i don't know whether most americans, most human beings think these enhanced interrogation techniques would be torture. if you look at the opinion polls , i've been looking at opinion polls this week, americans roughly 2-1 think these are justified to get information from terrorists. i'm not sure if i agree with what people suggested when they say i know what american people think. that is one of the faults of the feinstein report. -- senator feinstein seems quite clear she knows what torture is and is not and this is what happened in the cia actually authorized torture. claims the cia covered it up deliberately from congress and the white house. >> "washington journal" continues. host: at the table, reverend al sharpton.

here to talk about the "justice for all" march in d.c. what is the message behind the march? guest: we want the congress and the national administration to jur with the state grand ies that seem to have a real conflict of interest when it comes to investigating and moving forward with law enforcement. the recent grand jury decision not to move forward it to trial in ferguson, missouri and staten island, new york, represents over and over are again occurrences when we engage questioningorcement fatal shootings or brutality. today's march will be led by the mother and father of michael brown junior from ferguson. the wife and mother of eric of theand the mother

12-year-old killed by police in cleveland, ohio. parents and the .amily members there his domestic partner and child will be there. these are the people who have seekdirectly hurt and only a public trial so that evidence can be put out when there is adversarial representation, not enclosed proceedings were a works dailyutor with these law enforcement officers and will not be inclined to prosecute them. that is what today is about. host: numbers on the bottom of

the screen for reverend al sharpton. our coverage of the march begins at 11:30 eastern time. we will have a live here on c-span. to get bring peace and then they will march up to the capital. we look to cover all of it today starting at about 11:30. you can call in for reverend sharpton just a moment. how many folks are you expecting today? we don't ever play the numbers game. we expect several thousand. buses are coming from all over the country. what is unprecedented about today is bringing together these families leave the march. -- two lead at the march. wen you hear the rhetoric,

leave the engine out of the room. washingtonbring to the engine, the ones who have to sit at the christmas table in two weeks and a loved one is gone and no just hearing insight. what is the threshold in terms of federal -- the federal government, the justice department intervening in these cases? we need to deal with the congressional hearings. isn't it, they proposed a bill of putting cameras on police. these pieces of legislation, we want to show mass support. we need congressional action. host: william from eureka, california. democrat. caller: good morning.

i admire you and i have watched you for years. what i'm concerned about -- i them a white caucasian retired greyhound driver. i want a good, honest answer from you. this morning, i happen to turn on your arrival, fox news. on fox news, they say you are behind a new video called "kill cops." please elaborate on that. don't first of all, i even know about a new video called "kill cops." i am against killing cops, killing anyone. we are a nonviolent movement. we grew out of those that were with dr. king's movement. i first chairman of the board was dr. king's executive director. not only am i not behind this, i would unilaterally oppose anyone

talking about killing cops. there will be police groups marching with us today. several of our blanket law enforcement officers -- black law enforcement officers. havewere saying that i advocated peace. this is not anti-cop and certainly not killing cop. this is about anti-police brutality and police misconduct. there is a huge difference. host: what do you think about what president obama has had to say about these cases? guest: this president has stood been clearly shown more forward movement than any president i have seen and i have dealt with the last three. i had access to president clinton.

him to never able to get direct a task force as this president has come to speak and the victims over and over again and the justice department to move forward and go to ferguson. more movement we have seen of any president, but clearly we would like to see even more. activists are usually not satisfied until we see laws change permanently. host: there is a passage in the washington post piece about the march today. there is a small map they put together in the post. and thethe white house washington monument. they will meet at freedom plaza roughly at 11:00 or 10:30 and then at 1130, the event actually starts to begin. they will march of pennsylvania avenue and get the capital about 1:15.

i want to ask you about a passage in this piece. younger activists who have been disenchanted by sharpton and the traditional black leadership are not planning to attend. many of them will be participating in a national day of resistance. doesizers of that process protest are using more confrontational language. any thoughts on those folks? guest: i can't remember any major effort where you did not have different views they considered more strident. dr. king went through that. biggest critics were people on the far left and far right. a lot of young people are coming. garnerghter of eric cochaired our march with a 16-year-old.

the youth departments of the naacp and national action represent more widespread use that a lot of people give them credit. a lot of young activists work with us. will you always get those that don't? absolutely. will they get attention? this is not about who says what or what slogan is what. this is about respecting these families. , keep whoever marchers focused on we want justice for the families. host: steve in roanoke, virginia. republican. caller: hey. i just want to say, you are a disgrace, man. -- you areent obama not a uniter, a divider.

along with jesse jackson. why are you not in jail? don't you all taxes? we taxes? guest: to call the president and all of us dividers, that's easy shot. when you see so many of us united around an issue and ,nited around calls for justice civil rights leaders, leaders, how is that dividing because you may have a different point of view? is something that has been raised by the right wing over and over again. , the07, seven years ago government came in because the right wing said national action network has phantom employees and we are shaking down companies and they did this investigation and all that came -- they said we will give

you a payment plan which we lived up to. they go back to the original figure because the weeds are never removed until you are finished. had not complied, we would have been put out of business. around had a fundraiser my birthday where we raised over $1 million. would you believe the iris would let us do that if we did not comply to pay these back taxes? the use any kind of day version diversion. stone mountain,st: georgia. caller: we are being deceived by the media.

it isn't so easy for them to point was against what you are marching for instead of what the purpose is. he for real about everything. this is borderline hate. yes, president obama got elected. you have to know that everything -- youout of fox news have hate coming from different areas. i want you to be honest about something. i called into your show and after trayvon martin got killed and a few weeks later, they had a vote.

they have something against voting. we have to get our young people -- the whole generation -- we lost the senate because we did it for ourselves to get out and vote and we are marching the street. guest: i certainly agree with the caller that race is a factor. when you look at the fact that out of all the data that is available, there is a disproportionate amount of blacks that are shot and killed by police in a disproportionate amount of blacks that do not see their cases go to court. that is exactly right and you are right, we have been dealing with this a long time. you deal with it until we went, not if we went. w until we win, not if we in. you are right about the

underestimation of the hate and vitriol. that you wouldy question a grand jury. to closest thing to getting a police state is when you cannot even question them. if we are looking at video of eric garner being choked by ronere, the city core saying he was killed by that chokehold and a grand jury will not send it to trial to question that video and question that all of a sudden dividers and haters and want to kill cops. that is absolutely absurd. that is the kind of event and we are facing. -- kind of a venom we are facing. host: some are asking questions,

some are making comments. justiceants to know if for all -- will mister sharpton protest blacks killing white. guest: absolutely. the problem he has to deal with amount of erwhelming data available that is when you or e blacks killing blacks, blacks killing whites, or whites killing whites -- the criminal justice system tends to work in prosecuting those cases. they do not tend to work when you have police killing blacks. 179 killings in new york. only three of them were even prosecuted, on the one convicted. the problem is making

system work fairly across the board. is not our dealing, marching all across the board; we have a permanent national action against gun violence in our community. our problem is getting the guns off the streets. the problem here is getting police that do wrong prosecuted. host: an independent color for reverend al sharpton. hi, don. guest: good morning. there was a tragedy and misery. this is a serious tragedy. you and the black caucus have turned your back on this man. you all turned your back on him. guest: first of all, i don't know the case. i don't know the case, and to back is to say

that he came -- or someone representing him -- came and asked our health. garner family called us the day eric gardner was killed. and we responded to the call. the family in ferguson, missouri -- michael brown's called us that night. we respond when people come to national action network. we do not just run in every case we may hear about. we respond when called. didn't turn our backs. host: don, are you still there? let's move on to south carolina. bill, are you there? caller: yes. i think the caller from more or less addressed the question. across the country

preaching ccausing trouble. thank you. guest: well, if bringing help to those who are hurt is causing trouble, then i am guilty. if standing up for those who are dispossessed and despised because of who they are, then i am guilty. that i serve -- you know, we can debate -- but think it is beneath anyone that claims to be a christian to question someone else's commitment to jesus. i am a minister. i have been a preacher since house little boy -- ordained into the church of christ -- back is a minister -- as a minister for twenty years. we can have different opinions, not different facts. i would not question your i ligious conviction even if disagree with you. host: speaking of matters of faith, the religious section of the "washington post" today -- guest: yes, he is a very good

man. host: he is making the point churches months lead the battle against police brutality. guest: the majority of them are ministers, and reverend codes the rising national of the rising e national preachers, leading the charge. he is correct, the faith community has a moral lead the way y to toward humane and moral society. coming about through legislation and other things. that was the southern christian leadership conference. they will be part of the march today. i think it is very important what he is saying. host: you are picking d.c., of course, for the march.

beyond issues like cameras, what other solutions are you looking for? guest: the jurisdictional threshold that are set for federal intervention and police crimes -- must be changed by congress. there must be more funding for in the ights division with ce department to deal police matters -- everything for militarization of place to the questions of police abuse. and, clearly, we need to deal with the legislation that the rs have framed -- michael brown legislation, cameras on police -- i will be able to deal with state special prosecutors. i think that we must take this out of this conflicted role of local prosecutors. host: it wasn't planned, but there are going to be a lot of senators in town today. do you plan on spending a lot of time with them today?

guest: they will know that we are in town. i had breakfast two or three weeks ago with senator rand paul. we don't agree much on anything, but we talk about this issue. we talked about him working senators about the disproportionate rates -- i with him on that. we talked to people in the the time, including people wwho may be of opposing views. will understand the reasons of the people out here this morning. host: tom on the democratic line in detroit, michigan. tom, are you there? caller: reverend al, mostly, comes from the south and the few ignorant blacks that listen to fox news. i am so glad that you ignore those ignorant people. i also want to say that i am

for the fact that we know that g people black lives do matter. and you have awakened to the entire nation and the world to this races of medicine this country that has been buried a long time -- racism this country has been buried in for a long time. you are for everybody. god bless you and keep on pushing. guest: thank you. i think that a lot of people in the country felt that with the election of president obama that we were in a post-racial era. obama's that president elections has shown how far the country has gone. but it did it mean that we were in a post-racial generation, or

a post-racial era. we still have a long ways to go. politically, we have made some advancements. in my lifetime, i have seen us going from my mother not voting having a n town to black president. but we have not dealt with the criminal justice system. we still have economic challenges. morning's paper talks about how the median income of a black family is now worse the last thirty years. so we should not try and in any the progress we made, but we should not have it means the that discussion -- struggle is over. host: back to president obama as he talks about you as the go to guy. how often do talk to the president? guest: i talked to the

president to maybe two or three times a year. every president deals with the so-called traditional civil leadership of their time national action network -- but when clinton was was george, jesse jackson. -- n carter was president there have always been those on the outside who have had access to the president. i met with george bush -- we education together, even after me in his department fought on different things. it is something that they tried to make -- go to anybody. i think that the president of with nited states deals whatever groups represent a constituency at the time they are in office. be irresponsible not to.

paul -- staten island because of the concern, and the families called national action network and asked us to lead the charge for them. who are they supposed to talk to? to appoint upposed someone else? he didn't and rita ferguson, he called me. they didn't send me to staten island. they contacted me after the family had already called. i think it is presumptuous, if not arrogant, to tell people that if we want to put who we of t in front of the consent the victim -- who has already said, i want to do with these people for whatever reason that a choose. host: let's hear from gary. madison, tennessee. an independent. caller: i am not going to call

you a reverend, because i do not believe you are a reverend. i think you are a white hustler. host: do have any questions? say t: first of all, let me this -- you are saying i'm a don't ustler, but you know who pays. i think, again, that when we admit are premises shakey, how can the conclusion be solid? host: let's see if gary has a question. gary. caller: yes. how can he have peace, and how and he be a christian, constantly stir up all this hate? to the gym n go nowadays bbecause the hate i in the black friends' eyes.

there is always going to be a minority of people who don't like each other. there is a lot of love out there, too. but what good does it do to hate talk about how much there is -- whites to blacks. we all know it goes both ways. a a matter of fact, there is lot of prejudice that al sharpton doesn't talk about as far as how much blacks hate whites. why don't you talk about that a little bit? guest: first you said, i'm not going to call your reverend. whether you call me that or not, i am a minister. second of all, you say that i stood up hate in the eyes of people in your gym. which is a real, real stretch. but lastly, if you say the estate on both sides, i would announce hate on both sides. but i think to say that you are me of stian and accuse certain hate in the eyes of

people in your gym -- after you denounce my christianity -- i need to at you really sit down, if you say you are question, and meditate and pray about it. your own reflection of where you are. host: there is another gary on the line for massachusetts. a republican color. good morning. caller: i have this understanding that this is all wrong about the man -- he got choked for selling cigarettes. michael brown, there was more reason there to shoot. black and white thing -- he is always going on about the black people, the black people, but never about the whites. the utah police department, even though he was unarmed -- he and his brother.

not one bit of coverage on this kid. not one word from the president. not one word from al sharpton, jesse jackson, and the list goes on. let me say t of all, this -- if we were familiar would this case, they have called in and we would've felt that it was a kind of civil rights issue -- we would be there. i give you a kiss from george bush many years ago -- we have that are h many cases not black victims. of all, i think to call somebody a racist because they didn't do with the case even know about -- aagain, why the stretch? we can disagree without changing facts and becoming absurd. to say that something happened

in massachusetts that i didn't me a racist -- and i didn't even know about it -- i don't think that is fair from your own opinion. host: let's try the democratic caller for the reverend al sharpton. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. al sharpton, i have called you for years -- hello? host: yes, you are on the air, tony. caller: yes, i have followed all sharpton for years. over the years, i have seen you really sed, and you have changed the spotlight. you don't need anybody to define you, al sharpton. you say uri reference, you are a reverend. i'm proud of you. let me tell you this -- nothing in this country will change. you can put body cameras on his

police. can change their training and everything. the only way that things are change in this country -- from white police officers killing black youth -- is that the mentality has to change. you have to change the mentality of these individuals. or else the same thing is going to happen again and again and again. host: tony, how do you change the mentality? caller: how do you change the mentality? you have to put -- put -- you have to send these the school to listen to the conversation between blacks, whites, hispanics, people of color. to have to sit down and come a greater understanding that -- that we are human beings. and we must -- all of us,

color we are what -- must be treated like human beings. this has to be indoctrinated minds of these people that you are dealing with a being, not a black, white, green, yellow, purple -- host: thank you, tony. tony is right -- training and orientation must be part of it. need laws to govern and protect people. and i think he is right, you have to change the mentality. but until you do, you have to protect you s to until that. of civil rights movements the 1960's -- before my time, i was just growing up in. doctor king en when join illed, which made me the movement -- they change the wanted y before they

people to use everything together. host: police. let's talk about better policing. we found this article that we thought was interesting to talk about. building a better police department, it is called. what would an ideal one look like? if we started over entirely from scratch. law enforcement from the u.s. is primarily handled at the local and state level, they point out. two years ago, the right, the netherlands consolidated his twenty-five regional police forces into one. remain n police forces as decentralized as wwhen each colonial village formed its own nightwatch. there are 18,500 police departments in the country, and most have fewer than ten members. they fail to learn from one

another's mistakes and successes. why not have them for the only members of society who are authorized to use force? guest: i think that a police force that is, first of all, that the he cities police -- that are sensitized, in dealing with time how d at the same they relate to the population -- and are accountable. you cannot have police who are above the law. police serve to enforce the law. let me be very clear, paul, i do not think that all police are bad. i do not even think that most of them are. but the bad ones give the good ones a name, which is why we have to hold tthe bad ones accountable. host: moving on to florida.

rudy calling on the republican line. hi, there. caller: good morning, reverend sharpton. guest: good morning. to make a would like comment, and i would also like to apologize ahead of time if take it personally -- because there is nothing personal about this. as long as the african-american community follows the democrats and follows leaders like you, sir, things are always going to get worse. that is the way it is going to stay. fear that the democrat has its way, it is going to do the same thing as they do to the latino community. guest: i wish she would say what the democrats are doing that they is d going to get worse. he is, in many ways, generalizing. i have said specifically what and re questioning here what we want. i am not just name-calling.

when i was younger, i used to do that. i think we sometimes name: we don't know what we really want to say. you : reverend sharpton, have been on for a couple years now. when you're on that show, do you consider yourself a journalist? guest: no. that leaves an who has done hosting ttalk radio for years, and in any -- and opinionated television show for over three years. so i think that you can't say that on the right, bill o'reilly or sean hannity has an opinionated show, but i don't on the left. then others say -- ooh, well, is involved in causes, but how can he represent a point of view on television?

if o'reilly can write books on his opinion, i can march on my opinion. you are now going to decide which way we can express our opinions? usemy hand to write. i use my feet to express myself. why can't we both do television? i think it is really a nonissue. host: coverage for the for all" march today on c-span. we'll have it all for you live a little bit later this morning. reverend sharpton, you mmentioned the gap. the racial wealth gap is growing, according to a study. the level of inequality is the highest since 1989. what does that mean to you? guest: it means that we have a lot of work to do in terms of creating jobs, creating entrepreneurship, and equalizing where we deal with this economy. when i look at this congress --

deal with today on policing issues -- these are uplift, i that should say, those who have been locked out of the economy. must be a at there concerted effort on that. last we had the march year, and rally, that commemorated the fiftieth anniversary of the march on -- over 200,000 people -- we raised the issue than. all, here they go -- oh, do they go. unless we deal with the inequality issues, many based which was doctor king's fight -- unless we deal with that, we'll never have a nation with equal opportunity. host: on facebook, we have a little bit different perspective -- when will you

acknowledge the enormous of color that people have made? have just said i -- the progress in electing a black president. i have acknowledged it, saluted it, and am proud of it. which is also why i am encouraged that we can do it in the areas we have not made progress. host: let's hear from alabama, an independent color. hello, mary. caller: i was at the university of miami when martin was assassinated. the year i ied graduated. i marched, mister al, i marched with martin luther king. i met him.

i am now in south alabama. i have black friends come away friends, latino friends and south alabama. my father blessed children from across buffalo to a white school. something, you reverend al -- the ten commandments says do not bear false witness. you did that with raleigh. guest: can i ask you a question? don't have a minute. you have all the time in the world. guest: i am saying that we are going to give you the time. i have one question. are you there, mary? caller: yes, i am here. guest: name one lie that i incited? caller: crown heights.

guest: i was not there. i was in new jersey at home and didn't even know there was a riot. that is what i am saying, you go on this false information. there was a riot in 1991 that everyone clearly said that i was not there. there was no right after the funeral. we are talking about, what, twenty years ago. but in her mind, i am causing riots because that is the projection. with ays she marched doctor king -- aas i said, i was very close. the last much he led in memphis, there was some violence that broke out that was blamed on him when he was denied thing it. to escape ys the way the message -- to try and smear the messages. that, i understand, is part of my job. but let us at least tried to be factual.

host: glenn from birmingham, alabama. hi, there. caller: reverend sharpton, it is so great to see you on tv this morning. i am so glad that i'm able to get in on this conversation. i am so sick and tired of people blaming reverend sharptonabout racism in america. is in your heart, deal with it. reverend sharpton cannot -- cannot tell you how you feel about nobody. that is on you. reverend sharpton, you have done great in this country. the gentleman that came on and made a statement about stopping the democratic party -- what about the whites that want to down you on msnbc? that is what is going on now with the policeman. you called yourself an african-american man.

it is the concept. you have to change your heart. you are reverend. no one -- no one runs god's kingdom's. so the so-called christians that are calling in -- get yourself together. guest: well, i thank you for what you said. again, the only thing i take exception is with people who make statements that they cannot back up. and questions about religions. brought it up -- everybody in new orleans comes to church in the morning. i preach every weekend at a different church, and then i'm home conducting our services. only -- i preach at least twice a week in churches. was the youth director.

to question someone's and their religious beliefs i think is the need someone to the dignity. host: there is one issue you up along the way -- in and probably longer -- getting african-americans, getting minority folks out the vote because change can happen when they vote. how do do it? guest: i think you have to give people reasons to come out. you have to turn people on to turn them out. when they really believe that to stand ets are going up -- or the candidate is going to stand up for jobs, for -- ortunities, for families they come out and stand up. even in the reelection when you had many starting voices denouncing president obama. he got more black vote in his reelection than in the first

one. vote when they feel they are voting for their interests. that the problem is vote not telling people to for a party, nnot telling people to vote because i am the most charismatic person -- they will come out. host: hi, joe. caller: thank you so much for taking my call, reverend al. i just have a couple questions real quick. first of all, i'm not going to talk about anybody's belief or religions. second of all, wwith everything that has taken place through the years, but most recently what happened in ferguson, what man in d to the young ohio -- my question is, and i truly don't understand -- how has this become racial? how has it become a racial

issue? the police officer -- i'm sure, he had to do what he was want to do. he was doing his job, from what we have been told. was doing what he knew was right in his mind. but somehow, everything has legs, if you will, to take off and this has become a racial issue. when i don't -- i didn't see how this has actually become racial. guest: let me tell you. issue was excessive force, in terms of ferguson we were called in, and in terms of staten island when national action network was actually called in. the other organizations -- co-convened.

that the data says that there is a disproportionate amount of blacks killed by that are not persecuted. that is where the race came in. and then the reaction has, i think, been racial. look at the comments we have some callers this morning. i think that that kind of venom and where it comes from. thing is, aging though, joe, is that you see an enormous amount of whites who have come out marching and are coming out and saying that black lives matter. white leadership -- do not underestimate how the labor leadership has stirred up white participation today. so i think the way to heal that races problem is for all to stand up for equal protection under the law.

that is why we call the march today. again, you and i don't have to agree, but i don't have to desecrate your beliefs aand your religion and all to disagree with you. host: our guest: is reverend al sharpton, founder and president of the national action network. the march -- our coverage 11:30 a.m. eastern time. going to begin s at -- we will have it live for you here on c-span. thank you, al sharpton. >> thank you. >> we are going to talk next larry pratt, the executive director of gun owners of america. later, we will open up the phones. in the meantime here, as congress wrapped up, members of floor to took to the give tributes. here is some of that right now.

[video clip] >> john dingell has been the a ader of the committee, leader of congress for longer than anybody else has served in either the senate or the house. but what i want to say is from my own personal perspective. i have served on that committee for forty years. and i learned more from john dingell than i have from anybody else that i have served with as a colleague. when we had imes disagreements, and we argued them out. and then resulted in a compromise them. but most of the time, he was a defender of the interests of the working people of this country. a protector of the environment. a person who led the efforts for civil rights. who cared about people. and understood that government a very important role to play in people's lives.

from his father, who was active president deal under lead lin roosevelt -- will this nation to use the a positive way -- john dingell carried on that tradition. the liberal progressive tradition, and i associate myself with it. learned everything i knew, as a member of the committee. learned everything i knew as a short-term chairman from john dingell. he is going to go down in the one of the ks as outstanding members of congress and leaders and chairman of the oldest committee in the house of representatives. mister speaker, i know we don't have a lot of time, so i just that john dingell -- i wish you all the best. i know you will whisper to

she has any questions right course to take because she has been with you long enough she will probably, by this time, know what to do on her own. god bless you, john dingell. i yield back the balance of my time. >> "washington journal" continues. pratt, re now with larry the executive director .of gun owners of america good morning, thank you for being here. we noticed this poll put out that there is actually a growing public support for gun rights. more say that guns do to protect people at risk. the numbers these days, 52% say it is more important tto protect the rights of americans to own guns. is more important to control ownership. they might have underscored how important it is for people to be able to defend themselves.

where guns are prohibited to invite murderers seems to be the take away that many americans are increasingly zones ng with -- gun free simply don't work. that was a gun free zone, and the dirt bag had quite some time to operate before hhe that the good guys with the guns were on the way. have been lobbying congress for quite some time to try get rid of these gun free zones. one of the last readouts of motor friendly zones is the school. where ere are states schools are permitted places, wwhere people can have concealed carry firearms -- utah, the whole state. anyplace people can have a concealed firearms if they have a permit. in virginia, liberty university

has a very open policy that on as i welcome. other schools just have no policy, which means that you if the law permits. host: phone numbers are on the bottom of the screen. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8002 for independents. 202-748-8003 for gun owners. we'll be talking for just a couple minutes more, and then we'll start your calls. there will certainly be a lot of calls coming in asking here, but the ons organization has put out an analysis of school shootings. they talk about the two years been newtown, there has

ninety-five school shootings and nonfatal al assaults, suicide, and an average of one week. we heard about a similar situation in oregon yesterday. guest: well, first of all, it is not a very well-defined are er because they including afterschool hours, across the street -- so it is very good number, but eeven if it were a good number, it would underscore our concern continue to tell -- do not protect yourselves? we have shown that to be a monumental failure. if these were two failures, it would only underscore the point we are making. host: welcome in your calls, and we'll get to them in just a minute. we want to show you a tape from the senate floor this week. two years after -- hhe calls on congress to take action to prevent future school

shootings. [video clip] hopefully, congress can recognize that our silence, our inability to pass anything in two-year period of time since sandy hook past complacent makes us and the continuing assault on students all across this country. here is the map. two years since newtown, there has been ninety-five different school shootings all across the country. ninety-five different school shootings have occurred. during the last three months were seventeen school shootings. including a single week where was one everyday -- five events over the course of five days. this is an absolute epidemic all across pening this country since sandy hook. are why i see that we

complicit is because when there response from congress -- no legislative act passed to try and do something about this send a message -- a message of quite endorsement of what is happening. i know that is not our intent. i know that is not in hearts or minds of our members. but people notice that when there is a shooting and congress does absolutely well, the private sector in the state sector step up to do something about it. day when we happened two years ago, but a day in which we should feel ashamed that we single thing to try to stem this tide. host: your response? guest: to a certain extent, i actually agree with the senator. we haven't done anything, and that is not good.

we should be getting rid of the gun free zone laws that are on many of the books around the country. we don't have mass shootings at police stations. we don't have mass shootings at most places where people are able to protect themselves. but even in a state like utah, have xample, where you can a concealed carry firearm at a school -- they had a mass shooting at a mall several years ago. the mall was posted -- no guns. host: we will have a guest: from the brady campaign tomorrow, just to let you know. to e with calls if you want watch then, too. meanwhile, we are talking with larry pratt. how long has the group been around? guest: we are well into the third decade. host: how are you funded? guest: by our members.

host: let's hear from daniel. good morning, daniel. caller: good morning. i am forty-seven years old, and have resisted for most of my to purchase a gun. way things are going and his previous issues that you are discussing with the reverend al sharpton -- there are criminals on the street with their own guns who don't abide by the rules. the real threat -- the real problem with the gun shootings and all that -- like i said, i'm forty-seven years old. i am put into a position where to buy a gun. i dread the day that i'm going to be put in a position where i have to use it. i suggest anybody that cares happened and for the way things are going in the

country today on themselves. people are talking about reeducating the police, and not about the criminals. host: is there one episode or one incident that you have to change your approach to? caller: on buying a gun? oh, yes. i have been placed in many situations where i wish i had one. so far, i'm still alive. host: larry pratt. guest: daniel, i appreciate your call. and i appreciate your openness and how you have changed your mind. personally, i know some people who have been down that cimarron -- same road. you are basically saying -- when you buy that gun, for reasons that you stated, is that i understand the police what do i do if

sheriff clark of milwaukee county, wisconsin says -- it will take maybe five minutes. if that is all the time it takes the place to get there, what will i do? i have to build to protect myself. as the sheriff has said on many occasions, we are in this together. host: john is calling from pennsylvania. an independent color for larry pratt. caller: thank you for taking my call. i kind of agree with the first caller there. they are trying to make police, essentially, standdown when gangs and iolence and street violence and things like that. gun owner, me, as a is that the government, you know, is essentially telling the law enforcement to stand front of the criminals. the gentleman said earlier, we need to be able to defend ourselves. we have the second amendment. i am more frightened about the

government telling a police going to let gangs do what they want. and the people are at risk. so my question for mister pratt an what can you do in environment like that where police are essentially being trained to stand down? and the media says that is a good idea. guest: interestingly, ferguson gives us one answer. gasoline station least was protected by at half a dozen black men who had worked at the station as they were growing up. the idea that some of their to o neighbors were going towards this place didn't go down well with them. they got theri guns -- their guns. they were all armed and they were there to protect that men do them very well -- as they were working for him.

and i think that the response of the community was really encouraging. as much ot get attention as the dirt bags with matches, but they were very making something that happened. host: brent. lancaster, california. a democrat. caller: hi, there. a question for mister pratt. i come from california, as you well know. a junior nra member in 1963. i trained in firearms and i have been there. my basic question is -- i have having difficulty understanding -- coming from it is i come from -- understandable that you

guns and you -- you go through what people back east seem to have a big problem with. i have never had a problem with that, i grew up with it. however, is eing, that most children today -- i was eight ting when i years old, and my daughter i gan when she was six -- know, i trained her. i do not see the national trust talk about firearms -- i don't see enough training the national rifle association and by many associations. to restart that again in schools? guest: it depends a lot on state law and local policy, wwhether schools offer training or not.

the irony is that, here in the i'm rict of columbia where sitting right now, have buildings that used to be schools. in the basement of those buildings, there are firing ranges. they are not used for that schools and the newer don't have them, so we just changed the policy over the years. i think you have raised a very good point. children should be given the opportunity, especially if the be ents are okay with it, to trained in firearms so that they know how to handle them safely. just the way we offer driver training in schools. host: one of the headlines this week, mister pratt -- democrats pushing to revise field gun control legislation. the 're looking to revive legislation, strengthened background. they realize it is an uphill battle with the republicans taking over the senate. but with background check legislation, what is appropriate, in your view?

guest: no background check. the background check is a totally useless crime-fighting tool. upwards of 20,000 -- 20 million background checks per year. and only a couple of handfuls of convictions result from those background checks. criminals t identify because most criminals -- they get their guns and other way. it really is an imposition on the american people. in imposition imposed by a government that cannot be trusted. they say they get rid of that information after twenty-four hours. think that the government who listens to everyone of our phone calls is not interested in who has a gun? i think they are probably keeping that information, in spite of the law. even been here have studies done -- longitudinal period , meaning over a of time -- using the database

of the instant background check. caught them lying -- on more than one occasion -- and we do not think it is appropriate for the government to keep that information. we did have background checks on people working for the government, not the people. line we have clear on the from wisconsin. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. thank you for c-span. i really believe in the constitution and the second amendment rights. i wish you could move forward the question of why we cannot clarify the gun free e between zones and concealed carry rules. favor of background checks for people who want to have concealed carries -- i a very good idea comes, i e confusion think publicly, from that i

should have the right to put my my hip or carry my gun over my shoulder anywhere i want. i would like to comment on that. guest: i certainly agree with the latter part of your statement. i would point out that there are now five states -- another of alf of incorporated areas -- where you can carry a concealed firearm without any government involved whatsoever. among the tates are lowest crime producing state in the country. as you said, wwe don't need the government to tell us. someone asked er, this question -- when the rights of gun owners conflict with those of citizens, which should have precedence? gun owners are

citizens, and i do not see any conflict. citizens are the ones who have protection under the second amendment. really no conflict whatsoever. host: let's hear from mike, oklahoma city. hi. mike, you are on the air. caller: yes, think of a much. in the early oma 1980's there were billboards that said -- if you do the crime, you do the time. so if you rob the bank, route a was automatic jail time. secondly, the gun club that i -- wwe have nra women on d, we have shoot, boy p and

scouts -- so, you know, there is training out there. i know, i participate in the training of those young kids. you can,, two questions. i would greatly appreciate it. certainly, there is training and it is up to the parents to avail themselves to find what they can for the kids. to the boy e call so many r 4h were others -- in just about any state in the country -- offer training. spot on. thank you for pointing that out. the first question about the crime resulting in time -- that, i think, is we should insist on from our policymakers and from our politicians. this is not something to let slide. there should be consequences

for bad behavior. host: another headline -- gun right advocates call on republicans. this is a story from "the hill" newspaper. they talk about gun owners of america saying the gop should vote against this trillion dollar government spending package. how come? guest: well, the funding package included monies for as an amendments in a a senator got stuck federal budget. the way they work in washington, they just roll it from year to year. but his amendment says that is no funding available for the federal agency that restore the firearm rights to somebody who has messed up earlier in life. somebody commits a -- an easy example -- a nonviolent felony, some sort of embezzlement.

and that was twenty years ago. that person shouldn't be able to have a gun today? according to the budget, there is no money available. to take the orced budget that the congress was a continuing ith resolution -- just rolling everything over to the next year. that means all the bad stuff goes along with it. they are also funding the amnesty declared, illegally, by the president. and we know from surveys that that 85% of ken those, among the illegals, are going to vote for anti-second amendment politicians. host: the article also points out that the nra seems to disagree. the nra wrote to speaker boehner expressing strong support for the funding bill calls a of what it pro-gun provision. guest: they are correct and what they are supporting. that entails an

insignificance alongside the 5,000,000 to 10,000,000 illegals all of a sudden voting against pro-second amendment candidates. they were concerned about lead and ammunition. been ny places, lead has banned from ammunition, which is a mistake. is quite correct -- lead is not toxic in the form of a bullet. bullets do not vaporize. so they were correct, as far as they went, but i think he kind of got lost in the weeds. host: we talked about funding earlier. how many members? guest: we are now pushing 1 million members. we have had significant area from in that pierce morgan, who drove thousands of people to our website. very much, his behavior when i was on his program. it take to join?

guest: we do not have a set fee, but we encourage at least twenty dollars. host: aa gun owner from indiana. hi, doc. caller: i am retired law enforcement, and endowment member of the nra. i have been involved in guns all my life. i have been an instructor since 1985. two things that i really see that really bother me. one, the reason that this country has the valley ground is because the government tolerated. look at the other countries around us, they don't have the issues we do because they don't tolerated. secondly, if you look at the to disarm this country -- one of the things forget is the hey fact that the reason the united

states has been the powerhouse that we have been -- towards other countries that might us -- is ut invading because they know that they have more than the military to deal with. gun in my er seen a ever hurt anybody unless somebody picks it up to do so. it is a tool. it is no different than a hammer. guest: well, you pointed to the basic reason we have a second is, with an that armed populace, with the of the inherent to an right to be able protect oneself -- that also extends to either in invader, such as japan -- because they did invade, after all, hawaii. did not he way, they just bbomb it, they tried to invade it. the invasion was quickly broken

off in hawaii because we had guns. so, there you have a big reason for the second amendment. the second amendment. and then of course the other reason, and it is not popular to talk about it, is to keep the government at bay, because you do not want to do some of the the things that you may be thinking of. think about the situation at the bundy ranch and bunker bill, nevada. there we had federal agents with machine guns collecting what they thought was an overdue payment for grazing privileges owedthe rancher supposedly them. ok, go to court. we do not come in with scores of machine guns planning at the guy's family to collective an a legend and an at. armed americans went to the ranch and said you hurt him, we hurt you, get out.

you are onmorning, with larry pratt of gun owners of america. caller: let me tell you the because for that with a military base they got shut up. -- got shot up. guest: it was a military base, and i can understand the confusion because it was a gun free zone. that they would even say to the military we want you to put your life on the line when you're in afghanistan, but when you are here at foot hood, no, no, do not have a gun. that is the policy at every military organization in the u.s., no guns. did a"rolling stone" piece on larry pratt, says how the fear mongering, paranoid stoking director of the gun

owners of america remade the modern gun movement. quite a lengthy story, but they say toout what you might crowds and within your organization, what you might be saying to the "new york times" or c-span, and they write that you use familiar language ensuring constitutional rights, basically taking the point that you employees to track communication operation with admirable efficacy and consistency since launching this group 40 years ago. what you think about what "rolling stone" has been writing from you? guest: coming from them, we take that purple prose as a compliment. frankly we do not say anything different matter where we are. if i begin to a group at a rally, i would point to the same purpose of the second amendment that i have just outlined here. we think that the constitution needs to be defended and the

whole reason for the constitution needs to be explained to people because all too often in our schools it is not even taken up. if it is, it is presented in a very incorrect fashion. so we are trying to set the record straight. host: moving on to roger and like things in, north carolina on the independent line. also a gun owner. good morning. good morning. i'm glad i get to talk to, mr. pratt. the guy who is called back, one of the reasons we have never son invaded, this country is well armed without the military, but what i am wondering about with obama just taking executive illegal aliens, he may try to do the same thing with the second amendments. first off, i think everybody ought to be armed to protect themselves because i think when he to be protected more against our own government, and i think that is why all liberal democrats are trying to pass

these laws so they can disarm their people, for them to try to control them. when they do that, it will be a war . i feel like this government, we have now this administration, we are fighting a revolutionary war all over again because our government is almost like what we saw in the revolutionary war. thank you. guest: the administration's policy on an misty is quite stunning. senator lee pointed out a couple of days ago that all it takes who isillegal alien that children born under our law makes them a citizen come all they have to do is go across the border in canada and come back, and that sets him up on the road for a green card and ultimately citizenship. the survey data that i pointed to earlier then is going to kick in in a real important way that 85% of those folks are likely to vote anti-second amendment and

less we can reach them. that is one of the concerns we have a gun owners of america. personally quite bilingual. i speak spanish, speak it at home, and we have a concern that we reach out to hispanics and point out to them that the very kinds of policies that they might be inclined to vote for are the ones that were in place in their countries that they fled from that produced to be disasters and the unemployment and the brutality that they were fleeing from. we do not have the kind of brutality that they have suffered in so many of their countries south of our border because we have guns. host: kathy, marina, california, republican for larry pratt. are you there? caller: yeah, hi. going off of what you just said, there is a town nearby, actually there, a large town, and is a hispanic population there,

and they do have high crime, and there is a group of hispanics, i think they are calling themselves the revolutionaries or something like that, but they just want to have more rights and that kind of thing, and they are surprisingly against an effort to have more police on the streets. i would think they would want more police so that the people are not getting shot at and there is not as much being violence, but they really are against an effort of the local police department to get more enforcement on the streets, so it does not make any sense to me, so i was just going off of what you said. another thing people need to understand is president obama going off of the other comment -- i understand he has signed ing about gun control, which none of our presidents have in the past, but he did. everybody needs to understand -- inhat like in england

england, there is no guns. they took away all the guns quite a while ago. skyrocketed. of course gun crime went down because you cannot have a gun, but violent crime where grandma got assaulted and now cannot use her armor well because they cap roque and in five places, and so and so got her eyeball knocked -- in other words, that is the reality, and the democrats will not talk about it. it is not in the media. our second amendment gives our government and other governments ause like the gentleman said, hey, the citizens are armed. everything needs to understand also that we do need more mental health help in this country, children especially and young adults are more susceptible to even illnesses, physical illnesses can cause mental health problems.

everybody needs to not forget that the third reich used the gun roles to go and find the gun owners and take away the guns, so those are my comments. keep up the good work, larry, and that is it. guest: thank you. the matter about the presence of is police and how much crime suffered in a particular area, there is a direct relation. in fact, a study was done by a couple of professors at the university of chicago years ago, and subsequently that same data manyas made available to other researchers, and they all came to the same conclusion -- more guns, less crime. in fact in our own country, those jurisdictions that make it hard or illegal to have a gun, particularly to have one inside your home to be able to protect yourself, are the ones that had

the higher violent crime rates. so the data or they are. a lot ofply politicians who want to control us do not want us to be able to have guns, and this is something , as the caller segued to, happened in england. it is the fourth most violent crime ridden country in the world. it has a very low murder rate, but the incidence of violent crime is just through the roof. only jamaica, honduras, and el salvador have a higher violent crime rate than england, so it is clearly a failed policy, whether it is an island nation like england were theorem article he it would be harder to get guns into the nation, or .ike chicago, which is hostile host: let me read from "new york

times" opinion piece -- when it comes to stronger gun safety laws, all politics is increasingly local. last year they remind us the gun lobby generated a serious recall , successfully ousting to state lawmakers who helped enact tighter sales following our and sandy hook. far less attention last month to the surprising turnabout. two elected in the recall were promptly ejected in the midterms. he narrowly focused recall were unable to dominate in a higher turnout election. the result in colorado, an example of why gun lobbyists are changing their strategy. instead of lobbying on the hill, they are seeking stronger safety laws state by state and relying .ore directly on the public polls after all that the majority of americans favor more stringent gun-control measures. what do you think about state activity?

guest: what those gun-control advocates are saying is we have failed, so we have got to find a new pony to ride. they are trying to find some success in states. now, they did prevail in a referendum in washington state, and i think you are going to see happen in washington state what we have seen in connecticut and in new york where by the tens of thousands, gun owners have failed to comply, refused to comply with unconstitutional restrictions and requirements for registration imposed by the host -- imposed in those states by those legislatures. i think you will see the same thing in washington state. people are not going to go to a place where they have their gun registered when they want to gunsfer a gone from -- a from father to son, neighbor to neighbor. people are just going to refus ed. from we have a caller

massachusetts on the line, what is your name? caller: tanzania. host: go ahead. caller: when he to take a minute and think about this logically and holistically. i think no one is really keeping this together in order to look at this on a level of how are we going to coexist in america, the country that we love. i think of this in a way that some people are instigating a civil war because why are we arming ourselves against one another instead of dealing with this in a more sensible manner? all the crime that is occurring in america, all of the things that are happening, whether it be police abusing their power or civilians committing crimes with guns, i do not think that this is a situation where we need to start arming each other so that we can hurt one another.

i think there is another solution to our problems. thereon many issues that i hear on this television show, where some people are just afraid of orsiders coming in protecting themselves against criminal to want to -- against criminals who wants to assault them in some way. i am african-american, i do not have a weapon, but it seems as though the gun owners of america association, some of them are kkk members, so now i am wondering if this is going to be some kind of a civil, seeing that now african-american people are protesting so that we can be treated fairly, if now racist people are going to want to come in and start, you know, arming themselves against us, and we might have to want

to arm ourselves against them. this does not seem like a workable solution. host: all right, larry pratt. guest: the reason people own a gun is the reason most people get insurance on their homes -- they hope that the house is not going to burn down, but if god for bid that happens, then they want to have the insurance available to pay for the loss. it is the same thing when people buy a gun for self-defense. they are not looking for the opportunity to use it against somebody. in fact, the gun owners that i talk to, and i obviously talked to a lot of them, will tell me on many occasions they go out of their way to avoid a potentially dangerous situation. the last thing in the world a gun owner wants to do is to have to use his gun in self-defense because the legal swamp that he gets in is just going to ruin , but anot only his day good deal of the rest of his

life, so you have a take on gun owners that is may be something that you have been told by other people, but i'm glad you had a chance to call in and get straightened out because that is not the way that gun owners look at it. they are looking at being able to protect, not to be able to cause harm. host: one less call here for larry pratt, patricia, wisconsin, welcome. caller: yes, thank you for c-span. iam not a gun owner, however, am not for gun control, and i am happy to live in wisconsin, carrythey passed the . i have a lot of family members around the chicagoland area, and dears ago, chicago banne handguns in the city of chicago. the crime right is skyhigh, and if i'm not mistaken, they are the most dangerous city in the u.s.

guest: that is correct. caller: you take away the guns from all of the responsible people, and the only one that you end up with guns are the gang members, and there are many, many, many gangs in the city of chicago, and of course our around our country. who, then, can protect us? the police cannot be everywhere. can't, and asy sheriff david clarke, the sheriff of milwaukee county, wisconsin, has said, we will try quicklyt to be there as when you need help, but it might on a good day take us as many as five minutes depending on where we are when the call comes in, and he was pleading with people to get a gun to be able to protect themselves while they are waiting for the police to get there, and then he concludes his public service announcement saying -- we are in here

this together, and i count on you. pratt,ur guest is larry director of gun owners of america. appreciate your time this morning. guest: good to be here. thanks for having me. host: a reminder that tomorrow we will have a guess from the brady campaign, at 9:15 a.m. eastern time. we will take it raked of a couple of minutes in and we will open the phones. you can talk about whatever you would like for the last 40 minutes of the show. it could be about a guest we had today or recently or really anything in the news. the numbers to call on the screen there, (202) 748-8001, republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. and outside the u.s., we welcome you as well, (202) 748-8003. in the meantime, we will show you another tribute from a house .ember

this past week, many members of the house and senate have coming down and given final speeches, farewell speeches. they have also had tributes made to them. members this week in part pay tribute to a retiring member named ralph hall, the oldest ever house number at age 91. here's some of what members had to say about ralph hall. [video clip] >> we've had a number of congressmen come on the house floor intel anecdotes about anecdotesnd tell about ralph and how funny he was and how smart he was, and they are all, at least the ones about how smart he was, very true. aboutrd the urban myth weighing on bonnie and clyde, which i do not believe is true. we've heard about ted williams and ralph and ted playing on the same baseball team in world war ii. that is true. we have heard about the offer to serve as the promoter forecast as clay, who later became a home

at ali. that is true. a few more that you -- as the clay,er forecast he ir cassius who later became mohammed ali. that is true. heyou more of you know that worked for the previous owner of the dallas cowboys, and he was offered a job with the nfl, which he turned down. i knew ralph when i got elected in 1980 four. he and i served districts that touch each other. we both live in our districts in texas, and so we became good buddies because we were always on the first flight after the last vote to texas at the end of the week and on the last flight before the first vote to washington at the beginning of the week. and once we've built up enough frequent flyer miles, we used to fight when there was a complimentary upgrade. we never spent taxpayer dollars

first class, but we would always sit fight over seat 4h, and ralph always won. the only time i ever got the seat 4f on american airlines was when ralph was not on the plane. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we will round out this saturday edition of the "washington journal" with your calls. we are doing open phones. you can talk about anything you would like. many of our best today, the legislation on capitol hill, the march happening on washington, d.c. today, which we will have live in a couple of hours at 11:30 eastern time. here are the numbers, separate lines for republicans, democrats, independents outside the u.s. we will keep those numbers on the bottom of the screen as we move forward. here is one piece in the "new york times" to start things off about the debate over the $1

trillion spending package and really everything else happening on the hill as the senate tries to end the 113th congress. there is a picture of senator barbara mikulski, of maryland. the piece says the near collapse of a crucial government wide funding bill that now faces the senate test underscored a fundamental problem with congress -- the lost art of compromise. from doce's a quote hastings, he is retiring, house member from washington, republican

host: allowing party leaders to celebrate a compromise of sorts. though it does not appear to be a model for the future. according to the "new york times " piece to start us off here. larry, you are on the line from tuscaloosa, alabama. first call for open phones. hey, larry. caller: hey, how are you doing? i wanted to annotate something to you all. the guest of that you had on a few minutes ago that was dealing with gun control -- host: larry pratt. caller: yes. in other words, he kind of tee - -teed on your head and called it rain water. for good, texas, i lived in -- fort hood, texas, i lived in killeen, you are allowed weapons to carry.

i do not know where he is getting that from, but that is not true. sharpton, id how want to tip my hat off to you, but i want you to understand something -- you not only have to get them out of the march, but you have to get them out of the polling place. the reason why so many of these cops are getting off when it comes to blacks and whites is because of the grand jury. are stacking at the grand jury, and when you have got whites against blacks, and you jurists eight grandeu sitting up there and three black, you know what? host: let there from richard in oklahoma. what is on your mind this saturday morning? caller: a little background of myself. i am a member of the nra, and i'm also a member of gun owners of america. what i wonder is -- does the

american people realize that gun control has nothing to do with guns? host: tell us more. what do you mean by that? caller: well, gun control is nothing to do with guns, it has to do with controlling the american people. host: do you want to keep going? i guess not. richard is done. darcy is calling from portland, oregon. hey, dorothy. hi. you are on the air. caller: oh, ok. yes, i was listening to this mr. pratt, and he seems to -- he did not have any solutions. he seems to be promoting civil unrest, taking over the government, and what he is promoting plays into what the congress is doing at this time, the way it is d funding and undermining the country. this is a, seems to be a nationwide move on behalf of the

ruling class, who now seems threatened, you know, that their power is being taken from them, but it would seem to me that what they are promoting is the same thing that hitler promoted, and then they want to turn and say that they are christians and they are good and they are not after anybody, but every example i heard them give was examples of black people, you know, ferguson, and thugs and all those code words, and they are teaching their children to do that. you know, one day, we are all going to have to answer to god, and that man, for him to do what he is doing, he has lost his conscience. we saw before tonight a man who has lost his soul, and that is a shame. host: thanks for calling. let's hear from tonya in martinsburg, virginia. hi, tonya. caller: i have two brief issues.

one is i am a 59-year-old african in west virginia. i live in the woods. i don't want nobody trying to take my guns from me because you never know what i am going to see in my backyard. if anybody tries to come to my door, i pick up my gun first, then i pick up the phone and call 911, and the second thing is i admire elizabeth warren. deal -- they are theg to -- north korea, 28th sentencing hour, and then the obama administration is going to push that through like going tond it is pass, and nobody can challenge the north koreans -- the north koreans cannot change the law. if they want to fight for more money like the chinese people do

for the north koreans who make they are never going to be able to change their laws so that they can try to have a middle-class life, and that will interfere with the sovereignty of the united states. host: two i for calling, tonya. for calling, tonya. we will get more input. it will be a busy day in washington and for those of us covering it as well. at 11:30, two hours from now, the justice were all march that reverend al sharpton talked 45 minutesfor earlier. it is at 11:30 eastern live on c-span. reverend sharpton is join the families of eric garner, michael andn, tamir rice, trayvon martin. 11:30arch will begin at at freedom plaza in washington, d.c., and they will basically walk up pennsylvania avenue.

we will have all of that for you live. it should end at about 3:00 or maybe 3:15 or so. over on c-span2 starting an income of the u.s. senate, yes, the senate and on a saturday, and might turn out to be in extraordinary day. senator reid has teamed up involving nominees and a whole host of other issues involved in the day today as they try to wrap up the 113th congress at some point in the next few days. we taped an interview earlier in bolton ofg with alex fulto the hill. good morning um alex. guest: good morning. host: what is the current issue with nominees and why is that stalling every thing on the senate floor? guest: senate majority leader harry reid wants to move a batch of about 20 nominees. he has been saying for weeks that these nominees are going to

get done in the lame-duck, and the republicans do not want to provide any expedited consideration. now, the democrats have their votes because they changed the president a year ago. they only need a simple majority to get these guys pass, and they have a, but republicans are not core operating. they are not giving back any time, so that means we are going to have votes throughout the day today, perhaps as many as 40 procedural votes, and it is just -- it does not really -- it is just pettiness. in the words of one senior aide, these nominees are going to pass anyway. harry reid said he was going to vote on them, but republicans do not want to speed it up, so we will be voting throughout the day, and starting at noon and possibly going until 1:00 a.m. sunday morning when the senate is going to take up the spending bill. host: talk to us about the spending bill itself.

what was in that legislation is still problematic? guest: well, on a democratic side of the aisle, what lawmakers do not like is this provision that would soften the 2010. frank wall street reform bill. it would get rid of the prohibition on fdic insured trading risky derivatives, and elizabeth warren, the senator from a statistics, has been leading the charge on that. she says that by allowing government-backed banks to trade these risky derivatives, which warren buffett called financial weapons of mass destruction, you put taxpayers on the hook for future dell outs. she was to strip out that provision, and she has cosponsored with senator david it will not likely get a vote. on the republican side of the outcome of senator jeff sessions of alabama and ted cruz of texas are objecting to the president

of the executive order deportations on immigration that he made just after the election. they say that this bill should defund that executive action, and they are pushing an amendment that would do that, at least sessions is. that is not going to get a vote, either, so it provides a great opportunity for democrats and republicans to make their points loudly. it would probably get more attention if a government shutdown were imminent, but i do not think that is quite a happen. host: some other legislative items out there as the senate tries to wrap up the year -- what are they? guest: in addition to the omnibus, the spending bill, you have a package of so-called texas miniatures. this would extend -- a tax expenditures. this would extend, a one-year extension.

the chairman of the finance committee try to get a two-year extension, and perhaps even make some of those tax breaks permanent, but that is not go anywhere, so we are looking at a of providedension tax breaks, popular on both sides of the aisle, and it will certainly be approved whenever comes to the floor. in addition, a little more complicated is you have the risk insurance act. the house passed that an attested to language softening dodd frankfrank -- reform bill. what they are looking to do is amend and pass it before year's end. because there is a lot of work, it looks like the senate will be back in session next week barring some miracle today that will get these things resolved to unanimous consent. a very busy agenda, no doubt, alex bolton.

anything we should be looking for today, tomorrow, into next week echo ? guest: one of the things the senate democratic leader's office was highlighting is the split between ted cruz and mitch mcconnell. the democrats thought that they were going to get a deal to post one all of this work until monday, and they thought that mcconnell was on board with it, but then ted cruz objected, so basically what harry reid is saying is that cruz is mcconnell, o forcing them to work through the weekend. watch what cruz is saying carefully as he pushes for a vote on a controversial point of order objecting to obama's order on deportations, how many shots is he going to take at his own party's leadership for not fighting harder against what he calls amnesty? .ost: thanks for the insight alexander bolton is the senior

reporter for the hill, appreciate your time on this saturday morning. guest: thanks for helping me. -- having me. host: again, the senate live on c-span two. 2. "star-ledger" in new jersey -- the $1o senate -- passed trillion budget. also from the "l.a. times," a left turn from obama. they write here that for much of the last six years, liberal democrats in congress have been loyal soldiers for their often .npopular president they go on to talk about members of his own party suggest democrats on the left may be marching in a new direction through all of this. the "l.a. times" writes that this morning. philip, fort worth, texas, republican caller. hi, there. caller: hi.

there is just so much hate going on, and i wrote something that is the opposite about that i wanted to share with everybody. it is called the truth that phil sees. it goes -- beauty is in the eyes that see, joy is in the years that hears, the truth is not something softly spoken, the heart is what keeps it near. two hands are used to make the sign that cause it from above, no matter how many times it is alled, it fits just like glove. that is because it is love. the truth is god loves us all. he's love is true love, and gave it to us all to share. he did not make it sparingly, he made enough for all, just as he made the world, the heavens, and of course his only begotten son, jesus christ. host: caller, apply all of that to everything we have been talking about this morning. caller: well, i think everybody needs to stop yelling and start

listening and get together and look at what we have got going together and what we have all built together. instead of all of this other stuff. host: thank you, philip. kay is calling from pennsylvania, a democrat. what is on your mind? caller: a lot of things. i listened to reverend al sharpton and the last gentleman from gun owners of america. i am action a from fort jackson, south carolina. i am on the base. i am generation military. my husband is an african-american who retired from the military. we have grandkids in the military. we are upset that people: with what i think is misguided information, saying that you can't have guns on fort hood. i heard guns from my hotel room. the twisting in the manipulation of facts. one of the most aborted things i

think i learned from college is i can prove my point by including or excluding anything that does not fit my thing. if it goes to my point, then i included. an exampleis there this way that illustrates your point? out charm listened to them, then the gun owner guy gunan, he is from north -- owner guy came in, and he is from north philadelphia originally, and how to the gun owners of america feel about all of the black folks and all of the big cities? my landlord is a republican. he is a really decent guy, and he argues with registering his gun. i registered my car, i pay a tax on my car, i have licensed my car, but you can't assume that everybody is a responsible gun owner. you can't. host: ok, viewpoint of kay, mentioning both of our guests, larry pratt of gun owners of america and the reverend of al

sharpton. if you miss those segments, go to c-span.org, and you can see them right there, watch them anytime you want. alex, manchester, new hampshire, independent caller. hi, alex. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to address kay and sharon about the manipulative patient -- about the munich laois and --- the manipulation of facts. did existree zone at fort hood. period. the kkk,entioning shame on you. and the other woman who guns,iated nazis with sorry i am breaking up, but i'm very irritated. the demographic are -- the democratic firearms bill is a most word for word the nazi guns.

so shame on them for bringing in nazis and kkk for responsible gun owners. host: another story from "the hill," indiana republican marlin assessment -- susman republican marlin says he was duped after leadership told him they planned to yank the massive measure and replace it with a more palatable short-term funding bill. vote prove crucial to the bill posey passage late thursday night given the procedural vote passed by a one-vote margin. had notman and kerry switch to yes, the entire package would have been defeated. he said i supported the role because i was convinced that cr

omnibus would have been defeated. he said he was duped by his own leaders. calling from birmingham, alabama now. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. tour.n a 50 capital city i am on a birmingham city council here in alabama. we are considering legislation to outlaw toy guns in the city of alabama, received quite well by the public safety chairman, spot there on to the washe park where tamir rice killed, and we smashed a number of guns. america is such a gun culture and violence, the culture is so

inundated with us. i am a former gang member myself. had as ang that i 18-year-old, and then to see these little gun stats one of the guns we collected and our collection, one of him was on -- why in the world we have guns for kids echo what purpose do they really serve? my thing is not to fight mr. pratt. matter fact, the news picked up what he was doing in ohio, columbus, and our people really came, but i am just an honest citizen that hopes for a 22nd and 23rd century where we may be a gutless culture -- a gunless culture. host: traveling around to many cities? caller: yes, 50, we started in

cleveland -- host: what is your group? ue.ler: outcast -- leag host: how are you paying for all the traveling you are doing? caller: people are giving contributions, and i do quite well myself, personally. clevelandvan up to and a sledgehammer, collected guns. thank god gas is down, so it makes it very viable for us to go. we will be in mug summary on the 27th, then onto -- we will be in montgomery on the 27th, then onto tallahassee, all 50 capitals, and then we will come back with a boycott because we understand the nra is going to have money, so like dr. king used the boycott, that is why we launched our event and pushed on december 1. host: thanks for sharing the

update there. eric is from herndon, virginia now. hi, eric. caller: hey, how is it going? thank you for c-span. i just want to say that the gentleman from the gun owners of america, the -- host: eric, can you pause for just a second and turn the sound down on your set? we will be able to hear you much better. caller: can you hear me now? guest host:host: much better, g, eric. guest: what a lot of people do not understand is they think that more gun control in equal's they do notgs, but seem to understand that criminals do not follow the law. you cannot stop the criminal to follow the law, so more losses not going to, you know, be a arm more, so if we

law-abiding citizens, then we will have less crime. do you agree? host: well, this show is for you to the callers, not for us agree or disagree, but we thank you for sharing your opinion. we have about 15 minutes left in the program. in case you missed the news, this is out of the "richmond times dispatch." at least 10 years and thought for former governor bob mcdonnell of virginia. under federal sentencing guidelines as determined by the u.s. probation office. a source familiar with the guideline range included in a presentence investigation report filed on the second, confirmed the figures reported friday in the "post," mcdonald and his wife, maureen, were convicted host: this was the big public

corruption case that we watched play out in the news media. the lead story in the "washington post" -- reporter will not be forced to testify. attorney general eric holder says he will not forsake "new to release reporter a source in the trial of jeffrey sterling, former cia official accused of leaking classified information. they go on to say that with the deadline approaching, holder has told prosecutors that while they subpoena,request a they cannot require any information but the identity of his source according to one person familiar with holder's position in the "washington post story., the lead natasha, thank you for hanging on. you are in troy, michigan, democratic caller.

caller: hi. i would like to challenge c-span to a vote of your listeners. this is not what i called about, but this is something that has for a numberg me of years. i work out of my home, so i have the luxury of listening to c-span. in addition to that, i guess you could call me a c-span junkie. years ago, whenever you had guests, you had both sides appearing at the same time. in that case, a lot of things that people said, truth or half-truths were almost immediately corrected. that is not the case right now. what particularly upset me -- two things. the mr., i sorry, don't owners of the world -- host: larry pratt. heler: larry pratt, yes, said when he was talking about

the farmer out in the west, who raise cattle, and finally the federal government when out to collect money to my happen to have a relative who is in law enforcement in that area. that farmer has been breaking the law for a number of years. he allowed his cattle to graze on several lands. now, that is permissible, and they charge him a very nominal fee. this man refused to to be at for a number of years, and that is why they went out with the federal officers to try to collect that, so that is not but yout he said, didn't have someone else there to challenge that. someone onll have the brady campaign on tomorrow. i know you wanted to see them at the same time perhaps, but to natasha and anyone else that is watching, watch tomorrow. we will have a representative of the brady campaign on as well.

we moved to john now in st. louis, independent caller. good morning. i would like to speak in regards of the $1.1 trillion spending bill that the congress is working on. i would like to say that i believe in all fairness to the a 1603-pageple, but bill should be read and have more time to consider before just passing through very quickly. i think that no one person we can say is writing this bill, and they do not even know what is in it. host: what is an appropriate amount of time to let a bill said before it action gets a vote in terms of the reason you are talking about? caller: i am not sure of an appropriate amount of time, but i think more time than just a few hours or a few days, i think that these of senators and representatives ought to write these bills themselves, without legalese jargon to the american people. host: do you ever read one of

these yourself, or do you rely on the news media? caller: i have read them myself, and i believe that a lot of it is very jumbled. again, they really do not know what they are including in this legislation, and they just press it through as fastest possible in order to just ease tensions between political parties or whatever the agendas might be. states, itto our own may be wise to have a televised broadcast of activities, including in our own state governments. i believe all the states should have a c-span type of, you know, program so that citizens of that state can also hear what is going on in their own state governments. do, john. of them thank you for quality. gail is on the line from montgomery, texas. you are on the air. caller: i want to make a

comment. i have tried to write to different newscast people. months ago, my husband and i were watching a news broadcast, and there was a pakistan leader that the news was saying that he should be in jail, but he was still not in jail. the guy that was standing behind him had a patch on his jacket, and the patch was that new verizon logo that president obama has ran on an different functions that he speaks that, he shows that logo. rifles crossed over that past, and i paused the television, and i told my husband i said, look at that. is is why where wet -- that why we are where we are with this president. i want to make a second comment -- i do not think the black americans understand that the kkk was formed by the democrats, and they would go in during the

night, take the guns away from the black people, and in the next night they would go and kill them. that is in history. host: let's move on to wesley, milwaukee, wisconsin. go ahead. caller: yes, i am calling in because i feel like nobody wants to say that the incident in ferguson -- to me it was not just a cop murdering. hello? host: you are on the air. caller: i feel like it was just a cop murdering. i feel like it was an execution held in the streets, and that is what upset the people so much false up a got to see firsthand what an execution looks like. i think that darren wilson got upset because michael attempted to resist him, and when michael brown said ok, ok, ok, i think that is when darren wilson made his mind up that ok, nothing. host: wesley, what would you

like to see different about the overall system? so much has been talked about in recent months. caller: i would like first of all for the president, obama, and the black leadership like al sharpton to let the people know that we need more black police. we need to educate our blacks to go to school and become cops. when obama first got income a 15-year-old would be a 21-year-old right now, eligible to be a car. we have to -- eligible to be a cop. we have to police our people. host: all right, wesley, thank you for sharing your thoughts. kathy is up next will stop what is on your mind, kathy? caller: people are not really stepping up and being responsible for their kids, which i blame it on the government, too, because they took parents' control out of their hands. host: what are you talking about in terms of an example? a kid: like, you have got

that cuts up in school, and what is the first thing they want to do? instead of busting their h aey, they want to put them on controlled substance full stop have you ever watched tyler perry, madea? we could learn a lot from that. host: what does this mean to the country we live in? caller: that we should go back to a long time ago the way it used to be. when i was growing up, we had guns in the house and we knew that if we touch them guns, we ends busted. hind if we did something wrong in the public, when we got home, we will be responsible for our own actions. host: all right. jason on the line, little elm, texas. democratic caller. caller: yes, can you hear me? host: yes, sir, go ahead.

caller: ok. i am thinking back now to the days when i used to call c-span, which was before 9/11, and then 9/11 happened, and i remember watching the movie "hannibal," there was a scene where the main character is feeding a corrupt fbi agent his own brain, and when i thought i seen it occurred to me that if you have three al qaeda guys and one of them is not willing to talk, you could let the others watch him eating his own brain and may be than would be willing to talk. this is what i thought would be a good idea right after 9/11. it is not surprising that we decided to torture people, but that does not excuse us, any of us. may beall responsible

the only solution is for no one who was alive and voting backbend to serve on the jury when we have trials of the people responsible as we must in order to remain a country devoted to the rule of law. host: that was jason calling from texas. turk on the line now from ohio, republican caller. good morning to you. caller: good morning. host: what would you like to say? protesting are these protesting the parents of these kids that are letting them use these toy guns like the row guns , knowing that they are going to , you know, charged as if having a real gun. the kids are going to react as if it is a real gun. the kid in the store did not just grab it off of the shelf,

he had to take it out of the packaging and wave it around. the man that was shot that had begun in the park, he had to make that gun look like a real gun. he had to take the bright orange tip off of it. and another thing that i would can'to say is the police arrest anyone until after a crime has been committed. if it is so safe in this country, why do the police have to have automatic weapons? host: that was turk from ohio. bill, mount vernon, ohio, independent caller. caller: how are you doing? host: doing well, how are you? caller: pretty good. the other caller was calling and talking about police and the brutality anything with ferguson i have heardll, lots of good suggestions from everybody, and i believe that while the police were required

to study and learn the constitution and the bill of things,nd a few other the dictionary, the 16 american jurisprudence, they would know that the constitution is the law of the land. host: you think that would make a difference you folks, police on the ground? caller: well, yeah. if they understood what they were fighting for and what laws are actually true because if they really knew what they were fighting for in the history of the country they were serving in, that they would be a lot better police officers all around. the: all right, we got point, bill, thank you for calling.

we want to hear from p from mississippi, republican caller. good morning, pete. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: i am doing fine, sir. caller: one thing that i think is missing in this ferguson and all these police shooting deals -- the black population is 14% of america. 14% of american population is black. they made 85% of the violent crimes going to crime statistics, so whatever police are going into a black neighborhood for anything, they are basically going into a war zone. that is their mentality when they go into those areas, so i can see how a kid with a fake gun gets shot. if that is not know real or not. he is only trying to protect the people around there, so that is just my comment around bad. host: that is peak, the last word from stockstill, mississippi. thanks everyone who called this morning for open phones and our

guests. we will be back tomorrow as we are everyday for another edition of "washington journal." we will be up at 7:00 eastern time for more calls. our guest segments include -- [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] host: they will talk about the report released earlier about the see ia interrogation practices will step tomorrow, tim murphy, the congressman, republican from pennsylvania, he will be one of our guests, the cochair of the mental health caucus. this is on the second anniversary of the newtown, connecticut school shootings. he will talk about the national conversation of mental health access in this country. and then at 9:00 a.m. eastern is jonathan lowy of the brady center. another view to pair with what we had today with larry pratt of the gun owners of america. he will talk about congress and advocacy groups since the shootings at sandy hook. that is tomorrow's "washington journal.

" we hope you enjoy the rest of your day-to-day, and we will see you back here tomorrow. ♪ } >> coming up today here on on pan, a house hearing combating isi. take you to the justice from march. that event being organized by several civil rights groups, of of rpton, and the families michael brown. capitol hill today, the senate will be in session beginning at noon eastern.