and the international coalition is doing to stabilize iraq, because we're really on our back foot when it comes to information operations. so, you know, these guys are ambitious. they are not some kind of minor small group of concerned local citizens et cetera. in 2009, when the sawa was being set up these guys never disbanded. these guys never did biometrics. most of the movements came in, signed their little piece of paper, did the biometrics, which the iraqi government now holds on them, hezbollah never did that stuff. they just said, we might stop fighting you, but one day we'll fit you again, but for now we are willing to take the paycheck for being in, quote, a son of iraq. these guys are not from the minority like the sunni sawa. these guys are in charge of

mechanized unit capability. these guys have got multiple rocket launch systems and a regular resupply of ammunition coming from iran. these guys have got kurds forces come partcompartmented intelligence within their headquarters that are linking them to the kurds force drone operations overhead. iranian air support potentially or iraqi air support that's being facilitied by the iranians in some ways. they're well-armed networked into the ministry of interior and some of the other key iraqi security headquarters. they're transnational, linked to other aspects of the axis of resistance. so this is not -- these are people who will undermine your strategic independence going forward. luckily, bringing us around to the solution at the end i think a lot of the moderate shiite leadership in iraq recognize that, whether they're in the

political sphere, whether they're military men or whether they're in the religious sphere. iraqi military does not like militia. it never did. it doesn't like, i think, having to operate alongside the pmu's, even though it recognizes they have contributed blood, sweat and tears to stopping isil's advance. i have to give them that, absolutely. they deserve our respect as fighting men to some respect. and many of them deserve our full respect as fighting men because they have given everything, including their lives, to bring isis to a halt. but the institution that they're part of, and the forces that sit behind these often very good fighting men, we need to look at extremely closely. luckily, i think a lot of senior iraqi leaders agree with the u.s. that they are a threat. and luckily, we have seen in many cases in the past the iraqi shiite vote for iraq rather than vote for sectarianism and vote for iran. for instance, iran-iraq war. not really a shimmer of an

uprising against the iraqi state during the iran-iraq war. hundreds of thousands of shiite serving in the front lines. likewise basra. by and large, they believe in the iraqi state, even though they've had a pretty shocking deal from it, particularly over the last decade. p.m. maliki, he recognized, even though he did it for his own political benefit, that he needed to cut the legs out from underneath them, before they took basra. the iraqis understand -- senior leaders understand they need to do something about the pmu's and the sawa. they need to partially demobilize them. they need governs to say we don't need a national guard division, brigade, for this particular province. we're secure. a way of reducing the threat of

militia takeover in key provinces like basra. it's under ministry of defense. it's under the prime minister's office operational control. all these things are built into the national guard law. and they need to be. it's the struggle will be implementation because these guys and these iranian militias will try as hard as they can to take all the bits they like. we want to get paid, we want to have pensions, have vehicles maintained by the government, we want to have light arms provided by the government. but actually i think we'll keep our rocket launches. that's how they'll try and play it. but we need to stay on this. and this brings us back to the final point. by the way, some of these individuals, you know, the parties, are trying to keep a hand in the ministry of interior, even though it's run by an embattled rebel leader. so they have these guys that kill in senior deputy

positions. likewise bottom left-hand side you see this guy running the portfolio, i guess you could say, the national security advisory. again, some conservative elements of that party, conservative as in they don't want a radical change in the nature of power in iraq, they don't want to be one day jettisoned as those are the poll politicians that we, iraqi hezbollah, keep in the cupboard and bring them out whenever we want to be acceptable. they don't want that to be the end point for where iraq goes. the only way we're going to get those allies is if we outperform iran as a security partner. we can't ask for everything we want from the iraqis, unless we demonstrate that we are seriously committed about going forward. and not just until isis is gone. not just until mosul is liberated. but finally, until -- well, we're talking -- what we need is

a visionary. decade spanning, reengagement with the earthquake government for a -- with the iraqi government for a security corporation. this is not lebanon. no disrespect to lebanon. if we lose iraq to hezbollahization of the security structure, this is a country with the same oil as saudi arabia. 35, 40 million and going up. connected to every key regional state. this is like losing china in the 50's. this is not some small country even though in some -- i think some people within the administration have put it in a small box in their mind. that's not what it is. so we need to do more than the minimum and then leave. we need to demonstrate that we're there for the long term. but we need to say that openly. phillip is going to go into it in more detail. the iranians are seriously playing. they're doing what we used to do. they're there with the joint terminal attack controllers on the guard. pilots who know how the 25's

work that iran gave back to iraq. they're doing this really well. we need to do it really well. one of the things we need to start doing is to put more of our special forces closer to the front line, because if we don't demonstrate commitment to the iraqi army, they will continue to rely on iranian-backed pmu's as their primary offensive weapon system. and they can't retake that mosul that way. the mosuli's will not accept it. it will cause more problems. even the pmu's probably don't have the force to take back mosul. if we want to finish off isil in iraq, we need a major iraqi army built up. and we need ultimately to outperform the iranians as a security partner. now, i'll just finish off. just as i wanted to -- we've got a 5k going on, cameroon, and

alexandria, virginia, may 9 2015. if you're interested there's the url at the bottom, sitfiraq.org. it's a good cause. so support it, if you can. applause[applause] >> guess my slides are not going up. well... okay. well, sans slides, i'm going to have to try and work with this. what's really going on in syria right now? we had a jihad that it seemed like nobody even noticed was going on. everybody picked up on isis, al-qaeda, you know, a section of

al-qaeda fighting there. and this was described as the jihad going on inside of syria. but people neglected sorry about that guys. back to the main story. [laughter] people were neglecting this. this is another jihad, a major jihad that just seemed to float under everybody's noses. well maybe it looked more organized or maybe it was just organic and there were shiite coming to -- that was all it was to many people. that, okay well, a few shiite fighters went to syria and they just wanted to defend the shrine. but it's not. it hides something that's much much larger. we're now also seeing it in iraq. we're seeing an ideologic spread that iran is trying to push, to push their ideology, among iraqis, among other moderate shiite. i don't like to use this term,

moderate shiite. but shiite who do not believe in their radical concepts. this is kind of what was happening in syria in a nutshell. now we're seeing it on this kind of regional plane. it's shocking. i mean, it's shocking that not as many people were noticing it. so there are a few missing facts about this shiite jihad. and i think unfortunately in the press, because it's hard to cover the issue, a few things have popped up. i collected quotes from people that i know who are asking me about it, as i was doing research. and one of them said, but don't all foreign fighters come in sunni? i included the chart from the washington post which cites the fighters and it just lists them as foreign fighters. one of the largest foreign fighter con tin contingent had everything to do with the iranians routeing people from iraq lebanon, afghan refugees living in iran, sometimes from

afghanistan. they even routed african fighters. they claimed to route in somaliings. somalis. this was a really large-scale operation. we're talking about tens of thousands of people. another prime narrative in the media, it always goes, you know, isis uses facebook and twitter. i mean they have social media. that must mean they're more advanced. i have a little hint for you guys. the shiite militia groups run by the iranians actually have a far more advanced recruitment structure online. nobody has done anything to really take it off or investigate it. i mean, i could go here if we can facebook up. i could find you one in about five seconds. they're doing this quite openly and not hiding it. they're putting up extremely graphic images ones that many of us have written a hashtag about on twitter, about isis. much the same kind of material. there's another issue here. i talked about iran's control of

these organizations. and the routeing of these fighters. so one of the lines given to me by a friend -- she's probably not going to be my friend firm -- was that, you know, phil all these groups look pretty independent. the devil is really in the details. it's about a granular look. don't miss the forest for the trees but focus on the important stuff. a lot of these groups fighting in syria openly stated that they believe in absolute. they were fighting alongside lebanese hezbollah, a devoted proxy to the iranians. so there was a lot of intersection here. they were training in iran. they were then being shipped back after they were dying, through iran, not directly back to iraq. so they're not that independent. they are directly controlled. another line has been, you know, they're not as brutal and we are fighting the same enemy. well, this makes a lot of sense, kind of, if you get past the whole narrative structure. these groups actually cast a

narrative struck chaur that says that -- structure that says that all syrian rebels were muslims who wanted to accuse other muslims of apostasy and thus they could be killed. this is how they cast the u.s. so-called moderate allies. this is a larger narrative process that they underwent. now it's coming to full fold and we're watching iraq. not that i'm saying it's not isis doing a lot of the fighting but they have cast kind of this sunni enemy of theirs. it doesn't necessarily mean that they are your buddies. so the other thing is that they were just reactionary. well, these groups were around for quite some time, decades even. i'll give you the example of the organization in iraq. the iranians created them or helped create them from iraqi ref jewsrefugees who went over to iran to fight saddam hussein. they are even part of iraq's government. they even dominate the interior ministry. so these groups have been around

for a while. lebanese hezbollah, they've also been around since the early 80's. that doesn't mean they are not growing at rates we've never seen before. because there's a new crisis, we have new organizations. the other main thing is iran's reach in this is totally overstated. i can't say how much annoyance that actually causes me, because they're so open about this, about how they control these organizations. again, all you need to do is go on facebook or follow iranian media. here's the weird thing. dr. knights brought this up. even if they're not directly controlling a group, they'll claim to do it. they'll try to influence some with cash, weapons support then they become another micro-hezbollah. you can never ignore this top-down strategy. i'm not saying everything is a husseinist. not everybody fighting in a shiite militia believes in this.

but there is a top-down, trickle-down kind of structure here. how many of you in here a few decades ago, would have said, you know, lebanon is going to be a great place for this, because we all know religiously aware and radicalized the shiite population is there. i'm pretty sure not many. now look at s. these at it. these are main issues. we now have the narrative. why were people going to fight in syria? how did this lead to the current events in iraq? how did this lead to shiite militias fighting isis? first, a religious crisis needed to be manufactured. when i say that, there is is the supposed threat, which is this major mosque and shrine in southern damascus. a lot of interesting, weird granular connections to iran with this shrine. they actually rebuilt it. that's why it has a nice, pretty

golden dome. what they cast this was, to get fighters to go into syria. they needed people who would go for religious reason a justified reason. the justified reason was that they were doing their shrine defense. but it wasn't just that. just saying shrine defense well doesn't fit in with the narrative that was being pushed. why would they need to defend it? oh. well, they're defending against the ones i mentioned earlier. but who pushed them to this? well, america, the state of vail. it was the west. so that was wrapped in within this. there was a whole conspiracy wrapped in within this. if you're really looking at the real big long-term problems with this kind of outlook it now casts this vision that maybe the united states really did want to push for the shrine to be destroyed. maybe the u.s. was really pushing these moderate rebel groups because they wanted them to be al-qaeda. he said america has been trying to push al-qaeda into syria.

for most of us sitting here, that would sound kind of ludicrous, but that's been the narrative. so there's that. beyond all of this, by doing this move, they're actually executing a really grand regional strategy that doesn't just target shiite. and it actually targets a lot of minorities. i think we saw a lot of this -- sorry. do you mind if i grab a soda? thank you. sorry, guys. i'm running dry. i get excited. so -- all right. so in addition to this, we have to deal with the minority issue. if you remember back when hezbollah first had to deal with syria pulling out of lebanon, what did they do? they had outreach, the party. and by doing so, they obtained this wonderful catholic ally and they could put this veneer over them and say hey, we're lebanese national lists.

don't worry. we're for this lebanon thing. beyond that, when they're trying to push the whole thing, it doesn't make sense to a lot of us. this is an islamic ideology, in iran christians are not really treated all that well. they're also playing into these fears of drowning in the sunni sea. they've been doing this quite a bit with christians. if you noticed, the man who pushed this messaging up, you know christians, if you don't align with us, if you don't aline with the shiite, these sunnies are going to destroy you. so there's been that other move that's been pushing them in that direction, kind of pushing a minority alliance of sorts. they also pushed the good sunnies versus bad sunnies line as i like to call it, where say he would come and and he said this. he would simultaneously make a message. they were not against sunnies if. actually these are not sunnies. these aren't even muslims. he was declaring them as

enemies. so there was that other categorization that was going on simultaneously with all of this. but the biggest thing that's going on are these shiite themes and the pan shiite themes, they are trying to cast this narrative that iran is the protecter for the shiite in the region. yes, they are still casting the message that says we are pan-islamic, that he is the one for all muslims not just shiite. if you think about it, in a gio geostrategic sense it makes a lot of sense when you also have forces in those areas. then there's this. they have tried to minimize their link to this, while also trying to say that we have maintained the jihad. they don't want to show there

are geopolitical interests at stake. if they last syria, they would potentially lose their most valuable ally in the arab world. you have to have syria. you have to have that bridge. if they lost it, that would be no good. so, of course, it would be a great idea to drive up a jihad. no? but if they said that, oh, we're driving this, as persian iranians, we're having a jihad just to defend that sole interest, not many would buy into it. i attached a photo in here, and this is from one of my favorite -- it's not really -- it's a song that's been played by the direct iranian proxy. it actually says rough translation, we're not here fighting for bashar al-assad. we're fight to the shiite. if we're looking at iraq and looking at how a lot of these fighters have been sent back there, what are we seeing now? we're protecting islam.

to them islam is shiiteism. that's how they're doing it. so when we have to look at this, we have to focus on the actually militias. which militias were sending people to syria? there's a lot of confusion about what they were doing. i'm sure we remember the fire brand cleric. he killed americans when we were in iraq. but there's kind of a gray area when it comes to this. the gray area is kind of the weird thing, because there's a lot of odd info-ops going on online. but there's also evidence to say that maybe sodder did donate a few people to fight in syria. we don't know. there are a lot of people who what we would call sodderrist splinters. back during the iraq war, when we were there, a problem happened, where he was trying to maintain the army. and this didn't work out so

well. he pushed back against the iranians. not a great idea. so what did they do? they encouraged these splits and tried to build separate organizations. as i was doing this research, i tried to look up people who helped form this group. i call it the lafa network. this network the initial core of commanders, almost all of them were sodderrist splinter people. one of them, who was killed, they would call him -- he was killed, i want to say, december 2012. this is a person who served with mr. dulamy, a sunni who converted to shiiteism. he also raided the provincial headquarters for the american forces, killing five f to of our guys. he was in some way related to that. the old expression, it stinks on

ice, it kind of does in this respect, because yeah, they may have been promoting a lot of imagery and other things, but they had clear, direct links to the iranians. so going down more, we have the old standard bearers. when i say old standard bearers i mean the good old iranian proxies that we know so well, mainly lebanese hezbollah. they were some of the initial forces sent by the iranians into syria. they were serving as advisors. they were also serving as direct combat advisors. but also they were helping form up localized militias made up of shiite and alowese. the bodder organization is another one, but it's a little more complex. because what did bodder do? simultaneously, while building their own process and putting their own fighters into syria, were also building new separate special groups inside of iraq,

taking some of their members putting them in there, and then saying, now that this new grouch is formed, we're going to send these people to syria. one of the newer groups that i put was this one. one of their first martyrs was actually the son of a prime bodder corps commander who was killed. and his son was somehow killed fighting for the other side, which believes in the exact same idealical concept. i guess, going past that, we also have hezbollah and hawk. i'm sure, again, a lot of people remember these groups. they efp'd american soldiers, killed a lot of coalition forces. some of these guys were the first into iraq. what they would do is go to iran and then take a syrian air flight into damascus unload.

they'd be wearing their sieve sivvis. they'd pick up a rifle, go and fight. they were not even hiding this earlier, when they were coming into the country. they were actually openly advertising it on easily accessible facebook pages, which is kind of shocking. are they trying to promote that, hey, we can go into syria whenever we want? who is going to stop us? the biggest issue here has been the syrian-based groups. these are local actors or at least they cast themselves as local actors. initially, their intelligence groupings tried to help form up a lot of localized shiite militias. the main one that came out of this was lewah. from that, it just kind of expanded out. think of it like an octopus. could we write some of these groups off as maybe subdivisions

after the larger lafa network, a battalion underneath a larger army group? i would say yes. i think they're all networked together. but they have now taken on their own separate names, their own separate identities, their own separate recruitment activities, both in iraq and syria. they don't really hide this. they have their own commanders, a lot of them coming out of that initial network. this is kind of the nexus that has formed. so iran's proxy -- i actually put this guy over here holding hands. this is a guy who helped found hawk. hawk as i went through before, one of these first special groups that we saw in iraq, but what's he doing now? what is he doing now? he's now leading another group like this. you can see kind of through these trails, it looks crazy.

a million different little links here, there and everywhere. why would they do this? a lot of people have asked me, how does this make any sense for a grand regional strategy? and i'll get to this. now check this out. but wait! there's more. [laughter] when we're looking at this -- and i have tried to track down all the different connections. and you wouldn't believe this. i put them all up. a radical cleric, where some of his fighters have gone. we have this one over here. i'm sorry if i'm making the c-span guys angry. i keep leaning back. all these different groups. i even put in black and white over here, that's called lewah. afghan fighters. they put this in this big corps. then what did they do? the minute they got to syria they were fighting under another guy. they put the patches on. they'd serve under their

commander. sometimes they had their own subregiments. but all all of this, this confusing judgejumble -- you had all of this. when you get -- another odd thing that happened, after they had already splintered, 4,000 different ways what did we end up having? they did it again. it's just crazy. they did it again. so one, in august, the actual group that's run by ajib, formed a group that's called amafi. it's a fourth of the hawks. so this is their iraq-based contingent that's fighting there. but a bunch of other groups have also taken on the name, tons of them actually, and a lot of them even have connections back to the original. is this a deliberate move? possible. if it's not, i really don't know.

they really need to get their stuff together. but there are a bunch of these different groups that have don done this. the groups was -- i think they were formed a little bit earlier than that. they even started their own iraqi contingent. all of this is going on, the spread and the movement and the networking. it continues. and if we're getting down to brass tacks on this one, we look at it -- i think a lot of this is just kind of a little game that a lot of people like to play. because a lot of these people will share members. they'll fight in the same fronts. they'll say they lost the same member. it's all a big game so i can sit here, suck down my diet mountain dodew, as i'm looking for yet another militia group. in addition to this, this is my white whale of militia commanders. i had followed this guy since he had his first facebook page. i kid you not.

he actually ran it himself. and he also had this great haircut. he'd wear this awesome turban. everything about him was his own personality. but when you're looking at it, what does his presence really represent? this is a major thing. it was announced in this new group through their organization that he was a commander. that is nowhere near damascus that they are supposed to be defending. then they promoted him as a sadrist, that is a picture of him after he was killed with the front end you will see him in a shirt in the back. he came back in the spring of 2014 but then he was named as a commander. the greatest thing about this if he had two music videos dedicated and appeared in one. not making this up but afterwards another shift seem to

have been. where did it go? commented it does appear, into thin air? i didn't see anything on the tv media which i read on most of the time. but then they showed him what has the -- hezbollah by showing this it was a new with a new organization that was formed in iraq but he was the secretary general as doctor knight mentioned before it's kind of the real push behind that. after the pictures he was named as one of their guys. he had a funeral and everything and all of a sudden his name and face spread all over the web. a huge thing i realized when i

was doing the research is the recruitment factor online, something i truly belief nobody is paying that much attention to. they have been posting phone numbers and all sorts of things and this is one of the initial ones where they would put up a popular committee member in the imagery that we are looking at. more needs to be done because guess what i called in to these numbers in the audience they called in with me to these numbers and they had conversations with these guys so it's really not that hard. what did they accomplish? it fits into that narrative that we are pushing isis. they secured damascus hands down. this isn't a republican guard or a magical local seer ian militia

this is the allied organizations and i would even describe these as links. they are all part of a unified network and that is how they are developing. while they've done this they've taken a ton of geography and they've been able to construct the new go on front if we think about the move i was talking about before they are infiltration in the iraqi government and also in syria. it's not like he can push back against them because they are the main fighting force and then on top of that, building with narrative of the strength and protection this is huge. when you feel you've are under an existential x. essential threat if someone came to me and said i'm going to give you money, the americans are not

doing enough for you and they never will. i'm pretty sure that i would take it if i thought that they were going to destroy me. they are playing off of that so effectively. bigger thing there are other breeds all consequences to that group. i heard this question will be magically moderate after isis is defeated? it's like saying you did they drop their weapons after the israelis held out of southern lebanon they most certainly did not. the same thing happened when we pulled out of 2011 to join the government but they never did. but here's the biggest thing. does anybody know what poster this was? they came out of the february 14

youth movement and put this up for him. why would they put that if you are pushing for syria or iraq for speaking out against the government of this has become kind of this new cause. they execute him and said this. if they execute him we will retaliate against them and strike them so now they have a new cause to fight and it will keep going like that. it doesn't adjust to syria. it is going to encompass a lot war. ignoring it won't make it go away.

aligning with it certainly won't make it go away. because i would say that they have manipulated the process right down to a t. they've done a very good job of it. and i don't see it really going away anytime soon, which is sad. [applause] >> p.j. dermer: trying to digest all of that, my name is pj dermer. retired military officer, started as infantry. and then in the 80s went conventional. i'm going to bring it up a little bit and hopefully get through this without a lot of

tears because the movements are emotional to myself and those that served on the ground. trying to figure out what to do with the information that was put out in the briefings that we would go to and try to figure out how to put it together in a practical sense and give a couple of policy wreck and additions. i think i would start off by saying david asked me to give a small synopsis about the papers. i am in a pretty good conference with mike. it is how complicated even more so but how complicated things are now. we tend to work in the borders and the nation-state and fundamentals of the regional actors and the fundamentals of the theory of that reactor theory. meaning i punch you, you punch me back. what are you doing why are you

not punching me back? sometimes we lost. i think with both of the author officers pointed out in the line of the block charts is quite complicated. how did you maneuver and we will put out to the crowd today that it isn't new. we have seen these demarcations. and lenny before i was in syria in 1982 -- asked me what i was going to do. but never mind. you get to see these split through. there's a lot of personality involved, a lot of personal interest. at the end of the day, it was who knows why actors do what

they do. in 2008 when i was in the negotiations so set up by general petraeus. mike was with me in the audience back there. he wrote a great article on michael saying how the iranians are the best thing that isis can have. those with the same intellectual brilliance of failure and i mean that, they would come in and lay out these charts about how this guy talked to this guy and he calls. and they would sneak a way and the person that was responsible for going face to face with the folks on the side, a lot of them in prison and a lot of them not we would look at the chart and go wow. a lot of names and numbers. so who can i talk to? number two, when i'm with them what do i say? glad to see you in bahrain

today. there is an essence that sooner or later you have to bring to a practical level. it is how much more complicated the ground is then i think in fairness and i would agree i think that we are fundamentally understanding or if we understand it lets say we do our actions are not on the fact that we do. we are currently embarked to train and equip in order to defeat isis campaign. that's where the focus of washington is and where americans have been redeployed to iraq to imagine to build up forces to defeat isis. great. but the officers pointed out and i would agree it is first off how do you get this bad?

very, very heavy. killed most of our mates in the fighting. they will penetrate anything. they are giving this information. and their information and marching and even the clerics are dressed up. that didn't happen between the

time isis took mosul and the time the news guys got there. meaning it had been going on for a very long time to include while we were there. not just since we were deployed. that's the basis and navigate to the basis part and the schisms that are now developing. it's gone from an isis takeover to a perhaps religious conundrum throughout the middle east. again, unfortunate -- not new industry but in our time new enough. and how do you act? that's the tough question. it's nice to see the charts but somewhere in this world of issue where do you plug into the first possible thing to do? right now we're going to go get isis in mosul. okay, but the rest of the general crowd out there as michael pointed out, it's a tactical thing for them. isis is not a strategic issue. i think we need to rise to the

of a look at the strategic ultimate was out there. i'm a believer in approaching it from fault line and on the medals. there are certain fundamental issues in the middle east in any sphere, middle east as well, that exist. one of them i think it's still true of how do we -- one is very much the arab iranian divide shia-sunni divide, the persian persian arab history gulf. that is not a small fundamental. might prove in this is when we got to iraq, and my first trip was building a city council and then i went all over iraq with just iraqis for nine to 10 months building the new m.o.d. and the army. i was the main recruiter. all these bad characters, all the ones that are left alive don't know where they are, most of them are dead or gone. okay. but to a t, you have the meeting room -- have the meeting revenge of the sidebars where they put aside one on one, to achieve the common thread was no malign party influence, political

party. no party hacks. we want technical guys scientific guys, meaning proper training for the task ahead. military but same thing. so to a t. we did find a lot of skin. the clerics weren't on top of it like they are now. moreover, it crossed boundaries. it crossed boundaries. in 2008, after fighting in basra and baghdad, i was a senior military adviser in baghdad. an iraqi division committee came to us and said, this is -- what a great day. yes. sadr retired from the battlefield mainly because maliki took the gloves off a

us. and the iraqis came forward with us, and we did a lot of fighting. special groups did not play in that fight. special groups were being guided from a different place. i think that is the key to understand, between the nationalist point -- get to the second. what he said in his speech gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, great americans, great iraqi patriot. today's the first day in the battle against iran.

okay? okay, we are very much so, to include would walk out of this building. or i can go there. i'm not at that level, with all due respect. we are going to have to bow out of this part of the negotiations because i don't speak for my god. this could get rather

complicated. now, if you're willing to come down a level or whatever level you want to call it, come up a little, i'm not going to speak to you, let us begin. but at the point of dealing at that level i don't know where you go. we had a chaplain in one of the units in baghdad. great guy, 6'6" -- crucial to the reconciliation council. had a whiteboard, with committees canopus. i offered that he should take lead of this. you and your guys should be leading, not us on earth. this is not our bailiwick. so number one, the complications are fast. number two, understand the fundamentals. three at i agree with michael, very much so, did in the big game. game of isis is bad news. those guys, gals, whatever they are made above, are really projecting themselves in a way that we all agree is pretty macabre. not new unfortunately. that's not again.

we are not in that game. the united states military is unleashed and allowed to play in the sandbox can do a lot of damage. but you got to also understand that is not just information of guys in black with weapons. isis is not i would argue not a formidable, its formal but it's not, it's a structured thing that we could push it out of mosul. spot in kurdistan to go somewhere. and then you will be there for our beckoning with our air power. understand what it is. philip has done a very good job of helping explained that about pushing isis out of mosul, it's not a bumper sticker. it's not a bumper sticker. questions, we have to be integrated. game it integrated, game outlined. of course, the iranian influence. so people said i don't know what that means. what do you mean? they get first cut. that's what it means. they are the first ones in the morning, lessons out of me. they get six hours a day. we get 45 minutes with the body in between whatever. no. we will take six hours. and you know what, you can put your office inside the embassy if they so decide. but we're not in that game.

and i've seen this time and time and time again. i've done it plummets with a teen before christmas, the place in the middle east where we show up. what do you want to do? and we are meeting and just when are you going to play? are you guys going to play? why the keep getting on a plane and leave? the brits are here, the french are here, where are you guys? okay, hold that thought. we would be back in a few months in the next meeting. you have to be in the game. i also would argue that this is not, this is not a conflict of beef, far away from. if you don't want to play in this game, we have to adjust the balance between the force protection concepts we have fallen under and the ability to meet face-to-face. you have to ask the question ask the question where did the shia militia get all this armament under our noses?

but what happened since 2011, or pick a date. i don't care. common terms of the diplomatic moves? the guys are living out there day in and day out. where was the influence? can we get it back? six hours a day go by -- that uphill fight to get the influence that we should have to be back but it's interesting. there's a conundrum, a contradiction. you won't need anybody armed or not armed, shia-sunni, that doesn't look at you as an american represented either civilian or uniformed. be the power. you are the power. be the power. stop playing a round. if you are not the power, that epidemic, you have a real big problem about what's going on out here. for reasons we don't understand but it's your business. whenever you're ready to quit playing

possum, come on out. but anytime i got to talk to them because they are here. in their hierarchy of needs, yes, we are alive. so understand the fundamentals. be in the game. can understand the complexities

and i've never been out anyplace at a level that never always wanted to go higher. the first question is who are you and who do you represent? there is no weight when we were negotiating as negotiators. for general petraeus and ambassador crocker, the two, three, or four of us that were out. that was the first thing we establish. are you speaking for your grand self, colonel, or have you been former center in a position? because that's what it where it

at least we leave the school hospital, whatever. at least we intend to. what they're going to leave -- i don't know.

but you will do what they tell you, no matter what they tell you, for the rest of your life. so this is not easy but these precepts have to be joined into. i think you sum up, i would argue, that mike has done a great job. phill has done something that very few can pull together. and all with open-source information. which is actually important to understand -- especially today in the communicative world. i would be in baghdad, inside the command center of baghdad, watching or advising the senior. one of the people of mosul, the ground forces commander. he was a great guy. he was a nice man, a decent man. he really was the -- he just wasn't a classic wartime commander. he hated the fact that divided iraqis -- which, oh, by the way, was another theme throughout the armed forces. nobody in uniform in iraq unless they had -- wanted by anyone in the population of iraq.

this is what happened in the turnaround in fallujah in 2003. and the reticence of the iraqi forces to fight in basra in 2008. and the backend. bailey went, forces only move forward when we came on the battlefield. and went first. and we lost a lot of guys. that's when they came forth. none of them wanted to tackle this. this is another dilemma i would add. once if isis is defeated, we're coming back for a whole 'nother round. a fight because the iraqi forces come under what -- if they are nationalist-themed, won't want to give it again. thank you. [applause] >> david schenker: thank you very much. by the way, these studies can be found downloaded in pdf on washingtoninstitute.org.

i know we're going to go about 10 minutes worth of questions. but let me just ask first, mike, in terms of specifics, how many soldiers right now, isf, currently being trained up? what's the order about the iraq is going to go to bring against isis? when are they going to bring it? when will it be at its greatest force. that's for you. phillip, hezbollah, perhaps the largest of all this operating in syria. how does it coordinate with the others? and what are your estimates of the losses to date? make a fairly short answer, and then we will get to the group. >> i think the real numbers of

iraqi security force and assured, to be honest -- peshmerga, all those figures are in the report. snapshot view in early 2015 was around 48,000 active combat for iraqi army. a significantly higher number for m.o.i. but again nowhere near what they were back in 2009 or even before isis in 2014, the big takeover. the main thing is this. how many active forces to the have better capable of moving and undertaking offensive operations? that's the key measure we're looking for. with the iraqi army, it's a remarkably small number. it's probably a limits of one armored division and special forces. it's well under 10,000 guys, and that means currently being used, they're probably able to throw more offensive mobile troops than the iraqi army can right now.

and puzzled even the iraqi army and the minister of interior combined. the peshmerga i would probably have as much active mobile capability as the entire iraqi army history of interior, and maybe even the other put together in terms of people that can actually move to a battlefield. >> in terms of hezbollah serving as advisor and also working with the syrian army initially they came in as that come in that advisory kind of role that now has taken on far more of a command style role. actually if you juxtapose it to iraq in certain areas and taking leadership roles with some iraqi, this didn't please a lot of guys in the iraqi army, it also didn't play some people in the syrian army. they were a few little firefights that actually occurred between some of the iraqi shia militiamen were with hezbollah and also with some of the local militias.

but they're essentially running the show now. are running the show in terms of command structure and everything else. i'm not saying that there's no syrian army left, but these guys to have a strategic -- in terms of numbers that lost. official hezbollah said in a high couple hundred. i would say it's much higher than that, probably in the 1000 range, probably more because they didn't a number of the cashless or they have hidden them as casually as from syria. so it's very, very hard to get it to gauge of that. >> i'm going to call on folks in the crowd and maybe identify yourself, wait until the microphone comes. up front, please. >> hi, barbara slavin from the atlantic council. as claude rains would say, i'm shocked, gamble is going on. when the u.s. overthrew saddam something like 50,000 members of the brigade came in untold and

benefited as the u.s. defense tobacco, they came in right behind. hello, iran is next door and have fought a war with iraq and had groomed all these people and now it is reaping the benefits of the u.s. decision to get rid of saddam hussein. we will leave that aside for now but the question is this. i am hearing from some iranians that iraqi shia don't really want to fight to take back the sunni areas. what they want to do is control baghdad south. similarly in the city where we have a partition of the country in effect. how would all of you react to the notion that what we're watching is sipping a partition of these two countries and that the u.s. would like to keep them unify, particularly in the case of iraq but the people who live there actually don't really care and iran doesn't really care as long as it has its order to lebanon, it's influence,

particularly in iraq in areas that were most where the oil is? thanks. >> the first thing i would tell you is partition sounds great until you address the map and then you go put all the layers on it of identity, geography etc. it ain't that easy. if you look at where the iraqi security forces have punched back to now, you can see them spreading up the scenes of shia turkmen community. for instance, a stretch all the way up into kirkuk. so no partition of the country and there is no limit to the pmu -- who have to go very far north to liberate all shia areas. i don't think it's neat and tidy for sure if you're trying to maintain a line of supply up to syria that is running right

through anbar, alien areas. >> i will pick up on the point. i think there is no reason to, if you have basra, which is the major income for the country essentially no one. we like to see say those of us who've been after doing business. that bowser doesn't need baghdad or baghdad needs basra. he had had the oil in the have baghdad, the capital. yeah. why push your luck? why go into food fights up there in indian land for what? you are not losing anything. and i do also believe that once victory has happened there's a very good scheme of evidence that fights within themselves will occur. and i think phillip, what he should today, supports that, studied other civil wars in the

middle east which support that as well. we have to challenge the assumption -- end of the shia, when our kids at certain points in the program, then they will settle and the sunni areas are left. the sparse thing they could do is just sits because the dynamics of history of original show they will turn on themselves sooner or later one way or another. all those lines that phillip showed will have to go somewhere. >> ambassador? >> thank you very much. i have an observation and question. and observation, as a look at this strategic appointed you i think all that isis was loss which i think is a tragedy but think we need to -- [inaudible] and the venom of isis, engagement, viciousness, creating on its own a culture of violence which make mushroom into other as well.

and in relation to all the shia entities, you can have a simmer entity which is mushrooming out as well. so forcefully that's the dangers. i think the key question here is in the midst of that who are your partners and to kenya work with? that i think is what the government of iraq has dictated as democratic as others as well. are the only sort of within this mode all that the safer option to work with. come over to do that there has to be a clear commitment from the united states. i would say one key issue is not to repeat the last 10 years mistake and learn from it. that i think what any reengage with susan has to take that into account. in having better culture awareness and doing something new. that's on the micro level. at the macro level, the more holistic point of view, i think you are right when you say that the capitals have to have a dialogue. that dialogue can't be just shia-sunni problem because it's

not. much more than that. it can't be about dividing iraq are not divided because that creates its own mushroom. with the u.s. has a role, let's be clear about that. but i think it has to be a series dialogue. the nuclear issue is one element of that dialogue by the way. a series dialogue between the regions. you have to say significantly everyone wants that dialogue and create some environment for a series chat to take place but otherwise i think we are doomed. >> i will take just one part of that. i agree. i agree on a number of things, but with all due respect in terms of the growth of isis, this is a two-way street. particularly on par. they would go out and kill tribal leaders, kill awakening leaders, but who was also killing awakenings leaders. they're putting power drills through people's heads and dumping their bodies to his aides to a radicalization process.

i will say this on a personal level because i focus on the shia entities. i don't think it's gotten all that much attention. there's a few "new york times" articles on it. and that's about it. but this is far more circular than just the absolute and utter disgusting brutality that is isis. it's a far larger picture, and i think if we addressed it holistic with as you said we would probably have much better results. >> do you want to say something about the u.s. commitment the ambassador was talking about? >> yeah, i thought he said it well enough. he said two things. don't repeat the same mistakes again years ago. i would agree because i was part of those mistakes. i second-guessed many me thinks i did personally and we did a lot of, to serve in iraq say we could have done more it and i like to argue, i'm glad we didn't in some ways, you know. just being honest. but not only the u.s. commitment the u.s. initiative.

either we are leading this thing or not. you can't have it both ways as who we are. that's what we hear every time we travel. there's an incredible befuddlement in the region at large has to not only will we not take charge but the minute we leave the room and we hear somebody doing something to call him up and say don't do that. why are you doing that? wait a minute, that didn't come out in the office call. i know but we don't want you to do that. an incredible conundrum. i don't know how parties out there get it. >> we have a number of additional questions you but don't want to go over today, so if you have those, these come up. until then thank you very much for coming. i think this was a great panel and i think everyone will benefit from looking at these publications. so thank you once again for coming. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> we have more live coverage coming up. remarks by the united nations high-security of human rights. >> this weekend we partnered with time warner. the papers are the flagship collection. he made it his life to help local and beyond

mexican-americans to get the benefits they had coming to them -- which were sometimes very difficult to obtain. this was an incident that occurred very early in the history of the gi forum. his widow arranged to have his funeral conducted in her hometown of three rivers, texas. near corpus christi, texas. for fear of offending the white citizens of the area. he conducted a letter writing campaign -- a response came from

lyndon johnson, who had recently been elected senator. he believed it was wrong for a fallen soldier to be discriminated against after death. private long gloria was laid to rest in arlington national cemetery.

this is one hour and 10 minutes. ♪ >> president obama: thank you,

everybody. [applause] hello, hoosiers. everybody, have a seat. let me begin by saying thank you to greg ballard for the introduction. for all the great work you are doing for the people of indianapolis. and for your service as a marine. we are very proud of the partnership that we have had with the city. i also want to recognize the ivy tech chancellor. president tom. where are they? [applause] some outstanding members of congress, our senator, where is he? congressman andre carson. [applause] and somebody who has been a great friend for the people of the state and nation. a great friend to me personally.

one of the people who has ensure that america is safe for so many years, former senator and mayor of indianapolis. dick luger. [applause] on the way over here, we were reminiscing about the first foreign trip i ever took, it was with dick luger. we went to russia. he had recently written a book on it. he seems like a kind of relaxed guy, but if you go on a trip with him, he will wear you out. at one point, we were actually held by a russian colonel at the airport for about three hours.

normally, it might have made people nervous. dick, he has been around the block a few times, so he just took a nap. it was fine. it is great to be back in indiana. it is great to be back close to my home state. i respect the pacers. [laughter] yes, i am a bull fan. i make no apologies. we have some fierce rivalry. i'm looking forward to mr. george and others getting back on track so we can have some more playoff runs. that's not all that i know about the state. one of my first trips as president was to indiana. i stopped by some of your manufacturing plants. i played three on three in a school up in kokomo. my team won, by the way.

when it comes to elections, i am batting .500. i am 1-2. that is not bad. [applause] last time, i will knowledge, i got kind of smoked here in indiana. that is ok. that is exactly why i wanted to come back. i do not plan to take too long in the front. i want to make sure we have some time for questions. when i gave my state of the union address a couple weeks ago. i repeated a vision that i originally laid out over a decade ago. that was the vision that said there is no liberal america or conservative america. there is the united states of america. i know that sometimes it seems our politics are more divided -- than ever, that in parts of indiana, the only lou you will see is on coke signs.

and in chicago, the only red you will see is on both signs. but, we express so much more in common than not. that does not always get focused on in our politics. i have seen so much of the good, generous optimism in the country over the past six years to give into the cynicism that sometime is peddled as wisdom around the country. we have come a long way these past six years since we suffered the worst financial crisis since the great depression. this morning, we found out that american businesses added another 260,000 jobs. [applause] in 2014, our economy created more than 3.1 million jobs. that is the best year of job growth since the 1990's. [applause]

all told, over the past 59 months, the private sector has added about 11.8 million, almost 12 million jobs. that is the longest streak of private-sector job growth in our history. meanwhile, our deficits are shrinking. they have gone down by about two thirds. our dropout rates are down. our graduation rates are. up. we are more free of foreign oil than we had been in 30 years. we have doubled the amount of clean energy that we are producing. a lot of families are saving a lot of money at the gas pump. that is putting some miles on some folks cars. and -- [laughter] you're welcome. [applause] although i was telling someone

to other day, at some point they will go back out. don't start -- you know, going out there and ignoring the mileage when you're buying a new car. you have to keep looking for those savings. in the single most hopeful sign for families, wages are starting to go up again. [applause] america is poised for another good year. indianapolis is poised for another good year. as long as washington works to keep this progress going. i was struck as i was listening to the mayor's introduction. here in indiana, we've been able to do some good things because we have not been so worried about democrat-republican. we focus more and getting the job done. that attitude -- is that attitude were open to washington, trying to adapt that

same attitude when it comes to the problems that we face going forward. dick was a great example of that. we have risen from recession for you to write our own future, freer that any nation on earth. we have to make good decisions as to what that future looks like. will we be a nation where a few of us do spectacularly well and everybody out is struggling to get by? or, will we have a country in which everybody has opportunity? everybody has a chance to succeed. last year, i got a letter from

jillian millhand, who lives up -- where is julian? jillian has four kids. that means she is busy. for 14 years, she was a stay-at-home mom. she was going through a divorce, had to find a way to support her family, did not have a college degree. most of the jobs that she found paid minimum wage. as she put it, i was a mother of four kids, and i had everything against me. she came here, invested in herself to learn skills. she paid her way with a grant from her country, and a grant from the state of indiana. she made the dean's list, earned us on the radiography program. and that -- today, she is a few months from graduating. she is ready to get started on a new career. [applause] in the letter she wrote, she

said, it is not just the possibility of financial security and career advancement, it is also something i can show my children. it is about pride. it is about being able to point to a brighter future for the next generation. that is who i get up for every single day. sometimes you will ask me, mr. president, your hair is so gray. folks are always talking about you. not always in the most flattering way. how do you do it? the reason is folks like jillian. who are out there, all across indiana, all across the country, working so hard and doing the right thing.

not asking for a handout. they just want to make sure that if they're putting in effort that they can get ahead. we cannot do it for them. we can help. we can create structures of opportunity, like we have here at ivy tech. that is something we can do for everybody. that is what keeps you going. i want to make sure that this is a country where hard work is rewarded. and that you get a chance to make a decent living. that is what i've been calling middle class economics -- what it's all about. the idea that in this country, everyone does their best when everyone is doing their fair share, and everyone has a fair shot, and is playing by fair rules. we live in a time of constant change. technology has made some jobs obsolete. some jobs have been shipped overseas. it is tougher to afford necessities like child care or

health care. that has been true since long before the financial crisis hit in 2007-2008. that is why at a time when the economy is finally picking of steam and growing, we have to work twice as hard, especially in washington, to help more americans like julian. this week, i sent congress a budget that is build on this idea middle class economics for the 21st century. it means helping middle-class families affords child care and health care, afford college without taking on a lot of debt, paid leave at work, helping first-time homebuyers, helping people face retirement. my budget faces each of these issues, and could put money back in the pockets of middle-class families. [applause]

middle class economics also means helping more people like julian upgrade her skills. this competitive economy is not going to get easier. folks are not going to be in the same job for 30 years. these young people here today, they will have a bunch of different jobs. there will be the need for you to continually upgrade your skills. it is about lifelong learning. not just a one-time deal. that is why my budget makes two years of community college free for every student. [applause] here in america, it should not matter how much money your folks

make. if you are willing to work hard, you should be a will get the opportunity. you should not necessarily have hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt when you leave. especially if you will go into professionally teaching. we are not just working to make community college free. we want to make our community colleges even better, and more attuned to what is going on in the marketplace. right here, at this school, one of the best in this country, not just in indiana -- [applause] you are finding ways to raise graduation rates, and partner with businesses, provide apprentices ships, and in fields that pay well like construction and technology. middle class economics also means that we are investing in what makes our economy grow. better roads, faster internet, cutting edge research, that our businesses are creating high-paying jobs.

the good news is that we can afford to pay for all this. we do not have to add to our deficit if we have some smart spending cuts, and if we fix the tax code that is filled with loopholes and kickbacks for folks who do not need them. [applause] in my budget, i identify some of these. there is a trust fund loophole that allows the wealthiest 1% of americans, who have benefited more over the last 20 years than anybody when the economy has been growing. this allows them to avoid paying taxes on their unearned income. that is, not something that jillian, when she gets her job is going to be able to do. people here cannot avoid paying taxes.

i do not know why the folks who are most able to pay them should be able to avoid them. we need to fix that. then, we can use the savings to cut taxes for middle-class families who really need it. [applause] we know that there are companies that have stashed about $2 trillion overseas. they have not paid u.s. taxes. let's close those loopholes. let's make it more attractive for people to relocate the united of america. they will create jobs right here in indianapolis, right here in indiana. as opposed to giving people tax breaks for sending money overseas. we can do that. [applause] these are ideas that are pretty common sense. now, in washington, folks solve the budget. they said, these are obama's plans.

some of them are good ideas, but they will not go any place. that's because the republicans controlled congress, and they will not do it. i am not pushing these ideas for my sake. i'm pushing them because i think this is where america needs to go, and we should have a healthy debate about how to do the things that aren't necessary to help america grow. republicans and democrats will not agree on everything. that is fine. we should agree on the stuff that we are talking about now. we should agree that hard-working families should be able to get childcare that is not more expensive than sending a kid to college. [applause] we should agree that somebody like julian, who wants to better herself, should be able to go to college without being loaded up with even more debt. we should be able to agree that a great city like indianapolis

needs to keep its infrastructure in good shape and order to attract new businesses. so that they feel confident that they can get their products and services out to markets, and that we have the best trained attract new businesses. workforce in the world. that is what will make companies want to locate here. those are things that we can agree on. we should agree that the tax code should be fair. and that nobody should be treated better just because they have better accounts are lawyers. if republicans disagree with the way that i'm trying to solve these problems, they should put for their own plans. i happy to look at it. what we can do is ignore the problems created and pretend that they do not matter. pretend that families are not out there struggling to do their best. i believe in it crazy thing that

dick once said, that the other party may have good ideas. that is shocking. [applause] i know mayor ballard believes the same thing. i certainly do. let's roll up our sleeves and work together and try to get some stuff done. that is what all of you elected us to do. not just turn everything into a washington food fight. not to refight old partisan battles. let's have a debate that is worthy of this country and build on economy that is picking up steam, and make sure that it is serving everybody. that prosperity is broad-based. that not only everybody sharing in america's success, but everyone is contributing to america's success. that is what we are trying to do. that is what is on my mind now. i want to hear what is on your mind. we will start taking some questions.

the way this will work is it will be simple. you raise your hands, i call on you. if you could stand up and introduce yourself, try to keep your question relatively short. i will try keeep my answer relatively short. in fact, the only rule that i will impose is i will go girl-boy-girl-boy. make sure it is even and fair. relatively short. let's get started. who wants to go first? this young lady right here. >> hi, i am erica walsh of the college democrats of indiana. i would like to hear how you think offering two years of freak me college will impact for your universities? >> i think a lot of full flow still use the traditional pathway of going to a four-year university.

if that is your best option, god bless you. that is great. there will always be a market for indiana university or notre dame. it is not like suddenly people will stop when to go there. what the two years of free me college potentially does is for somebody who is cash-strapped, their best option may be, let me go get two years in a community college, i may at that point have gotten the training that i need to go on the workforce, and get a good paying job. or, if i decide i want to continue with my education, i can now transfer to a four year institution with those credits which means that the amount of tuition i am paying at the four-year university will be reduced.

either way, you are saving money. this is part of what we need to do. to be more creative about how young people get the skills that they need without spending as much money, or taking on as much debt. this is not the only kind of thing we're looking at. young people get the skills that for example, i think ivy tech is looking at this sort of partnership with high schools. a number of to me college is now our linking up with -- are now linking up with high schools so you can start taking college credits and high schools, so that anytime you get the community college, you are you have some credits. this reduces the amount of time you need to spend and the community college, that will save you money to. the point is, we have is very rigid system. we have this image in our head -- you go to high school, then is right away you go to a four-year university.

instead, what we should be thinking about is how we create, from the time you are in ninth grade, until you have a job, how do we make sure you are able to get the best skills possible at the cheapest cost. if there are faster pathways to doing that, let's use those faster pathways. if there are cheaper pathways, let's find ways to reduce costs. let's use technology in some cases. online learning is getting better and better. are there ways in which -- particularly for someone who is saying, mom, and has an ear regular schedule, and cannot be on campus all day -- are there ways that she can get some credits walls still looking after a family? or working part-time? we just have to be much more creative about these issues. the one thing, in addition to being creative, we have to

remember that state legislators have a responsibility to make sure that state institutions are still getting the support that they need. part of what is happening -- [applause] part of the reason that the cost part of what is happening -- of higher education has gone up so rapidly it is that state and support for those institution has gone down. or it has not kept up with inflation. so what happens is when administrators have to make up for it, they raise tuition. state legislators have the responsibly to be more efficient. students and parents, we have the responsibility to be smart. i joke with melia and sasha in because melia is around the age of looking at college. i say, everyone is looking for

fancy jensen gourmet food. expensive dorms. let me tell you, when i was in college -- i started at occidental college, there was a gym but the weight room was -- there was like a medicine ball -- [laughter] it was not fancy. it was not state-of-the-art. the cafeteria -- i do not remember some of the stuff that they serve, but it was not that appetizing. there was something on the menu that we called roast beef, we cannot really tell what kind of meat it was. it was some sort of meat product. so, students and parents have to be better consumers. universities have severe out how to be more efficient. and also give information to

young people ahead of time. part of what happens these days is in recruiting students, they say, don't worry about it, you will be able to afford it. it's true that in part we have extended hell grants, and eliminated the bank middleman. a lot of people are able to finance college who could not both before. but, when you get out, you may have a $60,000 or $80,000 bill. that is a problem. we at the provide more information. but ultimately, state legislators have to step up. the federal government will do its part. we have expanded the support we will give students. but, these institutions have an obligation. and it is a good investment. it is true, not just in this country, but across the world.

[applause] it is a gentleman's turn. this young man right here. white shirt. how loud are you? can you dish out? no. >> hi, i am mario. i am a student here at ivy tech. my question is if community college becomes free, will the value of an associate's degree drop? >> absolutely not. i have been asked this question before, and i do not know where it is coming from. i will give you an example. there is a college in new york

called city college of new york. and back in the, you know, 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, the city called city college of new york. college of new york produced as many nobel laureates as a lot of ivy league schools. it was free. but it was considered one of the best universities in the country, one of the best college systems in the country. nobody thought, because you went to the city colleges, and it did not cost you any money, that somehow the education was devalued. so the issue is not whether you are -- how much money you are paying. the issue is what that education is providing your. -- you. the reputation of the school is going to be determined by, when the graduates, out, do they have

the skills they need to do the job? and if they do, employers are going to know it, because employers are hungry for well-qualified students. i cannot tell you how many businesses i talked to where they say, our biggest problem is, we cannot find enough workers who are trained in the fields that we are searching for. so don't let anybody think that paying more means of better education. -- a better education. one thing we do have to think about, and this is where community colleges can be an outstanding bridge, is making sure that we are reaching out to businesses and finding out, what do they need for the positions they are hiring? and having those businesses help

committee colleges design training programs and departments to serve those needs. and we are seeing a lot more work done by community colleges on that front. ivy tech school does a great job in a pretty ships with a partnership with the labor council. that is another example of smart education. turns out the average apprentice gets a $50,000 starting salary once they get out of an apprenticeship, on average across the country. so we are doing a lot to encourage schools to expand gets a $50,000 starting salary apprenticeships and partnerships. do not think paying more is better. paying less is better. [laughter] [applause] i am -- i am always looking for a deal. all right. [laughter] yes, right there.

mike is coming right there. hold on, amy. >> sure, thank you. my name is amy saxton. i paid for my daughter's college. i am now saving for my children with a 529 plan. do you see any changes that might impact me as i go into retirement? president obama: we initially looked at changing the 529 plan. and the reason is that i have 529's for both malia and sasha. for those who are not familiar five to nine is basically a savings account you can put in tax-free up to a certain amount

but i think enough people -- and we were going to hold harmless folks like you and me who already have money in a 529, so it was not like suddenly you had to start paying taxes on it. just going forward, we were going to change it. there were a lot of people who were already utilizing 529 class that started feeling as if changing like this in midstream, even if i am not affected right now, i like the program. it was not worth it for us to it was not worth it for us to eliminate it. the savings were not that great.

so we actually, based on response, changed our minds, and we're going to be paying for the two years of free community college with other sources including some of the tax loopholes we are closing. the short answer to your question is, 529's will not change at this point. [applause] a gentleman has a question right here. he is waving and everything. it is going to be a good one. eddie white with the indiana pacers. president obama: good to talk to you. >> basketball is really important to the state. this is indiana. years ago, on a radio show, you told me, when i asked you about your game -- you said you were a poor man's hey tayshaun prince. where are you today? and tamika says she is ready one-on-one any time you want. [applause] president obama: let me make a couple of points. first of all, she refereed the

game we played. when it comes to me playing her one-on-one, i am not sure. my game is a little broke. my game is a little broke. i mean up, a little bit. what happens is, sort of the risk-reward ratio starts shifting. like the chances of an achilles tear or an acl injury is increasing each month. and then the satisfaction that i get from playing diminishes, because i am so bad. and so i think, golf, likelihood of injury much lower. i still love the game.

this is a good time for me to give a shout out to the nba. mayor ballard mentioned the work he is doing with my brothers keepers. this is something we initiated in response to all the negative news that we were hearing about young african-american men and young latino men, and their interactions with police. we said, there are a bunch of issues we have to deal with on the criminal justice side. but we have to have an affirmative agenda to make sure that young people feel hope and opportunity, and pathways. and so -- [applause] the idea of my brother's keepers is, we are working with the private sector and public sector all across the country on mentorship programs, with mayors, talking to folks about doing a zero to three program. we know that if you invest early in young people, they are much

more likely to succeed in school. we know there are certain points in time when kids are more likely to drop out, or more likely to get in trouble with the criminal justice system. and so figuring out interventions they are reading at grade level at third grade, they are more likely to graduate. we want to make sure we concentrate on reading skills at concentrate on reading skills at that level. the interest and involvement has surprised even me. people have been really generous and stepped up to the plate. and the nba is participating. some of you watching the games some of you watching the games may have seen some of the ad of some of the players talking directly to the tv screen, saying to young people they matter. i just want to commend them for the great work they are doing on that front. commissioner silber has been very good on it. so we appreciate it. all right. let's see.

young lady way in the back right there. hold on one second, though. wait for the microphone. >> i want to get this right, so i am going to read it off. president obama: you do not have to talk that fast. you are just a little nervous. >> a little bit. i am a junior at my high school, cochairing a bipartisan event to help engage high school students in our political process. what do you do to attract high school students and get them more engaged in our country's politics? president obama: i love young leaders like this, juniors in high school taking an interest. [applause] make sure one of our volunteers gets -- what is your name again? isabel? ok, let's get isabel's e-mail and maybe i will send her a note

to kickoff the event next year. to kickoff the event next year. [applause] one of the big challenges we will have in this country is the lack of civic engagement. the lack of participation. in the last election, only about of the third people who were eligible to vote voted, a third. and, you know, u.s. -- you have elections that take place in ukraine, where they are in the middle of a war, and their participation rates are 60%. and here, with all the blessings that we have got, the notion that only a third of us would is vote that are eligible does not make any sense. and so it starts at a young age. and i think the most important

thing is, in any bipartisan event like that, is to help young people understand that politics is not some sideshow in washington. it is not some cable chatter yakking, arguing. it is how we, together, as a community, make decisions about our priorities. what do we think is important? when you are a junior in high school, if you are like malia, if you decide you and your friends are going out, you have got to make all kinds of decisions about, where are we going to eat? what movie do you want to see? you take votes, and you are trying to figure out -- maybe one of your friends does not have enough money, and we have to chip in to help make sure she can go to. -- too. the same thing is true for a country. we have got to make priorities

got to make decisions. are we going to invest in schools? are we going to make sure that when you graduate you can afford to go to college? are we going to make sure we are investing in the research that creates new medicines that will help cure cancer or parkinson's disease? are we going to make sure we are treating our veterans the way they need to be treated when they come home? how are we going to pay for that? who is going to pay for that? are we going to make sure we are passing on an environment with clean air and clean water? and how are we going to do that? how are we going to balance that with making sure that we are growing and economy, so when you graduate from college, there is a job for you? those are all the things that -- how are we going to balance that that politics determines. so i think, more than anything just helping young people

understand that this stuff matters to them, and that government is not something separate from you -- it is you. in a democracy, it is you that makes these decisions. and then making sure you got good pizza at the event is also important. [laughter] all right. and then making sure you got who is next? young man right here. [laughter] thank you. thank you. mark: i am -- first, i want to say thank you for the things you are doing and going to do for our nation. secondly -- [applause] president obama: thank you. thank you. mark: my name is mark kelly. my question is, what is the criteria and the requirements for this plan you are trying to propose? president obama: for which plan? mark: for two years. president obama: of college.

you would have to maintain at least a 2.5 average. so we are not going to -- there is no such thing as a completely free lunch. we want to reward people who are making the effort. because one of the problems we have, when it comes to college education, is that young people are not graduating fast enough. they are dragging things out too long. that just adds costs. and even if they are taking out loans, it is technically -- they are paying for it. the problem is that the more expensive it gets, the more likely it may be that they can pay it back. what we are saying is, you have got to earn it. you have got to have a 2.5 average. you have to maintain attendance. you have to stay on a schedule a and have a game plan at the front-end so you graduate on

time. there would be special circumstances like illness or what have you. the point is, this is not, you get two years of free goofing off. this is to help you achieve your goals. but that means you have to put in the effort. that would be the main criteria. all right. yes, right here. hold on a second. the mic is coming. >> my name is christine lee vickers. i am a veterans from -- a veteran from the u.s. army. and i am a member of the collegiate veteran association. president obama: which branch were u.n.? >> i was a mechanic. veterans get use the g.i. bill. they also get rehab if they are underemployed or use their g.i. bill, or if they were a cold war veteran, they never got that.

how does this affect a veteran cloth use of education? veterans today are dealing with unemployment rates higher than other people. they are dealing with unemployment altogether. and what is really important is getting a veteran who is dealing with posttraumatic stress or other problems to get an education and have people who understand the fact that they have issues, but at the same time, they have benefits they have earned and paid for through blood and tears. president obama: first of all, thank you for your service. we are proud of you. have issues, but at the same [applause] for those who qualify under the post-9/11 g.i. bill, you are already supposed to be getting the benefits that you have earned. and so nothing would change about that program.

as you point out, it is not just college tuition that is often a burden on our veterans. so i am very proud of the fact that i have increased veterans funding more than any administration since i have been in office. and a lot of it is focused on some of the challenges you talk about. for example, we made it much easier for veterans with posttraumatic stress disorder to qualify under disability claims. we expanded significantly the number of mental health facilities that were available. we set up, for example, special programs for women veterans, because they have differing medical needs, through the v.a. system.

another example that is really important is, we have been working with states and local governments around issues of licensing. so you said you were a mechanic. there may be, in a lot of states, licensing requirements for you to be a mechanic, or to be ems officer, or to be a nurse. and what we were finding was -- i still remember, i had a conversation with a guy in minnesota when i first came into office. it was in a little diner sitting down. he had just come back from iraq. he had two or three tours in iraq. and you can imagine what the emergency medic in iraq was

dealing with in 2006 and 2007. he decided he wanted to make a career as a nurse. he was having to come back and start with nursing 101. i mean, he had to start from scratch, as if he did not have this incredible wealth of experience and skill. and so we set out to work with state legislators and cities and others that oftentimes are responsible for licensing, to say, there has got to be transferability and credit for the incredible work that veterans do on the job, so that they do not have to start all over again and take a whole bunch of new classes just to get certified on stuff they already know how to do. and that has been really helpful as well. [applause]