dipping into reserves, that is where we got into trouble in the first place. we crossed the line in 2009, dipping into reserves for the first two years before i got into office. we have now built up a reserve. things. we're not talking about dipping into the reserve. were talking about money over and above that. he is lying about my record. i have always been in favor of finding an appropriate weight to consider expanding the -- i've always been in favor of finding an appropriate way to consider expanding the middle class. >> if he believed in that, he would've voted for this year's budget which had $10 million for

students to that a 1% interest rate. he voted against it. >> we should not have a cap. it is the wrong type of thing. the people paying the most taxes and never getting benefits back. we need to take care of the low and middle class without a doubt. we should increase the base level for our income tax rate starts. it should not start at a few thousand or higher. that is where we need to give them a break. every middle-class person. >> governor deal, thousands across the state and counties have cast ballots in this election. sunday voting has upset many in your party who have said they would eliminate and you said you expect lawmakers to bring some degree of uniformity in election law next session. isn't the best solution to

ensure that all 159 counties, every eligible and interested voter has an opportunity to participate and the state support that? >> i would hope every eligible and registered voter exercises their opportunity to vote. i think is going to be an issue that the general assembly will look at because i know there've been complaints from county to county for those who allow sunday voting and those who do not. i want to make voting as easy as possible, and i believe this is an issue that deserves to be debated. it isn't important that we have uniformity as where you are allowed to vote and when and it should not depend on the county in which you live. >> to each of you. >> i fully support sunday voting. it is an important exercise in democracy, and i will be on the side that says if we maximize the number of people that

participate, we will embrace that. it was wonderful to see the long lines outside of the polling places and i wish there were more machines. i love the excitement out there. i embrace it. i believe it is a great a thing. i do not think we should restrict people. >> i concur with both of them. i want to add, being an engineer and nanotechnologist, we need to bring the game up to a higher level. we need to have a recordable, auditable trail on voting. there are lots of different ways we can do with electronic transactions of large amounts of money which could be applied to voting. there's also an auditable trail. our current voting machines have no auditable trail. you take the number and they're all talented up and a number at the end and you cannot go back to individual ballots for the not knowing which person, but you have a written record to verify that our systems are working correctly.

we need to have those. >> some of you are watching this debate on channel 2, and you are sending us questions on twitter. we would have one of the questions. what is your plan to secure a bright future for the agriculture industry in georgia? >> as many of you know, my family has farmed the land of georgia for 10 generations. we farm in southwest georgia. there is a dynamic future for georgia's economy and agriculture. what we need to see is investment and expansion of processing the distribution of those agricultural commodities. we produce more blueberries that almost any other state, yet we send a huge number out of state to be distributed. if we want a vibrant agricultural economy, we can do

that by investing in that process and and distribution infrastructure. given the fact will have the biggest port on the east coast and will allow us to ask for it at our infrastructure is real and vibrant. >> governor deal? >> i did not grow up in chicago, i grew up in middle georgia. i lived on a farm and i was active in ffa growing up. i understand what farmers are faced with. i have family that has been forms for generations. the important thing you should notice is the general assembly has worked with me. we have also created a low interest loan program for small

farmers who can go as part of that process and get a loan where they might not be able to receive that money through a traditional banking restitution. we are very cognizant that agriculture is the number one industry in the state of georgia and one of the major exports through the port of savannah, and i want to keep it that way. >> dr. hunt, please. >> what we have is an overregulated industry. we need more fairness and freedom. there are certain plants that would be great for alternative energy and new fiber sources that are illegal here, legal and other states, because of the name of the plant being the hemp plant. it has no hallucinogenic or drugs or anything related. a great plant that grows with you on the chemicals that are

needed. you have local farmers not being able to do things. urban farmers and small scale that cannot meet the regulations and standards put out on the large corporations in our agricultural centers. we need to have these people that want to do the natural type of farming be more honored and freer to put out their product. we have too much government regulations in many areas that hurt our industries, and i cannot think of one that has been hurt more than agriculture. >> we're going to take a brief rate, but you are going to want to come back with this as we tackle more issues. the candidates will have a chance to question each other. we are back after this. welcome back. the first question is for senator cardin -- carter.

>> do you think it is appropriate for you to take 10,000 dollars a month into your personal bank account from a company that owes the state $74 million in back taxes? >> first of all, i own property, and we're leasing the property. i do not think there is anything wrong with that. it is not determined if they or back taxes, but i have made it clear to the department of revenue that if they own taxes, we will collect every penny. i have asked them to refer it to an independent judge, let him hear the facts, and determine it. if they oh money to georgia, we will collect. i know that you do not really favor private business having success. you'll try to make a great deal out of that. let me assure you that what i have done with my business partner, we have worked hard for 20 years to grow a business. i put it into a blind trust. when it was recommended that we

sell it, we did so. i have used my half of the money to pay business debts, as an honorable individual would do, debts incurred as a result of the recession. >> the next question is from governor deal to dr. hunt. >> we both heard senator carter talk about his plans for funding education, and yet he voted against the largest budget increase of k-12 funding this year. heard him say that he supported charter schools, but did not support allowing the people of a state to vote on an amendment. had you been in the senate, would you have voted for the increased funding this year, or

would you -- and would you, or did you vote for the charter school amendment on the ballot? >> i did vote for the charter school amendment. i believe it is an important thing to have school choices and options out there, the people can choose the different ways of being educated. as far as the budget increase, we need to be careful about that, because we have had a $2.5 billion increase in the taxes collected during your term. we want to have limited government -- that is what you ran on -- and that is what we need to have. we need to focus on limiting the government back again and use the tax dollars wisely. once again, i will point out that we can do it more effectively. there are other countries that are much more effective in teaching per dollar than we are. these are european countries were the cost or sometimes higher than ours to live. let's do what is right. let's absolutely provide the best education in the country. but let's do it cost-effectively. >> the next question from andrew hunt to senator carter.

>> mr. carter, you are lacking measurable things that you will achieve if you happen to be elected governor. i think this is really important. so important that i did a pledge yesterday on social media, tweeted it to you and deal's to see if you would match the pledge, because we have the most corrupt state, high unemployment, poor education. we have excessive health care costs. we have the ninth highest tax rate in the nation. we have grown our tax revenues by more than $2.5 million. $2.5 billion. we have high incarceration rates and is lost to the middle class of $1500 during the last four years. and we have terrible traffic in atlanta that we really have to deal with. >> listen, dr. hunt, i agree with you. we have taken this day and driven into the bottom. but we have every ingredient in georgia to be an absolute powerhouse. i say it time and again. under the governor's leadership, the middle class is falling

behind. they are losing $1500 compared to how much that median income was when the governor took over. you have seen, repeatedly, that the state is dead last in unemployment, dead last and how fast we are recovering from the recession. it is a serious problem, and the only candidate of your who doesn't see it as a problem is governor deal. i look out of the future and i see a state -- and you will see a governor, when i am the governor. the pledge i make is this. you will have a governor that restores honesty. you will have a governor that supports and believes in the value of small business in the middle class every single day. >> once again, you have said some nice things, but there is no measurable end to those. do you want to increase it by 30 states? we are near the bottom, so we

want to increase it by a lot of states. what numbers you want to hit? if you happen to get elected -- hopefully not, hopefully it will be me -- but if you do, i am saying that if i do not reach these things, i will not run for reelection. >> i will tell you this. i promise that i will judge success not like governor deal, based on magazine articles that say we are the number one state to do business. i will judge success on the middle-class families and whether small businesses are getting ahead. and whether our schools are getting what they need. you have heard about statistics and rankings of the candidates, and governor deal has based his entire campaign on a magazine article that says that georgia is a good place to do business. but you and i know better, and the folks at home know that what

is happening in this state is not what should be. we can move forward, period. i will not be satisfied with georgia at the bottom. we will movie stayed up and you'll never hear me claiming success based on magazine articles instead of real results for real people. >> here is what is fascinating. you are all talking about the economy and bringing in different pieces of information. a lot of times our viewers will say to me, how can cnbc say that georgia is the number one state to do business? we are sixth in job creation, we are tops in unemployment. you can cherry pick statistics. i will ask each of you to answer this for me. how do you reconcile statistics that, if you choose these three, it looks like georgia is healthy? if you choose these three, unhealthy? i would like to start with you, dr. hunt. >> what you have is you have people looking at it in

different organizations. like area development, they reward you based on crony deals. they tax the poor and the middle class, given to the wealthy companies, and they give you a high-ranking. they think you are great. we know that is not right. we need different ways. some of these other people put this factor in there, how much money is the state willing to throw at hitting these jobs as a part of the ranking system. and what you really have to look at is how many people do not have jobs and how many are underemployed. how many people are working part-time. that is why my job powerhouse program only rewards full-time jobs and those paying $11 an hour or more. not mandating a minimum wage, but a program of the government does not choose the winners or losers. that is the problem we have right now. >> governor deal, are we healthy or are we not? >> absolutely, we're getting

healthier every day. some of the numbers you just heard are inaccurate. the average family income, the median family income, has increased every year since i have been governor. we have seen the number of employees continue to grow. you do not get to be the sixth highest number of employees created in the last 12 months unless you're doing something right. it is not just a magazine article. and just the other day, senator carter had said that he thought that we should fire all of our economic development team because they just were not professional. within the last several days, the international economic development council has just rated the development team is number one in the country. louisiana and texas are tied for second place. the reality is that we are growing, we will continue to grow, we set the foundation for growth in our state. >> how do you reconcile these

different numbers? >> i am glad you asked the question, because folks at home are hearing the discussion like governor deal just said. our economic development office is getting awards. i believe that a people that judge the economy are the ones that are sitting at home. the people that judge our schools will talk about statistics and make it sound great and cherry pick, as you said, dustin, those statistics. the question is this, if you are sitting at home and you walk into your school, ask if it is getting what it needs from the state. the answer is no. go down to the and employment office and look at the lines. those are real georgians, 380,000 of them looking for work today. go to small businesses and ask them are they getting what they

need. the answer is no. the way we reconcile this is we have an election, and the people of georgia will decide if they want a plan for the future or stick with an economy that has taken us to the bottom. >> i was not saying that governor deal was cherry picking, but that your campaign ads paint two very different pictures. >> i want this to go to governor deal. 34 states have passed medical marijuana laws. you signed an executive order this year that would allow the georgia regents university to start clinical trials -- very limited and it has not started yet. there are several so-called medical refugees out in colorado, parents who have kids with severe seizure disorders that desperately want to come home. there is a bill right now that would provide amnesty. >> i have met with those families and seen the children that are suffering from those seizures, and i have certainly great empathy for them.

several years ago, when a -- one of my youngest granddaughters was suffering from seizures. because i understood that, when the legislature was unable to take action, i immediately contacted the fda and worked with georgia regents university, augusta, to make sure that we could start our own clinical trials and that we would be allowed to participate in the private sector clinical trials that are coming. to answer your question, we will provide these families with every opportunity to solve the problems of the seizures of their children as long as it is safe, legal, as long as it is under the supervision of a medical doctor. >> senator carter, we saw the georgia democratic flyers send

out if flyer saying that you should vote democrat if you want to prevent another ferguson. >> i have not seen the flyer, but georgia is very different than ferguson, missouri. we saw a few weeks ago in savannah i tragic incident, but the credibility of the leadership in the community demonstrated that they could bring people together. and i do believe that it is important that law enforcement have credibility, that the leadership in our state have credibility in order to avoid those situations. i am very proud of the fact that this campaign has traveled to every corner of the state. just yesterday. everywhere that we go, i do not care what you look like, where you come from or everybody else. folks want a new georgia that brings people together and is moving forward on education and the economy.

>> senator carter, one of your economic proposals on education would allow teacher retirement dollars be invested in local torture startups. some worry that that is a risky investment. how do you convince them that that is a good idea? >> teachers have every reason to be skeptical of politicians. the way they have been treated the last several years has been brutal. they had seen their employee benefits just destroyed. my wife is a teacher. i understand the pressure the teachers have been under, so i get that folks are nervous. i would never do anything that would weaken the pension fund. i would never do anything without respecting and communicating with the teachers. i do believe that access to capital is important, and it is not even on the governor's radar screen. we have to make sure that we can support our small businesses, our innovative and dynamic industries in this state,

but we would not do it in any way that would jeopardize the retirement system. >> may i respond? that is certainly interesting, because he did not say that until he got the endorsement of a major teachers organization. both of my parents were retired educators as were my wife's parents. i can assure you of one thing, they do not want their education retirement dollars invested in very sketchy investments. and i put a stop to that, two years ago when we were looking at reforming the investment portfolio. this past year we had a 17.2% return on the teachers' investment programs. i know that senator carter has received a lot of money from the venture capital group. his father is in the venture capital business. i can assure you, as your governor, i will not allow that, because i know what retired teachers depend on, and that is

their retired teacher benefits and social security. >> the governor has accused me of playing politics with education, and he has attacked my family. i will tell you this. i think that is reprehensible and that is false when he said about my father. number two, it is important to me that we do not play politics with education. but governor deal did not do a not do a single thing to help our teachers until it threatened his reelection. every single budget until the election year cut education to the bone. and then he destroyed the benefit plan until it threatened his reelection. the teachers know where i stand. they know that we can and will do a better job for schools, and governor deal's attempt to play politics is just that, the same old stuff. >> i have met with some of the retired teachers organizations,

and they are suffering from the low amount of income and no increases for five or six years. part of that is because of the economic decline and the return on their benefits. it is nice that the economy is coming back and we had a return last year, but at the same time, a diversified portfolio is a wise and prudent thing. when you have a large enough amount of money, you want a blend of different things, including a small percentage that would go into things that give a much higher return that is needed to help keep the teachers and their retirement increasing in benefits as inflation goes up. >> first of all, i did not intend to attack senator carter's family. if his father is not in the investment business, then i apologize for that. let me tell you what he has let me tell you what he has done. he has just told you that i have felt the benefits and the amount of money for public education during my first three years in office -- have cut the benefits and the amount of money for public education during my first three years in office. the truth is that it increased

in every year and senator carter voted for all of those budgets. it was only this year, with the largest increase in k-12 funding has occurred that he saw fit to vote against it. all of those who went with them came back and voted for the budget. he did not. >> may i respond? we have been over this ground many times. governor deal's education budgets have underfunded education by billions of dollars every single year. this year, they underfunded them by $750 million. he is perpetuating the same shell game that has led to 9000 fewer teachers, that has led to 2/3 of the districts cutting instructional days, and he is hiding behind the state budgeting process that has caused 91 school districts since he has been governor to raise property taxes. if you want less education and

higher property taxes, then governor deal's plan is working. i could not support it because we have to do better for the schoolchildren. >> governor deal, step in because he was directly challenged. >> why didn't you offer amendments? you know it was the highest increase, and he voted against it. you say you took this about me tour, nobody that went with you voted against it because it was good. every democrat voted for it but five, including senator carter. his votes do not even represent mainstream democrats in the state. he is on the extreme liberal edge within his own party when it comes to spending your tax dollars. i do not think we can afford for that to happen. >> senator carter, dr. hunt, you will get in but they keep challenging each other.

>> governor deal is angry, but the facts are this did we have underfunded education every single year. he says i had an epiphany tour. it is better to come to grips than to have never seen the problem in the first place. governor deal would have made it all the way to damascus without an epiphany, because anybody that is out there in the schools today knows that we are not supporting the schools to the degree they need. 91 school district have raised property taxes. i have been as fiscally conservative as anyone in the senate. the governor has mischaracterized my record tonight. i promise you, if tax increases are off the table -- we have what we need. if we can ensure accountability for atlanta to fund education. governor deal has stopped looking for answers. >> both of you have truths in what you are saying. first of all, the election-year ploy of you not voting during the biggest increase is a valid point by mr. deal. but at the same time, your

underfunding is also an accurate point, because if you look back at perdue when he was governor and the percentage that went to education, look at a percentage basis, because we have inflation over time. he is underfunding the education system from 57% down to 53% of the budget. this is something that we need to correct, but we need to be more cost-effective, and have a quality of education. we need to get rid of common core. we need to have a variety of schools and get rid of the bureaucracy and put the money back in the classroom. more teachers, less bureaucracy. >> senator carter, some of your supporters were disappointed that you voted in the so-called gun bill. why did you vote for it, and do you want to see other areas expanded, including college campuses? >> i believe that the issue of guns is an important in polarizing one in this state, and what i have done in my time

in the state senate is try to bring people together to find common ground. on this issue, that is what i did. we fought hard to bring republicans and democrats together to tackle a tough issue. i believe in the second amendment, and my record has been consistent. i do believe that we can do more to ensure that we are tackling the true problems of gun violence. and i do not believe that we should ever see guns on college campuses. >> governor deal, college campuses? >> i did not think last year was the appropriate time to take the topic up, not because of what senator carter did. i challenge you to find anybody in the assembly that would say that senator carter had impact on the final version of the gun deal. i do have concerns for the parents that are concerned about their children who are going to class late at night, having to

walk back to their cars in dangerous parts even in our capital city. i understand their concerns, because a student is an automatic target because somebody who is a criminal knows that they are not going to be armed. it is a difficult subject. i do not believe that we need guns in areas where alcohol is being consumed, or ballgames or things of that nature. but we need to make sure that college students are not being victimized. [indiscernible] >> if i'm in the office, i will sign into law i will not put a lot of effort into getting it passed, but i believe in the second amendment and the constitution. i am a constitutionalist, and we'd return to the liberties and freedoms. we have way too many laws and rules. people can say that this helps this or that, but it is stealing the liberties and freedoms our

forefathers died for, gave up their estates for. who has the guns right now? the criminals, and we do not have laws to stop them because they do it no matter what laws you have. it is the law-abiding citizens that we need to have protected. we need to have it so they can protect themselves, because we know the police do not protect them, they are not out there to help them. we need to have right in the state everywhere possible, but i also believe in private property limiting what is done on their property. >> it is time for closing remarks. every candidate will have one minute, and we determined the order by drawing. the first statement comes from governor deal. >> it has been an honor to represent you as your governor. tonight we have senator carter

saying he believes. i too believe, but i have translated beliefs into actions. i believe that we could create a state where we could grow private sector jobs and be designated as the best state in the country to do business even in the midst of a great depression. we have done that. as of tomorrow, 1800 jobs in the last two weeks. i believed that we could save the hope scholarship from going into bankruptcy, and we have done that. i believed that we could make sure that we have funded education properly. you have heard the statement that we are underfunding education. that is a standard that has never been met. no governor -- i repeat again, in my four budgets, that represents the largest increase in k-12 funding in 50 years. i have lived up to my beliefs and put them into practice. >> next from senator carter. >> you have heard, tonight, governor deal make excuses for why this state is dead last in unemployment. you have heard him say that this

is the best he can do for our education system. you have heard him talk about private sector jobs, but just last month, governor, 15,000 private sector jobs were lost in this state. we are not on the right path, but we have everything we need to be a powerhouse. if we have a governor that recognizes the value of small business and makes education the first priority every year, we will have the georgia that we want. you have not heard governor deal say one thing about the future of this state. it has all been about his record. but look at his record. see how it feels in your family. the bottom line is that georgia is not where it needs to be, and we can take it there with dynamic policies that take into the future instead of excuses. >> dr. hunt? >> i have been very blessed to go through this process because

i have met in person with more than 30,000 georgians. i have heard what concerns you. you have concern about career politicians. you have the concern about too many attorneys in office. you have the concern that we are not educating our children well and there is not enough jobs. college students are saying will there be a job when i leave school? we need to correct all of that, and i have solid plans. go to my website and you will see that. a vote for hunt means a vote for jobs. it means a vote for no common core, an excellent education. a vote for hunt means that you're going to have fairness and freedom and not cronyism. we will end special interest deals. you have a choice -- a night and day choice. i am an engineer and nanotechnologist, and i am putting it all out for you.

>> this concludes the debate for georgia governor. we thank you for watching. please join me next sunday, 11:00 a.m., when will be hearing from the candidates for senate. election day is tuesday, november 4. we hope you have a wonderful evening. we will see you again tonight at 11:00. >> with the 2014 midterm election over a week away, the debate coverage continues. today at 7:00 eastern, the illinois senate debate with senator take urban and jim oberweis. then the massachusetts governor debate. at 9:00, the georgia senate debate between david perdue, michelle nunn, and amanda

swafford. 11:00, the hawaii governor's debate between candidates. tuesday evening at 8:00, the new jersey senator debate. wednesday night at 8:00, live coverage of the louisiana senate debate between three candidates. maine senate debate. senate0, it is the texas debate between senator john cornyn and david alameel. more than 100 debates for the control of congress. are a few of the e-mails we have received. c-span provides an most valuable service to the american

people by providing focus and coverage on the most important issues facing our nation. our government needs constant monitoring that is only available on c-span as the other networks will not provide the coverage. book tv is also great for the serious reader who likes to keep informed. kyst of all, no pes commercials. >> christine sent this e-mail. >> i wanted to thank you for the west virginia senate debate. i also like they you allow your viewers to error there opinions on edited. from massachusetts wrote -- >> i am wondering if all your e-mails even get read. i have sent many e-mails. i have never seen one of my e-mails on "the journal."

boringfileclerk seems to get plenty of attention with e-mails being broadcast all the time. tweet.can send us a c-spane conversation. >> now to the colorado governor's debate. listsok political report this race as a tossup. cbs 4ebate is courtesy of tv in denver and colorado public television. it is about an hour. >> cbs 4 and cpt 12 present the gubernatorial debate. >> thanks for joining us for this gubernatorial debate.

>> gentlemen, thank you both for being here for the final debate of this election season. >> john hickenlooper is running for his second term. he ran after serving for two terms as denver's mayor. he moved to colorado in 1981 as a geologist, but lost his job in the economic downturn. in 1988, he opened his first brew pub. he has one son. >> bob beauprez is a colorado native. he served in congress for two terms before running for governor in 2006. he has managed both a bank and his family's real estate. bob is 66 and has been married to his wife for 44 years. they have four children and four grandchildren. >> we want to begin on public safety. an explosive ad suggested that governor hickenlooper is partly

to blame for the murder of a state prison chief. we want to show the entire original ad. [video clip] >> with john hickenlooper as governor, is your family safe? >> that ad prompted lisa clements to send a statement to bob beauprez -- "on several occasions this year, you have attempted to use our family's tragic loss for your political gain, and we respectfully ask you to please stop."

isn't it over the top to ask, are coloradans safe with john hickenlooper as governor? >> thank you for providing the forum and the question. yes, i think public safety is a critical issue. i think public safety ought to be part of any gubernatorial debate. that is exactly the question we were raising. my heart breaks for the family of tom clements and his widow. my intention was never to offend her or to politicize the event. my intention still is to raise the serious question of john hickenlooper's failed record of public safety. that was one crystallizing event in a whole series where he showed failure of leadership on

his watch in public safety. i think that needs to be his first responsibility to protect and defend the safety of the citizens. on my watch, that will absolutely be a priority. i never intended to offend lisa. that is why we changed out the traffic on the ad. there are plenty of other subjects to bring up. >> thank you. governor hickenlooper, your response. >> tom clements was an exemplary public servant and a close friend. i think invoking his death for political purposes is -- i'm still dumbfounded. i'm not sure how we could see that as a positive ad.

obviously i look back at all he did. he came out here specifically to address the issues around people in solitary confinement and getting released directly into the general population. there were 1500 in solitary confinement when he first came. he worked relentlessly and cut that number down to a couple hundred people now. the problem that was being raised has been solved. the whole thing is unfortunate and really dumbfounding. >> governor, let's talk about your record on public safety. i have watched them allow more violent criminals to be released into community corrections.

your administration implement a policy which death row inmates get four hours a day of unsupervised leisure time. it was suggested you have done a good deal to help criminals, but little for victims. how do you respond to that? >> we will continue to work on trying to make the state safer. the issues around truth in sentencing and parole reform, there is a science in terms of how we look at keeping our prisons safe and making sure we rehabilitate prisoners so when they are released, the goal is they could have a job, they have some opportunity to create a life. the truth in sentencing issues -- for violent criminals, we

have them do at least 85% do their full terms. often times, that four hours after someone on death row where things that seem overly lenient is trying to goad people into better behavior within the prison. we do almost all of those changes through a state commission on punishment and juvenile justice. this is a good idea or this is a bad idea. we support most of what comes through that commission. >> your response? >> the reality is in colorado we have one of the worst recidivism rates of going back to prison than any state in the nation. we are in the bottom three. the governor says he has solved the problem of solitary confinement. all he did was return them back. prisoner-on-prisoner violence is up.

93% of sex offenders are paroled directly into our neighborhoods without receiving any therapeutic rehabilitation before they are turned back to our neighborhoods. that is not defending public safety and improving public safety. that is taking your eye off the ball and failing to lead. >> thank you. let's change the subject. you appointed a task force to head off contentious anti-fracking ballot measures. it is a polarizing issue. people who will have to reach a 2/3 majority vote for the legislature. isn't the task force set up to fail? >> i don't think so. we were poised to lose tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of capital investment in the state. some of them come from the oil and gas side and some are very strong advocates for local control.

the goal was to make sure all voices got heard and that they could come together, we could find compromises to find that balance. with horizontal drilling, we have exploration and production coming closer to people where they live. we want to make sure if there is activity close to where someone lives, that they have -- that we are doign everything we can to mitigate that connection, and providing elected officials the opportunity to talk about setbacks and make sure that we respect that private property that someone owns. oftentimes we forget that the person who owns those mineral rights often owned it long before the house was built and government shouldn't come

government shouldn't come and take those mineral rights. i think they will be able to get to the point where electrical draining could be quiet. once the well is built, make sure there are gauges so that water and air is clean and we could really guarantee that there are no harmful effects. >> thank you. congressman beauprez, you have criticized the tendency toward that collaboration, saying it is a euphemism for kicking the can down the road. >> this wasn't the right solution. this was a epitome of kicking the can down the road. the reason the governor did this was a political reason. it is a solution in search of a problem. what he wanted to do is get these draconian extreme measures off the ballot so he and others didn't have to deal with them in their reelection campaigns. he was caving in and capitulating to special interest

contingencies that are his favorite constituencies, i guess. i think what should have been done especially this year was to defeat these measures soundly so we could level the playing field and create some certainty in the marketplace. that is what is driving jobs out of here. this did not end anything. >> thank you. governor, we will give you some time for rebuttal. >> some of the most -- hank brown has spoken of in favor of it. i think there's a real chance to find even though there is significant disagreement, i think they could find a collaborative place in the middle and mitigate that conflict it happens.

>> those like him picked -- or any other from an energy producing county. who he picked was a lady from durango. they want to ban drilling in colorado. we ought to be celebrating the fact that never in human history have we been able to harvest our natural resources more efficiently and cleaner than we can right now. that is something to celebrate, create jobs in colorado, and embrace opportunities and achieve that objective that we have all talked about of energy independence for north america and the united states. >> my turn to get in on the fun, gentlemen. if the governor of another state was contemplating legalizing recreational marijuana and contacted you, what advice would you give? congressman, you go first. >> i would advise them to be very cautious.

governors have contacted me about that question. i think we are in a learning phase in colorado. people supported it, a significant majority. when i raised my hand -- that will be one of them. i think we need to enforce it as the law was passed. i think we need to be very object is an very honest about what we learn about consequences of this new law relative to our children, young people, and to employees who are seeking jobs around the state of colorado because the consequences are real. governors are very much looking at colorado. i think when i'm asked that question, i will tell them to be cautious as i think we are being cautious. >> governor, how would you field those phone calls? >> i get a lot of those calls.

last year i was the chair of the western governors association. this year, the national governors association, and that is about 2/3 of the sitting governors who are republicans. that is a large vote. they ask again and again -- are the tax revenues significant enough to make worth all of the challenges? we need to wait. i opposed the legislation to begin with, but when it passed, i think we had an obligation to do everything we can to create a regulatory system that could work. we are in one of the great experiments of the 21st century. we will do everything we can to find a framework that makes it work. we know that the high thc pot has the possibility of deb finishing -- diminishing memory. >> the median household income is down about $4000 since the

recession started. what can you do to help those who have all but lost hope of finding a job? >> i think now the unemployment has come down significantly. if you go out on to the western slope, it is down in the last few months we have a lot of places where the recovery hasn't been as rapid as a has been. if you go to for collins and denver, if you go down to el paso county, it is struggling. you have got to find ways to provide incentives and those places still have lagging unemployment. it can be done through entrepreneurs or lone rangers. the young millennial's want to

work project to project. we are trying to find one of the right incentives so that they do not does come into millennials have been making it their primary destination. we want to make sure they have other destinations i give them a little bit of an incentive so they would go to colorado springs or grand junction. >> you are right. at best of recovery has been spotty. we have had negative growth. pueblo barely stayed stagnant last year. part of the reason is because so many opportunities that have gone to states around us. that is wrong, and i have nothing against the states, but of a big fan of colorado opportunity appeared when i ask what is wrong, people say it is government. thousands of pages of regulation every year. almost 15,000 pages coming out of his administration of

regulations every year. 2000 new regulations implemented on his watch. i will do the opposite. on day one, i will suspend new regulations. if they aren't public safety related, let's stop and audit government, and invite you to join us in that audit. if it isn't pro-you and your division freedom, we will get rid of it. >> candidates seem to promise during the election season you'd could you tell us one idea from the other party's platform that you support? please be specific. >> i think the democrat party has been top the education opportunity for children. unfortunately, on this governor's watch and the democrat party being in charge of the colorado legislature,

it hasn't materialized. elaine berman is a democrat and member of the state board of education, used to be a member of another board. she said based on the test scores that we got back on governor hickenlooper's watch, she said, we have got to be honest. when 30% of our children cannot read at grade level, we have got a problem that we need to address. you asked about my party's platform. some in my have been strident with the struggling with the issue of illegal immigration. we need to find a solution to the long-standing problem. >> give an example of where you agree and disagree with the democratic platform. >> the congressman came in and

was talking about cutting legislation. we embraced that from the beginning. the state government had to be pro business. the whole state had to be pro business. we had to find a way to cut it in hundred regulations and modify another 1500. again, it's got to be relentlessly pro-business, but at the same time, have high standards. it would be an example where many of my party feel the hydraulic fracturing or extraction is dangerous and should be banned. i think it is the state's obligation to make sure that we get to place where we can guarantee that the air and water will be clean where people live, but that natural gas is a transition fuel that will get us to a cleaner future. in terms of the regulation and overall government approach to business, we have tried to stay

positive and pro. >> thank you. we've asked viewers to send in a question they wanted to ask each of you. >> thanks. we will give each of you 30 seconds to answer these questions. i will ask to move it along. we'll start in jefferson county. it is a county that has decided statewide races in the past. this fall, we saw a school district in turmoil as students walked out of class and teachers called in sick and were upset about a merit pay proposal and a plan to possibly change the college for design curriculum for a.p. u.s. history. that prompted questions from several viewers. what is your opinion of the action of the school board jefferson county relative to the teaching of american history? >> if you're talking about a.p. tests, there will be standard

test given the students all over the country will be completing. i think a small number of people are trying to change the individual parts -- it doesn't make sense. if you change it significantly you are putting your kids at a tremendous disadvantage. >> it is perfectly appropriate for an elected school board to debate the issues such as curriculum. i think it needs to be open and transparent. certainly parents and teachers need to be involved. what offended me was that the kids were hurt, the students were hurt. we lost class instruction time. there are two be a way to resolve these issues in a more grown-up professional manner

than take kids out of classroom, as well as teachers. this was a labor dispute more than a curriculum dispute. i think the tragedy was unfortunately the children. >> we had another school shooting in america, this time in washington state. scott lee wanted to talk about gun control. what is your stance on gun control moving forward? >> berry good question an appropriate question given my opponent in this race. our share of tried to tell him that the gun bills you signed in 2013 would neither improve public safety or be enforced. he told the sheriffs that he didn't do that.

he said he didn't talk to michael bloomberg and his own record said that he did. i do not think the problem is that we need more laws. i think the problem is we need more mental health intervention. that is an issue that has gone on wanting on his watch. i think we need to be proactive about solving problems before they happen. >> governor hickenlooper? >> we did at $30 million to the mental health budget two years ago. it is the largest increase in the history of the state. he might've missed your attention. i do not see new gun regulations coming down the road, but i think that the universal background checks where we were trying to make sure that guns didn't get into the hands of dangerous people made a lot of sense. we want to get universal -- if you look at gun purchases and

the gun safety checks, 38 people who were guilty of homicide, try to buy a gun and we stop them. 420 people who had a judicial restraining order. we stop them. people have said, crooks aren't stupid good they will not get a background check when buying a gun. 236 people when they came to pick up the gun, we arrested them for an outstanding warrant. that legislation was not intended to take guns away from people, just keep them out of the hands of dangerous individuals. >> this is a scene we have seen too many times. back up that people head home and stuck in traffic for hours at a time. what do you feel is the best way to address the i-70 congestion?

>> great question. there have been very few questions about transportation in this entire campaign. let's renew the trans bonds that are about to be paid off. if we did that, i talked to a public finance expert on this. we didn't exactly at the same ratio we have been doing since 1999. that is not a link fixed i-25, the t-rex project, but many other projects around the state. instead of band-aids and patchwork, let's get serious on improving the opportunities and do some serious public finance. our state doesn't even have a cfo. we have some good budget will. -- good budget people.

don't get me wrong. but we do not have a chief financial officer to tell us how to best utilize the resources we have available. >> governor hickenlooper? >> we do have a cfo. >> not in your office. [talking over each other] >> please let me answer. if you did renew those trans bonds, there wouldn't be any big projects. we focus on the short-term on making sure that by spanning the twin tunnels, we could go forward and hard in the shoulders and during rush hour, we could let that become a third lane. friday afternoons and saturday mornings going westbound and the cutting back eastbound, there will be that extra lane.

that is a short-term resolution. we would have to look at managing lanes with a new shoulder that will be used for buses and mass transit people could create a toll. the key to the future though is recognizing that the new vehicles and trucks that are coming are using less fuel. where are the new revenues going to come from? >> i have got to have a rebuttal on that. [laughter] he does understand what the trans bonds are about. what we're talking about is the federal guest tasks that comes to colorado anyway and using that to calculate how much we can finance. that work did marcy will for the last 15 years. public finance experts tell us that we could access $3.5

billion with a "b" money. that is serious money. >> go ahead. >> there is money left of that and you would need a vote from the people to get it. then you'd be taking a diminishing revenue source because of the less amount of gasoline we would be selling to pay for this new amount of construction. you're going out on a very risky endeavor pyramid if he did have a good cfo, i could guarantee they would recommend it. >> yes they would. >> gentlemen, we will move on. >> more than $6 million has been set -- much of it is from the democratic and republican association did i gave several adds a reality check and sound claims that didn't always hold up under scrutiny.

the listen to a clip from and at a give each 45 seconds to respond here it we begin with an ad by governor hickenlooper in which you tell your mediator skills. ♪ [video clip] >> if you want to know what it is like to be in the hot seat with the governor, there's always someone to talk about something. if you listen, you could even the middle. >> you have taken heat for trying to straddle the middle on several issues, especially the death penalty it is your opponent makes it an issue and you lose, you might get -- your -- you might give him clemency. your critics say this shows a lack of leadership. how do you respond? >> and terms of the death penalty -- i was and try to straddle the middle ear and looked at a situation and have than very consistent. i do not think government should be taking life. we all have our relationship with god. in the end, rick has a lot of people disagree with that.

i didn't want to pull the rug out from the entire legal system. i think you asking the question. it is certainly a difficult one. i look at each one of these situations and in the end, when contacted capital punishment, my feeling was that the next -- i don't believe the government should take a lifetime of the next governor might. >> your rants of negative ads. let's take a look at one of them. [video clip] >> john hickenlooper says he opposes negative ads, but that is hickenlooper hypocrisy. >> if true, it could have denounce them. congressman, aren't you being hypocritical? >> i don't think so good as you pointed out in your fact check i

think that that is still running. it is false and misleading and untrue. the basis of that question that you put up, that gimmick that he told in the debate was a question asking him if he wasn't being a bit hypocritical, thing a member of the democratic association of former vice chairman of the democratic governors association and having to raise money for the association to not call that was playing obvious and he knows to be a false attack against me. if it is true and based on a vote that summit has taken a bill that someone signed a statement that they have made, i do not think that is a negative attack at. i think that is a contrast that needs to be drawn out in the course of a political debate. >> in the fact check, they could not coordinate --

>> he lost his first amendment rights to speak out. -- has not lost his first amendment rights to speak out. that is what is really behind this. at least end up and say that is false. calling foul. he could at least do that. but he hasn't. maybe tonight. >> i would be happy to take all of the negative ads stamp you that is what we agreed to. you said i will only run positive ads. your ads -- you broke the promise before. >> the campaign has never -- >> our campaign has never run but positive ads. i denounce all the negative ads. i'm happy to do it. >> you're also happy to let other people do your dirty work for you. oh, please, take them down. the silence is deafening. >> where was your voice back

then? >> we will move along. an association invested heavily in this race. it's ads frame you as someone who lacks leadership. let's take a look at one of the ads. [video clip] >> he is a fun guy to shoot pool with pit when it comes to tough decisions, he won't step up to the table. he dropped the ball on a mass murderer, nathan dunlap, and flip-flopped on gun rights. >> let's take up gun control. he told a group of shares you do you dooup of sheriffs not have all of facts when you sign the bill appeared should you have signed it then? you said to the sheriffs, "as you point out, how important really was it? how much difference will it make? how is this not a flip flop?" just finishing nathan

dunlap, he will die in prison in terms of the controversy. there are so many out there that it will take a long time to have an effect. long-term, you will move toward a safer future. you are always trying to measure how to get things to change were rapidly. i still stand behind that law that that is what made sense. we have a great many factors and have got more facts in you'd we will change things. -- it wouldn't have changed things. i think we should've spent more time and have more of an open discussion over the entire gun law issue. >> how important really was it to the sheriff? >> i was trying to recognize that it would take years for that legislation or to have a significant, material affect. the high-capacity magazines of more than 15 rounds are not necessary to defend your home it in most cases, it is illegal for hunting.

a majority of them have had magazines more than 15 rounds. 30-40% of the lease officers to have been killed all used magazines that had more than 15 rounds. >> thank you, governor. this ad addresses your position on abortion. [video clip] >> this is the race that matters. the one colorado women cannot afford to lose. beauprez threaten to ban abortion come even in cases of rape and incensed pit if elected governor, he would oppose ending planned parenthood. >> you did say in 2000 six that you would sign a bill banning abortion except in cases where the mother's life was at risk. you told me it is impossible what you say you would do until you saw the bill. you said you would also oppose

tax for plant parenthood, now dollars you say you wouldn't oppose all tax dollars, just those for abortion. you said you wouldn't sign a bill banning abortion even if it wouldn't strip planned parenthood given the opportunity? >> if i understand the state budget correctly in a think i do, plant and what isn't getting funding from the state because they haven't applied for it. that is taking care of already under the governor's watch. i will be clear on this. i'm not the candidate to infringe on anyone's rights. i know what the law is. i'm here to bolster that the economy to protect and depend -- defend people's women including women's rights. i do not think taxpayers ought to be pay for you to that is a big differentiation. i will defend your rights.

i happen to have male principles -- my own principles and my own beliefs, but i will defend your freedom to choose as you see fit. >> governor, you run a couple of ads touting your expense as a restaurant owner appeared the suggestion you are pro-business. >> we got rid of unnecessary regulation focused on job creation. we are first in the nation for economic growth. >> is a website that ranked us first also ranked us -- this day has repealed more than 1200 rules and regulations. has added more than 2000 rules since you took office. governor, are you cherry picking numbers here? [laughter] >> no, we're not cherry picking numbers here. we look at the methane regulations. colorado became the first state to regulate methane. our natural gas will have to go out with the infrared gun and make sure there are no leaks and

every well every month. that regulation was formed by the industry working in partnership with environmental community and the government working as a mediator. of course we create a more regulations to make that happen, make sure that everyone played at the same level. but is a mean all regulations are bad. we are at the moment of having the cleanest air in the cleanest water that produces hydrocarbon now that we ever have had. that is true -- because of regulation. the key is to have appropriate regulation. the price of oil is $80 a barrel instead of $100. a lot have jobs that come back. >> thank you pete we want to give you an opportunity to ask your opponent a question here to you need to have 30 seconds. your point has a minute to answer. you each have two questions.

>> governor, on your official website, there's something called the colorado violation decision-making process users guide should i downloaded printed one right here. did you even know that according to your own standards that were adopted in march of 2011, a sex offender could volunteer in child related locations? that is directly from the language of the document -- and not have their parole revoked? >> i don't have the document in front of me and i haven't read it. >> but you approved it. it has been approved on your watch. march 2011. >> what are the details? what is the context? there are issues around sexual offenders. a 17-year-old is dating a young woman who is under-aged. somebody files a case against that. he becomes a sex offender.

i'm not sure if that is fairer not fair. that is what sometimes happens. i don't know if that is what you are referring to are not. maybe there's some way that they are allowed to do that. >> this is why public safety is an important issue. >> i will take a look at that later. what is your first question? >> in colorado, handshake still mean something it when we shook hands, we agreed to run positive ads. we didn't say that we were going to try to denounce the other sides ads could we looked at each other and said that we would run positive ads. i have been in business most of my life i live by handshakes. every time i shook a hand, i was giving them my word. you said we will only run positive ads. what did you mean by we will only run positive ads. >> must've forgotten the context of the question.

the reporter asked you if you thought the democrat governors association ad was in a negative ad and then invited you to speak out against it. >> that is when you stepped across and said, let's run a positive campaign. before he finished answering his question, you failed and he invited you and i invited you to denounce that add as false and you wouldn't do it. you broker on pledge. >> i have made a lot of deals as a banker on handshake i'm still making deals on handshake. you violated the gimmick that you put forward and then you let other people do your dirty work. do not accuse me of doing what you did before you stopped answering the question.

>> now to your second question. >> governor, you like to call it -- on the keystone pipeline or try to keep the federal government out of our cautions are to stand up to the federal government on behalf of colorado natural resources. instead of standing up for rights in the interest of colorado residents, how come you are quick and willing to stand alongside barack obama in washington, d.c.? >> the bottom line is you are mis-seeing the reality of the fact. >> you or three years late getting to the table on that. >> i began co-chairing that committee in 2012. that is not three years late. >> that is not what they think a northwest colorado. >> i beg to differ.

>> would you let me answer? >> please. >> we have looked at all the ways that colorado ranchers and farmers, innovation technology, fencing, improving the habitat. we now look at this as a way that we are building republicans and democrats from all kinds of western states, from both parties, a framework where we could push back. we are doing a better job than the government. that is one of many examples. >> thank you. you have the final question. >> you have criticized the need for what you call failed leadership appeared when we asked a couple of weeks ago to identify a single bill that you have seen pass into law, you talked about the funding for the

va hospital. i will ask again what bill did you author? >> you just mischaracterized the truth. i'm offended by that. i served on the veterans administration committee, i represented colorado veterans to get through the process, the approval of that hospitals now under construction. i've made sure that over the next four years that colorado kept a place at the table for one of only three hospitals that

would be approved and built. i made sure that i think it was my very last post before i left congress that the language for the original appropriations was in that appropriations bill that we got past to fund what is now coming out of the ground to serve our veterans in colorado. i'm very proud of having done that and brought transportation dollars back to colorado. frankly, something that you're benefiting from right now. the continuation of the payment on fast tracks, that was largely responsible to our staff and my work on the transportation committee to his dollars came to colorado. please do not mischaracterize my character. >> made rounds. you will each have 30 seconds to answer and no rebuttal. maybe top stories -- ebola. if we had ebola in colorado, how would you keep it from spreading? >> i'm confident in largely

because i have visited with a doctor who is ahead of the emergency preparedness in the emergency room services at the university of colorado hospital. i have to commend our state department of health and the health care professionals. i think you have done a commendable job. isolation is important. i recommend them and give it dip of the hat on the current administration on that one. >> i certainly agree. the doctor has done a good job preparing everyone. one of the issues as we have seen in ebola is why are you using technology better. in terms of making sure that people who might have been exposed, why aren't we using handheld devices to make sure we communicate to them on a daily basis as we understand the situation better? how are we not making sure that we have all manner of social

media that helps us inform people so there isn't the uncertainty and anxiety that is spreading around the whole issue. >> given the news that more than 200 people received duplicate ballots, how confident can colorado voters be in the integrity of this incumbent election? >> unlike other foreign countries, at least we catch it. we take it seriously. the secretary of state is opposite going to investigate and make sure that it gets taking care of. i feel very confident. no system is perfect. when you look at millions of votes being cast, the amount of voter missteps i think in colorado as any other state, we run clean, for elections. >> we hope we do. i think it is very troubling that we hear the stories of duplicate ballots. we have also heard this weekend

media stories efforts to find ballots, dumpster dive come if you will, to fraudulent them. that is very disconcerting. it is an issue we will keep an eye on and address in future elections whether or not we need to reform our laws. >> what steps would you take specifically to ensure that retirement security of coloradans? >> it is pretty important to zone whose 66 years old and has two older brothers. i think we have to be very vigilant on it. as a former anchor, protecting the public's funds and our publics moneys is crucially important to me. -- as a former banker. we need to make sure that we have the support of law enforcement to do just that. promises made our promises that need to be kept. the retirement is one of those that cannot be violated.

>> in terms of state employees, there has been a lot of concern. we can adjust the cost of living. we need to make sure it remains solid. we have a great many other workers and colorado were not part of it. we need to make sure -- do more to make sure we can guarantee they have something to retire on. charles swab is building a large campus on the south part of town. i talked to him a few weeks ago about if he would be willing to come and keynote a conference and look at how we can maintain retirement for everyone? >> if that is projected, the state budget starts running a surplus. should it be returned to taxpayers? or use it to restore services country the recession? -- to restore services cut during the recession?

>> i think it is amazing to look at the fact that despite many claims that the economy isn't doing as well -- if you told anyone we would be in this position, they would be incredulous. there are a lot of different ways we could return money to the voters. we will follow the law. we will make sure that money gets back to the voters. >> that is a different answer than he gave in a previous debate. >> no. >> i think the money should be the -- return to the voters. did the valley is you have waited a long time for this day to get some funds back. during the suppose it recovery, the average household income has declined about $4000.

it would be nice if government could give you a break instead of the other way around. my watch, that is exactly what will happen. the money would be returned. >> if you each had a do over, what would it be? >> the biggest lesson i learned when i was in congress was that you cannot always trust some of the people you are closest to you i trust the leadership. i don't regret giving pharmaceuticals to senior citizens. i learned the lesson of shame me once, and she menu, fully twice, shame on me p i wouldn't make that same mistake. >> we went to rapidly. many people didn't feel that their voices were being heard.

i take more time to listen and hear both sides. it helps keep momentum going when dealing with consequences of missions. >> that concludes our speed round of the debate. >> we are to closing statements. we had a coin toss. governor hickenlooper won. he elected to go last. congressman beauprez, one minute for your closing statement. >> everybody on channel 4 and those with have tuned in tonight, thank you for this opportunity.

a good friend of mine told me the other day governorship is a terrible thing to waste. the governor's can make a difference. they can make a difference for the states and their people. i want to provide an opportunity for this great state. dreams i never even imagined dreaming up came true here in colorado. it saddens me to see that other state seem to be adding the opportunity now instead of colorado. that is simply wrong. the governor's primary job is less to govern the people and much more to govern the government. i do not want to run your life. i want you to have the freedom to run your own life. i don't want to run your family or small business. i want you to have their freedom and liberty to do that for yourself. that is what will guide me every day. >> thank you. governor, you get the final word. >> thank you for having us. colorado's future will be about innovation and collaboration and

not about seeking pointless fights. four years ago we had a shortfall in the city budget. four years later, we have come back. we have a rainy day fund and 35 consecutive months of job growth. we achieve this with dealing -- while dealing with disasters. we did it by working together. my opponent seems to enjoy picking fights, at least with me, but whaling gas versus local control equating abortion -- we have more to do. we could be the healthiest a america. because of the most innovative public education in the country you to be can be the number one stay for job creation. together is the colorado way. the colorado way is always going to work.

i would like to thank all of you and ask for everyone's vote. thank you. >> that is all the time we have. thank you for joining us for this important setting to help viewers make informed choices in campaign 2014. >> if you would like to check out this debate again or make sure others see it, we will re-air in tonight on channel 12 at 8 p.m. and again on sunday, november 2. >> we will have a special on the candidates and issues. our team is working together for complete coverage. we will be live on channel 12 on election night here and we will have race results and live coverage from the campaign headquarters to get reaction from the winners and the losers. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] quick c-span's campaign 2014 is bringing you more than 100 debates on the control of congress. stay in touch with our coverage.

, republicaned press u.s. congressman bill cassidy is skipping tonight's debate in louisiana in that senate race there. his absent gives mary landrieu and the republican tea party favorite the opportunity to criticize him to a statewide audience without him on stage to defend himself. if no candidate gets more than 50%, the race will head to a december runoff. that is expected. showspoll released today mary landrieu with 36%, cassidy with 35%, and maintenance with of with a margin of error plus or minus four .4%. here is a portion of a debate in iowa for the congressional -- fourth congressional district. diversitythink that

we are seeing an eyewitness something to be embraced, or something to be resisted? and how would you support that in congress? >> if one looks back on my record, we succeeded in establishing english as the official language of iowa. when the moment comes we have the moment to pass that legislation, a common language is the most powerful unifying force known to humanity throughout all of history. it is a common language, it's a language of success and achievement. i just congratulated a young man in the restroom he is an american citizen who arrived here from somalia. i have been a great cheerleader for legal immigration and i congratulate all citizens of choice who rip -- who respect our laws. >> we are used to him using very hateful, divisive language when talking about immigration. to fixot have any plans our broken immigration system

and frankly, every time i hear him, which is very often, use divisive language to talk about immigration, i think about a friend of mine i served within iraq, who is not an american citizen. that's not the right leadership. he claims to be leading in congress. >> let me have you define hateful language. >> i think most people have heard congress things language talking about immigrants. they have received national press. that doesn't move our conversation forward. we have a broken immigration system in this country. i support the comprehensive immigration reform bill that passed senate. it is supported by the farm bureau, the chamber of commerce, and would cut a trillion dollars for my deficit over the coming decade. congressman king doesn't have any plans to fix our immigration system, he just has empty rhetoric. clear it's not

the system that's broken, it's the administration that refuses to enforce existing law that we have. however, i have brought a number of pieces of legislation forward that improve the system that we have. you have to have the will to enforce the law before you have an effective immigration system. i'm for building a wall and a fence along our southern border, just build until they stop going around the end. i'm the author of the most important piece of legislation we could pass and i generated the idea and wrote the bill. is called a new idea act. the federal tax deductibility for wages and benefits paid to illegals. it helps us secure our borders. these are ideas that all republican candidates have endorsed in the last presidential election. we will see if they will hear in the next one. >> even governor perry of texas has said building a wall is not the writer per -- not the right approach and the people that

advocate for don't understand the challenges we face. this is frankly a 20th century solution to a 21st century problem. >> now, the second televised debate in new hampshire between incumbent senator jeanne shaheen and scott brown. the race is proving tighter than some experts thought. can betrol of the senate determined by the winner of this race. h quick tonighti, a high-stakes debateg in a race that could decideh stakes control of the u.s. senate. >> you hamster deserves better than scott brown's fear mongering and grandstanding. is putting new hampshire first? since when? will answer only to you, the people of new hampshire. >> democrat jeanne shaheen is

fighting attempts to label her as a road or stand for the president. >> who's going to represent the people of new hampshire? >> taking sides in the state that holds the leadoff presidential primary. election day is almost here. the senators race is up for grabs. and is new hampshire's choice. >> live from concord, new hampshire, this is debate night. we want to welcome our viewers here in new hampshire and around the country. i'm wolf blitzer. tonight, tough questions for the and heric senator republican challenger the former senator from massachusetts, scott brown. i'm joined by the political director of in h one, our partner in this debate.

all of our viewers can join this debate in real time. m/cnn to tell us whether you agree or disagree to the candidate's response. both candidates will have one minute to respond to questions, 30 seconds for rebuttal. we will allow conversation between the candidates and i will press them to actually answer the questions that are asked. senator shaheen, senator brown, welcome to this debate. thanks to both of you for joining us. a possible ebola scare right now in new york city, dr. just back from west africa rushed to the hospital. he did not self quarantine. we know he went to a bowling alley in brooklyn last night. here is a question. should the federal government mandate quarantined for high risk individuals like this dr.? >> before i answer that

question, i want to thank our sponsors and thank senator shaheen are participating. with regard to ebola, it's real. absolutely that doctors should have been quarantined. he should have known better. that being said, we have a situation right now where the policy with cdc and the president hiring a bizarre who had no experience in this area is an area where we disagree. we need to have a clear and precise policy. we need to be reassured right now because there is irrational fear, as i speak to the citizens of new hampshire, there is a rational fear that this and other types of diseases will come into the country. >> is there anything the president is not doing that you would like him to do to better for tech americans from ebola? >> i understand why people are concerned and afraid because this is a new disease and we

haven't seen it before. we need to do everything possible to make sure our people are safe. it reminds me of post-september 11 when we were dealing with the threat of anthrax and bioterrorism. i brought together emergency response folks to make recommendations for how we put plans in place. that's what we need to do now. are notent and i infectious disease experts, so we need to rely on the experts and make sure we take every keepre that's going to people safe. screenings at the airport are an important step. the effort to self quarantine is very important and we need to follow-up with folks and make sure that is working. we've got to take every measure possible to ensure that our people are safe. we should do that working together, we should not be fear mongering about this issue. >> do you agree with senator

brown that the federal government should mandate quarantined for high risk individuals just back from west africa? >> we have screenings in place and we need to check and see how those are going to work. one of the challenges is that people are not getting a lot of accurate information. we need to make sure that people understand that this disease is, that they know what to look for. i met with a look health officials to talk to them about the plans that are in place here in new hampshire. we are responding positively. we need to make sure at the federal level that not only are we doing no screenings but that we are also providing the support that local communities and states need because they are the first responders in this effort. >> let me respond, and i will ask a specific question. you recently said that had mitt romney been elected president,

we would not be worrying about ebola right now. what are you saying here? are you saying it's president obama's fault that we are worrying about ebola right now? >> no, of course not. you don't have accurate information him and the fact that the president has been giving bits and pieces, different types of information from the cbc. we need to do a travel plan. it makes sense to do a travel ban to make sure anybody who has been in an infected country would come back and i weaselly get screened as were talking about right now. when i was referring to governor romney, we were talking about a whole host of rings. he has been right on the economy. had he been president i feel he would have had a clear and concise plan. he would have reassured the american people that in fact this is the problem, this is how barack to deal with it, and this is what you can do to help. we don't need to be experts to deal with this issue. it's common sense.

to have the president go and appoint a czar partly for political purposes makes no sense. that is the problem with this administration. are confusing policies problematic. >> again, neither my opponent nor i are infectious disease experts. what we've heard from the experts, there are concerns that a travel ban would make this worse. i'm in the camp of let's do what's going to work, based on what we're hearing from medical experts and emergency response experts. that's what i support. what i said is that a travel ban , if the experts tell us that's what we need to do and that is workable, i think that's what we should support. i'm not willing to tell the experts that that's what we have to do. fix i call for travel ban. bipartisan members have called

for a travel ban. is thing that is bothersome that senator shaheen waits to get the ok from the president to do many different types of things. i'm encouraged that she said she supports the travel ban and joins with one of our local congresswomen on that important issue. you don't need to be an expert to use commonsense sense policies and right now the president and his team are issuing very confusing policies on this very important issue. >> the cdc and that dallas hospital did make the stakes. the important thing is that we learn from her mistakes and put measures in place to address that. what we don't need is people fear mongering about this issue. we don't need people who don't have medical expertise trying to get people concerned about what we have to do to respond.

>> who is fear mongering? >> i think that is what my opponent has been doing, talking about people coming across the border who have ebola who are going to infect people in this country. >> we had some good news on ebola this week. with her that the american who had been ill, being treated for this, one nurse is out of the hospital, the other one is doing much better. the cameraman is out of the hospital. we have been successful in treating the american to have been infected and we need to make sure we continue to follow the same kind of procedures to address the challenge. >> she says you are fear mongering. >> i'm glad you brought that up. she cause of fear mongering. i call it rational fear, as well citizens of this country call it rational fear. don't take my word for it. general kelly who's in charge of the border in mexico, has

indicated that the clearest pathway to bring anything, whether it's criminals, terrorists or disease, is through that southern border. so it's not me talking. it's also general kelly and many other people who care and understand this issue. that's why we need to close the border. it's so critical. i voted to close the border. senator shaheen has voted not to close the border, and that's a huge difference between us. >> senator brown, let's just be precise. are you saying ebola is crossing the border? >> i've never said ebola's crossing the border, but general kelly has indicated and stated that the clearest path to get any type of disease, especially if ebola hits latin american, people are going to be coming through that southern border like it's - like it's a wide-open situation, as it is, and even worse. and he recommends that we close it in the event that that happens. >> i just wanted to be precise. i want to move on to a question from paul steinhauser. as far as a travel can is concerned, you're still weighing that. you want to get more expertise advice. >> no, that's not what i've said. i've said if the experts tell us that this is a workable plan, that's what i would support. and the fact is if you - if you support securing the border with mexico, then you should support comprehensive immigration reform.

that's what i've supported. my opponent doesn't support that, even though there are very strong measures in that legislation. it's been passed by the senate with bipartisan support from both senator ayotte, senator mccain. that would strengthen our border, a 700 mile fence, double the number of border agents, more money for surveillance and interdiction. that's what we should be doing and the house should take up that bill. >> and i just want to be precise on this one point. when you said, "i guarantee you we would not be worrying about ebola right now had been mitt romney been president of the united states," you stand by that. >> with all respect, what i said is we were talking about many different issues. we were talking about obamacare. we were talking about him being right on russia. and i have said and i will say it again, had he been in charge we would have a clear and concise policy as to what we're going to do, where we're going, and how we can help. now with regard to immigration - >> let me interrupt, senator. but you also said, "we would not be worrying about ebola right now romney had been president."

>> no. that's taken out of context. >> it's not taken out of context. this was in a fox news interview last friday. >> once again, it was taken out of context. if you take the whole answer when we talked about obviously him being right on obamacare, him being right on russia, and that he - we would not be in this situation with regard to the economy. >> let me read to you exactly what you said. you said rand was - "mitt was great. can you imagine if mitt was the president right now? he was right on russia. he was right on obamacare. he was right on the economy. and i guarantee you we would not be worrying about ebola right now and worrying about our foreign policy screw-ups." >> thank you for repeating it for the fourth time. what we were talking about specifically is that he would have a clear and concise policy on that issue. and since senator shaheen talked about immigration, i think it's very important to talk about immigration. i voted to send troops to the border. i voted to close the border. she's voted in the complete opposite. she's referring to a bill that would have been - given the president the ability to

actually legalize about 11 million people and give them the ability to work and take away jobs from people in this country. i'm going to be wa - working for the people of new hampshire so they can get jobs. it's a real problem. the way to stop it, because he's preparing right now, it appears, to, in fact, legalize additional people who are not entitled to those benefits. we need to deal with the funding issues regarding that. >> all right, we're going to get to immigration in a moment. do you want to quickly respond to that before i move on? >> well, just that the bill that i'm talking about is one that passed the senate with strong bipartisan support from republicans and democrats. it's not a bill that the - the president supported. we need the house to take this up, because if we're really going to deal with our broken immigration system we need to address not just border security, we need to address our visa system, we need to address those people who are here illegally. and despite the suggestion from my opponent, that's not amnesty. i don't think kelly ayotte and john mccain would have voted for amnesty -- >> all right. a -- >> and neither did i.

>> paul steinhauser, you have a question? >> thank you, wolf. getting back to ebola, and senator shaheen, this is for you. the president plans to send 4,000 u.s. military personnel to west africa. and that includes a general in our own new hampshire national guard, to help spread a - to help prevent the spread of the disease. the question is, are you concerned about sending u.s. troops to the ebola hot zone? >> well, i'm always concerned about our national guard troops when they're deployed anywhere. but the challenge that we have is that we need to help contain ebola. the united states has offered to lead that effort by sending equipment, by sending troops. most of those troops, with very few exceptions, are not going to be on the front lines working with ebola patients. they're going to be helping to train medical personnel in the three affected countries in west africa. they're going to be helping to build health centers so - so the - and labs so that they can - they can make sure that they can

test people for ebola. and what we know is that if we're really going to contain this disease, we need to make sure that we fight it where it exists. that's happened in the past when ebola has occurred in africa. we've been able to support efforts to contain the disease. we need to do that now, because as long as ebola exists in africa, there is the threat that it could go anywhere else in the world. >> senator brown, let's turn to the other big story of the day yesterday. as you know, and all of our viewers know, there was a terrorist attack in canada, right across the border from new hampshire, not very far away from where we are right now. here's the question. what additional security measures, if any, should be taken along new hampshire's northern border with canada? >> well, first of all, my heart and - goes out to those who have lost their life. obviously, a very serious situation with our - one of our greatest allies in the world, canada. that being said, the prime minister said that it's terrorism and i agree with him

based on all the information and the things that we've heard. so the question is, what are we going to do? obviously, we need to take any and all precautions, to make sure that we use vigilance and diligence when we're obviously looking to have enhanced border security. and that's another reason why we need to get a strong immigration policy. that's why we need to make sure that we not only deal with our northern border, but our southern borders. and just to step back for a minute, you asked a previous question about our troops. i recently retired from the military after 35 years, serving the last three at the pentagon. i take our troops and their missions very seriously. that question that i have had from the beginning is - is what's the mission? where are the troops going? the senator said herself that were not ebola experts. well, neither are our troops and we're putting them, potentially, in harm's way with no mission, no clear mission and no safeguards, that i'm aware of, or that the president has told us to make sure that our troops are safe. so i'd like to know more about that mission. >> all right, well, let me just see - ask - repeat the specific

question. what additional security measures, if any, need to be taken at north - at new hampshire's northern border with canada? senator brown? >> oh, i'm sorry. well, thank you. once again, i said that we need to make sure that we work our - with our canadian partners and we need to make sure that we have enhanced border security, working, obviously, with the immigration officials. if there's a need for troops, that's certainly up to the governor through, obviously, working with our - our - our federal officials. and, you know, that's obviously very important. it's common sense issues, making sure that we deal with homeland security and making sure that they have a clear line of communication. as you know, there's been problems in the past of communicating with federal and state and local officials. and i think a lot of that's been addressed. but we have to make sure that we work with our canadian allies and work with the federal law enforcement officials and state and local officials to make sure there's a clean - clear and concise plan and clear and concise communication. >> all right, senator shaheen, you serve on capitol hill in washington. you're a member of the senate foreign relations committee. you saw what happened on parliament hill in ottawa yesterday. what should the u.s. be doing to make sure something

like that never happens on capitol hill in washington? >> well, again, i share the - the concern about our canadian neighbors and i offer them our condolences. this shows why it's very important to support not just our homeland security efforts, but also our law enforcement, our first responders. that's what i've done my entire career. i've supported for the - supported the resources in washington to make sure that they have what they need as they protect us on capitol hill. i actually chaired the subcommittee of appropriations that has oversight over capitol employees. and this is where there's a difference between me and my opponent, because what scott brown did when he was in the massachusetts legislature was to consistently vote to cut resources for law enforcement and first responders. and i think we've got to make sure they have the resources they need. i - i would never cut resources for our first responders to provide tax breaks for

millionaires. and that's what my opponent did when he was in washington. i'm proud to have been endorsed by the new hampshire police association and the firefighters here. >> all right, senator brown? >> thank you. as a former member of the homeland security committee, one of the ranking members and a ranking member on armed services and a 35-year member of the army national guard serving the last three at the pentagon, my first priority is the safety and security of this country. that's why i have been - and others have spoken about - securing our borders, first and foremost. that's why we made - need to make sure that we streamline and consolidate every fir - federal program to make sure we can maximize the federal dollars that you're getting. the federal government right now is not a good steward of our money. the obama administration right now has provided some good resources. but there are still holes where we need to work harder. i look forward to having that opportunity again. >> senator brown, let me follow-up on this. the whole threat of isis and the war that the u.s.

now is engaged in against this terrorist group. if u.s. military commanders - you spent a lot of time in the military - were to recommend that some u.s. ground combat forces have to go into iraq and syria, would you support that? >> i think it's a - isis is a real issue. it's an irrational fear, not only with our citizens, but everybody throughout our country and world. and you have to look back, what is isis? it's al qaeda of iraq. and it's a - it's getting bigger and badder, the size of new england. right now, general dempsey has said previously, there may be a time where we need to send ground troops. president obama and senator shaheen have immediately taken that off the table. my question in the last debate to senator shaheen was what if ground - what - what if airstrikes don't work? then what? it was not an answer. i'm not sure if there will be an answer tonight. but to take the greatest fighting force off the table right away is not how you - you - you deal with a battle. i would rely on those generals on the ground and i would rely on general dempsey to make sure that we know the full picture.

and there should be a mechanism that the president should use congress to come up with those answers so we can be fully informed and talk to our constituents. right now, it's been a - according to secretary - former secretary panetta, there's been half-steps and missteps. and as a result, our allies don't trust us, our foes don't fear or respect us. it's an incoherent policy. and senator shaheen, as a member of the foreign policy committee, has endorsed those failed policies 100 percent. >> go ahead and answer the question. >> well, general dempsey just last week said that we don't need to send troops in. i don't support sending tens of thousands of troops back into the middle east as an occupying force. the threat of isis is real, but, again, we should not be fear-mongering about the threat of isis. the fact is, my opponent ran weeks of ads that said radical islamic terrorists threaten to cause the collapse of america. well, that's just not true. we have the strongest military

in the world. and we are not going to let isis or any other terrorist group cause the collapse of this country. >> so was it a mistake for the president of the united states to take ground troops off the table? >> well, again, i think we're building an international coalition. you know, my opponent says that our allies don't trust us. but, in fact, we've got a coalition that has over 60 partners. we are engaged in airstrikes with not just our european partners, but arab countries. we've already taken out hundreds of isis fighters. we're also going after the financing of isis. we're going after their recruitment efforts. and, again, i don't think we should be putting tens of thousands of american troops back in as an occupying force. and we should also not be talking about isis in a way that spreads fear and panic among our population. that's just political grannd