home. [applause] it angers me to see mobs burning our flags and chanting death to america in countries that it angers me to see mobs burning our flags and chanting death to america in countries that receive millions of dollars in our foreign aid. [applause] i say not one penny more to these haters of america. [applause] to defend our country, we do need to gather intelligence on the enemy. but when the intelligence director is not punished for lying under oath, how are we to trust our government agencies? [applause]

more endless searches of american phones and computer records are un-american and a threat to your civil liberties. [applause] i say your phone records are yours. i say the phone records of law-abiding distance are none of their damn business. [applause] is this where we light up the phones? [laughter] the president created this vast dragnet by executive order. as president on day one, i will immediately end this unconstitutional surveillance. [applause]

i believe we can have liberty and security, and i will not compromise your liberty for a false sense of security. not now, not ever. [applause] we must defend ourselves, but we must never give up who we are as a people. we must never diminish the bill of rights as we fight the long war against evil. we must believe in the founding documents. we must protect economic and personal liberty again. america has much greatness left in her. we are still exceptional and a beacon for the world. we will thrive when we believe in ourselves again. i see an america strong enough to serve foreign aggression, yet -- deter foreign aggression, yet wise enough to avoid unnecessary

intervention. [applause] i see an america where criminal justice is applied equally, and any law that disproportionally incarcerates people of color is repealed. [applause] i see an america with a restrained irs that cannot target, cannot harass american citizens for their political or religious beliefs. [applause] i see our big cities once again shining with creativity and ingenuity, with american companies offering american jobs.

with your help, this message will ring from coast to coast. a message of liberty, justice, and personal responsibility. today begins the journey to take america back. [applause] to rescue of the great country now adrift, join me as together we seek a new vision for america. today i announce with god's help, with the help of liberty lovers everywhere, that i am putting myself forward as a candidate for president of the united states. [cheers and applause] [applause]

[cheers] [chanting "president paul"] [cheers and applause] ♪

♪ ♪

>> ian king state senator rand

paul's presidential campaign announcement again at 8:00 eastern. c-span's congressional freshman profiles continue. rep. gallego: was born to immigrant parents and 18 scholarship to harvard. but he went to the marines. host: let me remember about your time in the military? rep. gallego: the friends i made , and the friends i lost. i got to serve with some of the -- sorry. i served with great men. i don't think i will ever be surrounded by people that great again. host: what did they teach you? rep. gallego: they taught me

about humility. my friends taught me about being there for each other. in the marines, they taught me about discipline and organization. but that was the marine corps. the marines i served with taught me about what truly it needs to care about another human being that you are not related to. and what you are willing to do to keep them alive. >> you can see our entire freshman profile tonight on c-span at 9 p.m. eastern. announcer: during this month c-span is pleased to present the winners of the student can competition, the annual competition that encourages middle and high school students to think radically about issues that affect the nation. students were asked to create a documentary based on the theme "the three branches and you" two demonstrate how a policy law, or action by one of the three branches of government

affected them or their community. shannon lamb, faith burton, and britney erickson from easton middle school in silver spring maryland, are one of our second prize winners. their entry focuses on cultural sensitivity. >> as the leaves change color, all of american minds turned to football. sunday games are part of the typical american lifestyle. among the nation's fall football fever, the washington redskins are causing a nationwide controversy on the question of whether their name and mascot is offensive and should be changed. [music plays] on june 18, 2014, the united states patent office, part of the executive branch of government, canceled the redskins' trademark, claiming it was disparaging of native americans. >> in the dictionary, what is defined as a racial slur?

we as americans know that the redskins was the inside of a scalp taken and shown as bounty. we have to redskins. we had just murdered to indians and here is the proof. >> the redskins were allowed to keep their trademark while continuing to appeal their decision. senators have spoken out about the washington team's name. >> mr. speaker, it is time for the national foot all-league and dashed football league and the nfl commissioner roger goodell face the reality that the continued use of the word "redskin" is unacceptable. it is a derogatory term patently offensive to native americans. >> one day my daughter came home crying. and it hurt me. i said why are you crying, what's wrong? as a concerned parent, i was very inquisitive. she said the name of the girl had called her "a dirty redskin."

that name was not meant to honor my child or my culture. it was meant to hurt her. >> the controversial issue raises the greater question of how to handle cultural issues. in 1996, the washington, d.c., basketball team, the washington bullets, was changed to the washington wizards. washington, d.c. was the crime capital of the country at the time, and some people felt that bullets was socially insensitive. >> washington bullets. all the gun violence and murders taking place in d.c. -- what did he do? he voluntarily decided that the name washington bullets was not very good. he did not want his name to be associated with that. >> i think that was dumb also.

i think he was a wonderful man. i know what he did it. but i think that was overreaction as well. >> some people find the name redskins offensive and that it is a racial slur. but others do not and think it should not be changed. >> if they read the redskins history, they would not find it offensive. they will find it with pride and joy. >> the redskins are my favorite team because i was worn and -- born and raised in pg county in silver spring, and i like all the home teams. >> christine brennan, a d.c. sports commentator, finds it racist and offensive. >> it is simple. it is a racist nickname. i believe it should change and i believe it will change. >> if the redskins name were to change, the local community would change as well. >> i will turn in my season tickets. i could not support them.

>> the redskins still hold tremendous sentimental value to local fans. >> i love the washington redskins because i remember sitting down with my dad, my granddad as a kid, my father was watching the washington redskins. it brings back a lot of memories. >> it is an iconic symbol for me. i grew up loving the redskins, i was singing "hail to the redskins" when i was a kid. in this town, to me, it is an iconic symbol and a brand, and it would be tough to lose. >> all of the redskins merchandise that thousands of people across the country have grown to love -- the changing of the name would hurt the redskins community, but some think it would save even more money for the owner, daniel snyder. >> he is a smart marketing guy. if he changed the name, imagine how much gear he would sell.

everybody would have to change to the new jerseys and the name. he would make a fortune. i think he is crazy not to change, because he would take so much more money. >> we need to respect the dignity of these individuals and it is time to update the relationship. >> after the united states patent office canceled the team trademark, the team relied on activists to overturn the decision. in 2014, there was a decision. that the redskins were cracked in ceiling the native american activists. the judicial and executive branch affected the local community. >> traditionally, courts have always ruled 80% against indian issues, so we are kind of used to it now. >> people are angry and they are going to protest. that is the essence of the united states on so many topics. >> the name and mascot has created a nationwide controversy

by raising the question of what is considered offensive and how these issues should be dealt with, as well as what role the federal government should play in these issues. >> i say to my colleagues that even the patent office was determining whether something can be protected in commerce has said it is derogatory slang and offensive to native americans. >> no one today starting a professional franchise whatever -- would ever name the franchise the redskins. they might call them the braves, the blackhawks, the seminoles, or the chiefs. no one would start a professional franchise and call it the redskins. >> if it is offensive, i guess you have to look into making the change. >> it is just another speed bump in the long road ahead of us.

>> to learn more about our competition, go to c-span.org and click on student cam. tell us what you think about the issues these students addressed in this documentary on facebook and twitter. >> up next the eighth annual biennial national conference of independence with speakers discussing how the political system is biased towards two parties and suggesting changes that can be made to help independent candidates. >> please log onto the stage the chairman from united independents of illinois, david cherry, along with the pollster who helped get mike bloomberg elected, doug schoen. doug schoen: jackie salit has been in front of the front lines

of the independence movement before people realize it was possible to have an independent movement in america. i am proud to have worked with her for 25 years. as a colleague, and as one of her students. she has taken the movement from a party-based movement, as it was during the reform party days, to move beyond parties, to organizing and empowering independents without a political party, and creating new tools for the exercise of power, and bringing people together across ideological lines. for 30 years, she has been willing to speak out against any kind of effort to cripple or subdue the independent movement. whether it came from a republican, a democrat, or even an independent. here is a quick look back at a

few of those moments. >> the reform party is a sham. it is a cell. -- shell. >> the attitude that calls the reform party a sham, it is that attitude that inspires millions of americans to become involved. it does matter what the attitude is, because that is the kind of dismissive attitude that -- there are lots of people in the progressive movement who are concerned about the possibility of a less-center-right coalition that is populist, that breaks up the old coalitions, your magazine recently ran an article attacking the buchanan sit down with dr. lenora fulani, a african-american independent, a leading figure in the reform party, because of concerns that the populist left-right coalition will have too much of an appeal to your constituents and to the base of the democratic party.

and i think you should be afraid. >> progressives just don't have the full clout. without compromising the principles, they can enter into these ad hoc alliances, and that is the only way they will prevail. for the time being. jackie salit: i think you make an error when you focus on using independent politics as a mechanism to quote unquote move the democratic party to the left. when in fact, what the left has to do is get out of the democratic party, out of the confines of political correctness, and go to the american people. >> you are a member? >> i am a member. i am a member of the anti-party. which is about 40% of the country today. [applause] >> thank you for the kind introduction and thank you for

having me to your biannual conference yet again. i said to cathy stewart that this has become a growing, and i daresay enduring, pleasure for me to have a chance to introduce jackie salit. i say growing pleasure, because as a political consultant, you are supposed to advise. you are supposed to be all-knowing. the truth is, jackie has been one of my teachers, too. i began in, i think, the introduction suggested, as someone who worked with mike bloomberg. it was a fusion effort. it was a republican and independent party, workers and advocates in 2001. low and behold, what we learned in the election, and this is a statistical fact, is that mike bloomberg would not have been elected mayor without votes on

the independent party line. i think he governed for most of the 12 years when he was mayor as effectively as an independent mayor. i think that is due in large measure, and insubstantial amount, to the work of the independent party, and jackie salit personally. jackie is and remains a teacher of mine, because there is a huge agenda that we will be discussing today, that people like jackie, all of you, and i daresay, me, have been working on. yes, open primaries. yes, political reform. yes, recognizing that the largest single political grouping in america, according to gallup, and david said it are independents. didn't used to be that way. but as we sit here today

somewhere north of 40% are , independents. let me say some other things about jackie personally. this is important. i don't have to make clear to anyone in this room how tough it is to be an independent. what i've said to people as i have worked all over the world the toughest country in the world that i found to work outside the boundaries of established parties is the u.s. that is very very sad, but all too true. jackie has been a leader for the 30-odd years she has been involved in opening up the process. she is unique in that she is a compassionate, giving, and loyal person. she is a thoughtful person, and she sees the big picture. she is able to discuss grassroots politics, coalitions, and the larger challenges of the movement.

there is an effort in this country to open up the political process. open primaries, political reform, in terms of campaign contributions. but also, in terms of redistricting as well. the party leaders do not take advantage of their inherent advantages in various legislatures to rig things against the people. i have never been more optimistic about the urgency and necessity for reform, then now. i am, frankly, completely, completely convinced that with the work of people like jackie success will be achieved, if not this year, in the future. this one thing that this attendance on a rainy day in the winter shows, as before, is that the commitment of independents is as strong as it has ever been, if not stronger.

one final word. in hearing people's biographies, and hearing people ask commitment to independent politics, many having left established parties, i am left with one thought, which i think is of seminal importance. nobody would have had the commitment they have, the success they have had, and the interest and passion, but for the leadership of jackie salit. i consider myself someone to have benefited in or mislead -- nr mislead -- and enormously intellectually, personally, and , professionally, from my friend, who i am proud to -- i was going to say endorse, but endorse and introduce, jackie salit. thank you very much. [applause]

♪ jackie salit: it's great to see you all. thank you. isn't that cool? [laughter] you just walk somewhere and someone brings you a chair. great to see all of you. thank you so much for being here, and i am so glad we get to spend this time together today. before i start, i want to thank sarah lyons for putting that beautiful video together. [applause]

wow. our america, there it was. it was fun also, looking at the clip of myself, i had not seen them for a long time until the staff pulled them out for this purpose. that was kind of cool. the first one, actually, the one where i am arguing with john, i liked that one, for a couple reasons. one, it was my first national television appearance since i was miss bosco on the bozo the clown show. [laughter] for those of you of an appropriate age, it was in -- a popular television show in the 60's and 70's. i was on that show, and i got to drink a glass of chocolate milk

on national tv. i realize, of course afterwards, that it was great training for the later part of my career. [laughter] because i had no idea how many bozos i would be on television with. [laughter] [applause] so that was good. but the other thing is, the appearance with john, which was in the mid-90's, john was -- you get a sample of it, he was very worked up on the show and i responded. this was before, as i said, it was my first appearance on national tv. i had not yet learned that what you do when someone comes at you , when an adversary comes at you and attacks you, is that you kick them in the teeth, and then, you smile. i had not learned the smile part yet.

you can see kind of, i'm very grim in that. in the fox peas, 20 years later, i say, i am in the anti-party. ha ha ha. [laughter] i learned to smile at the end of everything. the fox piece, that actually the fox piece actually captured something about kind of a turning point in the movement which david referenced in his introduction to me about the shift from party based organizing to organizing independence without a political party but as a force as a leaver 50-sevens the defects and the dysfunction and frankly the inhumanity of the political system as it's organized and based of course in the two

parties. what we've seen over the last 20 years has been a very, very steady growth in the size of the number of independents in this country. doug and david referenced this. in the year 2000 the percentage of americans who considered themselves independents was 35%. as of today it's about 42%. that number is, in my view and i think in the view of a lot of people, is a very meaningful number. it's a very meaningful phenomenon. we've seen as the size of the independent voter block has grown, one of the things that happens in response to that, at least initially, is an attempt by a lot of the powers that be to mineimize that or paint a

picture that it's not that meaningful or not that significant, the fact that 42% of the country have disaligned in terms of how they put forward what they take to be their own political principals. a lot of the political establishment has tried to belittle that and interpret that away if you will. and that's taken the form of everything from 42% of the country might say they're independent but not really because when it comes to the election time they vote for democrats or republicans. they never manage to point out that in most elections that's the only choice that people have. but i think that that fact, that fact of political life in america which just simply does not go away, no matter how much the parties or the political

professionals or the media tried to marginalize it or paint it as something that is casual or doesn't have real political and historic significance for the country, no matter how much that goes on, those numbers and that movement continue to take hold. while it's not the case yet that this phenomena, this independent disalignment has developed into a full blown american change and full blown movement that's able to create and move an agenda to change the culture of politics, that hasn't happened yet and that's what we're working on. but i do see and this is part of what i want to share with you briefly this morning, i do see a growing number of situations and circumstances and conflicts, if

you will that are going on around the country that i think are important because they show that as much as the political establishment might want to try to put the genie back in the bottle they can't. just to give you a little sense what i'm talking about. in california the voters in their great wisdom in the year 2010 voted to transform the elocation system and enacted a top two system in california. for those of you who are not familiar with all the technicalities of the different systems. they said, look, here's the fundamental principal we're going to operate with.

the fundamental principal of the electoral process has to be that every voter has full access to every stage of the political process without having to join a political organization as a condition for entry into the political process. and so the top two system was adopted in california in order to enforce that principal and that became the law of the land in california. i see some of my california friends in the audience today and that was a huge, huge victory. naturally when the system was passed and implemented immediately all the power players tried to figured out what they were trying to do. could they punch holes in it and

overturn and cut some kind of deal so everybody had been busy trying to do that and that's good. that's good my feeling on that is bring it on baby, because let's have the conversation and let's have the fight and deal with the issues and break it down. but most of all let's do that in such a way so that we can bring the people of california, the people of america, all the people into the process of saying what kind of democracy we want to have. that's our job. that's our job. in california recently university of california berkeley journal of politics and it was devoted to the analysis of impact of top two. so they published 15 articles

written by 18 political scientists and let me just say that generally speaking the attitude of these political scientists towards this new system was not sympathetic. i wanted to share with you just some of the titles of the articles because i really got a kick out of this and they're kind of scary. these are like political scientists and if you even buy the idea that there is a science that political scientists are experts. i find it entertaining to read their stuff. top two too soon to tell. why the top two primary fails california voters. here was my favorite, is california's top two primary bad for women candidates?

guess what the answer was. but as i say, this is the good thing. this is a good thing. it's good tore the opposition to put the cards out on the table and argue why this system is a better system for the voters and for the people of this country. that's part of what i want us to talk about today and the panels that we're holding. we have incredible leaders and vast experience in community organizing and holding public office and fighting for democracy and political reform and fighting as outsiders and insiders and i want to use this time and use their experience to dig deeper into these issues because i think they're so very important. but the thing about this though that i really want to you understand is that part of what happens when you open these issues up and when you bring

them out into the public square is that people are forced to take positions on things and they actually get thrown off their game. they get thrown off their game. that shows you in my view the power of what it is that we're doing, the power and the importance of focusing on structural political change because it doesn't fit into the traditional ideological categories. it really skutles the convention political wisdom and forces people to do things to get them off their game. so one example of this is that after the california pieces came out and then a number of folks who were ardent supporters wrote pieces that refuted what the

krufplt berkeley journal said and this provoked a lot of pieces including a histrionic response from a guy who has a hrefpt wing of the democratic party. he wrote an article criticizing top two and he said, here's the basic thing that is wrong with -- top two promised that it was going to deliver a more moderate legislature. but it didn't. and so now we know that it's a bad system. so i was very perplexed by this. first because top two doesn't promise a more moderate legislature. some people might advocate for

it but that's not the promise of top two. the second thing is that they made their entire political career based on saying that the democratic party is too moderate. that's their whole political message. so now for them to turn around and to say, we don't like top two because it was supposed to make things more moderate and it didn't wait a second, what do you want? do you want moderate or do you not want moderate? what are you going for here. but the reason this is important and the reason that i shared the story with you is that this is an example of in this case a particular political player being thrown off their game, the existing categories don't apply. you can't invoke the same things, the same arguments. the same level of a political appeal. you can't invoke those things because top two open primarilies

redistricting reform the whole gamut that our movement is interested in and by the way that there is a tpwrod cross section of issues that people bring to the table on the reform front and that's good. not everybody agrees with everybody on thesish skpaouz we'll see some of that in some of our panels today and i think that's a good thing. that's a good thing. i'm happy about that. i want to have open and honest and direct dialogue about all of these issues. these are important issues for our country. but the thing to see about this is that the way that our movement grows and perhaps this is maybe the core message that i want to give you today is that it grows because changing the game is not something that happens up here. it's something that happens in the real crucible in the real day-to-day

life in the new political battles and the new political conflicts that are unfolding in this country. that's how the game changes. you see, in the state of mississippi, some of you know this story. in the state of mississippi the open primary system through politics into total turmoil in the last election. why? well mississippi is an open primary state and happens to be controlled by the republicans. in the last election in the midterm election the u.s. senate race was up and the incumbent u.s. senator a republican was challenged by tea party candidate chris mcdaniel in the primary and did not receive enough votes to win the republican nomination without the a runoff. so that race went to a runoff in

mississippi. so the race was between pat cochran, a somewhat moderate republican senator and a tea party, very,very social conservative candidate from the far right. they went out to the black leadership in mississippi and they said, you know what, we want to come to you and make an appeal to you to bring out black voters in this election, in this runoff election in support of senator cochran and use the fact that there's an open primary in this state and anybody can vote. you don't to have been a member of the republican party. anybody can vote in this runoff. bring this community into this election to defeat the far right. we'll expand our support for the things that we're trying to bring into the african-american community to deal with issues

that you're concerned with. it was an open primary. i'm not sitting here advocating for cochran. the that is is that this situation has now gotten everybody in mississippi into an uproar. oh my god. this thing happened that wasn't supposed to happen. voters that were supposed to vote over here went over here and voted and produced a certain outcome that wasn't expected and voters did something they weren't supposed to do. in this case african-americans did something other than voting for a democrat. oh my god. the world is changing. that's right. and one of the reasons that we advocate and work so hard for

political reforms that open up the political process is that we want to give voters and we want to give communities the opportunity to do something different and use their power and use their vote to create different kinds of outcomes to upset the apple cart, to change the game and to make it the case that the politicians and the parties can no longer rely on the conventional wisdom to determine how they run elections and how they govern and how they represent the people of this country. that's got to change. i got a call from a reporter at politico a few weeks ago and he wanted to talk to me about a whole set of things that were going on where this were challenges to open primaries in

the state that's have open primaries and we're talking here about montana mississippi tennessee, hawaii, alabama, south carolina kind of a whole load of things. we talked about things basically you have some right wing elements republican party trying to get the primaries closed in certain case and make it the case that you have to join the party in order to participate in a primary. so we're having this conversation and he's asking me all these questions and i'm filling him in on the story. he said here ewhat i don't understand about this aggressiveness and acceleration of aggressiveness on the part of the parties against independence. what i don't understand is that it seems to me when's been happening other than california

and washington state that every time an open primary initiative is put on the ballot whether here in new york or in arizona in 2012 or in oregon twice, it loses. so i said to him that is such a good question. because it really, really goes to the heart of the matter. it takes time to build a movement that can perform in certain ways at the ballot box. it takes time and development

and takes history to make that happen. they know the american people are on to them. they know that the dissatisfaction that they're seeing in the polling -- we know the numbers of how people feel about on anding the lowest rating ever in the history -- 9% of people think congress is doing a -- you know, whatever. all that kind of stuff. they know in my opinion that it's not just about what's happening at the ballot box right now or what's showing up in the polls right now. they know that.

they know that the dysfunction of the american political system is something that the american people are deeply, deeply concerned about. deeply concerned about. in my opinion they are trying to take steps to push back against that sensibility, that feeling, that movement that movement becoming a move. i read a wonderful book that was drip written in the 19 fifties called "the origins of modern science." i was introduced to him by a founder of our movement and i read this book and he talks about the scientific revolution. he talks about how a misunderstood part of the scientific revolution was that

the feelings of masses of people in the world were changing in terms of their understanding of how the world was put together. this is a little understood part of the scientific -- it's not just about a bunch of smart guys in a room coming up with an understanding of how the circumstance la tore system actually works. the the /* thei think the impulse in the scientific revolution is driving if you will a political revolution in america today. a sense on the part of the american people from all walks of life from all different kphaoupb communities with a range of different concerns a

sense that the way we're doing this, the way we're seeing this is inadequate to the changes we face as a country. i think that the parties and the powers that be, they don't understand it completely. but they do understand i think they have a sense that there is a momentum that is there a process that there is that developal consideration of how our country is organized politically and the need to make pro found structural and cultural changes. i believe they see that. so i want to move to our panels

i want to share my thoughts with you in the following way. i'm very, very glad and feel very, very welcoming of -- there's numbers of people who come to the conference this year who are considering bringing initiatives for top two on to the ballot in their states. i'm so excited that you're here and that you're coming, not just to this event but to this community of activists and leaders to learn and to talk about what you're doing. i think that he so important. i want to see if i could share maybe a little bit of my own experience or wisdom or belief with you. when you start to do these campaigns keep this in mind.

i know you bring in your consultant and your communications guy. you bring in your specialist. you bring in your data base people. you crunch the numbers. you test the slogans. go for it. but, but you cannot get across the finish line without bringing the movement with you. [applause] that's the moral compass and the base of making these kinds of

changes. the millions of people that these people represent you are the folks that are going to make the change. so thank you you are my inspiration. you you are my inspiration. let's get to work. more now from the national conference of independence with the way how the u.s. political system addresses poverty, healthcare and low voter turn out. from new york city this is an hour and a half. >> hello, everyone.

let's get to it. the title of this planl can democracy transform the social crisis. this is a very big and important question for the country and us of the here's what i wanted to do. i wanted to see if i could ask each of you to share some thoughts on the following question. in a time of social crisis that we are living through, poverty is on the rise, joblessness, hopelessness is on the rise, young people are having a terrible time finding their way into careers and into the mainstream. there's a huge housing problem. the education crisis and just a

few examples of some of what we're dealing with here. sometimes when that goes on and those kinds of conditions go on it can make people more concern active and by concern active more frightened and more feeling that they have to hold on to what already exists because it's too risky to consider certain kinds of change, even though they also want change and they feel the change is so critical and needed that they're torn in some ways because the conditions of life can be so difficult. so i wanted to start by asking each of you to talk about that from your vantage point and from your experience, the difficulties that our communities and the american people in different ways are facing. is that acting as a break on certain kinds of political

changes? if so, how do we break through that, or is that or or are there also new ways of looking at the scene that people are experiencing from your view from where you sit. let me throw that out to you. >> i think if you take a look the what is happening not just inside society but but what's happening politically as well as in business there is a dramatic shift that's taking place regardless what we do as leaders. we certainly see it in terms of numbers of people who are registering as independents, that's having an effect. in business we're seeing a whole change that's taking place as well because there is no now new information and neck technology.

you're starting toing to watch the rise of the exponential organization and they're being promoted through different saoeupbts of efforts. the reason they win is because they put if the over hierarchy. that seems to me to be exactly what has to happen in politics today. it's the idea that what we need as a that proceeds ideas instead the existing system we have. the kpeufting system is built on hierarchy and power and interest groupsdis disproportion nature voice than people do. our political system is way behind the political curve.

>> illinois right now 88% of african mail males between 16 and 19 are are unemployed. that's on my platform. 85% of homicides take place in the african-american community in chicago. these are some issues that we

need to address. no one wants to talk about police brutality. because what happens with some politicians they take on those issues and they think they're going to do something about it then it just drops once they get in office because it's an enormous issue to try to take on. i like what you said just do it and make it out. i went out and secured all those sites. i only needed 5,000 to make the ballot. i went out and got 60,000 signatures myself. 50,000. that's what it's come down to for me. >> i think what we're answering is the impact of democracy potentially on the social crises. and i've been thinking about that. the first time i voted i was --

i don't know i voted for nancy ross and i was running for lieutenant governor and never been in the voting booth my life pu where i had been in the world was in the midst of poverty. i'm from a small town in pennsylvania and more and more poor people exist and are coming to be poor in this country i think it's so critical for people -- poor people and people who are not poor who care about poverty to come together around the issue of strengthening our democracy. it has nothing to do with who gets elected because people get elected in formations that have created the poverty. they don't care about it and they don't want anything basically to do about it and they don't talk about poverty in

this country. i think that we have to continually deepen people's understanding about the relationship between these two and i think the african-american community has a particular role in that because we've been taught that the reason we're poor is because we're shipless and not that we built this goddamn country and it never let us in. [applause] >> and i think there is no way to engage these issues unless we come together and not just go to the voting booth but do what we're doing and what people are doing which is to create an environment where voting means something. [applause] >> i guess i'll take off from the environment and where voting means something because i think

that's what we're all suffering from. the more i've been exx posed to the political system, the more dysfunction has become clear. and coming from the background i come from i'm grassroots participation is what really makes the difference in my mind. the most toxic environment can i think of for politics is washington, d.c. where there is very little flexibility and the system is structurally rewarding the wrong things right now. i always remember the f.d.r. quote, you convinced me. now make me do it. it's about giving -- they want to be good leaders. they don't go into this because they want to undermine people and prosperity is something that

everything that they want. we have different visions of what that this is and talking about the feeling at risk and get into that sense of crouch and your ability to be creative for me to care about what -- i care about -- with i care about you and you care about pee and we're having a conversation about how to solve a problem we'll come up with such superior solutions to when i don't trust you, i don't like you and i think your ideas are really stupid and all of a sudden you get these solutions that frankly are terrible.

that kind of we -- i want to meet your needs and you want to meet my needs and the outcome will be dramatically better and we get creative and come up with something better than either side can come up with. the architecture of the system is designed to keep people out. independents make up about 35%. they're the biggest unaccording tphaoeuzed group. yet if you run for governor you need 6,000 signatures if you're a democrat and 7,000 if you're a

republican and you need 39,000 if you're an independent. if you need a voter list because you have to know how to communicate with voters it's free if you're a democrat and republican and little over $100,000 if you want to run as an independent. and last this is the one that's crazy and to me is that in 1994 we passed an effort that allowed independents they also said we have an automatic early voting. you end up on the list if you voted on an early ballot the year before unless you're an independent f you're an understand you have to reregister every single time in the primaries. meaning the rules are rigged.

they're rigged to try to keep those -- that group of people out. in fact, amongst hispanics, 50% are independent. it's the largest group. this is the largest voter suppression effort we have seen. we have would seen it back in the 1960's. instead today we ignore it and we're not paying attention to the fact that there are a large group of voices who today are being silenced it was of the architecture of the system. >> part of what i hear everyone describing in different ways is there's a set of things that have become intractable in this country intractable poverty

intractable conditions that produce violence intractable stems in the political sphere that don't allow people to participate and almost as if things are frozen in place and everything is allowed to be only the thing that it already is. how do we break through that? >> in my opinion, you have to present the solution to the powers that be to a degree. they won't go for it. when i ran for governor, at the same time i made a loft enemies because i did so good. even some of the radio stations

and publicly funded t.v. shows they wouldn't get me get on some of their shows. the organizer would sad oh indicate. the powers that be that were you talking about they had the system rigged. it's going to take a multitude of the people to continue organizing. i mean, we have enough independents to make change in the a lot of states but it's going to take a leader to approach the agenda. the same way people are organizing in ferguson missouri we need an independents organizer. that's what i would like to add. >> one of the things that

obviously intractable is our relationships to each other. people in this country are so divided and somebody works over time to make sure that that continues to happen. to me why democracy can impact the social crises is because for me what democracy is is power for the people. and we have to take ourselves seriously as the people who have to produce that. and so many things like the way in which poverty is understood and organized in america keeps us apart i've been speaking to a lot more white poor people over the past couple of years and i say to them you're poor. the things you have going for you the government says to you at least you're not black but that doesn't feed your children. that doesn't deal with the crises in your homes as you work

to troy to come to terms with that. we have to do something about that and what that means is that people have to come together to work in ways to transform this. we of to have honest conversations. i spend hours teaching the black and latino community individually and over all that it is poor and poverty is not a personal position. it's come about as a result of our history in our nation. and the abandonment by so many different institutions everything is a mess. to the degree that we accept that and we can cross those lines that exist between us and -- i don't know white people and other people which is what the independent movement i think has done so well, but it has to

grow at the bottom around these issues also i think we could transform america exand that's what we should be working on. when you're talking about the different communities you're talking about the living conversations or specifically designed because we live in increasingly self-segregated communities. when i ask my progressive friends to have conversation with someone with a different view they say, you know, i don't think i know any conservatives. i live in berkeley.

>> so does my daughter. i mean i love her. >> but, you know, that's a terrible thing to say that we have had that much division. and that much -- we know that when people with like minds talk together about an issue they get more radicalized with that view and that's part of what has been happening to us. we live in separate narrative streams. sometimes our facts dang, they're different. they're very different. and that makes it very hard for us to have a good discussion or solution. the living room conversations is invitation to start reconnecting at the core this have initiative

is one small simple tool is about making the human connection. most people think it's our intellect and actually it's our emotion that's guide us. i like you and i hear was say and i'm more likely to believe you and remember it and i'm more likely to be sitting there trying to figure things out with you in a way that's going to try to make you happy. if we can just start having a relationship, then our potential for solving all of these issues -- now i could have living room conversation about the arizona structure because i bet you people across the board would say, hey, that's not fair. i would like to change that. we're sending up flags all the

time this is the tribe i'm in and if you're not in that tribe then you're kind of careful about what you say and then you don't really get real until you're with -- and this is a self-fulfilling prophecy as we find ourselves drifting apart. my hope that is independents, you have the desire to be part of the democracy and help heal it, you are in a wonderful decision to say, yeah, we're going to be part of this and high man part of this conversation and democracy. >> in 2016 we hope to be ground 0 on this issue so we would love to you out in your neighborhoods having those conversations. just to give you a second on how structure effects the minds of elected officials. let me give you an example i was

involved with. >> the minds? >> the minds of elected officials because that's what we're talking about at the end of the day. scary thought, yes. i was on the city council and elected at 24 years old and grew up in the second highest poverty pocket in the state and did have terrific parents and nine brothers and sisters. but nonetheless, i came from a poor area and i ran in the district that was pretty much an affluent area. i won by knocking on doors and meeting people within at a time. i knocked on 84,000 doors and i met with paoeplteople. i ran in a non partisan election. they had an effect on how i thought, there was no doubt i met legally republicans and had

ideas and talked about issues that were important to them and their structures and it had an influence on me. >> our governor bruce passed it. there was a republican primary when bruce left was a very heated primary and many thought that a moderate fellow was going to win but what happened there was an extreme individual he was set to win the general election. when he got into office, the very first thing he did, he said the very first thing i'm going to do is get rid of that martin luther kenning day and then i began to make comments. these comments you can look them up. they're real but he said things

like, i don't know what their problem is. when i was young black people liked being called pick in90 knees. the pope came to arizona and he said i'll meet with him but does he speak english. he wept to a jewish convention and he said they ought to be happy that doesn't do to them that other people have done to them in the world. the guy was radical. when he got rid of martin luther king day we went to the voter and put it on the ballot. he came back on and put on an item that's the same but different date. he flipped the vote and successful doing it and then we did it again. i organized leaders and spoke to people on another side and listened to people exactly how they thought of the because of that we could filled the

coalition. arizona is still the only state in the nation that passed the martin martin luther king day by a minority of the citizens. i'm very proud of that. the same elect trat that voted in haoebg ham. we had another issue that said that could you legally discriminate against gays. the list goes on and on in terms of what comes out of our ladies and gentlemen later that is far right wing. they do not remember the arizona voters. they remember the four% of the people who show up in a republican prime merery in our stat. the key is for arizona, for us to be ail to back out of that and give a choice voice to the

ma'am kwrort of the voters is to make sure you change that architecture. but here's what is more important. you cannot get people to understand poverty unless you're willing to understand commerce. or how to fix problems until you understand the importance of working together. a non partisan system in my opinion is meant to ifs facilitate the system on all sides so we can move our society forward. >> let me see if i can dig a little deeper on what you're saying here. athlete's talk about democracy and poverty. let's go right at this question and let's talk about this. in your views how does expanding democracy at this

point in america put us in a better position to engage the issue of poverty? how do you see that both at a political level and moral level and also at a practical level. how do we bring those two issues together? >> one thing is in 2005 when michael bloomberg ran for my mayor in new york city he got 50% of the black vote of the job has ever gotten that in the last 20 or 3 years unless you're a democrat. so it was phenomenal. we went to bed that night -- i went to bed that night. silly me thinking i was going to be waking up in the morning thinking it would be front pain news.

nobody acknowledged that 50% of the black community had gone out and voted for an independent. we got the vote primarily on the independent's party line. i think the reason for that is because that announcement comes hand in hand with the fact that you can step outside of your box and do something different and reorganize yourselves in such a way in the political arena so that you have power. and the people who run this city were determined they were not going to convey that. with power you do the things that you need to impact on. people in this city currently for this cold, cold season have been in housing and there has been no heat. so that's what a politicalish skpaou has to do with people knowing that you can stand up and say, you better turn on this heat or whoever you are in the

area that we're in we won't vote for you. and this are a whole host of things to me that would be taken offer if in fact we ten to build people's sensibilities and involvement and emergence in the importance of democracy and the relationship between voting and changing our lives. we have to look are work on that. they let people freeze in thighs apartments pause they're trying to freeze them out. >> i just want to add and that's what we talk about the political structure, we need independent canned stkats the tune at the to participate in debates. see, pat quinn refused to give me a debate.

won provide did he tate because i'm different and i'm not wore we political correct. i'm born and raise in the projects on the west side of chicago and had to could havecome -- like everybody else. we had to cover thecome things. so i think one of the solutions is making sure we had to hope primaries. that word independent itself because of the structure. i want to say this and i'm speaking on behalf of what's going on with leadership right now because you know believe it or not what happened too i

wonned 30 counts down state. i wad more problems with my own people than err one else. and then in chicago when they came together to knock app african-american lady off the ballot. she stood a chance to make a big difference. what they're doing, they're supporting chew we we /* chew we garcia. don't get me wrong, audience it's not about the race i want to make that clear but when you have a voting block like that you need to use it to your advantage. but in fairness, in god tame together to mocked them off the ballot so the system is phreug a role with that. and some of the issues chicago not just for african americans

but there are so many things happening so we need someone who will represent the independents sincerely. >> to have our debates we have to take our debates to the street. and i think we have to organize people to participate because they're never going to let us know. the only way we'll be in is we change where in is. >> i was going to take this to getting people voting. because voter turnout is not good. and the number of people that aren't participating are particularly the younger you are the less like will you are to participate. i red some california data just

the other day, that had the 18 and 19 year olds someone quoted as saying more 18 year olds than 19 kwraoerdz got arrested than voted last year. that's just horrifying. when you're trying to change the issues of poverty. one of the top causes of the offeitherty believe is a birth of a child. people are who incredibly overwhelmed their life already it's hard to coo them to vote and srot when they don't see anything happening when your voting. voting is the way to show up and other forms of 'tis paeulgs he have to be able to lift up the voice. host: i think /* i think that young people don't

vote because they are not stupid. i think they don't vote -- [applause] >> i think they don't -- what i really think they're saying to us is you have not put something in place where my voice can be exrested and heard. i think that there are lots of people who don't vote because nothing transforms. so i think we have to focus on finding ways for people to make voting something that you do poos et he going to transform the world. we have to teach people to be political in ways that allows them to stand up and participate in what we're trying to do which is to change what this political system looks like. and i must say, i know that there's this notion that black people and latino people and white people are poor because we

have babies. we are not poor because we have babies, we're poor because we have not been led into a system to function. even if you don't have a baby even if you don't have a baby, if you can't read, can't go to school, if you're not part of it, if you stand on the street corner long enough, there isn't that much to do which is why we built this project. you will get pregnant. [applause] joan blades: i agree with you about everything you've said. the basic story of a huge number of people that have baseball out of the middle class when they have babies -- i'm saying that we have people entering it in a

way that is growing. our growing population of not middle-class in poverty is a huge problem. we want to have everybody become middle class. we have a huge bias against mothers in the workplace. and against single mothers in particular. joan blades: i love you. i just a want to blame our social crisis on babies. joan blades: if you have a bias against mothers, you have a bias against babies. $.75 to the equally qualified men's dollar. women have babies, and that goes up to 18. that is one of the things we have to credit. we don't hate mothers. at least, most of us don't. i mean, we've got how many mothers here?

how many people have mothers? that's kinda it. [laughter] paul johnson: the mom issue. i'm clearly pro-choice on the mom issue. here is what i would tell you on the poverty issue that seems to make sense to me. i think the solution is symbiotic mutualism. a recognition that we are not really divided into parties. i watch what is happening with the tea party movement which has been mainly co-opted by the republican party. the message seems to be one that the real problem is government. the government has created the problems that we have and what we need to do is remove government and the problems would be fixed. on the other side, the occupy movement which has been in many ways co-opted by the democratic party seems to say that government is not the problem. it's the private sector. the corporate sector. here is my answer. we have become the mightiest nation and we did it through a process that said both of them are wrong. start with government. government played a key role in building our infrastructure and the ability for people to participate. it passed regulations that are very important to congress. the ability for women and minorities to be able to participate has clearly been

helpful to our economy. on the other side, the private sector are creating products that we are shipping around the world. they are changing our quality of life. effectively, both are important. as to give a speech on poverty. i did so. they asked me, how do you fix poverty? nonetheless, i kind of gave us feel to them. i said, in the united states, we like weird people. we have tesla and edison and einstein. it passed regulations that are very important to congress. the ability for women and minorities to be able to participate has clearly been helpful to our economy. on the other side, the private sector are creating products that we are shipping around the world. they are changing our quality of

life. effectively, both are important. as to give a speech on poverty. i did so. they asked me, how do you fix poverty? nonetheless, i kind of gave us feel to them. i said, in the united states, we like weird people. we have tesla and edison and einstein. we talk about how great they are. we tax them. we begin to create a system that pay to educate a whole new group of weird people. if we lose that symbiotic mutualism, i guarantee what will happen to poverty. it will get a lot worse.

we are all sitting in the same rather narrow boat together. the fact that people often times look on the other end of the vote -- of the boat. without recognizing that they are tied together. the business side does the same thing to leaders on the poverty side. recognizing we are connected is the only way to survive this thing. it is the only way to continue what has become the mightiest nation in the history of the planet. [applause] jackie salit: in a couple of minutes, we will open it to the floor for questions and comments.

the issue of myths around the political system and the cause of social crisis, it has been touched on by a number of you in your comments. could you each tell us, what do you think is a myth that needs to be busted in order to break down some of these barriers that we are talking about? what is a myth you would like to see crumble? tio hardiman: one that i would like to see crumble is that you have to have so much money to win political office. because i would like to recommend anybody running for high-level office, go out and get double the signatures you need. not just to make the ballot, but to win the entire race. to me, that is a big myth. television networks, radio networks, the media. they keep pushing the fact that if you don't have big money, you cannot win. we've had examples of some people -- rahm emanuel has $30 million and is running against

troy garcia. so it can be done. no matter what the critics may say. the gop continues to try to undermine president barack obama. i'm not saying he's the best man in the world, but he's the president. they continue to try to undermine his leadership. i would is leave it at that because i'm kind of angry about the way they've done that. the reality of it is this. either you respect the president, that is the bottom line. we keep going outside the boundaries of what we think is right, showing racism still

exists as we know it does. don't get me wrong. we know it exists but you guys are living under the gop right now and they don't care how they show it. all up front. covert is one thing and over does another thing. -- overt is another thing. [applause] paul johnson: two myths i would like to debunk. i find it absolutely fascinating that the leadership inside the gop are intent on making certain people know that they do not like the president of the united eights. that is interest -- united states. that is interesting all by itself. part of it is driven by the myth that they really are that interested in the policy side of the equation as opposed to the power side of the equation.

who has the majority and who wants the majority? the senate will set up to be the firewall, they said, in the beginning years to make certain that there was a more stable response to what might happen politically. but what has happened is that because they are not just running for election every six years, they want to control the majority -- they run for election every two years. it creates an inability for that firewall to work. one myth that we have to break down is that they are not in it for the policy. they are in it for the power and the public intuitively understands that. this has been perpetuated in arizona on a daily basis. people that register as independents do so because they are either apathetic or ignorance. that is their view. they don't recognize it is an affirmative statement about what they care about and that's why

people are registering as independent or nonpartisan. they have given up on the existing political system and they believe there has to be another way. lenora fulani: one myth that i would like to totally eradicate. under the current system, if you vote, you can make a difference. [applause] because the issue isn't just simply voting. it has a lot to do with what you are voting for. what the parties represent, what the people represent. and people get beat up so much all the time around not going to the polls and voting. but in some ways, i think it's important to recognize that when people keep voting and the same things happen, it turns them off to politics, power, anything. i was thinking that people are

smart. you don't vote unless you give a real and actual alternative. you play into the hands of the people that take the vote and do nothing. the other thing that i just want to say is that poverty is self-perpetuating. that it is personal. even in segregation, i don't think that we self segregate. i think we have been segregated. people don't even think they can live next door to each other unless you are of some elite class. neighborhoods are organized in that way and that keeps able from knowing who the other is. people are not responsible in this country for being poor. the country, the nation has a responsibility for doing something about poverty. i think politically, we have a responsibility. i feel like we have a responsibility for doing something about poverty and the way that it looks for everybody is we have fight against poverty.

we didn't create it. nobody said you want to live off of fifth avenue or would you rather live in the most rundown inaccessible community in the city? and people say, i think i will take the latter. we ended up there because of the consequences of history and lack of political support from the people that run the city and country. [applause] joan blades: so many good myths have already been put out there. i think the one i am most focused on right now is about the other. the other being kind of dimwitted. the other being mean-spirited. the other being callous.

and the good news that if you take the time for the kind of space that allows for listening, the conversations could be listening. even these people, how can you do that? most of the people get into whatever role they are playing. it is a good place. i'm sorry. i just don't want to go there but i think it is true of the vast majority of people throughout the spectrum. and how do we start opening things up so that we start benefiting from the richness of our views fused together and our energy put together. jackie salit: i will open the floor up to you. we will get some house lights and microphones on the other end of the aisle. i asked my panelists here to

join us in this discussion. sir? >> i have a statement that i would like to make. i am part of cic a, the community for independent community action. we must continue to organize on the grassroots level and that nonpartisan and open primaries is a must if we want to commit to true democracy. we know for a fact that the democratic party has taken our votes for granted and have sold us out. and that the republicans are only going to let us in if we are willing to come in through the back door. i want to thank dr. newman and dr. fulani. our children cannot grow unless they are first taught to develop. i want to personally thank dr.

fulani for giving me the opportunity to grow. [applause] you see, i have two degrees. and i still find it hard to find a job. and i thought that with all my education and all my knowledge that things would be a little bit easier. but i am still a person that was brought up in poverty. it's something that i had to realize and i thank dr. fulani for giving us the tools to empower us. more importantly, i want to say that i'm so great old to be here

in this room this morning with a number of movers and shakers that are thinking independently. thank you so much. >> my name is bob perls and i'm a former new mexico state representative. iran for congress and for about 13 years, spent or 10 hours a day campaigning and walking door-to-door much like the mayor discussed. and all of that activity of mine, i will change my registration to independent. [applause] and hopefully provide some leadership for this movement back in new mexico because it's so important. my question for this group

because it's been a fascinating discussion, it is really difficult to talk to folks about how you make the connection between the disconnect of what they want to see in policy and actual changes in all of these process things that we talk about. whether if it's instant voter runoff, top two, public financing. nonpartisan districting. i want to hear each of you tick off if you could pass one thing in the state legislature or one thing through referendum that would change and empower independents and the conversation, what would you like to see happen? lenora fulani: i would like to see nonpartisan elections because it is so critical. the way that you teach people is not a talking activity. put an independent on the ballot and have them work on the campaign. have them participate in the

grassroots activity of trying to support an independent. send them to a debate that they can't get into. let them learn how to -- [indiscernible] it is like the best lesson in the world because they are having that experience and they are shocked. because this, after all, is a democracy. paul johnson: mine would be nonpartisan elections, eliminating the subsidies for political parties, making sure all candidates are treated equal regardless of how they are registered. if i were to give you my second one, i don't like the existing structures in the legislature. the fact that they meet in caucuses and that those caucuses

are partisan, they stymie good ideas and conversation. it will be a nonpartisan basis. tio hardiman: basically, i concur. i won't repeat what i agreed with already. joan blades: lots of changes. yes. jackie salit: thank you. ditto to everything that was presented here. going to one of the points that dr. fulani made earlier about not voting in the judgment call so many people are making.

the reason i like a lot of these proposals including the focus on primary reform is that right now, the voters are related to the things that happens last in the political process. we have to change the definition and the meaning of what choice is. rather than being a passive consumer at the end of the assembly line to being an active creator of the choices that are getting made. that is one of the reasons why i think primaries are important. >> i am an independent leader. i live in harlem. i did grow up poor in this country. i want to say thank you for convening this conference. it's important we continue to do this work. i like the question about what myths because one of the ones i would like to bust up is that america is the greatest country in the world. america needs to deal with its history, its origins, we need to reorganize how we like to think about ourselves. when you say you are great all the time, that means you won't

take any kind of reflective stock of how you got to where you got. wiping out the native americans, enslaving african-american people, and continuously oppressing and locking up latin american people because they want to come here, those are not great things. [applause] we need to get real with ourselves and get honest and we can reorganize how we are together. what we call revolutionary conversations because they are hard conversations that we don't want to have with each other. i do appreciate this conference and all the dialogue and conversation that's going on here.

i did work on dr. fulani's 1988 campaign where we had to get 1.5 million signatures to get her on the ballot. you get in the grassroots and you knock on the doors and you talk to people. you learn something about where you are, who you are, and what we need to do. get involved. get activated. talk to open primaries. it's a solid tactic that we can organize around and create dialogue around these issues. enjoy the conference. it you all look beautiful. thank you to our leaders. >> my name is jason olson and i am part of the independent voting network. i want to say thank you very

much for hosting us again. it's wonderful coming out here and seeing so many amazing faces in the auditorium. the myth that i would like to explode is that the world just is the way it is and there is nothing that ordinary people can do about it. i think that this grouping of people right here shows that no matter what the odds are, there is something we can do about it and i'm very happy to be part of that with all of you. i was wondering, for folks that maybe this is your first time to one of our gatherings -- how has this conversation impacted you? how will you take away from meeting various folks here as you continue to approach the various reform efforts and work that you do in your lives? tio hardiman: how the conference has impacted me as i see the makings of a major independent voters movement. and i want to play a role. i see it. that's all i can say for right now because i believe in movements, ok?

i think about nelson mandela's life and i think about the power of a person to make a difference. and nelson mandela's life pretty much embodies that. a movie called "kill the messenger" on his life, they exposed the cia and the government after they introduced crack cocaine into the black communities. they say he committed suicide because he shot himself in the head twice and he never got another job once he exposed the story. i'm just saying there are a lot of things that have taken place in the history of the country that we need to bring to the table so you can get past those issues. i have been inspired. you can see that by the way i talk. paul johnson: the lesson i take from this, it's always

fascinating to me. i come from a state with a very conservative legislature. it's not even a fair word. often times people who are on the extreme, our goal is to bring them back to the center. it which is a leftward movement. in other states, you see the exact opposite where the democratic party has overwhelming support and they stifled out voices as well. it often times is not an issue between right and left. it's simply an issue of do you have a voice or do you not have a voice? what is probably the single most important thing in the movement is that is not going to be carried off by a single state doing what they want to do. it has to be a national lever. it there has to be a national group of people coming together to talk about its importance. you will always find differences, and you will begin to find that area where we have common ground and move it forward. [applause] joan blades: and what reinvigorations we can have to

have people showing up in the polls and the off ears. -- off years. that the leaders are really working for us. i don't have the answers to that right now. it is exploration. let's move on. there are truly viral moments. i sometimes call it a goldilocks moment where it is not too cold or not too hot. it's just right and this can take off. you can talk about the slow build. it is a punctuated equilibrium. things can slip.

will the independent movement be part of helping it slipped in the way i am dreaming? i don't know. >> i'm from new hampshire and a longtime activist. i think most people are many people don't vote because they are not inspired by the candidate. the wall street two-party crap trap. they have to bring there to the polls -- their clothespins to the polls. i think we are ready for a voters revolution. 10 years ago, people looked at me strange and now everybody says yes.

we have to flush congress. they are full of -- never mind. i question is, do you think we need to run independent candidates for local, state, and federal elections? the time is now. tio hardiman: i concur. i agree with you. i definitely agree. joan blades: right now, my experience with the political processes that throwing in another candidate is sometimes helpful. but it doesn't go to the core of our divisions. that is where my real interest is. so what going to cause the flip? i'm just putting that out there as my question.

jackie salit: we will run this discussion until 12:30 p.m. until we break for lunch. i want to ask people to keep your statements are your questions concise. >> thanks to each of you for leading this discussion. americans actually hate american democracy and i think that's part of our problem. i would like to thank mr. johnson for the image of the canoe. my name is philip. i'm from new york. i'm homeless. i take from what you've said that if i think -- if i sink you sink. i have suffered long-term homelessness because -- despite a college degree.

i want you to make homelessness and issue across the nation because we are seeing increasing criminalization of homeless . i would like to throw the issue to the national party that this issue becomes important to the party across the country. thanks very much. >> i think homelessness is poverty. i mean, i organize homeless people all the time. it is a very important part of what it is that we're doing. it's critical and what i teach