ahead of such a low-tech response that we are inefficiently using people -- like the "washington post" article where trained divisors were giving out deli line tickets for people trying to get into a tax assistance. we really do have to figure out a migration strategy and the idea is to bring up the people who are really needed. the hope is we can then get people on the things that do matter. it would be a major long-term investment. >> this is what worries me -- i

hear long-term investment. i remember in the 1970's talking to people in the service about technology and the process is so slow -- a design is built on rfp and before it is put out and before it is even completed, the technology is obsolete. how can the service make this transition in a careful way? without getting caught in this trap of holding a system that's already out of date. dave: a couple of things -- i think the irs has done a remarkable job on technology. speed matters. i believe we don't have a long time to wait. the irs has demonstrated its ability to manage technology.

the best example is cataclysms that were accompanying every discussion right up until the filing season vanished when you realize the irs had figured out most of the major problems and had dealt with them again. that said, i think speed matters a lot. this is where partnering between business and government can make a difference both on the service side and i agree with nina and rosemary that not everyone is going to move. you need to think more carefully. i never let go of wanting to solve some of the challenges -- i convinced the treasury and irs late last year to work on an experiment where we can use behavioral economics to prompt taxpayers who might be willing to fudge a little bit to make a choice.

in other words, to actually run a real time experiment to determine whether we could help the irs with a small piece of a very specific goals. i think there are lots of those opportunities out there -- and this can be done on the tax practitioners' side as well. there are many ways to think of interesting ways of innovating against the goals the irs articulated. that's one example. >> let me switch gears a little bit and ask about this compliance issue. i talk to people out there who say taxpayers are getting more aggressive because they know -- what is your sense? are you beginning to see compliance problems?

rosemary: when you see what's happening in response to taxpayers, you have to worry. it's -- you can't really see it. there's enough measure, but we are very worried about that. that is the engine of the revenue projections to the u.s. government. it is high, it is effective and you don't come back after that. we really are worried. we will be doing another estimate now. and as the commissioner said, if we pick up a change, it will be a noticeable change. it is a big worry. it goes to what nina said. this is the heart of the taxpayer effect. nina: only 2% of the trillions

of dollars the irs brings in is directly attributable to enforcement acts. 2%. all the other dollars are coming do because of taxpayers services or the indirect effect of the enforcement action, the perception the irs is going to come out and get you. or that they might find you. it is hard to suss out exactly what the ratio of that is, but we have pulled the numbers over -- before 1998 through today, we were talking about how many collections people they have and how many levees. it is inelastic. it does not matter -- when they went down like this and stop issuing liens and levees -- it doesn't matter recession, the collection activity regardless of your staffing, regardless of

your enforcement, it is stable. i have no explanation for that and that is one of my holy grail, how can i figured out finally? i don't know what the impact is going to be. of us not having a certain amount of auditors. i do know the conversations about the irs being a toothless tiger might have some risk-taking, particularly the population that does the greatest risk-taking. that's the hardest to find. we are going to go after the poor little people who are dear -- deer in the headlights because we can find them but we don't go after the people doing the most aggressive stuff because we can't find them. we don't have the training. when you look at enforcement revenue is $50 billion out of $3

trillion. nina: on the case of tax fraud all the time, one of the things you learn is the breathtaking amount of attempts -- just breathtaking. the perception the service is not holding out against fraud where fraudsters are using the high technology is a very big issue. for the 2%, we have sliced those numbers of thousand ways. it also takes five and six years to resolve a lot of cases. there's an enormous inertia in that data.

corporations put the money in escrow and we get the money in 6 years. that's not where the action is. but the perception and the reality that you are actually protecting them from a breathtaking level, a growing list of fraudulent activity -- eventually you realize how important it is. it is not going after that person's exam. that's a million taxpayers a year. we would like to deal with those taxpayers, but we are not a punishment agency, we are the tax administration and those tax payers are paying high compliance. many are related to our low technology. >> let me ask the policy question you discussed in your presentation. we were talking about all of these expensive and complicated ways to make the system work. is this chewing gum and rubber

bands, as long as the tax code is so complicated and as long as the services being asked to do things with nothing having to do with tax collection? eric: i don't think so. obviously, it costs a lot more to administer a complicated tax code. but the tax code is complicated because we want to do certain things. we want to deliver social programs in a certain way. given that level of complication, we are spending four cents on enforcement for every hundred dollars of revenue that comes in. we can afford to spend more we want to have a tax system that is a social welfare agency and accomplishes those goals. it is just a misdirection of resources.

whether the irs -- how much the irs is capable of doing a better job with more money, that is something my colleagues on the panel can probably address better than me. i have certainly had doubts. certainly with the cuts, they cannot do an adequate job. >> let's give everyone an opportunity to ask a few questions. >> i want to get back to the flip phone. my mother works with the irs. my mother worked with the irs. a service center in philadelphia in 1966. they were doing a major overhaul of the i.t. system and 10 years later, they were done. then they had a state-of-the-art

computer system. for ever since then, that has been the case -- they are always behind in this. when i was at treasury, there was a tax expert with a proven ability to get this kind of stuff done. it seems like they need to do something fundamentally different and maybe you were getting at that. how can they solve this technology problem? >> are you asking me? >> i guess i'm asking all of you. dave certainly. nina: he's not trying to be the leader, but we would like to get into the 21st century and we would certainly like to get out of cobol. i have been privy to some a -- so many conversations over the years that i do feel like the irs is making progress in this area. i think part of the problem is getting people to understand you

are going to have to invest some dollars and you will not see the immediate return on it. in our budgeting environment where you have to show there is no cost to you investing those dollars -- that's just not going to happen. it is a challenge for the irs. i have been privy to all the planning on the aca and one thing i saw that was really different is we had three years to get our act together and deliver something. it is amazing what it can do when it is given that time and is able to put a structure around the planning and having the oversight of contractors etc. our side of it has gone off relatively without glitch.

as opposed to first-time homebuyer program when you get into the middle of the filing season, how do you do that to -- that? as people are filing their return will stop that is part of the thing -- you have to have the lead time. three years is a short lead time -- but you pick it up from there. dave: particularly in government, we get involved in this reality that this is our government works. that is true. the irs has google pay authority and to which one can bring things into the public sector and those who were ready to run things because they knew how it worked. the ones who cannot see the constraint failed nine times out of nine times.

the others were more effective. what i'm about to say is not meant to be criticism of the agency, and this is based on my two years of experience in the private sector, so take it is -- so take it for what it is worth. i work in an industry where innovation happens in the pace of hours, where one can test in an environment a change certainly in the diy space. literally, trying to change things in matter of weeks in a way you can see and control the experiment. the mindset of having to move and innovate quickly is not something that's going to be grafted onto government has an immediate thing. however, bringing people in who understand the limited objective function and who also see problems differently, who are trying to think about solutions, i think it is absolutely critical, and i would propose taking some of the executives

from the irs and exposing them to a different world. that cross pollination would help at the margins. i believe at the margins, that adds up to significant change. we just have to continue to do that process. >> i'm wondering what we can learn from other countries -- this discussion has been very focused on the irs. the united kingdom, for example, just announced they are going to file free system, everything online. approximately two dozen countries do pre-populated returns. do the tax administration systems in europe use computer systems from the 1960's? if not, why can they do it and we can't?

nina: i will take a stab at that one. the irs has had many opportunities in the past to decide whether they were going to do an online account, so we are behind the rest of the country. things that the u.k. and other countries that have repopulated returns, they have a pay-as-you-go system, so they are getting in real time throughout the year, all of the data about withholding and wages and how many hours you are working because they are getting credits based on how many hours you are working and you are dealing with it. they have an amount of information that is coming. one of the ways the uk's going into this return and australia is looking at it is creating these huge, multi agency databases. i don't know that there was an appetite to have the government have all that information in one

repository. that is a little terrifying. i don't think the employers of this country are willing to take on more responsibility other than the withholding, so you convert to a pay-as-you-go which is essential to being able to do this kind of administration. we don't know what the family make-up is. we did a little research to see how many taxpayers could do a plain, vanilla return that don't have a credit involved in it it's actually not a lot of taxpayers. everyone is going to have to tell us something more. what i recommend if you have accelerated information so you can get your wages and maybe you can move back return filing time at the start of the season people could download the information into their software, give it to the preparer,

download on the forms or be archaic like me and printed out and look at the plane tax returns. you can do that and that would be a big advance. dave: i chaired the taxpayer services group for three and a half years. the tax systems and cultural systems in the country that have either return free versions of it are extraordinarily different from ours. nina touched on it -- i will tell a story, it still tickles me every time i think about it -- i was visited by members of the korean administration who were interested in setting up an earned income tax credit for korea. i spent a lot of time extolling the virtues, talking about how it lifted so many people out of poverty and i also said there's

a downside, which is 35% of the money goes out the door erroneously in one form or another over claims and they said why? there are two major elements that determine most of the value and that is who you live with, where, and for how long and how you are related to them. the guy looked at me and said that's not a problem for us. that was south korea, by the way. in case you were wondering. in all seriousness, we have a system that is borne out which says the more third-party information reporting, the more compliant the taxpayer. when you build a system in which the critical elements of determining eligibility are unknown to the government, and there's not a high comfort

level with it, then you set up opportunities for problems where the system has to be in control of his or her tax situation. there is something very important about citizen engagement and it should not be lost. i fundamentally believe it's one of the few times people can actually look at how much they are making and what it means. we have already king of made it easier. i think we should be leveraging it which is why we partner with treasury where we are trying to use prop folks to look at the refunds and save some of it stop can we get them to do it? now they are working with the tax industry to try to do the same thing. there maybe opportunities.

nina: in sweden, the tax agency is the most respected government agency they have. it is a completely different culture and there's a sense of what you are getting back from the government. the government is giving you benefits by complying with taxes. that's a sign of being a good citizen. that's why i started with my conversation about trust and legitimate power. it really relates to how much a tax them can do. >> the tax system we have is so opaque, how can anybody trust something they don't understand? nina: that is one of the reasons you do want tax reform. trust, transparency, trust is linked to compliance. i'm trying to get the hard data that shows it but i think it just stands to reason.

eric: if we had systems like universal health care and health care credits. it is very complicated. it is a lot of work for the taxpayer. if we had individuals filing instead of family filing, it's a big determinant of making things printable in how much an individual owes. for constitutional reasons and state reasons, we got into this with the community property where we had to move away from individual filing. you had in new zealand to rates and individual filing. it got you to the right answer and you don't have to worry about what your spous is making. if you did not have all these benefits going through the tax code, yes. i don't see us having that kind of reform because we are not

going to eliminate these benefits. it's just not going to get to that level. rosemary: i do want to come back and make some basic points about what the irs is proposing to do. to have identification and allow taxpayers to do secure transactions with the irs and do things that are not going to mars. there are some things behind what people are saying here that is quite powerful. 10 years ago, if you invested in these communication abilities

they did not handle the incoming information and tax return information rapidly enough to do it, i think that is something that is dramatically different. the service is handling its data in a really impressive way. we are dealing with -- a flip phone would be a step up with some of the things we are dealing with. we can make that kind of step. but i think as everyone has pointed out, it's a series of investments. they have to be broken down. i think nina and david know the thing that's going to come online in the viewer in 2017 you never know what it is, so we have learned that and we have a lot of small moving parts. but we can do this basic transformation.

what was it? >> fast followers. nina: that will be a step up. dave: when i was talking about engagement, part of the way you get it is you can actually understand the connection between what is on your return and what is causing the outcome. i believe it needed to be as -- needn't to be as broad and wide scale -- it would not be the 86 act even if we could do that, but i do think there are places where we have got multiple objectives, multiple credits basically aimed at education. 15 of those and there may be

places where you can preserve the policy objective with some of the complexities taxpayers face. we administer whatever is there, but i believe there are opportunities to look at places where there are multiple credits. eric: i agree with you totally. there are lots of things that need to be done to eliminate unnecessary complexity without compromising policy objectives and that should be a priority of reform. all i was trying to say is you are not going to get to the return free filing under any of that. dave: unless you are in korea. >> thank you for coming, especially rosemary, for all these years of service. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]

>> the deadline for tax fouling is this wednesday. we spoke with editorial director who offered advice for people feeling got their forms. from washington journal this is 45 minutes. ition on "washington journal." talking about last minute tax prep advice. if you want your questions answers -- answered, you have 45 minutes. kevin mccormally will answer your questions. 4 days away from april 15. best tips for last-minute filing. guest: do not rush into a mistake. if you cannot get it done by tuesday night, file for an extension. one of my favorite tips is -- 75% of people get refunds.

if you get refunds, do not -- you do not have to file a form to get an extension because there is no penalty for missing the deadline. if the irs owes you money -- they are more than happy not to send you your check. if you oh money, you can file a form and push your deadline until october 15. the biggest tip, do not rush into a mistake and overpaid your taxes. do it right. host: people doing their taxes with last year's filings sitting next to them. what are the biggest changes they should be looking for? guest: the biggest is obamacare and the fact you had to have health insurance last year. 77% of the people -- all they have to do is check a box that says i have insurance. if you bought insurance on the exchange, on a state exchange or medicare -- the federal

exchange, you have to reconcile the credit you got to subsidize your premiums with what you deserve. when people got insurance, they had to estimate what their put a 14 income would be any credit they got was based on that estimate. now they have to write down what they made. if they made more than expected, they have to give that credit back. if they made less, they will get a bigger refund, but they have to reconcile it. that is causing people the biggest problem. host: how much headache is a calling -- causing the irs? guest: they say everything is going swimmingly. the commissioner says it is going great. they are not having any trouble. the biggest thing slowing refunds is fraud. host: several stories about fraud. sibling or has done a few. -- kiplinger has done a few. give us some of the stats and

why is fraud on the rise? guest: because everything is automated. in the old days, you had to make up a phony dubya to form. -- w-2 form. now all you need is a name social security number and date of birth to file electronically. 900,000 refunds were stolen by fraudulent returns. the irs is trying to put in more safeguards. they say 900,000 that refunds were paid but they stop 2.5 million more. they are doing a pretty good job. but fraud is overwhelming. the commission last week said they put 2000 to 3000 people in jail or refund fraud. he said we have the amateurs off the street. the reason it is there is you are talking $1 trillion.

there is a lot of money. host: a colleague at killing her wrote a piece, what to do if someone files a tax return in your name. guest: what happens with a lot people -- two people have called me -- they get letters from the irs that say, we have a problem with your return. they call the number and they say "i have not filed." if it happens, reported to the irs. the irs says they can solve most of these problems within 120 days. inspector general says it is more like 300 days. call the irs. there is somebody to talk to. host: kevin mccormally is here for about the next 40 minutes. let's get to your phone calls and questions. gary in austin texas. caller: good morning.

i was wondering about savings bonds. the aa savings bonds. when you cash them in, does the government send you the 1099 or does the bank? guest: i am not sure, you probably do get a 1099 from the bank. it is reported as interest. i'm not certain you will get a 1099 because i have not dealt with it for a while. host: let's go to hamilton ohio. mary. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to know -- my social security number was stolen. i have blue cross-blue shield and they were recently breached. they said that your social security number may have been stolen. mine was. i always file late for some reason.

i think you said it takes 120 days to get this sorted out and for me to get my refund. is that correct? guest: if somebody else has filed in your name if you discover someone has filed in your name, the irs says it will take 4 months for them to get you your refund. the inspector general says it takes almost a year for so many, it depends on how complex it is and who you are. and what kind of backlog the irs has. do not assume because you're sosa security number was stolen that your refund was filed. host: any estimates to the number of fraudulent returns filed this year on stolen social security number's? guest: i have seeing numbers as high as 2.5 million.

host: athens georgia, marianne. caller: i inherited a property. we use the property for about three years as a rental property. then we sold the property. we sold it for less than the basis that we had when we inherited it. can i claim a capital loss on that? guest: probably. when you use it as a rental property you had to depreciated, and each deduction reduces that basis. if the proceeds of the sale, after commissions, were less than your basis, you have a deductible investment loss. and that should save you money. the key thing -- inherited property the basis is the value on the death at the previous

owner. the tax is forgiven. you start off with the value even -- when you inherited it. compare that to the proceeds of sale and if you have a loss, finally deduction. host: how would a person find out if their social security number was stolen? guest: you will not know unless someone uses it to your detriment. if something gets to tax refund before you do -- adversely affected. host: john from west palm beach florida. caller: i have two questions. thinking about id theft. if you own money -- i always try

to plan so that i/o just a little money. if somebody stole your social security number and if you owed them money, i do not see how they could get a refund. my second question -- 8919 -- my daughter got a job with a considered her a self contractor. they gave her a dubya to at the end of the year -- a w2 at the end of the year. on the self-employment schedule, it has the flowchart on the front. listed yes-no, yes-no. it said, if you filled and 8919, which i believe is the correct number for social security and medicare, you have to do the back of the log form -- longform. you know why that would be on there? the way they read -- i read it

structures, if you are self contractor, you do not fill out and 8919, unless you are claiming you will -- you are not a subcontractor? guest: it is tough for an employer to put somebody as an employee part of the and a self employee part of the or. the 8919 gives you the right to say, i would never self-employed. my boss should have been paying half my social security taxes all your long. the problem is very few employees want to say my boss is a crook. that is the reason it is there. if she wants to claim she was employed entire year, which would save her money on self employment taxes. on the id theft, great question -- at kiplinger we say the best way to avoid losing your refund

to fraud is not to have a refund in the first place. we have a khaki later on site that tells you how to fix george holding's so you do not have a refund. how can some get a refund even if you of the government, because the irs does not know. name, date of birth, social security number, to make all this stuff up. the problem with id theft -- the government says employers have to tell their employees to send their w2s by the end of february. it does not go to the irs, a ghost to so security. social security send it to iris. it is june before the irs knows before whether or not you made any money. congress likes to keep voters happy's. . they say pay now. host: we are talking to kevin mccormally.

he joined kiplinger in 1977 is -- has a reporter specializing in taxes. he helps us out in this annual tradition on tax day to talk about tax filings. eastern central time zones, the phone of her to call is 202-748-8000. mountain and pacific --202-748-8001. let's go to mike in florida. caller: good morning. i heard your comments about the fraud and the delay and i was wondering -- since taxes are done once a year and this would be a quick fix kind of checkmate in regards to fraud. the people that receive funds should have to go to the bank.

that way, they would have to walk in the bank and now they are on camera. that would be one quick fix of preventing fraud. i do not know what you think about that. that is off the top of my head. guest: you have 110 million taxpayer who get refunds. if you are asking 110 million people to go to the banks, i do not think the banks are going to be happy. it will slow the process. i agree that it would solve the problem. an easier fix, and it is something congress talked about, require employers to get this information to the irs sooner. that was all a lot of the problems. host: the question about congresses relationship with the irs, with congress slashing funds, you cannot call and ask a question and have it answered. let alone a quick response for fraud. you want to doug about funding for the irs.

-- you want to talk about funding for the iris. guest: -- the irs. guest: the predecessor to the current commissioner said that every time they cut the budget -- commissioner shulman was a weekend get along with less. the current mr. says we do not have enough money. they have 5000 fewer agents auditing returns. we all love to hate the irs am a but they collect $1.5 trillion to keep the congress going. whether or not liberals were unfairly treating conservative interest groups. to me, the irs can prove that every dollar we spent on enforcement, they bring in four dollars in revenue. that is for dollars we do not

have to pay -- four dollars we do not have to pay. they are decent people. out of the dallas office, they are claiming that they cannot go after people who own money unless they own $1 million. -- oh $1 million. host: greg, chapel hill, nortel lineup. caller: i have a quick question. i worked in ohio in 20 14 and moved to chapel hill, north carolina. about filing state taxes, what i have to file the state tax form in ohio because i worked there one month. guest: i was talking to a friend who worked for five days in new york state last year. he works in washington d.c.. he had to file in new york state

for that five days. states are very -- they love to tax anybody's income. the tax you pay on that income in ohio will not be double taxed. you probably do need to file. host: is new york the most extreme example? guest: california has the highest tax rate. their state income tax rate is 12.3%. states that have pro sports teams are very careful about this. when the mets played the nationals, d.c. wants to get the revenue that the mets players earn. the pro athletes have to file lots of returns. host: kevin mccormally answering your questions with a few days to go before april 14. mountain and pacific time zones call 202-748-8001.

for the next way minutes or so, kevin mccormally will be with us. illinois, frank is with us. caller: my comment is not how to fill out my forms. my income is high and i took a short term capital gain. the irs should want to hide their head in the sand about the forms i had to fill out. these forms are 45 lines long. also my sosa security, about 25 lines long -- my social security. h&r block is lobbying to keep that stuff going because the average person who has not done their taxes could no longer -- no way fill those forms out without blowing their brains out. guest: i hate being an apologist for the irs.

blame the folks in that building over there. the schedule you talk about -- why is a long -- some people -- most people pay 0% on their long-term capital gains. if your income is below $70,000 if you're in the 50% or lower bracket, your rate on long-term's capital gain is 0%. then we have capital gains for higher income people. for higher income people it is 23.8% in that form has to apply all of those -- most of us do not have to fill out those. i bet you did not have developed very many with an income of $90,000, and you are over the limit and had to pay 50% off those long-term gains. it drives me crazy too. if you follow the instructions step-by-step by tax preparation

software or forget about buying it, anybody with income below $60,000 can get free software at the irs.gov, it is called free file. the government requires the software makers to give it away. all you have to do is say, when you bought and sold the stock what your basis was, it will fill up the entire form. host: free file at irs.gov. new jersey pat is next. caller: i am one of those people who uses free file. my question is regarding the obamacare. i do not have health insurance. my concern is, i changed my withholding so i get very little -- down to a couple hundred dollars for the year. can the irs tap might make it count if i try to use the

automatic deposit of whatever refund i get -- guest: they cannot tap your bank account, but your refund will never get there. they can't take your refund. -- they can take your refund. it is one of the parts they put in the bill when the affordable care act was passed, the irs cannot spend money going after the money that they can get your refund. it gets your bank account -- host: rochester, new york. caller: i retired. i used to work for a big name company in rochester that went bankrupt, start with a "k." over the years, as i was working there, i used to put $25 a month away and buy stock. the company went bankrupt about

2013. i never claimed the losses on the stock. since i never sold the stock could i just amend my return for this year or do i have to go back to 2013 -- four last year or do i have to go back to twitter 13 -- 22013? guest: they should be deducted in the year they became worthless. you should file an amended 2013 return. the advantage to that, the irs will have to pay interest. that is the rule. it is unclear that the stock was worthless in 2013.

and you can point to something in 2014 that you think is what finally convinced you is worthless, then between 14 is the year. -- then 2014 is the year. you can ask your broker to buy it for one dollar and file a return in 2015. host: seattle washington. sarah is waiting. caller: good morning. my question is this -- i am a small business owner. in 2013, i got a refund through my accountant. i got a correction letter that said it was too much and they would cut it in half. then i got a letter recently that said i owed them $1500 for 2013. then i got a letter that says i am $633 for putting 14 because they had not credited one of my payments to them.

they only credited three. then they applied another payment to 2013. my question is -- how do you deal with incompetence of them. how do you get to the bottom of it, guys you cannot get to anybody. guest: before i joined tivoli are -- kiplinger i work for a member of congress, and every office has a special person as a caseworker. call your congressman or commerce woman and asked them for their help. -- or congresswoman. it will get a lot more attention than a call to the rest. document what is going on. getting -- get to the caseworker in your congressman or senator's office. back in the old days, in the 1970's, we did everything.

we wrote legislation impeached the president, confirmed the vice president. host: cap -- toughest tax casework back in the day? guest: the law was simpler then. host: let's go to larry in ohio. you are on with kevin mccormally /. caller: i understand you do not have to worry about a sale when you have a roth or an ira. guest: a worth sale is when the sale an asset and buy stocks within 30 days. four years, we thought and the irs said, if you sold a stock for a loss and bought it back in an ira, it was not a worth sale. they changed the rule. it does not matter if it is a taxable account, a worth sale is a worth sale.

caller: it's not like you would deduct it. you just do not -- guest: you are talking about inside of an ira? it is like vegas, what goes on in a tax shelter goes -- stays in a tech shelter. the iris does not know about it. -- the irs does not know about it. host: 202-748-8001 if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones. a few minutes left to get your questions in four kevin mccormally. also taking questions on twitter. new jersey withheld state tax -- guest: you only report state refunds if you itemize deductions the previous year.

75% of the people take the standard addictions and do not report a state refund. then you get the 1099-g, you report it. if you get a refund, if you did not itemized induction's, it is tax-free. if you get itemize deductions -- there is another worksheet. you only have to declare income on your federal return if it saves you money whether you deducted it. people who barely had enough itemized reductions to surpass the standard deduction amount, many of those people will report part of the state income tax refund, not all of it. host: a good transition into the most overlooked tax deductions. a column on kiplinger -- if you want to go through a few of your favorite most overlooked tax -- guest: states -- state sales tax, if you live in a state that

does not have -- i christmastime they reinstate -- on state taxes, we know a lot of people who owed money last year to the state when they filed their return. they'll do next or thousand dollars to this day, they forget to duck that as a state income tax paid. they look at their form and see how much was held under boss they will forget the payment they may. even know that was what he 2013 taxes. it makes that a deduction under .14 return. it is an important one. people remember what they gave in shacks. what they gave through united way at work. look at that december paystub. if you made charitable contributions through your job you should include that.

if you're making casseroles for a soup kitchen. ingredients are deductible. some people say that is nickel and dime, i say get that money. host: touch on student loan interest paid by mom and dad guest:. guest:guest: you can only detect interest if you're legally obligated to pay it back. parents who paid their kids student len -- toulon interest, five years ago, the irs started treating it as mom and dad paid the kids the money. this is for adult children. the children paid the bills, so the children get to deduct that interest. it goes on the child's tax return. it happened rarely in tax law. host: back to the phones. alabama. mark.

caller: my question is about the penalty for not having health insurance. i have had health insurance this year starting at the beginning of the year. it has been four months, if i cancel my health insurance, when i file my taxes next year, since i have had health insurance for 4 months and did not have it the rest of the year, will that penalty still be applied to me. guest: only 40 months you did not have insurance. -- only for the months. you have -- look at the to 95 a form, -- the 1095a form. host: larry on twitter -- says

if a tax code is to couple gated for every desk obligated -- west virginia. caller: i had a question about the fraud you talked about earlier. he said the irs estimated 2.5 million cases of fraud. my question is, do you know if any of a percentage of those were deceased or reused social security numbers? guest: it seems the real issue is not the deceased social security numbers. it is these data breaches. i do not think they have to go through the social security numbers of dead people, there are too many out there and are easier pagans for the scammers. i doubt if it is a big problem.

host: been in ithaca, new york. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my question. it is a great program. i am a self provider. -- proprietor. i am interested in setting up a private foundation. i checked the irs pages and it is recommended i do that. i was wondering -- i do not have llc. your recommendation about how to go about this. guest: i commend you for wanting to do this.

this is an area i have not worked in at all. i cannot help you. host: henderson nevada. sal. caller: this question is to kevin mccormally. i have a social security income for myself and my wife. i did not pay a credit card company and they wrote it off but send me a 1099. do i have to file for taxes this year based on that information? guest: it depends on your total income level. if you had a debt forgiven from eight credit cap and he government considers that income. whether or not your income is at the level you need to file the pens.

most social security is tax-free. look at the instructions. the filing threshold for a married couple is over $13,000 to $14,000 of income. you will have to look at it. it depends on your income. whether or not you will taxes. -- you owe taxes. host: jim is one of those who follows me on twitter every day. he says, our time in 30 years i did my own with turbotax. piece of cake. very thorough. can you use fsa money on medical expenses if they are still on your health insurance but too old to claim as dependents on your taxes? guest: i do not know. i am guessing -- i do not know. great question. now that obamacare -- the

depends the thing into it -- at 24. great question. host: hard to stop kevin mccormally. pittsburgh pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i usually file my taxes with h&r block. the free service is from the federal government. they now require you to -- i usually file my state with the state. they are forcing you to do it with them and they force you to pay. is there a way around that? guest: i would somebody use other than plot, i do not think they all do that. -- other than block. it seems like it is violating the governments requirement. the free filing is only for the

fed and most charge for states. i do not see how they can demand you use there's. right now your federal return and do your state return by hand. host: a matter of shopping around. connecticut, charles, good morning. caller: hello? i started electing social security at 62. then i went back to work. they hit me like i made a pretty good amount of money. social security came after me and took it all back. it was like $17,000 they wanted back. i gave it back, but i have been taxed on that money. that is like $1500. nobody seems to know where that went. can i get that back? guest: yes.

we do -- we used to do a lot of stories where you could take your social security -- if you paid it all back -- reset the clock -- there is a revision in the law for refunding the taxes that were paid on that. you can do the same thing with social security. file an amended return for the year this was involved and scratch up the social security income you did not get. that would probably be the easiest way. i would to just you file an amended return using 1040x. the irs -- social security says you can take benefits as early as 62 but if you work, you cannot, because you lose one dollar for every two dollars you earn over that amount. even though, that $70,000 was taken away, it is not take it --

$17,000 is taken only, it is not. it is all worked out so that by the end of his expected life expectancy he should get that $1700 back. host: you can follow kiplinger on twitter. florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to ask -- another one of the deductions that people forget they tended back is the mpi if you have an fha loan. i did not realize that until a couple of years ago. when i was online looking at the deductions that could be taken. that was one of them. i could only go back as much as three years in order to get that back. they did pay it back with

interest. during those three years. that was when i have friends that were in the same boat that did not note that was a deduction they could take. guest: it is a relatively new deduction. one i have never understood, if you put less than 20% down when you get a loan, the bank forces you to buy insurance to ensure the bank against you defaulting on the loan. it protects the bank and requires -- four years -- might only be three years ago congress allowed that deduction allowed -- along with the interest. it should show up on your 1099 from the mortgage company. host: connecticut sheila, good morning. caller: i have a statement and a question. senator blumenthal had an

article in the norwalk paper -- $13 million owed to taxpayers and it will not help me, but it might help other connecticut residents. $13.4 million worth of unclaimed tax refunds from 2011 own twed to connecticut taxpayers. what kind of taxes will i have had paid in 2011 to qualify to receive an earned income tax credit? guest: a couple of different things we're talking about. the senators -- people who do not file returns -- there are hundreds of millions of dollars the irs is sitting on because people do not file. they think they are in trouble. as far as the earned income tax credit, i was looking at those numbers. the credit -- if you made less

than $50,000 on a joint return and have three or more kids, that is the highest income you can earn to get the earned income tax credit. it starts at about $6,000 a year if you are single and have no kids. that's where you max out. there is a form -- the instructions -- there is a table that looks like the tax tables. it shows income, number of children, and filing status, and will show you how my cheek and earn and get the credit. if you have used tax preparation services, those programs automatically figure that out. you do not have to know this exists if you use the programs. host: kathy in new castle delaware. caller: good morning and thank you for such an informed discussion. i have been helping my family

members with their taxes and i have a suggestion. i was wondering what the guest thoughts would be on this. as i'm entering -- i have a few arrangements where they share custody -- my family members. where the custodial parent gets 100% of the dependent to claim on their taxes. i was wondering what the thoughts would be unchanging that from a whole number to a percentage of custody arrangement. it seems like -- if you could reflect that too because the percentage, then each parent would get their fair share of the claim of the defendant and to claim the percentage of the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. guest: it is a great question.

it would add complexity to the law that is already too complex. it would lead to enforcement problems. i know a lot of divorced parents who are concerned about this, where one parent gets the tax benefits. it is a good idea. the complexity what outweigh the benefits. kevin mccormally is the editor

it was thought to be an effort to control the costs of the medicare program. it resulted, however in about 17 fatches over the last so or -- patches over the last years.

and each paid for the one-year period. it didn't pay for the accumulated interest, if you will, like a credit card. and by kicking the can down the road each year congress accumulated a lot of this interest so that now april 15th if the senate does not act, there will be a 21% cut in physician payments which is the accumulated interest of all these years of kicking the can down the road. i do want to talk about the term dock fix. as a physician i'm a little biased against that primarily because it's my belief the it isn't doctors that need to be fixed here. it's medicare that needs to be filmed. so we're seeking a fix in medicare that will stabilize the program for the future for our patients in the medicare system, and that's where we are. so the term dock fix has been picked up by a lot of journalists. whenever i get a chance i try to correct it that it's really medicare that needs to be fixed.

>> and one of the implications, if the payment program isn't adjusted, is that fewer doctors might take medicare patients. is that correct? >> absolutely. like any business, if doctors are faced with a 21% cut in their payments in the medicare program, it will be more challenging for them to continue to see the medicare patients. and if that happens, the medicare patients will have a harder time finding doctors that can take care of them and so they may have to drive further or call more doctors' offices. and it will just be a more challenging environment for patients to find the care they need in the medicare system.

>> good morning. good to see you. i am thrilled to hear about your project. where are you from? >> denver, colorado. >> what grade? >> a junior in high school. >> so you're going through the whole sat application process. >> yes. >> but not too busy that you couldn't pull off some outstanding projects. >> if you look carefully every system has a leaf and these are

very important because they can tell us all sorts of things about leafs. right now because there are more than 350,000 systems of flowera and fawna we're trying to track them. so the goal is to basically have a registry on line so that scientists can share knowledge over the internet instead of having to send samples back and forth.

what is your name? i am thrilled to hear about your project. >> i am from denver, colorado. i'm a junior in high school. obama: so you have the whole s.a.t. application process? it's a busy year. but not too busy to pull off this project. let's hear about what this is. >> if you look carefully, every leaf is a system. this is very important to science because it can tell us all sorts of things. because there are more than 350,000 species of flora and fauna on the planet, we're try to track them all. eventual goal is to have a registry online of all of the systems, so that scientists can share knowledge over the internet instead of having to said samples back. it is costly. the current way to do this has many problems. it is very expensive, and completely destroys the sample. i try to see if there was more economically liable and an efficient ways to do this. the most advanced research this man discovered that photons were very of all in imaging these things. my first thought was that i was going to build a straight machine -- an xray machine. and i quickly discovered that was not the direction to go with this. so i actually ended up using the led flashlight on my iphone, and a scanner that was purchased by the denver museum of science, and i discovered

that if i scanned the leaf, and i signed my flashlight over it i was able to image it successfully. as a basis of comparison, this is the one that was unprofessionally. thousands of dollars, lots of hours, and i'm little to do this in two minutes on my own. obama: even better. >> recently in science, there has been a big leap to get citizens and science. the thing about this process is that everyone has an iphone nowadays, so it is easy to have access to that and a scanner is a basic office supply. we could have citizens uploading into their computers, we could pick the best ones and use them online for the registry. i had an internship in paleontology in the the summer 2014, helping to track evolution in science. that was one of the reasons i have the fossils here. that is one of britain's available to this, because i had support from the denver museum of science. this was me. obama: we always interested in geology? >> i was interested in leaves and plants. i did my very first science project in first grade.

i looked at algae. in middle school, the denver museum of science hosts a science fair. the first year, i got an excitement award. the second year i won the science fair enough to go to state. i won a national science fair, and took second place of the national society of black engineers science fair. my graveyard took third place. each time i did something concerning leaves. this is my first time doing anything with an imaging system. obama: was there particular technique that made the scanner with the led light work best? did you have to try a bunch of different techniques out? or did you just arrive at this on your own, or was there a

theory that allowed you to say this might work? >> it was towards the end of the summer, we're supposed to be wrapping up our research project when i discovered this. i discovered it completely by chance. obama: that is what happens a lot of times the discovery. >> the method with the scanner i did not know what to do at that point. i was really glad i did not do the x-ray machine. one thing i found is that the further away you hold the light, the better the picture. i tried sprinkling water on the leaf, because there is a substance, the only 30 letter word i know, and i enjoy saying it. >> i will test you on the pronunciation. >> i quickly arrived at the conclusion it was too

expensive. another thing that helps the imaging is packaging plastic. if you put a sheet on top of it before you use the flashlight and image the leaf, it creates a better image. obama: what do you want to do with all this knowledge? >> heated to other people, so we can get the citizens off the ground. this is my duty year of high school, so i left we will ask me what i want to be when a group, and i want to be a technical engineer -- when i want to grow up, and i want to be a biotechnical engineer. obama: we are so proud of you. excellent. were your parents into science? >> my mother is a doctor, and my dad is self-employed. obama: so you have to do pretty well at school, or else you'll be in trouble?

congratulations. a great presentation. you explain it very well. good luck to you. that is wonderful. how are you doing? what is the -- your name? >> complications from a procedure. when i did was design this grows with the child's spine secret have more space between surgeries and reduce the number of surgeries overall.

obama: what is the principle that allows it to a just as you grow? >> it is on the shape. i had about 40 versions of this that i tested that looks at the mathematical spectrum of it, to minimize the possibility to break. the problem is that something being strong enough does not mean it is going to work. the only way to test that out is to either put it in an actual human, and i cannot do that. so i made my own by building a model of a spinal column. each of these are vertebra, and it might screws inside of each one that simulate natural growth. this is the version i was able

to make. this should have, based on these, a 50 degree curvature right now, but my math and the device are keeping a straight and allow you to grow naturally. >> at what age do you do there has to be a better way to do this? >> my first surgery was when i was two. when i started high school, i knew and loved science and research. i remember one night i went on my research database and i googled scoliosis. and the first article was by my surgeon who had talked to be about what happened to be all throughout. and i thought maybe i was on to something. i read everything that was out there, and what people were worked on. i came up with my own ideas. my first model was terrible.

i do not want to look at it again. i developed it, and now i'm working with an engineer to hopefully bring this to market. obama: how are you going to be able to test it? you have modeled it and simulated it, and i'm assuming that computer models help. but at some point, this is about as congregated in medical device as you can imagine. for it to be implanted into someone would require obligated fda approvals. how do you go about that? >> the way i looked at it was in balancing the strength of the device with the functionality. what is strongest is going to be a sheet of metal, that is not going to work. screws at every level, that keeps them very straight. when you do that to a child, they will not grow anymore. it is a matter of allowing for

the most growth that is going to be able, will still preventing the curvature from getting worse. obama: how will we test it out? >> will tested it on their growth models, other bone models. instead of curbing the right to be just put the run in straight, and make sure that it works pretty conducive that on -- make sure that works for you could do that on someone's leg and let the computer model make sure it is working correctly. obama: this is so impressive. i'm so proud of you. i cannot wait to see it at work. the notion that you can take your own experiences and be able to apply it, what a powerful story that is. inspiring for other people who

are suffering from the disease. >> it is always good to take a bad experience and use it to do something that makes it a whole lot better. obama: let's get a good picture. we're a spee -- where is pete? that is great. thank you. hi. what is your name? it is good to see you. where are you from? >> arizona. i am a high school senior. obama: where are you going to go? >> still waiting for the decision to come back. it currently takes about 10 years and $5 billion to bring a single drug to market, which is a real problem when we look for drugs for diseases like ebola. i developed a novel approach of inviting artificial intelligence and biochemistry

to train the computer to find drugs for diseases like cancer and tuberculosis. my model was able to find fda approved inhibitor and rank it first of the 3000 approved drugs. i was able to find more inhibitors through the natural compounds. obama: what is the concept behind the algorithm? >> it is so unique and generally applicable because we target intrinsically children. these are proteins of change shape consummate. when mutated the cause diseases. it is finding a key or lock that keeps changing. my approach is a little bit different. i look for drugs that mimic the part of the protein.

what we do is trick the other proteins in your cell into binding to the drug rather than the protein. we are able to block the disordered protein from doing anything. obama: are you applying the algorithm to existing drugs that are already out there to see if they have no applicability? >> that is what we did for tuberculosis and ebola. that is really good for finding drugs quickly, because you already tested those drugs that are safe in humans. obama: so the algorithm finds those that have been evaluated. >> we're still looking for ways to test the new ebola drugs. obama: that is a pretty powerful algorithm. how did you create it? >> i thought that there had to be a better way to do it. i tried to look for the most elegant of projected five. -- elegant approach i could find. obama: i don't know what you

all have been doing, but this is what she has been doing. i simulate to continue in this field -- assume you want to continue in this field. in terms of all of the advances being made in terms of genetic sequencing and big data pools, combined with algorithms like yours, we could short-circuit pathways to find cures for every disease. we'll stop to do clinical trials -- we will still have to do clinical trials, but this will narrow down rapidly what could work and what when not and compress them, the length of time between? >> exactly. obama: thinking we have a lead and bringing a drug to market.

>> i think that medicine should be reaching this point. obama: we're going to put this young lady in touch with our precision medicine team, right? we just lost a big initiative around these things. -- launched and big initiative around these things. we think she should be interning, working with the team. excellent. there you go. how are you. >> good morning mr. president. obama: what we have here? >> we have a revolutionary light source using company oxide to -- carbon dioxide to generate energy.

the developing energy crisis and the pollution not the atmosphere. i tried to think how i could combine these two. so i have a battery that uses carbon dioxide. my first test involves testing carbon dioxide. as you increase the contraception -- concentration and improves the output. they significantly outperform the other batteries. obama: why is that? >> carbon dioxide with water is called carbonic acid. the more carbon dioxide you put into a solution or water, the more carbonate ions and bicarbonate ions form, so it is

better conducted. the potential increases. if you can increase the carbon dioxide in small concentration for you can significantly increase the voltage. i also wondered what i could implement, to make this environment fully friendly. i thought about recyclable materials. we would fulfill one of the biggest economic theory that history, which is money flows between consumers, why not materials? why don't i turn aluminum cans into a corporate office, and the consumer would pay the consumer for turning in those materials. and it would save moneys. with all that in mind, i thought this would be my final product.

i have aluminum foil, and guitar strings. guitar strings are changed every month or so. my fault bridge, going back to that recyclable material. the latex material was used to separate the cells from one another. so this product, i have a patent pending on it. but i have a bigger vision for energy. i see a co2 capture system happening in one can find space -- confined space. these are a couple of failed attempts at developing the system. i started to think about how did humans breathe?

if i reversed the process, i should technically get all of the carbon dioxide i need this is me replicating the russian gradient within our lungs -- pressure gradient within our lungs. this is the co2 capture aspect of my cell. what i intend to do is have it on top of this box,, on the bottom would be the energy generation system, so the entire thing is happening in one system. there is no need for cables or anything of that sort. obama: i tell you what, you're going to be busy over the next four years. you're a freshman in high school?

which ago. -- way to go. we have an outstanding rocket team right here. what is your name? good to see you. good to see you. where are you from? u.s. virgin islands, and you guys are the rocket team. outstanding. tell me about how things have been doing. >> things are going great. we are launching the rocketry challenge. in-house 700 teams, and about 5000 students.

only 100 teams qualify for the finals. obama: how did you guys get involved with the rocketry challenge? >> is funded by our advisor, and these are students who have an interest in rocketry. obama: how did you that on your model? >> confidence. obama: what refinements have you meet your model that makes you confident that this is going to go gangbusters? >> this rocket is the one we're going to currently use. obama: i want everyone to see this rocket. >> the reason why we use this one is because it is lighter. we try to only use things of a certain weight.

a specific way for us for our criteria is at least 17 ounces. our challenge has three criteria. a height of jackson, a flight duration objective and a payload objective. obama: that is the payload? >> yes. this right here, as the criteria is changing, we try to get it for all the teams. this is the height range, the time range, and the payload. this is the payload section.

our area study was right here. this is a unique component of our rocket because we came up with the idea. obama: you have a little circuit. >> if you look at a computer motherboard we have cigarettes connected to a mainboard. this would prevent any type of malfunction in the rocket. we put this on either side and slighted in -- slide it in, and it will not move around. this is where we put the engine. this engine, we've tested it many times. it reaches the required height

and has a specific design. it is very thin, so it is more aerodynamic and will cut through the air and flies faster. obama: so you feel very confident? >> very. obama: what is the competition? >> in may. obama: i want to wish you guys all the luck. we are well represented. let's get a good picture. we got to make sure we have the rocket in here. slide over just a bit. in in front of me -- there we go, everyone can get in there. good luck. proud of you. we hope all of you will stay in

science and math. how are you? what is your name? good to see you. where are you from? this is your robot? >> i am guessing you are familiar with obama: i am. >> another objective was to move from one load to another. if you got it to pass it to one member, it got 40 points. it emphasizes cooperation with

your team. some designs of the robot, aluminum arms that are controlled with many motors -- minimoters. we have two positions, the down position which we used to get the ball when it is on the ground, and if position when we grab the ball. you any ball that is thrown at us. in order to build the ball, we have these better controlled using pressure there. once you get the ball, and you put it appear -- up here -- obama: watch out pete. how far does it go? >> about six feet. when we're in the son of the field we should it very hard --

center of the field, we can shoot it very hard. it is hard to do that with just pneumatics. you just have on or off. so what we did is we added pistons when we shoot these out, the ball changes position from where it started. it gives it less time to stay on the catapult, so it leaves the capital sooner and all the force will be going in the vertical position. obama: great. how long did it take you guys to design and construct? >> the first day we were trying

to make sure we knew what we wanted to do. it usually takes about a week, and that was all the time you want to spend on it. and the will have six weeks to build the rest of the robot. ss is written in can get the design me start going -- so as fast as we can get the design done is when we start going. >> we had what was called a sensor. it shoots the weight out, and waits for the wait to come back. they can tell something is in front of it. we tried to take the human of the equation. it is just a standing there, we let it think the ball is getting rolled over here. adsense is the velocity and how far away it is. once it is close enough to the grabber, it knows when to deploy the arms.

obama: it does not automatically? >> yes. it can also catch the ball the humans or the robot throws to it. it works the same way as on the ground. and when it is close enough, the arms close. obama: and you and name for your robot? >> relentless dream. obama: let's get a picture. make sure the robot is in the picture. i'm proud of you. hello. what is your name? good to see you.

tell me about your experiment. tell me about your project. it was going to go first? >> we are from girl scout troop 111. we decided that we needed better learning tools. we made a device that can help people read a book. >> it turns the pages. obama: this is wonderful. how did you figure this

out? >> we had a brainstorming session. obama: is that right? how long did it take you to build? >> three months. obama: that is a big project. it is working really well, but you have to read fast. are you able to slow it down and speeded up? >> now. obama: it is a prototype. do you guys like inventing things and building things? >> yeah. obama: the are very good at this. i'm so impressed.

you are resetting it? >> yeah. now there is another page. obama: this is wonderful. can i take a picture with you? you guys stand in front of me. i will get down on my knees so we are even. everybody look up and say cheese. thank you. i am so proud of you guys. this is outstanding. did you have fun doing this? keep on learning math and science and you will all kinds of great things when you get older. you're already great inventors. with your brainstorming sessions and prototypes. what grade are you in? first grade and

kindergarten. excellent. and even having fun? i'm thrilled to have you here. >> have you ever had a brainstorming session yourself? obama: i have, but it did not come up with anything this good. you're already better brainstorm or is that i am -- brainstormers that i am. i came up with health care. i had a few prototypes. good job. group hug. that is a big squeeze. thank you. go change the world. i like that. see if you can stop this. -- top this.

what have you been working on? >> man otology based on his answer for -- nanotechnology based sensor for cardiac events. current devices are very expensive and time-consuming. one drop of blood would give a chemical readout, which can tell you what a certain concentration your bloodstream is an tell you your risk for cardiac arrest. obama: this protein in the blood stream can tell you this? >> yes. obama: was the correlation well-established?

the question is how you detect that efficiently? or did you have to try to map that correlation? >> increase the sensitivity of the device. it is actually 250 times more sensitive than what is used. obama: what was the principle that led you to make it so much more efficient? >> nanotechnology. i can map the area of the carbon fibers. i then can just look at linkers and antibodies and antigens to detect proteins. it can be used not just for health diagnostics, but also for environmental monitoring. obama: the concept generally unaware real correlation that you can establish, using nanotechnology, you can get a

better and more acute, quicker and cheaper technique. >> even cheaper than this is the paper-based sensor. the idea is that something like this could take the insulin test. you can pick it up, and throw it away. it could really be good in the patient care market. obama: this seems like a pretty big deal. so where we are now in terms of -- you have taken what you learned and started to talk two companies already in the diagnostic field? >> we are working on that prototype stage right now, making it into a handheld device. we're working on that right now. obama: obviously you are going to continue with your research and ideas.

>> definitely. obama: june idea which would ultimately like to do? >> engineering in college. obama: excellent. let's take a good picture. really proud of you. congratulations. >> thank you. obama: hey guys. what do we have here? >> we represent a high school near a hydroelectric lake. our lake has a lot of recreation and wind.

we wanted to use all the wave energy we have and create energy. would you like to make some waves in our way to take -- wave tank? obama: we have a quiet day on the lake, but we're getting a breeze. >> this is a representation of our floating dock. >> inside the device we have to modified gearmotors that will work as generators, and they are connected to a metal gear that is connected to the surface of the water. from there, when this turns, it -- because it is connected to a

device that is floating on the waves it will turn. i will generate the electricity. obama: is there a minimum amount of weight activity required to make sure this small will goes off -- bulb goes off? >> after the electricity is generated it will charge throughout the day and go into the battery pack. obama: so even if it is completely quiet, the battery will still function. >> it will sense that if the light is low enough, it will trigger the battery pack.

obama: there we go. that is outstanding. have you tested it? >> we tested it at the local marina. we tested it for the july weekend. obama: what a great idea. way to go. you did great. let's get a good picture. you have to make sure the invention is in it. is there a name for it? >> contact waves. obama: that is outstanding.

i will be seeing these in lakes everywhere. who is next? good to see you. we are a from -- wearing from -- where are you from? what do we have here? >> wheelchair attachment. >> i always wanted a tray table, you can never find one that meets my needs, so i did my own. let's say you have a drink, and you are done using it, you can take it apart. they are magnets in core places that put everything together.

when you full that -- fold it, you can put it in your backpack. we were not allowed to bring the backpack in. obama: that was my secret service. >> it is all magnetic. it does not fall out and attaches to any camera. we also made a cup holder which is also magnetic. the goal thing about the cup holder is that is not just for these types, it is also for monks which you do not see in the world. obama: this is very handy. >> i'm from afghanistan, so now i want to reduce it -- produce it so it can help the people of the world. obama: it is relatively simple

and with 3-d printing you could really make it a lot. >> and i designed it. we have several that are still in the process. i was not able to bring all of them. a shade for rain and snow. obama: all working off of this? >> the main idea was the challenge was it should be vulnerable, and everything has to be controlled from the front. many people do not realize that you been backwards is a bad idea. anything reinvents, i just include this. obama: outstanding. way to go. >> thank you for having us. obama: what do we have here? >> it is a wheelchair

attachment that allows you to do a rowing motion which is better for your back. basically we have this concept of a rowing powered wheelchair has been around, but they have been anywhere from 2000 to $10,000. this can snap want to any wheelchair. obama: this is outstanding. >> my partner and i have been working on this for about three. it is entirely 3-d principle. -- printable. it goes around and locks on the

opposite way, and it has two gears on top of each other. it can go forward and it can gauge one at a time and go forwards and backwards. you can try it out. president obama: are you sure? >> yeah. just click forward. president obama: i think it came out. it is too loose. >> then, you can look at this one. this isn't on the chair right now, but basically it rolls in one direction. we can put this one on. president obama: i get a sense of it that this will work. what is amazing is that you