[captioning made possible by the national captioning institute, inc., in cooperation with the united states house of representatives. any use of the closed-captioned coverage of the house proceedings for political or commercial purposes is expressly prohibited by the u.s. house of representatives.] the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: speaker's room washington, d.c., march 6 2015, i hereby appoint the honorable jeff denham to act as speaker pro tempore on this day, signed

john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the prayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroy. chaplain conroy: let us pray. eternal god, we give you thanks for giving us another day. the house has come to the close of an eventful week and we approach a weekend during which many members of this assembly will gather to remember a historic event in selma, alabama. 50 years ago, brave men and women americans of all races, colors and faiths walked together to help guarantee freedoms that were still denied men and women in alabama. bless the members of this assembly and us all that we would be worthy of the call we have been given as americans to nurture and guarantee democratic freedoms to all who dwell in our great nation. help us all to be truly thankful

and appropriately generous in our response. may all that is done this day be for your greater honor and glory. amen. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to section 2-a, the journal of the last day's proceedings are approved. the chair will lead the house in the pledge of the alegionance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. the speaker pro tempore: the chair lays before the house a communication. the clerk: the honorable, the speaker, house of representatives sir, pursuant to section 4-b of house resolution 5 114th congress, i'm writing to reappoint the following members to the house democracy partnership, the honorable david price of north

carolina, ranking member the honorable lois capps, the honorable sam far both of california, the honorable keith ellison of minnesota and honorable susan davis and honorable gwen moore and honorable mcdermott of washington. and honorable titus of nevada. thank you for your attention to these apointments. signed sincerely nancy pelosi. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to 10, u.s.c. 6968-a and order of the house of january 6 2015. the united states naval academy. mr. cummings maryland. the clerk: mr. cummings of maryland mr. ruppersberger of maryland. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to section 2-b of house

resolution 134, the house stands >> members on a break next week to work in their home districts. only the senate will be in session. senate will meet on monday. at 5:00, they will consider a number of president obama's proposals. at 5:30 p.m., they will vote on intellectual property coordinator. other issues awaiting actions, bills to permit and prosecute -- prevent and prosecute human trafficking. see the senate live on our companion network, c-span 2. president obama's town hall meeting coming up at 2:15 p.m.

until then, more from today's "washington journal." we will resume the conversation with ken walsh, already in progress. guest: lincoln was very divisive and controversial. of course, lincoln was elected largely by them north. almost completely by the north because the south had seceded because of this election. so, he was very controversial. what happened with lincoln -- one thing i want to mention, first of all. he did not understand the idea of image. he thought that he had such a rough image, people would not think he would be sophisticated and enough, or smart enough, to be president. he had matthew brady, a photograph of the time, to take

his photograph. he would take head shots of people in this relatively new situation called photography and he realized when he saw lincoln, lincoln was not a good-looking man. he showed up with wrinkled clothes, his wrinkles were obvious, so brady pulled the camera back. this was before a famous speech that lincoln gave at cooper union in new york. you can see in the photograph what brady, the photographer did, he took a full-length picture of lincoln, and you could not see the close-up of how he looks. he had his hand on a book, to give himself an erudite base. that picture was used for many years after that as the presence official photograph in many ways. when he grew a beard, that photograph was actually reattached to put a beard on

him. the picture was so famous. but lincoln, after he died, is when his celebrity really triggered. after his assassination what was happening then is he was becoming a figure of almost spiritual importance particularly in the african-american community because of the end of slavery, winning the civil war. he was becoming more popular because the war was being one. when he was assassinated, he was elevated to almost this divine status in many ways. then, you see all these pictures that were different -- the distributor of him being welcome into heaven. washington, he got a whole new plot to of fame, because he was assassinated. lincoln is now seen as one of our greatest presidents. historians, when they do rating,

he is basically in the top three all the time. with franklin roosevelt and george washington. lincoln was a growing celebrity, especially after the war was being one and his life was cut short with assassination. he has entered this dance the on our spiritual leaders and political leaders. host: richard in houston, thanks for holding. we are on with ken wash. caller: hi, thank you. i really enjoying this program. i think what you're doing is making the presidency more human. i have kind of a concern. we have a president, in my opinion, who is a great entertainer, but my disappointment has been the policies have come to fruition they don't seem to get enacted

as they showed. everything ends up like a mess. what i would like to know is which parents do you think have been not only great entertainers or celebrities, also the most effective administrators and policy makers? guest: very good question. you mentioned obama as an entertainer. this is a controversial, but very real question that presidents have to answer these days. we live as leverage of and culture in many ways. in my lifetime, more than ever, i believe. the presidents have to knowledge that. i think president obama has. a lot of people aren't comfortable with this, especially traditional thinking people, as to how a president should behave. as a obama's argument is that he needs to go where the voters are. >> we will leave the conversation here to go live to benedict college and columbia

south carolina for a town hall meeting with president obama. ♪ [cheering] [applause] president obama: hello, south carolina. thank you. it is good to see everybody. it is good to be back in south carolina. [applause] if you have a seat, take a seat. if you don't have a seat, i'm sorry.

i want to say thank you to benedict college. [applause] i want to thank you for the great introduction. we have all kinds of luminaries and dignitaries, and big shots here today, by would just mention a couple of them. one of the finest element and finest legislators that we have in the country, your congressman. [applause] your outstanding merit, stephen benjamin. [applause] the president of this great institution, dr. david swinton. go tigers. [applause]

it's been too long. it has. i'm not going to lie. you know, i love you. i've been loving you, it's just -- i have had a lot of stuff to do since i last saw you. it was wonderful to be back, because i saw film a wonderful people who i worked with back in 2008. if it wasn't for this great state, palmetto state, for all the people at the grassroots level who went door-to-door and talk to folks, that everybody fired up and ready to go. if it hadn't been for all of you, i might not be president. i'm truly grateful for that. [applause] truly grateful. i hope that you don't mind, i

also brought another good friend, the attorney general of the united states, eric holder. [applause] we decided to take a friday road trip together because eric has not only been a great friend, but an extraordinary attorney general. some, you know, will retire from public service but i know he will still be doing great things around the country. i'm really going to miss him. i'm not here to make a long speech. i'm here to make a short speech. why want to do spend most of my time having a conversation. i want to get questions and hear what you guys are thinking about. this is a good thing for me to get out of washington and talk to normal folks. [applause] i thought it was appropriate to come here because tomorrow i

will be visiting selma, alabama for the 57th anniversary of the march across the bridge. i'm still working on my speech, but it might, -- the meaning of selma for your generation. selma is not just about commemorating the past. it is about honoring the legends who helped change this country through your actions today, in the here and now. selma is now. selma is about the courage of ordinary people doing extraordinary things because they believe they can change the country, shape our nation's destiny. selma is about each of us asking ourselves what we can do to make america better. historically, it has been young people like you who have health lead that march.

-- helped lead that march. think about john lewis, he was 23 when he helped lead that march that transform the country. you think about the children's crusade in birmingham. the 12th-year-old boy that was elected the head of the naacp youth chapter who grew up to be jim clyburn. it was young people. [applause] it was young people who stubbornly insisted on justice. stubbornly refuse to accept the world as it is that transform, not just the country, but the world. you can see that spirit reflected in the poster put out by the student nonviolent coordinating committee, as a young john lewis kneeling and protest against an all-white slimming full, and it reads

come as build a new world together. , let us build -- come let us build a new world together. that is the story of america. that's why immigrants came here. the idea of holding a new world together not just settling on what is, but imagining what might be. insisting we live up to our highest ideas. our deepest values. that's why i want to come here to columbia, to benedict college because we all know we still have work to do. we have to ensure not just the absence of formal legal oppression, but the presence of an active, dynamic opportunity. good jobs that pay good wages. a good start for every child.

health care for every family. higher education that prepares you for the world without crippling you with that. -- debt. a fair and more just criminal and legal justice system. [applause] the good news is we are in much better shape now than we were six years ago. this morning, we learned that our economy created nearly 300,000 new jobs last month. the unemployment rate went down. [applause] honorably -- unemployment kicked down to 5.5% which is the lowest it has been since spring of 2008. [applause] i businesses have now added more than 2000 jobs each month for the past year, and we have not seen as a gleick that in 37 years.

since jimmy carter was president. [applause] all told, over the past five years, businesses have created nearly 12 million new jobs. what's more, the unemployment rate for african americans is actually falling more than the overall rate. which makes sense because it went up higher in the recession. but it is still too high. the unemployment rate across the country, and here in south carolina, is still higher than we want, which means we have more work to do. we have to make sure it those are good jobs that pay a living wage, and have benefits with them. we can't let up now. we have to do everything we can to keep this front is going. this community i know, is doing its part to prepare its students for this new economy. programs giving young

people, who may have gotten off track, get a degree and skills they need for the 21st century. americorps is in the house. icu jackets. they're working with public school in colombia to increase graduation rates. the benedict college community is doing outstanding work. [applause] we put you on the higher education community service honor roll. you are not on her. -- earned that honor. [applause] as long as i'm president, we will do what we can so that young people like you achieve your dreams. the can't do it for you. you have to do it for yourselves, but we can give you the tools you need. we can give you a little bit of a helping hand in the sense of possibility, direction. you have to do the work, but we can make it a little bit easier for you.

that's why, one year ago, we launched what we call "my brothers keeper." and initiatives that challenges communities to bring together nonprofits foundations businesses, and government focus on pathways for young people to succeed. this week, we put out a report showing the progress that we have made. that progress is thanks to the nearly 200 local leaders who accepted be "my brothers keeper" challenge. including the mayor of holy hill doing great work, mentoring young people, giving them a new pact to success. i'm hugely optimistic about the progress we can make this year and years ahead. ultimately, i am optimistic about you. young people in this country make the optimistic. the future we can build together. this new world, we can build

together. i'm proud of you. but, we have a lot more work to do. starting right now because i'm about to take your questions. thank you very much. thank you. [applause] got to make sure the mic works. here's how this is going to work. you raise your hand. if i call on you then wait for the mic so everyone can hear your questions. if you could stand up, introduce yourself try to keep your question relatively short, i will try to keep my answer relatively short. that way we can get more questions and answers and. the only other rule -- we will go boy-girl girl-boy. to make it fair. not just boys thinking they know everything.

so, who wants to start? c says it is her birthday, so we will call on her first. wait for the microphone. go ahead and stand up. we have to be able to see you. happy birthday. what's your name? >> i don't have a question. i just want you to talk to me. president obama: ok. happy birthday. all right. , you have to have a question. but it is your birthday, so we will make an exception. woman right there. in the back. i know i said boy-girl, girl-boy , but that didn't count. you. go ahead.

>> hello. i am a native chicago an. president obama: what are you doing here? >> i hear protecting the environment. i want to thank you for vetoing the keystone xl pipeline. you are what we hope for. you are what we voted for. as president obama: thank you. do you have a question? >> yes. do you think that will stop the pipeline? president obama: for those who do not know, the keystone pipeline is a pipeline that runs from canada down the united states to the gulf of mexico. it's proponents argue that it

would be creating jobs in the united states, but the truth is it is canadian oil that will then go to the world market. it will probably create about a couple of thousand construction jobs for a year or two, but it will only create 300 permanent jobs. the reason that a lot of environmentals are concerned about is because the way you get oil out of canada is an extraordinarily dirty way of extracting oil, and obviously there are a lot of risk of piping oil through nebraska grasslands and other parts of the country. what we have done -- i vetoed it because congress are trying to short-circuit a process we go through, i have not made a final determination on it. what i have said is we are not going to authorize a pipeline

that benefits largely a foreign company if it can't be shown that it is safe, and is, it cannot show the overall it will not contribute to climate change. now, a lot of young people here, you may not be worrying about climate change, although it is very cold out here. you can attribute a couple days of -- can't attribute a couple days of cold weather or hot weather to climate change, but it is undeniable that the world is getting hotter at a faster rate than experts expect. it's getting hotter, you may think, we deal with hot weather, we can manage. but when you have overall global temperatures go up, even if it means more snow in some places,

or more rain in some places, it won't be hotter in all places but the overall temperature is going up, that means changing weather patterns across the globe. it starts brazing ocean levels, it starts creating more droughts and wildfires in some places. it means that entire companies may suddenly not be able to grow crops which means people go hungry, which creates conflict it means diseases that once were only in tropical places start creeping up. that only, we have a whole new set of insect diseases, like malaria, that we thought we had gotten rid of. now, they are suddenly in places like the united states. we start running out of water. input stresses and strains on our infrastructure. hurricanes become more powerful when the water is warmer. which means a lot of our kohl's

the and towns are put at risk. -- coastal cities and towns are put at risk. i say that because you may not be worrying about this. you might be worrying about getting a job or if your girlfriend is mad at you, or getting through classes and exams, i appreciate that. but what you need to understand is this will affect you more than old people like me. i will be gone when the worst of this hits. and the disruptions, economic, social security disruptions that it can cause can make your life and the life of your children much harder and worse. if you don't stop it at the certain point, you can't stop it at all.

i just what you to understand -- well i just described, is not science fiction, it's not speculation, this is what the science tells us. we have to worry about it which is part of the reason why we have invested in things like green energy. you know, trying to increase fuel efficiency standards on cars, try to make sure we use more solar and wind power. try to find new energy sources that burn clean instead of dirty. everybody here and needs to be supportive and thinking about that because you are the ones who will have to live with it. i'm very proud of the fact that we doubled the amount of clean energy that we produce since i can president. we are increasing fuel efficiency standards on cars. [applause] which will save you, by the way money at the pump. it does. don't think that just because f isis are low right now, -- gas

prices are low right now i'm going to go out and buy a big gas guzzling now. the future is that gas -- oil will get more expensive, it will get harder to extract, we will have to transition over time to a new economy. there is huge opportunity. we can clear a lot of jobs in those areas if we are focused on and planning for it. thank you for the question. [applause] it is a gentleman's turn. have we got them i? just want to make sure. let's see. this young man right here in the red tie. do you always wear a tie or did you wear it today? >> i wear it always. present obama: i like that.

looking clean. >> majoring in business management. my question is tuition is very high. in the united states. president obama: can i make a lower? is that the question? >> and other countries it is free. what are your plans to assist those who are having trouble to pay for school? president obama: ok. let me -- [applause] let me just say this is a cause near and dear to my heart because michelle and i -- you know, we were born into wealthy families. the only way we got our education was because we got help. loans, grants, work study

programs. if we had not had the available to us, we could not have pursued the education we did and couldn't have achieved what we achieved. even with all the help we got, we had so much debt when we got married, that we had negative liabilities. we just join together areour net negative liabilities. it took us like 10 years to pay off our debt. for the first 10 years of our marriage, or loans were more expensive than our mortgage. it was only about two years or three years before i was elected u.s. senator before paid off my loans. now, the truth is that historically, the reason america

succeeded so well is because we have always been a head of the curve in it educate our population. we were the first country to say, let's have free public high school. when folks who had fought in world war ii came back, we gave them the g.i. bill. the middle class got built because people got skills. through much of the 60's and 70's, and 80's, our public university system was hugely important in giving people a pathway into the middle class. now here's what happened. typically, state legislators started cutting support for state universities. though state universities and colleges then decided, well we will have to jack up tuition to

make up for the money we have lost because the state is not giving us as much. that's how tuition started to get higher and higher and higher. now, what i have done since i became president was a couple of things. we significantly expanded the pell grant program takes the people like jim clyburn. [applause] it used to be that the student loan program was run through the banks and the banks would take a cut. they were making billions of dollars on student loans. i we said, why do we have to go through the banks, why don't we give it directly to the students save that money, and given directly to the students. increase the size of the program. -- tpell grant. we initiated a program that many of you can take advantage of which is we cap the amount percentage of income that you have to pay in repaying your loans. if you decide to become a

teacher or a social worker, you don't have to say no because you can't afford it. it's only going to be 10% of your income. so, it makes your debt payments manageable. but what we still have to do is deal with the question that you pointed out which is how do we keep tuition lord generally? the proposal that i put for this year is let's make community college is free. for those who -- [applause] now, it would be condition. you would have to keep up a certain gpa. you would have to put in some sweat, but the point is, those first two years are free. the advantage of that is a lot

of young people starting comedic colleges, and they may not want a four-year degree but they can get a two-year degree that gives them the skills they need to get a job and not have debt. even if you want to go to a four-year college, for a lot of people, it may be a good option to go to a community college for the first two years and transfer your credit, and you could at least save half of what you would otherwise spend on your four-year degree. we can do this just by closing some loopholes in the tax system that gives companies the ability to avoid paying taxes that they go. -- owe. so far, i have not gotten the kind of support that i would like for my republican friends senate, and house of representatives, but we will keep on working on it because it is of her idea. look, i want ultimately at least

the first two years of college to be just like public high schools are now. everybody -- it is very hard nowadays to find a well paying job without some form of higher education. without some form of higher education. even if you end up working in a factory these days, you go into a modern factory, it is all computerized and you have to know math and be able to function and a high-tech environment. so, it is a proposal whose time has come. we may not be able to convince republicans this year to get it done, but we will keep on going at this. ultimately, this is what will keep america at the cutting edge. if you are able to do that we're able to save you a little money so you will have a fair amount of debt that i had to take out when i got my degree. thank you for the question. [applause]

all right. it is a young ladies turn now. that lady in the orange right there. it's hard to miss. got the yellow and orange. did you wear that just so i would call on you? >> thank you for being here, president obama. my name is britney. i am a public relations consultant and community organizer. i am most proudly because i have two young black males. i have an 18-year-old and sydow, because i have a one-year-old. president obama: it took you that long to forget what it is like. >> i have a question for you particularly for my 18-year-old.

he is at south carolina state university. i'm very proud of the fact that he is there, but as i am sure you are aware particularly south carolina state university is facing an uphill battle at this point. i have a question for you about students like him who are there and other people across the world that are facing situations that are insurmountable, what the did you do to stay motivated? to keep him doing his best. present obama: the main thing you should tell him is listen to your mom. i hope you recorded that. look, i'm trying to remember what it was like being 18, 19, 20. it has been a while. the one thing that i always say

to young people coming up these days is you should be wildly optimistic about your possibilities and future. so often when we watch the nightly news, or read the papers, all you hear about is bad stuff going on. it just seems like man, there's war, strife, folks are arguing, conflict. the truth is that today, right now, you are more likely to be healthier, wealthier, less discriminated against, have more opportunity, less likely to be cutaught up in violence.

probably more than any time in human history. the opportunity for you to get information and edificat education expose yourself to the entire world, is unmatched. your ability to start your own business or carve your own past, it has never been greater. so my first and general point is do not get cynical about what's possible. you know, the second thing is, you have to work really hard. there is no free lunch. you can make excuses. -- can't make excuses. in particular, when i talked to young african-american men sometimes the sense is the cards are stacked against us,

discrimination is still out there, and so it is easy sometimes to pull back and say it is just too hard. this is part of why it's so important for us to remember selma tomorrow. it's not as hard as it was 50 years ago. it's not as hard as when jim clyburn was coming up and he is now one of the most powerful people in the country, growing up. south carolina. there are no excuses to put in the effort. no excuses to not hit the books. if you want a good education in this country you can get a good education, even if you are in a bad school. i will be honest with you, we need to do some work to make schools more it will. right here in south carolina there are schools that were held in the hundred's and had not been repaired, don't have decent restrooms. [applause] don't have proper books.

so, we still have to fight to make sure that every child, not just some, have equal opportunity. that is a worthy fight. but, you can still learn even in that school. even in the most rundown school. if you put in an effort, you can get an education. you can make excuses he even if you advocate for justice, you also have to make sure you are taking advantage of the opportunity you currently have. that brings me to one last piece of advice for young people. that is -- think about more than just yourself. think about how you can have an impact beyond yourself. the people who i know who are really happy and successful as the older, is because they have an impact on something other than just their own situation. they're not just thinking about how do i get mine, they are thinking about how does everybody get their fair share.

when they do that, that gives meaning to your life. like his purpose to your life. that gives you influence and a sense of purpose. you have to have a sense of purpose beyond the almighty dollar. we live in a free-market society and one of the things that that's america apart his business and entrepreneurship. folks out there trying to create a new product or service and a profit motive is strong. that's good. that's important. but, if that is all you are thinking about, and you're not thinking about how you can also have an impact through your church. if you're not thinking about how you can treat your employees right, when you do get a business, if you're not

thinking, once you do make it, what am i going to give back. if you're not thinking that way you will not be able to get through the tough times. what'st gets us through tough times is that sense of purpose. that's since of purpose cannot just be about yourself, it must be about something larger. [applause] all right. we have a young man right here. he's standing. standing tall. go ahead. yes sir. >> my name is chase adams. present obama: how old are you? >> 10. present obama: you are a tall guy. what's going on?

>> i was just wondering, when you are thinking about being president -- present obama: i wasn't 10. are you thinking about it? >> a little bit. president obama: remember, you have to be 35. you have at least 25 years to prepare. when i was 10 i was not think about being president. when i was 10, i was interested in being an architect. i was interested in building buildings. i thought that was cool. then, i went through a bunch of stuff, and for a while, i thought i might be a possible player wade turned out i was too slow and couldn't jump. so, i stop thinking that. then i became interested in becoming a lawyer. i did become a lawyer. what interests you now?

what subjects do you like in school? >> social studies. present obama: is that your dad behind you? to discuss issues with him? >> yes sir. present obama: the most important thing is make sure you work hard at school. i do it's really good if you get involved in service projects. you know, help out people in your community, whether it is through the scouts or your church, or school some other program. so you get used to try to help other people. make sure you graduate from college. then, who knows. you might end up -- i might just be warming up a seat for you. if you become president, i want you to remind everybody how

when you talk to president obama, he said go for it. all right. don't forget me. [applause] all right. he is 10 years old and be thinking about public policy. i just want -- i went all the folks in college to just noticed that he is reading the papers and talking public policy. if all you are did is watching the ballgame, -- you are doing is watching the ballgame, don't let this 10-year-old embarrass you. it is a young ladies turn. it's not going to help you go ing -- you have five people helping you out. i will call on one of the young

ladies did you do paper scissors? is that what happened? [laughter] all right. [applause] you did that fast. you should do that for everything. where are we going to lunch? >> good afternoon, mr. president. i have also a native of illinois. it is good to see you here. i'm also proud to be an americorps member here in columbia. at the hyde park school. president obama: there is a high parking at? the hyde park back home -- there is a hyde park back home. >> yes. my question for you, mr.

president, how can americorps and other programs support the goal of "my brothers keeper"? present obama: for young people taking a public service or want to serve before they go on to graduate school, or in some cases, want to get involved before they go to college, americorps programs are an and outstanding way to find your education. in addition to then getting these spiffy red jackets, they get placed in communities across the nation working in schools, communities in need, working on housing programs all kinds of different stuff. we are very proud of them. my brother's keeper -- the eye via, the genesis of this came after the trayvon martin story. you know obviously, there was

great controversy about how the case was handled. eric holder, by the way, has done an outstanding job getting our justice department to stay focused on the evil application of the law. at local and state, as well as federal levels. what i realize is also part of the goal ensuring that young african-american men succeed and young latino men succeed young white men who do not have opportunities succeed, is to make sure that everyone has a path that leads in a positive direction. you can't wait until someone is in trouble before you start intervening. you have to start when they are younger. you have to -- because the

statistics show that if a child by the time they are in third grade are reading at a level they are far more likely to graduate and succeed. if, a child doesn't get suspended or discipline in school they are far less likely to get involved in the criminal justice system. if they get through high school without being involved in the criminal justice system, they are far less likely than to ever get involved in a criminal justice system. so, there are these points where we know that if you intervene in a timely way, it will make a difference. what we have done is get pledges from foundations and philanthropist, we have recruited businesses we've gotten every agency in our government involved, and we got

cities, and your marriage is participating in this -- so columbia is participating in this -- and coming up with local plans for how we are going to give opportunities, pathways for mentorship apprenticeship, afterschool programs, job search , college prep, you name it, and each community comes up with its own plans. we are partnering with them and helping match them up with folks in their area who are also adjusted in resourcing these initiatives. americorps, i think, is a key part of it because where a city or state, or local community has a good plan, there's an opportunity for any other americorps program to be plugged

in to that plan and become part of that plan. my hope is that over the next several years and beyond my presidency, because i will stay involved in this, that in every city around the country, we start providing the kind of help that is needed to make sure our young men are on the right track. i want to point out, by the way i am not neglecting young women. as you might expect, michelle would not let me. she has initiated programs for mentorship, and we have an entire office in the white house for women and girls that focus on some of these same issues. but, there is a particular challenge that we face for african-american and latino men, young men of color, and we have to be honest about that. we are losing a large torsion of our generation -- portion of our generation.

a chunk of this generation and the previous generation. we have a council of economic advisers. even though there has been good job growth,, really strong job growth, and unemployment has come down, we have gone through the recession. the labor participation rate, the number of people actively seeking work is still low compared to what it was 10 years ago. we are asking ourselves why. part of it is the population is getting older, more people are retiring and not working. but that's not the only reason. and african-american community a big reason is that you have young people with criminal records who are finding themselves unemployable. now, that's not just bad for the individual, that's bad for their children, that for the community. so this is part of the reason why it is so important for us to rethink how we approach

nonviolent drug offenses, which is responsible for all lot of the churn of young men of color going to the criminal justice system. we have to re-examine how sentencing is happening. we know statistically, it has been demonstrated that african-american men are more likely to be a rested than their counterparts. more likely to be prosecuted, and more likely to get stiffer sentences despite the fact that they are no more likely to use drugs or deal drugs than the general population. that is a problem. [applause] we are going to have to look at reforms there, but for those that are already in the pipeline, we have to take about how do we -- think about how do we help them get the kind of help that they need. this is going to be something

that i'm devoting a lot of energy to because this is not just a black or hispanic problem, this is an american problem. if you have a big chunk of your workforce that is not working and that is the youngest part of your workforce, and they are never contributing to the economy, and not paying taxes, and not supporting social security, then the whole economy grow slower. everybody is worse off. this is not an issue for just one group, this is an issue for everybody. all right. [applause] it's a young woman's turn. it's a young woman stood -- bus to -- woman's turn. i'll be happy to sign your boat.

this lady in the back. i will make the mike person get some exercise. >> thank you, mr. president. good afternoon and welcome to south carolina. i'm an attorney in this area. in fact, my boss, represents the house minority leader. he is probably what it was not at the office, but nevertheless -- president obama: are you advertising for him to? will you give out your number and? if you need representation call . go ahead. >> i have two questions for you. the first one is -- what can criminal defense attorneys like

myself and mr. rutherford do to increase the number of federal pardons granted. the second question is, to whom do i need to speak to increase my chances of being a white house fellow. ? president obama: so, well, let me address the non- self-interested question first. i just had a discussion about the criminal justice system. you know, one of the extraordinary powers that a president has is the power to pardon someone who has artie been sentence. when i came into office, the first couple of years, i noticed that i was not getting a lot of recommendations for pardons.

at least not as many as i would expect. many of them were from older folks. a lot of them were people just looking for pardon so they could restore their gun rights. certainly, the more typical cases that i would expect coming up. i asked attorney general holder to work with me to set up a new office for or at least a new approach. historically, a president would get a stack of recommendations and sign off of them periodically i don't have time to go through each request. what we have done now is open it out so that people are more aware of the process. what you can do is contact the justice department. essentially, we're not working with the on -- we are now

working with the naacp various public defenders offices, community organizations, just to make people aware that this is a process you can go through. we have a pretty strict set of criteria whether we would consider you for a commutation. i assume that is available somewhere on the justice department website, is that correct? my first suggestion would be go to the justice department website. if the person does not qualify because they may have served time, but there were problems when they serve time, or if it was a particularly violent crime, they may not fit the criteria where we consider it. a lot of what we are focused on is nonviolent drug offenses where somebody might have gotten

25 years and she was the girlfriend of somebody and somehow got caught up and since then has led an exemplary life but now really wants to be able to start a new career or something like that. that is the kind of person typically that will get through the process. in terms of the white house fellow program there's a whole white house fellows committee and it is complicated, and i do not have any pull on it. i do not put my thumb on the scale because if i did i would get into trouble because then people would say he just put his friends on there. you got to go to the process, but you seem very well-qualified, so good luck. >> thank you. president obama? : you're welcome. it looks like i am ok. you know what, he has been

waving, and i got to make sure he is not waiting because out of his periphery, i just saw him the whole time. >> i have two questions. will you son my book. my question -- i guess it relates to the michael brown case, and i have just recently seen a report that suggested there has been grave in justices going on in ferguson. i am trying to figure why the attorney general eric holder receipt -- refuses to press charges against the police

officer. why didn't he faced the federal charges? president obama: i will answer the questions. that was two questions. that's it. you do not get a third question. sit down. this is how folks will get you. my reporter friends here, they are famous for doing that. they will be like, mr. president, i have a four-part question. i will sign your book. with respect to ferguson, keep in mind there are two separate issues involved. the first is the specific case of officer wilson and michael brown. and that is typically a charge that would be brought and dealt with at the state level and the

local level. the federal government has a role only if it can show that there was a significant miscarriage of the justice system and had clear evidence -- now i am not being overly technical -- but basically, the federal jurisdiction here is to make sure that this was not just a completely wrong decision. they do not retry the whole thing over again. they look to see if at the state level due process occurred and the investigation was conducted.

the standard for overturning that were coming over top of the state decision is very high. the finding that was made was that it was not unreasonable to determine that there was not sufficient evidence to charge officer wilson. that was an objective thorough, independent federal investigation. we may never know exactly what happened but officer wilson, like anybody else who is charged with a crime, benefits from due process and a reasonable doubt standard and if there is uncertainty about what happened, then you cannot just charge him anyway just because what happened was tragic.

that was the decision that was made, and i have complete confidence and stand fully behind the decision it was made by the justice department on that issue. there is a second aspect to this which is, how does the ferguson police department and the government of ferguson, the municipality treat is african-american citizens when it comes to law enforcement? and there the finding was very clear, and it is available for everybody to read. what we saw was that the ferguson police department, in conjunction with the municipality, saw traffic stops arrests, tickets as a revenue

generator, as opposed to serving the community. and that it systematically was biased against african-americans in that city who were stopped, harassed mistreated, abused, called names fined and then it was structured so that they would get caught up in paying more and more fines that they could not afford to pay or were made difficult for them to pay which raised the amount of at additional money that they had to pay and it was an oppressive and abusive situation. and that is also the conclusion that the justice department arrived at. the steps that are now to be taken is that the justice department has presented this

evidence to the city of ferguson, in the city of ferguson has a choice to make. they are basically going to have to decide do they dispute the findings of the justice department -- and i should not comment on that aspect of it, although i will say that what is striking about the report is a lot of this was just using e-mail from the officials themselves. it was not like folks were just making it up. but the city of ferguson will now have to make a decision, are they going to enter into some sort of agreement with it justice department to fix what is clearly a broken and racially biased system? or if they do not then the justice department has the capacity to sue the city for violations of the rights of the people of ferguson.

[applause] and -- you know -- here is the lesson that i would draw from this. i do not think that what happened in ferguson is typical. i think the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers here in south carolina and anyplace else, young men sit down, i am in the middle of talking -- all right, thank you. the overwhelming number of law enforcement officers have a really hard, dangerous job and they do it well and they do it fairly and they do it heroically. [applause] and i strongly believe that.

in the overwhelming majority of the police department across the country -- departments across the country arm thinking really hard about how we make sure we are protecting and serving every body equally, and we need to honor those folks and respect them and not just assume that they had no will or are doing a bad job. but as is true in any part of our lives as is true in amongst politicians, as is true among business leaders, as is true among anybody, there are circumstances which folks do not do a good job or, worse, are doing things that are really unlawful or unjust or unfair. and what happened in ferguson is not a complete aberration.

it is not just a one-time thing. it is something that happens. and one of the things that i think frustrated the people of ferguson in addition to the specific case of michael brown was the sense of, you know what -- we have been putting up with this for years and now that we are talking about a come everybody thinks it is in our met imaginations, like we're making it up. turns out they were not making it up. this was happening. and so it is important for all of us and then to figure out how to move together to fix it. how do people of goodwill, in law enforcement, and community come everybody worked to fix it and find concrete solutions and to have accountability and oversight and transparency in terms of how law enforcement works? and what of the great things that we did out of a tragic

situation was we were able to form a task force made up of law enforcement, lease chiefs -- police chiefs, and community activists, including two who got the ferguson marches and protests started and they came up with a consented document that was presented to me last week that was very specific in terms of how we can solve some of these problems. how we can make sure that police departments provide data about who they are stopping in traffic and data about how many people are killed in confrontations with the police, and how are those cases handled and how are we training our law enforcement to respect the communities that they are serving, and how do we make sure we have a diverse police force, and how do we use technologies like body cameras

and how do we make sure when something happens that may be an unjustified shootings that people have confidence in that prosecutors are independent. there is a legitimacy to the process that they can trust. that is good not just for the community, good for the police department, so that they feel like they can get out from under a cloud if in fact the officer did the right thing and if the officer did the wrong thing, the department should want to get rid of that officer because they are going to undermine trust for the good cops that are out there doing a good job. so the point is that now our task is to work together to solve the problem and not get caught up in either the cynicism that says this is never going to change does everybody is racist. that is not a good solution, not what the folks in selma did. they had confidence that they could change things and change

people's hearts and minds. you have to have the ability to assume the best in people, including law enforcement and work with them, and flip side is the larger community has to be able to say, you know what -- when a community says systematically that it is having some problems with its law enforcement, you got to listen and pay attention and engage constructively to build trust and accountability so that it gets better. so often we get caught up in this and it becomes a political football instead of us trying to solve the problem. and our goal should be to stop circumstances such as ferguson or what happened in new york from happening again. at should be our number one goal, and it is achievable, and we got to be constructive in going forward. [applause] all right. i got one more question. valid is a woman's turn.

men, put down your hands. i am looking around. it is not going to be a guy. ok, we will call on this young lady right here. oh -- i'm sorry. go ahead. >> i am also a native of chicago. president obama: i did not mean to call in three chicagoans. >> go ahead. >>i'm a senior majoring in psychology. one of my questions is chicago has struggled with gun violence. what organizations and programs are you guys designing to keep the youth off the streets and into better conditions? and how can we as a community help you guys execute this programs and designs? president obama: i already

mentioned my brothers keepers. each community is going to have its -- this is an example where you got to work with the police department effectively and build trust. we know that things like community policing really were, where you are partnering with law enforcement, they get to know young people when there is still in school, before they are in trouble, people have confidence that that law enforcement is there for them, not just for -- in taping down stuff, but in lifting people up. my brother's keeper and other initiatives are going to make a difference. you mentioned gun violence, and that is probably the hardest issue to deal with. we have a long tradition of gun rights and gun ownership in this country.

the second amendment has been interpreted i the supreme court to mean the people have a right to bear arms. there are a lot of law-abiding responsible gun owners who use it for protection or sport they handle their weapons properly, there are traditions of families passing down from father to son or daughter, hunting and that is important, part of our culture, part of who we are. but what we also have to recognize is, is that our homicide rates are so much higher than other industrialized countries. by like a mile. and most of that is attributable to the easy, ready availability of firearms, particularly handguns.

now, the courts and state legislatures -- and i am sure this is to in south carolina -- have restricted the ability to put in place common sense -- some common sense gun safety laws, like background checks. i personally believe that it is not violating anybody's rights that if you want to purchase a gun it should -- be your responsibility to get a background check so we know you are not a violent felon or that you don't currently have a restraining order on you because you committed domestic abuse -- right now we do not know a lot about that. it is not available.

in that does not make sense to me. i will be honest with you. i thought after what happened at sandy hook that that would make us think about it. the hardest day in my presidency -- i have had some hard days -- but nothing compares to being with the parents of 20 6-year-old kids, beautiful kids, and heroic teachers and administrators in that school, two, three days after they had just been gunned down in their classroom, and you would've thought at that point, that has got to be enough of a motivator for us to want to do something about this. and we cannot get it done. i mean, at least at the congressional level. so what we have done is we have tried as much as we can administratively to implement

that ground checks and to make sure that we are working with those states and cities and jurisdictions that are interested and willing to partner with us to crack down on the illegal use of fireamrs particularly handguns. but i will be honest with you, in the absence of more -- what i would consider heroic and courageous stances from our legislators, both at the state level and the federal level -- it is hard to reduce the easy availability of guns. and as long as you can go on in some neighborhoods and it is easier for you to buy a firearm that it is for you to buy a

book there are neighborhoods where it is easier free to buy handgun and clips than it is for you to buy a fresh vegetable as long as that is the case, we are going to continue to see unnecessary violence. but i will end by saying this -- despite those frustrations despite the failure of congress to act, and in some places it goes the opposite direction people say we should have firearms in kindergarten and we should have seen guns in bars -- you think i am exaggerating? you look at some of these laws,. despite those frustrations, i

would say it is still within our control to reduce the incidence of handgun violence by making sure that our young people understand that that is not a sign of strength, that violence is not the answer for whatever frustrations they may have or conflicts they may have. and to work diligently with our young people and in our communities to try to put them on a positive path. and the people who are going to lead that process are the young people who are here today. you are going to have more impact on the young people coming up behind you and anybody else, and the kind of example you set and the willingness of all of you to get involved and engaged in a concrete way, to remake our world together, that is what is going to determine the future of america.

and looking out of all of you, you are what makes the optimistic. -- that makes me up optimistic. thank you. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪

>> president obama finishing up this meeting in south carolina. it is his first visit to the

palmetto state. we will re-air this later or watch anytime online at www.c-span.org. ♪ >> as we leave benedict college, earlier this week the supreme court heard the oral arguments in the case of king v. burwell. join us tonight when we will broadcast those arguments on c-span. you heard a moment ago that the president mentioned the 50th anniversary celebrations going on in selma this weekend. we will tell you more about coverage plans.

we wanted to show you this tweet from congressman john conyers. looking at an exhibit on rosa parks. " visiting my former staffer and the mother of civil rights." politico reports none of the top republican leaders will be attending this this weekend. here's a look at our program and other programming coming up here. here are some of our programs for this weekend. on c-span2 saturday night at 10:00 eastern, david morris on the history of post-traumatic stress disorder that affects over 27 million americans, including himself. sunday night at 8:00, scott taylor argues the obama administration is hurting our national security. on american history tv, the commemoration of bloody su

nday. on saturday beginning at noon eastern, we are live from selma with your phone calls, followed by the commemorative ceremony with president obama and congressman john lewis. on sunday coverage continues with a service from the historic brown chapel ame church. find our schedule www.c-span.org at 11 us know what you think of the programs you are watching. call us, e-mail us, or send us a tweet. join c-span conversation. like us on facebook. follow us on twitter. >> join us tomorrow when american indians discussed the stereotyping of native american culture.

here's a brief look at some of the discussion. >> this is a well-intention teacher somewhere who was teaching hurston's about thanksgiving because thanksgiving is required content -- was teaching thanksgiving. this is what they have been teaching. now, this is innocent play, isn't it? these are kids and they are pretending, which is what kids do, and it seems innocent enough. but a couple of things. first of all it is rather unlikely they would pretend to be people of any other race than what they are. that would be understood almost immediately as inappropriate but not when it comes to indians. the other thing is that this,

that innocent play, turns into this, a group of sorority girls dressing up as indians, or frat boys dressing up as indians, or little later hipsters dressing up as indians. these guys -- i mean, i do not know what that is all about -- [laughter] what is this thing with dressing up as indians? then it turns into this becomes commercialized. victoria's secret come every year, and of course, this. and so what starts out as innocent play eventually becomes ignorant and racist. >> you can see that program saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern 5:00 p.m. pacific. "the new york times" is reporting that corruption charges are going to be charged

against senator robert menendez. the investigation is focused on his relationship with a florida eye doctor. prosecutors said mr. men that -- mr. men andendez did favors for the doctor. up next, remarked from the prosecutor and the lead defense attorney who discussed the unit bomber case last november when they were joined by the head of the fbi's task force. from the u.s. district court house in san francisco, this is just under two hours. >> it was in may of 1978 when a

professor found a mysterious package in the parking lot. when a campus policeman attempted to open the package, it exploded, injuring the officer. this was just the first of 16 bombs delivered over a span of the next 17 years to individuals in various locations across the united states. all but two of them caused serious injuries. three resulted in death. law enforcement shortly came to the conclusion that the bombs were all being sent by the same person, whom they dubbed the unabomber. understandably, the public was struck with fear, not knowing when or where the unabomber would strike next. the investigation came to a head in 1995 when the unabomber sent a 35,000-word essay to "the new

york times," "the new york post," "penthouse" magazine, and other publications. it contains his so-called manifesto. it offered to cease the bombings if they would publish it. with the approval of law enforcement, "the times" and "the post" published the manifesto. when david kaczynski read the contents of it, he began to think the unthinkable, that it was written by his brother, ted. working with the information provided by david kaczynski, law enforcement was able to obtain a search warrant for a cabin occupied by ted kaczynski and an area near lincoln, montana. with what they found, law enforcement had enough to arrest ted kaczynski, and the decision was made by the united states department of justice to bring the prosecution here in the eastern district of california. the decision was also made to ask for the death penalty.

the defendant was indicted in april of 1996, and the trial began in the courtroom of the united states district in late 1997. after a lengthy jury selection process in january 1998, the defendant suddenly agreed to plead guilty in exchange for a sentence of life in prison without parole. in our panel discussion here this evening, we hope to discuss among other things how the fbi managed the investigation of such series crimes, expanding over such a lengthy period of time and such a vast geographical area. we will discuss the effect that those crimes had on their victims, one of particular. we will talk about why and how the decision was made to allow the publication of the unabomber's manifesto. we also hope to discuss what was

involved in seeking and obtaining a search warrant. and how the decision was made to bring the prosecution here in the eastern district of california. we hope to learn about the prosecution strategy, including a decision to seek the death penalty. we will also learn the defense strategy. finally, how the agreement was ultimately reached to the defendant to plead guilty in exchange for a life sentence. we have a distinguished panel with us this evening to discuss the subject. their resumes are found in your program. first to my immediate left terry turchie was a special agent for the fbi for 35 years. between 1994 and 1998, he was the assistant special agent in charge of the unabom task force. he is co-author of four books, one of them entitled "hunting

the american terrorist: the fbi's war on homegrown terror." and the most recent one, which has the most relevance to this discussion, is entitled "unabomber: how the fbi broke its own rules to capture the terrorist ted kaczynski." our next panelist, to his left is gary wright. he was the victim, he prefers to say survivor, of the unabomber's 12th bomb attack on february 20, 1987. he has since developed a friendship with the defendant's brother david kaczynski. to his left, judge robert stephen lapham is a california superior court judge. he was the assistant united states attorney for the eastern district, handling several

high-profile cases between 1984 and 2013. he was a member of the prosecution team in the kaczynski case. finally, to his left, quin denvir is a sacramento attorney who served as the state public defender from 1977 to 1984, and at the time of the unabomber trial, he was the federal defender for this district and lead counsel on ted kaczynski's defense team. i would be remiss if i did not introduce one other individual who is present, but not on the panel, the judge who presided over the kaczynski proceedings judge garland burrell jr. now, to get off the discussion why don't you tell us how you got involved in the unabomber investigation and how that came about. >> it was a reluctant

involvement. on myself, on april 1, 1994, at 12:35 p.m., and i can give you the seconds in the palo alto president agency where i was happy working national security cases can i received a call from our assistant special agent at the time. he said that he just got off the phone with jim freeman, our special agent in charge at the time, and here is what i have to ask you. how would you like to come up to san francisco and take over the unabom task force, which had been established after the 1993 simultaneous bombings, both of those mailed from here in sacramento to different parts of the coast. i smiled to myself and said, that's a nice offer, ed, i'm good here. i love palo alto. i love being around stanford, so i'm good. but thank you. there is a pause and he said it was not a multiple-choice question. [laughter]

i would like you to consider coming up here as soon as you can. i said, ok, how about one month? that will give me time to wrap up everything here and we can find a new active supervisor and i will head up to san francisco. he said, how about in a couple of hours. most of us because of the length of the case, and i will use the words sheer hopelessness, that's how we thought about it, we all tried to avoid that corridor that housed the unabom task force. that's how i got started. >> the investigation had been ongoing for a number of years. can you summarize what the fbi had learned? >> the investigation had gone since may 1978, and even though they were 14 bombings, there would be two more bombings while we were assembled. we did not know a lot, but we

knew certain factual details where we had questions, but we had no answers. in looking back, particularly at the first three crimes, they became very important to us as we tried to look at a new way to put this case together. the first bombing, the one that happened in may 1978, the main question was this -- there was a package found at the university of illinois campus in the scientific and technology building parking lot. it had $10 in uncanceled stamps. somebody went to pick it up and eventually got it to the police and was harmlessly exploded, but we were never able to answer that question as to why we had a package with the return address of northwestern university in chicago and $10 in uncanceled stamps. why wasn't this package mailed? by may 1979, another bomb was

found, only this was found inside northwestern university. that struck us as very interesting because the first on -- bomb we had a return address with northwestern, and now we had a bomb at northwestern. so we thought a lot about that and we tried to look at what possibly could be a connection between the two bombs. then the bombing in november 1979, which got everyone's attention. a bomb was placed on american airlines flight 444 headed for washington national. there was a bomb placed on the plane via the mail that had been built with a barometer and fashioned as an altimeter. when it did go off, because it was under a lot of luggage, it started a fire than rather

explode as it was supposed to. by the time this plane did an emergency landing at dulles airport and the pilots were able to get down and take a look at the damage when the fire was out, they were prepared to say that years later had this fire burned just a couple more inches closer to the main hydraulic line, this plan would have crashed and there would've been nothing we could have done to stop it. so at that point, the fbi expert looked at this bomb and the parts and thought it's very strange that we have not seen any other bombs built by someone who would do this. we sent out a bulletin and an alert to all kinds of agencies. he got a call from the atf. they referenced the first two bombings in 1978 and 1979, brought all this together, and then we realized in november of 1979 that we now have a serial bombing case. >> how did the name unabomber get coined? the first two bombings were involved at universities northwestern university and rpi,

in troy, new york. the first bomb with a return address of northwestern. the second bomb in the graduate student room in may 1993 at northwestern gave us universities as targets. at the time this bomb was placed on the american airlines flight, we have universities and airlines. so, the fbi was asked to attach fancy names to its cases, and they certainly did -- university and airlines bombing, unabomber. >> we have a chart of the bombings. what was the sequence of events after the first three? >> after the first three bombings, we would eventually have 13 more bombings, for a total of 16. in 1980, the airline aspect of this got another boost.

the president of united airlines in his lake forest, illinois, home received a package in the mail, but a week before he received the package he received a letter come and the letter was written to him by someone named -- or signed the letter nenoenoch fisher. it said you are going to be getting a package from me, but any buddy like you who makes decisions affecting the public welfare needs to read a book that i am sending you. burke turned out to be a novel that was written at the time even the author sloan wilson said i'd did not have any social significant to my, i just came up with it one day. the person who would receive that package next week. when he went to open it, the book had been carved out and there was a built into the book. he suffered stiff get injuries

when he opened this book in his house. that was the fourth event. all of those had a nexus to chicago. then no more nexus for chicago. done with chicago. by 1981 we move on to salt lake city. in 1981, a bomb was at that the utah business building, exploded in the bathroom. we were not able to do much with that. a few months later we had yet another calming. this bomb was mailed from brigham young university and ended up with a professor at vanderbilt university in tennessee. the next bomb in 1982 was at berkeley. that became a very important bombing. the victim, the person who fortunately was able to survive his injuries, had gone into another graduate student room on the fourth floor of the

university of california at berkeley at corey hall, and when you go and does it that and look at that area, you realize that someone who came up and had the presence of mind and was not anxious about coming to this location on the fourth floor to floor to leave this bomb here, very similar to what happened in northwestern with bombing number two. that really made us start to think about that. then, no more bombs between 1982 to 1985. we then started calling 1985 the year of the unabomber. there were four bombs in 1985. one was to boeing corporation, addressed to the boeing fabrication division in seattle, washington. all of the evidence from that bombing was gone, never to be seen again because it was detonated harmlessly in a tar pit. we could never get anything back from that bombing. after that, another bomb at

corey hall at the university of california berkeley, this time as you walk off the street on the street level and go down a very narrow corridor that was occupied by graduate students. again, just like the bombing in 1979 at northwestern. by the fall of 1979, we had a bomb going to professor james mcconnell. finally, in december of 1985 unabomber had his first success with one of his bombs. that was right here in sacramento, california, out here at the old century plaza strip mall, a place called red tech computer store, the owner of that store came out from the door into the back parking not -- lot one day around noon and

he saw on the ground line by a cart what appeared to be a road hazard. in his mind, it was kind of a combination of two-by-fours nailed together. there was nails protruding. unbeknownst to him, inside these pieces of wood, the bomber had carved into the insides and build a bomb. when he went over to move this so it wouldn't cause problems for any harmless passerby, as soon as he reached over to break the contact between that device and the ground, it exploded. >> the next bomb was in salt lake city, and that involved our next panels, gary wright. why don't you tell us what happened. >> sure. similar to what terry was saying with the structure of the bombs.

1987, i owned a computer company in salt lake city. my family worked there with me. i had been out on calls working from 6:00 in the morning and got back to the office around 10:30 a.m. and pulled in the rear parking lot of our building at that time. as i pulled into the parking lot, i looked down and next to my secretary's car, so i pulled in next her's, there was a piece of wood that was similar to what you say, but different. it was two two-by-fours put together and had four nails sticking out of it. those four nails have always stuck in my mind, because i can always remember one in particular that was on the right-hand corner. it was bent just a little bit. they were also the shiniest nails i had ever seen. they looked like chrome, something handmade. i walked out of my car and went over and thought there is something i need to get out of the road. when i went over and went to pick it up, there was something really quiet wrong.

there was an immediate feeling of huge pressure and the sound of a jet fighter going over, a screaming sound, if you will. instantly, i had moved a long way. i did not know how i got there. i realized that i was jumping up and down like i was on a pogo stick. i was hollering for my family. everybody worked for me. my mom, my dad, my brothers. they came out the back of the door. as i'm jumping around back there, the only way i can describe the next thing i saw was like the matrix. everything went into slow motion. you hear this at times. i can tell you it was true. i was looking at the power and the telephone lines that went into the building and they were moving in a slow sine wave. i was watching pieces of things drift down around me. there was a piece of red tape that was spinning around like confetti. i was thinking this is the

weirdest thing i've ever seen. what happened? at that second, i really thought well, i'm not going to make it. i thought somebody had come around the corner of the building and shot me with a shotgun for some reason. my family came out at that point and i could see my dad was trying to say something to me. i was reading his lips because it was like being underwater in the swimming pool. you're kind of here, but not really here. he had been a state trooper in salt lake and had seen lots of things. i could tell he was pretty upset. i was going, dad is upset, maybe this is bad. slowly he and my brothers took me over and sat me on the edge of the tailgate of one of the trucks and sat there for a few minutes and i started to get shock coming at that point. while i was sitting there, i was

dressed nicely with a dress shirt on, and i saw my pants were gone from the knees down. i had on a white dress shirt and there were these things i couldn't figure out what they were in the beginning, they were just like threaded through my shirt like needles. i thought, what the heck. i kept trying to put my head down to look, but i was having trouble understanding what it was good when the bomb exploded, it was in situ before spending been hollowed out. it was all of the slivers. they had impaled themselves for the doctors later told me that you look like a porcupine. that is something where they say life changes in a minute, but it it changes in a millisecond. you just never know. we walked into the building. i got really calm and took everything off, my hat, gave it to my mom, and laid there. i guess i really realized it was pretty serious because the next thing i see coming through the back door was like 25 police

officers, and the ambulance screw comes in, five of them. excuse me. they said, well, this might be worse and i thought. i guess the real moral of the story is that it's not fun when they cut your clothes off and your mom is sitting there. [laughter] it is probably the most humbling thing you will run into. i was asking my mom to leave. this is not so good right now. ultimately, that day, they took me up to the hospital and i waited about -- i got there at 10:30. at the hospital -- and they started surgery at 6:00 p.m. no painkillers at that point. the body's natural morphine is a pretty amazing thing. if you get hit, it really doesn't hurt. that was a good thing for me to know. i went through three surgeries. the first night they basically went in and found that i had

severed a nerve in my left arm when the bomb exploded. it was moving very rapidly. when some of that metal came apart, it was actually liquefied , and when it went into my arm it cauterize the artery. the metal was there. i was pretty lucky in that regard. that night they did a bunch of the stuff to cut about 200 pieces of shrapnel from my legs and things like that. that was on a friday, friday the 20th of february. i went home sunday. i decided to recover it home. two weeks later, i went back into the hospital for another surgery to try and graft the nerve on my left arm together. they had to take the funny bone out and move it to the top of my arm. i tell people now that there are things that don't work, but i'm

probably the fastest nine-fingered typist you will know. i'm good with that. finally, a surgery later had to transfer tendons and things in my hand, and it was really strange when the doctor got in there. i have three tendons in my thumb. it was funny, because i needed to graph one of them to my index figure. his little weird, strange -- i don't know why those things happen -- that's a morning that probably changes your family's life in ways you don't know. >> terry, how much time passed between the bombing that killed -- and the bombing that gary just described? >> we had six years go by. >> between the time of the bombing before his and gary's, six years in between those? >> run that by me again? >> how much time between the bombing and the bombing that

gary just described? >> the bombing was in 1985, and gary's bombing was