their duties honorably and committed to respecting their civil rights as they carry out their very challenging work. it is for their sake as well that we must seek to heal the breakdown in trust that we have seen. earlier this week i traveled to , atlanta to begin a series of interactions to begin this process. and officials around the country at every level of the united states department of justice will continue this vital on going work. as the justice department's independent investigations into the deaths of michael brown and eric garner proceed, i will continue these conversations as we seek to restore trust, to rebuild understanding, and to foster cooperation between law enforcement and the communities they serve. i know that substantial numbers of people in new york and across the country will be disappointed and will be frustrated by the outcome of the state grand jury proceedings today.

i know many will plan to voice their disappointment publicly. through protest. this is the right. this is the right of all americans. but as i have said before, throughout our history, the most successful movements have been those that adhere to the principles of nonviolence. i urge all those inclined to demonstrate tonight and in days ahead to remain peaceful in their demonstrations, and not to engage in activities that deflect our attention from the very serious matters that our nation must confront. thank you. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] , on her over 40 years covering the white house and the administrations of gerald ford through barack obama. listenat and watched him a group of second graders go through their drill.

an interruption of the president, and i was stunned. i wrote down in my reporter's notebook, nobody interrupts a president, even in front of second graders. the president stood and said that he had to go, and he went into a side room. and then we heard, we discovered, that it was two planes down, play crashes in new york. pool, we were now in the parking lot outside the school. stay right here, and the president will come. i said, there are light cameras in the cafeteria. the president has to speak there. he did not want to scare the children, but he did go into the cafeteria. he said, it is an apparent terrorist attack, and i must return to washington. the doorto the plane, slammed, and then the pentagon was hit. >> now, a hearing on the recruitment of foreign fighters

fight isis and other threats posed by the militant group. the homeland security and state departments, before 2 subcommittees. this is a little over two hours. >> the committee will come to order. without objection, all members may have five days to the submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record, subject to the length limitation in the rules. whether it's isis or al nusra or corason, there's -- the influx of foreign fighters far surpasses anything we have even seen in afghanistan. the scale of this mass migration is unprecedented and it results in deadly attacks. more foreign fighters have flocked to syria and iraq to fight for radical islamic groups like isis in the last two years

than fought in iraq in afghanistan in the last 12 years. i have a map, i hope we can put that up on the screens. that show the areas that these fighters have come from. they have come from all over the world. according to estimates, around 15,000 jihadists from over 80 countries have traveled to syria to fight. 2,000 of these fighters are from -- of these killers are from western countries, including the united states and that you. 500 are from the u.k., 700 from france. 400 from germany, and over 100 from america. all of these western passport holders can travel freely in europe and even to the united states once they have finished their tour of duty in syria. none of this is hypothetical. we have seen returning jihadists go on murderous rampages before. in may, a returning french jihadist from syria killed three

people during a shooting spree at a jewish museum in brussels. in october, a wannabe jihadist who wanted to travel to syria killed a canadian soldier. seven were arrested in the last two months, trying to travel to syria to join isis. a senior obama administration official in september said that some americans who have fought with isis in syria have returned to the united states. one known example is the case of eric harun. he fought with our nusra -- al nusra in syria on an rpg team. he flew to dulles international airport where he was taken into custody by the fbi. he was brought up on charges for conspiracy to provide material support to a terrorist organization. pled guilty of lesser charges and was released in september of that same year. harun died of a drug overdose in 2014. he isn't the only american we need to be concerned about. european jihadists are just as

much a threat to u.s. security, as they travel freely to the united states under a visa waiver program. i doubt that u.s. and european intelligence services know who every one of these individuals may be. just as a side note, the dod and the fbi were both invited to be here today to testify at this hearing and they would not come. some say these individuals may slip through the cracks. there is a recruitment program. the network is global sophisticated and effective. isis uses its global network to recruit, fundraise and smuggle fighters into and out of syria. this is much more sophisticated network than anything we know from core al qaeda operatives out of pakistan and afghanistan. the best way to reduce the threat that these foreign fighters pose is to identify how the isis recruitment network works and develop a global strategy to destroy it.

we need to understand what countries these fighters are coming from but also how they're getting into syria, once they leave their home countries. what are the main countries being used by foreign fighters to get into syria? what kind of political pressure are we using on these countries to go after these networks? we're not sure what that is, that's part of the purpose of this hearing today. complicating issues further, there are a number of gulf countries who are either unwilling or unable to crack down on jihadist's trying to get into syria. many of these countries act as a hub of foreign fighters, we need foreign fighters. we need to do more to enlist the cooperation of these countries to tackle the threat, but we can't do this without a comprehensive plan. we also need to combat isis online recruitment networks, social media is crucial to the isis network of recruiting. they have a whole media center

dedicated to producing high-quality propaganda videos, tweets, and the like. this is how their recruitment works. after initial vetting by an isis recruiter, travel logistics are finalized. turkey is the most commonly used route. there are extensive contacts on both sides of the turkey-syria border to bring fighters in and out of syria. so-called religious and physical training begins, followed by testing the foreign fighters with small tasks and after that recruits are given their marching orders to go and fight. they're paid and they're given weapons. this is a well-oiled machine and very organized. isis is only going to get better, more efficient, and more deadly and will turn more attention to attacks on the west in years to come. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses this morning. i will now turn to the ranking member mr. sherman from california for his five-minute opening comments. >> isis is evil and they found ways to convince americans that

they are more evil than other forces in the middle east, but the fact is that the enemies of isis are at least nearly as evil , and i think demonstrably more dangerous to us in the west than is isis. isis not only is impossible without huge american casualties, if possible in the current decade, but begs the question what will flourish in the territory, both the cyber territory, to the ideological territory and the physical territory that isis now occupies. isis's enemies now include the shiite axis of hezbollah, assad, the shiite militias of iraq under iranian guidance, and of course tehran itself. and those enemies also include al qaeda and of course its fully

authorized branch, the al nusra front. there is talk that isis may be able to carry on an operation outside the middle east, compare that to its enemies. in 1983, we saw americans die by the hundreds in beirut. in the 1990's, we saw attacks in south america from hezbollah and iran. and there was the attempt by iran to assassinate the saudi ambassador recently right here in washington, d.c. no one can doubt that the iranians, the syrian government, and hezbollah have the -- have a capacity to get their agents into western countries in the united states. after all, there's an iranian embassy just a couple of hundred miles north of where we sit at the united nations. as to al qaeda, their capacity to carry out attacks in the west

was demonstrated on september 11 and the khorasan group which we on september 22 was syria as a part of an alliance with the al nusra front. so just as important as destroying isis is what would occupy its ideological and physical space. we have to prevent foreign fighters from joining isis, but the turks seem much more focused on what they see as their enemies, assad and many of the kurdish fighters. they have not allowed us to use interlink to attack isis, unless we alter our policy and decide to use our air force against assad. whether we should do that depends in part as to who would take over syria if assad were

destroyed. right now al nusra and isis seem to be first and second in line, perhaps not in that order. in addition, the president does not have the legal authority to than 60 days,ore under the war powers act, on the assad regime. he claims that authority with some support, the authority that is to say to go after isis on the theory that it is a splinter group of al qaeda and in 2001, this congress authorized every effort against al qaeda. we must urge countries to seal borders and to deter their citizens from joining isis and other extremist forces in syria and iraq. we must dispel this notion that the people can go fight and then return and be monitored. if a foreign fighter returns, they must be imprisoned. and u.n. security council

resolution 2178 passed in september requires countries to pass laws as we have for decades, that would put such terrorist operatives in jail. that would do a lot making it clear, especially from european countries, that returning fighters are not going to be monitored, they are going to be imprisoned, is not only consistent with the united nations security resolution but will act to deter foreign fighters. finally, i will be using these hearings to once again urge the state department to hire people for their expertise in islamic theology and law. not because of fatwa issued by the state department would have credibility, but because state department's efforts to persuade legal scholars, islamic legal scholars around the world, consists in going to them and saying, these guys are terrible, you think of the legal authority, you think of the

legal arguments that will allow you to come out against them. no one would go to an american jurist and say my adversary is evil. you, sir, come up with the doctrine. instead, you hire lawyers that know the law and that come to -- and come to plead not only your case, but the legality of your argument. when we get the recognized legal scholars in the islamic world on our side, that would be helpful, but we have not hired a single lawyer and we are going to , courts around the world. i yield back. >> i now recognize the chairman of the subcommittee on the middle east and west africa for her opening statement. >> thank you so much, judge. since the beginning of this congress, our two subcommittees have held hearings to explore the crisis in iraq and the rise

of isil, and we have yet to hear of a comprehensive strategy to address these issues from the administration. for more than three years now, the administration has failed to address the syria crisis head on. and instead has let the country become a safe haven for more and more terrorists who seek to harm the united states and our interests. we on this committee have continued to sound the alarm and have been pleading with the administration to be more proactive in syria, to avoid spillover effects that could destabilize the region. unfortunately, our calls have gone unanswered. even former officials from this same administration have been public about their own criticism over the president's syria strategy or lack thereof. the longer the administration delays and fumbles about, we -- the greater the danger for both u.s. national security interests and those of our allies. we must have a comprehensive

strategy that not only remonths -- removes assad from power but addresses the iran issue and iraq, syria and isis , together. all this does not give me much confidence that officials have a satisfactory plan in place to address the foreign fighters threat. while it is important that we refrain from hyperbolic rhetoric and overreaction when talking about isil and foreign fighters, it is equally important that we not downplay the threat. the cia estimated in september now hasold -- that isil between 21,000 and 31,500 total fighters in syria and iraq, and at least 15,000 of whom are foreign fighters from 80 countries. u.s. intelligence officials have acknowledged the difficulty of

providing an exact number, saying that due to, quotes, the changing dping familiar aches of the battlefield, new recruits and other factor, it is difficult to assess the number of fighters, anend quote. what we do know is that the majority of foreign fighters are from nations in the middle east however there is a significant number, according dhs testimony, that come from other countries including over 100 americans. the reach of this terrorist organization has extended beyond our initial assessment, as we saw the tragic killing of four people at the jewish museum in brussels, or the attack in melbourne, where an 18-year-old stabbed officers at a police station in the hand, body, and head, after offering to help

officials with their investigation. the possibility of homegrown or lone wolf attacks inspired by isil should be of concern to law enforcement officers everywhere. the european union which has been soft on terrorism in the past, must take heed of these examples and heighten their terrorism laws as well as increase their cooperation with us. we must also remember that the process of foreign fighters joining isil and the group's radicalization of westerners are still in the beginning stages. it took years before we saw the results of individuals joining osama bin laden and al qaeda in afghanistan, and the complete threat posed by isil foreign fighters remains to be seen. yes it is true that the problem of foreigners joining a terrorist group is not a new problem. this should not allow us, however, to be complacent. the sheer number of foreign fighters to isil is cause for

alarm, and any attempt to downplay the threat is misguided and dangerous. we must look at all options available to us to prevent fighters from traveling to syria and iraq from returning to the united states and the recruitment in the first place. whether that is tightening travel restrictions on those who try to enter certain countries or go back to the u.s., increasing penalties for providing support to terrorist groups, enhancing cooperation with our allies, especially visa waiver countries that may be attracting these dangerous individuals, are things we have to do. we have to have a realistic debate about the measures necessary to take on foreign fighters, to monitor them here and overseas to arrest and detain them, before and after an attack, all while assuring that our civil liberties are protected. rhetoric that attempts to brand us the threat or will not help.

i look forward, mr. chairman to hearing from our witnesses for what exactly the administration is doing to tackle this problem in both short and long-term as well as to encourage a debate we all need to be having. thank you, sir. >> i now turn to the ranking member of the skub committee in -- subcommittee in the middle east and north africa. mr. ted deutch from florida for , his opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman. the issue of foreign fighters joining isis and other extremist groups in syria and iraq, poses a grave threat to global security and deserves this congress's full attention. i want to thank our esteemed witnesses for their many years of service to this country and for being here today. the rise of isis has been truly unprecedented. isis broke away from al qaeda. it transformed into a well-funded group across iraq and syria. isis has not just focused it's efforts on the battlefield. it's developed a propaganda machine which is spreading its message to nearly every corner of the earth.

isis produces videos, pamphlets, and has generated a disturbing amount of attention via social media. where terrorist organizations have long recruited locally in villages and towns, with twitter and you tube, isis has a direct line across the world, and in a grotesque display of disregard for human life, isis has used brutal beheadings of americans as a propaganda tool. weather entice by the idea of an toamic caliphate, claiming be agitated by the west, or simply looking for steady income, young men and women from the middle east, north africa, europe, and beyond have signed up to join the fight in syria. estimates now put the number of foreign fighters at over 16,000. three years ago, we were first alarmed by reports of fighters coming into syria from other countries in the region, mainly from saudi arabia and north africa. we should be particularly concerned about to the alarming number of fighters coming from north africa. the chaos that followed the revolutions in tunisia and libya have yielded two very different results. seeded with a

democratic transition, struggling at times, but reducing a constitution, elections, and a new government. libya has been overruin by competing militias, unable to form a strong central government or security force. it is on the verge of becoming a failed state. however, tunisia's young, mostly uneducated population has struggled with unemployment and tunisia does not have libya's oil resources to keep the country afloat. so despite tunisia's success in transition, the country with the largest number of foreign fighters in syria and iraq is now tunisia. the washington post examined factors contributing to the rise of young tunisian men joining jihadi groups. as the article reported, the moderate islamist led government granted new religious freedoms after a half century of harshly enforced secularism. when the state banned women's veils and almost all signs of

piety and jailed thousands of people suspected of holding islamist believes, unfortunately, that freedom was exploited by extremists, who began recruiting online. the new government has struggled to maintain a balance between security and religious freedom. and i raise the issue of tunisia to highlight the attractation of many youths even what should be considered moderate countries. in addition, north africa's proximity and long-standing ties to europe provide easy travel to the continent, and the porous borders give radicalized manyers returning home opportunities to exploit populations. many are aligning with isis. launchedcell has attacks on egypt and forces in the sinai. shiite populations in saudi arabia have been attacked by isis aligned groups. there are over 500 foreign fighters from lebanon, a country already suffering the effects of the syrian conflict.

our strategy to combat isis cannot just focus on the battlefield. we must counter isis before it grabs hold of youths in tunisia, and in france and even here at home. governments and religious leaders must take initiatives to speak loudly to the muslim world about isis's perverted brand of religion. on its return from a visit to turkey last week, pope francis encouraged muslim leaders to issue global condemnations of terrorism. ogan to president erdg condemn this violence because doing so would help the muslim people. the u.s. and our partners should also encourage trading for imams. the mosques should not be a breeding ground for terrorism. and ambassador, i hope you'll discuss in greeter detail the work of the center for strategic counterterrorism communication. we must continue to utilize our foreign aid to foster programs to counter violent extremism in

schools and among other vulnerable populations. this is a global threat and lawrence -- warrants a global response. we will always remain the face of this coalition -- no country is immune to the threat of terrorism and even as the united states leads over 60 nations in the fight against isis, we will always be the face of his coalition and must remain vigilant about the threat of radicalization or abnormal attacks, similar to the tents in -- attacks in canada within our border. i want to thank all of our witnesses for appearing today. i look forward to a productive discussion on this incredibly challenging effort to counter radicalization, and the flow of fighters in and out of syria, and prevent future attacks to the u.s. and our allies. >> the chair will now recognize other members of the committee for opening statements. mr. wilson. >> on sunday, the fbi and department of homeland security issued warnings to american military personnel within the united states regarding possible threats from isil. sadly, this comes after homeland security secretary jeh johnson incorrectly announced "at present we have no credible

information that isis is planning to attack the homeland of the united states." he said this in new york city before the council on foreign relations. this incorrect statement by secretary johnson proceeded his unconstitutional review of the illegal aliens. as a member of this committee as well as chairman of the armed services subcommittee on military personnel, i'm grateful to promote to promote the well-being of military members home and abroad. national radio talkshow host kim commando in her program -- she is the digital pro. during her digital minute, restated the fbi and dhs mornings of isis threats here in america to military families. i look forward to hearing today on how we can protect american families from the grotesque threat of persons who seek to conduct mass murder of american families in our country. thank you. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from virginia, mr.

connolly, for one minute. >> thank you. i would hope that we guard against facile answers about syria. some of the president's largest critics cannot bring themselves to support his request to retaliate in syria against the use of chemical weapons, and had the president heeded their advice a year and a half ago, two years ago, isis today would be better equipped and better trained, because it drew from the very insurgents the president's critics were urging us to arm and train. there are three questions in today's hearing. why? what motivates these men and women, especially men, to join this barbaric movement? it's a troubling question for the west and for islam itself. secondly, how are they recruited? widely reported accounts of the use of social media, very sophisticated, what is its appeal, do we understand it? finally, what are our options? it seems priority number one is to prevent them from getting too

syria, because once they do, we have a different set of challenges that require a whole different set of answers. i am looking forward to exploring those questions in today's hearing. thank you, mr. chairman. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. cook, for one minute. >> thank you. you know, it is sad commentary what is going on in the world right now. just when you think you have put down one terrorist group, there is another one that arises from the ashes. it is something that, i think, underscores the fact that we must stay ever vigilant, and frankly, we have to have a military that does not have its budget cut to the bone in what is called c1 readiness. you never know what will happen

tomorrow. i have been on this planet a long time. it's probably -- ted, i saw that smirk on your face. probably in my opinion, the , world is probably the most dangerous it has ever been, since you know, i have been involved in these things. i have been in combat. i have been at war. now you strive to go forward and make the world safe, not only for your country, but for your kids and grandchildren. so thank you for having this hearing. i think this is something that we cannot fall asleep on. and as i said earlier, we have to be ever vigilant, we have to find out what is going on. i appreciate our folks joining us to give us an update. thank you, mr. chairman.

>> the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. higgins. >> thank you for holding this hearing. islamic state is a rapid conquest of the territory covered large portions of syria and iraq, is in part, going to the prolific recruitment of foreign fighters who now number an estimated 16,000, half of the islamic state fighting force. consequently, the integral part of the strategy to degrade and destroy isis must be an effective plan to stem the flow of foreign fighters who not only add to the islamic state's fighting strength but to also represent a serious terror threat when they return to their countries of origin. of greatest concern are the roughly 2000 foreign fighters originating in western countries, many of which would not need visas to enter the united states or europe. until it can be properly addressed, the islamic state's proficient use of social media and other mediums to facilitate the recruitment and self radicalization of individuals.

countering these threats will require constant vigilance and enhanced coordination with our allies. i look forward to today's discussion with our witnesses. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois for one minute. >> thank you for holding this hearing, and to our witnesses, thank you for being here. we are bombing isis, that is good. i wish we had started that back in january when there were only a few thousand of them. today we are playing catch-up. i recently got back from iraq, probably two months ago now, a month and a half. when i left in 2009 as a military pilot, the war was one. -- was won. when i went back just a few months ago it was very , devastating to see. i hope that we begin to hear from this administration a strategy for syria. i echo what a lot of people have said. 200,000 dead syrians today, many of which are women and children, by the evil in the leadership of bashar al-assad, who is no protector of christianity. he is an evil, bad person, an incubator of isis.

the reason this rebellion exists, the reason people would even be attracted, is they see isis, some people see them as the best alternative to a side. -- two assad. it is important for us to protect the fsa and allow them to clear isis out of their own country. hopefully we can hear that from this administration. it has been a few years but maybe we can catch something , some good news here soon. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island is -- for his opening statement. >> thank you for holding today's hearing on this important issue. the continuing threat that isil poses to international stability is a concern to the united states and our allies. addressing that threat with a comprehensive and carefully developed and thoughtful strategy must be a top priority of u.s. foreign policy. it is our responsibility to develop a response to isis insurgency in iraq and syria that ensures all of our options and consequences are carefully considered. even as the administration

with ap its response $5.6 billion request to fund the military response in iraq and syria and an operation to equip rebels in syria, isil continues to attract foreign fighters come including from western countries. we must do all we can to stop this flow of foreign fighters into the region. as part of this effort we must examine how and why isil is successfully engaging foreign fighters and how the u.s. can best restrict their access to additional fighting personnel and federal resources. i look forward to hearing of witnesses that we have assembled on these issues. >> are there any other members on the majority side? the chair recognizes the gentlelady from florida, for one minute. >> thank you for being here. i have to confess some uneasiness on what we should be doing with isil. there are two issues loading -- floating around in my mind. i will try to articulate.

based on some things i have read and heard, i want to get your reaction as you go forward. one, to pick up on my colleague who talked about assad and hundreds of thousands of his own people that he slaughtered, and causing such a many thousands of them to flee into other countries such as turkey, destabilizing those countries, and there are some who will say isil is the enemy, the fiercest fighter against assad. one question i have is, how do you balance going after isil, and are you helping -- are we helping assad in that regard? the second issue i have read and heard people say is that our actions, whether it is bombing, airstrikes, or whatever, that we

tend to inflame certain folks . that will cause them -- use our -- cause them to use our actions as a recruitment for isil. i would like your reaction to that. i yield back. >> anyone else? mr. kennedy? >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, ranking members of this committee for holding this hearing. to the witnesses, thank you for coming to testify today, thank you for your service to our country. a number of my colleagues have touched on the issues around trying to limit the number of foreign fighters trying to come into syria and the region. and obviously that is critical. the other aspect is our ability to monitor their movements after they are there and once they return home. this puts an awful lot of pressure on our intelligence agency apparatus to make sure

that we can successfully identify those that have traveled, and once they try to leave, their routes of entry back to europe and potentially back into the united states and canada. i would love to hear your assessment of those capabilities, how confident -- how much confidence we have in our intelligence communities in order to connect those operations if they need additional resources in order to do so, and what roadblocks you may see in terms of making sure that they are right every time. that is something that i hope does not do the cracks. -- and that somebody does not slip through the crack. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois, mr. snyder. one minute. >> thank you. i want to thank the witnesses for joining us today and sharing what is being done on a very serious concern. it seems that there are three challenges we face. one is cutting off the source of these fighters. i would be interested in hearing your take, as was mentioned

earlier, why so many are coming from five countries. five countries represent half the total. morocco, tunisia, turkey, jordan, and saudi arabia. what is being done to interject -- interdict their progress toward syria and iraq, how can we prevent them from going? and then the discussion of how we are making sure they do not come back. with that, i will yield back my time. >> anyone else? i will introduce our witnesses and then give them time for their opening statements. the honorable robert bradtke serves as a partner on engaging -- as a senior advisor for partner engagement on syrian foreign fighters at the department of state. the ambassador has more than 40 years experience in dealing with foreign policy, national security issues, and previously served as our ambassador to croatia. mr. thomas is a visiting secretary for counterterrorism policy at the u.s. department of

homeland security. prior to joining dhs, he spent several years as an international lawyer and private practice before a decade-long tenure at the department of state, where he focused on the middle east. ambassador bradtke, we will start with you. you have five minutes. >> distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today on behalf of the state department at this hearing on isis and the threat from foreign fighters. i would ask that the full text of my statement be included in the record and i will proceed with a summary of my statement. mr. chairman, madam chairman, the state department, along with other agencies in the united states government, is deeply concerned about the threat posed by foreign fighters. they have traveled to syria and iraq to participate in the conflicts there. these fighters, many of whom have joined isil, al nusra front, and other organizations,

are a threat to people across syria and iraq and endanger the stability of the region. they are also a serious threat to the united states and our partners globally. we are concerned that these trained and battle hardened fighters will try to return to their home countries or other countries and carry out attacks. to respond to this threat, the united states has been working closely with our foreign partners for more than two years. this summer, with the growing threat posed by isil, the united states has intensified its response, by building a coalition of more than 60 countries with a goal of degrading and defeating isil. general john allen is being the -- leading a comprehensive strategy across five lines of effort, including military support to our partners, disrupting the flow of foreign fighters, stopping isil financing and funding, addressing humanitarian crises in the region, and exposing isil's true nature. today, i'd like to describe to

you how we are pursuing the foreign fighter line of effort. not only within the context of our isil strategy, but also within the broader framework of the threat posed by other terrorist organizations and groups such as al nusra and the khorasan group. critical to counter this threat is our engagement with our foreign partners. the state department has been leading a whole of government outreach effort with foreign partners, and never being -- an effort that is being carried out at all levels across the united states government, including by our intelligence agencies, the national counterterrorism center, the department of homeland security, the department of justice, the department of treasury, the federal bureau of investigations, our military commands, as well as our embassies overseas. in my capacity as senior advisor for partner engagement on serial -- syria foreign fighters, i have led interagency delegation visits to 17 countries from europe to southeast asia to

address this issue with our partners. we and our partners recognize that we must use all the tools at our disposal and cooperate across a wide range of activities. let me outline for you seven areas where we are engaging with our partners. first is information sharing. to prevent and interdict the travel of foreign fighters, we are working bilaterally to bolster information sharing on known and did -- suspected terrorists, and we have called on our partners to the increased use of multilateral arrangement for sharing information, specifically interpol's foreign fighter fusion cell. second, law enforcement operation. we are using formal and informal mechanisms to help police and law enforcement authorities in our partner countries to bring suspected terrorists to trial. third, capacity building. we have worked closely with a number of partner countries, including tunisia, to help them

strengthen their infrastructure to tackle the foreign fighter threat, including stronger counterterrorism legislation and improved interagency coordination. fourth is stopping the flow of external financing to terrorist organizations. together with the treasury department, we have aggressively raised with our partners, cases where we believe individuals or organizations are raising funds used to support isil or other terrorist groups. in recent months, as isil has gained control of other territory, we are engaging with our partners in the region to cut off the funding that isil derives in the sale of oil and isolated from the international financial system. fifth is counter messaging. we have sought to expose the true nature of isil and other terrorist groups do the work on social media and internet at the center for strategic counterterrorism indications. -- communications. sixth is countering violent extremism. in my meetings with foreign

partners, i have found all of us are looking for ways to keep individuals from being radicalized. we have been sharing our own experience in countering violent extremism programs which are carried out in the united states, and we are working with partners to build their capacity to engage their own communities. seventh and lastly is border aviation security. my colleagues in the department of homeland security will go into this area in greater detail. in parallel with his bilateral engagement, we have also joined with our partners in multilateral forums. in september, president obama presided over a session of the united nations security council that approved united nations security council resolution 2178, a binding resolution that calls upon all countries, among other things, to prevent and suppress the recruiting, organizing, transporting, and equipping of foreign terrorist fighters, and to take action to prevent radicalization to violence. also in september, at a meeting chaired by secretary kerry and

the turkish foreign minister, the global counterterrorism forum adopted the first ever set of international good practices for a more effective response to the terrorist fighter phenomenon. the inaugural plenary of the gctf foreign fighters -- foreign terrorist fighters working group chaired by the netherlands in morocco will take place in marrakesh december 15 and 16. mr. chairman, madam chairman, in a speech to west point, president obama stated, we must shift our counterterrorism policy to "more effectively partner with countries where terrorist networks seek a foothold." as i hope i have indicated in the statement, we are engaging with our partners, using all the tools at our disposal, any effort to do with the threat posed by foreign fighters. a threat, unfortunately, that will be with us for years to come. i stand ready to address some of the issues that members raised during their statements and answer your questions.

thank you. >> the chair recognizes you for your five minute opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman, madam chairman, ranking members. thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the efforts by department of homeland security to protect our nation from terrorists operating out of syria and iraq. i want to address how dhs helps protect the homeland from foreign fighters who are not from syria or iraq but travel there to participate in the conflict and may then seek to attack the united states on the u.s. persons, u.s. interests, or u.s. allies. for today, let me discuss the islamic state of iraq and the levant. i will not give this as a full threat briefing on isil. that would be best done in a classified setting. suffice it to say, at present, dhs is unaware of any specific, credible threat to the u.s. homeland from isil. however, isil has encouraged

supporters to carry out attacks, and such attacks could be conducted without specific direction from isil, with little or no warning. in addition, terrorist groups have shown interest in attacks on u.s.-bound airplanes. terrorists have tried to conceal improvised explosive devices in commercial electronics in areas of the body they think will not be thoroughly searched, and in shoes, cosmetics, or liquids, in order to defeat airport security screening. let me turn to seven specific security measures put in place in response to the terrorist threat from syria and iraq. first, aviation security. in early july, secretary johnson directed a transportation security administration to enhance screening at a number of overseas airports with direct flights to the united states. subsequently, tsa increased the number of additional airports

overseas to use enhanced screening methods. dhs will work with air carriers and foreign airports to adjust screening measures to take account of changes to the threat. second, preclearance. one of secretary johnson's initiatives is to increase the use of preclearance at overseas airports with flights to the united states. preclearance means before a plane takes off, all passengers and their baggage are inspected by customs and border protection officers using their full legal authorities and using enhanced aviation security approved by tsa. we have had preclearance in airports in canada and the caribbean, and we recently expanded it to ireland and the united arab emirates. dhs is working with the aviation industry, airport authorities, and other governments to expand the number of u.s.-bound flights covered by the security benefits that preclearance brings. third, tracking foreign fighters. dhs, along with the fbi, national counterterrorism center, and the u.s.

intelligence community is making greater efforts to track foreign fighters who fought in syria that have come from the united states or who seek to enter the united states from another country. fourth, we are encouraging other governments to collect their own information on foreign fighters. this topic is almost always item number one on dhs's agenda with european governments. we are helped by u.n. security council resolution 1278 which european and other governments to use technology like advanced passenger information, which dhs has used to detect known and previously unknown terrorists, by giving us information on terrorist travel. fifth, enhancing the electronic system for travel authorization, and the visa waiver program. dhs is increasing our ability to track those who enter and leave

syria and may later try to travel to the united states without a state department issued visa under the visa waiver program. on november 3, dhs began requiring additional data elements that will allow cbp to conduct better screening and security vetting of suspected travelers before they board aircraft for the united states. the additional data provides an additional layer of security for the vwp. six, dhs is working to help communities identify homegrown violent extremists. secretary johnson regularly speaks of the challenge posed by the independent act or or lone wolf. in many respects, this is the hardest terrorist threat to detect, and one of concern to dhs. we help detect through community engagement. secretary johnson is personally participate in -- has personally participated in community meetings in chicago, columbus,

minneapolis, and los angeles, that focus on community concerns and building trust and partnership to counter violent extremism. seven, information sharing within the u.s. government. dhs and our interagency partners evaluating threat data and ensure relevant information reaches dhs personnel in the field as well as our state, local, tribal, and territorial partners. dhs with the fbi releases joint intelligence bulletins to provide context and background for them to use. our partners work continually to share information with each other about possible foreign fighters. mr. chairman, not an chairman, since 9/11, dhs and our partners in the intelligence community have vastly improve the nation's ability to attack and disrupt terrorist plots. we asked for your support as we continue to adapt to emerging threats and to improve our ability to keep our nation safe. thank you very much. we are happy to answer any questions. >> thank you.

i will recognize myself or five minutes -- for five minutes for questions. the u.s. is conducting airstrikes. how have those airstrikes affected the flow of foreign fighters into syria? if it has? ambassador? >> perhaps the question that might be better addressed to some of our colleagues in the intelligence community. my sense, looking at the

numbers, is it is hard to say at this point, that -- what the impact is. it is relatively soon after these strikes take place, the numbers that we monitor, that we track, our estimates at best -- are estimates at best. it is early to determine precisely what the impact is. it is obviously something that our intelligence community is looking at. it is possible, in a classified briefing, they can give you their assessment. from my perspective, the numbers, again, can vary for a variety of reasons. sometimes we get better information from our partners and that results in an increase -- >> so we do not know if it is effective or not. >> i would say, if the issue is, effective in reducing the flow of foreign fighters, at this point, i would want to see more evidence before i would come to a conclusion. >> mr. ward, do you have a different answer? >> there is an answer to that question but he to be delivered in a classified setting. >> turkey seems to me, appears to be complicit, to some extent, of allowing foreign fighters to flow through turkey into syria. would you weigh in on your opinion of what the government

of turkey, their position is on foreign fighters going through turkey into syria? ambassador? >> turkey is a very important partner of ours in the region. we share very important common interests with them. we have a shared interest in seeing a political settlement in syria that removes assad, a shared interest in combating the terrorist organizations operating in syria and iraq, shared interest in dealing with the humanitarian crisis, and also in promoting stability in iraq -- >> i understand that but that's not my question. my question is, is the government of turkey complicit in allowing foreign fighters to go to their country and fight for isil? >> i was trying to explain some of the perspective on this problem. the turks have more than one

million refugees from syria inside turkey. the turks have a 900 kilometer border -- >> i have been to one of those syrian camps. >> there are 37 million tourist arrivals in turkey every year. we believe in turkey and we have had extensive dialogue with them on this issue for some time. they are taking steps to deal with the flow of foreign fighters. the turks have added a considerable number of names to their denied entry list. the turks are working with us to cut off the flow of funding that may come from oil sales to the foreign terrorist organizations. >> isn't turkey buying oil from isil which comes from turkey to isil? >> there is significant traffic that we have discussed across the border. the latest information is that the turks are taking steps -- >> are they buying oil from isil?

>> if the turkish government -- if you are saying the turkish government is buying oil, no. if some people are smuggling oil across the border, yes. that is what we are trying to cut off, working with the turks. the other thing that we are working on is sharing information. we are seeing better information sharing with turkey and the

united states and european partners >> so, they are not complicit, that is my question. >> they are not complicit. >> social media, we know -- obviously, recruitment is being done in a very effective manner through social media. there is the argument by some, to not shut down social media because that's how they track terrorist organizations -- what is your opinion? doing more or less or leaving it alone -- all social media, how it is effective in tracking and recruiting terrorists? should we be proactive to shut that network down -- legally, of course? what is your opinion?

>> the issue of freedom of the internet -- freedom of expression on the internet -- is one that goes the on my responsibilities. clearly, we are watching it closely. we have dialogue with the service providers -- in cases where , the posts are being used. this is a complex question -- it is well beyond my responsibilities. fund-raising is something that takes legal action. there are great areas. i think, we also believe, if used shut down one account --

the chance of that popping up somewhere else is quite great. the other tool we use, is counter messaging ourselves. we tried to put out counter messaging on social media, on the internet -- to push back that way. >> mr. ward, i will you put that in writing because we are out of time. >> thank you. let me clarify a statement i made. the state department has thousands of experts in american law. you don't particularly need more. we also have experts in international law. those experts help us persuade. i have been pushing on the state department for the better part of a year to hire an expert in islamic law. the response is -- we hope the islamic state will issue statements that are helpful to us. we will ask them to come up with something on their own. now and then, we will call up a professor of islamic law -- we don't have to hire anyone. would you contact an american jurist and say, my cause is just, please come up with a legal theory to support me in? which you hire whatever free advice you could get from a professor on the phone? or would you hire someone who is an expert in american law to get an american jurist to make a statement that would be helpful to you? it is incredibly important for us to get scholars. it is about time that the state department hired its first islamic legal expert to work full-time on that -- maybe a couple. it is time that somebody was hired in the state department not just because they want to certain school or took an exam. is required to criminalize those who go to syria or iraq who go to fight with the extremists. >> if i may just come it briefly on your first comment on islamic lawyers. >> may i ask the bastard to move --

-- to move the mic closer to him. >> we have -- to engage with these countries on implementing 2178. >> can you provide for the record, which are in compliance -- which are not in compliance and have made no serious promise to us. >> i would be happy to provide a list of countries.

>> their legislative process might be slow, but your office will be fast -- providing a list -- particularly foreign fighters if they have passed laws prohibiting people going to iraq. i assume, taking it from your answer, that we are doing everything that we can to push our friends in europe and the world -- >> that are countries that have already in place -- like we do -- laws that criminalize. >> are there some countries they just sit back and say no, we will just monitor them? >> they are countries that do believe that some of the fighters who come back have been disillusioned by their experience. they believe, those fighters should be monitored and not incarcerated.

>> is that in compliance with the u. s. resolution? >> i'm not a lawyer myself. i would have to take a look at the issue. i do think their different approaches to take toward the fighters. particularly -- >> look, i do not care -- if you are in isis army, you belong in prison. that seems to be what un resolution says. i hope you will add to your chart, those countries who say we will not criminalize our citizens who went isis and join the army. >> it is also -- needing to prove in a court of law this activity.

again, i think our partners use different tools depending on what they know about particular issue. >> chairman recognizes the gentle lady from florida. >> thank you very much. isis reach into the united states has been documented. we know it is savvy and uses social media tools to recruit people to its cause. we have seen pictures here in dc -- people in front of u. s. landmarks, including the white house. following up on what mr. wilson has said in his opening statement. on sunday, dhs and fbi released the bolton urging our service members to scrub the social media accounts. on funding, isil is known to

finance its operations from a variety of operations, including oil, selling of ancient artifacts. what are we doing to target isil funding? what kind of isil collaboration with drug cartels -- is there any evidence of that -- especially in our hemisphere. what are we doing to fight this? in order to defeat isil, we will need full collaboration with our partners -- especially those in the middle east. possible ways to fight the terrorists entity. just yesterday, not only to counter isil threat. to ask, what ways are we working with the nations to fight this radical islam ideology?

is this joint command a signal? >> thank you very much mdm. first, i will do this in reverse order -- on the issue -- of funding that would probably be best asked to the treasury department. dhs plays a small role in not in terms of criminal investigations. >> a specific threat to our servicemen and women -- >> on that one, let me go back to what we said over the weekend. there were statements -- public statements by isil in september to the effect of attacks toward -- we are not aware of a specific threat. we do want to be able to have members of the state and local law enforcement and members of the military community, and .their families take reasonable

precaution to reduce the risk of events taking place. we are very mindful of the techniques -- the use of social media that you described -- and that isil is able to use. >> ambassador, on the issue of our allies, are they fighting back against the islam ideology? do you have any info about whether they're willing to put boots on the ground in syria? >> we have a very close partnership with members in the gulf. there members of this coalition of 60 countries. a number of them are carrying out airstrikes in iraq. we have that kind of assistance from them. we are working closely with them to cut off funding -- in kuwait and qatar. we just passed a new law on private charities, so we will be better at regulating the flow of funding.

sometimes when people donated thinking it was going to a humanitarian cause it went to a terrorist organization. we are also working on the counter messaging front. we have talked about what we are doing. a number of partners in the gulf are interested. again, we have a very close partnership. >> is the graffiti that we have seen in dc and other cities -- are those legitimate? >> that would actually be a question for -- better

addressed by the fbi or domestic law enforcement. >> mr. george for five minutes. >> thank you. can you speak in a little more teeth tell about the efforts that we are taking -- our friends from around the world who are sharing with us -- how do we determine if it will be the successful? >> let me say, as someone who is worked for a long time in the

state department and in the united states government, i find the center for counterterrorism very interesting. putting out a tough messages on the internet, on social media.

it seems the kinds of things that are used include putting on social media the atrocities of al qaeda and isil so people can see the real terror of isil. this is not a way to help other muslims -- isil is killing other muslims. very powerful, very direct messages. some of the numbers -- perhaps over the last 10 or 12 months, they have put out 25 videos. over 1000 anti-isil tweets. there are two possible in fact.

possibly the isil to take down cc sites. obviously, i message is getting out. they want to take action. other countries have been very interested in what we have been doing. a number of countries -- ranging from belgium to france -- to some of our north african partners have come to visit our operations in washington. like a set, we had this conference in kuwait -- are partners in the gulf are looking to see if they can do something similar. the european union is seeing if they can get a counter messaging program going. uk has a counter messaging program. again, this whole area of time

messaging is very active. for my own sense, we cannot be sure if individuals who see something on a website say, that is the true nature isil and i will not go to syria -- but, the fact that we get kids on our site and the site -- >> can you tell us how many hits have been on the site?

>> i would be happy to get the information for the record. >> you said, and the uk has a center. who are we focusing on? clearly, i would imagine that the message will be slightly different targeting an australian audience or belgian audience, from america. >> that is why we think it is important other countries develop the capability. the center is doing this in three languages -- arabic, urdu, and english. the english messaging is a more recent development, but as you say there is a need for other -- for example, french. that's why, we think it is important other countries develop this capability. >> mr. ward, this may be something that you can respond to in your discussions -- if you could respond in writing after -- your testimony to increase preclearance at overseas airports, i would very much like to know what the plan is. what airports are targeted, by

when. >> that is the question we would prefer to not address in an open session. you would appreciate the sensitivity. in a close setting, we can get someone who can give you great deal of information on that. >> i was only following up on the countries identified in your testimony. >> where we have obviously, made it a public matter, is where people see our offices in uniforms. >> the gentleman from south carolina. >> thank you for this joint subcommittee hearing today. this is very important. both of your testimony has been

very enlightening. i am very concerned. the american people need to know -- the present is ignoring the jihadist threat. the news on monday night reported that the biggest air launched in september, isis spokesperson called on muslims in the u. s. and europe to attack members of the military. the direct quote: do not ask for anyone's advice -- killed

the believer, whether he is a civilian or military, because they have the same ruling, both of them are believed to be waging war. another person said in another person said in a message on september 20, what is your current threat assessment of a jihadist or foreign fighters in the u. s. homeland? >> that statement was posted in social media by a foreign participant, obviously the person was not in the home and when he made this message. there obviously a number of things that dhs tries to do to prevent people from becoming radicalized to violence. this is through the community efforts that i adjusted my testimony. in addition, there are other steps that other organizations

-- like the fbi -- due to traffic activity, foreign travel. so, there are a number of measures to address people who might be sympathetic to the radical message. >> the grotesque nature of that statement, along with people carrying statement in english -- this is serious. i am very concerned that the present is focused on other items -- for example, congressional campaigns -- and has been missing the danger. based on the bulletin that was issued by dhs and fbi regarding soldiers online media accounts. >> as i said, there is no specific threat targeting people in a specific place. we do think it is appropriate that people are prudent. social media posting should not describe military operational activity nor should they

describe law enforcement activity or other measures. this is something that we caution people in our own organizations and need our

military to be prudent and what they post on social media. for people who take those reasonable steps, it is always a very difficult for foreign fighters in syria to get to the united states. my department is working to make it even harder for that to happen. what we do is encourage people to exercise reasonable prudence. there is the support that we need from communities in dealing with things that they may notice on a local level, far before anything we would see.

>> how you aware of any steps that the department of defense has taken to alert -- again, service members, military families, veterans -- what threats might be? >> obvious, we have guidance on that. i would leave it to them to talk about their guidance. we does that was important for us to remind people that this is

the time that they should be prudent in their measures in any activity or postings that they may have. the department of defense has a number of procedures and rulings that are in place. obviously, you can get the information from them. >> thank you. the chair organizes the gentleman mr. connolly. >> amb., i was looking at your long and distinguished record of service to our country and state department. allow me, to follow up to mr.

sherman's question. do you speak arabic? >> i do not speak arabic. >> you have any expertise in the arabic world? >> i have traveled with secretary christopher extensively. >> but you were never assigned to the region? >> no.

>> is it not true, that most of the foreign fighters recruited by -- or attracted to isil in syria -- come roughly from a handful of countries -- mostly arab countries. >> many of the foreign fighters come from north africa. >> to the question -- it just seems to me that the state department seems to be promoting leadership from within that has particular focus on this region. i mean that without -- with no disrespect -- sometimes someone can function very well without any expertise. presumably, that is true about you. i do think mr. sherman has a point. longer term, the u. s. have to

get serious about expertise in this region if we're going to address challenges we face. when he asked your question, i did not see a mention of the kurdish community which seems to one of the military allies that we have in the region. why did you not talk about that? >> if you permit me i would like to say a word or two -- >> i have to ask you to move closer to the mic. >> i was asked by senior officials to come back and take this job.

not because of my expertise -- i was asked to take this job because it was believed that in 40 years of working in the state department, i was able to work with the fridays countries. i was able to work with my colleagues who have expertise. i have traveled to morocco, tunisia, kuwait -- i don't think the fact that i do not speak arabic has been a hinge. i've had meetings with islamic leaders in these countries. when i met the leader of the islamic leader, i had a very good meeting with him about steps we can take to put out the word about isil and ice is not being representative of islamic values. i do not feel that discussion we had was not intended in any way. >> i completely agree. that if i said without disrespect. i honor your career. i do think mr. sherman has a point -- this region is a long-term challenge and threat to the u. s. we have to have expertise in the region. >> there is no disagreement. i believe there are really brilliant diplomats who are coming up through the ranks and serving -- >> i repeat, i honor you for your service. now, i beg you to adjust the kurdish question because we're running out of time. >> the reason i did not get more deeply into that is because it is not in my area. is one of the lines of efforts

that general alan is pursuing. i mention the five lines. one of the lines is support our partners on the ground and that applies to the kurds. >> i hope we can talk about what has worked. i'm troubled sometime talking about when they come back to the country, what do we do. sometimes it sounds like the -- deprogramming from a cult. are the things that have worked? if how to integrate them in a good way. >> chairman recommends is the gentleman from california. >> yhank you, mr. chair. ambassador, i wanted to ask you about the role of hamas and the muslim brotherhood in terms of perhaps facilitating the information on recruitment, and some of the smuggling activities -- if you have any insight at all from a diplomatic standpoint?

>> specifically, i do not. >> no personal feelings? >> i do have a basis for giving you a good answer. >> let me switch a bit. i think, on this committee and the house armed committee, people are very nervous about turkey. the other base we have, is obviously in qatar -- it's almost like we're giving them a free pass those two countries there. we are very nervous about their

activities in supporting isis and some of the other -- you have any comments at all about the turkish situation -- in terms of being a squishy ally, at least in my opinion. a member of nato, and yet, i just do not trust them. >> i said earlier, i think turkey is a very important ally. we just had vp biden in turkey. we are in ongoing discussion with turkey about what we can do on the border. of those discussions are going

on. >> every time the question comes up of smuggling and black-market activities -- who is buying oil -- a couple of countries, and it is like they're getting a free pass. is anybody evaluating who are true allies are and who aren't? it's almost like the military stockholm syndrome. we had two bases in those countries but we do not pressure them. that is basically what i'm asking. are they getting a bit of a free pass? >> i would not say they're getting a free pass. weave a very -- we have a very strong in open dialogue. >> we talked to what about these foreign fighters coming to turkey.

how about, through some of the other areas. do they also come through -- i know large proponents from georgia -- are they largely from refugee camps where they are being recruited? >> the numbers of foreign fighters coming from other countries are much smaller than turkey. iraq, jordan, and lebanon have lesser numbers. we have obviously -- in the case of iraq and jordan, lebanon as well -- goes beyond what i can talk about in this session. >> the last question i had, is in regards to foreign fighters coming from russia. is russia facilitating their

leaving the country and going to another area -- simply because of the problems that they would cause internally in russia? >> i'm not aware of any evidence that they are encouraging foreign fighters to leave russia. >> thank you very much. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york. >> i think we need to ask the fundamental question, why they coming? isis, there most potent tool is momentum. the conquest of territory in syria and iraq. the ability to maintain momentum.

why, is isis so effective? because, there has been no effective counterforce to confront that. the united states spent $25 million building up the iraq he army and the iraqi army ran. so, the new york times reported this morning that there was a major deal between baghdad and kurdish leadership. that was a permanent long-term deal to provide 17% of the national budget to the kurdish region. in addition, $1 billion to pay for the salary and weapons in kurtistan area.

that is to be between 250 and 750 fighters. their experience, they are an effective army. they had proven allies to the united states in assisting us in the invasion of iraq. they fought side-by-side with the u. s. troops. they help the united states capture saddam hussein, this seems to be a major change in a dynamic as it relates to iraq's ability to push back isis. i do not know if you caught the news of the steel this morning, but i would like you to comment on it. i think, unless you can break the momentum of isis, it does not matter where foreign fighters are coming. the fact that they are coming is most important. to success and the momentum that has been sustained by isis over

a long period of time is the only reason you have foreign fighters coming to iraq and syria to fight -- regardless of where they're coming from. and like to hear comments on how this changes the dynamic in the region. >> that question within the well beyond my responsibilities, mr. higgins. i think it's better for my colleagues to testify in a subsequent hearing. i want to come back to a point made. clearly, yes the perceived success of isis is the reason why people are attracted. >> what is isis to take in social media? their success in taking over critical territory. in the take a way the recruitment -- the success of isis, they don't really have a story to tell. >> i was agreeing with you that

that is one of very important element why people are attracted to fight with isis. but there other factors as well. there's the situation in syria itself. isis has made very powerful use of the idea that they are defending sunis inside syria. again, that is something that we try to push back against. their other factors ranging from the idea -- in some cases, economics. i've been in some countries where the fighters -- the primary motivation is actually -- >> respectfully, let me -- i think there is important point that is being missed -- confront isis in syria. >> i do not think there is any disagreement. >> i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the

gentleman from florida. >> thank you mr. chairman. has the state department canceled any passports? >> to my knowledge, the state department is not canceled any passports. >> why is that? we had secretary kerry here and he says he has the power to do that. what is the reasoning behind not doing that? i ask that because the director of fbi was on 60 minutes a few weeks ago and he was asked about people who we have identified for joining isis -- could they come back to the united states. he was asked and said, if they weeks ago and he was asked about have a valid passport, they have a right to return. a lot of my constituents were surprised -- you have a right to come back just because you have

a valid passport. that struck me and my constituents as insufficient -- tracking them. >> you are right, secretary kerry has the right to revoke passports. the importance for average americans for the freedom to >> you are right, secretary travel -- >> obviously, foreign fighter would be an extreme -- >> we would only do it also in consultation with law enforcement authorities. we have not had any requests from law enforcement authorities to cancel passports of isis are foreign fighters. we have this authority, we have other tools obviously. >> maybe a known terrorist contacts the united states and there being quote tracked by law enforcement, what does that entail? >> congressman, if we have indications that someone on the no-fly list is trying to fight

back to the united states, we would deny them boarding, if we have the authority to do so, we would even recommend to the airlines. if someone shows up to the united states, and there is indication that that person has been a foreign fighter in syria, it would be referred to the fbi. it would be a matter for law enforcement. we would have the ability, at the border, and to ask any questions necessary and appropriate. we would have the authority to inspect their luggage and personal belongings to determine whether or not they were a foreign fighter fighting with isil in syria.

anything like this is taken very seriously. the notion that we would have someone into the united states just to monitor them, that is not what we are working on. >> what happened with the florida u. s. citizen who went

and trained in syria, then according to the new york times came back to the united states. he chose to go back to syria. we didn't have any intelligence on him? that's how he was able to come back.

>> the intelligence that he was able to fight with isil was after he departed. certainly, it is unfortunate the chose the path that he did. had he come back to the united states, there would have been measures on his case based on the status that he had at the time that we learn that he joined isil. >> my final question is -- that was something i flinched at. let me ask you, do we consider the iranians to be partners of any sort -- even if just in the baghdad area. >> i can say from my point of view, i certainly do not consider iranians to be partners. >> thank you. i yield back.

>> thank you mr. chairman. amb., can you talk about foreign fighters -- are they being used in propaganda videos? what his actual impact of the foreign fighters? >> again, some of this is information that could better be shared in a classified setting. let me share my observations from the work i have been doing. academic experts are doing some of them as well. the first distinction i would make -- isil has been willing to take on foreign fighters.

the al qaeda affiliate has been somewhat less willing. you have that distinction. the foreign fighters have been used in a variety of ways. this is a little different than foreign fighters in the case of afghanistan and iraq. very typically, the primary use of foreign fires was suicide bombers. i think some are used to suicide bombers, but they're more valuable -- the skills they can use, whether it is skills and social media, equipment,

medical, or other skills. i think they are being used in those areas, as well as fighters themselves. the very disturbing thing -- and academic has concluded that foreign fighters are often used for some of the most distasteful things that isil is doing. if you know as for example, the beheadings. apparently these are being carried out by some british acts. the analysis that peter newman has -- because foreign fighters come to syria, they do not speak arabic, they are anxious to impress isis.

there willing to do things that locals will not do. >> thank you. i know a prior colleague mentioned un resolution -- there was not only a new policy, but a set of protocols and framework -- is that a successful tool? that imposes an obligation on countries to prevent the ability of foreign fires to transit. what is the current status of that? >> as i was saying earlier, 2178 is a legally binding resolution. it obligates countries to criminalize foreign fighters. some fighters coming back from indonesia -- we never had a problem of people carrying out

terrorist attacks outside of indonesia. now, they're looking at harris to go to terrorist camps outside. countries are working hard to find where gaps in their legislation are. > i think it would be useful for us to have a sense -- finally, i went to turn to turkey. you said that they are not complete state, but it is clear that they have not been an enthusiastic partner. just last week, several foreign fighters travel to turkey. are they in fact, sharing information in counterterrorism efforts. you keep saying that they are an important part of.

think we recommend that have values, but their real questions on what they're doing on the ground. again, if you want a detailed analysis of exactly what -- i would say the following, we have seen steps by turkey to cut off oil. the information sharing and we have with the turks. >> i yield back. >> thank you, the chairman recognizes the gentleman from illinois. >> thank you. i appreciate it. let me ask you both -- or whoever is better to answer this. i'm sure he explained it, but

please explain to me, what is our policy in syria? what are we doing there? >> again, i'm not here as the administration spokesman. >> you are kind of demonstration for me. >> right, and that is my responsibility, how we are dealing with foreign fighter problem. it is not to make or explain our entire syrian policy. >> you have been preached on syrian policy though. >> i will give you the one sentence answer. bring about a settlement to bring a democratic future. >> i like the line.

i was one of the supporters in favor of the red line. it was the failure to enforce the red line that i have not heard articulated -- a serious proposal to get a hassad out of office. you do engage with fsa elements. >> no, i do not. >> who engages with ssa? >> i do not engaged directly with syrian opposition. bastrop rubinstein is a voice for that. certainly others are doing with

this issue. others in the pentag. i personally do not deal with that. >> let me ask you this, why is >> let me ask you this, why is it that isis is attracting foreign fighters versus foreign fighters coming to fsa -- those kinds of groups. what is it a isis that attracts? that you have seen. >> i think it was partially -- the discussion of having earlier, that they are successful. joining them is a way to combat. in some cases, the way they have

market in themselves, if you can say that. that they are an adventure. it is the declaration of a caliphate. people misunderstand what isis is doing. these are some of the factors that have caused isil to attract foreign fighters. >> i agree with you. i think success brings success. i have seen some isis propaganda and it is powerful. if you are a young person and you are looking for something fun to do, it looks fun. come here and do whatever you want to do, be with a bunch of guys who are pushing this idea of jihadism. you can see that. my concern -- obviously you're not the guy to talk about this with -- but, the message we sending for years about the free syrian army is quite the opposite. these are the people that we want to be part of a post about

her al-assad syria. but the other thing is, if you're looking to overthrow -- now, discussion in our newfound strategy is that if we train a few thousand over the next year. that would not attract anybody. i agree with you but, i hope, this administration really wrestles with the issue of syria and understands that you are not going to defeat isis without syria.

thank you for your testimony. i yield back. >> the chairman recognizes the gentleman from florida. >> thank you. ward, is joining ice is a crime under u.s. law? th materialnly giving support to isis is a violation of federal statutes. >> is a true of u. s. citizens and non-us citizens? >> well, the question of whether a foreign citizen violates foreign law -- >> no, u. s. law. >> we have been known to prosecute foreign nationals for violation of material support statutes. so, yes. >> let's talk about the irish residents who have apparently joined isis. what would happen if one of them travel to the united states? >> i'm not going to get into

hypotheticals -- i do want to say however, where somebody has been identified as a foreign fighter fighting for isil in syria, and it is possible to place the person on the watch list, they will be in all a no-fly liston that will attract a great deal of attention before they can get on a flight to the u.s. >> let's be as specific as we can. regarding the no-fly list, they would never be able to come to the u. s.? >> they would not be able to fly here. obviously, the no-fly list does not apply to other forms of transportation.

>> what are the names of those lists? the no cross the border lists. >> these are all systems managed by the terrorist to screening center. dhs has the authority to make admission decisions when someone presents him or herself at a border or at an airport. have the authority to refuse someone entry to the united states if they are deemed inadmissible. there are specific grounds on the immigration and nationality act that allow us to say someone who is reasonably suspected to be a terrorist or having given material support to terrorists, that that person can be denied entry into the united states.

>> regardless of whether it is in a country the requires of visa or not, they simple he will not be led in, right? >> we will comply with the law, i sure you. >> by not letting the men, right? ofthere are a whole bunch exceptions, but essentially, no. do we know some of the names of the 100 and 30 per click you should ask the fbi. the 130? we are talking about identities where the name of the person is known and certain

other information that allows us to be reasonably precise. for instance, when a decision for someone being on a no-fly list is made. >> or when they come back. according to what you said earlier, they have committed a crime and can be arrested upon entry. correct? >> in fact, that has happened, correct? >> yes. it's what happens after that? >> they are referred to the fbi for further investigation. that is outside of dhs's purview. if you want to start tracking people from that point forward, i would refer you to the fbi and to the department of justice. theou are familiar with procedures, right? >> i am familiar with the procedures. >> and you work with the fbi. >> yes we work with the fbi. having said that, we can

sleep more soundly, right? >> yes, you can. vigilance is a responsibility of all of us. >> i yield back. recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania. >> thank you. thank you for your time. a few months ago taxpayers were asked to spend a couple hundred million dollars for the training and some equipment for fsa fighters. on --u give us an update we are quickly approaching a time when that is set to expire. investment has gleaned us at this point. i am not the person who deals with the free syrian army or opposition. .

>> it is frustrating for us. questions that we have to respond to our constituents. i do you have or don't want to give answers. we walk away with nothing. it is frustrating. you have no indication, you are not even aware that the programs happened. that is your complete knowledge of it. again, i am not an authoritative spokesperson. >> you know anything? >> congressmen, i have testified for the better part of two hours about what i am trying to do, leading an effort to deal with foreign fighters, engagement with partners, the different approaches we are taking with those partners. not responsible for overall syria responsibility -- policy. my understanding is that you have a schedule in the reasonably near future with someone who will be up to address those issues.

if there are specific questions you one address, i am confident that we will find someone at the state department who can provide those answers. >> i can appreciate that. you have a long record of service. thank you for that. understand, when you come to these things as a representative of the department of state, you should have a of information, specifically the one we are talking about. as a member of congress, i can't say well, look to i'm not on appropriations. it is not my responsibility. see you later. with all due respect, i don't feel like your answer is acceptable at this time. with that having been said, if you could give me the unclassified version of a long-term -- unclassified -- long-term strategy regarding the peaceful transition in syria. we have a couple minutes here to do the best you can. give me the high points.

sokey doesn't like assad, they're not helping with isis. we don't like a solder or isis, but we think isis is the more problematic of the two. paints a picture of where we are going. you to spend $500 million for the free syrian army fighters for which you can provide no answers onto the american people are supposed to continue supporting the administration's policy -- imax what the heck it is. i am asking what the heck it is. >> i have tried to do that to the best of my ability. i was not asked to be a witness on our broader syria policy or discuss the future of syria. i have said that -- the essentials of our policy are to try and have a political settlement inside of syria. it enables to read you have a democratic future without al-assad. to be free from terrorist threats and terrorist organizations as well.

i really feel that if you want to delve more deeply into our , we can send someone who is an authoritative spokes person on our policy in syria. >> i appreciate that. those are great platitudes that all people can agree with. korsan group -- are you familiar with that? >> i am familiar with that. >> they are described as seasoned al qaeda operatives in syria? >> yes. when the president told us a couple of years ago that -- and i don't remember the exact words -- it was something similar to al qaeda is decimated and on the run. with thet comport san group inhe kor

syria him or that be counter meaning? >> my understanding is that al qaeda is an organization severely damaged. a does not mean that all the individual elements of al qaeda have been defeated. we see al qaeda in the arabian financial it. this group of fighters are coming from pakistan and afghanistan. they have tried to create space to operate in in syrian territory. it's a little bit true and maybe a little bit untrue? whatever you want to call appeared it's not completely factual. >> i don't share your views. >> i appreciate that. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois. >> thank you. i want to thank the witnesses for joining us today to talk

about the threat of foreign fighters going into syria. given tot the numbers us and the sources and location of where many of the fighters arecoming from -- 5000 coming from north africa, as we mentioned early. another 2500 from europe -- 40% .f those from france and another 4000 from the gulf states. is are thereestion any common threads of attracting these fighters from these different regions? are there specific regional trends that are tracking these fighters? at a we deal with that? you mentioned peter newman, who did a study in the spring and as afically identified -- cleric who has a large following , happens to be here in the

united states, not necessarily sending people to fight, the teaching a way that inspires those folks. what we doing specifically about folks like that, not just in the united states but with specific concern for people preaching from the united states? just to a jury's briefly your questions. there are differences. one common theme is the attraction of foreign fighters to the conflict, the idea that sunni muslims are being attacked and you to be defended. this is a fairly common theme throughout the conversations i have had with our foreign partners as to the reasons -- the primary reasons -- the foreign fighters are tracked it. there are variations on this theme. i have had conversations with officials who pointed to the fact that foreign fighters from their country are coming from

the poorest areas, and their foreign fighters are being told that if you go to syria, you get paid and have a job. you will have status. the ideological element is less important. i have talked to partners in southeast asia, where in some cases the motivation seems to go to get training, get skills they could be brought back to the home country to potentially be used in terrorist activity and the home country. again, not so much ideological motivation. there are variations be there are individual variations. the most important and most powerful does seem to be the conflict in syria, the needction of the idea, we to go defend our muslim brothers -- sunni muslim brothers in syria. >> large number coming from france, almost a thousand fighters. are those residents or citizens of france who have connections to 10 easier to morocco, or

libya? many of them are from north africa originally. many of them are second or third generation. these are not necessarily first-generation immigrants. that raises another kind of regional variation. andainly the problem inability of some of our european partners to in the great the immigrant population in their societies has left a degree of alienation that is made some of these people susceptible to the kind of propaganda that ice is is putting out. there's also another element here, which cannot be totally neglected. -- it is hard to come up with specific evidence -- there are foreign fighters who are attracted to violence that is taking place. there was a mention of one man who was alleged of killing man with athis is a

criminal background. again, i think there is an element of that in some of the attraction to foreign fighters -- the attraction of violence itself. study put out by mr. newman and to others that said -- they specifically identified two preachers globally who were having a disproportionate influence on promoting fighters goading -- going to syria. >> yes. department does not do activities inside the united states. going to address the specifics of any individual case, but i do want to make a point that and all the work that we do in community outreach, working with federal, state, and local law enforcement, we are mindful of the distinction between those who are exercising their free speech rights and those urging people to carry out violence. a protect the

latter is a crime. dodistinguish in all that we carefully between those two characteristics. i will not assess the statements of any individual religious leader from the table today. i will assure you that we are very mindful of the distinction and use that in all the work we do. time isthat, my expired. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia. >> thank you. i appreciate the time. i want to follow up on a couple of quick things. i was unable to be here for the whole time. punted times you have the issue in commenting on the administration's policy in syria. extent, iin stent -- understand that played you are part of the policy of working with foreign fighters coming into syria and working with them, correct? you understand the policy?

i'm not seen you to comment on it. do you understand it? again, -- what the main elements are, yes. >> ok. this is important. i'm not trying to pin you down. direct the question is a issue of what were dealing with. there are a lot of folks who are trying to understand our policy in syria and what were trying to do and someone like my friend who i served in iraq in this region during wartime, this is very much a concern. if we don't understand policy and you're trying to carry out a big part of the policy, to say that you do at least attempt to understand it is encouraging. my question is if you understand it, what is your understanding of that policy? what is your understanding of the ministrations policy? x the president has spoken about

a policy. a secretary of state has spoken about our policy. >> with all due respect, i can read their spirit i what yours. in the job description, you were given a job. you are there to carry at your part of the policy, correct? from your understanding of what the policy is on howard to contain a fight and curb these fighters, because i have other questions about the violence aspect, which i tend to agree with you. i think as a soldier of fortune attitude really want to go and get their experience. have a clear enough carrytanding of syria to out your function, and if so, what do you feel like you're part of that policy is? i do have enough understanding to carry out my role, sir. understand the policy, and

again i'm not the spokesperson, it it is to try to bring about a political settlement in syria that will allow the syrian people to have a democratic future. a future allow to be without al-assad. that is the core of the fundament of policy. that is the basis on which i try to do what i do, which is the idea that when trying to do with this fortifying -- foreign , bigger syrian pieces dealt with with by the secretary, not the president, my ambassador who is responsible for syria policy -- >> there is basically a three assad regime, -- the fighters against resigned. >> the fight is against the fighters of aside. we did not a dress that. i read and listened to the president speak about this. we chose to leave the current regime -- when were training

free syrian fighter sequester isis. we are saying that we will deal with the assault part of this later. -- the al-assad part of this later. curbyou doing to try to the outside fighters coming in? is that part of your policy? >> it is certainly -- most of the efforts i have talked about here today are related to syrian foreign fighters. will fightghters who for iso-and i'll nusra. al nusra.nd i'll >> would you say those fighters are in it for the fight? we all grew up in neighborhoods. you had one guy in class one of the fight.

a reason,there is sometimes there is not. would it classify like that? >> without being expert on the the fighters who are going to fight on the side of al-assad are different from the fighters who are coming from other countries to fight for isil. effortn organized supported by outside countries. >> i appreciate your understanding. i believe you have difficult job . understand policy is important. to be arminged those who want to fight, the kurds for we need to get them involved. you have a tough job. i commend you for doing that. i yield back. the chair recognizes the patient gentleman from florida. >> thank you. mr. chairman, i often feel like that the agatha christie novel and then there was non--- that is like --

>> three now. >> thank you for being here. this is been an interesting discussion to listen to. it sounds like the problem is the problem. i say that not to be facetious, but this sounds like to me one of these rock and a hard place situations, not to be try. trite. to be try i will try out of respect to narrow my questions to the foreign fighters. if i ask a question that deviates, you just have to say i will respect your answer, right. let's start with this proposition.

we are to assume that these foreign fighters coming back to our country is an immediate present the injured? danger to our security? >> we treat them as if they were a threat. that will be taken with the norma seriousness. we do need to recognize that there is the possibility that some foreign fighters walked away from the fight because they decided that isil was not like advertised. i would echo secretary johnson's characters racing -- characterization that their propaganda is slick. undoubtedly, there are people who are walking away from the

fight -- >> is it an immediate threat? >> that answer is that some are. back -- yout to get said that these fighters that are coming from other countries -- many of them are going to fight al-assad. is that what you said? >> i said that that was one of the primary motivations. so, when we go after isil -- airstrikes in iraq. when we try to denigrate isil, we are in a sense helping al-assad, is that correct? >> i don't think were helping al-assad. i think his problems go well beyond what we do with isil. consolationing some

in the fact that we are backing isil, he is making a big mistake. >> i'm trying to figure this out. if isil is coming -- the fighters are coming in to fight al-assad, which i did denigrate isil. as we -- do we encourage or incite more fighters to come in? our actions or inactions inciting more fighters to come in? or in action to go after al-assad -- is that a siding more fighters to come in? >> i'm not sure i can give your definitive answer here. i can't point to specific evidence. to put myself me in the head of a foreign fighter who sees airstrikes -- >> what about the advertising. they do bring the fighters in.

>> they are trying to use our actions as an incentive or motivation for people to come and fight. can't point to specific evidence at this stage, particularly the setting that says whether this is extra happening not. >> are most of the fighters coming into turkey? >> yes. me another issue here is turkey is being -- under deluge.y factor innk that is a their not keeping the borders more secure?