weapon, and you are willing to go to war to get it, a war you will have. and you will lose. that is the only thing they understand over there. our military is going to historic lows because of budget cuts. the next president needs to give us the capability to defend against iran or anybody else that would threaten our shores. the last challenge is an $18 trillion crushing debt that is growing over time. anybody here born between 1946 and 1964? anybody born after 1964? good luck. [laughter] we want our money. their 80 million baby boomers about to retire in the next 20

years. somebody needs to deal with that. you could take everything the 1% in america own including their dog and not come close to balancing the budget. you cannot tax your way out of this problem. you could eliminate the department of defense in every other department we have and not balance the budget. two thirds of spending his entitlement spending and interest on debt. by 2042, all of the money you pay in taxes will go to pay the bills for medicare & the security. -- social security. the system cannot tolerate the numbers we are retiring in. when i was born, there were 16 workers for every retiree. how many today? three. how many in 20 years? sen. graham:2.

i am the problem. i'm, not married no kids. you have to come up with an immigration system. design --or you can have four kids after you are 67. [laughter] i have one guy races and betty did not understand the question. [laughter] we better find people to work in this country outside this country. western europe, japan is going through it. here is the good news.

we are a land of immigrants. this is natural for us. we have people that talk funny. nothing personal. [laughter] we have different accents but we have shared values. and american is not a race or religion it is an idea. here is my idea. let's do what we need to now so those coming after us will have the same hopes and dreams and ability to achieve those that we did. tell me how you can save america from financial ruin without reforming entitlements. tell me how you can do it without democrats and republicans working together. tell me how you can save america without this being done soon. when i was a young man time i needed every penny coming from

social security. if i had to give up some color increases -- cola increases, i would do it. i would ask younger people to work a little longer because we are all living so much longer. i would give you a chance to do that. i would tell people who make $200,000 a year for retirement, we will no longer give you a subsidy to give you part the prescription drugs under medicare because we have to borrow that $109 or more grandkids -- from your grandkids. i think most people would say ye but if you're notot willing to ask america to sacrifice, our best days are behind us. since then 11, 1% of us have been sacrificing a lot.

they come home broken, some have come home in boxes. one they talk about political courage, put it in the context of what real courage is. real courage is living or family, going to faraway places and dealing with the craziest people on the planet to defend your nation. it does not take much courage to tell somebody you have to reform entitlements to save america. it just takes a little leadership. to the business community here we can talk about our business about tax codes, regulation. anything you want to talk about. but there is no way to save our economy and future if you don't have the retirement of baby boomers. if you don't get that right it'll have the same effect on our economy if a radical islamic had a nuclear weapon. we will blow america at

ourselves. here is my promise. if i got to be president, i would go to bed every night and i would wake up every day thinking about attacking our country and making it stronger for the next generation. that is the least i could do for a country who has been so good to me. thank you very much. [applause] >> we had time for a couple of questions. sen. graham: sorry about that.

>> would you talk to us about your views? how you would handle legal immigration? sen. graham: immigration reform. have you ever met an illegal canadian? [laughter] i had not either. you have? really? you're the first guy have ever met who says they know an illegal canadian. you are on the border, right? most canadians come to myrtle beach in march and go swimming because nobody else wants to go swimming in march in south carolina. we treat them well, they turn blue, and they go home. they like the experience and we like having them. the people here illegally came from poor, corrupt countries and

they come here to work, don't you think? it is an economic issue. you have two borders. it is no accident one is not a problem because the country on the other side as a rule of law nation and a sound economy. the people coming come from there that places. -- there that places. don't you think a lot -- very bad places. don't you think a lot of us look the other way? anybody work in a meatpacking plant? anybody want to work in a meatpacking plant? immigration is an economic issue and if you don't secure your border, you will have more people come. does that make sense? if you don't control gets a job it doesn't matter how high the well is because they will keep coming. to the employers in this room do you live in fear of hiring someone legal trying to be honest? the system does not work very

well. the only documents you need to get a job in america is a social security card. anybody like ronald reagan? i can make you ronald reagan by midnight. i can go to boston and get you a social security card. if control gets a job, you will cut off the flow. if you don't increase legal immigration, you'll put every employer in a box. the high-tech community needs workers because we are not producing enough engineers in america to service the high-tech community. if you are a meatpacking plant you need workers because you cannot find people to work those jobs. i come am a big tourism state. -- i come from a big tourism state we needed 600 service workers to service a tournament. under a law, you have to

advertise with benefits. we advertised within the community had 12 applications and three of them failed a drug test. we are 500 and 90-something workers short. you need high skilled labor because we are not producing enough people to service the industry..you need low skilled -- you need low skilled labor to make sure the economy works and agriculture does not move to mexico or another place. you will not get what you want unless the other side gets something they want. to every business person in the room when you come to washington, it seems so easy. why don't you just increase visas? the cuts we have a shortage. -- because we have a shortage. the hispanic caucus wants

something to. they want a better life for the illegal immigrant. until you deal with democrats on that issue, you will not get header border security, legal visas, and a verifiable employment system because they will not give us all what we want without getting something. here is the good news. nobody wants criminals. if you are a gang member or drug bag, off you go. i've come to conclude that the 11 million will not self deport. does that make sense? to the republican party, let me tell you how life is in america today. many have been here illegally for a generation. they come as he on people, they marry, they have children that are american citizens as much as anyone in this room.

families are structured that way all throughout this country. hispanics are the most patriotic people i have ever met. the largest percentage of minorities in the marine corps are hispanics. let me give an example of a problem the republican party has. sergeant gonzales, and i make nothing in, served to force in afghanistan -- two doors and afghanistan. he comes home and says, where his grandma? she is a legal. she is walking back to mexico. that is self deportation. he is not going to let his grandmother walked back to mexico. he is probably going to have a hard time listening to my economic plan for a revitalized america if he believes i am the guy that wants his grandmother to walk back to mexico. i have got one goal.

six this permanently. i don't want 11 million 20 years from now. ronald reagan gave 3 million people embassy and the did not secure the border, increase legal immigration, or change how you control who gets a job. if you don't do those things, you have a way that after wave. -- you have wave after wave. if you do these things right, that'll be the end to illegal immigration. you have to deal with democrats if you're a republican and vice versa. i wish they would go away but i don't see that happening anytime soon. i have been in the gang of 8, 6, any gang you want. i have been trying to solve this problem because it is a national security problem. it is one thing to put a roof on the house, another to blow the roof off. 40% of the people here illegally never came across the border.

the hijackers extended their visa. if you cannot access labor in the future, our economy will die. finally, i want a merit-based immigration system to replace the current one. you get points toward a green card based on the ability to speak the language and the ability to provide a job skill in demand in america like most countries do. as for the 11 million, if we allow you to stick -- tuesday, a have to speak our language learn the english language as a condition. as poorly as i speak it, it has helped me. you have to pay a tax -- fine. you have to pay taxes on the don't get paid under the table and you have to wait 10 years before you can apply for a green

card and when you do, you have to get in the back of the line. it could take 15-18 years but i don't what people saying for in in our country all of their lives without a chance to be who we are. we are not the country of the hired help. i have been working on this since 2006. i hope the republican party can make some progress in 2015 but if america does not get immigration right, our economy cannot grow in the future. the hispanic vote in south carolina you could put in this room. a thing i have tried to offer is political leadership not focused on my next election but the next integration -- generation.

>> thank you for coming to new hampshire. i wonder if you could talk about sequestration. people who depend on research funding at universities and education, on the student loans. they are concerned about it coming back. sen. graham: sequestration. do you know what he is talking about? it is latin for politician doing really dumb things. we will send --the goal was to find $1.2 trillion in savings over a decade. a noble goal. the punishment for the supercommittee's failure was to be so onerous that nobody would feel. well we thought the supercommittee would work, i don't know. i guess calling it super was the key. they super cell short.

-- fell short. now, we are in a budget across the board cutting exercise. the budget is about 35% of all federal spending. we are down to 2008 levels on the discretionary side. if you don't yield entitlements you will never balance the budget. the nih cdc department of education will be out historic levels of spending are the end of the decade. the fbi and the cia who defend us are going to have budgets you would not believe how low. we will be firing agents inside of hiring more as the enemy gets stronger. 600 billion comes out of the military. by the end of the decade, we

will be spending 2.3% of gdp on our national security. the historical average is 3.5%. does it make sense to you to have the smallest army since 1940 and the smallest navy since 1950 by the end of this decade? does that make any sense at all given the duress we face? how do you fix sequestration? lindsey graham, roger wicker, we are trying to find a way to buy back the $540 billion left on sequestration to avoid destroying the student loan program and getting the military. this is something that cannot wait until the next presidential election. you have to get republicans, democrats substituting the cuts. you need to pose some loopholes in the tax code that benefit the

few at the expense of the many and take that money to buy back sequestration. you need to address entitlement in some fashion to get most of the money. to those in make over $200,000 a year and get a subsidy or medicare, i would rather take that money and buybacks requested because you can afford it at the military parts of the government needed. it will take a bipartisan goal. two the republican party, i will not allow us to pass a budget -- ronald reagan is rolling over now because it is republican party thought it was a good idea to put the defense department on a chopping block as a county if you cannot find a budget agreement that would barely move the needle on the overall debt. only congress could find a way to cut this small amount of

money and destroy the defense department in the process. this is the single dumbest thing . the single dumbest thing i have seen happen since i have been in congress. putting the programs you and your families depend upon at risk. senator ayotte is a mother of two young children. she has become one of the rising stars. she has been at the table on immigration, finding a replacement to sequestration. thank you for sending her. jeanne shaheen has been very good to work with. almost everybody in new hampshire is a woman in government. one guy in congress.

new hampshire is isil's worst nightmare -- women running the place. [laughter] >> one question from aarp. >> thank you senator. great presentation. your priorities are right. the security of the country comes the first really. i am and volunteers spokesperson for aarp. we talk a bit before. i am glad you mentioned about your sister being held vessels of security. in -- being helped by social security. we would like to know what would be on the table for consideration in strengthening social security today. sen. graham: what would be on

the table is making it solvent for 75 years so that the people coming after us would have it. how many of you have a 401(k) plan? how many of you worry about outliving your 401(k) plan? social security in the future will be as important to the american worker as it was in 1935. you can outlive your 401(k) plan and it is the only defined-benefit plan left in america a musty work for the government. 50% of today's seniors would be in poverty without a so-so -- a social security check. i would give up some of my future benefits to make sure it was there for people like my family in the future because i can give up some, i am in a good spot to do it and i would do it in a new york minute. i would take less of a cola

increase because i can afford to do that. changing cpi in a more measured way, i would do to make sure the benefit plan is going to survive the retirement of the baby boomers. doing nothing regarding social security means that in about 20-30 years, you will cut benefits across the board for everybody or you will have a massive tax increase to keep the system going. i will not let that happen as long as i am in the senate. if i do run for president and i got to be president, i would get aarp in a room and we would lock the door and till we got it right -- until we got it right. there would be white smoke. [laughter] it would be the desire of my presidency to get this fixed once and for all so seniors don't have to live in fear of

being without. to do nothing destroys social security. to do nothing increases taxes and reduces benefits. to those who think we should do nothing, you are the author of the demise of social security. to those who think you can do this without asking people to sacrifice, i'm dying to know how because i cannot figure it out myself. a little bit of leadership on this issue goes a long way. i would suggest the program to make sure upper income americans would still get a check but they would have to sacrifice a little bit to protect the people who need a be most. i would keep it solvent as far as the eye can see. we are going to have to adjust the age of retirement on the medicare side slowly but surely. as do not care, how many people think of obamacare may be stricken down this summer by the

supreme court? as to the republican party, what is our substitute? i think the republican party should come up with a health care plan, a set of principles and every republican running for every office should say, i agree with these principles. the first principle would be talk to democrats. we are not going to do to them what they did to us. the first principle would be take some of the things that work out of obamacare and keep it. no one should be denied coverage because you have been sick before. i have been through that. it is ok to have your children on your policy until you're are 26. i am ok with that. the american dream used to be getting your children having a better life than you did. the american dream now is getting your kids out of your house.

[laughter] the bottom line is one it comes to health care reform, more competition across state lines medical malpractice reforms, a few things i could go into in great detail -- the number one principle to fix a obamacare is to require the parties to work together because they have ideas also. the real challenge is not as a security. -- social security. the real challenge is medicare. >> good to have you here senator. with regard to the radical islamist threat, congress has the power to declare war. that power is not limited to territorial states. what is your position with regard to having a clean declaration of war against isis and other radical islamist

groups? sen. graham: i am sure you all have to go to work in a few minutes. this is a good one to end on. we will have an authorization to use military force. the president of the united states has power as commander in chief to conduct war. i don't believe in 535 commander in chief's. when it comes to being commander-in-chief, i find the current one lacking. next time you vote for president, make sure the guy or gal has at least run a lemonade stand. enough about obama. the authorization to use military force is constructed in a fashion that will not allow us to destroy isil. it has a three-year time limit ty. probably not a good idea to go

to war with a time limit. it has a limitation on ground forces i don't understand. i have been a judge advocate. i don't know how to inform military commander what the rules of engagement should be with a restriction saying no and during offensive capability. what do you tell a commander? at onewhat is the prohibition? how do you translate it into rules of engagement? syria is the biggest problem of all. let's assume you get a rock -- iraq put back together again in syria, they will come back. you cannot win without an american ground component. i hate to tell you, we will have to go back. a good news is we don't need

100,000 but if you don't have some american ground forces, we will lose. our air friends i appreciate very much but a reason we need to be on the ground is to make sure they don't start shooting each other. i will not outsource our security to some mythical arab army that is not exist and i will not rely on iraqis to defeat isil alone. the first question -- do you feel threatened by isil? there are 4000 western passport holders that will come here like they did in france if we don't watch it. it is in our national security interest to defeat them. you need an american ground component. i worry this will limit the size and scope of it. you need air controllers helicopters, american air power logistical support, people on the ground doing things they

cannot do for themselves to make sure they win. then you go to syria. this idea of training the army made a lot of sense three years ago. they have been decimated. in number of people to be trained this year is 5000. isil is recruiting faster than we can train the army. if we sent a syrian army unit in to fight isil and assad tries to blow them up, can we engage assad's air force is to protect the people we tread? they said no. this authorization is not allow us to provide air cover. assad will kill them all. it is immoral and militarily unsound. i will not vote for authorization to use military force that ties in militaries and so we cannot win a war we

must win. i am so sorry we have to go back. i am really sorry we have to go back. we should have left some troops behind. we may have made a mistake going into iraq. bush made tons of mistakes. the authorization would be simple if i wrote it. do what you have to do to destroy isil. stay as long as you need to stay, go where you need to go to kill and capture these bastaerrds. they represent the worst in humanity. we are running out of time. there are more terrorist organizations with more capabilities, more weapons and people and save havens to attack

america than any time since 9/11. if i were president, here's what i would do. they are large, entrenched and rich. they would be poor, small, and on the run. we would go back and stay this time. we would stay until we get it right. the day after you defeat isil come all hell will break out. -- isil, all hell will break out. if you are looking for someone to find to give you an easy way out, don't come to me. the only way we will win is through a generational struggle where we side with those who live in peace with us and the good news is most people over there want to live in peace with us and they don't want to give their daughters to isil.

they have the will to say no, we have to give them the capacity to say no. after transfer military capability and the capability to run an economy and good governance something we take for granted here. that is a generational struggle. to those in my party who say we need to get out of there, that is not the right answer. we need to stay over there so they don't come back here. i don't know how to not have some of us over there. this is a generational struggle. here is how it ends. we will win eventually. the only question is how many people must die before that day comes? this is the 1930's all over again. hitler wrote a book and nobody actually believe it. to our friends in israel, you are not the problem.

the problem is that israel is not the threat to america. our friends in israel, i will never ever abandon you. to our friends in israel, you stand for all the right things. to our arab friends, you want a better life? i will help you get there. to radical islamists, you will be defeated. god bless you. [applause]

>> we want to thank the senator for finding time out of his very busy schedule. we welcome him back. we have a feeling he may be spending more time in the answer and if and when -- sen. graham: you will be the new camp david. [laughter] >> if you make that decision make it here at politics and eggs to let people know what your plans are. sen. graham: i shall return. [applause] >> thank you, general. i appreciate it. we will go back and get it right this time.

sen. graham: thank you for coming. >> thank you for your position on immigration. i wish the house would get on board. sen. graham: if they don't, we are in trouble. thank you. >> how did this idea come to?

politics and eggs? >> i was driving from cleveland to new hampshire. i said, the business community is not getting involved. we had a subscription service and everybody subscribed and we said, you want to see all of the candidates. eventually, we had to counsel involved. it has just taken off. sen. graham: it has become a must-do. >> can i get a picture? sen. graham: thank you very much. >> wouldn't go ration of or deal with all of these issues? sen. graham: not really.

[indiscernible conversations]

the needs to be a coalition of environmental to create a carbon economy. but also using the fossil fuels that we already own with canada. you are not going to displace fossil fuels for the next 50 years. but you can start an economy that will create jobs for the future. what about international agreements? senator graham: the problem is that the one with china -- india and china are the two highest carbon emitters. how about we create lower carbon economy? i don't know if you can get an agreement with india and china but time will tell.

[indiscernible] mr. perry: senator graham: what were you doing in charleston? >> visiting my family. senator graham: warmer weather, but great day for food. charleston has got it all. >> i know, it is so nice. thank you very much. senator graham: i tell you what probably not a good time to talk about global warming this week. go tigers! when did you graduate? >> 2012.

i came from the downtown central near walmart, so i didn't have are to walk. -- have far to walk. that is where the bus dropped me off. senator graham: so you are in the air force now? >> army reserves. senator graham: thank you for your service. what is your career field? we're going to our intel capabilities. but budget cuts might turn that around. senator graham: isil hates us both equally. >> thank you. thank you for your speech.

senator graham: this is the coolest idea. >> i'm from virginia and i think i can understand you a little better. senator graham: thank you very much. senator graham: outstanding, we will have somebody come by and visit. >> please do. senator graham: we would love to have you at the event in the museum as well. there you go. you can patiently wait. [laughter] no one left behind. >> thank you very much. >> senator, if i could trouble you for a couple of these? great talk yesterday, great talk today.

senator graham: you been to both? >> oh yes. by the way -- you have become a topic on the local radio station around here. on my way in, it were talking about you on meet the press about not having done e-mails. they wanted to know what are the opinions about you not having done e-mail? senator graham: mr. perry: i get all kinds of input and text messages, but i decide who to call. i think i am in touch in other ways. [laughter] >> very nice meeting you. thank you very much. senator graham: so, thank y'all. questions? a news conference, i guess? whatever you all want to do.

only can say is he wasn't charged officially. they leaked the navy charge, i hate it when that happens to anybody. i'd like -- like bob. like everybody else, he is innocent until proven guilty. he was a champion on the arabian nuclear issue. -- iranian nuclear issue. >> it may be political -- senator graham: i don't know but leaking a potential indictment -- leaking at all nobody deserves that. nobody wants to read in the paper that you may be indicted. i am just disgusted with the whole process. >> there is a big republican presidential field.

you are not shying away from integration with primary voters. senator graham: you get any pollsters around here, when you ask primary voters if you should deport the 11 million and give them a chance -- were given the chance to pay taxes all of the things in the senate bill -- about 65% of republicans thinks that is good. i understand border security. we have to get that right. i understand more legal immigration. what i'm trying to tell my friends in the republican party -- the 11 million need to be dealt with in a fashion to get a bill passed. as to the others, they need to be dealt with in some form other than a deportation.

i don't like the idea that you can live your the rest of your life but never have a chance to become an american. they should do it in a fashion that is long and hard. i don't like the european model. all i can say is that we needed to fix immigration, our national security issues, our coastal issues, and economic issues. i am proud of the work i've done. jeb bush, i think is talking in the right way. i am not going to give an inch on the idea that trying to solve illegal immigration is a bad thing for republicans to do. >> senator, do print like this make you feel more likely to run , less likely to run, or do they make a difference? senator graham: it is a huge difference. it makes me more likely to run between the two events because i think i connect people well here. i think they generally like what i have say, and the process of running has been a ton of fun.

other than getting ghosted a live yesterday, it was a great event. -- getting roasticed alive. this is fun. you get to talk about serious topics and laugh. running for president in new hampshire, to me would be fun. and i like the idea that you have to show up and stand in front of a crowd. >> where do you stand on another round of stage three alignment enclosures? senator graham: if you have to do sequestration you have to close a lot of our bases. i want to tell members of congress if you want to keep your base open, can't have it both ways. sequestration is fully and committed, you're going to cut the military to the smallest number sent 1940. to me, that is the dumbest thing we can do right now, given the threats. to implement sequestration, you

would have a hard time. all right, thank you. >> thanks senator. [indiscernible] senator graham: we created the sanctions. this is about the sanctions ukraine. -- sanctions you created. that is not the way you run a war. >> thank

>> wrote the white house coverage continues -- this weekend, roads to the white house coverage continues. boston herald.com reporting on remarks from a former gop -- ted cruz will not darken our doorstep. he says senator cruz represents everything that is wrong with the republican party. he goes on to say, ted cruz is someone who will not darken our doorstep. he does not seem interested in campaigning to all americans but only appealing to a fringe. you can read more at boston herald.com. >> road to the white house coverage continues in dover, new

hampshire, with a meet and greet with former governor jeb bush. and sunday, remarks by ted cruz at the lincoln reagan dinner. also here on c-span. >> on the next washington journal, trita parsi discusses the role of congress in the iranian nuclear innovations -- negotiations. and what is being done to improve women's rights and opportunities. john cook talks about efforts to obtain access to larry clinton -- hillary clinton's account. >> former texas governor rick

perry spoke at the politics and eggs breakfast on thursday. the potential 2016 candidate discussed foreign-policy issues and the u.s. economy at this event cohosted by the new hampshire institute of politics. this is 45 minutes. >> welcome back. >> good to be here. >> my son set next to you when you came through the last time. he spoke to you about texas and all of that. >> it is happening. what is he doing now? >> he is in pharmaceuticals and going for his masters. ess engineering. senator graham:mr. perry: in what engineering? >> process engineering, it is

biomedical tech. he tried to get into texas. mr. perry: there is some fascinating stuff going on in texas -- we became, in this last year -- actually in january 2014, texas became the number one high-tech's exporting state. >> i know, that is going on. mr. perry: people always say texas is an oil and gas state it is gas centric. we are proud of our oral and gas industry, and it plays an important role. it is -- i will not say stagnant, it makes up around 14% of our gross product. the rest of the state is incredibly diversified in biotech, high-tech. texas medical center has more doctors and nurses than individuals coming in every day. >> i just wanted to say

congratulations for coming through again. i look forward to seeing more. mr. perry: tell your sonnet to keep us in mind as he grows. -- your son to keep us in mind. >> i was here as well. mr. perry: get our picture here, margaret. what do you do caitlin? >> i do communications. mr. perry: ok, you have an important role to play here. very good. >> i've learned titus -- laryngitis. >>better mr. perry: -- better you than me. you have an excuse to keep it sharp. thank you for doing that.

what have you been doing? >> i'm down there three days a week. mr. perry: you keep a home here and then keep an apartment there? >> we have an office. just bringing people together. mr. perry: i may talk about that a little today. i find that dysfunction one of our real challenges in this country. governors don't have that luxury. we have to get things done. and we have never done anything big --

>> hi, how are you? >> the governor of massachusetts. watched them to weeks ago -- [indiscernible] mr. perry: not one big issue did i pass in texas without democrat help. it is what this country has to have. we have to get past this talking past each other. it is one of the things i'm critical of the president on. he has really divided this country. he has divided us by gender, by race, by economic strata. we have to get over that.

i grew up on a very rural cottage farm. we went for -- we weren't poor. i didn't grow up that had running water until i met 7-8 years old. i didn't meet a republican or one that would even admit to be one. i was elected three times as a democrat. reagan made it ok to be a republican in texas. hey, come here jim. jennifer, thanks for being here. >> locally being a running mate. mr. perry: mr. president, it is an honor to be here in this university, and to all of you, good morning. i found that on my numerous visits back to new hampshire

over the course of the years that you all appreciate plain talk about as well as any place in this country. and you want to hear some very plain talk about the challenges that we have in this country. and that is the spirit of which i come today, to share with you this vision of mine, and on three points i want to be very very clear. first, our country has entered -- and i think a time of testing, a time -- our political leadership is feeling that test. -- is failing that test. the american people see a president who is in denial about the threats we face, making

grave miscalculations that make the world less safe. isis filled the void of failed policy in iraq and syria. in american tanks, with american weapons, isis began taking cities that just a few years ago had been freed by the blood of american soldiers. in these highly orchestrated videos, we are seeing broadcast to the world, beheadings. we are seeing a young jordanian pilot burned alive. these people have filled mass graves with muslims and christians alike. they have terrorized women.

they have declared a caliphate over an area as large as the united kingdom in that part of the world. and let's be clear about who isis is, what they represent. they are a religious movement that seeks to take the world back to the seventh century. their aims are apocalyptic, to cleanse the world, not just of christians and jews, but of muslims who do not agree with their extreme ideology. and it is their stated vow to kill as many americans as they can. heard the truth. the president declared in his state of the union address that

the advance of isis had been

stopped. that is simply not true. he says isis is not a religious movement. again, he is simply wrong. to deny the fundamental religious nature of the threat and downplay the seriousness of it is naive, it is dangerous and it is misguided. if the leaders of egypt and jordan -- if they recognize we are at war with radical islam, isn't it time that our president admitted the same? the fact is we did not start this war. we do not choose it. but we need to have the will to

finish it. now, let me state another obvious fact about the middle east. it is not in the interest of peace and security in the free world that iran would be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon. here is another country where our president is naively miscalculating the intentions of a brutal regime. i believe it is fundamentally dangerous to grant iran's nuclear ambitions diplomatic cover. our discussions with iran should be governed by two nonnegotiable principles. number one, iran should not be allowed to become in possession of a nuclear weapon, period. and, secondly, israel should be allowed to develop -- or excuse me -- they should have the right to exist as a jewish state. now, put all of that into the context. see, watching all of this unfold in front of us is the president of russia. he has been watching, as our president set a redline in syria that was crossed without consequence. and when he canceled plans to deploy the missile system in poland and the czech republic, vladimir putin was watching. and it was against this backdrop of weakness and empty words that putin then annexed crimea, he invaded ukraine, and it was in those conditions that allowed him to negotiate a one-sided cease-fire at minsk with no real consequences. it from my perspective, it was a sorry sight to see russian -- western leaders rush to minsk to sign a second cease-fire that russia would invalidate just as quickly as they did the first.

here is the civil truth about this. -- the simple truth about our allies doubt us and our enemies, our adversaries are all too willing to test us. and too often today we negotiate treaties and cease-fire agreements from a position of weakness rather than of strength. my point is this -- as a former captain in the united states air force, as a pilot who has flown into many of those regions in the middle east, including saudi arabia, i am not eager to pursue a military solution, the military action in that part of the world. for 15 years, we have tried a steady diet of military solutions to resolve ancient religious differences in the middle east. and i have seen the impact.

i have seen the impact of these policies on our warriors, on their families. for a good seven years of my period of time as governor, from 2003 until 2010, there was hardly a week that went by that i did not write a letter, that i didn't visit a family, that i do not go to a hospital expressing my appreciation, my regrets for the loss of a life the sacrifices our heroes had made and their loved ones had to deal with. wars must always be the last resort after all other options are exhausted.

but we need to understand the essential lesson of history here. it is the strength and resolve in the face of threats that we face that guarantees peace for our children and for future generations. it's weakness and vacillation and wishful thinking regarding these dictators and totalitarians that endanger the peace of the world and drive global chaos. for the world to be safer, i believe with all my heart america must be strong. -- must be stronger. and along that same thought process, if you will, along that same line, for america to be stronger, our border must be secure.

drug cartels and transnational gangs are smuggling drugs and weapons and people across a porous border today. they are a clear and present danger to the health and safety of america. any conversation that we have about comprehensive immigration reform must begin with comprehensive border security. and that is exactly why last summer, when i met with president obama, and we discussed this issue of border security, i told him if he would not secure the border with mexico, texas would, and we did. now, here's the second point that i'm going to be clear about today.

the american people know that the united states economy can be vibrant again. ronald reagan knew that weakness at home led to weakness abroad. we have to revitalize the american economy if we are going to reassert america's strength abroad. now, we are told we are in a recovery. yet labor force participation is at its lowest level since 1978. one in 10 american workers are unemployed, underemployed, or have just given up hope of trying to find a job at all. one of five children live in families that are on food stamps. we need to look them in the face and ask them, is that the best that america can do?

the president may be satisfied with 2% economic growth. i am not. the first time in american history, a generation of leaders are on the verge of breaking the social compact, if you will, with the next generation. that is, that we leave a better country for them than what we found for ourselves. fewer of us believe in the american dream now than in the last 20 years for middle-class americans. opportunity and security have been replaced by worry and anxiety. out-of-pocket health costs housing, college tuition, all of them have gone up faster than wages have. student debt is at an all-time high, and this has to change. it is time to restore hope and opportunity to middle-class america.

start with our tax code. we had the highest corporate tax rate in the western world. that doesn't hurt companies, it also hurts the american worker. economist will till you that if you cut the corporate tax rate i 10%, it will lift wages for the middle class worker by between 5% and 10%. that is what we need to be focused on, helping raise those workers' wages. we need more than just corporate tax reform to help the workers. we also needed to simple fight the tax code -- simplified the tax code so that you reduce the tax burden on all individuals. we also need to tackle the inequities that are caused by this. frank regulation -- dodd frank regulation.

it did not eliminate "too big to fail." in fact, it codified it. it funds wall street while it restricts access to funds for main street. because of legal compliance is no overwhelming our community banks. those of you that come from small communities in no those banks may be the only institution in our rural areas to fund economic development there. they happen to provide half of all the small business loans in this country. this contributes that perception -- and i would argue the reality -- that the big institutions of big government can take care of their own while main street gets the crumbs. we need to stop the excessive

regulation that kills jobs. they harm small businesses, cost every american family -- these regulations come almost $15,000 every year. that is the cost of this overregulation. we needed to repeal every perverse incentive that prevents people from looking to work. one of the many flaws of obamacare is that it causes employers to move people from full-time work two part-time work just to avoid this massive new insurance cost and that needs to be repealed. the next resident should look at all of the regulations that harm full-time jobs, harm full-time work, and in them -- and end them, period. that needs to be the straight up

work of the next president of the united states. we haven't $18 trillion debt. -- have a $18 trillion debt. every department, every agency needs to be required to look at every dime they spent and justify that. liberals in washington have spent 30 years criticizing reaganomics while delivering trickle-down liberalism. their view is clear -- you give more power and money to the government, let the liberal elites take care of their causes and leave an ever shrinking pie for middle-class americans. their answer to jobs is spend close to $1 trillion in stimulus , wash the money through this huge bureaucracy, and and hope a few jobs get created.

no wonder that washington is now the richest metropolitan area in america. not because they create wealth but because they redistribute it. redistribution is not a strategy for wealth creation. only economic growth is, and that only happens in the private sector. but me tell you where the economic revival is occurring or one of the places it is occurring in an extraordinary way, and that is in my home state. instead of expanding the welfare state, we have built the freedom state. our formula was simple -- control taxes and spending, provide smart regulation and develop an educated workforce and stop lawsuit abuse at the courthouse. that is it.

those four principles they will work anywhere. in my 14 years as governor, we helped create nearly one third of all the new private sector jobs created in united states. in the last seven years, from 2007 to 2014, that number would -- we created 1.4 million jobs in that state. minus those jobs from the total jobs created in america, that number would be 250,000 jobs in the red. under my leadership, we had 14 years of balanced budgets, never skipped a debt payment, never raised taxes and i signed the largest tax cut in texas history. for more than a decade, we have led the nation in international

exports. just last january of 2014, texas became a number one high-tech exporting state in the nation bypassing california. in 2013, we had the second-highest high school graduation rates in america. we had a 118% increase in hispanic participation in our higher education, mr. president. i might add on that second-highest high school graduation rate, that is in a state with a very large population of english as a second language, a really challenging group of people to teach, but they're getting the job done. i happen to think it is time to bring that type of economic revival to every state with policies that limit government

instead of expanding it. here is the third point. i have never been more certain than i am today that the best years are ahead of us in this country. i'm optimistic about the future because i know that the weakness and incompetence of our government should not the confused with the strength and ingenuity of the american people. our experiment in this republican form of government is too durable to be sidetracked by a confused administration. we survived worse. we survived a civil war, two world wars, great depression we even survived jimmy carter. [laughter] and we won't survive the obama years as well. -- we will survive the obama years as well.

there's nothing wrong with america that cannot be fixed with a change of leadership. i see in america, wages are on the way up, freedom is on the march, where opportunity is the birthright of all and not just dispensed by a few out of washington to a select few. an america that the world again that stands with our allies, , where citizens can dream again and an america where the of our founding fathers ideals and our children's dreams. thank you and god bless you. [applause] >> the governor has agreed to answer couple of questions. governor perry: what he said was i have agreed to do a couple of questions. please introduce yourselves. [laughter] i'm sorry. >> i paid for this mic

governor. [laughter] questions for the governor. maybe i can ask the first question. the young lady here. >> thank you for allowing me to ask my question. i am from new hampshire. i teach in a committee college. what will you do to change how campaigns are financed and please address how money corrupts and controls our political system, what you can do to change that. governor perry: i come from a state that has no limits on campaign contributions and we are all about disclosure. i am a big fan of disclosure.

i think that you disclose where you get the dollars coming you do it almost immediately. in the world we live and with technology available, you can require that where those dollars come from, who those individuals are, and i think the american people are smart enough to know whether or not they think that is too much or whether that would corrupt the process. i happen to think the limiting of dollars is not the issue, i think the transparency of the where the dollars come from is the real issue and we need to be substantially involved with making it be a more transparent process. >> thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. great presentation. i thank you for your time. i am bob, a volunteer with aarp

new hampshire. my question is domestic and it is about medicare. we recently took a survey at aarp and it was of those residents of new hampshire 50 years of age and older. a big point they made was they are concerned about health care and the insurance they hope saves them from heavy bills but they are particular about medicare. will it either for them as it is the next generations? governor perry: that is my medicare registration. i spent an inordinate amount of time on the telephone and got a really nice and capable lady helping me as i worked my way through this. obviously, the challenge that we have as a country is that these

entitlement programs in the out years are not sustainable. that we all need to be honest about that, and not honest about it for me or you, but honest about the next generation that is paying into these programs and expect them to be there and to have that safety net as they mature and become senior citizens. we need to be honest about how we are going to deal with that , and come up with solutions whether it is adding years to when you get that. i think most thoughtful people would say that is one of the alternatives out there. to really think about this $18 trillion debt we have doesn't take into account these numbers. for us, for the next president and congress not to legitimately

touch that and find the solution for that is unacceptable. we have to get commitments from all of the candidates -- all of the individuals wanting to be candidates, and our members of congress to work together to find solutions to these programs. >> thank you. >> don't raise your hands all at once. >>mr. perry:: that wasn't a set up wasn't? i just happen to have this my pocket. what he gave me was in -- was an aarp membership registration. [laughter] >> could you talk about the next resident -- next president on

entitlement reform. how realistic would it be that if you were elected president he could work with a divided congress? governor perry: i think americans are so sick of the gridlock in washington dc. people walking past each other not getting anything done. walking on the floor of the house and walking away and taking your toys and leaving and that is not acceptable. one of the reasons i do think that our nominee -- i am obviously biased about this but i think the executive experience of having to get things done -- governors don't have the luxury of just having a conversation , giving a speech, and walking away. there was not one big thing that occurred in texas, not tort

reform, not education reform not those major budget issues we have to deal with, that was done with just republicans. there were democrat chairs democrat leaders we had to work with. i think the next president of the united states -- and i'm critical of the president and the divisiveness we have seen, pitting individual against individual, gender against gender, picking economic troops against economic groups. we need to be working to bring this country together, to reach across the aisle, find those places. we have passed some of the most sweeping prison reform, judicial reform in america in texas. it was a democrat's idea. we created drug courts in 2001. texas is not known for being soft on crime.

we were putting kids in jail for long periods of time because of drug-related events. they broke the law, they did something bad, what don't ruin their lives forever. don't throw them in prison where they learn to become first rate criminals. give them some options. get those judges at some options. that is what we did. in the early part of the 21st century, we put those into place. giving those judges the flexibility to get shock probation, to give treatment rather than send them to prison. do you know what the result was? the result is we shut down three prisons in texas, saved $2 billion. that is real conservatism in my book. that is what we needed to be looking at in washington dc . . maybe it is medicare reform,

maybe it is our other entitlement reforms where we sit down and find like-minded democrats that know we have to deal with this. we used to do that. we saw tip o'neill working with ronald reagan. i'm looking for the next ronald reagan and tip o'neill to come forward and find a solution to challenge us in this country. and they are out there, you just have to have the will. i am abundantly optimistic. i shared with you that the best days of this country are in front of us. economically, foreign policy-wise, and it will require men and women to put aside their differences and find things that they can work together on. >> two last questions.

>> bob from massachusetts. i appreciate what you are saying relative to bipartisanship and working. over the weekend, a letter was sent by republican colleagues that was highly criticized by secretary kerry when he testified yesterday. my question is hypothetically, relative to the spirit of doing business in d.c. these days, if you were a u.s. senator, would you have signed on to that letter, and if not in the spirit of timonium and ronald reagan what would a better , approach have been to try to get the republican senators message across to the president? mr. perry: i am not a united states senator, but i signed that letter. because i happen to believe that there are some things that are too important not to find --

compromise on. allowing iran to get its hands on a nuclear weapon is non-negotiable in my opinion. i think the president is making an error. i think that is a really bad example of finding a place we can work together because there are places out there and things as so important that we cannot compromise our principles. allowing this country that still is the greatest supporter of terrorism in the world -- when you see iran funding hamas, both sunnis and shiites they're kind of equal opportunity funders. they both want to wipe israel off the face of the earth. i cannot accept that as a place where i will compromise. you work with fqhc's.

i know we are shifting gears but the point is, that is where we can find places to work together. we have expanded the health care delivery system and other private sectors ways deliver health care. giving that type of compromise that type of negotiation, i sit at the table and work with people from now on because those are places where democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives can indeed agree. i think it makes sense. i think it makes sense to quit building prisons. i think that is where liberals and conservatives can agree that those are some good things to work together on. we can find those and ways to prioritize our spending.

but to use what is going on in iran -- i happen to think those senators and senator cotton in particular could have clipped out of the united states constitution and send it to a iran. he said there is a number of ways we negotiate, we do treaties which require the united states senate to sign that we do an agreement. that is what this is with the president. this is an agreement between the president of the united states and the ayatollah.

i support the united states as a body. and certainly the next dozens of the united states will not be held accountable by this president in signing an agreement that i don't think it's in the u.s. is test interest and certainly not in isarael's best interest. >> [inaudible] how would you see education could to beating to the future -- contributing to the each of our nation? mr. perry: i'm pretty simple about k-12 as a potential candidate for the united states. i think that needs to be left to the states.

i think your governor, your legislature working with your school administrators, teachers, parents, a substantially better place for a curriculum to be developed than a one-size-fits-all out of washington. the department of education needs to be a repository of good practices. that might be a good final state for it. i don't think that washington needs to be this one-size-fits-all -- this place where health care, education reform, transportation and infrastructure these to come from. louis brandeis, not a well-known conservative, former member of the supreme court said that the states were laboratories of democracy. states need to experiment and try different ideas. from time to time, they will mess up. from my perspective, colorado is making an error in legalizing marijuana. it is exactly what louis

brandeis said. i don't agree with, it but i respect their right to find out they are making a mistake. [laughter] the same is true about education policy. people closer to the schools closer to your state, closer to understanding what the people of new hampshire are all about, you come up with the best curriculum. you find the ways to educate your children substantially better than this one-size-fits-all that too often comes out of washington dc. >> we hope you all will come back. mr. perry: i will be back. [applause] i will be back. take care of yourself. have some water there. steve, thank you sir. >> great to have you be here.

we look for to seeing again. mr. perry: i'll be back. >> your personality will play extremely well in this state. it really will. >>mr. perry: thank you. i want to come back and spend some time with the kids. from my perspective, -- let me find a -- is that lindsay? i will get over here by lindsay, she is my body. -- i'm a big lindsey graham a fan. i think he is one of the most knowledgeable people we have on foreign policy and we need to listen to him. he is a very bright united state senator. he has carved out his niche and it is foreign policy. >> we did a poll with bloomberg on foreign-policy issues and

mccain came up to me and said lindsey graham is on every single one of these issues. mr. perry: i agree. i talked to him tonight before last. picking his brain about what is going on in ukraine particular. this whole -- putin is a dangerous guy. this strategy of patience with him i don't think it is wise because the theory is with oil prices being in the tank and he has all of these economic problems and we will just outlast him and he will collapse -- you have to remember the 90's and how bad it got in russia. it is not anywhere near as bad as that now. he has $386 billion of reserves. all of this oil and gas money,

he put aside. people think about what was going on in the 90's and it is a lot better now. trying to wait him out is not a good strategy. i think you have to fund the lethal weapons to the ukrainian military. you take the swift banking ability away from him. there is a law where you can really go after the oligarchs and the thousand or so people that actually run russia and really squeeze them. we could flood europe with liquefied natural gas and that would really bring him to his knees. >> when i was in wisconsin, i worked with a congressman on my board and we were looking at income contingent student loan payments.

it is very simple. the u.k. is doing it, australia is doing it, and setting paying back student loans on a fixed time and they say, if you are an investment banker and a teacher, you pay back in a different timeframe with a fix on the amount of interest you will pay. mr. perry: i wonder if we can get the federal government out of the student loan business. >> that is the ultimate objective. mr. perry: give it back to the private sector. >> thank you, sir. ok. great. mr. perry: let me take off my c-span microphone and note to who to give it to. >> thanks sir. >> governor, it is good to see you again. mr. perry: akalan, thank you.

>> on friday, c-span's road to the white house coverage features rand paul and former florida governor jeb bush. at 1:00 p.m. eastern, senator paul speaks to students in maryland about overhauling the criminal justice system. the potential 2016 presidential candidate is a cosponsor of the redeemed act, aimed at keeping nonviolent offenders out of risen. -- out of prison. wrote the white house will be in new hampshire the home of fergus calling for a meeting brief with jeb bush. that is life on c-span. >> c-span, the senate finance committee examining tax scams.

then, john kerry talking about climate change and alternative energy sources. later, remarks by martin o'malley. >> on the next "washington journal" the role of congress in the iran nuclear negotiation. then the feminist majority foundation looks at the status of women in 2015 and was being done to improve life and opportunity. john cook talks about adversity to hillary clinton's personal e-mail account. plus, your phone calls comments, and tweets, live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> here are some of our featured programs for this weekend. saturday starting at 1:00, both

tv is live from the university of arizona at the tucson festival of books, featuring discussions on race and politics, the civil war, and collins throughout the day. sunday at 1:00, we continue live coverage on the festival with panels on the obama administration and the issue of concussions in football. saturday morning at 9:00, on american history tv, we are live from longwood university in farmville, virginia for the 16th annual civil war seminar where authors talk about the closing weeks of the civil war in 1855. sunday morning we continue our live coverage with remarks on the surrender of the can that a receipt and the integration of confederates to brazil. find our complete schedule at c-span.org. let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. call us, e-mail us, or

send us a tweet. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> according to federal investigators, state ars agents have targeted more than 66,000 people with phone calls demanding payments and have cheated filers out of about $15.5 million stop on thursday they examine some of the latest scams and fraudulent activities being used against taxpayers. this hearing is an hour and a half. >> welcome. the committee will come to order. the committee meets to talk about growing criminal activity that is threatening taxpayers across the country. these criminal acts are perpetrated by thieves hiding

behind telephone lines and computers, praying on honest taxpayers and robbing them of tens of billions of dollars a year. we are here to hear about federal and state officials on the fight to catch these crooks and protect taxpayers. first, i would you talk about one case in particular. one very large number, by the way. this is a hearing that is long overdue as far as i am concerned. on this committee, we often talk in terms of hundreds of millions, billions, or even trillions of dollars. some joke about a number being referred to as budget dust, even if that number has nine or 10 zeros behind it. let me tell you about a number that is stunning, $15,800.

that $15,800 saves hard work sacrifice, and honest living. that is saved for the down payment of a new house for a growing family. that is $15,800 in savings that has been wiped away by criminals who use fear, confusion, and intimidation as their weapons. this is a story of a family from taylorsville, utah. i would like to play a clip of a utah affiliate who tells their story. >> these crooks have gotten a lot more sophisticated and a lot more aggressive. this family learned that the hard way, one week ago. >> brenda and melissa dagen are excited for christmas but only have a few christmas presents under the tree. melissa got a phone call saying

she owed taxes from 2009 and was about to be arrested. melissa: i was like, what can i do to fix this? i can't be arrested. i have no one to watch my kids and they would not let me get off the phone. anchor: another scammer was calling her phone with the bogus caller id -- 911. melissa was convinced they were on the way and withdrew $15,800 which he used to pay prepaid cards and gave the code numbers to the thieves. that money was gone before she realized she had been victimized. melissa: i have not been able to stop crying. i cannot eat. i am sick to my stomach. embarrassed, just lost that all of this money we were trying to save for a down payment on a home -- because we need a bigger home to take care of three kids -- and my heart has been totally ripped open because of this. anchor: the story is too familiar to lieutenant doyle of

the unified police department which is investigating dozens of these cases. lieutenant: they are demanding people pay and get prepaid debit cards, and they are telling them they have outstanding warrants for the arrest. anchor: for the record, neither the irs or police collect payments over the phone. melissa wishes she had known that one week ago and has a message for the people who did this. alyssa: i forgive you, but it is sick and wrong and i do not have they can live with themselves. i do not know how they can make phone calls and hurt people. not any time of the year, but especially during christmas. anchor: melissa's cousin has started a go fund me page where they can recoup some of those losses. total strangers are giving whatever they can to melissa and brendan's fund to help the family recover. we have put a link to melissa

and brendan's go find me page on our website, goodforutah.com. >> that is one family out of millions of that have been targeted and thousands victimized. this is one scam. make no mistake, taxpayers across the country are facing identity theft in record numbers. once again, we have to stop this. taxpayers must be more aware of the risks and better protected from attack. these criminals must be found and brought to justice. we looked over to the testimony of eyewitnesses on today's panel. we will be hearing more about how to accomplish these goals. let me turn the time over to senator wyden. senator wyden: thank you chairman. i appreciate the chance to talk and work on these issues in a bipartisan way. since the days irs opened their doors, scam artists have been

hatching up slick new ways of stealing taxpayer dollars from the treasury. what is knew is that the ripoff artists are now stealing americans identities and personally threatening them on an industrial scale while directly robbing them of their hard earned money. the fraudsters constantly dreaming up new tactics, and then they milk them for all they are worth before they start getting caught. then it is lather, rinse, and reapeat. onto the next scam and always one step ahead of the law. today, the committee will examine several of the fraudsters' latest strategies that are plaguing taxpayers. the one that is hitting oregonians hardest is the fake phone call demanding money or personal information on behalf of the irs.

in fact, these calls were the number one consumer complaint registered with the oregon department of justice just last year. not everybody knows that the irs simply does not cold call individuals making demands or threats. it is pretty clear from my vantage point, there is a lot more work to be done to defeat this scourge. given the sophistication of this criminal activity, and the fact that a lot of it comes from overseas, this sure looks to me like an emerging type of organized crime. so the real question is, what is it going to take to root it out and get the bad actors on the sidelines? what is the role for more prosecutions, stronger deterrence, more cops on the beat? and what is the best way of getting the word out so

taxpayers are not tricked into surrendering their life savings to some intimidating voice on the other end of the phone line? even if our people managed to avoid the phone calls, you can bet that the crooks find other ways to profit. tax preparation software has become the scammer's new fast lane. they acquire data from the black market or hack into commercial databases, and then they filed false returns electronically. the victims might not find out until too late. there have been reports of this in 2015. we will hear some software vendors are not doing enough to prevent fraud. in my view, part of the challenge is getting the state's internet tax services and irs on the same wavelength.

they have to work together to make sure the criminals cannot just in a nimble fashion slide from one jurisdiction to the next, as they rip off more unsuspecting americans. so taxpayers may choose to avoid the software, but not even a paid tax preparer is guaranteed to be safe. in fact, many of them do not meet any standards for competence. there are far too many of these con artists out there who are willing and able to pray on the people who come through their doors. in some of the most offensive cases, they secretly falsify their victims returns to boost the refunds and then they pocket the difference. once the tax season ends, the crooks disappear from storefronts they occupy, and there is no trace on where they have gone. a few states like mine have rules in place to help shield taxpayers from this kind of the

ripoff. most states do not. senator cardin and i have introduced a taxpayer protection and prepare proficiency act at the beginning of this congress to give all americans the security they deserve. our colleague, senator nelson, is also a leader on this issue of keeping taxpayers save from identity that and fraud. all of us wish, as i indicated to chairman hatch, to work on this in a bipartisan way. the bottom line, there is no end to the ingenuity of the con artist, so my hope is that we will get some fresh ideas for catching up to this wave of fraud and stopping. obviously, it cannot come soon enough. we have a distinguished panel here today, especially pleased that the director of consumer outreach and education in the oregon attorneys general office

is here. thank you to all eyewitnesses. we look for to working with you on a bipartisan way. chairman: our first witness is attorney general caroline cirillo of the tax division of the u.s. department of justice. she was appointed attorney general of planning and policy of the tax division in january of this year. prior to that, she was chair of the tax and litigation group in baltimore. we welcome you to the committee and look forward to hearing your testimony. cirillo: thank you. members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear but are you to discuss the department of justice effort to combat identity that and tax refund fraud. the department greatly appreciate the commitment that the committee has brought to this very important issue. combating the theft of personal

information to file fraudulent tax refund claims is a problem across the country. your efforts to bring attention to this growing crime will help educate taxpayers about the importance of detecting and reporting identity theft and fraud. today's hearing also sends a strong message that the government is determined to identify and prosecute individuals behind these schemes and in doing so, will bring all its resources to bear. the department tax division, which i have the privilege of meeting as acting assistant attorney general, has one purpose. to enforce the nation's tax laws fully, fairly, and consistently through civil litigation and criminal prosecutions. our close working relationships with irs criminal investigation, tigda, the fbi, the u.s. postal service, and other federal state and local law enforcement continue to attend

the government possibility to respond quickly, efficiently and forcefully to changing patterns of criminal conduct. stolen identity, is an example of this type of challenge. in surf crimes, they filed a false refund claim and have the refunds of electronically deposited to a bank account or mailed to an address where the wrongdoer can access a check. sirf crimes involve multiple vendors who have large flames of information. sirf crimes hit vulnerable members of our society. these include, and are not limited to, the elderly, the hospitalized, students and members of our military deployed

overseas. while the irs will make good on any refund due to the taxpayer there are inevitable burdens and delays while the matter is addressed. the victims often experience a profound sense of violation. moreover, we are all victimized by loss in the u.s. treasury. to this end, the tax division expedites the review procedures in sirf cases. the authority to initiate tax related jury investigation and to charge those involved in complete without prior authorization. the collaborative efforts of the tax division and the law enforcement partners have strengthened the response to the crime. through december 31, 2014, they

prosecuted over 1400 individuals and courts are imposing substantial sentences. to further leverage from its investigation, in february, the assistant attorney general created a sirf advisory board. the board works to develop and implement a national strategy to ensure consistent and infected nationwide and prosecution of sirf crimes. for example, they conduct sessions for fraud analyst, they provide training and resources to prosecutors across the country. it works with u.s. attorney offices to develop local task forces. these initiatives enable prosecutors and law enforcement agencies to work together to identify schemes and to pursue the most culpable offenders. while providing the irs with real-time information that can be used to improve its filters and stopped the issuance of fraudulent refunds.

the prosecution of sirf crimes is a national priority, and together with our law enforcement partners, we will continue to look for the most effective ways to punish the offenders and bring this conduct to an end. thank you again for this opportunity to provide the department's perspective on this issue. i look forward to answering any questions. chairman: thank you so much. our next witness is timothy, the deputy inspector general at the treasury. camas has served at the inspection service for over 23 years. he has a long career of having successfully investigated cases of domestic terrorism, bribery and fraud. we certainly welcome you and we look forward to taking your testimony at this time. camas: thank you for the opportunity to testify on the topic of the tax schemes and

scams during the 2015 filing season. by raising public awareness about criminals efforts to swindle honest americans out of their money, we may provide the next person from becoming a victim, which is a very good thing. each year, the irs compiles what it sees as the dirty dozen tax scams on its website. many of these schemes take during the filing season as people repair returns or utilize the service of paid preparers. my statement today briefly outlines the top schemes and scams currently affecting taxpayers as they have proven to be surprisingly effective ways to steal money, in many cases before the victim realize they have been scammed. the first scams, the phone impersonation scam which landed on the top of the dirty dozen

list. it is the largest and most recent impersonation scam we are aware of. it has claimed thousands of victims. here's how it works. the intended victim receives an unsolicited phone call from a person claimed to be an irs agent. the caller uses a fake name and tells the victim a made up badge number. the callers may know the last four digits of the victim's social security number. they say that if they fail to pay, they could lose their drivers license, or be arrested. i received one of these calls at my home on a saturday. tigda has received many reports of these calls averaging between 9000 and 10,000 calls coming to my agency. as of march 9, two thousand 15 over 3000 individuals have been victimized by this by paying a

total of $15.5 million for an average of $5,000 per victim. the highest reported lost by one individual was a staggering $500,000. in one particularly sad story, a member of this committee forwarded a letter to us from a constituent whose close relatives suffered a tragic death after receiving harassing phone calls from this. we are reaching out to the media, irs, national trade commission, and providing testimony to this committee it helps to eliminate this type of abuse and to prevent vulnerable individuals from becoming victimized. anotehr scam involves the story the victim has won the lottery. this is a continuation of an old scam and starts with an e-mail or telephone call out of t