he wants to treat the system rather than the disease. let's change the tax system so that no c.e.o. feels it's their fiduciary duty to their shareholders to engage in corporate inversion to maximize the value of their shares so the united states. those are the first steps. >> thank you. >> govern christie, todd soudermire. innovation has been a real friend to the technology industry. could you talk about your views on immigration reform? governor christie: sure. i think the way to start this conversation in the country is to see if we can agree on two basic facts. fact number one is that people who are here in an undocumented status are not going to self-deport. so let's start with that. they're not leaving on their own. second, as somebody who was the

united states attorney in new jersey for seven years in the bush administration, i can tell you that there are not enough law enforcement officers at the local, county, state and federal level to be able to forcibly deport people who are here in an undocumented status. if you start out agreeing with those two facts, we then have at least the beginnings of the outline of how we have to start to try to fix this problem. part of the reason i think it's so intractable in the country, though, is because the executive branch hasn't done what the executive branch is supposed to do, and that's execute and enforce the laws in this country. and so you have people believing and not wanting to engage in any commonsense discussion of reform of the system because they don't believe that whatever changes are made in the law, that they're going to actually be enforced. and quite frankly, employers are a huge part of the problem. you know, i'm not a guy who is in favor of building a fence or wall along the entire length of america's southern border. it's too expensive, it's inefficient and i'll tell you i've never found a wall or fence

that people filled with the human will can't find their way under, over, or around. and so there may be spots where a wall or fence may make some sense. and there may be spots where technology to enforce border security can be used. but in the end there's a will lot of undocumented folks in new jersey and i have met many of them. i will they will you that not one of them has ever come up to me and said, the reason i came here illegally to the united states is because i wanted to vote. none of them ever said that. every one of home to i've spoken to said they came here because they wanted to work and support their families. so here's the thing. you know, if we know that, if we know that, then let's start talking about the issues that really matter in this and not the ones that are just emotional. so the idea that employers, all employers, shouldn't be subject to e-verify makes no sense to me.

if we set up a system that people are then going to be willing to buy into, they need to know this is going to stop. and we're not going to be back here again 25 years later having the same conversation. and if folks know when they come here they're not going to get a job if they come here illegally, the incentive to come is going to be significantly less. and so we then will have an opportunity to discuss the broader issue of how do you deal with the folks who are here already and how do you deal with the issue of legal immigration and how do we make the qualitative and quantitative decisions on legal immigration that we need to make? but until we have an honest conversation with the american people about the fact that the president of the united states is not going to look the other way on the issue but is going to enforce the laws and not just democrats but republicans too, that the laws are not only going to be enforced against those who sneak their way in, but against the business community who exploits that. we need to do both. then we can, in a commonsense way, qualitatively and quantitatively look at what to do with the people. but until we have that

conversation, we're going to continue to bicker and demonize and demagogue this issue. because there's too much political capital in it to do otherwise. we need to force people to look at it in another way. >> following on the -- >> introduce yourself. >> steve cooker, i'm with monster worldwide. governor, following on the notion of immigration there's a piece of it that really is at the center of the technology in terms of bringing on qualified individuals, people who can really do the work, people that are professional and technical in nature. we see that we sometimes struggle with finding those types of individuals within their -- within our own backyard and at the heart of that are all the stem initiatives that i think that are growing up. the other side of that is, those

professionals that come from elsewhere and attracting them and keeping them here in the united states, can you talk to both sides of that? one is what can we do to keep those people who want to immigrate into the united states here in a professional capacity and the other side, what can we do from an education perspective in preparing our work force for those type of jobs? governor christie: i'll start with the last and then go to the first. you know, this is one of those situations where reform of our education system is so incredibly important. what you're talking about and what most businesses want is an education system that produces results. you know, i don't think the american people have shown any reluctance to invest significant moneys in our educational system. from k to 12, to community colleges, higher education in the four-year college and university space and graduate school. the problem is that, you're

still having problem finding enough people within our shores to address the needs of your business, that's the premise of your question. we need to make sure that we have an educational system that is providing the type of results that we have. we have to work on the potential of children not the comfort of adults. and unfortunately, especially in the k-12 system we're much more focused on the comfort of adults than we are on the potential of children. that's the only explanation for not having a longer school day and longer school year in this country. the only explanation. our school calendar is ridiculous. it's based on the agrarian calendar. i can tell you even in the garden state, kids are not leaving school in june to go and till the fields, -- the fields everybody. [laughter] it's not happening anymore. and the fact is, why don't we then, like many of the other industrialized countries of the world have a longer school day and longer school year? we don't because the power and

the authority of the teachers' unions. that's it. that's the only reason why. you want better stem education those kids are in school from september to july. and they're in school until 5:00 or 6:00 rather than 2:00 or 2:30, and they're getting the type of exposure to all of the things that they need to to be able to improve those skills that will happen. just like in your business when you work better and harder and longer. almost invariably your results are better. so we need to have a national conversation about how we educate our children. we're still educating our children the same way we did in the 1800's. 20, 25 chairs and desks facing forward to a white board or black board with one person standing in front talking to them for a limited period of time each day, for a limited period of time each year. everything else in american life has been improved, modernized, but education. at its core, yes we use computers now it's one of the great moments when my

11-year-old daughter bridget started taking computers when she was 8. and she said dad when you were 8 who did you have for computers? [laughter] i said, no one. no one. the world has changed in that respect. but not much more in the world of education. my point to you in terms of, if you're ranked in the 20's in the industrial world in math and science, what makes you believe that 10 or 15 years from now we'll still be the number one economy? hope? prayer? we have to change this. and secondly, what i'm implying in my answer is, once you get a system that people are willing to buy into, then you can start having the discussions about quantitative and qualitative choices in legal immigration. but until you get to the base problem of what we permitted to happen over the last 25 to 30

years, and the feeling amongst so many people in our country that we're not willing to enforce the laws, why are they going to buy into a whole new set of laws that i think the government won't execute on. you are right. we have to have that conversation and the idea that if someone brings a particular quality or set of qualities, that that would help our country even more, that that's something that should be considered in the immigration process. you know, it's an important idea to discuss. but if we don't get to the underlying problem first, we're not going to ever get there. and you're going to continue to be frustrated. so let's get to the underlying problem, fix it, and then our frustrations will abate if not eliminate on this topic. >> next question. >> hi, governor, i'm carol corman with prison incorporated an i.t. services company. i want to get your opinion on the a.c.a. and how it's been set

up and the reporting. i'm baffled a little bit that even small certified businesses, and we're all about small businesses growing, yet under the a.c.a., small businesses are classified as large businesses in some cases. and i just wanted to get your opinion on that. governor christie: my opinion on the affordable care act is that it goes exactly in line with the philosophy i was talking about earlier in my remark and -- remarks and the difference between myself and the president. you know, let's look at my state of new jersey and let's pick the state of wyoming. what person in this room actually thinks that the health care challenges that i face for my population in new jersey of 8.9 million people in the most ethnically diverse state in the country, most densely populated state in the country, are the same as the health care challenges faced by governor meade in wyoming? you don't have to know anything, right, anything about health care to know those two places

are significantly different and face significantly different challenges. you understand that, i understand that, the president of the united states refuses to acknowledge it. the idea that you can have one national system that is going to appropriately, efficiently effectively address the health care needs of the population in new jersey and health care for the population in wyoming is ridiculous. and the core weakness of a.c.a., besides the factor you mentioned in terms of the nondisparate treatment of business, the tax increases, the mandates, all those things, the core problem is that this just won't work. because the challenges i face in new jersey are so significantly different than they face in other parts of the country and other states. we should be going to a system that's state-based. where governors work with the people in their state to say what is the best way to access health care in a state like ours?

and you know, the way businesses will be affected by that is when governments closer to you are making the decisions, you have much greater input. i know small business owners in my state. i work with them all the time for our economic development authority, through our local chambers of commerce. and they have access to policymakers in a way you'll never have access to federal policymakers in that way. so i'm a repeal and replace guy. i absolutely believe that obamacare is not salvageable and needs to go. but we also can't be the party that says, it needs to go and we'll get back to you in a couple of weeks about what actually we're going to do. the american people will not go for that dodge. and so we need to come out and talk as a party about what we want to do. and i will tell you that my inclination is going to a state-based system. because i just believe as a governor that, you know what gary herbert decides in utah versus what i decide in new jersey versus what matt meade decides in wyoming versus what

phil bryant decides in mississippi, are all smart specialized things we know about our states. we get input from folks leek -- folks like you. that's my view on it. the onerous nature of this is going to suffocate businesses, has already suffocated jobs and we know that. the 30-hour work week. all these things that are going on now surrounding a.c.a. has just suffocated economic growth and the president doesn't want to see it or acknowledge it because he believes in an omnipotent, omnipresent federal government and i don't. >> thank you. >> three more questions and that will be it. please keep the questions short, identify yourself first. >> jim toland. as a followup, clearly obamacare hasn't been the most popular legislation or program with the republican party. and it does seem like people talk about repeal and replace but there's much more focus on repeal.

and the question really is what's the replace? status quo wasn't working very well either. 50 million people uninsured, it's got to be more than we'll do it at the state level. what's the program to get a program that actually addresses the pathologies of the old system without baggage of the new? governor christie: we should get there and talk about it but take a deep breath. it's may 1. you know. i don't -- quite frankly, i think all of us have to go about this in a responsible way. there's been more emphasis on repeal. sure. you can't replace until you do repeal. so there's been more of an emphasis on repeal. but the fact is that all of us who are responsible and for those of us who decide to run for president, it's going to be our job to come forward with a specific plan and ideas. i would -- what i'm trying to give you is a window into my approach. i'm not going to sit here this

morning and lay out my entire plan for replacing obamacare with all due respect. we'll do that in a different setting that makes more sense. but what i'm telling you is the directional guidance i'm giving you is that i believe this is a problem that's much more appropriately dealt with at the state level than it is dealt with at the federal level. all you need to do is look at the growth of medicaid over the course of the last number of years. the last 25 years, medicaid has grown over 800%. and the economy has grown 200%. so you know, this system where the state pays for half of the cost but has almost no influence on the rules, which is where we're headed and where we are with obamacare, i think is a failure. and i think we're in the same spot. we will be in the same spot with this kind of exponential growth if we allow obamacare to continue. >> but isn't that the same dodge --? >> this is not a time for discussion. next question please.

>> governor, my name is paul stide, i'm with effective communications in reston, also i'm a native of mendham, new jersey. governor christie: my hometown. >> two questions about superstorm sandy. how in your estimation is the recovery going? and how have the events of superstorm sandy shaped you as a man and shaped you as a leader? governor christie: on the recovery, the recovery is going very well. now our businesses are back up and running. our jersey shore tourism last year set a record year. in the second year after sandy. and most of the new jerseyans who lost their homes are back in their homes. whenever i say that, i'm mindful of the people who are still not back in their homes. and there are some who are still

not back in their homes. and so i always say to people, the recovery is going really well unless you're not back in your home. if you're not back in your home the recovery is going miserably. so, you know one of the problems , in the aftermath of katrina was that there was significant rampant fraud in louisiana. and as a result, the federal government does what federal and state governments do all the time. they play the last game rather than the next game. they look at what happened and they made the rules on aid so onerous, not on the state necessarily, but on the individuals in terms of proof and paperwork, that it held up a lot of what's going on. i think h.u.d. in particular has seen this over time and have begun to loosen up on those things and allowed taos get -- and allowed us to get those people who are not in their homes at a much faster pace. we've spent billions of dollars already.

we've increased resiliency in our states so when the next storm comes things will be better. i think overall the recovery has gone well. when you think about this, when i woke up on the morning after sandy, 365,000 homes had been destroyed. in 24 hours. 365,000 homes. we had no power in more than 2/3 s of the state. we had 50-plus gas stations open and operational. most of the state highways were closed. all the schools were closed. there was no wastewater treatment plants in the state. it was as big a disaster as any state has ever ever sustained. and we're back on our feet and people are back in our homes and economic activity has resumed so i feel very good about that. in terms of me, i can only tell you that in 2011, there were lots of people who urged me to run for president. and when i made the decision not to, i did something my political advisors said i should never

say. i was asked, of course if you would be when you say you're not running for president i was asked why and i said because i'm not ready. and my advisor was like, no, no, no. that will last forever of you not saying you're ready to be president. you can't say that. i said, well, it's true. sandy went a long way toward making me ready. when you sit around a table and you get the reports of that destruction and that level of pain and loss, and then everybody, your cabinet, your law enforcement, your national guard all sit around the table and after they report all that they then look at you and say, ok, what are we going to do? you get prepared as a leader in those moments like nothing else can prepare you. because you have a blank piece of paper in front of you. and human suffering all around you. and everybody, not just the people around the table but everybody in the state is

looking to you to say, please fix this. please help. and that's why when i was going through sandy, i never spent more than half a day in the emergency operations center. from the day after sandy forward, i would spend half the day in the emergency operation center with all the different people i had to talk to, get briefed by and give instructions to. and i would always spend half the day in one of the towns that had been destroyed to actually remind myself all the time about who i was doing this for and what they really were concerned about. and i can't tell you in the beginning how emotionally impactful that was. to walk into a town like belmar which i did on the first day after the storm, a jersey shore town, and have a woman come up to me and grab me and begin to hug me and say into my ear, i've lost everything. you're the only person who can help me. those are moments in my life that i'll never forget and have

changed me as a person and have molded me as a leader. but in the end what people want is the truth. they want you to be decisive. they want you to be present. in their lives. when they feel as if their lives are at risk. and so sandy has changed me in every way that sandy could change somebody, that something like that could possibly do to both your mind and your heart and i would have never wished that on my state, ever, ever. and hope and pray it never happens to anybody again at that level of devastation. but we learned from it. we're a better state because of it in the end. and once we get everybody back in their homes i'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief and say, you know, mission accomplished. but until that time you can't. you just keep plugging every every day. [applause]

>> one more question. >> governor christie, this is isha chaudra, i'm with a global insurance brokerage. can you talk about the importance of having honest conversations with the american people. and i would like to know how to balance the receptivity of receiving that information from the american people coming from politicians. governor christie: everybody approaches this business differently. i'm someone who always tries to err on the side of letting people know what i really think. [laughter] [applause] this has to do with how i was

raised. we're all a product of our parents, right? sometimes we're thrilled about that, sometimes we're not. i know my children will spend a significant time complaining to someone about something i did that i really thought was good when i did it but obviously i was completely wrong, right? we're all products of our parents. i grew up in a house with an irish father and a sicilian mother. [laughter] now, you all know what this means. this means i became at a very young age expert at conflict resolution. alright. i am the oldest son in that family and it's not that my mom was argumentative. it's just that she never found an argument that wasn't worth having. in her view. you know? and she used to tell us whatever was bothering her all the time we'd say like, mom, enough, stop.

she'd say to me, no, no, no, no, i'm getting this off my chest and i'm getting it off right now, you're going to listen. there will be no deathbed confessions in this family you're hearing it now. [laughter] [applause] and i will tell you that, you know, it forms who you are right? the ethic i was taught is if there was a problem, talk about it now. if there's an issue get it off your chest. if you feel something, let people know it. and so it's hard then to get into politics and say, i'm going to conduct myself completely differently than the way i've conducted myself for the 40-plus years before i got involved in politics. my mom used to say to me all the time, christopher, be yourself. because then tomorrow you don't have to worry about remembering who you pretended to be yesterday. it's great advice. and i'll end with this, to give you greater insight to the

impact this has on real lives. i'm talking about my mom in the past tense because she passed away 11 years ago next week. and she is the formative figure in my life and i tease my father all the time, he comes to my town hall meetings, i say, to understand my parent's relationship, in the automobile of life my father was the passenger. [laughter] and he really doesn't like that but -- but i do so what the hell. [laughter] my mom in february of 2004 was on valentine's day was diagnosed with lung cancer. and she had been a lifetime smoker. and her disease progressed very quickly. and so by the end of april of 2004, i was at the u.s.

attorney's national conference in san diego and i got a call from my younger brother saying to me, listen, mom's back in the hospital. it is really bad. if you want to see her, you have to get home now. i booked a redeye and i flew back to new jersey and landed at newark airport and got in the car and drove to the hospital. and i got there and they started to give her morphine and i waited for her to wake up. she had not seen me for a week and said what day is it? i said it's friday. she said what time is it? i said 9:30 in the morning. she said go to work. [laughter] i said, mom, i decided to take the day off. i'm going to spend the day with you. she said christopher, it is a work day, go to work. i said are you afraid i'm taking

advantage of taxpayers' money. i will make up the time. don't worry about it. she grabbed my hand and she said go to work it's where you belong there's nothing left unsaid between us. and you know what? she was right. because of the way she taught me to conduct our lives. that thing she used to say all the time, you are going to hear it now. there are no deathbed confessions in this family. she was right. there didn't need to be. i knew she loved me. i knew the things she wanted to change about me, but ran out of time to do it. right? i knew all that. so i leaned over and kissed her and i said ok, i'm going to work and i left and i never saw her again. but she let me go. if you want to understand the balance, in me, the balance is

what i'm thinking in here what should i say or shouldn't i say, i think of her. and i think if she were here now to watch the circus that my life has become, she would say two things to me. first thing she would say, remember, i changed your diapers, don't act like a big shot to me. she had said that when i was u.s. attorney. and second, i could only imagine what she would say now. and secondly, she would say these people trusted you with the most important job they could give you in the state you were born and raised. you owe the person that. and so that's where i come down on the balance and has nothing to do with political calculation and everything to do with who i am and in the end, if you lose that, you have no business being a leader any way. be who you are.

thereupon to be some days where some people will like it and there may be some days where i may some things, maybe i want to phrase differently upon reflection. [laughter] but here's the one thing that all of you will learn about me you will never have to wonder is that how he thinks, how he feels, and is that what he is going to do or does he mean it when he says he's not going to do. if that's your cup of tea, new jersey has said we like this guy. we will vote for him. and if i decide to run for anything again, if people like that, then that's what they'll get. if they don't, then i'll go home. but either way i'm going to be who i am and that's the balance. in my head. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

>> thank you, governor christie, for your honesty. >> she embraced the role of first lady and wore the finest fashions like a queen. posting politicians to help her husband. during the war of 1812, when british troops invaded, she is credited with saving a portrait of george washington and other valuable. dolly madison, sunday night at 8 p.m. eastern on "first lady." looking at the women who fill the position and their influence on the position. on american history tv on c-span3. c-span's new book is now

available, presidential historians on the lives of 45 american women. providing stories that is an illuminating and inspiring read. available as a hard book or an e-book from your favorite bookseller. here are a few of the book festivals we will be covering on c-span2 in may, we visit the gaithersburg festival with martin frost. as well as david axelrod. and we close out may at book expo america in new york city. then on the first weekend of june, we are live for the "chicago. tribune" expo and your phone calls. that is the spring on c-span2 --

book tv. >> ohio governor john kasich is among those considering a run for president in 2016. the two-term governor talked about baltimore immigration same-sex marriage, and his position to expand medicaid under the law. this is just under an hour. >> thank you all for coming. our guest today is ohio governor john kasich. this is his sixth visit with our group. the last appearance was in 1997. it has been too long. we are glad he is back. our guest was born in pennsylvania and moved to ohio to attend the ohio state university.

after graduation he worked for a state legislator and at age 26 he ran a door-to-door campaign for state senator, becoming the youngest member ever elected to the ohio senate. in 1982, he eventually served as the chairman of the house budget committee where he was a key art intact for the act of 1997. he left congress in 2001 and became an executive at lehman brothers and the host of a fox news program. he was elected governor in 2010 and won an overwhelming victory in his bid for reelection last year. so much for his biography now on , to this afternoon's mechanics. as always we are on the record here. no live blogging or tweeting. no filing of any kind while the breakfast is underway. to help you resist that urge, we will e-mail you pictures. to all of the reporters here, as soon as the breakfast and.

if you would like to ask a question, please do a traditional thing and send me a subtle nonthreatening signal. i will happily call on one end -- one and all in the time we have available. we will offer our guests the opportunity to make opening comments and we will move to questions around the table. thank you for doing this, the floor is yours. governor kasich: i think this is the first time i have been in washington twice in one week since 2000 when i walked out of this place. so something must be going on , for me to be here. this often. it is nice to be back and be with all of you. i remember all of the old breakfasts i used to do that in the old days when washington -- people got along and you can discuss things. i am thrilled to be back here and honored you would come. >> we will start around the table with david jackson, phil

rucker. elizabeth warner. carolyn ryan. read epstein, david lowder john gizzi. that should keep us going. you are obviously thinking about running for president. is there a niche that you see yourself filling in the party? as you told chuck todd in meet the press that what you had was more experience than anyone else in the field. governor kasich: not only having been in the legislature and congress but being chairman of the budget committee -- not just talking about it dollars budget but being one of the architects to achieve it, and that i spent 18 years on the armed services

committee. so i have had extensive national security experience. i went on for 10 years to find out if all of the things i have been talking about were true. turns out most of them were. and then i entered to become governor at one of the lowest points in that states history -- an $8 billion hold, 350,000 private sector jobs, credit hanging in the balance. put a great team back together we are now structurally balanced. we are running a $2 billion surplus, credit is strong. and we are up 340,000 jobs. of a good resume -- i have a good friend who used to say don't tell me, show me. we have tried to show people what we have been doing. the only thing i would tell you is it seems like the media tries to figure out who i am.

or whatever. as one person said, you seem to be an enigma. i don't know why that is. the country has a lot of problems. whether you are a republican or democrat, the anxiety is not that much different. i don't look at people in quadrants. what is a republican think, what does a democrat think you go for me it is about what americans think. can they make more money, is there a place for them, can i kid get a college education without mortgaging everything you have? how do i keep my kids off of drugs. what about my neighborhood? these are all things. last year i spoke at the atlantic magazine conference.

which was really interesting. and then i went over to this thing called the new american, i thought it was center-right. turned out to be centerleft. everybody has the same concerns. in terms of my willingness to put myself in the box, i look at politics on a traditional way. i think you can be successful in that election in ohio. i was able to win 86 out of 88 counties. 26% of the african american votes, 50% of union households. 60% of women. and it was really satisfying to be able to do that. i think it was the basis of the people that the state felt better. as i like to say economic growth , is not an end to itself. we do everything we can to make

sure that everybody can feel included, that everybody has a stake. that everybody can rise. i will try not to go to long today. david: you have spoken about helping others. everything you have ever done to let someone else, to give them some hope. if just one person it will be in , the book of life and follow you through eternity. given that what is your take on , what, if anything, the federal government should be doing to ameliorate the kind of conditions causing the explosions in baltimore? governor kasich: just two days ago i unveiled i think the only program of a country involving police and community. i had 20 plus people on this task force. i had towo co-chairman.

the first was head of the highway patrol, head of public safety. the second was an african-american woman who ran for secretary of state. she is a fixture on msnbc. doesn't matter to me. nina turner and john bourne along with african-american ministers, along with police representation, as this people political figures all set down with a consensus. the two immediate things we were doing was a statewide standard on use of deadly force. secondly, spelled out efforts on recruitment and hiring of minorities.

we are going to move into a phase where we have a community collaborative. the purpose of which is to develop additional standards whether it involves data collection, the transparency should be available to people whenever there is an incident. the ability to move police and community together. and have them integrated. we studied what they did in wat ts and cincinnati. the supposedly problems of years ago. we put meat on the bones. some of the areas we think are important. we await the decision in cleveland. i am a extremely aware of it. that was timely.

we set this up months ago. now we have to be in the community. the law enforcement community knows that we are serious about improving these relationships. but i have been very involved in a lot of other activities related to -- i don't want to get carried away, but the issues of poverty. including criminal justice reform. involved in the community in terms of fixing the cleveland schools. we are seeing dramatic improvements in cleveland. i am proud of what we are seeing in cleveland. we have now created a mentoring program. i have two important african-american women. in my cabinet, one runs welfare the other runs economics. i believe that mentoring and

person-to-person in the schools, encouraging, loving, showing people a different way of life what can be achieved, they have told me that. in cincinnati there is a thing called the cincinnati collaborative. the graduation rate is 63%, made up fundamentally of minorities. where they mentor for one year. the graduation rate is 97%. i believe that is critical. as you know, i expanded medicaid to bring dollars home. so we can deal with some of our most vexing problems. we are involved in corrections reform. we have a low recidivism rate. relatively speaking, to the national average of 27%. compared to a 50% recidivism rate. we are treating people for mental illness. and drug addiction. we are involved big time in terms of workforce training, making sure people get trained for jobs that exist.

reforming our entire welfare program. beginning now in ohio, when you go to a welfare office, you have somebody to coordinate your care, just kind of like we see in health care. so that the person can get the help and training they need and they are held personally responsible for what they do. it is a whole series of things that have allowed me to be in the communities. and i am doing it. for the first time in ohio we actually meet our set-aside provisions. i will give you one other example. we have a highway program and we are building a highway to the cleveland clinic. we were able to set aside dollars to put -- to put aside $3 million. i may be off on the numbers.

but 20% of that to minority contractors. i have made it clear we are not going to shut people off. there's a tendency to high -- to highway people. we need to build entrepreneurship in all minority communities. we need to stress into our women and children, regardless of race. i want to make sure everybody has a sense that they can get somewhere, that they can be lifted. that they share in the american dream. i have to tell you we are , involved aggressively. in fighting infant mortality in our poor areas. we are running strong anti-drug programs. when you do a variety of things, i have a great team that works on this.

when you do those things, you begin to develop some credibility and connections. there is a lot more to go before i sleep. david jackson, from usa today. david jackson: how do you break out of what is a historically large republican field? governor kasich: the first thing i am determining whether i would have the resources to win. if i don't see a path to victory i'm not going to do that. i love being governor. we are optimistic that we will have the resources to move forward. let me ask you a question, do you think it will be hard for me to distinguish myself from a group of politicians?

i'm going to do the best to talk to people i care about. i went up to new hampshire, idle people who i am. i told them what i was concerned about. and what i am concerned about is frankly the drip of our country. i said there are two types of relationships that need to be healed. one is the relationship with our allies. europe, central europe, middle east -- i think those relationships have eroded over time. not just with obama, over time. we don't have the deep relationships we need to be unified and send strong messages to people who clearly send strong messages back. the second area that needs to be healed is the relationship between republicans and democrats on capitol hill. we have a seeming inability to have things work. i just ran into a democrat senator.

at that correspondence dinner. she said, john you just wouldn't believe just how polarized every is. america's inability to solve problems makes us weaker, hurts our kids, our families. it also sends a message to people around the world that america is losing its strength. that is not helpful to our allies and clearly our enemies. so i'm going to talk about the , things i'm concerned about. if it works, great. if it doesn't work, i may still have realized my dream of being on the pga tour. i've been around this -- he mentioned my first election in 1978. there is nobody here but jack who would remember, john might remember -- in 1978, ir ran

against an incumbent. he was a democrat senator, he had a dam named after him. we have a representative here from croatia. people thought a croatian was something that climbed out of the ocean. i ended up winning that election with one of the most shocking upsets in modern ohio history. it's what i do. i am a retail guy. i'm going to communicate as best as i can. i was the only republican to defeat an incumbent democrats in 1982. iran with reagan ran with reagan.

i won reelection. i beat an incumbent. what is really interesting is obama carried cuyahoga county by 40 points. i won the county. either i got it or i don't. it will be up to the folks to determine. i'm optimistic. i have had good receptions in detroit and south carolina and new hampshire. i'm just going to do the best i can. we will see. i tried this before. you have the resources you go away. >> your foreign policy in the middle east would look different then president obama's. if you were the next president. would your middle east policy -- in discussing what you're middle east policy would look like, can you tell us where you are in dealings with iran and your position on a bill pending in the senate that would give congress the ability to weigh in but also without a vote of

disapproval. that was veto-proof. governor kasich: there were two interesting stories in the paper today. i don't know if they were both in the new york times or not. i read both of them today. you read the editorial page in the wall street journal, you begin to understand. let me not say. i don't want to get into this. how about this guy that was driving the $75,000 lamborghini in iran and got into an accident and killed himself and the woman in the car with him. i don't understand exactly what is happening with social media in iran, but what is emerging is this bitterness toward those who have and those who don't have. those who have the special freedoms and those who don't, which speaks to me about the potential of unrest over time and regime change.

you lift the sanctions and make everything hunky-dory and you are going to have an ayatollah for a long time. i'm not telling you i think that is where the ayatollah will go. but it is far more likely when economic pressure is on that country. people begin to see these things. secondly, the fact we are negotiating with the country -- and we are going to put our naval presence in the gulf, because we are worried -- i think the quotes was we are worried about what our friends might do. i think that was in the paper today. if somebody is throwing bricks through my window and i'm afraid what they will do to me, i don't know how i make a deal with them based on trust. i'm concerned of a lot of things around this deal. one is the proliferation of not just these weapons but also the materials. these materials are very dangerous when in the hands of

people like hamas, hezbollah and god knows what group will pop up next. a dirty bomb was a different thing. a dirty bomb is a terrible thing. if exploded in new york. for that matter, god forbid. the other thing is -- i don't even know the united states and iranians agree on what it is. the ayatollah says we are going to lift all sanctions. they're not going to expect -- they're not going to inspect military bases. the first thing you have to do is make sure you are in agreement for what the agreement says. i worry about something that i have extremes being in congress. don't fall in love with your proposal or your idea. you know i look at things pretty , simply. you go to the car dealership and you want to buy a new car you , are so hungry to get that car

you will pay anything for it. a very silly way to do anything. that is a tiny little minor thing. but if you fall in love in getting an agreement on this whole nuclear weapons issue. no matter what you do you keep , responding to the ayatollah's position. i saw when the ayatollah said sanctions have to be lifted immediately and the president said something a couple of days later about maybe we can work on this, that signals falling in love with the deal. i think the economic pressure ought to be kept on the country. the issue is, because of our deteriorating relationships with some of our allies, can we? this is very serious. we try to trust the north koreans for many years and now we are worried they have a nuclear arsenal. countries in asia are talking about building nuclear weapons. if everybody has a nuclear weapon we know the possibility of their use goes up significantly. do i think the senate should have say? absolutely.

i have been reading i saw that , bob corker worked something out. it should be extremely strong. i think it will be treated as a treaty. that is my sense. in terms of national security policies -- israel is our great ally and we need to support them. and they live an extremely dangerous environment. we don't have to tell anybody that. we also have allies we have shared values with, the jordanians for example. the saudis. the problem is i think , administration after administration has been too soft on the saudis. women can't leave the country. that's just the little things. think about the funding of some of these organizations that are are intent on not only destroying us but israel in a boomerang, we have been too easy on them. the egyptians have been an ally. i'm glad to see the president

has resumed military aid to egypt. that is a dose of reality. in terms of national security, i'm really surprised that we have not been able to gather tougher sanctions. against vladimir putin. we have not had the tough talk or action. in terms of how we conduct foreign policy it is our vital , interest. but i am a person who thinks we should be involved in nation-building. i'm not a believer in nation-building. we have a military that is mobile and lethal. we can exert force and be successful and come home. there are ways where we can have common interest with some groups who may or may not be allies. i think we missed a great opportunity in syria, to be able to build support. i look at iran, i look at

hezbollah -- i am extremely concerned about turkey. one of the things we have to ask ourselves, one of the things we have to ask ourselves is did europe make a mistake by saying turkey didn't do well enough to be included with us. this is a big important country. we need to have good relations there. we need to be strong. the other thing i would tell you is when we are weak economically and we ring up all this debt people own our debt its limits , our ability to conduct this robust foreign policy. that is why i support a balanced budget amendment. i see we have this deal in congress. i'm going to have the chocolate cake today but i'm going on a diet next year. it is typical. this debt is a serious problem for our country.

and our inability to address it is terrible. >> it is reported bobby jindal and nicky haloey have accused you of hiding behind jesus. it did that happen and what is your response to that? what response do you get to republican primary voters why you did that? governor kasich: i'm really not hiding behind anybody. i am here this lunch. i don't have anybody protecting be here. let's get to the nub of medicaid. ok? first of all, the last republican i can think of is ronald reagan. people tend to forget that. he expanded medicaid. here is what i was faced with. i have money i can bring home to ohio. it is my money.

there is no money in washington. it is people who live in my state. what do we do with the money? we have 10,000 people sitting in prisons who are mentally ill. first of all we have more people , sitting in prisons in america than we have psychiatric hospitals. people who are mentally ill. that is horrible. that is a failure on our part to d institutionalize and get them on their feet. in a position where they work. many people with mental illnesses can. in our communities we have the ability to treat the mentally ill. you know there are things that , can happen with the mentally ill. where they get themselves in trouble not even knowing what they're doing. i don't want to put them in prison, have them come out, have to make another mistake, have

them come back in prison, cost $250,000 -- cost money to be in prison. most of the people in prisons around this country are people who have -- they committed other crimes. but they have substance problems, addiction problems. addiction problems. what we are doing now is in the prisons actually giving them rehabilitation. then we release them in the community where they meet a community advocate and not a drug dealer. the revolving door is you go in and come out and go in and come out. that isn't working. our recidivism rate for them, we think would be 10%. that is worth doing. take the working poor. now the working poor without any health insurance end up in our emergency rooms. they end up sicker and more

costly. i think it makes more sense to try to get them care so they can get the preventive care they need and then remove the barriers they need to climb up and have better work. they are the working poor. on all these programs i want to quote my mother who used to say johnny it is a sin not to help those who need help, but it is equally a sin to help people who need to learn how to help themselves. we are in the process of reforming the welfare system. we are not going to give something and that is the end of it. we are asking for personal responsibility. addiction is tough. addiction is no longer what people think the population that does it. now we see heroine deaths from

kids who could have been born and raised in chevy chase. other people have other ways to deal with it, but that is what we are doing in ohio. we are beginning to see a trend of emergency room visits by the poor at about the same rate as everybody else, which means it is going to work. that also means we have to have a robust job-creating economy. i want to get them off. in terms of the spiritual side, i don't care if people believe the way i do. all people are made in the image of god, and everybody deserves respect. i was here last friday. a guy raised his hand and had the big i insurance. all these people are getting all these benefits, and how are

you ever going to win an election blah-blah-blah. i said wait a minute. let's just stop and think for a second. you have a young boy. he grows up in an environment when he wakes up in the morning he hears gunshots. he doesn't want to leave his house. we had a case in cincinnati where the neighborhood was so dangerous, kids didn't want to leave. then when he gets to school or going to school, he meets somebody on drugs. then he doesn't know who his family really is. he has no roll models. you have a question here. do we take that person, and do we say they are not worth paying attention to? or do we take that person and do we say that god knows if we can get them on their feet, who knows what their potential is. maybe they will cure cancer. so to me there is no lost human

beings. in our prisons if we have very bad people, we will lock them up forever. but even in prison, if you want to work your way out get a skill and be a productive member of society, you can. i think everybody is concerned about this. when i ran for re-election as governor, this is what i talked to republican crowds about. i didn't go out there and talk about obama, or hillary or anything else. i talked about what we have done what we do for people who live in the shadows. and guess what? there are a lot of people in this country, unfortunately, who has a niese, or a nephew other a son or a daughter who has depression. we know a lot of people in this country now -- unfortunately too many people -- whose son died from a heroine overdose. they are not republican or dempster. they are every mother and father's concern. so from the spiritual side from me i feel an obligation to do

what i can to help lift people. but giving them something is not all there is about it. it is to get them out of the situation so they can rise. i was involved in welfare reform, very involved with it. that program has worked, and it needs improved. one final thing on that. you realize that now if you are the father, you can't be in the family. you make any money, we throw you out or you have to go hide. what a system. if you are a working mom, and you get a bonus, you lose your child care. who is going to take a bonus if they lose a bigger benefit than they gain? that is a simple thing. i know it is a long answer, but there are not simple glib little answers to these problems. >> i am going to go out of the announced order so that we go

to every organization for one before we go to anyone for a second. mr. stanton? >> you said you want to be washington more collegiate yam. huge elements of your party most of the house conference look at compromises as an absolute no-no. how do you do that? what is your prescription? >> one at a time. you talk to people one at a time. when i was budget committee chairman. if you go back and talk to democrats about how i ran the bug committee. i have a lot of friends. republicans would say we are going to do this burget mark up and why don't we shut them

up in four hours? i said i am not going to shut anybody up, and we may be here is it hours. my mother taught me about pressure cookers. the leaders have to be able to explain to people that you don't have to compromise your principals to be a compromiser. when we can't fix social security immigration infrastructure, where do you think that leaves us? we can't billion the budget, we can't bring corporate profits home. whether you are a republican, dempster -- democrat, liberal? who pays? i have two 15-year-old daughters. they pay. the community pays for failure. i am a believer. i am an optimist in the way in which people can see a better

way. i think it is going to take a lot of work. it may be easier to fix our relationships between foreign leaders than it is between republicans and democrats. but they are vital. we just passed a bill on lake eerie. we had a unanimous vote in the hold-outs and in the senate and endorsement from the farm bureau and the environmental grooms. unanimous both houses. we passed a -- an de fratus bill unanimous. cleveland school reform, really tough stuff virtually unanimous. just because somebody thinks differently than you that's ok. i was involved in a government shut-down in 1995. but you don't poison the well. i am sorry, but we can't reach

an agreement here, i have to walk away from the table which is exactly what we ought to do with regard to iran. you walk away froo the table, but you have to get answers. i have talked to jim jordan. he is a good man. he gets it. he will give when he sees the good argument. i don't give up on this. but lead ertz have to be involved with both parties. i get frustrated. i am frustrated with things going on now in my state. you don't give up. this is america. >> phil rucker from the post. >> republicans say they are looking for a governor that has record who have reform. there are governors from three important mid we were states,

you, governor snyder and the governor of wisconsin. what have you done in ohio? >> i am not going to get into why i am better than these other folks. i will tell you you can't be president if you don't win ohio. that is not even a question. they are all fine men. they have done a good job. what i am most concerned about is what happens in ohio. what is happening in ohio is the economic both. it got almost 64% of the vote. that is a reflection of the gains we have made. i like snyder. they were all in the republican governors' association. they are all good people. nice bait, but i ain't taking it. >> but are there specific things you have done in ohio that they haven't been able to do? >> why don't you research that and we will get back to you.

some people will say is he conservative enough? one of the architects involved in balancing the bulge. i come into the state $8 billion in the hole and now with a $2 billion surplus. we killed the death tax and helping small businesses. i really wish i could sake credit for all this, but i have really smart people. a team. >> i would love to give you a short answer but the problem with these things is they are not simple. >> you talked to cnn a couple of weeks ago and they asked you if you would attend a gay wedding. you said you had been invited

to one and planned to attend. yet you remain someone who believes government should define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. you see couples you know personally should be allowed to get married but people you don't should not? >> ohio passed a constitutional amendment that is marriage is between a man and a woman and anything that prom makes that. if it gets changed and a friend invites me to the wedding my biggest question is going to be what time is it? >> so you believe marriage should be between a man and a woman? >> yes. >> why is it different for people you know personally? >> i am for marriage as defined between a man and a woman. if the supreme court changes

that those changes have to be respected. i have a number of friends who are gay. i like them. they know how i feel about this but i am fine. if they want me to go. i care about them. i go. i don't usually go to weddings of people i don't know. i don't go to them. but if somebody that i like is getting married in the traditional sense or non-traditional sense, i am not hung up about it. we can beat this horse to death, but my position about it has been clear forever. >> called for equiping all police officers with body cameras. >> we have a very comprehensive set of recommendations and mayweather on the bomes of

recommendations to come. they have agreed to look at the grand jury process as well. i know you are interested. i will get to you the details of what we have already done. it is extremely comprehensive. training is an issue. transparency is an issue. having law enforcement in the community and the community embraces law enforcement is a vital part. on the issue of body cameras. we had a man in ohio whose family bought him a body camera. he was an iraq veteran. he had a very close confrontation with somebody, and he did a fantastic job. we hold him up as a hero for what he was able to do, and he had a body camera on. i would have to think about it and go back to my people who are experts and say is this

really going to make a big difference? i am fine with it if they say yo. >> there has been a debate heating up more recently on immigration policy. governor walker said the other day that the country should consider having fewer immigrants and voiced a concern about immigrants lowers wages. governor bush said that was wrong-headed and zero sum thinking. >> they are fighting together. >> i would like to draw you into that fight. >> everybody is in a terp imp tter down there in florida. we have is it million people that are here. the border hasn't been protected. it needs to be protected. if you can't control who comes in and out of your home, you have chaos. the same is true for our done.

so border protection is something that absolutely should be done. it should be first. but there are, that we can unite both parties around, i would hope. so what i have said is i would like to know who they are, if they have a sponsor,. if they are engaged in criminal activity, they should be deporteded on the pass to citizenship or legalization, i think they could be one and the same. here is what i would say. i take another off the table when it comes to a negotiation like this. i would refer not to have a path to citizenship. the reason why i wouldn't prefer a path to citizenship is i have tried to tell my

daughters, you don't ditch the line to get taylor swift tickets. if you didn't get there at the right time, you don't get them. i don't like when people finch the line. my view is you are going to have to sit down and negotiate this. and i am open to where we would go on this. prefering not to go to citizenship, but i wouldn't take anything off the table, and we have to deal with this issue. look if you're going to worry about who shutouts the loudest on anything, you don't make any progress. i had 28% approval after my first year. you have to work to do that poorly. and you saw how the election turned out. do your job. this idea that i have to test the wind or do a focus droop to figure out how i feel -- there

may be questions i have not thought about. those will come up, like going to a gay wedding. they are kind of wedge shoes. but most of the time i kind of know what i think. i kind of know how i feel about something. you can't run around trying to pleases everybody. you have to just be a leader. that is kind of the way i have run my life and it has worked out pretty well. >> we have nine or 10 questions. >> i will try to be shooter. >> we are going to do one or so and try to get you out on time. >> to eric for the last question. >> the trade bill before congress right now has divided people. what do you think of it and

could you comment on any liability for senator portman in backing the fact track bill? >> i am not in congress now. i don't have access to you will a the details. i have expressed my concern on how it relates to the workers. u.s. steel makes a big investment in ohio. then they claim they are being dumped on by the koreans. i supported nafta, but i am also pleased to see that people are raising serious questions about what we do with those who are replaced. i am concerned about the government being so above everything that when they see a trade violation they don't do anything about it. i think we have a long way to go on this bill. i am fundamentally open to be

open, but not to do anything that would destroy our manufacturing ignorpts. i know that portman had an amendment on currency manipulation. maybe that would be included and it could be a positive step. my concern is trade is good, open is good, but at the end of the day it needs to be fair? [inaudible question] >> i have to see what it is at the end. as governor they are asking me what would you do 0 this bill? let's get to my desk first. >> caroline rhymes last question. >> and then two more. [laughter] go ahead. >> i am looking for a very concise answer. revisions to the tax code and

where are you on carried interest? >> revisions on the tax code. i am in conversations now with steep forbes about his flat tax. the beauty of his plan is this. number one, you can have the plan i am suggesting, which is flat, or you can take the traditional tax. i have asked him about the distribution tables, and he said they are pretty good. i have been concerned about the issue of dynamic scoring. he said john if we open up the floodgates, we will have significance growth in the early years and then returns to the mean. i am interested in that. is his simpler and flatter, and if you don't like it you can keep the current system to me. i don't think now is the time

to change carried interest. we need the investment. our venture capital for example particularly with google and paypal and these things. i don't want to do anything that is going to hinder investment. maybe there is concern about it, but at this point i wouldn't change it. i think the corporate tax rate is to high. i called an official and asked them to bring the money back. they said the money might go to shareholders. i said we need to get that money here. that corporate tax rate has to come down. >> you have proposed again cutting income taxes in your

state, raising sales taxes and other excise taxes. >> right. >> you talked earlier about the poor. >> first of all, we have significant attach relief for those at the bottom too, like others. we created the first earned income tax in ohio, which was praised by several grooms. we are significantly increasing the person example. in states i believe it is a lot better to be reducing the tax on risk-taking and incentives for investment and i think giving people an ability to choose with consumption rather

than income will lead to a faster growing ohio. special interest grooms say don't touch us. they are powerful groups who want to protect their own sax system. i understand that. but in the greater good for higher when we look around the country, the fastest growing states don't tax income. you lock at texas and florida and new hampshire. look at the growth in nevada from people pleefing california , from massachusetts moving into new hampshire. i believe incentivizing those things, that is rorm. we have made pro gress.

they are right there in the trenching with those who are poor. i said look, we have to get people jobs. the single biggest cure for poverty in ohio is a job thavement is what i am out to do. thank you. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] >> this weekend the c-span cities tour has partnered about e- with cox to learn about the people of topeka kansas. >> when the act was signed in

1854, the very act of just signing that piece of paper was viewed by people from missouri as an act of war. when northerners decided that if popular sovereignty will decide the fate of kansas, we are going to send people to settle, that was viewed as an act of war by people from missouri. there were raids across the border almost immediately. john brown, his sons and a couple of other formers dragged five men from their cabins, and they are shot and hacked to death with broad swords. that effectively cleared that area of southern settlers. >> here in topeka if you looked at the schools standing outside, you would be hard pressed to determine whether white students or

african-american students attend. the school bored really did give all the resources that white schools had. after graduated elementary schools, they attended integrated high schools. they saw the injustice having to attend separate elementary schools, the african-american community was very proud of their schools because these were excellent facilities. while there was support for the idea of integration, there was resistance especially from the teachers and the local chapter of the naacp, who feared the loss those institutions and jobs. >> watch all of our events on topeka saturday on book tv, and sunday on american history tv.

>> next, a conversation with former south florida governor jeb bush. he sat down with national review editor richard lowrie to talk about protests in baltimore, immigration and foreign policy issues. this was part of a summit in washington, d.c.. it is just under an hour. hi, everyone. yeah. that was fun. we are ready for the next portion of our program. our next guest needs introduction. it is two terms as florida governor, he was the most successful reform governor in america, and we are pleased to have with us today former governor jeb bush. jeb bush: thank you. [applause] rich: we have some journalists

here with the news hole to fill. i am trying to think the question of sufficient gravity to drive the news cycle of the next two or three hours. this what i came up with your has. if elected, we you consider having "w" do your official portrait? jeb bush: heck no. i think his early work was a little too primitive, i would like to wait for his postmodern era for he paints me. he is ask a gotten a little better. he stood with dogs, now he does landscapes and gives paintings to people who are his friends because they know they will have value. rich: let's talk about the news this week, the situation in

baltimore. it has become less a debate over specifically what might have happened and the death of freddie gray, less about the handling of the riots, and more the bigger question of who or what is responsible for the state of baltimore and what we can do about it. what is your take about that big question, who or what has failed baltimore? jeb bush: it's important to reflect on the fact that this young man died, and that is a tragedy for the family. this is not justice at his day this is a person who died. there were a lot of people who lost their lives because of this. when you do be respectful of private property. allowing the riots to happen was disturbing. you can't just push that over and go to the grand societal problems. i think that public safety is the first try ready for any city or government jurisdiction.

in this case, a lot of people will suffer because of what happened. hopefully, order will be restored. i think it sends the wrong signal to not have a baseball game with people in it. i think we need to recognize that life doesn't just get paralyzed when tragedies occur. you cannot allow that to happen because it might create more of them. now that i have that out of the way, i think that the tendency on the left is to blame -- to create a set of reasons why this happens. the president's view on this i thought he started pretty well by talking about -- there was a sentence in his response about the decline of families in urban core america, and i think that is absolutely true. there is much broader issues that go along with this.

the path ologies that are being built, the people that are stuck in poverty. you are more likely to stay poor. i believe conservatives have a better approach. his approach is to say that conservatives have an offered enough money to get me to be on to create programs to let people be successful. at what point do we go past $10 trillion? you have to conclude that the top-down driven programs have failed. i think we need to be engaged in this debate and say that there is a bottom-up approach. it starts at building capacity so that people can achieve success. having higher expectations and higher accountability and it genetically different kinds of schools. -- dramatically different kinds of schools. here is the big challenge for people born in poverty.

if you are born poor today, when you reach 18, it is possible you will never have a job in your life. that is the world we are moving toward. dramatic disruptive technology is putting the first wrong on the latter higher and higher. if we'll get this right, america will be radically different than what created its greatness. the ability for people to rise up will be challenged in we speak cannot imagine. you know, having this conversation in the broader sense of, it is probably not appropriate completely today. i hope conservatives do not feel compelled to pull back. we do not need to be defensive. it is the failed progressive policies that we need to address , and we need to offer alternatives. rich: let me circle back on the writing specifically. -- the rioting specifically.

jeb bush: i agree that the broken window policy has been successful. you don't have to take it to the extreme of having police brutality, but there has to be a certainty of punishment to create order and security. who gets hurt? it is the shop owner, it is the person who may lose their job they cannot reopen. it is the nursing home, it is the church. this is the community that creates the vibrancy to allow for these communities to be successful are always hurt the most in these events. i think the mayor's record when giuliani was mayor of new york creating strategies with the police was the right one. rich: the president mention absent fathers, huge part of the puzzle. is there any policy for anything

public officials can do to help turn back what has been a rising tide of family breakdown across the decades? jeb bush: absolutely. it's not -- my views on this were shaped by a book. i didn't quite get to the last chapter with the solutions, but i think we need to have solutions. i think there are things we can do as a relates to our wealth transfer payment system, the welfare system, where the highest arsenal tax rate for people would be somebody trying to get out of poverty. when they start earning enough income, they could in some states lose more benefits than they gain in income. have to change this and reward work then non-work. cap have a system -- and this is

something that your colleagues are focused on. this is a place where these approaches make sense. how do you create a system of support that does not create dependency? that has to be where the federal government plays a role. i think it is pretty clear that the way to break out of poverty -- there is a higher pop -- there is a higher probability of breaking out of poverty if you have two parents in the home that love their child, and if the child gets a better education, if you do those two things, you are likely to break out of poverty. let's encourage those two things to happen more often. i don't want to oversimplify this, but stronger family life and a different education system. the baltimore education system is not a role model that anybody

travels to to see how they are educating low income kids. if you want to see that, go to florida, go to miami-dade county. gays have occurred because we have high expectations, high standards, accountability -- gains have occurred because we have high expectations, high standards, and accountability. school choice, public and private, may ultimately get to a system where time is the variable and learning is the constant. rich: what does that mean? [applause] i just have the current to ask it. jeb bush: darn, i thought -- i

have been using a line for so long and now it makes no sense. it's at of having your kid's butt in a seat, if you don't master the material, you do not go on. if you master the material, you are not held back if he have the capability of learning and you were not perched along if you have not mastered it. a customized learning experience for every child, that is what we need to be doing. look, to suggest that we use a agriculture calendar and an industrial model where the collective bargaining interest of the adults and benefit both sides of the effort, and there is no accountability or rewards for improving learning, all of that stuff. expecting a different result will not work. the model i and suggesting is

possible because of the ability to bring high-quality, rich digital content into the classroom. every aspect of our life has been customized. one of the most important thing that we do? which is to ensure that children have the capacity to succeed. rich: i should mention to participants in the summit, that should the cards on your table for you to write questions for governor bush. in a very 20th century delivery. the senate is engaged in debate over iran policy, and the consensus is this corker bill. there is criticism of it from the right which says it is too weak, because what it has done

is say you need 67 votes to disapprove of an iran deal whereas, traditionally, when the senate is giving a treaty, you need 67 to approve. this would reverse the process. and it should be tough and up with a minutes. what is your take? jeb bush: i think that the amendment process is helpful so that americans are knowledgeable about the treaty. the broader question is, this is not in a national security interest of our country. this is democracy at work. the outcome is no congressional engagement at all, which is worse than having some engagement. republicans need to be on record opposing whatever happens, if there is to be an agreement. it sets the stage for what the

next president can do as it relates to changing whatever the outcome is. the reason why this is a bad deal is, you know, iran has not recognized israel's right to be a jewish state. iran has destabilized the region . iran has missile capability to take weaponry far into the region. iran is building a defense weapons capability that is apparently as good as the russian's. and we are going to give up the leverage that we have if they have a defense system. the result of this is proliferation, and embolden iran and you are likely to have our strongest ally in the region be threatened. i can this is a horrific deal.

i can't conjecture on what happens, but as negotiations unfold, we are pulling back, making more and more concessions, and iran is not making any. perhaps it will not be an agreement at all, because they do not need one. if you think about it, they can get lost everything they want without it. rich: would you recommend attending to amend the bill to make it a requirement that iran recognize israel? jeb bush: i don't know if that kills the bill. no ledges that oversight, no congressional work. there are some benefits because it would have to be done by executive order, but the united nations would overturn the sanctions, and the levers that we have would go away. this is not an easy question. we should be negotiating at all. we should not have started unless we were sincere about maintaining the objectives from when the president started.

rich: if you are president and a deal is in place and it has gotten some loose form of approval, would you pull out of that deal? jeb bush: if it is in the security interest of the united states, absolutely. the other hypothetical might be that this is done by executive order. as we know, the president is proud of using authority he sometimes does and doesn't have. all of that can be undone by the next president. rich: every few weeks, there is some horrific story from the broader middle east or north africa having to do with the massacre of christians or the ethnic cleansing of christians. is the government doing enough in this area? jeb bush: i think it is shameful

that the unit states is not speaking loudly and acting forcefully on behalf of christians and jews. in the case of the middle east, principally christians, i think we have a duty, we are the only country that has the resources to provide support. i have a personal interest in this. we all, as christians, need to act on our conscious as a relates to this. my daughter-in-law is of iraqi origin. her parents moved from iraq to toronto. i watched the efforts of isis to take up the christian communities in iraq.

deeply disturbing. because of his personal interest as well is my faith. the united states government should be clear that we need to be supportive. i always thought we had the capability of providing support for the 200 christian girls never kidnapped by boko haram in nigeria. i don't know why we wouldn't be aggressive and forceful and cooperating with these countries to act on our conscious on behalf of people that their only fault has been that they were in a deep abiding faith in christ. you see these things and it is so horrific, if it doesn't move your heart then not much will. christians are being beheaded and you can see the mouthing the lord's prayer at it takes place. who is going to stand on behalf of these folks across the board?

the same applies to, we need to stand tall against anti-semitism in europe and other places. if these things linger, they grow and grow and grow. this is what happens when we disengage. we have a regime -- a government -- [applause] rich: now you are speaking our language, governor. you just fed the news cycle. jeb bush: i was thinking of the regimes there. the girl with the cute, cool glasses in the state department. the press and tortures her with asking these questions, and refuses to actually say what it is. nobody in the obama administration can say what it is, and as result, we don't organize against what it is. jeb bush:rewind that regime thing.

rich: let's see if we can get you in more trouble. marco rubio has a tax reform plan, an essential feature of it is a big increase in the child tax care credit, which has a very controversial within the right. do you have any view on that? do you look on it favorably? jeb bush: i have a favorable view, and i think it is necessary to deal with the lax -- the last tax or for me had was in 1986. now we have created we went to simplicity, which helped create economic growth, to now we have the most complex code in the world. a code that is so complex that $2 trillion of u.s. corporate cash is overseas because of

worldwide income and bringing it back is an activity so that jobs are created overseas smaller foreign businesses are buying u.s. businesses to relocate them overseas. the next generation of job creators cannot set up the job because of three reasons overregulation, the complex tax code, and obamacare. those of the three things that suppress jobs. the focus ought to be not on targeted elements of the code, but a broader conversation about how we can eliminate as many of these tax expenditures as possible and lower the rates down as possible. that creates economic growth. if you wanted to create a rising middle class wear disposable income is growing, where take-home pay is growing, you got to fix the things that are the burdens on people's aspirations.

simple find a code is part of that. i don't know where that puts me. if i go beyond the consideration of running to being an actual candidate, this'll be front and center a really important part of my advocacy. rich: if you become a candidate -- in the past, you have been critical of the tax pledge, is there any circumstance in which you would take the pledge? jeb bush: no. but i cut taxes every year. we cut $19 billion in eight years. every year, we have all sorts of tax cuts. i don't have to be told how important it is, i did it. i think that is the better approach. cutting taxes in a way that creates economic prosperity ends up creating enough revenue to allow it to function and it more money in people's pockets. that is the right approach. i'm not going to change my views

on that, and my record is clear. it is as good or better than any. let put it this way. if you serve in the united states senate over the last eight years, there is no tax cut has taken place. this president has raised taxes $1 trillion to fund obamacare and it, just because he could, he created another tax cut. anybody associated with washington d.c. can talk about this stuff the places where taxes have been cut are in places like of florida, where they were led by a conservative governor that all important. the net result, to put it in a broader perspective, during might be years 1.4 new jobs were created. in five of those eight years more than any state. more than texas. rich: it is a principled opposition to plaintiff of that

sort. will you promise not to raise taxes? [applause] jeb bush: i think we did to cut taxes in reform code to create economic prosperity. we are talking on the edges of what ails us as a country. what ails us apart from the pessimism that really is kind of freezing in place the spirits that typically allow americans to solve problems. the lack of leadership in washington, for sure. but it is also this growth. we are growing at 2%. this term is called the new normal. the new normal mix me nauseous, because the new normal redefine america in a bad way. 2% we'll be overwhelmed with crumbling infrastructure and the lack of research and development. four% growth what is we should

be achieving. so tax reform and regulatory reform embracing our energy this will get you going. reforming our broken immigration and fixing the fiscal structural deficits we have related to our entitlement system is how you get to four% growth. that should be the focus. so scott walker has kicked up a bit of a fuss. >> you're trying to get me in trouble. >> of course i am. he said when it comes to illegal immigration the first thing we should think about is what effect immigration has on american workers and their wages? do you agree or disagree? jeb bush: i don't think it's a zero sum game. if we start thinking that we'll play the game that barack obama plays oh so well. it's the wrong approach. we have 3 to 5 million jobs unfilled that require skills in america today.

think of had we fixed our immigration system in the way that i would propose it, how much extra job growth and investment that would provided opportunities for higher wages for people struggling near or at the bottom or people that are squeezed in the middle. this is not a zero sum game. if you want to grow at four% instead of two you need younger, more dynamic people inside of our economy that are productive to get to four% growth. you can't do it by a declining population and can't do it with pathetic productivity growth. you have to have both. immigration is not the end all and be all but an immigration system that fixes the border that creates a more secure america for all sorts of good reasons and then expands the number of economic immigrants and narrows them for coming for family purposes.

we have the broadest definition of familiaring petitioning in the world. every country in the world there may be 1 or 2 most have spouse and minor children. we have spouse and minor children anded a adult sibling and adult parents. we've it allowed to continue. we haven't fix san diego and the net result we put quotas on countries to deal with this because there are some countries that half the country would come. the quota was based on the reality this wasn't working the way it should. better to expand based on need what our economy would create. that's how you're going to grow your economy. bring young people who embrace our values and move forward.

because here's the deal and again -- i love you and i love the national review -- >> this is going to be good, this wind-up. jeb bush: i think you're wrong on immigration. but if we fix the legal part we could grow our economy far faster and younger and more dynamic. the world that some argue for is the world of declining population and world of japan and europe and decline. i reject that. america does not do that well. we're at our best when we're young aspirational and dynamic. so, maybe i'm stubborn. i'm willing to listen to other views and i hope we have a dialogue about this but i think i'm right. if and we grow economically then we need to get this fixed pretty quick. >> let me push back a little

bit. i think the argument that walker would make or at least senator jeff sessions would make it's not an argument that is necessarily zero sum game but basic economic argument having to do with supply and demand. if you increase the supply of low-skilled labor, of course low-skilled wages will go down. jeb bush: who is suggesting that? are you talking about the people who are here already? >> no it would have increased legal immigration. although they taught the game of high skills it's always increasing low skills. jeb bush: i'm not a united states senator, thank god. i live in miami. i'm outside of washington. i've written a book about this. what i was describing was my idea. my idea is to narrow the amount

of people coming and expanding. you're not increasing the number overall. we have huge shortages in all sorts of fields. what i'm saying canada stole our immigration plan and made it better. we should resteal canadian plan and make it american. there are more immigrants from canada coming in annually than we have and they're ten times bigger. which system will be the one that works? the one focused on economic growth or focused on family petitioning? >> one last crack at this. i'll describe position on immigration that i think is reasonable and you tell me what's wrong. we secure the border first and secure at the point of employment to an e-verify system and visa system that really works and you pass this and it

passes all the -- gets through all the legal challenges it's going to have from the a.c.l. u. and others and when it works then you do some form of amnesty for many illegal immigrants who aren't going anywhere. because now you know there won't be a managegnet. i would reduce total numbers but certainly emphasize higher skills. >> hey we're getting there. the details of at what point do you say the border is secure, i worry about total security which means that we probably had to lose some of our freedom as a country, that bothers me a bit. i kind of like my freedom. i'm the kind of guy that likes does /* municipalities.

i think we need to be focused on liberty and freedom but that's the idea. another element of this should be to make it easier to come legally as part of the eliminating the manage net. there should be an option for people to come legally. that should be one of the guiding principals which means we need to have much better enforcement. we got to solve this. here's the political side of this. i'm not sure everybody gets it. by doing nothing you have two things that happen, at least under -- under the age of obama. you have a president that uses this like he's a stradivarius violin. he's playing for some symphony. he uses this as a wedge issue and we always lose. we always lose on the political argument about all this and he always wins or the democrats always win if you think about having family being the driver of legal immigration rather than

an economic driver. so delaying this is what he wants. he does want immigration reform. this would shock both of them, they probably agree with this. and i think what we need to do is to say, let's fix this, grow the economy and lift people's spirits, again not exclusively because of immigration, there are a lot of other big challenges we face. but we'll turn people into republicans if we're much more aspirational in our message. our tone has to be more inclusive as well. >> let's try another sticky one. there's a movement among some parents to opt out of common core testing. if a parent came to you said and governor i'm considering doing this what would you tell him-her? jeb bush: if it makes it harder to get into college and graduate i think you need it rethink