screening procedures put in place by the department of home land security and then the u.s. and international efforts to fight isis. host: this morning, we will continue our conversation about the ebola outbreak. we want to hear from you. the mediaound coverage and lightning or sensationalized? lightning -- enlightening or sensationalized? you can send us an e-mail.

we are going to be talking about media coverage of the evil outbreak. -- ebola outbreak. [video clip] >> unless a medical professional has contacted you personally, fear not. do not listen to the hysterical voices on the radio and television. the people who say and write these things are being very irresponsible. can see on our facebook page, a lot of comments. "the media has been hysterical." usual."yed, like

some of the comments coming in on facebook. is some recent figures. 4493 deaths so far in west africa. one in the u.s. 2458 in liberia. article, bbcnying reports how many people have died from ebola in west africa. it sounds like an easy question, but the answer is certainly not. the most recent official figure from the world health organization posts 4493.

12,000 could be a better estimate. there's a bit of uncertainty about how new people have it. that's how many people have it. confirmed,e up of suspected and probable cases. liberia, sierra leone have some of the worst funded health care systems in the world. the widely reported estimate of 10,000 cases per week by december uses the doubling to account for underreporting. midpoint of our modeling scenarios. if we allow for underreported by 10,000. of two, that's morning, thishis feminism andut

politics. "calm down about ebola, already." she writes

a bit from the column this morning in usa today. we want to hear from you. media coverage of ebola. thomas in kansas. democrats line. caller: holy mackerel. she just said it all. what do you think you will die from in america today? attack, influenza or car crash? for crying out loud. that's just about all i've got to say. i think we are going to die from a car crash more than ebola. host: we have set aside a fourth line for health professionals.

eric in antioch, california. independent line. caller: i think the media coverage is reflecting the public interest, or fear, to a degree. i did not know the cdc did not control everything. a lot of mistakes have been made. in the future, this could be very beneficial to prevent future outbreaks of something else. host: helen is in augusta, maine. caller: i agree totally with the previous caller. this has been an educational experience. i'm a retired health care worker and registered nurse. there are aspects to this story that have been underreported. particularly the impact on health care workers. these nurses who were afraid to speak up.

they had tried to bring information to their supervisors, but they did not have a voice in their training. or the maintenance workers. what happened to the soiled garments or protective equipment? most of which is made in china and effective. there is a lot to be learned. -- most of which is made in china and defective. the state of maine that does not have a public health official appointed. we will learn a lot about how our health care functions or doesn't in this for-profit health care industry. host: eric in rome, georgia. what is your opinion? -- ir: my opinion is wonder where rick perry has been with the.

something comes, they start complaining and they want their big government to come to texas. when the oil spill was in the gulf, they wanted big government. other times, they want big government to stay out of their business. worried aboutmore a.ing from mrs ke them tighten up their protocols. i have a staph infection i caught at the hospital. where is rick perry? bloomberg, u.s. ebola cases may exceeded two dozen by november. there could be as many as two dozen people in the u.s. infected with ebola by the end of the month. willctual number probably

be far smaller and limited to a couple of airline passengers who entered the country already infected without showing symptoms. this is according to a northeastern university professor who runs a computer simulation of infectious disease outbreaks. derek in pensacola, florida. go ahead. caller: i think this is another scare. we've had bird flu, all type of diseases. ebola has been around for what, 30 years? it's another way of them trying -- nothing else to do. there's a story, let's reported. -- let's report it. there are 59 lawmakers currently backing travel bans.

53 republicans, six democrats. next voice we will here is jay in nevada. democrat. funny: i just find it ,hat at every step of the way instead of the republicans trying to help out, the even blame ebola on president obama. it doesn't matter what he does good. unemployment is under 6%. we have national healthcare that 8 million people signed up for. at every step of the way, they blame obama for everything. host: what do you think about the media coverage? i watch the bad news and good news to find out who is telling the truth and

what line everyone is given. we are scaring ourselves into something happening. that's not going to happen. we are not south africa or sierra leone. we are not going to be that. instead of everybody working together, they put out propaganda and scare tactics to make everybody worry about something over three or four people who have ebola. possiblyted from a guy not telling the truth about where he was from. we are not working together to fix it. it's another way for the republican party to blame and separate the united states and the people from the truth. working together to get something done.

host: bill from indiana. caller: i have a question. [indiscernible] host: two headlines from the hill newspaper. u.s. healthe says agencies have all the funds they need. one more story in the hill. nancy pelosi demands hearing on ebola funding. ancy pelosi is calling for return to washington to provide additional funding for the ebola response. sierra is calling in from dundalk, maryland. what is your opinion about the media coverage? caller: i think it's very

informative. i have to disagree with the caller before last. don't think it's too broad or anything like that. if we look at this as a my new thing, and can be something that can be large-scale. the larger health-care workers are being covered, but what about the underdog health care workers? i work with children with disabilities. they can't talk to me. what if their parents are exposed? how would they relate that to our health care workers? host: paul in washington. caller: i don't understand why they keep moving them. , when theye them ,top at gas stations and stuff you stopped for gas between here

and where they took them up to maryland or took that want to georgia -- host: they're putting them on airplanes. caller: why are they showing an ambulance driving on the highway, then? host: this from the associated press.

nearly 900 people were potentially exposed to the virus by the traveler. instead, ebola appears to have been beaten, in large part through aggressive tracking of ebola contacts, with no new cases since august 31. kerry from georgia. what is your opinion of the media coverage? caller: i have some forward looking leadership lessons learned. we understand the difference between a virus and bacteria.

antibodies so we can test for a virus. what we lacktand in decontamination systems. these are lessons we have to learn and make an overlying game plan for the next occurrence. we can contain the virus. we get the leading experts on flu andto detect the decontaminate the planes. viruses.fluids carry not just bacteria. viruses can become airborne. host: we want to show you the report this morning -- they have similar front pages for the last several days. several stories about ebola. here's what it looks like this

morning. next call comes from mary in tipton, georgia. do you think the media coverage of the evil outbreak has been fair? caller: i think it has been sensationalized. the news media has a big responsibility in this country to inform the people. you get these reporters on with their opinions that are off-the-wall sometimes and all they do is cause confusion and frighten the people. i think about the united states trying to fight this terrorism. they look at us and they look at how scared we are and how fearful we are. all they have to do is come over here and do something to us and the whole country falls apart. .t doesn't make sense yes, there is an infection. we have personnel who can control this. news mediaat the

should be reporting. it's a lot of nonsense. why doesn't the government take control of that news media? host: the director of the cdc talked a bit about the media yesterday. [video clip] >> anytime health care workers become infected or ill in this country, it's unacceptable. it is certainly understandable that there is intense media interest. it is new to the that states and a scary disease. and athe united states scary disease. it's important that we pay attention. they think of the possibility of ebola. generate the societal will and resources to both protect americans and stop it at the source to make us clearly safe. coverage may

exaggerate the potential risks or may confuse people about the risks. host: financial times this morning editorial, "the west in adequate response to ebola." the virus will be beaten only if it is checked in the three african states where it remains rampant. western governments are beginning to appreciate the skill of the crisis, but have yet to make the necessary contributions. brian in comes from waldorf, maryland. what do you think so far? caller: good morning.

we have two viruses in this country right now that are a byproduct of the democrats open foreign policy. you look at the kids getting sick drug a country. you can trace that to these illegals coming across the southern border. the hypocrisy of the obama administration in ordering the national guard to liberia, not sending them to the southern border, is absolutely unbelievable. all he wants to do is increase the odds of getting the ebola into this country. this is ridiculous. the democrats open border policy. thele are dying because of incompetence of these democrats and the media is also behind this by allowing this to take place. they are complicit in it. steve king, republican of iowa. here is a tweet he put out after

the hearing yesterday. bill nelson, democrat from florida. matt in georgetown, ohio. media'si think the blown this out of proportion. i would rather hear about isis or the disease killing infants in america. it is not his job -- it's just three people. host: turn down your volume if you get on the air. ,ashington post lead editorial false finding on ebola.

finding on ebola.

monica in michigan. caller: good morning. i think if this disease starts going to, we are all be very sorry we did not have a stronger national health system. left sorry that we let profit be so involved in health care. when we start making health care in terms of dollars and cents instead of controlling disease or treating people, we will never get the quality health people to befor healthy and we are going to be sorry that we have done that, i think. host: do you think the media has

been fair in its coverage? the media tot expose everything. i want to know everything that's going on. i have a real fear of important details being hidden from the public. john in mississippi. veteran.'m a retired i'm 84 years old. i had to take the same oath the president had to take. defenderve, protect and the constitution. has bypassed and overrun the constitution. -- he wasother case

not hired to protect west africans. he was hired to protect the united states of america. i think you folks for taking my call and have a good day. bee in dallas, texas. caller: i think a lot of the , may be on their end, they are being overexposed. done a dallas, they have good job of educating us on ebola. they are trying to diminish it. the lady that said the government should take control of the news, lady, what are you doing? come on.

look back at our real government, such as obama. the data. -- the conduct y can't even afford to live. it is not being flown out of proportion here in dallas -- out of proportion. blown out of proportion here in dallas.

patients and everything. everybody in the medical stay on being told to the down low. have the flu, we advise you to stay home because it can be spread and people can die from influenza, too. host: from the washington post this morning, liberia. 4000 bodyy only has

bags. virginia.st it's good to be on. good morning. agree with the last caller. they should stay home. this is very serious. we should drop nuclear bombs on west africa. host: joe in texas. the only reason they are

reporting on it now is because it's here in the u.s. when it was killing blacks in west africa, it was ok. host: here is the wall street journal. airborne spread is unlikely. while there is no doubt the virus is constantly altering its genetic makeup, scientists are confident ebola has not suddenly acquired the ability to be transmitted via air.

ebola can survive on dry surfaces, such as doorknobs, for several hours but is easily killed. keith is in fargo, north dakota. we taking ouren't hospitals and using them for stuff like this?

corn treating these people. hese people.ing t doesn't.as it and who we should not let anybody into our country or out of our country until this has been taken care of. simple. host: sharon in arkansas. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say that i do believe the media is hyperbolic. the republicans are out of control. they blame the president for everything. this happened at a hospital in texas. via a man coming from brussels. understand why it

is the republicans take into aing and turn it hyperbolic situation, along with the media, including c-span. i think c-span puts out a lot of for republicans and i find it to be sad for our country. host: a couple of tweets we've been receiving here.

here's the front page of the new york times this morning. a protester was outside the white house just in a hazmat suit -- dressed in a hazmat suit. joe in new york. caller: where is helen thomas when we need her? there haven't been any questions? illegals came in from central america. obama brought them here. i have not heard why. why are they here? he wants them here because he brought them here and now he wants ebola here. he wants to bring the ebola virus to america. he could stop at this second. he doesn't want to. why does he want them here? so he can get increased funding

for aid to africa? the press is supposed to ask questions and nobody is asking the right questions. a guy called up and started to criticize obama and immediately your hand went to the button. is the press fair? in tell me host: julia greensboro, north carolina. caller: i agree with the lady that called a couple calls ago. c-span -- you all are blowing this out of proportion. cruz can get ebola, too. host: next call comes from brooklyn, new york. caller: good morning.

what's going on in this country and every other country -- our creator said there is certain things you can't do. the president is not keeping his commandments. no one has a cure for it. we have to stop all this fighting and killing one another. god made everybody in the universe. the government is very crooked.

is a lease and clinton, maryland. -- alicia in clinton, maryland. caller: i understand there is a big outbreak in africa. yes, we need to send every effort to combat it. stop the need to flights. it is here regardless to who wants to politicize this issue. it is here. our children, the people who work here and live here, we are coming in contact with each other. i just want to say that what we need is education. -- people are scared. i have not yet heard any

instruction to anybody to use bleach. clean your house with bleach. put bleach in your toilets. thank you, pastor, for speaking before me. i believe -- i've been in health care for over 43 years. in small portions, bleach can work as some kind of disinfectant. i do know god knows how to be safe.people clean your children with bleach. disinfect their clothing. host: i think we got your point about bleach. front page of the washington post this morning.

chris is in inglewood, florida. i keep hearing the media talk about these nurses getting infected and no one is quite sure how they may have contracted it. i was wondering about why the cdc recommendations were changed in 1998. they were recommending the use of pull respirator protection and now they are recommending -- we saw in the news this morning that carnival cruise line may be carrying a third nurse and they are coming back to port. host: are you a medical professional? caller: my wife is.

host: have you been following ebola pretty closely? caller: as much as possible. host: thank you, sir. this is from the wall street journal this morning. concerns about the dallas nurse who flew to cleveland shortly before being diagnosed with ebola. officials try to limit the chance of spreading infection by those who came into direct or indirect contact with her.

despite the nation white agitation, public health officials preach the message of calm. just because someone may have been exposed does not mean that they are infected. nationwide agitation. mike in little rock, arkansas.

this.: my comment is we are all americans. -- we haveion thing to come up with a solution. i have been nursing for over 20 years and i'm ex military, so i understand what it's like to be at war. why we understand haven't gone over there and extracted blood from the people, check the blood, get every blood type antibody and bring in here and have it ready to go. that's what is saving lives. the blood transfusions. ebola him ant has we are willing to take -- has take, we are willing to

them in arkansas. host: you work in a hospital? have you gone through extra training? caller: not at this point. i was in the situation when swine flu came out. they are taking the contamination equipment off. that's where the errors are appearing at. with the proper training, we can get past that. coming up with a cure and being -- take care of everybody. saying stay away from this person or that person. washington times this

morning. obama's ebola policy questioned as elections loom. would you be afraid to sit next to a person who had been to any country in west africa? 72% said yes. an new york -- in new york. my biggest question is, we are talking about ebola and we have all these terrorists running around. how hard is it for one of these isis terrorists to get a hold of europeanase and send a flight from africa to hear and

and have -- to here them walk amongst us? i used to be a republican, i went to democrat, i voted for obama, but i'm at odds here. they have to stop all these africa.from europe or we need to cut the borders off. this is getting too dangerous. host: front page of the washington times this morning. there is a money column. on big on bonuses, short funding for ebola.

that's in the washington times this morning. here in washington, our next

caller. caller: hello. good morning. things the american government should do is to explain to the americans in detail why the borders can't be closed. government showed americans the borders can't be closed because the world looks up to america. will seeof the world america's actions as genocide. even if the other part of the world does not close the borders -- close the borders to africa, then close the borders to europe.

i suggest the american andrnment takes their time explain these things to the americans in detail. the americans understand why the border cannot be closed. there would be panic. host: from the wall street journal. front page. soldiersand liberian working to build at country's first ebola treatment unit. the unfolding epidemic has killed more than 4400 people, mostly in west africa.

carolyn in fort worth, texas. democrats line. hello? i'm here. host: we are listening. carolyn? caller: i'm here. host: we are listening. caller: good morning. i have listened to several of your comments. my take on it is i feel like you've done a great service at c-span and some of the other news outlets.

by keeping us informed. and educating us as to what is going on with the disease and how not to catch it. was listening to the gentleman who called from north carolina several calls back who said our governor, rick perry, was derelict of duty. i feel like he is, too. us in the area feel like the gentleman, thomas eric duncan, might have been turned away because he did not have adequate insurance. was at the statehouse in austin and decided not to expand medicaid in the state of texas, so people could not go

and purchase health care options. a lot of people are not able to afford the affordable health care because of what they did in december. i'm a caregiver for a sick person. this year, they are having to go through a lot more medical hoops about this and taking care of that. a lot of things they used to get, they don't get this year. that's where they dropped the ball over at the presbyterian hospital because duncan was inadequate when he came in the first time. it might have led to the issue that he ended up dying from. , i think ouray governor in this state was derelict of duty. we believe your comment

there. we will continue this conversation and talk about whether the screening of u.s. visitors -- foreign visitors to the u.s., whether or not the borders should be tightened, things like that, in this next segment with teresa cardinal brown. if you watched yesterday's cdc hearing, there was a bit of an exchange between steve scalise and the director of the cdc. [video clip] >> have you all had any conversations within the white ande about a travel ban whether or not the president has the authority? many of us have said the president does have the authority to do it today. >> we are willing to consider anything -- >> have you considered that?

have you had conversations with the white house about a travel ban? that is a yes or no question. and you had conversations with the white house about a travel ban? how about a travel ban? >> on the issue of travel -- >> have you ruled it out? >> i can't speak for the white house. >> speak for the cdc. maybe they had their own conversations. if you were involved, did they rule out or are they still considering it? >> we will consider anything -- -- is theu answer white house considering a travel ban? have they ruled out a travel ban? >> i can't speak for the white house spirit we have discussed the issue of travel heard -- i can't speak for the white house.

we have discussed the issue of travel. >> look at immediately expending -- suspending bvisas. edve you all consider that? >> our authorities to quarantine individuals require the isolation of individuals. at least looking at suspending visas? have you looked at that? >> cdc does not issue beezus. -- does not issue visas. >> you can make a recommendation to the white house. can you? we would certainly consider anything that will reduce risk to americans. >> "washington journal"

continues. , we: teresa cardinal brown have been hearing about big airports getting screening procedures. what are they doing in those airports? guest: the department of homeland security and cooperation with the cdc added additional string -- screening measures. get the information from the airline those a trip, theye on identify them before they come to the passport control area, they take them to the side and perform additional screening. they are doing similar screenings to what they're are doing in those countries prior to departure. when they identify someone who may have an elevated temperature or other signs, they are

referring them to their quarantine locations in those airports. they have medical staff on call to take them and do additional tests on them. these are procedures that have been put in place to be a secondary step here to the primary screening is being done at the point of departure in those countries. this is a secondary measure that has been implemented at five airports that have the most passengers from this country's. travelers from -- come intoes those five airports. are they trained in screening out people with potential medical diseases? guest: they are provided

training in general to look for signs and symptoms of illness. someone who presents or has a communicable health disease can be denied entry. all cdp officers are trained to look for general signs and symptoms of potential illness. in this case, they happen given additional instructions, additional equipment to look for elevated temperatures. are the cdp personnel wearing hazmat suits? guest: as the normal course of business, they are not. if they do go into secondary screening, they have access to personal protective equipment. there are protocols for when they should use that. anybody who feels the need can. most of this population is not testing positive.

it's not a big concern. we have had outbreaks of sars and h1n1 where officers were instructed in health protection. trained ande been are reminded of the protective measures they can take. host: who can be stopped from coming into the country? guest: any foreign national traveling to the unites states can be denied entry -- to the united states can be denied entry. countrieseling from on the visa waiver program -- permanent residence can be detained and looked at. they are treated somewhat differently. they have additional rights. any for national visitor can be denied entry. on aids atd a ban one point.

it is really only those who have aids. hiv-positive people are no longer an issue there. the state department officers who interview people for visas ask questions about health issues that may render someone -- to fake yourasy easy information or lie on a visa? and lots ofdy can people try to do so. it is not 100% sure and it is in the law that they are looking out for. anytime you have a particular area that has an outbreak of a disease, the consular officers and officerssas examining travelers have a

heightened awareness. they have additional protocols in place and will look for signs of deception. trying tobody is conceal something. that has always been the case. host: how many people have been stopped coming into the u.s.? guest: for health-related issues? host: are we talking thousands? a number of issues, including past criminal issues. there's a small percentage. i guess it's probably in the single-digit percentages. host: 379 because of communicable disease in 2013. guest: a small number. host: the numbers are on the

screen. if you would like to participate, we will begin -- taking yours calls. order stands ebola via closings and a lock. let's go to border closings. sayingf people are travel ban. ?hat do you think guest: it is challenging. we do not have any direct flights from the affected countries. the vast majority of travelers are stopping in europe first. that is the most common transit point. their itineraries taken to other countries before they come here. a travel ban would not be as easy as stopping all flights because we don't have any. we would have to look for individual passengers on other flights that have lots of people of other nationalities. we are also talking about he was

at risk -- nationals might live anywhere in the world. they might be living anywhere in the world and not becoming from those countries. obviously, as we look at the progression of this disease, any government should look at considering this. there are issues and costs for doing it. in general, do we have enough information about a travelers's honorary to know they have come from one of these places? how do we prevent that? we would be working with other countries to prevent them from boarding airlines in third countries. we had heard that he consistently from health-care professionals that they do not believe a travel ban is the virus. government should not rule anything out but should explore what it would take to implement a travel ban. what kind of travel ban?

would it help prevention of the disease? if you are talking about countries in africa, that is a different story. they are closer to the source. they have land borders that they have to be conscious of. hasother thing that cbp said, if you issue a travel ban, people might not travel through formal means. they might use informal means, that is harder for us to track and prevent. at least right now we know who is coming and where they are coming from. we know who we should look out for. host: theresa cardinal brown, what is your background? immigration. guest: i've worked in immigration law forms and doing immigration policy. i worked at the department of homeland security for six years. california.is in you are on with theresa cardinal brown of the bipartisan policy center. caller: hi.

i'm usually extremely liberal but i'm very concerned and upset that profit is involved here. the politics should be taken out of this. we are still speaking about this. he once to give fax nations to people. he does not seem to have a gratitude. i had an on that died sunday in a hospital. away at emergency rooms. and not a direct fight of the disease, it is a disease that makes you stop breathing in dubai, you know, the arab country. the airline flies to lax. we have military bases in germany and europe. his immigration

form. i'm very scared. host: thank you. to be there are reasons somewhat concerned any time of a is an outbreak disease around the world. .e do have measures in place border control is one avenue of dealing with this. strongre very limitations to what border controls can do in a medical situation. for comparison, there was an and otherf mers, respiratory disease in the middle east. we had sars. the h1n1 flu. we've seen outbreaks around the world in the last few years. in none of those cases did we do a travel ban. general, we found that those

things were not terribly effective at preventing the spread. it boils down to what the health care systems are. are the health care systems in the u.s. for dealing patients who had these consents, education of the public about how to protect themselves. and what we can do in the countries of origin. host: the president spoke about a travel ban. which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] -- [video clip] >> if we institute a travel ban, that people do not readily disclose information. they might disclose in broken travel, breaking up their trip so they can hide the fact that they've been to one of these countries. lessresult, we may get

information about who has the disease. they are less likely to get screened and quarantined properly. as a consequence, we could end up having more cases rather than less. host: theresa cardinal brown? some history to show that is the case. several years ago there was a gentleman who had a mu lti-resistant infection who was known to have this. he was issued a travel ban. he ended up driving to canada he ended up flying to canada and driving across the board or to avoid restrictions. we have seen that when we try to introduce travel bans. it tends to force those who are into avenues of travel that are harder for us to track and protect against. in the current situation we are screening people on departure.

we are able to screen on arrival. issuing informational pamphlets to people who are traveling from those areas or he may have risks of what to look out for and what they should do and who to call. it is on our health systems to do what we can. to isolate the individual, contact those they may have contacted, or try to prevent further spread. tranquility tweets in, "isn't this like taking her shoes off? it is cosmetic to make you feel good." guest: there is a sense that we want to show that we are doing something. it has shown that we can identify certain people and we have stopped people. there are limitations. these people are not medical professionals. they are trained to look for

signs and symptoms. who show, individuals no signs or symptoms might still have the disease. they are not communicable until they show symptoms. there are limitations on what border screening can do. that is why we should not rely on that as the sole means of protection. we need to focus on what is happening in source countries and our own medical systems to deal with cases as they arrived. you spent time at dhs. what was the cooperation level when something like this happened with the cdc or with maybe some other public health organization? guest: corporation had been very high. example.he best we had close cooperation between workers and public health agencies. world health organization, other health agencies in other

countries. we had cooperation from the international travel association to talk about how we screen people. think the lines of communication and cooperation have been developed. particularly in north america, between canada, the u.s., and mexico. we had the north american pandemic preparedness plan. all about what we can do to cooperate. the levels of cooperation are very high. that is necessary if we are going to look at containing something like this. host: why is this outbreaks of different? guest: it may be because it is more unknown. it comes from a part of the world that americans are not familiar with. a history of being the unknown disease in movies and entertainment. as well as, it is a terrible

disease to get. way the disease is spread is not as a virulent as sars are h1n1, and airborne illness. ebola is transmitted through direct contact with bodily fluids. it is still an unknown. for a lot of people, what is unknown becomes scary and concerning. as we understand right now, about 50% of the people who contract ebola, it is fatal. that is a scary prospect. host: melinda in virginia. this is melinda. i am a registered nurse. i've been in the military for 24 years. the cdc is a place to do .creening

i can only wonder if this is the training that i recently received, which is nonexistent. pamphletering if the she talked about, i am wondering if those are at a fifth grade level or less, that is what our reading level is today in america. politics should be out of this. this is about the american people. travel should be stopped. the government needs to get their shit together and focus on this country because politics, whether it is democratic or republican or independent party, they are all about themselves and about how much money they can make. the cdc director should resign his position. he made fatal errors. host: theresa cardinal brown? you for your

service. in past medical situations, there's a strong effort on the part of dhs and cdc when they give out informational pamphlets to make it as understandable as possible for the general public. we are also talking about international travelers whose grasp of english may not be great. dhs to't checked with see whether the pamphlets are available in multiple languages. if they are not yet, i am sure they soon will be. in terms of training, i would say that my understanding is p's training has been appropriate as they feel for the issues they are encountering. as i've said before, border areening is -- there limitations to how much it can help control the spread of a disease. bans may help, but as i said, we have had much more weulent diseases for which

have not issued travel bans and we have been able to contain the disease when it arrived in the u.s.. it has secondary costs to the u.s. economy into the economy of these places trying to fight the disease. andequires a lot of detail looking at how we are going to implement the travel ban. it is certainly something we should consider but there are unanswered questions about how successful it might the and how we would implement it. host: daniel come republican line. caller: good morning. my question is, the gentleman i came from africa -- the gentleman that came from africa came off the plane. he went to the hospital and they turned him away. then he went back home and spoke to whoever he spoke to.

what is the government doing on the people he was in contact with as far as when he went back to the hospital. was he around certain people? also, what is the rest of the world doing, the leaders of the this.doing to prevent i'm noticing that everyone is pointing fingers at obama. what are the other leaders doing. that is a human issue. not just an american issue. not blaming anyone of you guys are any political parties. those are questions on more concerned about to work together on. not being angry and calling on the show and cursing or speaking about isis or giving isis an

idea that they probably already have. the other leaders doing? the point, thank you. guest: i am not a medical expert. i cannot speak to a hospital is doing. i will say that from the point of view of border control and border screening, when there is a person identified who might be a candidate or perceived to have a health issue, there are protocols in place to provide additional notification. they do what is called contact tracing. they look at that person's travel history and they can identify people who may have been in contact with that individual. and examined them, give them information about what they could do. as to the second part of your question. how does this being dealt with in the rest of the world. countries in africa are imposing

their own restrictions on travel. and a lot of that is land-based travel. particularly nigeria, which is a hub for travel in africa. the world health organization is involved in trying to deal with the outbreak in west africa. president obama has called on other european leaders to provide aid and assistance and medical personnel to the affected areas as the u.s. has done. i think we are seeing world leaders come together to try to address this. the issue really becomes what can be done in the countries where this is happening now. host: jackson, tennessee, good morning. one thing i see -- great to speak with everybody -- it is not so much that we -- can you hear me? host: go ahead. actuallyt is not

putting a travel ban. i agree with you. people will start sneaking into other countries. flying in from canada. there are so many other ways to do that. i agree. at least we can get a contained by actually seeing the people we .ave even in liberia, they need to tighten up their borders more. in our southern borders, if we tighten them up we will know who is coming into the country and know what they are bringing. guest: yes. as i said and as the president indicated, one of the things we are concerned about is when you start preventing people from traveling, people who are desperate will find other ways. the president spoke about breaking up travel. we have no direct flights in the u.s. from these countries. most of these are connecting

from europe. if they are connecting in a short turnaround time and the airlines believe it is a single trip, the u.s., when we get passenger information from that leg, we also get information about the previous parts of that trip. if travelers were to stay a few in their transiting country and fly on different airlines, that breaks at the travel in the ways that mean we may not get complete travel .nformation from the airlines there are nationals of other countries in those areas. knowing who we need to pay attention to is important. host: theresa cardinal brown, is europe doing something different than we are doing? is canada doing something different? can speak to canada.

they are looking at the travel. they he a similar situation. they do not have a lot of direct travel. we are in close communication with canada about how we are conducting screenings. canada is considering it. i do not believe they have implemented it. i'm not sure what the europeans are doing in terms of screening travelers. they have a lot more travelers coming from those areas. i suspect that at the urging of the airlines and others they are doing similar types of screening. most countries are relying heavily on the in country predeparture screening to prevent travelers from getting on the airline. we involved inre other countries? are we at the other and getting our customs -- guest: right now we have about 12 or 13 locations around the world where officers are in foreign countries conducting preclearance.

throughl clear someone customs and immigration before they travel to the u.s. most of those locations are in canada. the locations will receive the same training as the cbp officers here. they will work with canadian health officials. we have locations in ireland as well for european routes. and we have officers that our liaison officers in other parts of the world to work with airlines and host country customs and immigration officials. there is a lot of international cooperation and consultation going on. i am sure right now that those decisions are in constant contact with their counterparts about what is the next step and what are we doing. host: have we ever implement travel ban? guest: not in recent history that i'm aware of. not for medical reasons. i will say that. host: tracy, thanks for holding.

you are on the air with theresa cardinal brown of the bipartisan policy center. caller: good morning. bipartisan policy center. yeah, right. -- hereyour position on in southern california, we get communicable diseases -- tuberculosis, scabies, measles. my kid misses a week annually because of these diseases. he is immunized and he gets a physical once a year. actually twice a year. get these low grade because ofe diseases political and policy decisions by homeland security, customs -- host: what are some of those decisions that they make? caller: essentially, just an

example. come up from have central america. some are being placed in schools. public -- how do we know the musicians, what the records are, the illnesses? it has been well documented with measles, scabies, tuberculosis, whooping cough. the policy decisions that affect american taxpayers. host and thank you. theresa cardinal brown? guest: under immigration law, there are restrictions on who can come in legally with who may have a communicable disease. and a lot of this is undocumented immigration. certainly when individuals are apprehended by customers and border protection, they also

have protocol to ask about and look for potential health risks and diseases. recentthat with the coming of the unaccompanied children and the families through the texas border, one of the things that was done at detention facilities where they were held it was to do medical checks and have medical people there to do them. immigration and customs enforcement, which operates the immigration detention systems, has a medical corps. an overall issue when we throughigration that is means that are not legal. we are unable to do those kinds of screenings. of the discussions in the larger discussion about immigration, which is can we do more to either final immigration

.hrough legal channels what can we do to prevent further undocumented immigration and what is the regional expense to do so. we require medical certificates for some of the diseases that the last caller mentioned. guest: anybody permanently emigrated to the u.s. must undergo a medical exam by a certified medical officer. if they are overseas, someone contracted with ac/dc. there are authorized physicians n the u.s. for those coming on temporary visas, there is not an automatic check. if there is a question, they can be referred for screening in their home country or upon arrival in the u.s. they can be rejected.

host: patty, tennessee. can you give me? host: barely. go ahead. caller: i actually -- [indiscernible] host: the connection is so bad. youet your point that are for the traveled and. we are going to move on to melinda and washington, d.c. you got it turned down the volume on your tv. on the phonerough lines, terror and down the volume. charles in woodbridge, virginia. couple comment a s. the first, not only should the head of the cdc be fired, there should be lower personnel fired as well.

be laughable if it weren't for people's lives at risk. travel a lot. i literally travel all over the world. u.s. amazing how inept the try portsare, our en are. we are so far behind asia, who deals with sars, all kinds of influenzas. -- one thing that day to that they do, they have carpeting that you walk across that has disinfectant to stop foot and mouth disease. one of the most important things that would help us with ebola is that every single person who comes into that country through that airport, they are being thermal by several cameras. the airport personnel are watching anyone to see if anyone is coming in with an elevated temperature. they do not have to do that by

individually checking anybody. you walk through these checkpoints and you turn around and it is masses of people coming through. anyone with an elevated temperature is going to come up with color. they can pulled him aside and ask them questions. we do not even need to go to that level. guest: we do not have the same systems and other parts of the world. there are several reasons. the u.s. has so many more ports of entry than most other countries in the world. we have hundreds of places where international travelers come in, fly in or through land borders or seaports. our airport system is mostly run by airport authorities that are regulatedl or directly by the customs and border protection's officials. has authority within federal inspection areas of the airports.

should we be looking at additional means of screening people for communicable diseases? issues thatof those we need to look at from a cost-benefit analysis. what is the cost of implementing such a system versus the risks we have. we've been through several fridays of international disease have been-- we through several varieties of international disease outbreaks. one is an individual tragedy. we have not seen major outbreaks. some of this comes down to what are the costs that the u.s. can additionalement screening systems. what impacts we would have on international travel and how effective is that in protecting us? host: in your view, theresa cardinal brown is the cbp and funded enough to do what

they need to do? that is not an easy question. said, is there more they could be doing. to do more, they need more funding. are they funding for what they have to do, customs and border protection have said they do not believe they have enough cbp officers. in terms of additional technology and infrastructure improvement at ports of entry, that costs money as well. up to congress to decide whether those are investments worth making. host: melinda in washington. caller: kudos to the cdc, teresa informationhe great she's given us. i'd like to say that we need to stop. i wee -- regardless of

, republican.cf we need to stop the fear. congress needs to find medical system so we can be ready for these diseases. kudos to the president, kudos to cdc. they done the best job that they could. they are doing a better job. we need to make mistakes and we move on. guest: with regard to your last point, that is true. with every situation we have encountered -- sars, h1n1, we have learned. we have learned to better coordinate. it isd agree that impossible not for us to make some mistakes. it is important that in this learn.on we also it sounds like cdc is looking at what happened with thomas

duncan. cbp is examining protocols daily. the groundpeople on and saying what is happening and how are you feeling. it is a continual, iterative process. like with most complicated things, there is no magic bullet that will protect us. there is no magic look that will the short-term. we have to look at what we are doing every day and what more could we be doing. who has the authority to initiate a travel ban? guest: if it is a health-related reason, cdc would be the first to make that determination. ,t would be implemented by faa tsa, customs and border protection, dhs. guest: cdc could make that determination. next call from dave in

texas. guest: thank you -- caller: good morning. , if you do note want to get shot, do not stand in front of a gun. looks like what cdc is doing is setting us up with a loaded weapon that can be shot. the borders not being secure and the flights should be banned until they get a handle in on the situation that is getting out of control. look at the southern border when all the children were coming. them tohelped smuggle the rest of the country. jeh johnson is sitting here and they shut down everybody. host: any comment? guest: i will say what i've said before. in terms of a travel ban, since we don't have direct ways of people to come from these

countries, we would have to be working with other countries receiving direct flights. coming through flights where we can identify people and track them and screened and they are trying to calm through covert means to the u.s., that is a lot harder for protects and deal with. carefule half to be that whatever decisions we make do not drive people into those routes. over we have less control entry and tracking done and being able to protect ourselves. host: richard, indiana, make your comment. caller: thank you. first of all, this is a wake-up call. host: is that all you want to say? caller: no. we have porous borders. thinking that we can close them is naive.

inevitable.s we need to realize that. it is necessary to maintain a global economy. the worst thing about a pandemic is panic. quarantining a nation is creating a petri dish. we need to get people in there so we can contain the disease. stopping the spread has to be done on a global basis. guest: thank you. i would agree that medical officials who have experienced pandemics say that dealing with the issue at the source is the most effective way. we can't when we identify cases to track contact and protect those people who may have been exposed is the next step. the limitations of

our borders and protecting against disease are significant. we need to be careful that we do at put too much faith in border scheme to protect against disease that may and up making the situation or worse, being very expensive and ineffective. host: what, combined with increased screening, which you talk about, what else could work? said: most experts have that right now the disease is mostly contained in west africa. to the extent that we can deal with the disease at its source to prevent further transmission, that is less people that can transmit it to other people. immigration an perspective and a border perspective, it is can we work with those countries on their screening before people leave.

on protection of the borders within that region. before we deal with anybody at our shores. that is what i would say. host: theresa cardinal brown, bipartisan policy center. thank you for being with us. turn. our attentionto the modern warfare colonel john -- colonel john nagl, we will be taught me about his memoir. ♪

>> this weekend on c-span. tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, from the texas tribune festival. a conversation about dealing with undocumented youths coming into the u.s. saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern, a town hall meeting on the media's coverage of events and ferguson, missouri. harris stowe state university in st. louis. sunday at 8:00, richard norton smith on his biography of nelson rockefeller. tonight at 8:00 on c-span2, on drones.ttle j call. on the practices of the collection industry. sunday at 2:00 p.m. eastern, the 2014 southern festival of books.

tonight at 8:00 on c-span3, martin luther king's poor people's campaign and the 1968 election. saturday at 8:00, the life of booker t. washington. on realfternoon jointa, from 1964, a armed forces readiness operation between the u.s. and iran when the two countries were allies. find our schedule at c-span.org and let us know about the programs you are watching. call us. e-mail us. or send us a tweet. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. campaignf c-span's 2014 coverage. follow us on twitter and like us on facebook. to get debate schedules and ,ideo clips, debate previews

c-span is bringing you 100, house, and governor debates. share your reactions. control offor congress. stay in touch by following us on twitter and liking us on facebook. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us on "washington journal" is retired colonel john of the u.s. army. headmaster at haverford school in pennsylvania. how do you go from being a kernel in the army to a headmaster? it is not as disparate tasks as you would think. i am running an organization with lots of young men. i'm educating them and training them. toefully inspiring them lives of meaning. we say we prepare boys for life. in a lot of ways, those are some of the things you do as an army

officer. host: you were a career army officer but you are also a best-selling author. guest: best-selling is kind. i am best-selling among doctrinal dissertations in international relations, that is a very small group. coming out of west point, i earned a gross scholarship and went to oxford. i thought in desert storm, which was a big change. the army decided to send me back to oxford to get my doctorate before sending me to teach at west point. it was at oxford reflecting on my experience in desert storm that i became convinced that the future of conflict was going to look very different in the war i had been a part of. i started studying counterinsurgency in 1995. i wrote the best and the worst

doctoral dissertation written, it was the only one. time getting it published because counterinsurgency was yesterday's news. it was vietnam. i literally got rejection letters from university presses asking why i did not focus my talents on something with more relevance. it wasn't until after september 11 that i was able to get it published. recentthe best and worst book on counterinsurgency. when counterinsurgency became important again, it was read by dozens of people. what convinced you during the first gulf war that counterinsurgency was the wave of the future. guest: i learned that american confessional military superiority -- i learned that militaryconventional

superiority was so great that they would have to be crazy to fight us like that. it was reflecting on an army training experience i had almost exactly a year later. at the army national training center in california. the army plays in intricate game of laser tag and we were to fight tank on tank battles. a group of rebels crept up on us from behind and killed all our tanks with light weapons. the juxtaposition of those two experiences. fighting a conventional enemy and defeating it hands down. that being defeated in simulated battle made me think that i needed to think about counterinsurgency. attend tohe pentagon counterinsurgency?

it was not then? having written the book on , anderinsurgency observation by lawrence of is messy and slow like eating soup with a knife. province in 2003 and 2004, the same ground where isis is making gains. we had not been trained in counterinsurgency. i never had any army training on counterinsurgency until about a iraq.for we deployed to it was all tanked on tank warfare. we were engaged in simulated tank on tank warfare when we got a call and said turnaround, we need you in iraq fighting a different kind of war. the army learned slowly and really relearned

lessons it had learned in vietnam about how to conduct counterinsurgency effectively. or four hard years of fighting. thousands of casualties. we made the world worse in iraq before we turned around and made it better. one of the reasons i wrote this was to try to capture those lessons and make sure the pentagon does not forget the painful lessons of counterinsurgency that is paid for in blood twice. fights," brand-new book out by retired colonel john nagl. is isis a counterinsurgent movement? like you thinkng they should as a counterinsurgency? guest: it is an attempt to overthrow a government. case, the governments in

syria and iraq. it is a cross-border, multinational insurgency. from arawling adherence number of countries. it is a very difficult and complicated insurgency. it is so powerful that it is no longer fighting with gorillas terrorists -- with guerillas and terrorists. it is strong enough now but it is fighting as a conventional force. it is an insurgency using conventional time netactics. it is stronger now than the folks i fought against, certainly the sunni insurgents in al anbar in 2004. host: what they consider

themselves to be counterinsurgent? are fighting a government in iraq and syria. the have taken extraordinary step of calling themselves a state and acting like a state. collecting tax revenues across the portions of syria and iraq that they control. a territory the size of maryland. they are refining and selling petroleum on world markets. they have accomplished extraordinary things in a brief period. it is hugely painful as a veteran of the fighting in iraq to see that territory that my friends fought for, following a gens into the hands of a radical insurgency. host: colonel nagl, are we fighting isis in a conventional

way? presidente ends the has laid out of defeating and destroying prices are correct. do that,e intends to using iraqi, kurdish, and free syrian army forces on the ground with american air power and intelligence in support, i think that is also correct. theproblem i see with president's current strategy is the means he is providing, the meager number of airstrikes -- seven a day in iraq and syria combined. to the current unwillingness and that american advisors with iraqi and kurdish units is making it difficult for the u.s. to achieve its stated objectives. host: 1300 personnel over there. where are those 1300? largely in headquarters units. they are in baghdad. some of them are at the baghdad

international airport, now in artillery range of insurgents. we have apache helicopters in anbar that we are using. to the pointclose of the spear. they are not with the iraqi and kurdish units fighting isis. in my opinion, we need to push those guys forward. that does mean they are going to have to accept more risk. it almost certainly means that some of them are going to get hurt. better to do that now quickly, blunt the momentum that isis has an push them back from baghdad international airport. do not allow them to shut down baghdad international airport and stop the extraordinary media narrative that isis has right now that is attracting recruits from around the globe. isis is now the most dangerous terrorist organization in the world. it is more dangerous than al qaeda. host: here's a recent editorial

colonel john nagl wrote for politico. you recommend even more than military advisers, boots on the ground? as we say. already have more than just advisers. we have apache helicopters that we have used. in an escalation of the war efforts that i agree with. rubicon.rossed that we are engaging in direct firefights with isis forces from the air. from attack helicopters, which is different from airplanes. i believe we need to multiply the number of americans on the ground by a factor of about 10. because our advisers are so good, because our air power is controlled with americans, but our air power is not nearly as

effective as it could be. when we put american advisors on the ground, the tempo of air operations will increase. and the caliber of our opposition is not really that good. isis has been cleaning up against a demoralized iraqi army that is not well lead and not well-equipped. i believe it is comparatively easy to change that within a couple of months and 10,000 additional american boots on the ground. i strongly recommend that. sooner rather than later. host: something you write about in your new book, your experiences during the first gulf war and the iraq war. how are they different? guest: it would be hard for them to be less similar, given that i was using the same vehicles in both places in exactly the same location a decade apart. my first war, conventional tank on tank war against the conventional iraqi army of saddam hussein, was physically

difficult. it was dangerous. but it was not very intellectually difficult. we used air power, artillery, and tank iraq weapon -- tank direct weapon fire to defeat an enemy that mirror imaged us. we shot at tanks that did not look like ours. a decade later, i could not tell you my enemy was. i was blindsided continuously by snipers. by martin and artillery fire, by rockets. and mostblesome of all fatal of all, improvised explosive devices -- roadside bonds. that the insurgents in guard and underneath roads and trails. killed 23 of and the young men in my task force. the first war, i knew who my enemy was. the hard part was killing him.

my second war, i did not know who my enemy was. the hard part was finding him. host: why the title? first book is "learning to eat soup with a the process by which the americans and british learned counterinsurgency. it was a doctoral dissertation. it was in theory how counterinsurgency worked. this is a story about practicing counterinsurgency. very close range against an enemy who had to get very close to us and did so protected not by armor but by being cloaked in the sea of the people. they were fish swimming in the sea of the people, to use mao's phrase. the fighting was in close range. the harder fight was helping the army, the department of defense, the u.s. government understand this war.

a war it had not prepared to fight. a worry had not trained its people to fight. we engaged in- bureaucratic knife fights to change the way the u.s. military understood warfare. host: john nagl is our guest. for republicans. 202-585-3880 for democrats. independents.or talking about modern warfare. tying that into his new book and has experience in the middle east. we will begin with a call from donald in alabama. you are on the air. caller: as far as the isis is a morphing of what is happening in the middle east for thousands of years. we will finally defeat isis.

they will morph into something else. they have conflicts going on in .ibya iran is trying to develop nuclear bombs. we would be far better served, perhaps better served -- although we cannot leave the place -- if we could get our east.out of the middle i want to ask you something you may not know. about a conventional or nonconventional war against major powers. specifically the u.s. versus the chinese. do you think we would match up with them? defense, do you believe -- when will they achieve a balance with us? three great guest: questions.

we tried it leave the middle east. iraq at the end of 2011 and pulled american troops out despite having spent more than $1 trillion setting up the american government. 5000 american lives and more than 35 thousand wounded, many grievously. invading iraq was a mistake that you ares some passions talking about in the middle east. a smaller but critical mistake was pulling american troops out of the end of 2011. will bee that it generations, we will see generations of warfare and unrest for a number of reasons that i talk about in "knife fights." these are the kind of wars we are going to be fighting, not a conventional war against china. there are a number of reasons for that. nuclear weapons put an upper limit on how far great powers are willing to go in conflicts. the extraordinary conventional

superiority of the u.s. military, despite the real damage being done to it by , the decision to cut spending on the department of defense, which i believe is a grievous self-inflicted wound on the military capabilities on the u.s. that is going to costu us. innocent people are dying as a result. and the u.s. are economically linked to an extraordinary degree. depends on american markets. the u.s. depends on chinese manufacturing. china holds aliens -- china holds billions, trillions of dollars in u.s. debt. were a war to happen, the u.s. could cancel that debt, that is a huge disincentive to china. china is pursuing some regionally aggressive actions. it is flexing its growing power.

surpassed the u.s. by some accounts in relative purchasing power as the largest economy in the world. i personally see almost no chance for a war between china and the u.s. as long as the u.s. maintains its conventional, particularly naval and air capabilities, in asia. i'm concerned that those are being unnecessarily diminished by the sequester that is limiting the funding going to the department of defense. we need to change that. york,seneca falls, new republican line. you are on the "washington journal" with retired colonel john nagl. yes, sir. turning i.t. down. welcome back, sir. thank you for your service. to serve as a that of vietnam.

whenreally irks me is politics gets involved in wars. let the generals run it. we would not be in half the problems we have. another thing with the isis, we need boots on the ground. we also have got to give the kurds more weapons so they can fight. they want to fight. if we would supply the weapons to them and turn them loose, i am sure it would help out a lot. with all of those points. i will modify one of them. thank you for your service in vietnam. a long, hard work of its own. politicians that should allow generals to run wars. it is the job of the politicians to find the right general for the right war. one of my favorite books on the civil war is titled "lincoln

finds a general." are equallyrals competent. some have skills appropriate for different kinds of war. i believe our performance in vietnam started to improve when westmoreland was replaced by general creighton. thew improvement over course of the iraq war, leadership mattered. that is one of the reasons the politicians it should choose their generals wisely and leave the conduct of the war up to them. to president chose not whenw military advice choosing to withdraw troops from iraq at the end of 2011. and is now not following militaryadvice -- the

has suggested it would be far better off if we put advisors with iraqi and kurdish units. were we to do so, we would see a rapid turnaround in the fighting. it would be good for iraq and good for the entire middle east. invalid -- wer have to be that narrative now because g hotties are flocking ies are flocking to isis. aboutar more concerned the danger of foreign trained jihadis with western passports than ebola. host: napoleon famously said all my generals are good. give me once were lucky. a general petraeus was both good enough and lucky enough to take advantage of the sunni awakening

, the decision of several sunni tribes to switch sides and fight against the iraqi branch of al qaeda. he was a remarkable general, a remarkable man. vietnam whentudy he did his own doctorate work at princeton university. counterinsurgency very deeply. i was privileged to work with him on rewriting the marine corps counterinsurgency, which we published in 2006 just a few months before he took command of the effort in iraq. a fairly extraordinary event in military history. lucky.s was he was fortunate that most of the american units he had to served inin iraq had iraq during the early years when

we were not very good at counterinsurgency and were denying there was an insurgency in iraq. how toly did not know defeat the enemy we were facing. the invisible enemy. general betrays his predecessor said the counterinsurgency todemy on the ground in iraq train american units coming in -- the traceraq had a better it will with which to work. an army that understood -- the trays had a better -- bu petraeus had a better unit with which to work.

host: pam is in louisville. caller: i would like to say the last few callers you have had, i agree. on, what you are saying. i just think the people need to be more concerned about isis than ebola. i want to commend you and i am going to get your book. thank you for those kind words. thank you for honoring the legacy of your father. of livingd memories

next door to foreign box -- fort knox. i could not agree with you more. perhaps onehreat to dozen americans. i could not agree more that ebola is not that strong. i'm much more concerned about the radical infection of islamist jihad being spread over the internet, which is girls, goingitish to syria and joining the jihad, joining isis. an organization that has a message that powerful and so nefarious -- isis was thrown out of al qaeda for being too violent. this is a scourge on humanity that is going to kill more

people and do far more damage than even ebola has appeared host: kerry in ohio. -- terry in ohio. caller: you are a most intelligent man. like you, i'm a veteran of the vietnam war. i trained at fort knox. i would like to open up the possibility -- since you recognize isis as operating as a state come in 1934, franklin delano roosevelt recognized the soviet union as a nation. it took us many years from the october revolution in 1917 to recognize the soviets as a state. why wouldn't the united states , whichze isis as a state would change the political ramifications of pursuing them?

we recognize them and then we have a state we can declare war on and we haven't open the legal -- weound the politics have an open, legal way around the politics to go after them. guest: thank you for your service as well. the president has all but declared war on ice is already appeared -- on ice is already. -- on isis already. you can be at war with a nonstate. we don't want to give isis the legitimacy by recognition as a state. that would be an analogy meant -- acknowledgment that they have control over a territory. we dispute that right and we intend to take the territory away from them. i believe the president has the right strategy, but needs to

properly resourced that strategy and give his generals what they needed to a cop wish the task in front of him. thanks again for your service. -- what they need to accomplish the task in front of them. host: as a former tank platoon commander, how much did you need to know about foreign policy and u.s. policy in the middle east? war,: more in my second and the counter insurgency campaign. i needed to know more than i did know about the history of sunni and shia islam. about tribal relationships inside iraq and the history and balance of power between the sunni and shia in iraq. i had to understand how the kurds fit into that situation and understand the broader contours of u.s. relations with

iran. iran supporting with weapons and intelligence and fighters, supporting the shia forces inside iraq. the sunni forces supported from a number of countries throughout the middle east. to fight a counterinsurgency depth of you need a cultural, political and economic understanding that is together why the counterinsurgency field manual suggests it is the graduate level of war. not tank tank on tank warfare is not hard. airstrikes and building a better piece in the aftermath of war is all difficult. between the two wars i fought in , the counterinsurgency command knowledge degree of

of a wide breadth of knowledge. in 2006 and the update came out last year. army andgn, a sign of what weorps looking at did and revising it. not going to do what we did after vietnam. we are starting from a much higher level of knowledge now. you can go to book tv.org. there is a search function. type in nagl and you will be able to watch it online. jason in hannover, maryland. a comment for john nagl.

soner: i have a 10-year-old who has a great fear of ice is inviting the united states -- isis invading the united states. how would you explain it as a threat to a child? i know there has been a lot of discussion about boots on the ground. no special operations forces are going to be required. i know we are stretched pretty thin. what do you think the capacity is for americans to assist in this fight? host: why is your 10-year-old fearful of an ice's invasion -- isis invasion? caller: he watches c-span quite a bit. we apologize for

that. guest: there is little risk of an isis invasion of the united states. in new hampshire, you are likely to be enormously safe. the risk of isis is attracting people with western passports and training them in jihad and they are going to be enormously difficult with those western passports for us to track. that, am afraid of is mujahedine afghan became the breeding ground for , it became people's way of life. jihad university. is going to become jihad university for the 21st century. what your son needs to be and what theut

department upon that security needs to be concerned about is isis trained personnel with western passports coming to the nine states to conduct -- the united states to conduct attacks. it is much harder to use airplanes today than 13 years ago. there continues to be vulnerabilities inside the state. damagests could do real and set off a scare in the united states. much stronger than the current ebola concern and much more dangerous than the ebola concern. about special operations forces is very well-founded we don't have enough of them. we are wearing them out. they are exhausted. advocate the

creation of combat advisors, standing combat advisors, peoples who job it is to do the foreign internal defense mission , one of the seven special forces missions. we don't need to train these combat advisors to the high level in all of those tasks like green berets. provide anmust advisory force for the united states. i last job in uniform, trained combat advisors for the iraq and afghanistan conflicts. we will need more of them, not fewer in the years to come. not just in iraq and syria. the philippines and afghanistan. host: gary in tennessee. go ahead with your comment for john nagl. and thankod morning you for your service.

, should we have gone into iraq to start with? should we have taken hussein out? control.things under i engage in this debate at my school. i have a wonderful english teacher who served in vietnam .nd has enlisted in the marines he and i argue over the lunch table per to regularly. back to desert storm, my first war, we should have yielded to saddam hussein's iraq and completely stayed out of the middle east and let it fester and let it make its own bad decisions. i disagree with him on that. i don't believe the united states should have allowed

saddam to continue to own kuwait. that would have set off a cascade. desert storm was a necessary war and it was conducted effectively. i have a very different opinion about the war in 2003. i believe that war was unnecessary, even if saddam hussein did have active weapons of mass distraction. he still could have been deterred from using them. states can be deterred. non-states, isis having a weapons program. in addition to the second gulf war, that invasion being unnecessary, it was also poorly conducted. we did not have a plan.

we intended to topple saddam hussein's government but did not have a plan for what to do afterwards. we did not have a plan for what that government was going to be. that fault is absolutely excusable. -- inexcusable. the only purpose of a war is to build a better peace. for iraq. have a plan it took us a number of years to figure out what the plan was going to be. enormously difficult and costly. figuring out something we should have already known before we invaded iraq in march of 2003. you --his tweet for guest: we certainly did not finish the job when we pulled out of iraq. -- isis istiate isis a repeat of al qaeda in iraq.

spinoff of al the pro-teamcame we were fighting against. they did not like us and they were fighting against us, but they were a class a team. the big leagues were al qaeda in iraq. a much more capable force. ropes, all on the but defeated in iraq in the fall of 2011 and we made the bad decision to pull our troops out of iraq. if we had that 15,000 advisers in iraq in 2012, they would still be there today. the iraqi army would be much more capable.

the kurds would be more capable. isis would not own any territory inside iraq openly. servedorces would have as a check on the worst maliki,n influences of who allowed his prejudices and led him fears of a coup to fire the capable commanders of his own forces and replace them with shia who have proven to be cowards in the fight against isis. leaving a small force of american advisers in iraq in a 2012 would have preserved that peace and build a better peace in iraq. we would not have isis creating that u in territory americans have bled for print host: jerry is down in tampa.

--ler: we did not get that why is it that the kurdish women are willing to fight isis but the iraqi men are running away ? that's embarrassing. guest: let me address the question -- a status of forces agreement. a legal framework that guarantees the safety of u.s. troops against legal prosecution in the country in which they are serving at the request of that country. we had these status of forces agreements. we mishandled the negotiations with the government in baghdad over the course of 2010-2011 in our temps to get that status of forces agreement.

insisted it be approved by the iraqi parliament. enormous we difficult vote for any iraqi parliamentarian to have taken. hard it isind how for treaties to get past through the u.s. senate. an army that had invaded the united states tuesday in the united states for the indefinite future -- to stay in the united states for the indefinite future. we could have found a way around that. we have well over 1000 u.s. boots on the ground in iraq right now without a status of forces agreement. the kurds are an interesting and fascinating people. i believe they are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own state to call home. the kurdish homeland, the territory occupied by kurds includes a major portion of iraq

and turkey and iran. the kurds desperately want to -- want a state of their own. they have not had the protections offered by a state, so they grow up really tough. i have been impressed by the kurdish women. women with whom i serve in combat, 15% of our fighting force, we could not have made it through the last decade without their contributions. women fighters is one of the best answers to isis. there is extraordinary propaganda in pointing out that women are as tough and as capable as men and can fight for their own freedoms. i would love to see the iraqi forces fight with the valor the

kurds have shown. fight seen iraqi forces with valor when they are well supplied and well-trained. right now, they are none of those things. that's why i strongly recommend adding more american advisers. host: woodbridge, virginia. republican line. caller: good morning. thank you for your service. i was a vietnam vet. cong that struck us hit the airfield assets, but they did not hit the personal areas. in 1968, the gloves came off. another concern i have is with the afghan officer corps. two guysco, there were

trying to get into canada and they went over the hill. four more recently at westover electro these -- guys try to get into canada. -- four of these guys try to get into canada -- tried to get into canada. i think the afghan officer corps is going to dissolve like a piece of wonder bread in a glass of water. it really troubles me. i think we ought to fight terror with terror. utilized foreing sabotaging ammunition stocks. fifth isis steals some ammo , plant c4 rounds in

there. an americanaw edition of the stars and stripes on the cover was a conflict of convoy of toyotas. where are they buying these toyota trucks? guest: i share your concerns about afghanistan. if any good could possibly come out of the debacle that has resulted from withdrawing all american troops from iraq, it should be to change our current policy, which is to do the same

dam thing in afghanistan. if that happens, we will provide another homeland for terror. the taliban will retake large portions of afghanistan and we will back there -- be back there. need to combat advisor core. we need 15,000 americans to stay in afghanistan for the next 20 years. americans who think that ifnot a wise investment, ground is important enough for americans to bleed to take to establish a better government, it's important for us to stay there. we are still in japan, italy and germany. 60 years after the korean war, we are still in korea. we are still in the balkans.

when americans fight a war, it's important for us to stay there. a mistake we learned after the first world war. the vehicles you describe that come fromols and owns a number of places. some of those are captured from iraq units or supplied by iran. the middlepening in east right now is a proxy war between the sunnis and shia being fought in a number of different countries. none of those places more very e virulent than rea syria and iraq. the current iraqi forces are --en leadership to train

they are not going to be able to do it without more american help. host: paul in montana. -- ir: you may laugh at my have a question and a comment. you may laugh at my question. i appreciate the fact that you entire adult life in the military. your service is appreciated by me. i am a vietnam veteran. i only spent a year in the air force, but i consider my service to be valid and honorable. i was discharged honorably. of all the efforts we have been , whating on making war effort have we made to make peace with people?

i heard a few calls back you gave advice to a man who had a 10-year-old son who was worried about isis coming here to attack us. rather than advise this and be a to be a child 10-year-old kid and play with -- i finds and such that rather disturbing. a 10-year-old child it should with the worries and concerns of adulthood until he gets there. host: we are running low on time. guest: i was that 10-year-old i appreciate your comment. i was that 10-year-old child, sadly. i don't think c-span had been admitted -- invented, but i

would have been a c-span junkie. point of being a parent is recognizing who they are and letting them be that. i think there is a balance we have to find. i wish my son watched more c-span. your question about waging peace, using more resources to promote peace is a very good one. i believe some wars are necessary and all but inevitable. i believe that was the case in the invasion of afghanistan after the attacks of september taliban, when the refused to hand over those responsible for the attacks. tohink we had no choice but invade afghanistan an attempt to defeat al qaeda. we have done a good job against al qaeda central. the problem is we made mistakes since then. invading iraq in 2000 three, pulling the troops out of a rock

at the end of 2011, not arming the moderate syrian rebels in the summer of 2012. regains allowed jihad to its strength. al qaeda has passed the torch to isis. i am afraid the enemy this evoked, we did not ask for this war in the first place we were attacked on september 11. i'm afraid the young 10 year old watching c-span is going to face the results throughout his lifetime of this, what is going to be a decades long war against radical islamic extremism, and it is getting stronger now because of what is happening in iraq and syria. host: finally, this tweet for you. do we need a human army to fight wars anymore? guest: we very much need a human army to fight wars. we have made extraordinary progress with drones. drones have allowed us to essentially dismantle al qaeda

central inside pakistan, an undeclared war inside pakistan. that has been extraordinary echo bushman of the last decade and more of war. that has beeng -- an extraordinary accomplishment of the last decade and more of war, that we have managed to defeat an emmy force in a country we did not have to invade. drones cannot do everything. they are insufficient to take on a force fighting in a conventional manner as isis is now in iraq and syria. i strongly believe we need 15,000 real human boots on the ground. they will use drones and modern technology to multiply their effectiveness. everarfare is a human and -- endeavor. it will remain a human endeavor as long as there are humans. host: here is the book. haverford school headmaster, retired army colonel john nagl is the author.

about half an hour left of the "washington journal" this morning. we are going to open up the phone lines. we have talked ebola issues, military issues, we have local issues to discuss. public policy on your mind. there are the numbers. dial in and we will be back to take your calls. burner.a bridge -- i'm a bridgebuilder, not a bridge burner. i have them over for dinner so i get to know where they came from, i get to learn about the families, the work they did before they came to congress. muchis why i have had so success working with republicans to pass legislation that has been beneficial for iowans. when the iowa national guard came home from iraq and was denied benefits for g.i. bill benefits and hardship pay by the pentagon, i worked with republicans from minnesota to get their orders changed so they

got paid the benefits they deserve. deniedhad a constituent aba adaptability grant, i helped him get that so he could stay in his home. i had him come to washington and testify in front of the veteran affairs committee and introduced a bill so other veterans would have the same benefits because the program was going to expire. that is what iowans expect from their senator. somebody like senator grassley and harkin who can bring people together, not drive them apart. >> what unique thing is there that sets you apart? >> i would say i am a public servant. i have served in my community. i have served my state and nation in many different capacities. worked with many different volunteer organizations at the community level. i still serve as a sunday school and confirmation teacher in the church i grew up in, so i remain committed to my hometown and home communities. but i have also served by state and nation in the army reserves

and iowa army national guard. i don't do these things for personal gain. i do them because i believe in serving the public, whether it flood in eastern or western iowa, whether it is during storms making sure iowans is safe -- are safe is important. i have also served overseas in combat in kuwait and iraq. i believe that is important. but soundbites to have consequences, and i believe i have a pure heart willing to serve iowans where congressman braley behind closed doors has poked fun at our senior senator chuck grassley. i don't call that building bridges. i would say that is burning bridges. >> we have more questions. >> i did not poke fun at senator grassley. she knows i talk to msn dan apologized to him and iowa farmers -- she knows i talked to

him the same day and apologized to him in iowa farmers. if you're questioning my peer heart, i can tell you i have been an elder in my church. i have taught sunday school to adults and children. i have never sina corporation sitting next to me in the church pew. you believe their interests outweigh those of women and iowa when it comes to contraception. >> very misleading. i have said i will support a woman's right to contraception. what you say behind closed doors doesn't matter to iowans. maybe you did -- what you say behind closed doors does matter to iowans. maybe you did apologize to senator grassley. i contribute to my community, state, and nation and am ready to serve the people of fila. -- of iowa. >> if you want to talk about closed doors, tell us about the meeting you had -- bit ofou are watching a video from last night, the iowa

senate debate. bruce braley the democrat, joni ernst, the republican. ruse braley was in washington yesterday at the ebola hearing. he spoke there and then flip back to iowa, had that debate carried live on c-span. campaign 2014 and c-span, we will be covering about 100 debates around the country. gubernatorial, senate, house debates. you can see them all on c-span and on our website www.c-span.org. live coverage on election night as well, so keep us in mind when you are looking at election related events. republicans, the line for democrats, and all

others. i don't understand why i could not get that out today. let's hear your views on public policy issues going around in the country. robert is in marion, louisiana, democrats line. caller: how are y'all doing today? i like to listen to your show. i want to address the guy that was on earlier. he is pro war hawk. theught to be advocating draft so he can draft these 10 year olds watching c-span and put them over there and let them go head on to fight isis because the only way we are going to get our army strong enough to beat these guys is to get the draft so everybody can have him on the fight. will have everybody in on the fight. wanting tohat was on

apologize for mr. grassley, he needs to apologize to the public because they are not supporting the president on the thing he is doing. they will eventually blame the ebola episode on president obama when this has got something to do with everybody in the world. we need to get a serum so we can cure this virus going around. it is very scary. host: robert, thank you for calling. the chief isimes," stepping down after 4.5 years. has 60,000 employees in security operations at more than 150 airports in the u.s. nni onrom baltimore is so the independent line. caller: this is the issue i want to touch on. one is the ebola issue. ebola with anthrax and every

are -- everything else things the government has put out for population control. they have a satellite so they can control the weather. a lot of people don't even know about it. they have population control. they have [indiscernible] control. host: you see ebola as a purposeful population control? caller: yes! economical population control that has gone on for many years. there is always a government cover-up. i am not. see theorist. -- i'm not no conspiracy theorist. host: where can those of us interested find the same information you're sharing? caller: the library, government files that are public record. city hall. everywhere. host: all right. 1999, theyce 1998 or

have been doing a military realignment because they know warfare is coming against china, russia. they are all coming. they are all in notes for the united states -- cahoots for the united states. the united states led generals go years ago because they were doing human research. that is when anthrax came out because they were the ones that created anthrax. there is a lot of things going on the united states does not put out there. they want to make it seemed the united states citizens are the ones that are crazy. eventually there's going to be martial law. that is why there is homeland security. the medical reform. if you believe medical reform, it says all those that apply have to be barcoded.

host: what do you do in baltimore? what kind of work do you do in baltimore? caller: it does not matter what i do. it matters what the united states government has been putting abroad over united states citizens for too long. host: thank you, ma'am. joe is in prichard, west virginia. caller: hi. you gave her a lot of time. i would like to have a little of that time. miner,retired union coal and i am disillusioned with all this work. -- war. come to southern west virginia and look at what has happened. we are a colony that funded the industrial revolution, and we are at the bottom of every list in america even though we are one of the richest states in the united states. there has been almost 2 million of mountain destroyed down

here to provide coal to provide electricity when it is not necessary. you cannot fish out of any of these streams in southern west virginia or most of the state of west virginia. 125,000 union kohlmeier's -- coal miners. today you have less than 8000 in all of west virginia coal production. we spend $1 trillion in iraq. we build schools, roads, water systems, bridges. why did they not invest that money in america? the gentleman who was on prior said the cut defense under sequestration. there is so much waste in the u.s. military and in the defense department, and everybody knows it. we are building things never used before they become obsolete. we need help in america. we don't need to be taking care

of aramco and the oil producers of the world. we need to invest in america. we need to convert to clean energy. if you don't believe what cold does to america,, and look at seven west virginia -- come and look at southern west virginia. host: robert? caller: good morning. the man before is very right pretty lady before him is very right, everything they said . i like the way you cleverly cover the line when lieutenant younel nagl was on because never announced to was:, democrat or republican. calling, democrat or republican. you should have. is al qaeda. everybody knows this. if you don't know what, i am

letting you know. obama is just as guilty as president bush. they keep supporting these people. everybody wonders why isis is growing so big with the help of saudi arabia, turkey, there helping assad. this has been going on and on. it i see what is going on with ebola. they are trying to make a big everybody can be scared instead of handling the problems that need to be handled. that is what i would like to say. thank you. host: robert in bridgeport, connecticut. this is peter from new york on the republican line. caller: unfortunately, i came in late with your interview with lieutenant colonel nagl. i agree with what he said about the second goal for, that it was an unnecessary -- but the second gulf war, that it was unnecessary. i agree 100%.

you had john negroponte and someone else who both stated will was not the reason we invaded iraq -- oil was not the reason we invaded iraq. for many years, i had people argue with me that is the reason we went in. to do not believe that. i do believe president bush used the 9/11 attacks to go into iraq trade because i believe he was pressured by evangelical christians and the jewish lobby to take saddam out. if you recall during the 1990's, saddam was paying suicide bombers $25,000 to their families to blow themselves up in israel. be thent analogy would way netanyahu before isis took was, mr. netanyahu was coming here all the time and his associates to convince the

united states to bomb iran. i believe that is why president bush invaded iraq, because the weapons of mass destruction. there was no al qaeda in iraq either. host: ok, peter, we got the point. going to show you two headlines. this was an interview by james komi of the fbi, he is the fbi director. we covered that session on c-span. you can watch it online on www.c-span.org. also want to point out the deputy attorney general is stepping down. he is the second highest ranking official in the justice department, and he is stepping down. ralph is in washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. just two quick points. one as i used to vote republican but i cannot do it anymore. the student loan

issue. if you want to refinance credit cards, no problem. if you want to refinance your car, your house, no problem. but they have got these kids over a barrel with student loans. for some reason the republicans are opposed to allowing the kids to refinance to take the burden off these kids. $150,000 orrying $75,000 in debt. irony is pathetic. nailther thing that is the in the coffin for me when it came to republicans is i have been reading science magazines and journals for 30 or 40 years. global warming is real. the disinformation campaign, it is $1 billion a year. republicans get three times as much funding from the oil companies, six under $75,000 per senator from the oil companies to disavow global warming.

. global warming is a crime against humanity. now, a billion people will start starving to death. thank you. host: next is jason in quincy, illinois, independent line. jason, you are on "washington journal." caller: i wanted to make a comment for colonel nagl. he said the sunnis given trucks by iran. the sunnis have never gotten anything from iran. he also mentioned the insurgents were sunnis. what had happened is america paid the sunnis to stop fighting and promised them land after they left. now the sunnis are fighting for their land again that was taken from them from world war i from british and france. sunniskes him think the

are not going to stop fighting until they had their caliphate? one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. thank you. host: from page of the "financial times" this morning. google overtakes goldman sachs in u.s. political lobbying stakes. $ 1.4 million spent on political donations by goldman sachs. $1.4 3 million already spent by google. rob is in new york and he is a democrat. caller: yes, how do you like the fact that in the face of the theing ebola threat, republicans want to kill health care? isn't that ironic? oh, god. goodbye. host: pete is in windsor, connecticut, and he is an

independent. caller: you just had john nagl on. he has no credibility. military assistant to paul wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense. i just want to say we will never win anything in the middle east as long as aipac and israel dictate our foreign policy. host: you think aipac and israel dictate our foreign policy? caller: absolutely. our 8% approved congress is owned by israel and aipac. host: where do you get your information, pete? caller: that is, knowledge. anybody with half a brain knows it. that is the problem with this country, they don't have half a brain. host: a couple of calls. in new york in the poll that is out. wisconsin governor's race is all

tied up. mary burke and scott walker tied up. if you want to get the most recent polls, here is a source for you. you can see will be carrying the debate live at 8:00 tonight between mary burke and governor scott walker. two men to c-span to watch that c-span2en -- tune in to watch that. this will give you all the most recent polls. it has other information. you can go to the latest polls rate there it is. robert is a republican. i want to point out in the united states there are over 35 terrorist camps. what is to keep them from opening the gates and letting out the soldiers?

host: wait a minute. on our soil there are 35 terrorist training camps? who is running these terrorist camps? caller: i don't remember the guy's name. one of the radical imams from overseas. there is a book called "twilight in america" that talks about everything going on occluding the possibility of a debbie indeed they are trying to build up their. it is all over the country. what is to say these are not trojan horses? they are not arresting them because they are not breaking any laws. they are no go zones. how do you know what is going on there? next up is charles in silver spring, maryland. caller: i have a couple of concerns about what we are doing in this country now. it is almost self-destruction. peaked when it seemed there

was a large group of people trying to destroy the president. it may be normal politics. i think when you get to a war situation such as we have now, we need to all be on the same side. but we are still trying to destroy the president, our health people, internal revenue service. i don't know why we can't get together at least during the war. second quick point is if we keep fighting wars, we are going to go broke. that president reagan tried to break russia because he cap building stuff and russia could not keep up. if we keep finding new wars and in europe and japan, one day we will be a very poor country. host: thank you, sir. you probably know all about the fan situation with the florida debate. this is a different take on it.

this is terrence mccoy writing in the "washington post." #fangate.about he writes one of the stranger moments of my reporting career arrived at 6:00 a.m. on the day in late 2012 in st. petersburg, florida. i was doing a profile of florida governor charlie crist --

that is in the "washington post if you want to see the full article. howard in miami. that is quite a gubernatorial race you are having down there. caller: yes it is interesting. that "washington post" would waste important news space to talk about charlie crist sweating or not. i would hope for better than that from the "post." if you will allow me a moment, i

will try to get this in a sissy clear as possible -- so singly inctly as possible. there are important things the media does not address. demographics have been studied in this country. the minorities are going to be in the majority. that has serious consequences for the republican party which is primarily a party that addresses the issues of the white population, the white majority. they have a business plan. because of the nature of the party to deal with that. in 2008, an african-american gets elected 35 years too soon. the worst nightmare is happening 35 years too soon and he out raises mccain. god forbid what he will do in the 2012 election when he runs for reelection after being president for four years, especially with mccain-feingold in effect. that problem is solved by the

five republicans on the supreme court who got mccain-feingold, corporations are people too and they can contribute as much as they want for political purposes in secret. to understand how bad that is, you have to read judge john paul stevens' dissent. moving fast forward. using all this money and the strategy outlined in an article in "the new yorker," they sent a republican operative like ed gillespie from north carolina who work for a republican billionaire. with everybody running for the legislature -- host: howard, get to a conclusion. the conclusion is they now control the statehouses of florida, north carolina, virginia, west virginia, iowa. host: don't go through all the states. caller: they control the u.s. house of representative's the next year because they use them to control the statehouse. host: is that your final word?

caller: my final word as they introduce legislation to change the way the electoral college works. if people want to follow you or read what you are reading, where should they go? caller: i wrote it. if you want, i would be happy to send it to you. host: you can if you would like. thank you very much, sir. steve is in the comic, texas. you have 30 seconds. caller: i love this country. i have been upset by the lack of leadership or intelligent leadership our country has adopted all of these impossible feats of climate control. one thing and another. there is a huge division in our country politically, and religiously, and socially.

i'm trying to think of the word. through cosan one race to be pitted against the other -- causing one race to be pitted against the other. we are all made in god's image. host: thanks for being with us. we will see you tomorrow morning. >> "washington journal" continues. [captioning made possible by espn, inc.]