visit the web site press.org/institute. on behalf of members worldwide i want to welcome you to the luncheon and also like to welcome the c-span and public radio audiences. follow the action on twitter #npclunch and the public attends the lunches. applause you hear is not evidence of a lack of journalistic objectivity. ofafter the guest speech we will have a question and answer period and i will ask as many questions as time permits. the head table guests include guests of the speaker as well as working journalists who are club members. let me introduce them to you right now. i would ask each person to stand briefly as names are announced. from the audience's right

joseph morton. washington bureau chief for the omaha world herald and national press club membership secretary. john rosen berg, strategic advisor on african policy. christopher demuth fellow at hudson institute and a guest of our speaker. angela keene a bloomberg news white house correspondent and former president of the national press club. maggie jaffey assistant to our speaker and her guest today. donna, reporter for u.s.a. today. and a former president of the national please club. skipping over the speaker for a moment. doris margolis, president of editorial associates health and science communications and the npc member who arranged today's

program. thank you doris. michelle carter. vicevice president for worldwide speaker's group and a guest of our speaker. paul, national security reporter for u.s. news and world report and a third generation member of the national press club. joel whitaker. editor and publisher of cane's beverage news daily and the former secretary of the national press club. ayaan hirsip.ali is an aah tore and former muslim and outspoken critic of the religion she renounced. the latest book "hair tick, why islam needs a reformation now" possitys that ordinary muslims are ready for a change. in a recent essay she points to rising u.s. immigration from countries where many hold views

that americans would see as extreme. she wrote people with views such as these pose a threat to us all not because those who hold them will all turn to terrorism, most will not. but such attitudes imply a readiness to turn a blind eye to the use of violence and intimidation. hirsi ali was raised in a strict muslim family in sew mailia and survived female genital mutilation and a civil war. her family immigrated to saudi arabia and ethiopia and later settled in kenya. after her father arranged for her to marry a distant cousin in 1992 she fled to the netherlands and was granted asylum and later citizenship. in 2003, she was elected to dutch parliament. one year layer, she and theo

van gogh collaborated on a film critical of islam's treatment of women. van gogh was assassinated and hirsi ali received death threats she moved to america in 2007 and obtained citizenship in 2013 and cofounded the a.h.a. foundation. a fellow at harvard's center for science and international affairs and a visiting fellow at the american enterprise institute. the topic of her talk today is clash of civilizations, isis islam, and the west. ladies and gentlemen please inme in a warm national press club welcome for ayaan hirsi ali. [applause]

ayaan: thank you john, for having me back again at the national press club. i want to start by acknowledging chris demuth the former president and among so many things that he has done, he route me to america. thank you. [applause] ayaan: when i was last year about 4 1/2 years ago and chris was here i was up invited to come and speak to you on the proposition islam is a religion of tolerance. i don't know how far back your memory extends. but you will forgive me for

enjoying this moment that i back then took the position that islam was not a religion of tolerance, it was not a religion of peace. of course, in october 25 of 20150, that2010the day i was here i acknowledged that there are millions and millions of muslims who are peace loving and who he are tolerant. but i was confident that islam as a creed was neither peaceful nor tolerant. in 2010 i published a book and there is one chapter in there

where i acknowledge that okay, i was born into islam and through an evolution an intellectual journey, i was able to shed religion. not just islam. and in my youthful enthusiasm i thought that oh if you get liberated from hellfire you will join me in my atheism. and in 2010 i was disappointed that ex-muslims, the ex-muslims that i interacted with and i encountered were not willing to join me in my atheism. and i thought well, what the heck, if you want another

religion it might be possible i was kind of thinking the way americans think there is a problem there must be a solution. and if the problem was i want to believe in a god in 2010, i thought well there are so many gods, there is a benign god, the christian god. and back then i was promoting the idea if you are a peace-loving tolerant muslim and you want to be religious why not just convert to christianity. and i write a very naive letter to the pope saying why don't you capture the hears and minds of all these millions of people who are spiritual in search of redemption. unfortunately, today i have to admit to you that the pope did not follow my advice, there is

no program, catholic program that wants to capture the hearts and minds of muslims. if it is there, i don't know about it. we have not -- they have not involved me in it. it is five years ago nearly five years ago and i have come to the conclusion as we all grow and as we all evolve that you don't shed a religion that easily. it is not like taking off a shirt and wearing another shirt. people are attached to their traditions. they are attached to their religions. i'm here to say that i have mature and i have learned and i have come across more and more muslims who instead of converting to something else, instead of desserting their religion would actually like to

reform it. and that brings me back to the statement if islam -- is islam a religion of peace and tolerance? in 2010, it was a matter of debate. it was still open for debate. and i got questions from this audience and we went back and forth and i remember saying well okay, dear journalists why don't you go ahead and research it? but today i feel that there is a change. there is a shift in opinion toward my side and i don't want to claim that triumph. it is not -- if you have changed your mound, if you have come to -- your mind, if you have

come to accept the position that islam is not a religion of peace or tolerance, it is not because i have persuaded you. it is because events may have persuaded you. i just want to run through a list of those events just to highlight them. the arab spring. some people want to think of it as the arab winter. i honestly think that is open for debate because i think of it as a spring. something happened there that is not what many of you expected. it wasn't sort of a triumphant we want a liberal democracy along the lines of the american constitution. it wasn't the american revolution. it wasn't a french revolution. it wasn't a prague revolution.

what happened was what happened to me in 2002 which is you simply start asking questions. this person, this entity, this institution that claims absolute authority who the heck is this, who the heck are they? and as they go through some countries, doing that and some countries did not but the central question and big question mark that sticks out in the heads of those people who are demonstrating was i i'm not going to allow myself to submit to something that i don't want to submit to. and if you are an egyptian and you say mr. mubarak who are you, why do you want absolute thorauthority over me? you simply going to have the same question if you are wife to a husband, why should i o e-bay you unconditionally? if you are are a teacher and a student, that relationship why do you have the last word?

may i ask some questions? and this takes you to the next level. because in islamic context everybody is going to say that is what god wants you do. that is what the prophet muhammad instructed and it is only a matter of time before before you say well, maybe i don't agree with god. maybe i don't agree with the prophet muhammad. so the arab spring even though it is now dismissed as a winter because we had false expectations but if you had this type of expectation you are going to still see it it as a spring. it is a remarkable development. the second point coming from that arab spring are the elections in tunisia and egypt. it seems to me that there is enough evidence in tunisia that

there is a substantial body of the population who when they were presented with an agenda for political change based on sharia law, based on secular law, however, imperfect we have seen the struggle and will continue to see it that in tunisia, a majority of tunisians made the choice to go with a secular government. it is fragile, it is not yet there but it is something that we need to note. in my view, i think if we can do anything, we he need to help -- we need to help tunisia survive. but we also saw the election in egypt. and in the first instance people supported and subscribed to a

government based on sharia law, devine law. it was one year old when, again many egyptians inspired to make that change. they still had that energy, made a choice between two very bad options. sharia law that came about through the ballot box versus back to secular military law. and a meaningful number of egypt went with with secular law. then we saw the civil wars. iraq syria yemen libya.

or if you want to be more accurate sectarian wars. a proxy war between sunnies saudi arabia and shia iraq. in 2010, it was a completely did i rent context -- different context. we had not seen boko haram. do you remember the hashtag bring back our girls? the capture of mali. it was unthinkable in 2010 that the likes of al-qaeda would take over a country as large as mali. and yes together with the government of france and the u.s. but with france in the lead al-qaeda was kicked out and something, some measure of order is restored but islamic extremism made the point.

and, of course, this is what keeps us all awake the proclamation of a man named al-baghdadi. it if you want to say it is a religion of peace or tolerance and could be on this side or that side. and in response is the obama administration's pledge to degrade, destroy and chase to the gets of hell that particular. and even more shocking and disturbing the strome of volunteers, individual volunteers from 80 something countries to the call of al-baghdadi including many women and even pore disturbing

including to citizens from the liberal west from the u.s., from france, from britain. so in 2010 when we were discussing and debating is islam a religion of peace and tolerance i could say, you know, go ahead you dear journalists a and to your research. but today, with all of these events unfolding before your very eyes, i don't think a day goes by without a headline about what is done in the name of islam that is even more shocking. the latest good friday was in kenya, i grew up in kenya. the man who masterminded that atrocity was a refugee in kenya. he went to kenya to university. he grew up in relative comfort at least if you lived in kenya

you would be envious of his position. he went to saudi arabia and got radicalized. and today, that is what he does for a living. masterminding terrorist actions in kenya. country that welcomed him. youle only appreciate this if you are a somali because if you are a somali living in a country of perpetual in a context of perpetual civil war the first place that you go to in the hope of a better future is not really the u.s.a. or the west it is kenya. and so there are thousands if not millions of somalis who are enjoying something relatively better than what they would have had at home and it is to me personally not only a deep shock of what happened but a sort of shame and embarrassment that our neighbor that has given us

refuge that we repay them in this way and i would like somalis wherever they are to stand up and denounce this in a specific manner. but i don't want to hold you up. you understand that i still hold the position that islam is not a religion of peace. who notnot yet. not yet. and that is the evolution in my own thinking. of course, we all know that millions of muslims are desperate for peace and tolerance. i thought that in 2010. i still think that. my encouragement for muslims to join christianity i don't think that is going to work. so the question is then what needs to happen? i know that if you operate in the world of policy either as a

policy maker policy adviser or a policy observer, you have a list of measures that you weigh in on and this will be military options. of course, we have to destroy and defraud and chase to to the gates of the hell isis. i get that. we all get that. just do it efficiently and do it fast. of course, we understand that there is an economic equation. we understand that there might be something to gain through diplomacy but you the ultimately because this is a creed and ideology that one-fifth of humanity believes in we cannot get away from the reality that there is something within islam inherent in islam that inspires, in cites

and mobilizes millions of people to engage in what our president calls nonviolent -- he calls it violent extremism. so then what is the answer? if you come to my position four and a half years later, if weeing aweaccept the position islam is not a religion of peace then what happens? what to you do? i struggled with this question for a long time and thought all right, instead of pretending that there are several islams, let's accept that there are are three sets of muslims or rather several sets of muslims. of course, you can have as many sets of muslims as you like we are looking at one fifth of humanity but i settle for three. the first set i would describe as mekka muslims.

when the prophet muhammad founded islam he was going from door to door telling the arab tribes, please give up all of your gods and unite under one god. and in those days he was preaching charity. he was preaching how manty. he was preaching peace. maybe that is where the islamist pass thing comes from. the mekka muslims. and there are muslims and i think that is the majority of muslims who when when they reflect on their religion wants to follow the pro muhammad and the koran in the mecca period. then there is a second set of muslims. muhammad makes an emgreation from mecca to ma dethat. he backs a war lord and a politician. a legislator, a leader. and there is a lot to admire him

about during that period, but in 2015 if you want to apply muhammad's moral guidance then you are are going to end up with something called islamic state or al-qaeda or boko haram or all of the anomalies we think are anomalies to islam but actually in hair rent. and then we have a small group of people, individuals in islam todayion i didn't see them in 2010, i see them now who are saying there is something wrong within our own scripture. o our scripture an example of the pro prophet muhammad that provides too much inspiration to too many bad people, the medina set is of muslims and what can we do about it and they are struggling to think about a change. and here is is the interesting

thing. if we move the debate to ok islam needs something maybe not an exodus of muslims out of islam but something else, a reformation, christianity, a great religion went through a reformation. judaism went through a reformation. if islam needs to go through a reformation then to the muslim reformers what is it that needs to change? when you turn on the television and you feel yourselves inspired and heartened by the words of the current president of egypt and you know how he came to power, and he says in the thousand something year old university in egypt most prestigious he looks at the clerics and tells them we need a revolution a revolution in religion. what does he mean?

what does he want? i don't know. i just know that the very fact that he is doing that is new and incrediblyincredibly brave. and i have five amendments that i think the leadership can maying. i don't expect them to. i don't think any change is going to come from them but hey let's give them the benefit of the doubt. but i think i know what mr. al-sisi is looking for and it is five amendments. muslims, those of us who were born into islam we need to change our attitude toward koran. the document must be read in its context, accept that it is the work of human hands. maybe divinely inspired but the work of human hands and muhammad

as a moral guide after mecca is really problematic and i'm being p.c. number two, a second amendment i would like to make in islam growing up as a young muslim girl woman child, we invest far more in life after death than in life before death. and there we need a change in priority. number three sharia law. when applied it manifests itself under the kingdom of saudi arabia islam, the republic of iran and the worst manifestation the islamic state founded by al-baghdadi. if you want to understand the

worst manifestation of what that looks like i would like you to revisit the images of the afghani woman who is accused of banning the koran. she did not ban the koran. show was accused of banning the koran and some random man calls and says she banned the koran and a mob of men come out and lynch her. that is committing wrong. then jihad who willry war. that should be replaced with holy peace. if these pave amendments are made, and given the time that we have, i can't delve into every one of them but i do get into depth within the book, i think that we will have a separation of religion from politics in islam. i think that we in the west because that is obviously the last question what kind we in the west do to help this process

of reformation if anything, i would say we have to side with those individuals and those groups who are trying to bring about that kind of change. this is my five cents commitment to it. and now i welcome your questions. [applause] john: thank you so much. so reforming major world religion in such a fundmental way as you described seems to be a huge undertaking. do you view yourself as someone who is planting the seed for change that will happen maybe decades down the road centuries down the road or you think that there is some reformation some that can take hold and happen much more quickly?

ayaan: well, first of all, i want to say, of course, it is going to take decades. this is a process that could take very long. i won't be around when it happens. i wish i were. but i won't be around when it happens. do i see any hope, yes. i will give you a few examples that have crossed the attention of the press. if you are living within saudi arabia and you're living in saudi arabia, you must have heard of this man kashkari who starts to tweet of his doubts of the prophet. because of his technology he is able to share not only with saudis but anyone who can read and write and has access to the internet in the islamic word

what his doubts are. that is new, revolutionary. the internet is one, the internet is to islam, what the printing press was to the christian reformation. number two, there is an urban elite that has, you know, if you're a, in tunisia today, and your source of income was because of tourism, museums, the beaches, everything, you have a vested interest in immediate and dire to keep up the tourist industry. all across what you see in the middle east is an urban elite that is muslim, may be pious in various degrees but are invested in not having sharia law applied because if sharia law is applied, they're out of a job. they can't put bread on the table. very important to learn that.

there was an urban elite during the christian reformation that had an interest in reforming the church. and finally, i see states, all of them, despotic, trust me, but these despotic states that before the arab spring found refuge only in repression are coming to understand that they have to take islamic extremism head on. i have mentioned egyptian president but the government of the u.a.e., the government of saudi arabia, declared the muslim brotherhood as an entity, i mean if you know anything about the muslim brotherhood they want sharia law but they want to get it by peaceful means. and then there are groups that don't want it by peaceful means. but these government, the king of jordan, you name it, they all are feeling threatened by islamic extremism.

and so, the, the time is ripe, the time is ripe to say, maybe now is when a muslim reformation will take hold and most importantly of all, there are individuals who are literally risking their lives, literally risking their lives to get this done. all of these combine again into a wonderful opportunity we should not miss. >> is there a, an individual out there whose voice could rise above other vices and be heard to to move forward? or is there somebody that needs to emerge down the road that can make that happen? the other part of the question is, what can americans do or non-muslims do to advance this cause? >> because we live in a world of

order we think some individual is going to come and we're going to rally around this individual. i think if that is the line of thinking you take you will be disappointed. maybe, who knows. some charismatic individual will rise up and just have all muslims subscribe to a new and reformed islam, hopefully with these five amendments. but i just, i really think in the world we live in, it is not going to happen like that. i also want to say the nature of islam, there is no hierarchy. it is flat. all men are equal before god. now, you can see that as an advantage but you can also see it as a disadvantage because the way the islamic thing is done, you have a choice, only between obeying the leader, the imam or the mullah or the cleric, or complete anarchy. in the modern world and after having seen grass roots movements, i personally think it is better to invest in something more like a grass roots movement. this is all new. it is very young. and that is what the west can do.

we candice crime nate who is really interested in meaningful change versus who is pretending to change things. so, when i have two individuals before me, i debated a woman linda, and she sold herself and her program to the united states of america and the american government as a leader of change. as we debate, she thinks islam is perfect. if you think it is perfect, out.

we need to talk to the individuals within islam who are saying it is not perfect. and that's a beginning. and from there, you ask the question, if it is imperfect then what, what do we need to do? and bring them together and then hopefully take it from there. many of them are very, very advanced and not all of them are ex-muslims. in fact most of them are not ex-muslims. some of them are clerics. some of them are in government. for me, i would say, what we can do and we have a vested interest in that, is to say, let's empower this group of people and

go about it the way we went about the soviet union. we're dealing with a ideology, a political ideology. it is religious in many ways but it is not a problem, a, that is new to america and b, that america can not defeat. it is that we choose not to do it. >> you made reference to isis and said that's a threat that needs to be dealt with quickly efficiently. what do you think of the u.s. approach on isis and the obama administration has said no boots on the ground? they want to deal in the way they're address addressing now without committing u.s. troops. is that the right approach. >> wow. i think our approach to the middle east today, and i just want to use the most politically correct word that i can come up with now, it is incoherent. let me just give you an example of that incoherence. we're fighting isis. alongside iran. saudi arabia and the other sunni governments are our allies.

they're waging proxy war in iraq, in syria, in yemen and we have, we're sporting both of them but we're also opposing them. we're having nuclear negotiations with iran. iran is out there saying death unto america, death to israel. it's not, it's not that i, our, our policies and our approach to the middle east right now is incoherent. the middle east is in a crisis. what was called the islamic civilization is in a crisis.

unfortunately millions of muslims find themselves in the grip of islamic extremism. i think, we need to take a step back. we need to review our relationship with the middle east. we need to take this in a more coherent way. i don't think i can influence that. but whatever we do, whatever the next presidential candidate does, whatever the next administration does, whatever congress does, you will have a number of policies on the table that americans are comfort comfortably with. there will be military diplomatic. what is uncomfortable with islamic extremism, we're dealing with an ideology. i still think we haven't made any effort to invest in persuading, myriads of people that a vision to it organize

society around maria law is the wrong way to go -- sharia law. that we have an alternative. if you look at what the islamic extremists are say about america in their writings to the muslim people. it is stereotypes like america is greedy. america just wants to come and take your oil. america is supporting despots to feed their consumerism. what we don't tell or don't highlight, and i wish we would is what america really is about. in covering isis, and you look at the number of people that islamic state beheaded or killed, we saw the journalists. it was easy for the leaders of isis to tell the muslim world these guys were spies so they deserved to be beheaded. there was a young woman from arizona, who went there, probably against the advice of her parents, to help the people of syria and they killed her.

that is something that is an aspect about america that i would like to advertise to the rest of the world, to say, how many american volunteers are there across the world selflessly, trying to help people in turmoil? how much money do we spend? you know, a lot of americans will think that would be boasting this and that but that is america. that is something about america that local people know. and that's the story that we don't tell them. when we have a confrontation within america, about the situation of the gays, the

blacks, female emancipation, all that in an open society, people will only take one side of the story and apply it to the american stereotype which is monsters. what our government fails to do, and what our society fails to do, we're the most philanthropic nation in the world. that our youth are the most generous. they don't only give money. they give their time and maybe even their lives. that we're the most innovative world. i spent some time with silicon valley people. they go all over the place trying to innovate and invent the solutions to the problems of water shortage. the middle east is facing, it is not the sectarian war. that is one problem. it is a big problem but pretty

soon there will be faced with a water shortage problem. if that is solved, who is doing it? it is americans. i think we need to sell ourselves. it is not selling but to inform. it is a campaign of information, to inform ordinary muslims what america is really about, and not stereotypes. >> you referenced in your speech the obama administration's use of the word, violent extremism to describe the threat. questioner asks, why you think that the administration wants to stick to that terminology? obviously you do not. but if the goal of the administration is to not encourage discrimination against the millions of peaceful muslims out there, is that really a bad goal? >> well, first of all, it is this administration. it was the last administration and the administration before that and administration before

that and probably most of western governments which is we, the united states of america and the rest of the western world, we are not at war with islam. there are people who are using islam as a religion and taking the lead and who are at war with us. that is a different story. but we're not at war with them. what the american government wants to do over and over again is convince muslims, whether they're here again, or abroad we're not at war with you. if we were, the circumstances would be very different. i'm going to leave that to your imagination. we're not at war with islam. and i think it demonstrates a sense of restraint. we can be and we're not. here is what frustrates me. we're not seeing necessary reciprocity. and i'm not talking about ordinary people. but allies, like the government of saudi arabia. we give them a finger. they take a whole hand.

analyze the negotiations with iran. the more we give, the more they take. and i think in this kind of negotiating context, you would want to see the united states united states of america put its foot down. it doesn't mean to go to war but negotiate differently. i don't care if the president calls it violent extremism or, you know, mixed salad. i don't care. that is how governments operate anyway. it is a whole bunch of things we're supposed to agree to. it is in the nature of democratic government to euphemisms for controversial issues. i don't care what he calls it. what i care about is the policy outcomes. if our president picks up the

phone and calls the kingdom of saudi arabia about a gentleman who is going to get a thousand lashes and he ends up being lashed, then i think that at the most powerful country in the world, we are being taken for a ride. these negotiations about whether iran is going to have a bomb or not, again, i will leave that to the experts. but the way it's going i feel like we're just giving too much. and a lot of people think it is just this president. i'm actually pessimistic. i don't know if it is just this president. it could be the next and the next. it is not, if western society finds itself in big trouble, it's not because islam is stronger or destructive, or because china is strong or destructive.

it is because we're no longer confident in what we are about and what we in. dbelieve in. [applause] >> some much your critics said your criticism of islam crosses the line. so the council on american islamic relations, about a year ago, when they wrote brandeis university said thaw practiced religious prejudice and that honoring you would be similar to awarding white supremacists or anti-semites. brandeis, withdrew plans to give you an honorary degree a year ago. how do you respond to this group's suggestion that you're criticism of islam is amounting to prejudice and intolerance? >> i just want to highlight that they have a hidden again today and that hidden agenda has been made manifest by a woman called romani. who was a journfallist for the

"the washington post." and she wrote a wonderful essay on the honor brigade which the council of american islamic relations is one. and, she wrote this in january of this year, 16, january. i like you all to read it. you know how it all works. i think it is unfortunate that brandise submitted to this. that they caved in. but it is not only brandise. it is governments. it is the press. it is, the so many of our institutions who have been taken in by the honor brigade. as the press community, i really would urge you to take that essay and read it because it gives a wonderful answer to the question you are all asking. why is it so hard to criticize islam? read romani, "washington post," 16 january this year.

>> ok, you have said that the muslims are responsible for majority of violence in the world. 70% was one percentage quote. i think that is maybe that changed. in any event it was responsible for majority of violence. this questioner says, does this excuse the u.s. government in contributing at all to the violence in the middle east and questioner cites the iraq invasion? so has the west played a role in increasing violence? >> see, the thing about the iraq invasion is, if i want to use the iraq invasion and iraq policies as an excuse for the emergence of isis and for al qaeda and for the crisis that

islam is in, then that's one thing. if you want to use it the iraq invasion in that way, then i will take a person who is putting iraq invasion on the table right now to discuss how can we stop isis and islam extremism, just wants to shut down debate. of course there are policies american policies, european policies, western policies. and i really think that it is extremely important and it happens all the time, to analyze our own policies, rework them, review them, and change them but, i have been following this since 2001. what i have seen is, the debate in the united states of america, about its foreign policy is, robust and whichever way you want to pull it, the people of america have a say in it.

the people of china do not have a say in their foreign policy. the in the muslim world, people don't have a say in their domestic or foreign policies. and so, on so forth. please don't allow, don't allow, these despots, when you start to talk about their human rights records and domestic policies records and their foreign policies records, don't allow them to use american and israeli policies as an excuse to change the subject. [applause] >> a couple questioners want to drill down a little more deeply on the ideas you expressed. one says, violence in the name of islam is endemic but where is the problem? is it the religion itself or is it the practice by some of today's muslims? and another questioner says, is,

is islam not only a religion, is it not only a, because of religion but a combination of religion, legal system political system, military philosophy, social system and maybe more? >> pick up heretic, why islam needs reformation now, thank you. >> you mentioned the recent terrible attack. in the united states do you think that there's likelihood of seeing some of those devastating type attacks? or do you think that the homeland security and other governments have largely taken the necessary protections? >> homeland security, the fbi,

the cia, all of our agencies have done a remarkable job remarkable and wonderful job. i really think you need to applaud them. we need to applaud them. we in the united states of america have said we're not going to let this happen again ever. some instances have taken place. there have been, you know, policies that were calling what happened at fort hood in 2009, you know, you have a member of the military who kills other members of the military because he is not loyal to our military but he is loyal to something else. calling that workplace violence. that generates just bad will. it is, we shouldn't have done that. but if you, you know, from 2001 until now, if you evaluate, say we spent trillions and trillions of dollars, not to have an incident like 9/11 ever, happen

here again, but, what kind of a guaranty do we have that it won't happen again? we know that. there is the determination, the will, the enemy has these resources. they tell us what, they try and they try and they try again. and we foil and we foil and we foil every attempt. if they succeed, at one attempt, we, and they, they have done you know, they have never had anything as spectacular as 9/11, we'll be upset and sad. but i'm confident that we're not taking them on, spending all of that money is, we're being reactive. we try something. we try something. we try to stop it. they try something else, we try to stop it. we're not taking them on in the battle of ideas. that is what this book is about. if we bring about public diplomacy as we used to do in the cold war, we engage that way, so more mecca muslims go to our side instead of medina

muslims and join reformists. that is where we really defeat them and it is much evener. -- cheaper. >> we're almost out of time but before i ask the last question i want to remind everyone about upcoming speakers. ban ki-moon, secretary-general of the united nations will speak on april 16th. navy secretary ray mabis will address the club on april 30th. and vince surf, chief internet evangelist for google and a father of the internet will speak on may fourth. i would now like to present our guest with the traditional national press club mug. we've been talking about a lot of heavy things today but when you enjoy a quiet moment, this is a wonderful way to have a beverage. [applause]

>> thank you. >> our final question, i just wanted you, we just have a couple minutes left. you had renounced islam and said you're an atheist. do you think that's where your firmly entrenched or how do you think of your, you know, spirituality evolving from where it has been and where is it going and is this where it is going to stay? >> i think my spirituality is just fine. [laughing] but i just, i just want to take this moment on the question of spirituality to share with you that religions are different. i've been promoting this book now for the last two weeks and you've probably seen my conversation with jon stewart

and others. it, always goes to but is christianity any different from islam? and my observation is yes, christianity is different from islam. judaism is different from islam. these two religions gone through a process of reformation. that will not say that i am converting to them. but i want to make it clear that the christian god in 2015 is different from the muslim god in 2015. and, the worst thing that a christian has ever said to me, the rudest thing that a christian ever said to me, thing that made me most uncomfortable that a christian said to me, i'm going to pray for you. i hope you will be safe. i hope you will be redeemed.

but within my own family and my own community, and, when i say you know what? i'm in doubt about the koran and muhammad and life after death and all that. it is, well you are to die. so i just want to point out that the differences between the religions. you can mockeries at this anty and judaism, as much as you like you can't say a thing about islam. what makes me angry the moral equivalence. the moral equivalence. now religion give us faith in the future, hope in the future and my hope and faith in the future is that one day, one day, islam and muslims will become so civilized and so peaceful and so tolerant, as christian -- and judaism.

i know that is controversial but i will leave it at that. [applause] >> a round of applause for our speaker please. [applause] >> i would like to thank our speaker and our audience and the national institute and broadcast center. if you like a copy of the program or to learn more about the national press club, go to our website, press.org. we are a journey. -- adjourned.

[inaudible] >> on c-span tonight, a look at efforts to stop a growing shortage in the worldwide water supply. and ahead of this correspondence dinner a look back at some of this features given over the years by president bill clinton, george w. bush and barack obama. mod barlow's chair of the nonprofit organization food and water watch. five years ago she was an advocate and helping the u.n. declare water and a basic human right. she broke recently but what she calls a global water crisis. this is one hour 20 minutes.