from tough university and conservative black chick editor crystal wright. then a discussion about the nfl's decision to give up its tax-exempt status. >> the findings are thorough coupled with the medical examiner's determination that mr. gray's death was a homicide has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file charges. ♪ host: that is the state attorney from baltimore city, maryland marilyn mosey. responses from not only congress, but also the white house. we will hear from them and a

bit, but in the first 45 minutes, we will get your reactions from yesterday and the charges in freddie gray's death being a homicide. for baltimore residents, (202) 748-8000. for those in law enforcement (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 745-8002. if you want to put your thoughts on our social media, @cspanwj on twitter. facebook, facebook.com/cspan. or send us an e-mail, journal@c-span.org. the newspapers this morning have the photos of the six officers, officer goodson rice, miller, porter and officer nero. the editorial pages of two newspapers take a look at what

happened particularly when it comes to the law enforcement angle, from "washington post," a step towards justice is there angle. "the wall street journal" also in their editorial takes a look at this issue specifically mentioning officers, adding this -- if we learn anything from ferguson, missouri and sat

nilan that early conclusions about the facts and police confrontations are often wrong. if great julie was killed by the police the best way is to give the police a fair trial and due process that he was denied. again, your thoughts this morning on the charges brought down yesterday on these six officers. you can comment on this and other aspects of what you have heard over the last week involving this case. for baltimore residents, (202) 748-8000. for law enforcement, if you want to weigh in with your perspective, (202) 748-8001. all others, you can add your thoughts to the conversation as well, (202) 745-8002. it was in the roosevelt room yesterday in the white house where the president was meeting on a different topic but in a conversation with reporters, and commented on the charges. [video clip] president obama: i can tell you

that justice needs to be served. all the evidence needs to be presented. those individuals who are charged obviously are also entitled to due process and rule of law. i want to make sure that our legal system runs the way it should. the justice department and our new attorney general is in conversations with baltimore officials to make sure that any assistance we can provide on the investigation is provided. what i think the people baltimore want more than anything else is the truth. that is what people around the country expect. to the extent that it is appropriate, this a administration will help local

officials get to the bottom exactly of what happened. host: again for baltimore residents to comment on the charges done yesterday on the death of freddie gray, that does rolled a homicide, (202) 748-8000. for law enforcement, (202) 748-8001. all others, (202) 745-8002. you can post on our social media sites as well. we will start with john in spring texas this morning. john, go ahead. caller: i think these police officers probably did something to him in that building where they brought him out and put him in that van, handcuffed him. this is outrageous. it is about time these police officers were prosecuted further actions. -- for their actions. i just can't believe it.

that is my opinion on it. host: as a legal process goes on, what do you think of the process? now as the case goes to court, do you have confidence in a? caller: not really. host: let's hear from sarah and georgia. sarah, good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning. i think the police officers should get a fair trial. i also think that nationwide the way the police apprehend citizens need to change. no more being them in the back, pressing down on their schools choking them. they are supposed to arrest, apprehend, and put them in the van, not punish along the way. i think police are terribly wrong and how they treat people that they apprehend. thank you.

host: how would you want to see the way that apprehensions occurred, how would you want to see a change.? caller: look at what happened with their eric garner. didn't you see a policeman behind the one pressing down on his head? these policeman inflict pain. they do not try to just arrest you, they try to kill you. they joke you. they give you and them mma, mixed martial arts tactics. why couldn't they just arrest you went freddie gray was arrested? why did they have to hold him down as if they were holding down a hog that they were slaughtering. they held him down, drove out

lifted his knees up to his backside, would not give him an and he and heller. and heller. in georgia, the killed a naked man. host: that was sarah. next color in north carolina. caller: i am concerned that we do not convict all policeman. i'm 77 years old. i have had encounters with policeman as a blackmail. -- black male. around the country, we have to have the courts and policeman and community to join forces so that we can change this paradigm. we need to change policing policies. we need people in the community to help us do that. host: when you say change

policing, what do you mean exactly? caller: we have to hold them accountable. they have been able to get away with a number of things because they have been policing themselves, independent of agencies that go and and investigate. that is necessary. i just hope that we will change. everyone needs to participate not just law enforcement agents, politicians, but ordinary people who have to have an input. we get the brunt of it. host: that was horace from fayetteville, north carolina. sean is up next.

hello, go ahead. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: fine, thanks. caller: i think the debt to be ruled a homicide is fair. on the regards to the state attorney, i do think she has some political motivation as far as her comments that were made yesterday. i think the police releasing themselves, i don't think that is a real good idea. if we look to what happened in south carolina, the law enforcement officers were released and headed over to the state, the state's version of policing themselves. as far as the death goes with mr. gray, i don't think the people that are in or around baltimore -- i think they want justice. in order for justice to be done everything needs to be set aside

. as far as people's opinions. they need to let the child play out. -- trial play out. host: the papers highlight the reaction of yesterday by ms. mosey saying it was jean ryan requesting a special prosecutor. he pointed to her relationship with william h murphy junior the attorney for grace family. on friday, murphy said her decision to file charges has given the family hope. murphy raise money for mosby's campaign and was a member of her transition team. the letter also focused on her husband, and it, a member of the baltimore city council representing the wealth west

baltimore neighborhood where gray was arrested. we have said aside three -- set aside three different lines as morning. for baltimore residents, (202) 748-8000. for law enforcement, (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 745-8002. we will hear from a member of law enforcement, ron. caller: your first name is juan correct? host: pedro. caller: i apologize. there is one thing you don't see in the conversation -- i am calling from washington, i'm a little sleepy, i apologize. there is one thing that no one is saying on facebook, on social media, or the radio or television. the first thing that happened in the gray case that shows police

responsibility is whenever you deal with the public and you are detaining someone, and they end up injured, they are not playing in a patty wagon, they are put in an ambulance. once you are detained by a police, they are responsible for your condition. the largest mistake that they made is not putting him in the hands of emt, what we would use in miami. there is huge culpability there. from a law-enforcement standpoint, i hope former policeman or policeman who are listening, and civilians who are very pro-police understand that police do not solve crime. the united states has lost about 10 million living wage jobs. we have gone from an $18 per our society to an eight dollars per our society. we have to provide families with jobs. there is no other solution. put americans to work and they

will give thanks on sunday. that is my only observation. host: kevin is up next in virginia. caller: good morning. the prosecutors deal was off the chart. as she was reading the charges yesterday, i feel she lost -- i feel she should have, she and her entire team, should have worked through the weekend and made sure of all of the charges and second-guessed themselves before they went running out in front of the microphones. you know, she is also a very inexperienced prosecutor. she is very young. this is a groundbreaking case here. between her and the mayor, they were running videotape of her less last night, they were

saying between us three black women, if we cannot get justice in baltimore, where can we get a? this is so political. this has nothing to do actually with what happened with freddie gray. first of all, i am sorry, a lot of people will not like this freddie gray was a drug dealer. not worried about him. he is gone. that is one more person who is ruining the streets of baltimore who is not here anymore. i'm sorry to say it. the other thing i would say, the very last thing, me being a white 50-year-old man from virginia, i think it looks like it was rushed and political. for the black inner-city people in baltimore, they are so happy today. it shows you how our country is a little divided. host: "the washington post" and other papers are profiled

marylandrilyn mosby. she has little experience prosecuting homicide of police misconduct according to two baltimore defense lawyers. for baltimore residents, don't forget, you can call in at (202) 748-8000. we will hear from william and baltimore. caller: i voted for marilyn mosby. yes, i think she was under extreme pressure to do something and do something fast, however we all know the arresting officers did make mistakes. it doesn't matter if freddie gray was a drug dealer, we are all supposed to be protected by law. i believe his injuries happen before he got into the van. her strategy, marilyn mosby's

strategy, in my view, she came down with some tough and hard charges because now those officers will be forced to talk. we will find out what happened as a result. most of the blame has been placed on the driver however, i believe those injuries were incurred before he got into the van. host: how do you think the legal process will play out for these officers? caller: as i have said before, i believe somebody will be charged. i believe the arresting officers, the two who were traveling on bike somehow maybe during the takedown or what have you, i believe they are going to get the brunt of the blame for the death of freddie gray. i believe that the driver who was negligent in getting gray

the attention, medical attention that he deserved, that was so delayed, will also get some blame. host: let's hear from jordan in randallstown maryland. is that close to baltimore? caller: approximately four miles from baltimore city. good morning. i i agree with the man from south carolina. my point is that he made a comment saying this is not about freddie, this is about -- i agree with him. this is not about freddie's death. this is about a huge income disparity, disenfranchisement of black people. in baltimore city, it is just the rich and poor. there is no middle class.

the political system is so corrupt, they give tax breaks to the ridge. the ordinary people are left to struggle for themselves. then you have the former governor o'malley. 85% of young black people with criminal records, they can't get jobs. you have police -- the fourth amendment of the constitution prohibits unnecessary search and seizure. another amendment prohibits cool and unusual punishment. and another animate guarantees rights cannot be construed or denied.

unfortunately, the police have the authority to -- no, the bill of rights is intact. that is why people got so angry and went to the streets to protest, or riot. the whole world is watching. what happens in america is a microcosm of other countries. this country this great country, the beacon of democracy , if they can do this to their own citizens, what about me? america has the moral standing to -- host: that was jordan.

we have set aside a line for baltimore residents and law-enforcement and all others. if you want to call in about freddie gray's death being ruled a homicide. our next caller from virginia. caller: i can't believe what i am hearing on this whole situation. i come from a long family of police. especially in new york. my uncle, of course he is retired now that he was police commissioner back in the 60's. this nonsense that we are going through in this country today is very detrimental to the whole nation. you just had a fellow screaming about the cuts attrition. obviously he is an immigrant. when my family came back in 80 hundreds, there were no ebt cards, no welfare and nothing. they got off the boat and they got a job. they worked their way out. my grandfather great-grandfather had a job

shoveling. i resided -- retired from my own general contracting business. that is the name of the united states of america. you move yourself up by the your own -- by your own bootstraps. down in baltimore yesterday, to hear from a elijah cummings, who has been a congressman for 20 years, all of a sudden he has realized that the education system in the country is -- in that city is in poor condition. meanwhile, that is the second-highest paid school district in the united states next to new york. he realized that there is substandard housing, there are no jobs, where the hell has he been for 20 years? this is the most ridiculous lopsided situation. they are railroading these cops. who says that those kids in that van could not have broken his

neck? what if he fell over backwards and hit the seat? is whole thing is a set up. it is a whitewash. they want to ruin these guys. host: that was still in virginia. again, one of the lines, you can call in baltimore residents, while forstmann, and all others as well. he mentioned elijah cummings speaking on the situation. another congressman, bobby rush of illinois, just moments after this announcement came from baltimore, he made comments on this in the house. [video clip] congressman rush: the decision today, just a few moments ago she has done this nation an invaluable service. especially for young people. especially for the

african-american and other minority youth hearinh. these young people for decades now you're in -- have yearned for justice for police misconduct, police brutality and yes, police murder. this new standing for justice is a standing that now transcends baltimore. transcends even the entire state of maryland. transcends and reaches other points across this nation -- ferguson, new york city, chicago, cleveland, other places all throughout this country. host: representative bobby rush

in congress yesterday commenting on this decision. off of twitter jade saying, when it comes to the decision yesterday, good move, let the courts figure it out. bill king saying, the charges are one thing, a conviction is another. theredarren, go ahead. caller: i just want to say, this freddie gray thing, it is a little more than freddie gray. the immigrant guy, the last guy he pretty much summed it up for me. it is about poverty and hopelessness and the cycle. it is much more heavy with black people but baltimore is very diverse. there are lots of pockets of poor white sectors.

i wish some south baltimore callers would call in. i have white friends that police would jack them up and threw them in a van just like freddie gray all over baltimore. it is just wrong. i do not commit crime. i should not feel fear when i pull over -- my car is in good order, i have my registration. i should not feel fear getting pulled over. that is what i feel. everybody knows in the city. i don't know which officer is good and which one is not. you don't know until they say hello. host: the previous caller brought up the political structure there and if they have done anything to alleviate the things that you have brought up. do you have any thoughts on that? caller: yes, i have a thought on that. people are very apathetic

people don't really vote. the mayor would not have gotten to the office if people do not look at the issues and voted. almost no one voted and she won. i am sure that this event will hopefully get more people to vote. voter apathy is a big problem in baltimore. it is notorious. the politicians don't really care because it works out in their favor. if there were ever some good candidates -- there were some good candidates on the ballot last time and the mayor was not my candidate. host: material from gilbert told the, oklahoma. go ahead. caller: good morning. first and foremost, let me say this, it is the tell of two cities -- tale of two cities

that goes on all over this country. i used to live in washington d.c. and the underground economy is the only thing they have going on. the schools that were horrible, that was 40 years ago. just like washington, d.c. now. just crossing the bridge, you think you are in another planet. underthe underground economy is only thing they have. all of the jobs have gone. let me say this about the police. this is nothing new. if you want the police to pay attention to the place where the patrol and do the work, let them live in the city where they work. not in the suburbs. the thing is be responsible to the people who are paying your paychecks.

to the caller earlier who was talking a immigrants and working , first and foremost, it has always been divided. blacks came to this country in chains. the chains may have been removed, but the color has not. therefore, they suffer the indignities of being different from the vast number of white people in this country. let me say this, just like our president called those people thugs thugs developed this country, they came here. indians did not ask them to come. they killed off as many indians as they could and gave their lands to the people from england, who could not only overland and those foreign countries over there in europe. look at what they did, they demolish theseed the indians.

let me say this before i let you go. that is this. the police will never be convicted. name one time in this country except when serpico try to tell the people what was going on, the police chased them out of this country. host: we will hear now from jane and washington, d.c., a member of law enforcement. caller: i was a d.c. police for 20 years and then i retired. the police were going around, treating people that. they gave me a nickname and called me militant because i would not allow them to do this. another thing i like to say, and this has nothing to do with that, but the schools, they need to teach these kids to read, write, arithmetic. the computer is not helping them count.

they cannot even write a check or application. the people who called in to talk about the immigrant, he needs to go check himself out. at least he had the chance to do more st horse stuff -- i know that is why i became a police, the opportunity to get a job. if you do not have opportunity you cannot get a job. thank you. host: this week's actions come after the department of justice announces launching a $20 million by camera program. the justice department says it is the first component of a program for the doj to release

50 awards to law-enforcement agencies, and about a third of those will go to the smallest police departments. anew is up next insight, michigan. caller: i want to talk about the rioters, how they burn the city and one day. they burn their own community. -- burned their own community. what will happen to them? they were arrested and then let go. why? what happens to all the people who burned masks and looted? how is this justify? a freddie gray was and is the and killed unjustifiably, but the courts and justice systems punish the police. who will punish the looters? nobody.

they are let go and able go travel to another city and do the same thing. burn people's businesses, their life, their neighborhood. they are not here to protect us. they are here to cause anarchy. host: that is anew and saginaw michigan. you previously thought photos from earlier in the week when protests were taking place. this is a reaction from the decision an announcement that was made yesterday by marilyn mosby. that is the first page photo. from twitter, this comment, her rush to appease will backfire, it's about acting based on evidence and the law. from baltimore, maryland kiara thank you for calling. kiara? let's go to jim from huntsville, alabama.

caller: good morning, pedro. i just want to say that -- can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: baltimore has been controlled by the democrats for the last 40 years. a caller said that their only the rich and the board. that is what happens in that type of society. democrats don't create jobs, they create a welfare state. it is time for something new. you have all these evil without jobs that don't finish school. i think the reading level -- the third grade reading level for kids was only like 16%. host: when you say to it is time for something new, what do you mean by that?

caller: it is time they look at who they're voting for. there's nothing but democrats. they need to vote for some conservative people. look at what scott walker did and in wisconsin. anyway. when they started the rights in ferguson and this riot, obama stood up and blame the police. eric holder went down and they could have stopped this before it got started. host: let's hear from bob in west virginia, law enforcement. good morning. caller: looking at statistics for -- a lot of the colors are making good points, but we talk about that there is no money being sent into baltimore. as far as for education and

stuff like that, for the kids. but, maryland ranks pretty high up on what they spend on students and education. you have had baltimore basically with problems with drugs and gangs through these years. for a long time. i think as law-enforcement, i have spent a lot of time inside prisons and working the street stuff like that, and i think there is a general consensus that african-americans are anti-police because they feel -- and they have experienced a lot of stuff that makes them feel this way. i think that it is a whole society thing where they have to

learn to trust the lease and these police unions, when they are caught for excessive uses of force and other things, they have to step away and say, if you screwed up as a cop, you have to face the consequences. you can't use excessive use of force, plant drugs, and that happens. that is all there is to it. they have to stand back and let it take its course. i have seen it time and time again. they say, freddie gray could not have injured himself in the van. yes, i have seen stuff like that happen before. i have put ties in bvans, and buckled them up, and they use the seatbelt straps to pop the restraints off. they can do all types of stuff. i have seen guys strapped down

and basically this and hurt themselves. host: that was a member of law enforcement. the house judiciary committee announcing they will schedule a hearing looking at law enforcement. the judiciary committee confirmed the hearing. this piece by "politico," goes on to say that it will allow them to look at topics that could mandate new training standards for police officers and strictly reporting requirements. from florida, philip. caller: if they had jobs, they would not be put in the spot. they were not have time to go get in trouble.

obama is giving away a chance for them to have jobs down there to keep them out of the trouble he is talking about. you give away 5 million jobs and not just baltimore, there are other places. mcdonald's and all these minimum jobs -- even at $15 per hour that is not a good wage. it is a wage to learn, not earn a living. you cannot earn a living for that. for a single person, that is a good wage to get started and get a car, that kind of stuff, but it is not really a good -- maybe say guest daughter home, but -- maybe to get a starter home. this business of cap worked

until they are 16, we have to stop that. you cannot work them 40 hours per week when they are 12, 13, 14 years old. we need to be able to let them go to work when they want to win they are young. that way it teaches them to work a few hours per day at these mom-and-pop places. to go down and work at the ice cream store, the barbershop in the afternoons before they go home to do their homework. host: that was philip from florida. brian in albany, georgia, former president of baltimore. how long did you live there? caller: hello. host: you are on, how long did you live in baltimore? caller: i was born there. all my life. my name is brian pitts and i was

born and raised there since the 50's. host: you are on, what is your comment on the freddie gray death being ruled a homicide. caller: one of the reasons i am in georgia is because there are no opportunities there. i heard one guy talking about how he was an immigrant and when he got off the bow there was a job for him to go to. the culture of baltimore is you have hustlers. like another caller said something like an underground type of economy that goes on. other than that, a lot of people about what do not have any mainstream job. they had to agree a job. i had to create a job. grass cutting. i had a final way to go cut the grass. it is so overwhelming, the poverty. you don't hear about baltimore.

it is not like new york or washington, d.c., it is not known for any sort of great thing except for the war where francis scott key wrote the star-spangled banner. baltimore is known for hustling people. it was unfortunate about mr. gray but that goes on. i remember when i was a kid. it had to be 30 years ago, i went for baltimore ride where they put you in the back of a paddy wagon and slams on the brakes. i remember the eastern district with a guy came from, one time drinking beer under age, they backed the paddy wagon to the wall and the police beat me and a friend of mine. host: brian, you --

caller: this has been going on. about 30 years. host: thanks, brian. check is up next for las vegas nevada. caller: my name is chuck. i am a 23 year veteran of the police department. i made this observation going back to the original arrest when the bicycle officers were chasing mr. gray, they listed him as it it possible suspect for selling heroin. when they did apprehend him there was no hair went present. jumping forward to the autopsy examination, it revealed that he had hair when, as well as marijuana in his system. i would just like to point out and i have seen this, if you did in just heroin -- ingest

harrowing, depending on the amount he had in his system, it could cause an involuntary reaction c which could caus a reaction when he wase in the van. host: as an officer, what do you think of the possibility of the officers that were named yesterday getting a fair trial? what do you think will be the end result of the process? caller: number one, it is determined by factors that are still not disclosed, for example, the amount of heroin that was inside his system. they could very well just be doing the job that they are paid to do. he was listed as a suspect in selling heroin because of his bike background -- his prior

background. host: duty from crownsville, maryland -- judy from crownsville, maryland. caller: people are taught him a host for a fair trial. maryland has a really serious problem with judiciary and our prosecutors. last september, "the washington post" reported that judge christopher o'malley ordered the deputy sheriff to actively a device called the stunt cuff, which administers electricity into the defendant because the defendant was saying things that the judge did not like. if it was that bad the defendant was in contempt of

court. this is worth then telling the debbie sheriff -- the transcript says the defendant was named king, this matter has been buried. the judge was removed from the bench. this is a serious assault on a defendant. what is shocking is this event happen in july. it did not make it to the baltimore papers until august. another newspaper evicted up and september. no one reported judge the judge. host: that is judy in maryland. dave in michigan will be the last caller on this topic. caller: good morning.

i would just like to say that years ago i made a mistake by fully around with drugs -- fooling around with drugs. when i did my body went into an involuntary reaction where my top torso was turning one way and my bottom torso was turning the other way and i almost broke my back. i had to be rushed to the hospital and given a muscle relaxer to save my life. very well it could have happened to the young fellow who was arrested. i disagree with the decision to charge all the officers. all of those charges and just a couple of hours, that had to be a little decision to quiet the crowd, in my opinion. much more thought needs to be put into those decisions, and i do not think there was enough thought to make all of those charges with all of those police officers.

i lived in that city many years ago. i was a child of washington, d.c. and that area. i also thought that baltimore had above average wage earners. and it has gotten to that? i cannot believe it. host: that is dave in michigan. last call on this topic. we will continue on to the conversations on the events happening in baltimore, not only yesterday, but some underlying issues that you have mentioned. crystal wright from conservative black chick will join us as well as peniel joseph. the nfl has decided this week that it will forgo its tax-exempt status, but why didn't have one in the first place? andrew zimbalist will join us. but first, our guest is armed

service committee member, representative mac thornberry. [video clip] rep. thornberry: there is not much support for what the president asked for so the question is if there can be support for another version. i think we need to try. it is our job under the constitution. in addition, we have a moral obligation to the men and women who we send out on these missions to have the full cloak of a digital authority and moral -- constitutional authority and moral backing of the country for their mission. i think have the responsibility to try. i had some conversations today about maybe some next steps going forward and i want to contribute to that debate, even though it doesn't technically, out of our committee.

, what are the next up s steps? rep. thornberry: to see if there is an authorization that could get enough support to pass in the house and senate. there are a couple that have been introduced. i think there may be more discussions about that. i cannot tell you all the steps in the legislative process. it is my opinion that we need to really try to do this, for the reasons we have just been talking about. it is our job under the constitution. >> how do you think it should be drafted? rep. thornberry: i am working on that. part of the question is what do you include. we probably do not have time to get into all of this. we still operate under a 2001 aumf that was drafted just a few days after 9/11. doesn't really fit isis? not to mention al-shabaab or al

qaeda in yemen. i have my doubts. my preference is to clean this up in a way that makes sense. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we will continue on with our conversation. join us on set, crystal wright the editor and publisher of the website conservativeblackchick .com. also joining us from test university, peniel joseph. thank you for joining us. mr. joseph, let's start with you. what is the biggest takeaway, not only does we, but the events particularly from yesterday in baltimore? guest: i think the takeaway is that we have an ongoing national crisis of race, poverty democracy, and the criminal justice system.

the criminal justice system has become a gateway for racial oppression, whether in ferguson or baltimore. eight is connected with finding poor black people -- all these wars that we see in a place like ferguson -- it is connected to police brutality. it is connectinged to racial profiling, to public schools the prison pipeline unemployment. all of these things are happening to cities and they have been happening. it is the product of decades of public policy. not really failed public policy because the war on poverty has helped millions of people, but it is redirecting resources away from poverty towards the criminal justice system which has produced a criminalization of black people all across the country. the rage we saw in baltimore was

why black people tend to shout at peaceful demonstrations. organizing does not elicit response from the state. not only asking for help, but asking the state to stop directing violence towards african-americans. not only in the criminal justice system, but also public policy. host: crystal wright, the same for you. guest: i will respectfully disagree withh most of what peniel has said. you have predominantly black cities, baltimore is 62% were 63% black, that have been run to and governed by democrats for the last 50 years. i would call that failed policy. black americans are just disproportionately trapped -- i would agree, in

poverty and violence. . in baltimore, two thirds of all babies are born without weatherbug. we know, the brookings institute has talked about this, when you are born to a single-parent home, your chances of escaping poverty are diminished. you will not graduate high school, you will not have a chance to reach the american dream. also in baltimore, you have -- it is one of the worst cities for violent crime. i do get is the fifth highest in the nation murder capital. blacks are disproportionately harmed by being in baltimore. i think what we saw play out, in stark terms, over an over again, you see black democrat politicians who become apologists for blacks rioting and harming their neighborhood. in ferguson, over 50% of the

businesses that were destroyed in ferguson, missouri will not come back. they were black owned businesses, burned down by other black residents in ferguson. they are not coming back. i think what policy about what we saw in baltimore is on the one hand, you have black residents complaining about the injustice to freddie gray, which we'll talk about, i am sure, which was awful, we all agree. it reminded me of what i thought with eric carter in new york. at -- eric garner in york. black america should be outraged. they should be outraged that they have put their lives in trust in the hands of democratic politicians for five decades and nothing has changed for them. i will leave it with this. baltimore -- the last time it was governed by republican mayor

was in 1967.

in 1967. since then, you have had 21 property tax increases. guest: the disparate treatment for those who have crack cocaine crimes is still 18 to one at the

federal level. even after 2010 policy change. if we think about what is going on here, this is structural racism, decades of public policy that has diminished the chance -- by chance of african-americans. when we think of households, yes but women have disproportionately more single-parent households but even people like charles murray have looked at stats on white families and the number of white births. the problem here is the lack of economic opportunity, the lack of jobs, not something inherently wrong with african-american culture. again, it is also racism. the reports from 68, the right commission, said that the reason why there were riots in hundreds

of american cities was racism, white supremacy, institutional racism. this was the president of the united states' own commission. what we think about what has got is going on here, it is precisely because of policy. instead of the great society, a new deal, it is get tough on crime. we call african-americans thugs, and wonder why there is violence. to say they are destroyed her own community is very very naive. what they are lashing out against is that they are getting racially and economically exploited, especially in places like baltimore. they are resisting state violence. i'm not condoning destroying a

cvs. it is because they do not feel they have anybody in in these communities. in these communities will stop if anything, they feel like these communities are marginalizing their very existence because of the ways the institutions do not work for them. host: ok, mr. joseph, only because i want to get some calls, linda, you are from illinois. your first up on our independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning. mr. joseph, you are so right. you are young, and you know what is going on. you are absolutely correct. your other friend over there -- there was a time i would have agreed with some of what she says, but now that i have then exposed -- the criminal justice system is so corrupt from the judges to the prosecutor and the

lawyers. this is unbelievable. you are making money off of these men. you send them to jail. i will take what happened -- i will paint a picture. my son was arrested, according to them, for on his passenger then they discover his license is suspended. then they took him to jail. this is a child -- bases his car, -- they seized his car made him lose his job, sent them to court again, he lost a second job. in the lawyer, they want money the judges are corrupt come in cahoots. a mr. joseph, you hit it on the head. host: linda, thank you. she talked about the criminal justice system. ms. wright, what is your response? guest: the criminal justice system does need reforming. we have senators, rand paul, cory booker, working to reform

it. i agree with mr. joseph on that. we need to reevaluate mandatory minimums for nonviolent drug possession. what really bothers me about this conversation is it is very one-sided. you allow mr. joseph to go on and on about how he thinks black americans are just passive victims in their own criminality, which we can all agree criminality has been built in the dna of black men for the last five decades, and i really dispute -- there is something inherently wrong with black america when you have 72% of all babies born to black america today born to one -- to single mother households. that means the fathers are missing in action. even president barack obama had to start a program called my brother's keeper, which is really nothing but a government netting nanny program to teach black americans how to be fathers. can you imagine the president of

the united states announcing a program for white america and white men? it is like this whole notion that black people who were in baltimore destroying cvs stores where they had jobs, destroying the right aid stores, destroying black businesses -- i think you had 19 is this fires. black young men were out in the street of baltimore burning it down. they burned down police cars, they burned down buildings, and they harmed, you know, homes and i think this is a abhorrent. they are a thug. and a thug is somebody who wants to destroy an harmed their neighborhood, and what mr. joseph has said this entire discussion, he has become an apologist when black america behaves badly. i want to go back to 1965 when

daniel patrick moynihan, who was working for president johnson, who wrote something called the "negro family," commonly called the moynihan report. at the time, he was assistant secretary of labor to democrat president johnson. he said i am very concerned for black america. i am seeing a disturbing trend of more black households headed by single women, a higher incarceration rate for black men, and a growing dependence of black americans on the welfare system. he said if we do not look at this and make sure we are creating opportunity economic opportunity for black americans, we will have a big problem. at the time that senator moynihan wrote that report, you had 23% of black babies born out of wedlock. today it is 72%. i do not know how anybody can sit up there and say when more

than 50% of our prisons are populated by blacks, we have blacks committing disproportionate amounts of homicides, we have blacks not only being killed but being killed by each other, killing each other -- how can anybody sit up there and say we as black americans are not responsible for the mess we are in? and yet -- no, i want to say this one thing, yet black america keeps voting overwhelmingly for democrats politicians. the last 50 years, they have voted since president johnson over 80% for the democratic presidents, and guess what under barack obama, our first black president, economic prosperity for black america has stagnated, not gotten better. host: let's get mr. joseph in on this. guest: i fundamentally disagree with the premise of her whole framing of the issue. this is not about individual behavior. the story in daniel patrick moynihan's report

was to castigate and move the structure from institutional racism to individual so-called a black pathology. this idea of the criminal justice system, for instance, the reason we have so many black people in jail is not because they commit so many crimes, it is because of the criminalization of african-americans. when we think about the drug war, the drug war allows to racially profile african-americans, and that is why we are caught up in the dragnet. michelle alexander, the legal scholar, has a new book called "the new jim crow" and that is where felony drug conditions have become a new demarcating line of who has access to citizenship in this country and who does not. and that new jim crow metaphoric sense just to the criminal justice system but to our six to employment, to schools -- but to politics, to employment, to schools.

we think about this idea of black on black crime, that is not true for stop 84 percent of so-called white on white crime 93% is so-called black on black crime. the reason black people commit crimes against each other is because they are racially segregated -- guest: because they have no opportunity? guest: crystal, i never interrupted you. please respect the conversation. the reason why we have all these killings is because of racial segregation and because of the lack of opportunity, so there has been warfare in the black community because of the warfare that the state has directed against african-americans, so when we think about where we are at in way 15, the difference between 2015 and 1965 for millions of african-americans is that in 1955, they knew in a very specific way about the existence of racial oppression because there was a national civil rights movement, and there was a movement for social justice stopped in 2015, millennials, especially poor

african-american millennials who are on the streets of baltimore, ferguson, philadelphia, boston -- they realize that the whole articulation of racial progress is not as clear-cut as it should be. this idea that because we have barack obama, everything is all well and good where we have massive teenage unemployment, we have massive crisis in terms of lack of access to healthy food and food deserts in african american communities will stop their living in a time period where fairness and racial quality for them is just a jury. this is not about a democratic president somehow -- host: thank you, mr. joseph. catherine, ohio, democrat line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i have a couple of statements. the first is -- how would our conversation change if police officers were killing only young white men? my next statement is that we as

a nation, we treat black people different than we do what people. we have a zero-tolerance in the cities for black people, but in the county where the good white people live -- or they think they are the good white people -- we don't have a zero-tolerance. as long as we treat one group of people differently than we do another, we are going to have a different outcome. stop. please stop. these are not black africans these are black americans, and treat them as such. if you want to be respected in the black community, treat black people with respect in the black community. quit -- stop all this name-calling thugs. these are just white, black, and brown people who have no future. if they had your future, they would feel differently. live in their shoes for a month. see what it is like to be picked up multiple times for a charge that you did not commit.

things would be different. we have to stop the culture of the police. host: catherine from ohio, thank you. ms. wright, go ahead. guest: catherine, you make great points, and i am all for blacks being treated with equality, that is why my parents, who are the products of the 1950's in the 1960's, they sat at the counters, my father was one of the first blacks to go to dental school at his college. i think about martin luther king as we sit here today and see the tragedy unfolding for black americans in cities like baltimore, new york city ferguson, and detroit. but i want to address one thing that mr. joseph said. he said that, you know, i feel like some of it is a bit of a fairytale. oh, you know, the criminal justice system, poor black americans, we are just passive victims. the reality is according to the justice department, black men commit homicides six times the rate of white men. black men or homicide victims

seven times the rate of white men. these are facts, i do not pull them out of the air. it is a problem that blacks in america are committing more crimes. now, we can talk about criminal justice reform all we want to but until we get to the root of the problem, which is a family, an in-tact family -- mr. joseph talked about food deserts. when your mom is 13 years old, she is not voice know about healthy eating, so you can have all the great food -- you can have grocery stores until they come out of your p yang yang so to speak, as my mother with a, we have like the mother who slept her son, people are applauding her. -- as my mother would say, we have, like the mother who slapped her son, the people are applauding her.

i want to go back to this thug idea. we had president obama referred to the criminality going on a baltimore, the looting, the rioting. if you look at rappers like jay-z and you look at what is going on in hip-hop "empire," if you will, the new "hit" series on fox -- thug is glorified. a black man calling his woman a hoe and a b-i-t-c-h and a c-u-n-t, that is like coulter. you see it played out in the street, you see it played out in music, you see it played out in a lot of ways that black america is consuming media if you will and young black males, because they lack black role models in their home, look to that and say i want to be a boller like that, i want to go thugging like that.

and finally, one other thing the caller with a -- i have not walked in people's shoes, i have not been profiled -- i have been profiled many times. i have been pulled over in richmond virginia those in graduate school, was pulled over by the police coming back from a dinner date. i do not like it, but i put up with it because the reality is we are blacks, we make ourselves suspicious because we are committing more of a crime. isn't it funny that we complain about profiling and all of this, and what happened in baltimore, in ferguson? we do the very thing that we complain about the police for treating us. do not treat us as different but then we are going to act more crazy and destroy our neighborhood. i am all for equality, and i will argue until black americans are demanding is being treated as equals, they are not going to be -- i mean, it is absolutely insane. host: let me to mr. joseph, and

we need to get more calls, please. guest: when you think about baltimore and ferguson there is so much political organizing going on. so this idea that african americans are victims -- that is not what i'm saying at all. they are certainly targets of racial and economic exportation, but from the black lives matter movement that has sprung up last year to all of these different organizing movements, some of them are clergy, many of them are students, grassroots movements, lgbt, there have been white activists connected to this, black women have been leaders here. we think about alicia garza of the black lives matter movement phil of the dream defenders there is so much hope in the air because so many young people -- we think about the civil rights movement from 1954 to 1955, and we think about the black power movement, people like angela davis, the black panthers, who really had a piece of american

democracy but pushed a movement for radical social political culture, self-determination, we are seeing that again. this whole idea that somehow african americans are victims -- i would absolutely dispute that. what african-americans are doing is actually critiquing a system of racial and economic oppression that for too long we have refused to talk about as a nation. so what has been really, really heartening is all the organizing that we have seen, and we have another narrative from social media. i call social media the fifth estate because the fourth estate, mainstream media whether it is fox or cnn, has really demonized african-americans, and they have a perspective of -- why is this happening? you have different anchors saying they are so shocked, so surprised, even though ferguson happened last year, where the fifth estate of social media facebook, twitter, instagram, we see videos of young people who are reading, singing songs, and holding hands. there is something

transformative happening. there is a social justice movement, a civil rights movement happening all across this country. and people can feel it. this goes beyond what any president or presidential candidate can say because millions of people who are organizing for radical democracy in this country. host: peniel joseph of tufty university joining us, also crystal wright of conservativeblackchicks.com. victor from silver spring, maryland, republican, go ahead. caller: good morning. two quickie points. number one, and your real enemy are the illegal aliens. maryland is a thing to wear a state thanks to the democrats running the state into the ground, and they are welcoming all the illegal aliens they can. they are the ones that are taking the jobs away from the blacks. number 2 -- life matters huh? really? well get rid of the planned parenthood's letter in the middle of the black americans, then maybe i will believe that black lives matter.

host: mr. joseph, do you want to start? guest: yeah, when you think about what is going on, undocumented citizens are not the problem. what we need in this country is comprehensive immigration reform. but the whole idea that undocumented citizens are taking jobs away from african americans -- that is not true. what we need is a massive jobs program. we need a new new deal in this country, and one that is not just for african-americans but for latinos, whites, native americans, asian americans. even now we live in a context where after the great recession wall street is back up with record profits, and wall street and the nasdaq and different hedge funds. regular, average, ordinary americans and working class and working poor are doing worse than ever. one thing i can add is when we talk about thugs the reason why it is racist is because we only call african american people thugs.

if we call the wall street guys who committed corporate crimes and got off scott free and did not go to jail, if the president was calling them thugs i would have no problem with the word. when you frame a word just and directed at one racial ethnic group, it is racist. the whole reason why the calling of african-americans thugs is problematic is because we are only directing that isat them. so the whole idea that we are thugs, we are savages is racist, and it ignores the political context of genuine racial and economic exportation. there is a reason why hillary clinton said let's end mass incarceration in 2015. it is because we understand both policy experts, activists family, there are so many children being born to parents who are incarcerated -- one out of every 28 children. there is something tragically wrong about our justice system.

for african americans, it is an injustice system, and the problem is not undocumented citizens. host:guest: hillary clinton has not done anything for criminal justice reform. i feel like he is campaigning for ms. clinton. i'd way, her husband had a real tough on crime bill that was signed into law. so let's take hillary clinton out. back to thugs, black americans behave thugs and they will be continue to be called thugs. it is interesting that mr. joseph did not mention anything about the thug culture glorified by black america by consuming hip-hop that denigrates women that teaches glorification through violence. that is just ridiculous. as far as oh, undocumented workers -- you manyean illegals? people who broke laws to come here, they are not harming black jobs?

mr. joseph would say oh, there is no opportunity for blacks in an urban environment. we live in a democratic society. the 1964 civil rights act was passed the 1965 voting rights act, but suddenly black americans cannot get a job right? here is the reality to that -- blacks can get jobs, illegal immigrants willing to work point for hours a day, seven is a week under the -- seven days a week under the table does not help black america. i would remind mr. joseph that the unemployment rate nationwide under this president has consistently been double-digit compared to the national average. and i have a statistic for him because i guess he does not like facts. young black men between the ages of 20 and 24 have an unemployment rate of about 37%. 37% in baltimore. compared to 10% for white males and baltimore. so we know that immigration illegal immigration is not a friend of the black man.

so i do not know how on the one hand, mr. joseph can say oh there is no opportunity, and support illegal immigration on the other hand. i want to finally get to this notion of -- oh, we have an awakening of people in this country. there is no awakening. i think we are more racially divided in this country than we have ever been. and i think you can laugh, mr. joseph, because i think you find it really funny that people are calling the riots in baltimore "uprisings," i would like to plop you down there this week full stop you think you would feel safe? these are not uprisings. these are riotous, violence, criminal behaviors happening disproportionately in young black men and blackmun across this country who are behaving like thugs and until we denounce it and talk some real reform, which comes to the family, nothing is going to change, and i think we are in a crisis that black and white america are very much separated. like the kerner report said. host: let me get a call in.

lebron, georgia, independent line. hi. caller: hi. i would like to make a couple of very important comments. i would also like to state that i am a white person, 63 years of days. ag i was drivinge. -- 63 years of age. i was driving an amg mercedes, i worked on a campaign for jim hammond, and i was only watched by a state trooper, mr. charles david makemcdaly, leave a parking lot, and he followed me for miles proceeded to follow into a walgreens, where he could not answer a question of probable cause of following me, and he got heated and beat me all over my car, he beat me on the ground he done i right in

front of apathetic white peoplet, and they done nothing. the problem is the police -- well, she just defined in a moment ago. a thug is a person that will destroy their own community. that is exactly what is going on here, and i will tell you why. i observed this for years. chattanooga, tennessee, and north georgia, i lived here for most of my life, and the judicial system and the law enforcement is ran for profit. it does not matter black or white around here, i can guarantee you. if they can make a dollar off of you or if you offend one of these people, they will be you, they will shoot you, they will do anything -- and i tell you what, they never get accountability. these body cameras -- you can forget about them. they are going to use them to advertise of the attacking them. you will never see them being prosecuted because of anybody camera footage.

i was also accosted at the deal. i said look, i work on mr. hammond's campaign, you cannot do this to me. i know who to go talk to. let me tell you something. we subpoenaed the video footages of the attacks on me at the jail and i was actually standing there so passive that i told them, i said, you guys act like this all the time? you are just acting like buffoons. there is nobody after you, there is nobody threatening you. but they still threatens me over and over again. host: lebron, thanks for your story for so we will let our guests respond for stop guest:. guest: he raises an interesting point. we do not hear about it when people like this man is brutalized by police. it does not make headlines. seecnn is not advertise it.

in fairfax county, there was a white male, unarmed white male gunned down. the police officer has been suspended. serious circumstances as to why he was shot, i believe in the chest. it was during an afternoon in fairfax county in his townhome. his partner of 20 something years with moving out, they have gotten into an argument, he did not have a gun. he was shot in the door frame of the townhome, and his family begged for medical assistance as he lay dying. the police did not give any medical assistance, and some suspect that the officer is hispanic. we'll see no coverage of this, no outrage will stop it has been 20 months and counting, and nothing has been done. the fairfax county police to permit settled with the family to the tune of -- the lawsuit -- $3 million. but there have been no charges

filed against this officer. he has been allowed to run around, be suspended. we have no justice, no peace no outrage from anybody rioting. there have been protests in fairfax county. i do not remember any riots by black or white americans over this man's death. i think there are bad police officer's, absolutely. police brutality occurs, as we saw with freddie gray. and i commend the state prosecutor the baltimore state prosecutor, marilyn mosby, i believe her name is. she gave a wonderful, straightforward press conference, she did not politicize things, and let's hope she really means that she will follow justice and the facts wherever they leave her but we have to knowledge that black men are not the only men being wrongfully brutalized by law enforcement. host: mr. joseph, go ahead

guest:. guest: well, when it comes to law enforcement, the criminal justice system away from presidential contenders making speeches, many people have been working on this. you have got the brennan center at nyu, you have different scholars mohammed, weaver, thompson, so many people working on this issue, and you have groups like families against mandatory minimums and others. what we need to understand is that the criminal justice system in its entirety is a gateway to racial and economic oppression. white people and latino people suffer as well. the highest rates of suffering are african american, second are latinos, but whites are eight times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes over the last 30 years. when we think about this period that we are in. too many people are in jail for far too long, and what we have done -- and one thing i will say, vis-à-vis the clintons,

certainly -- and i've written about this -- bill clinton, the on the bus crime bill of 1994 amplified our problem of mass incarceration that is rooted in the era of ronald reagan and the 1982, 1986 anti-drug acts. so when we think about what is going on now, we put so many people in the jail we have gone from 350,000 in prison in 1980 to 2.1 million, and really it is 7 million when you think about probation and parole. we have young kids who are being taken out of their classrooms as young as 7, 8, 9, 10 years old, in handcuffs, and their white counterparts -- that is not happen. this goes back to even before this. we have a criminal justice system, and we can see this through racial outcomes. if people want to check out stats, monique morris has a

book "black stats," which has up-to-date figures are not only the criminal justice system but everything from health care to unemployment and all of the social economic indicators that show how do we measure racism in between for century. -- in the 21st century full stop it is through outcomes. we do not just need opportunity in the 21st century -- we need equality of outcomes if we are talking about real racial and economic justice. host: peniel joseph of top university, crystal wright editor and poster of conservativeblackchicks.com -- editor and publisher of conservativeblackchicks.com. diono you are up nextn. caller: it is me, don, again. the young lady, she is going to get her and coulter badge soon. she is as bad as all of the white folks who call in here and

discuss this. it is just what they want to hear, but my point is that all of the education that you two people have, it seems to me that you should know that your nationality is a jew and you have been jews ever since they kicked us out of israel in 70 a.d. the romans took over and they kicked us out and took our identity. and then that happened, then they took us here, brought us here to america on the slave ships and gave us a false god and told us that jesus christ was a white man. host: don, to the events in baltimore this week, do you have anything to add on that? caller: yeah, we were sold to our enemies. host: connie is up next, from new jersey, democrats line. hello.

caller: hello i was going to talk about baltimore, but is crystal, who took everything to be a political thing i want to talk to her. the inner cities do not have jobs. my granddaughter who graduated from rutgers in science and communications does not have a job. i mean, 74 years old, i help her to pay about $70,000 in loans. where is the jobs? why should i blame the companies? when you call for your credit card, it is india. when you call for medicine, it is another country. so if all of these jobs were here, our people have jobs. this is wrong.

and people like her, who at fox news who everything is placed to the democrats, i feel sorry for. i really feel sorry for her. host: that is connie from new jersey, ms. wright. guest: connie, i am on c-span today, i do not work for fox news channel i am not a paid contributor. i have thought about this long and hard as a black woman who lives in the nation's capital, but you make a great point connie when i call any company abuses and my customer service is routed to india, two people i do not really understand some of they do not speaking was well. those are jobs who could be brought back here, including apple, by the way, who makes all of their products in china. the reason why that is happening is because we need corporate tax reform, which the republicans have been trying to get the president to focus on. the united states of america has the highest corporate tax in the world, so there is no incentive

to bring jobs back here. and let's look at baltimore. taxation. the reason why companies have fled baltimore in droves to places like virginia and texas is because under democrat since the 1960's, you have had a high taxation policy that makes the companies flee. then if copies want to come back to baltimore -- dennis companies want to come back to baltimore baltimore has a government economy for the only jobs income but -- in baltimore are crony-related. they rely on something called federal and state subsidies, connie. subsidies are basically your tax dollars and my tax dollars that the city taxes, and the state, and they give millions of dollars to these companies to actually, you know, run businesses, and i think that is

wrong. businesses should want to be in states to provide jobs and make money, but when the tax burden is so high, this is what happens. and in cities like baltimore like washington, d.c., you have people who sit on the city council who get kickbacks, they get campaign donations from these developers so the poor black people in baltimore and washington d.c., where unemployment is like, over 30% for black residents, nobody benefits from that. nobody at all. i do not agree with connie that she thinks i am some -- or your previous caller who thinks i'm some mouthpiece. what is troublesome about these comments about me as a black woman who is conservative that somehow i want to be white pedro. i'm not a white woman. and you are not a white man.

like women have to start shipping different thoughts. i do not agree with mr. joseph. i am happy to talk to him today, but we should not engage in personal attacks because we have different philosophical beliefs. host: let's let mr. joseph respond. guest: i agree that we should not engage in personal attacks. i felt some times that was happening, not in my direction. when we think about jobs and we think about the tax structure and race in this country, it is really, really important to remember that trickle-down economics have not worked for african-americans or the nation. thomas because he has the best-selling book "a the 21st century" -- thomas the piketty have the best-selling book, "capital in the 21st century," come out last year. relative economic growth in the history of the american republic, so when we think about what we have done since then,

stagflation, we have gone beyond crony capitalism. right now, we have an oligarchy in the country will he think about the lack of campaign finance reform, when we think about the great recession, where the government bailed out private industry and banks that were too big to fail, but did not bailout college students who have loans, it did not bailout poor people, and it did not bailout mortgage owners, so something is dramatically wrong with our political and economic system. most americans understand that something is wrong, but they always get back to the racism where we blame african americans or we blame latinos for what is going on when what is really happening is that a very tiny group of americans are controlling our political system. you can see it with tax policy when we think about the so-called death tax and real estate taxes that affect about 4000 families with you states --- with estates of over $5

million. congress says let's eliminate that tax for ever. anything about what is going on, how we you help cities like baltimore? certainly we need fairer taxes for poor people who are paying fines and warrants and have all kinds of hidden fees, even as they are living below the poverty line. to bring the jobs back to this country -- what we would need to do is have a public jobs works program. we have infrastructure nationally that is failing. everybody agrees we could actually employ so many people to just rebuild and restore american infrastructure throughout all 50 states, yet congress has refused to do so. we have a major problem with inequality, but we see wealth just region from the poor were too the richer, and we've the biggest inequality gap since the gilded age of the late 19th century's with the rockefellers, the vanderbilts, the carnegies

in this country. host: next caller, independent line, michigan. caller: good morning, pedro joseph, and ms. wright. i want to slow it down. there is no real call for personal tax for each of our guests today. i will not be long, but i would like to imply that there is a disparity in helping small businesses. real quick a brief history on myself, i have been in business for about 20 years flooring, restoration of homes, all of that. i have employees. nine young men. and i'm sure there are a whole bunch of guys like myself -- or women as well -- we want to employ, however, because there is such a disparity and even

attaining small business funds to keep stuff going, i mean, i have not went out of business, but it has really been a struggle. and i do know that if funding was available, i could probably hire twice as much. now, last comment, a text from martin luther king's speech from the 1960's, no different from the ones of today. there is a disparity and without america cashing the check that we have been given, african-americans and browns, without that check be in cash, there is systematic racism and ms. wright, no personal tax you but conservatism has may be, a narrow view. host: thanks, calvin.

guest: if conservatism has a narrow view, i would like to know what you think about democrats. blacks, over 90% as a race, continue voting democrat on the city, state, and federal level, and we have not been benefited by that, but i do want to go like to what mr. joseph said about the bank bailouts of 2008. i did not agree with them. i do not think we should have bailed out the banks. i did not get telecom a calvin did not get a bailout. i am a small business owner. the taxation on the is great. i am keenly aware of the struggle to operate a small business. i think with respect to student loans, we need to reform really the student loan process, which means getting the federal government out of making student loans because when universities

and colleges across the country like the one you teach at, mr. joseph tufts the average tuition is what, over $40,000 a year? astronomical. private and public institutions keep on jacking up their institutions because they know they have got a guaranteed federal government that is going to pay these loans that these kids take out that they cannot afford. if students take out loans to go to college, they should pay them back. i should not have to pay them back, you should not have to pay them back, and not immigration go to college. i think there is a conversation to be had for community college and vocational training, mr. joseph. i am sure you would agree it to me -- maybe not your parents' generation, but mine, when my parents were in high school, they could go into vocational training, become a mechanic, an electrician, a homemaker. i have never written a small check to a plumber or an electrician, i do not know about you guys.

that is a way to create jobs. going back to corporate america, i agree with mr. joseph. these corporations, what people do not understand, is so many federal and state subsidies to set up shop. that is that ray just stop i do not get a subsidy to do business for stop i will give you another example about this. -- that is outrageous. i do not a subsidy to do business. i will give you another example about this. we will do it partnership with the public schools we will send people in, tell them about our business, have internships, give kids summer jobs because when a company sets up shop in a city like baltimore or d.c. and young people and their parents have a job to go to and they feel invested in that city, they will not commit crime or destroy the city they are part of. we need to put more cap ability on these corporations if we are going to give them subsidies. d.c. for example marriott, a big corporation based in

bethesda. i was stunned to find out that marriott just redid the marriott marquis downtown in downtown d.c., mr. joseph, and i'm sure you will agree with this. i think it was a $100 million renovation. they got millions upon millions of dollars of subsidies from the district of columbia to renovate the jw marriott and provide jobs to d.c. residence, but the reality is they are not providing a lot of jobs. i think it was something like $200 million they got in d.c. taxpayer money. i do not think they should beginning that money. host: mr. joseph. guest: a couple of things vis-à-vis the caller and then what ms. wright has been saying. one, the small business administration vis-à-vis minority businesses and african american owned businesses, have given out a lot less in loans than under the previous administration. that is something that the obama

administration should be held accountable to. when it comes to this idea of dr. king, the whole idea of a cached check -- cashed check that is, from the march on washington speech, and he says we have come today to cash a check, a check that has been stamped "insufficient funds," so dr. king was talking about reparations and redistributive justice. one of the things we forget was martin luther king jr. during the last years of his life, this is in a way triggered by the uprising in august 1965, which occurred five days after the signing of the voting rights act, and it occurred because of police brutality in a predominately african american community, king really switches course. for the next two point five years, king is on a movement for radical economic justice in this country. he died in memphis, tennessee on

april 4, 1968, helping to lead striking sanitation workers who were working for starvation wages in memphis tennessee, but he is leading a poor people campaign working with women from the national welfare rights organization and leaders of that group. and he is really talking about economic justice. remember, king says in 1968 that the triple threats r facing humanitarian -- facing humanity are military -- we do not remember the radical or revolutionary martin luther king jr. student loans, i agree with ms. wright esters are spending too much on college tuition, but certainly -- we have $1 trillion in student loan debt, that is

reportedly affect african americans, latinos, and first-generation white college students. what the government could do, even if it is not a complete forgiven of that -- for giving a vested own debt, but haven't where they are paying it back dollar for dollar at 0% or 1%, which would mean so much for one generation. even if we bail out banks, with the trouble asset relief program, the t.a.r.p., we refuse to bail out ordinary americans. and the woman who was talking about her granddaughter who graduated from rutgers, one thing i will note when it comes to race, the sociologist at harvard has done the testing and has got the data where african-american men with college degrees to go out for jobs have about the same chance of getting a job as a white man with a high school degree with a felony conviction. when we think about unemployment

rates, the reason why unemployment rates historically for african americans are double, triple and certainly i have known the stats about young black men and women who have unemployment rate in the 30% 40%, 50% in some cities is because of structural racism. i will end right here -- nationally we are in denial about the depth and breadth of racial exploitation and institutional racism in our country. host: you have heard from two people about events in baltimore for w just heard from peniel joseph of tufts university, the founding director crystal wright, editor and publisher of conservativeblackchicks.com. to both of you, thank you for joining us today. guest: thank you for having me. host: coming up, we will learn about taxes, especially when it comes to professional sports leagues. sports economist andrew zimbalist will talk about the

national football league giving up their tax exempt status. we will have more as "washington journal" continues after this. ♪ >> she embraced the role of first lady and wore the finest fashions and look like a queen hosting parties to help her husband's political agenda, and during the war of 1812 when british troops invaded the capital, she is credited as saving a portrait of george washington and other valuables from the white house. dolly madison on c-span's original series "first lady ies," examining the public and private life of the women who filled the position of first lady from martha washington to michelle obama on american history tv on c-span3. as a component of the series, c-span's new book is available, "first ladies: presidential

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massachusetts, andrew zimbalist with smith college, the robber was professor of economics. he does focus on the world of sports. thank you for joining us. guest: good to be with you pedro. host: the recently invited you on was a headline with all this week when it comes to the nfl, the decision they made to give up their tax exempt status. could you paint the picture for us about not only the actions of the nfl but what led up to their decision? guest: sure. i think the background primarily is that the nfl has been criticized very widely especially over the last year and a half, with the ray rice case and domestic violence about being a league that was mismanaged. the chief executive officer or commissioner of the league, mr. roger goodell was receiving a salary to years ago of $44

million, and last year's salary of $35 million so $79 million in compensation where people are looking at this league that does not seem to be directed very well, and they have made a lot of missteps in the domestic violence area. so the media kind of jumped on this and said that the nfl is tax exempt. that was a mischaracterization. not everybody in the media did it, but many media sources said the nfl is tax exempt. that is a mischaracterization of the facts. there are 32 teams in the nfl. each one is subject to taxes like every other corporation in the united states will stop some of them are very very profitable, and they do pay corporate and income tax. tax exempt is the league office the office that coordinates the

activities of the league and promotes the business of professional football. and fundamentally it is a pass-through organization. the fact that they were tax-exempt, they had a status of 501(c)6, which is one of the tax exempt categories and the irs code, the fact that they were tax-exempt meant very little because the central office -- if it sees itself at the end of your have a more revenue than cost, they can distribute that extra revenue to the teams and tmmake the surplus or net income disappear, and therefore avoid any corporate income tax. the central office of the nfl is very similar to the chamber of commerce or the american medical association or the medical dental association or the association of economists, the american economics association. these are all 501(c)6

organizations that are trying to promote the activities in their area or in their business. now, what the nfl was primarily try to do was say ok, we do not want our tax exempt and anymore, we do not want that status anymore, is to get the media off their backs and to stop having this distracting conversation about the nfl broadly speaking, being tax-exempt or broadly speaking getting some handout from the u.s. government, which was never the case. now, having said that, there is one very small area where the nfl has benefited from its tax exempt status, and that is this. there is a little irony here. back in the late 1990's, the nfl introduce a program called the g3 program, and out is called the g4 program, it is a little bit bigger. it was a program whereby the nfl would essentially make a grant to a team that was building a new stadium and contribute up to $150 million of nfl money

towards the construction of a stadium, which primarily lowered the public subsidy for stadium building across the united states in those communities that had professional nfl teams. so they would issue these bonds, the nfl would issue bonds, borrow money, and make a grant to the team so the team could pay part of the stadium expense. those bonds, because the nfl have the tax exempt status those bonds were tax-exempt therefore the nfl was able to borrow money at a lower interest rate than the otherwise would have. because they are switching away from their tax-exempt status to a non-tax-exempt status, those bonds will now no longer be tax, and the estimate is, and the estimate is roughly $10 million of $10 million will go to the irs or u.s. treasury as a result of this new status. in turn, the nfl does not have

to report the salaries of its top five executives. all tax-exempt organizations have to fill us of the called the 990 form and that 990 form has to list the top paid executives in the way. they cannot have to do that anymore. back in 2007, major league baseball decided that having the tax exempt status was more headaches than it was worth, and they abandoned their tax exempt status. the nba has never had a tax exempt status post of the nhl is the only remaining sports team in the united states that retains its tax-exempt status. host: if you have questions for them about things you have heard, questions you may have heard about this issue, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, and (202) 748-8002 for independents.

you can also tweet us @cspanwj. this decision by the nfl also got the interest of congress. several members of congress tweeting out in reaction to it including senator cory booker of new jersey. he said -- it is only right to end the nfl's tax-exempt status. new revenues should be directed to the domestic violence prevention programs. tell us about congress' interest in this issue. guest: i think it is an opportunity for grandstanding, primarily. it is a very small amount of money at present, and it is very unlikely that the nfl will reconfigure its loan program or grant program for stadiums. when they do that, it might actually lower the team contribution to stadiums that are renovated or built in the future. in the short run, this year, as i say, estimates are about $10 million to the irs. those won't continue.

they will diminish. they might disappear altogether. there is very little tax revenue at stake here. the nfl, as i said before, has 32 teams. all of them are subject to the income tax will suffering great, i like cory booker. he and other senators who are ranting and raving about this are doing a lot of grandstanding. he can get a platform when he talks about the nfl. it is the most popular sports league in our country. it is one of the most popular activities, rooting for nfl teams in our country. when you talk about the nfl, people listen, the media pays attention, and you get to be a populist. you get to pound your chest and say the big guys are taking advantage, and we can take the money, instead of giving into the fat cat owners, we should put in into housing or other programs. it really at this point is such a small drop in the bucket, and no drop in the bucket at all going forward. the time would be better spent by members of congress to look at other issues. host: here is john from

gatlinburg tennessee. republican line for our guests andrew zimbalist. john, go ahead. caller: yes, sir, good morning. i do not agree with tax anyway. it should be a 10% across the board for personal business, anything. the sports leagues, the government takes in $3 trillion a year now for the irs on our taxes. if you add the sports leagues into it and cut it down to a flat 10% rate across the board for personal and business, including the leagues, more money is going to come in, which means a flat tax or a straight tax like that would be -- we would not bring in no less even then we are doing now. just like ge, they don't pay no taxes, and they charge us three times or four times what our electricity ought to be already, but they get many millions from the

guest: the call is misinformed. the taxation status of the nfl will have no impact whatsoever on the $3 billion collected by the i.r.s. host: david is up next from georgia on the democratic line. caller: i think it is ridiculous that the nfl is tax exempt, period. don't make any sense to me. with all the problems in the world and america. host: ok. guest: this is the reason the nfl ended the tax exempt status. there are a lot of people in the united states who believe what the last caller said, that the nfl is getting some very large and significant tax break by being tax exempt. it is not true. the only thing that has been tax

exempt and won't be going forward is the central office. the central office doesn't have any owners of last resort. no one walks whom with profits from the nfl. it is a pass-through organization. if they have a surplus in the central office they can distribute it to clubs and make it disappear. so the tax exempt status had virtually no impact whatsoever on social issues, public spending, tax collection or anything else. the nfl chose to end that because so many people in the united states who believe what the last call are believes, which is that there was some scam going on here and some special privilege the nfl had. now they are end being the tax exempt status and people who believe what the last caller believed won't have to worry about it any more. host: does the nfl have other subsidies as a corporation? will is nfl films and things. do they get taxed as well?

. all of the central organizations that generate independent income in the nfl either go to finance the cost of those entities or the cost of the central office, or they get redistributed to the owners of the teams. when they are redistributed to the owners the profits of the teams go up or net income goes up and they have to pay more corporate income tax. so there is no scam going on. host: indianapolis, indiana. curt is up next. caller: taxwise i'm not into concerned with. i know in our city the staeutte state has close to $750 million on the backs of the citizens for this

stadium. how do you feel as an economist when we are subsidizing the team at the rate of $750 million and pay for improvements in the stadium, had computer systems break, roofs leak, questions of who owns property and where they own it. how does the league have the heavy hand across america and threaten to move if we don't put the money in? i don't worry about the tax. it appears that the revenue in relationship to what their outlay is is so controlled. then if you figure out they probably amortize the players' salary how do they get away with that? guest: thank you for your question or comment. i think that you have put your finger on a much more important issue. i will say a few things about it. first of all the nfl, language with the other professional team sports leagues are monopolies.

the courts have seen them as monopolies. the nfl is the only organization that provides top level professional football in the united states. same thing about the nba and professional basketball. as monopolies they basically do what monopolists always do which is they artificially restrict output relative to demand. when you have more scarcity in the number of franchises each franchise is more valuable and has more bargaining power vis-a-vis cities in the united states. the nfl has a team in green bay wisconsin, since the early 19 1920's. it is a community of 100,000 people. there are lots of kphaourpbts with a larger population base that would love an nfl team. so with only 32 franchises the nfl gets to play cities off of each other and they get to extract subsidies in most cases. the case in foxborough,

massachusetts, with the patriots and gillette stadium or in the meadowlands in new jersey at metlife, those are privately funded facilities. in most cases the nfl can extract substantial public subsidies because of their, a, their popularity and, b, that they have a lot of market power as a monopolist. so that is an issue. now, i think one thing that is important to understand with regard to this $10 million i was talking about is that the only benefit conceivably that the nfl got from the tax exempt status is they were able to issue tax exempt bond. those bonds were used by the nfl to give to the teams so the teams could make a larger private contribution to the building of the stadiums. so in the case for instance of

metlife stadium in the meadowlands of new jersey the nfl made a $200 million grant to the jets and a $200 million grant to the giants, $400 million, plus money from the teams went to construct the stadium. so the only place where the nfl possibly was getting a very small tax advantage was in the place where they were trying to create a program that reduced public subsidies. so there's an irony there. nonetheless, i think that your question is well taken. you also pointed out that there is a tax preference -- or tax shelter -- with respect to the ability of sports teams to amortize their player contracts. that rule has actually changed in 2002 i believe it was, may have been 2003 or 2004. but around 10 or 12 years ago it was changed. before it used to be they were

able to amortize the so-called value of the players contracts. now they can amortize all of their intangible assets which is most of the valuable of the assets of an nfl terrorizefranchise. that does create a nice tax shelter. so this discussion about the nfl possibly getting advantages is misfocused. it should be focused on other questions. host: pennsylvania, republican line john up next. caller: how are you doing, guys today? the nfl has a bigger friend than just the economic issues and that is the f.b.i. if you look at the situation with rice they had that shut down in atlantic city and video got out and muller the retired f.b.i. agent whose firm got $43 million shut it down. i will go off the track to penn state. if you look at the penn state they can take you down. an f.b.i. agent got $15 million

and winston the quarterback in florida f.b.i. connected firm got $11 million. if you connect these dots you will see it saves them millions of dollars with the f.b.i. the right wing organization that is the police department for all of these teams. host: any thought? guest: i don't want to touch that. i'm not going to connect the dots. host: here is a question off twitter saying is the nfl getting us to look away from an antitrust challenge by giving away tax exempt status? guest: no. the nfl does not have an antitrust exemption. i have gotten calls from journalists asking me the same question. the nfl doesn't have an antitrust exemption. what the nfl does have since 196 1961, from the sports

broadcasting act of december of 1961, is the same ability that all of the sports leagues in the united states have, which is to bargain for the television rights for national televising of their games or some of their games with the networks and with the major cable channels. they can cartelize their television rights. but they don't have monopoly rights. they don't have ability to restrain trade in their other areas. what the courts have repeatedly said is -- and most recently in the american needle case -- the nfl is not a single entity and the courts should look at each particular instance of alleged restraint of trade separate from all other instances. you have to evaluate -- this is legal terminology -- you have to evaluate for everything the nfl does the pro competitive benefit

benefits versus the anticompetitive harms done. so you apply the rule of reason. there is no blanket tax exemption -- excuse me -- antitrust exemption for the nfl. so it is not the case that the nfl is trying to divert attention away from a move to take away its antitrust exemption because it doesn't have an antitrust ex-essential. host: terrence in new york, independent line. caller: yes, sir. dr. zimbalist, i think you are missing a big issue in terms of taxes and tax exemption. and it is the real estate tax. for one example, the yankee stadium, the new yankee stadium which the city of new york and state of new york, i believe, built for the organization. of course, it was all with that

thing this everybody is a yankee fan and we want the team to stay, that is true. citi field. same thing. they wanted the mets to stay in new york. meadowlands another one, jets and giants. from new york, play in new jersey in a real estate tax exempt ball parbgk. real estate taxes do not get paid on those stadiums. that to me is totally un unjustifiable. it is why you see the squalor just a few blocks away from yankee stadium and the meadowlands. host: we will let our guest respond respond, terrence. guest: first of all, the construction of yankee stadium $1.5 billion of cost was privately funded. the construction of citi field $800 million was privately funded by the mets.

the construction of the meadowlands stadium where the giants and jets play was privately funded. there is no public funding in the construction of those stadiums. now the giants and jets do have a practice facility where there was public money. there was some structural money put in around citi field in queens and around yankee stadium in the bronx. but the fields themselves were privately funded. it is very common, as the call are identified, it is very commoner these stadiums to be nominal nominally owned by the city or county and when it is not the city or county doesn't carjack real estate or property tax and they are right about that and the team's ability to have that advantage again derives from their market power and popularity as a sports league. host: laurel maryland. barney is next republican line.

caller: i'm a registered republican and something was said earlier in the program and that is that once the tax exempt status is taken away that means that the owners and officials of the game of the league do not have to report the salaries any more. if that is correct, then they don't have to disclose the complication that is of all the top officials in the league -- exception exception compensation. without that disclosure it appears it is not good for the football fans all together. looking at baseball, for example, the cost for a fan to go to a game and so forth is extremely expensive. number two, there are black out

outing. i'm a new york mets fan and i cannot see a mets game here in laurel without paying a lot extra for different programming. now, with the compensation not being disclosed, number one, number two it seems to me there is going to be an increase eventually in the cost for any fan to watch programs or even attend the stadium. i would like to have the doctor's comments about the increasing cost for in, number one, and number two the fact that compensation will not be disclosed any more to the public. thank you very much. guest: first of all, i'm not sure what you mean when you say the officials. it is not the referees or umpires or anybody else connected to the pplgs of the games whose salary disclosure is at stake. the only thing that is at stake

is when you are a tax exempt organization, either a charity or pass-through organization, you have to fill out a 990 form and accepted it to the i.r.s. and that requires you to report the salary of the top five paid executives in your organization. it is just toes five individuals. so for the nfl the main story here is roger goodell's salary will no longer be publicly published. there will be rumors. the press will say somebody said goodell is making $30 million or $40 million. it won't be that much difference in terms of information. now you asked some other questions and i'm not sure, maybe -- is the caller still on line? host: he left but let me ask you at least in an historical context how did the front office of the nfl, how did they receive this tax exemption in the

finishes place? how did that happen? guest: it was 1942 in the case of the nfl they applied for tax exemption. the i.r.s. code has a section that is called tax exempt status, tax exempt organizations. most of us think of things like the red cross or a variety of different charities. there are different categories of charities. some are straight charity organizations, some have a political purpose. but then there is another category which is a 50 11(c)6 category. they are organizations that promote the activities of a sector of the economy, of a professional organization, of a business. in that category is the chime better of commerce -- chamber of kpherbgs the american medical association or american economic association. there are dozens of such

organizations that fit into in 50 501(c)6 category that are tax exempt. they applied for it and were deemed to fit the criteria for gaining that status and they did. as i pointed out in 2007 major league baseball, which had that status, made the conversion. they didn't want to have tax exempt status any more. they didn't want to have to fill out the 990 forms any more. now the nfl has made that choice. host: some of the leagues under attack naacp nhl pga, lpga. what factors go into them holding on to tax exemption versus their giving it up? guest: i think they are historically looking at a status that they have as a pass-through

organization and saying this 50 501(c)6 status is the status we fit. those definitions are definitions we fit so they applied to have that and there is not to be any ambiguity what might happen if they should have a small surplus in any particular year. but, if any of them have a small surplus and they don't have tax exempt status, they can simply distribute that to the teams and make their surplus disappear. so they would show zero net income and the tax rate, 35% tax of zero is zero. they won't pay any corporate income tax. host: brighton, massachusetts, independent line. steven sunis up next. stpwhrao have you done any other economic studies on the net benefit from the tax exempt

status particularly in the construction of stadiums, whether or not that might also be used to provide a list in disadvantaged markets where a new team might be performing and whether it represents a trend with the nfl leaving tax exempt status, whether that might be a trend that impacts the formation of new leagues and i'm thinking primarily of soccer leagues and interest in building a new soccer stadium in the boston market. guest: the advantages and public subsidies that the nfl often gets when they build stadiums, or any other league might get when they build stadiums, has nothing to do with the tax exempt status. except as i noted before, there is one connection and it is an ironic connection, which is that the nfl, so far as they derive

an advantage of tax exempt status is they had a program to help finance stadiums with private money rather than using public money. but now that the nfl is going away from that it won't impact the degree of public subsidy subsidization and won't interfere with the new england revolution in the effort to build a stadium in boston for the team. and my understanding of the krafts the owners they are planning to privately finance the stadium any way. host: los angeles, jack is next, democrats lane. aaron in columbia, salkouth carolina. caller: i have a few questions that were answered beforehand but now i have a question how is the front was able to be tax exempt and taxed differently we

the players themselves were as far as i'm aware, the players were attacked on capital gains rate? could you further explain that for me. guest: i'm not sure where you got the no, sir that players are taxed on a capital gains rate. the players' salaries are taxed as normal income. i don't think that is a correct premise. host: say in the nfl case they give up tax exempt -- i want to go back to congress's interest -- does this give congress less ability to bring them in meetings about domestic violence or concussions does congress lose their ability to do that because they don't have tax exempt status? . no. there is no connection. congress can have hers about domestic violence in the nfl any

time they want. this decision about tax exempt status has no impact in that regard. host: holbrooke massachusetts lisa lisa. caller: organic. how are you, -- good morning. how are you, professor. guest: good morning. caller: congratulations to the couple across the aisle on the baby girl. i lived up in amherst and a couple of parents i was talking to were mad they had to go to gillette stadium. host: what is your question? caller: does all of the taxes for gillette stadium stay in this area? guest: this area meaning what area are you referring to? host: southeastern mass. guest: i'm not sure when brought in the couple from amherst are you referring to the fact that umass place games in gillette

stadium? caller: i used to walk around amherst and they were complaining they had to bring the team up there and people up there. i was wondering if the moan stayed in the -- money stayed in the area. guest: property tax revenue stays in the area but any income taxes will be massachusetts massachusetts-wade. but for people not following what your question is, last year the university of massachusetts which is located in western massachusetts in amherst decided when they went up to the highest level of ncaa competition they decided to play their games not on the campus at umass but two hours away in foxborough, massachusetts. so a lot of fans of the umass football team are disappointed and students are disappointed that they have to travel for roughly two hours to get to the

football games. host: our guest has written a series of books look agent sports and other topics. kick gamble behind hosting the olympics and world cup. how often do you focus on sports related events? guest: since the early 1910eu990's almost all of my books have been on the business of sports. prior to that i did a lot of books on international economics, economic development in latin america. although i retain an interest there i have written backs primarily about sports business. host: as far as someone who follows what have you learned over writing as far as the business side of sports whether it be taxation or other aspects of it? guest: well first of all, like any other commodity that is very popular the producers of the commodity have a lot of market

power. that together with the fact that the major leagues in the united states are each of them a monopoly, they are the only producer of the top level at their sport, means that they have even more market power. so a lot of your callers are referring to the fact that this market power leaves them to a situation that is very favorable for them economically and often very favorable for them in terms of obtaining public subsidies. so, i think that is the underlaying feature of sports leagues. beyond that there are so many very interesting questions that revolve around how do you organize a sports league. because a sports league is very unlike any other business in the united states or in think other country. why is that so? because it is composed in the u.s. of 30 or 32 teams and to make the outcome or to make the product appealing to the fans they have to obtain or attain a degree of balance across the

fans. so, if it were the case that the boston red sox won the world series every year the fans in kansas city and estate and san diego and seattle, et cetera would pretty soon lose interest. you have to have a degree of parity or balance. that is not true in think other industry. you don't need g.m. chrysler and ford to have roughly the same degree of profits toor revenue for good cars to be produced. so you have to have a degree of cooperation and structuring of rules within a sports league that allows the product to succeed. i think that fundamental feature of a sports league separates out the dynamics much its economy from the other sectors of the u.s. economy and makes it very interesting to study. host: james, houston texas, independent line. you are on with our guest andrew zimbalist of smith college.

caller: i was going to ask the professor if he was aware that you haven't seen boxing on broadcast tv for 30 years and all boxing fans know that the nfl banned boxing from network tv tv. this is a predatory behavior by a monopoly. great show. thank you. guest: are you asking if i know the nfl banned boxing from network television? host: he dropped off. i apologize. guest: no, i don't think that is true. boxing is very different than all the sports that i have been talking about this morning. it is obviously something that has fallen off in popularity tremendously the last several decades. they are still able to pull off a megaevent like they will did tonight. but it is very difficult to have a network technical vision

contract for one event. moreover, bob arum and the producers of this fight find it more profitable to sell for $99 for somebody to see the fight. as i'm sure the caller knows, they are going to be raking in a record amount of money for a single sporting event. i think boxing still has enough cache to pull off one of these mega mega events every couple years but they tkfr the popularity in the united states to have an ongoing production of boxing on television. host: we were talking about the tax, settlement status of the nfl and other related issues. thanks for your time this morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: we are going to take a break and then we are going to have open phones for our last half hour. here are the numbers that you can call.

we will take up the open phones and "washington journal" continues after this. >> 150 years ago this went a grieving nation gathered along the route of abraham lincoln's funeral train from washington to springfield, illinois. this sunday afternoon at 2:30 on american history tv on c-span 3 we are live from oak ridge cemetery to commemorate the anniversary of him's funeral with a recreation of the 1865 eulogy, speeches and musical performances an historians an authors. also on c-span this weekend tonight 8:00 the festivities of

the state visit of the japanese prime minister including his arrival at the white house and toast at the dinner in his honor. sunday morning 10:30 the supreme court oral arguments on the issue of same-sex marriage on whether the 14th amendment requires a state to license a marriage between two people of the same sex. on c-span 2 book tv tonight 10:00 on after words away look at the live of michelle obama from childhood through the white house. sunday noon on "in depth" our conversation with documentary film make and offer john ronson. join the conversation and we will take your phone calls, e-mail facebook comments and tweets. get the complete schedule at

c-span.org. >> here are a few books we will cover. in the middle of may we visit maryland for the gaithersburg back festival with tom davis and martin frost as well as former senior advisor to president obama david axelrod. we will close out may at book expo america in new york city where the publishing industry showcases their upcoming books. the first week in june we are live for the "chicago tribune" printer's rowfest including the in-depth program with lawrence wright. that is this spring on c-span 2's book tv. "washington journal" continues. host: the "star-ledger" of new jersey on its front page talks about karpls that much brought in a nine-count indictment

looking at the closing of the bridge in new jersey. the author writes after 16 months of investigation federal prosecutors outlined out three allies of chris christie used their powers to carry out a political vendetta against the democratic mayor of fort lee for refusing to endorse his re-election. they shut down two of the three local access lanes to the george washington lane knowing and intending it would gridlock fort lee. the attorney said in a news conference said that. a follow-up story talks about kelly and getting her reaction saying that she is innocent and will no longer allow a lie saying on friday she said let me make something very clear. i'm not guilty of these charges and see challenged the way she was portrayed in a report

compiled by the team of lawyers saying i'm not stupid, i'm qualified qualified. i believe i was and still am a very qualified hard working woman that took pride being a loyal public employee although governor christie himself sent out a tweet saying about the situation as well. we will show you more stories as we go along on this open phone. let's start with bob in boca raton, that. . go ahead. caller: gardeningood morning. i wanted to make a general comment that i'm no politician, i'm no expert on politics, but i'm really just joe average. but the root of all evil is this system of campaign finance.

i pay attention, i'm just a general guy that tries to pay attention to what is going on. everything is so obscure. politicians -- none of the politicians say what they mean. they don't mean what they say. they are two-faced. i think that people like me, regular people, i vote, we have common sense. we get what is going on. but i watched this correspondents dinner on c-span and was really sickened by the thought that all of these sort of news, so-called news reporters are so cozyied up and in bed with all the politicians not really doing their job they are like little movie stars themselves. the politicians' egos, the

people on tv, the spin doctors and pundits everybody's egos are out front and everybody is dressed in designer this and that and thousands of dollars just to put on a dress or tux or whatever it might be. the job is not getting done from the politicians. the job is not getting done from the news reporters. and $18 trillion in debt and although bernie sanders looks like somebody we ought to really consider at this point. host: that is bob in boca raton that. . by the way, bob, tomorrow on our 9:15 segment we talk about campaign finance reform with meredith mcgee a policy director and she will talk about the role of campaign finance chug a call from the democratic candidate hillary clinton for a containampaign finance constitutional

amendment. caller: i want to share and make a statement about the case in baltimore with the freddie gray case. i want to say that the police are sworn to serve and protect the citizens and kphaourpbts they work -- communities they work in. and this freddie gray case shows there continues to be a pervasive pattern of constitutional violation in high crime areas or african-american areas. because a young man makes eye contact with the police is not a crime. it is not a crime. and his constitutional rights were violated. i'm just a mom of two african-american sons and i'm greatly concerned when they go in and out and they are upstanding citizens. but the fact that a young man was injured, his neck broken and spine severed and 80% the

location under the custody of the police has to be addressed and we can no longer ignore that. also that points to this -- the police even with the bad apples among them they decide to rally up and protect. that is not right. the fraternal order of police already said when they get finished with this they will show that not one police officer is guilty. we have a dead man with a severed spine and broken neck that happened in their custody and if the police didn't do it who did? host: won't go to charms -- charles in texas, republican line. caller: i have been trying to get on but you are really busy. i think the majority of the blacks that are confronted by the police are bringing this on themselves. because i have heard all my life when a policeman tells you to do

something you better do it. and that is -- if they would do that that is all they have to do is put their happened down and if they are innocent they wouldn't have any problem. what gets me is like in chicago it is a black on black crime murder there mainly. sos it not -- you are not talking about just whites or having a problem. i watched bill cosby on a show a few minutes ago and he tells it just like it is. the problem begins at home and it is not the fault of the mother most of the time because she's trying to raise kids on her own and she has trouble guiding them. most of them's cornbread didn't

rise. host: millifromemillie. caller: first i would like to make a comment on crystal wright. although away enjoy her response she kept her head down. we were looking at her scalp more than her face. when your guested are on we feel like we have a small window of time. it is not an issue for somebody to keep their head up. i thought that was so rude. she talked about her father marching in the civil rights and the manners they were taught but i guess they were skipped over her because that is rude. moving on, we have sons and we taught our sons to do what the police officers tell you to do. you listen. however, the reality for black youth, black males, there is a problem with the police officers. they do search more blacks than

caucasians. and when they are young they are smart alecks they make little comments -- this is the kids -- and they grow out of it but there is a huge problem. and in our community there's a lot of training within our community with the police officers and it shows. we notice they walk the streets and talk to the youth more. they are in the community more. that is a big plus as far as i'm concerned. thank you. host: lisa, from texas, end line. -- independent line. caller: good morning. i have a couple of comments but i will get to the first one. until we, the people, realize that the dominant color is gray we are going to continue to have these problems. the voting rights act and any commentary related to that will not matter unless we actually get out and vote.

all politics are local and as you can see, i'm from texas, so whoever has the loudest voice and demonstrates that with the action of voting, that is where your power lies. we content continue to as african-americans, blame all of our ills on race even though it is an issue. opportunities come. my grand father had 14 children put over half of them through college before there were grants. so, we have to get in the habit of exercising our right to vote realizingeing where the real power lies not in being a democrat or republican but doing the things

that it takes to get legislation passed that benefits us all as americans americans. once we get the money out of our political systems because democrats are just as guilty as republicans in taking money from big oil and wall street, we are going to be destined for failure just as americans. host: let's hear from kathy from new york democratic line. stkpwhra caller: wall street -- host: we will go to earl. earl, are you on the air? caller: yes, sir. i appreciate -- can you hear me? host: go ahead. i will put earl on hold and

let's move on to fred in new hampshire. again, folks, if you wouldn't mind turn down your televisions as you are waiting to get on the air it keeps feedback from happening. fred from new hampshire democrat democrats democrats' line. caller: i would like to discuss the supreme court taking up the homosexual marriage issue. i don't believe that is even in their realm. first of all i think everyone would agree the major issues of cause of homosexuality is either a birth defect a psychological disadvantage in a home life upbringing, and also -- or a conscientious decision to become a homosexual for whatever psychological reasons. so if the supreme court is going to take up this issue i think that all they should be

limited to is make sure homosexuals have access to medical or psychological care to remedy their illness. i don't see where if a person is afflicted why they should be able to make demand like guaranty marriage, adoption -- gay marriage adoption and things like that. it doesn't seem to be in the realm of an illness. host: that is fred from new hampshire. by the way if you want to see the oral arguments that took place in the supreme court case go to c-span.org we have audio available of the arguments that were presented throughout that whole day and available to you as a publish service. that is at c-span.org. john schwartz has a story saying the united states is liable for some of the flooding that took place in catrinkatrina saying it was -- it was focused on a information project by the army

corps of engineers. it has been linked to devastating flood damage in the lower ninth ward neighborhood. it is referred to as the 76 phaoeupl canal with substantially expanded and eroded over the years as a ticking time bomb. she praised the corps of engineers saying they have been open transparent and helpful in educating the court to understand what happened. she was harshly critical of the department of justice stating it prime minister sued a litigation strategy of contesting each and every issue. a spokesman for the department of justice said we are reviewing the ruling. let's try earl from florida. are you there? caller: yes, i'm here. host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to tell you that i really appreciate your patience and you have been a gentleman on the air and the thing in baltimore they need to realize it is not an issue of

color but money. whoever has the money has the justice. and as far as the supreme court with the other that they are going through now, i believe in civil unions but marriage is a issue of the church and of god. thank you very much. thank you again for being such a gentleman and patient. host: we go to jim from minneapolis minneapolis. hi, jim. go ahead. caller: how are you doing. thanks for having me. i think on the social issues when it comes to young black men it is basically you have parenting factors not there and they are not there to help them through the crucial points in their lives. we put more money in the baltimore if you look at the fact thes and figureses than any

other school district in the country. the problem is parenting. you can't go an drop the kid off and expect the teachers to supplement that need. how you resolve that is i don't think the political people can do it. i don't think pouring money into it can do it. you have to go to the home and that is tough. you can't take the kid away from the single parent. maybe a tutoring program instead of relying totally on the teachers teachers. if it is not resolved it is going to continue and continue. let's face it. it is not a black white, these police officers bust their ass. when you are in trouble who do you call? let's face it. sure you have a few bad apples but for the most part 99% of

cops are there to help. it goes rate back to the home life -- right back to the home life. host: edward from germantown, tennessee, is next. hi, edward. caller: hi there. i would say about the paoepleople in baltimore that they have really shown that they are very resilient and they care about what they are doing. host: germantown, that was edward from germantown, tennessee. we go to john if ocala, florida democrats line. caller: yes, sir. [inaudible] many, many good. secondly democratic party 12

years trade. 20 years to eight. put the country in a positive position. whole nation of america being democratic party. when you get one party 20 years to eight, 12 years straight, mr. johnson said talking for civil rights giving the soul to republicans. the southern state has nothing to do in this country. [inaudible]. host: by the way we have three local content vehicles as they are known who travel the united states to cities in the united states to capture the hit repair an historical feel. topeka, kansas, is the focus of

this weekend. they were there an recorded interviews and materials for both c-span 2, book tv on the weekend and c-span 3 american history tv. you will hear many of those things over the weekend chug including an thaufrt of deborah goodrich who talks about the civil war in kansas and how the state was known as bloody kansas. >> it didn't earn that name by accident. when the kansas-nebraska act was signed the very act of signing it was viewed by missourians as an act of war. from the very beginning every colony, all those original colonies had assumed what was to the was of them was theirs. when northerners decided that popular sovereignty will decide the fate of kansas with respect going to accepted people to

settle that was viewed as an act of war by many missourians who assumed it would be theirs. there were raids back and across the kansas board immediate will you. the pottowamee massacre is one of the most fame events. in may of 1856 john brown and sons and other followers dragged five men from their cabins and they were shot and hacked to death with broad swords. that effectively cleared that area of southern settlers. what john brown had not accomplished however was to set the tone for what the kansas kansas-missouri border would become. host: brandon from florida, democrats line on open phones. go ahead.

caller: yes. host: you are on. go ahead. stkpwhra caller: i would say to the comment of the previous call are regarding basically being mentally ill or psychologically ill. i have several gay members in my family apdnd and it has nothing to do with it being something or needing medical care. it is basically from what i have seen from their relationships and their own partners and the way i have seen them carry themselves it is just a question of who they love and how they choose to love, not so much they choose to be ill or be homosexual. it is like waking up one day and deciding you are going to go burn down a house. that is an open decision not to make the decision not to care about something. that is a r.b.i.'s ridiculous argument.

the time we spend on that could be better spend developing better educational systems. but that has come back from defend wars and been to war and if your main concern is who is getting married and what is going on in somebody's bedroom you should turn on tv and see what is going on regarding police brutality and what not. the old story you can't lead a horse to water and can't fill a cup that is full. host: in the"new york times" there is a photo of hillary clinton and senator bernie sanders who claimed his interest in the presidency. that story is the democratic left pressure to take progressive stand. some of the story says

mrs. clinton tastes more intense pressure to confront income inequality and not beholden to the business policies preferred by contributors while' lining herself with the left on im immigration she's been less explicit on economic policy avoiding a position on a controversial trade pact with the pacific rim country but on a weightier matter is who will serve as her economic advisors on the campaign and should she win as president. many on the left wrb but are skeptical she will surround herself with vise source from the elizabeth warnren school. capitol heights, maryland. mansa is on the line. you are on. caller: good morning. i want everybody to know that it is irrelevant to listen to anything that they have to say.

what happened to those people in baltimore baltimore, we were talking about the u.s. government. they were doing a psychological weapons test in that area and they had deployed these devices rlad's from fort meade and encircled that area. those kids were targeted. that is why the mayor told the police to back up because they wanted to see how it worked. once they deployed them with the frequency device to cause people to get aggressive and everything like that and then the man told the police to back up to allow these people to express themselves they were testing these and what happened was they told the kid -- they sent them a

mass text telling them a purge was going to happen. so we the kid get out of school they took the school buses, the kids were stranded because they canceled the school buses and backed the police up and put these i.d.'s and sent the frequency on the kids. so you talk about the kids, they were -- a test was being run, a mass crowd control test was being run on the kids. host: the becamefront page of the "washington post" has a story saying that when it comes to those states that set up health insurance markets there are financial concerns saying many of the online exchanges are wrestling with summering costs for bulky technology and expensive commerce

expensive call numbers. they are considering raising fees an sharing costs and expressing for cash ininstitution. they are talking about turning them over to the federal exchange healthcare.org which works smoothly. that 167 exchanges and d. krfpltc. -- that is 17 exchanges and d.c. this is a call on the republican line. caller: good morning. i want to basically talk about my comments regarding iran. we really have to give every support to or administration here in order to see a comprehensive accord with that government by the end of june. because i believe it is the american way of doing it. it opens up tremendous gate for cultural and economic trade with that country and region. by the same token the hope is that this will in the long run

translate into reformation and reform policies of that government and democratic rights that the people in that country for 150 years have yearned to achieve. host: here is or program for tomorrow's washington journal. you may have seen the roundtable and heard references to the 1994 crime bill. we will have a guest to analyze that. she will talk about the major components and what has worked and what hasn't. that is nicole austin-hillary. from 8:30 to 9:15 we will be joined by charles simpson currently at the heritage foundation. we will talk about the status of prisoners at gitmo and push by the pentagon to move them out. then meredith mcgee will talk about campaign finance efforts. she's with the campaign legal center their policy director.

that starts at 7:00 tomorrow. we will see those segments and look at papers and take your calls. thanks for joining us today. we will see you tomorrow. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] >> coming up, an interview with the grand prize winners of c-span's studentcam competition. then, the teacher of the year at the white house. then women in combat. >> each year sinc two thousand six, c-span has invite

students to take part in our studentcam competition. it asks students to make a documentary on a certain theme. this year, the theme was "the three branches and you." we asked students to tell a story that demonstrates how policy, law or action affects them or their community. c-span received 2280 videos, representing the most participation in the competitions 11 year history. overall, 150 student prizes where awarded this year, totaling $100,000. the team of eight graders from lexington kentucky were named the grand prize winners for their video on