point first year to the where they ended up having to settle that case for half a billion dollars. action untilnto after prosecutors filed charges. so that doesn't speak to good management. fact, what he would do, what somethingsaic is not we want him to do to the state of new hampshire. he's already talking about $90 million hole in our budget and taking us right back to the bill o'brien years, a person he praises >> it was all about leadership and facing problems, frankly, problems that needed solving and i solved them. now, in contrast, the governor is facing problems when it comes to unfunded pension liability and others that she's not willing to face into, not take aggressive action and frankly as a result, in my opinion, she's not earned a second term. >> let me keep the conversation

going and play another ad because it's not only the governor's campaign that has tough ads out there and something from the havenstein ad. >> maggie has exploded the state budget and now her administration is asking for $2 billion more. the administration has supported tax and fee increases. now this reckless spending will lead her to one choice, support an income tax again. hassan may have no choice but you do. she hasn't earned a second term. vote against income tax. vote against maggie hassan. by havenstein for governor. >> you might want to respond. >> i oppose an incomer sales tax and would veto one if it came to my desk and i've been very clear about that. we are in the process of developing our budget for the next biennium as every governor

does in the fall leading to the next two-year budget cycle and that ad is incredibly misleading. the law requires agency heads to submit certain data about how much certain things would cost if we were to do them all. i've already told them it's a nonstarter, those numbers, that they need to come up with much more realistic proposals because we do know we need to balance a budget. unlike mr. havenstein who we need fsic, we know to balance our budget and do it without an incomer sales tax and will continue to that as i've shown we can. the budget mr. havenstein has attacked is a budget that passed unanimously in a republican led senate and almost in a democratically led house. we did it together and compromised and is budget that's invested in priorities that set the foundation for 21st century economic growth.

>> the fact of the matter is our budget, albeit eventually signed by this governor was attacked by this governor. it was attacked and there was not cooperation when it came to across the aisle communication. nd maybe that's why the senate finance chair, senator jeanie foster, characterized governor hassan's leadership as taxing partisanship. taxing partisanship. that's poisoning conquered. that's not me talking but someone the governor is supposed to be working with talking. i've got to tell you, if that's the style of leadership expected to create solutions for this state, frankly, the governor has not earned a second term. >> i think if mr. havenstein understood better he might under the notion of compromise. i criticize certain aspects of the republican budget as it came out of the senate as they criticized mine, but the thing

about working together and bipartisanship is not that you agree on everything, it's the fact that you are able to debate, air your disagreements and move forward and still solve the problem. that's what we did with the budget. what's really toxic is to let the budget that walt halfenstein's $90 million hole would leave us and the level of partnership, bill o'brien, someone he praised has exercised. >> a quick response and we'll move on. >> it's not a question of working together, it's a question the people she's supposed to be working together criticized her leadership. toxic bipartisanship. taxing partisan. if i said toxic partisanship as many times as the governor says bipartisanship, maybe people will figure it out. she's not the leader of the future of new hampshire. >> thank you both. let's shift gears and move to a different topic and for that go back to kevin. >> thank you, paul. this is a question for both of you.

let's start with governor has an. as you know, heroin addiction is a growing and substantial problem in new hampshire. we're among the top five states in the country in terms of heroin deaths and one of the lowest five states in terms of access to treatment per capita. would you spend more money and resources to expand substance abuse treatment in this state? >> governor? >> thank you for the question, kevin. heroin prescription drug use is a serious public safety and health issue and one of the reasons our bipartisanship medicaid expansion agreement was so important. this is an agreement that's funded by the federal government, a $2.5 billion federal dollars come into our state over the next seven years and it includes substance abuse and mental health treatment, critical to being able to get treatment to those in need. in addition to the medicaid expansion plan, an expansion

plan my opponent would repeal, we passed -- or actually just launched our prescription drug monitoring program which allows us to control prescriptions, allows health care providers to determine whether a patient presenting to them is seeking drugs or doctor shopping. we also have worked with the other five of the -- four of the other new england governors to make sure we're working across state lines to address this particularly challenging problem and we also made sure that more of our first responders have the use of narc-an to pull someone out of an overdose and saving lives. in the long termites about access to treatment which expansion will allow us to do. >> mr. havenstein? >> it is about access to treatment. the problem with the medicaid expansion bill the government signed is it terminates in less than 2 1/2 years. t truncates.

those people we made our commitments to are in jeopardy. i never proposed or suggested e repeal our medicaid law. what i propose is fixing it in a responsible way so we can fulfill our commitment to those we're making for our future. the governor won't take that up. she'll wait until it kicks that can right down the road until january of 2017, putting those people in jeopardy. with regard to heroin and substance abuse, it is encouraging finally that the bill that jeb bradley originally sponsored and promoted and that john lynch signed with regard to making sure we understand where people are getting prescription drugs, which is usually the cause of long-term drug abuse is being properly dealt with. >> i don't think we want to go back to the conversation on

medicaid again but a short response. >> the reason the medicaid expansion bill has a sunset on it is because the republicans in the state senate insisted on it and mr. havenstein signed a pledge to the out of state koch brothers to repeal medicaid expansion and he should live up to the terms he signed. >> mr. havenstein, a short response? >> again, i've never suggested that we repeal medicaid expansion law. the only two pledges -- the most important pledges to me are the pledge of allegiance and the pledge never to spend money, right, that the state doesn't have. and frankly that's a pledge i call 2.0 that the governor can't sign because she's spending money that we don't have. >> thank you both very much and i pledge to move us on to a different topic now and for that let's go to kiki. >> thanks a lot, paul. this is a question for both the candidates tonight, two parts to this question. governor hassan, 2/3 of the money raised by increasing the gas tax has gone to the expansion of i-93. where will the money come from

to repair the many red-listed bridges and substandard state roadway? and mr. havenstein, you oppose a tax so how would you pay for i- 3 and the other infrastructure needs? >> i opposed gas tax when passed and there's a reason why, it's the wrong time for another tax on the people of new hampshire. and it's not just the gas tax. remember, it's a diesel tax. every bit of commerce that comes through our state is riding on that tax. and for example, a forester up in the north country, that's an $800 a year tax on every single one of their trucks. so it hits every single pocketbook in our state, and at a time we're prige to grow the economy from 0.9%, dead last in new england, behind vermont and rhode island for heaven's sakes, the last thing we need

is another tax. now, i propose that we'll need some structural changes but the money that comes from our taxes should be spent on our roads and bridges and not diverted to other needs. >> governor? >> well, i'm proud of the fact that we came together, members of both political parties and the business community like a business and industry association, the national chamber of commerce, many other chambers of congress to come together to find a way to fund a modern and solid transportation infrastructure for our commuters and businesses and tourists. we know to have an innovation economy we need a solid infrastructure. and we've used the funds that we are raising on fixing roads and bridges. in fact, the executive council just approved contracts this summer so roads and bridges are being fixed as we speak. we're going to continue to need to work with our federal partners to make sure we get the kind of investment in transportation infrastructure we need moving forward but it's

really important for people to understand that my opponent would repeal this transportation funding plan, a bipartisanship compromise that came together members of both parties and the business community and that would be a mistake and take us backwards economically? >> a very short response and i want to move on. >> i haven't proposed repealing it. what i've proposed is supporting senator jeb bradley's proposal to make structural changes so the money we are raising for roads and bridges is spent for roads and bridges. >> thank you both. >> i do have to say that if the plan that mr. havenstein is talking about in terms of changing the structure, that proposal could take as many as 80% of our state troopers off the road. the funding is supposed to go to roads and bridges and safety thereon. >> mr. haven fine skrks 10 seconds if you want. >> i've --o >> mr. havenstein, 10 seconds if you want. >> 80%?

that's outlandish. i've never proposed that and been fully supportive of our state troopsers. you know something, the law enforcement officers in this ate wear body armor from the b. empt a. systems and i'm proud of the support i've given to our law enforcement across the country but in new hampshire. over 1,900 lives have been saved by the products and systems that b.a. systems hats provided to our law enforcement and i'm very proud of that. >> and the law enforcement members of our state have endorsed me because they know i've stood up for them and actually funded the resources they need. >> thank you both very much. let's move on to a different opic and for that go to laura. >> new hampshire is said to have demographic challenges and the nation's oldest state, by 2021, one in five granite staters will be over age 65 and is said to slow down our economy and requiring more

social service spending at the same time. here's the question, what should the next governor do to tackle these trends? >> govern, let's begin with you this time. >> one of the critical challenges we have to move forward to develop the strengthening 21st century economy is to make sure we have a 21st century work force. this is something i hear about from businesses around the state, and so it's really important that we keep young people here. that's why we've focused so much on affordability and higher education and why we need to do things like carefully examine our rail coming up into the state that attracts young people, attracts a work force as well. as we strengthen that work force and bring more young people in here, it's also very important that we address the particular challenges that come when your population ages and one of the things we've been able to do over the last two years is begin to put together plans for how we're going to address growing older population. but what's really important is we're going to expand middle

class opportunity, help innovative businesses, add jobs and keep our economy moving and keep the high quality of life that's been praised around the country. we need to get young people here and means really focusing on higher ed affordability, something my opponent's plan wouldn't let us do. >> the key to keeping our young people here is to create job opportunities for them. and frankly, the governor does not know how to do that. i have proposed a plan to create 25,000 high-tech, high first 2 1/2 the years of my administration. it including restructuring and we won't be competitive unless we do it. it includes changes in regulations to make us a much more business friendly state and includes an education system that's aligned to the future business needs and employment needs of our state, an energy policy that drives energy rates down so once again we can be competitive, and

frankly, an infrastructure system we can afford to support that as well as a health care cost that are competitive when it comes to the other states that we compete with. we're not going to create opportunities for young people without fundamental structural changes, and frankly, those changes are things the governor is not interested or able to do. >> thank you both very much. we'll have plenty more in our debate in a minute. please stick with us. we'll continue in one moment.

>> welcome back to the nh-1 debate and the race for the governor of new hampshire. i want to go to former chief justice mr. broaddrick from the school of law. here's his question. >> as both of you know, in the 1980's, new hampshire had the best mental health treatment network i think in the united states. in the last two decades, that's deteriorated. what i'd like to know is what specifically you'd do to repair it, what you think it would cost, and where the funds would come from. thank you. >> a good question for both of you but let's tart with mr. havenstein. >> that's a very important oint and i appreciate john broderick participating in asking the question. we do have to repair our mental health system. frankly, we see more and more recidivism in our jails as a result of not dealing

effectively with the mental health situation. we see increased crime as a result of not dealing with it. we see increased drug abuse because we haven't been dealing with it. so we're going to have to set priorities within our budget to make sure that we are continuing to make that a priority, and that would be one of the priorities for my administration. >> thank you. governor? >> addressing mental health challenge is one of our most important responsibilities, it's important to public health and public safety. i've heard on the campaign trail before i became governor and since i became governor how important it is to our businesses and families that we address it and that's why we passed our medicaid expansion plan, one of the reasons, because it has coverage for mental health treatment, critical to being able to have enough resources for community based health care. and our bipartisanship budget passed with members of both parties and both chambers unanimously and reinvested in community based mental health and because we demonstrated our

commitment to doing that, we were able to enter a landmark settlement with litigants around a lawsuit around community -- the lack of community based mental health care and so we settled that and we are implementing the plan that comes from that settlement, standing up community based care which will alleviate the accuse situation we have in some of our hospital emergency rooms with people in crisis waiting for care. my opponent's plan would pull us right back, that $90 million cut would jeopardize that funding. >> a short response, sir? >> i don't know what the definition of "short" is since 30 seconds seems to mean two minutes for the governor, so i'll try and be brief about this. a medicaid expansion bill that's going to sunset in a little over two years that's not a solution long term for the people that deserve it has to be fixed. it has to be fixed. and i intend to make that my highest priority when i get into office. >> and again, if mr. havenstein

actually understood how this works, he would know every two years legislatures come to congress and every piece of legislation has a chance of being sunsetted or renewed and we'll work to renew it and move it forward. >> mr. havenstein? >> to suggest i don't understand that is also disenagainous. i've managed a budget three times the size of the state of new hampshire and managed it year in and year out so i know the choices that have to be made and i know the programs that have to be extended, but this bill, which has a sunset provision in it, has no provision for funding future growth in that program. >> thank you both very much. let's move to a different topic now and for that let's go to laura. >> thanks, paul. while many granite staters are enjoying lower prices for gas and oil suddenly, many will face record high prices for electricity and natural gas this winter. meanwhile, alternative sources of energy from the northern

path hydropower project to wind farms have had a hard time getting off the ground. what's the plan for broadening the energy portfolio? please name two specific action steps you'd take. >> governor, let's begin with you. >> high energy costs have been a long-standing challenge in new england and new hampshire. and since entering office, i've really brought focus to that challenge, so we've released the first energy strategy in over a decade in new hampshire, an energy strategy that focuses on expanding national gas supply and increasing conservation and making sure we find ways, private-partner public partnerships to finance clean energy and making sure we move to a more reliable and flexible grid. in particular, we entered a agreement with the other new england governors to bring focus on to the particular challenge of bringing more natural gas capacity to this

region because our gas spikes are related to that and am very glad we see the private sector coming in with two specific proposals to do that. thank you. >> mr. havenstein? >> the 10-year strategy the governor is referring to makes mention of the cleanest and cheapest renewable energy and that's hydroelectricity. we need to find a way, a new hampshire way, a balanced way to bring hydroelectricity into the state. yes, it goes to the grid but we need to find a way to make that work for new hampshire. today we have a northern pass alternative, frankly, that doesn't work for new hampshire. my goal is not just answer yes or no on northern pass but how to make it work for new hampshire and that's a role of leadership that's been sadly missing in the corner office. frankly, when you look out over the long term, the reason we're having problems today is

because governors in the past didn't face into these problems, just like the current governor is not facing into these problems. and for that reason she hasn't earned a second term. >> my opponent just adopted my position on northern pass so it's good to see he agrees with me. we know we have to move forward and find a win-win solution in that and other exciting challenges because it's important we have the diversity of sources. >> thank you both. let's go to kevin now for another question. >> my question is for mr. havenstein. you vowed to create 25,000 private sector jobs and to cut taxes. as you know, most startup, even if successful, strugtol make any money at all. wouldn't it make more sense for you to cut the state's tax on payroll and sales known as the business enterprise tax than as you propose to cut the corporate profits tax, the most

large businesses benefit from? >> that's a good question, kevin. when i look broadly across the economic development strategy for our state, it made more sense to me to make sure that our tax structure in the form of business profits tax was competitive with the other states in the region and that's what my plan does. it drops over two cycles from an 8.5, the highest in the region, frankly, the third highest in the country, to make us more competitive to 7.4%. at the same time, we need to make sure that our regulations and rules that are imposed, not just on large businesses but primarily on our small businesses are changed to make them much more likely to start here and grow here. it's important to understand, under the last decade of democratic leadership in the corner office, we have fallen from 14th in the country when it comes to new business startups, the seed corn for future economic growth in our state and job creation, to

35th. there are some fundamental structural issues with regard to our taxes that have to change. >> governor? >> we have one of the lowest overall tax burdens in the country and are consistently rated one of the best places to do business. most recently were rated the best place to earn a living in the country. our unemployment rate is at its lowest in 2008. we're creating thousands -- the private sector is creating thousands of jobs, but we know some families are still struggling and we have more work to do and that's where the innovation strategy that we have comes into play. >> governor? >> thank you both. >> i have a comment. the fact of the matter is we've lost 1,500 high-paying, high-tech jobs in our state in the last 22 months under governor hassan's leadership. i created 1,500 high-tech, high-paying jobs in the four years i was running b.a.e. systems in nashua. those jobs are still here. they're still here. we know how to do this. we just have to have a leadership who knows how to do

it and can implement it. >> governor, a short response? >> the private sector created thousands of jobs ines -- since i've been in office but we need to invest in the elements of the 21st century economy, elements in our innovation plan and elements we couldn't invest in if my opponent becomes governor and blows a $90 million hole in the budget. >> of course we need to make investments in our future but if we aren't creating the opportunities aligned with that, it doesn't make a difference. 106,000 of our citizens leave the state every day, commuting to work. just imagine if those jobs were right here in new hampshire. that's what i want to create. i want to create the environment where those jobs can be here in new hampshire. >> you know, a lot of people move up here because they enjoy our quality of life and they know what a great state it is. i'm not telling them they have to give up their jobs in massachusetts right away to come live in new hampshire. >> they don't have any place to work in new hampshire. that's the reason so many of our young people are leaving.

just like my son had to leave 15 months ago to find an opportunity commensurate with his skill. >> there are many large companies with job openings in the high-tech engineering and one of the reasons we're focused so much on college affordability and 21st century educational alignment is because those companies are saying they can't find people for those jobs. there are openings here and went to a great opening at comcast last week. we know we have more work to do because there are families still struggling. >> thank you both. that was a spirited discussion. and we have just a few moments left. so i want to change things up and go a little lighter now and ask you both a couple questions and maybe will tell us something about you. let's start first with what is your favorite website for news and let me start with you, governor? >> oh, i guess the nashua telegraph would be the place i often go first. >> mr. havenstein? >> "union leader" every day, first thing that pops up on my

ipad, roundabout 4:00 every morning. >> gotcha. here's another question, a little off topic. but what was the last concert you attended and i'll start with you, mr. havenstein? >> zach brown up on the lake, about 14 months ago, it was great big country and western fan, zach brown is a favorite of judy and mine. >> governor? >> it's been a long time since i attended a concert but i was able to attend one for bonnie raitt and james taylor a long time ago and i enjoyed them very much. >> thank you both. we have two minutes left. i want to give each of you a minute for closing comment. mr. havenstein, we'll start with you. >> first of all, thank you very much to nh-1 for this opportunity and our panelists and other sponsors. it's been a great opportunity for me to show the contrast and leadership between 41 years of to this e that i bring race and to the corner office,

responsible leadership as opposed to my opponent, frankly whose leadership has been characterized by the people she's supposed to be working with as toxic partisanship. i've worked in the industry in the marine corps and with over 100,000 colleagues and never, ever has anyone -- even those who disagree with me, ever referred to my leadership style as toxic. >> governor, a very short parting comment? >> well, this election is indeed about a choice. we can continue to move forward, building on the bipartisanship efforts to solve long-standing challenges in the new hampshire way or allow my opponent to take us back to the slash and burn koch brother agenda that devastated our families, our businesses and our economy just two years ago. we have an innovation plan we need to continue to build on, and i ask for your vote. i hope very much that the people of new hampshire will keep committed to doing things the new hampshire way together. >> governor hassan and mr.

havenstein, thank you for joining us. tomorrow night, jeanne shaheen and scott brown will discuss issues as nh-1 teams up with cnn and the debate will be live from the studios of nh-1 in concourt, simulcast on new hampshire public radio from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. thanks for joining us tonight. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp.2014] ♪ >> election day is tomorrow. and tonight we'll review the

candidates' recent debates in some of the key races and take your phone calls and reactions on twitter and facebook. we'll also look at some of the latest headlines. that starts today at 6:00 eastern >> throughout campaign 2014, c-span has brought you more than 100 30 candidate debates from across the country, in races that will determine control of the next congress. this tuesday night, watch live in a -- election night coverage to see who wins, who loses, and which party will control the house and senate. begins at 8 p.m. eastern with results and analysis. you will see candidate victory and concession speeches and some of the most closely watched senate races across the country. we want to hear from you with your calls, facebook comments, and tweets. election night coverage on c-span. >> in the race for the open u.s.

senate seat in georgia, the candidates are democrats and independent amanda swafford. here are some of their weekly campaign ads. nunn and i approve this message. >> today it's the leading manufacturer of power cable in north america. when i hear a neighbor say he is proud to have outsourced to parts of the world, i have to wonder, every time we invest in georgia workers, they can compete with anyone in the world. so i don't know how you can be proud of having sent american jobs overseas. ask david purdue help create and save thousands of jobs right here in america. all michelle nunn seems to do is attack david. we want to know where she is on jobs, education, national security. she never says. that's because she supports president obama's agenda. >> we don't need more bad

policies from washington. we need david purdue. >> i'm david purdue, and i approve this message. i michelle nunn, and i approve this message. david purdue is upending his outsourcingan report pimco technologies been most of his career moving u.s. jobs overseas. >> the attorney asks, can you describe your experience with outsourcing? yes, i spent most of my career doing that. >> david purdue, he's not for you. campaign plan, michelle nunn admits she's too -- she needed to fool georgians to win. she attacked david purdue with ads that independent fact checkers called mostly false and

a stretch. david purdue spent his career creating thousands of jobs. purdue will grow this economy and bring common sense to washington. >> i'm david purdue, and i approve this message. recent polls have listed that race as a tossup. the debate any time in its entirety at c-span.org. recent polling listed the republican. this debate is just under a half hour. >> a knockdown drag out fight between joe garcia and carlos carvalho. the candidates are here for a live debate. >> it's a south florida raise the nation is watching. the numbers are close in the tone is messy. >> we will hear from our powerhouse roundtable.

just cap badly was rick scott hurt in his debate with charlie crist? >> good morning, everyone. so great to have you with us on what could be a defining week in this election. early voting starts tomorrow. absentee ballots are already coming in. >> this morning were going to begin with the south florida rest -- race for a seat in congress that is the focus here and across the nation. 26congressional district covers much of collier county, all the way down to key west. residents are split almost among in thirds democrats, republicans, and independence. >> this morning joe garcia -- he has served on the public service commission in the state of florida and is also a lawyer. rebello, ther republican in the race, is in marketing and public-relations and is a member of the

miami-dade school board. so great to have you both live with us this morning. >> let's begin with the most basic question him a which is why do you think you are the ?est man for the job >> it's about representing the interest of south florida. one gets the opportunity to do and you get a chance to sort of understand the breath and scope of this area. this is one of the most incredibly beautiful areas of the world. it's about our nature, about the people who work here the diversity. it's one of the most diverse districts in the country. and so the opportunity to represent is to give a voice to the 850,000 people that live here that they have a voice when you're in washington you know that south florida has a voice. someone who speaks up, fights the president, supports him when he's right, fights his party when they're wrong, support it is party when they're right. but most importantly acts on the interest of the people of south florida. >> the same question to you.

>> thank you. it's been a rough couple of years for this district. really four or five years. on top of all the economic challenges, a lot of young people graduate from our colleges and universities cannot find work. a lot of people are still unemployed today so many are underemployed. on top of all that we have had just a host of terrible headlines in this district. straw candidates, people cheating to win elections, people going to jail for absentee ballot fraud. so we need to turn the page on this tough history of scandal, corruption, in florida's 26th congressional district. i really think that it's time to allow a new generation of leaders to step up and start solving the problems that this nation is facing. who is going to fix social security and medicare for future generations? who is going to reform the tax system? where are the ideas we've been sorely lacking in ideas in congressional district 26 for a few years now because all we

talk about is scandal, corruption, straw candidates and fraudulent absentee ballots. >> i would like to follow up. >> hold on just a minute. we'll get there. hold your thought for a second. >> you're right there's so much about this race that has been so negative. let's go right to the issues. you've been hit very hard by your opponent on social security and medicare primarily because of a speech you gave at george washington state university where you flat out used the word ponzi scheme for social security. do you really think social security and medicare are ponzi schemes? and if not why use that word? >> of course not. im 100% committed to social security and medicare. i have a 92-year-old grand modser, i have two parents who are beneficiaries of both social security and medicare and i believe in preserving and protecting these programs for current beneficiaries as they exist today and also for those near retirement. however, there's a reality here. we know that if we do nothing about social security and

medicare both programs will be insolvent going into the future 10 or 15 years. so what i was expressing is the concern that a lot of young workers in this country have today that they're paying into programs that may not exist for them. >> but the shorthand you use carlos, ponzi scheme, connotes criminal activity. neither social security nor medicare is any kind of criminal -- they are big entitlement programs that face financial challenges. but that phrase are you disavowing the phrase? >> of course. but what would be criminal is if all of these young generations of americans who are working so hard paying into these programs then cannot reap the benefits. i want social security and medicare to be strong for today's seniors but also for tomorrow's seniors. the problem in politics today is that when you talk about solutions when you're honest and sincere with people and tell them about what we could possibly do to make the country stronger or to fix these programs you get criticized for it. and it's a very disingenuous

attack line. >> the problem here is to scare people. because i know that there are thousands of people, tens of thousands of people who depend -- this isn't an entitlement. it's a right you've earned you bought into. i started paying in when i started working at 14 years of age and i expect it to be there. i know what it did to my father who was paying 1800 a month for his health care until -- and this is the problem. talks about turning the page. but what he's turge the page to is fear tactics and scare tactics. says one thing in south florida and one thing when he's in front of his tea party friends. and that is not acceptible. >> but you in your adds say that carlos wants to end the medicare guarantee. i don't think he ever said that. >> of course not.

>> you refer to it as a ponzi scheme look maybe he's not old enough to remember but you and i remember how many times social security in theory has been at the edge how many times medicare was going to disappear. it's still there and it will always be there. why? because this a country we make a sacrifice and an investment in our people. we want to make sure -- let me finish because it's important. >> how is it going to be there? >> what are your solutions for medicare? >> the numbers show that social security is on the way to insolvency. >> just like all other programs. and what you have to do is o grow the economy. these programs grow. when you better salary these programs grow. when you look for more investments. when you take caps away from contributions when you don't exempt millionaires and allow everyone to contribute into the system it can grow further. just like when they said it was going to die in the 70s just like when they said it's going to die. when you scare people that's the difference. you have to work together. and that's the problem. >> hold on just a minute. >> he says i'm trying to scare people yet his ads are telling our seniors today that i want to end medicare for them. that is the ultimate hypocracy mr. garcia. and you talk about the tea party. let me tell you something that's

another scare tactic. you know i'm not a tea party member. the only tea party candidate that has run for office in this district is role yo row hose that's the candidate your campaign recruited and by the way illegally financed. >> wait a minute. >> let's stick with social security and medicare for a moment. >> that's ridiculous. >> you had means testing to reform the system. what did you mean by means testing? at what means? >> you know what that means? >> i noy whether or not it means. >> but what benchmark? >> maybe guys like warren buffet and bill gates don't need social security or medicare benefits. perhaps we could start there. those funds would be better used giving them to seniors who are in need. these are solutions ideas to make the program solvent. he vaguely says all we have to do is grow the economy. well that hasn't really works out. what we have to do is reform the system to make sure it's strong for our seniors today and so that young working americans can also benefit from these programs. these tactics of trying to pit people like me against our parents and grandparents, that's immoral.

that's wrong. those are scare tactics. >> that's what you were doing calling it a ponzi scheme. soon you'll start defending ponzi scheme. he didn't understand the term. he said 12 year limit on social security. what do we do? so when you turn 77 we put you out to die? the reality is this is an essential part of the american compact. >> you advocated raising the age to 79. >> you change it over a decade and it has a huge impact on the actuarial tables. and more importantly what you've got to realize is this is the greatest single social program in the history of the world. successful. let me give you an example of medicare. when medicare was put into place 50% of seniors didn't have health care. and 30% of them live in abject poverty.

the whole key is to invest in the system so we can grow our country. >> he just made a very important point. he supports raising the age to 69. average life expectancy is 79. so he supported as 10-year limit to medicare and social security benefits. >> no of course not. let's be clear. that's a gradual shift as people come into the system. they have a longer term compact. >> gentlemen, hold your thoughts. we're going to move on here. this is a lot of fun, very lively. stay with us. we'll be back in just a minute. live in our studio this morning are the two candidates in the 26th congressional district out of southwest miami dade all the way to key west. in what 2001-2002 you started a company called capital gains. when you went to work for then senator george lamieux you became a statewide boss coordinator. you put that company in your wife's name. and it remains in your wife's name and leaguely that allows you

not to disclose your clients. you are abiding by the law we understand that. but in the interest of full disclosure, why don't you just tell us who are your clients? >> look, michael, i understand questions on this issue and i understand your concerns. the media always has to try to get as much information as possible. here's what i tell you. i file not one but two financial disclosure forms every year state and federal. congressman has to file one i file two. the state by the way requires a lot more information than the federal one. i have been willing to go beyond what the law requires and answer any specific question that anyone has had over the years about the work i've done. on top of that a lot of work i've done is i've told you before michael has been on the record in front of the camera. so i'm proud of the work i've done. i understand the garcia campaign has wanted to make an issue out of this to try to establish some parity or to try to muddy the waters but the bottom line is i follow the law i'm

committed and i invite his campaign to start following the law as well. >> for the record it wasn't the garcia campaign that first brought this up. it was elaine who writes a blog and she in the media brought this up. and i don't think anyone is disputing the that you follow the law. the question is it's not the media it's the public and the media is a surrogate of the public to find out what their public officials do who they get paid by and who they are incumbered to. and under that sort of scenario why not just tell people? why not? >> like i said, i'm willing to answer any question that anyone has asked. you've seen me answer them on tv. what i'm not going to do -- you talk about the media and blogs a lot of times other campaigns work through them. but what i'm willing to do is to continue answering any question i've had. i've been transparent about the work i've done. i have contacted reporters many times over the years about the work i've done. what i'm not going to do is allow this campaign to become

about my past work. it should be about the issues and it should also be about our campaigns and about how we can do our campaigns. >> transparency is a legitimate issue and i just simply have to ask you, among your clients have been going taj the casino company, mt. sinai medical center you worked for mario and lincoln diaz-balart, for texas governor rick perry fred thompson we know all those clients but petty missouria of the miami heard did i thought an excellent story the other day where she pointed out that you have represented two brothers from equador who lives here roberto and william esias. they have been convicted in equador of fafta in the amount of $600 million. they say they didn't do it. i don't know the truth or not truth of the situation. gu you escorted them around capitol hill. you introduced them to some powerful members of congress. and yet you never registered as

a lobbyist when you did that. i mean, frankly that just looks like lobbying. why didn't you register? >> michael, there are very specific requirements that indicate whether someone needs to register or not. in the case and in the nature of the work that we did, we did not have to register. now let me tell you -- >> did they pay you? >> of course. because we were doing a public campaign. a lot of people know them. they used to be the owners of republican national bank they were victims of the corrupt government of equador and our job was to tell not just public officials but also members of the media who i had contact with about this case about the nature of the government of the equador and what they were doing to journalists and so many others. >> how much did they pay you? >> they compensate us fairly for the work we did. i wasn't the only person at the firm working for them. and by the way, eevep if i had

disclosed this client on a public disclosure form, they don't require you to say how much companies pay. the family paid us fairly for the work we did. >> all right. jose garcia, let's have you weigh in on capital gains. >> i think you're left to -- let's open a phonebook and ask him the clients because he won't tell us. let me tell you why it's important because it tells you who you represent. thus far we only know the people he represents because we've seen him publicly do it or he's been brought out. the brothers were brought out. but the reality is he won't tell us. and michael it's important you know who i represent? 850,000 people in florida. that's it. to represent those interests. it's important. so for example on the marlins deal do you want the marlins? >> no, i don't. >> and then we'll go down the list. right? >> he asked me a question. >> you answered it and i'm going to continue with my answer. >> have you admitted to mr. putney that you solicited that you -- that family?

>> absolutely. i don't have to. and we didn't do the deal. that's exactly right. >> you solicited them in writing. >> they are donors of me and they have been. but the reality is -- >> so they are donors of his and even though he doesn't represent them in congress he called the obama administration to ask the administration to help them. >> absolutely. >> and that's of public record. >> it's of public record. >> what it is is unethical. >> of course not. >> you're only supposed to do constituent service work for your constituents. >> that is completely untrue. what we've done and what we've done for everybody who comes to us whether you live in our district or not is represent. and what they were asking from us is help with their residency which we tried to do with everybody. we do 2,000 people have come through our office dealing with these issues and we do that all the time. but what's important here is who exactly he represents. who are his clients? we don't know. we have to guess. he says he's going to be transparent but we have to guess and we have to go through it one by one to figure it out and that's

just not fair. we sit here -- i've got to disclose who my clients are who i representive to do it and i have to disclose every single one of our donors. >> i think this is a very good place to take another break. stay with us. we believe be right back to continue this discussion. >> welcome back to what has become a no holds bar debate. let's continue. joe garcia, the campaign manager and then chief of staff jeff garcia that you have no relation recently completed a 90 day sentence for absentee ballot fraud on behalf of your campaign in 2012. you have said you knew nothing about it. how could that have been that jeff garcia and other staffers were involved in requesting absentee ballots and you didn't

know? >> well, the way these campaigns run, they're wide, they're large. you're spending millions of dollars and staying to a schedule. part of what happened in this campaign is when you ran the campaign you weren't allowed to bring an absen tee ballot into the office. so i had no idea. but let me be clear. what we've done is been transparent from the beginning. we made a statement of the our statement was that we didn't know about it. it's the facts. the state attorney's office cleared us of any wrong doirning and we move on to do the work of the people of south florida. i could change the story but that isn't the story. i've given the facts. >> when jeff garcia was indicted, you didn't fire him. he remains on your staff. didn't that send a message? >> no. before jeff garcia was indicted when this came out he was fired that night. he resigned and he was fired because we did both at the same time. and that ended that night. >> let's take this a little further to stay on this a little

bit loppinger. royo rojo a name that has come up as a possible she'll candidate in the 2010 elections, a man registered as a democrat who secretly ran as a republican. >> as a tea party member. >> shades of recently have been others who you beat for this seat two years ago is now implicated in running a shell candidate named justin sternad. how is royo not your campaign's justin sternied? >> and i never met him. >> but were you involved in recruiting or financing him? >> absolutely not. he was one of jeff garcia's closest friends and i've never met him. what is it that i could say except i've never met him and we've been clear about this from the get-go. we've -- no one has been interviewed about this issue. it's just a fact. >> makele may i just say something? in 2010 in september the miami herald wrote for the first time about him. before the election.

in 2012 mr. garcia ran a campaign looking at a camera just like this one saying that david rivera was corrupt, that it was unacceptable knowing that in 2010 his campaign had very likely recruited and illegally financed a straw candidate because we read it in the newspaper. and while his 2012 campaign was commiting absentee ballot fraud. so there is certainly at the very least a question of judgment here. >> let me -- >> recruited a straw candidate in 2010 why was he not fired before the 2012 election? because mr. garcia has a win at all cost culture inside of his campaign. let me tell you something i take full responsibility for all the actions of my campaign and the people who wrk for me know that this kind of conduct is totally unacceptable. >> he's got a secret client list that we can't see. if you guess he will tell you but you don't know if that's true or not because you have to guess. we've been transparent. when we found something wrong we fired them and we moved on. it's simply a fact. now, if he wants to make an

aggregation of something that happened four years ago then make the allegation but it has nothing to do with myself. we were transparent and clear here. we have been from the beginning. >> let's move on if we can to u.s. cuba policy. because this is a heavily hispanic district. mainly cuban americans. is current u.s. cuba policy acceptable to you? what needs to change, if anything? >> we need to continue helping the opposition and we need to remember that the cuban government is an enemy of the united states. i think i'm one of the first candidates running for congress in south florida in one of these districts talking about what is in the best interest of the united states. the cuban government is holding alan gross hostage since president obama came to office about six years now. the cuban government was caught recently sending arms illegally to north korea. the cuban government continues beating and imprisoning people who disagree with them. and, by the way, killing people in the streets.

so any changes to u.s.-cuba policy need to be made or considered in the context that this is an enemy of the united states. and by the way, i'm also in favor of reforming the cuban adjustment act because i believe it is in the best interests of the united states too many fellow cubans are coming to our country abusing the privilege granted to them. >> how? >> which -- well the act needs to be preserved for those that are victims of oppression and tyranny. for example, people like the paia family whose fathor was murdered. mr. garcia's open borders policy on open borders on cuba -- >> it's not open borders. >> of course. >> let's be clear here. the reality is we've been on all -- he's got a stranglehold on the obvious. of course this is the obvious. it's a bad regime. what we node is the administration policy of

allowing more travel, more contact is good. now, if reality is the cuban adjustment act has been a boon for this community. what it's done is allowed people a fathway forward and gets them investing in the economy quicker more productive paying taxes. it makes a difference in this community. what he knows and won't tell you if we can't pass comprehensive immigration reform do you think we're going to be able to amend a 1968 law that was designed to particularly let people who are victims of oppression fix it? it's eyesy to come in and then close the door behind you. but the reality is we saw the president on friday make a distinction with the haitian communities his tea party friends aren't going to allow it. >> we are just about out of time. we promised a brief closing statement. since you began here i'm going to ask you to in about 30 seconds give us a close.

>> first, thank you for the opportunity of being here. thank the people of south florida for helping us. the reality is what makes this district and our people what we've been able to do is represent those issues whether it's bring more money for education, whether it's cut insurance rates and flood insurance, whether it's to bring health care to thousands who didn't have it before, what we want to do in south florida is make a difference for the people of south florida. i'm not backed by outside interests or money. we're doing things that make a difference for south florida. if you watch the millions that's been spent on this campaign way before i even had an opponent and now millions more to keep their campaign of distortion up. our's is to represent the people of south florida. >> thank you. i thank the congressman for being here as well. in 2012 congressman garcia ran a campaign saying that our community deserved better that we could not be well served by david rivera who was engulfed by scandal and corruption.

fast forward and his campaign is under f.b.i. investigation for the same crime that apparently mr. rivera's campaign committed. we do deserve honest representation in washington. we do deserve someone that can be effective and that can get things done. the school board i've worked with republicans and democrats and moved the ball forward to improve the quality of education in our community without raising taxes. that is the same type of solutions oriented leadership we need in washington. i don't only talk about bipartisanship. i have a record of doing it. mr. garcia's idea of bipartisanship is going to the house floor and calling republicans the taliban that's not going to get thing done for this community. i ask for your vote. thanks again for having uts. >> it is our pleasure to have you been here and we will be closely watching the race in the next 17 days is it? something like that. >> tomorrow's early voting. >> 16 days. >> all right. up next we take the debate and the fanfare to this week's

power roundtable. stay with us. >> tonight, one day before the midterm elections, we review the candidates and watched debates from some of the key races. as always, we want to get your take on the campaigns. comments onlls and facebook and twitter. that begins in about an hour from now at 6:00 eastern on c-span. tomorrow night is election night on c-span. starting in 8:00, we will show you the winners, losers, and which party will control congress. engage us on the election results on twitter, or facebook. alaskan democratic senator mark begich is running against republican challenger dan sullivan. here is a look at some recent campaign ads. >> i'm megan sullivan.

you've seen a lot of ads attacking my family, so i wanted you to know the facts. alaska has been my family's home for generations. my dad is teaching my sisters and me to handle a rifle, fish, and be strong, independent, honest women. we've learned a lot about sacrifice from his service in afghanistan and were proud of his work to protect alaskan women from domestic violence. dad will be a great senator for alaska. quicktime dan sullivan, and i approve this message. >> and we were young, our father look to bring fear to the. and things seem impossible, i try to do what he would have done. like when i took on obama to open up drilling in the arctic. i also took him on to protect gun rights and exempt alaska schools from no child left behind. i mark begich. i approve this message. i will go anywhere and work with anyone to do what is right for alaska.

>> i served with dan sullivan in the u.s. marine corps. thosellivan was one of leaders who lead by example. he trained hundreds of alaskan marine to be ready for combat in cold weather conditions. in this country, let alone the state was built by people like dan sullivan. tracy didn't take no for an answer. tracy cares about his fellow countrymen. if he says he's going to do something i believe him because i trust him. >> what was mark begich's real record? millionnated a $33 deficit and invested in police, firefighters, and schools. he is taking responsibility for fixing the health care law so it works for alaska. i mark begich and i approve this message because i will go anywhere and work with anyone to do what is right for alaska you

fix recent polling has listed this race as a tossup. you can see the recent debate any time at www.c-span.org. campaign 2014 coverage continues with the kentucky senate debate tween in, mitch mcconnell and democratic challenger alison grimes. recent polling listed the race as narrowly republican. the debate is currently of kentucky educational television and it runs about an hour. >> welcome to kentucky tonight. good evening, i'm bill goodman. tonight we will discuss issues in kentucky's u.s. senate race. our guests are kentucky secretary of state alison lundergan grimes and u.s. senator mitch mcconnell of the republican party. we invite questions tonight from kentucky viewers. send questions on twitter,

form., or use the web or you may call. include your first last name, town or county on all messages. both of you, thanks you for being here tonight. secretary grimes, you have aseled senator mcconnell senator gridlock. and stated in one press release that his message is clear, six more years of rings winship and partisan games in gridlock in washington dc. senator mcconnell, you have said anms. grimes that she is experienced obama liberal with a gun. secretary grimes, what can you say tonight that would convince kentucky voters that you would be the independent voice in washington and would not support

the president's agenda for the next two years? >> kentuckians know my record, and i want to thank you, bill and the viewers all across the commonwealth who are joining in tonight. they know the record i have as secretary of state, in contrast to senator mcconnell is one of acts we putting the people of kentucky first. i have my disagreements with the president. his energy philosophy, wrongly ruling by executive order. the president is not on the ballot this year. it's myself and senator mcconnell. he doesn't want to take responsibility for all that is wrong in washington dc washington isn't working for kentucky and it's due to the gridlock, the partisanship that he championed. it has severe consequences for kentucky from infrastructure to education to agriculture to manufacturing. the lack of ability to be able to make those investments. it is hurting kentucky. i'm in this race to hopefully help give hard-working kentuckians fighting chance of actually earning a good wage and having a good quality of life,

making sure that we grow the middle class, something that hasn't been a priority for senator mcconnell, whether you call him senator gridlock, senator no-show, our center shut down. >> we will talk about those issues tonight. senator mcconnell, what will convince kentucky burgers that you will not side with washington over kentucky issues, and that this race is not about your ascension to blocking the obama agenda, but you have kentucky issues first? >> let me just say my opponent has been most for time trying to deceive everybody about her own views. she has been a delegate to the 2008 and 2012 democratic conventions when some democrats chose not to go. congressman chandler didn't go to the convention in 2012. senator manchin didn't go. senator mccaskill didn't go.

she has made major efforts to try to deceive the people of kentucky about her own views and where she is likely to go if she were to get there. with regard to my own record, there have been three major bipartisan agreements during the obama years between republicans and democrats. the vice president and i have negotiated every one of them. the two-year extension of the bush tax cuts, the fiscal cliff deal on new year's eve of 2012, which made 99% of the bush tax cuts permanent and also got a $5 million per person estate tax exemption which is really significant for family farms and small businesses here in kentucky. 99% of them will not have to be sold in order to get them down to the next generation. so i am prepared to negotiate with the other side when we can find areas of agreement, but i

don't share the president's agenda. it's an agenda that i think has been demonstrably bad for america and for kentucky. >> how would your agenda be different? >> as i've said, i have been prepared to negotiate with the democrats will again find areas of agreement. the three major deals i've just mentioned are the only major deals during these obama years. all of them would either reduce spending or keep taxes low. those were areas that we agreed on. i was perfectly willing to negotiate, and those were good agreements that ended up being passed by very large majority. >> going forward you would work with the president and senator reid? >> the president said we ought to do comprehensive tax reform. we now have the highest corporate tax rate among industrialized countries. its great way to export jobs, exactly the opposite thing we ought to be doing. i group the president on that.

unlike my opponent, who said she is opposed to trade agreements, apparently. president said we ought to be negotiating trade agreements. i and most of my members think there are areas of agreement. i've demonstrated that in the past and will demonstrate it again in the future. >> let me actually address that. >> i want to ask about endorsing are working on the democratic agenda. >> first, let me say that what you just heard senator mcconnell say is a complete departure from what he said to his family out in california. you went there and asked him to help buy his way back to washington dc, he told them that if a gave him another six years on top the 30 he's already had, he would have nothing to do with giving debate level and a vote to actually increasing the minimum wage or extending unemployment insurance benefits are helping our students go to college, all common sense, bipartisan proposals that the majority of kentuckians need and deserve.

you said you've had enough of those gosh darn proposals. you have yet to hear anything that you will actually work on. senator mcconnell's 30 year record is gridlock. it's a distraction, it's extreme partisanship that has cost this nation a 16 day government shutdown. we can't afford to go in that direction. my record speaks for itself. i'm an independent anchor that does what is right for the people of kentucky, not partisan politics. i'm not bought and paid for by the koch brothers or anybody else. >> my opponent, secretary grimes, said she was going to go to a fundraiser that harry reid sponsored for her in washington and tell him how important it was to stand up for coal -- the meeting was recorded by someone who was there and subsequently released. it never mentioned a word about coal to harry reid.

this is the harry reid that she will vote for to make majority leader of the senate if she goes there. that will be her first vote. he's the guy who said coal makes you sick. she will enable him to be the leader and agenda setter in the senate which will guarantee that we have no vote on coal. >> let me address this. senator mcconnell, you and your henchmen and the koch brothers mislead kentuckians with your negative, nasty ads. i did have strong words for senator reid regarding an energy philosophy that i believe he is misguided on as well as president. coal keeps the lights on here in kentucky. my record is consistent. senator mcconnell fought against the coal-fired plants as a county judge. he has a list of hundreds of thousand offers his family has. it's on his watch we've lost

hundreds of thousands of coal jobs. let me say this. when it comes to trade him a my record is again consistent. i am for free and open and fair trade, especially for our workers. it's needed for going to have a strong economy. we cannot maintain the current blind eye senator mcconnell has. >> we will talk about coal later in the program. do you want to respond? >> i haven't said anything in any private meeting i haven't said publicly. i have been entirely consistent both privately and publicly. secretary grimes whole campaign has been designed to deceive people into thinking she is something she isn't. it's pretty obvious, given where

her support comes from, all the anti-coal activists in the country, that she's going to do their bidding. the issue -- outrageous issue that somehow my wife and i have profited from coal activists is the ultimate deception. that's pretty hard to get, for pinocchio is. pinocchios. the only one who i can think of is the president who said you have your policy and you like it, you can keep it. >> this webster a message to both of you from jason in floyd county. he says the winner of this election will be in office until 2020. if you are elected by 2020, what will be your signature accomplishment in office, and why will it matter? >> jason, thank you very much for that question. i'm in this race because i believe we have to have a senator that actually wants to help put hard-working kentuckians back to work. i believe it is a senator's number one priority, to bring jobs back here to kentucky.

and i hope that we will have worked full force across the aisle with not just democrats but republicans and independents. senator, that's how you get things done, not just in frankfurt, but in washington. that's what has been missing. we haven't had someone who's reached out across the aisle to enact a jobs plan. i'm the only candidate in this race with a jobs plan. that's how we put kentucky back to work thomas and it begins by closing the loopholes and ending the tax breaks that send our good kentucky jobs overseas, and continues with strengthening the middle class. we do that by increasing the minimum wage, in contrast to the 17 vote senator mcconnell has said saying no to increasing the minimum wage. putting hard-working kentuckians back to work and >> it's a good question to readers race is about the next six years and who can do the most for kentucky. there's a great likelihood i will be the leader of the majority in the senate next year. the majority leader gets to set

the agenda not only for the country but to look out for kentucky's interest. one of the basic questions here is who can do the most for kentucky over the next six years? we have had an anti-jobs agenda during this administration. virtually everything the president has tried to do has been a job destroyer. the spending, the borrowing, the taxing, the over regulating. if we had a chance to have a new agenda in the senate to begin to take america in a different direction, we would be voting on things like approving the keystone pipeline, which would enable about 20,000 people to go to work very quickly. we would be voting on things like pushing back against the environmental protection agency and the war on coal. this cost us 7000 coal mining jobs during the obama years. for every coal mining job you lose three more. they are in a depression in eastern kentucky entirely caused by the obama administration.

creating jobs, trying to get america going again in a different direction. >> there have been a number of media reports on voting and who voted for which president and what year it happened to be in. secretary grimes, you made news across the state and the nation about that question. the first question to you is why are you reluctant to give an answer on whether or not you voted for president obama? >> there is no reluctance. this is a matter of principle. our constitution grants the right to privacy at the ballot box for a secret ballot. you have that right, every kentucky has that right. as secretary of state, the chief election official, i'm tasked with overseeing in making sure we are enforcing all of our election laws. i have worked very closely am especially with the members of our military, to ensure the privacy of the ballot box.

those that lay their life on the line. >> so your reluctance is standing on principle rather than answering the question. >> i'm not going to compromise a constitutional right provided herein kentucky in order to curry favor on one or another side or for members of the media. i will protect that right with everything i have. you have that right, senator mcconnell has that right. every kentuckian has the right for privacy at the ballot box. if i don't stand up for that right, who in kentucky will? >> during the campaign you said you were a clinton democrat. i'm curious about what in your mind separates a clinton democrat rum and obama democrat. >> from my work here in kentucky and in this campaign, it is one that is based on growing the middle class. as with all under president clinton's tenure, especially

when you increase the minimum wage, you help expand the middle class. we solve some of the largest growth under president clinton's tenure than ever before. we have not seen that. congress has a role. your united states senator plays a huge role, and you get to hear from senator mcconnell tonight how it is he would actually help kentucky get more jobs. he doesn't even think it is an issue to bring jobs here. that was his words to voters in lee county kentucky. the difference growing middle-class the right way, by making sure rebuilding from the foundation up. >> can i respond? >> there's no difference. the clinton support what the epa is doing in the war on coal. there's not a dime's worth of difference tween a clinton democrat and obama democrat. there's also no sacred right to not announce how we vote.

i voted for mitt romney, proudly. i voted for john mccain. and by the way, and 2012, 116 out of 120 downey's in kentucky -- counties in kentucky agree with my judgment that we might be in better shape now had mitt romney been elected. with regards to minimum wage, the congressional budget office, run by former clinton staffer who my opponent so greatly admires said that raising the minimum wage right now will cost between a half-million and a million jobs in our country. independent studies indicate it will cost 17,000 jobs here in kentucky and an economist i just read sunday said the city of louisville is thinking about doing -- it would cost 1400 jobs in the city of louisville. 50% of the jobs come from young people who are having a heck of a time finding work. i can't think of a worse time to be killing jobs for young people than right now. let me just finish, there are times when a minimum wage

increase would be appropriate, but not in a jobless recovery like this. >> i have not heard yet, is the senator for or against increasing the minimum wage? when he went to california he was against it. you are consistently against helping people here in kentucky actually earned a living wage. let me respond to the false allegations regarding the studies that have been done. 90% of those that are on a minimum wage are older than 20 years old. >> let me allow bethany spencer to ask a question, do you think the minimum wage is a livable wage? >> the minimum wage is largely an entry-level wage. 50% of the people who earn the minimum wage are young people who are beginning a career. they don't stay at that rate very long. but if you engage in this kind of minimum wage increase right

now -- this is a liberal staffer who used to work for bill clinton who runs the congressional budget office. you're going to destroy a half-million jobs, 50% of them for young people. the reason things like this are being contemplated is because of this slow recovery we've had after the recession of 2008. everything this administration has done has made the recovery worse, the borrowing, spending, taxing and over regulating. that's why these issues come up. the last thing we ought to be doing is destroying jobs for young people. >> how do you counter that argument? that is bethany spencer. do you think the minimum wage is a living wage? >> bethany, thank you for that great question. i do believe we must work to increase the minimum wage so it is a living wage. $7.25 our does not allow a family of four rise above the poverty level. the studies that have been done here in kentucky, and perhaps that is what senator mcconnell has lost sight of.

being in washington for 30 years can do that. the studies that have been done here in kentucky show that if you increase the minimum wage, you would help increase incomes for 30% of kentuckians. create thousands of good paying jobs. the cbo reports -- >> would it not be a job killer? >> it's what he never tells you about his record, the full story. the full story of the cbo report is it would help lift over a million americans out of poverty. the way we actually grow the middle class and put hard-working kentuckians back to work is by giving them a living wage. that's what america's about. he has gotten rich while consistently voting to keep kentucky poor, and we can't have a senator like that anymore. >> i can let that stand. she should be given for

pinocchio's for that. >> is he not a multimillionaire? >> she knows that's the result of an inheritance that my wife got when her mother passed away, and she has consistently gone around all over the state and suggested that i've somehow enriched myself at public expense. let me tell you, her family has made more money off the government in the last 10 years than i've been paid in salary and all my time in the senate. that is an outrageous suggestion. she knows it's wrong. >> the votes speak for themselves. 17 times voting against increasing the minimum wage. you heard him here tonight. he's not forgiving kentuckians a minimum wage. i know the woman he gets up at 6 a.m. to work two jobs because not only does she have a senator that doesn't think she deserves equal pay for equal work, but she's not earning a living wage. we have to change that, not just

for the women of kentucky, but the workers in kentucky and across the nation. >> let me remind everyone if you're just tuning in, you are watching kentucky tonight with secretary grimes and senator mcconnell. let's return to voting just for a moment. you have no hesitation about who you voted for. in the kentucky u.s. senate republican primary in 2010, who did you vote for? >> trey grayson. >> i ask you the difference in a clinton democrat and at obama democrat. what's the difference between a tea party republican and established republican? >> the tea party movement was spawned by kind of a popular uprising against the spending, borrowing, and taxing of the obama administration. it produced a lot of energy and enthusiasm for our party, which i think led to a lot of success in 2010. we have had some spirited

primaries around the country since then. thus like the democrats have had in kentucky forever. it leads to a stronger party in the general election. i had a primary myself this year. i don't own the seat, i have to earn it. i think it produced no bad outcome, any more than having democratic primaries have produced bad outcomes for them over the years. >> i'm going to assume that most people who are following the u.s. senate race in kentucky have heard you both speak a lot about issues and they have seen an ad or two on television and heard on the radio. i don't know if they've heard a lot about what you believe in how it contributes to what you think might be the philosophy or role of government that you have. talk to me about the fundamental roles, the proper role of the government in people's lives, secretary grimes.

>> i do believe that government has a place to help make the lives of kentuckians better. we are a superpower in the world and we have two objectives, to advance our economic interests and protect our u.s. homeland. that doesn't mean we have to be the world's police. we have work that we have to do with battles right here on our home front. here in kentucky, they include helping to put thousands of kentuckians back to work who under senator o'connells many years in washington have found themselves in dire circumstances, unable to put food on the table and gas in the car. it begins by making sure that the women of kentucky get equal pay for equal work, something senator mcconnell has been against. that they have a senator who strengthens and protects

medicare and social security. >> you see that as the role of government in people's lives? >> i believe the government has a place to help make the lives of kentuckians better, and we have to have a senator that knows kentucky through and through, not one that is out of touch, but one that knows the people of kentucky are struggling. >> equal pay for equal work has been the law since the civil rights act of 1964 and 1965. the job of the senator, in my view, is to protect to the maximum extent possible this great country and its framework. and the framework involves making sure that people have an opportunity to realize their ambitions. which means that too much government can frequently be a deterrent to opportunity. that is something we have to watch, to protect against, when

you have an explosion of spending and debt and taxes and regulation like we've had over the last few years. what it does is depressed the economy, make it less likely our young people can find work and begin to dig their way out of all this. in the senate there's an off duty to save and protect jobs almost every day. in paducah, for example, the cleanup, the new conversion plant that is being built there, all advocated and supported by the guy you are looking at. over here in richmond, the chemical weapons cleanup is employing hundreds and hundreds of high skilled people, stepping in down at lake cumberland this year when they decided a little fish was in danger by raising the water level, oddly enough,

solving that problem so to get tourism up and running this your. it is accommodation of protecting the opportunities that people have to better their lives and to create jobs, virtually on a weekly basis, by preventing things that kill jobs and actually appropriating funds to create job opportunities. >> secretary grimes, could you give me one specific from your jobs plan where the federal government would enhance people's lives in kentucky? >> sure, first, let me say the senator has admitted there's opportunities to save and protect jobs every day in the senate. but what we've seen here in kentucky is that our unemployment is above the national average. we are running a 90,000 jobs deficit under his watch. middle-class kentuckians are continuing to struggle in each of the areas he just mentioned. those jobs are still lost, not recovered. my jobs plan calls for making sure we actually grow the middle

class the right way. we could help kentuckians lives improved by making sure that we fight for early childhood education. we fight to give businesses a tax incentive to actually provide child care services. we fight for our veterans to receive the proper treatment when they come back from serving this country and the benefits they are due. >> if you are elected, the federal government would participate in those ideals your spelling out? >> we would fight for the vital infrastructure projects that kentucky needs and deserves. i-66 and 69, these are vital infrastructure projects that kentucky senators should be fighting for. instead we've had a senator that has just been fighting for himself. >> of course none of that is factually accurate. the biggest problem we've got in the country that affects kentucky in a dramatic way is

this job killing obama administration which my opponent supports. they have crushed the economy. this is the slowest recovery after a deep recession since world war ii. normally when you have a deep recession, you have a quick bounceback. it did not happen this time, and the reason it did not happen is because all of the government excess we have experienced in the obama years has been particularly acute in our state with the war on coal. the congress in the first two years of the obama administration, when it was entirely controlled by the president's party, passed the stiumulus, obamacare, dodd-frank, and all the rest, could not give cap and trade through the congress. now he is trying to do it through the epa. this is an administration-

created depression in eastern kentucky. giving barack obama another vote in the senate, continuing this democratic majority in the senate is not going to do anything to improve america's economy, and certainly not kentucky's economy. >> we will address coal and we will address the economy. senator mcconnell, one in four kentucky children live in poverty. why? >> because we have not had the kinds of growth and opportunity -- i keep saying the same thing over and over again -- but the economy is very sick. even though unemployment appears to go down, the number of people looking for work is the same number of people you had in the carter administration. it is the labor participation rate. it tells you a lot of people have dropped out. we need to lift people up. the only way to do that is through a vibrant private sector. this administration has been a disaster at getting our economy going.

it has been doubly acute here in kentucky -- because of the assault on the coal industry. >> we hear reports from economists that there are strong job gains nationally in 2014, on pace to be the best job growth year since the 1990's. the unemployment rate is below 6% for the first time since 2008. 10.3 million jobs, over 55 straight months. doesn't this speak that things are on the uptick? >> not by much. it is a very, very tepid recovery, the most tepid recovery after a deep recession since world war ii, so it is not providing enough lift. and then if you add on to that this devastating assault on the coal industry by the epa, and it explains why kentucky is lagging even in this slow economy. we are slower than the rest because of the assault by this administration on our state. >> secretary grimes, let me ask you to address the poverty question, one in four children living in poverty.

and i ask the question, why? >> the jobs plan -- it is a statistic that is glaring, that needs a senator. not just one that after 30 years -- >> how would you address it? >> that is what united states senators should be fighting for. our jobs plan is an action oriented jobs plan that works for our families and veterans, cultivating what is unique in kentucky, training our workers not just for today but for tomorrow, that we are invigorating appalachia and offering better wages and negotiating a better deal. we do this not only by fighting to strengthen and protect our good coal jobs, but making sure we diversify our economies in eastern and western kentucky, something our jobs plan that was developed with kentuckians from both eastern and western kentucky acknowledge has been a failure under senator mcconnell. we have to have someone who

wants to make sure to invest in the infrastructure projects we need in kentucky. the science, technology, and math programs. we have to have someone who wants to bring eastern and western kentucky online, not someone like senator mcconnell who wants to vote against on the best bills to bring in that growth. >> she did not mention a single program except the minimum wage. the minimum wage increase that she advocates is going to cost us a lot of jobs for young people. a much better way to target the low-income people you are talking about is the earned income tax credit. the way to deal with that underemployment problem, a much better way to do it without killing any jobs, is the earned income tax credit, which is already a part of the tax law

and ought to be grown and expanded. >> let me stop here, bill. that is amazing to see the senator say that the earned income tax bill is something that should be grown, because he supported budgets that actually slashed that. his record is against the earned income tax credit. >> i don't have any idea what she has talking about. i have been a long supporter of the -- >> he supported bills that slashed that funding. >> in a large budget vote there are probably things in there that you can pluck out that anyone of us might not prefer. but when you put together a budget, and secretary grimes has not had this experience yet, but when you put together a whole

budget, you will not approve of absolutely everything in there. what the budget is designed to do is put an overall cap on what we are going to spend. you cannot serve in a legislative body and not occasionally cast a vote for something that you are not crazy about because there are other things in the measure that you like. >> senator, secretary, let's talk about the affordable care act. secretary grimes, you have said of the affordable care act you would like to see it streamlined and fixed. i believe that is a quote. let me begin by asking this question, a tweet from john valentine in louisville -- "has obamacare and connekt been a boon or a bane for the majority of us kentuckians?" >> the website can continue, but

in my view, the best interest of the country would be achieved by pulling out obamacare root and branch. let me tell you why. in order to try to provide subsidies for the uninsured -- roughly 40 million of them -- 85% americans had health insurance. obamacare took $700 million out of medicare, the program for the elderly, and used it as a piggybank -- $700 billion out of medicare, the program for the elderly, out of the last 10 years, and subsidize people -- that was mistake number one. number two, the medical device tax, and the health insurance premium tax. over on the consumer side, you have lost jobs, the cbo estimates 2.5 million jobs lost. higher premiums, higher deductibles, higher copayments.

a lot of catastrophic impact on the nation's health care system, which could have been avoided by not passing this 2700-page bill that put the government in charge of america's health care. that was a big mistake. with regard to connekt, it is a state exchange that can be -- with regard to the medicaid expansion, that is a state decision. not.-- in our state, the governor decided to expand medicaid. >> you would support the continuing of connect? >> i think it is fine to have a website, yeah. >> well, it has also ensured 521,000 -- 85,000 of those are in the private insurance market.

>> those people, in all likelihood, now are paying more for less. and the hospitals are now experiencing a new kind of uncompensated care. people who now have insurance but the copayments and deductibles are so high, they still cannot pay. the federal government is now telling health insurance companies what they can sell. on a couple of points, and secretary grimes, we will ask you to respond in a couple of minutes. on the cbo report of $716 billion, that is spread out over 10 years. and $400 billion, according to the research i read, is due to changes in annual updates on fee-for-service payments to hospitals and other service like facilities like home health. they are a value-based reference in payment to medicare. >> that is washington talk for a cut. i have had 70 hospital town hall meetings over the last two years.

our hospitals are being rimracked by these reductions. these are the people who take care of the elderly, and they are being rimracked by the obamacare medicare reimbursement reductions. i was in a couple of meetings in the last couple of weeks. they are not going to be provided as many services if these are cut. billion raid on medicare in order to provide subsidies for people who are not old and not poor enough to be on medicaid. that bill is a huge mistake. cbo say thee decline in the number of full-time equivalent workers or people not being employed at all and others working fewer hours, isn't that the way some have interpreted a job loss?

>> let's put it simply. 2.5 million people fewer will be working. i do not think that is a good idea for the country, to have more joblessness, particularly as a result of this bill which was a huge step in the wrong direction. i think it is the worst piece of legislation that has been passed in the last half-century. >> and premiums are going up across the country. deductibles are going up, copayments are going up. the other day it was announced at 14,000 people were losing their policies here in kentucky. i am sure there are some people who are getting insureds who did not have it before. most of the people who signed up our medicaid. that is, medicaid-eligible people who are signing up. but in the private insurance market >>

-- how many are getting insurance after the policies are canceled? >> i'm not sure the number is available. i hear from them all the time. >> how would you vote on a bill to repeal the affordable care act? >> i have said this is a matter of standing up for 500,000 kentuckians. there is work we have to do to fix the a formal care act. we have to have a senator that realizes what the realities are here in kentucky, and the land that mcconnell is into is not show the statistics in the state. we are going to the doctor, they are getting checkups. i will not be a senator that rips that insurance from their hand. >> we you give me one specific area where you would either streamline or fixed the if boardwalk care act? >> extend the grandfathering

clause. when politicians make promises, if you like your doctor and we mean to keep that. there is more work that has to be done, but it requires a senator that wants to's stop the partisan politics and trying to score points -- ekt?ould you restore conn >> more than half a million of kentuckians are benefiting. there is more work we have to do, but we have to have a senator that wants to work in conjunction, especially with kentucky to get it done. >> we appreciate you being here tonight. let's move to a topic that came up a minute ago that has garnered quite a bit of interest in the campaign. there are plenty of coal miners in east kentucky who have been out of work for two years or more.

them are watching tonight. how would you help them after this election, senator mcconnell question mark >> here is the goingm, but it is worth back because it is the biggest problem in the state right now. the administration has issued two regulations through the epa pursuing a goal that could not pass when they totally control the congress a couple years ago. -- would guarantee another guarantee not another coal-fired plant. they want to shut this industry down. and welook at the -- know what the mission is here. it is global carbon emissions. no industrialized country in the world is going to do this. germany which is to be the in europe istry

now importing coal. the indians have called greenpeace a threat area economy and say they have no interest in reducing carbon emissions. the carbons are billed -- that chinese are building coal-fired plants. even if you felt that this is a cause worth pursuing, our doing have zero impact. so what we need to do in congress -- and we have not been able to get any votes because harry reid will not let a single vote on coal to occur -- is begin to restrict the funding of the environmental protection agency so they cannot go down this path. >> a quick follow-up question -- is this a place that a world power should take a leadership position in and be the first to

take action against global warming -- >> the president has been trying to take a leadership position, no one is interested in tying their hands behind their back and creating more problems for their people in pursuit of a goal they do not -- >> you are not looking for the united states to be the first one? >> our job is to look out for kentucky's coal miners. this administration has engaged in an assault. we have lost 7000 jobs. it is a disaster. they need to be stopped. that is one thing if the american people change the makeup of the senate and give me a chance next year to set the agenda for the country and for kentucky, we will at least be voting on efforts to rein in epa. let me say one final thing. the reason harry reid won't allow any votes on coal is he is afraid they will actually pass. i will guarantee we will vote on those kinds of issues. >> secretary grimes, how will you help coal miners if you are

elected? >> i am helping them right now, trying to push our current senator to support commonsense measures that would protect the health and safety of our miners. like the legislation proposed by jay rockefeller and senator manchin, to make sure that the health care coal protection benefit act is supported by kentucky senators, all things that have not happened yet. i am proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with the united mine workers in kentucky and across the nation. they have endorsed me because they are ready for a senator that will have their back and fight to make sure they will get the benefits they are due and deserve, not have to fight, as they are doing right now, the current senator, to get the black lung benefits that they deserve, the protections that helps make it easier for our minors, the retirees, the

widows, the families to get those benefits. senator mcconnell has told you here tonight he wants to repeal root and branch. we have to work across the aisle in a coalition effort to build, especially with other energy producing states, the effort to make sure that senator reid or whomever the majority leader is listens to those here in kentucky to make sure that coal has its rightful place as a primary american export. the voice of mitch mcconnell is still not being heard in washington, especially to the benefit of our coal miners. >> secretary grimes, what is your position on climate change? do you question at all the scientific evidence and research that lends itself to the debate going on with climate change? >> i don't think you have to be a scientist to recognize the realities of what is happening around us. it did not stop senator mcconnell from having an opinion

on how to move the economy forward. it should not stop you here. i recognize, unlike senator mcconnell, the realities of global warming. but i do believe we have to take a balanced approach, and that is fighting to protect the good jobs we have here in the state, especially coal jobs, with solutions to make sure that we leave this world in a better place for my nieces and nephews, for the children i hope to have some day. i think that balanced approach is looked at as a fighting example for clean coal technology. under senator mcconnell's watch, kentucky has gone without the funding we need to make such technology affordable. we cannot go any longer without a senator that does not have the backbone to stand up and fight for our miners and their jobs. >> do you believe that clean coal technology is in fact working and is viable and there is a demonstration of that somewhere in the united states

or the world? >> i believe it exists. i believe we have to fight -- >> where is it? >> you can see in west virginia, the research and development they are doing there is tremendous. i will be that senator, and i am proud to have the united mine workers support. >> you have talked about the economy, senator mcconnell -- and i think you would grant that you are not an economist -- and the aca, but you are not a medical doctor. do you believe that we should even be discussing climate change? >> look, there are a bunch of scientists who feel this is a problem and that maybe we can do something about co2 emissions. george will, the columnist, wrote recently that back in the 1970's a lot scientists felt we

were moving toward an ice age. i think the main thing to understand here is the job of the united states senator from kentucky is to fight for coal jobs in our state. this administration has destroyed 7000 of them. it is not surprising that secretary grimes had the support of the umwa. >> i think it is worth noting -- i hate to interrupt -- under this administration, senator mcconnell fails to see he has a role, and all of the jobs that have been lost in the state, they are on your watch, senator. you have been here for 30 years, and you do not want to take any responsibility for the loss of jobs in the state. it is wrong. >> secretary grimes, if i may, congress did not pass what the president is doing. we defeated it.

when your party controlled both the house and the senate by large majorities. this is a barack obama war on the coal industry, through the epa. congress did not do any of this. >> and a failure on senator mcconnell's part to form a coalition to stand up? you cannot just read one line of a cbo report or take one line of someone's resume. and what senator mcconnell's resume shows -- what he has been working for is not the people of kentucky or eastern or western kentucky looking to have their economies further developed. the only person washington benefiting the senator mcconnell in the millionaires in billionaires that he has bankrolled. >> do you want to respond to that, senator? we mentioned this before, that we started our conversation with

a journalist from the "courier-journal," and i have been teaching a course this semester about you, the u.s. senate race. one of their assignments was to write out a question. this is from anthony pendleton jr. from lexington. he wrote this question -- "student loan debt hit a recently -- a recent high of $1.2 trillion. it is keeping people from getting married, buying a home. what do we do to fix this, senator mcconnell?" >> the reason this young man has a problem like this is because the economy is so poor. we are in a situation here where young people get out of school, having gone into serious debt, and having gone into serious debt, and then cannot find work. unless we get the economy going, this problem is going to persist.

my opponent supports a bill that is a big tax increase, and i think that is exactly the wrong thing to do in this environment. until we get this economy going, we are not going to be able to have much of an impact on this problem. let me just say, obamacare also affects this. the governor's decision to expand medicaid, the two biggest items in every state budget are medicaid and education -- that leads to the legislature reducing funding for education, that is passed on to public universities and they raise tuition. health care costs are driving tuition up and compounding the problem further for these young people. >> secretary grimes? >> i think this again shows the complete difference between senator mcconnell, the senator of the past versus the senator for the future, a senator who just gave you washingtonspeak versus someone who is kentucky through and through, someone who wants self-promotion

for his party, versus someone who wants to be a senator for the people of kentucky, especially our students. i wholeheartedly believe the filibustering effort senator mcconnell led against the recent bill this year to reduce the student loan debt facing our students was wrong. we have to have a senator that realizes we have 360,000 students here in kentucky who are being crushed by student loan debt. a woman made the right decision, went to college, that she now has a student loan payment that is higher than her mortgage. she does not have a senator who wants to back her. she has a senator in mitch mcconnell who said he will not consider allowing a debate or a vote on refinancing student loan. >> do you support the legislation? >> it is not just senator warren's bill. it is supported by countless republicans as well. to make sure we are putting kentuckians, especially our students and graduates first.

they deserve a senator that wants -- >> it is not supported on a bipartisan basis at all. all it does is pass the debt on to the federal government, which under the obama administration, the debt has exploded. we have had more debt during the obama years than all the presidents from george washington down to george bush. so what secretary grimes is grimes is saying let's add more debt. what we are leaving behind for them is threatening their future. every generation of americans has gone to their grave believing that they could -- that they had in fact left behind a better america than their parents left for them. that is now in doubt, and his massive debt we have hanging over the future has really compromised the chances of our young people fulfilling their dreams and living the kind of lives they had hoped to live. >> if i might, i want to address the massive debt that we have -- it is $17 trillion.

it is 17 trillion reasons why not to send senator mcconnell back for another 6 years. two wars on the nation's credit card? >> i will ask you to go first. november 4 has great significance for you. but on november 5, kentuckians all over this commonwealth will get up, go to a job, if they have one, pay a mortgage, and they will try to feed a family. what i want to close tonight with both of you -- they want to know which of you they can trust more to provide for them a decent standard of living and equality of opportunity. secretary grimes, you have 30 seconds. >> well, i believe kentuckians know my record. it is a record of being an independent thinker, putting partisanship aside, and putting the people of this state first.

that is what my job is all about. it's a comprehensive jobs plan, i am the only one in this race. that we fight for them to earn a living wage. that we fight for women to pass not just the right but that it be enforced, equal pay for equal work. that we fight for our seniors to strengthen and protect our seniors for social security. >> a very good question. who can best look out for our state over the next six years? i think i have demonstrated that i have the leadership qualities to do that. a recent poll of congressional staffers called me the hardest- working member of the united states senate out of 100. we have a chance to have the hardest-working senator for another six years. >> senator, secretary, thank you for being here. join us next week for another program on "kentucky tonight."

tomorrow is election day come and on "washington journal," final predictions. then analysts and predictions from several reporters, starting with jessica taylor. calls, e-mailne comments and tweets. lives tuesday at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. throughout campaign 2014, c-span has brought in more than 130 candidate debates from across the country in races that will determine control of the next congress. tuesday night to watch live election night coverage to see who wins, loses, and which party will control the house and senate. coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern with results and analysis. you will see candidate entry and concession speeches in some of

the most closely watched senate races across the country. we want to hear from you with your calls for facebook comments, and tweets. campaign 2014 election night coverage on c-span. >> coverage continues over the next couple of hours. we will show you some of the debates in the senate races that could control the races next year. theext, a rebroadcast of final louisiana senate debate. some call that state the jungle primary. we will follow that up with your phone calls. ae independent is in competitive race against pat roberts. we will follow that up with the iowa u.s. senate debate.