continues right after this. >> earlier this year, on cancer innovation. an hour-long preservationon the biggest pinocchio's of 2014 the word. given the politicians and political groups he believes made the biggest false claims. >> democrats tend to get a more upset at them because i think they have been brought into the myth of the liberal media. and they think that the media is on the side. where as republicans firmly kind of -- so the to ect that they're going be, you know, they are not going to be fair to me. i kind of think -- i hope that

i er the last four years, have done enough back and forth, ttweeted both parties equal further, that people will now come to grudgingly say, okay, you are someone we can do business with. the senate majority pac, which affiliated with harry reid, they stopped answering my questions midway through the campaign season because they felt they were not getting a fair shake for me. pm sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's "q&a". on the c-span , networks. here are some of our future programs. 10:00 am eastern, the washington ideas form. energy conservation. k club owner, warren brown. an inventor, dean kamen.

4 o'clock eastern, the brooklyn historical society holds a conversation on race. and apollo 7 astronaut, walt cunningham, on the first manned spaceflight. new year's day on c-span2, author hector tobar on the 33 men who were buried in a chilean mine. and richard norton smith on the life of rockefeller. and cheryl atkinson, on her on the nces reporting obama administration. new year's day on "american history tv". 10:00 am eastern, juanita abernathy, 4:00 pm, benjamin karp on the link between alcohol and prerevolutionary new york city. 8:00 pm, the cartoonist draws 10

presidential caricatures. new year's day on the c-span networks. for our complete schedule, go to c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: wwe want to welcome back the program, kevin mccormally of kiplinger. to talk about year-end tax per-person advice. guest: pedro, i'm happy to be here. host: bbefore he left, some bills were passed. of those affect how taxpayers pay their taxes next year? guest: they reinstate a bunch of breaks, but just for 2014. the bill was signed last week, and it expires next week. but there are some important ones, particularly for businesses -- 50% depreciation.

during the housing crisis, they said if you l that -- when a lender forgives debt foreclosure, le or the homeowner is given a form that says they have to pay tax on the amount of debt. so congress said, we are going tax on forgiven debt. that expired at the end of but last week they reinstated it. there are a lot of things that the past. but in one way, it is exactly the same as it was last year. because what they did was restore the bricks that were there in 2013. bring till can't themselves to deal with the tax law going forward. michigan, who retired -- the last thing he did was drop a huge tax reform bill in the hopper. he knew it was going to go nowhere. take over is going to and start to figure out tax reform. the last factor for we had was 1986.

people think it is going to happen, but not until after the next elections. host: as far as next year is concerned, those taxes expire next week. after that, they don't exist anymore? guest: they don't exist but everyone expects congress to restore them again. it all comes down to the revenue. they don't want to extend them permanently because you look at 10 year cost -- let's do it one year at a time. the way tthese guys sort of handle everything. doing something long-term, which is particularly what taxpayers, the businesses need. a plan and a way to invest that is best for the shareholders and their families. host: a list of things people can do to benefit for next year's tax advice? guest: behind door number one is contributions. if you can afford to give money you itemize and

deductions -- which about 25% of taxpayers do -- yyou write a check or charge it to a credit card by december 31, you get a tax refund. behind door number two is even more important. that is your portfolio. the market is still open for another couple of days. there are still some areas you can tell, you can take those losses for 2014. was a huge decline in oil prices. now, people who brought oil stocks five years ago, they probably will have gains after the fall. but if you are buying shares in august at the peak, you might want to sell some of those shares. you get to pick which shares you sell, but you have to tell your broker exactly which ones. you can choose what you pay for those shares versus what you pay for them. that loss can offset other gains.

particularly r, for wealthy people. it is important to hold down there is a because surcharge for medicare that your income is $200,000, $250,000 on a joint. the top bracket is at 9.6. if you can keep below that and it helps syntaxes, you out. there is also a surtax on medicare premium. income ou can pull your below that -- they can take it up to over $300. they can triple what you pay each month for medicare. at all need to look these numbers and figure out what to do monday, tuesday, wednesday. host: so that sets an example of some of the advice you can take advantage of in the last few days. to ask our guest questions about tax issues for next year, here is how you can do so.

you can tweak your questions or comments. email us, too. it comes to hen healthcare -- the first year that people are really going to have to give information. year : 2014 is the first that all individuals are required to have healthcare or pay a penalty. congress decided, in its irs enforce ave that. although people are required to have healthcare in 2014, the insurers are not required to report to the government uuntil 2015. so there's absolutely no way the government can enforce this law. but individuals are expected to comply with it. so a lot of individuals will 1095 a or b.

that tells you whether or not you have insurance. get that are not -- if you don't get one, there's no problem. there is a little box that you check that says i have insurance. insurance, t have you cannot check that box and you have to figure penalty. a 1095 a -- where people got a subsidy from the for the s to help pay health insurance, they will get that form to say how big of a subsidy they got. they have to reconcile that subsidy, which is based on an estimate of their 2014 income. if you're subsidy was too big, you have to pay some of it back. if it was too low, you'll get a bigger refund. tax preparers were horrified at this, it is going to be, kidded.

it is going to be a mess. host: so, even if you buy popular tax software, will it be ready? guest: oh, it will be ready. just be extra questions. the software is really good as far as taking you step-by-step through it. i think it will work, but the are willing us up bby people who generally do their own returns. it is going to be much work obligated. host: our first call is from bill. bill, from virginia beach, virginia. go ahead. caller: yes, sir. thank you for taking my call. am currently on medicare, and i also use a plan which i'm happy with. primary question is -- tthe part b premium -- that

on a pretax out basis. i am allowed to? guest: probably not. there are self-employed, is because self-employed people can deduct that. but it is only deducted if all medicare expenses exceed 7.5% of all your adjusted income. host: ralph from new york, good morning. caller: yes, good morning and thank you for c-span. a proud uaw member ffrom upstate new york, and i want to the n ur guest extenders, is congress going to and act on them or are they eliminated?

guest: president obama signed a law last friday. it expires wednesday night, but they did extend all the from january 1 to december 31, 2014. but now, the law is pretty much exactly as it was last year at this time. the tax breaks that extended at the end of 2013 have now been retroactive. so, your tax situation will be almost identical to what it was in 2013. host: luis, good morning. out of california, go ahead. -- is the -- in order to -- home? guest: i'm sorry, pedro. i cannot hear that. host: could you repeat that slowly? caller: yes, is the taxes still

the same if -- home two years? guest: yes, the capital sales for home. i understand that is your question. the profit is almost completely tax-free. host: a couple things that your magazine recommended, you mentioned a little bit, but when it comes to 401(k)s and things like that, is there anything you can do to take advantage for next year? guest: the problem with 401(k)s it is pretty much up to your employer. most of it comes out of a payroll deduction. so if you have another check left in 2014, maybe you can get them to take more money out of it. a few plans will accept direct contributions, but very few. the rest of the retirement much have an equal deadline for your 2014 contributions. iras, your individual

401(k)s, all you have until next year to put in money and still deducted. host: one of the things you about is the differences between a traditional 401(k) and they roth 401(k). what are the disadvantages and advantages between the two? guest: roth 401(k)s are -- so, you put in $1000 and you are in the 25% bracket, it really only cost you $750. if you choose the roth account inside an ira, which many but not all, offer in that thousand and election cost you $1000. with the roth ira, because you pay tax going in, you pay no tax coming out. over l the earnings, maybe the 40 year working life, will be tax-free. it is a wonderful thing. now, it is a tough call to make.

it depends on what your tax bracket is now compared to what you are making when you retire. with roth, you're paying taxes now to have been tax-free later. older people, like me, we are not the high tax bracket now. i actually do use the ross because i want to have that diversity in retirement. so i can choose, do i take money out of my roth ira? or do i take it out of my traditional ira? are not en played again pushing myself into a higher tax bracket. host: so you can have two at the same time, if you wanted to. caller: exactly. if you have a roth ira and your employer makes a mess, you have both going red along. when you retire, you can take in a oth part and put it roth ira. and continue that diversification.

caller: i read an article that said you don't have to be a tax the property is -- gguest: i'm sorry, i'm confused. you brought up foreclosed property with a 401(k) account? caller: yes. guest: you took a hardship withdrawal from a 4401(k) -- you can escape the 10% penalty. but that money is still fully taxed. got s one of the sort of used in attacks -- got you's in

the tax. am on permanent disability from a work comp injury on the job. had several substantial i do s, and i wondered if claimed the health -- a vehicle and property stolen, do i not have a right a loss for ese as taxes wwhile i am receiving federal disability?

guest: if you tax income is pretty low, you may be actually able to get a tax loss on that property. to take is that loss, you have to have reported it to police. you have to judge how much money you lost on the deal. check out irs.gov. host: back to reporting. what about people who are unemployed and don't make enough to qualify for health insurance? guest: there are literally dozens of exemptions for not having health insurance. is another thing that they really worry about. if you deserve an exemption, have to have it before you file your return. exchange to go to the your how them how much

income is -- an figure out whether or not you qualify for exams and under the penalty. it is going to be a mess for a long time. host: david, thank you for holding on. from college station, texas. go ahead. david, hello? let's try scott. scott from dallas, texas. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. my question is concerning --

>> irs knows that. they look at 10%. those are the people who get cash and have a chance to hide it. not saying they do hide it, but they're the only ones who have a chance to. most of us don't have an opportunity. >> craig from florida, go ahead,

please guest: could you explain how to do the tax penalty for those who do their own taxes if you didn't have qualified hillary clinton in 2014 host: absolutely not. no, it's $95, period, or 1% of your income over a certain level, the filing threshold for your family status. so it's 1%. so it's $100,000, it would be $1,000. so, i mean, a lot of people say it's $95, it's not a deterrent. actually, that 1% will catch that more people. but there are all these exceptions to the rule. one thing i'd like to ask maybe is when it comes to the subsidy that's been paid to taxpayers to undercut the cost of the health insurance throughout the year, even if you had much larger subsidy than incurred, it's capped. congress is really trying to hold this down for low income

people. for high income people, it's 100% of filing threshold. it's very complicated. there's a form in the tax, irs developed a form for it. you'll get it in your tax package and it's complicated. caller: you can go to irs.gov and get this type of information? host: yeah, the forms are out. some of them are draft forms. it's another problem that irs had for about 100 years in a row with congress dragging its feet on tax legislation until the very last minute. the irs announced that the tax filing season, which ought to start the third week in january will be delayed until february because they're not ready. the computers haven't been programmed to take all these last minute changes into account and test them. the forms are ready and you can find the form that this penalty will be computed on and figure it out. marrow, go ahead, please. caller: good morning, gentlemen guest: good morning. caller: what do you think about

investing in roth ira or traditional ira guest: what kind of investments? caller: like gold, or anything like an orc guest: you can't put it in ira unless it's gold coins. other investments makes sense. multiple partnerships is one thing a lot of people talk about. these will be like pipeline companies. the problems with mlps in an ira, is they generate too much taxable income. that income is taxed as an additional ira, so you have to be careful about that. on the other hand, i have an mlb in my ira because it doesn't produce very much of this business tax related income. i'd get some advice before do you it. >> reporter: -- host: bob, up next, milton, florida. caller: hi, i have a question, medicaid waiver payments.

if you receive a medicare waiver payment for disability care, if it's on a w 2, the waiver on line 7, and you back it out on line 21, because it is not a taxable item, however, once you put it in on line 7, you qualify for eic, child care guest: i'm sorry. i'm not familiar with this issue at all. i can't help you. it's the kind of thing that the irs can answer quickly. i understand you need to put it in income for earned income credit but i don't understand how to backs out, sorry. host: mike from pennsylvania,

hi. caller: i'm mike. my brother and i are new small business owners. we just formed an llc this past year, and i was surprised to find out that we started paying a pay check to ourselves in the second half of the year, and i was surprised to find out that we were required to pay unemployment compensation insurance, the company was, in the state of pennsylvania, but weren't allowed to collect unemployment even if business was slow, and i guess the state -- why do we have to pay this tax if we're not even allowed to collect unless it's like a forced bankruptcy or a -- only in very rare circumstances, and to me, it sounds like the state is just collecting a bunch of money from small business owners on their wages and never having to pay any of it out. i'd like to hear what the comment is from the professionals there. i mean, is that a loop hole from the state to collect on the wages of small business owners? what is his thoughts on that?

guest: i've never heard of this being presented. i know the small business owners, including the nanny tax we talked about earlier, you have to pay unemployment compensation tax for nannies so you have to pay any for your employee even yourself if you're the employee. i don't understand why you're prohibited from claiming, if it's an issue i'm not aware of it, i'm sorry. host: george, from dallas, good morning, go ahead, please. caller: yes, sir. my question is, is i have a mother that's 84 years old, and she's in very poor health, and i'm the only child, and she's -- her house is free and clear. we've got the deed and safe deposit box, and she's wanting to sign it over to me completely, but i am in the will, i am the only child. is there any tax fees to turn it over to me or not? guest: absolutely not. that's probably a huge mistake.

i'm sorry, she's not in great shape. if she gives that house to you now, your tax basis will be what she paid for the house. say the house was $100,000, she paid 25 for it. if you sell the house, you'll owe taxes on the $75,000. if you inherit the house through her will, the tax basis is whatever it is if she dies. i talk to a lot of lawyers about this. people in your situation, where an elderly parent thinks they're going to do a big favor by passing on the house now rather than waiting on the will, but it can be a big tax headache. i would check with the lawyer and i think it would be a big mistake to do it. host: steve, parkersburg, west virginia. you're next, go ahead. caller: yes, what is the max -- i'm 54 years of age, guest: you're 53, the max it

would be 6500 for 2014. it's 5500 for people under 50 and up, it's 6500 this year and next year as well. host: do you have a follow-up? caller: thank you for your time guest: how many people achieved the maximum putting into it guest: i've never seen statistics on it. i'm sure it's very low. all the retirement statistics is people are not saving for retirement the way they need to if they want to maintain their lifestyle. they've never seen a figure on how many people do, but i'm sure it's low. guest: you see this big figure, and how they achieve it. they're going to get there. people wait until the end of the year. you're not going to be able to come up with $6500, but it's the kiplinger pen itch, pay yourself first. save some of it for the retirement. everyone should put into the 401k to capture an employer match because it's free money.

if you can go beyond that into the ira, do that as well. host: does it work for the 529 savings as well guest: yes, those are the state savings college plans. if your state offers a deduction for what you contribute for a child or grandchild, the money has to be in by december 31 because that deduction on your state return. there's no federal deduction for that, but the earnings are federally tax free. the great way to save for retirement but you need to start -- i just put money into my three branch accounts yesterday, because the oldest one is two, the other was just born but 18 years from now, it can grow and be important to their education. host: monticello, georgia. david, welcome. caller: good morning, thank you, c-span. my question is, i was disabled about three years ago, and i was elected to public office november of 2013, which comes

with a meager salary of $450 a month, and that's taxed just like a regular payroll check. my question is, when i file my taxes this year, the disability that i receive every month, is that going to be taxed now? has it been taxed before? guest: disability insurance is interesting, if you pay for the policy that's providing the benefits, the benefits are tax-free. if your employer paid for the benefits or if it's like social security disability, they get -- if it's social security disability it's going to be taxed like any other social security benefit, which depends on your income level. no more than 85% of that can be taxed. it depends on where the money is coming from. you should check with whoever's providing the checks and they'll tell you. $450, thank you for your service won't push you into a taxable

level. host: gwen from florida, go ahead. caller: i have an investment that was in canada and i brought it out this year, and in canada, 25% of it was for the taxes. do i have to claim it here when i file taxes guest: you're an american citizen? caller: i am guest: it's going to be taxable here. i'm not sure how that would hold and you've handled -- i know the u.s. has an important and clear tax treaty with canada. if you go to irs.gov and search for canadian tax treaty, you'll find information on how to handle that. you definitely should not be taxed on the amount that was withheld or you'll get credit for that. but i believe you have to report the income in the u.s. because citizens are taxed on their worldwide income. if you're living abroad, there's an income excluesion amount

since you're here. check it out on the irs.gov. host: you were already taxed in canada, is that what you said. caller: yes. guest: we do the same thing. we withhold. most countries do that, but there are these tax treaties that we have with many nations around the world that have specific rules on this kind of thing, i just don't know the canadians. host: if you're just joining us, we're giving tax advice. kevin mcconnally. guest: we're a finance magazine, help people invest and spend and save their money. we just came out in the next issue with our college rankings, which we're proud of. we've been doing them 10 years, it's something that the government has been talking about now, measuring value of college. what you get for what you pay. and we look very carefully at the kind of financial aid that

schools give to students, and it's fascinating, we're finding in many, many instances, more and more private colleges are actually cheaper to go to than public colleges because the privates have these huge endowments and help so many people. particularly, the higher income people still pay the $50,000 sticker shock numbers, but there's so much aid from the endowments that they really need to look above. so we've been helping people since 1947. we're proud of what we do. the boom of the finance magazines, we were the first, there were 13 of them. now, there are just two, money magazine and kiplinger are left. we give a lot of advice to people. about 2 million people. kiplinger.com is free, because we can't figure out how to charge it. kiplinger.com is there. and you can get all the information. host: hello, from arizona. caller: hi, my question is my

husband passed away in june, and i am unsure about -- we filed a joint return or individual, where can i find more information on this, thank you guest: first, condolences on your husband's death. in the year that his spouse dies, you file a joint return so you'll file just as you did last year. you get his full personal exemption, if you take the standard deduction. this year, it will be just like last year. going forward, you'll have to file a single person unless you have a dependent child at home. if you have a dependent child, widows and widowers with a dependent child, you use the rates in year one and two after the death. they are called qualified widows in 2014. host: mary from florida is up

next, go ahead. caller: i don't even know what's going on. my husband lives in mexico nine months of the year, and i live in florida. the problem is, he passed away. when i retire, i'm going to have to have a death certificate. i don't even have a passport to go see anything. how do i prove anything? my kids are going down there this weekend, but if they -- if i don't get a death certificate, how can i get one? guest: i'm sorry, i can't help you with that. don't need a death certificate for tax purposes, but i don't know what other reasons you need it for. i can't help you, if your children are going down there next week, i would suggest they get in touch with the authorities down there and try to figure it out. that's all i can suggest. host: hi, tony from new jersey. caller: question i have is years ago, when i was working, the company had gave us money towards our pension, and i also

had an ira, for several years, it was tax-free, until ray came in, and he charged me tax on my ira. so i was tax-free and part of my ira is taxable. how do you work that out guest: it's a good question. i'm not sure exactly what your situation is. if it's a traditional ira and you deducted the contributions going into the plan, then everything that comes out is taxable. if you made nondeductible contributions to a traditional ira, you had to keep track of those on a form 85 something or other, and that's the basis in the ira so say you have $800,000 in the ira and $10,000 was the money you put in after tax non-dedeductible contributions. in that case, 10% of every withdrawal would be tax-free, 90% would be taxable, and it's up to you to keep track of all

of this and not get the withdrawals. i don't think there was a change when reagan came into the case. after reagan, if you had a roth ira and money that comes out of a roth ira is tax-free in retirement. it's very confusing. host: we have a question off e-mail. are there any tips for single women never married who have no dependents, no children? guest: i don't think there are any special breaks for single people, and you wait, the tax laws -- you know, the joint return rates are better than single rates. there are breaks for kids and college education. that's where congress goes but i don't think there are any specific breaks for single women, no. host: except maybe mortgage and interest deduction guest: there are no specific breaks. yeah, you get your mortgage deduction if you itemize. most people don't.

you have your ira deduction and it's the same level as a married person but a married couple gets doubled, 6500 rather than 5500. a lot of single people complain about this. host: what's the ir -- what is the limit on income to purchase for 2015 to 2016 guest: you can't have a roth ira contribution, but there is a back door contribution. you can put your money in a non-deductible ira and convert it into a roth ira. the problem is if you have any traditional iras, it might not be tax free and you might have to pay tax on some of the conversion. that's one thing. the other thing do you is look at the roth 401k. because there's no income limit. the roth 401k is a book to higher income people because

they get entry for the wealth contribution. host: what's your take on the recent stock market increase that is we've seen? what do you think is going on behind that guest: i think it was oversold because of the oil patch problems. i think, you know, the stock market has become so volatile and at kiplinger we think it's going to continue that way. it's not a place for the weak of stomach to be in the market. but, you know, the economy is growing like gang busters right now, the 3rd quarter stuff looks great. the rest of the world is in terrible shape. everyone wants to come to america and buy our bonds, which will keep interest rates low. we think when the fed raises rates, which it may in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, we're not afraid of what that will do to the market. we don't think it will be rapid or shock the market. everyone's expecting it three or four years. the american economy is looking really healthy right now and, you know, it -- kiplinger predicted about a 16% return on the s & p this year. we got 15.3. we're looking for 11% next year.

the long-term average you have to remember is 10% and we've been running above that ever since 2009 when the recession ended. the market has been gang busters, so this is a problem for some people when they do the returns next year, they'll have capital gain distributions and dividends that could push up their tax bill, unless they do something on monday and tuesday to work the portfolio as we talked about earlier. host: push the website, rothira.com. if you're married and $85,000 or less, the contribution is 5500. married filing jointly, 81,000-91,000, it phases out and goes on from there. rothira.com is the website. host: she was a single woman guest: the contribution is 5500 and phases out. so for that viewer looking for that information. linda, staten island, new york,

hi. caller: good morning, i'm a subscriber to the magazine guest: thank you. caller: yes, and i would like you, if you could give me advice on a tax issue. i have a business that's been incorporated since 1996, and since then, i've been through disasters and relocations. new york state has some housing to insist some tax incorporation. i'd like to know how can i possibly dispute this tax. we've never had a receipt or sales or anything for this business, and franchise tax guest: i can't answer that question. i don't know what it could possibly be based off of, those receipts. it's a state issue, i'm sorry, i can't help you. host: lakeland, michael, from florida.

caller: a student loan that's in offset, been on social security for disability for years now. i'm trying to get this expunged, taken away, forgiven, the $18-19,000 on the student loan. well, i have to pay taxos that. guest: a forgiven student loan will generally be taxed as income, yes. there's this break we talked about earlier, homeowners who lost their loans, up to $2 million, that kind of debt is forgiven tax free now. but student loan is taxable. the rules for student loan debt are the most dra conian of any type of debt. you can't get rid of it in bankruptcy. you will be taxed. do a 1099 fee form. there's one exception in this, and it's an important one i almost overlooked here. if you're insolvent. if you have more debts than you have assets, this income is not taxable. so check out the insolvency

rules. it's a thing that a lot of people were scared when they lost their homes, they were going to be taxed on it, they weren't because of the insolvency rule. if you don't have money you won't be taxod it. host: let's go to joan in jacksonville, florida. caller: i have a daughter who's 58, she's working but wants to retire next year because her vision is getting worse. she also has some credit card debt and she also has a 401(k). she seems to think she can just take money out of her 401(k)and be able to live on that. who should i send her to to consult about before she retires and also about her 401(k). what kind of tax system she going to have to pay on that? guest: there is an exception to the early penalties from the

withdrawals if you're permanently disabled. she'll need to talk to a tax attorney or cpa about whether or not she qualifies for that. otherwise, when she takes money out, it'll be fully taxed in the to be bracket and face the 10% penalty until she's 59 1/2. it needs to be permanent disability in order to avoid that penalty. as far as who she should talk to. i think she should check if she's in a big enough company who has hr department to give her advice on the withdrawals. she could qualify to avoid the penalty with hardship withdrawal. assuming her income is high enough to be taxed so she needs to look into that. if it's her disability causing her to retire, she should be in touch with social security. the social security has disability benefits that kick in before retirement benefits. host: this is the last call, stanford, connecticut.

go ahead. caller: hey, how you doing. i won some money in the lottery this year and been told i could use old lottery tickets to pay off some of the taxes. is this true or not? guest: yes, it's true. lottery winnings, all gambling winnings are taxable. losses, including the tickets that didn't pay off are deductible. that's deductible without worrying about the 2% rule that usually applies. whatever your winnings were, if it was $1 million. if you can show what you invest in the lottery, i don't think you need to have all those old tickets. because if you're like me you probably throw them away. but if you can establish a pattern that you invest $5-10 a week in lottery tickets, just estimate -- or come up with a reasonable estimate of what you invested from the lottery tickets and subtract it -- no, you have to report all the winnings and deduct the losses. caller: you can deduct losses? guest: yeah. you lose money in vegas or lottery tickets.

only to the extent of your winnings. if you don't have winnings, you don't get the losses. host: we talked about things for tax extenders, but are there new rules coming into 2015 tax-wise people should be aware about guest: not really, because again, the least productive congress, they don't like to be called, didn't do anything this year. you only get them if they're itemized. host: kevin mccormally. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: coming up, we'll talk to steve burkowitz. he's joining us to discuss college athletic programs and some of the changes at both the collegiate and governmental level. we'll have that discussion as "wurnl" continues after this. >> new years day on the c-span

networks, here are some of our networks. energy conversation with david crane. t.boon pickens. cake love owner warren brown, and dean camon. at 4:00 p.m. eastern, the brooklyn historical society holds a conversation on race. >> richard nelson smith on the life of rockefeller. and at 8:00 p.m. eastern, former correspondent for cbs news, cheryl atkinson on her experiences with the obama administration. at 10:00 a.m. eastern, johnita aber nathy and her experiences

on the role of people in the civil rights movement. at 4:00 p.m., benjamin carpe on the link between alcohol and politics in pre-revolutionary new york city. and at 2:00 p.m., 10 presidential care catours drawn as david mccollough discusses the qualities. new years day on the c-span networks. for the complete schedule, go to c-span.org. >> here are some of our featured programs. tonight, 8:00 p.m. on c-span, ahena -- sunday at 8:00, fact checker auther glenn kessler, on his end of the year biggest pi-nokias 2014 awards. on book tvs after wards, da mon root on supreme court activism and judicial restraint, and on

sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, book critic jonathan yardly who retired 33 years after the washington post, and on american history tv on c-span 3 today at 6:00 p.m. eastern on the civil war, historians and authors discuss president lincoln's 1864 re-election campaign. and sunday afternoon at 4:00 on real america, tried by fire. a 1965 film that chronicles the 84th infantry division during the battle of the bulge. find the complete television schedule at c-span.org and let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. e-mail us @comments@ c-span.org or tweet us @c-span # comments. join the conversation. like us on facebook. follow us on twitter. >> washington journal continues. host: over the next couple of days, washington journal will talk to the experts on things we

learned talking to the big 10 presidents. today, we're looking at college athletics programs. joining us is steve berkowitz. good morning guest: thanks. host: college athletics. how much of it itself makes up the college university? what role do they play guest: in the budget of the university, it's a pretty small piece of it in terms of the finances of it, but in terms of the renowned and the publicity it draws, obviously it gets viewed even within college athletics and within higher-ed generally as being kind of a front porch for the university in terms of ways that universities get its name out there, and gets its message out there, and just sort of the way people interact with colleges generally is through the athletic -- in a large part and large way is through the athletic program. host: how many students are involved in college athletics guest: in a broader basis within the totality of the ncaa

across all three divisions of the ncaa, it's between 450 and 475,000 students who are playing sports within division i, which is the group of schools that are involved in the basketball tournament, march madness. it's about 180,000 students across the board in all sports. host: we're told that eight out of 10 of those students were in bachelor's degrees, more than 35% of the students will go on to post graduate degrees. are there issues for those students participating in college programs or the programs itself that are of note? guest: in terms of issues, obviously the greatest challenge for any of these athletes is the time demands of their sports and putting it all together and managing their time and being able to get through and go on to college. obviously, most of the attention is on mens basketball and football which is a big revenue-generating sports, the sports on television the most and the time demands are greatest and, you know, where the academic backgrounds of some

of the athletes are sometimes not quite as good as the rest of the student population but you have to keep in mind as well that the totality of college sports runs across a broader spectrum and there are lots and lots of people playing college sports who are in sports outside of those things, whether it's in swimming, track and field, or soccer, or whatever, where there is a whole lot going on there, and there are a lot of the students heavily engaged in their academics and still have a lot of demands on them, but there's a lot of professional prospects out there for them, so they tend to be real heavily involved in getting a degree and going on to other things. host: the pittsburgh post-gazette did a story on college athletics and the kinds of programs students are involved with, student athletes, most of them being enrolled in business communications, it also says fitness studies and interdisciplinary studies. are these pushing the programs that aren't academically rigorous

guest: it doesn't mean they're not academically rigorous depending on the institution but it has to do with the interest of people playing sports. if you're involved in sports, you might have general interest in sports or in business or in sports management, or in recreation, or some of those sort of sports oriented types of programs. i mean, certain of these programs also are more -- it's it's simpler to manage depending on the academic model of the university or what the academic demands are of them, interdisciplinary programs tend to give the athletes more -- or give students generally more freedom to pick and choose what they're involved in, but there's no question there's been signs of sort of athletes being funneled towards academic programs within universities, for a variety of different reasons. some of which are more nefarrious than others, that have raised questions about this, so-called clustering of

athletes in certain majors, or whether or not athletes majored in programs they actually wanted to be in or whether or not they're involved in programs that sort of helped them maintain -- it's easier for them to maintain their eligibility and continue playing. being involved in an engineering or pre-med program is a serious big-time academic program for any student, no matter if they're involved in a sport that could demand 40-60 hours of their time. host: do college put demands on student athletes guest: the school and ncaa has requirements about progress towards a degree at a certain grade point average, and the requirements vary from year to year as you go along. you have to have completed more and more each year, but the idea behind those standards is to sort of help push and require athletes toward a point where they, in theory, would be able to finish their degrees once they get done with their eligibility. at least that's the goal. host: is it the goal -- is it

being achieved though guest: in some places, more than others. there's no question that as these rules have been instituted by the ncaa, there's been an increase in the rate of graduation by athletes, whether or not those are good enough you know, that's open to debate. it depends on what's your comparison point. are you strictly comparing against the totality of the population, are you comparing against the male population? what's your base line comparison point? and in some places, the athlete graduation rates, again when you look at the broader spectrum of graduates, the athletes are higher rates of students than non-athletes. mens basketball, in many instances, the rates are lower and some places, considerably lower. host: you said revenue sports, football and basketball guest: football and basketball generate the most revenue. there are a few sports,

depending on the particular places, actually generate surpluses, although those are few and far between. but for example, womens basketball generates revenue. does it cover the cost of womens basketball? no. you're talking about a revenue sport versus a surplus generating sport. the surplus is football and basketball. host: steve burkowitz of usa today. you want to ask questions about the student athlete, revenues made or anything associated with that, here are the numbers to call. perhaps you participate in sports and you want to give your input 202--- for educators, 748-8002, parents 202-748-8001. and students 202-748-8000.

how much power does a student say hey, i need help or assistance. how much help can a student get when it comes to making decisions about himself because he's involved in a sport guest: a lot of help, and it's required they be given the ability to get academic assistance in school but there's a lot of advising given to college athletes and some of that revising results in decisions athletes end up not being happy with when they're done with school and they get funneled towards certain academic programs they're easier to manage and perhaps not where they wanted to end up when they first started in school, or maybe they're not happy with where they ended up when they got done with school but there is an incredible support network at most of the major college athletics programs, and it's a completely different environment than it is for the normal student in terms of being able to access, advising, and help with lining up major programs and so on. again, the time demands on the

athletes are considerable and that's the reason why these things are set up, but there's a huge scaffolding around the athletes to help them manage these kinds of things. host: and so they're advised, they get put in a program. sometimes it works for them and sometimes it doesn't work out for them guest: sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. again, it's a question of whether or not, you know, are the students, are the athletes in programs they want to be in, are they being put in programs simply to help keep them eligible? or you know, and how is all that working? and again, in some places, it works really well, in other places, it has not worked well, and there have been instances, for example, the university of north carolina, where there's been a lot of publicity recently about an academic scandal there where people were -- athletes were being funneled into an academic program that has been proven and shown not to be particularly rigorous or well monitored, and there have been a lot of problems like that. host: we had a chance to discuss with several big 10

presidents on a series we did recently, one of them was the head of michigan state, lu anasimon. she talked about her perspective on the student athletes. let's get her perspective and you can comment on it. >> we have scholarship student athletes who are both men and women whose graduation rates are as a whole about the same as our student body. obviously, there are a few individuals who come to the university who leave a big early to pursue their athletic interest, but we see all of our students, no matter their athletic skills as students first and athletes second and provide academic support for them to be successful. we've also had programs to ensure that student athletes return to graduate and stay connected with us. two examples currently might be

justin abdelkader who's playing hockey for the detroit red wings who e-mails me because he's within six credits to get the degree. you can look at steve smith, who's a commentator on basketball making a terrific income after his professional playing career, has finished his career and stayed connected to michigan state and is a role model for almost every student athlete we have. so the media tends to focus on the 1% of students who are really the -- the student athletes who are not indicative of our students who receive scholarships as a part of our athletic program. host: anything to say to that guest: i think there's a focus on the media, the 1% as it were, but i think it's a little greater than 1%, the football players and mens basketball players and those are the people involved in sports and the people most interested and the ones that are on television the

most and so on. you notice, and you're going to hear this over and over and over again, with administrators or whatever, referring to the student athlete and, you know, that's a term that's sort of evolved out of the ncaa itself, to try to make it sound like there's, you know, it's a equal deal. and in the minds of a lot of athletes, that's not the case, that in many instances for a lot of these guys, the athletics comes equivalent to, if not first, because of the time demands involved. host: you're in a different role and that's what you're there for guest: yeah, and there's no point in kidding around about it. the demands made on these guys and these women are significant, and in terms of what's going on outside of season, things that are -- practices that are so-called optional. yeah, they're optional to the extent that you don't want to do them, you'll lose your position on the team to somebody wodoes. whether or not they're mandatory or optional, it's all the same, and so the time demands on them

are really, really significant. and, you know, athletes who were -- who testify in, you know, the bannon trial this summer talked about some of that and, you know, for sure, there are decisions, but those guys make those, and that was shown on cross examination, that there's plenty of down time these guys spend playing video games or, you know, watching tv marathons. so there's a lot of -- there's plenty of time to do things and there are decisions that are made. but again, the time demands that are made on these folks are considerab considerable. host: for those not following, the o'bannon trial was guest: a case revolving around the use of athletes' names and likenesses and whether or not the athletes were being compensated for the use. whether or not it's through live television, through re-broadcast of games, through all kinds of different uses, their image and likeness. what has happened at the

district court level is the athletes were awarded -- and the suit was made partially on their behalf that would open the possibility of athletes getting on a deferred basis compensation for their participation in sports. monetary, your actual dollars as opposed to simply a college scholarship, which currently is the cost of room, books, tuition and fees, the schools in the major conferences are going to, in january, in all likelihood change that definition so that a college athletic scholarship would cover those things, plus the actual cost of attendance, which could involve transportation back and forth to and from school and other incidentals, although that becomes a very complicated discussion as to how you determine cost of attendance. host: let's hear from some people calling about questions about college athletic programs. darrell from pennsylvania, an educator, you're up first, go ahead. caller: i appreciate the time

to ask you this question. i'm an ncaa character coach in high school in new castle, pennsylvania, and i have just been introduced in the last two years to this program. in our program, you know, it reaches into the lives of the student athletes, and we try to support them. and the support produces a more quality player, a more quality student, and we have volunteers. do you find this in the colleges as well as in high schools? have you heard of any of this? guest: in terms of the type -- in terms of what type of support are you providing? caller: well, providing academic support, we're providing emotional support, in other words, my job, and i always -- they say, what's your job, and i say, my job is working with the kid who comes off, throws his helmet, drops

the "f" bomb, gets all excited, and we try to bring him into control and we find out there's a problem at home. we find out that there's a problem, you know, in his studies, we find out, and we use the support to be able to help them, and how i'm making this transition into what you're saying is that in colleges, there is a lot of down time. host: you're serving more like a mentor. you're wondering if colleges have some type of similar kind of incentive? caller: i'm wondering whether you've checked into any of this and what's your opinion of that? guest: okay. i think there are considerable support programs that are put out there for the athletes both in terms of their academics, as well as in other areas of their lives, and i think that schools do make an effort to try to support them in terms of their mental and psychological health and mental health. and i think there's been greater awareness, for example, of concussions and the impact of that that's kind of had. i think there's also, you know, help that's offered for guys on

an emotional -- in some schools, there's a pretty -- there's a significant spiritual element to this in some programs, so i think some schools are making an effort to do this. i think there are places where it could get better. we saw problems this year with how michigan football programs dealt with concussions and athlete injuries, and i think schools are getting more and more aware of that just the way professional sports are, but there is that kind of support available to athletes. host: a parent in abilene, texas, don, go ahead. caller: good morning. i was a player and a parent, my son plays at northwestern and i played at ucla about 40 years ago and i think there's a lot of ignorance out there as to how an athletic scholarship was paid for. i went to school at a time when all the ills were blamed on the

football players in the world and i'd like you to explain how a scholarship -- it's really not a scholarship, it's a grant and aid, and it's outside the general scholarship of the school, correct guest: yes, the athletic department tends to run their own scholarship programs. that's true. if you're asking how are they paid for, by and large, the money that backs all the athletics programs and generated by the athletics programs. there's also subsidies put into the athletics programs by the university and the amount of money put into the programs, institutional funding, or fees, vary school to school. there are only seven programs that were available, that received no type of subsidy. so, i mean, there's definitely involvement of general university funds or dedicated

student athletic funds or fees, is that what you're getting at? host: he's gone, but the concept of fees, do students who aren't involved in athletic programs have an option to say i'd like my funds put to something else other than the sports program guest: no, there are fees specifically to support student programs. in exchange, you're given discounted tickets to events or free admission to events, but the athletic fees in the vast majority of cases, those are not optional. they're mandatory fees, just like the fee that you get charged to help support the computer structure, the phone system, the bus system, whatever else. it's part and parcel of the fee structure of the university. host: for football and basketball, how much of the revenue that's comprised, especially from ncaa, comes from television guest: a lot of it comes from television, either through the arrangements that the conferences make for football, which is where a lot of that money comes from, or it also

comes from the ncaa from money that comes out of the television contract for the ncaa menz basketball tournament. but the football television money is a much bigger driver in those conferences that have the bigger television contracts, the five major conferences, the atlantic coast, big 10, big 12, sec and the pack 12. host: chesh ir, connecticut, a student, you're on with steve, good morning. caller: good morning. first and foremost, steve, thanks for disclosing all the information that you do, it's very helpful guest: thanks. caller: no problem. but i wanted to make a comment and i wanted to just hang up after that. i hear all of this stuff going on about the ncaa and how, you know, athletes should be thankful for scholarships, being a former athlete myself, it is the biggest prophecy i've ever

witnessed. you cannot sit here and tell me that athletes cannot be paid money when i see a coach like nick sabin making $7 million, having a $3 million home paid for. i see a coach that's been hard bald getting offered $8 million and then i see a kid and 10 girls suspended because he made a few bucks off the auto graph. you cannot argue that a kid receives this scholarship when the colleges are making hundreds of millions of dollars off their backs. it will never add up and equalize. these kids, most of them, have not asked to come to school for the most part. a lot of them are forced to come to school because they have to meet a requirement to become a professional athlete, when we're talking about the 1% that that michigan state president had the nerve to get up there and talk about, okay, it's a free marketing scheme, so the professional sport will never get involved, because they want

free marketing. it helps the athlete be able to land on their feet and run as soon as they're drafted. host: mark, can i ask you where you went to school and what sport you played? caller: i went to -- i actually went to school a few years ago, i went to cory px. host: did you go on scholarship yourself? caller: i did. host: what did you play. caller: i played a sport. i'm not going to disclose that. host: okay. thank you. guest: what he's raising are really significant issues. there is a lot of consonnance within the ncaa about what athletes are getting in relation to the salaries that coaches are being paid and the amounts of revenue being generated by the coo schools. that's a big piece of what's going on in the o'bannon trial and a big piece of what's going on in other litigation pending against the ncaa, and in the conferences.

host: we have a listing of some of those average pay per head coach, by your department at southeastern, $3.7 million, average, big $123.3 -- big 12, $3.3 million guest: they're making 3 to $7 million a year in college football. it's serious money. that's the reason why people are finding sort of this inecequity in college in terms of what college athletics are to receive and it's something that those schools and major conferences are eager to try to address in terms of expanding what a scholarship covers in the cost of attendance. i think schools have begun to recognize in part because they've been forced by legal actions to recognize that the amounts of revenue that's being generated through these programs is so gigantic, and the salaries being paid are so gigantic that there is this imbalance that has

developed over time. you know, and they have to -- and they are trying to address that. now, whether or not that's going to be sufficient, remains to be seen. host: there's a movement to unionize athletes guest: that's true, and there's a case pending before the national labor relations board about the effort that the northwestern university football team was present with, with the option to unionize, and whether or not, you know, how that will turn out, the regional director of the nrlb, found out they were employees of the university. the university appealed to the national labor relations board as a whole, it was thought that the nlrb would issue a ruling because one of the five members of the board, nancy scheffer's term was expiring on december 16. there was a thought a decision would be made by then. there's still decisions trickling out with an issued date of december 16 so it's still possible we'll see

something, but it's also possible that with the new composition of the board that they'll deal with it because the perception of it is that this case will continue to be appealed and litigated through the various procedures within the nlrb and potentially into the court. host: as part of our big 10 series we talked with the university of iowa president sally mason, with unionizing athletes, something she's opposed to, and here's why. >> i would say to see that. i really view our student athletes as students first. our student athletes perform not only well above the school average when it comes to graduation and gpa, but also well above the national average. they take their studies and their academic piece here very seriously. amateur athletics needs to stay amateur. we need to provide a great environment for our student athletes and make sure they have all the support they need, whether it's support for

academics, whether it's support to keep them healthy. i'm all for making certain that we continue to add some benefits for them, that we provide higher quality opportunities for them, but i really would hate to see them think of themselves as employees rather than as student athletes. i think that really is not what i look to college sports for. host: mr. berkowitz guest: that's great, and that's the position that's held by college presidents. the nlrb, however, took a different view of it, and the regional director decision, the common-law definition, an employee is a person who performs services for another under a contract of hire, subject to the others' control or right of control, and in return for payment, and in a lot of peoples' minds, that's exactly what's going on in college athletics, that there's a contract of hire and that the

national letter of intent or the scholarship agreement that the students sign from year to year, that they're compensated, that a athletic scholarship is worth tens of thousands of dollars. in usa today several years ago, we looked at what the potential value of what a mens scholarship is, if you look at the value of everything that's part of that, the coaching, if you were to go out and try to get that on your own, other benefits that athletes get along the way, without trying to put a dollar value on the exposure, that the athletes get from playing on television and so on, we found it to be $125,000 a year. so, i mean, there is compensation. now, that could be used as an argument back in the other direction. look at all the benefits that the athletes are getting, you know, this is a pretty equitable system. i mean, this goes back and forth about this but, you know, there's no question that this is something that continues

to be highly debated and i know the schools are trying, as president mason said, they're trying to figure out a way to try to bring some more equitablity to it, because i think even in the most academically minded people who are thinking in terms of college sports in the most traditional old-line sense recognize that things have changed, and the business of college sports has changed, and it's a business, and there's no getting around that. and, yes, student athletes are going to school, they're having to go to school and attend classes to stay eligible, and that's a big piece of it, but there's a lot more going on there, and there's a lot more of what's going on there than used to be the case not that long ago. host: in georgia, charlie, a parent, for our guest steve werkowitz, go ahead. caller: yes, i'm of the age when title 9 came into play, but

i don't think the general public is quite knowledgeable about title 9. could mr. berkowitz explain, does title 9 mean that the college just has to have the same amount of students on scholarship, or does that mean that the college spends a million dollars on mens sports, does it have to spend a million dollars on womens sports and does title 9 go down to k-12? thank you. guest: the answer to the last question is, yes, you see title 9 complaints filed at the high school level so that does apply. in terps of what constitutes compliance with title 9, at the basic level, it's opportunity. how do you measure that becomes a more different and subjective problem, and some of that has to do with dollars spent. some of it has to do with the proportion of the athletes at the school and whether or not that matches the proportion of

men and women in the general student population, and there are a variety of ways this is looked at, but it's not strictly about dollars and cents, and it's the same amount of spending, and it's not strictly about one thing or another. there are sort of safe harbors that schools can use as targets for compliance with title 9, but a lot of this is subjective, and it's -- you know, sometimes it comes down to what happens when the department of education, office of civil rights, deals with making examinations of athletics programs when complaints are filed. but it's a very -- it can be a very squishy area. host: another parent. fort collins, colorado. bob, go ahead. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i want to talk about the arms race in the facilities. colorado state university in fort collins is abandoning their football stadium, about 45 years old, to build and cram on campus a $363 million facility and the

whole program loses $25 million a year last year. guest: there is no question that facilities have become a huge area of competition among schools, that the, you know, the luxuryiousness of training facilities and stadiums are being viewed as sort of recruiting tools to bring in athletes, and whether or not -- also, they're revenue generating investments for schools to bring in luxury suites and other kinds of higher priced seating, whether it's club seats or other ways to do that to generate revenue because schools are able to charge premiums on top of ticket prices in order to to help generate revenue for the athletics program as well as pay for the facilities themselves so there's no question this is a huge area of competition for

athletics programs and there is some questioning as to whether or not this is the best way for athletics programs to be spending their money, and enough is enough. do you have to have leather chairs and, you know, plasma television screens in front of every locker stall in order for it to be state of the art and all these kinds of things, and yeah, it is a serious issue for schools because they're putting themselves into enormous debt situations that are long term, and so some of the money that schools are getting, from enhanced television contracts, some of that money -- a lot of that money in many cases has already been spent because of long term commitments that have been made in building facilities. in some places, it works out great because they're able to sell luxury suites that help finance the cost of those stadiums. in some places, it doesn't work out so well, and it's been problematic for the schools, but there is no question there is this so-called sort of arms race

going on about this stuff. host: a viewer asked on twitter, is there donations without the programs? guest: the university of california looked at this carefully and involved the faculty, and they found there is definitely a connection between, you know, some giving to the university from people who also give heavily to the athletics program and their affinity for the university generally was driven in part by the athletics program and there was real fear on campus -- and again, this is a group of people that involved faculty people, at cal, there was significant concern about, okay , if we drop sports, what impact will it have on the overall funding structure. at the same time, programs are competing for donor dollars, endowments and other projects and there is definitely competition within schools for

dollars that will be donated directly to athletics as opposed to dollars donated to the general fund of the university. host: student athletes, are their names used for merchandising purposes and do they see anything for that? guest: under the ncaa's rules, they're not supposed to be using the athletes' names or likenesses. for example, you can't buy a jersey that has the athlete's name on it. on the other hand, it's not coincidental when johnny manziel, for example, was playing at texas a&m, that the replica football jerseys that were sold in the school book store through the university had the number "2" on them, and also jay billis from espn has done a really good job of pointing out certain issues that the ncaa, he found that these jerseys in some cases were being marketed with the athlete's name. it didn't have the athlete's name on the shirt but said, okay, this is the johnny manziel

jersey. it's not coincidental which shirt numbers, which numbers are being put on the jerseys that are being put out there for sale. people make those connections between the numbers and those players. host: nothing goes through the student. everything goes through the program guest: correct. the athletes themselves aren't getting money in terms of royalty or anything like that. again, do the athletes benefit from the money generated from the sales that goes back to the universities? sure, because the underlying funding for their scholarships and the facilities and everything else comes out of the athletics program, but is a particular athlete, marcus mariota, the quarterback at arizona, getting royalty payment off the jersey that is have his shirt number on it? no. host: al, from pennsylvania, you're up next, hi. caller: apparently, we're under rationale, that jerry sandusky, who had helped the penn state

football team to an unfair football advantage on the field, when mr. sandusky was jailed for child abuse. the ncaa fined penn state $60 million. it told them they could no longer play in bowl games for a number of years. they reduced the number of football scholarships they were allowed to give, and they wiped out all of coach paterno's victories over the years. wasn't this a very harsh and unfair treatment by the ncaa? thank you. guest: harsh, yes. unfair? that's a debatable point and something that will be litigated in a case in the pennsylvania state courts that got expanded, because initially the issue was a question of whether or not the money that was fined -- the fine that was levied against the university would have to be spent within the state of pennsylvania and in that case expanded in a way that it's sort

of becoming a question about whether -- about the ncaa's ability to meet out certain of these kinds of penalties and the ncaa is being placed in a potentially tough spot in a state court and that's going to be coming up, i believe, in february. so it's a topic of ongoing litigation. host: we're talking about college athletic programs, a topic that came up in our recent big 10 series where we interviewed the presidents of big 10 colleges. that series is still available on our c-span website and you can watch the interviews themselves. let's here from a caller from louisiana. caller: i have a couple of questions. host: go ahead. caller: my first question is, is there a particular univers y university, like kentucky, in basketball, every year, every year, they have like 17 to 19 all americans. this particular university gets

13 or 14. and no one determines what is all involved. in football, i have a kid that plays football over numerous amount of years, go undefeated. but because of moneys, we can't go to a major bowl, but alabama does, and usc does and all the rest does. my third and final question, if i need an education in biology or law, why is it that an athlete after one or two years can leave and go and pursue their career, but as a biology major or education major, i can't leave? host: thanks, carl guest: i'm not quite sure what you're asking in the third question, but in terms of what's going on with the university of

kentucky basketball program, the bigger issue with what's going on in kentucky is the way john calipari, the coach there, has used sort of the one and done system that's been set up under the collective bargaining with the nba, that's required basketball players to go to school for at least one year and what calipari has done, and he's been successful at it, so it's drawn more and more players, is that it's taking these guys and they win and prepares them for pro careers, they go to school one year and leave and go on to the pros, and he's managed to continue to keep recruiting and drawing more athletes and players in, and he's got a team that is playing louisville today, and many people are thinking they want kentucky to lose a game this season and basically they've accumulated basically 10 guys who are largely interchangeable and put together a power-house team of guys, many of whom are viewed as nba prospects, many of whom will

only be in school for one year, and whether or not that sort of makes a mockery of the entire educational system where they're having to be eligible essentially to maintain eligible through the fall semester. there are reasons for them to maintain eligibility through the spring, as if they were coming back, would create problems for kentucky if they weren't but, you know, that's an issue, whether or not that's what college should be about, and college sports should be about, is college athletes coming in one year to play ball, being out and that's basically what they're doing. host: a viewer asking if a student athlete, if he or she is on scholarship, are they required to pay any money if they don't graduate to go pro guest: no, they're not required to repay money if they turn pro. their issue is being able to come back to school to complete their degrees. when presidents talk about benefits they're trying to put in place for school and athletes

to come back to school, schools are getting more and more, you know, aggressive about trying to create opportunities for athletes to come back to school if they leave early to turn pro. host: is the ncaa making any effort to self-regulate if the program, its organization, if i understand, 40 or so coaches and the like, are formed as special counsel to oversee these kind of issues or take a look at them? guest: well, i mean, the ncaa itself as an association, the member schools, it's created for the purpose of self regulation. i mean, that's the whole idea. the question is whether or not that self regulation is working. and whether or not that's resulting in something that sufficiently is beneficial to the athletes or not. but, you know, the ncaa isn't some , you know, third-party group. yes, there are staff people who work in the employ of the association, who are based in indianapolis and charged with interpreting rules and enforcing

rules and overall running the association. but in terms of the rules-making piece of this, the ncaa is the schools. and i think folks, you know, sort of lose sight of that, that the rules making is done by the schools themselves. and so that's -- whether or not the schools are doing a sufficiently good job of that remains to be seen. i mean, a judge in -- a federal judge in california said, not so much, and is prepared to impose the system on the schools, and you know, so there are definitely people just passionate observers of the system who think the schools aren't doing a good job. host: the republican charlie of pennsylvania introduced the athletes accountability act, takes a wide look at a variety of things. is college interested in sports and how it's regulated and worked out guest: there's an element of

congress interested in this. the question is how big of congress is interested. there is clearly a significant vocal group of congressmen and senators who have taken an issue in these issues as they have come up. whether or not there's a sufficiently large number of them to effect change remains to be seen. i mean, there have been a number of bills that have been introduced, that were introduced last year and some that were introduced late in the session as well. tony cardonas from california, and jim moran, who's left now, from virginia, have produced bills. bill was sponsored by representative beatty. there have been a lot of cosigners to these bills, there have been letters written to the ncaa in response to these questions. there have been hearings on this. the question is whether or not there is sufficient level of willpower in congress to get involved in a way that potentially will legislate some

things, or whether or not just the force of congress pulling people onto capitol hill, to have to respond to questions, to appear at hearings, and whether or not that's sufficient to get peoples' attention in college athletics to produce movement. host: steve berkowitz from usa today, here to talk about college athletic programs. sam, from georgia, go ahead. caller: good morning. host: hi. caller: i have a comment. i really feel like starting at the nfl level, that big money and -or organized crime moves the nfl. and i hate to see it filtrating into college athletics, but if you really watch a lot of football games, you kind of wonder why certain teams win, and i'm not an ohio state fan nor a wisconsin fan, but they

are no better than wisconsin, but this so-called playoff group and how they organize it, thank you. guest: you know, he's getting at some pretty serious allegations. there have been scandals in college athletics, but when he's talking about the score of the big 10 championship games, that's a pretty serious allegation that you're making there, with regard to ohio state beating wisconsin as bad as they did and whether or not that had to do with anything. host: margaret, good morning. caller: hi, there, mr. berkowitz. my daughter was a highly recruited gymnast in high school, and ultimately went to several colleges to look at programs and she decided on ohio

state and made a lot of decisions about we know what you want to do, we love that you know what your major is, but the minute pretty much she got on campus, she was told she had to change her major or she would lose her scholarship. anyway, it's a revolving door with gymnastics at ohio state, and we as parents tried to get involved. jim smith oversees gymnastics, because there's been a problem with the program. basically the conclusion was pretty much if it's not football, we don't care. it's not a money-making sport, and we got no help, no support from the academic side when we kept asking why she was being recruited. they knew it when she was recruited that she was this

major, but ultimately, there was no support from anyone in academics at ohio state guest: gene smith is the athletics director at ohio state. these are the kinds of things we were talking about earlier in the show with regard to clustering in majors and athletes being funneled into certain major programs and in many instances, athletes are told, look, you can be pre-med if you want, but there's a lot of really hard courses in pre-med and if you don't get a certain grade point average you'll risk your eligibility because you don't do well in the classes that are really hard to deal with, even without playing sports, that if you don't do well enough in those classes, then you're not going to be able to play. and athletes then, you know, a lot of times athletes will say, okay, that's not maybe such a great idea and there are some athletes who persevere and get it done. there are plenty of football players who become doctors.

and there are lots of people who go on to law school who are gymnasts, and these are decisions the students have to make and it's not easy. again, it gets into the whole issue of time commitment, and it's a tough balancing act, but whether or not the degree to which athletes are supported in their academic choices gets into -- again, it's a school-by-school situation. some athletes find it to be really fulfilling, other athletes not so much. there's no question what the caller was talking about there, that the experiences are out there, and they're real, and those things happen, and they're not just happening in football and mens' basketball. they're happening in gymnastics, swimming, track athletes, and it happens across the board. host: mike from pennsylvania. good morning, go ahead. caller: okay, earlier, you had a call from another penn state

alumni and it brought up the fairness issue with what happened to penn state. you didn't seem to have an opinion about the fairness issue and what he was referring to was sandusky who was a criminal who was tried, convicted, and sent to jail, and the ncaa punishes the president, team, players, coaches, students, and alumni who had absolutely nothing to do with what sandusky did, and that is the fairness issue that everybody in pennsylvania is discussing. guest: the fairness issue that everybody in pennsylvania is discussing and everybody associated with the university of southern california football program were discussing when the ncaa was dealing with reggie bush or any of these programs, it's very difficult to punish people for past deeds so you can't retroactively punish penn state short of taking away victories and that's proven to be a punishment that people

don't really recognize, you know, you take away victories and people say well they played the games, won the games and the general public's mind, that's the way those games were decided. so yeah, i mean, there's no question that the ncaa's enforcement structure creates a circumstance where athletes and schools in the present are being punished for deeds in the past, and that's partially because it's so difficult for the ncaa to try it enforce these rules and the whole enforcement procedures that are involved, they lack subpoena power. it's very difficult for these cases to be adjudicated quickly, so by the time they get found out about and investigated and adjudicated, you're dealing with something that occurred two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, and then how do you hold the school accountable for something that occurred there without punishing athletes who had nothing to do with it and potentially coaches who had nothing to do with it, and it's a very difficult situation for the ncaa to deal with, and the

alternative is that, you know, there's no rules, and we can do whatever they want, and that's not what the schools want. host: let's hear from dave, a student from omaha, nebraska. good morning. caller: good morning. you sent like the diversity along the lines of title 9, that the ncaa would institute religious and racial, along those lines. guest: i'm sorry, i'm not clear on your question. caller: well, i think like the female athletics quotas, do you think they would ever institute a quota system for religious or racial diversity on campuses? guest: i don't think that the ncaa would have anything to do with that. i mean, the title 9 is a federal law, and that's where that comes from. that's not from the ncaa. that was passed by congress. i think the ncaa has made some effort to try to bring, you know, diversity in terms of its governance panels, that are

involved in rules making, to try to have women involved, to try to have minorities involved, to try to balance those things out, but, you know, having that sort of quotas or having that legislated, in terms of athlete involvement, i think is not going to happen. host: one more call for our guest, chris from grand park, illinois, hi. caller: good morning. i'd like to know, student athletes who are injured and they cannot continue to, you know, through the rest of the four years, do they lose the scholarships, or let's say they are injured to the point where it affects their performance? do those students lose their scholarships? guest: under the current system, it is possible for that to happen. at the moment, scholarships at many schools are renewable annually. in theory, that's not supposed

to happen. you're not supposed to lose your scholarship for injury or because, you know, you proved not to be quite as good a player as they had hoped when you were recruited or things like that, but the fact of the matter is that kind of thing does occur. now, the ncaa is trying and schools and conferences are starting to institute or pledge to institute systems that will result in scholarship commitments in what are called head count sports where each athlete occupies an entire athletic scholarship, football, mens basketball, womens basketball, volleyball, other sports like that, where the commitment is made for four years, as long as the athlete lives up to certain academic and behavioral rules. now, again, some of that's going to be subjective and it'll be interesting to see how these things are put into practice. but whether or not -- but those kinds of commitments for four-year colleges may not be there in sports such as soccer and baseball where schools are

allowed to divide scholarships among individual athletes, so you may have 24 athletes on a team sharing 12 scholarships. those awards may not be recognized entirely for four years as they go along, and those also may become -- those also may remain renewable from year to year but i think that's something that a lot of people don't understand is that scholarships at the present are not required to be four-year commitments. they can be and are renewable annually. host: our guest writes about sports and does projects for sports for usa today, steve berkowitz. if you want more information about his information and writing, go to the usa today website. thank you, guest: thank you. host: in the wall street journal today, there is a story taking a look at civic education and states trying to make a better push. she writes recent national reports says students can -- it

covers such topics as how to apply certain events. about 2/3 of students tested below proficient of the national education progress in 2006 and 2010. a column over, the story goes on to talk about coalitions in seven states that are pushing to require students to pass the us citizenship exam before they can graduate. by the end of next year, proponents plan to introduce legislation to 12 to 15 stats. with that in mind, we're interested in hearing from you for the final half hour of the program about civics education, and if you think it should be a mandatory part of a school curriculum. here's how you can weigh in this morning, 202-748-8001, for republicans. 748-8000, for democrats. 748-8002 for independents, and

202-748-8003 for if you want to call in there. again, should civics education be mandatory? you can call in or use twitter as well. i want to point you to our guest, governor steve bullock, the governor from montana, and the association chair talking to reporters about a lot of topics, including money that's flowing into campaigns from outside groups. guest: truly, i think one of the biggest issues to our dachshu democracy and our representative government is the amount of money pouring into the system and the amount of disclosed money. the i was attorney general before governor, took a montana law, all the way up to the supreme court, post citizens united. we lost it on a 5-4 decision. even the last legislative decision brought a bipartisan bill to say, you know, if we're

going to have to work under these rules, these new rules of the road that the supreme court put down, at least let's find out who the wizards is behind the curtain. let's disclose the dollars. we just got done with the 2014 midterms. a billion dollars was spent in the congressional races by outside groups. on the republican side, 75% of that was undisclosed dollars. so i think we do need to do significantly more for transparency. but as suggested, at the same token, i don't think it makes sense as we're doing that to make sure that every individual voters' voice matters. you can't even have that discussion if you also don't have a seat at the table, and it certainly wouldn't make sense for -- because of, i guess, my distaste for the amount of dollars, in the overall process, that we just say, all right, we're going to fold our cards up and watch all this money come

into our states. host: governor bullock, does that mean they'll try to be more transparent going forward? can we find out what those agendas are? guest: i think weeks into this, and really trying to get a sense of what all the overall budget is, yeah, i think at the end of the day, if we're going to be spending money in elections, we ought to know where that money is coming from. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our question for this last half hour deals with civics education and should it be a mandatory requirement for schools. usa today has a story this morning that takes a look at some states that want to make that happen and we want to get your thoughts on it as well. again, the numbers 202-8frael-8001 for republicans, 8000, for democrats, 8002 for independents. should civics education be mandatory?

democratic line, good morning. caller: good morning. i teach government in chelsea, and, of course, i believe civics should be mandatory, but my perspective on civics would be it's more to engage in issues and find out what your issues are instead of gerrymandering, just helping kids through critical analysis of current events and not through some type of state mandated test. host: aside from the students you teach, what do you think is the perception about students minded civics issues? do they show an issue? caller: yeah, especially in new york city, given the garner case and the recent funerals for the police officers, there's been a high interest in those affairs. budgetary matters, students are really excited about the cr

resolution. it does vary but it also depends on how the media portrays it and how they engage with them. host: that's patrick, the vice president set to speak at the funeral today this morning, new york city, joe biden speaking at that as well as the new york may mayor. brandt from tennessee, good morning, go ahead. caller: good morning. seasons' greetings. thank you for taking my call. i'd like to take it a step further. not only should it be in school, it should be a mandatory national service. at first, i was thinking six to 12 months, but after talking to somebody who spent 30 years in the service, she said, 12 to 24 months. so if there's, you know, not as much turnover and the skills can be transferred. so i'm talking national service that includes civics education, not just in the military police, hear me out, agriculture, for t

forestry, environment, education and health care, and we'll call it a lotta party if you want. host: kyle from rapid city michigan. should it be mandatory? caller: hi, this is kyle from rapid city. yes, i absolutely think it should be. i think the first two callers have been excellent, and also, if you connect, the decline in civics education in high schools, it can be connected to the cline in border roles. if we have public education that's not teaching civics and civic involvement in the governmental process of our democracy, then the government has been defunded, civics education to the point where you have uninformed populous that doesn't vote. therefore, the decline in the voter roles. host: the usa today story provides a chart taking a look into the education department civics test providing benchmarks when it comes to civics education, says you are considered advanced in the

fourth grade if you can name two rights of u.s. citizens and explain their importance. in eighth grade, considered advanced if you can give an example of how the media influences policy, and your senior year fyou can compare the citizenship requirements of the u.s. to other countries, you're advanced. that's just some other examples. they list proficient, basic, and below basic knowledge when it comes to civics education. should it be required? several groups across the united states looking to do that in their states. we're asking you if that's a good idea. carrie from cleveland, ohio. go ahead. caller: hey, it's actually cleveland, alabama. host: oh, i'm sorry. caller: it's quite all right. i find it very interesting that your liberal caller educator was more concerned about social justice than the actual facts about our great history. and it's alarming, it's

something i've experienced first hand with my daughters. i'm glad they're out of high school and have gotten a full, well rounded education inside and outside the home, but yeah, it's just very disturbing to me that, yeah, we should require some sort of standard of knowing where -- how this great country came about, what makes us great, and it's alarming to hear the liberal agenda so you know, functioning so highly, and in elementary and secondary education. host: carrie, did your schools have a separate civics class, or is it part of social studies? how does that work in alabama? caller: it was part of a social studies class, and it was minimal, you know, alabama, we have our own struggles, but yeah, it was limited, and it's unfortunate. you know, when i was young, we had special

programs, of course, i was in a different education system that was well funded, but yeah, there was more emphasis put on, you know, the wars that we fought, why we fought them, and the liberal agenda is -- i see it alive and well even in the reddest of red states of alabama, teachers kind of putting forth their own, you know, liberal slant on art history. it's troubling and alarming. host: that's carrie in alabama calling on the republican line. owen from new york calling on the democratic line. caller: hello, it's owen from florida. i disagree with the lady about civics. canadians, they went to school -- they knew the vice president, they could talk about the constitution, they could talk about electors of the united states. i think it's a vital part of education for students to know about their constitution, how

the government works and, yes, have political opinions about elections. i always try to do that. i have debates in my class. i taught esl in 1984. i had a debate between reagan people and mondale people, a good way to learn english and civics. civics is a vital part of education and i think all states should have it. and i just don't think it's a liberal thing. the constitution is the constitution and you can form opinions later. that's my opinion. host: to continue calls on this topic, the pages of the "washington post" this morning taking a look at next year's agenda. the president, when it comes specifically to trade, according to the headline, looking to republicans in congress. the story goes on to say, at issue is the support for the transpacific partnership which would establish the largest free trade zone. last year, congress blocked the

house push for labor in an election year, and since the mid-terms, the president has ramped up his personal engagement meetings at an international economic summit and touting that the potential benefits of fast track authorities, it's known, in washington. yet democrats continue to criticize the tpp as little more than repacking a previous trade deal such as the north american free trade agreement. walter in baltimore, maryland, asking about civics education, should it be mandatory? hello. caller: not only should it be mandatory, but it should be part of what these so-called people hate about common core. the ignorance of america is awrie. the greatness of the ignorance is for sale is what our flag should stand for, for sale. because this lady earlier mentioned the greatness of america. i want her to tell me what greatness was in vietnam.

what greatness was in the political structure that actually resulted in a degradation of humanity through slavery. i respectfully ask them to take a look at common core and add civics and other courses of reality, truth. that's liberal. liberal is truth. conservative is lies and the status quo, and i think that if we don't allow students a reality-based existence, we're going to lose. host: john, atlanta, georgia, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. yeah, i agree that the civics should be taught because the word "civics" is root word for civil living, as well as civilization. host: should it be mandatory though? caller: of course it should be mandatory because you cannot

learn about the process of democracy and the constitution versus statutory law without learning about, you know, the citizens' sovereignty, so to be in touch with the constitution, be in touch with the legal parameters and, et cetera, you have to know civics. you have to know about democracy and the foundation. host: when you went to school, did you have civics classes? were they rolled into social studies class? how did it work? caller: back in '64, that's when i graduated, and before that time, we learned of -- it was strictly civics. there wasn't no sociology or anything like that, it was strictly civics. we learned about the -- how to be good citizens, how to

function in the home. how to function outside the home. host: in north dakota, there is an effort to make civics education a requirement for graduating for high school students. just to give you some of the details, it says that language for the bill is yet to be written. it would likely adhere to a draft bill used by other states, the draft bill calls for a passing 60% of a 100-question test given to high school students as a condition for graduation or general education development certificate. the 100 questions will be the same as those given by the u.s. citizenship and immigration services to give immigrant applicants u.s. citizenship. that's just north dakota's initiative. there are a number of other initiatives as well to make civics part of the curriculum. asking your thoughts on that, 202-748-8001 for republicans, 8000, for democratics.

for independents, 8002. jeb bush, cutting ties to a health care organization in the "washington post". this is the one that has ties to obama care saying it's the for-profit hospital chain, tenet health care announcing that jeb bush would step down from the board of directors by year end. bush who had served on the board since 2007 is starting to cut his business ties for the republican-run presidential nomination. he's given up a lucrative board post. last year, he earned $128,000 in cash. and he sat on the board during a particularly profitable time during the company. so where does jeb bush stand on the sleeping health care law? in march 2013, the former governor of florida urged the state not to expand medicate but bungled the facts on how the state-federal health care program for the poor is financed. the story goes on from there. it says also that tenet has

benefitted greatly from the affordable care act. that full story in pages of the washington post and other newspapers this morning. from new york, jason, on a republican line, hi. caller: good morning. how are you? host: fine, thank you. caller: yes, i believe civics should be required. every citizen should understand the functions of government, administration, policy-making, how laws are made, how laws are enforced. as a matter of fact, i think it's because we don't have mandatory civics education that the voter turnout is so low, simply because the voters don't understand how government works. that's evident from the comments i hear oftentimes on c-span, which i listen to on a regular basis. there are even some so-called professional commentators that don't have a basic understanding of government, and that's embarrassing. host: on twitter, a viewer says it's sad that civics is not

history. it's truly sad. mandatory, this person says yes. laura lives in savanna, georgia, from the democratic line, you're up. caller: hi. this is my first time calling into c-span and i wanted to add something really quick. not only does civics education make you a better voter and more engaged, i think it will make you a better juror, and there's such a push in this country to avoid jury service and it should be something you should take privilege in as a citizen and i think civic education could reinstill that desire to serve the justice system and make it better. host: financial times this morning has a story taking a look at the recent announcement from the white house taking a look at cuba and how it shapes into presidential politics when it comes to florida, saying it's the president's move to normalize u.s.-cuban relations has the potential to reshape politics in the battle ground states by giving a chance to

cultivate ties with cubans. it could play a role in the 2016 election and its southern reaches are heart land for cuban americans who through decades threw a block behind anticommunicatist republicans. the u.s.-cuba policy is no longer the dominant factor in helping people vote. in a latino vote said only 33 percent said a candidate's position on cuba policy was very important in their decision to vote for him or her. tomas bilbao said cuba's policy was viewed as an indication of candidate's character, issues like jobs, security, health care that matter to them, which you would expect from other americans. robert lives in queensbury, new york, and we're asking folks about civics. should it be mandatory? caller: yes. good morning. in new york state, section 801

of the state education law was passed in 1941, and i'm quoting, it requires all teachers of the state to teach all children of the state in both public and private schools, the history, the meaning, the significance, and the effect of every provision of our new york state and the u.s. constitution, as well as the declaration of independence, and sadly, it has never been taught. i'm 75 years old. i was not taught. my grandson has just graduated high school this past year. he was never taught. generations have not been taught. the significance, the meaning, and the effect. by the time they graduate high school, all children by law of the state are to understand what's in our state and federal constitutions, and the declaration of independence, why it's there, how it got there, and the power and the significance of those provisions, and sadly, it has

not been taught. host: and that was robert. alejandro is next, from montgomery, illinois. caller: good morning. i'm a recent high school graduate so i am very aware of the problems with education. many callers are stating that they should be mandatory. but knowing the fact that many people in high school, the teenagers, have an apathetic view to their credit in general, and specifically share classes, and particularly those who are under-represented in politics are the ones who especially perform the worst than their more politically-aware counter parts in the class. host: how is civics education done in illinois? caller: in illinois, there's a constitution test, but it seems that there's a trend to phase that out. at my high school, it used to be mandatory to take a political

science class, but because of budget cuts in the education system, they have rolled poli-sci into u.s. and world history. host: go ahead. caller: yes, what i advocate in addition to a mandatory civics class is to improve upon what they're learning and so the only thing that they don't remember is, as mr. smith goes to washington, is that they do more and more political practice. i was a member of youth in government in high school, where we practiced model legislator, parliamentary procedure, and actually researching bills and introducing them. i think if students have a more tangible -- a more tangible view of the political process, there will be a greater take away. thank you. >> that's alejandro from illinois.

according to the civics test, you have a basic knowledge of civics by the fourth grade if you recognize that taxes are the main source of government funding. in the eighth grade, you should be able to identify a reason why a poll tax violates democratic ideals, and by the 12th grade as far as basic knowledge is concerned in civics education you can identify a constitutional issue in a supreme court case. kathy from troutville, virginia, democrat's line. caller: yes. i have been a teacher for 44 years, i have taught u.s. government and u.s. history. and civics and government are required not state of virginia and i think i agree kind of with the young man that just spoke, that teaching the facts and just memorizing the facts about what the government is doing and how it's set up is not going to work. i think we need to have a practical civics education program required in every state and in every school. it's very important for citizens to understand their importance throughout the whole process,

and they really can't do it unless they understand where they fit into the scheme of things, and i think the practical aspect of it is wonderful. unfortunately, that is set aside in regards to making sure you pass standardized tests, and that doesn't tell you that you're going to remember it, but that you're going to apply it later on in life. i think it's extreme leimportant. host: kathy, are you telling me there's separate civics and social studies classes as it were? caller: yes, the county i teach in, there's an eighth grade civics class that's taught and they're required to take u.svrjt s. government in their senior year, plus it's interwoven in the elementary curriculum as well. so they get several doses of it. but in most cases, the emphasis is focused on passing standardized tests at the end of the course, which inspires

interest in government and participation, and that is something that, you know, needs to be a part of the curriculum in every state, in every civics class. host: a viewer from twitter adds we should have mandatory civics, history, state and local history courses. forget the teaching of social studies. jim from new york, good morning, republican line, hi. caller: good morning, peter. yeah, i agree with the lady from virginia. there's nothing more important than civics. i saw a show not too long ago that a reporter was going through palestine asking about the hollocausholocaust, and the of palestine didn't know what the holocaust was. if you want to repeat history, forget about it. we have an important document written 236 years ago that our kids are not even taught anymore. there isn't a kid in new york that knows we have a new york

state constitution. and bob, my friend from albany, stole my thund er at 801 sectio, that our kids are supposed to have complete knowledge of the constitution, the underground railroad, things that are important. so if they're not being taught, obviously from the shows that you see on tv where they go to the street and ask kids who the vice president is, you know, all these different simple questions that they have no idea, that's what's coming. that's our generation that's coming. so no civics, no country. host: willy lives in michigan. independent line, we're asking folks about civic education, if it should be mandatory. willy, what do you think? caller: well, it's like i was saying, that it should be mandatory, along with some other things like teaching logic and

economics. these people call in, and they just say something, their own prejudices, things they have heard in their own environment, that makes them make the statement, but those two things should also be taught along with civics, is it's important for your own well being and maturity to learn civics and also for you to be logical about it, and to be economically knowledgeable about it. host: does michigan teach a civics class or is it all rolled into social studies/history kind of thing? caller: i'm not sure, but it's like the lady -- i agree with her from b-- i'm originally fro alabama and i had to take civics and this is going back to '64 and '65 in high school in birmingham, alabama, and we had to take a civics course. that was part of the history thing and you had to take that

to graduate. you had to have those credits to graduate, because that was -- i teach other things like current events and other things like that into the civics class. host: pam from ohio, on the republican line. caller: hi. i want to comment as a teacher that i do think it is very important, but we also have to realize that there's so many things that are important to so many that even with recently the installment of the high use of technology within the district that i work in that a lot of other things are actually being let go, and that's where we need to, as citizens, begin to really stand up and say these are the things that are important to me, which we are doing on the show, which we have to realize that every time, we put in something that is mandatory, something else has to be let go because of time restraints. host: let's take one more call. mary, salisbury, north carolina,

democrats' line. go ahead. caller: yes, i agree with the gentleman about if you do not teach history like the holocaust and slavery, then you are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. now, right now in north carolina, it's been brought up that they're rewriting the text books here. now, they're going to eliminate slavery and going to eliminate stuff like that, we're doomed. we've got to teach these people how this government operates, otherwise, we're going to get develop into a third-world country if we don't do something about our education system. host: that's mary from north carolina commenting on if civics education should be mandatory. here's the lineup from tomorrow's show. talking about his thoughts on the priorities for the 114th coming congress as republicans rule the senate and the house. you will also hear from john

folbert. he is the national president of the organization known as one in four, and also the higher education and student affairs professor from ohio state university, continuing on our college campus college issues segment. this one taking a look at sexual assault on campuses. that discussion will be tomorrow at 8:30. at 9:30, jack olman, association of the american editorial cartoonists for the sacramento bee. we'll talk about the role for editorial cartoons, issues of the day, and public opinion. we'll have all those segments tomorrow in the "washington journal" which comes your way at 7:00. we'll see you then. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]