total of $15.5 million for an average of $5,000 per victim. the highest reported lost by one individual was a staggering $500,000. in one particularly sad story, a member of this committee forwarded a letter to us from a constituent whose close relatives suffered a tragic death after receiving harassing phone calls from this. we are reaching out to the media, irs, national trade commission, and providing testimony to this committee it helps to eliminate this type of abuse and to prevent vulnerable individuals from becoming victimized. anotehr scam involves the story the victim has won the lottery. this is a continuation of an old scam and starts with an e-mail or telephone call out of the

blue, declaring that the victim has want a lottery. in order to declare the winnings, they must first pay the tax to the irs. the lottery scam often, but not always, originates from outside of the united states. in the end, the victims pay the money, but they never received any lottery winnings. just as serious as these scams the risk of taxpayer refund identity theft. the irs has made improvements in identification of identity theft returns before fraudulent tax refunds are released. continued attention is needed to effectively combat this crime. for example, the irs still does not have timely access to third-party income and withholding information. most of the third-party information is not received by the irs until well after the taxpayers begin filing returns. the deadline for most information returns with irs is march 31.

yet, taxpayers begin filing returns, this year, on january 20. this gap in time prevents the irs from conducting validity checks. legislation would be needed to accelerate the filing of the information returns. the irs has taken steps to effectively prevent the filing of identity theft tax returns by locking the tax accounts of deceased individuals to prevent others from filing returns using the departed's name social security number. for 2014, the irs rejected over 338,008 file returns and stopped paper returns through the use of these locks. just 11 days after the filing season began, the irs reported that it had prevented the issuance of more than $2 million in fraudulent refund -- refunds as a result of filters. other schemes, such as prisoner

fraud, tax preparers, and phishing scams, are discussed in depth in my written testimony. much work is being done on multiple fronts to address real activities. we hope this work will reduce or eliminate their impact on taxpayers. chairman hatch, ranking member whited, thank you for the opportunity to share my views. i look forward to questions. chairman: thank you so much. i will turn briefly to introduce our next one. >> thank you very much. thank you to the leadership of mike pence and our department of revenue. they developed a plan that stopped $88 million in attempted identity theft in the last filing season. this involves 78,000 fraudulent returns in 12% of all the refund dollars that were requested. the cost to that, as mr. aly will explain, he cost the state $8 million.

the return of the investment was $88 million. compared with some of the things we do around here, which is usually the opposite, spend 88 and got eight back. we are currently bringing the needed changes to our state. the commissioner brings a wealth of private commissioner experience and has worked for decades in the banking industry. he is a cpa, he has started businesses, so he understands firsthand how important customer service is for the department of revenue. chairman, i thank you for inviting him to testify and look forward to his testimony. chairman: thank you for inviting me to discuss this important topic with you today. on behalf of governor pence and

the citizens of indiana, it is our honor to be here and share our story. i would like to share the points with you today. first, the nature of the problem and overall breadth. steps indiana has taken, recommendations to fully and effectively address this epidemic problem. tax refund fraud is one of the most lucrative platforms for criminals to monetize the volume of stolen identity information. the advent of electronic filing and processing, that has only enhance the ability for us to file large volumes of fraudulent returns at nominal cost. as the senator indicated, in 2014, 12% of the total refund dollars that were requested from indiana were thought to be fraudulent. fortunately, we were able to stop them. it represented 78,000 fraudulent returns that we stopped that contained manufactured or stolen ids. again, we saved the state $88 million in the process. it is still early in the 2015

filing season. we are already seeing a dramatic increase in the use of valid ids, which have been stolen. with the increase of the reporting successful hacks across the united states of u.s. companies, we believe the availability of valid stolen ids has never been greater. the fraudsters have clearly popped -- upped their game and we must do the same. in 2012, we realized we were suffering losses from refund fraud. accordingly, we worked with governor pence and his team to effectively identify a program that we could begin building. we knew that we needed to take significant, systemic modifications and we needed to do it before the next filing season.

our staff reached out to states through the federation of tax administrators and also our partners at the irs, to see if there were some ideas we could borrow and implement rapidly. the response was very supportive and we noted partial solutions and fragmented efforts across the group. with strong support from governor pence, we initiated a program to screen all returns for suspicious identities. this program used lexis-nexis, a third-party, to screen returns and note identity theft information such as name address, social security information, and other identifiers. we would tell the ones that proved to be suspicious and sent a confirmation letter to have them confirm identities. again, this had a dramatic impact in our ability to recognize fraudulent identities and stop those refunds. the identity confirmation quiz is only part of a larger process. it became very clear in the beginning that the department would need to make some systemic changes by making significant investment in both staff technology, and further, we needed to change our approach to how we deal with fraud. for the 2015 filing season, we have implemented new pre-filter platforms that include

decision-makers that will allow us to better identify those valid ids. we have also defined great expectations from our certified software vendors as to the information they will provide to us and the level of fraud they send our way. we are still battling this problem, but a few key lessons have been learned. first, it must be a strategic priority. identity theft and refund fraud is here to stay away to address it. it requires leadership, staff, technology, and third-party resources. second, collaboration. no one has all the answers and we cannot solve this problem by ourselves. sharing data, best practices experiences, among all the revenue agencies across the states as well as the federal and software vendors, is going to be important. having access and ability to communicate on a timely basis is critical. we have got to develop targeted solutions. fraudsters will continue to

change approaches and we have got to stay ahead. finally, note that prepaid debit cards is an issue that needs to be addressed. it is a preferred tool of fraudsters in receiving refunds. we found that over 50% of those returns with prepaid of the cards are fraudulent. in terms of some recommendations on things we can do, we consider that the solution really encompasses a three legged stool. each has unique data perspectives, and capabilities that the system requires in order to make better decisions. the irs is in a great position to help us manage highly sophisticated fraud. states must work together. finally, software vendors also have the information and can be helpful in providing and sharing their intelligence. in conclusion, i just want to summarize that the problem is here to stay and we got to address it. secondly, collaboration and sharing of information among the irs and state, reducing some

barriers. anonymous aggregate information is critical. third, we have to make investments. we made an investment that yielded a 10 times return. i am confident that providing continuing investment is the only way to get out ahead of this and beat it. on behalf of the citizens of indiana, thank you for allowing us to share our story. thank you for allowing us to be here. >> thank you, we appreciate you making an effort to be here. our next witness is john valentine with the united states tax commission. he was a member of the state senate where he served with distinction until 1988 until his commission as the tax commission chair in 2014.

before that he was in the utah house of representatives and was an attorney in private practice. chairman valentine, we are grateful you have taken time out of your schedule to be with us today. and for joining the hearing this morning. >> thank you chairman hatch. and member wyden, thank you very much. i'm here to discuss ways to reduce the tax frauds that we are seeing develop. there are issues you need to consider. first, strength and information sharing between the irs and states. second, stricter regulation of the financial prepaid debit cards. three, regulate the practice of applying refunds to payment of fees for filing services. a practice in the industry called refund transfers. four, a third-party funding services tightening front

insecurity using multifactor authentication and other measures to secure data from unauthorized disclosure and identity theft. prior to the commencement of the 2015 filing season, utah installed a state of the art software system to identify fraudulent returns. on january 20, tax commission open filing of tax returns deployed the system. as we processed returns, the system started sending out error notices saying these were fraudulent. we followed up with verification letters of the suspicious returns to the taxpayers. within 10 days of opening the filing season we received calls from taxpayers saying we have not filed returns yet. we initially thought these were isolated incidences, but it was clear they were not. we found several factors that were common in all of the calls.

one, the returns had direct deposit information from previous years bank accounts to a debit card. the returns contained routing numbers that were different from the federal and state returns. most of the returns appear to have the exact 2013 return data populated in the 2014 return. the next issue that was common with the address on the returns that was the same as the address on the 2013, even when there were errors in the address. finally, since most were made through one vendor, it appears something in their process was compromised. after communicating with that vendor, and notifying other states, we talked with the internal revenue service saying we think there may be a

compromise of the modernized electronic finance system. the accounts in question that we identified were sent to the service center. 31 returns in the first week were confirmed suspicious. we asked in a phone conversation to confirm on their side, we are waiting to hear from them. many have asked what actions were undertaken when we discovered the attack. we hurried. we stopped refunds until we could get our arms around it. during the first week we found 5 fraud schemes. four we had seen before. the institutions and preparers. one was new. someone had actual tax returns. not identity thefts, but tax returns from prior years. as we continue to prevent the outflow of fraudulent refunds,

we found difficulty determining the nature of the financial institution and account information. specifically, we found there was no uniformity in numbering to determine traditional debit cards from traditional bank accounts. we could not tell whether we were refunding to a prepaid debit card or funding to a legitimate bank account. there is an easy fix. it is to require the financial industries to have identifier numbers in the routing number or account number identifying this as a prepaid debit card. we do that with checking and savings accounts already, not with prepaid debit cards. in the investigation we found a practice perpetrating fraud without anything at risk to the refund transfer. the fraudster deducts the third-party funds from the refund. the third party gets paid, the

fraudster gets the cash, the state is out the money. third-party finance services lack front end security measures. quality firewalls need to be installed by third-party vendors. both for the irs and state tax commissions. thank you chairman and ranking member wyden. >> finally, i welcome ellen clem. she serves as a director of consumer education and outreach at the attorney general's office working to protect oregon residents from financial scams including the scams and schemes we are working on today. we welcome you here and look forward to taking your testimony. >> thank you senator hatch and ranking member wyden.

every day i hear stories from oregon residents about a wide variety of frauds and scams. these stories have focused exclusively on the irs in mpostor scam. that is because as senator wyden mentioned, in 2014 this scam topped oregon's list of consumer complaints. last year we received more than 1300, twice the number as the next highest category. what is worse, the victims reported losses more than $75,000. we know from testimony presented today that is the tip of the iceberg. that is why i hear today to tell you the story of two victims and to talk about what the oregon attorney general is doing to prevent this from happening to others. the first story is of a woman i will refer to as diane. in august she lost $15,000 to an irs imposter scam.

this is the largest individual loss reported to the oregon department of justice in 24 2014. like many victims she had a message on her answering machine from a man claiming to be from the irs directing her to call him back at a 202 area code. the person who answered let her an affidavit for her arrest, threatened her with a $25,000 fine, and 18 months in prison, and told her she would be arrested later that day. diane was terrified. the scammer said he could settle the matter for $15,000 on prepaid money cards. diane made the only choice she thought she had. she confide with the request and was out $15,000. individuals like diane, who send money to the scammers, i'm not the only victims.

in september of 2014 marissa phillips contacted me. her employee, linda, was victim to an imposter scam. after sending a small amount of money, linda realized she had been had and did not pick up the phone. when it was clear they would not get a hold of linda, they called marissa's small business that provides in-home care services for seniors and those with disabilities. they called at a rate of 100 phone calls per minute for 20 minutes. the calls prevented her from providing help to those who needed it. the seniors, their families, hospitals, and staff. marissa was forced to change her

phone number, and all of the marketing materials. thankfully, not everyone in oregon who receives a phone call from an irs imposter becomes a victim. i would like to think that is because we are working hard to educate oregon residents. the oregon attorney general has several educational tools aimed at scam prevention, because she and i know that well-informed oregon residents are more likely to recognize broad and less likely to become victims if they are educated. we know the scams can be hard to track and prosecute. the oregon attorney general has invested in strong partnerships with federal, state, government entities, community organizations, advocacy groups and members of the media.

through these partnerships we share complaints, coordinate investigations, and disseminate investigation to the public. our partners give us a stronger voice to share information and keep oregon residents like diane, linda, and marissa safe. thank you chairman hatch and senator wyden for the opportunity to share the stories. >> we want to thank you and the witnesses. i think a lot of people will be surprised at how this is growing. let me turn to you commissioner valentine. i want to thank you for coming back here to testify in the midst of filing season. i applaud the innovative approaches you are taking, you and other state commissioners like you and commissioner ally are taking. in your testimony you said you would like to strengthen information sharing between the irs and the states. i would appreciate it if you could elaborate to explain what

information would be useful, and what information you could provide the irs that would be of use to them. if you have suggestions about how the finance committee could facilitate that, i would also like to have your information on that. >> as a background, we have a great working relationship with the irs, especially the ones we deal with. we share information. the trouble is it is not being shared in real time. the information is very delayed. sometimes, we are not doing getting information we could use to look at the returns as they are coming. one thing that the finance committee may consider is the idea of moving up the filing deadline for the w-2s for employers. as senator wyden indicated, we

have a problem. as w-2s go out to the individuals on the 31st, we have a gap. employers do not have to have them out until march 31. there is pressure as is the federal government to make the refunds. yet, we cannot give them the refunds without knowing for certain that the right person is getting the refund. that gap is a big problem. that would help a lot. another is for the senate and house to encourage the irs to have a more formalized sharing of information. i gave you the example of the 31 returns six weeks ago. they should have a quick response. we have identified them as fraudulent, confirmed that they had not been filed by the taxpayers, yet we do not hear back in real time. those are things that could

really help. >> thank you very much. let me ask you this. i want to thank you and the inspector general for all of your efforts to catch the criminals and to educate the public about these scams. in my opening statement i showed a video about a family. the same criminals are targeting other americans. is your office doing everything in their power to track them down and stop them? can i have that commitment? >> you more than have that commitment. those who work at the tax administration are working day and night, and partnering with other law enforcement agencies as well. it hurts us when these victims are victimized as described. we instruct our agents when you hear from a victim who has lost money, we spend time with them

and hear their story, and attempt to get as much information as possible. we have an aggressive ongoing investigation at this time. i hope we can describe the success of that investigation in the near future. >> a scam that worries me is the stolen identity refund fraud it was calculated the irs paid $5.8 billion in fraudulent refunds to identified theives in 2013. you have suggestions on how the irs can detect this type of fraud earlier and a stop

fraudulent payments from going out the door? >> as was noted by the opening statements of the witnesses and committee members, one of the challenges is the criminals are watching the internal revenue service. they know one point $3.1 trillion goes through the irs, refunds. as they irs continues to advance filters in response to the approaches, the criminals change because it is such a lucrative environment. our audit staff is looking at the filters and recommending additional and approved filters. we have seen improvement in some, but it continues to be a major challenge to keep up with a criminal enterprise. >> this has been a suburb panel. thank you for the wonderful work you are doing in our state particularly for older people. i am really glad you're out

there on that beat. very important. let me ask you about the question of the foreign government. it looks as though, and you mentioned in your testimony, and it is clear that the phone scams are originating overseas. it looks to me like this is essentially an emerging form of organized crime. you are conducting an investigation, and i realize there are things you cannot say, but let's talk about the things we should look at from a policy standpoint. the question of whether we should initiate efforts in terms of work with foreign governments. and what they can do to assist us. the second, what is the rule for local law enforcement? you can go after the money runners who collect the payments, in other words the ripoff artists overseas, they

need money runners to collect payments. let's start with those and other opportunities. i know we have strike forces for medicaid. tell us about, and nothing will compromise your investigation, but tell us about what we can look at those give you more tools to fight the ripoff artists that have done so much damage from overseas. >> thank you for the opportunity. the challenge is getting our hands on these people. the relationship with various foreign governments can create issues. the problem that we are seeing is that because there has been money paid, we are seeing spinoffs of this crime. although we are focused and think we know where it

originated to start, we are seeing indications that other criminals have ripped off the original idea, and are launching these types of attacks. it continues to be a challenge but i think we are onto something. it would be something we could use help on down the road, in terms of getting our hands on a foreign national and bringing them to justice in the united states for a white-collar crime. senator wyden: can you give us an example of those problems? camus: the integrity of the financial system is suffering these types of scams. that is why my agency takes these so seriously. there are those out there that do not feel bad for the united states and are not interested in helping us bring these types of

criminals to justice. wyden: let's move onto the anthem case. this shows the industrial scale of these ripoffs. 80 million people. cyber identity theft. they are one of the biggest health insurers in the company -- in the country, and have indicated 80 million americans may have been hacked. opening the door for fraudulent health claims and criminal enterprises that we are talking about today with identity theft, including tax fraud. a question i raised with the inspector general in the past. it appears to me that blocking this type of tax fraud, is increasingly falling on the shoulders of tax collectors, both in the irs and the state.

i am interested in the panel's recommendations on what else we need to do to give you the tools to fight identity theft from cyber attacks. any of you that would like to get into it. i saw the state officials nodding their heads. let's hear from indiana to keep things in the center. i like to get to the center before the far right and far left. alley: thank you, senator wyden. we are seeing the impact of that. many of the steps they are taking, corporations across the country are taking, are doing more multifaceted authentication. i think many companies have not invested adequately to prepare

for that and allow themselves to be vulnerable. that is one thing that corporate america, and all of us in the government level need to focus on. in terms of what we can do as a group, it goes back to the three legged stool. we get a lot of information that we share with each other, but it is not on a timely basis. i would like to see the irs to take a greater role in driving the standards and expectations. we have 50 states. many have taxing mechanisms. they're all doing disparate things. if we could have the irs help to bring everyone together to establish a coordinated collaborative set of standards and expectations from software vendors, financial institutions, i think that could be a great

deal in bringing everyone together on the same platform. senator wyden: that sounds too logical. we will have to pursue it. >> thank you for holding this hearing, and thank you for the panelists for being here and testifying. i think every taxpayer should feel confident knowing their information is secure when they file with the irs, and there will not be a false return fraudulently filed in their name. i think we have seen the impact that identity theft could have on a family's well-being. and hopefully we are able to move legislation forward in congress. one measure for preventing identity theft has been recommended by number of commentators. that the irs identify information from a third party

like the social security administration. i'm wondering, what are your thoughts on how much fraud that would prevent, and are there potential downsides? mr. camu? camus: generally speaking, as mr. valentine pointed out, the fact the irs does not have a w-2 and its automated system to match at the same time the taxpayer files their return, that inhibits their ability to do a simple validity check before issuing a refund. there's a great expectation to get the refunds as soon as possible. anything we can do to increase the timeliness, or two get the time the taxpayer can file the return, this year it was january 20, to jive with the time the

administration has the information that is not due until march 31, that will help. senator thune: any downsides? camus: there are three points that can affect the fraud issues. one on the front end. the authentication issues. the next on the discovery phase. the transfer of information back and forth between the different tax agencies. the third is the method that you pay. that is why my comments try to affect all three. any of those are helpful. in all three areas, you have a better chance of cutting down on fraud. >> it has been a number of years since congress enacted a taxpayer's bill of rights.

when a taxpayer has a fraudulent return filed in his name, is the recourse with the irs sufficient? camus: our audit staff looks at that. what they can do to help the victim. we continue to look at that and recommend changes or improvements in the program. senator thune: are there additional measures to get them the assistance they need? camus: it is traumatic for the victim. any time identity is compromised they are very upset. i'm not going to comment on where we are at, but from our auditors i understand there has been an improvement, and they work to make that experience better for the victim.

>> we have a focus on that issue. a way to process quickly without having to go through the bureaucracy. we have done that with our services division in a letter that we sent out to authenticate that the person who's calling is the right person. that type of thing may be something service could consider, as well, as a way to expedite a particular complaint of identity theft. senator thune: the recent hack there worries and breaches on turbotax that made national news. other electronic providers of tax service haven't. how preventable is this? >> i am not so sure that others have been impacted.

we have realized and identified the breaches that occurred with the one vendor. taken additional steps to try to mitigate. but i think we are finding that it is not just them that have been impacted by this but the fraudsters move with great agility. as they impact one and half success and those doors close they readily moved to another open door. i think it is a systemic issue and really brought across the entire industry, not limited to any particular vendor or party. and it are warner thank you -- senator worn: thank you, mr. chairman. one of the things that we could do, we have some legislation on

this -- the irs currently interprets the law saying that they don't believe that, if they find out that you have been the victim of identity fraud they don't even tell you as a citizen that you are a victim of that fraud. so the notion, whether i believe they can do it administratively, we have written them. perhaps you writing them might shake them up a little bit more, but if we cannot get them administratively one step to make sure the irs is a partner in this identification when it comes to their attention that someone has been a victim of identity for them that we notify them and law enforcement. i think we see some nods from the panel. again, the numbers are huge as

you pointed out in your testimony. a second item i think we ought to consider, this is something i have an working on the inking committee. some level of mandatory data breach reporting. it is a very gray and developing area particularly on the retail side, we have seen countless indications of data breach. but there is no obligation or standards about when a company needs to report this information and i think there needs to be such a standard. one of the things we have urged from the banking committee side is that, you know, this is an area where there is a lot of finger-pointing between the retail sector and the financial sector and rather than creating

another interchange battle trying to have the financial sector and the retail sector were actually collaborate better again, i am going to get to a question here. it would seem to me as well -- and one thing that i would like the panel's comments on, is there not a way, either through the irs or in collaboration with the private providers, the turbotax -- i agree with the panels comments that this is not just a turbotax problem. we need the private sector who has a very vibrant business as well, why haven't we created a single easy-to-use portal so that, when mrs. smith or the lady who was in the story in utah, there is a single place where you can at least check

whether this is a real claim or not. do you all want to speak to that notion of how we do a better job in consumer education, why we haven't had the irs more act it in collaboration with the state tax apartments and others an easy to find fight and what would be the responsibility as well of the private sector providers, the turbotax is and others to collaborate with that one single portal question -- one single portal? . chair valentine: we actually tell them. we don't have the impediments that the irs has in that regard. we have an easy system now for

taxpayers to check whether they have received their return or not. we sent out authentication issues. you can determine whether your return has been filed. we have been doing a public service announcement saying police to check -- please check to see if your return has been filed. senator warner: wouldn't it be better to have some education process here since the fraud is taking place at the federal level rather than at the state level? chair valentine: i agree as well. senator warner: i would simply say that, when we are looking at 5.8 million dollars in fraud the washington post says this

year we have seen a 37 fold, 30 teva -- 37 times increase in raw jalandhar claims -- in fraudulent claims. on behalf of senator grassley, the treasury inspector general for tax administration has detailed how irs needs to do more to reduce improper payments for the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. for 2013, 2 $.5 billion in proper payments were made and

between $5.9 billion and $7.1 billion for the child tax credit. both of these credits pay tax benefits, making them a prime target for looking to engage in tax friends -- tax fraud. the rules governing how these -- the rules governing both these credits are complex, opening them to innocent human error. in your opening, what amount of improper payments would you attribute to fraud and to innocent error? inspector general camus: it is clear that the fraudsters look for any opportunity to get at that money and they are rooms loose in their attempts. the fact that they use credits readily available to folks using

tax returns -- i do not have that information but i will meet with my staff and try to get a response to senator grassley. senator hatch: i would like that information as well. senator isakson: my wife said you need to listen to the voicemail i kept this week. it is the phone call you are talking about. it was to call a 202 number or they file suit next week. being a member of this committee, i realize that probably wasn't true. the next morning, i was doing a free file event . he told me this can't. because we do not make any solicitation by telephone.

and i thought to myself, i should know that, but the american public ought to know that as well. it would seem like that there would be more ombudsman ship. enforcement are all done by mail. it was a very convincing phone call. ms. klem: yes, that is why they are so successful. . we do share information like this in photographic in front of me right now. happy to share it with the committee, about the irs and posture scams. it says "warning signs, how will the irs contact you? by phone? no. by mail?

no. by e-mail? no. by mail? yes." senator isakson: we have a department created by the administration called the consumer financial protection bureau which is in the business of protecting their rose. -- protecting consumers. they try to help people who are victims of business fraud and they should protect them of tax fraud as well. i think that is something that the irs can do as well. the irs has been putting out youtube. i will take any television

interview put in front of me. not because i am a him because i believe in my heart, if we protect one taxpayer from having these horrific stories, that is a good day for us. i am so happy about this hearing because this will also help get the word out. when you get those calls, please hang up the telephone. we are really try to work with that viewer. senator ericson: i hope that mr. cartwright will be as aggressive on tax fraud as with other things. i noticed in your testimony that a member of the medical team at fort benning had stolen the identification of a number of soldiers and tax fraud was perpetrated against them. did you coordinate with the department of defense, that they need to watch out? ms. -- ms. ciraolo: thank you for

that question. i joined the department two months ago so i was not involved in those types of discussions. i don't have that information with me today, but i can certainly report back on what efforts were made by the department of defense. we certainly take seriously any allegations and efforts by offenders to commit these offenses. we are particularly focused on the victims of our society including our military members. mr. irix -- senator isakson: each of the state directors made a comment about information sharing. that would be a key to stopping this. one of the problems that existed , the senate and house has not done a cyber security bill. the pending bill we hope will be

before us soon, there are provisions for idea sharing and to the antitrust law. i would hope we will get -- we are part of the problem. our cyber laws are way out of date with our cyber criminals. the quicker we encompass act on that legislation, the more taxpayers will be safe from fraud. that is my editorial comment. chairman hatch: thank you. i am looking at a small sampling of headlines. the name of the dust the title of the news article about which the reporting is called "irs

fraud scams ramp-up in eerie." then over by the eastern border of our state "irs scam widespread in pennsylvania." and then "irs phone scam reaching more in northwest pennsylvania." a lot of what you heard and had direct expense with trying to stop. i guess i would start with the attorney generals, a particular question about your assessment of where we are in light of what i have seen. i was in berks county, in eastern side of our say -- our state. walking through some of the basic challenges from the prosecutorial standpoint, he emphasized, among other things that the perpetrators were first

highly organized number two organized in jurisdictions far away from the victims, and also beyond the reach of local authorities. he also pointed to perpetrators residing in foreign countries. so that is one of -- that is among the many challenges them much of your testimony's pony -- pointed to. i don't want to be pessimistic because i do want to get to part of your testimony where you talk about what has been happening with the justice department and some of the success you have had , but there is a sense, because of the scope and gravity of the problem that we are not winning. just from a national perspective, i want to ask you how would you assess the war or the battle. mrs. ciraolo. we prosecute the offenders and

we hope to change the calculus with substantial censuses that we -- substantial sentences we are receiving. in addition, we share information we obtain from these cases in real-time with the irs. is working very hard to improve better identify fraudulent returns and prevent the issuance of fraudulent refunds. so that is the tax division's role. these cases certainly present unique challenges and we will continue to devote our available resources in this area. senator casey: i know much of what you might say in a short answer and it is already admitted in your testimony but if you had to itemize one or two or three action items we could work on, resources or other tools that you need to do your job and i am sure others who may

not be in the federal government but play a role in this, what do you hope we would do by way of authority or authorization or by way of appropriation? ms. ciraolo: taking information back to your home states and make sure that the information is out there as often and as loud as hostile. many of these scams can be stopped if the american public is educated and having a centralized location for that information is a wonderful idea. i am very happy to see the representatives here on the panel from across the country. senator casey: maybe i would ask the remaining witnesses -- what should congress do?

inspector general camus: it is so simple. when the money dries up, the criminals will go away. by getting our hands on them and bringing them to justice in a historic way -- it's one of the things it we want to do because we want people to pay for this. but it is not the solution to the crime. it is people hanging up the phone and not being victimized. commissioner ally: the criminals will continue to be very agile. senator casey: commissioner thank you. you still have to be able to cut off the vector of the money. it is something the congress can require the financial industry to do.

we know that this is going to be a prepaid debit card. we won't refund it that way. >> i travel the state every day and speak to mostly older adults about this fraud and it is devastating to hear their stories. frequently come after they have shared them with me, they say, gosh, i wish i had talked to you last week. if we can get more awareness more education more media spotlight, that would be great. senator cantwell: i would like to join my colleagues who have been bringing up these issues about identity afghan fraud, but specifically to point out that the 111th congress increased the irs's responsibility while decreasing the funding. so the irs is not responsible for employment -- and lamenting the --

lawmakers will have the -- the irs is being urged to combat identity theft, reduce errors in tax programs, and generally reduced tax fraud. i think we need to take this into consideration as it relates to the budget this year and make sure the resources are there to do this. i am concerned the taxpayers will ultimately -- we need to get a handle on what has been happening with identity theft. it was found that 22 per at that -- 22% of the identity theft cases, the irs closed without taking the appropriate steps to fully resolve the victims' account. so during fy 2014, nearly 270,000 identity that returns of this type were closed. so if that reported rate them a

22% of that group about 60,000 taxpayers were burdened by having our case is closed in a premature fashion. what do we need to do to fix that. inspector general camus: that is a job that would fit in our portfolio. one of the things i always look at is the victim interface and how the irs are -- how the irs is processing the claims and the correspondence. i know the auditors are doing work in that area as we speak. senator cantwell: will we have this resolved for this season? inspector general camus: unfortunately, it is always in hindsight. the audit team looks at the work that was done. they need to make sure that the cases are closed before they can look at can see how they were handled. i will share the sentiment.

senator cantwell: anybody else have any thoughts about this? we need to do something better than to have these taxpayers affected this way. mr. valentine: i agree. we work with taxpayers who have had their identities compromised and to make sure there return has been properly reflected in their account and is properly accounted for. we need to do the same thing at all levels. senator cantwell: every committee has been out to address the ideas of cyber security and to move forward. i think our committee should look at this particular aspect making sure that our tax filers are also secure as well. so thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. senator wyden: i did not want to

wrap up without giving a chance to talk about seniors. i think we know how outrageous it is that seniors get ripped off this way. we've got millions of older people in this country who are walking an economic tight walk every single day. their fuel building and housing costs. they get ripped off this way and it is not some ash action. they really suffer. as we wrap up -- i just wanted to finish with this. what do you think this committee can do to beef up the fight to protect seniors from these kind of ripoffs? ms. klem: that is a great question. it is true that this imposter scanned disproportionally affects vulnerable adults, especially older adults who are home during the day. they answer their phone and that is because they grew up in a time where they were taught that

it is rude not to answer the phone and listened to the caller on the other end. i think some of the suggestions we have heard today are wonderful but i am going to keep beating the drum of education and awareness. i think that is really key. if we can let people know that this is a notoriously awful scam and they should be alert to it and it's not rude to hang up the phone in this particular case. i think it is a wonderful educational tool for people, especially older adults. it is very tough. i talked to them everyday. it's going to be a struggle, but i think the more information and awareness we can get out there the better. i always tell people who come to my presentations or call me on the phone to share their stories with one or two other people because i think that personal story, that personal touch from somebody who may be not that phone call and almost fell victim or did fell victim let others know that it's important.

senator menendez: thank you to all of our witnesses. thank you for your testimony. as many of you noted, the density -- the identity theft and tax schemes are the growing crimes in the united states. not only the victims who are disproportionately low income and vulnerable populations lose millions of dollars to the schemes, each year are subject to months if not years of overwhelming paperwork, credit problems, and inconvenience. one constituent of mine who i will just refer to as sandra, experienced this nightmare firsthand. she contacted my office in march 2013 to request help to restore her identity which had been stolen in 2010. she didn't receive her tax refunds for 2010, 2011, 2012 and was getting nowhere with the irs in fixing this situation.

finally, after an additional two years of working with her, the irs and the taxpayer advocates office who were finally able to resolve this situation earlier this year. mr. camusso -- mr. came us -- mr. camus is the irs doing enough to resolve cases of identity theft in a timely manner? the -- is the four to five year waiting period that sander experienced reasonable in your view? inspector general camus: no. in the audit work i have read done by my agency, the irs has made great strides try to be better and faster and more responsive to the victims. one of the things they put in place is an identity theft victim 10.

in future years, when the taxpayer files, they use that number and that helps validate their identity. i understand they are not always 100% on that either. but my observation from reading the audit reports from my staff is that they are making great strides and they are endeavoring to improve. senator menendez: what would you say is the status after someone finding themselves in that situation? what would you reasonably expect the time that the issue would be resolved? inspector general camus: i would expect it to be better than 2010, 2011 and 2012 . senator menendez: better is a relative question. what is the average? a year? inspector general camus: i wish i had that information available but i do not. senator menendez: i would like to get it from the irs at the end of the day.

in responding to a question i raised, he said "the irs is very concerned about unscrupulous tax providers -- tax preparers. i know the irs tried to regulate paid taxpayers a few years ago and was rebuffed by the d.c. circuit court of appeals which argued congress does not exquisitely authorize that kind of legislation. i find it extremely strange and inappropriate that many states require hair barbers to have a license but someone providing -- but someone preparing a book at returns do not need a license. inspector general camus: i think it is critically important that anybody who do such an important job in such an important area tax administration, that there

is training available and held accountable and arson and that need to be kept. we work closely with our partners in irs criminal investigation and the department of justice tax division. when we come across an unscrupulous tax preparer, to bring them to justice. it is important for elderly folks and others who trust folks, that they do not become victimized by the very people they trust. senator menendez: can you or miss ciraolo quantify for me in anyway how much fraud is related to unscrupulous tax preparers? miss ciraolo: we share your concerns and believe taxpayers should be able to trust that person to be competent and

qualified to prepare the returns and to prepare an honest and accurate return. in the last year alone, the tax division has obtained injunctions against more than 40 fraudulent preparers and promoters and will continue to prosecute those individuals who willfully assist in repairing the return. senator menendez: so you have no idea how many tax preparers there are? miss ciraolo: i do not have that information front of me. senator menendez: 40 sounds like a small number control -- compared to the universe of preparers out there. is that based on complaints or is that based on the services's on investigation? ms. ciraolo: based on the

evidence we receive, we followed that evidence where it leads for injunctions against preparers. senator menendez: do you have a number of complaints filed with you? ms. ciraolo: since 2000, we have filed 500 and junctions. senator hatch: i want to thank all the witnesses and the senators who participated. i think this has been a very good hearing and hopefully we can move on from here. any questions for the record should be submitted no later than wednesday, march 19. so this hearing will be adjourned at this point. thanks so much. and thanks to all of you. we really appreciate it.

: >> on the next "washington we discuss the role of congress in the iran nuclear

negotiations. then eleanor smeal looks at the status of women. then john cook talks about efforts being made to obtain access to hillary clinton's personal e-mail account. plus your phone calls, facebook comments and tweets all on "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. labor secretary thomas perez is one of the speakers today at the consumer federation of america conference looking at consumer concerns about the internet and future of consumer driven investigation journalism. it will be 8:30 eastern. ashton carter visits fort meade, maryland discussing cybersecurity

cybersecurity. >> here are some featured programs this weekend. saturday 1:00 p.m. book tv is live from the university of arizona for the tuscon festival of books featuring discussions on race and politics, civil war and nation magazine writers with call-ins with authorses. sunday 1:00 we continue with panels on the obama administration, future of politics and issue of concussions in football. saturday morning at 9:00 eastern on american history tv on c-span 3 we are live from farmville, virginia for the civil war seminar where they talk about the closing weeks of the civil war in 1865. sunday morning 9:00 we continue coverage with the surrender of the con ted racy -- confederacy. it is at c-span.org and let us

know what you think about the programs you are watching. call us, e-mail us, or send us a tweet. join the c-span conversation like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> the top u.s. general in south america john kelly briefed reporters at the pentagon thursday about the 100 caribbean citizens who joined the islamic extremists in syria. here is a look. >> you made a comment earlier today about people have gone from caribbean to syria. can you give us a little bit more depth on where they are coming from, what you think they are doing and how did you see any indication any of them tried to come back? how big a problem is this? >> like in our own country there is some small number reportedly

that srhave radicalized here in the united states, much larger numbers from western europe gone to the fight in syria. i suspect they will get good at killing and pick up some real job skills in terms of explosives and beheadings and things like that and everybody is concerned if they come home because if they went over radicalized one would expect they will come back at least that radicalized but with really good job skills they picked up in the fate. do we have think indication right now of any scheme to attack the united states? no. we take for granted in the united states that we have a functioning legal justice system and f.b.i. and layers of clean

police men and women. a lot of countries don't have that. so if these people return or when they return, where we can monitor them, check them, more or less know when they might be coming back to the united states if they were from the united states these companies trinidad jamaica, suriname small numbers but they don't have the ability to track them. that is the first issue. the second issue, there are a couple from a recruiting point of view just like in our country and western europe some get recruited or radicalized off in the net and some pretty radical mosques in the region. some places i mentioned. and it is how they go about in. 100 doesn't seem like a lot and it is not but the little countries they come trfrom have a total inability to deal with it. that is what their concern is so we watch it. >> they are mainly --

>> jamaica trinidad, that baghdad gogh a little bit srepbdz, suriname. i think that is all of them. >> the 2015 united nations climate change was in december. on thursday secretary of state john john kerry talked about climate change and importance of alternative energy. his remarks are 40 minutes. secretary kerry: good morning. everyone. fred, thank you for the generous introduction. glad to be here with everybody distinguished ambassadors thank you for taking time to represent your countries as you come here and share your concern about this critical issue. i'm delighted to be accompanied by our envoy on climate who has been toiling away in the fields for a long time now and helping

to shape president obama's and the state department's policy on this, taught stern. thank you. fred thank you for your leadership at the atlantic council. fred has demonstrated that ehe seems to always have the ability to have his finger on the most critical issues of today not just today but of tomorrow. as a result, we can always count on the atlantic council to be ahead of the curve and challenging all of us to think. we appreciate what you do and thank all of you who are on the board and/or part of and committed to the efforts of the council. you have an impeckal eye for talent. i was not surprised to hear that you had the good sense to hire ambassador richard morningstar, one of the most experienced global experts and a good trend of mine and massachusetts, son of massachusetts and now that

he's the director of the new global energy center you couldn't be in better hands. secondly, my former legislative assistant on energy and climate and then went to the white house heavyweight -- heather zykel is part of this. it is clear that from venezuela to iraq to ukraine there is no shortage of energy challenges in the world today. we have had many conversations as of brussels an energy summit we laid out an agenda to liberate some countries from their one-country depend r dependency in the case of russia and others with huge strategic importance. i have to tell you at the top of the list of energy challenges is climate change. that is why the road to paris series, the first hosted by the center is so very important.

i'm really delighted to be here and be part of it. as fred mentioned climate change is an issue that is personal to me. it has been since the 1980's when we were organizing the very first climate hearings in the senate. in fact, it goes back to earth day when i had come back from vietnam the first political thing i began to organize in massachusetts when citizens started to make a solid statement in this country and i pilot add before we had a protection agency or safer drinking act or marine mammal protection act or coastal zone management at that particular time came out of that sut movement -- citizen movement. the reason for that is simple. for decades now the science has been screaming at us, warning us trying to compel us to act.

i just want to underscore that for a moment. it may seem obvious to you. but it is not to some. science is and has long been crystal clear when it comes to climate change. al gore, tim werth and a number of us organized the first hearings in 1988. jim hanson would say it is happening now, 1988. so we are not talking about news reports or blog posts or even speeches that some cabinet secretary might give in a think tank. we are talking about a fact based based, evidence supported, peer reviewed science. yet, if you listen it some people in washington or elsewhere you would think there is a question about whether climate change is a problem or we need to respond to it. so, stop for a minute and think

about the basics. when an apple from a tree, it will drop toward the ground. we know that because of the basic laws of physics. science tells us that gravity exists and no one disputes that. science also tells us that when the water temperature drops below 32 agrees fahrenheit it turns to ice. no one disputes that. so when science tells us that our climate is changing and human beings are largely causing the change by what right do people stand up and say i dispute that. or i deny that elementary truth. yet there are those who do so. literally a couple of days ago i read about some state officials trying to been the use of the term "climate change" in public

documents because they are not willing to face the facts. folks, we literally do not have the time to waste debating whether we can say climate change. we have to talk about how we solve climate change. because no matter how much people want to bury their heads in the sand, it will not alter the fact that 97% of peer reviewed climate studies confirm that climate change is happening and human activity is largely responsible. i have been involved in public policy debates now for 40-plus years, since the 1960's. it is rare, rare, rare, i can tell you after 28 years plus in the senate, to get a super majority of studies to agree on anything. but u79% over 20-plus years? that is a dramatic statement of

fact that no one of good conscience has a right to ignore. but what is really troubling is that those same scientists are telling us what is going to happen, not just the fact of it being there but they are telling us what is coming at us. these scientists all agree that if we continue to march like robots down the path that we are on, the world as we know it will be transformed dramatically for the worst. we can expect sea levels will continue rising to dangerous levels. we will see nations moved as a consequence in the pacific and elsewhere. bangladesh, countries that are low. we will see large slots of cities and some countries underwater. we can expect more intense and frequent extreme weather event like hurricanes and typhoons.

we will have disruption to global sector undermine food security for millions of families. we can expect prolonged droughts and resource shortages which have the potential to fan the flames of conflict in areas that are already troubled by long-standing political economic, religious, ideological, sectarian disputes. imagine they are complicated by the absence of water and food. these are the consequences of climate change. this is the magnitude of what we are up against. and measured against the array of global threats we face today -- and there are many -- terrorism, extremism. epidemics, poverty nuclear proliferation proliferation, all challenges that respect no border. climate change belongs on that very same list. it is indeed one of the biggest threats facing our planet today. and even top military personnel

have designated it as a security threat to not just the united states but the world. no one who is truly considered the science no one who has truly listened objectively to our national security experts could reach a different conclusion conclusion. so, yes, this is a personal debate. but you know what? the bottom line is it all the to be personal to everybody. every man, woman child, business person, student grandparent, wherever we live, whatever our personal background, this issue affects everyone on the planet. if any challenge requires global cooperation and urgent action, there this is it. make no mistake. this is a critical year. that is why this road to paris series is so important.

the science tells us we still have a window of time to prevent the worst impacts of climate challenge. but that wind did he is closing quickly. we are already in a mode where we are looking at mitigation, not just prevention. in december the world will come together at the u.n. climate conference in paris and we will see whether or not we can muster the collective political will to reach an ambitious comprehensive agreement. now, even those of us who are most involved in negotiations -- todd and i have talked about this and talked about it with the president -- we know even the agreement we are trying to reach in paris will not completely and totally be able to eliminate the threat. it is not going to. but it is an absolutely vital first step and would be a

breakthrough demonstration to countries across the globe recognize the problem and the need for each of us to contribute to a solution and it will set the market moving and change attitudes and change governments and then progressively no one can quite measure what the exponential productivity of all of that effort will produce. so, we have nine short months to come together around the kind of agreement that will puts on the right path. rest shurtdassured, this is not a threat but statement of fact, if we fail future generations will not and should not forgive hosethose who ignore this moment no matter their reasoning. future generations will judge our effort not just as a policy failure but as a collective moral failure of historic consequences. they will want to know how world leaders could have been so blind or so ignorant or so ideological or dysfunctional and frankly so

stubborn that we failed to act on knowledge that was confirmed by so many scientists and so many studies over such a long period of time and documented by so much evidence. the truth is we will have no excuse excuse. you don't need to be a scientist to see that the world is already changing and feeling the impact of global climate change and significantly. many of the things i mentioned a moment ago are already beginning to unfold before our eyes. just look around you. 14 of the 15 warmest years on record in all of history have occurred since the year 2000, in all recorded history. last year was the warmest of all. and i think if you stop to think about it it seems that almost every next year becomes one of the hottest on record.

and with added heat comes an alter the environment. it is not particularly complicated. i don't mean to sound haughty about it but think about it for a minute. life on earth would not exist without a green house effect. that is what has kept the average temperature until heelsly at 57 degrees farren light because there is this greenhouse effect. it was called because this it does whether a greenhouse does. when the sun pours in and bounces off at a different angle and goes up at a tkurpb angle that warms things. very simple proposition. now, it is difficult to tell whether one specific storm or one specific drought is solely closed by climate change or specific moment. but the growing number of extreme events scientists tell us is a clear signal to all of

us. recently southeastern brazil has been experience a crippling drought, the worst the region has seen in 80 years. the situation is so dire that families in so youao paulo have been drilling in basement floors in search of ground water and some areas are matched only by historic floods. malawi is in a disaster where over 150 died, tens of thousands stranded by rushing waters, cut off from fad, cheney water -- food, clean water and health other and thousands forced from their homes. this is now. not a future event. you can find countries, places california where they have 100-year and 500-year droughts and master fires as a consequence of changes. ask any scientist who studies the movement of species and they

are mastering steadily north. fish moving. everything is changing. it is happening before our eyes. that is the first reason there is no excuse for ignoring the problem. the second reason is that unlike some of the challenges that we face face i can readily attest to this, this one has a ready-made solution. the solution is not a mystery. it sis staring us in the face. it is called energy policy. energy policy. that is the solution to climate change. and with the right chaseoices at the right speed you can prevent the worst effects of climate change from crippling us forever. if we make the switch to a global clean energy economy a priority, if we think more creatively about how we power our cars, heat our homes, operate our businesses, then we still have time to prevent the

worst consequences of climate change. it really is as simple as that. but getting there is proving not to be as simple. so what more specifically do we need to do? i'm not going to come here to just describe the problem. what do we need to do? we need leaders with the political courage to make the tough but necessary policy choices that will help us all find the right path. i'm pleased to say and proud to serve with the president who has accepted that challenge and taken this head on. today thanks to president obama's climate action plan, the united states is well on its way to meeting our international commitments to seriously cut greenhouse emissions by 2020. that is because we are going straight to the largest sources of pollution. we are targeting the emissions from transportation and power sources which account for about 60% of the dangerous greenhouse

gases we release. we are also tackling smaller opportunities in every sector of the economy to be able to address every greenhouse gas. the president has put in place standards to double the fuel efficiency of cars and trucks on american roads. we have proposed regulations that will curve carbon pollution from new and existing power plants. but it is not enough to just address the pollution generated by dirty sources of energy. we have to invest in cleaner alternatives alternatives. since president obama took office the united states has upped its wind energy production more than three-fold and increased solar energy generation more than 10 -- fold. we have become smarter about the way we use energy in homes and businesses. there is by far the most ambitious set of climate actions that the united states of america has ever undertaken. it is a large part of why today

we are emitting less than we have in two decades. it is also the reason we were able to recently announce the goal of reducing emissions by 26% to 28% from 2005 levels and accomplish that by year 2025. that will put us squarely on the road to a more sustainable and prosperous economy. the upper end target would enable us to cut our emissions by 83% by mid century, which is what scientists say we need to do in order to prevent warming from exceeding the threshold level of two degrees centigrade celsius. but i can't emphasize this enough. no single country, not even the united states, can solve this problem or foot this bill alone. that is not just rhetoric. physically impossible.

think of it this way. even if every single american bikes it to work or car pools to school or used only solar panels to power their homes, if we each planted a dozen trees if we eliminated all of our domestic greenhouse gas emissions, that still wouldn't be enough to offset the car beenbon pollution from the rest of the world. the same would be true with china and others continued with business as usual. it is not enough for one country or a few countries to reduce emissions if their neighbors are unwilling to do their share. so when i say we need a global solution i mean it. anything less won't work. industrial countries play a major role. the days of the industrial revolution through the last century obviously the industrial

countries benefited by developing and growing but they also created the basic template for there -- there problem. even if all the industrial countries stop today it doesn't stop the problem. it certainly is a signal that other countries shouldn't go off at repeat the mistakes of the past. we have to remember that today almost two-thirds of global emissions come from developing nation nations. so, it is imperative that developing nations be part of this solution also. now, i want to make it very, very clear. in economic terms this is not a choice between bad and worse. some people like to demagogue this issue and tell you we can't afford to do this. nothing could be further from the truth. you can't afford not to do t. the economics will show you that it is better in the long run to

do it and cheaper in the long run. so this is not a choice between that and worse. not at all. ultimately, there is a choice between growing or shrinking an economy. pursuing cleaner more ever energy is the only way nations around the world can build the economies that will thrive for decades to come. here is why. coal and oil are only cheap ways to power a nation in the very near term. but if you look a little further down the road you begin to see an entirely different story. we you think about the real numbers over time the costs of those outdated energy sources actually pile up very quickly. start with the economic impacts related to agriculture and food future security and how science estimates the changing climate will cost yields of crops like

rice and maize and wheat to fall 2% every decade. consider what that means for millions of farmers and inflationary impact that will have on food prices. now factor in how that would exacerbate global challenges like hunger and malnutrition we already face. add to that the other long-term health related problems caused by dirty air. asthma is an example. which predominate lyly affects children and already costs americans an estimated $50 billion annually. the greatest single cost of young american children being hospitalized in the course of a summer in the united states is environmental environmentally induced asthma. that costs billions. the reality is that carbon based air pollution contributes to the deaths of at least 4.5 million people every year. no part thereafter is

inexpensive. any nation that argues it can't afford to invest in the alternative and renewable energy needs to take a central look at what they are paying for. consider the sizable costs rebuilding in the wake of devastating weather events. in 2012 land extreme weather cost the united states nearly $120 billion in damages. when a typhoon hit the philippines a year ago the cost of responding exceeded $10 billion. that is just the bill for the storm damage. think of the added healthcare costs, expenses that result from agricultural and environmental degradation. it is time, my friends, for people to do real cost accounting. the bottom line is that we can't only factor in the price of

immediate energy needs. we have to include the long-term cost of carbon pollution. we have to factor in the cost of survival. if we do we will find that pursuing clean energy now is far more affordable than paying for the consequences of climate change later. but there's another piece of reality to take into account and as you can see these arguments begin to compound and grow and become irrefutable thank you. clean energy is not only the solution to climate change but it is one of the greatest economic opportunities of all time time. want to put people to work? this is the way you put people to work. the global energy market of the future is poised to be the largest market the world has ever known. we are talking about a $6 trillion market today with four to five billion users today. that will grow to nine billion

users the next few decades. but in comparison, the great driver of wealth creation in this country in the 1910eu990's when super billionaires and millionaires were created and every income level of america went up that was the technology market and it was a $1 trillion market with only 1 billion users, just to get a sense of the possibilities. between now and 2035 investment in the energy sector is expected to reach nearly $17 trillion. that is more than the entire g.d.p. of china and you just have to imagine the opportunities for clean energy. imagine the businesses that could be launched, jobs created in every corner of the globe. by the way, the united states of america in the year 2015 doesn't even have a national grid.

we have a great big gaping hole in the middle of our country. you can't sell energy from the wind farm in massachusetts or minnesota to another part of the country because we can't transmit it. think of the jobs creating that grid. you don't have to imagine. all you have to do is look at the results that we are already seeing in places like my home state of massachusetts. in 2007, we set a couple of goals. we pledged to build 2,000 megawatts of wind power capacity by 2020 and more than 250 megawatts of solar power by 2017. it was pretty imbishops -- ambitious. fat forward to today. -- fast forward to today. we have increased renewable energy by 400% the last four years alone. we used a bulk purchasing program for residential solar to keep prices low for residents

and businesses and because of that today there are residential solar installations in 350 of massachusetts's 351 cities and towns. today the commonwealth's clean energy economy is a $10 billion industry that has grown by 10.5% the past year and 47% since 2010. it employs nearly 100,000 people at 6,000 firms. and it is the perfect example of how quickly this transformation could happen and however it its benefits reach. if we put our minds to it, folks, if we make the right decisions and forge the right partnerships, we can bring these benefits to communities across the united states and around the globe. to get there all nations have to be isn't that righter about how -- have to be smarter about how we use energy, invest in energy

and encourage businesses to make smart energy choices. we will have to invest in new technology and that will help bring sources like solar wind and hydro not only to where the resources are abundant but community and other country on every continent. we will have to stop government money from going toward nonrenewable energy sources like coal and oil. makes no sense to subsidize them. that is why the united states has been helping to drive efforts in the g-20 and apec to phase out wasteful fossil full subsidies and taken steps to prevent global financial institutions from funding dirty power plants and putting money in things that will go in the wrong direction. we will have to spur investment in places where it is insufficient. it is easieror businesses to

deploy deploy capital when they have confidence in the local legal and regulatory policy. to attract money we need to control risks. the more you can minimize the risk the greater confidence people and investors will have to bring their capital to the table. we have to continue to push for the world's highest standards in the environmental chapters of the trade agreements we are pursuing. just like we are doing in the trapblz atlantic trade investment partnership and trans-pacific partnership. and just like labor standard in other agreements these environmental agreements have to be fully enforceable. finally, we have to find more ways for the private and public sector to work together to make the most of the innovative technology that entrepreneurs are developing here in the united states and around the world.

this is the idea that is behind the white house announcement that they made last month the clean energy investment initiative. it is to attract $2 billion in private sector investment to be put toward clean energy climate change solutions. the good news is much of the technology that we need is already out there. and it is becoming faster and faster easier to access and cheaper to access. a report that the department of energy released this morning actually projects that in the united states wind power is going to be directly competitive with conventional energy technology within the next 10 years. none of this, therefore, none of what i have said is beyond our capacity. not a pipe dream. it is a reality. it is route there. and it is up to us to grab it.

the question is whether or not it is beyond our collective resolve. we have seen some encouraging progress over the past few months. during president obama's trip to new delhi and fred referred to it in the introduction both china and india, the president affirmed its far reaching solar energy target and our two nations agreed on a number of climate and cleaning initiatives and committed to working closely together to achieve a successful global agreement in paris. so india has joined in that challenge. that came on the heels of the historic announcement in china that the united states and china, the world's two largest emitters of carbon pollution, two countries by the way long regarded as the leaders of opposing camps in climate negotiations have found common ground on this issue. i join the president obama as he

took next to president shih we we unveiled our 2020 mitigation commitments. it was felt in lima and an impact on the ability to move toward paris with greater momentum. around the same time the e.u. announced its target which means we have strong commitments from the three largest emitters in the world. we need more nations to follow suit. and announce their ambitious mitigation targets. because this has to be a truly all hand on deck effort, i invite all of our partners, businesses and industry groups, mayors, governors throughout the country and around the world to announce their own targets their commitments leading up to paris so we can set an example and create a grassroots movement

toward success. this will help us come forward with plans that will help every country be able to reach their goals. now, i'm keenly aware that we can do a better job of engaging the private sector and our partners at the national level of government and i can tell you i plan to make certain the next months that that happens. i know many of you have already made impressive announcements those engaged in business or on the boards of enterprise or educational institutions and helped to lay out how we can combat climate change and i thank you for doing that. it is now time to build on the pledges. let us know hour doing. when i say let us know through the staeut the state department, state.gov and how we can help you make progress. there is the shared resolve that

will help ensure we are successful in paris and beyond. in closing i ask you to consider one basic question. suppose suppose, stretching your imaginations as it will have to be that somehow those 97% of studies that i just talked about about, suppose that somehow they were wrong about climate change in the end. hard to understand after 20 years of 97% but imagine that. i want you to imagine that. what are the consequences weld face for taking the actions that we are talking about? and based on the notion that those might be correct? i will tell you what the consequences are. you will create an extraordinary number of jobs.

you will kick our economies into gear all around the world because we will be taking advantage of one of the biggest business opportunities the world has ever known. we will have healthier people. those billions of dollars of costs in the summer at hospitals for lung disease, particulate cancer will be reduced because we will eliminate a lot of toxic phraugs from smoke tax and tall pipes. air will be cleaner. we will have a more secure world because it will be far easier for countries to obtain the long lasting energy independence and security they need to thrive and not be black mailed by another nation cut off, their economy turned into turmoil because they can't have the independent they need and guarantees of energy supply. we will live up to our moral responsibility to leave the planet earth in better condition than we were handed it and live

up to even scripture which calls on us to protect planet earth. these these, all of these things are the so-called consequences of global action to address climate change. what is the other side of that question? what will happen if we do nothing? and the climate skeptics are wrong and the delay erers are wrong and those who calculate cost without taking everything into account are wrong. the answer to that is pretty straightforward. utter utter catastrophe. life as we know it on earth. so i believe you can take certain kinds of risks in the course of public life. my heroes dared to take on great challenges without knowing for certain whether the outcome

would be. lincoln took risks. ghandi took risks. chump churchill, plan dell adella. that doesn't mean every risk take certify a role model. it is one thing to risk a career on behalf of a principle or save or liberate a population. it is another to wager the well-being of generations and life itself simply to continue satisfying the anppetites of the present or insist on a course of inaction long after all the available evidence has pointed to the folly of that. gambling with the future of earth when we know whether the outcome would be is beyond reckless. it is just plain immoral. and it is a risk that no one should take. we need to face reality. there is no planet b. so, i'm not suggesting it will be easy in the next months or

even these next few years. if it were we would have solved there decades ago when the science first revealed the facts of what we were facing. but it is crunch time now. we have used up our hall pass and excuses. we have used up too much valuable time. we know what we have to do and i'm confident that we can find a way to summon the resolve we need to tackle this shared threat and we can reach an agreement in paris and carve out a path toward a clean energy future and meet this challenge. that is our charge for our children and grandchildren and it is a charge we must keep. thank you all.

host: i want to thank secretary kerry for a significant passionate focused remarks, important remarks that i think will really set up the road to paris but beyond that. we understand you have to rush out to a very important meeting to the white house. i want to ask one question to close there and if you can broaden this to the energy world we are seeing falling prices, we have the u.s. energy boom. how are you looking at the impact of both of those in context of this? whether is the geo politics of these falling prices and rides of america as the leading if not heading energy producer in the world? secretary kerry: the impact is significantly. it certainly affected russia's economy and affected the situation in iran and budgets of those producing states. it has potential on some sides

to strategically be helpful and then damaging. for instance if a company were to fall because of events in venezuela we could have a seurs serious humanitarian challenge on our -- in our near neighborhood. there are a lot of pluses and minus. but you have to remember the primary reason for america's good fortune in this turnaround right now is l.n.g. gas fracking and what happened in terms of of our independence and we are producing more oil by the way at the same time. and we've become one of the world's largest if not the largest energy producer. that is positive as long as we are on a road to deal with the problem i just laid out here today. but remember, while l.n.g. is 50% less car been intensive than oil it is nevertheless car been

and has its impact. so it is a movement in the right direction but the end we will have to do whether i just talked about which is move to a sustainable renewable alternative, other kinds of energy that don't have that problem. and the way the world is going right now, because of the dependency -- another negative impact it has great deal reduced the price of coal and in certain countries people are going on a price basis and racing to coal. that means we have a number of coal fired power plants coming on line at a rate that is simply destructive and they are not coming on with the latest technology in all cases. there is no such thing in the end as absolutely clean coal. so, we have a challenge with respect to what we are going to do. there are technologies that significantly clean coal and when put it place that is helpful. and if you can do car been sequestration and there is a way

to do tit but in the marketplace it will be more expensive than the other technologies that are coming on line to produce other things at a far better cost. wind is about to be in the next 10 years competitive with other energy. that will be an enormous transformation. what really has to happen is the setting of the goal through the paris agreement so that people suddenly see that countries everywhere are moving in this direction and then the marketplace begins to move. that is when innovators and entrepreneurs and investors start to say this is the future and it takes hold and that accelerates the process itself. when that begins to happen that is when this $6 trillion market and the ultimately nine billion users component kicks in and takes over. so, it is a mixed bag for the moment but i think we certainly see the road map to move in the right direction. host: in closing three or four

years ago the atlantic council give you its global citizen award not knowing how much you would be further earning with your miles on the ground. we want to thank not just for work on climate change but your visionary principles and tireless leadership when we know it is historically challenging. secretary kerry: thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]

>> attorney general eric holder called wednesday night shooting of two police officers in ferguson disgusting and cowardly. here are some of his remarks. >> the heinous and cowardly attacks that occurred against two brave law enforcement officers in ferguson, missouri, just last night. i want to be very clear here. i unequivocally condemn these repugnant attacks. i know all of us in the law enforcement family and all americans really across the country are praying for the safe recovery of those two officers. and i stand ready to offer the