and things like that. there is so much. we have learned so much. right now the transportation is the typical problem. i think any ms. quarterman: can we talk geopolitical for one second? there was a lot of talk when the cranium crisis happened about potentially taking gas and liquefying it and sending it from exporting it throughout the u.s. there have been a lot of bills about crude and lng exports. is that really feasible or not? mr. gold: there is no reason technically you could not do that. you take began his chemical it down -- cool it down.

the issue that came up around the cranium crisis is one of timing. that was a crisis that was short-term. l and g had asked working gas is -- and exporting gas is longer. if that is the direction the u.s. policy once to go, there is no reason the u.s. could not be a large exporter of gas. the other hiccup with that thinking is the u.s. energy system isn't government controlled. the federal government may have had every reason to want to bring gas to ukraine at that point, but there is not a history of telling the gas stations where to direct their gas. we let the market do that. there are couple of changes that would be required to get to that point.

mr. chandra: when i think about some of the hurdles of oil now -- we are not the low cost producer. in shell gas, we are. we are at the low end of the spectrum. in oil, we can export. gas companies have adjusted their capacity to this lower gas prices world. the oil producers are about to undergo a very traumatic few years and adjustment. i feel pretty good about it. where i think the l and g game will change -- also a complete horse stork will shift -- a complete historical shift. i think we will see a blinking from crude.

it will be a far more competitive situation when you don't have an oil price link providing an umbrella for these projects. that is a shift we are likely to see. companies can't do this but countries can. they can definitely say we are not going to take that price. i think the u.s. is very well situated. >> a lot of the gas coming out of the middle east is produced at no cost. the american task show producers

still have a cost and principle even if we were to liquefy this natural gas, we might be competing against a market where people can continually undercut what it is we tend to want to sell overseas. this history of the canadians who are trying to liquefy natural gas. they will have to be competing against gas out of the middle east that can undercut canadian gas. ms. quarterman: we will open it to the floor for questions. thank you. please introduce yourself. >> ima reporter with snl energy. before i question come i first

want to share the story i was at the first conference in expert in 2008. i watched all of these people leak out of the room when they heard the number and get all their telephones. dr., we have three plays in appalachia stacked. do you have a number for how the total of all three of them? what the potential gas is there? mr. endgelder: i am like a better who live the jackpot once. having said that, let me remind you that the appellation basin is the most amazing place in the world because bottom to top, we have the marsalis, and the original gas play in the

appellation basin. i like to think in terms of this being a stack as six. you can let your imagination run wild in terms of what this will do. there have been very good --i think you were counting that as the third level. there are some people that are happy with the outcomes. let me remind you that when i was first called, we were looking at the five original range wells and the ip coming out of those wells went anywhere from 1.4. the high one was 4.7. at that point, 4 million cubic feet a day was judged as a great well. now, 4 million is a failure. i think each one of those layers have come up to that 2008

standard but today, we have the utica from a range that holds the record at a flow rate of 59 million. it is a big number. let me just say that i am content with 500 trillion cubic feet. this is technically recoverable. it has nothing to do with today's prices. recently the university of texas has run a study but they basically have stated we come up with the same number for the marsalis -- 500 trillion cubic feet of recoverable gas. i don't think we have to worry about running out of the stuff in the next 5-10 years. the stone age didn't come to an end because we ran out of stones.

>> a follow-up question. two years ago, the gas producers went and spent a year recovering at now they are producing more than ever. is there a chance the oil guys will end up doing the same thing or are they operating in a different market? mr. chandra: it is a different commodity. there shall production is pretty flat. impossible for an oil well. physically impossible. they did it through things like compression and maintenance and reefer axing -- they're not sure they can do it horizontally. when i think about oil wells

you -- the potential i don't think will work. the other aspect is in terms of capital, the gas producer physically took a dollar and said i will spend $.70 of it in oil but put another $.20 in gas and not tell you. what we are looking at now is that you don't have capital for gas producer and you don't have it for the gold producer. there is nowhere left to turn. it goes back to the original point -- what is the shape of the u.s. curve? second and third quarters will probably be troughs for u.s. supply. the fourth quarter, we will see. you see the decline rate mathematically defined.

it should take less money to maintain your volume. the biggest change is my ability to outspend my cash flow. that is a much bigger shift. if i cannot spend 150% of my cash flow, i cannot deliver the growth i have had. i think we will see a single digit growth weight within cash flows in 2016. you can describe that how you will. it is certainly a lot different than the experience of the last five years. a question here. >> make snow with oil and gas journal. i find it interesting no one has said much about transportation and you have a former director as her moderator. i happen to know because somebody in the federal railway administration told me i couple summers ago.

i wonder at any of you would be willing to address the implications of transportation as they affect u.s. access to global markets, particularly for crude oil. ms. quarterman: that was on my list but we were running out of time. mr. gold: crude by rail has been a subject near and dear to my heart. you just made the point that the new regulations have come out recently, requiring a whole new set of tanker cars empty phaseout of existing tanker cars over the next 5-7 years and the center dot and of these new types of breaks -- and this

production of these new types of brakes. the industry said it will fight that. i am not sure how that will impact export levels primarily because really what the rail is driving is it is feeding these closed refineries, refineries that have existed for a long time. i think from what i have seen and expect to happen i think this is a really important, open question. the bach in shelton north dakota went from something about 100,000 a day production to 1.2. a tenfold increase. we didn't build pipelines to accommodate that. we figured out you can put it on trade and cars and we are moving an incredible amount of volume

of crude. this is the modern equivalent of that and where putting on older tank cars, which grew in a show not to be up to snuff. we had a number of the romans involving both the older train cars and what the results are joined fireballs. the question has come up is we have had these accidents in places like castleton, north dakota. last week, another in north dakota. thank goodness, 27 people in the town. these train cars also going through chicago, philadelphia albany. the government is asking how do we make this safer if we are

going to be moving crude? i think it is an open question right now. you have an extraordinarily powerful entity involved. he will industries are enjoying -- the real industries. the oil industries don't want to lose 700,000 barrels a day production. there is an incredible regulatory clash going on right now in washington. let me tell you it is fun to watch and report on. ms. quarterman: it is so nice to have to hear you answer that question and not me. mr. chandra: they are going to commit to new pipelines. if the global model is correct that we are single digit rate growth overall, the pipeline will be more than enough to satisfy future production. some of the tier to rock out

there will not produce any more anyway so you will not have that explosive rates. it is the east coast refineries and the west coast. once they go west, they will have to move products the real. -- via rail. >> [inaudible] congress is going to shut you down. i'm not kidding. we have an awful lot of pissed off people. can you tell me what refrack means? mr. endgelder: one oil and gas are produced from gas shale, the show itself is in permeable.

what makes reduction possible are hydraulic fractures in the gas shell. it is impossible to fill the entire volume with a fractures at one time. a refrack is a second stimulation of the reservoir with the hope it will put fractures in new volumes of rock that were not accessible with the first fracture. >> [inaudible] mr. endgelder: the whale has to be temporarily shutdown well the rock is broken. >> pipeline oil and gas in dubai. the white house gave conditional approval for show to drill in the arctic. you emphasize on the lesson learned. how can be lesson learned be applied in the arctic?

mr. endgelder: is that for me? ms. quarterman: any of you. mr. endgelder: we have had tremendous experience in the arctic to begin with. anwar has the same geology as the geology to the west. i think may be the first lesson to learn here is that maintenance of the alaska pipeline is going to be incredibly important and the alaska pipeline is aging and british petroleum got into trouble because they didn't sufficiently maintained that pipeline. that won't happen in this new area of the arctic is open. i think we have learned a lot about managing fluids that are produced with the oil and that would be how does one dispose of them? that is a nontrivial problem in a distant place like alaska and

i don't know what the answer is but i can imagine these wells if this area is ever opened up one of the first questions the regulators will have is how are you going to manage the waste waters? i don't have an answer for that. there are a number of other issues, including, for example protecting the upper part of the wells with better casings and cement jobs. these are all lessons coming out of gas shales. i am sure there are others too but i'm not prepared to address those. ms. quarterman: thank you. right here. >> question one -- is it possible to convert the entire u.s. truck fleet and the road world system to be used in

compressed oil and gas instead of diesel? given how low the prices of gas are, it seems he can keep producing at these rates. once you do that, you make a huge difference in the entire demand for oil. is this a potential game changer ? the second question, you mentioned to problems. you said there is the problem of how to dispose of the wastewater. these are different kinds of problems. one is initial fracking and the other is the water blowback. i heard of a technique of people saying instead of initially injecting water, we can inject natural gas liquid. that will frack and come back.

we are recycling the same thing and again and again. is that feasible? mr. chandra: you have asked two or three questions. let me remind you there is an investor named t boone pickens. he attempted something called the pickens plan and you may recall the pickens plan was to build a lot of wind infrastructure and he put a lot of into west texas wind farms. what he was doing was hoping natural gas could be used not for manufacturing electricity but for compressed natural gas vehicles. it really is technically possible and in fact, and pennsylvania, one of the early hopes was there would be a series of compressed natural gas station built along the turnpike along 80 four just this

particular purpose. yes, it is technically possible. now let me address the second question, which was why don't you used compressed natural gas to fracture wells. i can think of two reasons why that is not very practical. one of which is i would not want to be around a drill rate one you are running very explosive materials at very high pressure down a well. that is incredibly dangerous. the beauty of using water is it doesn't blowup when it is under high pressure before it gets put down the well. the second reason is that the fracture stimulation itself is only as good as the transfer of energy from the surface to the rock itself and using natural gas, for example, to fracture wells, means you spend a lot of

energy compressing a compressible fluid that will expand on its own accord without transferring that energy into the rock itself so it is a much less efficient way of breaking the rock apart. in this business were every fracture matters, the more fracture you create, the better off you are. water allows this to happen because it is very incompressible. all of the energy blood and water is transferred to breaking the rock apart. mr. chandra: i would add two things. one is on the use of gas. it is happening in canada. it has had some success there but in the u.s., the study so far suggests that only is it not working but there is no intermediate the that it will work. i just don't remember the

technical issues but it could be the nature of the rock and the depth and we have a longer way to go to deliver that energy. i did study on cng and lng. what would really change things is the consumer adoption of cng vehicles. we had a lot of things like sanitation trucks that run on that. when i am refilling, i need to know i am coming back at the same time every time. when we look at that in the pickens plan etc., one of the things we need to do is retrofit the existing has stations with tanks. i forget because -- it doesn't sound like much -- but that would come from the government. i don't think anything is coming from the government for that sort of thing. really the main reason why is because the combustion engine.

it is just getting better and better and you don't need tax handouts and you don't have to pay $4000 extra for the same miles per gallon. competitively, it is falling behind. maybe the real test of it will be a battery engine but i just don't see the natural gas vehicle being a competitive threat in the future to gasoline. ms. quarterman: right here. >> david from the heritage foundation. thank you. it has been a very interesting panel. i wondered if you could go back to the cameron government, what one of their main place was to go after their shale gas and whether they can do it is a big issue. mr. gold: i don't know whether

it is the right kind of rock. there has been significant anti-frack\there. you're right that the cameron government has been very enthusiastic about this. they just got another five years. i would certainly keep an eye on that. they're going to run into the same problem of royals, which is how -- problem everywhere else. in order to accommodate the sentiment, how do you incentivize the local communities to open their doors to this? i have not seen any suggestion that they really get you there. i think it is a financial incentive game at this point. mr. endgelder: the major problem found in the basin from birmingham and manchester going east is that rock is heavily

faulted. it is a much more complex rock than the marsalis. this is one of the primary problems in china. the density of the fault networks is made clear because they had a couple of earthquakes that were set off by fracking. they had to deal with them. it is not entirely clear to me that this gas shell in england can be made economical profitable, given the complexity of the faulting in that area of england. ms. quarterman: thank you. right here. >> i would like to ask a question for the panel. it was a huge enthusiasm from the very beginning a few years

ago when we got the showcase coming from poland to rome nef. -- from poland to romania. is it a matter of conjunction of the market or could we influence and geopoliticsal issues? mr. endgelder: i will answer the first part. i have spent some time in a number of those countries. the gas shell we're talking about in poland runs from poland to ukraine. it is sourced in an organic graft aolyte.

if there is an analogy in america, it is the utica gas shale. the major issue is the quality of the rock and it doesn't really matter what the politics are or what the local people feel. if the quality of the rock is not there to make this work, the way it has with marine shales like the marsalis, the rest of it doesn't matter. ims sure there are some politics going on that make it tough. the rock quality itself is disappointing. mr. gold: i am not an expert on eastern europe politics. the political discussion comes secondary to the rock. if the rock is no good or if there has not been discovered a way to make it work, the rest is a moot point.

mr. endgelder: this is one of the amazing things about the anti-fracking revolution, which is without testing the gas shale to know whether it is worthwhile or not, it seems to me a little bit nearsighted for a government tuesday say no, we will not look at all. the french have a wonderful opportunity. the british ran into this problem where a company was going to drill a well, a vertical well to test the rock. they were just going to drill to see what was there. that got shut down. it is very difficult to know what is there and it's the first step. >> i think we have come to the

end of our session today. i want to thank our esteemed panelists who have come to talk to us today and for you folks being engaged and asking great questions. we hope to come back and talk sometime about liquefied natural gas as well as discussing some of the global offshore planned projects. thank you very much. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]

>> "the hill" giving the -- reporting the government giving the green light to drilling for oil and natural gas as soon as this summer. the interior department improved a plant -- a approved a plan today along with five conditions the environment. shell ran an oil rig aground on an island in alaska during a storm. the company will be allowed to drill six exploratory wells in an area 70 miles off the alaska coast. >> tonight on "the communicators" -- we met up with an author who says we are in a

new phase of human development and through robots another technology, we are likely to enhance the human condition. >> robots is an especially interesting one. 2014 was the year of robot angst. i don't know if a day when i that i didn't see some kind of story about how robots are stealing jobs from humans and we are all going to end up out of work. there are robots that are better bartenders and humans, better waitresses that humans, and so on. the thing i find that i think is missed a lot is that every revolution or advance in automation has resulted in better jobs for humans. we are really worried about robots taking our jobs and we have a hard time imagining what we are going to be doing not 200 years from now but even 10 years from now. i think history has shown we will figure out a way to combine

with the robots and create new jobs that were previously unimaginable. >> that's tonight on c-span two. >> we will be opening the phone lines again tomorrow talking with robert woodson of the center for neighborhood enterprise on poverty's affect our neighborhoods and ways to reduce it. and then a discussion on the controversy surrounding the multistate military training exercises scheduled to take place in california -- in states from california to texas. that's on "washington journal" live tomorrow morning starting at 7:00 eastern. both chambers of congress in session. the senate gavel and to consider the release of u.s. citizens in iran. a vote is scheduled for 5:30 eastern time.

debate on trade promotion expected throughout the rest of the week. you can follow the debate live on c-span2. later in the week members will consider bills, including one that bans abortion after 20 weeks and ending the nsa phone record collection program. you can watch the house, live right here on c-span. >> remarkable partnerships, iconic women, their stories in "first ladies" the book. >> she did save the portrait of washington which was one of the things that it deirdre to the entire nation. >> if we could find out where frances was staying, what she was wearing, who she was seeing that was going to help sell papers. >> she takes over the radio station and just start running it. how do you do that? >> she exerted in or missing influence. she would move a mountain to

make sure her husband was protected. >> "first ladies" looking inside the personal life of every first lady in american history based on original interviews from c-span's first ladies series. about their lives, families and unique partnerships with their presidential spouses. it is filled with lively stories of fascinating women who survived the scrutiny of the white house, sometimes at a great personal cost, often changing history. it's an illuminating and inspiring read now available as a hardcover or e-book through your favorite bookstore or online bookseller. >> earlier today, the brookings institution held a discussion about the role of sunni muslims in the future of iraq. two iraqi leaders, including a deputy prime minister and a governor and his -- of a

majority city province discussed their status in a post-saddam iraq. ken: good morning. welcome to the brookings institution. i am ken pollack. i am a senior to the center for middle east policy here at the brookings institution, and i'm absolutely delighted to bring this program to you this morning. all of you know in the last few months washington has seen two extremely distinguished visitors from iraq, prime minister al-badi was here in march, and just recently, in april, and just recently we had the president of the krg. as you all know there are many different communities in iraq. all of them in great tension at the moment. some of them virtue and more with one another. and as we all know at the heart of iraq's communal differences

like it's sunni community. we all now know that it was the alienation of the sunni community that began after the 2003 american invasion which drove the sunnis of iraq out of the political system and drove into opposition and help usher in iraq's civil war. we all know that it was 2008- 2008-2009 that with help from the united states the sunnis were brought back into the fold.

arrangement was forged in unraveling of that agreement and one of the critical questions facing iraq and one of the critical questions for the united states and every country in the world that cares about iraq that sees iraq us future as tied to its own interest is what the future of iraq will be. what kind of an iraq can bring its communities together again help them live in peace entry quality? when you speak to iraqis, what you often hear almost invariably when you talk about the course of the fighting so far and what it will take to bring peace to iraq, what you inevitably here is what will matter is what the

future government will look like. many sunnis feel they were badly betrayed. when they brought back into the political system it -- if iraq is going to be safe, secure, peaceful unified the real question is not how fast can we defeat it and how fast can we drive them out of the country the real question is whether there's a political solution to be had. a political solution that will allow the sunnis to feel they are full members of a rock bus political system and once again they have the political strength and economic benefits

commensurate with their demographic and they are not enemies of the state or objects of persecution but full partners in that government. when you talk to iraqis when you talk to iraqis you often hear, this is a paraphrasing of something i heard directly from one person in particular, i'm going to put a slight twist on it so it's not a direct quote. what you often hear is you're asking me to fight for the future of iraq. until you tell me what the future looks like, i can't tell you whether i'm willing to fight for it. for that reason i ask today to very important, very well known and very highly regarded leaders of the sunni community to come to washington to help us to understand the perspective of their community on these critical issues. i know that for many people in this room both of these figures are well known to you, but i also know that for some they're not particularly well acquainted with them so let me give them quick introduction.

to my far this right, do your farthest left is doctor rafe al-issawi. he was born in anbar in fallujah, trained as an orthopedic surgeon and rose to become the head of the fallujah hospital including most famously during the november 2004 battle for fallujah. he was elected to the council of representatives in 2005. in 2006 became minister of state for foreign affairs. in 2008 deputy prime minister of iraq, and 2010 finance minister. in 2012 and 13 rafe came under attack by the previous government. his bodyguards were arrested. he was the target of an assassination attempt and he was forced to resign from the government. he is the personification of the events that led to the alienation of the sunni community in 2012-13. to my immediate right, a rafe's left and your immediate left is governor atheel al-nujayfi.

governor al-nujayfi was born in mosul are just degrees in engineering and law i also found out looking over your bio that you are an engineer into iraqi air force during the iran-iraq war, just something i did not know. in 2009 governor al-nujayfi became the governor of ninewah province and at that time come excuse to come it was a tremendously important event in iraq and i can remember some of the early adventures when you first took over the governorship which i think were critical in broaching or breaching the differences between sunni and kurds in no one province. in addition, governor al-nujayfi is still the governor of ninewah and his brother was the speaker

of the iraqi council of representatives from 2010-2014. now, as again i think many in this audience already know, if there's one thing the previous government in iraq was successful at it was fragmenting the sunni community. there are many different voices in the sunni community these days, and there is no question -- being committed to that peace and stability of a future iraq and being committed to a u.s.-iraqi partnership moving toward. i can think of no to better voices to help us understand the situation in iraq and with its sunni community. we will begin with some prepared

remarks by both of them. dr. and then i will ask a series of questions and finally we will open things up to answer your questions. please joining me in welcoming dr. rafe and governor atheel. >> good unidentified speaker morning, everybody. he was my boss in the minister of health.

the only reason i've made my comments on powerpoint is to make it easy to talk to you about the situation in iraq. i agree with mr. ken in order to talk about five things to defeat extremism in iraq, to start building back, we have to describe exactly what's going on in the ground on iraq we are talking about a most damaged state in iraq. both on the isis side and the militia side. i put this map to give you an impression of what it looks like in iraq.

we have to know the exact causes that led to that situation. i would like for you to focus on the next video which is about one minute it divided the screen into two sides. one for the militia or other rights that is the flex of emotion and the website is daesh isis. many illegal militias in iraq. that went from isis is threatening also. this is the dealing of militias and with the sudanese on the

side, isis is dealing with the shiites and this is an identical criminal groups. the same thing is killing on the left side. i have killed on the left side, you can see this is the situation right now. how to end this tragedy in iraq. on the left side, killing one of them and on this site, the militia -- that is why i want to

focus on the short term and the real threat is isis. it is damaging to the country. on the long run, you cannot deal with a country filled with militia. the sunni arabs -- i'm afraid this may give you a not exact picture of the situation. let us go back to 2310 2000 four when the city divided into two groups. i and other colleagues of mine participate in 2005. [inaudible] all of them are in exile now.

so now sunnis are looking is this the end of people who participated? i'm talking about how other partners dealt with the sunnis. when they found it difficult to achieve their goals, they went to a demonstration and went to declare regions in order to get some sort of authority to decree the central government over them. in 2011, the militia entered the government building and for six

months, he was not capable -- so we moved in to the awakenings. this was 2006 and 2007. the leader of the tribes have been assassinated. after that, more than one year sunnis demonstrated and the government attacked them and killed people who demonstrated legally and peacefully.

when they come to recruiting sunni people for the local national guard and defeating isis until this moment the draft has not finalized that. after the control of isis in some of the big places, tribes want to fight them. keeping in mind we are talking about official legal recruitment. we don't need to see sunni armed groups so we are talking about the institutionalization. we are talking about almost

600,000 families. this is because of isis. this puts a real challenge to everyone. the wave of displacement so some of them become a dangerous situation. as a model, we are talking about 16 agencies. d.l. is a sunni dominated section -- tens of thousands of

people are arrested and with this government, about reconciliation so all of this environment -- are we part of iraq? if the answer's yes, we should be an inclusive government for all iraqis and even have to be accepted and security forces and find it even when you come to light against isis. if you fail to make partnership with those you are fighting. everyone knows very well in the western part of iraq, some good

signals from the governor of an bar that isis are there and they have to deal with them. the question is who left isis into the other cities. the central security forces failed to deal with the control of the provinces. iraqi security forces was not dealt on a model. many divisions have been defeated. at the beginning, that will

protect you. many people are sunni and people are killed by bombing or criminals and infrastructure including health, everything imparted in the city process. talking about the cleansing -- i highlighted this point. sectarian forces we are encouraging everyone to keep up the momentum who are ready to fight isis.

some of the militia present day similar set of crimes like isis. some of the militia bombarded houses and killed people. we were very frank with our colleagues sunnis can fight isis. this is -- otherwise you send your guys. it will be deviated from a civil

war. thousands of them are coming even without uniforms now. fighting isis is a dual pronged approach. the other side should be political. the government program this is my program to be implemented with all other partners.

all of these things are agreed upon with the government -- on the other side we talk about whole world is isis. and this point of all of these groups, you are fighting warlords inside themselves. the security process cannot give a guaranteed.

two days ago, they released some of the criminals that belong to the militia all of these sectarian crimes would prolong the life of isis because the justification they are detecting some groups. be militia on a short tail to fight isis is exactly like -- let us assume isis divided into

goals -- we have to fight isis legally. that includes all iraqis. all the resources should be focus on isis but we cannot focus on the other side because it keeps the situation and also to civil war. when i present this short idiot on the right side on the other side, it is the passport of egypt and jordan. that's why i say it's not only one threat in iraq. post-isis defeat, without the

security forces, you will find sunni warlords and shiite warlords and everyone carrying weapons now the militias are totally in control he center of government. people are coming back to restore the state of law and there will be much more tragedy. you have this trial of international compact and we talk about international fronts and it can help people political

reconciliation is needed iraq . constitution, i mentioned that when they declared a region on the provincial level, occupied by the militia. so sunni as know what's the solution? but participation is not pashtun fighting daesh not accept. where should we go? national guard, national guard is important. rebuilding iraq army, armed forces, second model of mosul, withdrawing iraqi army. the only way is to rebuild restructure the iraqi army on a

national background. and here mission not yet accomplished. after u.s. withdrawal from iraq is in fragile both security and political situation. by using politicized victim. and agreed upon government program is presented by mr. al-badi or by the way, i'm not talking about abadi himself that he was the head of the financial comedy when i was minister of finance. i think he is trying but trying is a very bad situation. need to stand united together to defeat the violate dictator governors.

undermined by militia and by isis. so now the vision, i think we need to adjust a new council. modify. when he created a model of awakening because the prison was huge. it's different but they are still there. a modification means creating a joint comity, local people local government or whom else to supervise the story of recruiting sunnis and arming them rapidly. army been without -- [inaudible] this joint comity would be about supplying endorsing the training.

americans would supervise everything. center government with it when not attending. local people who keep complaining that government didn't accept them and didn't armed them would also be in that company. they will be equipped, recruited officially begin by isis. now after this as i mentioned, i'm sorry, i don't mean to confuse you but i hope the answer can put you much more aware. we have the center government. local people, what to do.

on the political side, reconciliation, all of these things need to be implemented will stop restoring back balance and the security forces and other institutions, all of these are agreed upon. all agreed upon is the timetable and implementation. on the security side, talking about isis for their resources should be directed toward a unifying goal to defeat isis. we are a potential ally to the united states in fighting isis, but keep in mind you have to just mental and decommission the militia, otherwise you will see a week army and very strong leadership. restructuring the iraqi army, i

thought about how it was defeated in both. -- in moz all. at the end of the day, it's the local people and national guard. the compensation of displaced people is a big problem now. supporting the form and reconciliation, despite all the problems, we keep saying it should be political. insuring agreement is an

program. the idea is to dig deep to table and implementation. we are talking about 50,000 soldiers. only this point to be compensated by 50,000 good guys win restructure the army in a good way. we don't need to see that model. rebuilding the iraqi army i'm talking about the theater of law.

we don't need america to build its partnership with isis. the partnership and framework is different with iraq. there's a lot of debate about arming sunnis. isis is threatening everyone. sunnis in iraq are the greatest ally in fighting isis. proven to work, financing from

the american side using it now to fight against isis, the question why do the sunni fight against their own government. the central governments cannot be fighting with the committee against isis. this is the situation -- it can be restored back again. it is very possible but local

people and tribes, thank you. [applause] >> good morning, everybody. thank you for that introduction. you are not expert on iraq, but even more, you are a friend of iraq. you have my special thanks for that friendship.

thank you for organizing this forum. and i want to talk, i want to i want to take this opportunity to thank the people of the united states -- all american forces who support them, president obama administration, and the congress of the united states and the assistance to our common fight against isis. i welcome this chance to express my view on the iraqi situation. of many generations of fathers and mothers and in which city of most.

bozo is the largest second-largest city in iraq of nearly 2 million people now occupied by the illegal regime. iraq cannot be iraq without. it would be like the united states without chicago or san francisco. this would mean success or failure for the liberation of muzzle and the fight against isis. what comes after is crucial.

in addition to their importance are concrete steps. after 11 years of just talking about reconciliation the sunni and iraq, are no longer interested. the sunni to see actual and concrete steps. i will outline these points so we can have the discussion. i think it can be for all the areas.

first, the people of muzzle arche. the people must be shown why. history shows people are the reason. in a city of nearly 2 million people, or how well equipped, they can only do so much. we need the people of muzzle to help the soldiers. will the people rise up against them? i believe they will but we must give them a vision of what life

would be like in addition to the support, they need to be doing after me -- after. before i tell you what i believe, i want to tell you the plan and work that is going on right now for the liberation of muzzle. we have to training camps. in these camps are canadians come americans and turkish. there combat skills, they need to be in the fight for the liberation of muzzle -- four

mosul. who are organized with officers from the previous army who want to fight isis. the volunteers are ready to be part of the national guard's. the volunteers are ready to fight as soon as they get weapons. by now, we have thousands of fighters who have graduated from these camps and are ready to fight, but they don't have weapons.

they don't have the weapons they need for the fight with daesh. we are still working for the promises of weapons that had been made by our government in baghdad. promises are nice but it is the weapons our volunteers need, not the promises. they must be trusted by the people of most -- people of mosul. if these forces could be trusted by the community the people will be on the side of the liberation and daesh cannot make

a comeback. the liberation comes first, of course, but it's after the liberation that will be decisive. our people will be watching. so that people of muzzle -- people of mosul can survive. president obama pledged $200 million in aid. with this humanitarian aid, will it be on hand immediately or will it he tied up in baghdad's your accuracy? we know the liberation of muzzle

is not just a military fight. i organized a form in egypt. they are continuing their work against the ideology of daesh. i established a set of people inside mosul who would join the force if needed. i have working relations with most of the tribes in the area. i will see -- i will say also

these tribes need to trust the force. what ever we have done, we need to give the people a decision from what they had in the previous government with baghdad. this brings me to the second point. the people of muzzle want -- the people of mosul should elect their own representative from outside not by the extremist and not by any kind. i welcome international observers of this election.

this election must be free and without interference. you may ask what is our vision after liberation? this will bring me to my third and final point. we need autonomy. i want to be clear, i want to keep iraq in the fight and to always follow the constitution of iraq. the articles under our constitution are 119, 120, and

121. these articles explain how the provinces in iraq come to be. we just want to undertake what our constitution granted our people right to do. autonomy must be in two states. remember these words -- when you hear anybody for anything from -- i believe it should be but

not iraq itself. we need to have a balance in power and authorities in iraq which will have a double effect. and also protect minorities. i believe this autonomy will strengthen the unity of iraq. first, geographically. the geographic autonomy for nineveh province would have three effects of stop this would give the sunni community its own autonomy with its own special

constitution. this autonomy will protect minorities within nineveh progress -- nineveh province. perhaps interfering with the rights of nineveh province. we tried to follow up constitution steps but unfortunately, prime minister maliki drops this decision. the second stage i envision within other sumo -- other city provinces under the umbrella of iraqi cost to show -- iraqi

constitution. i want the people of mosul to be involved in the liberation of their city stop second, to have the chance to choose their own representatives, and third to get a chance to vote according to the iraqi constitution. if people choose, the future will be bright. thank you for listening. i look forward to our discussion. [applause]

ken: those are great presentations and he managed to cover my first four or five questions. that's a terrific thing. i want to spend the bulk of my time talking with you about what you were talking about at the end of your presentation about what this future iraqi political relationship might look like. but before i do this, i want to go back to a point -- and feel free to disagree with this, but i have the sense you will also very and is the impression most of washington got, which is that the problem is not the prime minister. the prime minister wants to do the right thing and that's the impression he left your washington that he very much knows where iraq needs to go and wants to do it.

the problem is not the what, the problem is the how. i would love to get your thoughts on how you believe the united states might help them to better help him achieve those goals. >> thank you very much. ladies and gentlemen talking about the person who inherited a very damaged political situation, he is a good guy, i agree with you. but until this moment, the problem of the government -- some of the stories like amnesty , nothing took place.

yes, i agree that we should rebuild the security forces. it means iraq would be controlled by militias on one side and isis on the other side. whether arming sunnis would divide in iraq, is iraq united now? we want to restore united iraq. helping him in dismantling militias, bringing back the state law, supporting them in the process of arming the iraqi army's because the government

keeps saying what if we push the weapons to the sunni fighters. you see -- this is not a justification. you cannot keep putting a question mark on everything. dismantling militias, putting all the resources into fighting isis and presenting a draft of the national guard because we agreed on local forces in nineveh. south also has its own national guard. these are the main topics america can help.

the price of oil collapsed and it's difficult -- >> i believe iraq will not be united -- what we need is to strengthen the sunni group so they can fight isis and return to balance the iraqi forces. the u.s. can do that. ken: let me follow that up with a specific question. the process of reconciliation with something you both talked about -- again, it's clear any

iraqi understands this is critical. does the u.s. have a role to play in fostering that process of reconciliation? we see the prime minister talking about the process of reconciliation but we don't see it happening. is it happening behind the scenes? should the u.s. be doing more? >> is initially when some of the shia groups -- they want the reconciliation to keep their authority and power in their hand. there cannot be a reconciliation like that. if we are talking a real reconciliation, we need to give them the freedom to choose their representativesi am talking about

elections. we need elections which get all the -- come on the sunni must be involved in that election. so we would have the sunni community inside the political process. >> do not you were if there were elections in iraq this time that the shia militias would capture a huge number of the -- isn't that a huge problem? >> it will happen in the provinces. we can also use or change the law that gets in each part, with a big list, we can get the representative from each portion in iraq.

>> it means the militia will draw all the political situation in iraq. provinces, because that is what i am talking about the dismantling of the -- partnership of sunni reconciliation looks like, everyone is -- that is make an assessment of that story. for the second premiership on top of that was reconciliation including the bath vacation. the former minister of finance

i always remember about after -- so the story is to implement the argument. that is why you come to the draft you have come the program of the government. it is such an excellent one. presented by mr. a body to the parliament. it is the timing. it is about dismissing people, talking about reconciliation, security forces should be totally iraqi national. the question is it is in limited, the answer is no. >> as always come in iraq, that is the issue. >> to answer one who is looking as a solution.

-- come to extinguished -- >> thank you. i want to leave time for questions for the audience as well. now we come to this great issue that is looming ahead of us. it is not the immediate issue. issue we have in front of us is the expulsion of and whether it is going to be -- but there is this issue behind us, which is critical, the nature of the future iraqi state come in the future iraqi state in which all of its communities can feel comfortable. we invited you here because we were hoping that you could as well as anyone give us a sense of how the sunni community is thinking about exactly that set of problems, and i recognize i cannot ask you to speak for 6 million or 7 million sunnis, but

ask to do this, because i cannot fit them all in this room, and nor would they get all visas if we invited them. i will ask you, and i will start as you governor, because you covered in such wonderful detail in your remarks. how fast you get a sense of what you think that future iraqi state will look like. you spoke today. you have spoken in the past about the importance of decentralization of authority, but nevertheless within a strong federal system. that sounds exactly like the devil is in the details. help us understand the details. what kinds of powers are you thinking about that should be devolved from the federal government, the central government, to the region? how would that work? i'll ask you to do the same after the governor.

please start us off. >> maybe we can get -- i think the political life, there is no problems even between the ex-enemies. now they become all of us. and they can solve their problems inside their autonomy. but maybe there is another think dividing the authorities inside a province like anbar, i will not say sunni region, but maybe it will happen in the anbar after that, after negotiation with them, but anyway, i think we can solve our problems. we can get our security. we can get our suitable political life inside that province.

it would be the final negotiation. it would be that there is not any event or in a problems happened from this province to baghdad, but they can create their reconciliation between their people easily. maybe there are some problems with some parties over the shia with those in mosul. it is more easy to solve the province and we can get i believe that iraq will stay in their problems until it becomes a country which will get its autonomy, the raids to arrange -- the rights to arrange their

problems in side the province. >> several follow-ups, but to you first. >> the dilemma presented is that participation -- demonstration trumps calling for a region occupation divination. all of this confidence building needs not promises to go into a plan and details of how to restore sunni, but no one can trust the others. all of these things on the constitutional legal grounds.

so this is one good section on the authorities and what it would look like. in fact, everyone is talking about implementing the constitution. there is a central figure of government authority. there is regional authorities and there is a shared or mix of authorities between the two. respecting the constitution is a >> i'll ask the first follow-up to start with you. i'll start with your views as well. as you are painfully in personally aware, one of the problems with the current and federal the current federal system is that we have had a corruption of the justice process and key sunni leaders, present company included, have been targeted by the federal government using that judicial system. how would you think about a future iraqi system that would prevent that from happening? how do we go about creating an iraq in which you and others

can't be personally targeted by the system? >> it depents on all iraqis, whether to select, to live together, to respect the authorities coming out for sure there is an appearance in the issues. america and everything is damaged, so you have to restructure -- the damage -- the point. so it means you have to build again. on the corruption side, which is in the security of the institutions, the militia took money. that is why i said the challenge to restart again depends upon to

rebuild iraq and everyone keep only observing over you may keep meeting or giving promises about -- without implementation. >> governor, anything on the judicial system? >> all the province may be solved easier if we are near the people, not far away from the people. not starting everything from baghdad, they have no concern with what happened in mosul or with anbar, what the people of anbar want. they want from mosul and anbar to belong to them, not to follow the problems were the corruption in the city.

that is what happened in mosul before the corruption was too much. they didn't care with that corruption. they cared that the people must belong to them. so i think dividing the authorities, as i said, and we can see the dividing if there is a problem between some of the kurdish leaders and baghdad. there is not real problems between they can solve, but the problem inside. >> thank you. governor, i want to shift to another specific aspect of future iraq that in particular raised.

that is helpful because it's one we can really get our hands around and understand. but that's also a very big statement and i want to ask you about a couple specific aspects starting with the military and security side. do you believe as you've kind of implied that what the iraqi, sunni arabs are looking for in iraq is a situation where the military and security forces of the sunni provinces, of the sunni regions are separate from the iraqi central army, and under that vision, do you think it would be able to have army unit in the sunni province of it they have to be split just as the krg has its peshmerga, and the patchwork of were responsible for security responses and the army of the central government is more or

krg?maybe -- less out of the krg? >> maybe i will have a difference between two securities. the security for the provinces must be managed inside the province. >> there is no need to interfere with the local security in the province.

2008 some of the talking about the 32 of the governor's call for the forces if there is a real threat of the security situation. if it is could come it is if the local police, and to send the army is accepted as part of a unified iraq. also the constitution, localized or how to do it, and the law is implemented now. it is the governor who is authorized to can send them if they need. >> let me get down to another level of detail. as we say here where the rubber meets the road, money. do you believe that sunni arabs would envision in this future iraqi system one where the sunni

provinces or individual regions would have their own budget separate from the federal budget or would they remain part of it? going back to the krg model with a separate budget that simply has a revenue-sharing arrangement with baghdad? >> i think the constitution explains that very well. we need to get our budget according to the population of the province and all of the autonomy so we can follow the constitution. >> governor, having been governor, are there specific items that right now are handled by the federal government that you think would be better handled by the provinces, by the regions, again thinking about a future iraq in which the sunnis felt more comfortable?

>> an example of the last year, ninevah, according to the constitution, it must get 11% of the iraqi budget. surely we don't get more than 1%. and that is i think one of the bigger problems that we get in the province. >> also related to the constitution. being a former minister of finance, part of the budget -- [inaudible] what in the constitution --although it is called regional development budget now, that is called a regional development budget, which is an investment budget.

part of the investment they've put it in the major planning -- to the province. the budget is according to now as part the central unified budget. if it is a region, which is different from the province. >> to follow up with that, your expectation is you would move to be there a single sunni region or to multiple regions? >> almost all sooner you start talking about regions going geographic. >> so four different regions. >> so anbar and mosul.

but unfortunately they didn't. >> let me ask you i'm her question and then i will open it up to the audience. i want to ask you what i think is a hard question but maybe you'll disagree. one of the obvious differences between the krg and the sunni provinces is oil. the krg has oil and it is difficult, it is very difficult, but it's conceivable and we've seen it happen for bag bad to have a negotiation with the krg over which way the revenue flows, which way the oil flows. as all of you know, there is not a lot at this moment of oil in the sunni-dominated provinces of iraq. how do you go to the shia- dominated provinces of iraq and say to them, we want you to continue to give this our share of the total budgets, but we are going to be more independent

we are going to be less reliant? i understand your arguments, but i'm now asking a practical political question. you know what the reaction is going to be on the other side. how are you going to convince them that this is worth doing for them? would you like to start? >> also, the constitution. the constitution gives the right to his own region. so on a probation level is the constitution. so it includes the right to change the region. so we change into a religious constitution. the constitution is talking about the wealth of iraqis. so kurdistan belongs to all

iraqis. not to say we are looking for independent -- sticking to our own oil. oil and anbar and all the investment. distribution of wealth is constitutional. it should be distributed according to population number not regional or province. whether it be in a province or a region, and from that point is the constitution. the idea is to respect the constitution. which now is for more than one partner. >> i think the same problem in the shia provinces, not only with the sunni.

basra wants to be a region. they think that they must get more benefit -- >> is that their oil? >> on the other side our provinces, we have another benefit, which makes this united. so i believe if we invest in our benefits, they know that there's a lot of benefits to be inside iraq. even if they have oil revenue. it is not enough to protect themselves, to have the security, to have a good relation. so it has multiple benefits that

we need each other. >> ok. i would like to take some questions from the audience. time is short so i will take about six questions and we will put all of them to our speakers and give them the opportunity to respond collectively to all of them or whichever one they would like to speak to. i will go around the room this way. i start with the lady over there. please keep your questions brief and please keep them to questions. and if you could introduce yourself -- identify yourself to speakers. >> thank you, both. kelley kelley jones, refugee officer with security. there's a lot of discussion of dismantling militias and both of you spoke about problems with

militias and if they were a vote, people would be voting militias in and the ways in which the militias are currently connected to the government and could you address how to address these problems and trying to dismantle militias in the future. tried to keep it brief. >> we will go back there. >> good morning. jason campbell with the rand corporation in washington. going back to the first question about prime minister abadi who is advocating for your support rather than focusing on what the u.s. can do, given the political forces currently in baghdad seem to be successfullly good at holding their implementation what will be the catalyst to see more support with the programs implemented in the future? >> i will take one in the back. >> i want to know the situation

yasidi and the christian in iraq. mr. al-issawi mentioned a little bit about. i would like to know if they are going to be safe and secure in the future or we are gone from the region. thank you. >> right in front of me, marshall. >> i'm a resident at the atlantic council. my question is talking about militias of the group, but a big part of it is not pro-iranian and also has a very nationalistic program. is there a way to cooperate with these groups and use them maybe to bypass the pro-iranian >> recently prime minister

abadi apointed the ninvevah command. what are your thoughts on that in the next steps to include the sunnis in the security forces? >> one more right here in front, waiting very patiently. >> thank you very much. i am with the pakistani-american -- first of all, i would say the high level of turmoils i felt it i'm listening to the story of two survivors.

one of your main concerns has been the credibility gap and basically you're asking -- i wanted to ask you, is the face of iraq become more secular in nature of the democracy or is it more secular in nature before democracy? part 2 is what do you think the timeframe -- when do you anticipate when iraq and the people of iraq will start with the democracy? >> excellent questions. please feel free to address any or all. >> when i keep talking about dismantling militia, the constitution and talking about integration of militia and the regime. so that model is a new creative militia would be very clear to the problem. that is when talking about dismantling. it is to offer recruitment and on a personal background. so there is hundreds or

thousands headed by a leader to intervene because we keep obeying the orders. opening recruitment for tens of thousands of militia persons. the same thing is true for the sunni and to fight outside the constintutions and the rule of law. so this is dismantling and accepting the local or personal labor. for the program of mr. abadi yes, he is working and he is trying to make a change and we are committed to help him. keep promising without implementation we will come again -- as a country. i don't need to come again. i hope the final picture presented