morning. the national nursing union is accusing officials of trying to escapegoat the nurse in dallas instead of acknowledging that hospitals nationwide are largely unprepared for the disease. u.s. health officials are investigating what they call a breach in protocol that led to the country's second ebola diagnosis. they warned sunday the larblinger -- larger problem is a lack of training in thousands of hospitals across the country. "you don't escapegoat and blame when you have a disease castillo said.ie the nurse who has not been identified tested positive for the disease. that's from the hill today. while we wait for the c.d.c. briefing to begin, here's a segment from today's "washington journal" on ebola. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- [captions performed by national captioning institute] we will 's

response to ebola third we have had this nurse in dallas test positive for ebola. what was the reaction from washington yesterday? >> alarm, frankly. this was not expected by public health officials. they felt the controller -- the -- this nurse had not been on the highest list of context -- of contacts with thomas eric duncan, who died. the white house is trying to light a fire under the cdc, doing more to help train hospitals and nurses in particular on the front lines of fighting this and that continue to be if we see cases arising in the united states. friedman ism talking about the next steps they are taking because of this nurse testing positive. they will hold a conference call for health officials to do some

sort of teleconference training over the phone tomorrow. what are they talking about at the cdc? what does the administration want them to do? guest: the cdc is interested in training health care professionals about taking on and off that protective gear they are using when they train ebola patients. -- when they treat ebola patients. guidance has circulated around to american hospitals to ensure people are up to date on the best practices. in other parts of the u.s. health care system, really doctors and nurses are so busy, hospitals are so busy, it is rare they take the time to do the special trainings that they might need to do to be prepared for something like an ebola case. the cdc is issuing new recommendations, but so far they to not serving personnel monitor a hospital's response to an ebola patient, which is what some critics are calling for. saying thathers are

the cdc might decide that any patient who walks into a possible might have ebola, that that person would get transported to one of these four facilities in the united states have proven they can handle and ebola case. guest: that is definitely on the table from what i hear, but there are only four hospitals in the united states that are specially equipped. montana,in nebraska, atlanta -- that is emory university, where a patient was treated. at the same time, we know that kind of travel for a patient in critical condition can make them worse, so that is one reason they might be holding back. host: let's talk about money. we read earlier from "the hill," that senator vitter is holding up $1 million the administration wants to use to combat ebola. what is his argument? guest: that the administration

is not providing enough detail about how service members will for fighting evil in west africa. if they are exposed, they want to understand exactly how they will be treated -- fighting ebola in west africa. if they are exposed, they want to understand exactly how they will be treated. republicans hearing that this mission could take more than one year are very concerned, so they are holding up the money. top: is the $1 billion the price so far, the top figure that washington has spent his planning to spend on fighting ebola? guest: so far there is a lot less than that that they we have spent so far. we see the response of the u.s. government go fairly slowly up to this point. we saw president obama plus speech several weeks ago saying that we are going to ramp up with speed and scale, but it is taking quite a bit of time to move u.s. troops to the african

continent. november the end of is when all of this will be finished. that is really several more weeks, and we know that patients are dying on the ground and it is a desperate situation. ast: homeland security had earring in texas on friday per what did we learn from that hearing? supporthere is a lot of among republicans and democrats for the idea of a travel ban from countries that have the epidemic. the u.s. public supports this idea as well. they want to see flights banned from those countries as a way to protect americans. but the administration has pushed very hard back on this idea, saying it would not work and it would further isolate the countries and make the epidemic worse there. this week in washington we will see those calls ramp up even more, and the administration may

possibly have to do something else under pressure. another hearing happening in washington, the house oversight and investigations subcommittee of energy and commerce will be holding a hearing as well. who will be testifying? what are they likely to be ?ebating you go guest guest: tim murphy has taken an interest in doing oversight about exactly what are the ,edical protocols at work here whether they are working at the hospital level. tim murphy himself was a psychologist. he is very interested in the medical community and how they are feeling about this. it is a pretty hefty debate in washington. host: go to c-span.org for coverage of that. many lawmakers not in washington, back home in their districts and in their states campaigning for the november elections, but

>> we go live to the centers of disease control in atlanta for an update. >> we'll go to questions. for those of you in the room asking questions, would you please give your name and affiliation. our first speaker today is c.d.c. director, dr. tom frieden. >> good afternoon, everyone. thank you very much for joining us. stopping ebola is hard. we're working together to make it safer and easier. yesterday we confirmed the first case of ebola contracted in the united states in a health care worker who cared for what we refer to -- who we refer to as the index patient in dallas, texas. our thoughts are with this health care worker. she is now being cared for, and we understand that she is

clinically stable. please refer any questions on her care to the hospital where she is being cared for so that only information that she and her family want released is eleased. the existence of the first case of ebola spread within the u.s. changes some things and doesn't change other things. it doesn't change the fact that we know how ebola spreads. it doesn't change the fact that it is possible to take care of ebola safely. it does change substantially how we approach it. we have to rethink the way we address ebola infection control, because even a single infection is unacceptable. while getting to some details of what we are thinking about with

regard to how to take care even safer in a minute, but i want to step back first andout line what we are doing and what the current status is. first, before the index patient in dallas was hospitalized and isolated, there were 48 potential contacts. 10 known to have contact with him, 38 who may have had contact with him. all of those 48 contacts have been monitored daily. none of them have developed fever or other symptoms as of now. this is consistent with what we know about ebola. that people aren't sick when they don't have symptoms, and the sicker they get, the more infectious they may become because the amount of virus in heir body increases. second, for the health care worker who was diagnosed yesterday, we have been

discussing with her, our team lead in texas has spoken to her on multiple occasions. she has been extremely helpful. we have identified one, and only one, person who had contact with her during a period when she was potentially, although likely not infectious, because it was at the onset of her symptoms. that person is being monitored, and as of now, that person has no symptoms of ebola and no fever. third is to identify the health care workers who also cared for the index patient and ensure that they are actively monitored for development of symptoms or fever. if they develop either symptoms or fever, they are immediately isolated, assessed, and tested. that process is still underway. the teamworked hard through the day yesterday, into the night

yesterday, and are still actively working today to interview each one of the large number of health care workers who might potentially have had contact with the index patient when he was hospitalized. the thinking here is straight forward. if this one individual was affected, and we don't know how, within the isolation unit, it is possible that other individuals could have been infected as well. so we consider them to potentially be at risk. we are doing an in-depth review and investigation. so these are the three categories of contacts. contact with the index patient before he was hospitalized. contact with the health care worker who was diagnosed yesterday, and contacts who may have also had contact with the index patient after he was hospitalized. all of them will be actively monitored. that's how we break the train of transmission.

we prevent another generation of spread of ebola. in addition, as i kitted -- indicated yesterday, we are doing a detailed investigation to better understand what might have happened with the infection of the health care worker. we look at what happens before people go into isolation, what happens in isolation scomprks what happens when we come out of isolation. we are particularly concerned ith that third process, taking off the isolation personal protective equipment. if it is contaminated, there is a possibility that the worker will contaminate themselves and become infected in that process. from day one we have had a team in dallas working closely with the hospital, the state, and other workers. when the initial patient was diagnosed we doubled down and sent an additional team in place. that team has been at the hospital just about continuously since. they have been working through

the night. we are not just doing an investigation, we are immediately addressing anything that could potentially make it safer and easier to care for people who have or may have ebola. we are not going to wait for the final results of that investigation. i can go into some detail later with what we are doing in the short run. each time we identify a process for training or equipment or protocol that can be improved there, we are improving it right there on the site. i want to clarify something i said yesterday. i spoke about a breach in protocol. that's what we speak about in public health when we are talking about what needs to happen, and our focus is to say, would this protocol have prevented the infection? and we believe it would have. some interpreted that with

finding fault with the health care worker or employee. i'm sorry if that was the impression given. that was certainly not my intention. people on the frontlines are really protecting all of us. people on the frontlines are fighting ebola. the enemy here is a virus, ebola. it is not a person, it is not a country, it is not a place, it is not a hospital. it is a virus. it is a virus that's tough to fight. but together, i'm confident that we will stop it. what we need to do is all take responsibility for improving the safety of those on the frontlines. i feel awful that a health care worker became infected in the care of an ebola patient. she was there trying to help the first patient survive, and now she has become infected. all of us have to work together to do whatever is possible to reduce the risk that any other health care worker becomes nfected.

when we think about hospitals where ebola care can be given, really, there are two different steps. the first is diagnosis. every hospital in this country needs to think about the possibility of ebola in anyone with a fever or other symptoms that might be consistent with ebola that has traveled to any of the three countries -- or new sierra leonne, guinea -- with whatever we do. we have to make sure patient rs rapidly diagnosed if patients become ill in this country. secondly is the care of ebola once the diagnosis has been made. i think we recognize that that care is complex. we are now working very closely

with the hospitals to make that care simpler and easier with hands on training, hands on oversight and monitoring, and that's something we will do any time there is a case of ebola. now, i want to just end before i turn it over to commissioner lakey, with thinking a bit about what comes next. what's going to be happening in the coming days and weeks. first is the safe and effective care of the health care worker in dallas. we will do everything to smake make sure that those who are taking care of -- we will do everything to make sure that those who are taking care of the individual and that that individual get the best possible care. secondly, we need to consider the possibility that there could be additional cases, particularly among the health care workers who cared for the index patient when he was so

ill. that's when this health care worker became infected, and we're concerned, and we are -- and we, unfortunately, would not be surprised if we saw additional cases in health care workers who provided care to the index patient. third, we will continue to track all contacts. all of the 48 from the initial patient's expose shures before exposures before he was hospitalized. we will also track the health care workers who may have been exposed during the initial care of the index patient. fourth we will work with hospitals throughout the country to think ebola in someone with a fever or other symptoms that has had travel to any of the affected countries within the previous 21 days.

fifth, we will double down on training, outreach, education, and assistance throughout the health care system through professional association, through hospitals, through group organizations and individuals reaching out to the health department at the state, city, and other levels so we can increase the awareness of ebola and increase the ability to respond rapidly. we wish the situation in dallas were different than it is today. we wish this individual had not been infected, and we're concerned that there could be other infections in the coming days. but what we are doing now is implementing an immediate set of steps that will ensure that the care of that individual is safe and effective while we look longer term at what this implies for what we should be doing to care for ebola as safely and as effectively as possible wherever

it may arise. with that, i will turn it over to dr. david lakey who is commissioner of the department of texas health services. >> thank you. obviously it has been a tough several days in dallas, and very tough days for the hospital staff. we knew it was a possibility that one of the health care workers would become infected, but it is still very disappointed. i know the family is possibly listening, and i want us to know that our thoughts and prayers are with them and with the health care worker and with the staff that is working hard on her care right now. there were many components to our response here in dallas. doctor frieden talked about many of those components. the first is this hard work. we have pulled in additional staff from throughout the state complementing the work

of the c.d.c. and we are bringing in the resources to do the contact investigation from many different levels of government to identify those individuals and contact them as queckly as -- as quickly as possible. . frieden talked about outbreak control and making sure the practices are even more stringent than what they are now. we are making sure we have the c.d.c.'s best of the best working with us to make sure we are as stringent as possible with infection control. the health care worker's apartment initial cleaning has been done. additional evaluation and cleaning will be accomplished today. we are doing this with local leaders, but also with other state agencies to make sure that we do that in accordance with the best guidance that's out

there. one issue related to the final cleaning is the health care worker has a dog. we want to make sure we respond appropriately. we are finding a location to care for the dog and a location where we can have the proper monitoring of the dog. we know the possibilities that can occur, and we want to be prepared. a lot of work is taking place with a variety of the health care providers, emergency weagers, e.m.s. to make sure are ready that whatever needs to take place, takes place, and at the same time following the folks that we know have been contacted. the 48 individuals that we have been monitoring so far and the additional individuals that dr. frieden has discussed today, making sure all of them know what needs to happen if any of them start having symptoms.

again, a lot of work is taking place here in dallas, and we continue to be grateful for the support of the c.d.c. and our many other partners in this response. with that, dr. frieden, i hand the line back over to you. thanks. >> thank you very much, dr. lakey and thank you for the work the team is doing there in texas. we value their work greatly. i will add the situation is fluid, and we will continue to contact you as we get more updated. in the room. >> doctor, you talk about the possibility that more health care workers could have been affected. is that because you see a breach in protocol? >> if we knew there was a specific incident such as a needing stick, that would indicate that we could narrow it down to health care workers at

risk to those who had that specific exposure. since we don't know what the exposure was, then we have to cast the net more widely and see in terms of monitoring, monitor a larger portion of the health care workers, and see if in terms of protocol is improved and improve every aspect of those procedures every time we see something that could be improved. for example, our staff there now are watching as patients put on and take off all of their protective garb. they are retraining staff on how to do that safely. they are looking at the types of personal protective equipment that are used to see if there are some types that may be easier to put on or take off and thereby reduce the risk that someone would unintentionally contaminate themselves. we are looking at what we do if someone comes out of the

isolation unit and possibly spraying them down with a product that would kill the virus if there is contamination. that was already in our guidelines for gloves, but we are looking at that more broadly. we are looking at things that can be done within the isolation facility to reduce the risk that an individual's personal protective equipment could become contaminated with the ebola virus. there are a series of things that were already implemented within the past 24 hours, and we will continue to look at that in terms of how can we make care asier and safer. >> hi, i am from cnn. you have been telling us for a long time about the risks and all the things that can be done. you just said you are working at making care simpler and you are providing hands-on training. it seems like there is a gap

between what you may have thought was happening at the nation's hospitals and what actually is happening. have you thought about bringing in someone like doctors without borders which have been successfully treating patients in africa for years to learn how they do it? the second question i have is the question regarding the travel. you have said multiple times that a travel ban is not helpful for many reasons, but many people still think why not keep those people who may be sick from coming into this country. can you better explain why you do not think a travel ban is a good idea? >> i'm sorry, your first question again. >> the training. >> we worked very closely with doctors without borders, in fact we have replicated their training course. we have dozens and hundreds of u.s. doctors and health care workers who are going to africa who are -- to fight the outbreak

at its source, and they are replicating the training that m.f.s. has done. the same committee completing that training course is training doctors in the u.s. we are going through the next few days to see how we can improve training most urgently for the health care workers caring for the patient in dallas, but also more generally throughout our health care system. it is worth highlighting that the single most important thing for every other hospital in the country to know is the importance of taking a history of travel. if someone has fever or other symptoms that could be ebola, ask where they have been in the previous 21 days. if it is to liberia, sierra lee n -- leone, or new guinea, immediately notify us at the state department, and the

c.d.c., and we'll go from there. that's what the health care workers in general need to focus on. in terms of travel, we are looking at multiple levels of detection. the first is screening people on departure from these three countries. all are screened with a question air. ll have their temperatures taken. 70 people were not allowed to board airplanes in the last two months because they had fever. none of them had ebola. many of them had malaria. in addition, starting yesterday at j.f.k. international airport we began screening people who came from these three countries also with a detailed questionnaire and temperature check. since that was implemented 91 such individuals who why identified -- were identified, none of them had fever. five of them were sent for additional evaluation by c.d.c.

none were determined to have ebola. this was at j.f.k. thursday we plan on having this in place at four additional airports in the united states. also making sure that doctors throughout the health care system diagnosis ebola promptly. that is very important. on the issue of banning travel, i understand there are calls to do this. i really try to focus on the bottom line here. the bottom line here is reducing risk to americans. the way we are going to reduce risk to americans is do the steps of protection i just went through and stop it at the . urce in africa today c.d.c. has 150 top detectives within the free countries helping to turn the outbreak around, working along with the department of defense, with usaid, with the world health organization, and with

many other governments which are surging in to help stop it at the source. if we do things that unintentionally make it harder to get that response in, to get supplies in, that make it harder for those governments to manage to get everything from economic activity to travel going, it is going to become much harder to stop the outbreak at the source. if that were to happen, it would spread for more months and potentially to other countries, and that would increase rather than decrease the risk to americans. above all, do no harm. that's why we want to focus on stopping the outbreak at the source, and protecting americans where ever ebola may arise, even though we know that can be challenging. >> texas presbyterian is a

relatively large hospital and still had a breach like this. do you still feel smaller hospitals can handle an ebola outbreak? >> we are going to look again at the way to better care for people with ebola, but i would reiterate that whatever we do on that issue, it is important that every hospital be prepared to diagnosis someone with ebola. remember, mr. could be americans who have been deployed or traveled to the area and have come back. whatever we do, we are not going to eliminate travel from these countries. >> thank you, dr. frieden. you mentioned doing everything possible to protect health care workers. i was wondering if you feel that you can be certain that in the presence of a patient with project i'll vomiting and coughing that there could not be

inhalation and whether you are changing the c.d.c. regulations to include respitory protection. i understand that is what doctors without borders use. >> actually, the doctors treating patients in this country have all used a form of respiratory protection. that is clearly not how the individual in texas became infected. i don't think we have concerns about the potential route of transmission. our guidelines already say if there is any concern for aerosol generating procedures, such as intubation of a treatment a, then absolutely we suggest espiratory intubation. >> can you clarify about the breach in prote coal. are you deducing that a breach

in protocol must have happened because of the result or have you identified any breach in protocol? second of all, the c.d.c. held a meeting in august preparing for ebola, and your folks were pressed again and again by clinicians about negative air pressure rooms and about what kind of garb to use. they seemed to think that should there be some kind of indication for leg protection. again and again the c.d.c. folks came back that hospital policy, head coverings we do not call this out. do you still stand by this guidance. >> and your first question? >> the first question was about the breach in protocol. >> we have not identified a specific problem that led to this infection. we have identified a series of things where queck we can make the care safer and easier for

the health care workers who are providing it. one of the things that's very important is that we have practical solutions that are workable. when you are taking care of a patient with ebola, you need to go in and come out multiple times. doing that in a way that works for you is very important. we are looking at what are the ways to do this most safely and most easily. one of the things we've found is that sometimes health care workers may think more is better. so they may put on additional sets of gloves or additional coverings. that may actually end up paradoxically making things less safe than more safe because removing all those clothes may increase risk. we don't know that happened here, but that's one of the things we have been addressing. even before the individual's infection, we had improved some

of the infection control practices at the hospital. over the past 24 hours, we have undertaken a series of improvements, and we will continue to investigate every possible way to increase safety for health care hospital workers. >> my question is regarding the screenings that will start thursday at hartsfield-jackson. did that work? someone is non-symptom atic , as index mmatic aren't we and relying on people being honest? -- f there is contact, tesh

if there is contact, then we cannot completely reduce risk. the most important thing is to get the spread in africa to zero. we need to stop the spread in the u.s., and that's what we are doing. >> if you would like to ask a question on the phone, please one. star our first question comes from evan brown in texas. good afternoon. your line is open. >> is there any type of federal standard or state standard for hospital employees, workers, doctors, respiratory technicians , lab technicians, to work in an isolation unit? we do have folks that get certified for things like c.p.r., and they do that through

special training and they have to take exams and they have to renew them. do they do this for isolation ward care? would that be one of the things going forward that might be helpful? >> i'll begin and then turn it over to dr. lakey for further comment. there are a series of specialties in infectious disease protection, critical care nursing. there are many specialties in which infection control is an integral part, but as far as specific sert -- certifications for isolation and treatment, no there is not. what we will be doing in the coming weeks is doubling down on the amount of information and training we give to not just this hospital but other hospital settings about the protection of safely treating ebola and caring

for it. dr. lakey? >> thanks, dr. frieden. i don't have much to add. as far as the hospitals, they have looked at the rooms, the negative pressure rooms to make sure they are up to standard. there is general education that takes place with infection control practitioners, and a lot of education that takes place in the hospital itself. we do not have a specific regulatory certification for individuals that work in these types of environments. a lot of that education takes place at the hospital, and did those hospitals -- and those hospitals have licensure that they can perform to state guidelines. >> go ahead. your line is open. >> i have a question for either dr. lakey or dr. frieden or both

of you. late last night the louisiana attorney general said he would seek a temporary restraining order so that the incinerated waste from the apartment where mr. duncan stayed at could be disposed of in a louisiana landfill. i wonder if there is a scientific basis, and how you think, dr. frieden, that might impact the care of other patients with ebola around the country. >> we know how to inactivate and destroy the ebola virus. it is readily destroyed by incineration and environmental means. t is not a particularly hearty virus environmental-wise. dr. lakey? >> i don't have much more to comment. we feel with the procedure, with incineration, with total inactivation of any virus and

believe that the ash would pose bsolutely no risk. that's where we are right now. >> in the room? >> you mentioned there were several other staff members that you guys were interviewing that had contact with the index patient. do you have a number of those people? and exactly what are you talking to them about? >> the teams on the ground are going into great detail about what type of contact people had and which kind of care they gave on different days so we can have a map of what kind of potential expose shures there were. we do not have a number of potentially exposed health care workers. it is a relatively large number, we think. in the end, what proportion of them have actually had contact, we don't know. we cast a wide net and narrow that down. we hope that by tomorrow we are able to provide that number to

you. in the room? >> miriam falco, cnn. you talked about how more training needs to be happening. there are a lot of hospitals in this country. we thought -- at least the hospital thought in dallas that they had prepared well. they had a training session the week before mr. duncan was admitted. is there a way to choose certain hospitals as ebola-designated hospitals so you know that hospital has improved or up to par training until all hospitals have that possibility? >> we are certainly looking at all the possibilities. we want to make sure that when patients are cared for, they are cared for safely. i think the event in dallas this week shows how hard it is to do that. care for a patient with ebola requires meticulous attention to

detail, and we are looking at how to make that safer and easier. one more question in the room, and then we will be done. >> my next question comes from the associated press. good afternoon. your line is open. >> could you please tell the steps that the health care workers in texas were taking to decontaminate? how did it work? you mentioned something about starting a buddy system. if you could mention what's been done up to this point. >> what we're doing is looking at every aspect of prevention of infection in the dallas hospital. that includes what is done when people put on their personal protective equipment. that may mean looking at the different equipment that's used and seeing if there is equipment that's easier to put on or more protective. what they do when they are in the isolation facility, what they do to reduce the risk so that virus wouldn't get on their

protective equipment, and what would they do when they come out on the equipment. that's where we are most concerned. because that's when you may have virus on your equipment. you need to make sure there is a buddy watching how you do it, that there is a monitor providing oversight, looking for ways to decontaminate any potential contamination. it is an ongoing process. we work through the night with the staffer there. we are implementing new procedures to make it safer and easier, and we will make it easier to do that in the coming days. thank you. >> you mentioned you are going to rethink patient care possibly. could one way to do that be the end of life care such as intubation or other things that are sort of more invasive for health care workers? >> we will look at all aspects. we want to make sure patients

that have ebola are cared for both safely and effectively. it is important for them, and it is important for all of us. when ebola patients are cared for safely, it is more likely people will come in for care. it is more likely health care workers will have the confidence that in the -- what we hope will be the extremely unlikely event they are infected, they will get the best possible care. that's where our focus is. dr. lakey, is there anything you would like to say in concluding? >> thank you, dr. frieden. we appreciate the support from the c.d.c. and our many other partners as we do everything we can to stop the spread of ebola here in dallas. i feel confident we are going to do that. we are bringing in the staff we need to do, to do the contact tracing. we are working with, as you noted many times, to make sure that the infection control is as -- stringent as

possible and making sure we have a coordinated response. so again, we appreciate the work of the c.d.c. and our many other partners as we do this. and again, we are right now concentrating on the care of this individual and making sure no other texans are exposed. >> thank you very much, dr. lakey. the bottom line here is that the care of ebola is hard. we are working to make it safer and easier. the control of ebola is something we know how to do. already we have seen that the contact of the index patient so far have not had illness. we have had one case, and we hope we have no additional cases among health care workers who cared for him. but that one case does tell us that there were risks to that individual and potentially to others, so we are intensively monitoring that so we can break the chain of transmission there.

and we are assessing what more we can do, what more we all can do, to improve the care of people with ebola so that we cannot only stop it at the source but also risk the -- reduce the risk to any health care workers going forward. thank you very much. [inaudible question] >> let's go back. he question is, should the country be confident with stopping this. we are working to break the chain. we are making sure people with symptoms are rapidly isolated and cared for. we want to point out -- we want to ensure the care of patients is safe and effective. right now we have to make sure that care is done safely and effectively everywhere, particularly in dallas where there is a patient today. we have already cared for other patients with ebola in this

country without infections. doctors without borders and others, including ourselves, have cared for patients for decades without infections. so we know how to stop ebola. for the general public the key message here is, if you are a health care worker, see what you can do to help stop it by detecting it sooner or helping out, if you volunteer to do so. for the individuals who are potentially exposed to either of the two patients in dallas, you need to monitor intensively for that 21-day period. for everyone else, there is no risk of exposure to ebola unless you go to west africa. that's why we are going to west africa, to stop that risk there. we need to do everything we can, and we are doing everything we can to both protect americans, and protect americans effectyly by stopping it at the source, as well as stopping it here. thank you.

>> coming up live, an arkansas enate debate between senator ryor, representative colton, independent lfrance, and independent swaney. here are some of the ads running in that election. voted to man colton protect women and children from domestic violence. there is a big difference between mark cotton and mark pryor. one wants to protect women, and the other doesn't. >> the more i read, the more i'm

concerned about mark cotton. do you know he voted for equal pay for women and he argued women sth be charged more for health care than men. e voted against the bill for women. it makes you wonder, what does mark cotton have against women? i 'm mark pryor, and approved this message. >> this was supposed to make health care a lot more affordable. it has done everything but make health care affordable. next year, we might not be able to afford coverage at all. our hands are tied. it is frustrating to realize that your own senator cast the deciding vote on obama care. we told him personally how this

i ld affect our business and wish senator pryor had listened to us when we told him how obama care would have affected our business, and i wish he would have voted against it, but he didn't. >> also live tonight at 8:00 eastern, senate minority leader tch mcconnell and democrat lison grimes will debate politics. an average poll shows senator mcconnell with a narrow lead. are some - here campaign ads. >> mitch has voted himself six pay raise yerks enjoyed over $200,000 in special interest perqs and travel, and raised himself over $70 million. here at home, incomes are down

90%, kentucky has lost over 43,000 manufacturing jobs. it sure seems mitch has washington working for him and not us. i'm mitch mcconnell and i i approve this message. is noton grimes said she about support for barack obama. but -- >> make no mistakes, these policies are on the balance yofment every single one of them. >> obama needs grimes, and kentucky needs mitch mcconnell. lundgren-grimes, and i approve this message. >> mitch mcconnell didn't show

up to vote for troop funding two different times. where was he? he was on tv. at the rest of the time, he created gridlock. 30 years is long enough. >> the media call her ads false and misleading. now on attendance. grimes must not understand as a senate leader, mitch doesn't just serve on committees, he can appoint people to committees. it is a power grimes won't have. alison grimes, no experience, alse and misleading attacks. >> i'm mitch mcconnell, and i approved this add ad. >> joining us on the phone, is joe gerth. thank you for being with us.

give us a sense of where this race is at. >> we have released polling that grimes may have grabbed a two-point lead. all of these polls are within a margin of error, and on election day it wouldn't be a shock if either one of them comes out a couple percentage points ahead. >> alison grimes was asked whether she voted for barack obama in 2008 and 20126789 first of all, why that question and what kind of news did they make? >> the question was asked because mcconnell spent the past year trying to tie her to barack obama and barack obama's olicies.

his favor ability -- favorability in kentucky is around 29%. he is very much disliked. people don't like him, they don't like his policies. he is trying to convince voters that if grimes is elected, she will simply go with barack obama's policies, which senator mcconnell arlings are bad for kentucky. grimes made news because this is about the third time she has been asked this question. she was asked the question whether or not she would vote for mcconnell -- i'm sorry, whether she would vote for obama, and she would not answer the question. she said i was a hillary clinton delegate in 2008. she said i believe in the sanctity of the ballot box. she was asked four times whether

she voted for barack obama, and she wouldn't say. gosh, she's been getting hammered ever since then from the right, the left, the middle. "the daily cause" has hammered her and said her response was pathetic, was the term they used. >> hillary clinton will be in kentucky later in the month, bill clinton has been there advocating for grimes. >> president clinton was the last democrat to carry kentucky in a state-wide election. he carried them -- in a state-wide federal election. he carried kentucky in 1992 and in 1996. when hillary clinton ran for the presidential nomination in 2008, she utterly destroyed barack obama in kentucky. so the clinton name is a strong name in kentucky.

we did recent polling on president clinton's favorability, and it was about as high as any politician we have seen here in the state. it was well above 50%. >> mitch mcconnell first elected in 1984. he has always faced tough re-election battles. why? >> kentucky has -- although it performs as a republican state, 's got a strong democratic voter registration. about 60% of the voters in kentucky are democrats. he also, being in the position that he's in, he's a guy that's said "no" in washington, and the democrats have been able to effectively use that to hurt his reputation. he doesn't come across as likeable. especially when he's the guy up there that's blocked every piece of legislation that they try to

push through in washington. i think that has over the years worked on his reputation and harmed him. >> senator mcconnell and alison grimes have been together on a number of occasions, including fancy farm, which we covered here on c-span. but the kentucky debate is the only time the two will be in the same studio debating the issues. what are you looking for? >> you know, it is going to be interesting, especially after this episode with grimes this week before the couriers i don't remember editorial board just to see how she handles this and how she hand lings questions. same for senator mcconnell. senator mcconnell heard on the radio, recently on a sports radio talk show and also before the cincinnati enchoirer. on both cases he was asked about

global warming and whether or not he believed it existed and whether man was the cause of it. his answer both times was "i'm not a scientist. i don't know." it will be interesting to see if he sticks to that line and if grimes attempts to hold his feet to the fire on that. from the louisville courier-journal reporter. thank you for being with us. >> i'm happy to be here, steer. >> follow us on twitter. video clips of key moments. c-span is bringing you over 100 senate, house, and governor debates. you can instantly share your reaction to what the candidates are saying. the battle for control of congress. stay in touch and engaged by following us on twitter, at c-span a, and liking us on facebook at facebook.com/c-span.

>> now a debate between the candidates in the kansas u.s. senate rate. congressman pat roberts is running against greg orman, independent. this race has become more competitive with the departure taylor.rat chad the policy council hosted the kmbc tv.urtesy of

>> we are not used to sharing the playoffs -- sharing the stage with the playoffs this time of year. the first candidate i'm going to introduce is greg orman who earned a degree in economics at princeton university and shortly after founded a lagging systems. he remains involved until business, including a firm he began in 2008. he also has helped with the boys first campaign. senator robertson has served eight terms in the u.s. house of representatives. he served as the chairman of the senate arms committee during a pivotal time in american history. he currently serves on house, education, labor committee. welcome to both of our candidates today. maws applause -- [applause]

>> i want to remind you to silence your cell phones. we don't mind tweeting, real time, but keep your phones quiet. also your cel. ls. -- also your cells. we know you will be well behaved during today's event. of is thi. three minutes for each candidate. by virtue of a car -- a coin flip, greg orman will lead us off. >> good afternoon. i appreciate the opportunity to be here today. i want to thank all of you for taking time out of your busy schedules to be here as well. i spent my summers as a teenager watching my father run his own business just 10 miles from here in what was once stanley kansas. while i enjoyed spending time with my dad, the experience was really so much more than that. i learned the value of a dollar. i learned the value of hard work

and treating your families well. more importantly, it stired in me a desire to run my own business one day. my father aonce said to me, one concrete action is better than a thousand good ideas. when i graduated from college i started the first good business idea i had. with the benefit of great partners, hard work, a little luck, i was fortunate to be able to grow that business to the point where kansas city parmelite acquired it and asked me to run one of its businesses. i am proud of my track record in creating jobs and opportunities for employees. i'm the only candidate on the stage who has created a private sector job, who has had to deal with increasing government regulations, who knows what the burdenens of run-away health care costs are doing to small businesses, and who understands the problems -- the business of solving problems day in and day

out. i think it uniquely qualifies me to serve in the united states senate. a body we all know is broken. we are sending the worst of both sides to washington. partisan interests. they draw lines in the sand and refuse to cooperate. and we have serious problems to solve. from health care and higher education affordability to stagnant wages, living within our means as a country. if we don't address these issues, our standard of living, our status in the world, and the very existence of the middle class in america is at risk. i've tried both parties, and like a lot of kansasians, i've been disappointed. he will tell you president obama and harry reid are the problem. and he's half right. the other half is mitch mcconnell and -- both parties are failing kansas. that's why i'm running for senate as an independent. i'm a fiscally responsible businessman who believes we need to face our problems head on. i will focus on solutions, not party politics. i will stand up to the best of them because i am more

interested in solving problems than scoring political points. >> mr. roberts. >> thank you, john. thank you to the cory johnson public policy for sponsoring this event. i appreciate the opportunity to be with you today. america is at a crossroads. now it is up to kansas. experience, integrity, someone

who will be honest with you and tell you the good and the bad. someone guided by conservative principles. someone you know, who has worked and fought with you, who has won key battles. someone who has been and will continue to be your champion. or someone who tells you only what he thinks you want to hear. someone who won't tell you where he stands, who doesn't have a foundation or a compass. folks, my opponents will do nothing to roll back obama care. he will do nothing to stop barack obama or harry reid, the very people he has contributed to and voted for. in fact, a vote for greg orman is a vote to hand over the fight of the country to harry reid and barack obama. i have fought reid and obama and won. we have stopped their massive aviation fees, i fought the e.p.a. bureaucrats trying to strangle our agricultural industries. and my record of creating real

kansas jobs was recognized this week as i earned the endorsement of the united chamber of cons commerce and the national federation of business. does anyone believe my opponent would stand up to president obama? he helped elect him. i tell you this, my first vote would be for a republican majority. we will end the gridlock in the united states senate. that is a vote for kansas. my opponent cannot and will not make that same promise. kansasans believe in shooting straight. he has arun out the clock. he can't answer the tough questions. if he can't answer them here, how can he answer them in washington. my friends, who can you trust to represent the best interest of your family, state, and country? i am the only candidate that has the experience, convictions, the ability to break harry reid's stranglehold on the u.s. senate and the courage to stop the obama agenda. i have been your champion. ladies and gentlemen, our

republic, our way of life, our future is at a tipping point. just days ago president obama said this election is a referendum on his policies. he's right. a great for -- a vote for greg orman is a vote for president obama. a vote for roberts is a vote for america. >> there will be no specific rebuttal or response. the candidates have not seen the questions. they were prepared in advance by the council, focusing on business related issues. our question first, we'll begin with senator pat roberts. both personal and business related, regulatory uncertainty have shaken americans' confidence in the economy and their own financial futures. what do you believe is the best way to restore their faith in the country's ability to work its way out of this crisis? two minutes, mr. roberts.

>> you hit the nail on the head. going corner to corner and border to border in kansas, and that's the number one issue. you can talk about obama care, but the main issue is that people have ploft faith in their government. we will restore faith in government when we restore the leadership of the united states snats. it was just -- i have a record of creating real jobs and a pro-growth economy. when the chamber looked at my record, they said, we're going to endorse you. then they went a little farther and said my opponent is a liberal democratic. that's what they said. not me. that's what they said after looking at our records. i have a record of creating real kansas jobs.

i'm endorsed by the u.s. chamber of commerce, along with the farm groups, kansas right to life, n.r.a., about 70% of the kansas legislature on both sides and i am proud of those endorsements. i will be the pro-job, pro-growth candidate. >> i think we can all agree that government is broken. i've traveled throughout the state, and what i've heard in places like harvey county is that we need certainty around things like transportation funding. until we get certainty around transportation funding, they feel

like they are at a standstill in terms of what they can do in those parts of the state. i've talked to folks in western kansas who say "until we get clarity around immigration policy, we're putting on hold plans to build our facilities because we don't want to find ourselves in an environment where an overallly burdensome immigration policy ends up decimating our industries." i hear senator roberts talk about the farm community, and yet a number of his programs would decimate farming in the state of kansas. i do think we need to get things working again in washington.

i think we need to get to the point where businesses have confidence to take their dollars and reinvest them in the united states. one thing i promoted is what we refer to as a -- as our small business plan. we talked about a number of things we need to do to make it easier for small business. first of all, we need to relax the dotd -- dodd-frank regulations. these weren't the banks responsible for bringing our country to the brink of collapse, yet owes regulations are stopping them. there are real policies that will help get our economy back on track. >> let's talk transportation. federal fund transportation

projects could be delayed and leaving completion in doubt. what solutions would you impose to ensure so that federal funds are available to meet transportation needs, including revenue strategies you might have. mr. orman? >> that's a great question. in fact, it is consistent with what i've heard as i've traveled the state. many places say they are at a stopping point because they don't have certainty there is a long-term funding source. as all you people in the awed yention who run businesses know, if you are going to invest in a long life asset over time, you need certainty in the funding source, otherwise you shouldn't start the project in the first place if you don't know you can

finish it. i think there are lots of places in our budget that we can find dollars. i think it is harder for the average american to get ahead, and yet paradoxically, easier to do nothing with your life. i think we need to look at promoting pathways to work and look at things like transportation in this country. >> senator roberts. >> one thing is for sure, i don't think we need to raise taxes on the gas tax. i think that would be a very bad thing to do with regard to the economy, and a bad thing to do for people who earn their living and have to travel great distances, more especially in

our rural small town areas. and a bad idea for low income folks. there is a move by the party that he would choose with regard to his contribution to those of you who voted for him, that would increase the gas tax. i think at the present time we have to take it out of general revenues. it's been extended six months. we need certainty so we can do this. we have done it before. there are four major transportation projects, just talking to mike over there, that we have done this as a cooperative effort in this area. we need to continue that because this means jobs. that's why we worked so terribly hard this is why i'm for the pipeline. he is not for the pipeline. the pipeline would be 60,000 jobs in terms of infrastructure. the basic problem, yes, is we have to replenish the highway trust fund. right now it is general funding.

i don't know if you can just put other programs together and say we're going to give it to the highway trust fund. i think we need dedicated funds over the long hall that we can rely on. >> what are your views on our national tax policy and what would you do to improve the current system? senator roberts, we'll start with you. >> one thing is for sure, you won't have tax reform by harry reid leading the senate. that hasn't happened despite numerous hearings within the finance committee. so you have to change leadership right off the bat. the tax code has to be lower, flatter, fairer. that is why, again, when they took a look at tax reform and my activity with regard to tax reform, number one, i saved the aviation industry from user fees and taxes that were ill

advised. 25,000 jobs in wichita, $3.5 billion to the economy. you can do that. there are ways you don't want to pick and choose with regard to the obama ad manage mrgs on who you are going to tax. that is why i gotten endorsed by the u.s. chamber of commerce and the national federation of independent business. as they go down your record and say "what would you do for tax reform to make taxes lower, fairer, simpler, and flatter?" they endorse me. they did not endorse my opponent. i think he has to come clean with kansas voters. first and second amendment, keystone pipeline, amnesty, obama care. it proves beyond any reasonable

measure that he is a liberal democratic by word and by deed. that's not going to help tax reform. >> mr. orman. >> i've often said we don't live in the information anymore as much as we live in the misinformation age. i think what you just heard from mr. roberts is a lot of misinformation he would like you to believe when you make your decision. the fact is senator roberts and i actually had the same position on things like gun control and how to handle the administration. he just changed that record now because he thinks it's a better way to get elected. as for the tax code, i believe

the corporate tax code needs to be significantly streamlined. we need to reduce overall rates and we need to move to a territory torle -- territorial tax code. it is the tax code the majority of our competitors have. they have modified their tax code for a world that includes global zation and the internet, we have not, and as a result, it hampers our business and competitiveness. on a personal note, i have often said we need to do the same thing. we should not use the tax code to pick winners and losers. we should streamline the tax code, lower overall rates, and ultimately, if someone has a project that they want to spend money on, they should have to argue for that project in the light of the budgeting process and not the darkness of the tax code.

that's what we do today. we spend considerably more money in the tax code that really needs to have transparancy brought to it. >> concern about domestic terrorism has aplaced a spotlight on the visa program. in kansas hundreds of h-1 visas have been issued to fill high-tech jobs for which there are not enough american workers. a lot of states are considering their own laws which would almost certainly leave you with a patchwork of policies which are inconsistent. what is your opinion on the need to fulfill these job shortages including changes you would impose in u.s. law and policies toward immigration. mr. orman, you will lead us off with this one.

>> first, i would like to make sure everyone is clear on what my immigration policy is. i have said from the beginning that i am not a supporter of amnesty. i don't believe people who are here i will lilly should have a -- here illegally should have a way to -- what we have here today is that washington doesn't work. both sides have had significant periods of time when they controlled all houses of congress and the presidency and neither party has done anything about it. what do i think needs to be done?

i think our policy needs to be tough, practical, and fair. by tough, i think we need to secure the borders. if we double the number of border security agents that we have there in the last ta 10 years? i think we need to keep that commitment. i think we need to keep some of the technology plans. i think as technology advances, there is more of a likelihood it will be more successful, but it also has to be practical. we are not going to find and send home 11.5 million people. nor would it be advisible. senator, the part of the state that you profess to care about would be decimated by that. the meat industry, the service industry in the state would go

away. i think if you are here on an undocumented agency you should have to register with i.c.e., you should have to pay a small fine, as anot acknowledgement that you have broken a law, you should have to hold down a job, pay taxes, obey our laws, and then i think you should be able to stay here and work. >> mr. roberts? >> my opponent says he's not for amnesty. at the last debate, he said he was for amnesty. now that's not shooting straight. here's the problem with immigration. the house has sent over to the senate a simple bill. it says we should treat every country like we treat mexico and canada. if there is an illegal immigrant, sorry. it is illegal.

go back. the problem was when the president said a couple years ago, if you are 16 and younger, you can stay. central american countries sent a flood of refugees. a humanitarian disaster. the first thing we need to do is secure the border. that has a border secure park that is effective, and it has a change for that law. the senate is where good bills go to die. harry reid will not allow a vote. he is using the immigration issue as a political tool. we're not going to get anywhere with immigration or all the visa programs we're talking about until we secure the border first, and we're not going to get anywhere unless we change that law. and we're not going to get anywhere unless we have a republican majority in the senate of the united states. we keep hearing about this gridlock. we will end the gridlock with a republican majority. this is simple.

the road to a republican majority is to get the senate moving again, get answers on -- a road run right through kansas. a vote for pat roberts is a vote for a republican majority. so end the gridlock. a vote for greg orman is a vote to continue the barack obama agenda. >> what is your policy on energy? >> i say yes to the fossil fuels, less yes to the pipeline, and think about what would happen if we actually opened up that pipeline? less energy dependent on mr. putin. energy is the driver of our whole economy. open up the pipeline. export the natural gas to europe. quit declaring war on our oil and depass industries. that is what happens under the obama administration, and that is exactly what i -- what a vote for greg orman would be. to hand the energy industry bhack to barack obama and harry reid. a couple days ago the president agreed that this whole election is a referendum on his policies and program, and that's true. that's what this is all about. a vote for greg orman is to continue the barack obama policies. a vote for pat roberts is to stop them and get our energy industry back on track. -- i believe they have been far too partisan for far too long. the senator can say that over and over again, but it doesn't

make it so. i'm the only person on the stage that has any experience in the energy industry. i ran a natural gas exploration and production company that produced natural gas out of coal and methane. that industry was the first industry to use horizontal drilling to get at our natural gas resources, which we all know is a big part of the energy renaissance in the united states today. i believe we can have an energy renaissance here in the united states if we look at things like wind energy. we need to look at large scale storage for energy so we can turn wind energy into an economic boon for kansas. i believe we need to support oil and gas development. i believe we need to support a migration to some of these cleaner technologies as part of our portfolio. and as someone who used to work at an electric company, i think we need to look at promoting fuels like cng and lng. if you look at the grid in kansas city, there is a lot of excess energy we can use to power those at night. i think there is a lot to look at in the energy sector, and i think we need to pursue it. >> most people believe the social security -- will have a shortfall. how will this impact employees, employers scomprks workforce democrats? what are your views on how and when the social security program

should be reformed? mr. orman, we'll start with you. >> what i said throughout the campaign consistently is that for those people nearing retirement, for those people over the age of 50 that have planned their retirement around social security, i don't believe we need to make any changes. for people younger -- younger. for people -- i think there is evidence to suggest we can help create longevity in the social security trust fund by getting our checks a little later. the other thing we need to address is the social security disability system. right now 20 cents out of every dollar that social security spends is spent on disability payments. the number of people on social security has gone up over six million since the turn of the century. most of those people have musculoskeletal disorders that are hard to determine if they are actually occurring. i think the social security program is something that needs to be protected, but right now i think it is being abused. i think one way we can project longevity of social security is to make sure other components of the program, like disabilities program, are being used properly. >> the financial security program has been financially secure to 2034.

as you know, social security is the third rail of politics. >> what i said throughout the campaign consistently is that for those people nearing retirement, for those people over the age of 50 that have planned their retirement around social security, i don't believe we need to make any changes. for people younger -- younger. for people -- i think there is evidence to suggest we can help

create longevity in the social security trust fund by getting our checks a little later. the other thing we need to address is the social security disability system. right now 20 cents out of every dollar that social security spends is spent on disability payments. the number of people on social security has gone up over six million since the turn of the century. most of those people have musculoskeletal disorders that are hard to determine if they are actually occurring. i think the social security program is something that needs to be protected, but right now i think it is being abused. i think one way we can project longevity of social security is to make sure other components of the program, like disabilities program, are being used properly.

>> the financial security program has been financially secure to 2034. as you know, social security is the third rail of politics. the problem is, both parties really have not touched that. there is not a social security box behind the speaker's chair or behind the acting presiding officer where the money is. the money is taken out of the general trade. i think we have to get the economy going, and if we get the pro-job, and pro-growth ideas -- may i repeat the senate is in gridlock and it's in one person's hands, that's harry reid. he only allowed the democrats seven amendments, because he doesn't want to vote on the

tough issues. social security would be one of them. i want to go back to this situation that my opponent states he will not tell you where he stands or who he will caucus with. he's not going to go for mitch mcconnell. we understand that. now he says he's not going to vote for harry reid. that's going to be of interest to harry reid, because he gave money to harry reid. he also voted for the president and gave money to the president. he ran as a democratic in 2008. he gave money to hillary clinton. by deed and by campaign donation, he's a democrat. who will he vote for to lead the senate? or will he vote for anybody? just hand up a little sign and say, i'm present, i'm here? who will he caucus on? he's just one independent who's going to go and look for people who have good ideas. that's rather ridiculous.

>> our next question has to do with the health care act. do you favor repeal or repair of the a.c.a.? if repair, how would you repair? how would you start? mr. roberts, i'll let you start with this. >> i think we need to repeal. just this month more people losing their insurance, the doctor-patient relationship is threatened. we have rationing and waiting under obama care. taxes with obama care. $1 trillion. many people are not even aware of the taxes that are involved until obama care. i voted against obama care. i think it should be repealed, but i also think it should be replaced.

i also think we should have a health care system that moves away from the goals of this administration. barack obama, harry reid, nancy pelosi all said obama care is the first step toward national health insurance. we don't want and don't need national health insurance. we need a system that is market driven. we have health savings accounts. a of things have to be restored. it is that doctor-patient relationship that really has to be restored. so i think we have to repeal it,

we have to replace it. we have a considerable number of republican ideas to s -- ideas to do that, first we have to win the senate. harry reid will not -- the house has passed 350 bills. as i said, the senate is the place where good bills go to die. so all of the repeal and replaced legislation passed by the house of representatives and shared in many cases with many different senators has been stopped by harry reid. unless you stop him, the same thing is going to go on. because the president has indicated this is a referendum on his policies and his programs and his legacy. if you look at his legacy, you will see this guy is a liberal democrat. i don't know you can't come clean about it and just be proud that you are a liberal democrat. >> the senate suggested i voted for harry reid. i want everyone to know, i didn't commit voter fraud. i didn't go to nevada and vote in that election. the senator also talks about contributions. some of the contributions he's

failed to talk about are my contributions to republicans. i actually gave money to scott brown in massachusetts in 2010 precisely because he was the vote that was supposed to prevent the affordable care act from becoming law. that's why i made that contribution. i've said from the beginning that i think the affordable care act expanded a proken system. when asked the question will you repeal the affordable care act, what i've said is, i think that's a false choice. i think any senator who stands up here and tells you he is going to repeal the affordable care act is ignoring the reality that president obama will simply veto the bill. so from my standpoint, what i say is, let's start talking about the real issue in health care. let's start talking about health care affordability. we have a health care affordability crisis in this country. we had it before the affordable care act. we have it today. for people like me who run businesses and like you, you know every year you try to decide what kind of raises you can give employees. every year the first question you have to answer is, how high have my health care premiums gone? last year we gave 2.5% raises. it would have been 4%, 4.5%, if we didn't have to deal with the rising cost of health care. the reason we have a health care affordability crisis is

because the incentives are all i don't know. we pay for quantity and not quality. if we realign the incentives in health care, i think we can get affordable health care that is also very high quality. that's what i think we need to be folkoused on. >> the marketplace has become increasingly global, certainly challenging businesses to remain flexible and competitive. what are your views on wage and benefit man at a time? including, potentially increasing the federal minimum wage and out-sourcing of jobs overseas? mr. orman you will lead us on this one. >> as a small business owner, i have to deal with these issues every day. my father refers to this as the bee hive of regulations. what he says, these mandates, any one of them, you can survive,

they are like a bee sting, but the collective effect of all of them is like falling into a bee hive. collectively i believe we are over-mandated, over-regular lated in this country which is one of the reasons we came out with our small business plan, repealing dodd-frank. someone said to me, that's impossible to do. how are they going to do that? i said that's precisely my point. if it is impossible for the government to be able to review it every 10 years, one-10th of them, how difficult do you think it is for industry to comply with

them? i definitely think we need to be smarter about that. the other thing i talked about is, if we are going to regulate business, we need to do it more efficiently. my father's store will get visited by the department of transportation because he has trufpblgts he will get visited by osha because he has a spray booth. he will get visited by -- i think we can do a better job of consolidating that regulation so it is not as intrusive. the average small business in america today now pays about $11,000 for employees complying for regulation. i think that's the problem. >> mr. roberts? >> the key is to get the regulatory reform bill through the senate. i was one of the first people that took the president's order and said let's look at all the regulations that have been prom gated to date and all the regulations you will do down the road, and if the cost out-weighs the benefit, we won't do that. harry reid wouldn't let us

consider the bill. that's the problem is the gridlock in washington. everybody here knows about the regulatory overkill. i can't go any place in kansas or any section of our economy when we have not experienced regular industry over-kill. you walk in a room, someone hands a piece of paper, senator, have you seen this regulation? i probably did not. they didn't until tuesday and that's on a wednesday. it used to be you could go in and talk to the agencies and at least have it make a little sense. that isn't the case now. you have a regulatory agenda where that person you are talking to has an agenda, and you are not going to win that. you may be -- that's why people think many people have lost faith in their government. that's because the government doesn't have faith in the business community.

they don't trust us. that's why you have to change this. but we can't do it when we have a rpt that stands up and says, this is a referendum on my policies and pram programs. he says this is what the election is all about. again, by word, by deed he is one person. he gave to kansas tems, harry reid. this man is a liberal democrat. he will say otherwise, but that's not the case. >> higher education is important to a well trained competitive work force. much of the funding, of course, comes from state, tuition, and donations. what do you see as the role of the federal government in higher education? >> number one, i think the federal government should live up to what we promised for special education, more especially in our elementary schools and in our

high schools. i think the amount of money we provide is somewhere around 12%, 13%. that's going to be an awful tough job. we have a budget situation where we have i debt of $18 trillion. i actually teamed up with a democratic member of the senate in insisting we can put a mandate on the federal government. that in one area is where i think the federal government can be of help. i believe in education. local control is best control. that is because we have the knowledge and hands-on experience. we don't need more federal mandates telling our kids how

much to eat in a school lunch. no child left behind. if you want to get out of that, you have to get into more regulations. just let me say again, i have a record of creating real jobs and on the education votes that the nsib scored and the chamber of commerce scorksd that's who they endorse. the same issues that you deal with, the same issues that i talked about in kansas and also in washington. that's why they endorse me. they did not endorse my opponent. my opponent is very amorphus on

where he stands on the issues. that's why the chamber endorsed me, and also went on to say -- i didn't say this -- went on to say my opponent is, in fact, by donation, by deed, by past experience, he wasn't independentent when he ran against me in 2008 and he isn't now. they defined him as a liberal democrat. i know why he says he wants to be an independent. it's because if he says he's a liberal democrat, we won't vote for him. >> i would actually invite everyone to go to my web site and look at my responses to the issues and draw your own conclusions about who i am as a candidate. i have actually always been independent minded, i've always been fiscally responsible and socially tolerant, by more importantly, focused on solving problems. i would ask you to not listen to what you are hearing hear today but to look at the web site and draw your own

conclusions. i would like to address a couple other questions before we get to higher education. first, senator roberts said the senate is the problem. i agree the senate is run poorly. the house has similar problems. david camp, chairman of the committee on house reform, put together a bill that his own chamber wouldn't take up because it was a difficult issue. the senate passed an immigration bill that 14 senators agreed with. senators twho i will tell you greed with my position on immigration, including guys like john mccain, the house wouldn't take that bill up. both parties are to blame. both chambers of congress are acting in an overly political way. as to higher education, i believe thaze policy failure in our government. we spend over $100,000 a year on guarantee yeed student loans, pell grants all with the goal of making higher education more

affordable, yet we don't hold colleges and universities accountable for that will public policy goal. i think we need to say to colleges and universities who get taxpayer money so that specific goal that you have to increase your rate increases -- i'm a capitalist, if you don't want to do that, that's fine, by don't do it with taxpayer money. >> advice and consent is a key constitutional issue, and it is likely vakiansies will occur on a wide variety of issues and require senate confirmation. what are your views on the process? do you have a particular litmus

test or principles that will guide you in your con fir nation mation vote? mr. orman you will start us off. >> i look at confirmation votes the same way you find people to run companies. you have to ask some basic questions. one, are they qualified to do the job. two, does their track record suggest they are thoughtful and reasonable and intelligent people. as a chief executive of a company, i also understand the need of chief executives to aappoint their own team. i would be less inclined to turn down a candidate unless i really thought that candidate for the job had some serious red flags, some questions in judgment that were real lapses in judgment, a lack of capabilities. otherwise, i any if -- i think if you would approach it to the way you would hire an executive for your company, i would address it, and we need to let republicans and desms pick the team they think they need to pick to run various cabinet agencies. >> mr. roberts? >> it was just this past session when the drems broke the rules to break the rules, and less than 60 votes on nominations and judges, it went down to 51. they were able to ram through

many of their nominations in judges on a 51-vote basis. one way to stop that was a legislative maneuver, which i won't get into because it's too complex, but the first thing a republican majority will do is restore minority rights so that we get it right on nba.com nages and judges. i don't have a litmus test, but i want people nba.com nailted to be for limbed government. i don't want them to be legislating from the bench from some agenda. and i want them to be conservative. conservative in the standpoint that they don't have over-reach with regard to their responsibilities. how is that working out for us with regard toll harry reid and barack obama? i.r.s., department of health and human services, the e.p.a. i don't want to name names here, but all these people have an jepped. department of the interior. this is an incredible agenda. the agenda fits. it fits the obama-reid agenda.

eye vote for pat roberts is a vote to achieve the senate majority and put back the rules that we had before for 225 years. a vote for greg orman is to continue the barack obama and the harry reid jens agenda. it is really that simple. >> time to move now to closing statements. senator roberts you can lead us off. >> the eyes of the nation are on kansas. the rest of the country is counting on us to get it right this election. it will be up to us, to kansas, to determine who will be in the majority in the united states senate. it is up to kansas to help restore a long over-due check on the

obama-reid agenda. a republican majority majority will repeal and replace obama care, stop the president and his allies from forcing amnesty on america. a republican majority will bring common sense principles to our country. we will get the government off your back, lower your taxes, and help give you and your family freedom to pursue your dreams and those of your children and grandchildren. i am the only candidate in this race who can deliver that republican majority, who will fight for kansas values and fight for you. i'm a man of my word. the same cannot be said of my opponent. we don't know who my opponent

is. he dodges questions and tries to take both sicedz of every issue. trying to get greg orman's opinion on an issue is like trying to nail jello on a wall. greg orman is no independent. he's a dyed in the wool democrat by word and deed. elections determine the future of our country. the people of kansas need someone in the senate who has a back bone. first my opponent says he's a republican, then he says he's a democrat. then just this year he became an independent. legislation, who and what will greg orman be next year? do you want to gamble our children's future on a man with no convictions? mr. orman ran against me in 2008. he has given thousands of dollars to the democrat. hillary clinton, harry reid, and

barack obama. that is not an independent. a vote for greg orman is a vote to hand the future of the country over to harry reid and barack obama. mr. orman is pro-am midwesty. he wants more government restrictions on the first and second amendment, if you believe that, and he won't repeal obama care. that's not an independent. i voted against obama care every time, and i'll continue that fight. we must stop president clinton from another presidential amnesty. he's threaten today do that again. we need to create jobs and provide certainties. i will do that. i have a strong record of this, which is why the u.s. chamber, the same issues we take when you meet with you here when you come to washington and the same issues i talk to you here and the national independent federation of business, also the same issues, they have endorsed me. friends our vision is their vision. most of all pill fight every waking palestinian to restore our

faith in government, a government that governs, not rules. a government that is a partner, not an adversary, and a government that respects the vision of our vanding fathers. thank you, and my -- founding fathers. thank you, and god bless the united states and our great state of kansas. >> mr. orman. >> thank you for everyone who took time to be here and those of you who are listening at home and to my wife cybil. >> the way you solve problems is by applying logic and common sense and then make a.i.g. practical decision. the decision we have in front of us today is a simple one. do we want a continuation of

what we've had in the past? is the status quo acceptable? are we solving problems? is a government that behaves like two children fighting in the back seat of a driverless car what we want to hand off to future generations? if it is, i'm not your guy. if you want to try something new. if you believe we are at a point and time in our country when we have to send a message, i'm asking for your vote. we're the country that put a man on the moon, that harvests the power of the atom. i believe that country and those people can solve any problem when they put their minds together and work together. we can't accomplish any of that if we continue to accept that there are only two paths forward. i am running as an independent to reject the two-path agenda. i believe we can have humane border controls and -- border controls and a humane amnesty program.

we won't get there if we keep electing part sans. change can be scary. but what frightens me is more of the same. what pritens me is the health care system running out of control. what frightens me is a federal government that seems to grow regardless of what happens in washington. what frightens me is two parties that seem more interested in seeing the other party fail than working together so that our country can succeed. i believe this election is an opportunity for the people of kansas to send a message to both parties that you can't hide behind your party label. that if you can't set your differences aside and saturday solving problems, we will find someone who will. this is an opportunity to -- for kansas to say -- this election

is an funt for cans caps to show the nation what's right with kansas. you can read more about my vision at orman for senate dot com. today i'm asking for your votes to finally get washington back into the business of solving problems, regardless of party labels. >> thank you both for being here. a nice round of applause for our candidates today. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] of our campaign 2014 coverage we have more senate debates coming up today. starting in about one hour and

arkansas senate debate between mark prior and tom cotton, , and markrance sweeney. fly 7 p.m., democrat mark warner running for his second term in virginia running against ed gillespie, former counsel to george w. bush. it is his first run for public office. also tonight at 8:00 eastern, allisonconnell and lundberg and drives in lexington, kentucky. >> be part of the campaign 2014 coverage. join us on twitter, like us on facebook to get previews from our politics team. c-span is bringing you over 100 senate, house, and governors debate. you can instantly share your reactions. the battle for the control of

congress. on c-span.d and >> jim rich is seeking a second term, his opponent met with him last week for their only debate before the november election. the rothenberg political report listed the race as solid republican. this comes to us courtesy of casey the needed boise, idaho. >> during the next hour we will have a debate of the issues, face-to-face, before the

november 4 election. what will it take to win your vote? decision 2014 starts now. >> here is mark johnson. >> welcome to the debate for the u.s. senate. alongside me here are the candidates for election. here is nels mitchell, a practicing attorney for more than 30 years, he received his law degree from the u of i. he also worked as the associate for the director securities exchange commission. therich previously served governor and the 10 a governor and sits on five senate including foreign relations, intelligence, and ethics. gentlemen, thank you for agreeing to participate. let me introduce you to our panel. dr. jim wetherbee is here, alongside justin core.

debate we drew for one minute statements. the floor is yours, senator. >> thank you very much, mark. thank you for watching today, ladies and gentlemen. i am sure that you are watching because you want to make a choice about who to vote for in this race. it will be very easy, the choice will be put -- will be crystal clear. if you want a liberal democrat, you have my opponent, mr. mitchell. if you want a conservative person, a republican person, find that person. 68% of us, you and i, fought to keep barack obama from imposing is fundamental, cultural, changing agenda on the united dates. while we were doing that, this

gentleman was funding the other side. he contributed thousands in his own money and a -- in an effort, trying to elect first hillary obama. and then barack with howe happy president obama is trying to take this country, he your guy. i have every confidence that over the next 837 days the choice will be clear. we are two very different people . with that, i yield the floor to the judge in california. >> mr. mitchell. boise high school. i love my state and the country. i went into the senate to replace a career politician with someone who will represent the idaho values of responsibility, honesty, and hard work.

as your u.s. senator i will work hard to create economic opportunity, good paying jobs for the people of idaho. i won't waste your money by shutting down the government like they did last year. here and as an idaho. like you i am sick and tired of the gridlock and dysfunction in washington. we can do better. thank you. >> part of the issue is education. the first question, senator rich, we begin with you. what should the role of the federal government be when it comes to our state school system ? >> i have parent teachers association's from idaho, lots of people with different

interests in education coming back to washington, d.c. to work with me. i hear from them over and over again. their biggest challenge as far as d.c. is concerned is that every time pc does something by giving them money or something else, they attach all kinds of federal strings to it. i could not agree with them more. we can run these school district ourselves right here in idaho. the legislature can do this. they don't need washington, d.c. tying strings to it. >> mr. mitchell. public school system needs al, no question. we spent less per state -- than any other state per pupil, less than even mississippi. i