but to continue to talk about adding jobs is part of a ripoff, and it sayas, make more money so the capitalists can take more money away from you. it doesn't say you get to keep that money. can takehe capitalists 50%, what is called surplus value. we need to completely convert to a socialist system of manufacturing, >> how do you improve wages in this state > i was so thrilled when the occupy movement happened. because i felt that finally majorne got it. that the banks are problematic and they are waging economic war against us. so, the answers come in how can create a monetary system so

the economy spouts up from the ound making sure we're contracting within states and aking off of tax items to have a vermont branding where our there are quality for craftman shift are high as that standards, things are made to last so we can circulate money because trickle economics don't work. we need to lateralize our need to leave our website up so you can tkpaoeupbd out more. thank you. >> it's not business friendly, afford to pay ot the wages. why.tudents to know the reason vermont is not business friendly is the federal state ent and the

government, the legislatures are passing laws saying that officials may make rules and regulations. federal government u.s. congress and state government, legislature in mount that r are passing laws are blank homework papers. hey're saying administrative officials who are not elected officials can make rules and regulations that businesses have comply with. the administrative officials get by lobbyists but that isn't reported because elected officials or candidates. >> mr. peters.

that's a bad investment from the investment you put into your they're the rate leaving to go somewhere else because other people are waiting waiting because we we're ant to do what supposed to. said, we rnor just have expensive healthcare and igh taxes and high cost of education all on your watch. what we need to do is start spending. if we start cutting spending we can start reducing taxes and give incentive to grow. need to o reduce -- we

ease some of the act 250 creates an which effect in which businesses can't grow. taxes preventing growth and we have act 250 which prevents companies from expanding in the local areas. hose things are dooming our economy right there. but if we focus in this on reducing ending and healthcare costs and predicting ore stable environment by easing some of the act 50 legislation it's going to create growtive for businesses to and more opportunities for you. salary sure if it's a issue or it's more -- i think it's more of a spending issue. cutting our costs which i'm promising to do we'll growing economy again. >> we'd like to bring some of some mail questions that of our viewers have submitted this evening as well and there's

an interesting one about climate change and it goes like this. cientists have warned that carbon emissions from burning fossil fuels are causing climate keep more unless we than the known carbon reserves surpass ound we'll internationally agreed upon two rature rise limits of degrees celsius. do you support the pension funds fossil fuel companies? > i don't think we can move fast enough on climate change. governor who has now managed hree induced storms including irene in a very short period of time we've got to move quickly. that we y i'm so proud have built out renewables in this state incredibly quickly. panels upled the solar and harnessing the wind. in terms of that.

tool that e sharpest we have in the drawer. i'm willing to look at it. i think we should look at that we possibly can to move forward on climate and as governor i'll continue to be a leader in this area. but no divestment is that right? >> my view it's not the sharpest i'm willing se but to look at it. as you know it's question.ple we have a fiduciary responsibility to ensure we're getting a return on our plans.ment and pension there are a the love reasons why it's not a simple as it looks it.i'm willing to look at > one good reason to have fossil fuels in our portfolio is to hedge against a bet we're on rushing towards this enewable energy program that's leading to industrial high across n wind turbines vermont and all kinds of other things.

i think a job of governors is to choices. y choice coming into the next millennium no need to look by diverting in those kinds of stocks. worry about.any to >> we need to do everything to ensure that our accounts are generating revenue. we have retirement stems are $3 billion out of balance. can't afford to continue to ivert from these fossil fuels that are fielding high returns and further increase that rate. i do not support of that the. we spend an incredible amount of money. $600 million in subsidies for renewable energy and those only producing 2% of the most of the energy sources. spending money on all his renew stuff that's not

generating anything for us. the ed to somehow pay back retirement funds that are $3 billion in debt. i don't think that dan's umbers are correct about subsidi subsidies. i've been educating about hemp and about the building that we can use that use a quarter of the fuel it's such a hopeful way of dealing with climate change we've been sending our young people to war for oil. technology to get off of oil. e've got enough hydro in vermont if we claimed the hydro n the river to give us enough power. in our household my partner just put in air to air heat exchangeers. we need to get off oil and look roadways like solar

and make our earth a priority ecause our relationship with earth is how we're going to thrive in the future and i know it.an do funds?ert state pension >> i think we should divest all thetal investments and open state bank so that all investments of pension funds are now nderstand we in -- o a billion behind what? >> great. >> that we can use that mob 90 investment in vermont. e do not need to invest in big corporations in order to make money. we understood to invest in vermont. thing is capitalism not only rips off workers but it rips off the planet. all aware of fracking cut ther mount tops being away and so forth. those things are destroying our

place where we live. we mess in our own home. and that has to stop now. fromhat means getting away competition which is very wasteful. there's always a loser. a bankruptcy. >> thanks, very much. peters. >> repeat the question, please. >> do you think the state should ivest its investments, its retirement investments in oil and gas companies? >> no, i don't think so. i think a hro of the investors are people like the rest of us, get some money or retirement and something to live on. change, wehe climate lost a mountain top where i live so we could have green energy. then they take the energy do? ts and what do they they sell them to somebody who pollutes. everybody made money but the rate payer didn't.

go.o is the way to it's renewable and cheapest in anything they have. about climatetalk change they make it sound like the average person is to blame of big corporations are doing a lot of damage. flowing he air that's every year. look at our military. uses ow much the military in fossil fuels. his is a lot of climate change right there. >> on various pension funds have een in the news in the past couple of years particularly with cities for fraud. so if i'm elected governor first and foremost i would do a forensic examination of the pension fund to find out if this is any proud going on so common and just happens and it's been in the ews and something you can't ignore. so that's number one. change if on climate you have 35 starter jets based in vermont.

they're flying they give 0 aluminum articles of and that will effect the climate. >> thank you. et's bring in another one of our students beatrice. you have a question about the problem? >> do you think the existing measures to combat the drug such as increasing funding for treatment doing enough. propose?hat would you >> let's begin with you. > i think it's very important that we look at our harmaceutical and our prescription practices. i think we are over prescribing opiates. we have 95% of the open yacht prescription ractices but only 25% of the population. e can reduce and we should reduce how many opiates our octors are prescribing and replacing them with other methods around the world

including marijuana for pain receptors. i know many, many people who on heroin hooked through objection couldn't continue that has been prescribed. we need to reign back our practices and look and diation on marijuana all these different methods of pain for starters. turn? is my turn or your >> are you done? >> i'm done. peters, how do you feel

about the approach about opiateopiates. something wrong you can be held libel for your being. well >> you have drug dealers dealing with drugs at young kids. ruin them at 13 they'll never be productive citizen. drugs for very long it won't be lock before they their shoes. we got to have some judges and district attorneys. we give you 30 days. you got to talk about years and you got to make it that scared to come here that will end part of the problem right there. mr. donaldson, are we doing enough? >> no and i tend to along with emily said. while it's in the right

correct direction it's not enough. socialist libertarian view of this. say, allocialist side i drugs whether they be contraband or whether it be heroin or -- and notice this was no heroin in the united states taliban were in control in afghanistan. f you use your head tells you how it gets in through this ountry through the united states government. what we need to do is make it a in privateusly to be enterprise in the drug institution. and everybody ought to be able take what they want and get service andvernment pay cost because of the government taxes that will leave a gap in which private enterprise can enter. want e one thing that we to eliminate.

thanks. >> this is the one area that can really destroy vermont's quality life is drug addiction, heroin addiction and open yacht addiction. that's why we are focused in on as a challenge. doing? we we actually passed penalties to drug dealerser for who bring this poison into our state. if they get arrested they'll do time. have moved it from a challenge where we're dealing as law simply enforcement. we say law enforcement, solve this for us. not fair.ng, that's let's partner with em. ermont's leading the way in addiction.pen yacht if you need treatment we want to you have a treatment center you can go to. busted we'll move you

back into a member of society. what we're not doing enough of is prevention but we've got communities all over vermont together to figure out how do we deal with it and take on everyability for it street and corner. we'll make great progress. m >> the governor has gotten an of people are looking forward and look up to the governor across the country how addressing it. i want to wait and see what happens. approach anda good i'm -- i wouldn't do anything different right now. hopefully tic or optimistic that the results will prove to be effective. i i wopt change anything and wouldn't tamper with what's going on. i would like to see what the outcomes actually are. on this one case i do agree with him. >> i also -- i think it's

applaud, peter i or -- although we could monday some of the erback nuisances of the tone making the entire state of the state speech but we need to follow the data and see what's going on. i do believe it's not entirely a law enforcement issue. i do hear these rumors or data moving that people are to heroin from some other of the other drugs. have say that if we can economy andy typical vermont living that will a good enabler as well. a big problem. and lots of ideas for forming this agency in the months ahead.

wondering what the best one far. e heard so >> i'm not sure if i heard a yet.idea as many of you probably don't know but i have a special needs aughter and this is something that is very close to me. i want to make sure that the kids are getting their that riate treatment and they're being -- their families are treating them well and i to figure out by by officials on the streets and less in the state focus in on that problem and make sure that when potential case where children is being harmed we and take appropriately appropriate actions. that's a focusing ce to start

in on. reorganizing so we have more cases and ging the ensuring the children are being protected. >> did you hear any good ideas? have an excellent one. community'sease the sroflment with families that are in poverty. need to circulate more money such pof t have eitherty or half a living wage. can do is thing we engage the community in mentorships which is important people who are in ecovery or people who are coming out of the criminal justice system, because people choices when ew they're making bad choices. make good choices we have to be around people who good choices to understand good t feels like to make

choices. when we create a mentoring ystem and coupling people who need help in that choice making department then we can engage community and do some some remuneration for that service. feel about that? >> the best idea i came up with funny on't want to make out of a very dire serious vermonters is governor.t the agency of human services is of the state unk federal fund and a governor who will will be a full-time and picking a person, man or woman to run that agency working'll have a close relationship with and really pay attention to the details going on. we have all kinds of problems in the headlines all the time

of human the agency services and part of it i would attribute to a governor who has out of state 25% of the time for the last year who attention to ying business. know, being governor is an extraordinarily tough job. that the toughest things i have to do as governor is to families of the folks whose child we lose. can debate whether it's hard addict or child. single case, when adults do awful things to their kids it's almost always as a result of addiction. done? ave we we have increased immediately the number of case workers that working with each family and we've got more case workers on the ground.

policy where no child can be reunified with the sin-off without of a supervisor and looking at reorganizations. dcfs deals with difficult challenges. to do better with opiate addiction and heroin addiction and other addiction and continue challenge but i'm committed to doing better than we've been doing. staff. better communication and more service ncy and better to vermonters. >> thank you, sir. > my prayers to the families who lost their children. spirits spirits are also being broken. i live eight miles from springfield, vermont. arrested adults were and their photographs were put around town. different store owners put up in our town.not

well, those people -- the adults arrested and had their hotographs and names around town in newspapers and pretrial detainees. think how their children feel. spirits were broken. ow you walk downtown and there's store after store after store is closed. you go over to the springfield shack is laza radio out of business and friendly's is out of business. is closing down. when you humiliate and demean a help either. n't we have an obsession with

violence. studio here our high school and college students, some of whom have some for our can't dates for governor and we begin with addision. >> thank you. welfare has been increasingly in demand. n more recent times in alternative to food stamps has been created. transfer cards. what do you believe these cards would be more efficient and increase their effectiveness or should they change their plan for welfare in favor of other options. peters, let's start with you. >> i believe and if i was that if people are you should not be

able to buy alcohol, tobacco or tickets from what is given to you for what you're supposed to be using to take your f yourself and family. not only that, whatever the least vermonter has to make butt off to make their payments should be the bottom of what you're earning. see a lot of people on the system that drive better car a than people working a full-time and a part-time job and if you're not earning your money and somebody else is earning it you shouldn't have all he good things and they without.t go minimum income of a thousand dollars a month or anyway you want. but we need to make sure that the minimum standard that they need for shelter, clothing and education.

tell you when i first it to college, of course would be $10 a semester. hen i came back from the army it was $10 a point. boy, was i angry. that d to understand education is part of the essentials of life along with shelter.and whatever we pick on as a figure orshould be able to use that maybe we should make adjustments taxeverybody but we need to the people at the top to pay for it. let's make them pay their fair share and if that doesn't we can secede and did it that way. i'd like to germ nate an idea. money is an accounting system rigged by m that's

wealthy.er to see an exchange happen and we're giving welfare dollars to be giving back and we need have to a liveable wage and not a minimum wage people are working for 40, hours and bringing up home $1,200 and not having enough to pay their heat and car. here are r problems caused by enforced poverty of an income&that's all for. e time >> for people who do need for stamps and families and individuals they don't pay for the best types of food. hey get so little on the food stamps they're not able to afford enough vegetables and fruits. problem.s a real many low income people are

ends upht and obese and costing taxpayers more because there's more hospital visits and visits and more diabetes and childhood diabetes because the cost of vegetables that the is so high people who need the food stamps can't afford the vegetables and fruits. if they take a couple of food to buy a lottery ticket maybe what they need to lottery so they can afford fruits and vegetables. this like to separate into two issues there. are people who for one reason or can't work that we need to take care of. vermonters aren't going to throw vermonters out in the street. we want to make sure they can decent life if it's not fault of their own. i think there is some abuse in system. what we need to do is create

jobs. if we cut spending and lower property taxes and do a better our school stems that people will have opportunities grow. people will have opportunities to learn and to earn. essentially hat's what we need to do. much. nk you very >> i agree obligation of a society is to take care of those take care st able to of themselves. young and folks that find themselves in a situation where they need help at least forrnment a short time in their lives. big problems of as we look into the next years. system that's crashed and have to figure out how to resurrect some sort of working economy r us with that's in the tank. understanding is that the food stamps and electronic funds

federally em is regulated. i think it's a federal issue. get the e have to economy going. there are all kinds of things we need to do. we don't want to lose track of to take care of those who need help. >> let me talk about what we done. we've taken the card and made it vermonters to buy food at farmer's markets in grown by local farmers, getting more fruit and vegetables into the folks who the cards. the second, there isn't a wants to leave anyone behind. when i became governor were the could ate left where you stay on welfare on an assistance for more than five years. governor is to make sure that we're moving folks assistance to work. we put an end to. that we got rid of the five year

instead we are training vermonters through our departments so we can give them the skills they need to get them a job. gloomers, doom and vermonters have jobs. employers are hiring. is, they can't find enough trained folks do the have.hey that's why we're training everybody for jobs and raised minimum wage and made it possible for the ebt card to be sed in farmer's markets and we're making progress and will serve vermont well. you mentioned the $100 million budget gap.

is a little bit backwards. how did we get in the situation. of years of the rate spending by the state of vermont about three vernor rate of growth of

revenue. actually secured our pension programs going forward y working with the teachers to reduce long term obligations

there. e've got the best bond rating of any new england states triple a because of the fiscal employing. we're one of the things i'm proud of is bringing my business skills state government and that's jobs. the state grow >> higher taxes and spending cuts or combination of both. higher taxes. you know, we have that available you know. social security is know paid on gambling.m 13% of the wealthy's income is that.rom bond income, interest from that.ree if the feds don't want to do it and we have problem this problem, the republicans and the democrats get together on so many things. know, all of them are burlington turning

nd all of them are together on sending weapons all over the including to the zionist --ernment in spending cuts or tax increase? add another element. we also need to look at the system. in every other scenario we have and a private t element. like we have public schools and private schools. -- we're it's a always benefiting wall street. we can take the value of our in a state t it reserve bank, a public bank so when we lend out the value

treasury.to the 90 an also circulate mormon governmental our accidents. >> thanks. i would make l, marijuana legal and tax it. reinstate ll i would all the rest areas on the state ighway that peter haas has removed and save the state from statele lawsuits that the is about to have. when people work for the state transportation part of the interstate 89 you can go 74 miles without a restroom. told me he has diabetes. he has a right to work under the americans with disabilities act and right to a reasonable

acombination. go to the bathroom. o, he has to leave the highway and go to some little town and then he has to pay money to go to the bathroom. going to face a big lawsuit from the state of vermont for closing down rest reas and denying your own employees the right to go to the bathroom. uncivilized. >> all right. mr. peters. it's a combination of more than one thing. the w when i worked for agency of transportation, usually you got a budget and the up right now unless they've changed it, if you don't money you don't np get that money back. send you d be able to programs to any money. just any praplt. not only that, they can say, there's -- they haven't raised taxes but i think they call it fees now and i know i

lately.ot of fees the other thing too is, it might we have all but kinds of snow machining and of people go in vermont. they go out of state to gamble. have casinos next to the ski travels or outside of areas so they have to tral to them and you get your income and skiers and everybody happy taxpayers because the taxes aren't going up. spending.e to cut as you heard our taxes are too high. our business environment isn't friendly as the governor believe.ad you to our economy is growing 1.5% a year. i'll be bold about it. we need vermont health connect and efficiency of vermont. doing anything for us. and they didn't do much for us.

inmate to reduce healthcare spending and we need to stop this ridiculous single that's only going to drive up costs and increase the cost of doing business in vermont. we need to cut spending definitely and we need to create business friendly environment. a quickly, do we have liability here with our lack of restroom facilities? know, we've actually be adding them. a new one in bennington and a great one come intoing the i think we have the right number. we're trying to add one in randolph. it l continue to work on >>. he's lying. them out in '91 and '89. >> we've been building them and away. king them >> we don't have a whole lot of time. this next question will please keep this to 30 second answers.

wondering if you're elected sneak a and you could law through the legislature that u just love to get past but which one would it be? for me.ch thing as far as rnment -- i'm concerned any law that's of ed under the governor darkness is part of the fascism.ent of every transaction should be open . r us >> i'd like to get repeal for january was passed last that's been a sore to me and that's lake shore protection act. that as far as i'm concerned is land grab. >> come not. we need to stop this

single payer healthcare scheme does nothing to reduce ealthcare costs and focus our energies on growing the economy and not putting some kind of boondoggle in place. e have no chance of implementing a single payer going are system that's money. >> well, i'd like to make sure debate for ublic public office includes every candidate. i've been running for three independent and hearld times and other press have never, ever run one article about my platform so that you know what i have to offer. o i think it's very important to be able to reform government level playing motor t our elections

oats drip oil and gas which contain led. stop polluting the people's drinking water. natural gas pipeline under lake champlains. three, we've got to stop dumping treated sue sapblg into reroot it ain and elsewhere. >> all right. >> i would try to sneak in a item veto for the governor. sound to you? t >> it sounds like a great idea now. everybody got a shot at that

one. we're running short on time and candidates so we eed to move along to closing statements tonight and we'll begin with you ms. peyton. you.hank this is probably the last time that i'm going to be running, i'll leave my website up for everybody who wants to see the olutions that i put up there and i want our people to think important to more you is if could you have all the money in the world or you could all the love in the world. which has more value? money to a ated god-like status and it is just an accounting system. the people of vermont to make our -- your decisions to improve the quality of loving in and life of the brotherhood sister hood because it is a uality of love in a community that gives us spiritual wealth

spiritually ry wanting this in this peace can we anaged just the way manage war with appropriate monetary policy. we can grow and thrive. >> thank you. from g statement now peter. >> i want to touch on two thing. is the writers left out one f the finest things about him which is he would never go to a candidate forum unless all the candidates were invited from 1980 on. i know the big one he blocked he said i won't come and invite else.body i think that's a demand we hould make on every incumbent shoe is seeking re-election. everybody isunless invited. second thing is violence. violence to the workers and the plan set and we do to people

all over the world. to stop spending our resources on that and we need to for the benefit of the planet and for the enefit of everybody who is living on this planet because everybody's entitled to live. able to make sure that -- chris erickson. >> if you vote for me i'll do can to stop the f-35 strike fighter jets from to the sed adjacent urlington airport, the largest populated area of vermont. they are designed to be dual apable of carrying nuclear bombs and not safe to be based citizen e population area. f one jet crashes in lake champlain that will permanently destroy the drinking water. if you s erickson and vote for me i'll do everything

a natural gas pipeline from being built lake champlain. they have pipe leeks and pipe bursts and nd pollute the lake water. stop.as got to vote for me. >> thank you. next. >> i'm a husband, and father and veteran and they young children. i have a lot of skin and game here in vermont and i want to and be more ucceed prosperous. i'm disappointed that the here claiming ng all those victories when the numbers don't justify it. he numbers king about the and then when you challenge him says let's nothe quibble about them. and i'm quite disappointed that scott is standing next to me and hasn't put forward a platform or plan. 'm running as governor because i think we need to stop the system ayer healthcare

and cut the costs by opening the marketplace. cutting ound is spending and improving efficiencies as well as private industry. we understood to cut the and we need to provide more school choice so our young families can generate more hope for their hildren and have a more affordable place to live and choice in their education system. if you want someone who is going vermont can that continue to grow, continue to be more prosperous and challenge status quo by making bold statements and bold challenges, candidate. >> thank you, sir. again, and i'm asking for your vote on november 4th. i am a candidate and about as you're going to get. i don't have big business behind me or corporation or nobody from me. te hypbehind

>> i'm a vermonter when you get it all comes from out of state how you can say that candidate.rmont you must be an elder state candidate because it's not you.ont money behind it should be vermont money. issue.uld be a money one.ld be so much for each believe i'm the right candidate. democrat. the >> it's a huge privilege to serve the last four years and for your vote for next two years. i ran because i love this state more than anywhere else and i to make this state a place where more young people can ucceed and grow jobs and economic opportunity and

preserve our quality of life. to wake up on november 5th and one of the seven us is going to be governor. an important election. makes a huge r difference and i'm asking for your vote so we can continue the we've gun because do.have more work thank you for this privilege. closing r final statement will be from scott. vermont public broadcasting, thank you and i everybody where we're talking about issues and things. it's great to see young people engaged. he was engaged in vermont young.s since i was very i want to give a shoutout to my month and a half ago. my mom was running for the state

legislature for the first time county and was really underdog.d as an her campaign theme and really i foundation of her legislative career and life was naive enough that i can make a difference. my mom ended up winning that race. if you know her or learn about in she did make a difference her life. naive ask, join me and be to make sure you can make a difference and get a couple of people to vote with you and an election that can go your way. >> thank you and thanks to all you for being with us tonight. that concludes tonight's program. invite to you join us right back here next thursday evening debate featuring the candidates for governor. following the following week the

andidates for u.s. representatives. and of course don't miss omorrow night's weekly report, round table vermont this week 7:30.ing at for all of us at vermont pbs we thank you and good night. >> the vermont governor's debate more than 100 that c-span is you.ing nd follow us on twitter on c-span. onight on our cam pannian network c-span two a debate from louisiana. senator is seeking a fourth term and faces two challengers, congressman bill retired air force rob mainus. win the two top finishers advance to a runoff a month later.

tonight's louisiana debate is c-span two at 8:00 eastern. here on c-span a debate from the arkansas senate race where prior face as challenge and the two debated yesterday. here's a brief look. on with my go closing statement i have to go back for just a minute because cotton just told a whopper when he said that i have for every single one of barack obama's taxes it's not even close. fact, i voted against every budget that president obama has offered. taxes as i rd on ote to cut taxes by $5.5 trillion since i've been in the senate. i'm a big believer in tax reform and lower the rates. this is more of this fog of

rhetoric tion in this that congressman cotton has gotten so good at doing. his real voting record which you see in his voting record is these investors and these people who are investing in him and want the is return, that's who he listening to and carrying the water for since he's been in the ouse and that's exactly what he's going to do if he gets elected. not listen to you. he's listening to those out of state billionaires who are checks paying for his campaign. in my office i have a plaque on it -- and many of you all have been there, it says, arkansas comes first. this is what i mean by. that i lessen to the people of year as and i work hard after year. i'm ranked as the most one of the most independent senators in washington. voting starts on

october 20th and election day is november 4th. let's go out and win this one keep this seat for the people of arkansas. thank you. >> mr. cotton. i was blessed to grow up on the cotton farm and blessed now to be expecting a baby boy. our baby to have the same opportunities that we did and i want yours to have the ame opportunities as well and have a chance for a better life. are k obama's policies making that harder. in arkansas the name of those pryor because k he votes with barack obama 93% of the time. and that's why a vote for pryor obama.te for he supports his failed economic olicies which are driving down wages. decisive votets a for obamacare and hurting seniors with his cuts to medicare.

he voted for every single penny debt, a trillion dollars every year. even while we're cutting a rillion dollars from our military, mark pryor's a rubber foreign the failed policy of weakness, hesitation and indecision and won't hold obama accountable for not protecting our company and families from ebola. there's a different way, arkansas way. let's put people back to work. have people acleahieving their dreams. balance our budget, quit stealing from our kids and rebuild our military and keep and secure, safe whether the threat is terror disease. this is the choice you face. policies ma said his are on the ballot and they are. if you're happy with barack

obama's policies then your vote will be a vote for barack obama. if you want a new direction or arkansas and for the country then i would appreciate your vote. > another debate coming up tonight live from arkansas here on c-span at 8:00 eastern. now a debate from yesterday in the kentucky senate republican republican mitch mcconnell is seeking a 6th term. debate is one hour. tonight.e to kentucky i'm bill goodman. we'll discuss issues in kentucky's u.s. senate race. our guests are kentucky secretary of state of the party and u.s. senator mitch mcconnell of the republican party. questions tonight from

kentucky viewers. twitter and s on and l and use the web form co contact us or call us and include first and last name on all messages and to the both of you thanks tonighth for being here on kentucky tonight. you have grahams as lled senator mcconnell senator gridlock and stated in one press release his message is more years of brinksmanship. an eturn you said she's inexperienced obama liberal with gun. secretary grams what you can say tonight that would convince the you would be an

independent voice in >> kentuckians know my record. they know the record i have as secretary of state. it is one of putting the people of kentucky first create i have my disagreements with the president. philosophy, the president is not on the ballot this year. it is myself and senator mcconnell. he does not want to take responsibility for all that is wrong in washington, d.c. washington is not working for kentucky and it is due to the gridlock and obstruction and partisanship. it has severe consequences for , toastructure to education education and manufacturing. it is hurting kentucky and i am in this race to hopefully help

give hard-working kentuckians a fighting chance at earning a good wage and having a good quality of life. making sure that we grow the middle class the right way. something that has not been a priority for senator mcconnell, whether you call him senator gridlock emma senator no-show, or senator shut down. lex my opponent has been most of the time trying to deceive people about her views. she is a delegate to the 2008 and 2012 democratic convention.

senator mccaskill did not go. she has made major efforts to try to deceive the people of kentucky about her own views in where she is likely to go if she were to get there. with regard to my own record, there have been three major bipartisan agreements during the obama years between republicans and democrats. the vice president and i have negotiated every one of them. december 2010, the two-year extension of the bush tax cuts. and the budget control act. the fiscal cliff deal on new year's eve of 2012 which made 99% of the bush tax cuts permanent and also got a $5 million per person estate tax exemption which is significant for our family farms and businesses. 90% will have to be sold to get them to the next generation. i am prepared to negotiate with

the other side when we can find areas of agreement but i do not share the president's agenda. it is an agenda that has been formonster but he bad america and kentucky. >> how would your agenda be different? rex as i have said i have been prepared to negotiate with the democrats and we can find areas of agreement. the three major deals i mentioned are the only major deals during these obama years. all of them to either reduce spending or cap taxes low. those were areas that we agreed on so i was willing to negotiate and those were good agreements that ended up being passed by a large majority. quick she would work with the president and senator reed? >> the president has said we are to do comprehensive tax reform. it is a great way to export

jobs. i agree with the president. unlike my opponent who said she is opposed to trade agreements apparently. the president said we ought to be negotiating trade agreements. i and most of my members think that america is a winner when it comes to international trade. i will demonstrated again in the future. and >> secretary grimes, i also want to ask you about endorsing or working on the democratic agenda heard can you address those two points? >> first what you just heard senator mcconnell say is a complete departure from what he said to his family, the koch brothers in california. when they went to help him buy his way back to washington dc, he said he would have nothing to do with giving a debate level and vote to increasing the minimum wage or extending unemployment insurance benefits or helping our students go to college, all common sense bipartisan proposals that the

majority of kentuckians need and deserve because he said he has had enough of those gosh darn proposals. you have yet to hear anything he would work on because senator mcconnell's 30 year record is gridlock, obstruction. it is extreme partisanship accosts this nation a 16 day government shutdown. kentucky, $127 million. my record speaks for itself. i am an independent thinker that does what i do for the people of kentucky. i am not bought and paid for by the koch brothers or any others. >> senator mcconnell? >> speaking of what we say in private meetings, secretary grimes said she would go to a fundraiser harry reid sponsored for her in washington and tell him how important it was to -- >> and i did that. >> she went to the meeting, never mentioned a word about

coal to harry reid. this is the harry reid she will vote for to make majority leader of the senate if she goes there. that will be her first vote. he is the guy who said coal makes you sick. she will enable him to be the leader in the senate which will guarantee we will have no votes on coal. >> senator grimes, did you address: in that meeting? >> senator mcconnell, you and your henchmen, the koch brothers, can put out $16 million in nasty ads, but i can speak for myself. i have strong words regarding senator reed on an energy philosophy i believe that he is misguided on as well as the president. coal keeps the lights on in kentucky. my record is consistent. senator mcconnell fought against the coal-fired plant as a county judge. he has accepted over $600,000,

his family has, from anti-coal interests. it is on his watch that we have lost thousands of coal jobs. when it comes to the trade bill -- when it comes to trade, my record is consistent. i am for free and open and fair trade, especially for our workers. it is needed if we have a strong economy. but we cannot continue to turn a blind eye. senator mcconnell has -- to letting china cheat. we have to hold china accountable. >> we will talk about issues, coal, later in the program. do you want to respond to that? >> i have not said anything in any private meeting that i have not said publicly. i have been entirely consistent both privately and publicly. secretary grimes' whole campaign has been designed to deceive people into thinking she is something she is not. it is pretty obvious, given where her support comes from, all the anti-coal activists in the country, that she is going to do their bidding.

look, the issue of -- the outrageous issue that somehow my wife and i profit from anti-coal activists was given a poor pinocchio's by "the washington -- was given four pinocchios by "the washington post." the only larger was the president, who said, if you like your policy you can keep it. >> "the winner of this election will be in office until 2020." if you are elected by 2020, what would be your signature compliment in office and why will it matter fact the thank you very much for that question. i have in this race because i believe a senator was to help put hard-working kentuckians back to work. i believe that it is a senator's priority to bring jobs back here

to kentucky. and i hope you have already -- you will work full force across the aisle. that is how you get things done and that is what has been missing. we have not had anyone to reach across the aisle to enact the jobs plan. i am the only senator in this race with a jobs plan. it begins by closing the loopholes and ending the tax breaks that senator mcconnell has done to ship our jobs overseas. it continues with strengthening the middle class, and we do that by increasing the middle wage -- increasing the minimum wage. senator mcconnell has said no to increasing the minimum wage. i believe that is how we grow class.imum -- the middle >> so jobs are going to be the center of your --

>> putting hard-working kentuckians back to work, yes. >> there is a great likelihood i will be the leader of the majority in the senate next year. the majority leader gets to set the agenda not only for the country but to look out for kentucky's interests. one of the basic questions is, who can do the most for kentucky over the next six years? we have had an anti-jobs agenda during this administration. virtually everything the president has tried to do has been a job destroyer -- the spending, are owing, taxing, the over regulating. if we had a chance to have a new agenda in the senate to take america in a different direction, we would vote on things like approving the keystone pipeline, which would enable that 20,000 people to go to work very quickly. we would be voting on things like pushing back against the environmental protection agency and its war on coal.

it has cost us 7000 coal mining jobs during the obama years. 7000 coal mining jobs, and for every coal mining job, you use -- you lose three more employees. >> so your signature compliment would be? >> create jobs. get america going again in a different direction. >> there have been a number of media reports on voting, and who voted for which president and what year it happens to be in. secretary grimes, you made news across the state and the nation about that question. the first question to you is, why are you reluctant to give an answer on whether or not you voted for president obama? >> there is no reluctance. this is a matter of principle. our constitution grants in kentucky the constitutional right for privacy at the ballot box for a secret ballot. you have that right, senator mcconnell has the right, every kentuckian has that right. i am tasked with overseeing and making sure we are enforcing all of our election laws, and i have worked very closely, especially with our members of the military, to ensure privacy at the talent box.

-- ballot box. their life on the line -- reluctance as a matter of principle? >> i am not going to compromise a constitutional right provided here in kentucky in order to curry favor on one or other side or from members of the media. >> you will not answer the question tonight? >> again, you have that right, senator mcconnell has that right. every kentuckian has the right to privacy at the ballot box. if i do not stand up for that right, who in kentucky will? >> when you responded to the question during the campaign, you said you were a clinton democrat. i am curious about what in your mind separates a clinton democrat from an obama democrat. >> well, from my work in kentucky and in this campaign,

is one that is based on growing the middle class. as we saw under president clinton's tenure, especially when you increase the minimum wage, you help to expand the middle class. we saw the largest growth under president clinton's tenure than ever before. we have not seen that. it is because not just of who sits in the white house, the congress has a role. your united states senator plays a huge role. you have yet to hear from senator mcconnell how he would help kentucky get more jobs. he does not even think it is his job to bring jobs to kentucky. that is his words to the folks in lee county, kentucky. >> so the difference between a clinton and obama democrat is? >> it is going -- it is growing the middle class in the right way. by making sure we are doping from the foundation up. >> may i respond? >> there is no difference. the clintons support, for example, what the epa is doing in the war on coal. there is not a difference between a clinton democrat and an obama democrat.

there is no sacred right to not announce how we vote. i voted for mitt romney . i voted for john mccain. by the way, in 2012, 116 out of 120 kentucky counties agreed with my judgment that we might be in better shape now, admit -- had romney been elected. with regard to the -- had mitt romney been elected. with regard to the minimum wage -- it was said that raising the minimum wage would cost half a million to one million jobs in the country. an economist in the courier-journal sunday said the city of louisville is thinking of doing it by itself.

it would cost 1400 jobs in the city of louisville. 50% of these jobs come from young people who, in the obama economy, or having a heckuva time finding work. i cannot think of a worse time for killing jobs. there are times when an increase in the minimum wage would be appropriate. but not in this kind of a time with jobs recovery. >> when he went to california, he was against it. -- against a minimum wage. suddenly he is for it. you were consistently against helping people in kentucky actually earn a living wage. let me respond to the false allegations regarding the study the has been done. 90% of those who are on the minimum wage are older than 20 years old. >> senator, let me allow bethany spencer from owensboro to tweet -- do you think the minimum wage is a livable wage? >> the minimum wage is largely an entry level. 50% of those who earn it our young people who begin a career. they do not stay at that rate for very long.

but if you engage in this kind of minimum wage increase right now -- and this is a liberal staffer who used to work for bill clinton, who runs a congressional budget office. he says you will destroy between half a million and one million jobs. 50% of young people. it is not the way to grow our economy. the reason things like this are being contemplated is because of this slow recovery we have had after the recession of 2008. everything the administration has done has made the recovery worse -- the borrowing, spending, taxing, over regulating. the last thing we ought to be doing in my view is destroying jobs for young people. >> secretary grimes, how do you counter that argument? do you think the minimum wage is a living wage? >> i do believe that we do need to work to increase the mmm wage so that it is a living wage. -- the minimum wage so that it is a living wage. the studies that have been done in kentucky -- that is what senator mcconnell has lost sight of. being in washington for 30 years can do that.

the study that has been done here in kentucky, they show if you increase the minimum wage, you would help to increase income for 30% of kentuckians. create thousands of good paying jobs. >> would it not be a job killer? >> what the cbo report says -- and he will not tell you -- is the full story. it would health -- it would help lift one million americans out of poverty. the way we grow the middle class and put hard-working kentuckians back to work is by giving them a living wage. i don't fault senator mcconnell for becoming a multimillionaire on the backs of hard-working kentuckians. that is what america is about. he has gotten rich while keeping the key kentuckians poor. >> i cannot let that stand rich

he has begin than four pinocchios for that as well. >> are you not a millionaire? >> she knows that is a result of inheritance that my wife got when her mother passed away, and she has consistently gone around all over the state and suggested that i have somehow enriched myself at public expense. her family has made more money off the government in the past 10 years than i have been paid

in a salary in all my time in the senate. that is an outrageous suggestion. she knows it is wrong. she has been given four pinocchios and repeatedly for continuing to say that. >> the votes speak of themselves, 17 times voting no on the minimum wage. >> let me remind everyone if you are just tuning in that this is ket and you are watching a debate between senator grimes and that between secretary grimes and senator mcconnell. in the kentucky u.s. senate republican primary in 2010, who did you vote for? >> trey grayson. >> let me ask you, what is the difference in a tea party republican and establishment republican? >> that is a very good question. the tea party movement was spawned, kind of a popular uprising against the spending, borrowing, and taxing of the obama administration. it produced a lot of energy and enthusiasm for our party, which i think led to a lot of success in 2010.

we have had some spirited primaries around the country since then, just like the democrats have had in kentucky forever. it leads to a stronger party in the general election. i had a primary myself this year. i do not own the seat. i have to earn it. i think it produces no bad outcome any more than democratic primaries have produced that outcomes for them and governors races over the years. >> i assume most people who have followed the u.s. senate race in kentucky have heard you both speak a lot about issues. if they have not heard you speak, they have seen an ad or two on television or on the radio. i do not know if they have heard you talk a lot about how what you believe contributes to what you think might be the philosophy or the role of government that you have. talk to me about the fundamental role, the proper role of government in people's lives,

secretary grimes? >> i do believe that government has a place to help make the lives of kentuckians better. we are a superpower in the world, and we have two objectives -- to advance our economic interests and to protect our u.s. homeland. that does not mean that we have to be the world's police. i think we have work that we have to do with battles right here on our home front. here in kentucky, they include helping to put thousands of kentuckians back to work who, under senator mcconnell, 30 years in washington, has found themselves in dire circumstances, unable to put food on the table and gas in their cars. it begins my making sure the women of kentucky get equal pay for equal work. something that senator mcconnell has been against. it begins by making sure our seniors -- my grandmothers -- that they have a senator who

strengthens and protects medicare and social security. >> do you see that as the role of government in people's lives? >> i believe government has a place to make the lives of kentuckians better. we have to have a senator that knows kentucky through and through, not one that is out of touch, but one that knows the people of kentucky and their struggles. >> senator mcconnell? >> equal pay for equal work has been part of the civil rights act of 1964 and 1965. the job of the senator, in my view, is to protect to the maximum extent possible this great country and its framework. the framework involves, bill, they can sure people have the opportunity to realize their ambitions. which means that too much government can frequently be a deterrent to opportunity. that is something we have to

watch to protect against. when you have an explosion of spending and debt and taxes and regulation like we have had over the last few years, it compresses the economy, making it less likely our young people can find work can begin to dig their way out of all of this. now, in the senate there is an opportunity to save and protect jobs almost every day. in paducah, for example, the cleanup at the paducah infusion plan, the new conversion plant that is being advocated and supported by the guy you are looking at. enrichment, the chemical weapons cleanup is employing hundreds and hundreds of high skilled people. stepping in at lake cumberland this year, when they decided a little fish was endangered by raising the water level. solving that problem so we could get tourism back up and running this year.

it is a combination of protecting the people, bettering their lives and creating jobs on a virtually weekly basis by preventing things that kill jobs and appropriate funds that create jobs opportunities. >> senator grimes, could you give me one specific from your jobs plan where the federal government would enhance people's lives in kentucky back of her close to her. -- kentucky. part of what is seen in kentucky is that our unemployment is above the national average. we are running a 90,000 jobs deficit. under his watch, middle-class kentuckians are continuing to struggle. the areas just mentioned -- jobs are lost, not recovered. my jobs plan calls for making

sure we actually grow the middle class the right way. we can help kentuckians' lives improve by making sure that we fight for early childhood education, we fight to give businesses a tax incentive to provide child care services. we fight for veterans to receive the proper treatment when they come back from serving this country. and the benefits that they deserve. >> and you are confident the federal government, if you are elected, would participate in those ideals? >> we fight for the vital infrastructure projects that is a kentucky needs and deserves. eastern kentucky, western kentucky, i-66 and 69. these are projects that the

senator should be fighting for. >> none of that is factually accurate. the biggest problem we have in the country that affects kentuckians in a dramatic way is this job killing obama administration, which my opponent supports. they have crushed the economy. this is the slowest recovery after a deep recession since world war ii. normally when you have a deep recession, you have a quick bounce back. yours is it did a is not happen this time, and you the reason it did not happen is because all of the government excess we have experienced in a the obama years has been your is the obama years has been particularly acute in our state with the war on coal. the congress in the first two years of the obama

administration, when it was entirely controlled by the president's party, obamacare, dodd frank and all the rest, could not give cap and trade through the congress. now he is trying to do it through the epa. this is an administration created depression in eastern kentucky. giving barack obama another vote in the senate, continuing this democratic majority in the a senate is not going to do anything to improve america's economy, and certainly not kentucky's economy. >> we will address coal and we will address the economy. senator mcconnell, one in four kentucky children live in poverty. why? >> because we have not had the kinds of growth and opportunity -- i keep saying the same thing over and over again -- but the economy is very sick. even though unemployment appears to go down, the number of people working for work is the same are seeing the or or number of people -- looking for work is the same number of people you had in the carter administration. administration. and a itober he and i

is the labor participation rate. a lot of people have dropped out. we need to lift people up. the only way to do that is through a vibrant private sector. this administration has been a disaster at getting our economy going. it has been doubly acute during -- because of the assault on the coal industry. >> we hear reports from economists that there are strong job gains nationally in 2014, on pace to be the best job growth for years and's 1990's. the unemployment rate is below 6% for the first time since 2008. and 10.3 million jobs, over 55 straight months. a doesn't this speak that things are on the uptick? >> not by much. it is a very tepid recovery, the most tepid recovery after a deep recession since world war ii. it is not providing enough lift. and then if you add onto that this devastating assault on the

coal industry by the epa, and it explains why kentucky is lagging even in this slow economy. we are slower than the rest because of the assault by this administration on our state. >> secretary grimes, let me ask you to address the poverty question, one in four children living in poverty. and i asked the question -- why? >> the jobs plan -- it is a statistic that needs to be at the center. not just one that after 30 years -- >> how would you address it? >> that is what united states senators should be fighting for. our jobs plan is an action oriented jobs plan that works for our families and veterans, cultivating what is unique in kentucky. training our workers not just for today but for tomorrow, they concur that we are invigorating appalachia and offering better wages and negotiating a better deal. we do this not only by fighting to strengthen and protect our good coal jobs, but making sure we diversify our economies in eastern and western kentucky, something our jobs plan that was developed with kentuckians from both eastern and western kentucky acknowledge has been a failure under senator mcconnell.

we have to have someone who wants to make sure to invest in the infrastructure projects we need in kentucky. the science, technology, and math programs. we need someone who wants to bring eastern and western kentucky not -- to bring eastern and western kentucky online, not someone like senator mcconnell who wants to vote against on the best bills to bring in that growth. >> she did not mention a single program except the minimum wage. the minimum wage increase that she advocates is going to cost us a lot of jobs for young people. a much better way to target the

low income people you are talking about is the earned income tax credit. the way to deal with that in them -- the way to deal with that underemployment problem, a much better way to do it without killing any jobs is the earned income tax credit, which is already a part of the tax law and all to be grown and expanded. >> that may stop here, bill. that is amazing to see the senator say that the earned income tax bill is something that should be grown, because he supported bills that actually/it base -- that actually slash it. his record is against the earned income tax credit. >> i don't have any idea what she has talking about. i have been a long supporter of the -- >> he supported bills that slash it. >> in a large budget vote there are probably things in there that you can pluck out that anyone of us might not prefer. but when you put together a budget, and secretary grimes has not had this experience yet, but when you put together a whole budget, you will not approve of

absolutely everything in there. what the budget is designed to do is put an overall cap on what we are going to spend. you cannot serve in a legislative body and not occasionally cast a vote for something that you are not crazy about because there are other things in the measure that you like. >> senator, secretary, let's talk about the affordable care act. secretary grimes, you have said of the a for double care act you would like to see it streamlined and fixed. i believe that is a quote. let me begin by asking this question, a tweet from john valentine in louisville -- "has obamacare and connect been a boon or a bane for the majority of us kentuckians?"

>> the website can continue, but in my view, the best interest of the country would be achieved by pulling out obamacare root and branch. let me tell you why. in order to provide subsidies for the uninsured -- roughly 40 million of them -- 85 million americans had health insurance. obamacare took $700 million out of medicare, the program for the elderly, and use it -- 700 billion dollars out of medicare, the program for the elderly, out of the last 10 years, and subsidize people -- that was mistake number one. number two, the medical device tax, and the health insurance premium tax. over on the consumers side, you have lost jobs, the cbo estimates 2.5 million jobs lost. higher premiums, higher

deductibles, higher copayments. a lot of catastrophic impact on the nation's health care system, which could have been avoided by not passing this 2700 page bill that put the government in charge of america upon health care. that was a big mistake. with regard to connect, it is a state exchange that can be -- with regard to the medicaid expansion, that is a state decision. states decide -- in our state, the governor decided to expand medicaid. >> you would support the continuing of connect? >> i think it is fine to have a website, yeah. >> well, it has also ensured 520 1000 -- 85,000 of those are in the private insurance market. >> those people, in all likelihood, now are paying more

for less. in the hospitals are now experiencing a new kind of uncompensated care. people who now have insurance but the copayments ended up the bulls are so high, they still cannot pay. -- the federal government is now telling health insurance companies what they can sell. on a couple of points, and secretary grimes, we will ask you to respond in a couple of minutes. on the cbo report of $716 billion, that is spread out over 10 years. and $400 billion, according to the research i read, is due to changes in annual updates on fee-for-service payments to hospitals and other services like home health. they are a value-based reference in payment to medicare. >> that is washington talk for a cut.

i have had 70 hospital town hall meetings over the last two years. our hospitals are being rim racked by these reductions. these are the people who take care of the elderly, and they are being rim racked by the obamacare medicare reimbursement reductions. i was in a couple of meetings with the home health care organization in the last couple of weeks. they are not going to be able to provide as many services because of these cuts. so let's make sure we understand what we are talking about. the 700 billion dollar rate on medicare, a program for the elderly, in order to provide subsidies for people who are not old and not poor enough to be on medicaid, that bill is a huge mistake. >> one other point on job loss -- didn't the cbo reports say the decline in the number of equivalent workers are people not being employed at all and others working fewer hours? isn't that how some have interpreted, and i think you said, a job loss?

>> 2.5 million fewer people will be working. i don't think that is a good idea for the country to have more joblessness, particularly as a result of this bill, which was a huge step in the wrong direction. i think it is the worst piece of legislation that has passed in the last half-century. >> and it is substantiated by fact that premiums are going up all across the country. >> yeah. premiums are going up, the doctor bulls are going up, copayments are going up. just the other day -- deductibles are going up, the payments are going up. i am sure there are some people who are getting insurance who did not have it before. most of the people who signed up are medicaid eligible people who are signing up. but on the private insurance market, it has rim racked the private insurance market.

>> but it is 85,000 people, though. >> many who got insurance after their old policies were canceled, and their new policies are not as good. >> how would you vote on a bill to repeal the affordable care act? >> i have said this is a matter of standing up for 500,000 kentuckians, over half a million kentuckians. there is work we have to do to fix the affordable care act, but we have a senator who realizes what the realities are in kentucky, and the fictional fantasy land that mitch mcconnell is in -- we have over half million kentuckians who for the first time ever are filling prescriptions, they are going to

the doctor and getting checkups. i will not be a senator that rips that insurance from their hand. >> would you give me one specific area where you would either streamline or fix, in your words, the affordable care act? >> sure. extending the grandfathering clause. if you like your doctor in your plan -- and your plan you should be up to keep it. we need to mean that. there is more work that has to be done, but it requires a senator that wants to stop the partisan politics and trying to score points on -- over half a million kentuckians lives are better as a result of governor beshear's expansion of medicaid and the government-based exchange. there is work we have to do, but we need a senator who wants to work in conjunction with the state of kentucky getting it done. >> let's move to a topic that came up a minute ago that has garnered quite a bit of interest during the campaign.

there are plenty of coal miners in east kentucky who have been out of work for two years or more, and i will bet some of them are watching tonight. how will you help them after this election, senator mcconnell? >> here is the problem. we have already discussed it at some length, but it is worth going back to because it is one of the biggest problems we had stayed right now. the administration has issued postal regulations and -- as two regulations through the epa. one would everything i know -- number two and starting a system for plant. initially they want to shut it down. stayed right now. the administration has issued postal regulations and -- as two if you look at the rest -- and we know with the mission is. it is goal -- it is global carbon emissions. no industrialized country in the world is going to do this.

germany, for example, which used to be the greenest country in europe, is now importing coal. the indians have called greenpeace a threat to their economy and said they have no interest in reducing carbon emissions. the chinese are building coal-fired plants. the australians just repealed their carbon tax, which is their version of what president obama is trying to do in the united states. even if you felt that this is a cause worth pursuing, our doing it all by ourselves is going to have zero impact. so what we need to do in congress -- and we have not been able to get any votes because harry reid will not let a single vote on coal to occur. begin to restrict the funding of the environmental protection agency so they cannot go down this path area >> a quick

follow-up question -- is this a place that a world power should take a leadership position in and be the first to take action against -- >> the president has been trying to take a leadership position, no one is interested in tying their hands behind their back and creating more problems for their people in pursuit of a goal they do not -- >> you are not looking for the united states to be the first one? >> our job is to look out for kentucky's coal miners. this administration has engaged in an assault. if the american people change the makeup of the senate and give me a chance next year to set the agenda for the country and for kentucky, we will at least be voting on efforts to rein in epa. let me say one final thing. the reason harry reid won't allow any votes on coal is because he is afraid they will

actually pass. i will guarantee we will vote on those kinds of issues. >> secretary grimes, how will you help coal miners if you are elected? >> i am helping them right now, trying to push our current senator to support commonsense measures that would protect the health and safety of our miners. the legislation proposed by jay rockefeller and senator manchin, to make sure that the health care coal protection benefit act is supported by kentucky senators, all things that have not happened yet. i am proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with the united mine workers in kentucky and across the nation. they have endorsed me because they are ready for a center that will have their back and fight to make sure they will get the the nation. benefits they are due and deserve, not have to fight, as they are doing right now, the current senator, to get the benefits that they deserve, the protection that helps make it easier for our minors, their

retirees, the widows, their families to get those benefits. senator mcconnell has told you here tonight he wants to repeal route and branch, making sure -- to repeal root and branch. we have to work across the aisle in a coalition effort to build, especially with other energy producing states, the effort to make sure that senator reid or whomever the majority leader is listens to those here in kentucky to make sure that cold has -- that coal has its rightful place as a primary american export. he is still not being heard in washington, especially to the benefit of our coal miners. >> secretary grimes, what is your position on climate change? do you question at all the scientific evidence and research that lends itself to the debate going on with climate change?

>> i don't think you have to be a scientist to recognize the realities of what is happening around us. it did not stop senator mcconnell from having an opinion on how to move the economy forward. it should not stop you here. i recognize, unlike senator mcconnell, the realities of global warming. but i do believe we have to take a balanced approach, and that is fighting to protect the good jobs we have here in the state, especially coal jobs, with a solution to make sure that we leave this world in a better place for my nieces and nephews, for the children i hope to have some day. i think that balanced approach is looked at as a fighting example for clean coal technology. kentucky has gone without the funding we need to make such technology affordable. we cannot go any longer without a senator that does not have the backbone to stand up and fight for our miners and their jobs. >> do you believe that clean coal technology is in fact working and is viable and there

is a demonstration of that somewhere in the united states or the world? >> i believe it exists. i believe we have to fight -- >> where is it? >> you can see in west virginia, the research in -- the research and development they are doing there is tremendous. i will be the senator, and i am proud of -- i am proud to have the united mine workers support. >> you have talked about the economy, senator mcconnell -- and i think you would grant that you are not an economist -- and the aca, but you are not a medical doctor. do you believe that we should even be discussing climate change? >> look, there are a bunch of scientists who feel this is a problem and maybe we can do

something about co2 emissions. george will, the economist, wrote recently that back in the 1970's a lot scientists felt we were moving toward an ice age. i think the main thing to understand here is the job of the united states senator from kentucky is to fight for coal jobs in our state. this administration has destroyed 7000 of them. it is not surprising that secretary grimes had the support of the umwa. >> i think it is worth noting -- i hate to interrupt -- under this administration, senator mcconnell fails to see he has a role, and all of the jobs that have been lost in the state, they are on your watch. you have been here for 30 years, and you do not want to take any responsibility for the loss of jobs in the state. it is wrong. >> secretary grimes, if i may, congress did not pass what the

president is doing. we defeated it. when your party controlled both the house and the senate by large majorities. this is a barack obama war on the coal industry, through the epa. congress did not do any of this. >> and a failure on senator mcconnell's part to form a coalition to stand up. you cannot just read one line of a cbo report or take one line of a resume. and what senator mcconnell's resume shows -- what he has been working for is not the people of kentucky or easton weston kentucky looking to have their economies further developed. the only person washington benefiting the senator mcconnell in the millionaires in billionaires that he has bankrolled. >> to you want to respond to that, senator? we mentioned this before, that we started our conversation with a economist from the courier-journal. i have been teaching a course

this semester about you, the u.s. senate race. one of their assignments was to write out a question. this is from anthony pendleton, a jr. from lexington. he wrote this question -- "student loan debt hit a recently -- a recent high of $1.2 trillion. it is keeping people from getting married, buying a home." what do we do to fix this, senator mcconnell? >> the reason this young man has a problem like this is because the economy is so poor.

we are in a situation here where young people get out of school, having gone into serious debt, and then they cannot find work. unless we get the economy going, the -- this problem is going to persist. my opponent supports a bill that is a big tax increase, and i think that is exactly the wrong thing to do in this environment. until we get the economy going, we are not going to be able to have much of an impact on this problem. let me just say, obamacare also affects this. the governor's decision to expand medicaid, the two biggest items in any state budget are medicaid and education -- that leads to the legislature reducing funding for education, that is passed on to public universities and they raise tuition. health care is driving tuition up and compounding the problem further for these young people. >> secretary grimes? >> i think this again shows the complete difference between senator mcconnell, the senator of the past and the senator for the future, a senator who just gave you washington speak versus someone who is kentucky through

and through. someone who wants self-promotion for his party, versus someone who wants to be a senator for the people of kentucky come especially our students. i wholeheartedly believe the filibustering effort senator mcconnell led against the recent bill this year to reduce the student loan debt facing our students was wrong. we have to have a senator that realizes we have to -- we have students here in kentucky who are being crushed by student loan debt. a woman made the right decision, went to college, that she now has a student loan payment that is higher than her mortgage. she does not have a senator who wants to back her. she has a senator in mitch mcconnell who said he does not want to consider allowing a debate or a vote on refinancing student loan. >> do you support the legislation?

>> it is not just senator warren will. it is supported by countless republicans as well. to make sure we are putting kentuckians, especially our students and graduates first. they deserve a senator who wants -- >> it is not supported on a bipartisan basis at all. all it does is pass the debt onto the federal government, which under the obama administration, the debt has exploded. we have had more debt during the obama years than all the presidents from george washington down to george bush. so senator -- so secretary grimes is saying let's have more debt. what we are leaving behind for them is threatening their future. every generation of americans has gone to their grave believing that they could -- that they had in fact left behind a better america than their parents left for them. that is now in doubt, and his massive debt we have hanging over the future has really compromised the chances of our young people from fulfilling their dreams and living the kind of lives they had hoped to live.

>> if i might, i want to address the massive debt that we have -- it is $17 trillion. it is 17 trillion reasons why not to send senator mcconnell back. two wars on the nation's credit card? >> i will ask you to go first. november 4 has great significance for you. but on november 5, kentuckians all over this commonwealth will get up, go to a job, if they have one, pay a mortgage, and they will try to feed a family. what i want to pose to both of you -- they want to know which of you they can trust more to provide for them a decent standard of living and equality of opportunity. secretary grimes, you have 30 seconds. >> well, i believe kentuckians see my record -- it is a record of being an independent thinker, putting partisanship aside, and putting the people of this state first. that is what my job is all about. the copperheads of jobs plan, i am the only one in this race with a comprehensive -- the

comprehensive jobs plan. i am the only one in this race with a comprehensive job plan. that we fight for them to earn a living wage. that we fight for women to pass not just the right but that it be enforced, equal pay for equal work. that we fight for our seniors to strengthen and protect our seniors for social security. >> a very good question. who can best look out for our state over the next six years? i think i have demonstrated that i have the leadership qualities to do that. a recent poll of congressional staffers called me the hardest working member of the united states senate out of 100. we have a chance to have the hardest working senator for another six years.

>> senator, secretary, thank you for being here. join us next week for another program on "kentucky tonight." >> was that an effective answer? surprised that she had come up with a more tolerable way to answer this without giving senator mcconnell fo dder for tv commercials. the question is not some much is this a conservative voters or swing voters, eastern kentuckians and western kentuckians have been bombarded with ads drying ties between them. if people do not make that

connection they will not. will this hurt her with a base that wants to know why she will not embrace the democratic party's standard bearer and his position on the issues. >> last night's debate was the one and only debate. did anyone win? >> i do not think so. my feeling has been that it .annot win a campaign he managed to keep his cool throughout avoiding that pitfall. some of thehat flaws in her campaign strategy are coming to a head. she spends a much of the last

year and half talking about who she is not. she is not mitch mcconnell and she is not president obama. you have to tell voters who your and just not who you are not. >> where is the latest holing? >> the latest polling, we are lacking for pulling here. has a small but steady lead. poll,ll, the bluegrass last week showed alison lundergan grimes with a two-point lead. it is a big change from what we have been seeing. is a close race and will probably continue to they. host: isn't president obama a factor in this race? guest: nationally the environment is somewhat poisoned by his low approval ratings. they are even worse in kentucky.

his approval ratings are around 30%. mitch mcconnell knows that. he is use that as the essential facet of his campaign to cloak alison lundergan grimes in this veil of unpopularity. what we saw in may, look like he was having success doing that. we won't know if he is ultimately successful until election night. host: what is mitch mcconnell's popularity like? guest: marginally better than president obama's. he is not a well like politician. he attributes that to his leadership role. kentucky is fed up with washington and that is reflected in his approval numbers. the biggest question will be answered will be what do you

dislike more? host: sam youngman >> plenty of campaign 2014 coverage tonight on c-span. next, the arkansas senate debate between mark pryor and tom cotton. at 9:00, the south carolina governors the base between nikki haley and challenger benson jenin. we will be live for oregon governor debate between john kitzhaber and his republican challenger, dennis richardson. next, we will take you live to the university of arkansas and fayetteville for the second arkansas senate debate between senator mark pryor and his republican challenger tom cotton. live coverage here on c-span. >> and those watching us on