departments after ferguson. discusses lockdown .ocked down you can join the conversation on facebook and host: this morning, a discussion on trust and law enforcement. we want to have that conversation with you for three hours. we will put the numbers up right away so we can hear from you. we had set aside our fourth line to hear from police officers as well.

if you cannot get through on the phone lines and want to make a comment, try social media. twitter and facebook. you can make a comment. a lively conversation already taking place. finally, you can send an e-mail. we want to start off by showing you some of the local papers around the country. some of the headlines they are featuring regarding law enforcement. here is the denver post. when do police go too far? here is the atlanta journal-constitution. multiple police cases ignite national debate. in the arizona republic, they have an article about a local case. family says don't focus on race and police killing.

here is the state out of columbia, south carolina. city to hold police more accountable. where body cameras, get more training. press, a nation started to protest. -- stirred to protest. here is the boston globe where protests were held last night with chance of justice. herald, police cases converge to store national debate. -- stir national debate. .he cleveland situation report indicts cleveland police.

from you thisr morning and we will go right to your calls and begin with flushing, new york. independent line. what is your -- caller: i'm a parent of three kids. how are they going to deal with these things? when you hear from the kids is -- if they are wrong, they are right. you cannot raise kids by telling them that you just comply even if you are done wrong. now, ifre telling me the police is going to knock on my apartment at night, i'm not going to open. i will call 911 because i have no trust. ,f you do not trust the police

how are you want to fight big things like terrorists? if you see something, say something. that is the slogan in new york. how am i going to approach the police telling them i'm seeing this or that? , republicanp is tom in woodbridge, virginia. caller: this is a conversation that i have had with family members who are law enforcement, close personal friends. my father-in-law, career law enforcement officers. this is a two-sided problem. the type ofem with person we want to serve and law , compared to the population, people who live in a world of physicality, it's a career choice, they like wearing a badge and carrying a gun.

i served in the military. it's a career choice. something i want to do. you end up in the population with a larger percentage of people who are visceral, physical personalities. on the other side, you have a self-esteem issue. the high crime rate in minority populations and things like that, it's this think thatople who it's ok to commit crime because they cannot really achieve or do anything more. they are being dealt with by law who have families

they have to go home to. host: let's bring this to a conclusion. caller: this is a debate we need to be honest with each other about. this is not a blue on black issue. it is not a racism issue. it is a socioeconomic issue. issuel as a self-respect within the minority population. they come in conflict with law enforcement and then expect a different outcome as a result of us not being honest with ourselves. host: this is bob in new york city. democrat. caller: thank you for c-span. good morning. i was going to ask a question to make a comment, both quick. with the situation that happened , i have notland

really heard many people address -- i don't believe it was the police officer's intention. it was not an intentional murder. it was an accidental death. i believe that accidental death is still criminal. it can be a criminal act. when i see the protesters in the , for sure,eel like there's reasons to protest and i would love to know more, if you have a guest that can address the whole issue of what the criminality is when it comes to such a thing as an accidental death committed by an officer. my last comment is that i do think on staten island, it's a

close-knit group of officers. which really may require some federal investigation. host: we have richard beary coming up. the president of the national association of chief of lease. .- chief of police we will ask him that question. up next is detroit. caller: good morning, fellow patriots. the question should be not do we trust law enforcement, do we trust the system that law enforcement has to work under? it seems to be a problem, getting indictments, because of the close-knit relationship with the prosecutor's office and the police department. ifcan't have a fair hearing people can't stand up on their own merits. that is when the problem is happening.

we cannot have a fair hearing because of the close relationship between the prosecutor's office and the police department. that is where we need to start thinking about the change in the way the system works. i was a storekeeper at a correctional facility when i had to testify against what i saw. when i got to the facility, i got ostracized by some of the officers. some said you did a good job, but when you see something that's wrong -- they said if any hint of impropriety, you could be just as guilty of it if you don't report it. if the law enforcement officer sees something that's going on and they don't report it, they should be just as guilty because they took an oath to protect the public, not themselves. host: we have set aside our

fourth line this morning -- if you are a police officer and you want to talk about this issue, we want to your from you. -- hear from you. couple of callers have brought up this prosecutor-police relationship. in the washington post is this silver. j sterling a hopeless conflict of interest. the lesson to be learned from the refusal of two grand juries to indict police officer's in the depths -- to indict police officers that is in the washington post

this morning. carlos is in big springs, texas. independent line. caller: good morning. my comment is simply, it's a lack of commitment in. -- lack of cumin occasion. i used to be a probation officer. communication. all of the conversation is about

prosecutors and law enforcement, -- theyidea is nobody are listening to music and stuff like that and when they encounter each other, you have or some kind of communication going on. , therd last night moderator made a good comment where he said you have to bring the youth to the table because there is a disconnect and it has to be a community of police and youth communication and they have to address that issue. otherwise, this thing with a no tolerance is going to continue. it is a pattern and it's bad and it needs to be fixed. host: how much training did you get with regard to the rights of

prisoners? 19 is atitle 42 section federal type of law. in 1871 in a court that protects the rights of minority individuals. sometimes, they seem to forget the training for the officers. constitution is obsolete. wait a minute. you still have to protect individuals. when the communication is broken, that's when incidents happen. bad things happen. , if theyno tolerance don't comply you plug your gun and shoot them. that is something wrong and they need to address it. host: harris is in michigan. democrats line.

caller: good morning. brutality andce police profiling, as an african-american man, i have been stopped over half a dozen times just because i look like i'm doing something when i'm just driving home from work. profiling needs to stop. some of these officers are out in the force, they are racists. they need to check that. , youngcan-americans black men, we need to stop running themselves in bad situations when they are contacted. host: is it fair to say that

trust and law enforcement is a racial issue? caller: yes. down thee driving street at 1:00 in the morning getting off my third shift job and he looks at u.n. stops and turns around and gets back to you and pulls you over and asks where you are going, that is police profiling. i'm going home. have a broken a law -- have i broken a law? they say you sort of went over the line. they sometimes put themselves in the wrong position. bill is in pennsylvania. republican line. what is your trust level with law enforcement? caller: zero. that is my trust level with law enforcement. --ant to go through this

when ferguson occurred, my daughter asked me what i thought about it. thoughtded to her, i police officers should wear video cameras. then i saw what happened up there in staten island where there was a video camera running. -- if have to say is this a guy selling cigarettes warrants five police officers, we have too many police officers and too many laws. it does not have to do with visceral personality. visceral personality is a thug. we have too many thugs with badges. if we are paying for too much police coverage and too many laws -- when i was in high school, if you got in a scuffle in high school, you were not arrested.

this and you to the principal. we have too many laws, too many police officers. -- they sent you to the police e principle. they pulled him over because he is driving at 1:00 in the morning. you go over with one wheel over a yellow line and you have to come into contact with a guy carrying a gun. it is a serious situation. too many laws, too many cops, too many thugs. host: james, a police officer in baltimore. caller: good morning. host: have you been listening to this conversation? caller: i have. i have been perplexed about what's going on. the situation in staten island is clearly a case of over policing. to enforce laws such as selling

loses cigarettes on city streets and having five police officers come in contact with you over that -- in new york city, they have a citation they can write out to a citizen if they have a minor infraction of the law. they could have written this many ticket. that he wasxpressed known to the police. they knew who he was. why not just write the manna to a ticket? we think the intent was not to choke mr. garner. used werehe tactics solely in excess. he did not resist that much. he did not put his hands behind his back or comply, but he was

not physically going after those officers and that was a large man. they are thugs. host: have you ever been in a situation where you feared for your life or used your gun? caller: no. i generally avoid those situations by knowing my community and knowing that he bless her. serve.ing the people i name, pulledim by him to the side and got compliance by talking to him had they developed a relationship first. you have to cultivate relationships between the community and the police. you cannot show up as an occupying force and expect to get compliance. host: we had a caller earlier who said he got to love her he was black and driving late at night. over because he

was black and driving late at night. over atve i been pulled night? yes. when the credentials come out and they realize i'm a police officer, they are holding me to changes. i get some better treatment from some, simply because they are at ease now because they don't look at me as a potential threat. -- there are gauge some situations where i question the legitimacy as to why i been --pped in the first place i'm not driving with a busted telik. -- austin taillight. -- busted taillight. host: thank you, sir. patrice in orange, new jersey. independent line.

caller: hello. say, due to the fact that -- i'm in new jersey right now. i grew up in queens, new york. i would never think that anything could happen -- this gentleman that got took down, it reminded me of the twin towers falling. the twin towers was such an astronomical coming beautiful for so many years,on year just like the man i saw fall to the ground. it looked like a bullying situation, which is what i see so much with these people. that is something that represents -- when you sit down

and you make these laws, which are made every two months, we -- what welly have really need on the streets. we don't live on the streets, but we walked down the street. tos is our territory we have populate. it's like a residual effect. when we see people getting dragged to the ground, that's what the kids are doing at school. it's a repeat, repeat, repeat. host: a couple of tweets. --s is mylan jan says --

richard is in brooklyn. caller: good morning. much of what i was planning on staying has already been said. i agree that these police were acting like a group of thugs in afghanistan. one ofere two things -- the things is that i am surprised that only one of the officers was selected for evaluation by the grand jury. these people were acting like a group of thugs. was some things in terms of driving in neighborhoods late at night. very few people are aware that was busted for

narcotics because he was driving while white in the wrong neighborhood. those are my comments. host: politico this morning. loretta lynch's new burden. managing a volatile civil rights investigation. it goes on to talk about her experience in brooklyn. she is heading up the garner probe in her capacity as he was attorney since her district encompasses staten island. attorney since her statent encompasses lo

island. james calling in from new york city. democrat. james? bone.not get james on the -- on the phone. kevin in portland, oregon. independent line. caller: let me commend c-span to your ongoing commitment allowing the citizens to give opinions for and against. this is truly part of the process when issues come up. allowing folks to vent their frustrations. psychological freedom confirms physical freedom. big thanks to c-span. i just want to make two quick statements. i believe that police officers

are heroes. they keep our communities safe and free from tyranny. in context to what i see the that thehand is founding fathers got it right. they had the separation of branches with the election of representatives to oversee and regulate the systems. i have not seen a discussion in reference to the local responsibility of the regulators, the mayor and the city council. misuse of ahe very powerful tool. when the referee goes a pal, who calls the game -- goes of fowl, who calls the game? that is not fair for our cities or states or the united states.

outcry is great for the republic. james madison said it best. only when we are governed by justice can we live throughout the ages. this outcry will push public policy to create regular tree structures that will hold us accountable. -- regulatory structures that will hold as a couple. host: john boehner looked at the unrest. [video clip] >> both of these are serious tragedies we have seen in our society. want toican people understand more of what the facts were. a lot of unanswered questions that americans have and i have. whether it's the department of justice or my colleague earlier today suggesting there may need

to be hearings, i'm not going to rule that in or out. the american people deserve more answers about what really happened here. justice --system of wasn't handled properly? host: our next call is mary from south carolina. democrat. caller: good morning. i trust some and some not. when i was young, we had in the neighborhood and we were always taught to respect our officers, our teachers and so forth. there is a lack of that today. walkingt have officers -- it used to be there was a white cop and a black cop.

they walked the neighborhood's and got to know the people. there was trust with the officers. have two nephews who are policeman and they do have a code where they don't tell on each other. a lot of our black officers don't agree with everything going on. but they are working to make a change. it needs to get back to where the officers stay in the community and get to know the people. it hurts me when i think about the 12-year-old who was killed. i'm still trying to get over that. as blackd because we

americans don't want to see our young people being murdered by police. we don't want to see black on black crime. we are fighting to stop that as well. when i hear people come on and say you are not educating our kids are taking care of your kids, they don't know what we are doing for our kids. we don't say that when you have mass murderers killing kids in schools and stuff. know what our children are going to do some of that we try to guide them in the right way. do, but we try to guide them in the right way. caller: i'm a 74-year-old white woman and i would never trust a cop. it is despicable, what those cops did to that man. if they did not have uniforms on, that would be murder.

i think it is disgusting. how can anybody have trust in cops? they are murderers. host: eric is in cincinnati. good morning. are you with us? last chance. our fourth line this morning is set aside for police officers. we would like to hear from you as well. usa today, their lead editorial this morning. here is their view. case, grandcity jury's decision seems inexplicable. they call for better training for police, better vetting for police, body cameras and independent reviews.

they say please have difficult, dangerous jobs and they should get ample latitude to defend themselves. -- police have difficult, dangerous jobs. the opposing view this morning is patrick lynch, president of the new york city control association. he declined to write an opposing view. this is excerpts from his remarks at a news conference on thursday. that the officer is a resident of this great city and a resident of the borough of staten island.

usa today, patrick lynch. a mere is calling in from georgia. what is your comment? caller: let me say, i am a black man here in america and i do believe most police officers are good cops. unfortunately, we have a small percentage of bad cops. it's not like we are trying to throw all cops under the bus. i agree that we should not resist arrest. i don't think that the situation in staten island should have led to his death. they say he was selling loose cigarettes.

that is a minor offense. that is what i want to say. it should not have led to his death. we have a long way to go in this country as far as race relations. we see the things happening this past summer up to now with police and how they deal with black men. here in cleveland, they shot and killed a 12-year-old boy three seconds after they pulled up to the park. a chancet even given to say anything or do anything. that is what i want to say. in roxborough, north carolina. caller: good morning. thing is as whole we thing because every time have just dislike this or race relations in this country, rodney king got beat up.

everybody said don't believe your lying eyes, he was resisting arrest. it is perception. a bandage on a gunshot wound and say see me next year. that is how it's done in this country. we try to put it behind us. perception. everything is perceived -- i'm a retired truck driver. daily news,tching local news. i would be convinced that black people make up 80% of the crime. when i get on elevators, whites are uncomfortable to see a black man. what happens if you perceive this? all criminal acts against rape, perverted acts,

you grab a kid and that stuff and you do things, those crimes are committed by 80% white. i can turn the tv on and listen to the news and close my eyes and say it's a white guy. i'm going down the street with my kids -- should i question a white guy? you might get raped. you have to perceive things in a different light. jason riley is a member of the wall street journal editorial board. he has a new book out, a recent book. please stop helping us. here's a bit from an op-ed he wrote.

racial profiling in tensions between the police and port like committees are real problems. these are effects rather than causes. or black communities are real problems. linda is in rapid city, south dakota. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a solution to what happened in new york.

police encounter someone who is committing a low-level crime, they ought to have portable booking. to evenne is refusing listen to them, have a portable , allng where you have tape kinds of technology. have them say the gentleman is refusing to submit to this wears resisting arrest. no confrontation, no anything. you have everything right there. pennsylvania. republican line. i support the policeman. i stand by them. they are just doing their job. the media and the racists out there are trying to prosecute them. the media feeds into this because it's news.

we shouldn't celebrate the diversity here. how diverse our country is. we should celebrate it. not point fingers of racism at everybody. this is getting really ridiculous. i don't want to watch the news anymore. host: elizabeth in ohio. democrats line. caller: we are just outside of kent, ohio. here,lice officers around most of them are really nice and work with the community. there is a few bad apples in the mix. i have had a few who have almost run me off the road or hit me in the back.

it is just little harassment thanks. .- little harassment things they need to get to know the citizens of kent, ohio. we can back them up. we see things that go on. they need us to be their friends and they need to be our friends .nd not try to harass i don't know what their point is. kent, youhe guys in can't get into the military withou tattoos. a lot of the cops have tribal sleeves down their arms. my kid can't get a job because he has a tattoo showing but these cops can look like robocop with tattoos. it is kind of scary. they're missing out on a lot of important information they could

use to keep everybody safer. charles cook writing in the national review. want to limit the use of police force? limit the state. ultimately, the state is a synonym for organized violence. ,f you refuse to pay your taxes you will lose.

robert in tampa. good morning to you. work in asically, i big establishment. they host a lot of performers. a lot of shows that go on in that establishment. a lot of them are -- a lot of people. 19,000 people. i am with security. i work with a lot of policemen . i see when they get ejections. if you do not correspond with the ejection, it doesn't matter what color you are. i keep hearing because i'm black , it doesn't matter what color.

if you are white and you respond in a negative way toward us, i -- you want to fight with them. they are human beings, too. it does not matter the color. ma'am,op me, yes sir, no yes ma'am, no sir and i guarantee nine chances out of 10, it works. robert in tampa. sean in mesa city, illinois. thanks for having me. citizensr letting voice their opinions. i agree with the guy who just called, it doesn't matter the color. at the same time, there are police officers out there who

use their badge to do whatever they want. i am a white male and i have been pulled over for numerous things. are a lot of black males and females out there that get pulled over for even stupider things than what i've done. it is about blue pride. to take their badges advantage of things and take advantage of people. to me, that is completely wrong. i believe in some law enforcement, but there are a lot of law enforcement that i don't trust. that is all i have to say about it. host: we will continue this conversation in just a minute as our first guest this morning, richard beary, president of the international association of chiefs of police.

we will be talking with those guests. if you're on the line, stay there because we will continue taking your calls with mr. beary . this weekend on book tv and american history tv, we are featuring the city of waco, texas. we do this all across the country. city and itsother literary history. here is a bit from the mayor. [video clip] >> waco was in the heart of texas, 100 miles south of dallas and 100 miles north of austin. it is an old town. it was built around the cotton

forming -- cotton farming and cattle driving industry. it's home to 30,000 people. it has traditionally been more of a home for younger people that were going elsewhere to work. we have worked hard with her educational partners -- our educational partners. we have an outstanding comedic college technical college -- community college and technical college and baylor university. dr pepper was created at a soda fountain, at a drugstore. the doctor was the father of fiance.ng future he thought if he created the after hernamed it father, he would have a sure way of winning her hand.

it was started here a long time ago and eventually moved its headquarters to dallas. we are the home of the official dr pepper museum. impact on tremendous the creation of the museum because it was the original dr pepper bottling plant. it was the start of the rebirth of our downtown when we helped revitalize the museum. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us is richard beary, president of the international association of chiefs of police. he previously served for many years as a police chief. chief of police for lake mary, florida. started with the police department. is there a disconnect between the public and police today?

guest: it depends on the community. we see some parts of the country that have incredible long-term community relations between law enforcement and the public in some areas that don't. we try to cast it with a broad net. it is difficult. is there room for improvement? absolutely. there are a lot of communities that have those good relationships and need to continue working on this in advance and forge ahead. host: what is one of those communities? why are they successful? some are in pilot programs for community oriented policing services. there are so many large and small community's across the that have been doing a great job with community policing for many years. unfortunately, in this law enforcement world, sometimes one or two major incidents tend to

and everybody thinks that is the way it is across the country. each individual community needs to look at what their goal is from their law enforcement agency and help guide that. host: when you talk about community policing, what does that entail? guest: it's a philosophy that has to be adopted i law enforcement agency and by the government the agency works for. if it does not support the community function, they are not going to have the funding they need to do those jobs. what happened over the last 10 years is we have seen budget .hrinks - law enforcement has gotten into this call to call. when those things happen, here

we are today. the other thing that happens -- a commitment of the city council and county government, whichever type of organization is in place , the first thing that gets cut when budget funds become scarce is training. train, train, train. i absolutely agree. sometimes, the perception is training is fluff money and is the first thing that gets cut. it's a dangerous situation to cut training for law enforcement. host: should cops want to be outside of their cars? guest: in a perfect world, absolutely. andends to get guided steered by scientific studies. there was some studies that showed we could reduce the cost and respond better if we put them in cars.

law enforcement listened and we did that. here we are 40 years later rethinking that position. it costs money. , videotape ofary ner, when you see those videos, what is your visceral reaction? guest: anytime someone loses their life, that is the first thing that jumped out at you. it does not matter how long you have been in this business. it has an effect on you and you don't want to see it. rightare a lot of issues now about videotaping. i support videotaping. 98% of the time, cops do a great job of doing the job they do under difficult circumstances. i support these videos. the challenge with video is it is after-the-fact. we will have a nice record of it.

how about we train in advance and give the skills and tools and equipment they need to keep from getting to that bad situation? there is a balance. we need to focus on providing those things cops need. host: let's get our viewers involved. richard beary is our guest. sean is calling in from lakeland, florida. near your home area. caller: the morning to you. -- good morning to you. is, the system itself, in my opinion, is broken. people have no trust in the system. it's about perception. a caller said people don't perceive things in a certain way.

you have your point of view with how you look at things. the thing nobody looks at is why are people having these interactions with police? police people in the community where everything is good, people have jobs. that is the real problem here. this guy got killed because he was trying to get money. nobody wants to be a criminal. you have an extent of people who love crime or get the thrill. point, everybody involved in these crimes are trying to get money. if these people had jobs or felt like they could go out and work and make $40,000 a year and not have to worry about scratching and grinding to find something to eat, they would not have to go out and sell loose cigarettes to make extra money. host: sean in lakeland, florida. chief beary?

guest: i appreciate those comments. all of the focus tends to be a law enforcement. law enforcement is just one piece of the system. on behalf of the international association of chief of police, we have been asking for many years to do a complete overview of the criminal justice system. there are a lot of other family services and pieces of the system that need to be addressed. economy,t is about the about jobs, about opportunity. the law enforcement officer is the most visible form of government. we tend to be the one to draw the attention. it's a systemwide problem and i agree with those comments. mentioned the perception issue. this summer, a study came out usa today.

think police departments don't do a good job in holding officers accountable 2-1. guest: that is locale to locale. one thing about local government and local law enforcement, that agency works for the community. i have been on several panels and i say this. if you are unhappy with the police service you have, you have a government that hires and fires the chief of police. if you don't like the service they give, get another chief. when you are a local police chief, twice a month, you are up to be hired or fired. if you don't like it, change it. i firmly believe that. host: from brenda in tallahassee. see a sheriffer i

, i stop and say thank you for your service. i appreciate you. everybody should do that. they are feeling so unappreciated right now. i hear a lot of black people saying the problem is there is not enough black cops. there are too many white cops and not enough like cops. not enough black cops. why don't they put the black cops in the black areas and put the white cops in the white areas? try --well, we always your demographics should be representative of your community. that is a lofty goal. people through the hiring process is not as easy as we hope for. hirehought of trying to and recruiting in the

demographics in your location is a goal that every agency should aspire to. we do believe that. thank you for the thank you part. deputy both young sheriffs and it's a difficult time for them. they go out there every day and do their job. they made a choice to come to law-enforcement to make a difference. a thank you every now and then goes a long way. host: is there a disconnect on the racial lines between african-americans and police? guest: in some areas, yes. cast the bigto net, but in some areas, there are. the men and women of law enforcement come in a variety of different colors and shapes engenders. .- and genders

the more we can be representative of archimedes, the better we will be. , the our communities better we will be. part of the challenge is with the negativity towards police, if you were a 21-year-old, whether you want to get into law enforcement -- will you want to get into law enforcement? the public has to help us. help us bring this people in. i'm not sure if i was a 22-year-old college graduate be a police want to officer for $40,000 year with the negativity we get. host: independent line. caller: good morning. the first caller made an important point. we have a terrorism plan here in new york called see something say something. if i see something, i'm not calling the cops so they can

come to the scene and jump out of cars with guns drawn and shoot the first round person they see. see.rst round person they when the judges says can anybody not serve in good conscience, i will stand up and put both hands in the air. don't come here as tourists or bring your tourist dollars here. host: barbara, have you always recents opinion or is it events? she's gone, sorry about that. see something, say something, and don't come because we are a violent nation. also well, it is interesting, i have been in law enforcement 37 years and our changed dramatically over those 37 years which is one reason our association wanted to this commission going 20

years ago. not i started we were responsible for terrorism, now we are terrorism and hazmat and crime experts and mental health expertsment we are supposed to be experts in a lot thingsed a somewhere in there is law enforcement. unfortunately those messages get blurred. but see something, say something does work. issue.a perception but quite frankly back to what we are talking about without the trust an calls we cannot -- and calls we cannot be effective. time for a difficult law enforcement because the challenges we face and we have just es don't meet the staff levels we have. tip city, ohio. democrat. aller: when it comes to prosecuting or investigating jury officers, the grand system doesn't work.

i know prosecutors like it they can control it, but that is the problem. police officers that dealt with that guy, how many their belt?on was there an alternative to choking him? and as far as money for police officers, take all that military , cashent they are getting in and put it in training programs. a couple will look at of those things. the grand jury system when you are in law enforcement you off the bat you don't make the laws, you just enforce them. a different want system those are legislative issues. we deal within the framework that is established for us. i don't know if they had tasers there. i can't answer that question.

usewe certainly endorse the leth -- anyny unanimous non leth onlethal thing we use but sometimes bad things happen with them because of health conditions. astly, the military decision piece, in the meeting with president obama the other day we and 96% of cussion the military equipment that goes to law enforcement has nothing with m-raps and bearcats. supplies em are radio and things that keep them running. but there are positives that ome out of the things we learn from the military and one of my roll out year is trauma kits. we save lives using trauma kits a military issue piece of equipment and we are saving victims, traffic

crash victims. we tend to be leaders in trying and do good things for the community and sometimes unfortunately bad things happen. we will continue to do the jobs we are sworn to do. chief beary, do local police departments need those tanks or the automatic weapons that some police received?s have guest: let's start with the weapons. very the things that i'm familiar with is the threat of active shooters. experience at the university of central florida we had a situation with a shooter campus. at florida state university a couple of weeks ago they had a situation. with the situation in america with gun violence unfortunately the law officers need those weapons to be able to address that threat. imagine what only a community would say if five to eight, 10 -- you pick the number of people died because the

officers didn't have the weapons they needed to stop that situation. then we would be criticized with knowing the equipment you need and it is available how could not have that available. there is a fine line. heavy military equipment, i think that again goes back to local government. if the government entity, if the mayor and city commission think a need they should probably have it. i watched the situation unfold first thing i he noticed is the armor ed vehicle to try to get the hostages out. there is a difference between an vehicle with a weapon and arm armored vehicle that doesn't have a weapon on it to get out same and insert the officers to stop the threat. act. a balancing but i throw it right back to local government. you get what you accept. if you want changes and really the majority of law enforcement the united states is done on

a local level. voice.volved and have a host: you mentioned meeting with serve on the you 21st century policing task force up. president set haughton, hn from louisiana, republican line. in a parish which is a county to most people and the a good point, n the involvement of what i call the ballot box. ferguson it was something like 7% of the blacks voted. vote for.at you i'm glad i live in a parish because unlike a police chief we vote on our sheriff and we have been very fortunate in last 30-some years we have sheriffs.three if they don't do a good job we vote them out. been watching the video

of the incident with the black lucies.ing the he would like to see that from the very, very start. borro because i seriously doubt if all hose police officers showed up exactly at one time and started as i ebody called in understand and officers responded and it seems like here are three officers in there dressed differently than all the rest. is like nds like it walking into the movie in the iddle and i would like to see the video from when the ndividuals on the street violating the law and the police officers didn't write the law, in the e legislature state of new york wrote that law. force, want a police whether municipal or sheriff's department deciding, well, going tot a law we are enforce. i want them to enforce the laws on the books. like the law on the

book i will get involved with my it off the and get books. guest: i think that john is money.n the you get what you get. if you don't get involved in the process, then you are going to have to accept the style of law enforcement that is you. to so, i think those are very accurate. withther interesting thing video we deal with this. limited air time media stations have they will show 15 that is f a situation 20 minutes. as a police chief you have to offset that and explain how those things happen. but it is a communication piece, too, and not being afraid to get on there and put it out there say here is the whole story. host: can you share an experience you had while serving where you had to pull your weapon and felt threatened, et cetera? actually numerous times.

anything from armed robbers, burglars, there are high risk situations every ay that law enforcement responds to. the other thing worth noting when you think of the millions contacts that happen every law enforcement officers and citizens the use of low whether very you consider the entire picture. i think that needs to be pointed out. those cases again that we've seen in the last several months draw the headlines. the vast majority of law nforcement and citizens contacts result in no use of force. host: i'm sure you have hard the phrase driving while black. harris called in from michigan going he would be stopped home from his job at 1:00 or :00 in the morning simply in his view because he was black. something rfplt police officers discuss?

>> as agency heads yes, we do. states it and other is mandatory training we call legal traffic stops because we believe and i certainly believe that there based solely tops on any race, gender or other situations. so, one of the things we see sometimes is people assume they because you become it, because i'm black, i'm young. no, you didn't ave your seat belt on, you are speeding. but racial profiling as far as i'm concerned and most law is ement executives unacceptable. that is plain and simple the way it has to be. host: richard beary is president he interal association of chiefs of police. danielle is on the line. make a commentto

the swaeuituation -- i understd you were saying about the video that other gentleman the clothingard to of the officers. but even if this gentleman was those cigarettes, how to the y are not going tores where they sell the cigarett cigarettes? guest: well, again, i was not there. i don't run the new york city department. unfortunately sometimes law enforcement -- we don't pick the want. we when we get told this is a problem and we need to address obligated to go out this and address it. aain i don't know if that was planned mission or how that went about. ometimes enforcing law is challenging because policy makers decide what our we rities need to be and have a duty and obligation to

respond. a t: chief, this is maybe little out of your bailiwick but e read an editorial earlier this morning that the prosecutors and police are too cozy. it is too that the grand jury system maybe needs to be opened up. those have thoughts on issues? guest: well, about the coziness most prosecutors i dealt with continued to stay at arm's length. a separate world. we send them the cases, they look at the cases and make charging decisions. of them are highly educated, all attorneys. nd what i have seen them to be is very conservative in looking at the facts and making sure hey have a good case before they go forward. that is a generalization. jury system has been around a long time that. will be a state legislature to change.

the question is really do people feel like the system is being and that is the underlying question. that might be the law enforcement, we have a part of that and some of the prosecutors open and put it out there. i think that will help solve some problems. change the to legislature procedure that has to be done through the state legislature. host: tim is a police officer in virginia., chantilly, you are on with richard beary. caller: good morning, chief. you referenced the young fficers not wanting to come on and become a police officer. i continued to disagree with that. the public s that has this perception of how it is because olice officer f the fact that chiefs on down don't hold police officers accountable. i agree that we as law officers do a great

job, the majority of us. may be 1% or 2% that don't get held accountable for that is like the one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. to ar as like it is amazing gets everything kind of amped down when it comes to excessive use of force because a lot of officers are not properly held d and not being accountable. i will be watching the news and cop who shot a baby with a pacifier that he thought was a 1-year-old. that is just things on the news. t is not a black and white iss issue. but the bottom line is these officers some of them should be fired. that is in the blue uniform does not necessarily warrant being in the uniform they don't have the

mentality, the maturity level or the professionalism it takes to a police officer. host: thank you, sir. agree.well, i absolutely in any occupation there are people that do great jobs and some that don't measure up. i agree with the accountability. i absolutely agree that those that don't do the job should be gone. that becomes as a law nforcement executive very challenging with labor unions and court decisions out there. but if you don't measure up you gone and we should hold people accountable. is a member ofry the president's 21st century task force, the c task force is t philadelphia police officer and police officer charles ramsey.

what is your primary goal with -- this task force to the to present president actionable recommendations as to how we can impact and change perception and reality of states.g in the united build stronger relationships, ake a deep dive into our training and policies that need tpofpforth.ce, and so we have 90 days, which is not a lot of time, but i think we can up with some solid recommendations for the resident and it probably is going to require more work partwards because the easy is writing a recommendation and hard part is implementing something. i'm pretty confident we will be to have something on his desk within the time frame he would like to see it. in your several years in philadelphia what is a policy up ge that you have made

there? >> use of deadly force. firing at , automobiles which a lot of banned for years. here in philadelphia we had not done that. put that in place. that is one that comes to mind immediately as it relates to use of force. we also made revisions in our training. something back in 1998 when i was chief in washington, d.c. d.c., working with the u.s. to help museum officers better understand their role in a democratic society. our recruit through that training in philadelphia. philanthropist here who has supported us in that endeavor. a lot towardt does helping police officers better unique role they have in our society. chief ramsey, richard

beary of the international so, the iefs of police is on set with me. i asked him this question. video of what he happened to eric gardner or the tamir rice in cleveland, what is your reaction as a police officer? caller: well, first of all, when gardner video of the situation it is obviously troubling. i don't know all the information presented to the grand jury. they obviously will access to did by watching a clip on television. ertainly it is troubling especially when you consider a in the ly minor offense first place. but the person was resisting. people have tong realize is taking people into custody that do not want to go is not a pretty sight if you see it on tape. know all the

facts and circumstances. cleveland the situation the first thing i thought of is poor tactics up on they pulled right the person, the young man, which traininging that basic would tell you not to do because take ve no time to really cover, to react, to give commands, to do anything when on somebody.t up that was just not a good situation in terms of the started it offat on a very bad footing. chief ramsey, when can we expect to hear an initial report force?e task >> well, 90 days is what the president gave us. to the ill present president within that time frame. then it is up to the white house when they will release anything or if they will release anything publicly. willure they will but that be their decision, not mine. host: you have been a police for a long time.

have you changed your mind, have changed your view on policing over the years? caller: sure. started in 1968 with my career. subpoenince 1968. his whole notion of community policing. nobody talked about that in the 1960's or 1970's. it ce thought they could do all. have a crime problem hire a few more cops. community was viewed as eyes and ears. the three digits 911 when i started. changed a great deal. and both in terms of the personally, nd me coming to have a better understanding, a deeper it means ing of what to be a police officer and that ur responsibility includes protecting the constitutional rights of people. in n't say i thought that 19

1968, but i certainly do now and have for some time. we all evolve, change and grow. host: charles ramsey, chief of police in philadelphia and 21st century e policing task force. respond to want to that you heard? guest: if there is anything that law a lot about enforcement it is chuck ramsey. we are happy to have him as because of his -- c because of his experience. if not for law enforcement d.n.a. would not have come about. law enforcement was the driving force to get it accepted in court. so law enforcement is constantly new and innovative ideas. we need credit now and then for we do to make the system better. host: we will take more calls. edith in warren, arkansas, democrat line.

caller: good morning, mr. beary. good morning. aller: i'm a grandmother of about 20 grandsons and they were all raised in pass don't know into, california. pasadena, california. and me as a mother and grandmother we have always in the community. communi d say to any community, get involved. officers r police there. i'm back in arkansas now. see a lot of things i don't like. i saw a lot of things in pasadena. we had a good police department. chief there who was raised with my children. go to city council meetings. get to know to your police officers, get to know your chief of police and community.r

i was a team football and many, many ther for years. my son is 58 years old. i'm back in mayberry because i was born and raised in here.sas and i love it and they have like a macho attitu attitude. didn't like what i saw lap to the young man because you saw video and all of these people are getting paid by our and in order to see what your dollars are doing involved. get involved with your chief of police and got involved with the community police. you are going to have some bad apples. y sister's son was killed in the 1990's by a choke hold and family very bad. but all in all we need the and i think they

need better training. warren.hey do here in i see that. o, get involved with your schools, know your community, listening to for me. you are doing a good job. up.keep the good work encourage all of our communities to get involved, citizens, we are the taxpayers, we vote. i didn't agree with the man in then the because -- lady that came on and said put hite polices in certain communities and black polices -- no, we need diversity. edith. beary. guest: congratulations on 20 grandchildren. i couldn't imagine the with that.ity god bless you for that. your comments are right on the involved with g your community.

you need to be involved in the community and need to be nvolved with your local government and with law enforcement. one of the other factors that a don't realize is some of the best advocates for a ost of issues, whether mental health, drug situations, are police departments. police departments spend a great deal of time and money bringing cates and resources together to make communities better. exceptionally well when the citizens support that nd become part of it and get involved. the more involved the better and better vices delivery of service when you are part of the solution. chris is in brooklyn. hi, chris. caller: hi, thank you. first i would like to say thank you for nypd for making my safe in my city. i saw the whole video. was a street

hustler. e was selling cigarettes to underaged kids, avoiding the tax. cuomo sent out a special task force. hat is how the encounter started. there is one way that it could that is ifvoided and the 46-year-old man stopped his treet hustle and when the paoeeople police said you are under arrest for the 32nd time arrest.under the main continuing everyone has it remember no one wants eric block. on the if you walk out your door and he s out there and has his crew looking at your car, all of a sudden your place is robbed you whistling at women, there are fights that go on and street dner and his hustling friends are at the center of it. nypd.you, i'm sorry the guy died but he he asthma, he knew it and should have just given up and

said i will go to jail. i said to the police and encourage everyone to watch the video, he said this stops here today. the police to a fight. he is 46 years old. arrested 31 times. a convicted felon. game and he took a street stand with the police and black female surgent there who said take him down. down.s why they took him he was a street hustler, i do not have any sympathy. host: chief beary. guest: well, i think that chris the factuallaid out basis as he knows it. about ain as i talked before, law enforcement doesn't get a choice in a lot of matters. when we were told there is an issue and we want you to address it that is what we do. selling ofust on the untaxed cigarettes. years ago when the death rate on

our highways was through the trafighway ional hoeu traffic said you need to help us fatality and injury rate down and law enforcement responded. the serious crime and violent crime starts happening the citizens come to the elected officials say we want you to go out there rate.op the crime law enforcement does a great job responding. unfortunately sometimes bad lhappen when we respond. but these are -- i think that advice there was good. if an officer tells you you are argue rrest the place to and fight about it is not on the street, it is the courtroom. ooperate and then fight it out in the courtroom and you will have no, generally speaking, it the negative contacts. we have this tweet i wish beer eer -r --beer -eer -r - --

that is a state bistate question. t is a lawful command should abide by it. the keyward being a lawful command. most state statutes elaborate. ost: i think that you kind of said this. do you support body cameras on all policemen? guest: i absolutely do. host: what about the rank and file? view on this? guest: body cameras are great. there are some challenges that nobody wants to talk about and those are the privacy issues. to my house and i want to talk to you about my do my neighbor, something, you really want that information being released? are is also victims that being recorded. so there is a host of issues through.e to be worked the other piece of that is who

will pay for that? florida is a public records state, very open public records. has to handle the requests, go in and try to -- go in and redact information that is private. it's not a simple solution. will it help with transparency? it will. we need to be careful of unintended consequences. sometimes, we jump in on technology really fast, and then we are and what the unintended consequences are. i think they are good. it is not going to change law enforcement overnight. it's not going to happen. host: independent line. you are on with richard beary. caller: good morning. in the aggregate statistic that came from a guest on your program several years ago, he said that every bureau, every

department, and every agents has a pervasive -- every agency has a pervasive and stomach -- systemic superiority complex, and i'm not just talking about the dmv, which we can all relate to. it is beyond a doubt that these people were saying -- those lame, stupid taxpayers couldn't do this task if their life depended on it, so i'm the only one that can get out there and do this. that their attitude. host: who is they? caller: it is basically every bureau in every department in every agency. host: that was a guest on this program who said that? do you remember who it was? caller: i remember you want to host, unfortunately -- you were not the host, on urgently, -- unfortunately, mr. slen. i am hearing the same ego today. host: may be good try in what

was said with regard to the -- maybe you could tie in what was said with regard to the macho factor? line of work, you have some people who do a great job and you have some people who need some help. we tend to be shaped by what we see on tv and in the movies. sometimes, what i've seen, through the 37 years i've been doing this, sometimes, our new recruits think that is the way they are supposed to act, and we have to get that ego check at the door and teach them that, no , you are still a servant -- public servant. 90% of what law enforcement does is service. about 10% is actually enforcement. w and as we train them better, then we see a better product and we see people that that ego tends to get checked at the door.

unfortunately, tv and media does have an effect on our employees. host: just a few minutes left with our guest. mike in georgia. caller: good morning. how are you doing, chief? guest: good morning. soldier in the military till we got injured. we had rules of engagement. when i was in iraq, i was over there with enemy combatants and all this stuff. still, i couldn't take a gun and just shoot one of them and then use as an excuse, i was scared, he might look like he had something. we had to cmj -- had ucmj. we didn't go under the constitution, even though we fought to protect the constitution. i know to the white guy in new york, it is ok to kill somebody because they happen to disagree with being arrested. but what are the rules of engagement for police officers, or are they just allowed to go

out and kill our citizens and all we can do is sit back and listen to the police tell us, hey, look, it's a hard job, we have bad apples? no, you have bad apples with guns, guns that kill people. host: mike, we will get a response. guest: thanks for your service. thanks for going overseas. those are very difficult deployments -- deployments. when it comes to the rules of engagement, there are supreme court decisions that shape that, but, more importantly, state that shoots that guide us -- state statutes that guide us on that. a law enforcement officer who violates the law should be held accountable. i'm not going to argue that point with you, that they shouldn't be held accountable. one of the other interesting things that people don't take is thatount, though,

every police officer-citizen encounter, there is a gun. it may not be the bad guys, but there is a gun there. and what we see in many cases across the country, people try to disarm the officer. there's always concern on behalf of the officer that there is a gun in every confrontation. again, it is training, teaching people the tactics, teaching -escalate thee situation, and i think that gives us a better law enforcement officer at the end of the day. those who violate the law should be held accountable. host: the last call for chief beary comes from gregory in montgomery, alabama. caller: good morning, sir. three very quick points. i'm a military person as well. everyone in the military knows you serve in the military as an extraordinary privilege. i think a lot of police officers need to remember and be reminded that their fellow citizens -- they're fellow citizens

with an extraordinary amount of power they wield. i'm an african-american male. it's difficult for me to hear people totally dismiss an experience and say it is not racist. we should be mindful of that. third and last, there is something on the mentally wrong when you have a law-abiding citizen who is fearful of any -- hing fundamentally wrong when you have a law-abiding citizen who is fearful of any police even when they haven't done something wrong. anybody in our great democracy should be very careful about unchecked power. i just want that -- everyone to know that as we had this conversation. thank you again for your time. guest: again, thank you for your military service. again, it's a huge commitment. the -- i agree. people should not be afraid of the police. and we got to work to regain that trust. it's not going to happen overnight.

and i think that we are making the right steps. i think we are seeing the engagement of law enforcement executives across the country. i think that president obama and his initiatives are going to go there. one point of correction, i'm not a member of the task force. i was there at the white house when they created the task force. we don't know who all the members are going to be yet. that's just a correction. we have to get back to that time where we are not afraid of law enforcement. i also have to tell you, as a parent, when my kids were growing up, i told them about witho handle encounters law enforcement. the law enforcement officer doesn't know who you are, what your background is. some people say we shouldn't have to have that conversation. i think, as a responsible parent, we have to. with people in general, how you deal with people -- our young people tend to do everything electronically. we need to teach them some interaction skills. i do appreciate the comments and, hopefully, we will get that

feeling back, where there is trust and we can all move forward in a positive direction. host: i apologize. i put you on that committee. my mistake. richard beary, president of the international association of chiefs of the lease -- chiefs of police. please come back. guest: thank you for the opportunity. host: coming up next, we will talk to an author. here is her book, "locked down, locked out -- why prison doesn't better weow we can do -- better." we will be right back with maya schenwar.

>> here are some of the programs you will find this weekend on the seas and networks -- on the c-span networks. saturday, live coverage of the memorial service for one -- reformer washington, d.c., mayor -- for former washington, d.c., mayor marion barry. saturday night, university of new hampshire assistant professor jason soquel -- jason sokol. and sunday at noon, our life, three-hour conversation with arthur brooks -- our live, three-hour conversation with arthur brooks. and saturday night at 8:00, lectures in history, martha jones, on female slaves and the law. sunday at 8:00, on the presidency. baker on the fall of the

berlin wall and the liberation of eastern europe. find our complete television schedule at www.c-span.org. (202)-626-3400. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> "washington journal" continues. host: now on your screen is maya schenwar, the editor-in-chief of the new site called -- news site called truthout and the author of this new book, "locked down, locked out -- why prison doesn't work and how we can do better." --s schenwar, who is she is my sister, who has been incarcerated on and off for the past nine years. host: why?

guest: there have been a number of reasons. the overriding element is that she is a drug addict. she has been addicted to heroin and has committed a variety of very small crimes as a result. host: was not tough to write about in your book? -- was that tough to write about in your book? guest: it was horrifying. at the beginning, i thought there must be a way to write the book without my personal story. i woke up in the middle of the night and thought, i have to write, and everything coming out was personal. that goes beyond my sister, actually. i had a number of penpals in prison over the years. my correspondence with them has become friendship. you guys about, their stories come through in the book as well -- because of that, their stories come through in the book as well. host: what has her experience in

prison been like? what has visiting her been like? guest: her experience -- the defining factors have been isolation and separation. it has created a life for her where her main skill set is existing within prison. i think that is the case, especially for a lot of young offenders who go in and become accustomed to juvenile detention , and that's the life they graduate to, and that has been the course for her. in terms of my family, we've also become accustomed to this life of visiting, constantly waiting for a phone call, going into prison, often being treated kind of like prisoners ourselves. every communication we've had with her during the time she has been incarcerated has been monitored and surveilled. that's the way your relationship

lives over the years when you have a family member incarcerated. host: talk about -- you talk about, as a family member, you entreated as a prisoner at times, too. what do you mean? it is very strange. for most people, it is something you've only seen on tv. you've absorbed these pop-culture experiences. going into the prison, there is a very strong sense of anxiety as soon as you walk in the door, knowing that the people inside cannot get out, that human beings are being caged. that sounds dramatic, but that is just straightforward. as a family member, you feel that identification with the person that you love behind bars. beyond that, there are invasive searches. often, you are held in waiting rooms without a bathroom, without access to food.

there are all these procedures that you go through throughout that time of visiting that are similar to people behind bars, including the way that you are able to interact with them. sometimes, you can't even give them a hug. often, you are behind a glass window and can't reach out and touch them. host: in your book, "locked isn, locked out," "prison tearing society apart." guest: the way that i mean that is not really metaphorical. i try in the book to come back to what are the basics that make us human and make us whole and make us able to live together. a lot of what i'm touching on is the family and the way that prison tears families apart and how that extends to the rest of society. and in some cases, this is very concrete.

most of the people being taken out of their families are men --n they are not the prime primary wage earner in their families. there are vast implications for the family. another concrete effect is on children. many of the children are taken out of the context of their family when a family member is incarcerated. they go into that -- into foster care or kinship care with a family member they don't know well. and foster care is actually a major pipeline to prison in and of itself. most of the people in prison have been in the custody of child protective services. it is just perpetuating the cycle. host: we are going to put the numbers up on the screen, divided by political affiliation. you will see those numbers. they are new numbers. i have not quite memorized them.

the fourth line this morning is set aside for those of you who have had experience with our prison systems. you have been a prisoner, you have a family member in prison. you have been a guard in prison. you are an active member of a prison team. go ahead and eileen. we want to hear your stories -- go ahead and dial ini. we want to hear -- go ahead and dial in. we want to hear from you. this is from the sentencing project. you read the stats -- one point 5 million people are currently incarcerated in the million people are currently incarcerated in the u.s., or around that number.

this was in 2012. 1 out of every 108 adults have been incarcerated. 38% black. blacks make up 13% of the total population. you describe yourself as a prison abolitionist. what does that mean? what would you like to see happen? guest: i think it means that everyone calling in is going to yell at me but also -- at me, but also, what it means, in many ways, this system is not working. it's not working for any of us. it is not protecting public safety, which is its stated goal. most people who go to prison are rearrested within three years. so, this is not a correctional system. this is not something where -- go in in and thene

and then are less likely to do the things that put them in there. it's a system where people go in and then come out and have many fewer opportunities to do the things that will help them move forward and change their lives, in terms of jobs, in terms of housing, especially for people of color. i think also the fact that prison is traumatizing and teaches a criminal skill set, in ofy ways, fosters this kind atmosphere within the prison and out thatntality coming it is impossible to -- also, this is the main thing that i talk about in the book. prison breaks down human bonds. and those human bonds are the main motivators for people to change their lives. host: maya schenwar, is kayla

still in prison today? guest: no. fortunately, she is out. for now, we have a happy ending. this last time she was incarcerated, actually, she had a baby behind bars. now she is out, able to be with her daughter. that is a positive thing for everyone. in herid kayla, different times in prison, did she ever deserve to be in prison, in your view? guest: i think that the word me isn't quite useful. it's more a question of whether prison was held for her -- was helpful for her. did prison make it less likely she was going to steal perfume from the drugstore? the answer is no. she went to prison and she learned more skills for committing crimes, where to get drugs. she came out, immediately

started using those drugs again. her stuck in the cycle where she thought the only thing she could do was be in prison, that that was what she could be successful at. in terms of its effect on public safety, its effect on her life and our family, it definitely was a net negative. host: how many prisons -- what should prison be used for, if at all, in your view? guest: in my view, eventually society is going to move toward an alternative that prevents violence and that fosters healing for victims. i think that, in the current situation, the best thing that we can actually think about is how can we prevent violence without using prison to the extent we are using it.

to me, the most hopeful developments are happening in states with really large reductions in crime, like new york and california, over the past 10 years. seen amazing drugs and crime using less prison. their prison rates have gone down substantially. new york has reduced incarceration by 26% over the past 10 years and their crime rates dropped more than the rest of the country. in california, we saw something similar. figuring out ways to diverse people from prison or figure out how we can reinvest the funding that goes into prison into things like early childhood education, housing, things that actually first all people doing some of the things that send them to prison -- actually forestall people doing some of the things that send them to prison. host: what was the reason for

the success in new york and california? guest: it is complicated. in new york, a lot of it was a shift in the judicial culture and policies that moved towards making decisions to not send people to prison, particularly youth. so, they were sent into a tall -- into alternative programs, particularly treatment. i think -- i even have some issues with some of the treatment strategies that are used. a lot of them look like prison. they are locking people up. i think it is almost -- sometimes i look at my perspective and i see it as almost conservative. they are spending so much money continuing to lock people up, except giving them a little bit more treatment. but some of the strategies being used have been very effective in facilitating people turning their lives around, helping them recover, really move toward a

path where they are not committing future crime. ever gotten help for her drug program, and is she sober today? guest: she is sober right now. and this is something people talk about a lot in recovery programs, but, for some reason, it doesn't get talked about when it comes to sentencing or prison. people recover when they want to recover, when they are motivated to recover. people have to choose treatment. and when you put a person in a situation where they feel useless or worthless or feel like they're punished and that's their fate, then they are less likely to choose treatment. what really fostered her recovery was feeling like she had something to live for. in her case, that was her baby. she is on her way out. host: maya schenwar is our guest. let me punch that number so we

can hear from jessica in indiana. you are on the "washington journal." caller: thank you for having me. maya, i want to thank you for writing the book. i want to address what you said earlier in the program about when you have family members that are incarcerated and entering those systems. for someone who has never experienced it, even in a low security facility, it is very the peoplel with that actually work in the prison system. it's hard enough to go visit someone that is incarcerated and see them in that position. my expense has been, in the indiana department of corrections, that you are -- my experience has been, in the indiana department of corrections, you are harassed and treated unfairly upon entering the building. i agree that those procedures need to be changed. in my experience, i've been there and at the -- and done

nothing wrong and felt like i was a prisoner myself. even being one minute late on a cutoff, to drive from two hours away to see my brother, i was treated very poorly upon entering because i was a minute late. then you have to go through a total search process. in my experience, i felt it was very harassing when you got that they'veining got more visitors coming through. it just seems like it is a perpetual cycle. thank you for writing the book. thank you for your time. host: jessica, we will get that response from maya. what do you think of the idea of abolishing prisons? caller: i don't know if i totally agree with abolishing prison. i agree with prison reform, definitely. guard --y the

especially in regards to drug addiction and alcohol addiction. i do not believe our prisons are serving us in that way at all. host: thank you. maya schenwar? guest: i think in regards to the visiting policies, that's a really good point. people drive or fly such long distances to see their family members, and that's a whole problem, in and of itself. that prison placement procedures are often -- you go here, you go here. in said a thinking about, how will this person's -- instead of thinking about, how will this person's family be able to visit, because those ties are crucial for how that person will do when they get out. whole set of considerations that goes into whether families are actually able to see their loved ones. i think it is the majority of children who have parents find are -- parents behind bars

actually unable to visit them due to distance and due to financial implications of that distance. i want to say one things up -- one thing about prison abolition. it sounds very dramatic, because it seems like the idea is, we are going to crumble down the walls tomorrow and set everyone free, whatever that means. everyone's mind jumps to the serial killers. i think that we have to think more about this word as a call to develop something new, a call to shrink the system, to move forward with reducing mandatory minimums, the closing prisons, the amount of money we are pouring into prison budgets on the one hand. on the other hand, thinking about developing alternatives that support victims, that help victims heal and help us get accountability for perpetrators that line up with what victims

need from those perpetrators in order to hold them accountable and help them heal. host: marvin is in fort bragg, north carolina. go ahead with your question or comment. caller: i want to comment on the prison system. [indiscernible] i apologize. you are cutting out. i'm going to put you on hold. don't hang up. we want to hear your story. we will see if we can get a clearer connection. we will talk to you for just a minute to see if we can get a better connection. next, let's put him on hold. new phone system. i apologize. michael in west linn, michigan. are you with us? caller: yeah. good morning. due to like to ask maya,

great medical advancements with withr, with neuroscience, other medical advancements, it is puzzling to me would have made no result -- real, significant change in dealing with addiction. with the, we deal fantasy-based, guilt-based, 12-step program adopted by our judicial system, inflicted upon the addicted with very little chance of a recovery. now, a solution to this problem could be to have a communcal -- society in a remote area of the united states that these people could live in if they choose to do so. maya?

that you'venk definitely hit the nail on the head in terms of the fact that our society deals with addiction in this really backward way that totally focuses on a punitive mindset, on a way of categorizing addiction outside of the public health concern. all of these other diseases are viewed as things that you can h ave options for, that tyou -- you can deal with in ways that are according to your beliefs and your habits and your preference. and addiction is viewed as a crime, absolutely. i think in terms of looking toward solutions, the key part is the last thing that you said, which was, if they choose to do so. i think we really have to look at making our society healthy for people who don't choose to , thinking about

our reduction, thinking about ways of providing health care for addicts, even if they choose not to go into recovery, because we know that the only real way to recover is to choose and also have the resources to do so. and we have to provide all of those things. host: marvin in fort bragg, north carolina, we are listening. caller: yes, sir. i agree with the prison system do not work. when i do time and i get out, i do not have a job. i cannot go nowhere and get a job. it goes back to the dude that was on the street with the cigarettes. you cannot get a job. that's what happens when you can't get a job. the prison system does not work. -- once are in there you get out, you cannot get a

job. you come back, you have to do is legal stuff to live. i can't get a job to take care of my kids. i've got to do something. it don't work. the prison system is just messed up. host: what was your crime that you got convicted of? bought some old junk cars from a lady that they weren't hers. i didn't even sell them. now i can't get a job nowhere. nobody will hire me. it is a lose-lose situation. host: thank you, sir. guest: absolutely. i think you should write a book, because this is -- this is one of the most basic problems with -- system, that you get out 95% of people in prison get out, and when they are released, they have even fewer opportunities

than when they went in. you have, in prison, often, these job-training programs and options for learning skills. you get out and, in many states, you have to say on job applications and educational applications that you are a convicted felon, and even if you don't, there is a hole in your resume, and you have to account you have tod account for the fact that you might not be caught up on technology. there are all of these gaps that you need to reckon with when you are getting out. so often, people fall back into crime that is really survival crime. way inbout making one's a world that has rejected them. i think that any real solution in terms of preventing harm and preventing violence and helping society become safer and more

hole and more healthy -- more whole and more healthy is going to have to think about how can we help people have jobs, contribute to the economy, contributed their families, be able to be active members -- contribute to their families, be able to be active members of society. you've identified the key missing link in the system that is causing it to continually destroy families and communities . host: what is going on in flathead county, montana, that you write about? and why do you make a point of putting it in italics that it is a republican county? guest: so often, people fear this idea of the prison system -- people hear this idea of the prison system isn't working or the prison system is broken. it flips off a switch.

they think you are a blazing lefty or whatever. to me, this is not part of the issue. in many ways, the idea of increasing prison budgets and strengthening families is very .onservative in nature what happen in flathead, montana, is increasingly happening all over the country. this is a county that is a majority republican. they got the juvenile recidivism rate for all of montana -- i think it was 2008 or 2009. flathead county had the worst recidivism rates in the state. they thought, ok, we really have to do something completely differently. what they decided to do was, for all juvenile offenders, they would go through a restorative justice process, as long as the victims agreed to do so, and that meant bringing the victims and the offenders, after some

counseling, together in a circle with community members, with family members, with other people affected by the crime, and each person told their story . this means the victim, saying these are all the ways that what you did affected me and my family, and these are all the harms that you caused and continue to cause with this action that you took by, say, stealing my car or breaking into my house. and the offender has to listen to that, process the implications of their actions. this is something that never happens in prison, by the way. and then the offender talks about, these are the things that led up to me doing this. this is the background of my life story. and also, these are the ways that i'm sorry and some of the things i would like to do to move forward. often, the family members and community members are encouraged

to speak. everyone talks about how they were affected and also what they think might be able to happen moving forward. and this isn't the end of the story. what then happens is unaccountability of agreement, where the victims are able to say, look, -- is an accountability agreement, where the victims are able to say, look, this is what i would like to happen, this is what would help me heal, this is what i think would protect the community and my family in the future. part of that is something the offender might do. also part of that is what the community could do to foster enhanced safety. the agreements they are coming to are specific to the harm that has been caused and to the people who are involved and to the actual support that is necessary for the victim, as opposed to a law that is divorced from those situations and those people. host: have they seen a drop in the recidivism rate? guest: a dramatic drop.

now, recidivism in flathead, , for -- flathead county juveniles, is some of the lowest in the state. this has happened within the space of five years. host: next call for maya schenwar. "locked down, locked out" is the name of the book. bobby. how are you doing? caller: this young lady, she probably has some really good material. i've been in the prison system. from the time i was 19 years old until i was 40 years old. a lot of people don't realize -- if you break down this country and look at what it is, you have a lot of people that can't get jobs, because the simple fact is [indiscernible] people can do background checks. the people are trying to do right by themselves.

these young kids go to prison. some of them try to get out and do the right things. they try to fill out an application. it says are you a convicted felon. we have to put that down there. if i go to mexico or africa or whatever, they don't have those kinds of laws. they don't do background checks. they come over here. for two [indiscernible] apologize to you. the connection is really not very good. we are going to take what you've said and have maya schenwar respond. guest: i didn't hear everything. i think that the question was about background checks and the idea that, when you apply for as a former prisoner, you are dealing with the fact that

anyone can see your record. and i think this is a factor that is really interesting, given all the questions that are being raised about surveillance and privacy. as a person who has a felony record, all of those rights that we think we have are severely diminished. anyone can look you up, see your mug shot, even if they cannot do officiall -- do an background check, they are able to pretty quickly see that you've been incarcerated. when you've been applying for employment, often there is that formal background check, especially in this economy. if you have a choice and you've done that background check and in front10 candidates of you, most employers are going to knock off the candidate

they've done the background check on. this is complete we counter to the idea of redemption or second tonces -- completely counter the idea of redemption or second chances. you've done this one thing. this action defines you for life, even when you done your time or made amends in some way. i think this is something we really have to contend with alongside any sentencing reform or other action that we take on criminal justice, absolutely. host: you are on with maya schenwar, editor-in-chief of tru thout and author of "locked down, locked out. --"locked down, locked out." go ahead and make your comment. sorry. we will move on. you are on the air. caller: hi.

host: i have visited. i should know that. caller: it's beautiful. i think i'm going to stay up here forever. my question has to do with whether we can fix this problem by going with a living wage, right from the very beginning of a person's life, and discouraging the criminal element they get themselves into by not having enough to live on. guest: i love that question. thank you for asking it. i think that one of the things we really need to focus on when we think of this idea of reinvestment, so often, the idea of justice reinvestment means, ok, we reduce prisons and that means we have to increase policing budget. what if we decreased risen budgets and put that money into offering people the money that andncreased prison budgets

put that money into offering people the money they need to survive without the crimes that are getting people incarcerated in the first place? i think that's one of the most positive, long-lasting, effective steps we can take to not only decreasing the prison population, but also increasing the safety and security of society as a whole. host: boring file clerk tweets in -- my guess is he is being sarcastic. "i'm sorry that i burned down your house and killed your pet. please have me and understand. makes perfect sense -- please hug me and understand. makes perfect sense." guest: i think he may not have listened to the first part of the interview. if we -- i think it is the opposite of

what should be advocated. i think the question of what happens when someone burns down your house -- we really need to address that with a lens to what would actually support the victim. for example, while i was writing this book, unfortunately, my computer was stolen and i lost the entire first draft of the book, and it was devastating for me. and i reported it to the police. immediately, and was, like, i hope this person goes to prison, contrary to everything that goes in my book. but after i thought about it a couple of days and the police report i filed didn't go ,nywhere, i thought, you know the money that was invested in whatever happened after i filed a police report or incarcerating people for stealing computers, what if that money went to work buying me a new computer?

what if that money went toward facilitating my healing process or my process of getting back on track with my life? what if that money went to work buying that family a new house and helping them -- went toward buying that family a new house and helping them get back on their feet? what if that money went toward holding the person accountable in a way that would prevent future violence? what if that money went toward supporting that community in keeping an eye out for each other, can -- creating community groups where people support their neighbors and let them know if they saw someone wandering toward their house with, you know, i don't even know what you burned down a house with. but that would be the kind of thing that i would think we would want to think about, a, supporting victims, and b, creating a community culture where that kind of thing is less likely to happen. it's all about prevention and supporting victims.

host: maya schenwar, what did kayla's addiction due to your do to youraddiction family, and in the prison system cause or exacerbate your current relationships? guest: i think addiction is hard on all families. and i think that the way society currently deals with addiction as one of the -- addiction, as out,f the callers pointed is very punitive. it exacerbates anything happening for families. wasthe thing with my family , initially, we didn't really realize that an addiction was at play. we were giving my sister money. enabling her addiction in various ways. it got to the point where we felt very used. we felt like we were always on alert.

anytime she might call us from the hospital, from the street, from the police department. she overdosed several times and we got call from the hospital and thought she was dying. i actually begin my book with a scene in which i get a call from my sister from prison. from jail. she has been arrested and she wants to be bailed out. this is kind of the height of her heroin addiction. i basically hang up the phone. i wanted to be in jail -- i want her to be in jail because i don't see any other option in a society where we deal with addiction this way, and the other option seems to be death. at the time, all i wanted was for her to go to jail and be safe. well, actually, at the time, she was able to get drugs in jail, even doesn't -- didn't help with that.

beyond that, coming out of jail, she felt like she had so few options and so few possibilities for her life going forward that, immediately, she went back to drugs. i learned my lesson, in my naïve hope that incarceration would solve the problem. , florida, please go ahead with your question or comment. caller: yes, i have a comment. the person that was on the prison system -- after such a ridiculous charge of [indiscernible] about this.stion i was a victim myself. i would start with something i didn't commit -- i was charged with something i didn't commit. i was treated badly. [indiscernible] out, it was totally

destroyed. there is no attorney that wants to do my case. i had to hire someone to fight for my charge. i work in schools. you have no idea all i have been going through, and i was only one day in the house. my heart goes out to the people who have to stay in jail and for the victims of crimes. of course, there are people who deserve to be in jail, but i don't know where to go or what to do. i was heartbroken. i'm not the same person. i don't like the law enforcement officials. i don't like what's going on in our country. i don't know what to do. i would like to see the information on where to get the book. i'm a writer myself. that is maria in florida.

any comment for her? guest: i think that maria brings up a really good point, which is that there isn't this dichotomy between victimhood and prisonerhood. most people going into prison have been victims of crimes themselves. actually, the majority of people who commit violent crimes have been victims of violent crimes. it is the largest predictor for whether someone will carry out a violent crime in their life. so, many people -- especially women going into prison, have been victims of sexual and domestic violence. the majority have. i think that is something we need to think about. prison is a traumatizing experience. we are taking people who have already experienced major trauma and subjecting them to more trauma. hurt people hurt people.

so, people coming out of prison, who have experienced even more trauma, are more likely to do harm in the future. in terms of where to get the book, i think probably the easiest thing is just to go online, go on amazon, go on barnes & noble. "locked down, locked out" -- it is right there. host: fort meade, florida, good morning. caller: good morning. great show this morning. all, congratulations on writing this book. i'm a volunteer that goes to the prison and works with people. [indiscernible] is that they are too afraid to [indiscernible]

-- ager have this feeling lot of them have this feeling where [indiscernible] salaries and other situations, then against the them, and this is not a good environment. it is not a good way to rehabilitate somebody. i agree with you. this is one thing i talk about all the time. we need to spend less money in the prison system, more money outside, whether it is treatment, training, and then society put trust in to these human beings once and for

all. host: what kind of volunteer work do you do in the prisons? caller: i go in there as [indiscernible] -- t of times i see people all the time outside. they have nowhere they can learn. it is exactly the same situation they came from. host: thank you, sir. maya schenwar? guest: definitely. one thing you highlighted that is really important is how prison is kind of intrinsically adversarial. there's this prisoner versus rdsrd dichotomy, where gua have this total control over prisoners. often, that's an abusive relationship. there are situations that are able to be used in prison that

aren't on the outside. it's not just that you go to prison and that's a punishment. it's that you can also be punished within that system in very extreme ways. her example, solitary example,nt -- for solitary confinement, which, internationally, again and again is said to be torture. even very powerful officials in the united states have deemed it torture, but it continues to be used regularly by guards as a type of punishment within prison. and yes, coming out of that, it is rough to get back on track or to get on track in the first place. i commend your volunteer work. that's wonderful. host: the last call for maya schenwar comes from tony in brighton, tennessee. you are on the "washington journal." caller: good morning. i would like to ask one thing. i went to prison for a nonviolent crime. i never saw myself as someone

who would go to prison. i was driving on a suspended license. i had a very, located situation at the time -- very complicated situation at the time. i was doing what i could to get by. i get pulled over and i have to go to jail because i have so many violations. i go in. i asked for my parents to bill me out -- to bail me out. i would probably be on the street if it weren't for their financial health. if it were somebody -- their financial help. if it were somebody who didn't have a support system like me -- when i got out, my mom told me - - she had seen my mug shot on the internet. that my picture is on a private website.

there is no information that stupid. how can -- no information that to it -- no information next to it. how can they do that? host: we will get the response to that. what are you doing these days? caller: my financial situation is stable. i'm really worried about what would i do when i have to go back into the job market when i graduate school. i've never had to deal with this before. i'm really concerned. host: let's hear from maya schenwar. guest: absolutely. i think that those mug shot sites are extremely harmful. they are, in some ways, more harmful even then the background checks. anyone can google you and see your picture. and the first thing that comes up in the image search is that

mug shot. and those are often private websites. and the same thing is going on with my sister. i think, occasionally, there are private legal battles. there are lots of things happening on that front on an individual level. i think depending on the website, there are even cases where you or a lawyer can contact the website and ask for your picture to be taken down. i think some people even change their names. barriers toof the coming out and living in an internet-connected world, where you've been subjected to constant surveillance while behind bars, coming out, your private life is still completely public. that's a major barrier to reentry. host: maya schenwar, what's kayla's reaction to this book? guest: she was the third person that i had read the manuscript. when she was reading it, i went

to the movies. i'm so nervous. -- i was so nervous. i thought, well, if she doesn't like it, i'm going to have to throw out the whole thing. she loved it. she wanted her story to be told. she wanted the stories of my penpals to be told. she wanted the system to be put in the context of the family. really, there are so many people in prison, over 2.4 million and therencarcerated, are these other millions and millions of people that never get addressed, and those other family members and the loved ones of people in prison -- those are the family members and the loved ones of people in prison. everyone in prison knows there are these impacts that ripple out to the rest of society, but it is often not something communicated in the media. that is the thing my sister was most pleased with. then god she liked the book -- thank god she liked the

book. host: maya schenwar, editor-in-chief of half hour left in the washington journal. we are going to return what we have been talking about and that is your trust to level in law enforcement. we all know what has been going on around the country. we are going to put the phone numbers up. you can see them there. violin by political affiliation. forfourth line is set aside police officers. in by political affiliation. the fourth line is set aside for police officers. andress has been in session a lot of the members of the congressional black caucus have been holding special orders to talk about what has happened in new york and missouri, etc.

here is a little bit of hank johnson. [video clip] ofthank you, mr. secretary men and boys killed by police. i can't breathe. killers of thehe regular justice, no peace. i can't breathe. -- to rise to police -- militarized police. i can't breathe. driven tohised youth violence as speech. i can't breathe. makes this a great tv. i can't breathe. this cowardly congress afraid of losing our seats. i can't breathe. halfhearted reform when there is more that we need. i can't breathe. just thinking about the despair

that it breeds. i can't breathe. black lives matter, hear my pleas. i can't breathe. i yield back. -- anne compton on her over 40 years and covering the white house. >> we watched him listen to a group of second graders. she whispered to him. i was stunned. interrupts a president, even in front of second graders. the president stood and said that he had to go. andent into a side room then we heard, we discovered that it was two planes down, two plane crashes in new york. were in the parking lot outside the school.

there are live cameras in the cafeteria. the president has to speak there. , heent into the cafeteria said it was an apparent terrorist attack and i must return to washington. we raced to the plane and then the pentagon was hit. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific. "washington journal" continues. 202 is the area code for our numbers. police officers, we want to hear your points of view as well. the lead story this morning in the "new york times."

cleveland police cited for abuse by justice department. the justice department announced that a nearly two-year civil rights investigation has found a pattern of unreasonable and unnecessary use of force that resulted in dangerous and reckless behavior by officers, pointing out the kinds of problems that have angered black residents here in cleveland and touched off demonstrations across the country in recent weeks.

joyce is calling from woodbridge, virginia. your trust in law enforcement. caller: good morning. i have absolutely no trust whatsoever in law enforcement. i am very disappointed with the police and the court system on a whole. this country is supposed to be a christian country and it is totally amazing to see the injustice of the police, the police being militarized. it is absolutely an acceptable. -- unacceptable. the young man, they said he stole something.

know the difference between stealing and robbing? when you rob, it means you go with a gun or some weapon of force. this is supposed to be a christian country. how could you should somebody who does not have a weapon? , they try to use a tranquilizer and animals, but when it comes to a black person, it is deadly force that is used and that is because of hate. there is so much hate in the heart of so many white people in this country, hate for the president, hate for black people , we did not make ourselves black, god made us black. we are made in god's image, that is why we are black. these people that hate us like that, they are not showing godly behavior. host: this is reginald in

houston, texas. caller: good morning. freedom ain't free. we have people in congress who are not speaking out. who are speaking out, but at the same time, they approve the patriot act and things to militarize the law enforcement agencies. then you have militia groups and paramilitary. you have military training the law enforcement agencies. until we come together as a , they talk about the content of the character to hold each other accountable, then america is going to be blessed. she is going to have to repent from ugliness.

let's keep hope alive. hopefully we can have a change of heart. eric holder, the president, and this nation. proactive instead of reactive. host: next is rodney in san leandro, california. caller: good morning. know, i have trust in law enforcement depending on what city you are in. like south carolina, i'm sure you heard about the police chief and the police officers who were fired for not doing their job and for murdering people basically in cold blood. , california, recently, there were two deputy shot and another one wounded, and the police chief came out and said we had an opportunity to kill the suspect who did all

these crimes, but that is not who we are. they arrested the guy and he is going to face the justice system, the way he is supposed to face it. i hate to see president obama spending all of this money for all of this re-creating the justice department throughout the country. it is a waste of money when all they have to do is prosecute the way they are supposed to and let's see what happens. when you kill somebody in cold blood, you should be facing theges and let's see what justice system, what is going to come out of the justice system. let's use the laws that are on the books. otherwise, throw the laws out. host: greg tweets in. from the "new york times."

adams. an op-ed by eric he is the brooklyn bureau .resident

the nightmare experiences of randolph evans and countless other young men have reminded me of my own secret.

again, this is eric adams, brooklyn bureau president, retired new york police department captain, writing in the new york times. indiana. -- butch in caller: let me tell you too quick stories -- two quick stories. a relative was struggling with drug abuse and a dealer moved in next door. he is trying to get away from it, there it is under his nose.

he calls the police and says, they are dealing. they are offering to sell it to me. locatione did read the and then told the dealer that he had reported him. , i know of aory rough individual who got crossways with the law and he was threatening in fairly wide circles of shooting the prosecutor. i had a police acquaintance and i said, can i tell you something and private and see if maybe you can do something about it? i told him the story about the threats against the prosecutor. he promised this would be in confidence. thentell him the tail and

i found out from the prosecutor, who i knew, that the policeman not only was it not in confidence, he had a little microphone on his shoulder that he turned on, so that i am talking to him and it is being reported surreptitiously. >> what is your conclusion? caller: can i trust police? can anybody? host: that is butch. this is william in utica, new york. caller: good morning. would come down to the basic facts. we see so much corruption in the united states. from the top all the way down to the local officers. factublic soaks up the that there is never any real accountability.

andhas blessed this nation has pulled this nation through so much. it seems that our mental status is taking a backward step toward society and toward our character as a nation. i think one of the biggest downfalls is when president obama had stated that we are no longer a christian nation. that just seems to have begun a downward spiral of the nation and it is too bad. we are asking about your trust level in law enforcement, given the several incidences and conversations and protests going on across the country today. john in for junior. -- virginia. honestly have a very

low level of trust with law enforcement in general. they are not all taught on the same level. when they pull you over, they will literally break the law. if you ask them, is what you are doing legal? it is not. they should be held to the same standards that other people should. they should not be given preferential treatment. in all honesty, they ought to have a standard set for all law enforcement to obey the ones that don't have a initiative penalized for it. i don't agree with the fact that these prosecutors and in all of these cases holding the cops to a higher standard i'm not pushing for a conviction. if it was an individual, plus -- they would push as hard as they could for a conviction. they are in bed with law enforcement. have you had

interactions with law enforcement? caller: over the years, yes i have. they have asked, can i search your vehicle? i said, no. i had another one say fine and call canine and they're not be a single thing done. it is the whole fact that they think they can break the law. supposed to be upholding the law. they are not supposed to be breaking the law. host: james, a police officer in delaware. i'm retired. i was a police officer in massachusetts. duty was crowd control and curfew enforcement. regardless of who did what to whom, there is absolutely no reason for riots.

it is breaking everybody's constitutional right. host: do you think the between the public and police officers today is strained? yes, it is strained to some degree. it, in thein hispanic community, in and out youngform, we had a police officer with us who spoke spanish, and that did not work. arrest, younder don't fight. you go peaceably and nothing bad will happen to you. you have the right to an attorney. an attorney will be appointed to you if you cannot afford one.

the rioting is absolutely destructive and there is no need for it. host: fred on the republican line. caller: good morning. i do have full trust in the police department. media tends to cover the bad andes that break the law problem. the chasm is so wide that community policing is not going to work as long as the ethnic breakdown of the police does not follow the ethnic breakdown of the community. ferguson has a 67% black population and yet 95% of the police department is white.

people in ferguson should take allowed toity to live under such a system. black and only 7% voted in the election. they must participate in the political system. they must go to the voting booth, cast to their vote, cast to their ballot, change the system. police managing 67% black township. that is not far off a mini apartheid. people in ferguson should look at the mirror and say, we allowed to live under such a system. this needs to be changed. policing is all good, honest to god, it is all in have cause, but we need to a police department, law enforcement, that follows what the community they are serving. , therehave 80% latino

should be at least 50% latino police officers in the force. fred in san ramon, california. this is melvin in fort lauderdale. i have been with the department for 28 years. i am retired. i worked several units. here is one thing about the whole thing in cleveland. in the one in ferguson and the , the policeork officers violated their own rules and did something they should not have done. ferguson, this radio andgoes on the asks for assistance through the whole situation. he never talks on the police radio or ask for assistance or whatever. the one in new york, the guy was trying to do his job and he put

on an illegal chokehold. the one in new york, i have more compassion. i had to fire an officer for marijuana. he went to a party and it was in his cookie. there was nothing we could do. we had to fire him. this guy would lock up his own grandmother if he had to. it is one of those situations. sometimes you have to get rid of those officers. i feel sorry for the young man in new york, but the one in misery, no. host: do you think the trust level between the police and the public has changed over the years? yes, it has.

since 2000, i think. you have to understand both sides of the story and how they send that works. down and help people tell different stories. officer, i would go to try to intervene and the attitude of talking to people and all of that is going back to this pre-2000 and this 1968 attitude. they have a negative attitude now. since 9/11, officers are andming more aggressive less accommodating to try to listen. they want to handle by force.

that is throwing attitude to have. york.ted in merrick, new caller: good morning. i want to start with a story. when i was younger, i saw "the godfather." i really liked the coats that they wore. i went out and a got a trench coat from the thrift store. a couple of days later i was walking to the library doing my hallmark and a police officer pulled me over and started me asking me where i was going. i told him i was going to the library. he did not believe me. he told me i had a weapon under my coat, ripped my backpack off, shook my stuff out of my backpack, shook my coat. he said, everything is fine here and then he got in his car and drove away. kid,is me, a young wondering why a cop stopped me when i'm going to do my homework. host: since then? caller: since then, i have had

no trust, not in any way, shape, or form. host: did you report the incident? caller: i was a terrified little kid. i had no desire to tell anybody about anything that was going on. host: this is paul in tennessee. i think everybody is to blame. whites, when you have a government like we have now, people are going to do as the government does. , i knowolice part around here if a policeman gets fired in one town, all he has to do is go to another town and they put him to work. they don't check, they don't do anything. most of the time

when they stop a black person, he has a chip on his shoulder and he is belligerent and when a policeman stops me, i treat the policeman with respect and i usually get treated with respect. i have been stopped a lot of times. i'm 72 years old. he may be 30 years old and i still speak to him yes, sir, no, sir. i don't feel i am lowering myself or anything. i was calling him names or said, you're doing it to me because i'm black, people bring it on themselves most of the time. yes, you have a lot of cops that do wrong, but you have a lot of good cops and i hear nobody bragging about them. lucca inxt up is pratt, kansas. caller: good morning. white, i amn, i am

immigrant, i am in the united states for 34 years. i would like to say that i admire the police in all my life until 2006. i am the victim of the most corrupt police on the planet. of 10he victim provocation it accusations. this is not only a matter of police, but police chiefs, attorney general. it is a system problem, it is not the police problem. humane,ce can be very -- the bad apples spoils the host: can you describe what happened to you? caller: this is what happened to me. requested the

investigation of the police chief's. or, they came up with false accusations. from 2006, i am going from trial to trial and justice does not work. justice is a rubber stamp for the prosecutors. pratt,s known in washington. i went to my senator. everybody knows my story. the last word this morning is from charles in wyoming. caller: how are you doing? comment on theo treatment that the cops give to the public. it seems i fair doing a lot of

bullying. it is worse on the highway. with the highway patrol. they pull people over for random stuff and try to see how much stuff they are trying to pile on you and they are always digging for something. my biggest complaint that i have is when a cop gets fired for and with he gets fired for misconduct in one county, he can always jump over to the next state where the next county and he can get a job and then the problem never goes away, it shifts to a different county. i just wanted to point that out. that is probably about the biggest thing that irritates me the most that i want to see changed. host: thank you to everybody. everybody who participated in our conversation this morning. we appreciated and we will be back tomorrow morning. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> the labor department says 321,000 jobs were added to the u.s. economy last month. that is the strongest pace in nearly three years. rate is at a six low, 5.8%. shortly, president obama will announce his choice to be the new secretary of defense at the white house. ashton carter is expected to be nominated by the president. we will have live coverage. the pentagon has just announced

that chuck hagel will not attend. it is a last-minute decision. most members of congress have gone home for the weekend, but nancy pelosi is still here. she will brief reporters this morning. the lame-duck congress has one more week of work schedule before adjourning for the year. foreign-policy experts and journalists will discuss the next challenges and north korea at the wilson center in washington. they will talk about social changes, economic challenges, and reporting pitfalls. >> here are some of the program this weekend on the c-span networks. live coverage of the memorial service for marion barry. and