ro rainwater hit it, turned into asset, it went into our creeks, they shut down the gold mines. when that shutdown, the canadians folded up and went home. i just don't trust the canadians. that was the last comment on transcanada and how they have acted over the course of getting the xl pipeline approved. aret: certainly, there landowners who are upset with transcanada, but i want to be clear that they will be subject to all of the laws that american companies are thinking that happens. that said, there is one level of , which is thatrn

there is some evidence that they don't pay into the trust fund and that has a lot of environmentalists upset. they want to be assured that these companies will pay. host: we appreciate you coming on to talk about this, and obviously a topic that will be talking about early on in the next congress. comes onyochi dreazen to talk about his new book "the indivisible -- "the invisible front. taking your calls on the police shooting over the weekend in new york. we will be right back. ♪

look at the programs you will find christmas day on the c-span networks. holiday the city start at 10:00 a.m. with the lighting of the national christmas tree, followed by the white house decorations with first lady michelle obama and the lighting of the capitol christmas tree. and just after 11:30 p.m., celebrity -- 1230 p.m., celebrity activist talk about their causes. florida governor jeb bush on the bill of rights and founding fathers.

c-span2 steven pinker at 10:00 a.m. theoon, fashion experts on first ladies fashion. and then at 10:00, former nbc news anchor tom brokaw on his more than 50 years of reporting on world events. for a complete schedule, go to www.c-span.org. flex "washington journal" continues. host: yochi dreazen joins us now, author of the new book the invisible front: love and loss

in an era of endless war. ofwas recently named one "new york times" best books of the year. it focuses on one family, but also focuses on the grapple -- grappling with ptsd. guest: he was an army officer who thought he would be an post-vietnam and was in for 34 years. jeff was the oldest, and he wanted to father -- although his father into the military. allhighest form of duty was he ever wanted to do. his brother, kevin, was more of an introvert. he was shyer and a bit more general -- gentle. he wanted to be in the military, too, but he wanted to be a doctor. but this is the life they chose. they want to follow their father and they wanted to serve.

that is what led them into the rotc program in kentucky and what led jeff to iraq, and what unfortunately in many ways let kevin to his death. host: how did the two brothers die? tost: they were making plans play golf one morning. jeff is about to get commission into iraq. kevin didn't show up. jeff began to worry. asked his sister to knock on the door. the three of them were very close and were roommates. no knocked on the door and answer. she open the door and found him hanging from the ceiling. he was suffering from depression. when know later, jeff was in iraq. he was leading a foot patrol in falluja. he was leading from the front and thought something glistening near a bridge and turn to tell his men to stay back. just as he did, he exploded.

and another died with him. one brother died by suicide and another regulator was killed. how were their deaths seen and talked about -- talk about how their deaths were seen and bookd about in your regarding the issues of mental health and ptsd. guest: with kevin, who committed suicide, many in his own family thought he said and violated god's law by taking his own life. it was not covered up by the family, but a small affair. when jeff died, it was kentucky news across the state of kentucky. the legislature had flags at half mast. hundreds at the cemetery. the full military honors with a general on the disney -- on ended me. knee.ded

when given died, it was almost like his life was not talked about. he was erased out of the picture. visit to talk about a china in the book. father in the family, and how they were able to move forward after the death of their two sons cannot talk about them. guest: i've known them for five years. they become extra ordinarily close to me. even now, i wonder sometimes how they get out of debt. after having lost not one, but two children, how do they get out of that? and when they lost kevin and then lost jeff, for them, the question was, how do we possibly when our life choices may have led to the deaths. for mark, he was haunted by the fact that if he had not been in the military, maybe kevin and jeff would not have a legitimate. if he had not signified that he

one of them to be in the military, they would have chosen different paths. and that will be with him until the day he dies. and for carol, she said, might son was -- my son was common to me for help. if i have followed the little breadcrumbs, i would have seen. and what she carries is that she did not see the signs. mark led the evacuation of new orleans after hurricane katrina. fighting out ways of suicide in the military. the way that the cultural interchange -- needed to change in how its opportunities to -- how it saw ptsd. host: kevin died almost 12 years ago. how far has the military come in that time in grappling with these issues are -- these ye issues you guest: there is a

willingness to see these issues as real. there's money being spent in the way it was not things that before. doctors are being hired by the thousands. what you have not seen is the generals at the top of this hierarchy, and obviously, the military is the general definition of hierarchy. you do not see general sitting forward saying my career did not suffer. them worried that they will be seen as weak. for kevin, he took himself off of his medication. he was about to be commission an officer and had one more summer of rotc. he said, if they find out on medication, my crew will be over before it starts to stop people around you will see we as weak. and that has not gone away. , the authordreazen

of "the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war." he will be with us for about the next hour here on the "washington journal." the numbers are on the screen. special line for active and retired military members, or members of their family. stories,o hear your especially in this hour of the washington journal. and yochi dreazen, i want to hear your story from these issues in dealing with your time in war zones. thet: i covered iraq for wall street journal and lived in baghdad for several years. when i came back on my new that was off. i'm in the there was something about me that was not the same as when i left. i would have a flash of anger as i was given at that table at a restaurant. i would wake up and not be able to fall back asleep.

i very disturbing nightmares. i be up in the middle of the night and just be up. long time, a long time to accept that this was ptsd. that this was not something that i could just put my mind to and think my way through it. one reason why i was drawn to the book and one reason why i was able to write it was that the issues of many veterans, they are similar. i was hearing explosions and seeing the same sites. not likening a journalist to someone who has to fighting combat, but in terms of what you experience and what you live, it's similar. and many were correspondents are reluctant to seek help. the stigma is exactly the same. talk about the history of this stigma in past wars as well. there is no question that ptsd from therkest legacy vietnam war.

it's one of the dangerous things about ptsd. you can be fine, psychologically, for decades. but it's simmering there. it's this darkness inside you that you do not see. and suddenly, 20, 30 years later it flares up and be devastating. it can be drinking heavily, taking drugs, killing yourself. and with ptsd now, the estimates 500,000een 350,000 to of the current veterans of this war have ptsd. that is not take into account the other 1.5 million that could develop ptsd over time. you immediately know it's there. with ptsd, you often don't and you cannot see it and you will not for quite a long time.

we are not anywhere near knowing how high the cost of that is. host: again, if you are active military or family member of active military, a special line set aside for you. otherwise, the standard lines are all the same. if you have a question or comment as we are talking about this. kevin worrying about ending his military career before it started, and that is why he stopped his medication. can members of the military today take medication people know they are dealing with these issues without fear of losing their jobs or careers? guest: in many ways, it has gone to the other extreme, which is just as dangerous in my mind. right now, the medical health system is so overwhelmed that you go and say i need help often what you get is a prescription, because the doctors just on time to give you suck electoral --

psychological counseling. the military in its wisdom and put the base of the valley lament in range and the taliban controlled the top. they would rock -- rocket this base after day, week after week. every one of the people there xanax, ambien, zoloft, and because no one was watching with they were taking, they will be taking nine xanax instead of 3, 6 ambien instead of one. they had prescriptions, but they were taking them and dosages way beyond what you should. there is a risk to taking medication. there is a risk to coming off of it. when they come back, the risk one was stopping entirely. yes, you can get medication and military allows you to have it, but in many ways, they are giving you to often and in dosages letter way too high and too way too many people. carol, which he knew her son had some problems in the book, you talk about her looking

for a psychiatrist, who took the , but beingi-care worried about being turned down, has the military system changed to make it easier to seek help on the front and? it's a very good point that you raise. it is a bit better. there are thousands or doctors than even just keep -- couple of years ago. there are more resources. there are more people there and more the ability -- more of the ability to usual insurance card and to get help, but the stigma is still there. even if you have the ability to get help, it might make you reluctant to seek it. that is the most dangerous part of this by far. host: what would be your recommendations as the one who has gone through it personally, who is a lot of time with his family and dealt with it. what would be your recommendation to get rid of the stigma? guest: two things.

the first is the human one. i spoke to happen doesn't generals that i knew from afghanistan or iraq personally and all of them describe ptsd. in the military, they leave off because if you call it a disorder, it is a sickness. but there were flashes of anger, of all, inability to sleep. -- alcohol, inability to sleep. -- until youral have a senior generals stand up and say, look at this. and then talk about it. we need a cultural change. we've heard--host: the president talk about this issue. it just hasn't gotten to the generals is what you are saying? too,: they talk about it, but not personally. they talk about it probably is a subject, which matters, but not as much as a general that a

soldier can look up to and say, that specific guy, he went through it and thought it and he lived it. you have not seen that. and you're not think people get promoted because they have mental health well in their units. ton you look at what leads someone getting promoted, this is not something that is looked at. you see that change, the culture within the military will not change either. the phone lines are open. i wanted to -- some phone calls -- i want to get to some phone calls as well. and also the line for retired members of the military. clifford, thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. i'm a u.s. air force retired vietnam veteran. and i just want to comment that your guests made a very good point, that ptsd is not just the type of disease that shows up on one of those -- i'm one of those

cases. it was able to quit working -- it was not until i was able to quit working and stopped drinking that i realized that what i have been doing with self-medicating. i did go to the v.a. and was diagnosed with chronic ptsd. and that was 24 years after the fact. i want the veterans to know there are people out there. we have a group of vietnam monthns that meets once a with a psychiatrist. and we hammered out between ourselves, because we have the stories to tell. any veterans out there that have come back and they are having problems, please know that there are veterans out there that want to help. that is my comment. host: thanks for sharing your story. yochi dreazen, any comment? guest: first, thank you for your service, clifford.

i think what he's talking about is very heroic. many veterans only feel comfortable talking to others in the world because they feel a zillion just cannot understand. a civilian did not go through the war i went through. cannotvilian just understand. a civilian did not go to the war i went through. they might let their guard down and trust us of the person more than a civilian. seeking help is a wonderful thing. them to, encouraging talk to other veterans is fantastic. thank you for making a point. caller: charles is on the line retired military. charles is on: the line for retired military. caller: i'm a first in color. i spent two years in the air force as a pj. i came back and i had no idea

about ptsd, and i was a medic. i guess i was having symptoms of to that point, and in 2002, me and my wife got into an argument and i became so angry i ended up breaking her arm. and i had never been arrested in my life. system. the court but the good thing was that i was able to go to the v.a. for treatment. i was in the chicago v.a. side, which was hospital everye day. we had group and all of that stuff. they put you on your meds and all that stuff. you're coming in and talking to a psychiatrist. enter in a group. -- and you are in a group. i've heavily medicated at the time, but now less.

i still feel the depression and i sit at home sometimes and i think about death more than i ever have thought about it. start feeling like, i'm tired. and things are just not important. you want to be isolated and they in the house. sometimes i don't even want to be around people. -- you want to be isolated and stay in the house. sometimes i don't want to be around people. and i got through two divorces. it is just, it is really something. host: we appreciate you sharing your story. kind of told he describes is all too common, both in terms of not recognizing it for decades after, but also acts of violence towards those you love, toward strangers,

toward yourself. what he was talking about, and that was painful to listen to, of feeling isolated and not wanting to leave his house and feeling by himself, that is one of the worst things about this. you may have family and friends who love you, people who are there that want to help, but you don't want to talk to them. talkf the people that i about in the book talks about how when he came back, he felt sort of transfigured by the violence. he felt like he was a different person, and that he should not be near rigid people because he would infect them. there was something almost contagious about what he had seen and done. he pulled himself away from those who loved him. you have some who come back and do not have a support system, and some people who come back and they do, but they do not want to talk the people they love for fear of hurting them, or just that they feel there's something wrong with themselves that this person might catch. host: on suicides in the military, the color referring to suicidal.

-- suicidal thoughts. today, -- i also want to bring up the national suicide prevention lifeline number that we have 1-800-273-talk. we have a line for military and their family, and also the regular lines open. a comment from edwin on twitter, who says that as a military vietnam veteran, the v.a. no -- the v.a. would not help us with our ptsd then, and i don't see much improved today.

and monti asks on twitter, do those suffering from ptsd represent a threat to society ?ucca -- to society and to the second question first, i think that they can call and say yes, i have it. a lot of people will say, a veteran is a ticking time on. i may hire someone and five years now, tenures now, he may go nuts. veterans have a hard time getting a job because many zillions are scared of them. we live in a time where ptsd is talked about more, which is a good thing. a lot of the stigma around it, even in our civilian world is not there, which is a very good thing also but the downside is you have a lot of veterans with for the rest of the life will have to say to employers, people they meet, people they date, i'm not damaged.

don't look at me like i'm damaged. don't think that i am a time down -- timebomb. it is a difficult thing to get past. the second person on twitter very accurately flagged. there are more resources. one thing that is heartbreaking, and a want to get back to your numbers for the people to put in perspective. more people have died from afghanistan, by a wide margin. typically veterans? guest: typically active duty and veterans. that one year was horrific for the military for one reason. up to that point in the suicide rate was rising, but the military can say accurately that , while bad,ate was less than than the civilian world. 2009 was the first year where the military rate was higher than the civilian rate. and since then, the margin has

gotten bigger and bigger. it's not just that it's growing more than people in war, it's that it killed more than afghanistan. 3000 as compared to 2500. this time last year, that was the worst year. and the year before that was the worst year will stop -- the worst year. that we areng is nowhere near the top for suicides, even with iraq over and afghanistan winding down. we are not the top of this. we are still climbing. host: here's a picture of mark and carol graham from 2009 hold in the folder flag that they received after the death of their two sons. we are talking about in the book with yochi dreazen, an author .nd an -- and managing editor margo is on the line for

democrats. old wound,s is an but my uncle peter was very dear to me was in the second world war, and his -- he was in at the very end of the war. warwife enrolled him in the because she wanted him to die. it was terrible. he was a train engineer. he would go into the northern part of france, and that is where the soldiers were dying toward the end of this, just i all over the place. he would come out of that area with potties -- bodies piled high in his trains. they would go to the coast and take the bodies out and he would go back and forth. it tore him apart. when i was little girl, i was the only one who he was -- he would talk to. he would tell me about this every time we would get together. and i never realized how important was that he talked to me. i was sort of the only one he

would talk to and that is it. it's amazing, margo, that you were there to listen to him and a lot of the veterans of that era would not trust anybody. we think of the and of world war -- the men of world war ii, and it was phenomenally met even though there were women fighting. generation, during the war, half a million soldiers were kicked out for psychiatric issues. even his greatest generation, half a million troops were kicked out during the fighting because they could not function anymore. there is a scene from a book by a veteran named eb sledge who fought in some of the worst fighting in the pacific. extraordinary, harrowing, heartbreaking book. these are battle hardened marines. one of them gets up to just decides to charge for -- charge toward the japanese position where he would die instantly and he is pulled down by a sergeant.

and he says to the officer, who is much anger, at some point you just break. you just can't take it anymore. i think margo, when she is talking about the pain of her family, the pain that this man carried, the fact that he could only tell it to one person, it's a reflection that this is something that is with for the rest of your life. host: and the scene margot about youre me think book, when they are transporting bodies in helicopter in the first gulf war. guest: that's right. that was his first exposure to death. he was flown to the staging area in kuwait. and when the helicopter landed, he makes -- they said, you might if we fly cargo back with you -- do you mind if we fly cargo back to and did not tell them what it was. and it was soldiers. it was his sixth -- his first

exposure to death and it shook him deeply. up to that point, he had not seen what does look like a close. unfortunately, he got much more exposure to it. he led the evacuation of new orleans after katrina. all of the tv stuff and mark did the work, and pointt point -- and one he went into the city and saw bodies and dead animals floating in the water and it was worse than what it seen in combat. but that first helicopter ride was his first glimpse into what death look like a close. host: tony on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i'm curious, i'm a veteran of the korean war, and it was for cold, andar .e lost most 50,000 guys i was an infantry riflemen.

i was diagnosed with anxiety. they did not have ptsd at the time. have no problems with it, you know, just the usual stuff. was there more then than now, or or is there something in the way we live that causes us to be worse at this time? do you know anything about that? guest: it's a great question and it's a little bit to track because ptsd as a diagnosis did not exist until not -- the 1980's, post-vietnam. you had shell shock and other phrases that were used. with the actual term ptsd was not used until the 1980's. knowing whether veterans of korea or world war ii or world war i had it, we can't track as much. , and i've seenra

is a close, where you can be deployed in iraq and come back in a firefight -- from a firefight and talk to your spouse overstepped or chat with your kids over instant messenger. in one way, that's damaging post of you have no way to decompress. you are in this intense place, and you areine, only thinking about how to get back to this place, and then suddenly your wife with the best of intentions is talking about homework, or your kids are talking about sports. on the one hand, integrate into your because of normalcy, but it also reminds you you are not meeting a normal life. and that you being there has a human cost on them. there is no time to decompress. post-world war ii, and then came back by ship. they had weeks where they were just on a boat floating back to the u.s. away from the war and not yet home. today, you come home three days after your tour ends. you do not have that decompression. it's very dangerous. host: a few more stats on world

war ii and the korean war from your book mother v.a. has continued to provide financial assistance to 19,000 veterans of world war ii and 12,000 veterans from the korean war. almost 11% tested positive for a mental disorder of some kind. we are talking with yochi dreazen about his book "the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war." ron is on the line for democrats. good morning. war is much more than the battlefield. we have scars that continue on members andfamily all.

i would just like to say that mental illness in general, , orle fear mental illness the symptoms people have with mental illness. media,have the 24/seven television shows that portray these people as people to be feared. but the fact is that mentally ill people are more times than not the victims of violence. and the victims of being taken advantage of. i think we really need to take a look at that. my last thing is, how do you feel about military in the ?uture going to drones

which bothers me, because right now, at least we feel the human toll on people and we have the incentive to stop it. drones, i just fear the future with that. multiple good points, and i think he's exactly right that the downside and many fears that civilians have about veterans, we should also remember that the military reflects us and we reflect military. suicide is the leading cause of death for silly and. ever since cars were created, car crashes had been the leading cause of death until 2010. now it is suicide. when we sit at home and we see videos with a normal car crash, we should bear in mind that more people, civilians, have killed themselves than have died in car crashes. that number is staggering. it is hitting the civilian world, every facet of it. and i think mental health now is probably a bit like alcoholism 50 years ago. everyone i talk to will mention

quietly, i know someone, a friend, a family member who fought against depression, against ptsd. it is still not talked about quite as much, but it is there. it is much like alcohol abuse where everyone knew people who were drinking, but it took a long time to feel comfortable talking about it. and we are not there yet, but that is the world we are in. they are not quite willing to talk, but there is a -- an awareness of it and a willingness that is coming. the caller brings up the issue of drones, i remember bringing -- reading a story about a former drone pilot who operated a drone out of somewhere in the washington area experiencing ptsd from the drone operation. i don't know if you recall that story. guest: i've read a couple of stories on this. been fighting that sufferperators sometimes

the rates higher than pilots. wherever theyafe are sitting. they are watching more in high definition. war in high definition. they are watching a soldier from that unit get killed and they cannot do anything. and that weighs on them. and the of the thing is with high-definition, not to be too graphic, but when a missile is fired by drone and hits a group of men or a car, you can see what it does. you can see the bodies, the body parts, and that takes a toll. a drone operator experiences that much more rapidly than a fighter pilot. a pilot drops and the salon off he goes. fires at therator

target and hovers there to make sure they got what they were there to get. they are seeing this in tremendous high fidelity. and they are killing people and see what that looks like after. in both cases, it means that run operators are not immune from this. they are suffering ptsd, too. tweet -- for is on the line independents. caller: here in providence i was told two years ago by a hair island saw seven times that she was overbooked and wouldn't see me anymore. they told my congressman that my condition wasn't serious enough to warrant their time.

in have been suicidal. i don't know what to do. guest: lynn, i'm heartbroken to hear this. there is an organization that i would encourage you to reach out to, when i've done some work with. it's called give an hour. and the website is called our.org. these are civilians, therapist across the country, who volunteer their time every week at no charge. it is worth calling. check the website. they will have people in providence who will see you at no charge and keep it confidential. and it was -- and they will try to get the help that you need. i'm sorry to hear about pain and the struggle that is evident just in your voice. call the number that was up, go eanhour.org.

there are people there that will help. hopeful statistic from your book, pentagon has been throwing huge amounts of money at the suicide problem and has put more than $709 on research and traumatic brain injury since 2007. guest: when we think about the medical system writ large, one of the things that you see is things like better ways to treat burns. that is because the military funded it. and then it became a bigger thing in the civilian world as well. the military says when you first come in, we will take a battery of tests. when you deploy we will give you a battery of tests. and then when you come back, and then again five or 10 years

later. they are putting together the biggest amount of information ever on mental health. and it is changing their findings can't logically. person who suffers,, you can see that part of their brain function differently. -- persons who suffer from trauma, you can see that part of the brain functions differently. for people who thought that this did not exist, this is proving that it does. the research will change not just what we know of and how we see it, but eventually how we treat it. host: we've got about 15 minutes left with yochi dreazen. the book is "the invisible front: love and loss in an era of endless war," recently named one of "new york times" best books of the year. on the line for active and retired military members, madison heights, michigan, good morning, john. caller: i have a question.

i'm a vietnam veteran and a lot of us are going through ptsd. it's a good book you've got. i was wondering if you've ever thought about doing a study on agent orange for the vietnam veterans. when we came back, we were not treated very well. everyone just ignored us and wanted us to go away. -- and with agent orange getting our older vets, and the suicide from that, i was wondering if you would consider doing a study on that. guest: that's a good point, the fiscal impact of chemicals used theietnam, and frankly, in gulf war. there was a respiratory illness from iraq that they still do not know what caused it. there are physical factors that we do not yet know what they are. is next in louisville, kentucky, the line for republicans. -- caller: good

morning. i'm not republican, but i will go ahead with my question here. i have read "the invisible front." chi hasondering if yo ," thathe war on the soul speaks about the warrior class and the exposure to the horrors of war. they're looking for a place to go. i don't see that warrior circle being cultivated. i don't see it being cultivated military and i know it's not cultivated in society. my best friends, probably the people i love the most in this world over my own family were with me when i was there. i think about them more than i think about civilian family.

the memories are just so deep and so real. when i was with them, i felt like a man. i felt that i had value and worth. i do not feel this anymore. andve gone through the v.a. it was a very rough road. you're either going to try to take it and it will work or you don't take it and it won't work at all. but it's a rough road. wondering -- i don't know. i'm getting a little lost here. what are your feelings on that book, and if you've read it, and the warrior class and how important it is to individuals who have been through combat. there are a lot of books i've read, but that one, to be

honest, is not one that i did. but that was one of the more articulate descriptions about what it's like to come back that i've ever heard. people talk about the intensity, that this was the great adventure of their life and they will never experienced anything like it again. unlike in the non-, we venerate unlike in vietnam, we venerate troops and we thank them for their service. flipside is, most of us don't know anybody who serves. if you live in a major city, the odds of you knowing a veteran are very slim. arethe odd that you served even slimmer. the divide between the two world is profound. when i was researching a book, i talk tok to new york to and extort woman who is now working as a nurse. she called me on the train to say, i'm going to be a mess when you get here and i apologize in advance, but i will tell you when you come.

one of her husbands best friend in the special forces had been killed in afghanistan that day. as we were walking through new york, all i could think of is, here in every side, melanie is a very fashionable woman, very well put together, and we probably passed 1000 people in a block from her house to the restaurant, and probably none of the new anybody who served and had someone that they love to have been hurt or killed. and here she is sobbing and bawling about someone who was killed in a war that we have largely forgotten. here's the sobbing woman whose life was shattered again by the loss of someone war. host: how did you get to know them, to find out about their story? back: in 2009 i had come after traveling for a couple of months and veterans i was friends with the end is in that they had changed, that their wives had looked at them with fear in their eyes, and other chair -- the children were scared of them. couple of them had killed themselves.

i went to the pentagon and asked, who is really fighting with this? i did not believe it to be true, the idea that you had a general let alone these two. i thought of myself as a hardened person, but i had to go to the bathroom and/water on my face and come back out because there story was -- their story was so -- and/water on my face and come back out because their story was so powerful. host: mary is up next in vista, california, the line for democrats. good morning and merry christmas. i cannot wait to read your book will stop the military, the way they -- read your book. the military, the way they treat the officers, it's are different classes.

why doesn't the pentagon take that $700 million they spent on research and spend it on these men and women who have served our country? every american who wants to go to war here, go toward korea, go to war whenever something happens, stop and think about the cost, about what it takes out of these men and women we go over there, when we send them overseas and make them kill for us? we are not paying the price. these unfortunate military people are paying the price. i just think merry christmas to all our veterans. mary makes two good points. the first is, we as a society 08 ebt.--owe a d

there is a lot of money being spent to hire more doctors, not nearly enough, but there is more money being spent. there is a debt that we oh two people who bought in our name. and unfortunately, it is not something we can write a check and the problem is finished and turn away. treating veterans is not a sexy issuable to many of the veterans of these wars will need help for 40 or 50 years. that is something we have to get our arms around as a country. said, as an you issue that money can fix, you offer some recommendations recently. .ne, gun control what was the rule that you proposed in that article? itst: number one, make harder for people to physically use their gun. it's a trigger lock. you actually have to take the key and unlocked it to use the weapon. a lot of times what they are discovering with suicide is that

there is depression, but there is one thing that triggers it. there is one moment that says, ok, now i'm going to do it. and if you can delay that, you can actually save that person's life. anything that you can do to make it harder will make it harder for them to kill himself and less likely for them to kill themselves. that is a really cheap thing that is not being done. say,he other is for you to you have served. we think you may have an issue. why don't you store your weapon down at the base? you want to go hunting, you want to go to target shooting, they are safe. no one will still them or take them away, but keep them at the base. you have to go to the base everyday anyway. they come home and day,hing broke them that they go to the closet and get their gun. do.hing you can and these are cheap and simple. that takethere bases

that step that you are talking about? guest: they will encourage it, but it's not mandatory anywhere. let's go to barbara in florida on that line for family members or members of the military. barbara, good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to say thank you to c-span for airing this -- ptsd.r i have ptsd, but i have a wonderful doctor, a be a doctor, and my psychiatrist -- a v.a. dr. and a psychiatrist. and there is a study called project valor. and there is a study of military personnel with ptsd for three years.

that really helps as well. i have to subsidize with the lady that called in earlier. she sounded suicidal and i cried. i had to compose myself before i could make this call. but i'm glad you are putting the number up on the screen, the suicidal prevention hotline. because she sounded so desperate. airingin, thank you for this particular subject. it is vitally important stop -- vitally important, and to let people know that we are not all crazy because we have ptsd. we are struggling, but we are making it. thank you, and got bless you. the kindank you for words. there are many people fighting this, really hard. dedicated people like mark and caroline. this is something where there are very good people, thousands of them, and this is all they do is try to help others. it is also with her membrane

that the only area in which you are seeing suicide begin to rise among -- the only area where you are starting to see suicide begin to rise among female veterans is because of rape. that is where you are seeing women start to take their lives. woman who wasung raised at the naval academy and for something to be done and they didn't, and she asked to at least sleep in a different room and they wouldn't let her switch. she was suicidal and try to take her own life. she was able to get help. if you think of the callousness of that. the veterans who are sexually assaulted here and not brought, and that is also the cause. call waiting,, a

michael. go ahead. thank you for letting me call in. i would like to tell you a problem that no one understands. corpsmen.-tour navy i, world war ii, korea, vietnam, afghanistan, the governmentwar, our is well aware of what is causing post-traumatic stress disorder. don't let anybody fool you. you cannot put people on continual rotations, four and without itx times affecting them severely. our government will knows that. you can have all the psychiatrist and all the hoopla and all the money spent to

determine why we get post-traumatic stress. that is the major cause. bring back the draft. our people served in the military. that is what ended in vietnam. draft in not have a vietnam, we probably would still be there. because so many people were being drafted that they said, no, i'm not going to go. you bring back the draft and make everybody serve, not just 1%. host: making the point that the burden is being carried by too few people. guest: it is, and there's no question. of people canage serve. many of us are too fat, or do not meet the graduation requirements. many interpersonal do not want to draft. they do not want people with of all problems, abuse problems, arrest records. they want people to come in who

volunteer. but 1.i wanted to respond to at the beginning of the call, a profile of of man named ty carter, who won the medal of honor in afghanistan for the bravest thing possible, repeatedly running into a taliban ambush and dragging people out. and when i interviewed him, he said that if you go to war, and you come back, and if you are the same person as when you left, that is when you need help. work changes you will stop it -- war changes you. it should change you. if you come back and you have not change, that is when you need help. couple of minutes turning to the story of the grams, -- a poem. it says, they leave you are

death, give them your meaning. guest: i find that poem to be extraordinarily moving. difficult -- it's it is difficult with kevin because they blame themselves so directly. there were signs that they just missed. ast died in combat in dangerous war. but with kevin, they feel like they could have saved him and they didn't. one thing i find so extraordinary about mark and carol, we did hundreds of hours of interviews. they knew there would be people out there who would read the book and think of them as failed parents, who would read the book and think, yeah, mark, yeah, carol, you did feel your son. they knew people would judge them, but they at no point did they hesitate sharing these

painful expenses, or their own self-doubt or blame. that is amazing to me, because no one wants to be in a position of having outsiders looking in and saying you failed. they are hoping that something this book might -- someone reading this book might realize peoplene person or five or 10 people get that help, whatever blame they may get from other people is worth it. host: christian has been waiting in oklahoma city, oklahoma on the line for democrats. caller: let me finish, because you always hang up on me. i do feel sorry for the settlement, but once again, this is the -- another problem that the bush and ministration cause. president obama has to go in and fix it. for people who are going to call -- let's talk about who has blood on their hands.

the republicans, and hillary clinton who sent you to war, they have let on their hands. you have a gentleman who called in and said america is not strong anymore. what makes a strong america? is it shock and awe? is it killing innocent babies? is it using blackwater to slaughter innocent people? yochi dreazen, i will let you jump in. you get into the politics at all of this issue? a debate on the right way to move forward? about there is a debate whether you spend this amount or that amount of money. you don't hear republicans say it's not real. the bush and ministration started the afghan and iraq

wars, but the obama administration surged the war. it is to solicit to say one deserves blame and gas to a simplistic to say one deserves blame and the other doesn't. house, democrats and the white house. this is not a partisan issue. isre is good and bad and it not easy to break it down in black and white. within then military, what do you do with someone who kills themselves? do you give them a military funeral? do you give them a 21-gun salute? to butople say no oncene who is troubled, you have served, you oh them that debt. you of them that honor. it is not an easy issue. host: thomas has been waiting on the line for veterans. from kentucky. go ahead.