to do it. >> how did watergate change each of you personally? >> it brought me to this room. were i would never have had the pleasure of being. it makes you kind of a celebrity . [laughter] >> somebody -- somebody says to take your work seriously but not yourself. there is some truth in that. through the

watergate exhibit which we have , it islittle bit factual, this happened -- i have often said this and often but if richard nixon had had one strong lawyer mr. president knocked this crap off. you can't think and act like hand, there other are so much, such a mentality that drove them that maybe it was unstoppable and maybe the person who might say that would for the ovalwed

office to communicate that message. think always an watergate in your chronology and the exhibit shows that if one thing did not happen, everything after at least in terms of being disclosed, disclosure hangs on the most fragile, thinnest of threads. repeatedly by myself, withholding judgment, and case it turned up the other one. i asked that -- how is history going to judge the iraq war? officeding in the oval has his hands in his pocketsj

and unthinking i'm finally going to get this sob out of here and i asked how do you think history will judge the iraq war? history, we won't know, we will all be dead. >> he is ducking the question, but we don't know how -- >> that begs the question. in your work on the president, have you changed your mind about a president over the course of investigating? certainly, i went through a sea change. it is much easier, just as is my nature to ask questions find out

what happened. curious, and your conversation with president ford, if he imparted to you a feeling if he knew you were involved directly -- >> the question is whether ford knew or suspected that he lost the jimmy carter because of the pardon -- yes. but we don't know because there was a pardon and it was part of the effort. talk about the nixon-ford didn't iation -- >> just read something about how american opinions have changed and now there is a sizable 70% majority that approved -- >> of the pardon? >> yes. >> i think that's right.

>> that was not true when it was much closer. my name is laura and i work on the paper at the university. what are your, thoughts on the media and government's reaction -- >> wikileaks. neither one of us is the world's leading authority. >> but now i'm going to pretend i am. [laughter] >> i don't dare. it is important that they classified documents that were secret only and what the , thosedor thinks documents rarely get to the

white house and don't get much standing in terms of the decision-making by the president where in the obama white house, the bush white house, how much is controlled. people will make claims that wikileaks are the sort of documents that tell you how the big decisions are made in government. that is not the case. time it is useful information, of the initial idea of the wholesale publication of hundreds of thousands of classified documents -- you would never do it, you would say read them. we going to tell somebody about secret operations and get people killed unnecessarily? you were always in panic about

that. wikileaks is kind of being more careful now. wikileaks probably won't go down in the pentagon papers do and will always. >> i have a three-part question -- >> just one part please. [laughter] did nixon have interests -- >> what were they after when they broke into watergate and to true to the president have a hit list and what roles did labor unions play? >> no knowledge of labor unions. i don't have a clue what they were after or what they thought they would get. i think the testimony of the

burglars and others, as you know, it was a general fishing expedition to get dirt on the enemy. don't you think that is the best -- >> they all testified to wanting something different. >> it all comes under dirt. >> find something that will give us leverage against -- >> imagine the decision to go ahead with that, breaking and entering. i don't think that will ever happen again -- [laughter] >> i hope not. we have to talk. [laughter] >> he has been trying to ask a question for a while. >> after you reached such a pinnacle of excellence at a young age, have you suffered a letdown afterward? [laughter]

back? hard to come interesting, did i suffer a letdown after watergate and so forth. about tell you the story how paul simons who is the this was after nixon resigned, it was about lunchtime and howardroom simon's office had these glass pane celebrities so that people could see who is meeting with the bosses. simon would say come on, so i came in. page to thet open new york times and said, see that, that is you.

and i looked at it and it said , died, won the pulitzer prize in 1941. [laughter] that's me? see that guy, 1941, it is now 1974. ever hear of anything he did since 1941? said, -- >> he didn't like you? >> i think he liked this ass out, now get your of here and get back to work. >> one story he tells that tells you something about him, there both thee when i had head of the cia and the head of

the fbi in my office at the same time. woodward could not stand it. it,ad not heard about didn't know what the conversation was -- it was not so important that i've now forgotten it, but one of my favorite times in life is to remember woodward -- i have a tall glass window on the newsroom, woodward walked in front of it this way -- [laughter] all during the conversation. i don't know how many of you remember robert penn war and, but he wrote "all the king's men

" and some wonderful poetry afterward and i was at an event where he was being interviewed and this very smart professor named harold bloom, turned and convinced that you had reached as and if 15 years ago and would not write again, what say you? said, i'm happy i didn't know you 15 years ago. i think that is part of the response of people who say you did well at a young age. it's all over now. it was one of his best summers after that. another question? reception ofour david frost interviews of richard nixon? >> grandmother frost interviews of next and? -- remember the frost interviews of nixon?

>> they were pretty good. >> there was one interview about ,arl and myself and nixon says they work for "the washington post." a liberal newspaper. politics and washington, that's the way it is. said, what they write is trash and they are trash. i was sufficiently disturbed to call my mother. that's what you do in moments , did you see these sharp things he said about carl bernstein and myself and she said, yes, but you know that is

washington, that's politics -- [laughter] and one of the things nixon had "thewas that we work for washington post" a liberal newspaper. it is washington, it is politics, what is this about being a liberal. >> come on up. >> oh great. >> hello. the you think nixon was a good president? think nixon was a good president? [laughter] think, it turns out he was a terrible president, but after , his presidency was so , that hey what he did

couldn't save our rescue his reputation. after watergate if you can i think inise that, certain foreign situations he was ok. how old are you? you have a job in journalism. [laughter] that is a great question. this is the judgment question. factually -- particularly from the case, there is so much of nixon on that paste -- page. there is anger, and rage and the regular ordering of illegal and abusive activities, you can go here it, i brought some examples

problem was what presidency,ing that and i agree with ben, some very poor accomplishments are included but what happened in the presidency, you listen to the tapes and it is always about nixon. it is so often using the power of the presidency to settle a score. so and so, let's put him on the tax audit list. toy have the secret service bug their telephones, nixon got the secret service to bug the -- the secret service that is supposed to be a protective agency. barkede dog that never

on the tapes, i have not heard them all, you don't hear the say, whator his aides would be good for the country? what does the country need? what is the next stage? sense, maybe the tragic part of the nixon presidency is its smallness. on manydid not reach goodwill,t sense of people feel whether they are republicans or democrats, -- i have seen it for decades -- that there was this anger and this , theurity and as a result office was diminished because they were talking about so many small things when they should have been talking about larger things. could you speak a little bit

about john dean? >> what about them? [laughter] clout john dean when he broke dean and whenjohn he broke rank? >> he was the white house counsel and blew the whistle on nixon early. >> nobody likes of whistleblower, and he certainly wasn't very popular and government -- i didn't know him well. was he good at all? price, as you say he was of whistleblower. that thisout -- theny was proven

details, it was quite remarkable and he did not know -- he had the nixon and the highest disregard. i spoke with the nixon senate are a couple of months ago and they invited me to speak their and nixon hands were there, and -- the only person who will not invite here is john dean. >> the last question. bernstein sold your watergate archives for what, $1 million? theirind of stuff is in that is waiting for historians to find? >> what is in the watergate

papers in the university of texas is how we did it. , and insee the trail one interview summary says something and then the next a one of his going to somebody else and making phone calls and putting the pieces of the puzzle together. it is a pretty large archive , or contract of the university of texas. we maintain the files of people that were still alive. later this week we are going down there to do some symposiums with academics and with robert redford who did the movie "all the president's men." we are taking a bunch of files of people who passed away and there is one in particular, you can't say until later, but

people will be surprised the extent that this person helped us on the second book we did on show how days, it will people at the very top of the administration felt disappointed, felt a sense of inevitability that because of what went on he was going to have to leave office. some people felt the sense of inevitability very early. than a year before the resignation. it is a kind of how to rather than what happened, and then you see people's real language and exactly how we undertook everything. >> any concluding thoughts? i'm not good -- i don't write

editorials -- so, no. all thatimpressed by you are still interested. , i don'tlong time ago think there is another historical -- how long ago, 40 years? >> almost 40 years. -- you show a detailed knowledge that is very impressive. i think that is fabulous. it is an interesting story and it still is. the president of the united states getting his you know what and a crack like that -- in a

crack like that. [laughter] >> i mean, holy moly. >> in conclusion, tell us a little bit, this question came from the theater, you have been thinking about watergate lately and have you come up with a new formulation? >> let me make it very quick. mentalityte or the that was nixon and the people around him, a series of wars. the first war was when nixon took office, he inherited the vietnam war. anti-vietnamke the protests, it was a mounting

movement so he declared war against the antiwar movement. of usual techniques following and wiretaps and so forth. the press was out in the second war recording -- reporting extensively on the vietnam war and the antiwar movement so they tapped their telephones of 17 reporters and 1972,house aides, then in what they did was the burglary, because it was the fury that the press was publishing the pentagon papers. in the third war -- nixon is running for reelection and the apparatus that had done the other burglary was directed at

the democrats because they were a threat to nixon staying in office and the vietnam war. occurred and it was the fourth war which was the war on justice, the orchestrated, well-funded cover-up, denial of what had occurred. was after nixon left office in 1974 for 20 years of his life, he conducted a war against history to try to minimize watergate to say it was a blip, and to avoid confirming what was in his own words and dozens of hours of tapes, and to a certain extent the sixth war was fought here at the nixon

was,ry where the question how are you going to deal with watergate? tries tonalist who let'sake neutral inquiry, find out what happened, what the thes are, in that sixth war professional historians and archivists have said we have to deal with reality and that sixth war is the watergate display out there which tells the history but it tells it in its complexity, it is not linear, it is not always clear and there are lots of people saying -- wait, this means -- including the, that by and large what i i think it is--

kind of etched permanently because of the dates and because of that display and once you are in the library, people will find things that sicken them and thate will find things make them stand up and say, because the room moments in his presidency when he rose to the occasion, particularly in foreign affairs where he had a vision with china and the soviet andn, which was historic when you are gone and when we as bush says, history, we won't know. we will all be dead. [laughter] [applause]

>> thank you. thank you very much. have a great day, sign-up for our mailing list and visit us again. thank you for coming tonight and thank you both. up next on c-span, the florida governor's debate the between rick scott and charlie crist. massachusetts, democrat martha coakley is running for governor against charlie baker. senatore new hampshire faces republican scott brown. singer cyndi lauper speaks tomorrow at a health and human services briefing on youth homelessness. watch live coverage tomorrow at

on c-span.tern on c-span2, a conversation on u.s. education focusing on common core standards as hosted by the american enterprise institute live at 1:00 p.m. eastern. theere are a few of comments we have received on the ebola virus coverage. >> why can't we all get behind the president and what he wants peopleor the good of the and that is the a bowl of thing -- ebola thing. ands overhyped by the media they give it 10 to 12 minutes every morning and they are still talking about it. there are other things that are important to talk about too, >> i would like to see c-span do a question about if this is

ebola virus, the proof we need a national one payer health care system. this can see -- capitalistic health care system, as now it is going to cost us millions and millions to clean that mess up. >> regarding ebola and hospitals not being able -- not being ready. you have a guest on, earl bosch. eight or nine years ago. i forget the name, she wrote a book called "pandemic." she went into hospitals. it was under the bush administration. we had a shortage of doctors and nurses. her book said it all. we were not ready then and we are not ready now. you should have her back on again. >> continue to let us know what you think about the programs you

are watching. , or you canil us send us a tweet. join the c-span conversation. i guess on facebook, follow us on twitter. florida governor's debate between incumbent republican governor rick scott and former governor charlie crist. previously served as a republican but is now running as a democrat will stop this is the second debate between the candidates. in race has been listed as a tossup. tonight, the final debate in the florida governor's race, one of the closest, most negative, and most important contests of the year. republican rick scott is fighting to keep his job. former tea party backed

by the gop establishment. >> governor scott has delivered. >> charlie crist is fighting to reclaim his old job. he is a former republican backed by the president he once controversially embraced. >> we can get this done. >> it is a bitter battle. >> a slick politician. >> to decide presidential election. anything can happen. these candidates faced off, scotty didn't take the stage at first because crist broke the rules. viewers were blown away. >> that has to be the most unique beginning to any debate. >> election day is almost here. the offices up for grabs. -- of fice is up for grabs. liza from jacksonville, this

is debate night. we want to welcome viewers from around the state and around the country. tonight i will have questions for rick scott and charlie crist. by others asking questions directly from floridians. you can join this debate in real time to vote on which answers you liked the most. each governor will have one minute to respond to our questions. i will allow for conversation between the candidates. gentlemen, welcome. let's start with you, governor. the issue on the mind of every governor -- ebola. tomorrow, if the patient were to test positive at memorial hospital here, when you transfer

that patient to one of the four hospitals outside the state that has biocontainment units, or are you completely confident the thattal could treat patient without any floridians getting sick? >> this is what they have done so far and i would feel comfortable that we are doing the right thing here in florida. when this first came out this is what i thought. we had 20 million people in the state and about 100 million tourists. health care workers and first responders. my goal was to make everybody feel comfortable that we were prepared. if there was a hurricane we would be prepared. for things from the cdc. we wanted more testing kits, we have got three so far. we asked for more protective gear and we haven't gotten that yet. we asked for them to do a conference call with our health care workers to explain what happened in atlanta versus what happened in dallas.

i used to be in the hospital business. we have asked if we could use some of the funding in our own agencies to buy more equipment. they have allowed us to do that. we are buying it with their money and our money. >> just to be clear, you feel comfortable with the patient being here. you gavest debate, governor scott high marks when it came to handling the bola. -- handling ebola. how would you mark president obama? >> i would give it an 8. we had a slow start, and i think he recognizes it. i think the federal administration is doing a commendable job with a difficult situation and i think it is important that the president work with governors around the country to make sure we are doing everything possible to be prepared and not panic.

i think working with the cdc's important as well. anybody in the public health arena who has experience with scenarios like this, we need to rely on them. >> let's bring in the next question. governor crist, we have a question from facebook. "why should we trust charlie crist? he has flipped parties, views on education, health care and abortion. it seems like he just does what is expedient for charlie crist." what i think is important is that you are true to your core beliefs, to how you are raised and that is what i have done, why i am not a republican. the republican leadership has leaned so hard to the right under the tea party kidnapping that it just wasn't consistent with how i was raised.

always been i have personally pro-life but have never felt it was right for government to impose its will. it is important for women to make their own choices about their own bodies. governor scott has a different point of view. i am somebody you can trust. i call it the way i see it. i'm for education and i want to protect our environment, women should have the right to choose, raise the minimum wage -- things i feel very strongly about. all bething we should concerned about is that he has taken positions for political expediency. that is exactly what he said. when you saying this year is it ise believes, whether on taxes or education or abortion or women's rights -- which position he is taking today that he is doing to get elected. heit was interesting --

talked about how to you know charlie is telling the truth. have you know rick is telling the truth? this is a man whose company medicare fraud and had to pay the largest fine in the history of america. $1.7 billion. i think you worked on the story, jake, and did a great job. when you bring that kind of background into the governor's office and have the kind of cronyism that we do in his administration, it makes hard to believe anything he says. >> there is a big difference between charlie and me. i built a company from scratch. wrong, ithing went take responsibility. there is always something you can do better. charlie has never taken responsibility and says he is not responsible. he testified under oath that

charlie was paid to appoint judges. he wants take responsibility. the party chairman went to prison. charlie says he is not responsible. 30,000 jobs were lost -- >> may i responded to that? notion that he would put millions of dollars behind a commercial where somebody who was a convicted felon and making false accusations about me is stunning. it is so irresponsible and that is not being accountable. you talk about being accountable -- how are you accountable at all? he wouldn't answer a question 75 times under oath. you paid no fine and didn't give any money back. when you were kicked out by the board -- i don't think that is being responsible. >> let me ask a direct question of each of you having to do with charges you have each had.

you have set you have taken responsibility for what happened, governor scott. what are you taking responsibility for? what do you say you are responsible for. >> when you have a company like that and something goes wrong -- i thought about what i could do better. i could have hired more auditors. i wish i had done that. let'sr member -- remember that. charlie is responsible for raising taxes, raising tuition, he was saying he was a regular republican -- a reagan republican. he will respond to which judges he appointed. >> zero. doing. he knew they were did he try to give any of that money back? no.

he kept all the money -- >> you are just wrong. we will see it in the paper tomorrow. >> if you want, you can respond. >> i am ready for your question. it is obvious he has his problems. >> the thing about the charges he leveled against you -- there have been a number of people that have gone to prison. what does that say? >> i don't have a crystal ball and you can't always foresee what people will do in the future. i may give you an example. i have met people that later take about turn and it is unfortunate. it happened to jeb bush. he was the secretary of the department of corrections. those things happen. you can't always foresee that someone might go badly wrong. >> let's move on. governor scott, florida prides itself on its gun laws.

reporters investigating your finances have found documents showing that you have much more finances tied up in family trust that you have disclosed. why not do with the state constitution requires and file a full and public disclosure of your financial interests? what i am looking for is the roviding thisur p information to a state that prides itself on open government. >> let's look at what i have done. i did exactly what the grand jury suggested under charlie and i put my assets in a trust. you do that so you don't know what you own. jeb bush did it. i did the same thing. this year iat, disclosed everything in the blind trust when i did by filing and i filed my tax returns. i have done all that. charlie hasn't.

turley has not released his tax returns, like jeb bush did, like bill mcbride did. i have disclosed everything and i will continue to disclose everything. >> i have disclosed all my tax returns, and think i have disclosed them for the last 15 years. he talks about the fact that my wife has not released hers. that is true. we file separately. i believe in a woman's right to choose and i'm going to protect her from that if that is what she wants. i don't think it is fair for governor scott to try to impose my wife -- she is not running for anything. this is an election between you and me, rick. >> let's go to an issue that is foremost among mines -- jobs in the economy. more than 800,000 jobs were lost while you were governor. you always say that you are not responsible for the global economic meltdown that occurred

during your term. the florida did have the second highest job loss in the nation. are you saying you are not to blame for any of the jobs lost? >> no, i don't think i was and i will tell you why. when i came into office we were starting to experience a real estate meltdown. we are in florida. we depend on real estate and awful lot. what rick scott doesn't get is the fact that even though he talks about creating more than 600,000 jobs, i was not responsible for the global economic meltdown anymore than rick was responsible for the national economic recovery. if you are somebody who flies around in a private jet and you hard toa mansion, it is understand what people are suffering from and this is probably the most important thing i will say tonight. i understand what you are dealing with. i talked to people that are working two and three jobs every day. i am on your side. unfortunately, rick scott is

not. i first off, charlie, you -- don't know my natural father and i lived in public housing. we struggled for money. i know what it is like to watch -- i watched my parents struggle. harlie, i didn't grope like you did. you grew up with plenty of money. you lost more jobs in any state but one. we had the second-highest increase in unemployment in the country. one million homes were float -- were foreclosed on. >> governor scott, four years ago, gubernatorial debates, you promised you would create 700,000 new jobs "on top of what's normal growth would be."

economists expected that to be one million jobs. about 626,000 new jobs have been created, well short of your mark. the question is why aren't you meeting your own benchmark? ranran on a campaign -- i on a campaign. have 261,000 job openings right now. let's look at what normal growth was when i took office. double.rowth would be 11.1%.growth was 3.5% to no more growth under charlie. if you go back and look at what normal growth was, it was losing 800,000 jobs over four years. , average income is

$27 an hour. we are down to a little over 100,000 people. this estate is on a roll. >> there is about 600,000 people that are still unemployed in florida, another 700,000 that are not on jobs anymore because they have given up. that is 1.3 million people in florida not working. what i think is important is to understand what they are doing. you have to look at who we defend and who we support and why we are running. i am running to defend the middle class, to give you a chance. i have always fought for you as your attorney general and governor. rick scott is fighting for the big utility companies and the property insurance companies. that is the difference. is -- charlie grew up with money. he has not had to worry about money his whole life.

when you grow up worried about money, where you start a business, charlie never did these things. he didn't have parents worried about putting food on the table. -- i think about every day iran for this reason. i want this to be the state were any family, you can live the dream. get a great job and your children can get a great education so they can live the dream. >> thank you. if that is so, then why doesn't governor scott fight for the middle class? thatmers i meet every day are paying higher utility bills and property insurance bills. they go higher and higher every year of his administration. when i was elected last time, one of the first things i did was call an emergency special session to reduce your property insurance bills and we did it. then i called another to reduce your property taxes and we got it done. that is somebody who was looking

out for you, who is on your side. he is on the side of the big utility companies. >> utility rates went up under charlie and went down since i have been -- these are all charlie facts. taxes,gard to property you said they would drop like a rock, charlie. 48%.dropped third on property insurance. you put the state at significant risk. the average household would have been responsible for $1800 in additional fees. >> we haven't had hurricane and eight years and your property insurance rates have gone through the roof. why is that? it is because rick scott is not letting the department of insurance regulating -- he signed a bill last year that said the department of insurance cannot regulate insurance.

does that make sense to anybody? it certainly doesn't make sense to the people playing -- people paying higher insurance rates. >> that is not true -- >> i will move on if i can. you disagree about the minimum wage. crist wants to raise it. yournor scott, you have set oppose raising the minimum wage because you think it would be a job killer. clarify something. do you support the principle of the minimum wage, the concept? >> sure. -- the privatew sector decide wage and -- decides wages. according to congressional budget office is, raising the minimum wage would lose 500,000 jobs. you lost 800,000 jobs when you were governor, how many more can you lose?

he can do anything he wants with the minimum wage, and under charlie the minimum wage was zero. 800,000 people went from making money to zero. you should be known as the zero wage governor. think about where we are. 261,000 job openings. $27/hour.come is up you get companies that move here like lockheed martin and northrop grumman. this is something you would never do. say youcould -- you support the concept of the minimum wage but then said the private sector sets it. you support the concept of the government setting a minimum wage? >> sure, but just because they set a minimum wage doesn't mean you get it under charlie. under charlie, the minimum wage was zero.

>> the fact that pretty clear here. he is against raising the minimum wage to $10.10/hour. he says the very idea makes him cringe. why? why would it make anybody cringe? so you have a little more money in your pocket? the statistics are also not what he said -- they are crystal clear. in seattle and san francisco, where the minimum wage has raised, more jobs are being produced, people have more money, you can go to the mom and pop down the street and spend a little bit more. >> i want to ask -- some economists do say that in raising the minimum wage would cost 50,000 jobs in florida. we spoke with one business owner, who tells us she has done the math and that the minimum wage going up -- she will have to layoff one of her employees.

what is your message to that one employee who would be laid off? >> the reason i think it is worth it is people deserve it. my life is a small business one. god bless her, she pays her employees at least $10 an hour. how can somebody get dollars on $7/hour?llars/hour -- people work to our three jobs just to make ends meet. that is not an economy that is coming along. if you are rick scott and you have a private jet, or you live in an oceanfront mansion, you were out of touch and you are not feeling what people that are watching tonight are feeling at home. i know they are hurting and i know they need somebody on their side. i was that governor and that attorney general. i will do it again. in 14 days, you get the opportunity to make the change. >> charlie just said it.

he doesn't care. jake, your example, that one employee -- he doesn't care. the really doesn't care is because he has never experienced it. a father,a parent, struggle to buy christmas presents. charlie never went through that. he has never had to worry about money or being laid off. charlie has done fine in life. what i'm going to fight for is what i have done the last three years and nine months. i will fight for families -- >> governor crist? >> he talks about how i was fine. when i was a little kid, we lived in a small apartment and my dad used to deliver newspapers to make ends meet. you don't know me and you can tell my story. i am not going to tell yours but i know you are worth $100 million or $200 million. the way you got it is pretty unsavory.

the fact that you don't relate to people -- real people in florida today and the struggles won't lowernd you utility rates, you won't lower property insurance -- >> you raise utility rates. they have come down since i have been governor. you almost bankrupted the state. somebody has got to pay that off. when you took office, the family would have to pay $100 a month to send their child to university. , $250 ars later month. >> we do have to take a quick break. when we come back, they are not the only ones on the ballot. we will get their take on medical marijuana, next. ♪

>> welcome back. we are here in jacksonville for the final debate in this very heated race. let's get right back to it. medical marijuana is also on the ballot this november. governor scott, you signed a law allowing a mild form of marijuana to be used by those suffering from cancer and epilepsy. we spoke with one man who says mariju greatest ana will not be enough for his daughter with seizures. what is your message to him? he says you are not getting his daughter a chance. >> i want to make sure everybody gets the health care they need. anybody that has a debilitating illness -- i have been in the health care business and want to

make sure you get that. we started this year -- i was passing legislation, and i think the right thing to do is to continue to go back through the legislative process and find treatments that will work and let us make sure that we get those to individuals all around our state, make sure there are things -- they are things that are safe for your family. we were going to the charlotte's web discussion this year. >> i support the medical marijuana amendment. the reason i do is i think it is a compassionate thing to do. has worked very hard to get on the ballot and i commend him for it. i think it is important to have done so because he did it out of compassion for his brother, his father. i happen to have a sister that a year ago was diagnosed with brain cancer. they got she is doing well -- hello, margaret.

people -- if people like her were to get into pain and they needed something, it is a good alternative. >> there have been a lot of questions about the florida state university football team, specifically how some players have gotten away with crimes raining from the aft -- from t heft to rape. you are a proud alumnus. problem, oris is a it is just the media? >> i think it is a serious problem. whenever you have an allegation of the type we have seen, you have to take it seriously. i understand what justice means. you have got to approach it in a fair way. you have got to make sure there is balance. issue att just an florida state university, it is an issue across the country. we have seen a lot of focus on it and i think that is a good thing. we have seen the stories out of the nfl. this is a problem that

america has and we have to have law enforcement react appropriately and have state thorough do investigations. >> first, i think every athlete and every student needs to be held to the highest standard. if there are allegations that need to be reviewed, there shouldn't be different standards for anybody. through schools or the state attorney, everybody ought to be held to the same standard. >> are they? is the stateing on attorney reviewed it and decided not to proceed. it is going back through now. they will go through the process and review it through the normal channels. every athletet and student be held to the highest standard. >> governor scott, during your

term, we became second only to texas and numbers of execution. "this governor signs a lot of death warrants. i did not sign a lot of them because i took it very seriously." governor crist seems to be suggesting that you do not take the process seriously? . >> the death penalty is a solemn duty. it is something that is very difficult to do. these individuals have done heinous crimes. i think about the families and the victims. i reviewed the cases and i am very cautious in that case. but they have done heinous crimes. i have met with the victims' families. someves this families conclusion to what is going on. i see them around the state and what i think about all the time

is the victims. >> governor chris, do you think he takes it seriously? >> let us look at the facts. he has signed a lot of death warrants. i find them as well. it is the most solemn act of governor has to do. knowing that your name on a piece of paper is going to result in the death of another human being. -- if thatt make you doesn't make you take it seriously, nothing well. just this past year, and execution was delayed by the government so the attorney general could go forward and have a political fundraiser. like, that doesn't sound somebody is taking that solemn duty as seriously as they shed. i don't understand and i don't know what all the facts were. the only fact i do know that an execution was delayed because the attorney general of florida wanted to hold a political fundraiser and that can't be delayed without the governor's consent.

>> he doesn't know all the facts. he doesn't know what i go through or how i think. i do. it is a solemn duty. what i think about is the victims. if you read the cases of what these individuals have done, you won't feel good about doing it but i will continue to do it. >> i asked him a simple question -- did the attorney general ask you to delay the executions or she could go through with the fundraiser? >> you can answer that. itshe asked me to delay because it didn't work on the date she thought it was going to be on. >> did you know it was for a political fundraiser? >> she apologized. >> did you know is for a political fundraiser? >> that doesn't answer the question.

>> governor crist, earlier this year, in discussing why you left the republican party, you said, "i couldn't be consistent with myself and my core police and stay with a party that was so unfriendly. i was a republican and i saw the activist and what they were doing and it was intolerable." --rify for florida voters are you saying there are so many racists in the republican party that you couldn't remain a republican? >> no, i'm saying that element exists. my family are republicans and they don't have a racist bone in their body. what is at work here is a pretty simple thing. to 2008 andber back some of the e-mails that were distributed about the president by some members, not all, of the republican party -- they weren't exactly flattering. i think you can research and find out what i'm talking about, but it wasn't right. i can tell you that the reaction i have gotten from some in the

republican party leadership wasn't tolerable. it was pretty clear that it wasn't just because i was willing to work across the aisle recovery funds. it was apparent to me because it was the first african-american president. i don't enjoy saying that. it is not fun to say. but i'm going to tell the truth. divider.e, you are a you are a mud sling or. -- slinger. the entire time you have been in politics -- you are a divider. look at what -- we live in a wonderful state, the best melting pot in the world. we have so many wonderful people here that have come from all over the world and you want to try and divide them. i want everybody to have the same shot i had to live the american dream. >> nothing could be further from

the truth. i reached across the aisle when i was her governor and worked with the president for recovery funds. this governor won't work with the president even to get high speed rail which is so important to central florida and the whole state. it would have been $2.4 billion to florida, 60,000 jobs, he will not lift a finger to get medicaid expansion done. one million floridians watching tonight aren't getting health care again tonight as a result of that in action. possibly bring hundred 20,000 jobs. -- plus it would bring 102,000 jobs. billion toowed $9 get everything you could. you left the project on the table that would cost us billions of dollars. you want to talk about medicaid. you were governor in the past? why didn't you pass it to then?

worked with the federal government. something you wouldn't do -- you -- governor doesn't work with the ministration, it is clear. he asks for their help and we have a crisis and that is the when weing to do, but are offered 60,000 jobs with high speed rail, 120,000 jobs with medicaid expansion, governor rick scott says no. he is all talk and no action and as a result, tens of thousands of floridians that would have a job today in our stalled economy aren't getting the employment that they need and that is not right. you are not on their side and i am. >> you are the last person that ought to be talking about jobs. you lost 832,000 jobs. government doesn't create jobs.

you can talk all you want, but you didn't take action to help create jobs. you wouldn't call on a company, you wouldn't work with economic development. we had companies like lockheed martin and northrop grumman to either move or expand here. you would never even make those phone calls. >> let's talk about jobs. what governor scott has done is say he will guarantee $266 million for big corporations outside of florida to come to florida for jobs. the miamibay times in herald that only 4% of the jobs promised actually were created. that is a 96% failure on your jobs program. what would i do? you deserve to know tonight. i would take that money and invest it in small businesses here in florida. go to fairshopflorida.com. >> i would like to move on.

i want to ask you about the shooting death of trayvon martin. >> he doesn't know how economic development works. ge.id a project with charlie, they don't add the jobs in one day and we don't give them the money until we have the jobs. we are not out of the money until them. didn't this job -- why you do all these great things you are talking about? you are pure talk and you take no action. >> thank you. i was serving during the global economic meltdown. we did the very best we could to get florida through it and we did. the economy in florida was starting to come back when you came into office because of the policies i had except in recovery money from the president. that kept us from having to fire 20,000 school. those are real jobs and it matters to them. i got thingsnd

done and i would do it again and i will work with anybody, republican, democrat, independent and will bring jobs here and you won't. >> i would like to move on. i want to talk about trayvon martin. it put a spotlight on issues on race and justice. -- issues of race and justice. here is the larger issue that i see coming up, governor scott, a simple yes or no. african,lieve that especially young african-american men, get a fair shake? >> my goal is that they do. focus -- youve you said the goa what are you doing to get them therel. >> here the things we have done. i sat down with the family, the mom and dad. introduced them directly to

the individuals at the department of law and forstmann that would do the investigation. i told them in person that i was going to bring in a federal prosecutor to make sure that justice was served. i want to do everything i can to make sure the right thing happens. here's what we have done. they have completely changed how we do justice. dropve had a dramatic in the number of arrests since i got elected. we have put in reentry programs and help to try to make sure that you get a job if you get out, on like under charlie when you couldn't. are we making progress? yes. is there more work to do? yes. >> a quick break. when we come back, the issue the next governor of florida must deal with before it is too late. ♪ >> welcome back.

just two weeks from election night, this is the final debate. nn toing.com/c vote on which answers you like the best. governor crist, you wanted to weigh in on the question i asked governor scott about whether young african-american males get a fair shake in the criminal justice system. >> i don't believe they do. i think it is sad. i think it is important that everybody is treated equally and gets the justice they deserve. the attorneyvice general and we found civil rights cases to make sure that all people were being treated early. treated fairly. the more important issue is restoration of rights. i had was governor,

felons get a chance to get a job. under rick scott, it is gone and it has been gone for five years. >> here's charlie's plan -- commit heinous crime? get out of jail, get to vote. stalk, vote. intentional disfigurement of a child, vote. >> that is fundamentally unfair. i said nonviolent criminals. yourselfnt to look at and that is exactly what you did and i completely disagree. >> governor crist? >> very unfair. i would recommend you get a fair shot. you support lifting the embargo against cuba. he said he would like to travel there after the election if the opportunity presents itself. to meetu be willing with row castro when you are in

castro?with raoul >> the embargo has been in place for over 50 years and has not worked. the intent was to get rid of the castro voters. they are still there. that is a flawed program that hasn't worked. the people are still suffering and that is what concerns me. i have compassion and i care about people and i don't want to see them suffer. in addition, if we were able to open up relations with cuba and the cuban people, learn from them, get their insight into what they are having to deal have the opportunity to have some redevelopment. all of that redevelopment, we can move forward. that would help florida's economy and our hemisphere and hopefully bring more freedom to cuba. >> i want to ask you -- >> can i respond to cuba?

has changedng that with the castro motors is charlie's position. they are terrorists. there is no democracy there. there are human rights violations. they are killing peaceful protesters. i wouldn't be going to cuba and wouldn't be meeting with the castro brothers. we need to stand with individuals there in cuba. if they do not end the embargo -- it is the right thing -- >> let's go back to the next question. >> we take a question from facebook regarding immigration and driver's licenses. "do you support giving driver's licenses regardless of legal status, not just the dreamers?" >> i think we need to have it for all of them. it is important. i am a grandson of a greek immigrant.

my grandfather came to this country when he was 14 years old and didn't have any money. he had a dream of coming to america that would give him a chance. he fought in world war i and was honorably discharged and he gained citizenship. he was able to get a driver's license stop these young people today should get a drivers license. my running mate is an immigrant, herself. florida is a shining example of how promising diversity can be. we need to do everything we can to move immigration, comprehensive immigration reform, forward. i would encourage our members of congress and senators to work with the administration to get that done. >> here's why we are having this conversation. the president has failed. he has not worked to get immigration reform done. now we have a humanitarian crisis where we have unaccompanied minors coming across. we need to have comprehensive immigration reform, immigration

reform where we know how to legally immigrate. if you want to come to this country, know how to immigrate. the reason we are having this conversation is because the president has failed us. he needs to secure borders. >> i would like to follow up -- you praised senator rubio for his efforts and immigration reform. there is one clarification voters would appreciate. do you support the part of senator rubio's bill that would provide a path to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants? what i said is i appreciate what senator rubio tried. i appreciate the fact that he tried to get comprehensive immigration reform done. but i don't think you can talk about this in pieces. you have to take the whole package. the president has failed us. he hasn't worked with congress

and hasn't secured borders and by not securing borders, he makes it difficult to get anything done. the first thing americans want is a secure borders and a comprehensive policy and you won't do it. >> do you support the past the citizenship part of the bill -- the path to citizenship part of the bill? >> i want the package done. >> do you support that if it was part of a package? >> i would have to see the whole thing. it is notrted and that the of ministration hasn't tried to move forward. there are a lot of components to government, in fact there are three branches. the house of representatives has not been particularly helpful in helping the administration tried to move forward. to blame it on the administration is disingenuous. let's talk about where rick scott was on immigration when he ran for governor. he wanted to bring out an arizona style law in florida, were officers were able to pull people over because maybe the

looks wrong. -- they looked wrong. >> i believe illegal immigration and rule of law, the listen what i did that charlie says is the wrong thing. i said you should get the same tuition as your peers. charlie said when this legislation didn't past that they did the right thing. charlie was against that. but we did the right thing because if you live in florida you ought to have the same rights to state tuition as your peers. >> but now they will get her driver's license. >> i want to move on -- the scientists are concerned about people who live near the beach, climate change. whenever you are asked about climate change is caused by man, you say you are not a scientist. but you are a governor. doctors advise you on ebola. why are you so reluctant to believe the overwhelming majority of scientists to say that man contributes to climate change?

solutions.m into his here is what we have done. we have spent $350 million to deal with sealevel rise in the keys. we spent hundred million dollars to deal with coral reefs. money intoe historic our springs. we are going piece by piece in solving problems. charlie is going to talk about -- he will have con ferences and then do nothing. he didn't lift a finger. he didn't put a dime into coral reefs, to make sure springs were protected. that he will have a conference and talk a big game, but nothing will happen. >> i believe in climate change. i believe in global warming. i think that man is a significant part in that.

we did have conferences, but i signed executive orders, the nature of which you had never signed. why do i believe it is important to do that? because i believe in renewable energy. clean energy like solar, wind. these are the kind of things i think are important in instead of continuing to be addicted to gasoline. that is if funds your campaign but those are not the people i am looking out for. we need more electric cars. >> i'm afraid we have to take a break. a question iback, have never heard of these candidates answer. back to the final debate. we only have a little time left so let me proceed to this final question from facebook. "i would like each of the candidates to tell us one thing they wish florida would give them a do over on." governor scott, let's start with

you. >> the biggest thing is i wish there was more time. i have called on companies for almost four years and i wish there were more hours in the day. i love traveling the state. we both love getting around the state. >> a do-over? for me it is pretty obvious. the opportunity to serve you again. i am up for it and i want to make sure we have a florida where we look out for the middle class in support small business growth and mom-and-pop. are doing -- make sure we are the things that floridians need and deserve. better education. the way it was when i was a governor before. two weeks from now you'll make that vote and i hope to earn it. over 170,000 online votes and the results can be seen at bing.com/ccnn. thank you both. we really appreciate it.

i hope to see you again for election night in america. have a great night and are member to vote. ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2014 coverage includes more than 100 debates for control of congress. stay in touch and on top of the debates and engage. all of us on twitter and like us on facebook. in kansas, incumbent republican pat roberts is running against independent greg led a tossup.ce caled here are a few of the political ads airing. >> i am pat roberts and i approve this message. >> trillions in new debt.

obamacare. nearly 10 million americans unemployed. now barack obama says -- >> i am not on the ballot this month but make no mistake, these palaces are on the ballot. every single one. >> greg orman. a vote for greg orman is a vote for the obama agenda. >> these policies are on the ballot. . roberts is attacking me and that is exactly what is wrong with washington today. they would rather attack opponents in the problems we face. i have tried both parties and i have been disappointed with both. as an independent i won't answer to either party, i will answer only to the people of kansas. i'm greg orman and i approve this message because while the attack and try to label me, our country's problems only get worse. >> in case you have forgotten, i am bob dole, and i want to talk

about my good friend, pat roberts. pat is a fourth-generation kansan who fights for kansas every day. protecting our national security to create allison's of new jobs. -- to create thousands of new jobs. stakes are high and the choice is clear. we need to keep pat roberts in the senate. gothen pat roberts for its to washington, there were under one million illegal immigrants in america. only gottenhas worse. today there are 11 million illegal immigrants. instead of working on a solution, robert has come back to kansas to lie about greg gorman. he is amnesty and will secure the border with of plan that is -- >> i am greg gorman and i approve this message. a couple of life debates tell

you about. in new york's 11th congressional hael grimm is running against domenic recchia. watch live debate coverage tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern here on c-span. on thursday and i was fourth district, incumbent congressman steve king will face democratic challenger jim mowrer. that is live at 8:00 p.m. eastern. in massachusetts, democrat martha coakley is running for governor. the current governor is retiring after serving two terms. this race is called a tossup. the debate is courtesy of wgbh in boston.

news presents a live gubernatorial debate. studios in brighton, here are the moderators. >> good evening. it is to weeks until election day and we hope the next 60 minutes will help you decide your vote. >> we intend to cover a lot of ground and the only thing we can tell you about the format is that there isn't one. it is just a conversation with the two leading candidates. >> please feel free to talk to each other as often as you like. >> they are already talking to each other. we appreciate you joining us tonight. >> you are both running as job creators and you both have plans explaining how to do it. martha, you have been working in the public sector for 28 years. not creating private sector jobs. how do you convince people that

you can do this for them in the private sector? mywhat has been important in experience is seeing what barriers are to job creation in the private sector, how overregulation or energy costs and health care costs -- i have seen that as attorney general and i also understand what the state has been able to do, like the governor has with investments in life sciences, to work as a good partner with schools and to provide for the growth in the economy. one of the differences between the two of us is to keep the jobs going and we need to invest in our workforce. think? do you >> i think the big issue we do face is jobs, the number one issue for people everywhere we go. i have traveled around the commonwealth. it is very clear that some parts of massachusetts are doing well and other parts aren't. a big part of our economic

development plan is focused on those regions into those communities that not done as well as others. talkingwhy we have been about building economies based on the jobs that are already in certain parts of massachusetts and why my first campaign event was at umass. that is a great public/private partnership. a terrific,ed a highercircle between institution that provides research and product development expertise to a bunch of firms that want to be here and want to grow and it is a great pathway for kids who go into those companies with a graduate. we should do more of those. build the region by region. >> that is why i have a regional economic development plan. aligning what is happening in our schools with curriculum, making sure that as we roll out half million dollars over the next few years we will build the

economy from the ground up, one that is sustainable and invests in kids in our workforce so we won't have jobs going empty. >> charlie, when you rescued harvard pilgrim, you shut down in operation in rhode island. why should people have confidence that you can create the jobs you claim you can in the private sector? >> harvard pilgrim was in terrible shape when i got there. i am proud of the fact that we managed to rescue not only the jobs associated with it but the jobs associated with many other health care organizations that would have failed if it had gone down. wen we signed that contract, outsourced those jobs. that is where the vast majority of the people who have been working continue to be employed. i'm proud of the fact that we saved their jobs along with the thousands of jobs at harvard vanguard.

-- they the jobs that say to jobs at thousands of hospitals. we had to make some tough decisions. leadership requires you to make tough decisions and i have said many times that the hardest decision i had to make was to exit the rhode island marketplace. thatproud of the fact everybody we own money to got paid, everybody was an active treatment and continued to serve and make sure they got transition to properly and everyone who was employed by us and lost their job be provided job training. >> one quick thing about outsourcing -- i get your explanation that you needed to isthat, but what i don't get when you get dressed up in a text veto and went to get an and outsourcing excellence award, like there was something to celebrate about outsourcing jobs. >> the outsourcing award was for the partnership.

those jobs stayed here in massachusetts. it was a big part of the success we had in taking our organization that was like manylly broken, parts of state government are, and turning it around and making it work for everyone will stop making it work for the members, the providers, the employees. we saved thousands of jobs and kept them right here in massachusetts. we also saved the jobs of many other organizations. >> one question was about the history of job creation. should i assume from your answer that you don't have any? you preserve jobs. you were primarily a public-sector prison. -- person. the experience is limited in both case. >> i also spent eight years of

working in an administration during which time between tax cuts, workers comp reform, and a host of other reforms, we took a state that had the highest unemployment rate and we took office in 1991 to the lowest unemployment rate in the country by the time we left 10 years later and we created 500,000 new jobs, something i am proud of. >> why you disagree? >> the public sector doesn't necessarily create jobs. they play a big role in how jobs are created. that have very extensive energy -- that wanted to do on-site outsourcing of energy production. them cut red tape and they saved money and hired 300, 400 more people. >> one last quick jobs thing. patrick is shifting

employees, tying the hands of the next governor. them from removal. even if you have a problem with what the governor did -- >> i was and involved in the negotiation. i think the governor needs to be more transparent about what happened. once we have the what and why he needs to explain it. >> the guy you worked for did something to the same degree. >> 500 people of management are talking you about 1/6 of those in the state government. there is no publicly available explanation about what agencies are affected or how they are affected. i also worry a lot about the message this sends.

one of the things that makes people crazy about state government is that there are two sets of roles, one for the people on the inside and one for the people who pay the bills. look at the probation scandal. day after day we had to listen to testimony that indicated a whole bunch of people got jobs, not because of what they know but who they know. make transparent to the way they hire people a greater process to make sure that the public understand to guess the jobs and why. i think that is a big difference. >> this is about transparency and putting the financing being transparent about letting go of 700 department health workers and outsourcing that. i'm happy to stand on my record. i didn't have anything to do it that decision. and values that drive those decisions. that is what is at stake on this race.

>> is that correct? >> i'm all for it. >> will only consider it that you deem vertical. is that a fair statement? >> -- that you deem critical. is that a fair statement. >> that is fair. >> you use the compete you raised premiums pretty dramatically which help you achieve your goals. where did you take a -- why did you take it off the table? >> you made a ton of operating improvements as well. the kind of things that i think state government could use right now. >> one of your tools -- to>> i think it is important send a message to everyone in massachusetts cut many who feel they have been nickeled and dime to death.

we are not just going to raise taxes to figure out how to pay the bills. somewhere we had to draw the lines pick think about energy costs. families and businesses in massachusetts will be dealing with a 40% increase in energy costs. they didn't do the work they should have done. we needed to build additional capacity to deal with. we need to move forward and expand existing national gas pipelines to three feet to four feet that is the simple process of people -- >> that is a market issue and not a taxpayer issue. >> it is a cost question. you're talking about taxes. against2010, you are

[indiscernible] to making sure that none of those costs were passed along. inhave come much farther clean energy and technologies than we would have thought for years ago. we need to catch up. you cannot take this one and say that they haven't done the jobs in moving toward energy technology.nd clean include --no new tax yes or no question. >> it depends on which be you are talking about what it is associated with. >> has over $1 billion of spending that check -- that she has proposed. >> that is not true.

revenues --raise give us a couple of examples of ways you could do that without increasing the burden on the middle class. >> both my opponent and i -- charlie has refused to take a no new taxes pledge. i've been straightforward. in order to move forward, we need to invest in this state. need to invest in our businesses and our kids and our workforce development. otherwise, you are missing the equation. charlie has proposed 300 million of tax cost. he said, i will find that money somewhere. he also talks about the kinds of things he wants to do, including workforce development. where does that money come from? i know what my priorities are. investing in kids, investing in

schools, investing in roads and bridges. >> what would those revenues be that would not increase the burden on the middle class? >> taxes on people who are the top two -- >> how do you do that? >> we are exploring ways to do a more graduated income tax. >> every four years, someone says they will not raise taxes on middle class. we have been hearing that for seven years. gas tax, middle-class. satellite-tv, middle-class. registry fees, middle-class. property taxes, fees for afterschool sports. all of this land on the middle class. i will not raise taxes because i think the middle class feel strapped already and the last thing they need is another four years of getting nickeled and dimed again.

>> you oppose the repeal of the gas tax index. charlie, you support it. they never review whether they are doing what they were supposed to do. in the spirit of question one, would you endorse the position that corporate tax rates should expire unless there is a vote of the legislature? >> we ought to do an annual review of whether we are getting what we are supposed to be getting out of them. that is absolutely worth doing. >> i have always said we should be looking at whether tax breaks to businesses bring the money back. >> fair enough, thank you. let's talk about immigration. where are you on drivers license for immigrants who are here?

>> i don't support drivers licenses for people who are undocumented. no one has ever been able to explain to me how you can document and verify someone who was undocumented. for many people, this is a burden and an inconvenience and i understand that. fundamentally, we need washington to do with this question and solve the immigration problem. we need to create a coalition of governors to make the case to washington that we at the local level and the people who live at the local level deal with the hard reality of a broken immigration system. the folks in washington treat immigration like a football. we need to create a coalition, a bipartisan, and get after them

on this one. >> they are not doing anything about it, not even handling it. i know other states have reached solutions. we have to move to a new system. there will be people in massachusetts who will not be able to get those because they do not have their birth certificates. a lot of people have been here for a long time and they cannot get to work on it they cannot get to a medical emergency if they don't have licenses. there is some pending legislation. we have to address this situation. >> in-state tuition for people who are here illegally, are you for or against it? >> if you are going to get an in-state tuition subsidized by the taxpayer, you need to be able to work here in

massachusetts when you graduate. the governor's executive order says if you fall into a certain category where you can work your after you graduate, you are eligible for in-state tuition. i support that. i am not in favor of going beyond that. >> i support what the governor has done, but i support looking at extending that. for kids who have come here through no reasoning of their own -- we should be encouraging people who are law-abiding and want to work the opportunity to do that. >> i cover immigration. half a million people in massachusetts are not citizens, unable to vote. in boston, half the adults were not able to vote in the casino referendum because they were not citizens. what would you do about it? >> i think you need to be a

citizen to vote. we need governors and local officials for whom the issues associated with the federal government inability, unwillingness to deal with the immigration issue, to form a coalition and make the case i make these guys and gals are comfortable. it makes me nuts every day that i run into people that are confounded by the fact that the federal government has not been willing to address this. >> congress is not even meeting and we are in the middle of a war. it falls back on states, governors, to decide what you do. what do you do? 500,000 people in the state who are not citizens. a huge number of them in east

boston are affected by this thing and they do not get to vote. >> i would not support that. >> certain cities and towns are mostly given the local option. there should be some requirements ahead of time. i do believe, and i have seen over the past year, we have a new massachusetts. we have a lot of new residents. i know washington is not going to move. >> can you see a noncitizen who is a legal resident, can you imagine allowing them to vote in a local election? >> i think it is up to the local authorities, but i certainly would not oppose it.

>> you lost to deval patrick 24 points among women. you got in a little hot water calling a reporter sweetheart in the campaign. >> you are killing me. >> and the hobby lobby decision. i think your words were, it does not matter in massachusetts. martha coakley supporters made a lot of hay about this. do you think they treated you fairly in the media? >> hobby lobby, i am guilty of wildly overthinking it. i am still the only candidate in the race that proposed a solution. make it possible for women, if they work for a company that falls between the cracks, to be able to access the contraceptives that are covered under the decision. i am proud of that recommendation. i am pretty pleased with the response we've gotten from people across the commonwealth. from every neighborhood, men and

women. bring balance and bipartisanship to beacon hill. i have been very pleased with the response. >> do you think martha supporters were unfair? >> if i say something dumb -- >> i have been pleased by the response we have gone. >> do you think martha supporters were unfair? >> it is the campaign. i fully expect that if i say something dumb -- excuse a. >> don't call me sweetheart. >> don't worry. [laughter] >> you have known charlie baker for a long time.

is there anything in his record that would lead you to believe that he treats women as second-class citizens? >> we are not accusing him of being sexist. he has done great work, he has done a good job. the real issue for me, who do you see, who do you work with, who are you going to champion? the first response from me was, it is not just about contraception, it is about other forms of discrimination. i have been very involved in these sorts of issues. these are not academic issues. these are things i know are real issues for people in the commonwealth. >> what is the one misconception of you in this campaign that drives you up the wall? >> that i care about numbers and i don't care about people.

my entire professional career has been about people. i wanted to help the people. i did not spend eight years working in the administration because of the numbers. i took the job at harvard pilgrim because thousands of people were going to lose their jobs and millions of people were going to lose their health care coverage if we did not figure out how to fix it. for me, it has always been about people. it bothers me that when you're talking a $30 million that it that they somehow consider

someone who doesn't care about people. >> that is what this race is about. i will put my record of against your spirit of not criticizing what you did. i think it just shows you are do increasedyou premiums, you outsource mental health. i would not make those decisions, charlie. i have always made the decision to stand for people. there were 200 jobs outsourced to india. there were 700 employees who lost their jobs and people left without mental health care because of your decisions. this is about the values that

drive your choices. >> let's talk about the mental health issue. i am proud of the work we did in the 1990's creating and building a community-based health care delivery system for people who no longer belong in institutions. those places were not great places. many folks in the advocacy community supported what we chose to do. 20 years later, have we solved all the problems? absolutely not. a good piece of the work we did in the solutions we found are exactly the way the system works today. >> let's assume we want to take people out of institutions. the missing piece was providing the care once they were out. only 60% of the amount went for outpatient services. i am working in the district attorney's office and i see the uptick in people who are homeless, who went up in the criminal justice system because we did not take care of them. >> is there a misconception about you?

>> i think people think i don't have a sense of humor. >> i've been covering casino issues at "the globe" for three years. if the state casino law survives a repeal challenge the day one of you is elected, as many as two casinos are likely to open during your first term. how much casino gambling have you done personally in your life? how does that experience inform your policies? >> i have played a little blackjack and never done well. one time i made money and said i

was going to quit my day job. i have no idea how craps work. i have watched it a lot. >> how does it inform your position? >> i'm a big fan of one casino. there are a lot of people from massachusetts who enjoy the atmosphere, the hospitality, the restaurants and all the rest. i wish that one casino in massachusetts made sense. >> i am not a gambler. what i have done is because when this first appeared as a proposal in massachusetts, i knew we were not ready for it. from working with the attorney general in new jersey and nevada, the kind of oversight and regulatory work you have to do around everything from money laundering to organized crime to

human trafficking. one of the things i did do was work closely in crafting the statute and looking at what we had to do in massachusetts. >> both of you have said that if we get rid of the casino law, you would like the springfield casino. isn't that thwarting the will of the voters? >> i'm glad this question is on the ballot. i thought it should have been on the ballot from the beginning. i have walked the site in springfield and i'm pretty sure i am the only candidate who has and it is a very interesting proposal.

the part of springfield that was hit by the tornado. and it is dying right before our eyes. it is a $600 million investment. the casino, they do not wrap the whole thing into the project. to build a streetscape. they basically rebuild a part of downtown bring field and they connected it to the civic center. having a conversation about it is worthwhile. the legislature may choose to say no. >> if it is repealed, i would consider it as part of regional economic development. that kind of leveraging that could provide growth for other industries.

you both embraced. martha quickly. >> it is one of the reasons i'm against internet gaming and we have very strict consumer protections. make sure people cannot be imposed upon and cannot get into debt. there are consumer protections. i would continue to do that. >> are you worried about it, charlie? it would have a huge impact on the lottery. way, three casinos and

a slot parlor will have an impact on the other industries in hospitality restaurants and retail that compete with that. tot of what made interesting me is making a big investment in the place where there isn't a lot going on. judges.e ask you about one judge was arrested for beating of four different girlfriends. another judge let them out with little to no jail time after he murdered jennifer martel. many are leaving that they are getting tougher about repeat violent batters. battert another repeat after he dragged his girlfriend with his car. what should happen to these judges? should they be able to serve until they retire or should there be something? >> we have made changes.

frankly judges should be reviewed on some decisions they make. there is an internal process. they had not made that public. you can always take one case and say this is the wrong decision. that is not the right result in that case. >> this happened again, post all the talk about tightening things up. >> i understand. it doesn't sound like a bail situation. that was the incident there. this is leniency in sentencing. we have guidelines. we have an ability to appeal it. getting the balance with the judges is something i care deeply about. >> when you say review, what do you mean? five years down the road, ask them to explain themselves? >> right now it is an internal review done by the court with lawyers who appear before those

judges. they have not made that public. >> should they? >> perhaps in cases like this. >> what should happen to these judges? >> we made recommendations associate with domestic violence reform. one of the things i learned was that he had been in different courtrooms and the court system as a whole didn't talk to itself. this has to be part of the game plan going forward. you can't have people in front of 4-5 judges behaving like it is their first trip in the court. we have to consolidate so judges can make informed decisions about everything associated with those things. i have no problem at all. it would be a good idea to have

a review that takes place every 10 years or so. >> not only should there be a review, they should be re-upped by governor's council or whomever. should be another vote? >> i guess what i would say is you can either have a process where they have to be re-upped or the review would determine whether or not they would go before the governor's council. i like the letter better than the former. these are lifetime appointments. we want to make good decisions. that is why we set them up. but they ought to be held accountable. at the same time, everybody ought to know at some point they're working for the public and taxpayers are paying for it. >> let's hear from patricia. >> i cover social services. both of you have talked about caring about vulnerable children and the need for fixes.