died. the paper's operations. he talked about his life and in ar and a cease and -- c-span profile interview. this is one hour. ben bradlee, how do you feel about leaving your post that you have been in for 20 some years? >> i feel great about it. i feel excited about the new things to do. i feel excited about the quality of the team that is going to take my place. i feel wonderful about the leadership, the owners of this newspaper. they are special people.

they have set this newspaper on a path that is the best there is. >> what are you going to do? >> i'm going to do so many different things. this, ias contemplating talked to a number of people. jokeya lot of suggestions. don't go to the post office and safeway on the same day. be a director of the washington post and the herald tribune. i have a contract to write two books. i'm going to be a vice president of the newspaper. not quite sure what that means. i have just finished a documentary television film that the post has made about how we

got into the gulf and the first place. nothing to do about the war but how we got there. do -- when youto , you can't do pro bono things. that shows you are a partisan of something. i have not done any. my wife and i are going to take on the capital funded drive for children's hospital. $40 million, we are going to try to raise in five years. we are indebted to that hospital. our kid was sick. they saved him. i have a couple of other things. some people have asked me to do something that i can't talk about yet, but it is interesting. >> those books, what will they

be about? that the this theory bringnd our business - toerstanding and skills reading a newspaper that the average person does not. story that quotes an anonymous source and you know who it is. the average person does not. there were a lot of things i think i could explain in a non-stuffy, hopefully well-written way. >> through like strunk's elements of style. >> if i could take a reader through a newspaper and say, this is what you ought to look for. >> no more? -- memoir? all have ulcerative --

sorts of material on it. i am having trouble with the first-person singular. newspaper have been told to park that, leave it. i find it hard to say i. >> you read memoirs of others? >> i have always been interested in memoirs. -- ie been interested in remember kennedy telling me once most interesting part of journalism is describing somebody. what are they like? what is he really like? i find it hard to do, but i am interested in it. >> have you read any memoirs where you said, this is what i want mine to be? or the opposite? >> there are people who talk about themselves in a vain and it seems to me bad way.

acheson's books were very good. i thought the book was very good. i got -- i read iliac is on -- elia kazan's books. it seems that he had trouble with the first-person singular. >> you mentioned your son, who survived -- >> he is nine. he had something called a ventricular defect. it is a hole in his heart. he was born with it.

threee was eight pounds, at children's hospital , a doctor went in there and hole.a patch on to the who did it lined. -- blind. he is terrific. he was left with all sorts of other problems, but he has conquered them one by one. job,u mention in your past you could not be a member of a pro bono organization to raise money. why not? >> the theory is if you run the united givers fund, how is the newspaper going to cover them without confusing the reader'ss? if we write a story about children's hospital, the reader

is liable to say, bradley is on bradlee is onradle that board. >> we are trying to avoid having demonstrators -- reporters covering a demonstration with a button showing their appearance -- sympathies. >> you mentioned writing a book about how to read a newspaper. what do you say to that? we don't like it. there are parts of our profession that are lazy about it.

there are parts of the political process, people in it to our lee's he. who are lazy. i think it is doors -- i think editors ought to, i think we have done it more than we have to. there is a lot you can do to narrow it down. reader.the a you say your source is male or female, that would help. pentagon or state department. by shaving it, you get the source down to a segment of society at least. that helps the reader. it takes longer, another four or five phone calls.

there is a book about the three blindlled " mice." i am stunned how much is on the record. he said, you can get it if you have the time. he says, you guys do not have the time. we have the time -- more than people think. sometimes it is 7:30 at night, there's not much you can do about it. >> how many people in the newsroom right for a living for the paper? >> i'm sort embarrassed i don't know the answer. probably about 300. the table of -- organization has 625 or 630 names. quite a few of those are vacant. we are trying to cut back.

the economy is so lousy. you have a tremendous support force. telephone operators. dictationour nests -- ists. artists who are vital to the paper. editors who are not writers but help people right. >> you first came here when? >> i first came here christmas eve, 1948. i have worked at the washington post parts of six decades. it seems unbelievable. it seems unbelievable that i went to work christmas eve. that seems, in retrospect, dumb. showboating. they didn't need me christmas. there is no news.

i worked as a reporter for 2.5 a low metro reporter. see reporter. covering courts and cops. >> were you before here? >> -- where were you before here? >> i came here from a little paper in new hampshire. that a bunch of us started after the war. it was a independent sunday paper. i breathe that exists in england but has to much died out here. there were a couple in new england. we had the biggest circulation in the state. we had a terrific time. >> who was the guy you fought with? he worked for the union leader? do not why i'm talking about? --

do you know who i am talking about? >> there are hundreds of them. i don't remember that from one particular -- >> i try to the give it before we sat down -- i tried us to think of it before we sat down. before you started that paper, what did you do? >> a thought in the u.s. navy. the u.s. navy. i was on destroyers the whole time, in the pacific ocean. i had what was called a good war. i got a lot of action. important forly my life. i am sometimes embarrassed to admit it. >> why? disputest believe

between nations should be resolved by war. and traveling old in a destroyer around the pacific ocean. and wondery kids now how they could possibly get that kind of responsibility that early in their lives. or 21 and a greek major, driving destroyers around. it was a formative thing for me. i loved it. i guess i was pretty good at it. >> you grew up in boston? >> grew up in boston. sort of a bent silver spoon. mother came from new york but my father was an

all-american football player at harvard. of as a vice president bank until the depression when he went broke. very typically of him, he thought he wanted to repay the people whose money that had invested. that took about 15 years to do, but he did it. >> why in the world did you study classics? >> iran into a greek professor -- i went to a prep school in the middle of massachusetts -- he got me interested. i don't know why. gowas funny, it was fun to around with that skill of classical greek. ale has a -- i also had girlfriend who was privately tutored and she had been taught

classical greek. we could communicate that way. at college, at harvard, there as a professor who was wonderful teacher. i studied under him, too. it seems so ridiculous now. >> when you read about the change here at the post, everybody loves to talk about the boston brahman versus the ohio milkmen. will that make a difference? >> if i were him, i would bring me.- brain i would be so sick of all these eulogies i'm getting. which are really quite -- i'm not false modesty.

i know what i have done. i notice an extraordinary team around here. -- know it is an extraordinary team around here. i know the course was determined, and i got here. lyndon johnson made the editor the ambassador to the united nations just before the end of his term. still runningman, a newspaper in maine with all rigorgorous and injure -- and energy. he must be reading the stuff and want to bring me, too. -- brain me getting tired of, too. brain me, too.

>> getting sick of talking about yourself? >> my kid said come up a fork in me, he is done. normally you have somebody that has five minutes and hasn't done much homework. they want to talk about watergate and the pentagon papers. i don't feel that i have been able to convey much. milkman.o the ohio doesn't matter what your it matter is -- does what your background is? would you recommend somebody today going to communication school? >> no, i wouldn't do that either. i think a standard education with a liberal arts education would be the best.

thing you go back to russ wiggins who never went to college. probably the most educated man i ever met. he would give me two or three books a night to read. downie has been here for 26 years. to say he is a son of an ohio milkmen is ridiculous. he went to ohio state and i went to harvard. those are accidents that neither one of us had anything to do with. he is going to be different from me. big deal. the paper is not going to be different. >> if constitutional -- a on theutional convention first amendment were held today,

what would happen? >> i don't know. the 10 amendments -- commandments couldn't pass, either. i suppose the bill of rights would have trouble. -- i tryomething that to worry about things i'm going to face and things i can do something about. i don't have to get the first amendment or bill of rights passed. it is past. >> were those men, were they extraordinary or is there something that would lead to the same -- >> they were extraordinary people. you don't see their like now. to try torrassing compare those people with the people up there now. >> what you think of today's politicians? ? >> >> are probably think about them the way they think about

i probably think about them the way they think about me. in thecess is drowning difference between substance and fact. i think television has done a lot about that. there are days when i have yearned for the smoke-filled room. it seemed to me it produced some pretty, some quite extraordinary people. i don't think that when everything is done in the blinding spotlight, you have people fighting to get in front of a television camera and say something in a louder voice or i don't think that the average politician is a hell of a lot better than the

average editor or the average businessman. may be a little better than the average businessman. >> or do people change in front of these things -- why do people change in front of these things? >> it is the heisenberg principle in physics. the examination of an object changes the object. the act oft a cell, looking at that cell means it is not a cell, it is some thing else. that politicians love inc., they look to be in the paper tot is nothing compared their love of light and lenses. i see people talking in front of a television camera and not

saying anything. they are really not. they have a speech. been on television because of my retirement, and i am saying the same thing over and over again. i launch into a story and i say, you have to try that -- you are going to try that one more time? i can't believe it. kennedy, who was the first television president, used to tell these stories. he would change the names of people just to keep himself on his toes. he had a story about the lights going out at the connecticut legislature. he would change the name of the speaker of the legislature, just to see if the reporters were on their toes. >> right before this started, i was down the hall in the men's room.

one of the top editors said, what are you doing? i said, i'm here to do an interview with ben bradlee. he said, you know he is nothing like his image. he is really a soft guy. he is a sensitive guy. >> i paid them all off. >> he is a warmhearted guy. what is your reaction? >> you got the right guy. i had him waiting in there for you today. image, myhat people's image, there is a lot of my image tied up in that movie. men."he president's i don't know. any answers self-serving. self-serving.is

i care a lot about people. is given aeditor certain amount of brains and energy. he is really a coach. he tries to find the best players and give them the best plays. what i was getting at is when you read any article about you, people try to characterize you. his walk is john t. -- jaunty. have you ever read a piece where you said, that is hogwash? impressed at how people who do try to do stories about you feed off each other. the raspy voice, i have a raspy voice. say, we have ato

arynx.n our l i don't take myself seriously. jaunty, that you makes you jaunty. computer, people can pull up any stories about you so you have the sharks feeding in the same pool. >> you have something about a -- you are referring to -- what is that? >> if someone reads the washington post and their head falls into the bowl of oatmeal, you have done a bad job. you have been known to refer to wler?ry as a four-bo >> i don't the guy have.

i am not interested in boring death.to i think a good newspaper ought to be exciting and have good writing. any use, entertain. as well -- amuse, entertain. as well as inform and be useful. to have a certain irreverence which people talk about -- i have a certain irreverence which people talk about. i am not impressed by the office you hold. i'm impressed by what you are like. i have seen a lot of people in my time here who hold high office. who are treated with a certain attitude because of that office, not because of who they are or what they do. >> who in your years in politics or journalism, or in any field,

has impressed you the most with the job they are doing? who are the people you admire? >> i don't know. i look at the people that i think have done a tremendous job under difficult circumstances. dean rusk as secretary of state had one of the most thankless jobs in the world. me, and what my greek teacher used to call a sober second thought, did a tremendous job. there are people who ran departments. secretary of labor during johnson's administration. >> kennedy and johnson. i am not prepared for that question.

without having a long list, i don't think there are a lot of there are some politicians who i think do a good job, who are on the good side. >> you have a favorite president? >> kennedy, he was the president i knew the best and was closest to. with -- thatrip had been arranged by tom lovejoy, and assistant secretary. a great environmental exi expert. we went down to the rain forest in brazil with congressman. led by senator tim worth of colorado.

gore. and lots of other people. -- seem to beake good people. >> can you talk about how presidents have dealt with people? people that have done it the wrong way and the right way? the fact that george bush has met with the press so often, did that work to his advantage? and wisely presidencies as you saw them from your post -- analyze the presidencies as you saw them from your post? >> i have been interested in which presidents like the press.

they are all dependent on the press, including television. my god, they are in office because of the press. abilities withr the press. whoe are not many understand and like the press. kennedy was successful with the press because he was interested in it. he knew about it and cared about it. when a no, just the way you and know, who's going to be on the cover of time. johnson -- he didn't like the press much. i think he understood the press. understood its position in society.

richard nixon was fighting with the press from day one. did not like it. but the press was all best words him.stards, out to get ard to build a relationship with people who you think that about. gerald ford had a good relationship with the press. carter felt the seized -- beseiged. he felt the press was northern and elite, quite like lyndon johnson. he quickly felt isolated and high still -- hostile. reagan, who was the best manipulator of all of them,

handling the press was a role to him. he was good at it. he didn't like the press and did not understand the press. he didn't understand their role in society. that is the problem with these people. they and the press have a common job. they do not. the white house press officer, the press system, their job is to tell the truth to the country in the way that makes them look best. our job is to try to find the truth, period. and mind you, they all lie to the press. as soon as those lies start coming in, it is difficult to

treat them the same. who was definitely a friendly and decent person, he looks you in the eye and says clarence thomas is the best person he can find to be on the supreme court. and the appointment had nothing to do with race. that is not true. press recognizes that and as as him in a way -- result of that single statement. that is going to make him enemies. >> is that story true about george bush asking you to the white house? >> he asked me to lunch one day. not making anyas progress with mary.

i said, i forgot what the hell i said. i said that is a credit to marry. >> the story is -- this is the way it was written. have a dinner and talk to her, try to talk her out of saying those things to me. >> good luck. >it wouldn't do good. if you try to understand the mary. -- understand mary. she is a great listener. >> why does he care about a one columnist? >> they want them all. they don't want a handful of call masts -- columnists. they want them all. that is human nature.

get sore as hell at a correspondent for 20 minutes. he would get sore as hell at papers. he banned the new york world tribune. and was in a serious man. he would's -- it was not a serious ban. he would send somebody to the drugstore so he could read them, even as he had said the paper was banned. >> back to the presidency. techniques. have all of them called you directly over the years? >> i don't think so. kennedy did. nixon did, funnily enough. for a very brief time, a couple of saturdays. slow timeorning was a

for editors as well as presidents. he once called. i thought it was somebody imitating him for the first time. - we talked a little bit. i have talked to them. >> does it matter when they call? >> sure it matters. if the operator says, just a minute, the president is calling. if you believe it, sure it matters. you wonder first what they are calling about. andy you know anything about it -- and do you know anything about it. >> other than the pentagon papers, what was the toughest assisting you made regarding whether to print something? >> it is hard to tell you about the stories we decided not to print.

there is no point in deciding not to print them and then deciding to broadcast them. >> can you tell us the areas? >> national security matters. if you get a story, and somebody tells you it is against the interests of your country to publish that, you have got to listen to that. we got to become trouble making a rule that if anybody who had the credentials said that, we would say, we will not print it tomorrow. we will convene a group and look into it. may be printed the next day -- it the next day. i can to you i have almost never heard a claim of national security that ended up as a fact of national security.

richard nixon said he could not tell the truth about watergate because it involved -- the security. -- because involved national security. that was baloney. sometimes it is a tough decision, a tough call. but i can remember stories we had. one story bob woodward had about money toiving some king hussein of jordan. not walking around money, economic or military aid. there was no question it was true. i got a call from, from jody powell. he had gone to the carter white house to find out if it is true or not. owell said, if- p

you would like to talk to the president, you can. carter was disarming. the furthest -- the first thing it was true. we knew it was true but we didn't have anybody with the 's title telling it was true. then he said, he wasn't going to vegas not to print it. i think the secretary of state was in the area at the time, and he said it would be very embarrassing. they were trying to settle the middle east. the existence of the story would make it harder. i've forgotten exactly what we did. we agreed we would wait a day so

the secretary of state could at the king hussein the story was coming out. was based on the settlementny piece that took place without that being public knowledge had no ance. it is vital for the american public to know that they had a king on the payroll. >> i wanted to ask you, what do you think of bob woodward'ss technique of sourcing a lot of material? >> i am in all of his technique we of his technique of

reporting. the energy he puts into going back. to talk to people 40 times. no reporter has that kind of patience and energy. he obtained information on the basis that he -- of confidentiality. felt in his judgment, and i don't quibble, that he would not get it without that promise. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know who is talking to him. george bush knows. you know. thought the way he handled

that at the beginning of the book, if you pay attention and read it, you understand what is going on. >> you know him well, you trust him. what do you feel about -- that technique? >> either people would learn to but i think that is beyond the capacity of most politicians to learn. if every reporter was doing it, reporters would quickly start saying who the hell the other reporter's sources were. that is not what is wrong with journalism today, the anonymous source. it gets in the way, casually on smaller stories. it is not the problem with -- is not a flaw with woodward's book.

people have focused on it. you know who is talking to woodward. interesting a good, argument about whether it was cheney or powell. >> why did they do it? >> because the truth is interesting. they are interested. i think they wanted, they believed the public -- if the public really knew how this happened, the world would be in better shape. we would know how we went to war. if we knew how we went to war, we would reduce the chances of going to war. what do you think of "usa today?" >> i always get asked because i said, if that is the future of

journalism, i am glad i'm getting out. that is still true. as far substance is concerned, it trivializes the news at a time when the news is collocated -- complicated. they have done some wonderful things as far as design and readability is concerned. i envy them their capacity to print color, even know if we had that capacity, we would not print anything like that. by the time you get through the arrows and flashing lights, it is television. but, i love newspapers. i love all newspapers. good luck to them. they have not made a success out

of it. is not a financially viable investment yet. it has been close to 10 years. >> the washington times. >> i don't think much of it. i really don't -- every time i say anything about them, they will haul out a picture of me taken eight years ago with a bandage on my cheek. when i had a mole removed or some be like that. -- something like that. that theraordinary head of a religious organization picks up a deficit of $35 million a year, year after year, and the president of the u.s. says it is a great paper and he reads it.

if the jehovah's witnesses backed him to their tomb, you would not even touch it. >> you feel the same way about the christian science monitor? >> i don't read it anymore. i am more it about that. they have had some wonderful journalists over the years. i don't see it anymore. >> reed irvine? >> i put him on the map. i made a statement that he used to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars. i think what i said about him is true but i do not want to say it again. he has improved journalism much. >> you listen to him? >> i listen to everybody. canink his criticism, i spot a story in the paper that will produce a letter from him,

he sort of laid off us for a while. he shows up -- he ended couple of others show up at the annual meeting of the stockholders. from which i was banned. they thought i would get in a fight with irvine. some of those other people. >> you have an ombudsman. why? >> i am proud of that. i think that is a good institution. not terribly popular in this country. i don't know how many there are. of all the daily newspapers, there are only a handful, 30 or 40 that have them. the average daily washington post contains maybe 150,000 words. absolutely impossible for one

person to have monitored that carefully for all the things and editor should monitor it for. to have an independent person newspaper for fairness, accuracy, and idea.nce is a good the editor is surrendering some authority. he is the only person on the staff who has a contract. he cannot be fired. he can write what he wants. i can't change his copy. >> can he be fired after his two years are up? >> he is told he is being hired for two years.

the theory is, that is about it. post,n't go back to the can't go back and be an editor or reporter. he truly is independent. i went searching around, when we started this, thanks to our assistant managing editor for foreign news at that time. we went around looking for money to see if we could get it financed independently from the grants. that is the last tie that would sever any tie at all. i went to mentor and bundy -- bundy and he left me

laughed me out- of court. so we pay him. we have had good ombudsman and better ombudsman. we have never had a better one than the current one. he is fabulous. is more insightful about our business than anybody we know. in thisthan 10 minutes w.tervie you made a comment about smoke-filled rooms. in a smoke-filled room, nobody is playing to a camera. everywherelse --

else, everything is a photo op. the average, uninterrupted speech by a politician in the campaign was nine seconds on television. >> soundbites. >> i don't know what the best system is, but i know that is not it. >> what do we get because of it? >> you get the person who handles television the best. who employwith -- the people who handle television the best. it gave you kennedy. kennedy was a more attractive television candidate than the. than nixon.en -- >> would he have ever been elected in the back room?

>> i don't know. a lot of the back room politicians were catholics. they might have produced kennedy. running against kennedy was lyndon johnson, who was not at that stage a great favorite of the bosses. >> what is your perception of television news? how has it changed the way the washington post comes out every day? i think that for years the post has been edited by people partealize an appreciable of the news in your paper has been available on television and radio before the paper comes out. that the most important part --

not the most important part, always. when you get on a roll like ergate television, didn't cover it well. it was not photogenic. news -- i network think what cnn is doing and what you guys do has changed, we edealt thecards -- r cards. you take out whether an stocks for the average network news, you probably have 20 items. ather an stocks, 22 minutes.

andou want to know more, our theory here is you cannot ss youown a job unle know more, you have to go to a newspaper. >> did you hire tom shales? >> he was kicking around here and a lower capacity. he started writing television and everybody knew he was terrific. >> you're probably not unaware that people in the television business scream loudly every time he write a piece. what is your thinking? did you know he was going to be that critical? >> i think he is in love with television. he loves television. eye to it. critical it seems to me his enemies

rotate. he has different enemies every year. i consider that a good sign. it is a sign that he is being fair. this is how he feels. somethingt have against one network or one person. >> did you hire him because he writes well or understands television well? >> both. i think he is funny and amusing. he doesn't worship television or itnot an all of it -- awe of just because it is a president. of the network, does not make tremble. he is very hard to corrupt. >> what has he done to you? >> nothing.

he has always said nice things. i hear about a lot of different employees. my wife and i play games, going out -- going into a crowded room. was going to come up first. how long will it be before someone comes up and says, why did you do that? >> a couple of minutes of what is your favorite legacy? theyou are most proud of -- thing you did hear that you were the most proud of? >> the style section is a legacy i love. the real legacy is the people. surrounding myself with people who are smarter than i am. who are as dedicated to journalism as i am. terrific. >> what is your view of the

talent? >> terrific. especially the young wom en.there are people working at lower levels of the washington post who are going to be editor someday, just as sure as god made apples. i don't want to name them all. an extraordinary bunch. a lot overseas right now. >> what is the first book of yours going to come out? >> when i stop being interviewed and start writing. >> once your guess? -- what is your guess? >> i would hope to have a draft in a couple of years. it is going to take some time. i need to become comfortable writing about myself. >> you are done. thank you. >> thank you.

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bradlee is survived by his wife and four children. his funeral will be at washington national cathedral. >> will show you some of the women of color empowerment conference from fort lauderdale, florida has c-span coverage of 2014 will continue with the debate from the candidates running for governor of colorado.