. outdated formulas means that existing dollars disproportionally owed to students. this is a policy that lawmakers can and should address. likewise, it could be strengthened by strategically investing in transitional programs and expanding veterans upward bound. these suggestions are modern -- modest and they are important and achievable. it helps students dig through the early stages of an undergraduate education. these corridor efforts are tremendous effort to underserved populations and begin to adjust the civil rights of unequal access and an equals of war. and the entire american public shares in the benefit of better access and student success. a stronger global economic position in a stronger society.

we are all in this together. or me, it is professional, but it is also intensely personal. i am many others are first-generation. i high school did not encourage me to consider college. i tended a california community college -- i attended calvary community colleges and -- california community colleges and universities. i'm proud of public education. part of my support came from the federal government. thank you very much. >> thank you.

i'm not -- he had to attend to his wife this morning due to a family illness. i'm happy to be here today. the university system of maryland consists of 12 is a three research universities. for traditional apprehensive. 2 regional centers. one virtual university. we are a microcosm of higher education across the united states. in that vein, we experience and have a lot of takes on programs i'm going to speak about. i will awful thoughts on programs and their ending.

we begin by thanking the commission for holding these hearings. it is very timely. the counselor has repeatedly said that it is a national disgrace that students and families coming from the lowest income graduate 9-10% chance of graduating college where students from the upper income quarter graduated 5-90%. there are many complex reasons why more low income students don't complete a college degree obviously the volume of financial aid dollars and that efficacy of these programs make these dollars available is critical to expanding success rates for these students. there are roughly 7000 institutions of higher dictation that participate in the federal health grant and/or federal student loan programs.

many also participate in one or more of federal work study and loan programs. i will first be to these programs and then turn my attention to other programs. let me start by noting that there are very positive impacts for these programs. i know that there are proponents of one loan and when grant to make the process more streamlined. that may sound great in theory. people on the frontline who deal with students, this doesn't hold true in fact this. the benefit is that they are just that. they are campus-based. their student waste should institutions know their students and have looks ability of the program requirements. because of that, the relatively small dollars invested in these

programs have a tremendously high returns relative to regulation rates for underrepresented students. these programs level the education playing field for under resourced students at her off in a deciding factor about a student conceding his or her degree. they are woefully underfunded. many students are able to take advantage. i will cite an example. towson university -- the annual cost of attendance for in-state student come including housing room and board $24,000. here's how towson student aid breaks down from the most recent funding levels. telegrams are the largest for underrepresented low-income students. reaching nearly over 5000.

institutional need-based grants directly from towson met that is $16 million impacting over 4000 students. state grants -- $500,000. work study. you could see the difference. just looked at the example. consider how many more low income underrepresented minority students could be reached with additional funding and or improved formula for more equitable distribution of these funds? the formula on some of these what is the cost of attendance? what is a family expected contribution? a very high cost institution and

a very low -- where do you think the money will go? it makes sense in very. -- theory. it doesn't serve the vast majority of students well. there often funds returned but not a lot to be recycled to other institutions. the proposed formulas would place greater emphasis on the neediness of each school population. i want to make one point very clear how we are all for making spending every dollar is officially as possible putting the money where it could do the

most good for students. given the small contribution of the federal work study and the impact of any change for the efforts for the programs to be minimal, to increase the impact, there needs to be substantial increased funds for these programs. as you know, congress has appropriated perkins funding -- schools have been collecting every lending runs from the old federal contribution and old institutional -- at this point i want to quickly turn to the trio programs. they have been a wonderful success. we have participated in programs. they have tremendous graduation rates. it is clear it has been a vital part in advancing the access and

success of low income first-generation students. the trio program could also receive cuts in recent years. say they are flat funded. it is not keeping up with inflation. that may close by saying that we need to do more, much more to support higher education access for minorities and first-generation college students. because of low completion rates for low-income students, the claim that america is a land of opportunity being an upwardly mobile society is ringing hollow. it becomes a nightmare. thank you for taking on this very crucial issue for the future of our country. i'm happy to answer any ashton's. >> good morning. thank you for the opportunity to testify today.

on the director financial it at the university of virginia. there was a goal of creating an educated citizen to advance the ideas of democracy. today the university is comprised of 11 schools. 70% of our undergraduate students are virginia residents. we would like to share part of our universe's approach to access assistance and graduation . the university reviews the students academic credentials and extracurricular involvement to select the strongest candidates for our student audie. the ability to pay for school is not a criteria that is considered important foreign mission. uva president challenge student

services to develop a program to change the economic diversity of the university. our office suggested meeting 100% of demonstrated initial need and the university's board of visitors approved in 2004. the practice of meeting needs for all students in stay and out of state began with entering class owned the fall of 24 gain -- 2004. and a commitment to meeting 100% of needs for all students did if a student is admitted to the university, financial not be an issue to those with financial need. in order to meet large percent of demonstrated financial need, the university reviews the students eligibility for financial need beginning with federal, state and institutions. federal sources made 42% of the need and state sources at 11%.

the university -- federal sources have brought a 30 -- a percentage. campus funds have dropped of meeting financial need. access uva has helped increase the need for students force financial -- for financial need. to demonstrate further commitment for need these grants, the university rescreen acted affordable excellence program and set a goal of $1 million for endowed scholarships. once reach come it would generate about $59 each year or

scholarships and would help offset the shortfall from decrease commitments to federal and state sources. some concerns arose. there is information in the media about increasing costs of tuition, misunderstanding about the availability of financial aid, and fears of college loan debt. many low income first-generation college and underrepresented students are not receiving the advice and support they need to identify and enroll in colleges where they will persist to -- with lasting sequences for the students in the nation. so we score in the highest score percentile never go to college. it is a serious barrier for the

students. many are the first in the family to consider college you'd the national ratio means that the average student spends about 20 minutes per your talking to a counselor. according to the department of education, it requires post secondary education. to assist, the university began advising in the fall of 2005. it places a recent university graduate in a high school for two years to support the work of a high school counselor and helping all students and not just those interested in the university of virginia. advising corps members are supported financially by the university come other sponsors and by the americorps program. 17 advisors serve in 19 art and are high schools. the program became the model of the national colleagues advising

board, which is not present in 14 states and 423 high schools -- now present in 14 states and 423 high schools. advisors use a mentor model. high school students could is the to someone who is not much older than them and may have come from a similar background. college advisors help students identify and apply to post secondary programs that will serve them well academically and socially this increasing the likelihood that the students will earn their degrees. based on independent evaluation when looking at high school served by a college advisor compared to seniors at noncollege advising schools students are divided buys her's are 23% more likely to apply to college, 23% more likely to have heard of a pell grant 18% more likely to submit their fafsa 70% more likely to attend a financial aid workshop -- 17

percent more likely to 10 a financial aid workshop. 2 of many initiatives virginia has utilized increase access to higher education. after we meet their demonstrated financial need, we have efforts regarding persistence. >> thank you. >> my approach would be the following -- if and when the funding is in place, let's look at the peace of mind students have to accomplish. i begin with the pivotal russian -- question -- most university have support services for entry and retention and graduation. these programs include peer support programs, academic

advising, regulation audits, among others. what is different at the university of virginia that enables these students in these rogue ramps to yield -- programs to yield outcomes? there is a clear strategic position. two, the strategic position must pass strategic consistency with the expectations of the university. our programs work and are synchronized around leadership i didn't become an academic performance -- identity, and academic performance.

there has to be a strategic position that guides the students. high graduation rates must a line with -- align with grade-point averages. translation -- yesterday's figure came in at 86%. what we want to do is create an alignment between that and the grade-point averages of which they graduate. there must be a strategic consistency reaching the investment in the program that

implements goals of leadership. frustration -- the investment -- investor generally expects students to graduate with an eight semesters. they must use this expectation to guide the strategic implementation. in addition, students are generally expected to contribute to the life of the investor. strategic decision must proceed with effectiveness of the programs. programs must synchronize and design efforts to make that expectation happen. the point here is graduation rates look good for the university but they don't put food on the table. rate point averages do. -- grade point average is stupid

that is why the alignment is so important -- grade-point averages do. that is why the alignment is so important. at the end of the day, you won't ask students to become the leaders of the university. it matters that an african-american student knows why he or she is a teacher of that subject. student academic performance must allow students to compete for greater access when they graduate. when you put all these together, you will have a set number of programs. retention programs follow.

and a cultural center. and a sense of identity and difference. lastly many courses like economic calculus, our preparation for students into the work place. if and when you have done this well, what you will discover is that the graduation rates will continue to stay high and

students with 3.0-4.0 -- let's go to the next one. go all the way to the end. there you go. i gave you 10 data point. in 2006, students graduated in that cohort with 3.4-4.0 range. today it is in the 3.0-3.9 range.

put them all together. today it is more than doubled the gpa. focus, focus, focus. strategic. keep it in line. all the programs will follow. thank you. >> i want to start by saying thank you for the opportunity to test for you today -- testified for you today. i work at how state university fullerton. the testimony aims to support and augment early testimony the impact of financial aid program and occasional -- financial aid

program specifically did the lens of cal state fullerton. -- through the lens of cal state fullerton p access without the ability to compete is not true access. a meaningful expectation -- education means not just getting your foot in the door, but being empowered all the way through to graduation. enrolling in college is a critical step for low income minority, and first-generation students. this is the first up in a long educational journey. once which of these students face barriers another students. and how state fullerton, we have an intimate understanding of the barriers. we have a proven record of giving them not just access, a collegiate experience with the possibility of later success. as one of the larger campuses in the largest at university system in the nation, cal state fullerton is a model for inclusion, harley serving a

diverse and embody. weird a designated -- we are a designated hispanic and pacific islander serving institution. 42% of our undergraduates program recipients. 57% are first-generation parent accounting bulletin, we recognize that access alone is not enough. we are also a national model for student success. furthermore, our student students graduate with less debt than the average of the university roger and earn higher salaries over time. the systolic achievements are a foundation for even further growth. -- these achievements are a foundation for even further growth.

guide our institution towards the goal of becoming a national model for how it public apprehensive university can boost graduation rates through efforts to keep students connected to their education and empowered on their way to a degree. i have detailed many of the activities in written testimony. i want to highlight several initiatives that might eat of interest -- be of interest to the commission today. two gear up grants student services and -- there are two gear krantz that serves to 210 local high schools with the highest needs. these precollege programs have a profound impact on the student participant and assessment results speak to these program success with over 90% of

participants enrolling in college after they finish high school. young establishing a strong pipeline, cal state fullerton offers programs bolster student success and educational quality for first-generation students. our student support services program increases cause retention and graduation rates through academic advising, tutoring, financial aid advising, and other program services. students come from first-generation, low income, or disabled families. the participants achieve a graduation rate that is higher than the institutional average. in addition, we also run a mcnair's scholarship program. nationally, only 11% of doctoral degree recipients of 2013 from historically underrepresented backgrounds.

programs like the mcnair's scholars work to expand highly trained intellectual leaders like reading a pipeline for greater diversity and doctoral recipients. foster greater access in the community will create a campus ecosystem conducive to free -- retaining federation rates. -- graduation rates. we are achieving great things. without continued and expanded federal support, these initiatives are unsustainable. current limitations in federal funding disproportionately affect students that the like most heavily on programs and grants on the federal government. these are adding additional obstacles for students on the property to transformative learning. we are keenly aware that these limitations could be easily remedied we believe every turn to year-round telegraph or gums would serve as a powerful driver

for students to finish their college degrees in a timely manner. my present often speaks about higher education being a private good and public. iwatch 6000 family members and friends over the achievement of a college degree. when they contributed to the community, they are achieving that higher education. it is our moral imperative to protect programs that result in equitable outcomes not just equitable enrollment. this is one of the key civil rights issues of our time. commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you.

dr. hamilton? >> thank you, commissioners for the opportunity to present before this commission. i'm an associate professor of economics at the university of new york. my assigned task was to examine the possible civil rights impact on social mobility. as such, my comments will focus on the racial wealth gap and the role or lack of roles higher education provides economic mobility. wealth is the paramount indicator of economic well-being. wealth provides security and shields against financial loss. it provides people with the initial capital to purchase and appreciating asset which in turn generates more wealth from one generation to the next. wealth is the economic indicator which blacks and whites and other ethnic groups have persistently be most disparate.

following the great recession census data revealed the typical black and latino family owned a little more than a nickel respectively for every dollar of wealth held by a median white family. the typical black family has a little over $7,000 in wealth, while the typical white family had $112,000 in wealth. research in public policy has focused on highridge occasion as the driver of upward mobility. education alone does little to explain differences across race. it is more likely the case that wealth differences across race explain educational attainment differences. nonetheless, the conventional wisdom is to address racial disparity blacks need to simply get over it, stop playing the victim role, stop making

excuses, and take personal responsibility. it is is if the passage of the civil rights legislation conventional explanations for racial disparity have evolved from biological to cultural determinants. the implication of this rhetorical shift is the public sentiment away from public responsibility for the conditions of black americans and other ethnic and racial groups. although affirmative-action is designated as a positive antidiscrimination policy aimed at desegregating institutions, including elite universities, a common perspective is affirmative-action amounts to reverse discrimination, where unqualified blacks take the admission slots for qualified whites. his underscores white entitlements for social position and assumes that whites generally are qualified while be default, blacks generally are not qualified. it ignores the historical

advantage that whites continue to hold the by admission preferences for legacies and other channels that serve as examples of hidden forms of affirmative action for privileged groups. it also ignores the well-documented evidence from experimental psychologists involving the phenomenon of stereotype threats stereotype proof coming stereotype lift. they demonstrate that outcomes like the sat underestimate the achievements of college readiness, while testtakers are stereotyped, exaggerating the scores of india were jewels -- of individuals deemed as cognitively superior. the conventional was the ms. that -- the conventional wisdom is that if only black youth were focused on education they can get a good job and proceed towards economic security.

yet at every level the black unemployment rate is twice as high as the white rate. since high school dropouts have lower unemployment rates than blacks who have completed some college or earn an associates degree. a recent report by john jones and janel smith indicates that unemployment rates for black graduates exceeds 12% and is a high as 10% for black recent graduates with a step major. it is associated with wealth within race, but does little to address the root race gap. the typical black family has only about $23,000 of wealth. a typical white family has close to eight times that amount, with $180,000 of wealth. this amounts to a difference of about $160,000 between similarly educated households. furthermore and perhaps more alarming, black families whose

kids have graduated from college have only 2/10 the wealth of white families whose kids dropped out of high school. whitehead of households where the head is unemployed have nearly twice the amount of wealth over the lack ahead of -- over black head of households. education is not the anecdote for the enormous gaps in racial unemployment. none of this diminishes the intrinsic value of education. there is clear intrinsic value, along with a public responsibility to expose everyone to a high-quality education. what is concerning is the overemphasis on education as the panacea to address social barriers and racial inclusion. the racial wealth gap cannot be explained by higher education. it's explained by inheritance and transfers that accounts for

more of the racial wealth gap then more demographic or social indicators. these intrafamily transfers provide young adults the capital to generate assets like a home, a new business, or debt free college education that will appreciate over a lifetime. access to this nonmerit based seed capital is not based on action or inaction by the individual but rather the familial position in which they are born. and so much as we are interested in addressing the american progress -- promise of economic mobility at equal opportunity for all, we need to address intergenerational resource transfer in recognize the limitations and recognizing the value of education. one route would be to child trust accounts, which i'm happy

to talk about more in the q&a, but i think my time is up. >> thank you. commissioner, you want to open with questions? >> that was a very sobering analysis. and to put into perspective the fact that nothing is a panacea. but i also appreciate your recognition that this is a significant issue, and one that does address at least partially the aspiration for upward mobility and improvement in one's socioeconomic status within generations and beyond. i would like to ask chancellor white to comment on the

strategies that have been utilized in the california state university to address the challenges with respect to persistence and degree attainment and, if you would talk about the way those strategies may have differed -- may differ from the strategies discussed by dr. miller and dr. after he]]\frey, given the differences between the comprehensive university and the flagship university, as well as any other important differences to take into account. chancellor white: thank you

commissioner. for the next three and half hours, i will be happy to answer questions. i think to step above the specific program, what really i think is at stake is for students who come from the disparate sectors and fabrics of society is, how do we make them be prepared, feel welcomed, and challenged, and supported, all at the same time? the various programs, such as the summer bridge program or the early start program must take the -- let's take the san bernardino campus with a disproportionate number of poor kids. this upcoming summer, president or alice as a requirement -- president morales has a requirement that all in resident students must be in residence for two weeks. the idea being during those two

weeks, the students who may come feeling they cannot succeed will end up leaving feeling they will succeed. they know where the library is, the laboratories are, they know how to interact with students they are active and engaged. i think before getting into specific programs, i want to say the idea is sort of a velcro idea. the students who come from first generations do not have a family member to say, hey, how do i go about being successful on campus or how do i recover myself on the essay. we have to provide that support while holding a very high expectation for cheeseman. these programs that take at scale but individualized those kind of experiences in the weeks and months and years before they get to the university, because once they are there, you also have early in first and second year students the fact they get

into a small learning community by whatever design -- either pyramid touring -- either pyramid touring -- peer mentoring where they recognize they are recognized and welcomed and challenge. where we get criticized for low graduation, where the average age is about 25 years of age and most of them are working 30 hours per week or more. in order to manage life, they cannot take a full load all the way through. we could raise the graduation rates by excluding those students from enrollment. but i think we have taken a position at csu we should be prideful about who we graduate

not who we exclude. we are working hard on getting more students graduating soon or individualized programs, recognizing they are not -- to individualized programs that support them, have success, and achieve the degrees. that may differentiate from the flagships who have different admission standards. coming together as americans all of those pathways. the point i would like to make multiple portersals of access, multiple ways to be successful that is way the american dream in this world of ours will be successful. >> i was just going to tag onto the back end of chancellor white's comments with cal state fullerton vantage point. i'm a new addition to cal state

fullerton. my past experience is for a number of years, working with student retention, in selective institutions or flagships, i thought, ok, cal state fullerton, i've done my research, i have a good idea of what is going on, and entering an environment that is 98% commuter 50% pell, a lot of the methodologies of a flagship state institution and select private institutions are limited in their scalability. the of the sis at cal state fullerton has really been -- the emphasis has been on strategies that are scalable. one of the more granular points i wanted to add is the importance of things like technology. we don't have the funds to hire the number of academic advisors to meet the standard. we are not going to get to that

250 to 1 standard academic advisors to students to do truly transformative advising every step of the way. but what would can do is on board technologies that allow the advising staff we do have to use a much more sophisticated predictive analytics platform to make sure the advising time they spend with students is spent on the students who need the help the most and the students who are most likely to benefit from the academic engagement across their first two years. really leveraging i think what in the private sector would be called big data to benefit the core practices like academic advising. alternately, putting technology and the students hands, allowing them to use mobile platforms to bring a simple of the pathway. whenever students see a murky sea of, you have 9 million options on your way to graduation, it can actually result in analysis paralysis and

the inability to move forward. an hour ago we were talking about human at a college swirl and the inability to really leverage that associates degree effectively. we are able to put technology and students hands now and soon we will be better at it, that allows them to really see the degree pathway mapped out for them from their first year forward. so they can say, you know, i'm thinking about switching from this major to that major, which is very common. what will the implications be on all the credits i brought in and how thou will -- and how will that reorganize itself. what do i need to do as a result of this shift in career and the need for a new major. so they don't have to sit down with an advisor for an hour to map that out. we have been able to access technology that will map it for them. i think a combination of these scalable situations and solutions are important in the inter-budgets and a very high

risk, like how state. >> i would imagine those principles, although slightly different, have some resonance to the presentation you made? dean: i do think that sometimes we make the mistake of scaling across campus too soon. we find a successful program and we are too quick to try to save money and therefore try to get everybody into that system. i put my business hat on and say short versus, scaling across is the way to go.

you don't say this is wonderful come let's do it for everybody. there are very specific things that we have done that i think makes students successful, and i would do this whether i was at a large university or small. there are specific advising and mentoring skill sets. students don't typically -- students from underserved groups typically do not do well unless special efforts are presented. so very specific counseling strategies like making sure they have core sequences in the right place, making sure no one takes economics before they have done statistics, because you have got to get them early to the idea

that quantity and chance comes before quantity and protection. if you have these kinds of specific strategies in place they can do economics, they can do metrics, they can do engineering, they can do experimental psychology. >> thank you. could i ask one more question, mr. chairman? chairman: sure. >> both for dr. hogan and chancellor white, could you talk about the number of students come to your campuses from the community college? at least my recollection is almost two thirds of the students were graduated by the california state university came to the university as transfers from the community college. and yet, commissioner yockey

the answer to his question about how predictive of success is actually going to the community college in the first place, what is the relationship between those two seemingly contradictory statistics? chancellor white and dr. hogan? chancellor white: recently we admit it 10,000 students in the fall. about 50% come from the committee colleges. the balance are either restarting or coming out of high school. and you are right, the community college transfers can be more successful and result in about 60% or so, varying 2% 3%, of

the overall graduates. a couple of things come in to play. first, in various regions, long beach being one, there is an affiliation of the k-12 system, humidity -- community colleges and cal state fullerton to where the faculty and administrators know that a student does the rate brings -- does the right things k-12 and goes to community college, they are assured admission at long beach state and will get through in a few more years. that partnership is developing many different areas. so that is one thing, where we have regionalized the systems and created that feeder system. there is also legislation that occurred a handful of years ago in california creating associate degrees for transfers, which actually challenged both the community college faculty in the

california state university faculty and, to the lesser risk that california university, to create model curricula, where students take a certain set of courses at a community college are guaranteed access to a california state university campus. that has just started about 2, 3 years ago with some degree of success. last year, about 6000 students came in with associate degrees. that means all of their lower work is taken care of and they can get right into their major and have a much greater probability of success. the losses happen when they are thrown out of high school into community college without direction. i think the paralysis of too many choices and distractions of life is what gets in the way. we actually worry sometimes, particularly the first generation going, they get thrown into community college without some sort of a lifeline

and we will never see them again. and they will go off and never fulfill their potential. i don't think our contradictory -- i don't think they are contradictory, but where there is evidence of some structure helps. >> dr. hogan? dr. hogan: some of my comments will sound similar but 15 years ago, we took in three first-time full-time freshmen for every one transfer. in 15 years, now today, it is a one-to-one ratio. that is a huge shift. why? societal parents in society have deemed community colleges is a good -- i'm not a spokesman for the humidity college, but maybe i'm just lucky. in maryland, there are great humidity colleges around the country, we have 16 humidity

colleges. when you think about what people always say, it so expensive to get a college degree, there is an affordable way if you want. and there is no more affordable way then going to community college, living at home. you might be living at home for work reasons or family reasons all kinds of reasons, and then transferring the last two years to a four-year institution. now, for that to work, as chancellor white said, there has to be some structure. we have a program in maryland called aces, and it's a collaboration between the university system of maryland community colleges, and k-12 where the community colleges send coaches down into the k-12 school. they identify students low income, first in the family potentially going to college who with some structure that,

frankly, they don't have at home or there is not a family history. it's not a question of where you going to college, the question is if you are going to college. and they helped get them on a guided path, a glide path and guide path to college. we have a way to go maryland program. we go out into middle schools around the state, low income middle schools, and have seminars to invite the students and parents and say this is the academic track that you need to get on, ok, starting in middle school so you are college ready. and, oh by the way, start thinking about scholarship programs and financial aid programs and if you can put a bit of money away, $25 per month, all of those structures are in place.

and we have a very very almost seamless articulation system between our community colleges and are four-year institutions. that is key. also, there is nothing worse than going to a community college, taking 60 credits, and having 40 of them transfer. to be successful, they need to be -- they need to be real courses, they need to be aligned with the courses for a freshman and sophomore year at a four-year institution so they will transfer, so when the student comes in their junior year, they are truly a junior. we even have one last one, if i may, we found a lot of students who i don't know if it is churning or swirling, credit accumulation with nothing to show for it.

we found a whole group of students who went to community college got 30 or so credits then transfer to a four-year institution and got another 40 credits. and then that's it. they now have 70 credits nothing to show. we have a reverse transfer process. we identify those students, keim indicate with the community college, and that student is likely with 60 or more credits if they are the right courses eligible for an associates degree. so they have some certificate, something. we established by legislation a two plus two program that rewards students for going to community college, getting the aa degree, and then transferring to a four-year institution. get the aa degree, they transfer, they get $1000 per

master -- person mr. scholarship, all majors. if they are a stem major it's $2000. there is a financial reward incentive for doing that. an institution like coppin state university, historically black institution, right in baltimore city they're woefully low secure graduation rate. but the students who transfer from community colleges, four times as high graduation. i was actually quite concerned when i heard statements that community college transfers don't succeed. we don't have evidence of that. >> i want to egg knowledge that for some time now -- i want to acknowledge that for some time now commissioners on the line.

he is listening and participating. i will now turn it over to the commissioner followed by the vice chair. that may take most of our time. >> thank you, mr. chair and thank you to the panelists. this is been very informative. at some point in the near future we will be writing a report that will make recommendations for increasing college access assistance, and attainment rates for underperforming minorities. we have had several panels that have been phenomenal and they have cited a number of programs that sensibly increase all those rates, but when you write a report to congress and the president, it comes down to basically one thing -- money. ok? so i've heard from a number of panelists we need substantially more funding. i've also heard from panelists

that some of these programs have been in effect for 50 years. we have had a department of education and exist in 36 years its is $70 billion per year, spends trillions of dollars coming at the sat scores are flat. college attainment has gone to number 111 spending trillions of dollars, and we have little to show for it. i saw another graph today that shows the achievement gap between blacks and whites is down two points. that means it will take 300 years before it is erased. that, to put it charitably, is just a modest improvement, and i'm being very charitable. i don't mean to be throwing cold water on all this, but if we are writing a recommendation to congress, if it comes down to money or the myriad programs i've heard about here, and arab a been a number of interesting ones. -- and there are a number of interesting ones.

bang for the buck, which ones in your estimation are the most effective? >> i would say the ones that allow our students to engage with faculty on a campus and not be scurrying off for part-time jobs, so the can actually engage in the learning enterprise are the ones who are aiding the most value. that is the important thing, work studies. because you are working a laboratory. the faculty member says, hey the organic chemistry exam tomorrow, do well, and they care. to me, education to me is more than just the abc's, it's learning how to work in group settings, it's learning how to set goals, it's learning how to aspire for success and manage defeat. it's much more than just being

able to understand saar-oxley if you are an accounting major. i would say what matters most are the types of support mechanisms for those who come from a low income status, first-generation status. the opportunity to be engaged and focused and not just be dropping in and dropping out. >> go ahead. >> i will be brief. i think, commissioner, one of the things you said really struck a chord. right now, the largest public coherent effort to try to address the problems you are naming is the access initiative. it is a national effort. it is over 22 state systems

hundreds of institutions, to try and connect access to actual college success. the learning how want to share with you from the midterm report from 2012's strategies that affect overall improvements in persistence and graduation for students in higher education don't necessarily close the achievement gap. my microphone is out of batteries, but i'm a loud person. closing the achievement gap oftentimes takes different strategies than improving the overall 4, 5, 6 year graduation rates. institutions were able to do a lot of good and the first 5, 6 years of the initiative in moving the needle. but when you move the overall by 10 points, and where the

african americans were lacking 15 points, every body was still moved, they are still lagging. we are trying to improve the echo system of higher education so it supports student persistence and timely graduation, and then the retention for specific group members. their identity is the crux of their experience in higher education. these institutions have been able to move the needle and closing the achievement gap are doing both. they are trying to also work very specifically with higher risk student communities to make sure they are supported, mwe entored, embedded with faculty all the good stuff, but that has to be done with great intentionality around race. i just wanted to make sure that was stated for the record. >> is this on?

i guess i want to add some questions. i have concerns about diversion of resources into humidity colleges at the expense of four-year colleges. the concerns i have is a fear of taking away choice and creating apartheid like systems can lead to one strategy towards education success for one group of people and another strategy for another group. we can talk about success. at harvard university, net tuition is the key. the plan they have that allows all income qualifying students to get debt-free education is effective. so we can find effective programs, but a want to add that question. then i want to end by talking about some new findings that deans and collaborators are looking at.

the study of income dynamics. they have an indicator of family giving to would tell towards various activities. one of which is education. clearly, that is supporting their children in higher education. it is not a surprise white families are more likely to engage in that activity than black families, but the resource differences are earlier. what we are finding that is perhaps surprising is when a black family -- that black families that do support their children, their resource positions are dramatically less than those of whites, which is suggestive there is not a lack of values for education and black families, but the other point is when we look for outcomes of their children, of the black families that give in comparison to the way families that give to the original children -- to their adult children, they have similar graduation rates from high school in the black families are nearly -- nearly 33% more likely

to get a graduate school degree, etc.. indeed, 55% of the black children, of the adult black children who receive help from their families supporting higher education actually do get a graduate of education degree. of course those results have all kinds of selection and reverse cordell eddie -- causality, but a what is noteworthy as resources really are key. there are families when we think of deficit models, there are some families that have resources in these groups that are able to come up with great outcomes. i hope that is helpful. >> we do have a little extra time, if you are done, commissioner? >> resources are key. because when students have the peace of mind to focus on their work, we have the strategies to help them get the work done.

rome was not built in a day, but it was built. there is a classic example where african-americans and others could not have a university until the late 1950's. so we have what it takes to do it. protect the resources, get the work done. >> commissioner, if you are done , i will have commissioner marisol asked a question and may be commissioner yockey as well. >> thank you. first of all, i want to applaud uva for moving to need-aligned admissions and making a commitment of support to make sure everyone who qualifies is able to attend. i think that is an amazing active leadership among a very important flagship school.

i just want to note that. so it's not that we are all complaining about everything a pair. i have two quick questions. one is, chancellor white, you noted in answer to the question helping students spend more time studying and engaging in school would be the most helpful. you mentioned work-study. i wanted to ask about other options. one other thing we had was the notion that the pell grant amounts have really fallen behind in terms of even covering the full cost of college, much less providing any kind of stipend. am wondering your position is on raising the grant amount and whether a stipend program may help. the second question i have is for those of you who talked about the trio program. there has been some

recommendation that the myriad of different programs be merged into one general grant program. i'm wondering your thoughts about what kind of reform in those programs might be helpful. >> thank you, commissioner. yes, i think it is really the combination of the opportunities that are out there. pell provides some resources. i'm concerned that students of color in low income in recent times are excluded from summer sessions. i think that is an artificial barrier to students. they fall behind a course, they could get back on course and get some support during the summer. i think there is a policy there that should be reconsidered. the stipend model i think is interesting to try on a pilot basis. i actually believe we are to be

clear as a nation and as a system on the goal, but loose on the means to get there. a campus like fullerton can tailor financial aid around the types of students they have, which differ from the students that we have at cal poly san luis obispo. so some degree of flexibility i think would be paramount and then hold campuses accountable with data on success in meeting certain objectives. that is important as well. but it's a combination of these avenues. education for a student is so personalized and individualized, yet we are doing it in a big scale. virginia is a big place. so i think that is the challenge in front of us. that we manage both flexibility hold people high on accountability, but have outcomes that matter. >> can i speak on that?

i would like to echo what chancellor white is saying about the pell and the summer pell. we have a limited amount of money that we can use for summer school, which allows them if they are not making satisfactory progress or they need to get ahead or try to do a double major or something along those lines, especially low income students, by having an additional pell for the summer, it allows institutional aid to go further and help other students. as far as a stipend, one of the things when we are meeting 100% of need, that includes not only tuition, fees, room, and board but also personal expenses of books and supplies and traveling home and getting to school. the bigger issue is when we are meeting a student and we are able to refund some financial aid to be able to assist with those items, it becomes a financial literacy issue.

how do you take that refund, budget it for the entire semester, and make that money meet your need in the form, like a stipend. >> many of the panelists come from schools where the students are actually having to work full-time on top. so it's not just the cost of school, it's actually also you have less time for school because you are working 40, 50 hours per week. >> i'm to give the vice chair one question. >> thank you, mr. chair. we heard yesterday from other panelists the federal government was investing in higher education at the tune of about 2.5 times more money than the states were investing. it was advocated by at least one of them that we do something that we change that funding

model. perhaps a model that would have the federal government match to some degree the moneys that the states were putting in that they needed some skin in the game. i was wondering, representatives from a couple of the systems here, will care to comment on whether that has any appeal to you at all? >> that would be a disaster for the state of virginia. it would be a disaster, because we don't put enough money in our system. >> and we are putting in less and less as time goes on. >> absolutely. >> i think there is some merit to the concept. we are in our final budget negotiations.

if you would call governor brown for me, i would be happy to give you his cell phone number. [laughter] i think, you know, what is difficult, and it will happen again sometime not just in the future what is the next recession -- what with the next recession. the state of california to one billion dollars, one third of the support out of california state university'sies in about two years. everybody was suffering across the country, so was not california specific. but a more refined partnership between the federal and state governments on shared responsibility, we are all in this together, to help buffee those moments -- to help buffer those moments. >> we are a state public university system. just by that definition, that means the states should be investing in the higher education.

knock on wood, i've been fortunate to be in maryland which has not cut higher education funding as dramatically as has many other states. but if i was in that situation i would submit that the federal money should have some type of maintenance of effort provision to it. why should a state abandon its responsibility and effort to funding its public higher education system and let the federal government pick up the tab, or the student or the parent? it absolutely is a shared responsibility. >> thank you. did you want to say something? >> really quick, history has shown us in multiple dimensions shared responsibility is disparate on race and race plays a huge role. we are interested in civil rights, and it's ethically right

to contribute, but i guess i'm rambling, but i could cite many examples. the g.i. bill, the administration of the g.i. bill is one that has led to disparate outcomes, by having it administered at the state level even though the funding came from the federal level. we could go on and on. if we were to come up with a program like this, we could look at examples i would imagine mississippi, which has the highest concentration of blacks may not contribute as much as a state like california, which has been a leader. i would have great concerns if we went to a pattern, if the goal is to increase access for all groups where we had more agencies within states on how the funds were administered. >> a quick question? >> i don't know of it will be too quick, but i will do the best i can. i'm glad to hear what was said about the cal state system with regards to the community college

program. i would also say there's a similar structured program that tries to take people and get them into the kind of curriculum , to get them into four-year colleges. it is showing dramatic success call the asap program, to get people out of this world. what was not said, but in a separate conversation it has, he was talking about the fact you basically run out of hell grant eligibility if you are caught in the swirl -- you run out of pell grant eligibility for stop you may go to that second institution in the second semester you are off. access has always been a together concern of mine. the impact of standardized tests on minorities is something that has always concerned me. i won't get too much into that,

other than to ask this one question because i have you all here. have you seen -- and i'm not for or against -- but have you seen any impact in terms of minority application rate, minority scores in applications with regard to the consequence of common core coming into the curriculum at the high school level? has anyone seen anything there? is it too early to tell, i suppose, but i hope it's something you watch for and look for because my nordic communities are concerned common core's testing curriculum may decrease the number of minority graduates from high school. >> i think we are actually in some places in the country leaning forward strongly on common core. as we go through the transition recognize there will be some white water in the numbers. our folks have been doing the

surrogates for the standardized testing. like psat and so forth, doing multiple analysis and trying to use other measures and variables to make sure we don't inappropriately exclude anybody and come as a consequence inappropriately lay exclude somebody of color or poverty. i think we recognize it will smooth out on the backend. >> anyone else on the panel? if not, i will remind you all the record is open and additional 30 days full stop anybody who would like to supplement any of their presentations or elaborate on any of the and questions we encourage you to provide that information in the next 30 days. thank you, everyone, and we will take a break until 1:00. we will reconvene at 1:00 for the afternoon panel. thank you.

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> ok, we are back on the record this afternoon for our third panel. i don't know how many of the panelists were here earlier, but i will repeat, for the sake of housekeeping, how we will keep track of your presentations. each of you will have an opportunity to speak for seven minutes, time to buy the series of lights. green's go, yellow is two minutes to wrap up and then read we will ask you to stop so that we can get to the next speaker and have an opportunity for the commissioners to ask questions. first, i went to introduce the panelist, and then i will swear

you win. our first panelist is from the cato institute for economic freedom. our second panelist is with the brookings institute. our third panelist is from the campaign for college opportunity. our fourth and final panelist is miss and neil from the american council of trustees and alumni. i ask each of you to raise your right hand and swear or from the information you are about to provide is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief. is that correct? yes? ok, think you. mr. mccluskey? >> thank you for inviting me to speak with you. i'm the director of the center for educational freedom at the cato institute, a nonprofit resource organization. my comments are my own and do not represent any position of the institute. while i will be speaking about ethnic and racial groups, all people are individuals.

know some of any person is -- no sum of any person is t only their race or ethnicity. my areas of focus will choice, higher education costs, and social capital. low income african-americans at least as of 2002 do not necessarily attend college at low our rates than low income white students, at least among students who have graduated high school. the did not look at hispanics. from 1969 until 1997, the rate fluctuated but that said it is not clear what the trend has been since the late 1990's. while enrollment for low income african-americans may have been roughly consistent with whites, the schools tended to be of lower quality. perhaps due in part to the

quality of colony or access, there may be disparities in completion. according to work by cambron low-income students -- low income white students -- success in college is connected to preparation and success before college. the national assessment of progress exams shows shrinking but then disappearing gaps when scores are broken by poverty. there are many factors of achievement that need to be addressed, especially for low income african-americans and other groups. one may be inadequate resources. research suggests this is not likely to be a major problem because of weak correlation between spending and outcome in spending and resources for black and white students have been largely equalized. rand reports other factors may

be four times eight times as important as in school resources. generally speaking with group values and orientations. one area where the seems to be no meaningful distention among groups is all believe education is very important, but this does not translate into equal enrollment or to completion. african-american families are more likely to be single-parent than their white families, making it more difficult for children who get regular high quality interaction with adults conducive to emotional and cognitive development. a potential proclivity stemming from generations of disenfranchisement is a sense among african americans education is very important but societal structures make overall success very difficult potentially dampening motivation. possibly supporting this partial

attribute all to improving civil rights environment. feelings of powerlessness remain however, and given high-profile cases of possibly egregious police misconduct -- can you hear me now? >> yes. egregious police misconduct. [laughter] >> great, you have read this before. as will a stubborn economic gaps, it could grow. there is also significant difference in the way that white parents interact with their children, large bases of ses and verbal interaction. they interact with children in ways that reinforce the expectations of their class. that said, everything from

learning experiences outside of a child's home and how a child is discipline appear to affect outcomes. middle-class parenting practices seem to have an effect. how can we mitigate these problems? it appears the overall cultures of schools with more way students is more conducive to african-americans, much more likely tied with ses. numerous studies have found positive peer effects, presence in schools and social networks that allows people to get information about colleges. school show choice can help allowing low income students to access schools focused on college. private school choice programs have significant positive effect, especially for african-americans.

one of the effects of aid programs help afford college. aid makes college more affordable. however, impair or evidence indicates colleges raise their prices. they would have little effect on private institutions when room and board is included. they have raised prices far in excess of state revenue. this is likely hit low-income students the hardest. the data appears to be disproportionally going to white students. this is problematic if minority students are most hurt by high sticker prices, which merit aid enables to rise. the track record to smooth access to college. research programs found less than ideal research methods. these are indicative of other federal programs with no

compelling evidence the ameliorated access problems. there is significant evidence student a programs have exacerbated price inflation. the research on large-scale government pre-k programs does not support the benefits, finding they fade out. there are no easy answers to college access problems since many programs appear ineffectual. seems to work as school choice likely does so by increasing top-down control and minority students to seek out what they need. we'll see need groups to reach out to low income parents and provide services such as conversation, intensive day care . the message needs to be loud and clear success is possible for all. >> mr. haskins? >> good afternoon and thank you for inviting me.

it's a great pleasure and honor. i will like to open with comments about the disadvantage in american society and show why education plays such a crucial role in ameliorating this disadvantage and focus on three specific solutions. first, we start with test performance. neil has gone over that, but it's extraordinary the differences in test performance. word knowledge begins even before the third year of life, but they are clearly evident by age three. if anything, the schools increased the gaps during the k-12 school year. schools are not helping close that gap. the second thing leading to differences in intellectual achievement play big role in the huge differences in household income so that we have a huge discrepancy in household income. the average white lives in a household with 58,000 other income. the arches spanning 41,000, the average black 34,000.

that is a 40% less income than a household with white families. we have even more impressive wealth gaps that are astounding. it declined substantially because of the effects of the recession. almost all the wealth was in their house and they lost their house. i want to draw your attention to something that is especially important and that is the ability of parents to pass their advantages on to their children. consider the middle of distribution of parent income. roughly 50,000 to 80,000. if for black parents, their kids almost -- only 45% of them finish in the middle or higher. whereas 70% of white kids finish in the middle or higher. there are -- it is a huge problem for parents to pass their advantages onto their

children. let's focus on the role of education and fighting this disadvantage. i want to begin with the first chart. it is a complex chart. it is worthy of study. look at the two left bar graphs. these are show what happens to people whose parents were in the bottom, below $30,000. the one of far left are kids that did not go to college and the right bargraph are kids that did. as you can see from the same bottom of the distribution, the kids that achieved a college degree -- it changes their life course. look at the very bottom. 46% of the kids, if they don't go to college, will remain in the bottom. this is not equality of opportunity. whereas if they don't go to college, they have only a 10% chance. if they go to college there is

only a 10% chance of being in the bottom. i have been looking at studies all my life, there are very few impacts. that is a huge impact. there is no question a four-year college would make a big difference. there is good news on education. the national assessment of education progress shows some closing of the gap between whites and blacks and even less between whites and hispanics. and, as you can see, there is a huge change in growth and minority enrollment in post secondary institutions starting in 1976 and almost continuous progress for all minority groups. that is good news. there is bad news, too. this chart shows from the very top which is the bottom 20% all the way up to the top which is 20%. first, we see that in stairstep

fashion parents are able to pass their advantage on to their children so kids that are on wealthy families are more likely to graduate. look at the rates of the bottom chart that shows the ones that actually graduate. here you can see the graduation rates are a huge problem. kids enrolled but they do not graduate and that is a very big problem. many of those kids wind up with debt and they don't get the degree that allows them to get more money to repay the debt so this is a really big problem we should look at carefully. so there is some good news but it is mitigated. i want to show you this which is really intriguing and something you should pay attention to. what this shows is the college enrollment by parents income quartile for kid to finish in various places in their own achievement -- you can see both the parents income and the kids achievement test scores make a

difference and it is progressive across the income groups. the top group, even kids in the bottom third by test scores do better than kids in the next quartile down and so forth. both parents income and achievement. here is another thing -- look at all the space, especially in the middle and top third between 100% and the level they are. that is the ripe fruit to get those kids more likely to go to college. they appear to be prepared and preparation is a big deal. next chart. student aid, i agree with neal that student aid is not the key. i think we have a lot of student aid that increased dramatically, but i don't think student aid is a huge problem. there are huge barriers -- economic preparation which is the single most important

barrier. selecting a college and the application process and the ridiculous fafsa. that needs to be changed. and financing plays a minor part of the problem. and then a huge dropout rate we need to address. let me make three points about things i hope you will look into. the first is the college prep programs. there are a bunch of them. together they spend $1 billion. i don't think they are very successful. they don't look good except for one which is math and science. i would look at that program. i would make a series recommendation about how we can use that billion dollars. fafsa -- it is ridiculous we have such a complex form. every kid has the fill it out and it is very difficult for them. their parents have a lot of trouble helping them fill it out. that needs to be simplified. the administration promised to do it and neither did it. the last recommendation i would

recommend his major reforms in the finance of colleges. they should make some of that money given to colleges contingent on the college's graduation rate. if we did that, i guarantee you the colleges would pay more attention to the problem at half the money was depended on success of the kids. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. thank you for having me. my name is michelle, i service the campaign president for opportunity. i served on the california student aid commission which a words over $1.7 billion in calgrant aid to californians who needed in order to go to college . you have my written testimony. it is fairly long so i will try to highlight some key points. i was asked to speak about some of the research we have conducted on differences by race in california. i will do that. i actually have a couple of

handouts from are just release reports on the state of higher education in california for latinos and blacks in our state that i hope you will have a chance to reference and review. you know, first of all, i would not be before you today if it weren't for the fact that there have been federal investment and state investment in my college opportunity. i'm the first in my family to go to college. i was only able to do so because i got a federally subsidized loan. i got work-study. all of those things made my opportunity to go to college and earn a degree possible. that is exactly why i work for the campaign for college opportunity. we were founded by an unlikely alliance of business leaders civil rights leaders and education leaders that believe strongly we needed an outside independent voice to advocate for higher education in our state, but also for some of the type of reforms that was pointed out in terms of ensuring we

actually have not just enrolled students into college, but we get them to graduation. we have played a critical role in advancing policy and using our research to help advance that policy. focus really on the economy of california, but also what is good for students. sometimes that means we are on the same side of institutions that serve our students. sometimes it means we are pressuring them to do a better job at serving our students. your review of this topic is really essential. i would argue this certainly is a civil rights issue of today. whether or not students have the opportunity to go to college is critical for low income students. it is harder for students to go to college today than ever before. only 30% of students in low income backgrounds go to college compared to 80% of their counterparts. it is more likely for a "d' student to go to college and graduate with a high income

student compared to a greater graded student with lower income. that should be shameful. if we are going to retain our position and try to recapture the position as a leader in producing four-year degrees we will have to address issues of race in our country as we become more and more diverse. latinos represent 17% of america's population. blacks are 13%. asians are 5%. non-hispanic whites are 63% by 2034, the nation will be even more diverse. demographic productions -- projection so non-hispanic whites will no longer be the largest ethnic group. making sure that college opportunity entertainment is equal across our racial and diverse communities is going to be essential. obviously, california is in many ways ahead of the curve in terms of that diversity. we are already a minority majority state. one in two kids that are under

18 are latino. and we are also to be commended for our world renowned university system -- the university of california our 23 cap a state university system. you heard from chancellor white earlier today. 112 colleges and a pretty generous financial aid program targeted at student based need, not merit which unfortunately too many states in the nation focus on. our own research as part of this series of papers that we gave to you on the state of higher education in california demonstrates why race analysis still matters. latinos in our research, we found, are more -- the good news more and more are graduating from high school and going to college. as ron mentioned. unfortunately, they are

disproportionately represented in at every sector of higher education. despite our expensive higher education system, latinos are not represented in relation to the numbers of the population at any of those institutions whether it is community colleges , for-profit colleges, independent colleges or the university of california. you can see in the chart just what those statistics look like. latino students to go to college, the majority in role at a california community college. for blacks, i will not go into other findings. from blacks in higher education i wanted to point out a few things. we have seen improvements over time. improved high school graduation rate. more students are likely to graduate from high school today in california than they were in 1990. however, there is still a huge

gap in terms of graduation rates when compared to other ethnic groups. you also see black students in our state are slightly overrepresented at california community colleges similar to latinos. they enroll in a community college. they are overrepresented at for-profit colleges. significantly underrepresented at the university of california. we found in this report that has been a decline in black enrollment at the cal state system since the recession. some of the concerns are about college preparation. only one third of college students come out of our high schools with having completed the course requirements which you need in order to even apply to the university of california system. right off of that, 70% of latino students and blacks cannot even enroll or apply. their option is community college which highlights why improving outcomes for students at community colleges is so

important. some of the findings you have before you show completion rates are really dismal. this is where most students are going so much more needs to be done. if federal funding has a goal of helping colleges and supporting diversity of population, my belief is funding needs to be allocated that better supports our four-year college system and holds them accountable for improving outcomes. i know my time is up so i wanted to highlight some of the recommendations. we do believe we have to support enrollment for students, but completion is key. we should incentivize, we should measure performance by our university not just enrolling. we give lots of federal funding for hispanic serving institutions and historically black university's. we should make that is sufficient funding but also make

sure we hold those colleges accountable for their graduation rate. i agree with our fellow test the fires around simplifying -- testifiers around simplifying fafsa. we should expand income contingent loans to make sure college is affordable for students. with that, i will stop. >> thank you. ms. neal? >> i must tell you your topic in the unique opportunity it gives -- do i need to turn something? let me start again. thank you, mr. chairman. i will tell you your topic and the unique opportunity it gives to examine this of a rights intact as gatekeepers for title iv funds is inspired and long overdue. students need clear information about quality and financial stability to have the best chance for success. most especially those with limited financial needs and limited familiarity with higher

education. the accreditation system fails those students and i will pose an alternative. let's start with a little background. in passing the higher education act nearly 50 years ago congress linked accreditation and federal student aid to prevent students from squandering taxpayers money as well as their own on diploma mills. it took the creditors who additionally provided voluntary peer-reviewed of academic programs and made them gatekeepers of title iv. the accreditation needs to be a voluntary choice and became a costly mandate since virtually every school depends on title iv to survive. the ata provided that a creditors would be given a educational quality so it is no wonder the public and many members of congress believe accreditation is a good housekeeping seal of approval. nearly 7000 colleges universities and professional

schools in the united states are accredited so they can receive title iv funds. in the 2012-13 school year title iv amounted to $174 billion. the united states spent more money for people in higher education than any other nation. yet, accreditation is not a reliable indicator of quality. it deceives students and consumers. it is essentially a confidential process which hides in institutions advantages and this advantages. let me his explain. harvard and yale is accredited. so is our lady of holy cross college, the university of texas at brownsville and armstrong atlantic. if i am a student at harvard i'm nearly 100% likely to graduate in four years. if i go to hodges university in florida, based on the data from the 2007 cohort, i have zero

chance of graduating in four years assuming i am a first time full-time student. if i go to our lady of holy cross college i have a 5% chance of graduating in four years. among african-american students a quarter of the student body, only 7% of first-time full-time students graduate within six years. at the university of texas at brownsville were 90% of the students are hispanic, only 9% of first-time full-time students graduate within for years. it gives us a snapshot of what is happening. schools with sad stories of performance are accredited and receive title iv funds but students have no way of knowing what they are getting into if they take out loans to pursue their dreams. student debt now exceeds $1 trillion and those most likely to be in debt, heavy debt are minority students.

bottom line -- all students are hurt by accreditation which too often protects institutions that do not provide transparent information and do not deliver good outcomes. the negative impact is greatest on those students who typically have the most limited financial needs and are least familiar with our higher dictation works. it is not that they don't just graduate it is they often leave with lots of student debt and few employment prospects. this is morally indefensible and the blame should be placed on colleges. that is not the end of the story. students are hurt because accreditation standards often lead to higher costs with very limited benefits. over the years accrediting associations has been quite happy to exhort quality colleges to spend more money. financial burdens are imposed with no obvious return. for example, campbell university in north carolina with a 23% minority population was placed on probation some years ago because it standard faculty

teaching load was 15 hours per week. the accreditor thought 13 was the proper load. the school made the classes larger. there were 60 or more. what they don't value is also instructive. they don't assess whether a school is put into place a rigorous core curriculum, a prescribed limited and far less costly set of course requirements that point the way towards completion. tnearly 1100 institutions across the country. morehouse college are two of only 23 schools to receive a rating for the general education programs, ensuring closure to financial subjects. do they get any special shout outs? no.

in fact, schools that have do-it-yourself curriculum are more likely to be praised. what does the school do if it is being abused by an ac creditor? they raise concerns about their standards which invariably raises costs without clear benefit. these questions are legitimate, but the fact is institutions in these situations have no place to go. the regional monopoly other of accreditors have no choice. just one example recently of how accreditation also interferes with innovation. in ohio, there is a school. some years ago faced with the challenges of a higher ed marketplace, and made available online programs for those who cannot pay the tuition and was able to show proven student learning. the higher learning commission decided to second-guess

for-profit partnerships and they were forced to put an end to the online innovation. many students, at least 40% minority with 90% eligible for pell grants, were left without an affordable educational option. we need to put an end to the existing system and create a more transparent and far less costly way. i'm happy to report this is being done at the state level most particularly in florida where higher education leaders were frustrated by the system and instead put into place an annual accountability report of metrics. because of this, we know minority students and their families have been empowered more than ever before. i will be happy to talk more about those details. by way of example in 2010, the university of florida which was outlined in this accountability report, proved to be one of four flagship institutions given the higher marks on measures of

equity serving low income and minority students by education trust. more money is not the answer. greater accountability is. it is time we eliminated the deeply flawed education system and replaced it with a transparent system of accountability that rewards schools that do right by their students. thank you so much. >> would you like to open up the questioning? >> thank you. mr. haskins from the brookings institution. the achievement of the baccalaureate degree, the key to social and economic mobility. your figures indicate that is indeed the case. do you have any -- how can you explain why that is? mr. haskins: it is because they

actually learned something in college. they made contact with people that made help them later. when you apply for a job, it is helpful to have a four year degree. it is something researchers call selection. that means a kid that goes to college -- use saw the data on how many dropout -- once they finish, it is not only because they learn more. there is a whole complex set of features they have. they stick to it and work hard when things get tough. those are selection affects. they are not directly measurable and not measured, but they do contribute. college in that sense is a sorting device. i think we can see the same thing and are seeing the same thing with two-year colleges and degrees and apprenticeships. four-year colleges is not the complete answer.

>> no, they are not. but, we do need to increase in sheer numbers the number of successful graduates of four-year institutions. do we not? mr. haskins: absolutely. not only that, we need to track them to figure out what happens. we don't have great information about what happens when they leave. so a number of institutions are creating the ability to follow students to figure out if they get a job, whether wages are and so forth. that is the kind of thing if you implemented the kind of suggestion i made of making college is contingent on their performance. >> you said as much as half of the eight -- aid -- mr. haskins: there is no scientific formula.

how would you feel if the whole -- all of our spending at the federal level or state level were based on no information about the results? that is what we have been doing and it does not make sense. >> understood. i just wanted to know what 50% came from. when someone from the brookings institution says 50%, i thought well, i guess. i would hate for the governor of california to get that information and think he could change overnight from a system based on enrollment to a system -- a funding system based on at least overnight -- mr. haskins: it is not 50% but here is my point -- organizations that are being held accountable do not like it. if they realize it is too late, they want 5% of the money where 10%, it ought to be substantial. we could start with five

or 10 but we have to make them more accountable. >> i don't disagree with you. i know you are deeply familiar with the practices that work and the practices that do not work when it comes to -- you both are able to assess the performance gaps and you have done a lot of work in terms of processing what helps -- assessing what helps and what does not. part of what we are struggling with here is is this an issued that can be addressed successfully? i think the answer to that is yes, but i would like to know what you think the answer is and if you could delineate some practices that you have found through your research that are helpful in addressing these various forms of achievement gaps. collects

>> the first thing i would say is data matters. we do quite a bit of investing and we don't know what the end result is. we don't analyze data in a comprehensive way. i think what works are institutions that use data in very proactive ways to change results. you heard earlier from cal state fullerton. they're actually one of the colleges we profile because they have a really aggressive agenda around closing the gap. if you are not analyzing what is happening at your institution by race and then how are you ever going to figure out solutions for addressing that? i think they are a perfect example of innovation in that process. we also profiled, as we released the state of higher ed for black students in california, the minority college collaborative which is an effort launched by professors at san diego state university that focuses on

actual using research on what works for african-american students and helping to evaluate and assess community colleges to implement practices that can help support completion. for institutions. they point out a lot of the research is done in terms of what works for students at four-year universities. you need really good data. you need leadership at institutions that care about closing the gaps and are not afraid of talking about how to close it. you absolutely need incentive that forces them to do that. we know statewide cow state has a graduation initiative that is about closing the gap. i don't see how you change these results without doing that. there is obviously the k12 rule. we have to make sure more high schools are better preparing students. race matters because most of our latino and black students in california attend low performing schools.

is not just a cultural phenomenon that latino and black students do not go to college and graduate at higher levels. they go to the least performing schools where they have the least prepared teachers. there are institutional factors that have to be addressed and those can only be addressed through policy and funding. >> thank you. >> commissioner? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i don't know if we under invest in higher education in the absolute sense. i'm really worried we over invest higher education relative to other kinds of investment in human capital. vocational education -- not everybody wants to go to college. many people prefer other kinds of vocations learning.

not every subject is best taught in a classroom situation. i'm wondering if any of you have any comment on these other kinds of vocational education other kinds of investment in terms of human capital. are we under investing ther e? >> i think that is an excellent point and it is important this cannot just be about higher education. there is a lot that happens before that. if you look at a lot of other countries, they do have much more robust vocational tracks than we do. if you don't want to go to a school where you have to take a liberal arts course and maybe you can get your engineering degree and you want to do something considered vocational -- that term has negative connotations -- but you can do that. there is a danger with that. if you think about ger