them an opportunity. we are putting them to work. we are finding nearly a 70% retention rate after a year. now we are putting programs on top to give them upward mobility. to give them skill trade. with the bridge coming, with m-1, with all the entertainment district, there are a lot of jobs. that's my number one priority in my next term is to bring back skill trade, tech and engineering. >> one of the places that most

needs skilled, trained workers is the auto industry. i was there in congress when it counted. we rescued the awed owe industry and saved tens of thousands of dollars for the auto industry. rick said that was overblown. i believe he was wrong. we need to create a high-growth economy. that is my goal as governor. after i left congress, i worked for businesses in michigan and skilled, trained workers during the union construction trades. they are building our new energy economy. i've seen it firsthand. these are exactly the kinds of partnerships i will support as governor. bottom line, a skilled work force is the key that will drive us forward. community colleges play a critical role in this as well. that's why public schools, cuts to schools that will eliminate basic vocational schools are hurting our economy and our work

force. >> thank you. christy, you have a question from the audience? >> my name is heather pike. do you believe raising the minimum wage would be good for the economy in michigan? >> yeah, we do. it was a good bipartisan effort, and it was a good thing to do. we did that in a bipartisan fashion in terms of increasing the minimum wage in our state. both parties came together, both chambers came together, we had a good discussion, and we did something that helped the people of michigan. >> i'm very pleased that the minimum wage was raised. i began my campaign early november last year. i stood here propedsing an increase in the minimum wage. i think it is wrong, and i think we are better here in michigan to see parents raising their children on minimum wage jobs in poverty. i compliment all the citizens in

michigan that collected ignatures on minimum wage. candidly, i think my opponent was worried about that being on the ballot. it is so important we support good wages for workers. most minimum wage earners are women, and women are driving michigan's economy. the minimum wage is the right thing to do. as small business owners, we know that businesses can hire more employees, and people have money in their pockets that they examine spend for gasoline and groceries and diapers. i am pleased the minimum wage was raised. i championed it. it was the right thing to do. >> governor, if you are elected, you could face the possibility where both houses are controlled by the opposite party. how will you get anything done? >> well, the i -- i think the premise of that is based on this

election and who votes. i think the democrats are in a good position to win the statehouse, but we'll set that aside and make incredible gains in the state senate. i served 12 years in the legislature, 10 of those years in the minority. i know what it is like to work ogether. jobs in ped create homer over mexico, it wasn't because i got my name on the bill, it's because i worked with people on the other side of the aisle to get it done. i think we've seen the experiment of a c.e.o. governor who doesn't really understand how to work with legislatures -- legislators. i would value the legislative body. i would spend time with them, with my sleeves rolled up, whether it is fixing our roads, whether it is helping to invest

in our schools. but we will need bipartisan solutions. i believe our best solutions are bipartisan ones. we need a governor who understands how the legislature works, respects how the legislature works, is willing to roll up his sleeves to find bipartisan solutions. i'm going to say one more thing. having come in before term limits hit the legislature, it was a time before democrats and republicans were genetically predisposed to dislike each other. i think we need to change the political culture in lansing. >> to you, governor, a slightly different question. your critics might say you have been pushed into issues you may not have agreed with by a legislature that's more conservative than you are. how would you answer that with issues like right to work? >> it has been about leadership.

just toll respond to my opponent, he was here when we shut down government two times. do we want that to happen in washington today? . am proud of what we have done helping michigan bring income to hard-working people. i can give you a long list of bills. .ne that touches my heart we worked together to stop bullying in our state. one thing, if you do the research, of the bills i've signed into law, over 75% of them have been bipartisan. ng bills some polarizi also. i have a great working relationship with legislators. we do some great teamwork. we go behind closed doors and

have some really heated arguments. but we try to bring up a higher civility ivil vilt -- and respect that you don't always find in washington. >> every time the legislator engaged in lobbying, he lost votes. leadership counts. these are difficult challenges. our economy deserves the leadership, the seniors deserve the leadership, our children deserve the leadership. i will work each and every day to build an economy that works the eryone, not just wealthy.

>> i have been in a working office in the capitol. my days are over 170. they often make fun of me sometimes, because i will wear a tie on tuesdays, because that's capitol day. [laughter] >> governor, if the sixth court appeals upholds the gay marriage ban, will you ask the attorney general to pursue the matter further, or will you let the matter rest. >> again, i'm going to wait for he opinion to come down.

>> where do you stand? >> i'm waiting for the decision from the courts. people nor, i think the deserve to know where you stand on the issues. you may not agree with me on ending discrimination against people from being with people they love. his statement makes you believe he has no opinion. many this gorvings through his own legislature banned domestic partner benefit. his tough choices are tough on all the wrong people. i support marriage equality. lisa brown, my runningmate, led fter judge friedmen's decision opened her eyes.

finally, it is not only the right thing to do. it is an economic issue here in our state. to discriminate against people, talented people we need to help rebuild the city of detroit and our communities is wrong. i have talk today parptse who have adult children that live in other states and won't come here because we have backward policies. you have chinninged, you have appealed judge friedman's ecision, so you are a party to not being inclusive, and i think that's wrong. >> governor, how do you -- how do you reduce prison costs without compromising safety. >> the first thing i would do is

terminate the contract well those people responsible for smuggling couldn't band. his own chief of staff addressing the corrections director to back off. here's what we need to do. education is the best remedy to preventing people from entering the criminal justice system. there is a front door strategy. we have to educate people. i have helped in addition -- and i was responsible for headstart for 450 children. in addition, i started two drug treatment course yefments these are ways that give judges tools to provide treatments, whether it is mental health, substance abuse, or even for veterans that may have traumatic brain injury. so i think on the front end, in terms of reducing the prison population, i think we have to look at our sentencing

guidelines. as one corrections employee told me , we have to figure out who we are mad at versus who we are afraid of. there are elderly, sick folks in our system that may not pose any danger. we need to review our sentencing guidelines. finally, we need to fully support the michigan prisoner re-entry initiative. 0% to 90% of prisoners come back home, and it is in our best interest to not have them eoffend. >> governor, i would like you to talk about reform. >> i think you are right every year saying we spend more on corrections than higher ed. that's the challenge. what i can tell you is we cut the corrections budget by well over $100 million since i've been in office. if you look at the actual

number, it has not come down, because now we are properly funding retirement and other things that was not being done for the employees. those hard working employees again. we need to reduce costs, but public safety needs to come first, so we need to do it in a smart way. there are four states that are 10 years plus doing food service at a lower cost. they have another state they have been in for some time. if you have a problem with someone on a contract, the congressman would just throw them out. i don't know about you, but i would try to work with someone first before i throw them out. i did fine them $200,000. they were paying for an expert, a person running corrections in two states, a former corrections officer, to come get to the bottom of it, come get the solution to work, or we will take action. when it comes to corrections in general, i think the congressman has been reading my white papers again. we are getting sentencing reform

underway. in terms of courts, we are doing drug courts, speciality courts. in terms of the united states, are leading the effort in with a health commission. too often we are locking people up when they have a mental health issue, and we're getting on top of that. we're not talking about it, we're doing it. prisoner re-entry. we did pretty well in michigan. it is out-dated, we can do much better. >> give us your name and question, please. >> i have a question about the environment. i would like to ask each andidate what is your position on fracking, and what plan would you put in action in the event of contaminated water. >> let me be clear, part of my jobs plan, which you can read on

my web page, talks about the environment. i will never sacrifice the environment for jobs. it is either both or neither. as the great state, our environment, next to our people, is our most precious asset. we must protect our resources. i also want to stop spending $24 million a year on resources. that's why i've been a leader in growing renewable energy here. let me point out, the proposed rules from the department of environmental quality would scak sacrifice the environment. >> we do want energy independence in this country, nd it does need to be done right i am proud to say i'm co-chair of the great lakes panel to take care of the great

lakes. i will tell you a stat here that many people will not know. in michigan we have cracked over 120 of the wells in our state and never had a problem. we do fracking right. we do work for more energy independence. the rest of the country is looking at michigan as a role model. >> first to you, governor. are michigan residents better off than they were four years ago? how will they be better off in the next four years if you are still governor? >> sure. it was actually richard zuba -- there was a poll taken through the paper where more than half the people of michigan were now feeling better about the future of michigan. you know the last time that happened? it was 9/11. not last year, but well over a decade ago. people are seeing the bright future in michigan again. we need to keep that up. in the second term, my focus is

better jobs with a key focus on the trades and creating middle class opportunities for people. they are there. we can do it. p-20. being more effective. starting with preschool. starting with that process of getting the most effective teachers in the classroom. career tech education again. finally, good government. we run our government right now. we are financially responsible. we are paying our long-term debt. i can tell you, if you want a cool job in michigan, run for governor in 2038. that's one we need to -- that's when we need to make sure we are not dropping problems on our kids like we had. we have to ensure a bright future for us and our kids' kids for generations to come. that's important. let's not go back to the last decade. let's not let people mess up michigan again. it is time to work together. look at what we're doing with

detroit and so many other things. the progress is happening. keep going. thank you. >> ok. congressman. >> i spent my entire life fighting for an economy that works for regular people. in the last legislature i fought back and helped rescue the auto industry and made sure we created good middle class jobs and strengthened by american standards. now, i'm running for governor because i believe that we together can build an economy that works for everyone, not just the wealthy. rick snyder's economy may work for you, if you are one of his employees that got an 80% pay raise. if you are a student, teacher, or parent, it is not working for you, and those policies won't work for you either. i have outlined a detailed jobs plan. first three things, one, restore cuts to our schools. i will make public education any

number one priority. second, cut taxes for the middle class, and i will end the snyder job-killing pension tax. third, i will help small businesses and entrepreneurs re and provide tools and tax incentives for companies to create good jobs in michigan. and when they -- and if they send them overseas, i will make sure they repay every penny. as governor i would wake up each and every morning fighting for an economy that works for everyone, not just the wealthy. thank you very much. >> well, gentlemen, that was a lot of fun, but -- >> let's do it again next week. >> thank you to the governor, the congressman, and to our audience and you at home for watching.

i'm christie mcdonald. have a great night. [applause] >> now where candidates stand on licies that are important to michiganders. go to aarp.org/yourvote. >> this program was produced in partnership with the droilt news, detroit free press, and detroit public television. >> coming up in a few moments, an ebola response update from the centers for disease control in atlanta. frwill hear from dr. tom ieden. in the meantime, the hill is running this article this

morning. the national nursing union is accusing officials of trying to escapegoat the nurse in dallas instead of acknowledging that hospitals nationwide are largely unprepared for the disease. u.s. health officials are investigating what they call a breach in protocol that led to the country's second ebola diagnosis. they warned sunday the larblinger -- larger problem is a lack of training in thousands of hospitals across the country. "you don't escapegoat and blame when you have a disease castillo said.ie the nurse who has not been identified tested positive for the disease. that's from the hill today. while we wait for the c.d.c. briefing to begin, here's a segment from today's "washington journal" on ebola. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- [captions performed by national pt