other form of misconduct that was discovered during the investigation. action against the remaining 27% could not be taken due to as insufficient evidence, victims declining to participate in the justice process, and other evidence paced reasons. as you can see, the percentage cases ending in some type of action is up considerably from in 2009. we believe this does represent the investments the department andmade in the training resourcing of criminal investigators and attorneys over years. this slide answers the question, commandersmilitary adjust allegations of sexual assault when they have sufficient evidence of a sexual assault and the legal authority over the accused. red line, see by the in 2014, two-thirds of the legalders supported by advise chose to address the allegationings by court pa shal.

best% of the cases it was addressed by the nonjudicial punishment process. received some form of administrative action or discharge. the offenses beg described here range from crimes like groping, up through penetrating crimes dispositionn each reflects the level of evidence and severity of the crime argue to the legal standards of the code of military justice. the report,ed in and the secretary mentioned this is the first of its kind survey of military survivors of sexual sought who departmentrt to the in 2014. what is reflected in the report is our initial analysis of about 150 survey responses and what we ongoing survey. we strongly belief the feedback from survivors who use our service is an important source of data we can why to improve support.d our

overall those survivors that responded to our survey were with the assistance they received from our first responders and service providers. note, special victims counsel attorneys and sexual assault response coordinators were the highly rated by survivors who used these services and 89%g 90% satisfaction ratings respectively. of most concern, and the secretary spoke to this, were who perceived some kind of social or professional retaliation. indicated theys perceived some type of social retaliation associated with their report, and 40% indicated they perceived some kind of professional retaliation. behaviors associated with both defined forms are you at the bottom of the slid. while this surveys with not force, we the full asked about perceptions of well on theas

scientific survey of active duty this summer. of those women who experienced sexual contact and reported it to d.o.d. authority, indicated perceiving some kind of retaliation associated with the report. perceiving social retaliation and a lesser amount professional retaliation. this is one metric in which the department cannot demonstrate progress. one additional insight we were able to gain from the sur ray is received fairly high marks in their support of victims, but these high marks did not extend to all as you move down the chain of command. data we haver indicates that commanders appear to be providing good support, but others in the command and supervisory chain may not have the skills and go to do the same. this last sum of the defense conducted focus groups at 10 installations to capture moremation that is

qualitative in nature. the themes they capture from not beroups may generalizable to the entire force, they were heard across services and the national guard. this approach lets us provide an our soldier, what sailors and airmen and marines are saying and thinking about assault 'the departments efforts to address it. here's what they told us. training they've been extensively, consistent with the data focus group members noticed a positive shift in the departments handing of sexual and harassment, and this shift is a substantive change from years past. with few exceptions, focus group participants indicated the todership was working hard encourage an environment of dignity and respect. however they too saw the potential for those making a report to perceive social and professional retaliation for reporting. also included in the report in a separate annex is a review of militaryms in the

justice system since april, 2012. military justice system has seen change over the fast few year's changes were the most sweeping reforms since the late 1960's. victims' rights and legal protections have been expanded, while commanders' discretion over sexual assault cases has been limited, with decision making for the having been higher more experienced levelings of command. these and other reforms are currently under way. is also reviewing the responses to the panels recommendations to further improve sexual assault prevention and response and the judicial proceedings panel is among other things, the reforms that have already been implemented. next year the review group will tomake recommendationings further amend the code of military justice. however, their focus will be the military justice in yen and is not specific to sexual assault.

announcing -- the first two listed here specifically address retaliation. we firmly believe we have an only tbaition to assure the sexual assault can report the crime without concern retall wraition from their peers or anyone else. therefore the secretary is directing action to have military commander specifically follow up on experiences retaliation when in groupr the manage that reviews an installation's response to all reports of assault.ught commanders will be asking about retaliation against victims or then responders responders and referring these experiences for appropriate tof do so. second, as indicated by our commandersunit receive fairly high marks in their support of victims and promote a climate of dignity and respect. however, this does not appear to other individuals

down the chain. so for this reason the secretary directing improved training for military first loin supervisors and those civilians that supervise military members. thatkills and knowledge allow someone to promote a healthy climate and prevent acquired inmust be practice. first line supervisors are the most likely to see unacceptable behaviors when they and take quick corrective action. third, consider the local factors that prevent the efforts. does not fit all when it comes to prevention. army base at a large in a metropolitan area may not necessarily work at a small air more remoten a rural area. in study will help us identify concrete examples of what things military communities can do to further prevent sexual assault. finally, feedback from our

focus group sessions indicated that our troops may benefit from hearing about the progress we're making in sexual assault and response. so this final directive will require the service to provide to ourk directly soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in an active way. in summary, the departments report documents substantive progress since 2012, progress we seniork was ignited by leader engagement, a commitment to transparency and members ofon with congress and other federal partners. however, no one here is declaring success. that from the secretary and i'll reiterate it. we have much more work to do. any decrease in prevalence indicates that there are fewer victims of this horrible crime, and i think we all would agree is that a step in the right direction. andill continue to monitor publicize our progress, we're not satisfied, and recognize the will be defined

by continued decloses in prevalence of sexual assault. intention to continue prevention work as broadly and possible so ass to reach our goal of eliminating sexual assault from the military. truly on is reenforcing a climate where sexual assault is seen as acceptable, not just because it's illegal, but because it is counterto our core values. at this point i'll be joined by the department's highly qualified expert, who i'm very fortunate to have as my partner in this expeforts we'll be happy to take your questions. >> two things. one on the retaliation, you've addressed that quite a bit. but obviously last year's 50% playedo, you think that any role in the fact that there was a lot of retaliation and was only, there was a smaller increase this year, that that theo you think

tamped downissue reporting over some time? and how do you address that, are officers obviously, sound like, who people are retaliation even if they're first line. how do youtraining, get though those first line people? you haven't yet done. and i have a followup. >> okay. at that.ke a stab last year you are correct, we increase in reports. the challenge last year was that when we reported that, not have aly we did prevalency survey and we didn't thathe feedback from that specifically addresses retaliation, so it's from to no.lt talked, we're we

talking about not making progress from the retaliation found by the report in 2012, compared to 2014. with regard to officers, when we line supervisors, you're right, we're talking we're alsocers, but talking about junior noncommissioned officers. most direct of the demographic that is most at risk, which is to 21-year-old. want toere anything you add to that? >> okay. next. you said you had a par two. >> part two, and pardon me if i'm wrong because there are a of numbers out there. but it sounded to me like the of prosecution as respect seemed a little flat from last year to this year.

so that hade 73% or some action taken and that up number wasn't all that different. and the court martial number seemed to go down some why do of thingsthat end didn't go up? just say this. this is, that's why i made the specificallyalk evidence based. so this is one of those metrics we report it, but it's what the evidence presents. so it happened to be the same last year and this year, we just see that as the facts as they came us to. the second thing with regard to right,rt martial, you're there has been a trend in up there slide 8, if you can. but what you're showing is if

you look at this, what it shows, out,the documentary came it shows that there probably a, that, given the evidence that was presented. but obviously we have come a forward.from 2009 just because there's been a slight decrease, that is what for 2014.ce shows again once again, we don't see that as a bad thing. that as what the evidence provided us. >> i would just offer that even was thehe percentage same, the actual numbers increased and that's what's along the bottom line there. i actually show you the number of military offenders that were considered by channelers in each you'lle years, and notice there's almost a 300 increase there. ask because, as you know, it was one of the issues that congress has been deeply concerned about and does this sort of add fuel to the fire for

in some of the commanders' authorities and all see, because we don't because we do see a drop in that number. >> i think the point about, you know, a drop in percentage, but ins actually an increase number. >> you mentioned that the retaliation was one of the 12 metrics, one of the two to the not increased. what was the other one? >> thank you, i'm glad you asked that. i don't know that you have the crystal, could you go to the first slide. the answer to your question is length, okay. investigation length. this crime isme reported, there is referred to investigative,al it must be investigated. the we found is that investigation length increased

four months to 4.7 months. this,really looked at you'll note when you actually look at the slide, that's not, we didn't claim that as progress, but we didn't say that not progress either. why.'ll tell you reporting has increased dramatically. and when we've noticed is a number of these reports are 'reports that are happening not just in the past year but years to that. so the fact it's taken us longer to investigate them, we don't bad thing and upon reflection, although we listed it as a metric, we probably should have made it a nonmetric. what it is. >> also i had a question, you mentioned that military commanders' discretion over sexual assault cases were limited, and their decision making authority has been limited. more specific, how are they limited, what are the changes exactly? >> do you want to address that one? >> absolutely. one of the things that secretary in 2012 is he

elevated the initial disposition to 06 level officers, captains in the navy and in the army and air force that had special court martial convening authority. so what that men is one of the when an was is offender, when a commander gettings a report of an investigation and has to decide do, what if that commander knows this person that's been accused and they're command?ir well, the concern was that maybe aren't assions independent as they should be. panettasecretary directed was to elevate that decision up out of that unit and to a much higher level in the chain so that it had a more experienced officer who was removed from all the parties thelved to be able to give initial decision on what are we going to do with this case. martial,ng to court

things like that. in addition, there have been a number of things, changes to which addresses clemency, so the abyity of a commander to set aside a verdict finding of guilt has away.lmost all but taken and there are a number of reforms that i would refer to the judge advocates that could interest more detail. >> so my final on that with the you seen a change get number of cases that overthrown? because for a victim that's probably the bother thing, to conviction and then to see another officer overthrow that. have you seen significant number ofs in the cases? >> well, i haven't seen any. waslast one we're aware of the -- >> if i can just con include on that. asked the question, because there's an article in the "new york times" that wrote about this, and what i'd high light for you in that

comment, our system has changed so fundamentally that what happened in that particular case received a lot of publicity for all of the right reasons, that can't happen, okay. so that's why we say we have have not had any evidence, it hasn't happened. >> how about the sex offenders themselves, we've been reporting hundreds of them after they get out of the military end up falling off the radar or not into any public sex offender registry. and the inspector general of about in august how the military's inability to register sex offenders while they're still in confinement these offenders evade registration. so the question is, does the push on the hill that, where does the pentagon stand on this issue? >> i think that's one that i'm going to have to take. i was just going to say, that is one probably better left to

someone else, and probably the o.g.c. maybe but i don't have a -- >> it has not come to our tension yet? >> no. i knew, i have seen an extract what you are describing, but i will tell you that is not one in. i am well versed >> should the pentagon, if this is the office essentially that looking ate of sexual assault prevention and response, should there be an as prevention and response of further sexual communityn a civilian as well that comes under your leadership? >> i think that we have a relationship and we work very closely. been one thatot over, and my experience the last year that we've had that. but in light of your question, woe obviously take a hard look that. so thank you. yes. >> i was going to ask about the ineening of troops

positionings of trust that secretary hagel had ordered. the armyow, disqualified 588 soldiers. screeninging if that is ongoing and how many troops have been disqualify from those positionings and how many have discharged from service. >> you know, i can tell you that the answer to the question is ongoing, yes. and in the wake of that working to take that to the next level and auto that.ome of as to the specific question, i'd defer to the army on what their latest numbers are, i that.on't have yes. >> someone anded you a question on the retaliation. it indicatesday, the percentage of people in the survey who indicate that they perceived some form of retaliation has remain unchange 2012, 2014. first of all, what is the feelsism for someone who

retaliated to complain about that retaliation, and second, is indicating that the department of defense has prosecuted or investigated these of retaliation? >> let me take the first one and the turn it over to you for second one. au know, retaliation is such tough issue. anwould hope that if individual was willing to come beennd report that they've retaliated on, that they would tell someone, whether mits the outside themand or chain of command. if it were to to come to wouldship attention, it be investigated and followed up. unfortunately we don't have a statistics yet that tell us what in fact has been referred for investigation and to have more evidence of that as part of the annual report. anything you want to add to that? >> as an air force office special investigations agent for career, in my military

i followed up on any report of retaliation, because that was witness intimidation and something i definitely wanted to get after and hold people accountable. said, a new tool that congress gave us is making retaliation a violation under the uniform code of military justice. yet.'t have data on that our deadline was to shrink a five-month process to about 30 days. of the quality and wealth of da that that i usually have for an annual report i just have yet, but it will be coming this spring when we report to congress. data onu're collecting people who are reporting retaliation? >> we've had people ask and i'm out and collect that data, yes. a question to ask about rape, and penetrating that rand the way theed at it as opposed to

military. it appears that rand found the number of sexual assaults on involved4 that penetration was 35% versus 29% the militaryway has looked at the data. this?u familiar with >> intimately familiar. 35%.r men it worse, does this show that rape is a more worse, the worst form of sexual assault is much more problematic than you had initially thought? >> so the answer is no. but i'm going to -- there's two things. rand, ane, i would say minutes after this is going to separately have a briefing, through that,ou and i would encourage you to do that. because it's really going to lay out for you the differences and why. i really want to you have that, have thehose that just

numbers but don't have the briefing come to the conclusion rightd, and it's not the conclusion. >> as far aspen traiting crime goes, in our surveys we don't try to classify what kind of crime under the article people experience. that's why we have the broad category of penetrating verdict crime.nonpenetrating and they show you how they might be tapping boo some of the crimes people have experienced but maybe didn't necessarily sexual.at they were and because from the code of article 120,ice, the behavior that you experienced doesn't necessarily and that mightal be tapping into hazing and things like that, like the said.ary >> have you witnessed the demographics of the offenders? who they are, what their service histories have been, if they post-traumatic stress disorder, if they've been in iraq and afghanistan, have you

broken that down? if there's not a big problem in the air force but there is in marine, is that included in the report? >> that is not included in the report. the mostl you that for part our demographics are offenders are about 18 to 35 years old, they are in enlisted most of them between e2 and e7 or 8. of them in that main e5, e6.ut e40, we don, we're currently conducting some research right now that will given us a better insight as to service history come fromthese folks and what they've been doing, but i don't have that yet. >> okay. thank you very much. appreciate your interest in this matter. >> house minority leader nancy pelosi will hold a briefing on da,party appears general

she's expected to take questions on a spending measure needed to avoid another government shutdown. we'll have live coverage from 11:00 a.m.l today at eastern on c-span 2. later a forum on north korea and the west, we'll hear from journalists, former diplomats koreae president of the institute. 1:45overage begins at eastern, also on c-span 2. here are some of the programs you'll peub this weekend on the c-span networks. at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, live coverage of the formerl service for washington d.c. mayor marion barry. and sunday evening at 8:00 on c-span's q and a, ann compton who recently retired after over as abc news white house correspondent. saturday night at 10:00 on book 2, university of new hampshire assistant professor jason sokol on how the wasn't always the

haven of racial equality and supportive of african-american rights. sunday at noon our live three-hour conversation with enterpriseamerican president arthur brooks, with your phone calls, e-mails and tweets. american history tv on c-span 3, saturday night at history,ectures in university of michigan professor martha jones on female slaves and the law. sunday at 8:00 on the presidency, president george h.w. bush's former secretary of state, james baker, on the fall of the berlin wall, and the liberation of eastern europe. find our complete television schedule at koibz c-span.org, what you think about the programs you're watching. us, or send us a tweet. # like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. the, a conversation on

staten island grand jury decision to not indict a police garner case.e eric new york congressman jeff reese joined us on "washington talk about the case and law enforcement relations with minority communities. tinue. host: democratic congressman hakeem jeffries represents brooklyn in the congress this morning and he joins us to talk about budget issues and other things as the 113th congress winds down. talking to our viewers this money, reaction to the grand jury decision on staten island yesterday. what was your reaction? guest: good morning, bill. it's good to be back. miscarriage was a of justice. it's hard to believe how this grand jury could not have come in the a single charge context of the chokehold death of era garner, the took place --

eric warner, that took place for all the world to cm and was on video. it has been banned by police. the medical examiner ruled that his death was a homicide resulting from and chest compressions. we know that he called for assistance and said "i can't breathe" 11 different times. and on those 11 occasions, the ignored on the scene him. this is a tragedy. we need to look at our broken criminal justice system and its inability to deliver accountability, often when an officer delivers excessive force, particularly in the context of a young unarmed african-american man. where does this leave your faith with the new york city justice system? the police department, and the grand jury process? i continue to believe in

america and our capacity to rise to the occasion when faced with challenges. we've had challenges, particularly along race relations from the inception of the public. a serious problem, an epidemic of police violence that we have to confront. and there are people all across america who understandably have lost faith or never had faith in the ability of the criminal justice system to provide equal protection under the law. those are not just words. that is the 14th amendment of the united states constitution. we have some real work to do. it will require presidential leadership. it will require the justice department to move forward, as they have indicated, with a full and fair investigation as to whether eric garner's civil rights have been violated. and congress cannot run away from this problem. we have got to run toward this problem and be part of the solution. given that your party is

the minority again going into the 114th congress, what does that congressional leadership look like ecco guest: i've already been part of a task force on over criminalization that took place in the last two years of the judiciary level. five democrats, five republicans. significant ideological diversity. a justice system that has resulted in far too many people in america being incarcerated of all races, far too much prosecutorial discretion is exercised in an inappropriate fashion. and far too many restraints being put on judges in terms of the administration of justice in a fair and equitable fashion. i think that could be a starting place, fixing the criminal justice system through the lens where we can find common ground. host: and your background is as an attorney, correct? guest: absolutely. you could say i'm in it -- i am a recovering attorney at this point, but i practice for nine years. announcingdent obama

this week's call for 50,000 body police cameras and the funding to go with it. what impact do you think that will have? in theit's a modest step right direction. certainly, in the ferguson case as to where there was a lack of clarity as to what happened, and you had witnesses differing in their accounts, as what often occurs, and certainly the police officer communicating a version of events consistent with his desire to be exonerated. but many other witnesses indicating that excessive force seem to be used, body cameras would have provided clarity. but the garner case illustrates is notdeo footage alone significant. because we saw the entire encounter unfold as it relates to the chokehold death of eric garner, yet this grand jury did not indict. host: back to the business of

congress, today marks one week before the current budget agreement expires. a budget bill is coming up in the next week or so. what are the challenges there for you? guest: we've got to be able to fund the government and get out of a cycle of constant crisis. -- the full term funding mechanism has been employed because of congress's unwillingness to simply do our job. i'm hoping that in advance of december 11 will we -- when we run out of the lawful authority to fund the government, we will apply a funding mechanism through the next fiscal year so we can deal with the other problems facing the american people that they have elected us to solve. approving -- be will you be approving the funding of the body cameras echoed guest: i hope that comes up in the next congress. host: our guest is representative hakeem jeffries.

we invite you to join the conversation. and you can join us on twitter. you were an instigator behind the effort monday night for these so-called special order speeches. reacting to the ferguson grand jury decision. how did that come about? guest: the cbc felt it was important to address the issue head-on in criminal justice system and the need to really tackle the issue of how police officers interact with communities of color all across america. we have seen problems in ferguson and problems in staten island. recently in the brooklyn district that i represent, we had an unarmed 28-year-old african-american male who was shot dead by a police officer allegedly by accident, but the bullet went right through this man's chest into his heart.

this happens over and over again. it happened in the cleveland case with tamir rice. that wed to make sure took this issue seriously and that we focus on the problem in a manner that would be beyond words and move toward action. what is your relationship like with the new york city police department? guest: i have a very good relationship with the new york city police department and a great deal of respect for the department. they are there to protect and serve. people want the officers there. we just also want equal protection under the law. and police officers should also want a better relationship my because their best ally in crime-fighting can be areerating citizens who there to commit a gate in terms of the crime-fighting efforts. -- here isentioned a a tweet here indicating that

attorney general holder will be aaveling to cleveland where 12-year-old african-american boy was recent shot by a police officer. let's get to a call in fort myers, florida. this is carl. caller: thank you for taking my call. thented to comment on recent incident in new york -- are you there you go host: we are here. go ahead with your comment. thank you for the by wanted to comment on a recent incident in new york. there is a solution to these problems. i'm almost 70 years old. time, so whenong a cop tells me to do something, i do it. you don't resist cops. if they tell you to walk on the sidewalk, walk on the sidewalk. don't argue with them. if they tell you to put your hands up, they want to handcuff

the recent incident, you do what they tell you and there will be no problem. that is the problem with these people that they don't want to obey the cops. that is the simple problem. i mean, it's simple. i've never had a problem with a cop in my life. host: ok, carl. theghts on that? guest: sentiment that you want to comply with a lawful police order, i think should be obvious. i appreciate you making that -- that observation. but when you look at the video, eric garner is frustrated by the harassment from his perspective that was coming his way with respect to the allegation that he was selling loose cigarettes. that is an administrative violation. it is certainly not a capital offense that should have resulted in his death. but if you actually watch the video, which is the benefit of us having the footage for every

american to see, there is a point early on in the encounter where garner throws his hands in the air in a clear position of submission, but he's taken down by the officer and put into a chokehold, which by the way has been unauthorized by the police department for the past 20 years. it was a violation of police procedure. help by sayingor i can't breathe 11 different times. occasions,ifferent this officer and other officers failed to respond. that is the reason eric garner is dead. homicide, according to the medical examiner, and we have got to move forward, understanding those artifacts buried host: bob in west virginia -- those are the facts. bob in west virginia. you are on the air. what i wanted to say is

i am a former d.c. homicide detective. it is always a trap whenever law enforcement takes someone's -- a tragedy whenever law enforcement someone's life. however, i see we keep talking about the medical examiner said it was a homicide. taken, whether a justifiable homicide, or not, is really a homicide by the medical is enters office. -- examiner's office. a police officer, you see we are talking about a chokehold. what the person did was not a chokehold that is taught in law enforcement. so, it was not a chokehold. it was a bar hold across the throat.

as a former police officer, would you say there was another way to do use that situation? yes.r: he could have called on the radio for more police officers to come. the gentleman was extremely large. i am sure, the officer, as you see in the video, is a lot smaller than the person he was trying to arrest. been any there specific discussion yet in new york city about their encounters with the public, and not just this one scenario? us have hadal of conversations at the highest level of police and they have indicated there is some training that needs to take place. with respect to the medical examiner, i appreciate, bob, your perspective here. the medical examiner did

determine this was a homicide. the question for the grand jury is, was that justifiable? you just indicated correctly that it could have begun a different way. the chokehold was not a justified tactic and it did result in eric gardner's death. the morning, catherine. caller: i have a suggestion. my dream budget would include a project that would bring the country together. i will call it "usa power of the planet." a huge top priority project. in the past, we had the manhattan project, going to the , and ihe great society think the u.s. needs to spend put amounts of dollars and our minds together to create fusion energy. nonpolluting,,

and there are groups working and if we could focus and have a , not 20 time frame years, to create fusion energy, it would be good for the world. oil and coal and energy producing companies wouldn't like this. we have to include them by letting them help earn a certain percentage for maintaining or running be the buddies dared we have closed down the cold minds -- the coal mines. >> any sort of -- guest: notion of a big project that could capture the attention and the imagination of the american people in congress, it

is important. we have a comparable -- crumbling infrastructure system. we have fallen behind. i agree we have to look for things that bring people together and hopefully, in the next congress, we will do that. about thell ask you bill on the floor today. your colleagues, it is a bill to stop the president for -- from implementing. what do you think of this legislation? guest: we have got a broken immigration system and for too long, more than 300 days since bipartisanpassed the bill designed to fix our broken immigration system, the house of representatives would refuse to act. it is important for the president to step forward. every president since the white house in 1956 has enacted some form of executive action to deal

enforcement. a bill that has been done 39 times. it is an probe etch it is appropriate for the president to do it in this instance, but as the president has said, we should figure out a legislative solution to the problem. host: how much is immigration and legal status in issue in your district? guest: i have got an incredibly diverse district. african-americans, latinos, south asians, the orthodox , there are more than two dozen languages spoken that i represent. we are a gorgeous mosaic of the country in many ways and that is a wonderful. feedback from your

constituents on the president's plan? >> certainly. immigrants build the great big apple, just like they have helped to build the country. they are supportive of the president's actions. next up, kansas city, nate on our democrat line. in 2014, the u.n. anti-torture panel, that they are investigating indianized suggestive of police brutality, especially against african-americans. more goodbly does than anything. a lot of the things i noticed a going on is identical to what happened in nazi germany. when hitler told the people, they're going to make the

middle-class pay taxes for the poor people. that is pretty similar to what is happening now with so-called obamacare. that, he starts putting a lot of money in the military and things like that to hold onto his power and stuff like that. is, he had to demonize a group and the group he demonized was the juice. we all know how that -- how that worked out and how some of them got out of there but a lot of them got killed and they was killed on the streets and stuff like that. history is kind of repeating itself and the american people have to understand that there it they said, they will not let this happen again. i am glad they are investigating now. not not know why it is being talked about. they could if they wanted to, but the world will not let it happen again. my fathery i'm a

fought for this country and now we might have to have another country, here to save lack people. -- black people. nothing can historically be compared to the holocaust and the transatlantic slave trade. nothing can be historically compared to the native american genocide and there is a agile place in hell reserved for those who perpetrated those international horrors. but there clearly is a problem in this country as it relates to our broken criminal justice system and the inability to deliver justice whenever an unarmed afghan american male has been killed far too often by police officers without just nation. a problem we have to tackle. e-mails.welcome your this one is from taylor, who said, i really dislike the fact that the president and mr. mulder are trying to make eric

gardner's death about race. -- guest: this is a free country and protests are embedded in our opportunity. i support their right and people all across america who protest. this is america and we are all entitled to inspection -- two expression. host: how concerned were you that might get out of hand? guest: in new york, we have a long history in the aftermath of these types of tragedies, where

there is a real or perceived injustice in the context of police brutality and using excessive force, responding ,orcefully yet peacefully engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience or marches on the expressions of outrage among but doing it in a peaceful fashion. africanone when an immigrant was shot 42 times by four police officers, reaching for his wallet or his keys on his way in to his apartment. there were peaceful responses when sean bell was shot 50 times by police officers on the eve of his wedding day. an unarmed young african-american man. the response was peaceful. in new york, we will continue to be aggressive in expressing our outrage and seeking change. i fully expect that to be done in a peaceful fashion. i was here in washington overnight and i will be back in new york tomorrow at the end of the session.

host: back to calls, lawrence, welcome to our republican line. i am a 75-year-old white wobbly. host: what is that? outer: you can figure that and you can do some research and find it out. the justice system is not broken. it cannot be broken. you as a lawyer know full well how much lawyers and the law are involved in this whole mess. it is a very difficult mess. back to 1937. what happened was the harrison stamp act. the entire war on drugs is the root cause for all of this. is what has to be changed. what is happening in d.c. right now have to be addressed. senator andy harris, boehner,

and the rest of the congress that will go against d.c. law, and interfere. thank you very much for your service, and thank you, c-span. host: larry tweets about body cameras. he says their part of the problem and the increasing cost of policing cause >> separation. separation. guest: is very good point about our failed war on drugs that resulted in the over incarceration of individuals. people behind bars have committed largely nonviolent drug offenses and only 8% of people behind bars actually engaged in violent crime. a stunning statistic, one where

i think democrats and republicans can agree we need change. the other area i think we can move forward is to reevaluate the militarization of police apartments. there was a vote in july of this year, an amendment put forth to roll back the military surplus program. i voted against that amendment at the time, believing military surplus equipment in a post-9/11 environment in new york city, experiencing the horrors of 9/11, was a useful thing. but i think we have all got to reevaluate that program at this instance. ant we saw in ferguson was aggressive, military like response on american soil. that was unfortunate. host: on this bipartisan effort on incarceration, we have seen this with republicans and democrats. is any legislation coming out of that? hope. there is great we still have divided

government, even though republicans will control both houses of the united dates congress. we still have a democrat in the white house and two years left. he has got a job to do. we can put partisan politics aside. we're heading into a presidential cycle, but i think americans are tired of the perpetual campaign where as soon as one and am a the other begins and there is never a -- an opportunity. host: the morning, robert. -- good morning, robert. caller: i agree with the who mentioned the things about the nazis. the comparison with not see germany and with the united to the nazidentical party in germany. education in this country, just like a lot of people in

institutions, and a lot of german juice did not believe jews did not -- believe what they saw. thing is happening with extremist republicans in this country. they're undermining, defunding, holding back, the same things happen. verbalrman joseph perpetuated that stuff and the same thing is happening with fox news. let's go back to the comment in terms of republican reaction. what have you heard republican colleagues in terms of reactions to not only eric garner but the decision last week? >> there has been a lot -- last week? do has been a lot of silence although there have been many who believe we have a broken criminal justice system

and an over criminalization problem in america and that we spend too much money incarcerating individuals in an inefficient fashion and that there are threats to liberty and the threat for government overreach and taking away your liberty. point, on an historical we have to look at the legacy of slavery if we will look at anything. we have overcome a lot in this country, but we still have a long way to go or we move from slavery to jim crow, to the civil rights act in 1964 and 1965, the voting rights act, but we still have to figure out what makeneeds to be done to sure that equal protection under the law is truly a reality for everyone. you mentioned president obama and political is writing a reaction to it yesterday. talking about the second time in two weeks that he is addressing a racial issue and a decision by

a grand jury. what do you think the president's role in these situations am a is it important , visit ferguson or new york? guest: i do not think he .ecessarily needs to visit the attorney general is the appropriate person in that regard and the attorney general and isited ferguson visiting cleveland today as i understand it. we hope to see him in new york sometime soon. the president indicated this is persisted int has america for far too long and a lot of people in america unfortunately believe it will never change. his promise that it will change and it will be different this time and we will have to translate those words into actions. host: a couple more calls. but here from barbara, missouri. what i want to ask this

representative of our government is, what is going to be done about the existing abuses, the ones regarding michael brown? something has to be done about those existing conditions. it is obvious, the people in the street, as we are, that we have gotten to the point where this federal government must take over the policing that is happening at the state level, which is nothing but a continuation of jim crow laws in the body of the police, that we as a country can believe that darren wilson was so afraid of an unarmed black teenager, and andad guns in an automobile the power of the police force behind him and he was so afraid because he is an -- a policeman, that he has the right to murder people. for: is it appropriate federal takeover of the police department? guest: you're right about. gartner and the force was excessive. one of the things to point out

about darren wilson that i find interesting is that he himself was 6'4", 210 pound. he had a badge, a gun, and entire police force behind him if necessary, and yet he's -- he chose to fire that weapon more than 10 times, striking michael brown. that is why we need the benefit of a trial. i agree with the point that there is an inherent conflict of interest between local prosecutors and the police department am a because prosecutors rely on the pulleys order toevery day in move cases forward through the criminal justice system. a symbiotic relationship. it is hard to then turn around and expect the prosecutors will go after law enforcement officials who engage in the excessive use of police force. that is light in this instance, six members of congress, myself, in august, called for a federal justice department investigation

of the violation of. gartner's civil rights. but we need to look at a state-by-state level on whether we need independent special s to step in whenever law enforcement officers are accused of using excessive force. host: robert, good morning. you're on the air. is an interesting problem because the democratic when, they changed the law a black man was running for mayor. governor, hefor step down so governor cuomo could run. representing black people in new which the democratic state, even the union, would like to answer this question. time, they have

their men circling around part-time jobs. there aren't number of people working consistently. host: we will get a response. thank you. guest: i appreciate the thoughts you expressed. thingdressed the broader as far as the economy. the worst economic collapse, since the great depression in 2008. many financial institutions responsible for that collapse. they have rebounded. ceo constant -- compensation is way up. the middle-class and those aspiring to be part of it are struggling. this is actually one of the issues where congress needs to come together in a bipartisan way to help turn the economy around to ensure all americans can benefit from the recovery. host: hakeem jeffries

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]

>> next, a law enforcement conference look at training methods,, the use of force, and the relationship between law enforcement and the communities hey serve.

the memorial fund and national law enforcement museum hosted this event. corrects ladies and gentlemen, my name is craig floyd and i would like to welcome you to to the new series called conversations on law enforcement. the series focuses on topical law enforcement issues on the minds of many. tonight's conversation is entitled "when police shoot, a dialogue on the use of force." we are proud

heads ofmemorial fund the national law enforcement museum. it formed in 1984. our mission is to tell the story of american law enforcement and make it safer for those who

serve. our vision is to inspire all citizens to value law enforcement. we established a national monument here in washington, d.c., to honor the service and sacrifice of our peace officers. it is located a few blocks from here. names of more than 20,000 officers who have sacrificed their lives in law enforcement service are inscribed on the walls of that monument. now in the midst of building a national law enforcement museum right across the street from the monument. is intended to help our citizens better understand and appreciate the vital role of policing in america. interactive exhibits, the museum will allow visitors to walk in the shoes of a police officer and better understand what they do and how and why they do it. one of the major exhibits

planned for the museum is a use of force judging training simulator that allows the experience of virtual situations that involve life-threatening, just-second situations like sometimes our officers have to make. in recent months, there have been several high-profile events involving they youths -- the use of lethal force by law enforcement professionals. each time, the same questions were asked. was there not another option? why not shoot to wound rather than kill? why were there some and shots fired? tonight, we will pose these questions and others to veteran law enforcement professionals and we will examine the impact of police shooting, especially .ne that ends in death the u.s. department of justice tells us, among the millions of percent to come in contact with

officers, use of force was used in less than 2% of the time. most law enforcement professionals will go through most of their career without ever firing their webcam. but for most emergency watch of firing their the -- use thei weapons. but for most americans watching the news and television. and look at the numbers look at the number of violent offenders confronted by police each year and argue that the figure shows great restraint. that sore mortified many lives are taken each year by trained professionals. number,atter what the every time an officer is compelled to shoot and kill someone, it is a terrible tragedy for all involved.

less lethal weaponry by officers will be discussed as well as community-oriented policing. most of all, we want to have an open-minded conversation that will lead to a stronger public safety partnership between law enforcement officers and the citizens they serve. time, i am very pleased and proud to introduce my new good friend harry johnson, president of the memorial foundation. [applause] >> thank you so much. good evening. what a joy it is for me to stand here this evening as we talk why police shoot. on behalf of the builders of the martin luther king memorial,

where dr. king's stance together with the jefferson memorial and the washington monument, we built the martin luther king memorial so the world would have a place to honor and that is it -- and visit one of our heroes of this great majestic country. to a man ofrial peace, a man of color, and in non-president to be set in a prominent place of the national mall and among the pantheon of great leaders in our country. we built it and not just to recognize the life and legacy of dr. king, but also to accentuate the four major themes of the memorial. justice, hope, democracy, and love. totonight, how proud we are be and partner with craig floyd of the law enforcement museum and target to have a dialogue aout when police shoot and

dialogue on the use of force, and hopefully bring to the forefront those four tenets of the king memorial. justice, the belief that we are all do justice under the laundry got us a color, the belief that we as americans have the competent expectation that we can be better, that we can expect better, and that we can do better for ourselves and for a future. the universal doctrine that we are all god's people and belief, asre love, much as we love those that we have within us. and finally, we understand that ferguson is not an island unto itself, but a reality in every city. but if we apply the four tenets of the memorial, we will make better families, better communities, better cities,

better states, and indeed have a better nation in the world. god bless you and let's speak together tonight. to the podium jeff johnson, a world-renowned author, commentator, and a good friend of the memorial. jeff johnson, it's your show. >> thank you. [applause] the check is in the mail. [laughter] who he was talking about it first. it is an honor and privilege to be here and moderate the discussion. i'm not going to stay at the podium. i will join our panel sitting down. it i do want to frame -- don't think there has ever been i have moderated that needs less framing in lieu of what our country is looking at and many of us have listened on the way over all of the commentary and the reviewing of what is happening in new york even right now.

they grand jury has failed to indict officers in the air garner killing. -- the eric garner killing. linesms that very sharp have been drawn in communities all over the country. whether it is in new york, ferguson or even now in andeland, as city officials public safety officials are determining what the next steps investigations around the shooting of 12-year-old taymar r and isn't a lot -- there often isn't a lot of reasonable conversation. i'm hoping that the conversation we have tonight will not only be reasonable, but a conversation that begins to point at the practices that we are seeing in certain parts of the country, potential solutions, and even the framework of how those of us who are in this room serve as ambassadors for how we move forward in creating more

, practices,licing the mobilization for more effective policy, and greater relationships. aboutt even talking of allowing there a level of engagement, it helps to bring those things about him as a former activist and youth activist, we understand that even though some policy works well sometime, there is an opportunity to see better policy . sometimes that better policy only comes when there is unrest. what does that unrest look like? how does it become effective? and when does it become counterproductive? i hope he can have an honest discussion. i hope you all are involved in that honest discussion. moderator, i hate panels where you wait until the last five minutes to open up the floor to discussion with the audience and then you hurry up

and try to get 35 questions in two minutes and 16 seconds. it never works. my goal is to involve you in the discussion as quickly as we can because i think we have a more robust and true community conversation when that happens. we have a great panel that is with us and i would like to introduce them before i take my seat. to my immediate left is tom stryker. mr. stryker is a principal with stryker, formally the kernel and chief of the cincinnati police department. i was the national youth director when there was a great deal of strife in cincinnati over the killing of a young man and protests ensued. there was a great deal of unrest in the city under colonel stryker's leadership.

he now travels the country as a consultant engaging communities in best practices and how to do effective collaborative policy as well as government accountability. please, a round of applause for tom stryker. [applause] to his left is cedric alexander, .he ceo -- the coo he has a rich history. he was working with the -- as the federal security director with tsa and has worked with the state of new york. please give him a round of applause. [applause] and last but certainly not least is reverend tom watson. minister, that means pastor -- [laughter]

of washington memorial training ministry in new orleans, louisiana. manifestsctivist and the prophetic word. for those of you who don't know what that means, he operates in speaking the words so that we can move and engage in communities. think a legacy of men and women of god who understand that we can't afford to be a political but it is necessary for churches to engage in the communities that they help bring about the change is necessary. please give him a round of applause. [applause] all -- can join you mr. stryker, i would like to start with you. i think there are so many directions we can go into this conversation and the first one, when we start talking about why do police shoot, why do officers shoot, talk a little bit about,

for those in the audience who don't understand, what training do your officers receive and by a large can we assume that officers receive as it relates to the use of force and the discharge of their weapons in particular. trainingare a lot of that goes into this and it is not something that is specific to use of force only. agencies that do it properly actually teach decision-making and that is something that has to be woven through the very thatc of all the training all of their officers receive. so i have to be able to make a decision over whether or not i will approach you based on constitutional grounds, and my here to introduce myself? am i here for unofficial reason, official reason and the context of this stop? is it a stop? to walk away?

these are the things we have to go all the way back before the use of force occurs. we have to teach officers had to make those decisions in context of their position as a police officer, a public official, a person with an enormous authority and power. an amount of authority and power that no one else in the united states has. no one has more than a police officer has, not even the president of the united states. that is a frightening thought on one hand. on the other hand, it is something that we all know we need in this nation to protect the rights and liberties of everyone. this group of people with this anonymous amount of authority and power that have to be able to make decisions from the very beginning of a stop, the context of that stop, all the way through to the point where there is interaction between an officer and a person and if that interaction goes

awry, how does that officer make that decision. it's not just, oh, boy, i get to use police force now. there has to be a decision-making process that unfolds very quickly. one of our hosts, craig floyd in the beginning. this is something that can .appen in a split second and then the decision about what type of force and the actual source that -- actual force that is used. then what is the review process? do we say, ok, is this justified or not justified? we actually go back and look at these situations, take a look at a look at what happened. we have to be able to extract exactly what occurred, what lessons are there, how can we apply those lessons to training to help the decision-making process in the future so we can hopefully alleviate the new for an officer to use force.

that should be the ultimate goal of any police agency. >> let me build on that a little bit. i want to stay with this training thread before we gone on to other parts of the conversation. as someone who has trained people, i understand through a training process i realize that there are certain people i am training that don't necessarily necessary to do what it is i am training them to do. how often do we find in these types of trainings through assessment processes that these people probably have more responsibility than almost anybody in the job that they do but they just don't have the decision-making skills necessary? do we find within police training that there are those who are assessed to say, wait a minute, you don't really possess

the decision-making skills to be in necessary those life-and-death situations, this series situations and as a result you do not make it through the training course, through the academy? is that a litmus test for success in the academy? litmus to remain on the street? if not, should it be? >> let me say this. when we think about police we send a young man or young woman through six months of a police academy, on average, there is a piece of selftraining that requires tactics, firearm tactics if you will. of 30tarted class today men and women who have applied to become police officers, there

are background checks and all of that that goes along with it. so as an extensive background, investigation, prior history, driving, arrests, whatever the case may have to be, it is a pretty extensive background investigation. so we get a person who is not a class of 30 or 40 police officers. and that is probably after we have gone through, believe this or not, probably up to about a thousand applications. i'm sure chief stryker saw this as well. have 40 positions that are open. you have a thousand people to apply. and when the process is over with, you may end up with 30 or 40 candidates for a police academy. so it is a pretty rigorous search of investigative or background process. so you bring these men and women into an academy program and you teach them state law,

constitutional law, self-defense, firemen -- firearms, all of that. somewhere in there, you will probably lose 10% to 20% of that 30 or 40. through attrition, failure at firearms, failure at self-defensive tactics, exams or those that decide this is not for me. you maynd of the day, have 24 or 25 of those candidates, maybe 30 of them to graduate from your academy. then you send them off to a training program with senior officers. process, complete that field training process, then he or she generally in many cities across the country are assigned to go out on patrol. and you have trained them by state standards. by my standards, but by state standards. and those standards are you generally be -- are generally pretty high. throughout the course of their career, i have seen a young man

or woman police officer who, within the first week of the job, made the comment engaged in a firefight. i have seen people do 35 years and never have to draw their weapon. you have training two or three times a year of firearms qualifications in many departments which is not required by may but is required by the state. and they complete firearm training. but the complicated part of all this is that what is very unique, and chief stryker is alluded to this, what is very unique about policing -- you can morning to a call for a cat in a tree or you can and the day using deadly force. most men and women who leave home every day hope more than anything else, and i have in in this more than 30 years, most

folks that i have come in contact with and i have come in contact with thousands in my career, they don't leave home every day to do harm to anyone. but oftentimes, because of the nature of the job itself, the unpredictability of it, you could find yourself engaged in a shooting and eat is that moment in time and in each incident that occurs, they are also different. makes it really complicated because there are so intovariables just that go the time that the moment you pull that trigger. but do we train? yes. but here is the question. actually going forward. my question is this in light of everything that has happened. are we training enough? and are we training young men and women as well, too, to be critical thinkers? the real think that's

key here. because you are going to have to make split-second decisions. before you have to make that's what decision, there are other decisions that can be made. when those opportunities present themselves, and my trained well enough, have i seen enough scenarios, as best as we can provide, opportunities for men and women out there, police officers, if they have to make a decision and those are in-the-moment kind of decisions, can we train them better? i truly believe that we can. >> i think that is a great point. i want to build on something that you said. even if you had all the training in the world, there's still perceptions that officers bring into situations similar to what we all bring into situations. and those perceptions help drive that decision-making. leasedo how are

apartments -- you can only speak to your experience -- how are police departments dealing with the undeniable biases that police officers as people bring into policing? is meant to have to happen, in the recruitment process, i think we are going to recruitingd -- in police officers is a tough job, by the way. thousand applicants, you only get 30 or 40, there is something to be said about that. you train them to a standard. but here is what i know and i have been saying this for some we are going to have to train our men and women in our academies to think differently about the job as well, too. because when you really think about it, this job is really 80% public and 20% everything else. after bad80% running

guys. >> i want to get to that. i want you to stay right there deal with doand police departments currently that we ashe biases individuals have in the office. they don't. >> here's the thing. i just had this conversation today. we all come with biases. you and i do, too, and they may not be around race to the could be around gender. it could be around sexual orientation. it could be around religion. it could be a number of variables. the important thing that we have to do in our training academies that we have not been doing is that we got to bring into those into the scenarios, and even part of the selection process, opportunities for us to begin to confront our biases. unless that is part of the

curriculum or the training, i'm not going to move past that because the scary part is it's not the guy who is consciously .acist or sexist the guy that frightens me is the one who is most unconscious of inand comes out and ask out out in different places. >> they both write me. [laughter] frighten me. write [laughter] you but i figure it is important to make sure that we deal with the fact that those who are overtly racist are equally as scary when in many cases those who are overtly racist are policing communities of people who those isms look like.

chief stryker, can we accept the fact that we do have problems when the decision-making and whether it is excessive force, whether it is processing threats , is affected by those isms and we don't have departments dealing with it. from a policy standpoint, what arestandpoint, the correct ways for us to begin dealing with these biases and not allowing them to be the 800 pound girl in the room that we failed to talk about -- illa in the room that we fail to talk about. >> it has to be foremost in the mind of everybody in the united states that this is something that is intolerable. thatan't have these isms create bias in policing, especially in a position where people hold so much power and authority.

i used to think training and i still believe that training is a big aspect of it, but who does the training and what is the training is the most critical. what about this room here? how many people in this room have to offer training? people bring community to address police officers, be it new recruits or somebody that has 40 years experience in policing, 30 or 40 years experience in policing who can really learn from having a true dialogue with people about that 800-pound gorilla? the trains were going along good, everything seemingly fine, suddenly we have an incident where an officer shoots liedills a young man, about shooting and killing that young man and exactly what occurred. are thing you know, we

headlines on cnn and around the world, here's the city of racism and riots in the city i? -- in the city and why? two days ago, we were fat and happy lazy. nobody wants to talk about that because it's uncomfortable. in of the solutions we found the aftermath of that in our dealings with the community is that the relationships that we had in our community which we thought were very good and very powerful, we came to realize that they were superficial relationships. we didn't have true relationships with the people in our community. this is something we found takes real work, a tremendous amount of effort. you have to have a lot of thick skin, especially if you are in the position that perhaps is in the crosshairs, if you will, the police. you have to be able to hear what people have to say and know and understand that these are not just excuses the people are throwing out there i feel like

the police have a bias against me because of my race, because of my gender, because of my sexual orientation. that's just what you are thinking, just an excuse. the reality is that these are excuses and people really believe -- whether or not it is true, it doesn't matter. there is a perception out there thatexists and something requires constant vigilance, not just by the police agency but more so by the entire community. reaction we have around this country by this single or incident and how powerful that incident is. the actions of one police officer brought the attention of the entire world -- the entire world to our city. the entire world. look at what it has done here and incidents since then. and look at how social media has changed how we address these situations and we have to pay attention to them.

we cannot say right or wrong and walk away from them. we have to address this situations. the world has to change and with it policing has to move in that same direction. >> i appreciate the comments. remember. i grew up in cleveland. atdad lived in cincinnati that time and there was a huge dichotomy. cincinnati police department at that time was an award-winning police department. but certain communities would have said quite the opposite. so i think there is always truth and misperception on both sides. in new orleans, which has had a ton of controversy as it relates to the police department, before and after katrina, as it relates to levels of brutality, of misconduct, so on and so forth,

how have you found effective -- to breach that gap that mr. strecker's talking about -- mr. stryker is talking about? and then health community members understand what real policing looks like? how do you help find that balance and have you seen success with that? >> i can't measure any actual success, but i can say that, through our not-for-profit, annually we put on a summit called the summit on the bright of the african-american male. we have taken different approaches to engaging the government, large, political officials, and particularly law enforcement, from the u.s. attorney to every day cops and the like. one of the things we realized is

that new orleans, like many communities, is the tale of two cities where we have those who function well and don't have any issues with police harassment and the like, biases and the like, but then there are those -- i'm a myself who native, but as you say, every day cops go out and wonder if home.ill survive getting as an african american male, i feel that way sometimes. i'm hunted. that is a personal kind of thing. i hope i will not be stopped by police or something silly and end up in another direction. collectively, collaboratively, we have engaged levels of government, mayor's office, city council, state reps, state senators and the lay, even our congressman -- and the like, even our punishment, cedric richmond, and faith leaders, every day grassroots leaders,

and our mantra is to say that ,he connect is going to happen the trust is going to happen between police and community. it must be bottom-up. it cannot be top-down. a canopy the mayor and it cannot be the governor. a cannot be elected officials giving a mandate on how to fix this. so we have done over the years, and i have a report that i don't mind sharing the airport -- sharing with the audience, on how we have brought everyday leaders to hash out and to dialogue together in think tanks that go on for 48 hours so to speak. the point i am making is that it's a matter of connecting those voices that are never heard, the ones that are now protesting and screaming and somewhat cynically and

politically engaged, bring them together to have this kind of dialogue. but the on the dialogue, putting some reasonable, productive though it's together, takeaways that we can work on with police. let me give you one example. about4, new orleans had 400,000 citizens. that was before katrina. but we were called and still get called the murder capital of the world if you will. that is based on the per capita population. in 1994, we had 420 murders on the streets. storefront church where i started out, fortunately i was able to move a little bit beyond that to a church front, but at the storefront level, we were in a neighborhood near a major .ousing development what our church did and our not-for-profit, we did a protest on city hall. it was peaceful. for jobs.

communityn with leaders, with the chief of police, with other elected officials and faith leaders and community leaders, and we were able to throw the police department and the whole city government, bring a police substation right in the neighborhood to begin to build trust between police, between community leaders, between everyday citizens. so my point is that we have engaged the community at the grassroots level to connect to the police department. it is not an easy task but it is one worth doing. on the protests, you have to have some measurable ways that you are going to work through these processes so that you are in it for the long haul. it is easy to protest but you have to have some long and short-term goals to bring connections together between police and community and neighborhoods. >> let me ask you this. any of the three we can answer

this. chief stryker said something interesting. look at what this isolated incident has done around the country. i understood the point that was being made. but i think the folks in ferguson, the folks that are now protesting in new york, those that were on the highway in los angeles and oakland, those in other cities don't view this as an isolated incident at all. >> i know i don't. connected to incident connected to incident connected to incident. what often happens when these discussions takes place is there seems to be a very defensive .ature taken by law enforcement and that defensive nature in some cases because there are legal issues at hand. incident is a specific that will result in an indictment or a non-indictment.

didtimes perceive a larger -- a larger disconnect. when people talk about only 2% of policeman interactions and up in shooting, it still too many. if we know that to be too many and we see time after time after time after time -- i'm sorry this is such a long set up for -- we see police officers not being indicted. we see processes that we find that we don't feel like prosecutors are doing their job. we feel like there are grand jury's that haven't been given the right information. we feel like the system doesn't work for us in certain communities. seen them deal with those realities and conversations? i don't think that communities are prepared to hear lipservice in the name of community

likeionships when it feels police officer seldom get held on about -- get held accountable for shooting brackets. is not just in new orleans. if you google it, we have been notorious. it's never been isolated in my lifetime from choking civilian to shooting. after katrina, for instance, henry glover, he was not only citizenan unarmed trying to survive after the storm, but his body was burned. shot and burned. of the five or so officers -- or r.ybe it is fou i believe they are all free now on appeals. they won officer who shot him is

off on appeals. the officer that burned him is doing 17 years but still going through the appeal. how do you think we feel in the community? here is an unarmed man burned and shot. in orleans, it is never isolated. and again, i believe it can get better. , thentioned training cultural sensitivity that is necessary, and here we have a population that is over 60% african-american. -- the new police chief who is african-american, i believe he is trying hard to mend some of the fences. but it is never isolated in my community. crisisve the biggest coupled with training is one of credible leadership. when that later of the police department and that mayor who and arem can be trusted

transparent, and we are people of feeling. you can feel that you can trust what they are saying. then things begin to get a little bit better. but at points in new orleans, post and pre-katrina, it has never been an isolated incident. so there is no easy answer to this. and i live by a principal -- where there is no competition, there is no resolution. so we have to continue to confront the issues collectively and be on the protesting have that kind of purposeful intervention and prevention of initiatives that can begin to turn some of this around. >> i don't disagree with that at all. i want to clarify something. anpoint was not to say isolated incident that this only happens once in a while. my point is that the issue of distrust, the issue of discord between police agencies in some segments of our communities is

so enormous and has been in place for so long that a singular incident can set something off like this and have worldwide effects. this tells me this is at a critical point in the history of america. there are no two ways about it. >> evening -- even calling it a ways,ar incident, in many it creates -- >> i understand that. i am not isolating anything at all. it certainly, who expects it in ferguson, missouri? they would. >> exactly, but would the world expected in ferguson, missouri? enormity of this issue. most people didn't even know there was a ferguson, missouri. who knew where sanford, florida was? i would like to think the people knew were cincinnati was. but one of the questions need to be asked here is are you that

comfortable in your community that you believe this is something that will happen somewhere else and not happen here? if that is the case, you probably don't believe to be in the position of power and authority. you probably need to get out of the way and let some the else in here and realize that this is something that dramatically affects each and every one of us as americans. there are no two ways about it. will continue to be a complicated situation until as a nation we start talking about race. because at the backdrop of all of this, we are talking about race. all of this stems from there. if we look at policing in this country and you put it in a historical context, what we are talking about tonight has been going on since the beginning of policing. and those names of people who have illegally lost their lives to police officers, we have forgotten them. but we remember those who we are talking about today. but there are those before i was

born, before you were born who died at the hands of police, sometimes even more violently, right? so this is a long-standing issue in this country and particularly with communities of color. so when you start something you wholearly on, jeff, the perception these, some of this is perception. some of it is reality. it all depends on where you stand for fair use it in america. but this is for a lot of people reality. history.is this there are these legacies. there are these stories that have been told from generation to generation about policing. so in policing really became more integrated than what it is years ago, we still have these same problems a large cities in this country. issue isof the training, yes, but it's also a

leadership void in a lot of these departments because you really have to set an expectation to the men and women who work for you. you train them well, but you also have expectations. but you cannot predict if you or 1300 people that work for you, like i did, i can't promise anybody that someone is not going to got tonight and do something foolish. hopefully, they won't. but we can't guarantee that. andave to have policies those employees must know what the philosophy of that chief is and what the expectation is when it comes to the treatment of people, all people. think any citizen is looking for police leadership to say that they can promise their officers won't do anything. i think what they are looking for is to know that accountability will come to that officer in the event that something does and that they don't feel like officers will be able to hide behind the blue

before they are forced into a level of accountability. a community called policing and then there is this community in which they serve. what you have over here is a fraternity, an organization called policing were people take care of each other. they go out and confront dangerous things every day. it builds a relationship, a camaraderie like no other. it is like the military. you depend on each other to get home at the end of each shift. but he also have a community over here. if they don't feel connected to you -- you know who i always thought my biggest backup would be when i got in trouble? not when i got on the radio and called for help, but if i saw a getting my but kate, that they would come over and help. they are going to get to me first. if i have a relationship with them, that will happen. what happened in ferguson, missouri, and i know this happened because i sat there with the chief after it occurred

, and from the time of that 9 until i gotgust there, they had never met with the community. >> yes. >> a week later, and when i got chief, i said, look, let's speak with some community members and he wound up some folks. but they had never met with the community. post that shooting, that is evidence of a community and a police department that is totally disconnected. me tell you another significant piece. the day of that shooting, you have to remember that that is a small town of 23,000 people, 55 police officers. that's all. all of those police officers are not on the street. maybe 30 of them are on uniformed patrol. it, i should know

virtually everybody in the community? was able to name the officer was. how many people that we see out on the scene, how long did darren wilson stand there? we all went weeks without knowing his name. and community oriented policing, they would have been like, that was alexander. the tall officer that comes through here all the time. something. they could not relate to who it was. that is a total disconnect, even in a situation -- >> that is not new. how do you see police departments dealing with the fact that it is a whole lot harder to shoot somebody you know? you are able, with that decision

making peace, to have a better sense of who is a threat and you know the people in the community. i have talked to people with community policing programs. one police officer know, this kit is a baby. he might be six feet tall at teen. this kid is 443 inches but he is a killer. -- this kid is 443 but he is a killer. do we understand when we have percentages of officers that live in communities, the officers have a different perception. policing my community versus occupying their community. this is a multifaceted issue. i will say one thing, that you got part of the answer yourself. when a police agency has a

community policing program, that's a problem. are sixgram where there officers? or is a philosophy? woven through the agency. this is how we function. this is how we operate. you are part of that community that you serve. you are not an independent warrior sent in to keep the peace. you are part of the community you serve. you become part of it. that has to be mandated everywhere from the chief through the agency so that when the reverend walks out into an up,e and the police shows he can look at him and say, let me explain what is going on. that becomes part of police culture. also part of your evaluation process. is, as much as what your

score is at the shooting range, what your relationship is with people in the community. there is a dual responsibility. the community being able to engage with their police as well. they don't always have to agree come up what they have to be able to do is be in communication and have contact with each other. something is going to go awry, just by the nature of the job. if they are able to sit down and communicate because they can communicate, that makes it better. >> why does it feel that police looking at 0 -- two options? a zero tolerance or community policing option? it almost seems as if the moment in crime, theke

responses zero tolerance. in many cases, you can't have zero tolerance entity policing at the same time. the is it seemed, from outside looking in, we see political pressure -- why does it seem, from the outside looking in, that we have political pressure to have zero tolerance? an emerging crime rate and he or she needs to get reelected. that is a reality as well. here's another piece we need to be aware of writ when you talk about police living in we haveies or cities, police unions that are very strong and powerful. they push back very strongly on that. it is not just police, often times.

it is also other entities, whether elected officials, unions, etc. one of the most important things that can happen, into striker -- ker spoke to this, is developing a philosophy and that becomes part of the culture. we are going to see change in policing and it is going to happen fast. we are at a place right now, in light of everything that has happened and will happen, there is going to be change. i think the president and attorney general are positioning us for the change. it's going to be pushed back. in different places. we still have to fight at it to read we did not get here overnight.

the most important thing is for us as a community, an entire community -- one thing we know we have to have is public safety. police are not going away. neither our communities. >> i want to open the floor after these questions. none of these are easy. when you talk about getting to that place, there is a slogan thrown around which is, no justice, no peace. more and more, it is seeming to be the case. let me ask this. if we look at the majority of cases over the last 10 years that have involved police shootings, and we understand in many cases there have been few indictments that have come from .ocal judges or state judges

in many cases, when there was an indictment, it ended up being federal investigations that came s made overturned ruling by local justices. are we saying those shootings were justified? or can we acknowledge that in many cases there is a flawed by way of grand jury, in many cases there are incestuous relationships between prosecutors and police, and we have to provide amenities with specialtions including prosecutors as the rule rather than the exception. >> great question to read knows a boy answer. -- great question. no civil answer. we are talking about perception.

the reason people do not by the decision in ferguson, the reason it, is because people do not trust the criminal justice system. not just police. they don't trust the court or judge. they don't even trust their governor. that has been their daily experience in that community. those people have been horribly mistreated by the criminal justice community in ferguson. there is no question about it. i don't need to be biased by it. this is not about black or white. it is about what has been wrongly done in that community. michael brown was just a tipping point. that is all he was. he was the tipping point. it was coming eventually. it happened on his time on this earth.

the problem is, if you remember, louis,eeks later in st. a robber fires three shots at a police officer. the police officer returns fire and kills him. you can getting more justifiable than that. the problem with the outrage of the community was, the police must have thrown down a gun on the ground. not irrationale or illogical. they are smart as anybody else. they support police as much as anybody else. the fact that there was no trust in their whole criminal justice system, that speaks volumes. >> that is not just perception. if we are honest, in the teams i'm span -- same time span, -- >> the one with the knife. >>