their own health care choices, making politicians in madison the deciders on this is ridiculous. factually to talk about safety at the same time that you have cuts in funding have resulted in closure of five clinics throughout the state of that provided needed health care, such as cancer birth control and family planning services. along with mandating invasive are against at woman's right to choose. i think this is absolutely wrong should be women who are able to make these choices for themselves. walker?nor >> in terms of funding we just moved it to other areas, for example the winnebago county public health department, we one area tom another. but we've added funding, in fact thislked about it on stage, we increased funding for cancer center. we've added about $15 million more to help victims of domestic

violence and child abuse prevention. we've done more to help victims of other issue as cross the state. so we've actually added to that in this last budget. you.ank >> governor walker, i think, is trying to have it both ways. he talks about health and safety if it's pretty reasonable. but his position is anything but reasonable. in theeves that even extreme cases of rape and incest that that is not a woman's that as politicians that are deciding that for them. that is wrong. awayaking that decision from women is not something that i would do as governor. this entireatch wisconsin governors debate between governor scott walker burke atrat mary c-span.org. campaignt of c-span's 2014 coverage, follow us on twitter and like us on facebook. get debate schedules, video clips of key moments, debate team.ws from our politics

c-span is bringing you over 100 house and governor debates and you can share your reactions to what the candidates are saying. the battle for control of andress, stay in touch engage by following us on twitter, at c-span, and liking facebook at facebook.com/c-span. >> a house panel will investigate the use and possible abuse of government issued cards. we'll hear from inspectors general from a number of federal agencies. live coverage from the house oversight committee begins at 1:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. on c-span 2 a discussion about some of the technology benefits of self driving cars. that's live from the cato at noon eastern. a debate from michigan between incumbent governor rick democratichis challenger, mark schauer. governor snyder was first

2010, with more than 58% of the vote. this comes courtesy of the free press and detroit public television.

now let me introduce the candidates for governor. governor rick snyder and schauer.an mark [applause] >> gentlemen, welcome. as christy noted there are few rules in this format, no clock, buzzers but we do ask that concise sour answers we can move through as many issues as possible. have foregone opening statements so we can get right to questions.

the stage putsd the first question to mr. schauer. yourchauer, you've said opponent has got cut $1 billion from education spending, where do you come up with that number? you.rst i want to thank it's great to be at wayne state university. i was raised in livingston my dad was a teach are and my mom was a nurse. they taught me that the key to a a good education. that rick cut a billion dollars from public seniors raised taxes on and gave 80, 90% pay raises to executives in state government. i think that's wrong. the key to a good job is a good is my number one priority. verifiableare some sources you can look to. the senate fiscal agency. first budget cut $930 million from our public

schools. he even told the kalamazoo at that time that those cuts would be difficult. he's right. classroom were, pupil.$300 per that hurts our kid. they're in more crowded classrooms. thehers don't have materials they need. basic programs have been eliminated. is a fact that schools still have less per pupil, dollars had the classroom when he started four years ago. close with this. it.t take my word for talk to any teacher, talk to school board members, parents, school districts all around the state. even met with a group of parents in east grand rapid. they are going door to door raising money on social media holding bake sales to raise money for music, art,

foreigneducation and languages. that's wrong, that hurts our kids, hurts our economy. yourt's hear from opponent. governor, did you cut a billion dollars out of education? >> no. it's really clear. let's make this simple, because you hear about a lot of terms of things in different pieces of that, different pieces of this. let me make this as simple as possible. a year before i became governor, wasstate budget for k12 10.6 billion. that's a number that doesn't change. the budget i just signed into law was $11.7 billion. so the budget i just signed is more than a billion dollars higher than the year before i office. if you take those three years in between and look at those budgets, it's 1.1 billion in a cumulative fashion more than if would have taken that 10.6 every year. that's not -- the part i would reenforce is i the free press.

the free press actually covered it to say i've been truthful for education. and unfortunately our broken political system has people making up lies. good for any of us. it's important to invest in education because kids are our future, i believe it in. and one them r thing i'm proud of to add to that, not only is k12 important, but we've become no wait state for preschool. we've made the largest andstment in dollars percentage for preschool of any state in the nation. why would we make that if we were cutting education. it's really to focus on third reading, we're doing atter in michigan, we're 70%, but we need to get that number even higher. work on that in our second term. >> i don't think you two are on theing to agree billion dollar cut. but i would ask congressman

schauer, charter schools have been another area of contention over the last several months. charter schools need more regulation? would you put the cap back on? >> absolutely. thank you for that question. the first thing i'm going to do as governor is put the money that we took from our public schools. nonpartisank again sources, there are less dollars in the classroom, dollars that kids, than before he became governor. one of the other problems that's school our schools, districts all over the state, there are 48 school districts deficit.in there would be even more because a number of them have disappeared because they went broke. charter schools were allowed to no oversight. it was a big mistake by this governor, and it's hurting our kids, most of, steven, the free onss did an eight-day series what's happened to our public schools, 80% of these charter run by for profit

companies. ablic education should not be profit making venture. dollars should get to the classroom to our kids. these are unregulated schools with sweetheart real estate accountability. it is hurting our kids. yes, i wouldn't expect my opponent with his record to sign law oversight of charter schools. i will do it when i am governor. are charter schools hurting public education? >> charter schools are giving we'ves choice, because had a lot of failing schools in our state. the point behind charter schools parents the opportunity to have their kid get an education. create some competition in our system. that's important. and they're not unregulated. there's authorizers behind them the department of education helps provide oversight. you though can tell is i think we need higher standards for all schools, both publics and traditional

schools. we need to raise those standards. money, i amk about a strong believer in traditional public school. when we talk about that funding talked about the billions that we've invested more in education, actually i an it in a fashion that gave extra slice to traditional public schools more than charter schools. other part i did it for was to make sure those hard working teachers actually have a well funded retirement system. issues thatf the wasn't properly funded. so when you see those teachers on tv, hopeut me any they'll recognize we've done they have a sure well funded retirement plan. because i believe in that, important. >> governor, we have an audience issue.n on this >> tell us your name and your question. hi, my question is, what are your plans to support higher education and job training so that we make sure that michigan

ready for good jobs? much.nk you so do you go to school here at wayne state? >> yes. >> great. who wants a student to become a teacher. and by the way, i believe that importantare the most profession in our society. withill be graduating $32,000 of student loan debt. she also told me about her boyfriend. getink they're going to married, sound like to me, and he's a law student. he will be graduating with $100,000 in student loan debt. imagine that combined. that with rick as governor, tuition has increased every year for college students. you are racked with student loan cost of tuition that puts colleges out of sight. so i'm going to do three things. keep ourre going to commitment as a state to our state universities to increase funding. were cut 15% by this governor in his first year.

wayne state was cut $42 million. going to provide more need based financial aid for students so that everyone pursue higher education can do that. and third, we're going to put loanher a student revolving fund to help students brianna bolton, who i met, and you refinance that student so that they're not saddled with that. and actually they can spend more economy.income in our i understand the key to building a strong economy is from the the middle out, not from the top down. >> governor, same question. luck on your career. if you look at it, higher ed is critically important. key things i'll tell you, because it is too expensive, we need to be more innovative. i just got my associates agree a couple weeks ago from the community college, i was really proud of that. when i was in bats creek i was

to their programs. they have 1200 students in dual enrollment. are encouraging dual enrollment in every part of the state. get college you can credit while going to high school. we're going to increase financial need based resources, helping manage costs. but let's be innovative. by getting a year of college done while you're still in high school, you can cost the cost of master's degree by 25% and an 50%.iates degree by the other thing that's port is career tech education, that's a priority for me in a second term is creating those middle class job opportunities greater training, through career tech ed as a the university track. we're already doing it at some colleges, butty it can be better. you go into the program, start

youing for a company, alternate going to school, the company pays your tuition cost while you go to school. of three years you come out with an associates degree, a certificate, a a workeed job, and commitment for two years. careerk about a great opportunity -- >> we're going to move onto a different subject. reforms resulted in about $1.7 billion less in revenue.tax there's also about a billion, individual more in tax revenue coming in, largely from middle and low income earners. good policy, why is that fair? billion start, we had a and a half deficit when i took office. we had the lost decade before i came into office. we've seen a big recovery. what was the point of the terms ofchanges in changing the tax laws? to make it fair. about fairness. you remember all those companies that were closing up, part of it

a big tax burden. when you have to pay your taxes, you know how tight it was. putting an extra tax on our businesses to say not only do you have to pay the tax, becausecome most of these are small and medium size businesses, we're going to stick you with a second tacts. if you went to indiana, why were tose businesses going indiana? they were marketing their greatest economic development to a michigan business tax, it was killing jobs, folks. we got rid of that unfair tax a simpleced it with fair 6% corporate net income tax. companies are still paying the same roughly except they got rid of all those incentives. for the small and medium sized people, do we have any here tonight? we've got a few. like.ow what it was we built a tax system that said the people that create jobs, that's where jobs come from, should pay more than we pay on our salaries and wages.

how you create jobs. what we made was a fair system to encourage job creation. the congressmen voted for the michigan business tax. to get rid of the -- >> congressman you said you wanted to repeal pension tax. how would yout, make up the revenue, and is that 401-k's foraxing instance but not pensioners? >> thank you, steven. i would encourage you to read the column a week ago that talked about this issue. rick cut taxes for businesses by 1.8 billion. inre are 95,000 businesses michigan that pay zero taxes including to fix our roads. balancing thet budget. he dug the hole $1.8 billion and then turned around and cut a billion dollars from our schools, raised taxes on families, low wage $rners and on pensioners by

1.4 billion. yes, i will repeal the job tax.ng pension it is wrong, it is bad tax policy, it is breaking a seniors to's causing leave our state and prevent state.from coming to our born 1952 orple saf are paying $3100 a more a year in tax and he thinks that's fair. it will be the easiest thing i governor because there are a number of republican lent slaters that want to repeal it. iswhat we're going to do provide tax fairness in our state. it, we start by cutting all the wasteful sweetheartd contracts that this government created, starting with his us ingeorge's furniture contract, stop giving tax breaks to companies that cut jobs or jobs overseas, eliminate this wasteful scandalous air

mark contract. that's just for starters. >> he said you put too much much middlen on low and income earners. >> well, let's talk about the pension tax, i'm glad that came up because that's a mischaracterization of what we did. we created a fair system. what by that? we built a system that had a wonderful benefit, if you had kind of pension income. if you happen to have a public payree pension, you didn't any michigan income tax regardless of your age or the amount of that pension. to have apened defined benefit plan through a private employer, you didn't get the same deal, you were excluded up to sermt limits. if you happened to work at a place where you got a 401-k and you start taking those leftibutions after you work, part of it was taxable, part of it wasn't. for the people that didn't have retirement plan that were still having to work, they were toing michigan income tax, be blunt i don't think that's fair. any sense?ake

so what did we do? one, we realized we had a big group of people, so we grand fathered in the seniors. we grand fathered them in. provision inial for anyone over 60. and what else did we do, we put new senior exclusion. so we helped those people that were still having to work, not pay tax.o if you think about it, we actually created an exclusion $40,000 for a married couple for a working family that they don't have to pay. seniorslly we helped across the board. accountant our governor is missing some columns on his spread sheet, and it's people. retired frome is meyer, her husband is retired from general motors, they counted on that pension. into a gentleman the other day who said he voted for you said he was sorry.

he's paying $133 more a year in on his pension, he said that's a utility payment, i can't afford it. it is bad policy. if you think that's fair, no is notour economy working. >> i think it's fair to help working seniors so say they break. a people that didn't have a certain kind of retirement income, they need help and provided them. and the other part i'd like to mention is he's brought up a couple other things that had to do with the question. he brought up my cousin and the furniture contract, so i'd like out.raighten that let's get the facts straight on that one. that contract, my cousin is a think it's, i somewhat disgusting that he's impinging on a good person's name. contracts with heyworth. my cousin is the distributor. the that contract has been out with that hayworth and him as the distributor for 20 plus years, a couple decades. the last time it was renewed and went through the whole process

being reevaluated and re-signed was before i became governor. do with me to becoming governor. so this is a professional making up, again, stuff. the other one he mentioned earlier was the investment officer. he said i gave huge raises to my officials. civil service employees, folks. that was approved by the bipartisan civil service commission. managinghey're $60 billion -- >> we've got a lot of issues to go through. just get one more line on this. think about it. important.his is these people are managing the head person is managing $70 billion. do we have any u.a.w. members? move on.or, we have to issue.oving on with this >> i'll get back to it. >> we're not going to. aboutgoing to talk transportation and roads. congressman, michigan mass some of the worst roads in the

nation. them, who paysx and how? >> thank you, that is an incredible question. three biggest issues i hear from people is i've traveled in every state, every one of our 83 counties, it's school cuts, pension tax, and our roads. we are 50 out of 50 in per cap roads.ending on our it shows, you spend $2.5 billion collectively here on repairs to our cars because of the horrible roads. won't do.you what i at crunch time in the legislative process where and republicans were really trying to put a solution together early in the summer, i be in manhattan with a billionaire hosting a fundraiser for me. think we understand why he's now spending $2 billion on campaign.his when i was in the legislature my first term, we solved this last time it's the was done. not awol.r was

we did this together. first thing, as a former member of congress and transportation committee, we're going to get washington.re from when i was there, i brought back $850 million to help fix our we have much more to do. i know we've got some people to help usre going do that. >> congressman, we have to hear from your opponent. governor, how are you going to the roads, who pays? >> yeah, and we're going to get a solution. lame duck it should be a top priority. for this for ang couple years, because it is and --afer roads, jobs, how many people have a bent rim in the past year? did. of people the challenge was, much of the legislature was having a tough addressing this issue. pothole season brought it home. what we got was pretty far along process. we got farther than had been done in a lot of years, but it

election year so you found many legislators saying they weren't going to vote for a going into anse election season. so let's get it done, because it's for everyone's benefit. better road will lead to better jobs, save hundreds of lives a off.and make us better if the congressmen and the people back in '97 would have it something other than cents per gallon we would most likely not be having this today.ion >> thank you. you have an audience question? >> yes. question?r stance on your implementing mass trants it in michigan? but.. schauer, we'll start >> thank you very much, that's a great question. a nonprofitlly run community development organization that provided transportation and transit the elderly and handicapped in battle creek. it is critical to help detroit back, to help our cities come back, we need transit. to of the reasons we need

fix our roads, and it is a question of leadership and i will lead in a bipartisan way to get this done, and my time in the legislature will help me do that. but there's funding in the transportation package for transit. >> in terms of mass transit, i'm happy with what we're doing. we did something that hadn't happened for decade. we got through bipartisan legislation to do a regional transit authority. one of the great missing needs in metro detroit for decades, we got it done and to move forward with it. and one raim, we moved forward with that project. speed rail we're doing in michigan. so i'm very proud of the track record i have, because it a the futuretunity for and it one of those place making things that attract young people to michigan. >> thank you, governor. >> governor, detroit has an emergency manager and is trying to get through a complicated bankruptcy. is this the right policy, the right approach to the relationship between cities and

states, is there more the state need to do to prevent cities from falling into those what dol problems, and they need to do to help them out on the back end? question.s a big let me start the other way, that actually what we're doing now is early warning system to help communities, because i wanted to appoint an emergency manager. it's an objective process. simply decide that. certain conditions in terms of financial emergency have to exist first. detroit, i went through that in a very systematic way, trying to work administration in detroit to say let's just work together. that didn't work. agreement toent say the city needed to do certain things to get the city out of trouble. weren't done. so then it came to an emergency manager, so i appointed an emergency manager, and then it came to the question of actually putting detroit into bankruptcy. the toughestnt of decisions to be made in the united states. it was the right decision to

make. look at where we are today. we're within a month to two ouths most likely of coming of bankruptcy. we would have shed $9 billion in liabilities. we hadn't have done this, the operating budget for the city of detroit more than 60% would go paying past debts. there would be no money for services. in the meantime, what's been happening, street lights have been going up, trash is being picked up, public safety is improving, violent crime is down in double digit percentages in detroit. all these good things are going on. now we've transitioned back out, because my goal is oh have the emergency manager come in, do out, and give the community good oversight site .oesn't fall backwards did have you ever thought you'd see detroit as well poised for a bright future as you do today? >> congressman, how would you differently? >> first, i believe in democracy, the people voted in to overturn that law as

governor, placing myself, governor in 2011, boy have abided by the will of the voters. what i would have done personally led, as governor i will be in detroit, i will work office on cadillac place and be a full partner with of mayor for the comeback detroit. mayor dugan is supporting me i'll be a knows strong and active partner. we need good jobs in our will doies, but what i as governor is put together teams whereansition we can be pro-active. what our current governor has done, two things, engaging in a strategy of fighting fires, fighting crises. course 69 million there are revenue sharing cut for police and fire in detroit didn't help. intofter cities get financial crises and school emergency they assign managers. the second thing is that i would cut retiree pensions.

our constitution is clear. guaranteed. and again, on top of the pension tax now cutting pensions through emergency manager is wrong, it's hurting people, that's no strong economy. >> let me give you a chance to respond to the question about democracy. you're suspending local democracy when you send in an manager. people in the state voted not to the have emergency managers. said is we've had emergency managers going back to in 1988.blanchard so there were a lot before i office.nto we enhanced the the skill set so they could come in do, their out.and get the bill said there were certain aspects that people didn't like, to that.ed think about this, traditionally emergency managers were there way too long. so in detroit other than the bankruptcy, the city is now running the city of detroit.

emergency manager have --nows working. what are you going to do to pay those $9 billion in liabilities? >> quickly, congressman. >> if i had been governor without an -- i'm not questioning whether detroit needed to go bankrupt, i would have personally led rather than have an unelected person do it. and i would never have thoan police officers and firefighters bus. the >> we didn't leave them underneath the bus.

i want to thank the bipartisan the legislature. retirees did take cuts, but we them.zed they ended up supporting the agreement and i respect them for this.great role in >> we have another question. >> gentlemen, i'm don gram and i believe that our cities are struggling with their budgets for public service. how can the governor's office assist in providing revenue for and rescuelice, fire services? >> thank you very much, don, great question. revenue sharing has been cut governorntly by this and the impact is fewer police officers and firefighters on the job. it is critical to building strong, health any communities. do is have ato strategy to support our cities. of innovationubs havingrepreneurship, and adequate basic services like roads and infrastructure are

attracting people and investment. what i will do, seeing that this system we have is put togethered to a strategy for municipal finance fundinggan, similar to our schools. proposal a is 0 years old. would agree it's not adequately funding our schools. together ouro pull localdeas involving communities to design a partnership between the state and our local communities. the fact is, our cities and areages and counties creations of the state. we are in this together. and i'll close with this. seen under this governor is a reverse trickle down. state has cut funding to local communities, what i see in community after community is

taxes for police and fire and to fix our roads. really -- >> we have to move onto the next subject. >> go ahead, governor. had a billion and a half dollar deficit so we had to make tough choices that first year did. since then we've been investing back in our cities in terms bringing back revenue sharing watching those numbers come. we've been critically focused on public safety, that is really important. flint, cities, detroit, pontiac and sag i gnaw, because they're four of the most violent the united states, near in the top 10. we're seeing double digit progress in terms of reducing violent crime in those communities. to give you an idea, do public safety people support the work doing, i'm proud to say a been endorsed by both the fraternal order of police and the police officers association of michigan. they understand what i've been

doing and they're supporting it. >> thank you, governor. as long as you're up there, take the next question to you. michigans unemployment rate national average. why hasn't job growth been more robust in the state and what to get people working mere and get household again? growing >> job growth has been robust in michigan and i'm proud of that track record. nearly 300,000 private sector jobs. when you talk how we lag, why would we lag? bottom. the during the last decade, we led unemployment in this nation for how many months, years. we improved dramatically. point when you hear about ton employment rate, how many people recognize that a lost inhose jobs we that lost decade went south, literally, to southern states. detroit people from went down to atlanta because there was an opportunity? game on how well we've improved, we've been the

fifth largest number of new jobs any state isy of in michigan, number five. in terms of rate of increase we're number 13. that's well beyond the bottom. that's coming back fast. you an idea of perspective, we now have the same unemployment rate as those where the jobs went. we matched tennessee, we actually matched california. idea, alabama mass a higher unemployment rate than michigan does now. georgia, atlanta, georgia has a much higher unemployment rate than michigan. we've come back hard. those jobs we were losing to the south, we're showing that we're keeping them here in mitch and we're bringing them back to michigan. that's exciting. you, governor. mr. schauer, how will you get this and economy growing at a greater speed? >> well, we first put the money schools cut to our back. we reverse the snyder job killing pension tax and provide tax cuts for middle class

families. the key tounderstand building strong economy fridays the bottom up and the middle the top down. our accountant governor's broken, i think he's even admitted that in his heevision commercials where said hire me for four more years and you don't feel it yet, but you will. success or road to recovery when we've got the fifth worst unemployment rate in the last national jobs report showed michigan losing the most jobs of any in the country, 9,500 jobs, we are one of the few country that hasn't recovered all the jobs lost in the great recession. michigan to his own economic development corporation, the median segment areob growth in michigan fast blue jobs. we need to rebuild our middle start by making public else indication our provide taxriority, cuts to middle class families.

and finally i will help small businesses, my wife christine owned a small business, we know will provideand i tax incentives to companies that create jobs in michigan. if they send their jobs overseas we'll make them repay every the taxpayer. create an economy that works for everyone. >> governor, you talked about the skill gaps, what will you do to erase a and make sure that the skills of workers match the jobs?ble >> it's about creating middle class jobs, and we're doing that in michigan. congressman didn't have miss facts straight. killing for the job michigan business tax. in terms of job creation the top is for the skill trades and that's everything from manufacturing to agriculture. square, thematt apprenticeship program we put

into place, there are so many create that job path and it's working in our state. one thing that's why i really want to ramp up is helping people become career connected. the people that, we're taking people that never had a job opportunity and giving them an opportunity. work.putting them to we're finding that nearly a 70% retention rate after a year. making over $11 an hour and now we're putting programs upwardto give them mobility. it's a jibe opportunity in detroit, with the bridge coming, with m1, with all the entertainment district what a great opportunity for skill trade jobs in our state. that's my top priority in a second term is to bring back training.e >> congressman? >> thank you very much. great question. of the industries here that skilled trained workers is the auto industry.

congress.e in we rescued the auto industry and saved tens of thousands of jobs in michigan. rick said that was overblown. i think he's wrong. work force is the key to making michigan competitive, to wage, high skill, high growth economy, that is my goal as governor. congress i worked for businesses in michigan and trained workers through the union construction trades and they are building our new economy, i've seen it firsthand, these are exactly the kinds of partnerships that i support as governor. skilled workne, a force is the key that's going to drive us forward. community colleges play a role in this partnership as well. that's why in our public thatls, cuts to schools eliminate basic vocational programs are hutting our economy force.k >> thank you.

christy? question.ve us your >> do you believe the raising the minimum wage would be good in michigan?my >> we'll start with you, governor. >> yeah, we did and that was a good bipartisan effort. so we worked together -- i said it was a good thing to do. we did that in a bipartisan fashion in terms of increasing state.imum wage in our and we did it in a thoughtful way. both parties came together, we had a good discussion and we did something to help the people of michigan. >> well, i'm very pleased a the minimum wage was raised. began my campaign early november of last year. of standing here in the city detroit proposing an increase in our minimum wage, and i think are wrong and i think we better here in michigan to see parents raiding their children wage jobs than poverty. of thempliment all citizens in michigan that collected signatures to raise

and candidly, i think my opponent was worried about that being on the ballot. so important that we support good wages for workers. minimum wage earners raising children are parents. women. and women are driving michigan's economy. the rightm wage is thing to do, we know that moreesses can hire employees when people have money canheir pockets so they spend for gasoline, groceries, diners and the kids. i'm pleased that the minimum wage was raised. i championed it, it was the do.t thing to >> congressman, if you're elected governor, you could face the possibility of a legislature that is controlled, where both houses are controlled by the opposite party. getare you going to anything done? >> well, i think the premise of on this election and who votes.

think the democrats are in a good position to win the state house, but we'll set that aside and make incredible gains in the state senate. i've served 12 years in the legislature, 10 of those years in the minority. i know what it's like to work together. tolped a company create jobs in homer over next corks it wasn't because i got my able tothe bill, i was work with members on the other side of the aisle and the governor's office to get it done. i think we've seen the experiment of a c.e.o. governor doesn't really understand legislators.ith i will value the legislative spend time with them, with my sleeves rolled up, whether it fixing our roads, whether it's helping to invest in our schools, but we will need

bipartisan solutions. i believe our best solutions are bipartisan ones and we need a governor who understands how the legislature works, respects how the legislature works and is roll up his sleeves to than find bipartisan solutions. going to say one more thing. having come in before term legislature, it was a time before democrats and republicans were genetically tolike each other or disagree. i think we need to change the in landing andre i plan to do that when i'm governor. a slightly, to you different question. your critics would say you've pushed into issues that you may not have agreed with by a legislature that's more than you are. how do you answer that, specifically with issues like work.to >> well, it's been about team partnership. the congressman was here when we shut down the statement

government, he was one of the leaders at that point in time. do we want washington coming back to michigan in terms of in washington today? i'm proud of being bipartisan in our state. we've done incredible things. the grand bargain to support the bankruptcy, helping mitch to bring health care to lower income and hard working people. ofould give you a long list part. one that touches my on bullying, we did that together. do the research on the signed intoave been law, over 75% have been bipartisan. polarizingbeen some bills occasionally. i vetoed bills when i didn't right.hey were and i'm proud of my track record. it happens rarely because i have working relationship with legislators. we do great team work, we have heated arguments, but we try to

work together because we're a higher level of civility and suspect than you find in washington. >> quick followup. >> again this is about leadership when the roads are fixed you need to be there, when former colleague and was saying every time the governor engaged the legislature about expanding medicaid we lost votes. leadership counts. tois important for governor reach out and work with the legislature. these are difficult challenges, our kid deserve that leadership, our economy deserves leadership, our seniors deserve that leadership and i look forward to it. lansing, where the legislature is, and i will work each and every day with the build an economy that works for everyone, not just the wealthy. like to add, the congressman is very good at sound bites, and he's wrought up just followshat the same path about how i wasn't in detroit.

now that i'm not in lansing. give you an idea of perspective, as governor you need to be all over michigan, my trackroud of record. in detroit i worked out of than 10 place more days -- 130 days since i've been governor. lot.s a and it's not a ceremonial office.it's a working actually they make fun of me i willes because often wear a tie on tuesdays because capitol day. >> governor, if the sixth after peelst upholds judge freed man's of michigan's gay marriage ban, will you ask the attorney general to pursue the appeal further or will you let the matter rest? >> again there are separate constitutional offices so we each have a choice in that matter and i'm going to wait for the opinion to come down. respect what happens in our court system.

>> where do you stand on the issue? i'm waiting for the outcome from the courts. >> congressman? voters deserve to know where the governor will stand on tough issues. me ony not agree with every issue, you may not agree with me on the issue of marriage equality or ending discrimination against people based on who they love. play no partn will governor.ce as now, his statement lead you to no position.s this governor through his own domesticre banned partner benefits for gay and lesbian employees. choices are tough on all the wrong people. i support marriage equality. brown, my running mate, wed after judge freed man's decision march 21 opened her office to marry committed same sex couples.

finally, it's not only the right but it's an economic issue in our state. against talented people we need to help rebuild our city and communities is wrong. to parents who have adult children who are professionals in other states, come here because we have back water policies. you have appealed judge so you aredecision, a party to opposing marriage equality in michigan. i think that's wrong, i disagree. >> congressman, since you're up spends morehigan than $2 billion a year on corrections, which is way more neighboringhan states. how do you cut that without public safety? >> great. well, the first thing i'll do is rid of the earmark prison food service contract, it never should have been awarded in the first place. i for the life of me can't understand why he hasn't afterated the contract smuggling contraband and inappropriate sexual relations

maggots in food and fines that were reported to the press but never charged. his own chief of staff pressuring the correctionings director to back off. do.'s what we need to theeed to have education is best remedy to preventing people from entering the criminal system, so there's a front door strategy. we've got to educate people. i've helped, and i was responsible for head start for i0 children, in addition two courts to give the communities tools to provide it's mentalhether health, substance abuse or even for veterans that may have traumatic brain injuries. so on the front end. terms of, i think in reducing the prison population, the next are there, i think at ourot to look sentencing guidelines.

corrections employee told me, when i was on the judiciary committee in the senate, we have we're mad at who versus who we're afraid of. early -- al elderly, sick folks in our prison that may not pose any danger. we need to review our sentencing guidelines and support the prisoner reentry initiative. 80 to 90% of prisoners come back home and it's in our best interest to not have them reoffend. >> governor, i want to give you -- >> i appreciate it. you've been one of the leaders, we spent more on higher ed than on corrections. >> more on correctionings. sorry, more on corrections than higher ed. we've cut the corrections budget by well over $100 million since the time i've been in office. the actual number it's not come down in terms of

numbers because now we're retirement forg workers that wasn't being done before. significantly reduced our costs in terms of corrections. a smarteed to do it in way. in terms of air mark, it's been other states. they've been doing their food service 10 years at a lower cost. they've got another state they've been in for some time. if you look at michigan, if you someone on am with contract the congressman would just throw them out. to work with people first before i throw somebody out. had problems with the they didcorrections, -- a with respect to corrections in general, i think the congressman my white papers again. we are doing sentencing reform, actively under way. in terms of courts, we're doing drug courts, veterans courts,

courts.y in terms of the united states, we're helping lay the effort in mental health commission. did outstanding workings because too often we're locking peep up when they have a mental issue, and we're getting on top of that. we're not talking about it, we're doing it. prisoner reentry, we actually did pretty well in michigan, but better, andne much we're improving that. >> give us your question, please. >> hi, i have a question about the environment. i would like to ask each candidate, what is your position and what plans would you put into effect in the event the water?ation of >> congressman shower. each for this one. >> let me be clear, part of my plan, talks about energy in

the environment. will never sacrifice the jobs.nment over as the great lakes state our quality of life, after our is our most precious asset. so we must protect our natural resources. i also want us to stop spending $24 billion a year on imported energy. that's why i've been a leader in growing the renewable energy here.y butt let me point out that the rules from rick's department of environmental would -- >> governor? >> i appreciate it, because we energy independents in this country. fracking is one of the most effective tools to do that, but it does need to respect the environment. i'm very pro environment. fracking.n we do i can tell you a stat here that

no one would really know. fracked overe 10,000 wells in our state and never had a problem. we do fracking right in michigan. we had the toughest rules, we enforce them, work with results and the rest of the country is looking at michigan as a role model. >> our final question. first, to you, governor. betterhigan residents off than they were 40 years ago, and how will they be better off in the next four years if you're still governor? >> sure. nolan did this week, he had an editor's note, there taken through the ofer where more than half michiganders were feeling better. time that happened was when 9/11 happened, we over a deck a. seeing a bright future in michigan again and we need to keep that up. term my priorities are more and better johns with a

skill trades, the tech. effective,eing more starting with preschool, doing techenrollment, career education again. and finally good government. we run our government right now, we're financially responsible. we're paying our long-term debts. i can tell you if you want a job in michigan, run for governor in 2038. that's when we've got a payment we don place, because 50-year forecasts to make sure we're not dropping problems on we inherited. we're taking care of those issues so we'll have a bright not just for us, but for our kids, our kids' kids and building a foundation for come.s to let's not go back to the lost decade. let's not let professional again.s mess up michigan it's time for us to work together. look at what we're doing with many other great things. the progress is happening, let's

keep going. minute and an, a half. >> thank you very much. i spend my entire life fighting for an economy that works for regular peep. backe legislature i fought against outsourcing, in congress i helped rescue the auto industry to create good jobs and strengthen american standards. now, i'm running for governor because i believe that we an economyn build that works for everyone, not just the wealthy. snyder's economy may work for you, if you're wealthy or a big corporation or one of employees that got an 80 or 90% pay raise. but if you're a student, teacher, parent or grand parent it's not working for you and fore policies would be work you. i outlined a detailed jobs plan. first three things. one, restore the cuts to our schools. and i will make public education one budget priority. second, cut taxes for the middle

will end the snyder job killing pension tax. smallird, i'll help business e and entrepreneurs here and provide tools, tax for companies to create good jobs here in michigan. when they eliminate jobs or send them overseas i'll make repay eve and every penny. i'm here to tell you this evening that as governor i will and every morning for everyone, not just the wealthy. ofgentlemen, that was a lot fun, thank you both. time. are out of >> that are is going to do it hall.r gubernatorial town our audience right here at wayne state and to you at home for watching. detroit publict television, i'm christy mcdonald.

have a great night. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national able satellite corp. 2014] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> in arkansas, incumbent senator mark pryor will face challenger tom cotton.

on c-span 2, mary land rue will face her two republican challengers. under louisiana's election simple if a single candidate fails to get more than 50% of the vote there will be a december runoff. in colorado senator mark you'dal is facing challenger congressman cory gardner in a tight race. the denver post which hosted this debate last week officially endorsed congressman gardner, a republican. [applause]

>> good evening, and welcome to the denver post. we're really glad that you guys came out tonight to see the last of our denver post debate series. tonight we are lucky enough to feature the senate race with senator mark you'dal and rep cory gardner. i'm the politics editor here, and with me is lin bartles, the eporter covering the race. [applause] and one of the most well known reporters in colorado if not the rocky mountain west. thanks for coming. we have a couple of quick little pieces of business to conduct. please withhold tonight overt

reactions or displays until we've conclusions our debate. i understand if someone says a funny line you can't help but chuckle a little bit but let's hold the applause until jampeds. if we have any heckling we'll ask the persons to leave. we'll have four different kinds of questions tonight. we'll have questions that are specific to the candidate. those questions are themed so the other candidate will not have a rebuttal. then we have traditional candidate questions for both, we'll have a yes or no type round with yes or no type answers, and we'll have a round where candidates get to ask questions of each other. we'll forego opening statements. these men are both well known. if you wish to know more about them, this sunday is a lengthy profile file in the denver post. hank you again for coming.

>> i have to make sure my wiretapping equipment is working here. thanks for being here. much of this campaign has centered on women's health issues. from abortion to birth control. we have separate questions for both of you on that issue. mr. gardner, you've been accused of waging an eight-year battle to outlaw birth control. please explain where you stand on birth control, including your positions on the iud and the morning after pill. >> i'm sorry, the what was the last part? i couldn't understand. >> on the iud and the morning after pill. >> thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. it's simply outrageous that somebody would try to ban birth control. that's simply outrageous. in fact, the first time my wife and i saw a television ad that said we wanted to ban birth

control my wife smiled and said, didn't you used to pick up my prescription? the fact is i support over-the-counter contraception made available without a prescription. we should change obamacare to make sure that insurance should reimburse for that purchase. when it comes to the other issues that you have mentioned those are legal and nothing is oing to change that. >> we know that you support a woman's right to choose. but given the advances and the scientific understanding of eetle development where week we know finger nails grow, would you support late-term abortions? >> i look forward to what i know will be a robust and spirited discussion tonight. congressman gardner has built his political career on working to ban abortion and common

forms of contraception. and this question is in effect a diversion from the real differences between us in this campaign. colorado voters have weighed in over and over again on where they stand and where we stand and where colorado voters stand is trusting a woman to make the decisions that are best for her and her family. and frankly politicians and judges and businessmen and women ought to butt out and trust the women of colorado. there are situations where there are late-term abortions are found to be necessary. i've heard the story of a couple who waited for many years to have a child. they found tranlically that that child's brain was growing outside of the skull of that fetus, to demand that woman carry that child to term would be a form of government intervention that none of us want to see happen. and we ought to respect the women of colorado and their point of view. >> we also have separate questions for both of you regarding the affordable care act.

in your first senate debate in 2008, when you were asked about health care reform you said i'm not for government-run solution. you voted for the affordable care act which has expanded government's medicaid coverage for millions of low-income americans. how is this not a government-run solution? >> we did just what i suggested we should do, which is we put people in charge of their health insurance. that's what the affordable care act does. the insurance companies were running our system. we had a broken system. if you were a woman you were charged more. if you had someone in your family who had a preexisting condition, good luck getting the coverage you needed. if someone got sick, your rates could be jacked up or you could be dropped. the system was flat-out broke. we put people back in charge of their insurance coverage. this is again one of the many differences in this campaign between congressman gardner and me. he believes that we ought to go back to the failed system.

and he's demonstrated that by voting over 50 times to repeal the affordable care act. my approach has been to move us forward. the affordable care act as we know is far from perfect. the rollout had a lot that was lacking. but we're moving forward in the state of colorado and we've seen 400,000 coloradoance in various ways have quality health insurance that didn't have that health insurance a year ago. that's real progress. the colorado way is to work together and insure that more can have coverage not repeal and go backwards. that's what congressman gardner would do. >> you were one who received a notice that your health care plan had been canceled. and while you've been quick to wave the letter around and criticize the obamacare you redacted the portion about the specific plan your family was using. . >> my wife and i chose not to go into the health care plan because we didn't believe it was fair that the senator created a separate bill for

members of congress so we opted out of the congressional health care plan and chose our own private health care solution and we were one of 340,000 people who the senator broke his promise to, the promise that if he we liked our health care plan we could keep it. we chose a plan that we could afford. a plan that best our needs as did 340,000 other coloradoens. the senator promised they could keep their health care plan if they liked it. he didn't say, if i liked your plan you can keep it but that's exactly what happened. we should repeal obamacare and create in its someplace solutions that will actually work to lower the cost of health care, to increase the quality of care. what we ought to do is make sure that we put solutions where people with preexisting conditions can be covered. but instead what we got was broken promise after broken promise. that is not the colorado way. >> mr. gardner could we take just a few more seconds and we wanted to try to get a specific answer to the question. why did you redact a portion of

the specific plan your family was using? >> because we found a solution as insurance policy that we liked. that our family liked. the same kind of solution that 340,000 others found. 340,000 found a health insurance policy that they liked. what senator you'dal promised was that if you liked your health care plan you could keep it. and what he wants to do is to say this. he wants to say that, well, your policy -- >> i'm if you would like to answer the specific question we have a few more times -- a little more time. >> i'm happy to debate the failure of obamacare this entire hour. let's do it. >> no. we've got these questions we want to ask. if i might, i would like to get a word in here. >> am i allowed to rebuttal? >> you reputted him. we tried to get you to answer a specific question. >> wait a second. let's get control of the situation here. every now and then i will will

look at each other and confer to ask a followup question if we didn't think a question was answered. that's our prerogative. sometimes if a candidate doesn't answer a question that also tells you something about a candidate the voters can know. but right now we'll going to move on. >> i want to address what you just said. >> that would apply to any candidate that doesn't specifically answer a question. go ahead. let's stick with the affordable care act for another round. so we will engage you a bit longer. thanks to the affordable care act more than 20 o 0,000 were able to get health insurance through medicaid. if congress appeals the law as you supported in the past what would you do with these residents would lose coverage? >> to make changes it did not take a 270 o page partisan bill that was passed when the obamacare action went through. as the senator just answer it had question, in colorado we

work together. but yet when he passed obamacare, he did it on the most partisan of terms. not a single republican vote for obamacare. look, i believe we have to do something instead of going back to what we had in place before the affordable care act. to address people with needs including those people on medicaid to make sure that we provide insurance for people with preexisting conditions, to make sure that we address the issues of tort reform, to make sure we have health insurance savings accounts. but three promises were made. the first promise made was if you liked your health care plan you could keep it. senator yudyal broke his word. if you liked your doctor you could keep your doctor. he broke his word. the third promise, if this will lower the cost of health care. he broke his word. in fact, at a debate just yesterday he said it will still increase. >> we're out of time. >> thousands of coloradoens have either had their health

care plans canceled or their rates increased because of the requirements of the affordable care act. what changes to the law would you make to mitigate this problem? >> i've got to note that congressman gardner has shown that he has the capability to filibuster. we don't need any more sn senators who want to filibuster. we need to move the country forward. >> i'm sorry. let's withhold applause until after the -- >> there was nobody more angry than me when the insurance companies broke faith with the intent of the law. the intent was if you liked your plan you could keep your plan. when i realized that, i went to work immediately. i offered legislation to keep the plan. i was on the white house to provide those powers and i worked with the governor and the division of insurance. as you know, congressman gardner is misstating what happened. there were about 3450,000 letters that went out but most included an option to renew

your policy and that's what happened. but the point is that we want to work together because you heard congressman gardner say he's going to repeal obamacare. that leaves us at the merry of the insurance companies just like we were at the mercy of the insurance companies for all the decades. >> we're out of time. >> now we have the same question for both of you. much has been made of women and economic issues from minimum wage to lily led better to salary for your congressional staff. why do you believe your record is better than your opponents? >> clearly my record is better than my opponents. all you have to do is look at our votes and bills we sponsored. i start with the personhood movement and amendment that congressman gardner has long sponsored. when you look at it it would ban all abortions and limit access to most forms of contraception. we've had that on the ballot here twice, over 70% rejected it.

we have it on the ballot again this year. congressman gardner is out of the mainstream and his support. we have a real opportunity to ensure that women receive the same pay for doing equal work. that legislation has been in front of the the house of representatives. congressman gardner has voted twice. even went to the point of he voted against a measure that would provide more flexibility in the workplace for nursing mothers. he doesn't support the minimum wage. that would raise women's prospects here in colorado since two thirds of minimum wage workers in this state are women. congressman gardner has a long way to go to meet the needs of women in our state. >> the senator talks about going forward. unfortunately he's put this economy in reverse and nobody has suffered more than women because of his failed policies. women were promised they could keep health care plans that they liked. 340,000 families had their health care plans canceled.

women were promised that they could keep the doctor they liked. thousands of people had their doctors out of network thanks to his broken promise. this economy has hurt women across the nation. the labor participation rate is at its lowest in 36 years. in fact if you look at the most recent numbers more women are out of the workforce than the previous reporting period because under their failed economy, the jobs aren't available. and so i have a plan, a four-corners plan to get this country back to work focused on growing our economy, focused on energy independence, focused on education opportunities, focused on protecting our environment. but what it is not focused on is voting 99% of the time as barack obama as the senator has this past congress. >> facts matter. we have the strongest economy in the nation right now.

we have 400,000 more people that are covered with quality health care because insurance because of the affordable care act. congressman gardner talks about the four corners plan. the only thing i can see him doing is cutting corners. he has voted against raising the minimum wage. education he hasn't supported an increase in pell grants so we can afford college for our young people. on energy he touted a bill that supposedly was leading the green energy revolution and the agency didn't finance a single project and went out of business a few years later. on the environment, he denies climate change is occurring. that's cutting corners to me. >> i've if i get a rebuttal on that? > that was the rebuttal. >> i have a 30 second rebuttal? >> no, sir. so folks in the audience, the situation please we want a professional environment. think of the presidential debates where we want the

viewers who may or may not have a position who are trying to gauge the credibility of the candidates so that they can help make that decision. partisan cheering or booing or whatever interferes with that. it just does. so i know that you feel strongly about your candidate and that's understandable and great. but please let's have a professional debate environment for these folks. once it's all over we can shift back to campaign mode. >> i want to make something clear, too. if you were asked a question first you get to do a rebuttal. you get the extra 30 seconds this time. >> gentlemen, give us your plan to address the islamic state crisis and describe the circumstances in which you would support american boots on the ground in syria and iraq. and we begin with mr. gardner. >> thank you. look, our foreign policy is in the situation it is today because of the failure of leadership at the white house and the president has said that

his policies are going to be on the ballot this november and mark you'dal has voted for those 99% of the time. the president has said we have no strategy. the president said they are junior varsity actors. the president said we will lead from behind. and that his plan too because he agrees with him 99% of the time. we must make sure that we protect the safety and security of american families. that's why i have supported efforts to make sure that we take out the terrorists. but senator believes that the islamic state is not a threat to our nation, that they are not plotting against our country. pem people arrested at our airport for conspiring with the islamic state. in chicago for conspiring with the islamic state. and the senator doesn't even show up at the armed services hearing when they talk about emerging threats. >> the same question. >> i just want to remind congressman gardner that he is

running against me not barack obama not my father not harry reid. it's congressman gardner and myself on the ballot this fall. look, congressman, you know or you should know, frankly, that isil is a serious and immediate threat. i serve on the armed services committee. i chair the strategic forces committee i serve on the intelligence committee. we're going to wipe them out. we're going to do it through a strategy that you supported. you voted for it a few weeks ago in the house of representatives. we're going to be there but call on our partners to step up and finally stop playing both roles that is arsonist and fireman at the same time. let me talk with you a little bit about the committee. i serve on that committee as i told you and i get briefings on an ongoing basis of what's appening in the world. you want to parse words?

i want to protect america. >> criticizing senator you're uning a tv commercial i think you're politicizing in your tv commercial. the fact is the president said that his policies are going to e on the ballot. when i-vote as many times as you have with the the president you are tied hook line and sinker to the president who admitted the two of you are together on the ballot. listen to his words. the islamic state is not an imminent threat to our nation. that's what he said and he won't even show up at the emerging threats hearings. >> congress' apprufle is hovering in the low teens and gridlock is rampant. which member of the u.s. senate is most responsible for that environment? >> i think what's responsible for the environment is the

country is divided. there are very different points of view represented in the congress and we reflect that. i also think we're called upon to be leaders to rise above that. and i know when coloradoens look at my record they see that i've done that in a whole host of ways. they also can see that congressman gardner talks about this number 99%, he's been 99% with the republican leadership in the house. if you want to talk numbers, his extreme record on everything from women's reproductive health to supporting minimum wage workers to climate change 100% know he's in the wrong place when it comes to his record. what we've got to do is work together. and i have a record of doing that can senator mccrane on the line imet veto and the recreation act which is going to create more tunalts in our mountain communities. my record of working crools the aisle is one that i'm proud of and one i'll continue if the people of colorado send me back to a second term.

>> harry reid has single handedly made the senate the most dysfunctional place on earth. what we must do is replace harry reid. senator you'dal will vote for harry reid once again to be be leader of the united states senate. there have been over 340 pieces of legislation that have passed the house of representatives. many with bipartisan support. jobs legislation. legislation to create energy opportunities. legislation to put people back to work, including women who have been deprived of the opportunity to earn good-paying jobs because of your failed economy. harry reid is refusing to bring those bills up. so the fact that we have dysfunction in washington is because we have a senator who changed the rules broke the rules to change the rules. senator you'dal you broke the rules of the united states senate to change the rules to stifle debate. that was harry reid's idea and you followed just like you follow the president of the united states 99% of the time. >> let's look at the record

here in colorado of accomplishment that we've all shared in. and i've been proud to lead the effort to ensure that we have $770 million in flood recovery here. i wasn't helped by the way by congressman gardner's shurpt of the shutdown a year ago. we worked together to ensure that we have the state-of-the-art firefighting capability in this state. we've led in the best of the above energy approach. there's a lot that we've done here in colorado that we're going to continue to do because we're rugged collaborators. we know that our futures are linked together. and i'm going to take that spirit back to washington, d.c. like i have all these last six years. >> speaking of the shutdown, it came at the same time that colorado was trying to cope with historic flooding. mr. gardner, you claimed you never took a vote to shut down the government but you took at least three votes that led to the shutdown. mr. you'dal, your comments about mr. gardner left the impression that the congress

was indifferent to flooding victims. what's the real story here? >> the flood was a tragic occurrence where people lost lives, thousands of homes were damaged or destroyed. but i was proud of the work that senator you'dal and i did together. we worked together to provide flood relief for the people of colorado. i sat in your office to work on the legislation that you are bragging about. we worked together to find solutions tor people in need. the vice president of the united states was in colorado and said even if there was a shutdown flood relief would not be impacted. i don't know if senator asked the vice president or not but the fact is we worked together to provide solutions for colorado. now, we've heard a lot of talk about somebody who says we need rugged collaboration and cooperation. and we did that during the floods to provide much-needed relief. and i am saddened that the

senator has decided it is ok in fact it is his political determination to politicize a tragedy that does not deserve to be used as a campaign fodder. >> congressman, with all due respect you politicized the situation. we rode in a helicopter. we were unified. we got off the helicopter and we headed back to washington, d.c. with a focus on providing relief and support to the people of colorado. i don't know what happened on that plane ride but when you got off that plane in washington, d.c. you took a whole different approach. i don't know whether it was the tea party or your ideology or what took hold but you voted to shut down the government. the facts are clear. and the effects were real. you delay it had recovery. talk to the 128 national guardspeople who were put on hold. talk to the national guard units around the country ready to come to colorado to provide the support they do so well. go to the park and talk to the business community there at a

minimum $500,000 in lost activity because the national park closed. millions of dollars of lost activity around the state because of the government shutdown. it was irresponsible, it was reckless. and if you represent with the state of colorado you stand with the state of colorado. you don't turn your back. it's that simple. don't tor can, you politicize tragedy. you don't turn around to the people of colorado after we worked together and try to create campaign and political opportunities. from people who suffered. we worked together. we stood side by side. we stood together in the mountains to talk about the roadwork that we had been able to accomplish together. we stood side by side in briefings with fema directors talking about how we were going to work together. what's irresponsible -- that's time. >> is the fact that you would politicize tragedy for your own political gain. >> gentlemen, do you think president obama has the

authority to take action on the issue of illegal immigration? if so what should he do with that power and if not what is the risk of having obama act? >> we have a failed immigration system. -- i'm sorry. the question is intended to begin with mr. gardner. >> i gave the rebuttal so it might be his. >> we have it written wrong on the script. >> they were already working together. >> and what a beautiful thing. senator. >> i think your question was about immigration reform what authority the president has. >> does the president have authority? if so what should he do with the power? >> we have a broken system. the senate passed a bipartisan bill close to 70 votes. we sent it over to the house a year-and-a-half ago and nothing has happened. every business leader has called for comprehensive immigration reform.

many of the demuents want to see the right focus when it comes to enforcing our laws. and i do believe the president in the absence of action in the house of representatives should consider all of his options. we're splitting up too many families. we ought to be focused on criminals and people who are public safety risks. i've called on congressman gardner to afpblgt he said we ought to take immigration reform in steps. he hasn't taken one step to move immigration reform to the finish line. if we want to secure our borders in the context of this very dangerous world we're with in we ought to have comprehensive immigration reform. ought to pass if we want to keep families together. this is one of the most important steps we could take and he's been missing in action. >> the same question. >> i strongly support immigration reform and testified over a year-and-a-half ago before the house judiciary committee about the need for immigration reform. but we are in this mess today because of failed leadership. failed leadership from the white house, failed leadership

from the senator. look at the southern border this year. we're in this situation because the president has failed to act in coordination with the congress. the house the senate and the white house on solutions that we can actually agree to. the president himself said he lacks the legal authority to issue an executive order. that's what the president himself has said. over a year ago he said he lacks the authority. let's work together on immigration solutions. now the senator said he wants to focus on criminals when it comes to immigration. when senator you'dal several years ago voted to make undocumented individuals felons in this country, i wonder if he is still focusing on believing that they are criminal felons. and i would like to know whether or not the senator believes that they are still felons in his mind according to his vote. when he had a chance to vote, he chose carbon taxes instead. >> the senator has a chance to rebut. >> you talk about failed leadership. you're an example of failed leadership. we sent a broadly supported

bill over to the house of representatives again i'm calling on you to exert some leadership when we go back let's open it up before the house. if you had a vote it would pass with over 250 votes. i've acted. you haven't. the president wants to act and he is considering all of his options. but let's talk about today and moving the country forward. america's a land of immigrants. our diversity is a strength of americans. >> we're back to questions specific to the candidates and we begin with the senator. you started out the year giving a vague answer about whether you plan to campaign with the president. now you have been mocked for saying the last person the white house wants to see walking up the line is you. what is your opinion of the job president barack obama has done?

what i was saying is i have a colorado compass and that's how i serve. when iie i gry i stand with the president. as i did with george bush when he believed in going into afghanistan and getting the taliban and bin laden. when president obama presents a strategy to go after isil i stapped with president obama. when president obama is spying on americans and the c.i.a. overreaches and spies on the senate i made my point of view very, very clear. when president bush wanted to go into iraq i made it very clear that i thought we should finish the job in afghanistan. but when both presidents supported comprehensive immigration reform i supported those presidents. so when the president is on the right track and it fits where where coloradoens are i'm going to support the president. when the president is object wrong track i will speak out as i have. >> please explain the policy difference between the federal life at conception act that you are cosponsoring and the state personhood ballot measures that

you now say you are wrong to support because they ban certain forms of birth control. >> i do not support the personhood amendment. i have said that. the senator has said a good faith change of position should be considered a virtue and not a vice. the federal act you are referring to is a statement that i support life. senator you'dal said that he has a colorado compass but try getting g.p.s. because yours is leading the state down the wrong path. >> we're going back to mr. gardner with a specific question. >> i was ready to answer. >> mr. gardner, monday was an historic moment for the gay rights movement. much has been made on being on the right side of history when it comes to gay rights. younger republicans have been advocating for equality in marriage. do you think it's time for you to change your position? >> i have supported traditional marriage but i also believe that people must be treated

with dignity and respect. that's why i will abide by the decision of the courts. but i think this is an important issue that we don't try to use for divisive political points but instead talk about how we can provide that dignity and respect and make sure that we are focusing on issues that i hear around the state as well. issues of the economy, making sure that people have opportunities to build stronger families and again i believe that those are things that we can do together instead of trying to politicize on issues that some may see as division. your campaign has been so focused on women's issues you've been dubbed mark uterus. a neutral political observor said any the image of you as a bipartisan walk across the aisle guy has been significantly diminished and the colorado junior senate michael bent is actually the centrist. have you gone too far? >> reproductive rights are

important to millions of coloradoance. colorado is the second state to grant the franchise to women. if congressman gardner hasn't built his entire career on limiting reproductive choices we wouldn't be having this discussion today. we've waged this on a lot of other issues. isis, immigration reform, hopefully we'll talk about energy which is a particular passion of mine. we also want to make sure the economy is working for everybody. if you look at the traffic in my campaign over half of our ads have discussed those kinds of topics. but he doesn't want to have this discussion because his record is extreme. and you don't have to look any further than the person amendment which would ban all forms of abortions and most forms of contraception. he's also cast a series of other very anti-women votes. he voted against making emergency contraception available. he wanted to change the definition of rape so the victims would have a harder

time prosecuting perpetrators in court. congressman gardner has a long record of wanting to limit women's reproductive rites. >> gentlemen we're moving to yes or no questions. at the end of each round you t 60 seconds to expand on an answer should you wish to take it. mr. gardner. do you believe humans are contributing significantly to climate change? >> i've said all along -- >> yes or no. >> this is an important issue. >> you've got 06 seconds. >> i believe the climate is changing. i disagree to the -- of the yes/no questions you will each be given a minute to respond to any of these questions that you would like to. >> look, i think we ought to be able to provide an answer. this is a serious debate. we're both running for the united states senate. this is a serious issue and i don't think we should change answers --

>> that was 60 seconds. >> these are meant to be answered yes or no because they should come from a core belief that you would hold. we'll move to the senator. do you believe that humans are contributing significantly to climate change? >> yes. >> did you support colorado's ban on same sex marriage? >> this was a ballot initiative a number of years ago? >> yes. >> no. >> mr. gardner? >> yes. >> mr. gardner do you support the death pement? >> yes. >> no. >> did you support the ballot measure that legalize pot in colorado? >> no. >> mr. gardner? >> no. >> mr. gardner do you support federal action to provide clear rules for legal marijuana businesses to gain access to bank sng >> yes. >> mr. you'dal? >> yes. >> should the taxpayers bill of rights be changed or altered? >> no. talking about tabor?

>> tabor. >> so that's a no answer? >> that should not be changed. >> mr. gardner? >> no. >> mr. gardner do you support casino style gambling in counties as proposed by amendment 668? >> no. >> mr. you'dle? >> no. >> do you support the construction of the keystone pipeline? >> if the science is completed -- >> yes or no. >> mr. gardner got his way he can have a few sirkeds here. >> if the science is completed, yes. >> mr. gardnr. >> the science is completed. yes. how about 30 seconds to respond. >> again these are very important issues and they're very important issues that many cannot be described simply as yes or no. that's why it's important when it comes to things like our environment that we talk about how yes the sclimet is changing i've said that all along but i disagree to the extend that man is causing it and i refuse to

destroy the economy in order to pursue radical ideas like tom stire are in favor of. but i find it curious that senator supports tabor when he lake-effect has supported tax increase after tax increase at the state level. >> mr. you'dle. >> what's radical is congressman gardner's continuing denial that climate change is occurring. we have prei am nintskinaltses in this state. we're seeing the effects in our farm economy and ski industry. the good news is we're situated to lead the country in the world. we've prepared for this moment. we have a best of the above energy approach. we can meet this challenge. we're going to innovate, have new jobs. we're going to enhance our environment and we're going to have great geopolitical flexibility because we're too dependent right now on oil supplies around the world. it's again a contrast between congressman gardner and me and you see it here today. >> we have questions for both of you or for each of you.

gentlemen, this month's job report exceeded expectations with 240e,000 new jobs bringing the national unemployment rate down to 5.%. that's the latest in a string of months that showed good job growth. another study shows that the median household income in colorado dropped from 2007-2013. what needs to happen at the federal level to regain momentum for the middle class and lower income families? >> i mentioned some of the policy initiatives we ought to pursue. we ought to raise the minimum wage. the last president that signed a minimum wage increase george w. bush. we ought to pass the paycheck fairness act. how ookt making college more affordable? i've joined forces with a number of senators including elizabeth warren so that students and families could refinance students loans which are sometimes a big burden on those families and students. we ought to provide incentives

for companies to keep jobs here not ship them overseas. why do i bring this up? because congressman gardner has a different point of view on all those issues. we need to expand our job training opportunities. and ensure that those of us who are going into the market for new employment have those kind of job training skills that the skills that come from that kind of job training as well as our younger americans who need to have skills sets that are unique to the 21st century. i do believe that if we don't respond we run the risk of the middle class not being a strong part of our society that's always been. >> the same question. >> it is beyond time that we get government out of the way and let america work. we must unleash the entrepreneurial spirit of this country. we live in a nation where big businesses started in small garages. mark's policies voting with the president 99% of the time have set this country back. as a result of his failed policies we now have coloradoens who are earning 4,000 less in median household

income over the past several years. the labor participation rate is the lowest it's been in 36 years. that's what's happening under the failed leadership of mark you'dal. look, we can expand the earned income tax credit legislation that i've supported. that lifted millions of people out of poverty. we ought to make sure that we are putting in place and moving forward on the keystone pipeline. that would provide more than minimum wage opportunities. giving people 20 and $30 an hour work that senator you'dal has voted against four times. we need more colorado in washington and less washington in colorado. unfortunately our economy is stuck in reverse and it's the middle class who are feeling the burden of these failed policies. >> again, congressman, i'm never downbeat on colorado and your announcement speech you said the future was fading in colorado. we've been through a lot of challenges. we've shown our metal. you don't talk down to colorado. because this is the most

wonderful state in the nation with the most wonderful people living here. i'll tell you one other thing that you're proposing that wouldn't help our economy and that's to gut social security and privatize medicare. those are votes you've cast on a number of -- >> i will protect -- >> radical republican budgets in the house. >> the u.s. national debt is approaching $18 trillion. can we get a handle on our debt and reduce the annual deficit without raising taxes? and what significant spending cuts would you support to balance the budget? mr. gardner. >> we can start addressing the issue of our national debt by repealing obamacare which adds billions hundreds of billions of dollars in debt to our economy. we must put in place a balanced budget agreement. senator you'dle has supported but has exempted large portions of spending from it. we also have to pass legislation that i introduced on a bipartisan measure that would eliminate duplicative programs allowing people to

save billions of dollars through the duplication of waste and inefficiencies in government. i will make sure that we live wp our means within the united states congress. we are spending money that future generations simply cannot handle. it will break our economy. national security advisers to the president have said that our national debt is one of the gravest threats our country faces. let's look at what the senator's record has meant. when he was elected to congress, our national debt was $5 trillion. after voting consistently with these in washington, d.c. against coloradoens, debt is now over $17 trillion. we simply can't afford it and future generations deserve better. >> mr. you'dle, the same question for you. >> the same question. you heard congressman gardner say again he would repeal the affordable care act. that would take us backwards. let's put the insurance in char. that would be a great day. he has voted to turn medicare into a voucher program. that would put insurance companies in charge of our

seniors' health care. that would be another bad day for our seniors. i have long been a leader on budgetary matters in the senate and previous to that in the house. coloradoens are fiscal hawks. they want to see the return on their taxpayer dollars but they're willing to invest. but i've supported simpson-bowles and i've asked congressman gardner to join us. reforming the tax code, let's lower corporate tax rates, strip out some of the subsidies and incentive that is are well-intended but don't drive economic growth. i did author a balanced budget amendment and the exemptions that congressman gardner talks about are for social security and medicare. we ought to make sure we keep those programs in place. >> do you want your 30 seconds? >> we should keep the medicare in place just yesterday he admitted that he voted to cut $800 billion from medicare advantage.

that's what senator you'dal admitted to yesterday at the debate. i believe that we should protect and preserve our social safety net including medicare and social security. the senator's plan is blueprintsy for those programs because he has no plan. i believe we can grow our economy, that we can pass a balanced budget amendment, that we can repeal and replace obamacare with solution that is can work and we can end this debt that poses a significant threat to this country. >> so we've got another entitlement question. gentlemen, which of the entitlement programs would you look at first to reform or make cuts? do you support raising the retirement age to receive social security benefits, military base closures? please elaborate. >> let me just clarify yesterday we had a robustday bait at the chamber. the point i was making about medicare is congressman gardner voted to cust $800 billion out of medicare advantage that was then directed to tax cuts for millionaires. what i had done was redirect the moneys in medicare out of

medicare advantage because insurance companies >> reeping a nice little profit. they weren't providing any more services. to extend the solvency and life of medicare. there's a real difference here in the ways in which we approached supporting medicare. i support the simpson-bowles plan which i just mentioned earlier. it lays out a road mavepmap to can ways in which we can invest in our future. infrastructure we ought to have the best, make sure our chirp have access to affordable education and have the kind of research and development we're doing out of the energy laboratory. that's a blueprint simpson-bowles plan to get at some of the broader questions and the goal you laid out. >> the same question. >> i think you just heard senator admit that if you're on medicare advantage you're having your benefits cut. he voted in the affordable care act to cut medicare advantage by $700 billion. i believe we must protect and

preserve our social safety net benefits for all generations. that's why i've supported efforts to make sure we not only uphold and preserve that promise but to strengthen medicare. what happens in a few short years is bankruptcy if we don't do anything. what happens to social security if the u.s. government continues to borrow against it is insolvency. the federal government must stop borrowing against social security. we must protect medicare by preserving it for future generations. what senator use ol has done is thousands of coloradoens around this state will have their benefits cut. >> congressman, that takes real gumption to stand up here and accuse me. when you actually voted to send money into tax cuts. and this is to meet costs. we have extended the life of medicare for some six

years. you cannot go around and say our votes do not matter. >> colorado has been home to the colorado movie theater shootings, which called for stricter gun laws. >> we watched columbine, and we watched what happened in aurora, and what has happened in the country. it is unacceptable the kind of violence that has occurred, and i think we should do everything we can to prevent those kinds of tragedies from occurring.

and that is why i have worked to make sure we have found mental health solutions, to find something he for it slips through the crack, to a dress the needs of those whose voices are being unheard because of he terrible tragedies that could occur if we do not reach out to those voices first. i am a staunch defender and believer in the second amendment. in colorado, we had for the first time two recalls of state legislators. the senator supports gun control is even more restrictive than the measures that led to the recalls of two tate senators. >> congressman, a -- i strongly support the amendment. my mother taught me how to handle a gun. she was a member of the nra. i wish i could apologize to her every day for having me as a teenager, but we ought to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and felons and

iners. it is a commonsense approach. i do agree with you, and i am excited that we are agreeing on something. we ought to do more in the world of mental health, and we should also do more research into run violence, because these mass shootings are beyond tragic. i will never forget the six and seven-year-olds at sandy hook that were mode down 1.5 years ago, two years ago. we can't forget what happened and there are some common things we can do. the colorado universal background check law, there are over 70 individuals who shouldn't have firearms. it is progress, and we are protecting people at the same time. >> mr. gardner? >> it was the comment when he said he supported the gun-control measure even more restrictive than the ones that passed in colorado that he

voted for because he felt it was worth giving it a shot. he's described the second amendment rights not as a constitutional right as a tradition. our constitution has a right in it. you have a c grade. you are not a supporter of the second amendment. >> gentlemen, mr. udall has een repeatedly hammered. with voting with president obama. mr. garner has been called kilo extreme. address the attacks against you -- kilo extreme. address the attacks against you. he continues to throw out the umber 99%. on the ballot will be our names. this race is between combhan gardner and me and our respective records.

congressman gardner continues to throw out the number 99%. i want to remind him that he is running against me in this election and he is trying to distract the voters of this state from his extreme record and we've explored that here today. he is out of touch with the mainstream of thought here in colorado and we've seen it around this campaign. the personhood amendment is a great example where he has supported it over and over again. and let me remind all of you of what it would do. it would ban all forms of abortion, and women of colorado have reproductive rights, and we ought to trust them to make ncisions, not politicians >> the president said his policies re, indeed, on the ballot. it is a person who has only

disagreed with the president 1% of the time, or for somebody who believes it is not extreme to propose a takeover of our health care system. it is not extreme to support better economic opportunity, that it is not extreme to support energy across this country to create jobs and opportunity. i believe we can do better in this country. i believe we can do better if we put colorado first instead of washington. first. after 16 years in washington senator udall has decided just run away from his own record because he can't defend obamacare. he can't defend his economic policies. what i support for people across this country is opportunity come -- opportunity, to make sure that we get government out of the way, to make sure we are reducing the tax burden on families, making college affordable with what i have introduced. >> mr. udall. >> he is running away from the ecord.

minimum wage, his votes to gut social security and turn medicare into a voucher program. his vote to deny a program that would track sexual predators. the congressman's record is extreme, and if you really look at it further this time, it would move us backwards, and we want to move colorado forward. >> now we come to the point of the debate where we ask questions. and we start with mr. udall. your first question? >> congressman, you have, as i just said, sent mixed messages to the people of colorado when it comes to women's reproductive rights. a law like the life at conception law would ban abortion and it would ban most common forms of contraception.

i'm just curious what would happen if that would become the law the land. because you clearly believe that this is something we ought to implement given your long record and initiative. >> that bill is a statement i support life. i believe we had to expand access for women's health including the opportunity to allow contraception to be sold over-the-counter without a prescription, the opportunity to make sure we change obamacare to allow it to be reimbursed by insurance. that's what i believe. >> congressman, let me follow up. were you to be in the senate, the life at conception act, would you sponsor it? this is an important question. this is a question the coloradans deserve an answer on and you have given a whole series of mixed answers with a series of interviews over the last number of weeks it and, frankly, it is very unclear where you stand.

you and i have enormous differences almost every policy matter and i respect that, but you owe coloradans a clear set of positions on these important issues that matter to coloradans, millions of coloradans who think this is very important and it speaks more loudly and more broadly about your respect for women, whether you keep your word, and what you really believe. >> well, thank you, and, again, the bill in the house is a statement i support life. i have not seen the bill in the senate, believe it or not. not everybody in the house reads bills in the senate that have just been introduced and have not been in committee, so i look forward to working with everyone across this country to address the concerns that you've rightfully stated. we need to work together on. >> mr. gardner, it shifts to your turn. your first question. >> senator udall, the islamic state is a growing threat to the region and to our country.

recently it has become the news, in the news, that you have not only missed every public airing -- hearing of the emerging threats subcommittee but your attendance at the senate armed services committee has only been 64% as the islamic state can use -- continues to present an imminent threat to our nation. where were you? and what was more important than our national security? >> congressman, as i said earlier i chair the strategic forces subcommittee which is crucial to colorado's military community. i sit on the armed services committee. i am briefed on an ongoing basis, also as a member of the intelligence committee on what's happening not only in the middle east but around the world. as i said earlier i've made all all of the votes on the armed services committee, and i take that as an important responsibility. but what you're doing here is again trying to distract people from your record and you're

forgetting that we're in this together. that isil isn't going to target us based on a political party or the region of country which we live. they will target us because we are americans. and i would ask you to stop politicizing this very, very series threat. politics ought to end at water's edge. i would remind everybody here, too, that a year ago when i was calling for airstrikes in syria, congressman gardner said what's happening in city isn't a threat for national security. i don't think you were paying attention back then so let's stop parsing words and let's start protecting america. >> your second question. >> senator udall, you have recently launched a television ad were you talk about your support for equal pay. i support equal hey, and yet in your office, you pay women 86 cents for every 1 dollar that you pay a man. why don't you live by example in your office? >> congressman, you know that

this is a strategy that you see writ large around the country, republican operatives everywhere have made his case to i'm reminded of what mark twain famously said about statistics many years ago. let me make it clear. i pay the women on my team the same for equal work. what you're doing is the is distracting coloradans from your record which is not pro-women. you voted against the paycheck fairness act as i mentioned earlier. you voted against raising the minimum wage. you do not think we ought to have broader access to pell grants. we have had as you know a robust conversation about respecting women's reproductive rights. it's clear that what you want to do it again is distract the voters in colorado from your record which is extreme, which is not in the mainstream. you have changed position in the number of ways, and, frankly, at best you promote the status quo which in today's world a last you to innovate and be creative, will take us ackward. my focus is on moving us forward.

>> by example. >> as i said we'd pay the women on my team the same for equal work. >> 86 cents for every 1 dollar you pay a man. >> ok, thank you, gentlemen. we are coming to the closing arguments portion of our mr. gardner chose to go first. you have the floor. >> i talk a lot about my hometown. a chunk ofe concrete. that was my grandfather's hardware store. it will be 100 years old tomorrow. my wife and i wonder if we will have the same type of opportunities that there great grat