law that could sanction discrimination against gay people. the indianapolis star has an exclusive interview with the governor. governor pence scorched by a fast spreading political firestorm, telling the start he would support the in production -- the introduction of legislation -- i support religious liberty, says the governor, but we are in discussion with legislative leaders to see if there's any way to clarify the intent of the law. governor pence saying the intended blowback is the result of what he calls -- the intense blowback is the result of what he calls a misunderstanding.

back to your calls on the issue of iran. can the u.s. trust the country as we try to hammer out a deal? tuesday is the deadline. paul from indiana, good morning. caller: the president of the united states, inept amateurish . he is a liar and a coward. why should anybody believe anything that comes out of his mouth? he has lied over and over again. i lived on the southside of chicago. i worked for him. i cannot believe what i'm seeing with him. this is the most unbelievable regime i have ever seen. host: when you say you work for him, what do you mean? caller: i went door to door to get him elected to the senate. he live to our faces. host: how so? caller: he told us he was

against gay marriage. he said he was not going to do anything on health care he said he was not going to do a total overtake and he did. host: ok. measure passed by the house. a significant change in the tone of the health care debate. a photograph of john boehner and nancy pelosi who were able to hammer out a deal. 37 no votes against the medicare docs this. likely passage on that legislation would long as return in the mid to late april. still pending is the nomination of loretta lynch to serve as the next attorney general. we'll go to bob in los angeles. caller: trust is a strong word.

trust iran? jimmy response -- jimmy carter is responsible for this for the debacle. hammer out an agreement. what is the deadline? why should we have a deadline? heck no. have a great day. host: lugo to joe in cleveland, ohio. republican line. caller: i would like to add perspective. i think we have reached the age of absurdity. when we think of the subject matter about closed border and open border, do we accept marriage between a man and woman, do we trust iran. we are not in practicality anymore. i think there has to be an awakening to what is happening in our world and country. what if we did open the borders? what if we did allow anyone to

marry anything they want? you can carry this on and on. i think we have to look at being practical and deal with the truth. thank you for the time. host: thank you for the call. inside the new york times senator cruz making his first swing as a candidate through new hampshire. governor martin o'malley will be in new hampshire. in early april, senator rand paul will officially announce his candidacy. live coverage from louisville, kentucky. senator rubio expected to enter the race on february 13. should the u.s. trust iran? caller: thank you very much for c-span. i hope that c-span what stick with the rules and present points of information such as

this negotiation is between -- not the united states and iran but six other nations that are involved. why don't the republicans invite the president or the prime minister of the u.n. to speak to the people? equal time to all points of views. host: call of you, thank you for your calls and comments. apologies for some delays because of the technical issue. we are back and running and have more of your calls and comments during the next two hours and 15 minutes of washington journal. steve reilly will be joining us. he is an investigative reporter with usa today to talk about a u.s. peace -- to talk about a recent piece he wrote. later, the ceo of the wounded warrior project.

you are listening to c-span's "washington journal." ♪ >> tonight on q&a, eric larson on his new book. >> the story gets complicated when the question arises as to what ultimately happened to the lusitania? why was the lusitania allowed to enter the iris c without escort? without the kind of detailed warning that could have been provided but was not? this has led to interesting speculation about, was the ship set up for attack by churchill or someone in the admiralty.

i found no smoking memo. i would have found a smoking memo if it existed. there was nothing from churchill to jackie fisher or somebody else, let's let the lusitania go into the iris sea. nothing like that exists. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q and a. on the communicators, more from the international consumer electronics show is really new technology products. >> if there is something you want to capture, take it off your wrist and it will be simple. it will expand and be as easy as gesturing. you will toss it and there is no remote required. it is smart enough to know the direction you toss it.

if it is a gentle toss, it will stay close. it will compose a photo and come back. >> monday at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. washington journal continues. host: we want to welcome steve reilly with this headline, bracing for a big power grid attack. thanks for being with us. guest: thanks for having me. host: you say about once every four days, part of the nation's power grid is struck by a cyber attack or physical attack. once every four days? guest: we looked at the u.s. department of energy and found 362 over a period of four years. these are reported by utility companies to the department of energy under federal law.

we looked at the number and types of attacks over that period. host: the attacks were everything from what to what? guest: simple incidents like vandalism, all the way up to individuals firing shots at critical pieces of infrastructure in our nation's grid. host: it goes to the core issue of how vulnerable we potentially are and how dependent we are. guest: it is hard to imagine anything more important to our daily lives than the security and reliability of our power grid. there is some concern about the number of these attacks we are seeing. how easy it is for some individuals to gain access to some of these key pieces of infrastructure and whether there is enough security in place to detect intrusions and catch the suspects when there is an intrusion.

host: what surprised you the most in looking into this? guest: there seems to be a near constant stream of security breaches at the facilities we depend on for the transmission and distribution of electricity. host: let's go through the keep points -- the key points of your piece. our guest is steve reilly. he pointed out that once every four days the nation's power grid is struck. often protected by nothing more than a chain-link fence and a few security cameras. since 2011, suspects have never been identified in connection with many of the attack. an organization funded by the power industry rights in and forces the industry's own guidelines for security. this group has decreased penalties by 30%. explain that last point. guest: the north american electric reliability corporation. a nonprofit organization that

has -- that is empowered to enforce the industry's regulations for the reliability of the power industry. a system that was set up under the energy policy act of 2005. merck -- nerk is tied to the industry -- nerc is tied to the industry. it is empowered to write the standards that the industry follows. host: our phone lines are open. (202) 748-8000, our line for democrats. (202) 748-8001 four republicans. (202) 748-8002 if you are an independent. our guest is steve reilly.

we are focusing on the safety and security of the american power grid. you point to a game changer in your piece. guest: the attack on the metcalf substation in california. this believed to be a highly coordinated attack by multiple attackers. severed fiber-optic communication cables before firing more than 100 rounds of ammunition at a key transmission substation. they damaged the transformers there. more than $15 million in damages and escape into the night and have never been apprehended. no one knows exactly who these people were or what their motives were. it sparked a realization by officials in the industry of the vulnerability of some of these pieces of infrastructure. host: your piece points out

recent incidents and how vulnerable we potentially are. in 2011, an intruder gaining access through a chain-link fence. in 2013, 4 bullets firing from a highway stretching a power station. guest: they illustrate the openness of some of these facilities. we have driven past them on the highway. they are often sitting pretty much in plain view. we have seen copper thieves able to breach the security of these facilities. obviously they are less sophisticated actors. it has raised concerns about the ability of someone with morning various intentions to breach security. host: why is the copper so valuable? guest: it has value on the open market. it is something -- you see

copper thefts at other places that are open. abandoned homes in that type of thing. criminals who are trying to exploit the value of the copper. host: what is your worst fear? guest: the worst fear is an attack on multiple substations or pieces of infrastructure at the same time. the concern is that we might see some type of large-scale outage possibly along the lines of what we saw in 2003 in the northeast corridor or. . host: separate but also related are the power lines on these telephone poles around the country. there has been talk in some parts of the country to try to prevent that. how expensive is that to have

these moved underground? how likely is it in the next 20 or 30 years? guest: we did not look specifically at the cost of protecting that part of the grid in our we did look at the more critical pieces of infrastructure. the substations, in particular, are the off ramps where energy is doing transported on the transmission lines gets often comes to your community. if we look at -- try to get a sense of the cost, pgts utility whose substation was affected, proposed a $1 million program in order to fix some of the problems that came to light. they have about 5.4 million customers. you can kind of see.

it would get pretty expensive pretty quickly. host: after spending time in upstate new york, our guest is steve riley, a data specialist for "usa today." we are focusing energy breaches. first is joining us jason. good morning. caller: good morning. mr. riley, my question is about the use of emps, the natural kind and man mankind, used to disrupt electricity and shut it down. i do question about what is the u.s. doing to resist these things. thank you. guest: thank you. is a good question. that is kind of a tangential issue to the attacks that we talked about in our piece. there has been discussion about

standards to protect substations and other facilities from emps. it has been discussion about possibly placing gauges around pieces of infrastructure to protect them from these electromagnetic pulses that could affect multiple book facilities at the same time. that has been ongoing. host: diana from new jersey. good morning. caller: i would like to ask about the cyber security bill that has failed to pass for -- now it is carrying on years and years because they can't agree, and republicans blocked the fact that corporations don't want to be made to share data and share their strategies. put a united defense against the attacks. they want to so-called protect proprietary information.

they are not patriots. they dissolve band together against these threats. i live in new jersey and i'm major concern to me is all of these chemical plants. that was made voluntary during the bush administration. they haven't made steps -- is anyone making sure they are taking steps to protect our critical infrastructure? is it because these businessmen -- who are really global, these corporations -- they really have no patriotism to our country. they don't want to pay taxes to protect our country. i want to know the status of the cyber security bill and who supports and who doesn't. guest: the cyber security bill is a little separate from what we looked at. there are, in the systems of regulation and oversight, a mandatory cyber attack reporting system. we haven't been able to access those files. we're still working to access those through the freedom of

information act. we will get that information when it becomes available. host: in terms of security precautions, and the color from new jersey, is it different from a major interpol to an area like new york, washington dc philadelphia, versus google areas? guest: that is one thing that we found surprising. these cyberattacks are not in metropolitan areas. in fact, one of the ones that we discussed in the piece was in ruleral texas. there was an attack in 2011. in fact, the executives there were surprised that they had been attacked. they weren't sure if it was a test on a smaller utility or what the motivation was behind it. we are seeing these attacks across the span of different communities. host: what about the potential for cyberattacks against the nation's power grid? guest: that is another piece

that we explored. out of the 362 attacks that we discussed in the piece, 14 were cyberattacks. the is a much smaller piece of the whole reporting data that we looked at. if you look at different reporting systems, as the government collects data, we looked at reports of instances that affected power service. if you look at any cyberattack whether or not it affected power service, there are hundreds of thousands every year. host: a comment from one of our viewers saying, our nation's power grid is in such sad state, the only -- that only series every structure funding on a national level can remedy. did you look into that aspect? guest: we did a little bit. that is an interesting point. a lot of experts i spoke to for the article mentioned the power

grid wasn't built with modern security concerns in mind. it was built pre-internet, before these concerns of security of facilities. i don't know that there's a comprehensive program to fund security improvements. host: this comment, is congress taking any action? guest: there was the great act. the grade reliability infrastructure act introduced by then congress members waxman and marquis in 2010. it did not pass in the senate. what it would have done was allow a government entity involved in regulating the industry to have more over oversight over security protections. that didn't move forward at the

time. other than that, that's been the most focused effort to look at this. host: our guest is steve riley of "usa today. go this tweet, the u.s. looking forward to our 19th-century power grid updating -- argh! guest: we did speak to our chairman who suggested that it needs an update. he discussed some essential fixes in micro grants, which are smaller, more localized grid systems that wouldn't be as updated to outages. that would depend on if we move toward renewable energy sources. it would require better storage as well. host: from clinton, indiana.

matthew is next. good morning. caller: i am a power grid construction specialist. i travel the country building substations. i happen to know a lot about the subject. my question is actually for steve in reference to security. recently, i learned that all of the targets are -- specifically the pentagon has the ability to shut down specific areas of the grade to blackouts out there in cities. is that true? guest: that is something we didn't explore an article. that is an interesting question. host: hold on. you think there is truth to the question? caller: yes i do. host: y? caller: because of the

professionals i have been speaking about with this subject. it has become apparent that the government now has the ability to shut down an entire cities in the event of terrorist attacks to black them out at nighttime. host: let me ask you the same question what is your biggest fear? caller: my biggest fear is that if this technology is available to the government, maybe it is available to hackers and they could shut down entire sections of the grid. host: what should the u.s. be doing that we are not? caller: i don't know. i have some suggestions. maybe an electrifying fences with high-voltage for starters. host: where you live in indiana how secure are the substations. ? caller: they are very insecure all across the country. host: thank you very much for the call. you want to respond to anything else he said? guest: he brought up the department of defense. one thing the military is moving

toward is smaller localized grades on their bases in order to insulate them from potential cascading outages. that is one thing we did look at. host: john is next from huntsville, alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm a department of defense contractor and an electrical engineer. i have a little experience here. in my opinion, your average substation is a very easy target. they are usually in isolated areas. very portable two attacks. the damage is ultimately going to be localized. i think where the serious problems that we will have in the nation are going to be in older, larger nuclear power plants that only have small arms security and things like

cyberattacks. terminal attacks that have plausible deniability from such other remote locations, from other nations. host: thanks, john. by the way, if you get through turn the volume down and we will hear you much better. guest: power plants themselves are a concern to. many of the attacks that we looked at where on power plants. like the substations, they are visible from the outside often and in one case in missouri, we saw shots fired at an important power plant. it just civil, florida, we saw an intruder who tried to climb over a fence and take under a fence to get access to a power plant and was able to get away before authorities apprehended him. security concerns are widespread across the energy facilities.

host: this is a story, available online at usaidtoday.com, "bracing for a big power grid attack: one is too many." daniel is joining us. caller: good morning. i read an article years ago. i don't know what this item is used for but it is a green glass item that is on all the substations. what i read was that if one of them is broken, and seeing that the electrical companies don't have these things in backstock, they would have to order them

and it would take 3-6 months to get a replacement. host: thank you, dan. guest: that's an interesting point. i'm not sure about the specific device that you mention, but the overall concern about availability of replacement infrastructure is an important one that regulators have been looking at, both enerc and another industry group have put together inventories of backup transformers that the country has. it is under question as to whether we have adequate backups . host: our guest, by the way is a graduate from vassar college. on twitter asking how a smart grid could improve against attacks? guest: a smart grid does have

security benefits, however one of the concerns is that it further automates the whole system of energy infrastructure we have. there is a concern that if there is a cyber intruder they would be able to manipulate sound that. host: from st. louis, missouri, steve is next. caller: good morning. i tuned in late, did he answer a question about electromagnetic poles yet? i understand that either from the sun or from a nuclear weapon, it could knock out the grid. either security measures being taken? host: we had not focus on the specific issue. guest: that's right. in the article that we published this week, it is a concern that a lot of officials have been looking at. so far, there has been no broad

security improvements made to protect against an incident like that. host: from was serving, connecticut, robert is next. caller: hi. i would like to say independent grids. we should have independent homes. building our own little power plants in oliver homes. not depend on someone else's power. host: how do you do that? caller: solar. i lived off the grid for six years. i had cable. i did this in 1989. i had cable tv, telephone, the works. i only needed to generate occasionally when i needed power to run the well. if you change your whole house over to low-voltage, you could

run on 5000 watts per day -- 1500 watts per day. it's possible if you utilize your appliances and everything properly. for us to have an independent power grid, why not have independent homes? host: is that realistic, based on your reporting? guest: that is an interesting thought. i think there is a movement toward realizing that the grid may be more too interdependent and there is a need to move to more community and localized grades. whether it is practical for each household to develop its own grade, especially in more urban areas, i think that is a major question. that is a point that has been discussed. host: fred from upland, california. good morning. caller: one of the things that i am kind of registered and is the fact that many of the schools

are currently participating in the national collegiate cyber defense competition. this is where talent is coming from for cyber security and cyber defense of great structures. they are facing those kinds of evolutions. it's really quite an event that they have structured to do this. are you familiar with a? guest: no, i am not. caller: i would take a good look at what is going on. they have structured this contest in the form of a bay dance. if you go to their website, you will see the structure of it. it's really quite an event that focuses on protecting great structures, both at the global

infrastructure level and national infrastructure. host: let me go back to your earlier point about the possibility of what we're facing. as the department of energy -- has the department of energy sought through the different scenarios? what are they prepared for? guest: it has been discussed and various reports from the department of energy and other regulators what would happen and what is the importance of ensuring the reliability of the infrastructure. host: do they try to go through worst of scenarios and backups over redundancies necessary to restore power? hat maybe -- maybe how long it would take to bring it back? depending on the nature of the attack. guest: i think based on my discussion with regulators here, the emphasis has been more on preventing any type of attack in

the first place. there is a broad realization that it would be devastating to society to have any type of long-term blackout. that has been the emphasis on the front and. host: let's go to spend 90, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. my question regards any attack by drones. i was wondering -- i was thinking a goodie quite easy as they get larger in time that a drone could drag chain across multiple substations in the grid. guest: that's an interesting question. none of the 352 attacks that we looked at were caused by drones

or involve drones. your question gets to the broader concern of these facilities often sitting out in the open. they don't often have opaque fencing around them. there also open above. that is an interesting concern. host: suzanne is next from the kinsey, new york. -- poughkeepsie, new york. caller: i'm wondering since you study the own ability that these substations have had, if there is anything that can be done to help with the emf that is actually admitted from these substations to help cancer rates in communities located close to the substations? host: that is beyond the area of what you focused on in your piece. do you want to comment? guest: it is beyond the scope of

what we looked at. host: let me go back to earlier point about potential attacks. one every four days. that number surprises you when you look at those numbers. we don't hear about this in news media. guest: it certainly did. we noticed the incident in metcalf that many are aware of. we, and others we spoke with were surprised about the proliferation of these types of incidents. host: are there lessons that we can learn from europe or asia? in terms of what they are doing and what we should or should not do. guest: that is also something we didn't quite explore. the security systems in place in asia and europe. host: the biggest surprise in this piece? what is a? guest: simply the number of instances.

incidents breach at the facilities. host: the story is called "bracing for a power grid and attack." we appreciate your time on the sunday. we'll take a short break and what we come back we will focus on the wounded warrior project. later, the developing story in yemen with charles schmitz of the middle east institute. "washington journal" continues on the sunday. back in a moment. ♪ >> tonight on "q&a" -- rick

erik larson. mr. larson: the question gets propagated as to what actually happened to the lusitania. why was the lusitania allowed to enter the irish sea without an escort and without detailed warning that could have been provided to the cap jimtain but was not. this leads to some speculation as to whether the ship was set up for an attack by churchill or someone in the admiralty. it is interesting. i found no smoke a memo, and i would have found a smoking memo if it existed. there is nothing from churchill to jackie fisher, or someone else in the admiral saying let's let the lusitania go into the irish sea because we wanted to say. they like that. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern and

pacific on c-span's "q&a." monday on the communicators. more from the international consumer electronics show as we look at new technology products. >> you just taken off your wrist. it would be very simple to take off and it would expand. you would literally just toss it. it's completely autonomous. no remote required. you don't need to be wearing something. it's smart enough to know the direction that you toss it. if it's a gentle toss, it will stay close. it will take a photo and come back, completely autonomously. >> "the communicators" on monday on c-span 2. "washington journal" continues. host: our focus on the soldiers

that return from the battlefield. our guest is steve nardizzi, ceo of the wooded warriors project. we have aligned set aside for those of you who are veterans, especially from iraq and afghanistan. that number is (202) 748-0003. before we get started, and want to share it tsa from the wounded warrior project. [video clip] ♪ >> from iraq and afghanistan our brave warriors are coming home. wounded. some with wounds that you can see. some with wounds you can't see.

wounded warrior project was created to support our men and women. please help carry these warriors the rest of the way home. get involved at woundedwarriorproject.org. host: the latest from the wounded warrior organization. this is one of those good news-bad news stories. the good news is that soldiers are coming off the battlee field and surviving, but they are often surviving with illnesses. guest: that's correct. there have been so many advances in the ability of the military to get warriors off the battlefield and to the care that they need. more years are surviving injuries that in past decades they would have never before. that is the good news.

it now, as a nation, we need to be there to support them. we have lawyers coming back with multiple amputations, dramatic brain injuries. host: wire use of -- why are you so focused on this issue personally? guest: my dad and my grandfather were both world war ii vets. they're both serve the country. they both came back with struggles. they got me involved in helping veterans. they said, there must be a way if you are not going to serve yourself to give back and support those who did serve. i think that's a message that resonates not only with me that with a lot of the american public now. so few individuals served. only 1% of the population is serving right now. if we are to prevent it from being this will terry-civilian divide, then all of us as civilians need to get behind those who have served and sacrificed for us. host: what specifically does your organization do?

guest: we provide comprehensive human services for our warriors and families. we take a holistic approach to helping them heal from the mental wounds of war, genetic brain injuries, we focus on physical rehabilitation, helping them get active again and back in their communities with a healthy lifestyle. we also help them with education, vocational goals. the goal is to get them back to what we all want as americans as successful life with your family, in your community, and being successful, owning your own home, having a meaningful career. host: according to your website which is available online at woundedmore yourproject.org. serving more than 10,000 family members. me ask you about what the the eight is or is not doing?

what grade would you give the department of veteran affairs? guest: it is tough to great. i've seen a lot of advances for them to get out. when these conflict started, not of us were prepared for the level injuries. particularly, the number of brain injuries. over 300,000 have moderate to very serious traumatic brain injuries. the v.a. in the early days was completely ill-prepared for that. the influx of those with mental health conditions is equally troubling. there are real struggles up on the side of the v.a. to me provide quality care. host: why is the suicide rate so high among veterans? guest: you have warriors coming back who are struggling with things that as human beings we are not meant to see. severe violence, being away from their family, being in

situations and having to do things that create moral injuries. i think the challenge is we do not have systems in place to provide them quality mental health care that they need. host: let me share with you some recent figures, courtesy of "the los angeles times." indicating that 22 ame veterans take their life every day. the suicide rate is 500 percent higher than nonmilitary civilians and male veterans are three times more likely to take their lives than female veterans. guest: those are sobering statistics. we face them every day. my staff works with warriors every day. one of the things that we do well as an organization and eva and dod needs to do better is make sure that our warriors feel

connected. they get out of the military part of a team, around other individuals who understand the trauma they have gone through and when they get out of the military, they go to places where they do not feel connected. they go back into communities where they look left and right and their neighbors have not served or gone through what they have gone through. we need to continue to find ways to connect warriors with one another and with communities so you don't have this feeling that i am alone and i have no recourse other than taking my life. host: i just want to repeat this one figure. 22 veterans every day taking their own lifes. guest: every day. host: primarily from iraq and afghanistan, correct? guest: there is a high percentage from iraq and afghanistan. it is higher than any other generation right now. host: do you know if there were

figures after world war ii or the korean conflict, or vietnam how this compares to previous wars we have been involved with? guest: as a nation, we did not do a good job of understanding mental health illnesses or injuries very well. i don't think we had great statistics on that. i can tell you that one of the differences between my dad's generation when he came back is that he came back to community where everyone had third. every family had been impacted by world war ii. you could go out on your front porch, sit down with a neighbor and share your experiences. that is not something that our warriors have now. host: did you find for the world war ii situation -- perhaps with your father, i know in my case as well -- they don't talk about it often. guest: they don't talk about it often, but they talk to each other. if you look at the veterans organizations that have been around for decades, many of them provided that sort of solace.

you could contrary around other war years had similar exceedances might at would not talk to me much about his world war ii experiences but he certainly did with other people who serve. i think one of the reasons we started the wounded warrior project was to fill gas, knowing that you would have different people with similar injuries and they could support each other in communities. host: our guest is stes steve nardizzi, the ceo of the wounded warrior project. we have a line set aside for those of you who are veterans. 202-748-8003- i want to share one more psa with you. [video clip] >> i had my career path all planned out.

when i came home, i felt alone. my family was around, but i couldn't talk to them about what i seen and what i had done. i remember thinking, who i am now, i don't want to live. i was discharged from the army and i have been working with the wounded warrior project from 2007. warriors don't have to be severely wounded to work with the wounded warrior project. you have a lot of guys with post-traumatic stress disorder. just because you have left the military, doesn't mean your life is over. when these guys are coming home, i am meeting and training. if i come away with anything from wounded warrior project it is getting my life back. yes, i suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder but i am ok. host: you look at those examples and people you are involved with directly, our private businesses

more open to hiring these veterans? guest: i think corporations in general have done a good job at wanting to hire more years. j.p. morgan chase is a great example. one of -- particularly with what it warriors, one of the areas we need to work on is educating the public that not all wounds are physical. it is not just an amputee that might have trouble getting a job. it might be someone who suffers from stress disorder and educating employees of those are real injuries and those warriors need your assistance just as much. and they can be successful in the workplace. host: here is one grandmother story. [video clip] >> i worry about him too much. i was sick with worry when he came back from afghanistan. he came back wounded. not a word you could see.

it was post-traumatic stress disorder. he was angry all the time. then i heard about wounded warrior project. i don't know everything they do. >> one out of every five more years return from the battlefield with post-traumatic stress disorder. host: as you deal with mental issues that the soldiers are facing, what treatment do you offer? what she missed you think we should be providing that we are not? guest: we provide -- health md stress. we tend to do in a nonclinical environment. we taken out bound style project. we teach them destress skills and put them in high stress activities like ropes courses so they can actually utilize right there with the sport of us

and other warriors those techniques, so that when they go home, how to deal with triggers. host: some of this is the just in new legislation signed in by the president in the name of clay hunts, who took his own life. here are some specifics on the legislation. making sure there is a program for returning veterans, also evaluation of the eva suicide prevention programs, calling for better transparency in existing resources. why was clay hunts of significant? guest: clay is an example of someone who came back who had some support in place. he was working with organizations trying to give back and help other war years. he is an example that despite the fact that he was connected despite the fact that all signs pointed to him doing well, he

still felt like there was no other option for himself. part of the challenge is that there was not a good treatment option. there was not enough evidence around what types of therapies work for us to phone in and say here is what would have gotten him success. that is what the bill is tending to address. host: let's hear from all of you, including those who have served in iraqaq and afghanistan. we are going to a caller from out of the united states, from wales. thank you for watching. caller: this is exactly why prince harry of wells visited the wounded warriors during his state visit. i have a friend in pennsylvania. i won't say his name or where he comes from in pennsylvania, but he had a partner in college

that signed up for the marines. he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. he has been working with him in one of these nonclinical situations that your guests mentioned to encourage him to come back. in the last six months, he has done so much. i think you should be recognized for his work. not just the fact that he is doing it for the wounded warrior project, but for someone he calls a close friend, a colleague, a college mate. those are the people that i support. i am giving back. host: harry, thank you for the call and giving your personal account. guest: i think that is terrific. i think one of the things that is most beneficial, and i think the college's recognized it is when we're helping others. one warrior carrying another off the field of battle -- we

have integrated that into all of our programs. pearson support is so vital. having a warrior who has successfully recovered move forward in life, able to turn around and talk to another warrior and tell them you will be ok, i have gone through what you have gone through and here is what has worked for me. it has shown to be effective time and again. host: i want to go back to show you some figures from "l.a. times" on the high suicide rate of those who have served in the military. there is this from jody, who says, we support the troops, why are we not seeing actual support like mental health treatment? guest: i think really one of the challenges you have in the mental health arena is the lack in general, not just in the military fe sphere, but lack of

mental health professionals. until we get after that, we will have the treatment that we need. more years will be waiting significant amount of time to get the treatment they need. in fact, what we talked to our warriors, over 42% of them say that one of their various access to care includes lack of employment and availability of care. that is one thing that the clay hunts bill is intended to improve. that incentive for people going to a degree and mental health care to sign on and work with the v.a. hopefully those incentives over time what open up access to care. host: stan is joining us from kentucky, a veteran of what? caller: i am a vietnam veteran. host: thank you for the call. let me ask you question. when you came back from vietnam, did we do enough? caller: i didn't go to vietnam.

i am a vietnam-era -- every time you call the va hospital, you get the switchboard. they say, if you have a medical emergency, hang up and dial 911. they say if you are thinking of killing yourself, hang out and call another number. wouldn't it be better if they said, just press one now and transferring you? host: we would get a response but stay on the line please. guest: that is a great point. i think that is something that the v.a. needs a fix. the good news is they have a great crisis line for veterans. anyone who is struggling day or night, 24 hours can call into that line and get support. we actually do at the wounded warrior project a warm

turnoff to that line. they directly connect, as you are suggesting, that warrior directly to the crisis line. they shouldn't be a gap or you hang up and have to call back in when you have made the initial outreach for support. host: stan, my question to you is are we doing a better job today that we did in the 60's and 70's? caller: i'm sure we are. yes. without a doubt. i am very pleased with all of the services i have had with the v.a. i am a blind veteran. i went through blind rehab in birmingham and have been treated like a king. very pleased with the v.a. host: thank you very much for the call. we appreciate it. let's go next to jolt from california. good morning. caller: hi, how are you guys? steve, i am a survivor of world war ii. i was in france during -- you

know during occupation. host: 1944? caller: i was there from 1939 until 1945 when it ended. i came to this country in 1949. this is a war mongering country. two years later, we had korea the vietnam. it just hasn't stopped. every president has a war. you know, you try to help -- steve, you are helping these people. your website is going to be around for hundreds of years at the rate this country is operating as a cop all over the world. i am just so insensitive to this hypocrisy. we don't need war. we need peace. we don't need war. we don't need you to help people just keep doing -- i can't even

express myself. i'm sorry. goodbye. guest: i know you hung up, but thank you for your service and what you have done for our country. i think one of the lessons we learned, coming out of vietnam was when there was a lot of angst and different and polarized opinions about feelings of the war. we have done a much better job as a country this time around recognizing that regardless of your feelings about the conflict, we need to be here to support our war. particularly our volunteer force that have stood up and said, i will defend our country wherever we go. when they come back with severe injuries, we need to support them. host: this question, how is the wounded warrior funded? do you turn away fraudulent vets? guest: about 70% of our funds

come from hard-working americans who want to support what we are doing and want to support the warriors coming back injured. we do have a process to screen and ensure warriors coming back in seeking our programs actually has served in the military. we look at their military paperwork and verify that they have some kind of disability. host: mariane joining us from south carolina. independent line to speak with steve nardizzi, the ceo of the wooded warrior project. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to say first of all, i love america. i think it is the full -- sinful how much money we give to athletes and congress given how

little money we give to our warriors. how much money in wounded warriors actually goes to the warriors and how much goes to the ceo's salary? guest: great question. about 80% of our donations are on average going towards our programs. the ceo salary is less than 1/10 of overall donations. it is actually right below the midpoint of ceos for charities. host: this is from jan saying we wouldn't need wounded warriors if we would stop sending people to war. guest: i think our commitment as a country has to be to support our warriors, and for a lifetime. i get this question a lot. the conflict of withdrawing, we may need to be prepared for new wounded warriors coming back.

not willing, we will not see the influx of war years in coming years coming out of these conflicts. many of them will need care for their lifetime. warriors have life altering severe brain injuries that will require decades of support. if you look back at the cost of caring for those warriors from past generations, the real cost is from the years after the conflict. host: according to the wounded warriors website, you just alluded to this, the parties include mental health, inc. economic empowerment long-term rehabilitation, and also try care -- tricare. jim is joining us from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a veteran of a forgotten war. the war in korea.

the korea conflict. i got drafted. what i wanted to ask you is i never hear of anybody in all these other countries -- in the middle east having posttraumatic stress syndrome. just americans. host: we will get a response. guest: that is a great question. i think it is very likely -- and i can say, true -- that warriors from any country will experience the same type of trauma and mental health injuries that are warriors do here. it is just that we have an awareness about those types of struggles and wounds. we do some work with coalition forces. if you look at warriors in england, australia, any of the countries that support us, many of them are struggling with the same types of issues that are warriors are when it comes to

post-traumatic stress disorder. host: again, you can join in a on the conversation journal@c-span.org. from dd, what is the total cost? guest: we spend billions of dollars on health care for our warriors just in the v.a. alone. we had two giant systems of care . one in the dod and one in the v.a. i think part of the challenge is it is not just a function of cost. it is a function of making sure that our systems are integrated, and there is a holistic approach to caring for warriors. you can't have one approach to education and employment that does not take into account physical injuries, or mental injuries. i think we need to recognize that this point that also if we really want our were used to heal, this is not an effort just

for our government. this is an effort for our government and nonprofits like mine, and corporations as well getting involved, and communities getting involved in providing holistic solutions for reintegration for our warriors. host: we welcome our listeners on c-span radio. if you're just tuning in, we're focusing on the wounded warrior project. our guest is steve nardizzi, the ceo of that organization. another veteran is joining us. caller: good morning, steve. it's been a long time since i spoke to you. i have a lot of problems with ptsd, severe and chronic. what bothers me even today is looking at gasoline signs and thinking about the price of gas and all of us young guys going over to fight -- young poor guys going over to fight rich man

wars. it's all lies. host: let me get you a response -- get a response. guest: it sounds like you have served and i thank you for your service. i want to let you know, the nation has not forgotten you. if you need support, there are a lot of opportunities for warriors out there. i know sometimes it can be difficult for anyone here that is out there right now. it can be difficult to navigate these struggles alone. you are not alone. we are here for you. there are systems in place for you. communities in place for you. sell a are here for you. together, we can forge a path to success. host: along those lines, another viewer asking about colleges and universities, how can they do a better job in providing services?

guest: i think we are seeing a move on college campuses towards two things that are very health. encouraging student organizations on campuses so that warriors and veterans know that there are other individuals just like them, that haven't shared bond of services they can get together with and support each other in their academic pursuits. the other thing we are seeing on campuses that should continue to be encourage is veteran centers. that do more than just let them ask is therir money but provide a one-stop shop for services they may need. whatever they may need to help support them in their academic pursuits. host: from san angelo texas clint is next. caller: good morning, guys. i have been a mental health

advocate for the last 16 years. i did not serve in the military. i want to thank all of the military for the sacrifices that they have made for this great country of ours. i have grown more and more as i have mental illness myself. i have grown more and more appreciative of what they do for us and the problems they have coming home, even though like i said, i did not serve. however, a lady mentioned athletes a minute ago. i won the davis cup twice in tennis. i was the world champion in tennis. i was fortunate to make a lot of money. trophies on the wall. beautiful family. i became absolutely nonfunctional. i know the disease. a good friend of mine -- i just want to his book opening in new

york, dr. jeff lieberman from columbia university. his book is out now, the untold story of psychiatry. host: let me stop you there. guest: first of all, thank you for being courageous enough to come out and say that you have struggled in the past with mental health issues. i think that is one of the challenges that we have seen as far as people taking the first step to get care. a not enough people -- even when they come out on the other side of recovery -- are willing to admit because of the stigmas associated with mental health disorders. we have put a lot of effort into putting out public service announcements, like the one you showed earlier on the show. letting warriors know that if you have mental health issues,

post-traumatic stress, that is a normal response to have no situations. you are not alone to that. it is both courageous and appropriate that you acknowledgment and get help. there is help and recovery. host: this from another viewer, do our v.a. centers have other support organizations? guest: there are social workers in the department of veteran affairs. i think one of the challenges that there is a lack of an integrated approach that talks about earlier is that those systems do not tie together well. while they do have a lot of social workers at the a helping warriors navigate care, they don't do a great job plugging them into public-private partnerships. access to care at nonprofit organizations like my own. there is movement to improve that, but we have a ways to go.

host: why and when was wounded warriors form? guest: we were formed at the beginning of 2003. we knew that looking at the systems in place, looking at veteran services organizations, and the services they had, it was not prepared. we were all ill prepared to provide a 20-year-old or 30-year-old with the care that they need. finding a career path starting a family after a severe injury. that is really what we wanted to do. get in, quickly, while they were in the military and stay with them as they transitioned out so that we don't have warriors 20 and 30 years later still struggling and not moving forward with their life. host: marry his next from

oakland, california. good morning. caller: good morning. steve, first of all, thank you for your dedication to our country. ok. as i was listening to you, what i thought about was connections. for me, i'm currently a graduate student. i am receiving my masters in counseling for psychology. i have been wanting to work with veterans ever sense a colleague of mine in my undergraduate studies, her brother who was in the military committed suicide. i happen to be working on a project about veterans returning home and this is how i gained my interest and passion for working with veterans. one thing i find -- maybe you can speak to this -- i am looking, and the v.a. also, and other organizations need

mental health professionals. internships, volunteers. a way to connect so that i can further understand -- not just from an educational point, academic, i'm getting that, but i really want to connect and understand further what is going on with our military veterans. i have followed over the years a lot not only the wounded warriors project but msnbc when they have had shows about veterans to really try and understand. i'm -- help me to really be able to connect. i'm looking for how i can volunteer. have an internship. work i can do. i would deftly like to understand what is going on with our veterans mentally. guest: mary, thank you so much for wanting to be part of the solution. we need more individuals like

you who are getting a mental health degree and interested in supporting our work is when they come back. to do great resources for you. one, an organization we partner with and support called give an hour. if you go online and look up give an hour, they take volunteers for mental -- or mental health professionals and pair them with warriors who are in need of assistance who cannot get -- you cannot get active to go to the ba. the other place i direct you nash general. they have a home-based program where they do training to help mental health professionals understand some of that unique challenges faced by warriors so they gain a competency in military culture and are better able to relate to warriors and support. host: we showed some spots you put together. one of our viewers say, do the actors and celebrities get paid for the ads they are in? guest: no, that is a great question. we do not pay celebrities for

the ads they participate in. the warriors you see in our advertisements are actual warriors who have served. he gave an arm in that piece -- in that piece, he gave an arm while serving and that is his actual family he served with. when you look it ads, we have celebrities like kevin costner or bruce willis or mark wahlberg , and they are not paid. they are written -- they are volunteering their time. host: from huntington, new york. richard is next, a veteran. richard, are you with us? we lost that call, so we will go to leee, fredericksburg, virginia. caller: i wanted to ask to the questions. one, is he familiar with the veterans and the work they do

and is there any collaboration that goes on down the road, coordination? it seems like there are some things that can be done to get these veterans transportation when they need it, especially the severely handicapped runs. also, if one wants to donate or raise money locally with veterans who are coming in local chapters if one donates the money to that organization, does any of that money go to the warrior -- or -- the wounded warriors project internationally? i appreciate and you are for the good work. guest: that is a great question. there is a number of organizations that attempt to alleviate the challenges from warriors having to access care when they live a great distance from the department of veterans affairs. that is one organization doing that. while we are aware of them and we have referrals back and forth to many organizations helping warriors, we actually are not connected to their command as an

organization and none of the money comes back to us. any money donated would be a separate entity and goes to support the work they do. host: how many local chapters out there? guest: we don't have local chapters. we are one single national operation and we thought it was important not to have chapters so the quality of our service did not differ and we could really provide the types of services we needed with a very professional and national oversight of the type of service that is being provided on the ground. we have over 20 offices around the country and overseas, in fact. we have staff at log still regional medical center, the first stopping point the wounded take when they come back from recovery host:. you are based where? guest: in jacksonville, for the. host: good morning. you are with steve nardizzi of the wounded warrior project. caller: i am calling concerning my brother.

he was a vietnam veteran and anyway, when he come home, he was wound up so tight that it was unbelievable. when we were just coming out of the house, the guy shot a rifle across the hill and he hit the ground. anyway, it took him months to get unwound. he cannot sit still. anyway, the treatment in the vietnam war was worse than shameful. these guys put their lives on the line. we had to do presidents that refused and ducked the vietnam war. it is a sorry situation that these guys get the treatment they got. he had a gallbladder that was totally operative and it took him six months.

he had to get a hold of a congressman to get in to a local vet hospital contrasted. host: we are getting an echo because you have the volume on your set, but you are for telling us your story and we will get a response from steve nardizzi. reminder, if you get the, turn the volume down. guest: roger, it is a shame but it is all too common that we see those types of situations arise with particularly vietnam veterans who when they came home, did knock at the level of support from the american public that are warriors today get. i.t. why your brother for his service and let him know it is -- i think your brother for his service and i let -- and let him know there are systems in place and never too late for him to get support. there are a lot of organizations if he has difficulty navigating those. he can go to veterans of foreign wars, the american legion and they all have trained officers that can help your brother navigate the va system.

much like we do. host: how do you deal with a veteran like sergeant who could face possible times in prison -- possible time in prison if he is -- and if he is acquitted, he could need assistance. steve nardizzi: sergeant bulldog -- sergeant is an interesting case because you have a lot of warriors right now who feel like they are reliving their own emotional wounds. a lot of frustration a lot of polarized feelings. but we tend to do to have -- to warriors about challenges getting out, they potentially have challenges with medication management and anger management. this is separate from the

general issue of the more common instance is, they have combat -- combat stress and they are being viewed as somebody who's been a problem and needs to be discharged. in those -- and those warriors we deal with. but i also want to let them know that if you are watching the news about the sergeant and you have feelings of frustration or you are feeling anger or a flood back of your memories of the conflicts, then please call into the v.a. and wounded warrior project. host: one veteran is joining us from texas. good morning. caller: thank you and thank you for c-span. a couple of comments. the vfw is very strong and it is a place where warriors can go and talk to their peers.

and they can relieve some stress. my second comment is the gentleman who called in and said that the talking is alive, i was in the first ship to go in before it started. we would run up and down the coast and go out over the three mile. i personally counted votes and before we started that mission we were told we could expect to lose the ship. which fortunately, did not happen. i just wanted to say that person needs to really check his history book a little bit. the resolution came about as a necessity and when we came back from being on,, i made five combat cruises and that is my

comment. thank you for taking michael. host: thank you, alan. let's go to alex, long beach island, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. steve nardizzi, you made a comment earlier about the administrative costs and the salaries being about the average of what salaries of administrative costs are for 501(c) and not for profit organizations. they have come under scrutiny lately for having a very low percentage of their funds going toward the actual work of the organization. your salary for example has been written toward it as being over $300,000 a year. that would not include benefits

or expenses. can you tell me what the percentage of your funding is being used for administrative costs, salaries, etc.? guest: sure, that is a great question. we are right in line with the border nonprofit industry and our administrative costs are right about 5% of total expenditures, which is consistent with great organizations like the humane society and we are in fact the most efficient national veterans charity when it comes to cost of fundraising, so we spend the least cost on fundraising to raise a dollar and our administrative costs are the least among those organizations. but that is a great question and if folks are interested about finding out more about where our money goes, we are a transparent organization. go on a website wounded warrior

organization. -- wounded warrior .org and we do a great job of not only memorizing the impact and the phenomenal impact we have on warriors and their families, but we report a transparency -- transparently on our website. we have over 500 staff members right now. her dominantly on the program side. when it comes to a mental health programming, we hire individuals with a background in psychology or social work. most of the license professionals. i don't think you should dabble in mental health care on the education and employment side most of our staff have degrees in higher education. have degrees in human resources so they can help navigation for veterans in future career paths. learn how to do interview skills, translate resumes, help them get jobs. same thing for physical health and wellness. we had physical fitness degrees

rehabilitation degrees. to really provide the type of professional conference of support that warriors need in the recovery. host: we will go to another veteran. that morning. caller: i am a vietnam veteran. december 1973, i was blessed with 31 years of federal service, ok? when i came out of federal service, the building i was in had over 1000 contractors and it. i don't understand why the government don't hire these people as temps and terms veterans. especially the ones returning from afghanistan and iraq. i just don't understand how our own government can hire contractors and not higher returning veterans. host: thank you, bill. guest: bill, that is a great

point. there are incentives right now for government agencies to employ warriors. there are goals set through many of the agencies, including the department of veterans affairs to meet those numbers and as a country, we are not meeting those numbers. i would also say that i know a lot of -- and bill, you would agree with this -- most of the individuals going to service in the military do so because they care about the country and they want to give back and believe in public service. what better type of career for them to have afterwards been to get back into public service after an injury and be able to continue to give back and serve the country. host: two final points. some viewers a sane why hasn't some of come up with the equivalent of aa meetings or that model for veterans with ptsd, such as daily meeting opportunities, sponsors, etc.? guest: that is a really great question. we are exploring a model like that right now to see if it will work.

it is a -- it is called our. facilitated support groups and we have about 15 around the country right now. they are led by wounded warriors and groups of wounded warriors come together to support each other in the recovery. what we are testing right now is what is the right format and what is the right next of interventions during those meetings. much like you have your aa twelve-step, is there a similar process we can lay out that these groups can do? and then they can scale it in the communities on their own. host: jim, another veteran. thank you for phoning in. caller: good morning. i am a veteran of korea and vietnam. back in my days, we call it shellshocked instead of mental health. my comment is that i have heard pros and cons about a wounded warriors, but something is better than nothing. and we are getting nothing from the government.

i think that especially mental health, the government should be taking care of. regardless of the cost. other projects, first, -- activities i can understand this. i support that type of thing. i support and give to the disabled veterans of america as much as i can. i have problems and we all have problems but our federal government should be taking care of these people. host: jim, two are for the call. guest: jim, two are for your service and thank you for supporting disabled veterans of america and continuing to give back. i agree with you on this. we still have hundreds of thousands of warriors who are in need and all of us as a nation are -- government nonprofit all of us as americans -- we need to continue the focus on

our veterans and reintegration and do more. host: the website is wounded warriors project.org and our guest is steve nardizzi, the ceo of net organization. you are for stopping by and taking a fewer calls. guest: thank you for having me. host: we will take a break and take attention to the unfolding in yemen. middle east countries get involved and charles schmitz will be joining us with the middle east institute purity you are watching and listening to "washington journal." "washington journal" continues in just a minute. ♪ >> tonight on "q&a," eric larson on his new book "dead wake, the last crossing of the lusitania." >> the story gets complicated when the question arises as to

what ultimately happened to the lusitania. why was the lusitania allowed to enter the irish sea without escort without the kind of detailed warning that could have been provided to captain william thomas turner but was not? this has led to some very interesting speculation and how the ship was essentially set up for attack by churchill or someone in the admiralty. it is interesting. i found no smoking memo and believe me i would have found a smoking memo and their -- and that is to say there was a bit from churchill and it must have been someone else in the admiral who said let's let the lusitania going to the irish sea because he wanted to get some, but nothing like that exist. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span "q&a." monday on "the communicators,"

more from the consumer electronic show as we look at new technology products. >> if there is something you want to capture, you take it off your rest and it will be very simple to take off your wrist and it will expand. it will be as easy as gesturing. you will toss it and it will completely -- no remote, and you don't need to be wearing something. it is smart enough to know the direction and the pressure of your talk. if it is gentle, it will stay close. if you go it, it goes farther away. it will compose a photo, take a photo and come back. >> "the communicators," monday at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. "washington journal" continues. host: we are going to welcome charles schmitz, a scholar and professor in maryland. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for having me. host: we want to focus on the

situation in yemen. the latest from abc news and online at abc news.com. air bleeders same the saudi arabia airstrike led in yemen will continue until the shiite rebels withdraw and surrender their weapons. this morning coming in the final munication that was released earlier today. the second day of an arab summit taking place in egypt. the summit has been dominated by the situation and yemen. so many different players and all this. you have saudi arabia, the u.s. trying to negotiate a separate -- a separate deal with iran and iran involved in this conflict and yemen. guest: yes, that is right. it is complex. the real drivers are domestic. this had to do with the failure of the transitional government after the leader was thrown out in the arab spring. after he left, the tcc came in and with international backing put together a transitional

program that was overseen by the president. the plan was to spend to debbie is, have a national dialogue write a new constitution, and then elections posts transitional. . that government failed. after about two years, the situation was derailed, the economic situation deteriorated, the situation for security deteriorated. in 2004, an alliance with -- who are part of the national dialogue and part of the transitional process, and they made a decision that the transitional government was going to fail and they were going to take things into their own hand. by september of last year, they were in the capital. when they came in, they came in the name of correcting the traditional government. they did not want to come in the name of taking over. there was a shift and they began to impose themselves and it was

in january when they announced the constitutional declaration and that other parties in yemen saw that as a coup and that is when things broke out. host: we are looking at pictures courtesy of bbc. what is life like in yemen for the people right now? guest: it is quite bad. yemen's economy is transitioning from an oil economy to something else. it needs stability to build investment for diversified economy and that is not happening. standards of living are falling and now we have warfare. for example, most people during times of war leave. they have gone back to the village. quite sparsely populated right now and people are quite concerned about the way to get food on the tables. host: as a professor of geography, how big is yemen? how would you compare that to a state in the u.s.? guest: oo, larger than most states, but i don't know exactly

what it is. host: who are the houthis? guest: they're described earlier as shiite rebels and that does not capture their nature. it is true that their leadership is -- yemen was rolled for 1000 years by a she -- a form of sadism. -- zadism. they were privileged under the amendment and in the republic they were discriminated against and yemen's liberal failure in the 1990's, they began to try and find themselves a place in yemen's politics but they thought they could not. they actually come from a youth revival movement for zaidiyyah's in the north. there were six wars between the government and the houthis were

able to hold on became part of the transitional process. most of yemen's clinical leaders in the opposition supported thej houthi and they were seen as victims of aggression. it is only when they deviated from the process and try to govern alone that they were seen as the enemy. we should recognize that much of the fighting force are simply recruits who come from the sunni side and not sectarian. really the ability to provide credible leadership. host: our phone lines are open you can join at 202 748 8004 democrats and 202-748-8000 one for republicans. for independence 202 748 8002. our guest is charles schmitz

with the middle east institute and a professor in maryland. i want to go back to iran this does get complicated and we are trying to understand what is happening in switzerland and yemen. i want to share with you a piece of we found this morning from "the guardian newspaper," and it is available online. i want to read a portion of what the page says. saudi arabian airstrikes against the iran backed hoputhi rebels is a proxy war between saudi arabia and iran. if they continue to trade and have right -- rival militants and support opposing sides in iraq, iran, lebanon, and yemen fears have been raised about where this now regional -- regional militarize could go. guest: this is part of the issue. since the arab spring, the saudi's have seen that they have

received either virgins between the united states and themselves -- they have perceived a divergence between the united states and themselves. this is an attempt by the saudis to assert their military promise. they have not used military like this before also to create original pact on their own independent of the united states. this is the saudis asserting their own ability to defend themselves. as far as the regional struggle within yemen, the saudis view yemen as her backyard and they are concerned of the large order . they're concerned about what goes on in yemen and they went to have the most influence in yemen and they don't want others to have influence. the houthi are independent and

the present themselves as authentically yemen. they do receive support from iran. we should say about the iranian support, it is compared to iraq, syria. it is much less and most people feel that the iranians are not going to commit heavily to this. it was kind of a gift that the houthis gave them. they will probably not escalate too far on the military side. host: of course, yemen borders saudi arabia. guest: the population is in the west and the east and the omani is the one with the best relationships with iran. they have opted out in this coalition. with agreement from the other countries because they play a role as possible mediator if need be. they keep the channels open for the saudi's. host: our guest is a graduate of

uc berkeley where he earned his doctorate degree. dave is joining us from northport, new york. good morning. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to compare to situations. you have the ukraine where the u.s. foreign-policy is supporting the rebels to the elected president, and we are against the state government of russia who was considered -- who considers that encouraging in a security issue. now we have yemen, which we are against the rebels and we support -- and we support the state whose we consider a security. what is the common denominator between the u.s.? is it really our own self interest and u.s. dominance? in that context i noticed all

in yemen, one of the surrounding moniker is are the ones -- the surrounding monarchies are attacking the houthi rebels. in terms of that, iran is the only one that is attacking isis. how come all of these monarchies are not fighting or using all this force or aggression against a more serious event with isis? if they can get together on them , why can't they do it -- host: thank you. we will get a response. guest: the saudis do content -- do content -- to contribute to the war on isis. one of the aspects of the yemen conflict is that they are worried that isis and al qaeda and yemen will get together and use it as a base of attacks against them. they do participate. patient notice it is not all monarchies. the most important non-monarchy is egypt and they are playing a

big role. the egyptians and saudis have made a security pact in the recent years. the pakistanis are also precipitating in the republic as well, so it is not just the monarchies that are attacking. host: join in on a conversation, 202 is the area code. 748 8000 democrats. 202748 8000 14 republicans. this is what josh ardis said last thursday when he appeared at and be -- msnbc's morning show. >> we need to separate two things out here. the measure of u.s. policy should not be graded against the success or stability of the many government. that is a separate enterprise. -- of the yemeni government. that is a separate enterprise. the goal is never to try to build a jeffersonian democracy. the goal and yemen is to make sure it is not a safe haven that extremist can use to attack the west and attack the united

states. that involves trying to build up the capacity of the government to help us in that fight. there is no doubt that we would prefer a situation where there is a stable government and there is a place where u.s. personnel can operate inside of yemen and coordinate directly with yemeni security forces and take the fight to the extremist. the fact is, even though u.s. personnel is no longer in yemen the united states continue to have the capacity and resources and reach to be able to take strikes when necessary against extremist. host: his, is getting a lot of debate over the last 72 hours. was he right on or off base? guest: he is being a politician. the issue is obama's policy on counterterrorism in which he said that if we use connect force, drones, and we have to use our own special forces. and then we will heart and with local forces on the ground. this was about six months ago and he used somalia and yemen as examples of success. of course, that policy depends

on domestic politics of the country. if the domestic politics of the country supported, it works, if they don't, it doesn't. in yemen it has changed. they were supported of u.s. intervention -- they were supportive of u.s. intervention and the houthi don't. the houthi and u.s. have similar interest in fighting al qaeda, but the houthi as independents have to show themselves as not working with the americans on this. you know, i mean -- what i should say about this is the houthi government got very strong backing from the united states, the u.n., and it was the one that was supposed to stabilize and provide a stable government. heart of the policy was to stabilize yemen and it did not work. that is the thing that is mostly yemeni, but it also has to do with the overreliance of international backers on the elite political leaders and

ignorance of what was going on in the street in yemen where people were getting quite disillusioned. host: alan joining us from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i was wondering if you could comment on the fact that the president is it trying to make some type of agreement with iran , and there are four or five other countries involved in this. why is it that the republicans are always criticizing obama? what about russia and all those people involved in trying to make or get a peace deal? ok. guest: that is a good question. inside the beltway of washington, everything is politics. everything the president does will be wrong and it is a good point. we to sort out the partisan angle to it to the actual policy criticisms that happened in yemen. i have noticed this a lot. for example, senator mccain says

that our enemy in the middle east is radical islam. he himself was there congratulating the king of saudi arabia and the saudis have a radical regime in terms of fundamental islam in the middle east, so it is a matter of american interests here. american interests are stabilizing. the most stabilizing factor right now in the middle east is the regional rivalry between toronto and saudi arabia. americans are trying to mediate that one right now, which in my view would help considerably in reducing pensions. the saudis are not so sure about it and some of the defenses they are taking matters into their own hands and being unsure of the reports between washington and threhran. host: our topic is the medical unrest in the middle east. our guest is charles schmitz who was at the middle east institute and a professor at townsend

university in maryland. from connecticut, good morning. caller: good morning. how is every thing? host: fine, thank you. caller: good morning. first i want to say that i support the saudi government and the coalition and the fight against the houthi rebels. i have two dem for you. number one, your opinion -- i have two questions for you. number one, what is your opinion in respect to the sectarian risk between the shiite iran and the sunni saudi government in that region and in that area and yemen? and number two, how do -- how soon in your own opinion do you see that there will be an actual ground encouraging from the coalition into yemen? guest: two good questions.

this is often cast as a sunni shiite conflict. it gives a sectarian flavor to this but it is about saudi interests and iranian interests. two examples, the saudi are attacking isis and that is a sunni-sunni conflict. iranians, ironically in the south of yemen, were supporting some of the succession us who were former communist and all city. it is about state interest rather than sectarianism. although, in the battle opposing sides try to use sectarianism. iran and the arab world tries to sunni minority as a she status in mobilizing the support. that gives them sectarian flavor. al qaeda as well and yemen, they are trying to position themselves as defenders of sunni ism.. they were the one that bombed the to mask -- what isis.

isis and al qaeda and houthi are about the same group of people. the radical ones. there is a sectarian flavor to these things but really it comes out to the state interest of iran and saudi arabia. the other thing, ground encouragement, i don't know. the official objective of the airstrike is to bring houthi to the table. no one is asking houthis to go away but to bring them to the table and recognize a legitimate leadership of the president. to bring legitimacy of the government into play and have the houthis participate. i'm not sure if they will do that. given the airstrikes the houthi reaction has been to hunker down and hold out for the long haul. remember they survived six full long wars by that yummy -- the

ammoni military -- the yemeni military. they have stronger military forces since they took much of the yemen hardware from the military. this could be a drawnout conflict for a while until they come together. a ground invasion could happen. they threatened a ground invasion and it could get far more complicated if they do come in. they would come in from the east or toward sa'raa in the north. -- sana''s in the north. the topography is very rugged and that would be a very negative development. host: where is president hottie this morning -- where is president this morning? guest: i'm not sure.

he could be going back to iran from saudi arabia. host: we will go to jacksonville, florida. good morning. caller: i was curious if the saudis are unsuccessful in their attempts to suppress, what will happen to that region? will they actually have full control of that region. i am trying to understand what exactly is it. host: thank you. there is a related tweet to that. guest: that is exactly what is going on. a regional conflict between two regional conflicts -- powers not -- and a lot of what we are seeing is each side is -- lebanon's one, syria is one, and the saudis see it as that chain

of events. iraq, lebanon, syria, and now 11 -- lebanon. they're trying to put a stop to it. if it fails, well, the couple of things about that, yemen is a hard place to govern. it would be very difficult for me to imagine a strong iranian faxed a in yemen holding out. the leadership is trying to negotiate and trying to bring other parties -- other political parties and political forces in yemen into it. have not been able to as of yet, but at some point that has to happen. i think my sense is, the iranians of the four regions where we are seeing this proxy were, yemen is the one with -- the one least committed but they are delighted they are causing trouble for the saudis and causing them to get nervous. they are probably going to

devote the least resources to this one and others. host: our next call as i read from west palm beach, portal. good morning with charles schmitz of the middle east institute. caller: good morning. my comment is what is going on in the middle east is a game being played with it again. more so about the oil than the region. and what we can acquire from that purchase is there would be an unsanctioned venue tour that oil in that region. guest: as for the oil, yes. the pillars of policy in the middle east and the full of oil -- in the flow of oil, during the cold war, it was keeping soviet influence out of the oil regions and defending israel. after the fall, they have been trying to stabilize the middle east and keep the oil flowing. oil is key to the region.

but i would say that people often say that well, we should go green and get off oil and get out of the middle east. the middle east is a strategic reason -- strategic region for many reasons. i don't see the united states going out. in fact, much of the oil in the middle east now goes toward asia. asia -- oil is clear -- is key and the united states pays a good role in -- as guardians. the united states will stay there. the question is on what basis and what will create stability. for the last four years we have seen incredible instability and a lot of it has to do with the inability to deal with the domestic issues of people in the region. host: next visit mary, sarasota, for the. good morning. caller: -- sarasota, florida. good morning. caller: good morning.

does the united states have a place in the conflict that really seems to be a reformation of islam? a conflict between sunni and shia, and is this any different than the reformation that martin luther led to reform catholicism? my second question -- host: mary, hold on. we will get a response to the first and follow-up. guest: i would not characterize this as a reformation movement at all. this is more like a conflict between two sectors that go way back. i would deemphasize the fact and emphasize that this is the state of saudi arabia and iran competing over influence regardless of sector. lets her member in civil war in 1960's, the saudis back the shia people and the same zaidiyyah. so, it is not about sect, it is about interest.

there is no equivalent of a reformation movement going on in the middle east. host: mary, your follow-up. caller: my follow-up question is, how can we have confidence in president obama and the administration when we have seen what has happened with russia and georgia, and in the ukraine? and the debacle in libya? and the fall of iraq? you know, i have a son who is military age and my father was a combat vet of three wars. i can tell you honestly, i would not trust my son's life to president obama's leadership. host: we will get a response. guest: yeah, it is odd to me that those situations you sign it would be blamed on the administration. they are largely driven by domestic factors. the administration does not have leverage that can control

everything going on inside of every country. the salmoni -- busy yemeni one is a prime example. it is primarily domestic politics, which the united states and administration really doesn't control. host: greg is a next from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like your guest to comment, please, on the two choices as i see it, with respect to american policy. that is, you have a policy of either trying to support regime change and democratic process which in my opinion creates instability, or you have a choice of allowing a strong dictatorship or strong leadership in these muslim countries to keep things in check and keep -- unfortunately, they are brutal dictatorships but i think those are two choices and neither one are good. host: ui, greg. guest: 12, the problem with that

is that they are creating conditions -- well, the problem with that is that there created and stability conditions. there are no good choices on that one. that's what we saw on arab spring's. i would not make it a stark contrast between regime change democracy, and dictatorship. but i would say that it is clear the united states act on their own interests and that the nature of the regime that it is supporting is a secondary consideration. in the yemen case, there are possibilities for negotiation and democratic building because it yemen is not dominated by anyone fraction. the factions know they have to come together and negotiate. that create the conditions for some sort of more democratic and open regime. the saudis is the kingdom, and absolute kingdom. there are none of the american values of civil rights and

democracy and popular precipitation -- popular participation at all. iranians have a very lively like twhirl process and elections make a difference in iran. they do have a council of guardians which creates a bureaucracy out of it. i would say at this point, the united states, there is not such a stark contrast between the two approaches. the nature of the regime's is a secondary to u.s. interests. host: a story this morning, front page of "the washington post." the arab summit back in the yemen leader. pointing out that the care us -- the chaos can receive heavy pressure from the sunni arab allies. is the u.s. behind these saudi airstrikes? guest: oh, yes. they have made it very clear. the saudis -- my impression is that the saudis push

washington's hands, but it did not take much. the saudis planned it but the united states had close relationships with the yemeni military and they knew a lot about the structure of military and they were in coordination on the planning. it was the saudi initiative and the obama administration has been clear to support the action and to say that we support saudi arabia because they did sense that the saudis were doing is partly out of u.s. commitment of the thing -- of this thing. host: the population centers are located in yemen michael, from kansas city, missouri. good morning. with charles schmitz, professor in maryland. caller: good morning. i am a retired dentist. my parents are from damascus. i have been listening to this

conflict all my life. since the 1950's. i have a question, and it was my father's belief that the iranian regime or persian regime, his thoughts were that they are getting bad at alexander. for destroying -- they are getting back at alexander for destroying their empire. if you look at it, persia is in control -- or iran has their fingers and everything. secondly, what has iran done in the last 40 or 50 years that we can trust them? host: thank you, michael. guest: let's be quick, and the initial world work. -- in the initial wcold word

period, we trained iranian security forces and put together and they were our main allies in the region. it was only in 1979 when iran took over and became an enemy of the united states. at that point, the united states shifted the alliance from iran to saudi arabia. of course, we are interested in securing the oil in saudi arabia and the persian gulf in the shipping lanes, and iran is situated purposely to do so. we did so through iran and when they became anti-america, we switched to saudi arabia. it is not really about persians and arabs, but it is about short-term geopolitical interest in the area. host: james makes this point on twitter, go with the dictators and forget about democratizing anyone. guest: well, to tell the truth the democracy is not on the

front line. it is just a question of trying to find stability and through the instability, maintain u.s. interests. i think everybody recognizes that unique stability -- in order to get stability at this point because pandora's box has been open, we are going to have to deal with the whole lot. we, meaning the region as well as the united states, deal with a whole lot of political issues that have been pent-up for a long time. there are many regional rivalries, not just iran and saudi arabia. people fighting about what sort of bridging they would like. there is a lot of fighting about that as well. in that sense, we can see this as a transition perhaps. something more stable eventually, i hope. host: how many people live in yemen? guest: 26 million people rapidly growing population. by 2030 it is supposed to be 40 million people. a young population and that is part of the issue. the economy has been based on

oil and oil is running out. you have to get more diversified and the growing population needs economic growth quickly and we can get without the instability and it is adding to the crisis. host: yemen, as we look at this map and listen to grady in akron, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to look at this whole problem in the middle east in a different perspective. number one, back in the 10th century when they had the crusades islam was supposed to conquer the world and it matter who wins -- it seems like all the wars in the world are based on the ideology of christianity or islam. now, both of these religions when they first started -- if you did enjoy one of the other you would get your throat cut ear to ear.

i read a book called "ions" by cg young and he said that in 325, there were all kind of talks about the antichrist. and to make a long story short he says that it started in 325 and it was a good time for that negative position and the people to suffer where the black people in africa. host: thank you for the call. want to go back some -- does it go back there many years? guest: it doesn't in my view. i have been -- i have been deemphasizing the sectarian factor of this conflict. i emphasize the very short term state interest involved in this. the reason that iranians are

interested in getting involved in the arab world. the arab -- the iranians feel quite isolated where they are. if have americans in afghanistan, i -- americans in iraq, and now they feel more secure in iraq. they have always wanted to have influence in the arab world and they have had a hard time getting it until very recently. they have had influence recently. their primary goal is their own security because they see the arab world as a right to them and they wanted to have friends. that is what they are trying to do here. so it is really about immediate security interests in the middle east, particularly in the post world war two. it is those interest that dominate what goes on there rather than religion from a long time ago. host: let me follow up on a

tweet. if the u.s. into a nation of iraq destabilize the entire middle east? guest: no, it didn't. it gave an opening to iran. they thought it -- when you overthrow a nasty dictator like saddam hussein, have elections and the government become stable that takes much more than just elections to create a stable government. it takes much longer time for institutions to take root in a society that people respect. by tunisia. that is a success story. they very much wanted to dominate as shia over the iraqi state and did not incorporate the sunni and that is part of the opening prices. host: kent is joining us from sparta, new jersey. good morning. the republican line. caller: hi, seen as a lot of the national boundaries in that part of the world derive from colonial era perhaps 1919, does

the general population there think of itself mostly in national terms that we are familiar with american, british, french, or do they think of themselves as religious terms? which dominates in that elites and general population? guest: that is a very good question. in general, right after world war ii, the sense of identity was -- with the national state is less than it is in europe or here. there is still strong national feelings, so i will give you an example of this. a lot of the conference we see our over the nature of the national state. kind of the secular nationalist leading people like in egypt versus the muslim brotherhood. they both see themselves as wanting power in the egyptian state, but they want to change

the flavor. they have different flavors. there are more secular and nationalist and the brotherhood want to give an islamic flavor. it is interesting that there are more secularists and the arab world and those having to have some kind of role for islamic or more islamic flavored policies across the board. they do identify more than we would think amongst one another. the egyptians and algerians, and libya will see a common side, but it is primarily the nation state they are trying to control. host: our last call us from new york. frank, thank you for waiting period caller: -- thank you for waiting period caller: i have two questions. is there any hope of peace in

the middle east? second one, is to democracy possible in the region given the religious overtones of the iran and the saudi arabian institutions? host: thank you for the call. we just spent one hour on the question. we have left them a minute left. guest: saudi arabia and iran are both self or climbed islamic states. one is a monarchy and what is a partial electoral system that has been very active and has caused differences in regime change. whether it is possible, i don't think the role of religion will stop them -- will stop democracy. look at tunisia, the islamic party to go over and democracy prevailed. islam is not an impediment -- in impediment to democracy. it is for competing parties to respect institutions and believe in institutions that is the goal. host: should the u.n. get

involved -- will be you and get involved? -- did -- will they you and get involved. guest: they have played a key role in this. host: in the short term, what do you expect in the country? guest: i am not sure. i suspect we will see more and more air raids. they have been making still advances in the south to say we are unaffected by the air raids and i afraid -- and i think the battle go on for a little longer. host: charles schmitz affiliated with the middle east institute as scholar an expert of middle east and yemen in particular. thank you for stopping by. we appreciate it. we will continue the conversation tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern time, 4:00 on the east coast. lara jakes will talk about the

iran nuclear negotiations. tuesday, the deadline for an agreement. leo shane of military times talking about the larger issue of military efforts in the middle east. and elizabeth burak as we focus on your money and the chip program. the children's insurance health program. that is tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern time. to eye for joining us on this sunday. "newsmakers those quote is coming up next. have a great week ahead. -- newsmakers is an. have a great weekend ahead. happy easter. ♪ >> coming up, a look at the 2016

presidential race. later, bill gates and actor ben affleck testify at a hearing on diplomacy and foreign aid funding. steven: joining us on "newsmakers" from new hampshire jennifer m. horn. from iowa, jeff kaufmann. both of you, thank you for being with us. jeff: pleasure. jennifer: thank you. steven: and joining us are caitlin huey-burns and kenneth thomas. i want to ask you, at the end of the day, how many republican candidates will be in the field this year? jennifer: we're hosting a big republican leadership summit here in new hampshire in april. as of now, we have