objective. >> rarely does a time come when we gain the potential of really demonstrating to ourselves and the rest of the people the

fullest of the challenges. we can put together what's necessary to send people to mars in an efficient way and we can do it by stepping up, by using some things at the moon but not getting bogged down with a lot of investments that are involved in landing humans building the rockets to land them anticipate then storing them. we don't node to do that anymore. we can observe how other people -- where we want to do that is at mars. then we need to invest the things to get to mars. if we invest in an stage to go along with the people that are going there, it's going to cost more money.

we're going to select and train human beings to do that and we're going to send them there. now, i've gone and come back from a place. let me ask you, what do you think you're going to do with those people that go there and bring them back to continue to pay off the investment of they're being the first, the pioneers, the building up of a

growing settlement. they can do far more by keeping mars occupied helping the new people that come in. you bring them back and they can visit different places. but if you broadcast from mars you can reach everybody in the world because they're going to be listening in. and you can give them the stories of what you've been doing right there while you're there. they need to know and understand that this is their opportunity to serve humanity. thank you, sir. some benefits for the american people what we can get out of this, what can we imagine we can get if we were going to do this grand exploration.

eventually we have to get off this planet and learn how to do it for our own survival. learning what else is out there is great for understanding what is out there in the universe. but also having another place to live as another place to survive would be a good thing for us to have. always the shuttle program, the new technology, the spinoffs. but in other industries were tremendous. we're going to make a giant leap and go all the way to mars. can you imagine what would go into that. i think it's also going to have an international flavor to it. maybe, maybe not. i think the united states would be the leader of that i would

hope but hopefully with some of our friends. so i think it would be a great thing for international cooperation. they may not all go and become astronauts. hopefully more people will have that option but they may not all go on to do that or work for nasa or being involved in it. but i do think exploration would inspire them to stay in school get their education. maybe they'll find stuff along the way that they like even better than space.

thank you very much. i want to thank each of the three of you for coming and joining us. this has been a very productive panel. we'll conclude this panel and immediately move on to the second panel that we'll start momently. thank you very much.

>> okay. the hearing will come to order. we'll start with mr. albon. >> thank you. chairman cruz ranking member nelson, always good to see you, sir. members of the committee. thank you for this opportunity to provide boeing's perspective on u.s. space exploration goals

and u.s. space competitiveness. i want to applaud you both for your opening comments. that spirit of cooperation is heart warming and absolutely essential to our path forward. thank you very much for that. america's economic growth and competitiveness depend on our capacity to innovate stretch further and faster than our competitors around the world. our future depends on developing the next generation of technologies but more important are the next generation minds.

we have been learning valuable lessons about living and working in space in preparation for sending humans beyond the earth's orbit. the iss is a model of space cooperation. because of the iss, space is an area where international cooperation remains constant and as a bridge for other diplomatic discussions. as a leader and major supporters of the iss, the united states is in a position to supply a vision for space global exploration. with the iss, we have

demonstrated an ability to build long term space habitats

effectively. the world space agencies agree that mars is our ultimate destination. nasa has the programs in place to start down the path to mars starting with commercial crew transport systems and orion and the sos. thank you again for the opportunity to testify here today and i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you, mr. elbon.

requires a -- security discussions could be used to reinforce etch other in ways that will advance u.s. interests and sustainability and security of all space activities. at present, however, these activities are largely conducted on individual merit and are not part of an integrated national strategy. it is not an end in itself but a means of advancing national interests for security commerce, science, international influence, or any combination

thereof. therefore, it makes sense to ask what our partners would like to do and what they're capable of doing in the future. the answer is the moon with mars and other destinations in the distance. the u.s. commitment now to lead a program to explore the moon would be symbolic first step.

>> moon is not just a physical destination. it also means answering questions and forging new relationships to serve the united states and its allies. through authorization and appropriation bills the congress should provide clear direction for nasa on an exploration mission for the 2018-2025 timeframe. the congress should in my view direct nasa to develop mission concepts for international return to the moon with private sector partners in anticipation of a new administration in 2017. the united states is the future of space exploration. if we're to have an effective american space strategy, we need to align with enduring national

interests because that will be the way they will be sustainable. this means looking beyond individual missions and seeking to determine what future humanity might have beyond the earth and what values will be part of that future. i would like those values to be things we value today democracy, human rights rule of law, free markets. the rules on a frontier are made by the people who show up. not by the people who stay behind. we must sail sometimes with the wind and sometimes against it but we must sail and not lie at anchor or adrift. thank you, dr. pace.

i would note that in an afternoon when we are listening to learned scientists as a lawyer, i appreciate you throwing a supreme court justice in there. >> i want to thank you for holding this hearing and for providing me the opportunity to testify as president of the commercial space flight fed occasion. csf is an -- federation. csf is an association of businesses and organizations working to make commercial space flight a reality. since the dawn of the space program, cooperation between the government and the private sector has been critical to our tremendous accomplishments in space. this cooperation continues to enable us to achieve great things. but the relationship has evolved over time. the relationship that was once defined -- once defined the united states have given way to

more modern and innovative approaches to procure a wide variety of services. my written testimony provides good examples of this. areas where we can help with it in the future. the pioneering -- space tourism,

education. the commercial space sector is and will continue to be --

encourage our international partners to help us continue the space station beyond 2020. >> thank you. i think first of all the u.s. has already taken the first really important step which is to lead the effort to go to 2024

and to work with the other partners to make that possible. so i think it's very important for the u.s. to move first on that. we are i think the indispensable nation in that regard. the second thing i think we can do is help our partners show how to improve utilization at the iss. at my university last week we had a workshop when the federal government was closed by snow, our university was open for a company that puts small cube sets high pay loads aboard the space station. what was very interesting about it is there's been a creation of an ecosystem around the reality of the government facility stable available then a whole bunch of other commercial people have been able to build around it. so a small education establishment was able to go from signing a contract to

deploying a small satellite to space in less than nine months. that's an absolutely amazing turnaround time that was made possible working with a stable central government facility. so it's aiding and supporting the conduct of research and utilization of the station which i think will help our partners see benefits through continuing to 2014. i would also have to sigh that continuation is not guaranteed. our partners are under great pressure so it is by no means an assured thing. it's very fragile. and looking at what's going to

come beyond space station today. >> and you're right in the middle of it mr. elbon. we're counting on you being one of those means of transportation for crew to get us up there. you've got a proven work horse that launches a lot of cargo into orbit. >> boeing is going through its 100th year anniversary as a company and during that kind of reflection of that 100 years, you can see the aviation industry grow from just a starting beginning industry to the incredible industry that it is today. and i think commercial space is

at that same pivot point now. the effort that's being done to have nasa serve as the foundational customer for that growth is similar to the way the government participated in air mail during the early days of aviation. so i think as we develop vehicles to meet those needs, that capability will grow as we go forward. thank you very much. i'd now like to shift to ask each of you what do you see right now as the greatest impediment to the continued development and expansion of our commercial crew and commercial cargo capacity? >> i would say that having the market develop is important. commercial industries follow the

market. so continuing the research on iss provides that kind of a foundation and starting points going forward. it's important that we maintain the industry in such a way that it's safe and reliable and don't let public opinion erode because accidents that could have been avoided, for example so we need to keep it as a robust industry moving forward. things like the csla legislation that helped with the cost of insurance for launches are important that we maintain that going forward. we need to develop working relationships with regulatory agencies like the faa similar to the way we do that in commercial

airplanes. to the extent that we can see nongovernment demand on things beyond the space station then it will be more sustainable. in aerospace terms that's just around the corner. if you're not planning today as to what you're going to be doing next, what you're really doing is planning to go out of business. so we need to have i think a very thoughtful discussion and decisions very soon as to what not only iss extension but also

post iss, what does that look like because without that there won't really be that investment environment nor the international partner environment so that uncertainty i think is the greatest thing we could address. you mentioned suggested reforms and reauthorizations of the commercial space act. could you elaborate? >> certainly. i think regulatory uncertainty is a major barrier that the launch industry could face. extending the learning period the learning period currently was eight years. if we want to foster this economy, this space economy that we have right now and the launch

industry, we really need to extent that and continue to work together as partners right now with the faa. nothing is for paramount than developing a safe product. if you don't have a safe product, you're not going to have a commercial

inherent to space exploration. what is the desire to balance the safety concerns with our desire to explore new frontiers? >> you have to test and learn. we found that out with a test flight. we will continue to push the envelope. this is what we want to do. you mention the westward expansion goals. safety will always be an issue. my predecessor once told me, go down to the override and launch. 10,000 things can go wrong and only one thing can go right.

it is the redundancy of safety. learning from the testing you are doing and the data you collect to move forward. i think the commercial industry is doing that in spate. -- spades. senator cruz: what is the shortest time frame we can no longer be dependent on the russian rocket? what would be required to accelerate that timeframe? >> i will address that from the perspective of launching commercial crew. we are on a path to launch crew in 2017. that path is paced by the internal work we are doing with our suppliers.

integration. going through the certification process that will allow us to certify that vehicle. so it is certified and ready to fly. our program at the moment is not being paced by dollars. if the question was hinting at whether we could apply more money to go faster, we need to apply the level of funding we propose. we will be able to achieve that at the pace we are on. relative to the rd 180, i would say this. the atlas five is a dependable launch vehicle as a system. it has had 53 successful launches. that is why we selected it as the launch vehicle to get going. it would seem that, over time, it would make sense to transition away from dependence

on the russians. i hope we do not do that any -- in an abrupt way that would impact national security and our commercial launch industry. i am hopeful that is a thoughtful process. we work through it in a way that addresses geopolitical concerns out there. also technical concerns of being able to keep launching the vehicle. senator cruz: how would you define a thoughtful process? there is always the risk, geopolitically, if things escalate with mr. putin. he uses access to space as a weapon. were he to cut off access, that would impose hardships on the u.s. so how would you propose we deal with that potential threat? >> we have in inventory of engine's and