the corporations. we need to have the corporations paying their darn taxes. can read the -- redirect some of this funding into morn minnesota so that -- into northern minnesota so we can go projects that are less environmental deadly and we to three hundred jobs, northern lights, they were day,ng about the other 13,800 jobs for the eighth district. something to look at. it may be temporarily but three four years down the road maybe something else will happen. need that mine up there. so -- much.nk you very representative nolan on precious mining, sir. >> first of all, i grew up on the iron range.

a huge part of when we are.d who we our economy it has been said up timber,based on taconite, tourism. enjoys the great outdoors more than we do up here. our water. our forests. lakes. we treasure them. that is we we live here but the -- that is why we live here that reject the arguement because something has never been done before safely it can never done. there was never a catalytic converter or a scrubber on a plant. studentcoal fired power we didn't have a way to take the toxins out of lakes and rivers streams. i submit, i submit that we mow have the technology. brainpower, all we have to have is the resolve

to do it right. know, on your right here my opponent suggests we should do away with all a of the e.p.a. regulations and onerous rules. regulations which, by the way, have cleaned up our air and our water in a little over generation i increased life in america from about 47 to about 90. maybe one of the greatest history ofs in the humanity. i submit that we must be good, sound,h environmental rules and regulations and we have the move ahead with and nonferrous mining. minerals that are badly needed. huge part of our economy and our culture and we need to protect our environment just as that, too, is a critical essential part of our

culture.nd our >> mr. mills, sounds like there here?be common ground >> well, not really. you know what? i'm for it. polymet is amazing and well thought out. the since and engineering is there. mr. sandman is against it and we are not quite sure where representative nolan is. cycle hest election blasted support of the strategic then went andnd voted for it. had aluth news tribune scathing guest editorial which outlined representative nolan's flops also most recently in september in the duluth news tribune they were talk about how he is hedging his support of alymet and the daily cost it scathing editorial complete with a video outlining representative nolan's flip flops. so we can -- he can say he is for it right now, but where is

gentlemenning to be tomorrow? and you know, you can look at online -- isf as son line. online. look it up for yourself. thank you. >> thank you. minute, mr. sandman, if you would like. science forhave the cleanup when it happens. that. as nowok at what is happening without the mine being there we have the metal mercuries in the water in the fish already. one in ten babieser who in northern minnesota show a higher thatted of elevation of metal in their blood. our babies. what will happen when this happens? it is not if, it is when. happens.n it we are the ones that are going to suffer. are the ones that is going to suffer. your grandchildren.

affect us right now but you go down two generations, it will. and if their record is so great, why are all of the accidents with this top story detype miningaround the world? unsafe because we cannot take care of it when it happens. thank you. >> thank you. congressman, one minute, please. polymed.i do support i have always supported polymed. i have always supported mining i have always supported doing it the right way in compliance with good clean air, water, health and safety standards. take issuesly you with the standards and you take issue with the mining. consistent.has been it has been clear. and you can say that is being on thish somehow and of of the i. you're darn right it is.

i'm for mining and for doing it the right way. a has been a leader in clean water technology. we make some of the best high pumps.e we make some of the films that withto reverse osmosis and regard to wild rice, i have been picking wild rice all my life. pick rice this year. i was, wasn'there very good either, skip. but we got a few pounds. polymed said give us your standard, 250 parts, 0 parts, will buy the pump and filtration and give you stan tard you feel is important to protect the where and the rice. knowledge and technology and know-how we just to have the will. >> if everyone wants to know how has been on each side of the issue google it. the information is out there. over.bate's >> thank you, gentlemen.

on it in somed to comments but let's explore act.er the affordable care an important issue that keeps coming up. has withstood of alcohol challs congress. is it saled issue or in your fromon where to we go here? congressman nolan? >> there is never a final score politics so i suspect it is not a settled issue. thatlike the good things it has done. i have, in fact, probably some oneur same friends here, with parkinson's disease and couple with a child with a brain tumor who were thrilled with the affordable care act because they were protected from bankruptcy and they were able to get to provideinsurance for their family. those are just a couple of the that the affordable care act has done that i think are

most important. final thing?e no, i have introduced a number of amendments to make some changes to it. to make it better. and yes, i do support single payer which is exactly what medicare is. you know, they administer the medicare program in the country about three or four percent. the private sector insurance administer for about 27%. and that is why, you know, third of all of the healthcare dollars that we spend go into administrative profits for big insurance companies. we need to find a way to get universal healthcare that is inordable for everyone america. there are still 40 million people that don't have insurance in america. not fixed wet. yet. this thing is not over yet. there is still a great deal more we need to do. is make sure everybody pays. kind of a conservative notion

but i embrace that. payingre everybody is the same rate because that is the fairway to do it. and make sure that everybody has fundamental basic coverage. that is what medicare attempts to do. and a pretty darn good job that is what i propose for the american public. nations in this world of ours do it. and guess what? healthcare for lower costs than what we do and they get better results in terms life expectancy, infant mortality and all the rest. can do better and i'm committed to it. thank you. >> thank you. affordable care act? >> first of all, what cannot continue.ill not what we have seen from the affordable care act so far is costs have bon up and gone up d access has gone down. people are paying higher deductibles and getting less for it. remember the promise if you like your plan you can keep your plan

like your doctor you can keep your doctor? that is a lie. will notad plan and it work. i'm for healthcare reform this andally brings down costs increases access. goals of the affordable care act which is making sure that people don't have to worry preexisting conditions, theyime maximums or if have a catastrophic health condition they don't have to worry about where the care is from. are we a society of social nets and legal protections or a welfare state with a government big enough to give us everything but also big enough to take it away. strengthen social safety nets such as the comprehensive health association which due to obama care is closing at the end of this year. at that have looked high risk pool. was it perfect?

no. have made it better, yes. we could have worked and let the bring the medical economy, the inflation rate of line withl economy in inflation rate with the rest of the economy. because we know the free market works. we know that socialism does not work. so buying and selling insurance lines, tort reform, price transparency in the economy, and also more utilization of health savings power in theut the hands of the patient and the consumer. it shouldn't be between the patient, the government, the insurance company and doctor. it should be between the patient the doctor. we have to get back to when we stand as americans. >> thank you. mr. sandman, your thoughts on act?ffordable care >> that is just it. affordable. i'm for everybody does need

payer is thengle program that is -- but the program that is out there right make it affordable to anyone who is single, maybe welfare. maybe having a minimum wage at mcdonald's. it is not affordable. the wholey we scrap plan but we definitely take it off the table and we fix the thing. if other countries in the world can do this, why not us? profitdriven so much by and greed, by the corporations, they forgetmpanies, that iseir people and us. looked at, to be scrutinized and make it affordable, darn it.

affordable. tal rebuttal, if you will? hemr. mills now is saying supports many of the things that are in the affordable care act but somehow you want to repeal it. talk about double speak. smell like the barn on a warm sunday afternoon here. the fact is, you know, you keep talking about free market. you keep talking about affordable. why to you think we had to abandon the free market and medicare? because people couldn't afford it, that is why. and why do you think we need some changes now? well, first of all, we got to rebuild the middle class. afford anything with the minimum wages and you oppose increase in their minimum wages and find this personally super rich that the millionaires and billionaires taxes.have to pay more i find it offensive that you deny working men niemann the

and women in this country a then theye because mid be able to apored some affoe healthcare. let's not throw the slogans about socialism and government control and taking over. looking for common sense solutions here to get affordable everybody in america. it is a fundamental right where i come from. and we need to rebuild this middle class so people have some thingsto afford a lot of like a home. and to afford to feed their children without having to work two or three jobs. what this contest is all about. >> thank. >> that is what this choice is all about. are for.n of who you >> thank you, congressman. a. mills, i suspect you have response? >> how much time? he covered a lot of ground there. says that that it is smelling like the barn i believe. how i talked about how i would handle healthcare reform i have always been consistent.

that is your accusation substantiate it without editing context.out of as far as the minimum wage is concerned those are stepping ande jobs designed for 16 17-year-olds to get their first job and the skills and experience they need to get to next paying job that they have. the fact that there aren't jobs after those is a stunning indictment of the failure of the democrats that have been in for theof this economy last six years. we shouldn't be removing those bepping stones we should reigniting our economy because oil fields nobody is talking about minimum wage. they are talking about jobs and hingesc prosperity and are happening. and -- and things are happening. the other thing is that talkedntative nolan about common sense solutions. i hope that single payer government run healthcare is not a common sense solution to when we need to do with our healthcare economy. you, mr. mills.

mr. sandman, would you care to respond? >> once again, we got to have at affordable. i talked with some people here week ago andfour just to make a living this young three part-time jobs. that is not acceptable in the like ours. have thenot afford to insurance. really be looked at, analyzed, taken apart, and make it affordable for everyone. here in this great state shouldhe united states have to work three jobs at minimum wage and still suffer. one.

land ofppose supposed to be the opportunity. i don't see no opportunity there. at all. >> thank you very much. possibly haven't this forum without talking about guns. gentlemen, i watch your tv adds it is like watching the hunting channel sometimes. let's talk about guns both in the context of of the tragedies of mass shootings but also in protecting and respecting our second amendment rights. will begin with you. >> thank you. first of all, we need to enforce haveaws that we currently rather than making up new ones. it doesn't make any sense when have right nowe go unenforced. i'm somebody who will stand up for your second amendment rights. republicantive nolan earned an f rating from the n.r.a. failing grade from the national rifle association and if anybody wants to debate that go to nolanrecord.com and see

how he earned the failing grade go to the national rifle association website itself. he voted for the national gun registry. he wasn'ted to ban smaller framed handfuns back in the 1970's and -- handguns back in the 1970's and then gets back to washington, d.c. and goes on the sunday morning talk show circuit and starts talking about banning semi automatic rifles the ones that look scary to him and have government tell us how many bullets we can have in our gun. representative nolan more than earned his failing grade and in washington, d.c. i will stand up for your second amendment rights. thank you. >> thank you. mr. sandman? totally support the second amendment. veteran i have been trained to use guns. there needs to be tweaking with registration and back ground checks to cope the

keep thehs -- psychopaths and crazies as i from gettingem their hands on guns. we need to dig deeper into the checks and not allow the school shootings to happen. guns don't kill people. poem. kill so that system -- people kill people. failing so we need to lock at that process of registration -- look at ha registration and back it is ground checks for anybody, gun.ype of buying them. and that is a start. but i do support your right to bear arms. rights to bear arms. do moreeed to background checks. thank you. >> thank you. congressman? i said on "face the nation" was that i don't

aed an assault rifle to shoot ck. and i don't. perhaps you do. maybe you should spend more time at your shooting range. but, the fact is right now you only have three shells in your gun when you are shooting ducks. is there have been numerous safety measures that the yearspassed over that have not in any way righted the right of our to bear arms. that is just the hard, cold fact life. kids can't go to school with a a grenaden and launcher. that was outlawed a long time ago. doesn't take away our right to bear arms. the right to bear arms as skip is fundamental. many of us have taken the oath to safeguard and protect that right. and with regard to the n.r.a. again.ng to row pet repeat it

it has been made clear that the primarily ofe up washington lobbyists in thousand dollar suits lobbying for gun manufacturers and the people who guns. andn.r.i. guys that i hunt fish and hang out with, i have seen surveys that show this three out of four of them background checks. to you really want the right to to peopleand arms that are convicted violent terrorists and people who have been found with serious mental illness? you want the right to sell guns to those people? what do you have against a checks?nd gun safety is one thing. protecting our second amendment rights is another. i support our second amendment rights. i love to hunt. i love to fish. i love to sport shot. and my wife, quite frankly, we

a rather remote location and glad to have some guns around for personal protection. would like to remind a few members of the audience to themselves. mr. mills and mr. sandman and oneressman, i will offer minute ro rebuttals. reasonableouch on gun control. >> i think it is way over the line to accuse me of wasn'ting guns to criminals and terrorists. we a background check and we we haveollow the laws rather than to crowiate new ones. i believe the exact quote that used was i don't need an assault riffle to shot a dub and i think they should be banned. mattic riflesh work exactly the same way look.less of how they i don't want the government to tell me i can only have three bullets in my gun. if you want to find out how rick

gradeearned his failing from the national rifle association go to the n.r.a. to nolan right.com. >> we need the background checks. countryy in this great of ours has the right to bear arms. to do something to keep the crazies, the sigh psychopaths, the mentally ill from getting their hands on walking intons and a school because they had a bad day. do better background checks. in thank you. you, gentlemen. let's turn. >> the congressman has one minute. >> congressman? >> i just want to agree with mr. sandman here. and stewart, you know that they can walk across the street, the people that mr. sandman is talking about that we don't want to have guns they can walk

across the street from your store and go to a gun show and buy all of those guns. mr. sandman said and i agree, something needs to be done about that. oppose that.t you but many of us feel that background checks are important of the hands of traitors and detroitor people violently and criminally threatening violence on other people. there is no reasonable civil rationale for not putting together a complete system of background checks to cope guns to of the hands of people -- keep guns out of the hands of of people with those histories and inclinations. >> thank you. gentlemen, let's turn your attention overseas for a moment. we are confronting a growing isis.ist threat in the united states has led a coalition in air strikes but alone won'tstrikes win the battle.

won'tministration says we commit groun ground troops. how do we address thissish somehow of a growing terrorist threat? mr. sandman, let's start with you. >> the first statement i would like to make. america should not be the world's policemen. forces need to on the and put their grooms ons ground. i have been to war and scene war has donethe damage it to our young men and women both from the past and from the future. served two tours in vietnam. like.what the enemy is how they hide. men andisk our young women, i don't believe the to send ours needs ground troops in. air assault when they are doing right now, i agree

with that. need to have saudi arabia step up. they have the biggest air force in that region. let them step up and start troops on grounds. thetheir troops face danger. i'm sick and tired of the united being called in to be the world's policemen. to step back. we need to bring our boys and let them fight it out over there because they have they have the funding from the united states to do that. by god, they should step up men and our young women. danger.their lives in so you guys know where i stand

thank. so >> congressman? in the, i have lived middle east. studied language. thed the culture. throughout that region and got a good feel port people over there. a couple of things. it is very complex. things are not quite as they appear. i tell you what some of the facts are. trillions of dollars, precious blood in this conflict. directly or indirectly we have supplied arms to just about every single element in that fight over there. arms to theiving mujahadin and they march inside al-qaeda. attackedthe people who the world trade center. we supported saddam hussein. weaponshe used chemical because we gave them to him. then we decided to overthrow him

shi'ites andhe maliki, mother would have called larky. larky after they shut down the churches and synagogues them to get out of there or they would kill them and the sunnies then they gave money to the sunnies so protect shi'ites. dpens the sheeties. money to syria to the free syria army who, by the the muslimually brotherhood. then we were going to attack asaad because he was aligned with hezbollah and with iran. now we are going to attack the people who are opposing asaad in withnce with hezbollah and iran. and the other radical elements. point is no, the matter how well intentioned we

are, we have given money and arms to everybody on every side of this fight. it.an ill afford these are moneys that are needed here in america for deficit reduction, and for rebuilding america. bring our troops home. get out of this conflict. it is not our fight. it is theirs. in it forbeen thousands of years. and we can can ill afford to spend anymore money in this conflict. >> thank you, congress-mile-an-hour. congressman. mr. mills? with the failure to get a status of forces agreement with the iraqi government. prematurelyt we withdrew the troops from iraq and it it wasum filled up by bad people doing bad things. al-qaeda is not on the run. been decimated. we have given them a country. a choice in this one. they have a direct stated

attackingof americans, attacking america and abroad. interests and the current track that we are on is the right tract need to leverage our air power. we need to work with allies in the region, whether it is saudi arabia, whether it is turkey, it looks like they are getting interested and it is right in their interest to make sure that we crush the threat of isis. pashmurga,ish merging with them or properly the key word is properly vet #-d moderates to make sure the we can give them training or weres, logistical support and intelligence they need so this particular coalition can be successful at of creatingmistake the vacuum. thank you. mr. mills.nk you, mr. sandman, would you agree to respond? agree with mr. nolan. we need to stop selling arms to

the people over there. to bring our people home. they have been fighting for how many thousands of years? i don't believe we are doing them any favors by supplying arms to there. we need our boys and young women home. stay out and quite trying to be the world's policemen. isneed to take care of what happening here in the united states. >> thank you. congressman? >> just i want to reiterate that thisve no friends in conflict. inevitably it is the arms that we send that are used against us. and even if you think it is a good idea we can ill afford it. is bankrupting this country and bankrupting our nation. moneys we not only need to rebuild america. moneys that we need to protect vet run veteransthe home.hey come we have a sacred obligation to

serve and protect them when they come hope. been committed to that and this is why we have to put involvement in this conflict. it makes us a target and the con liquidity and and itates the violence is a conflict only the people in middle east can resolve themselves. have to put boots on the ground and be there for years. 25, 30, 40 america will not be around in years if we keep spending billions of dollar doln a timebuilding abroad at when america's bridges are falling down and our veterans taken care and we need to use the money and energies for deficit reduction and rebuilding america. you. mr. mils? >> one thing that i agree with and that is that we have to take care of our veterans. we haven't done a good job with it in the past but we have to do a better job. everybody gave some, some gave all. and it is something that we just

to make --have country have to make that a priority if we are going to be women aproceed to fight our wars we have to take care of them when they come home. i a choice in this. we can't bury our heads in the while there are people being beheaded, americans being sands of thehe middle east. thank you. >> you all kind of hit on issue of taxation. let's talk about taxation. one side is tax the rich, the middle class. the other side charges that you know you are offering tax breaks wealthy, tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas. what approach when it comes to taxation best benefits everyday minnesotans and which approach more quickly fuels economic upswing? nolan, can we start with you, please? >> first of all, if it is not should be known that i spent the last 32 years of my

life in business. built nieman my own business. factoryl and a pallet business. i bought logs from the loggers throughout the district. delivered pallets to the the business.in i know what it is like to build a business from the bottom up and create jobs. like toste to have to meet a payroll and finance a toster to comply with a wide range and a mereat rules and -- myriad are government rules a and obligations. would i like not to be obligated to do any of that? we, of course. in the saw mill business before osha there was no one that could on their fingers because they lost too many in the saws. in the brainerd area i remember kids were 25 and 30 years old and their life was over for of a little ven ventilation

because their lungs were full of fiberglass and now with osha, guess what, they are still kidsg fiberglass boats and are able o retire. so when it comes to taxes, when taxes, i am fully supportive of things like investment tax credits for equipment andew quilt and new n machinery. and support innovation and starts and entrepreneurship and new business activities. the small business administration something we were advantage of in creating our business. which by the way, my children and theybusiness today are doing nicely with it in saw mills in emily minnesota and and the palleta palletaand supplying parts and they are doing wight well. tricklet away from the down theory. we need to rebuild from the i disagree withd

you on the need to provide more andcuts for the super rich your opposition to increasing the minimum wage. beyond that, we need tax incentives to stop sending andfacturing overseas headquarters overseas to escape taxation. it is time that the rich and the powerful who have benefited so much from the greatness of this start payingup and their fair share in the same way that working men and women in morecountry are paying than their fair share. >> thank you, congressman. in fairness, we will give mr. mills and mr. sandman two and a half year. mr. mills? >> thank you. our tax code is way too complicated. i.r.s. is way too power of and they have been weaponnized against the american people. need a flatter, fairer tax code that benefits the middle class. are talking about one deduction automatic above the

poverty line. then we are talking one or two lower rates and then deductions starting for charitable giving, mortgage also expenses for education. not limited to those, but it has flatter, fairer. it has to be budget neutral and you couldso simple fill it out on the back of a postcard and send it in because i.r.s. and aller less complicated tax code. we have to understand the engine of our part of minnesota. employers arel small and medium-sized taxed at theat are personal individual level. llc's. s, sole proprietorships and partnerships. individuals.s as when they are paying a higher tax rate, 39.6% and corporate america, wall street is paying 35% and they have armies of

accountants and lawyers and c.p.a.'s, you know what? that is the reason why we have disproportionately, one of the reasons why we have high unemployment in our part of minnesota. numbers, yeah, you know, for the state look good. but when we start picking apart happening in the eighth district, the iron range has 64% unemployment than the rest of the state. brainerd and grand rapids topped out above 10% unemployment. of bemidjiskirts about 10%. out at that is not the real number there's. we had a much higher rate of employment and participation in the employment market about six years a ago. oursands, thousands of friends and neighbors have given up looking for work all together employment.nder we have people working two or three or four part-time jobs and

talked about that because they can't find a good paying or higher paying job that fits levels and that is indicative of an economy that is not work, that is sputtering in and starts and if we want to make sure our part of economy weas a great have to look at reigniting main street business from main street not from washington, d.c. or wall street on down and we need projects liketing sandpiper going and making sure polymed is going. we know how to do it. we just have to go and do it. mr. mills.u, mr. sandman your philosophical approach to taxation? mr. mills there, the i.r.s. is a big monster out dark lurking in the waiting to strike. where i would start with that, i would start making sure that we thethe money out of corporations. stop that subsidies. wrong, but last i heard it was like $500 billion a

year. corporations start paying their taxes. know, $4 billion to $5 billion tooth. in a strong tax base but it doesn't need to come from the backs of the middle class. it doesn't need to come that way. at the to start looking top. he say the trickle down effect? town at all.ickle -- down at all. it only goes so far. so when you talk about taxes, flat tax break everyone.ir for everyone. not just the ones at the top. ecan have some montori -- then we can have some money that here ino some things minnesota. we can redirect that money.

will do theed, i best i can can to redirect that money. money out oft the government. we need to put it in the pockets of the people. yous, my friends. that is you. thank you. >> thank you, congressman nolan, more minute on taxation. >> well, a couple of things. stewart and a lot of people like to talk about the tax rates of 38% and 35%. reality.k about recent tax study here in that the average person making a million dollars effective paying an rate of 13%, not 35% or 38%. person makinge $30,000 to $50,000 a year is 31%.g so the one who made a million has $870,000 to get by on for the year and the person making $30,000 only has $20,000 get by on for the year. stuart, you made more money with

that your family pays you sittinger who in an hour and a half than the minimum wage will make in a week. one of your fellow employees came up to me and said and he did the math and found out he would have to work for your company for 33 years to make pays you in aly year. the fact is the rich of getting are gettingoor poorer and the tax policies are acceleratingand that and in no small part responsible for that. thedy is for penalizing rip. on the contrary. we just want the rich and fair share pay their and reject the trickle down theory of economics and support increasing minimum wages and living wages and rebuilding the is howclass because that you rebuild the promise of america. >> mr. mills. i assume you would want to respond to that. >> at the beginning representative nolan was taking buteat case for tax reform then started talk persian gulf outalking about ourfamily's bus.

we been successful. we to make a profit. that is the purpose of of business. whether it is through profit or whether it is through your paycheck, anybody who is in business knows that that is an to reinvest back in your business to sustain the currently have a and to create new ones. businessleet farm's model. we work hard, sweat of our brow. sometimes we have callouses on hands. they may get a little bloody at times but at the end of the day payope make a profit and to ourselves good wages but that is an opportunity to reinvest back the business and that is our entire business model. we are not publicly traded. capital money. no private equity money. what we have been able to do is sure we are able to grow our business off of our own wagess and off of our own and reinvesting those back in our business and we make no gilbertapologies for it.

thoughts onan, any taxation? thingneed to do the right for the happiness and survival of the middle class. we need to get that money out of those corporations. we have them start paying their fair share. then we can look at funding some of other social programs this there. we need to start with the rich and bring it down. pay enough taxes already. we don't need to burden anymore. with just having it be fair. it be fair for everyone. gentlemen.u, in respect of our time together this morning i think we time for one more question and then we will go to closing comments. so let's talk about social medicare and medicaidr sociald to provide for a safety net, if you will. most will agree that that net is

yearng with each passing inaction by congress. what would you propose to begin to address the problems that we know are coming. mr. mills? questiont that up perfectly. a promise made is a promise kept and we have to keep the promises seniors but have to be cognizant of those programs are reach insolvency in about 20 years. and after eye tentfying the identifying the problem we have to come together solution.tisan we don't need to do to social security and medicaid what the toocratic party has done america with obama care. it has to be both houses of sides of theh aisle putting all options on the table to make sure that we are to make good on the promises to our seniors. as far as medicare is concerned, we have is to look at the underlying medical economy. inflation in the medical economy is killing

medicare. that, we have taken billionlion that is dollars out of medicare to pay for obama care. a anybody thinks that is phoney accounting number or that went to benefit medicare talk to the people in home healthcare industry. they had about $50 billion taken medicare home healthcarend we have seniors that are depending on that. that $716 billion back into medicare because those whateal cuts regardless of anybody tells you. thank you. >> thank you exploration mills. thoughts on your social security, medicare and medicaid? money backto put the in. pulpit we also need to -- but we also need to change that thought that is in washington where they consider social security an entitlement. we the workers built that fund

up. and by god, just because they are sitting in washington that our money. that is our money that belongs get older.hen we medicare is the same way. they sound good but if they are an open door for a bank robber to bank rob all of us. so we need to do the right things. to put the money back. social security is not an entitlement program. of ourneed to let all representatives in washington senate, say no, enough is enough. thank you. you.ank congressman nolan? >> yeah. first of all, i want to reemphasize something mr. sandman has just said here. and that is social security and entitlements.ot they are earned benefits that

thele started paying for first hour, the first day, the first month that they ever went hope andith the expectation that they would live long enough some day to enjoy the benefits. the fact is that nothing has done more to lift more people poverty, maybe in the history of the world than social security. nothing has done more to extend lives of our senior citizens for alling access through medicare. the sing the payer system by the stu. the fact is that social security a $2 trillion surplus in it and in the absolute worst case and that is based on projections. we don't know what it will actually be. but it is good for 20 or 30 years. experts actuaries say if we the lifted the cap on amount that people have to pay their social security taxes on millio millionaires and billionaires pay the same rate

why work men and women pay we would make social security secure ad infinitum. talking about keepingulf options on the table when your wants to turn private axelrod and turn it over to wall street? all my might with and all my strength. and talking about the same case with medicare? turning that back over to the insurance companies where one third of all of our a big dollars go into insurance company profits and senseless costly administration? no, no.no, there are ways we can reduce healthcare costs and there are can protect social security and medicare without over tosocial security wall street. and without turning medicare industry.e insurance we -- we had that once about a time. are badou think costs under the affordable care act

you better go back and read how accelerating the cost of insurance were under the so-called free market system that you embrace. they were much worse and we have it.ix we have to improvement. we to keep moving forward. we have to protect social medicare.nd >> thank you. mr. mills, your response? >> first of all, yes, there have been some republicans this have advanced different ideas but those are not mow. so for representative nolan to attempt to put words in my mouth because somebody some where in the republican party advanced one idea you know what believely state what i and what i will stand for in washington. and -- who said alle one options are on the table. they are not for me. >> sorry. quite all right. theays, can i start over in time? that was rude, but it is understandable. okay. basically i don't want anybody to put words in my mouth because

i want to stand for what i stand will stand for you in washington, d.c. in preserving and protecting social security and medicare. have to be cognizant of the fact this these programs a date of insolvency and we keep kicking the can down the road. thank you. >> thank you. mr. sandman? >> i was kind of enjoying the argument here. wow. you guys are good. [laughter] anwe need -- it is not entitlement program and people feed to realize in washington. to have that affordable in all of the things we talked about here tonight. come back to the middle class people. the office,ed into i will do everything i can can

to keep those costs down, bring that money back and put it back where it belongs with you, the people. thank you. >> thank you. congressman? >> well, i guess -- i get another minute? here. deal will go back to what i said before. to propose to go to washington and caucus with to people that want privatize social security and privatize medicare and it is one to say you want to protect that, but you know, the devils are in the details. idea of protecting it is keeping all options open ofluding the option privatizing both, which is what the people that you propose to caucus with, that should be a little disturbing for people who row lying and counting on -- relying and counting on social

security and medicare and i just submit once again, nothing has done more to lift poverty thanut of social security and nothing has done more to extend the lives and add more life to the lives medicare.seniors than they are two wonderfully good programs, and i have no interest whatsoever in privatizing either will do whatever it takes to preserve them as are. they have never failed to meet an obligation. they is never a year that haven't produced a profit. and they have done so much good for our seniors this i will do in my power to protect them as they are. >> thank you, congressman. let's move to closing statements. and i would ask each of you to limit your comments to two and a half minutes and i would ask the audience to please refrain from applauding until some final thoughts of mine. mr. mills.

start with you. closing comments? >> is simple. we heard a lot here today. who is better to represent our ideals and our priorities in washington, d.c.? with obamao voted approximately 90% of the time? somebody who is f rated by the n.r.a.? somebody we didn't touch on it a whole lot but somebody who voted voted for an energy tax, a carbon tax this would our partthe economy of of minnesota? the number one cost of in mining and expense is energy. that carbon tax that energy tax strangle our iron range. and the same for timber and the industry. a large part of their expenses is energy. the carbon tax. energy tax would strangle industries.d timber ships 40% ofuluth the tonnage in the part of energy.s coal,

that would strangle our part minnesota causing us to pay more and more in the home energy bills. somebody that supports the which of the u.s. rule would cause the e.p.a. to come in and regulate drain tile ponds on our family's farms or somebody who thinks that obama care is a to governmentep run single payor healthcare. listened carefully and listened with open ears, open arms and open hearts and i to your vote and representing you in washington, i trouly believe based on what we talked about here is that i best represent the values and the priorities of this district and i look forward d.c. to to washington, serve you. thank you. >> thank you. mr. sandman, your final thoughts? person and i use

common sense. i'm elected i can walk between both parties. party modeck in the whether it be republican or democrat. you and doing the right things. taxes.g debt.t jobs. environment. is environment with me. talk out thereof that the corporations and the that be don't care about the people.ent or fed by greed. they don't care about you. carearties i believe don't about you. it is about control and power.

care about you. grandchildrenour and their right to life. when i'm elected, i will make my voice heard. that iill do the best can for you. ones that put me in power. you are the ones that put me in the office. go your voice will not unheard. so vote for me, november 4. thank you. you.ank congressman nolan? >> again, i want to thank everybody for this opportunity. thank my opponents here in this race for a spirited debate. pretty clear by is. point what the choice and who you are for. one other little element i would

to it is thatdd is the question of who can get asngs done in washington well? in tee pendent groups -- independent groups raided yours truly in the upper 10% of people introduceble to legislation and effectively get it passed no law. freshman, in aa tea party republican dominated house of representatives that is no easy task. time magazine cited my leadership for keeping us out of war in the middle east. i sponsored an amendment on the knockof the house to $89 billion out of the afghan reconstruction fund. why? that money back home for deficit reduction and rebuilding america. is enough money to financial the state of minnesota for several years and til fund roads, our our bridges. i helped write the farm bill, bill.ter resources i helped -- i sponsored a bill

theake it streamline regulations for manufacturers erssirius creating judgement of divorce good afternoons. legislation to prohibit ourpresidents from raiding harbor trust fund. i passed legislation helping protect the great lakes and the watershed from the invasive species. i secured 3,000 acres for the fond du lac band of the chippewa nation that had been stolen bissetleers following the -- by's settlers following the treaty of 1894. my staff and i have worked with agencies to secure well over 300 million north dakota grants in roads -- $300 million grants for roads, bridges, airports, for the harbors are schools. the point is there is a long earlies. mining executives as well as

ares support my candidacy. energy executives and energy support my candidacy. you know where i stand on all these issues. you know who i'm for. i think people just have to ask who they are for and the decision on who to vote for where.be ease >> thank you. and we will leave this there, be. your you all for participation this morning. we appreciate this opportunity to have a discussion on the issues. chuck thank you and our partner at the duluth news tribune thanks to the civility project folks and the playhouse for the use of their facilities. enjoy the rest of your day, thanks campaign 2014 is bringing you more than 100 and base for the control of congress. you can stay in touch with our coverage by following us on twitter and join the conversation at facebook.com/ c-span.

james coming will talk about technology, privacy, and law enforcement and is expected to discuss how information unencrypted devices designed to increase security may hinder law enforcement investigations. he will be at the brookings institution this morning live it 10:30 a.m. eastern. will, the head of the cdc testify about the government's response to the ebola virus. it will take questions from members of the house subcommittee live at noon eastern here on c-span. c-span's 2015 student can competition is underway on this nationwide competition or middle and high school students will award prizes totaling $100,000. creative 5-7 minute documentary.

videos need to include c-span programming, show varying points of view and must be submitted by january 20, 2015. go to student can.org for more information. in kansas, pat roberts is seeking a term against greg. robbers. the candidates debated at a farm hosted byksn news. live >> from the ksn studios in wichita. now, here is your moderator, darren zito,here are ads running

i will be your moderator tonight. have oneidate will point five minutes for opening remarks of each person will have one minute to answer these questions from our panel as well as a 32nd rebuttal and with 1.5 closing remarks rage candidates, the panel consists of our media partners. we have brian lowery from the what wichita eagle." carpenter, and greg andrews. candidates were not given the questions or topics before tonight and want you to follow along with the climate -- with the questions. we are picking some of the questions tonight to ask the candidates. let's get started with their opening remarks. we did a coin toss before the debates. mr. orman will get to go first. >> thank you to everyone at home

watching tonight. washington is rogan, we all know it. >> thank you and thank you to everyone at home. >> washington is broken. we all know that and we are sending the worst of the parties. they care more about parties than problems. they draw lines in the sand and refuse to cool operate. inaction has replaced leadership. we have serious issues to solve, from stagnant wages to living within our means. i am concerned that if we do not solve our problems, our standard of living and the existence of the middle class is at risk. like a lot of kansans, i have been disappointed. senator roberts will tell you that obama and harry reid is the reason washington is a mess. he is half right. the other problem is mitch mcconnell and pat roberts. both parties are failing kansas and that is why i am running as an independent.

i am a responsible businessman who wants to go and focus on solutions. i will embrace the best ideas wherever they come from. we will start solving albums -- problems again for the american people. >> thank you. senator roberts. >> america is at a crossroads. we are at the tipping point. people know that have a choice to make. they can make the choice between a conservative republican or a liberal democrat who is not shooting straight with kansas voters. what this boils down to is that a vote for pat roberts is a vote for a republican majority in the senate. end the harry reid agenda. end the obama-reid agenda.

and the it gridlock. replace with a stand for with real jobs and growth. my opponent will not stand up to that agenda. he is a democrat. he ran against me as a democrat in 2008. he gave contributions, what hundred $74,000 -- $174,000 to barack obama and hillary clinton. and even harry reid. by deed and by word and by campaign contribution he cannot , stand up to the reid-obama agenda. it is so much more about this election than me. that is why we have had members of the republican party, and endorsement. -- and endorse me because they know that the number one thing is to get a republican majority to end the gridlock. id agenda.he obama-re

>> thank you. >> the first question is from brian with the wichita eagle. >> children have been apprehended unaccompanied by adults. at the southern border. what should the u.s. do with the children? >> before i answer the question, i have to address a couple of things that the senator said in the opening remarks. we have gotten to the point wheref we are making upa -- where we are making up facts. about the levels of contributions i have given and he said traditional republicans for common sense have endorsed me. numerous republicans have endorsed me. we need to pay attention to the truth. in terms of young adults and children at the southern border, we need to address that at the source and go to these countries, talk to the parents there, and let them know not to send their children through the trip through mexico to the united states.

when you get there, we are going to process them and send them home. that is the best way to ensure safety. that is what we need to do, in terms of addressing that issue. >> senator roberts? >> the first thing we have to do is secure the border. the second thing we have to do is -- there was a bill that the house passed that changes the law and says that all other countries would be similar to mexico. if you come across illegally, you have to go back. humanitarian repatriation. the president said that people 16 and under can stay and it led to this tragedy. let's go back to the border. there should not be amnesty. we have 167,000 felons in the united states. we have isis.

we have ebola. we have to secure the border. and we cannot have amnesty. >> we asked about the children. what do we do about them? we can shut down the border. what do we do moving forward? >> obviously, they are working through the system and, obviously, you are not supporting 66,000 children. -- you are not going to deport 66,000 children but we have to secure the border. to prevent situations like that happening again and we can work with the countries to make sure that they understand that they are like mexico and canada. they cannot do this thing again. there are drug cartels involved, as well. >> well, you know, i am not sure what the senator said.

at first, he said humanitarian deportation. then, he said that he does not want to deport them. i am not clear on the answer. i think we need to secure the border. i think we can and have a humane humanitarian -- immigration policy. i hope we get an opportunity in this debate to talk more about immigration because i think it is important for kansas. particularly for western kansas. >> rebuttal? >> there will be no immigration policy as long as harry reid is the leader of the senate. he uses immigration as a political tool. until we have a republican majority, you can consider immigration. all of the stops when you consider that we have to secure the border. it is the rsthe border. it is the first thing. with ebola, isis, or whatever comes across the border, the illegals who are convicted

felons, that shows you where have to secure the border and we cannot support amnesty. my opponent supports amnesty. >> our next question is from dr. bob beatty. >> the next question is from dr. bob beatty. >> what should they meet to qualify for citizenship? >> senator roberts. >> we do not have that. now so we have to secure the border. let me explain. the department of homeland security announced that 167,000 convicted felons have come across the border and are somewhere in the united states. we have no idea where they are.

second, if you are going to deal with the immigration problem, you have to secure the border first. they sent a bill over to the senate. the senate is a place where the good bills go to die because harry reid. will not allow any consideration. the bill did two things. it gave money to secure the border and it changes the law so that every country knows that the same law applies to canada and mexico. illegals, when you come across the border, you go back. if we do that, we can get to immigration. and, all of the complexities. first, we have to secure the border. >> i have talked at length about my policy on immigration. i know the policy needs to be tough, practical, and fair. we need to secure the border. we have increased the number of

security agents over the last years. i think we need to maintain the commitment and it needs to be practical. i don't think we are going to find or deport the people. it would not be economically advisable. there are all industries in kansas, the dairy industry, the meatpacking industry, the agricultural sector would be decimated by such a policy. how do we make it fair to taxpayers? we say, if you are undocumented, you have to register or pay a fine as the egg knowledge of and -- as an acknowledgment that you broke the law. need to hold down the job and you should be able to stay here and work. this is the same plan that republican senators signed onto, including many who came to support roberts. >> rebuttal? >> again, you are not going to

make any progress as long as harry reid is in power. obama has threatened -- it has been reported in the press that he could, by executive order, get another executive order to declare amnesty for illegals. this total immigration policy, that is something that is wrong. it involves securing the border and amnesty. no amnesty before anything else. my opponent would vote for that. >> let's get a rebuttal. >> i do not support amnesty. you have heard my immigration policy. it ends with people who are working to work with rules. roberts wants to talk about the

senate as the place where good bills go to die. the senate is the only body that has acted on immigration reform. republican senators approved the bill and it is not happening. i would also stand up to say that obama should not act by executive action. that is what is wrong with washington today. nothing gets done. >> securing the border, if these people are in the country now, do we need to change the policy? they are going to be working in the system. what would you do with these people who are ready to deport thousands? -- you can't really report thousands. >> i never thought we should deport 11,000 people -- 11 million people. that's impossible. i think we should obey the law or in we should say no to amnesty. my opponent says he is against amnesty. he will say that he did not say that.

>> thank you. regarding foreign policy, the u.s. invasion of afghanistan and iraq, was it justified? yes or no. your preferred response to the new threat? >> in terms of afghanistan, yes. we needed to do something to get the muslim extremists there and make sure they did not have the safe havens to attack again. in terms of iraq, it is now being suggested that we were not as thoughtful as we should have been going in there. we have lost thousands of lives and have had tens of thousands of people critically injured. we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars honoring the commitment to our veterans to

prevent muslim extremists from having a strong world and the middle east. -- a stronghold in the middle east. a vacuum in iraq and a civil war in syria is allowing that. i believe that we need to follow the campaign we are doing and protect the poetic assets on the ground. -- our diplomatic assets on the ground. we need to train the iraqis to solve that problem with our support. >> thank you. senator roberts. >> afghanistan, yes. i worry about afghanistan. if the president repeats what he did, the real mistake is not having a status of forces agreement with iraq. when we left, it left a vacuum. maliki was not the best in terms of leading the country. now, we have a caliphate. we have isis. this goes to a larger problem.

the president has tried to lead by following with national security and foreign affairs. when you lead by following, there is a vacuum and bad people fill it. if you cannot deal with the bad people, it gets worse. much worse. that is where we are today. have a situation where, just today, the president says we are winning with isis. we are not. they are within 20 miles of the airport. we have the big red flag in baghdad. we have 450 members there. we have 150 marines there. before we go any further -- >> ok. >> i'm sorry. >> you have reached your time. let sierra rebuttal and then we will come back to you. >> i did not hear an answer about whether or not we should have gone into iraq.

i believe we might have been overly optimistic to think that we would take able to have been fighting for 15 centuries and form a properly functioning democracy. the war has to change. the war against isis has to do change. it can no longer be considered a u.s. war against muslims. it has to be considered a middle eastern war against extremism. we need to back up allies in the region to address the issue. >> thank you. senator roberts? >> i was going to point out that the president is conducting a war right now. congress ought to weigh in. the president ought to come to congress and explain to the american people. if we are sending more troops into iraq to contain or destroy isis, and there is a bitter debate about what we should do, the president has an obligation to come to the american people and explain.

he has not done that. he continues to stay put. we are losing with iraq and isis. intelligence shows that is dangerous for national security. >> let's go on. it is a social media question from keith. we are starting with senator roberts. how do you think the united states should deal with ebola? senator roberts? >> the ebola epidemic shows you how we should secure the border and not grant amnesty. i issued a statement a couple of days ago. why can we not do now what we know we are going to have to do down the road? we are going to need a team in africa stopping air traffic from west africa to the united states. we should get the best and brightest over to the country as

fast as we can. the world health organization said that if we do not take action within the next 60 days, we could lose 10,000 people a week. a humanitarian disaster. this goes back to isis, ebola, and other problems on the border. we must secure the border and secure the national security of our fellow americans. >> ebola is serious. we need to have a serious response to it. it does include sending the best and the brightest to africa. i also believe we should suspend air travel with west africa for the time being and until the crisis is contained. this was back to a crisis in leadership. -- this goes back to a crisis in leadership. senator roberts has come back and made strong statements about ebola in kansas and a came out

the other day that, when he was in washington last month, he skipped the hearing on the ebola virus. it is easy to talk tough year -- it's inappropriate to talk tough here and, when you have an opportunity to do something about it, you choose to skip a hearing. that is a real problem. >> a rebuttal? >> nothing of substance came of it. theyhearing was held out of session and nothing of substance came of it. there is a crisis in leadership. the president has been behind and a sleep at the wheel. he just said he will have a more pressing program -- aggressive program. it is the president that i think we have to look to for this leadership and we are looking for the plan and the strategy. we have to do that now.

we don't know it yet. >> lacking leadership in washington is on both sides of the aisle. while you did not attend the hearing, it has come out that you did not attend two out of three hearings in the agricultural committee, a committee you want to lead someday. there is a crisis of leadership. >> the next question is from ksn news. a good of you have spent chunk of your a doubt lights outside of the state of kansas and you own homes in other states. please explain your sense of connection with kansas. >> i grew up in minnesota and my father owned a furniture store in kansas. i spent time in kansas working in a store and learning the value of a dollar and kansas values.

i got the opportunity to move back to kansas in 1996 and i took it. ultimately, my friends and family are here. i choose to be a chance in -- kansan. if you wonder where i'm would -- my wife is a law that's lifelong kansan and her mother lives here. if you wonder where i am going to spend my time, it is chances. -- kansas. >> i love kansas. i am fourth-generation. dodge city is my home and i am proud of it. let me say that i have been border to border and corner to corner in kansas. there is no public official that has been in more communities and talking to more people about the issues they are worried about than i have. bob dole jokes that he is trying to catch up with a.

-- me. i know kansas. kansas is conservative. kansas wants answers. my opponent is a liberal democrat. they will not support the keystone pipeline. my opponent is not an independent. >> we do not live in the information age anymore. we live in the misinformation age. you heard misinformation from roberts. -- from senator roberts. i will address that one at a time, if we have the opportunity, during the debate. i senator roberts, you talk care more about the way someone votes. about supporting farmers and you vote against the farm bill. you talk about supporting veterans and you did not have the courage to go to washington to vote on the be a reform bill. -- va reform bill.

i think that's more important and i think kansans know that. >> we achieved the number one priority, crop insurance. in the farm bill. yes i voted against the bill , because, once again, we see farmers farming for the government and not the market. i received the endorsement from the farm bureau and major organizations. they endorsed me and not my opponent. in every case, i am the champion for farmers and ranchers in kansas. >> thank you for your answer. a reminder to voters at home to send us the questions online. you can tweak them to us as well. we may read the question on air tonight. it is back to our panel now. the next question is from brian lowry.

>> the aviation industry has seen a decline in unemployment since october of 2000 date. -- 2008. can the industry be saved in wichita? what role should washington playa? >> senator? >> i sorry. easy stop the aviation taxes. ,this administration and the president and his fatcat corporate jets -- i reminded him of that in the city where his mother's from. 27,000 jobs are involved with regards to aviation. the industry can get along fine. this administration, again and again, puts aviation taxes on the industry. it is not what washington can do for you. it is what they can do against you. i am the champion of aviation.

every time there are corporate jets, i was on the floor and said, sorry, that is not right. we had a personal discussion about it. >> the only person on the stage who has created private sector jobs. i am probably uniquely qualified to talk about what private sector businesses need. i have put forward a small business plan. i talk about rolling back dodd frank regulations on community and regional banks. they were not the people involved in bringing us to the brink of disaster. we should not punish them and industries that serve the aviation industry. we talk about rolling back regulation and having a review of regulation every 10 years. and requiring them to come back for an up or down vote in front

of congress to make sure that the kind of regulations that were imposed on businesses are doing what they were intended to do and not stifling innovation. those are the things we need to do for businesses. in general and i think they will help the aviation sector in kansas as well. >> rebuttal? >> job creation. job creation indeed. my opponent was the recipient of taxpayer money to start the shrimp farm in the middle of the desert. in nevada. the supposition was that people eat so many shrimp contrails -- cocktails in vegas. of which he spent much of his adult life that they would have a shrimp farm in the middle of nevada. that is a grant of $3 million. and i would like for him to explain that. i have the endorsement of the federation of business. i have the endorsement of the

chamber of commerce. >> here is the chance to endorsed this. >> i am proud of my private sector record. i have been involved in investing in over 40 businesses. senator roberts is revealing the fact that he spent the last 47 years in washington because he doesn't realize that not every business succeeds. not every business is a success. if they were, everybody would run a big business and we would all be successful. we run into these issues. i am proud of my private sector track record and i will compare it to the senator's any time. >> we asked roberts about his residency and his personal wealth. how can regular people relate to him? you can find the answers on our website. ksn.com

let's go back to our panel. >> i have a glass-have-full question. the economy added jobs and it is the lowest since 2008. what has the u.s. government done right since 2008? what has the u.s. government done right, and what should it continue to do going forward to keep this recovery going? >> the challenge we have had with this recovery is why we are creating jobs we are not necessarily creating middle-class jobs. i've talked about how we get this country started again. we have to get washington back in the business of solving problems. i can't tell you how many business owners who have said we need to deal with health care affordability. if we could have an honest discussion about how to address health care affordability in this country and change the incentives that drive costs out of the system we would be and a better position to create jobs and see wages grow.

people tell me we need to deal with immigration reform. businesses have suggested they would add jobs if we simply got congress and the president to get their act together and pass some sort of immigration reform. when he regulations out of the -- we also have to get the government out of the way and that's why we put forward our small business plan. it's to help get regulations out of the system and help businesses grow again. >> senator roberts? >> i was going to grant some time back, i have the endorsement of the national federation of veterans. -- of independent business. they represent small businesses up and down the street. -- up and down the state and the chamber of congress looks at your record. we meet with the chambers in kansas. they give those issues to the national chamber.

and they score you on real job growth, less regulation, less spending, binding certainty to -- on providing certainly -- certainty to the the best that we can to the obama reid agenda. they endorse me. not only did they endorse me reflecting the chambers in kansas and small businesses in kansas, they took the extra step of the finding -- defining my opponent and his record of job creation as a liberal democrat. that is what they did. >> would you like to respond to that? >> i've never heard of anyone defining someone record of conservative or liberal terms. it feels desperate. it feels like something that has been the need you to stand up -- that's beneath you to stand up here and represent the facts. i've met with chambers throughout the state. i can tell you from those first 10 meetings that there are a number of chambers in the state that would love to see me get

elected to the united states senate. >> senator roberts? >> name them if you can. the national chamber in their endorsement of me took the extra step again of defining my own as -- opponent as a liberal democrat. it is on the issues with regarding to certainty for business and the obama reid agenda. all of the regulations that come out of the administration. we are drowning and regulations. we have to have so many regulations you can keep up. -- you can't keep up. one former -- one former told we are noter told me being governed, we are being ruled. >> let's go back to our panel. the next question is for the capital journal. >> both of you have mentioned the affordable care act this evening.

i believe you have indicated it is flawed in some manner. how should the federal government intervene in the health insurance market to control costs without restricting access? >> senator? >> number one you are not going to have any repeal or placement of the affordable health care act with harry reid as majority leader. i believe that we should repeal and replace the affordable health care act. my opponent will not do that. he is for amnesty. i am not. he wants to restrict the first and second amendments, i am not. he is against the keystone pipeline. i am not. the list goes on. he is pro-abortion. i am not. these are the kinds of issues that i think the chamber of commerce took a look at and said he is a liberal democrat. by deed, by word, by campaign contributions. on the affordable health care act i think we have the repeal

and replace it. more market oriented solutions. we have to in this assault with -- we have to end this assault with higher premiums, lost relationships, many doctors quitting. the list goes on. not to mention rationing boards in washington. the first step come repeal and replace. you will get that with a majority republican -- you will get that with a republican majority. >> i've said this a lot in this campaign. i believe that president obama and his harry reid are part of the problem. i believe senator, you're part of the problem. you have been in washington for 47 years. during that time the undocumented people in this country has grown from one billion to over 11.5 million. -- one million to over 11.5 million. our debt has grown from under $1 trillion to $18 trillion. in the last decade you voted to support funding for the bridge to nowhere in alaska.

i have been clear from this on the beginning. i did support the affordable care act when it was passed. -- i didn't supported when it was passed. in 2010 i gave a campaign contribution to scott brown who was supposed to be the deciding vote against the affordable care act. the reason i did not like it was because i thought it was expanding a broken system. we pay for quantity in this country and not for quality. we need to fundamentally change the incentives to we can deliver better quality care at a lower price. >> senator roberts. >> my opponent -- [inaudible] -- my opponents friend harry reid and president obama, who we voted for and contributed money to, describe the aca as the first step to national health insurance. that is the wrong way to go. you must repeal it first, replace it with more market oriented solutions.

you will not get there from here unless you elect a republican majority in the united states senate working with e-house. -- with the house. we can do that. the senate has passed bill after bill that would be helpful with regard to replacing obamacare. >> again, as i said from the beginning, i wasn't an initial soap order of the affordable care act. i don't believe it was the right decision. right now what we have is a health care affordability issue. we had it before the affordable care act. we had it today. this is what you see in washington. we talk about how to address the affordability we have taken an issue like the aca and made a

political football. ultimately it prevents them from having to make the hard decisions that we need to make to secure american's future financially. >> my apologies, i'm not sure where that came from. craig anderson, our next question. >> and abortion question. a woman must have an ultrasound with the option of viewing the image, get counseling and wait 24 hours. you agree with these regulations and should ultrasounds before abortions be mandated nationwide? >> i've addressed this issue many times before. what i've said on this issue is that as a man i am not going to have to face the hard decision that women have to face. i trust women of kansas are smart and they can make decisions on their own about their own reproductive health. with that said i think we spend a lot of time in this country talking about this issue and we have spent a lot of time over the last couple of decades talking about it. it prevents us from talking about other important issues. what i would like to see us do is start focusing on some of the big problems that we absolutely need to get our arms around if

we are going to preserve the american dream and our financial futures. >> are you pro-life or pro-choice? >> i am pro-choice. >> ok. >> he is obviously pro-choice. i am pro-life. i think it is that we have to get past this issue. get past the rights of the unborn? get past the guaranteed life for those end-of-life? i don't think you can say that with any degree of conscience, more especially as i'm concerned, the question that was raised is a state issue. federal mandates, i don't know of any federal mandate i agree with with the paperwork and regulations out of washington and taking over states rights. but with abortion, and you have to move past it? i think that is unconscionable. i really do.

>> justice roberts when he was in his confirmation hearing referred to this issue as settled law. i think it is. it is an port in question but i -- it's an important question but i think we've spent a lot of time debating it and it is time to start debating other important issues as well. >> thank you. >> it isn't settled. we had a great fight over hobby lobby. the rights of individual business people to say i'm sorry we are not going to send obamacare because it strikes at -- accept obamacare because it strikes at our religious beliefs. the hobby lobby one. it isn't settled law. not by a long shot. that is why i am proud to receive the endorsement by the national right to life and the cans is right to live. -- and the kansans for life. they support me. they don't think we ought to get past this issue. >> let's go back to social media with our next question.

via twitter, i would like to know the stance on gun control and if you are a gun owner. >> i'm not a gun owner. my opponent supported the harry reid ease of legislation that would have been tearing apart the first amendment. the second amendment. i protector of the first and am a second amendment. my opponent is not. that is one of the many issues that proves he is a liberal democrat and he is not an independent. first amendment, freedom of speech, you should be concerned about that. harry reid's bill would have had congress decide what happens with regards to campaign contributions. imagine that. that was the wrong thing to do.

the second amendment, i strongly support the right to bear arms and am pleased that i have the support of the kansas state rifle association and the nra. >> first a couple of things. the first amendment thing that senator roberts is referring to is overturning citizens united. he doesn't want to overturn citizens united because his buddies from washington have flown in and are spending millions of dollars in campaign ads attacking me in a desperate attempt to allow him to stand office. i am a gun owner. i have two guns. when i bought those guns i had to go through a background check. i don't believe it was intrusive, i don't believe it intruded on my second amendment rights. i support the second amendment. i would point out that what i talked about in terms of ending the gun show loophole is the same long that senator roberts in the past has said he supported.

when he found himself in the middle of a difficult primary and realized that direction his party was heading you change and flip-flopped on the issue. as a gun owner i believe in and support the second amendment. >> rebuttal? >> i am 64 out of 64 on right to life. the nra, i can't tell you where i am. it's probably about 96%. the way you describe that situation i don't think that is accurate. i've always supported the second amendment and i will continue to do so. >> rebuttal? rebutting the rebuttal? you have 30 seconds and you only took i'm concerned we are 15. >> getting rebuttals to rebuttals.

>> we have a full stack of questions and where right on cue. go ahead sir. >> as a gun owner i support the second amendment. i do support expanding background checks to cover gun shows. if you think about what a background check does, it prevents someone who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent subject to restraining order, has been discharged from the military or sentenced to a year or more in jail from getting a gun. those are people i don't want to see having guns. with that said, for a law-abiding citizen willing to go through background check, i support the right to keep and bear arms. >> thank you for your responses. let's go back to the panel. >> kansas ranks as one of the top five states affected by drought according to the u.s. department of agriculture. what role should the federal government play in helping kansas in similar states achieve water sustainability? >> what i have talked about in

that regard, i've spent time in western kansas with folks talking about the awful for and the issues associated with water in western kansas. it is clearly a depleting resource. i think we need to do a couple of things. we need to make sure federal policy isn't discouraging the planting of low water crops. talking to farmers what i have heard is the reason they don't plant is the crop insurance is four times as expensive as other crops. i think we need to look at federal policy and make sure that we are not discouraging the planting of low water intensity crops. we need to lean on the innovation of the farm community. we have seen improvements in irrigation technology and i would like to see those technologies expanded so we can conserve water and ultimately extend the resource that we have in western kansas for agriculture.

>> it's interesting the only federal response we have had from this administration is when the president went out to california and discover the drought. he spent $8 billion for climate change centers. we've never figured out what a farmer would do if he went into climate change centers as opposed to the farm service agency that we have in every county. i represented the first district for 16 years. i come from western kansas in terms of my home. i know what farmers want and i certainly do not want another federal regulation or mandate coming down telling farmers based on water usage what plants, what they should not plant. we already have that too much in the federal government for the latest farm bill that is once again have a farmer's land for the government and not the market. likes i have come out as a small

business owner myself. i recognize that government getting deeply involved in businesses is a mistake. which is why i have my small business plan intended to roll back regulation. with that said we have a crop insurance program and that right now provides for premiums farmers have to pay. if they have to pay more to ensure something they are less likely to plant it. my concern is i don't want to discourage farmers from planting low water intensity crops because they think it would be good for western kansas. >> we just had one heck of a time putting together, saving, and improving our insurance. in the last farm bill. here you go messing around with water usage and telling farmers what they can plant, what they can't, which will also directly involved crop insurance program that we improved.

i'm the father of crop insurance. it was a bipartisan effort. we improved it and saved it in the farm bill rated number one priority. -- it was the number one priority. when we did crop insurance i didn't hear anybody saying somebody could come out with the federal government and say due to your water usage we are going to encourage you to go to a different crop. >> back to our panel. >> let's keep talking about this. washington looks to kansas congresspeople for expertise on farm issues. considering one of you will go to washington, what would each of you like to see in the next farm bill that is not in the current farm bill? >> senator roberts? >> in the next farm bill you're going to have to go over the current farm bill and see if it is working.

in wichita the farm service agency folks are meeting with regards to the farm bill which is headed in the wrong direction. having said that we need a shakeup and understanding department agriculture means a lot and businesses up and down mainstream need a lot. 82% of the funding in the budget goes to snap or food stamps. this a program that cries out for reform. this is another example of where my opponent will not support anything like that because that is a primary concern of barack obama and harry reid. this program has exploded in spending. the cup is only 1%. it is going to cost $800 billion in the next 10 years. we at least ought to stop and think about what we do with that research, greater export row rooms, and have our x boards and

-- programs that have our exports and -- >> let's talk about that when you rebut. >> i think if you want to talk about the food stamp program ultimately we need to see economic growth in this country. when he decreed the jobs where people don't need to be on food stamps. i have talked a lot in this election about how i think we have a new american paradox. how i believe it is harder than ever for the average american to get ahead and yet paradoxically easier to do nothing with your life. i have talked about looking about those programs and asking one very simple question. are they promoting upward mobility or the proviso that promoted complacency? if they promoting in place and -- complacency and independence, i think we need to adjust and improve. ultimately we may need to end them. >> let's are from the senator. >> my amendment would have had

effective eligibility in taking advantage of loopholes. it was defeated by harry reid and the democrats. obama would not go there. that is one of his chief programs. you have to get back to production agriculture and understanding farmer and rancher feed not only this country but a hungry world. 9 billion people on the planet the next couple of decades. our farmers and ranchers have to be looked at and that context can have the usda pay more attention to them and their likelihood than some bloated program that cries out for reform. >> let's hear from -- we took with 15 seconds. sorry. >> i was going to say we need to reform programs so that they are encouraging upward mobility and not complacency. i would point out senator roberts has raised our last debate as the state fair, i got

a thumbs-up from him. apparently that doesn't make sense anymore. >> we've come to the final question of the night from me. you get 30 seconds to answer no rebuttals. essays of thing nice about your opponent. candidate toeach say something nice about your opponent. >> i appreciate senator roberts and his service to our country, in the marines and every time i have an opportunity to talk privately with the senator he has been a gentleman with a great sense of humor. >> thank you sir. >> semper fi -- >> marines take the hill. i would say that you're a well-dressed opponent. [laughter] i admire your accumulation of

wealth, i have a question about how you got there from here but i think that is the american dream. i would hope we can make that possible for everybody up and down every small kansas community. you have a nice smile. and you're for the royals. >> they disagree but they had mutual respect. i believe we have come to the point of the debate where we are going to do closing remarks. let's start with mr. orman. >> thank you and thank you to the sponsors for having us tonight and everyone at home that took the time to listen. thank you to my wife and family for their continuing support. the question we have in front of us is simple. is washington working? if you think that it is i am not your god. -- i am not your guy. i believe the system is broken. i believe sending a senator back to washington who is been there in that broken system for 47 years isn't the answer.

i'm asking kansans to join me in sending a message to washington that the status quo is no longer acceptable. kansans deserve better. we are the country that the man on the moon and figured out how to harvest the power of the atoms. that took computers that used to fill the room and put them on the head of the pen. they can solve any problem that they put their minds together and work together. we will not get that if we keep electing partisans instead of problems -- instead of problem solvers. two parties using more interested in seeing the other party fail facing our country succeed. this election is an opportunity to send a message to partisans of both parties that if you don't roll out your sleeves, solve problems, we will find people who will. it is opportunity for us to send

a message the nation about what's right with kansas. i'm asking for your vote on november 4 to send this historic message and helpless in washington back in the business -- and help us get washington back into the business of solving problems for every american. >> thank you. >> thank you again to ksn. -- president obama said a week ago this election was about a referendum on his policies and his agenda. his legacy. that is true. there is only one way that we are going to stop the obama reid agenda. to elect a majority of republicans. this is so much more about me, it is the future of the country.

they have endorsed me because they know i will vote for a republican majority in the , and the dictatorship and gridlock by harry reid and stop the obama reid agenda. about this time tomorrow night my opponent is going to have dinner in new york at a $5,000 a plate fundraiser with the soros family. going with him is an endorsement by the afl-cio. going to a soros fund raiser, i have never known that family to endorse independents. they endorsed liberal democrats. and so does the afl-cio. >> thank you. thank you to senator roberts. thank you to mr. orman. special thanks to our panel. greg anderson, brian lowry on the wichita eagle.

we will have more on the kansas senate debate at 10:00. remember to get out there and vote. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] ♪ ♪ be part of c-span's campaign 2014 coverage, follow us on twitter and like us on facebook to get debate schedules, video clips of key moments and debate previews from our politics team. c-span is bringing you over 100 senate, house, and governor debates and you can instantly share your reactions to what the candidates are saying. the battle for control of congress, stay in touch and

engaged by following us on twitter and liking us on facebook. " will beginjournal a moment and we will take it -- your calls and look at today's news. the fbi director will talk about technology and privacy and law enforcement. he will be at the brookings institution and that's live it 10:30 a.m. eastern. cdc andhe head of the the head of the allergy and infectious diseases testify about the government response to the ebola virus. that is live at noon eastern here on c-span. coming up this hour, we'll talk the a reporter from washington examiner about the federal response to the bullets that -- in factions in dallas. she will give us a preview of the hearings today.

congressman green will also join us and is a member of the oversight me -- committee. we will also take her facebook comments and tweets. the president changed his travel plans, a second trip for today canceled.