board. as governor, would you sign a bill binding arbitration for teachers? >> no. >> no. >> >> we ask that you hold your applause. closinghe order for statements was determined by a drawing. they begin with gina. your closing remarks? >> thank you. it is time to rebuild rhode island. i am running for governor to create tens of thousands of middle-class jobs and put rhode island back to work. especially manufacturing jobs. when i grew up, my dad worked for 26 years at the watch factory in father's. he provided a good middle-class life for my family.

my brother, my sister and me. his job went overseas like so many jobs. to leaders did very little re-create our economy. i'm running for governor with a plan a comprehensive job to rebuild manufacturing, to re-train our workers, to invest in our infrastructure and put people to work rebuilding roads, schools, and bridges. it is not a time for reckless cuts that will hurt families and turn the state back. it is time to rebuild rhode island and move the state forward. thank you. >> thank you. i am looking to rebuild rhode island that i am looking to be rhode island from its foundations. we have gone too far in building and the structure is not stable. what we have to do is return to the point where we actually have a society that encourages jobs,

that works for the education of our children, that has a reasonable tax system. in doing this, we can bring ourselves into a competitive state with others. and also in doing that, we can keep our children here in the state by providing employment opportunities. if we think we're going to build our way out of everything, it is not going to happen. it is fantasy. we have to look at what we have, go back to our basics truck and restore freedom and liberty. >> thank you. thank you channel 12, providence journal. tonight, we heard a clear choice between very different plans for the future of hours state. -- of our state. -- dance ofergy

urgency. of heard about my record real reform. my plan will reduce taxes by $200 million. i plan will put 20,000 rhode islanders back to work. -- my plan will make our state one of the business -- most business friendly. we need a leader ready from day one. real leadership produces real results. i do not want that title of governor, i want the job and the responsibility. from the day i announced-- >> thank you to all the candidates. now to our studio audience. your chance to applaud. >> [applause]

[cheers] >> want to thank the rhode island providence art center. that does it for our 2014 gubernatorial debate. you can also follow our campaign 2014 coverage on w pri.com. you'll find our latest eyewitness news there. election day is november 4. most polls open at 7 a.m.. check with the secretary of state's website. bring a valid photo id with you to the polling location. i'm too white. good night. white. good night.

for lots more campaign 2014 debate coverage. we go live to the cato institute in washington. they are hosting a discussion on police misconduct, abuse, and whether the new technology can make pleas more accountability. civil rights advocates and scholars will examine what is being called the militarization theolice forces around country. they will discuss the citizens rights and export ways to make sure please respect liberties. -- the police respect liberties. that is coming up on c-span.

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[noise] >> hello. welcome to the cato institute. at our new media lunch. it is a regular series.

our panelists here today will be discussing the policy and privacy concerns surrounding filming active duty police officers, as well as touching upon body camera programs and what this could potentially do to mitigate the problems of police misconduct. onlinese of you in our audience and watching on c-span, hashtag is #medialunch. a catoilverman is internship alum. he is the creator of the immensely popular education " 10 rules for dealing with police." his channels have

seen over 35 million views. >> thank you. how many of you have seen the movie the matrix. a show of hands. pretty much everybody. what i want to try to do is the same thing with you. neo-when hed to know kung fu. i i want to try to do the same thing with you that when i want knowr you to say i how to record the police. i have woken this down into flex your rights, five rules for recording the police. rule number one, know the law. the law is, you have the right to openly record the police in public. you notice i emphasize openly here and i will explain why.

this first rule is probably the most important but it is also the most confusing. we have all seen videos where people are getting arrested for openly recording the police in public. we see these every day. police intimidating people, or even arresting people who do nothing more than film the police. this is happening despite the fact that every state and federal circuit court to rule on this question has concluded that filming the police in public is first amendment protected. you might ask, what about the 12 states who have all party consent laws that require all parties to agree to be recorded. the courts in the states ruled that those laws do not apply to citizens who are openly recording the police in public. the most obvious and effective way to avoid running afoul of

these laws, is to use your camera like you are a reporter, not like a spy. you want to be always openly recording. some of you who know a little bit about these laws might be saying, wait a second, what about massachusetts and illinois, two states that have statues on their book that make it illegal to record the police in public? again, there is good news. internet 11, the first circuit court of appeals declared their lot to be unconstitutional. illinois did the exact same thing. the laws have been invalidated. therefore, in the u.s., citizens always have the right to openly record the police in public. theif you are recording police and please tell you to

put your camera way, that is an i would argue. that it is ok to inform the police of your law by saying something like, officer, i am that it with the law does not apply to recording on-duty police. i generally don't advise in favor of educating the police about the law in other sorts of the counters -- encounters. i think it is advisable. we'll number two, know your technology. how many of you have a smart smartphones?how of that is great. of you who have a smart phone, password protect your pass? who of you does not -- password protect your phone? you can easily secure it by installing a passcode section.

highly recommended. the supreme court recently passed a very excellent ruling requiring police to obtain a warrant before searching your smart phone, but in the meantime, it is always a good time to get it -- to keep it locked down the guests sometimes people -- to keep it locked down because sometimes police do not get the memo. how many of you have a streaming video according cap on the home screen on your phone. ? for those of you who do not have it, i'm going to show you the benefits of keeping a streaming video on your home screen. the streaming recording video app. has the best streaming app. i'm streaming you all live to an off-site server.

the benefit to this is that if a police officer unlawfully tries orsnatch, confiscate, destroy your phone, what you have recorded will be saved securely offsite. use it or another live streaming video app-- it has a feature if you tap the sleep feature, the screen goes blank. this can be additional security and protection for your data, passcode goes to sleep. but if they try to unlock it, if they turn it on, he will get a passcode. of course you not going to give it is an passcode. extra layer of protection. will number three, respond to toussaint'ssay.

here, so i'll keep it to things if you are recording an arrest, suddenly you might see a situation where one of the police officers will break off from that and suddenly approach you and say, hey what are you doing? sometimes people make the mistake of responding with something like, i'm recording you to make sure you are doing your job right. or, i am recording you because i do not trust the police. there is a better way to say this. a better way to approach this is to say, officer, i have not interfering, i am asserting my first amendment right. you are being documented and recorded off-site trade that is why it is a good idea to use the live streaming video. cops might say please stop recording me, that is against the law. police who are in those 12 states, might actually use this, misunderstanding of the law, in

order to get you to stop recording. again, i think it is ok to say officer i am familiar with the law but the courts have ruled that the law does not apply to recording on-duty police. another thing, you might scream at you, stand back, i need you to step back. is tood response to this step back. i think it is ok to be a little bit flexible in a situation. say something like, officer i am not interfering. i am exercising my first amendment right. we'll number four, to not point your camera at the police like it is a gun. i have seen lots of videos where people kind of get aggressive and sho shut in their face. you canr way to do it-- avoid the vertical video see the black you

borders and it is ugly and it looks like you're looking at the video through a crack in the door. make sure you go horizontal. i think it is a good idea to record like this. >> when you hold the phone at waist level, it is less confidenc -- confrontational. you do not have to frame it like a cement truck for -- i guess in them at target for. it is better than pointing your camera like a gun. you can avoid the vertical video. final rule.five, prepare to be arrested. i've been telling you the whole time, this is perfectly legal behavior. yet, if you're brave enough to record the police. you must look at this activity as a potential act of civil disobedience that can lead to your arrest.

it is troubling that citizens for not breaking the law should be prepared to be arrested that if the officer says to shut it off or i will arrest you, you should take him or her at their word. it is up to you if you want to consider testing the boundaries. you may comply by saying officer, ok, i am turning the camera off under protest. if you keep recording, brace yourself for arrest. preventsleep button to the police from deleting your footage. do not physically resist. arrest, youst -- have the right to remain silent. you should use this right by shutting up. the confident that any frivolous charges will be dropped and you will have deserved evidence of that mayl arrest become the basis of a potentially lucrative lawsuit.

the more poorly than that, it you're brave stand could affect citizens. congratulations, you have all been upgraded, you now know how to record the police. >> thank you steve. next presenter is jonathan blank. he's a research associate for cato center and a blog editor with cato. his research interests include his work hasduct. been published on online outlets. he also maintains a personal blog, blank slate. and you can follow him on twitter. i want to apologize. tim lynch was originally

scheduled to be here. i'm happy to be here because it is something i am passionate about. police misconduct.net is a cato resource that we used to disseminate the instances of police abuse and crime throughout the country. i will take this moment to thank katie randall does so much work behind the scenes. not meant tos shame police as a whole or be anti-cop in any real way. we believe that police officers are trying to do their best. to rights leads violations against both the guilty and innocent. see this in daily roundups of the daily news. police misconduct tends to be thought of as sort of a rare, bad apples sort of incident where it is just one cop and it

is not representative of the entire department. that is often true. it only takes one cop to give the cops -- the rest of the cops about example. the baby resent the bad ones, they feel obligated -- though they may resent the bad ones, they feel they must remain quiet to support them. long story for some other time. because of this reputational and balance, his conduct often goes unnoted -- misconduct often goes they are dismissed as a bad apple situation. we feel that police misconduct is something that requires more attention. sunlight is the best disinfectant. the more we know about police misconduct, the better we know how to deal with bad apples and the better begin stop bad management -- the better we can

from an management. internal police perspective and citizens. there is reason to be optimistic about the future of policing. a steve explained, most all of us have cell phones with recording technology. likewise, dashcams has been standard in patel cars for a very long time. now, the technology allows please commerce -- police officers to wear cameras. they can record any instance in which they come into contact with the public. observers.or neutral are shown tos abuse their authority. it also works to protect the police.

easily, and officer was accused of sexual assault someone he stops. the camera showed he did absolutely nothing wrong. it exonerated him. he does a portable and --it's may technology have brought us closer to finally answering the question, who watches the watchers? we all do. as many few probably know, the official autopsy results of the michael brown case in ferguson were released yesterday along with leaks grand jury evidence. a officer wilson was wearing body camera, perhaps we would i say perhaps because we know technology is only as good as the people who use it and share it. cameras are not a cure all. there are instances caught on film where police are violating the rights of others but they escape punishment.

two years ago, there was a young man in prince george's county who was assaulted by a police officer. the man's crime was essentially walking away from a police officer who wanted his attention. the police officer started running after him and he turns round, hearing the footsteps, the officer was not yelling or anything, he turns around and gets hit in the face with a gun. the gun goes off. luckily, no one was shot. but this man, was assaulted by a police officer. luckily there was a sal footage. he was charged and spent a month in jail for eating physically assaulted -- for being physically assaulted. that this officer was charged he won. video evidence but it did not get him off. he was also not fired. he was allowed to retire, which usually means a pension.

video evidence is sometimes ithheld bite with -- by police department. a woman was pulled over by the police and she claimed she was injured during that stop. camsp please can -- police stopped working. it was her word against seven police officers. people's word against the police. it is usually not good without video evidence. part of this is because people want to believe that the police officers -- want to believe police officers. their people just like us. people lie and they have incentives to lie. comess where the public in. i steve was saying, if you follow the right rules, his evidence inan get

your own neighborhoods. but i must caution, this is still a dangerous endeavor. some of you probably saw, in ferguson, there was a large moving protest and a police officer was in the middle of it. he pointed his assault weapon at individuals and threatened to kill one of them. this was caught on tape and the videographer asked him, did you threatened to kill me, what is your name? the officer responded with something i am not going to say on c-span. it went firewall. as of the video, the officer was found and fired. that is very rare. if that police officer got too scared, if someone bumped into him or something went wrong, the person with the video could have been shot. please be very careful.

i'm not saying don't do it, please do. be as careful as you possibly can. i look for to your questions. thank you, jonathan. our final panelist here today is matthew fogg. he's a retired chief deputy of the u.s. federal marshals service and a member of law enforcement against prohibition. highestved the law-enforcement reward for tracking down over 300 of america's most wanted and dangerous fugitives. after 30 years of service, he retired. matthew held leadership positions in three government on what -- nongovernment watchdog organizations. you can find him on twitter. much, it is very

good to be here and thank you for the introduction. with mywholeheartedly two colleagues, stephen jonathan. i present a law enforcement perspective. some of the things that i have observed. --they the things that you said they were improprieties, a lot of things going wrong with the inside. the one thing i always from them or when i came out of the academy and arrived at my duty station. i remember, the management told and was a young recruit wanted to bring how to shoot and use the amendment rights and what your rights were and how to implement the law. what is very exciting about it,--i know you learn all that stuff at the academy. listen, this is how we do it here. i will always room to him saying that.

this is how we do it here. about this,o say when we look at the body cameras what kinds of solutions we can come up with to help us understand police better and maybe get a better understanding of the situation, we have to understand, when i am on that street as a law enforcement officer, i have a lot of discretion. i have a network behind me that is going to back me up, the good old boys network. it includes police officers, judges, it is a whole network. even those at the grand jury. i remember the close relationship that the u.s. attorneys had with the grandeur is, talking to them every day, communicating, joking together, coming together. that had a major influence on the cases that they brought before the grand jury, whether

they were going to get indictments are not. what i am saying to you is that there is a network. how we build and get into that network. officersember of against prohibition, we are a powerful organization because nationally across the whole country, we send a message out. the war on drugs is bad policy. it only is it that policy, is probably one of the most policies that has been instituted since slavery. that is pretty powerful. aclu reports, i was a member of amnesty international. reporta racial profiling that indicated more people had 9/11 thanled since the population of canada. i have seen so many reports that show the disparities are not close.

we look so widespread, and see what happened in ferguson and in new york home of a show called, we are seeing the stuff right now on television. we saw this man being choked to death while he was saying "i cannot breathe" and he was killed there it we saw a rodney king hundreds of times with his thick red on television. everybody is saying, that is awful and that is crazy. the officers do not get convicted. what happens is the network kind says, this is how we do it here. is yes, trying to say cameras are good, but really, we do not know, to be honest with you, when all that information has gone back, when you're sitting in front of a jury, and you are allowed to go back and rethink everything, because you know it is different when officers are involved. they do not have to give a

statement right away. all the protections they have, once they get back, people are telling them, i know you are involved in the shooting area all of this israel. what i am saying is, once that begins to happen, you take a year or two years for a child to come up. a jury is sitting there and airing the officers and, "i thought he had a gun. life andeatened for my i remember one of my partners was killed six months ago or so and so was killed and i feel a threat when he looked at me with his hands up saying, do not shoot. i still feel that threat. you get people who will sit on that jury and say, i was not out there and police officers have a go through every day and i will give him the benefit of the doubt. is there is ag,

lot in law enforcement that is wrong, but we need protection. when i when my case, everybody said to me, do not take on the justice department, do not go forward. to cops what happens when they blow the whistle and speak out. your career will be destroyed but not only that, but they will cap -- they will probably kill you. that happened. my backup actually left me. partner who also made a -- he was killed. he went to congress, holding that up before congress, that is what they gave him. what i am saying to you is we have got these situations going on in ferguson and down in sanford, florida.

mainly because it is an issue with cameras and so forth, but this death has been going on forever. it has been out there, trust me. incidentsuestionable and i had to tell officers then and there, you will not do that in front of me here. when i work with other departments, i would work with and i sawiami, lapd, some of the most egregious violations of your life. says, -- his , there are all kinds of ways to get through your fourth amendment rights.

most african-americans know that and they do not want to challenge it at times. when you get pulled over on your way to work, you know the officer put you in a situation where he could either create a problem for you, so you just give him consent. you do not want to be held up for work. you give him consent and say, go ahead. it is easy to stand back and say, i do not want you to search my vehicle or all the other or what i'mave to saying is until we start to address the issues, until we start to really say to people, why are there these disparities when we look at the same drug, crack cocaine arrest, and we look at the same arrests, the same incident, but we see the of african-americans

arrested, charged, and doing time for the same drug, if the one drugs is equal opportunity, who would not be having the issue today because it would have been over the same way of alcohol prohibition. but because it is not equal, that man said to me, i said, look, we have got all of our drugs and gun task force in urban areas. they were urban areas we are focusing on. i said, don't they use drugs in potomac, maryland? don't they use them in silver spring or other affluent locations? he said yes. as a matter of fact, they use them probably more. they have got the better stuff. if we go out there and start to lock those folks up until/banks in their homes and run through the houses and do all those things we do in our enforcement operations, we will get a phone call and they will shut our

operation down and there goes your overtime. there goes all your excitement, all your money. everything you're making. you know what he said? they are still using the drug, let's just go to the weakest link. i told him that his ethnic cleansing. we have to understand the whole it is working. thank you very much. i appreciate it. [applause] >> thank you. from what all the panelists are saying here today, it sounds like cameras would be a part of the solution. are they viable part of the strategy? are they maybe not going to work? >> certainly, as it was pointed out so well, you cannot count on cameras to cure the problem, but video brings us closer to the

truth and the truth can bring us closer to justice and accountability. i like the fact that you have initicians like grand hall the wake of ferguson, now talking about funding for cameras, body cameras, for the police. what we have seen in sort of small trials that have been done, where, i think it was california, the trial was funded and you have to take it with a grain of salt. in that small study they found after a year, the incidence of police actually using force reduced by about 80%. a really striking reduction. the incident of police misconduct reports were is reduced by about 60%. ist i hope to see more often

the police officer with the body camera facing off against a citizen with a body camera. what you have there is a pleasant and lawful encounter more times than not. that is a good thing. video brings us to truth, which closer to justice. >> i agree with pretty much everything -- not pretty much, but everything. there are colts rural problems in police departments. the thin blue line, where costs will not testify against each other. really, when you read the stories, i mean, you think of corruption, and you think, ok, well, his life left him and he is making money on the side. it it is not a big deal and no one is dying. the problem is, i've read cases where police officers are afraid child molesters.

the intimidation could be so bad, they will protect whomever, just to keep the peace. that requires a considerable reorganization of accountability. a lot of people point at the policeman's union, as you see with the ferguson case. the pages that went up to fund raise the officer wilson, were run by the police union. i do not blame them as the only factor. there are plenty of just the incident -- the institutional problems completely divorced from the union that reinforce the procedures. >> just to add a little bit to that, i think the body cameras is a good idea. as a law enforcement officer everythinge street, i am doing been recorded, there is a certain invasion of your rights or just you being a

normal person. but because there is so much when it comes down to the after american community, we are talking about two different policing aspects here. i tell people that all the time. me -- i doget behind not even have any. what i'm saying to you is because, unlike -- i am wondering, what are they going to do? i know when i came out of the i had myi know shoulder holster on. i am lining up and had a shirt and tie and everything. i was the police death in the police vicinity. the police came and surrounded my vehicle, jumped out with guns and everything that i freaked a little bit. i put my hands up and i just ,roze and once they came up they said, we had a report of a black man with a gun.

what i am saying to you exists. to tell somebody, an african-american, "you handle it this way, your cordial to the cox and everything else, if that cop wants to harass somebody and creative scene, he will look to do that. he is out there and he will say something. the body camera may help you there here and everything is recorded. we know it can turn wrong. we know there are all types of things they can do. we are talking about cost and role america, i am just saying, there are a lot of things we need to address. we have got to address the system and say, race is still part of america. as much a part of america as apple pie. we need to address it. the last time we try to attend like a great thing. it is not. it is cut and dried. what is happening in that black

community is a little different than the white community when it comes down to policing. i could tell most of the folks in this room, because i knew, and we knew, if i spot a vehicle car, iur whites in the know, whatever those black folks did, the holistic vision will back me up, prosecutor and all. those four white folks, somebody might say, what was your probable cause? they never asked me that before. it is the culture, the culture that when the guy said, and i want to emphasize that, this is how we do it here. when he said that to me, he wanted me to understand. i know you know the rules because you went for the academy . you've got to shoot him and have a throwaway weapon there that was a part of the culture. make sure you have got an extra

weapon on you, a knife or something, in case you get into an accident, where you know you were wrong era through the knife on the ground. hand.at knife in the whatever. this is real. i hope i'm not finding anyone here, but this is real, what i'm talking about. things that are set on the inside and the culture that exists on the inside. aboutwhen we are thinking these potential cultural problems inside the police department, will on body cameras actually have an effect or will be run into the exact same issues we see with dashboard cameras, getting them turned off and similar issues? >> i think the technology is there where it is obvious, whether it is turned on or off or not. the metal -- the

metadata and you can tell whether a person turned off or not or whether it was a technical failure. a technical failure could include an officer snapping the camera, but that can be diagnosed afterwards. i am hopeful. i am optimistic. -- i hope we will not say, or it will be few and far between, where we have an instant -- an incident like what happened in ferguson, where someone dies as the result of a police officer, and we do not have video evidence of it whatsoever. i think the technology is there. certainly, when ferguson happened, the thought i had and a lot of evil had was, there is the dash cam footage -- there is no dash cam footage? i have police in military equipment worth hundreds of

albums of dollars, full camouflage, and infrared goggles, you are telling me they did not have the technology and means to install a dash cam in each car? moreover, i think if you have a situation where there were dash cam's installed, or even a body camera, and they give out for one reason or another before a terrible tragic incident, to blame, of who is if the technology goes out, it will look a lot like obstruction of justice. it will not be something that will be able to be looked at. rather, we would be investigating that in another else as a crime. i am hopeful of that. >> i was recently at an event at the urban institute with adc -- the dz chief of police.

the washington, d.c. chief of police. we talked about ways we can police actions more in line with respect to our ranks. one of the programs she is thinking about is tracking basically who we pull over. it is not so much -- i mean we many times, an officer does not think he is racist and he does not think -- i am out there to try to mess up these people because i do not like them. it is implicit bias. they just happen to pull over an overwhelming amount of black people. measuring this and reporting all of this, and being able to go back to the officer and say, hey, why are you only pulling over black people were mostly only black people, and having an accountability factor. i think this, along with the body cams and the profiling

information within police departments is just part of a broader scheme of accountability. of bodyo has a bunch cam footage they will not release. it is not part of the public record. ask for then you freedom of information act from them, they will not release it. that will system become accountable for these people. to add a little more to that, i go back to raise because i say, when you talk about race, it is almost like germ warfare in the sense that, as soon as you come up with an anecdote, they come back with a worse strand. you try to figure out, every time you create a policy a policy of accountability, it is all about accountability.

that is the bottom line. i remember when there was on the radio and we talk about a road that was racial profiling. officers were stopping only the black people. a black man, he says, were they speeding and i said, if they were. he said, they were black? he said what is the problem? they were is eating? and i had to think about this. i said, the problem is we violated their civil rights first. that was a violation of their civil rights because now we are stopping just them for that same job, a lot of the officers might do things they do not necessarily see is racist, asbiased, and they see it going to the weakest link.

that is what that particular manager told me repeatedly said look, if we go out and start they willthose folks, create a problem for us. let's go simply after the weakest link. he was a white person telling me this. it never dawned on him that the weakest link for me was the community i came from. he never thought about that. he said, they still violating the law and using illegal drugs and so forth. using the body cameras and going back to it was said about the body cameras, again, there are always ways you could mutate around what i did in my head, as opposed to what i did physically. convince a jury, and we find that juries do not want to convict cost, especially happens to be african american, somebody most of the time the jury cannot even

identify. like theshould look people they will lock up. the officers should look like the community they serve. not in ferguson appeared again, i say to you, body cameras, these are all good things. we can put in policy of when to shoot and when not to shoot. is ontely, it is as -- it me. i have to articulate, i feel threatened for my life. i got into a shooting in miami. i am fighting this guy in the apartment. he was an escaped felon. we physically fight and all over the department, i have got a nine millimeter on me. tired, i felt like gumby when it was all over. there was no strength in my arms. but when it was all over, the guy still got out and hallway. when my partner jason, a

shotgun, boom. it did not kill him. u.s. attorney, he sat down with me and he said, i have got one question. when you're fighting this man, he said, why didn't you just pull your gun out and shoot him? and i stopped and i looked at him and i said, i guess i did not feel it my life is in danger. he said, good answer. i guess that really was it. i'm fighting him and i never thought -- they do not want us fighting people, not from me dizzy and hit me in the four head. and then they say, why didn't the officer shoot him? it is a lot of discretion and that is the point i am making to you. a lot of these are taking place

with the african-american community. that is what we're finding here there is a mindset out there, thank you. >> one more question. i will take the moderators on private before we go to our audience. you always run into issues of privacy with cameras. i have at least been seen two different facets of that argument. one of which comes from the police officers concerned about having their day to day on the job filmed, not because they're worried about being caught in police misconduct issues, because they worry they will be film bad mouthing their boss or something similar, and then we'll get in trouble because of that. on the other hand, i am hearing from private citizens, who are concerned that police wearing on body cameras might can't -- might come into their homes for any number of reasons and that might turn their home into a potentially public domain.

what normally would not be allowed to be stoned, would now be being felt. they are worried there about fourth amendment issues. could you speak to that? >> before anybody had a smartphone, the big issue was, cameras waste in public. a lot of civil liberties variant, myself included, were concerned this smacks of george orwell 1984 surveillance tape stuff. but they got installed despite objections. just waiting for the other shoe to drop. is, i think people appreciate that when you are in public, you do not have an expectation of privacy. police are now learning they also do not have an expectation of privacy in public. officersrn of police badmouthing cops, that is barely

justifiable as a reason to get rid of a technology that gets rid of harmful incidents of police violence or police, we just covering it up. it is funny because it is almost always police departments in particular who use the argument of, we are concerned about people's privacy in their own homes. this is something that so easily protocols can be developed. a video inside of people's homes, to the public, you will be fired for that. everinformation would only be used if it is relevant as far as a criminal case is concerned there it same with the video of police officers always having the camera on. the video, the procedure is the video would only be told if there were was a shooting or an accident. or even an arrest happening. andan craft policies

protocols that could easily address these sorts of policy -- privacy concerns. >> i agree with that, although i would prefer legislation over protocols. senator sam ervin stopped a bill not would have authorized knock race from becoming federal policy. you cannot just bus down a door because you are serving a warrant. that legislation was locked but we all know it was policy. there is no legislation preventing it. i would prefer, instead of couldg it up to police develop the proper protocols of when it is no longer relevant, i think we need legislation to back this up. >> again, being in

law-enforcement and having been out in all types of operations, having cameras on me, i would have to get a feel for it and get used to it, but the reason i is important it is there, how many people have seen the show. they video everything. they let these guys come in and then you enjoy it. if you can put it on cops, you can put it on should -- her chest. my bottom line is, yes. once the police come to the scene anyway, there is no more diverse and their it if i am there on the scene, something is going on that is a reason i am there and there must be something going on. i think the cameras are important. be aody cameras need to recording of what is being said. it will make a lot of officers

think twice about doing something that is not legally proper or right. said, we always have known people have rights and officers know that and we have always been trained that way and the academy. somebody says, they need more training. no, he doesn't. he needs to be fired. he does not need more training. training -- the point is, we have got all this training. yes, theo realize that culture has gotten to such a way that america needs to see what you do. and is your job, to serve protect the public. the public should know exactly what you're doing. we can make a call. then we have got to start taking

the accountability out of the policeman's hands and putting it into private organizations. other than the police of germany, that they messed up in that. , thank you.iew >> with that, i would like to take it over to our audience with questions and a reminder that you can tweak in questions. -- sweet -- tweet in questions. >> the technology that will be coming down the line would be for you to have a best camera for the average citizen. sure there are rules about that. let's say everyone is walking around with a that has a camera and audio and it is able to record every aspect of your life when you're out there in the real world, including interactions you may have with

onicers, what are the rules that? as a lawyer, i think that is a great opportunity to talk about what we can and cannot record. secondly, if i have not had any problems with the pleas in my entire life and i've never been incarcerated and never done drugs and i've never done anything that would because the egregious in terms of breaking the law, and mike stilled considered a black man? was,e main question there since technology is moving in a direction where private citizens have cameras and potentially were not everyone can see it, there will likely be rules and regulations around what constitutes invasions of privacy .n a public space a close in on body camera policies for police officers. five we have a framework for that already. reasonable expectations of privacy.

the all party consent laws, they for essentially created wiretapping, people recording, what should the financial and presumably confidential conversations for them being held, being put in public, or being used to blackmail the present. we have that framework. a lawyer and a client in an office, certainly if the lawyer or client is recording it, they should be obligated to tell the other person they are reporting it and get their consent. >> a line where everyone will have the. will be --t >> there will be a lot of awkwardness and it will not always be pretty. certainly, i can appreciate police officers ran our just hard to get used to the idea they are almost celebrities and everyone is a paparazzi

following them around. a lot of are naturally not very comfortable with that skill there the words ultimately have come down on the side of the first amendment right to record so long as you're not pointing a camera at off-duty police officer's window. clearly, when they say, you have the right to openly record the police in public, that is the other more obvious operative word. you cannot just be pointing at their bedrooms and bathrooms. i concur with what steve just said, but just the piece about and, i guess,man never having any encounters with the police, would that change your race? absolutely not. we are just saying there is an overwhelming disparity in how police operate when it comes down to people of color.

that is just enough statistics to show that you're not every person of color has had any type of encounter with lisa were a negative encounter with the least. >> i think some of us have been raised a certain way. it has benefited us. if you have good parents, you are fortunate enough to understand good principles. there is a way to conductors of regardless of your skin color in public. pulled over for something. there is a way you talk to the police that is likely to garner respect. so far, it has worked for me and that is all i can say about it. >> i understand that. that arelot of guys very respectful. everything you can think of to the police. wanted to maker

an arrest and was looking for a way. i have seen victims behind stuff like that, that he knew if he did that to you, he did get away. this sort of just go along with the program. some people you pull over, and you do the wrong thing, trust me, you will hear it on city hall. most of these folks, no. they know their rights. you say to the officer, "i don't have to tell you that." i do not have to step out of vehicle, and of the story. whether i had a reason to tell you to, you do not step out of that vehicle, do you know what will happen? you will probably get a taser on the side of your head here this is the real world. so even though you may know it is not right, you do with that officer tells you.

,> i met a guy through a friend new york city, retire. that is what i was working on, police misconduct, the rights of individuals, and he said, i told him about refusing and that sort wouldng, and i said, what happen if someone did that to you? i swear i just met him, and he looks around the room and says, are there any african-americans around here? ofpped with every bit condescension as if he was going to say something else. my friend informed him that my father was black and he said, oh, well anyway, what we would do a shaken down anyway and tell him to go about his business and rack them up anyway. i just met this man. the fact he would be so open to me about that and obviously,

you're talking to someone who , theyd guns pulled on him are not lies. happen to you and that is great, but it does not mean it is not true for a lot of people. >> when you look at the traffic stop hit rate data, whether it is in the bureau of justice statistics, what you will see is the likelihood they will find contraband, significantly lower sometimes even half as much for blacks and latinos as they are for whites, have a high percentage of likelihood of finding contraband when they pull over a white person. so that is strange. at the statistics

and the color latino, white, used illegal drugs and almost identical rates, they are more likely to find when they do a search, evidence of illegal activity in a white person's vehicle, because it seems to be that police will be more likely and only conduct searches if they actually have probable cause and if they actually has evidence. lowerreshold seems to be for people of color, which is why you have lower hit rates. hard ford i know it is a lot of people who want to believe that everybody depends on this -- these actions, police will behave exactly depending on thebehavior, i believe

evidence bears out and the hit rates are some of the strongest that bear out this level of his death disparity. >> on twitter, mark asks if police will be available on record. and if it will be available in court? >> i think if you're talking , outside ofameras that, one of the things i would think about that, when he was talking about going into the house, you do not want them to go into the house and say, someone rob your house. police go back and look at the film and they see, is that a long? they will go back later and execute a warrant for something

when they were originally in the house to help you and come back to surgery. it large screen that has a feed in your body camera, you can sit here and go like this and watch that and you can listen in. like a producer does. i do not know if we will see that in our lives. i do not think we would need to have that level of access in that we havere accountability, but certainly, i think, being able to have an independent review board, with

the ability to subpoena and easily obtain that timeline of events that are disputed, should --easily acceptable accessible, at a minimum. >> read lee, real quick him i beingthink any video contested by the police or the republic would be admissible. thingsly, there might be out of the vehicle for that video that would not necessarily be for trial, but i would think any video that happens to become an incident that became controversial while that video was on, yes, it would be admissible. that is just my vote. >> i think i saw a question in the back? thing i feel it we missed is the militarization of police.

with all the legislation, it has put a lot of power in their hands. a lot of these police officers who had all of these power really do not know how to use the weapons and tools properly. i think that is evident with the incident in ferguson. it would be interesting to hear what you have to say with how we remedy that situation. about policeon was militarization and with the increasing militarization access to military equipment amongst police departments, many of whom have officers who have not been properly trained in the usage of that equipment, what types of solutions can be looked at in terms of nullifying the issue there. >> in response to your question, i heard that on the news and i'm we wereu to myself,

trained how to use it. we have a lot of equipment. stuff we would necessarily need in a public forum, in a with civil unrest in ferguson, no. they know how to use equipment. the purpose of bringing it out was to intimidate the folks, that this is what we have, and we will use it on you if we have to. behind,those officers the gear that they were wearing, the weapons for use, all of weaponspes of upgraded were used, we are familiar with it. but again, when i need to use not thinkn, i would

so. , andve a hostage situation now the slot team comes in, yes, i would want to come in with a tank if i could. what i'm saying to you on that situation is different. when somebody just throws , to be quite honest with you, i would venture to say -- just tossed that out. i don't know. when it comes down to that type , that is to scare and make them like, if they find that weapon, they

will go through 10 people before it stops. that is the purpose of intimidation. i think the solution was common i think the president gave comments, president obama did, about reviewing these problems to find out why the equipment, why they're putting it out there in the situation like that. >> one of the things we need to think about is how we fund police. this money comes free from the government, the dhs, the pentagon. problem also have a with local budgets. they will say, we have a swat team and it is expensive to train the guys and maintain the women in all of this. but we never use them. so why are we paying all this money for that? they get more money from the

government or their like, we will just put them out on more drug raids. that is how the system exploded. full-scales a reorganization of budget because if the city budget will be paying for it, how will want to know usable it will be. if it is sitting idle, they will say, disbanded, which most of us would like them to do, when it is rarely needed, or, to use it more efficiently. >> independent review board and complaints. from what i understand, most of them require submissions that persuade a lot of people from actually submitting reports. i imagine if people were homeless, there is no way for a conduct report?

by secular cutera me a softball. -- >> i feel like you just threw me a softball. >> let me repeat the question. because of very many different police departments, they process for a -- filing a misconduct report, a lot of people are waiting to file those reports. any reform? click yes. i wanted to actually talk a little bit about filing a police misconduct report. first of all, if you feel like you are mistreated and police misconduct, i'm not talking about being shot in the back. the comic-con, where you are the victim of an unreasonable -- police are rude to you and used profanity during the encounter, you want to report that. the challenge is how you do it,

most police departments do not have a pretty website where you just do it right here. the metropolitan police d.c. police, they have a decent form system, but the thing is, one of the options, you create a complaint accommodation. i am sure they're getting a lot of accommodations. that is good if you have a good encounter. urging you to come down to the station for mediation. if you are a victim of serious police misconduct or abuse or that mentality, this is the worst thing you can do here that is almost almost -- always the case. grabbing a gun, assaulting a police officer.

you want to first deal with a criminal charge against you first for you consider -- you want to always do it with a lawyer. there are also situations you have seen in these undercover videos where reporters and -- sendill somebody somebody in to file a complaint in person, and a police desk officer will often try to talk them out of it or interrogate them, asking them their name and their address, their birthday, and making this very intimidating. what is being done now, and developing, and independent, online police misconduct reporting service. an independent, thorough police misconduct report.

that is something we are currently developing. >> the cameras and everything to good for the front end, talk about other proms that will happen, that is on the backend. there needs to be a bite, and accountability. some things i see are easier access to doing civil rights suits for the average person. know howson does not to pursue that. it should be almost automatic. on a contingent basis. that is number one. i think there needs to be more civilian boards for police activity. a lot of communities do not have the kind of thing and the police just police the police. some more bytes. some of i think, and this is more controversial, i think the grand jury's need to become what they used to be and

more independent and not be controlled by the attorney generals. was, is theren room for more civilian oversight of police misconduct? >> actually, to follow up on review boards the have always been for that, because i do believe, and they have got to have teeth, and i've spoken on a few. one in pittsburgh, i have set that up. but again, it is getting where they can suggest -- not suggest, but would or certain things to take place. one of the biggest things, and i do not hear this too much, solutions, is number three. civilrst one you said, rights attorneys. get into a situation and the courts will appoint you an

attorney, i believe the courts should appoint, any time someone brings a bible or a complaint against the police department, or should be an appointee appointed to a person. number three would be very important. this is essential aired in the -- amarshals service, you witness protection program. i'm telling you, that is set up for the very reason in order for government to be able to prosecute, organized cases and organized crime cases and so you have to bring a lot of time the same people out there doing the dirt, you have to bring them in and make them your witnesses so you can go out for the bigger fish. need the same thing for police officers who will speak out. i am telling you here and now, you are dealing with people with badges and guns. it is like in the military, in friendly fire, you're out there in that field.

you are really angry, your subordinate is behind you, you may wind up in what we call friendly fire. in law enforcement. i experienced it. when my subordinates left me on a stakeout and we were taken out suspect in armed baltimore and these guys were armed, when i found my they lefttion, baltimore all the way through washington dc, telling them i did not know what i was doing, and i am in charge, he did not ask them, does he know you're here? if he does, give me a memo if he does not know you are here as to why you're here. he entertained the things that were said and i got a phone call and the phone call was, he would

pull the task force from me in a couple of days is it -- if i did not like this up soon. within threeup hours. went out all over the united states because they were on our 15 most wanted list. guys,, you charged those and i said, you charged them with insubordination for leaving the scene. all of the violations they .reated when i left just let bygones be bygones. if i know they beat the heck out of somebody and they should not have beat them that bad, they said the drugs had landed him a gun was on them when the gun was really not on them, they were going for the gun when they were not going for the gun, we could go on in a litany of things.

most jurors will believe them. i'm just telling you, when other officers say no, no, this is what really happened, but do not leave me hanging out here, we need a protection, we need protection for law enforcement officers or people who blow the whistle. the challenge for following a lawsuit, a staffer from the national capillary aclu come a long time, he has been processing, i feel almost nauseous because he is trying to beat into my head the idea of a long road that exist for someone challengingdering and suing the police and not just filing police misconduct hmplaint, but essentially

very few are able to climb up the top of the mountain. for one, the violation has to shock the conscience. there has to be clear intent by the police officer or the department to violate the law and often times, the only way you will get that information is through video or perhaps a whistleblower showing that perhaps this is actually a policy of racial profiling. they need to have that inside information. for the average person who does not face police misconduct, that does not lead to an arrest or physical beating, filing a police misconduct report is probably going to be the most powerful thing they can do. now they say, they will not read those and it will not mean a thing, but the problem right now is certainly not that too many people are following please misconduct reports. the problem is exactly the opposite of that.

i did read, simple justice, from arecommended practitioner's perspective. they start ind , where the possession stress going to the defendant -- excuse me, the complaint did -- the complaint. so they say, this officer hit me upside the head. then the default would go to the complaint and. i do not know how you go about instituting that. something like that within civil suits could at least make it easier for people.

>> we have actually only got a couple of minutes left on the clock. i will take a clarification question from twitter. chris would like to expend a little bit on the employer it is aand ask if public record, is it then bow -- does it then along to citizens like you? >> um, i am not a lawyer, but from what i understand, the would be, itest depends on the jurisdiction, if itwould be public, i think would probably be to make it fully public against the citizen or the police officer. i guess that would be the question, but it is twitter. i think again, the police officer should be fully public

but as a citizen, i think you cause, show some sort of but i really do not know. >> ok. with that, we are all out of time. [applause] i want to thank all of you here for coming out were tuning in .nline i hope to see you all again on december 5, which will be our lunch, and that is repeal day, the anniversary of alcohol prohibition. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] >> good job.

>> you can watch the panel anytime online at www.c-span.org . of politicaly affairs wendy sherman talks about nuclear negotiations with iran. live coverage here on c-span. 2014 midterm elections just we can have a way, our campaign debate coverage continues both up today at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span, live coverage of the new york 23rd district debate with congressman tom reed and martha robinson. and it 8:00, the iowa for sister debate between steve king and jim our. .- jim mauer and at 10:00, the utah for sister debate between neil love"

when. 8:00, the newt hampshire u.s. senate debate. c-span campaign 2014, more than 100 debate for the control of congress. debate before0 the november election. how many so far echo 98 -- how many so far? 98 and almost all of them available on our website. you can check them out along with links to the debate. hawaii's u.s. senate debate was first, covering that in july. more on the list included at facebook.com/c-span, and follow

us on twitter. one of the debate on this list is the new hampshire u.s. senate debate. genet -- senator jeanne shaheen was asked if she approved of the governor brown is doing. he responds in his two-minute portion. >> in some ways i approve and some things i don't approve. [laughter] like most questions that we deal with that policy, there aren't simple answers. >> let me put it this way. you have said you are the candidate for the citizens of new hampshire. scott brown often says, i don't need to tell you that you pro--- that you vote with president obama 99% of the time. the cousin obama's approval ratings are at an all-time low in new hampshire right now, 38 percent to 40%, how does your voting record jive with the citizens of new hampshire? >> i

worked for new hampshire. onet brown talks about survey, and 99% of the time i voted with the president, but the numbers i'm proudest of are 359 -- 259 people that are now working at the prison because i was able to get it open after it sat empty for two years. the 1200 people who were being foreclosed on in their homes that our office worked with to keep in their homes and the 129,000 veterans who can now get care close to home because of the legislation that senator ayotte and i got in the reform bill. but we need is someone who's going to work for new hampshire, who will make sure that we address the concerns that we hear from our constituents, who was going to be willing to work with democrats, republicans, and anyone who can get the job done for the state. >> she just described me. i was the most i partisan

senator in the united states senate. outy survey that has come has senator shaheen as being one of the most partisan senators. she has, in fact, voted with the president over 99% of the time. what does that mean for the people with -- in new hampshire? she was the deciding vote for obama care. hospitals to keep our -- as a result, costs are going up dramatically. care and coverages are going down. going to put in place a system where we have more and more gridlock between the parties 99% of the time. we need to have an end to that gridlock. >> you can see all of that new hampshire senate debate between jeanne shaheen and scott brown at www.c-span.org. politics rates the race as a tossup, and their average of recent polls writing the race -- tightening the race a little bit today.

now on to south dakota for the governors debate where republican governor dennis do guard against challenger, susan wismer. governor do guard was first elected in 2010 with 61% of the vote. this is courtesy of south dakota broke -- public broadcasting and runs an hour. >> you are watching a production of south dakota public broadcast. >> welcome to election 2014 brought to you by south dakota public broadcasting mia r.p. south dakota and the south dakota newspaper association. we have teamed up to bring you south dakota's gubernatorial debate.

here are the rules and the instructions. each candidate will have a one minute opening statement. each candidate will have the opportunity for a one-minute closing statement at the end of the debate. the questions have been solicited from the friends of south dakota public broadcasting, members of aarp south dakota and members of the south dakota newspaper association. i will ask the questions on behalf of all three partners. we do ask that each can it did -- candidate limit their answers to 90 seconds or less. each candidate will have 30 seconds for a bottle, should -- for a rebuttal, should they feel that they needed, and each candidate will have equal opportunity to respond to all questions. now, let's meet our candid it's. -- our candidates. republican candidates governor dennis dugard -- dennis daugaard, independent candidate michael meyers.

democratic candidates, state representative susan wismer. welcome to all of you and thank you for participating in tonight's debate. names were drawn to determine the order of our opening statement. that order will be governor dennis daugaard, then michael meyers, followed by representative susan wismer. governor, you have one minute. you can begin. >> thank you, susan. four years ago i came asking for a job, and you gave me a big one. a lot has changed since then. my family has grown. i have added a daughter-in-law and three new grand kids. one grandchild on the way. a lot more has changed. together we balance the budget without using gimmicks are raising taxes. we stood up to record flooding of the missouri river. we initiated reform of our criminal justice system to make the public safer, to hold offenders accountable and to save money.

we added thousands of jobs recovering through a new post recession high. along the way we added new programs for our young people with programs that are high schools, technical schools, and our public universities. a lot has changed, but there is more that we can do which is why i am asking for your support. i would be honored to serve as your governor in. -- as your governor again. >> thank you very much. you, too, have one minute to speak to our voters. go ahead. >> i am mike myers, independent candidate for office. i am going to be the oldest governor in the united states, but i am not for sale. i have put together my wife and family. my wife passed away seven years ago. i got up background, former ceo of a thousand that hospital. -- of st. mary's hospital, 1000 beds. i taught for 26 years, and i believe it is time. it is time to push back and modify a power structure.

everybody needs a platform. i have five planks. plank one, not for sale. i am not a career politician i will be fighting state corruption. two, education. parent teacher control and funding. plank three, health insurance cooperatives, male standards. plank floor, jobs, living wage, agriculture, industrial hemp, and finally plank five, i am aligned with the cowboy in the -- cowboy-indian alliance regarding the keystone pipelined and the clean water alliance out their opposing the uranium mining. >> thank you very much.

representative, you may now visit with the voters of south dakota. thank you. i am running for governor for the people of south dakota that are not being represented today. i am running because i believe in a healthy, open discussion. competition is good for business. a competition of ideas would be good for state government . and we have not had that in south dakota for a long time. i am running because this administration has failed to recognize how the real -- has failed to recognize the real challenges that the state faces. and those challenges will be addressed until i am governor. -- will not be addressed until i am governor. you know, politics has become more like football. we cheer for our favorite team no matter how well their plane. -- they are playing. but electing the governor is not about team loyalty. it is about choosing a leader with the right priorities in.

so i challenge our viewers tonight. listen for the differences between the ndidates and vote for though once you understand -- though one who understands the challenges that we face in south dakota thank you. >> thanks to all three of you . it's is now time for the question and answer portion kia. names were drawn to determine the order. a first-round would go as follows. michael myers, then representative susan wismer followed by governor dennis daugaard. we will then rotate that order for each new question. michael, here is your question. it is about education. south dakota ranks in the bottom for teacher pay and is dwarfed by all neighboring states. could you concisely answer how you plan to improve south dakota education system for teachers? and this comes from travis in rapid city. >> i come down to parent teacher control. my daughter worked as a teacher

up in central, drove the bus to -- up in centerville. monitored thebus, halls, broke up fights and the playground, did it all. and the mandate that comedown -- that comes down from common core and so one dictate at different kind of way to teach. we need better funding. we need to attract teachers, and we ought to be just a little bit ashamed of ourselves being down there where we are. some of the most important people that will affect the lives of our children and tomorrow's generation. >> all right. thank you very much. representative, you will go next. again, it is travis for rapid city uses this and about education. could you concisely answer how you plan to improve south dakota's education system for teachers?

>> it is about your priorities reflecting what you say to the voters when he ran for election. -- when you run for election. four years ago this governor was elected is saying there is no budget crisis. and i value education, but when he got to the capitol he said, oops, we have a problem here, folks. we need to cut the budget, and everyone will share in the paint. -- share in the pain. i'm even going to cut my salary $15,000. education and, your share is 50 million. and then when we found that we had drastically overreacted to the situation and came back the next year, education and health care as well took a -- did receive some funds back, but they received a much smaller percentage back them what we had -- than what we had taken away from them in the first place. i am a member of the legislative planning committee that met this summer and heard superintendents

come and talk about the disaster we have created in south dakota for local schools. even superintendents from large schools came and said, we have robbed all of the good teachers we can find. the pipeline is empty. the free market works, and we should not be surprised that it has worked in south dakota. the first answer to correcting the problem is a change in the direction from the governor's office, a change in priorities, and a respect for education that we do not see coming now from the capital. thank you. >> all right. governor, same question. could you concisely answer how you plan to improve south dakota's education system for teachers? >> education is our number one priority. every year we spend the largest share of our general fund appropriation on education before any other topic. when we build the budget, almost half of the budget is spent on

education. when we begin the budget process we first find an inflationary increase for education, and then after funding necessary things if there's money left over it also goes to education. now, the national education association says we are 51st in pay for teachers. that same study also shows we are 309th in revenue per -- 39 in revenue per student. in the difference between 51st 39 is how that money is spent at the local level. local school boards determine how teachers are paid, not the state government. now, we have our workforce shortage for teachers, just as we have for engineers, accountants, i to professionals, and others. it is difficult for employers to hire in certain categories of occupations. some people say the state gives lip service to education. that is not true. i don't call spending the last three years increasing $40 million to education and onetime dollars of 30 million more lip service.

the bottom line is to you can't spend money you don't have. i am happy to spend more money and education if it's available. -- on education if it's available. i am proud of the investments we have made in education and look forward to doing more. >> all right. we do have time for rebuttals, if you feel that you need it. mike, you can begin. you have 30 seconds. >> i'm in the business of selling j.d. degrees. the students to walk out there with 40, 50, $70,000 in non this -- non-dischargeable debt. and we now find that people at the social security level are engaged in the largest default in education. so this education investment to we need to make sure that when we invest that kind of money in education there is an opportunity in the market for return. >> representative, would you

like you're 30 seconds? >> yes, please. today we have millions more dollars in the bank then we did when this governor took office. if we were truly concerned about education we would prioritize education over money in the bank. the governor started this distracting statistic about 39th place when actually south dakota is in very last place by far for their share of money that the state puts in education. it is only because of the local effort that it gets above there. >> governor, you, too, have 30 seconds. >> it is important to distinguish between the source of money in the availability of -- and the availability of money. the important thing is how much revenue is available, not where it came from. and in south dakota we are 39 in revenue per student. again, it is depending upon whether revenue is spent at the local level. those are decisions that are

locally made and should be. to the extent that the state has dollars available, i am supportive of increasing investment in education. but i won't spend money we don't have. >> we will move on to the next question. representative susan wismer, you will go first. the question is on health care. with a number of baby boomers across out to cover reaching -- across south dakota reaching senior citizen status from what efforts need to be done at the state level to ensure our health care system is capable of handling the increase in health care needs for our baby boomers, especially in our rural areas of south dakota. again, representative, you will go first. your 90 seconds starts now. >> thank you. the first thing we could do is expand medicaid because we are -- because in not expanding medicaid, we are passing on $5 million a week investment in our in state health care institutions. i will stay away from the rest

of the medicaid expansion discussion, assuming that we will talk about that later. but not expanding medicaid is having severe effects on the health of all of our institutions because they were not -- when the affordable care act was passed, it was passed with the assumption that there would be far fewer patients that did not have insurance, that there would be a far less degree of uncompensated care. but because we do still have 48,000 not covered residence our our hospitals still have the same degree of not compensated care that they did before the affordable care act came into place. and so there for the health of our rural institutions is threatened because of their high bad debt level of. also, in regards to providers for our elderly, our state needs to continue its investment in our medical schools here, and we have been able to increase the

slot and also to increase their residencies that are available here in south dakota because we need to make sure that the providers that we train your we are able to sustain here in the state. >> thank you. governor, you go next. again, as the question, with a number of baby boomers across the state reaching senior citizen status, what efforts need to be done at the state level to make sure that the health care system is capable of handling the increase in health care needs for the baby boomers, especially in rural areas of south dakota? >> south dakota has a very good health care system, especially in our larger cities. the problem that we face is the availability of access to health care in our rural areas, and that is a problem i have tackle head-on. i appointed a primary care task force the first year i was in office to study what we can do to improve access to health care

in our rural areas. a number of steps have already been taken. we expanded the medical school. more doctors produced in south dakota improves the likelihood that more doctors will stay in south dakota to land some of -- will stay in south dakota, and some of them will stay in rural areas to be also expanded the physician's assistant program. we had ten slots for in-state students and ten slots for out-of-state students. we converted debt to five strata state and 24 in state we also created payments for clinical experiences for midlevel practitioners like physician's assistants and nurse practitioners. and then particularizing our attraction to the rural area , we created several programs to give medical professionals experience in rural areas, like the farm program in the rehab -- and the rehab program that gives students into the area, into the small towns in south dakota and give them experience

in this critical areas. finally, we added dollars for recurring incentives. -- recruiting incentives. health care facilities can in said medical professionals to come to their area either through giving them a payment when they come where promising -- or promising them to reimburse their tuition if they stay in the rural area. i am proud that we have done a lot to improve access and rural areas. >> thank you. mike, would you like me to repeat the question? >> i am ready to go. >> you have 90 seconds. go ahead, sir. >> medicine that becomes an -- medicine has become an epidemic, unimpeded it is going to drive us into a social political and financial bankruptcy. and that put together some of these systems. and with regard to the baby boomers to my host of 527 over radio programs, and i did the senior help line.

this is an area that needs to be controlled to when these to be regulated. by the way, we have these concentrated vertically integrated systems. where is teddy roosevelt when you need him? take a look at the not-for-profit behavior of the systems. they advertised by the millions of dollars in executive. and we all retreat. remember, access saves but access skills. -- but access kills. my model will be the establishment for the health care cooperative, the insurance mechanism. and i have a lot of ideas on how to lower premiums to maybe 30 percent. we have to get our hands around the system that is virtually out of control. >> thank you. we do have time for rebuttals on this issue. representative susan wismer, you would go first to feel like. -- if you would like. >> an additional element of health care is definitely our

nursing homes the nursing homes have suffered six-figure operating losses during this governor's term in office. we have lost a few nursing homes. i was just to a fund-raiser in the local community in my legislative district that was changing the way it was organized so that it could hopefully survive for a few more years in the will to provide the -- and be able to provide the care to its local residents. the poor services in our local -- the core services in our local communities are in danger of disappearing because of the policies of this administration. fax we will move on. governor you have time for , rebuttal. >> it is important to know the facts. during the nicolson administration moratorium was placed on the number of nursing-home beds and south -- in south dakota. over the years as different

levels of care have been created the number of health care, the number of people seeking care in nursing homes is gone down is -- has gone down. we are in on a union at the number of a moratorium. and it is true that some populations have shifted to larger metropolitan areas, smaller nursing home areas, rural nursing-home areas are having more difficulty. that is the nature of the population shift. not a concentration of the way supported in is the nursing homes. >> you go to come have 30 seconds if you would like to rebuttal. >> i endorsed the expanse of medicaid. but i want priority given to what you're talking about. we all get old. is a serious problem. want micaid expanded.

priority given to senior centers. >> you will go first this time. this one is on medicaid. here is the question. there are a lot of people between 50 and 64 who have worked their whole lives and the medical insurance and don't qualify for insurance through these changes. -- the exchanges. the decision to not expand medicaid was made during the past legislative session. even though some lawmakers were not in favor of the decision, as governor what will you do to make sure those individuals who don't qualify for insurance or need assistance get the help that they need. this was sent to us by max, and he is a member of the aarp. >> thank you for the question. medicaid is certainly a very important program. today we have roughly 160,000 south dakota's who today are on medicaid. these are children mostly. some adults with disabilities, and some people who have

low-income, low income elderly adults. and medicaid is a good program, but i worry about the federal cost of expanding medicaid. we already have two entitlement programs, social security and medicare, which are on track for bankruptcy and nothing seems to be done about that. i also worry about the state cost. if we expanded medicaid next year it would cost 10 -- $2 million, and then 10 years later, 10 million, then 26 million, than 36 million. those are dollars that cannot be spent on education or other human needs. and what about the 48 thousand folks who would qualify for medicaid if there was an expansion? today canf of them either have private insurance already, or can get subsidized insurance on the federal health care exchange, as little as 2%

of their income. all of that being said, it is important to distinguish between medicaid insurance availability and access. we talk to the last question about any access to health care. i'm proud of the progress we've made in access and i will work hard to improve access in the years ahead. >> thank you, governor. mike, you will go next. the question is from max. he is from aarp and he asks, as governor, what will you do to make sure those individuals who do not qualify for insurance or who need assistance get the help that they need? we are talking about medicaid. >> mom and dad and grandpa's spend money on us. we need $3 million or $4 million more. it is time we will support those people at that part of their life because we all may be their.

there. all of the minimum wage andstants that came in , inged mom and dad diaper will spend money on those people. i will spend money on the people that need it with case after case after case whose life savings have been spent because dad had a stroke and went to a nursing home. let's spend money on the kids and let spend money on us old folks. >> thank you, mike. representative to we need to -- representative with murder, do you need me to repeat the question? >> no thank you. >> go ahead. >> i think i will address the access questionnaire and furs. the governor mentioned that however the 48,000 people do not have access to preventive care that is the most efficient type of care they only have access to

emergency rooms and that is the most efficient type of care. -- the most inefficient type of care. so if they did expand medicaid we would pay to allow the health care system to provide services in a more efficient manner. regarding the stake cost the -- the state cost, the economic studies have shown the cost is potentially nothing said -- the cost is essentially nothing. the economic return on having $272 million per year extra into our economy would far outweigh and multiplied as the economic multipliers do such as the cost would be nothing. as far as the federal cost to -- and when the state cost would step up, we are seriously over estimating and overstating what the state cost would be. the way the law is written now that would be 10 years before the state would take in

appreciable share of the cost. furthermore it all medical studies because there were several task force is the last couple of years it was taken for granted that if and when we did expand medicaid we would have a provision to hold the state harmless. >> it is time if you would like to go back for a rebuttal governor if you would like. you have 30 seconds. >> first of all, the mayor -- thee with representative stated those covered by medicaid expansion only has access to emergency care that is not true nearly half today have private insurance or can't get subsidized health insurance for subsidized health insurance for as little as 2% of