"chicago tribune" columnist parents page will join us. we will also take your tweets, phone>> in a shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy. there is something particularly heartbreaking about the deaths happening in a place in which we seek solace and we seek peace and a place of worship. host: that was the president reacting to the shootings in charleston, south carolina. this morning on "the washington journal" we want to hear from you regarding what happened in the church.

we have set aside a line for residents of charleston, south carolina. we want to get your perspective as well. you can leave a comment also on social media, twitter, facebook, or an e-mail. from "the new york times," reverend pinckney was holding a bible study session with a small group on wednesday when surveillance video shows the suspect arrived after 8:00 p.m. a slight blonde man with a bowl haircut and a gray sweatshirt. he sat down with the others for a while and listened, then began to disagree with others as they spoke about scripture, said chris in washington who heard the harrowing story from her family members were at the meeting and survived. witnesses to the killings of the gunman asked for the pastor when

he entered the church and sat next to mr. pinckney during the bible study. they said a must in our after he arrived, the government suddenly stood and pulled a gun and is washington's cousin, 26 years old, known as the peacemaker of the family, try to call my talk to me out of violence. the gunman began shooting others. she said --

host: that is the new york times recount of what happened in charleston, south atlanta.

ryan is a democrat and new orleans. caller: i talk about the racism every day in louisiana in the south. local radio station hosts, they talk about crime playing the race card. but every day you have people come on the radio and their racists. right here in louisiana. every day we talk about it by black people experience this every day. and it is a shame when a guy can go into the church and kill elderly people, god's people, and, you know, every day black people -- we seem where black men are unarmed and get killed. i just can't believe it, man. it is just ridiculous, you know? i will just listen.

i appreciate it. host: loretta lynch spoke about the issue of hate crimes yesterday. >> with respect to the hate crime investigation, i'm not when you go to the specifics because we do have someone in custody and we want to make sure to preserve the integrity of the investigation, but certainly some of the elements that came out that were reported to us lead us to conclude that was a possibility, so we opened it as a hate crimes investigation. now that we do have someone in custody, we will be exploring all of the motives that may have been in play there. host: this chart is in "the new york times" -- bonnie republican, maryland. caller: i just think this whole

thing is pathetic that they could not let these people rest in peace. obama, holder, had to come out first thing and try to race bait us. i live in maryland. what about all of these people in baltimore that have been killed by blacks? you don't hear from black hills a black or black hills of white, there is nothing said from holder or lynch were obama. we have more divide now than we have ever had, and it is sad. i'm 71. i lived back when it started all this race. let me tell you and bel air, the older black people, you could not -- they fought against when the black come in, they fought it. you could not have asked for better people to live by. i had a babysitter that was black, and i'm telling you, i

had more respect for her and i did any white woman in this state. so tell obama and holder to stop this race baiting. they are responsible for all of these people getting killed. that point, the father gave him the gun. the father is responsible as much as the son for putting that gun in that boy's hand. god bless us all. host: this is jerry. jerry is a democrat in detroit. caller: good morning, peter. i mean, that caller from maryland, let's not take anything she says with -- let alone a grain of salt. anyway, when i first heard about this shooting, i was stunned. i was shocked.

but at the same time, i wasn't surprised. because whenever something like this occurs, they tend to try to dismiss it, oh, it is not hate crime. but i want to ask this question of every white person listening to the sound of my voice. i am wondering just how far in terms of their perceptions people of color and their thought, just how far white people have come in america as far as their thinking? as far as blaming the president and the attorney general? nothing could be further from the trick. i mean, for some time now, ever since they came and office white people have been scapegoating this president because they really hate him so much. and people try to demonize any black person that tries to speak out on issues like guns or hate

crimes, and it only goes to show the more things change, the more they stay the same. i'm sad to say, i don't think white people have come a long way in this country and that is just my opinion. host: or fourth line is set aside for charleston, south carolina residents. a tweet -- senator rand paul was at the faith and freedom coalition meeting yesterday, and he spoke about what happened. >> it needs to be a combination of religious people, people in government who are religious pastors -- in his to be a combination of all of the above, and there is not nearly enough. we had the shooting this morning in south carolina. what can a person goes in a church and choose nine people? there is a sickness in our country.

there is something terribly wrong, but it isn't going to be fixed by your government. it is people strangle way, people not understanding where salvation comes from -- straying away, people not understanding were salvation comes from. i think if we understand that, we will have better expectations of what we get from our government. host: bob, high river minnesota independent line. caller: all right. the hate is from the national republican nazi party which all republicans are a part of. they have been pushing hate the day before obama took the oath. if they would cooperate with obama, things would have been a lot different, but they have been baiting with him since the day he took office just because the skin isn't their color.

mcdonald and boehner or mcconnell i mean, he has been spreading hate. he is a claims member -- klans member in the closet. that's all i've got to say. the country would have been better off if the democrats were somebody -- independence would have fought for obama more and let the republicans when the rhetoric for -- everything they say out of their mouth is twisted. host: this is tony in the suburbs in maryland. independent line. caller: good morning, c-span. i agree with the last caller a caller before last. but i would not go so far to say it is all quite people. -- white people. this man was a white-wing extremist.

some of these people like to label people of color terrorists, terror suspects. that is what this man was. but we don't call it that if your skin is not that dark. they don't want to call it that, for some reason. but he was a terrorist. let's call it like we see it. they like to use the word "islamic terrorist." we need to identify them. they are islamic terrorists. well, this man is a white terrorist. awake extremist. however you want to label these folks of color that you are so afraid of that make a lot of money from terrorism, you need to use the same words for this man. host: part of the debate in the papers is whether or not this should be looked at his crime -- a crime, pay crime, hate crime or an act of terrorism. caller: it is a terrorist attack and a hate crime, both.

it is a terrorist attack. let's call it like we see it. if he was muslim, it would be called that. host: that is tony and district heights, maryland. "the washington times" profile some of the victims. here is one. 49 years old, and enrollment counselor in southern was the university's charleston campus growing to a friend. . another one of the victims was cynthia hurd.

54 years old, the manager of one of the busiest branches of the library system. detroit, democrat. your reaction? caller: good morning, c-span. jeremiah chapter 17:9 he says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. i, the lord, search the hearts . according to the fruit of his doings. it is understanding the nature of man. man has fallen away from god. in our country, in our public school system, our kids are in an environment that is atheistic.

it is away from god. they don't want to hear with the word of god has to say. but god is a spirit. man is a spirit. we possess a soul. the house we live in is our body. and until we are able to feed the word of god into our spirit, that is what changes the heart. you can have all the laws you want written on your law books but until man's heart changes and learns the word of god, man isn't going to change. he is when to go into those things because -- he is going to go into those things because he is subject to the things the devil wants them to do. yes, there is a real devil. he works through people who don't know anything about god. i heard that someone mentioned salvation. that is through the lord jesus

christ. the thing about it is, there are so many people that are out here ministering and some of them don't even know the lord themselves. they make up things and they can't prove it by what the word of god says. host: jeff duncan, republican commerce and from south carolina. he was on the house floor talking about what happened yesterday in charleston. >> tragedy shot to the hearts of every family and community last night in south carolina. it is important times like these to remember we are all made an image of god come all brothers and sisters in christ and are there to shoulder the burden of tragedy and loss. please pray for the 180-year-old emanuel ame church who suffer the loss, the city of charleston tormentor with distress, the state of south carolina and his law enforcement personnel. we all need to come together with compassion and love. host: the front page of "usa today" --

they have a couple of related articles. this one is "study of violence." i lost my second page. i'm so sorry. we will have to come back to it. my bad. democrat, on the air. caller: can you hear me? host: we are listening. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just want to say this young man shouldn't have done that. i am all for gun control but

what has been done so far is the president and other people bring up the gun issue, it really doesn't have to do with the gun issue. it takes the focus off what this crime is. first of all, this is a hate crime. secondly, in this is the bigger must important one, it is terrorism. had this man been black, it would've been calling him a thug and criminal. had he been muslim or brown skinned, they would have been calling him a terrorist, without any facts coming up. that is the problem with the media. every time the shooter happens to be a white person, which white people usually are the best shooters in this country. they never try to call them terrorists. they always call them mentally ill or something comes delusional. always making an excuse for these killers. and that is the sad thing about this whole thing. it is terrorism and we need to

call it terrorism. it is domestic terrorism. giving a perfect example yesterday, of we try to go to other countries and kill people and worried that muslims come to kill us, but when we kill us, when americans kill us, we don't really care. we just point fingers at other people. we make it like, what are you going to do? we need to care about us killing us, not just about other people coming to kill us. host: maryland, thank you. a couple of tweets --

host: "the new york times" this morning, many ask, why not call it terrorism? the massacre of nine african americans has been classified as a possible hate crime, p riley, carried out by a 21-year-old white man who wants were -- were suppose

host: republican line, carl? caller: good morning. i agree this was an act of terrorism and i'm sure this man will burn in hell for the dt has done. i'm 76 years old. i grew up in southern west virginia. back then, people did look down

on blacks as subhuman, but i personally have come a long ways. i have grandkids that are part african-american, and i love them just as much as i do the other ones. but on the other hand, you take this deal out in ferguson where this narrative of hands up don't shoot, was a lie. but all of these newsmen football players, they promoted this thing i've hands up, don't shoot, and it was a total lie. even know i am a republican, i don't hate women, i was married for 43 years. i don't hate kids. i have five kids and 26 grandkids. and i'm not a racist. i look at people for what they are. but it seems like every presidential election, they try to divide us on race, rich and

poor. the democrats play people against each other. and i think that is totally wrong. i'm not a racist. i don't hate women. i don't hate little kids. you know, i am a true republican. thank you. host: that was carl. this is robert, another republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am very just said to hear about what happened in charleston yesterday. i think -- listening to callers -- i don't consider myself an extra partisan one side or the other. i find it much more difficult and left to identify one side from the other.

it doesn't matter whether you call it terrorism and i personally do not feel -- i don't oppose -- i am from maryland and i used to be a supporter of connie marilla. and i'm willing to admit the tea party is not my brain of the republican party anymore. but it is not about -- connie marilla was a very moderate republican. and -- my point is i don't think gun control alone are certain measures, mental health measures -- i think -- it might sound superficial, but what rodney king said, i think about the youth in this country have been hardened in a way that what we have seen going on in the world. that is not to take away what

happened back in the 1960's in the south. it was a different time. but now you have technology and your people who feel alone and isolated. and it is stunned about republican-democrat, left-right, a white terrorist or like terrorist, who the victims are. we need to look at this from a sociological vantage point. that doesn't mean you psychoanalyze everybody or you group to brother -- group together anyone who might be from a troubled background. you can't predict these things. i would simply say this, we need to come back and find moderation. i saw a lot of it back in march on c-span, a lot of these people in new york -- they seemed a bit more to the left than the right maybe because woman in the

audience, jacqueline, she was a bloomberg -- mayor bloomberg's campaign manager. a lot of of angry people. i don't consider myself angry. cynical. i would not use those words. however, a lot of -- host: robert, let's leave it there. robert calls for what he would -- calls for return to what he calls moderate. 90% of attacks were carried out by one or two people. these incidents occurred on average once every 34 days according to the study by the southern poverty law center.

host: bethesda, maryland, democrat. good morning. caller: i was just thinking we should have a picture of this assailant and right over his head should be a sign that says "nra hard at work for you" because this is the issue of gun control. it is, again, the fact that even though 91% of americans want can control, the nra is able to pay off all of our politicians democrat and republican, so we don't get gun control. i want to tell every black person who is listening today that there are plenty of white people who are appalled and disgusted by this act.

we feel so sad. we feel miserable about it and we are with you on this. it is as a matter of gun control again. thanks. host: lawrence's calling in from st. paul, minnesota on our independent line. caller: peter always good to hear your voice, thank you. there are a million act of kindness in this country the cross city, gender race, culture, call it what you want. people like jeffrey dahmer, the unabomber, timothy mcveigh and this guy still in roof -- dylann these are people that lackroof. . morals, ethics, and values. i think it is tragic that people look through this incident with myopic lenses trying to attribute it to a group of people or political party. these people, sadly, don't have a moral fiber.

i realize we are all angry. i realize we want to vent, but let's remember there are more good things that happened across this country on a daily basis regardless of political party were religion. let's try not to lump people into a single category. thanks for the opportunity. host: if you are living in charleston, south carolina, and want to talk about what happened on their -- the president also yesterday spoke about the issue of gun control. >> but let's be clear. at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. it doesn't happen in other places with this kind of

frequency. and it is in our power to do something about it's. -- do something about it. it would be wrong not to acknowledge it. at some point it will be important for the american people to come to grips with it. for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively. host: gunowners of america sent out this tweet. it could have possibly been prevented. it says in south carolina

concealed carry weapons holder can carry in places of worship with permission from a church official. the pastor voted against concealed carry. from the charleston post and courier newspapers, this article. state house confederate battle flag remains at full staff. it became part of the charleston church story shooting. the rebel banner was left flying at its full height. this tweet says the confederate flag flies high above government buildings, encouraging the white supremacist mindset.

caller: we are going to get through it. my comment would be -- here in america, we are ignorant about facts, reality, history. we tend to lean on our emotions instead of what is fact and truth and what has happened to the american people is that information, knowledge, and education has been hijacked by a group of people stopping the knowledge of everything coming to the people. the only way we can act like human beings and not want to kill one another is to know exactly who we are and we as

americans, we do not know who we are. we have a false sense of identity that we believe we have . it is not truth. when you have truth, you can be your true self. a lot of killings go on becomes -- because the mind is not right. that is what happens with mercedes-benz. you would not want to put 87 in the mercedes-benz. you would want to put supreme gas in the car. we need proper education to know who we are and who our neighbors are. that is what is going on in america. there is game going on to keep people fighting one another while a certain group controls the two. no one gets ahead. we do not want to face reality

and deal with it the way we should to stop the killing across the board. host: what do you do in charleston? caller: i am a truck driver. i haul mail. host: i want to get your reaction to this. racist ideology still prevalent in charleston, some say. it says slavery may be abolished, but some residents say white supremacy is not. caller: that is true. the reason that young gentleman who went in a church ended that killing, the reason he had that mine to do that is because that mindset, that negative imagery was transferred from one older white person to a younger one because he is too young to know the history of white and black from the 1960's, 1940's, 1930's.

someone had to put that imagery in him. it is a transfer of negative imagery from older whites to younger whites. that is why racism still exists here. that is a continuation. we refuse to speak about it. there are a lot of white folks who know folks racist as hell but they do not say nothing. if white folks and black folks who proclaim to be christians lovers of god and jesus, jesus did not build one church. he went out where the people were and talk to them. that is another thing. we hold on to things -- honestly, it is not reality. reality is, jesus wanted to

perfect the world, but the people in the world, they do not want to perfect it. certain folks who have money and power, they would have to relinquish the money and power. some folks are more in love with money and power then human life. -- money and power than human life. host: we're going to put the numbers up. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. toasting, south carolina residents (202) 748-8003. it says here charleston, a city of 120,000 people is 68% white and 25% black. the city is wealthy, but divided.

a lawyer says he has been working with charleston residents on the issues of racism and police violence in the aftermath of walter scott's death. he said black residents have told him racism is persistent and loveland -- and prevalent. they are telling me that this is not a surprise. thomasina, a democrat. caller: the people that knew this guy he is a punk. he is a racist punk. this guy dylann, was heard making racist remarks. people are acting shocked.

people in the south talk that way. i live in florida. i hear it here. mark sanford was interviewed questioned about the confederate flag, why it still flies. he says, it is our heritage. it is states rights. nikki haley has the same attitude. no, take down the damn flag. it is an insult and it is hurting people. even the germans, after the barbarism of the germans, they admitted they were wrong. they rehabilitated themselves. they are the most fair, open people now. they learned. the south has not learned. host: that was thomasina. kim, from florence, south

carolina. caller: we are about 2.5 hours from charleston. it is a beautiful city. i agree with the article. racism is very prevalent. it is a sad thing. it is a problem we have with these massacres. it is a multifaceted problem. it does not have one solution. in my opinion, manning handguns is a good place to start. -- banning handguns is a good place to start. we will probably never get rid of all confederate out there but i believe that no one needs a handgun. i do not understand why our society is obsessed with this idea of owning handguns. that is my opinion. i appreciate you listening. host: robert tweets criminals never have a problem getting guns, legal or not.

vatexan says hate is not going to go away. caller: there are a couple of issues here around us. as a society, because we have the second amendment, we have become desensitized to what the bottom line is to owning these guns. it feels like everybody falls on the second amendment, it is a right. what is the second amendment? it is ink on paper. it is very simple. we have got to fix this. we have to put amendments to it or change the whole amendment completely. what this was all about, it is about people against american values that want to progress and

move forward. i have this image in my head what took place in nevada with that ted bundy incident. we have lawmakers worried about muslim and islamic extremists running around and pickup trucks with their black banners. in this country here, we have people in pickup trucks and guns with banners, don't tread on me and the confederate flag. to me, they are both the same. host: thank you. senator tim scott sent out this tweet. a senseless tragedy in a place of worship, where we come together to laugh and love. it is despicable.

senator scott arranged for this picture here, for a prayer circle for members of congress. a bipartisan group of members of the house and senate got together on the floor and are outside the capital. you can see it there. this was yesterday. barry black lead the prayer circle. they gathered out there. there, you see a representative from south carolina, joe wilson. senator grassley is there as well. there is the back of reverend black, admiral black. that is from capitol hill yesterday. the south carolina democrats sent out this picture of

reverend pinckney's desk in the south carolina legislature. you can see it covered in black. it says we love you senator thank you for your service. caller: i wanted to call and say the shooting has nothing to do with the majority of responsible gun owners. this does happen all over the world. as far as --, it is not something you are born with, it is something -- it is a learned thing. these parents need to wake up and do their job. america needs to wake up. host: were you raised in raleigh, north carolina? caller: no, i was raised in california. host: do you see a difference in racial attitudes? caller: not really.

they are both the same. we and raleigh, the majority are not racially divided. you are a person, first and foremost. the ones that are racist, i do not know where they get it from. it is a learned thing. not many people i run across in north carolina are racist. and state had problems. -- this kid had problems. it is a shame he took it out on anyone. it is a shame he got a gun. i am praying for south carolina. host: is there a legislative solution to this? caller: you have to go through the -- i do not know how he got

a gun. if the police know he was not supposed to have a gun, if he filled out the paperwork and stuff, how did he get that gun? first it was said that his father bought the gun, now it is said he plotted himself. i do not understand what the problem is or how he got the point where he had one in his hand. his mother knew it was not good for him to have one. she took it away from him, from what the news says. he found it and took it back and did this project -- ended this tragic ring with it. host: gene, arcadia, louisiana, democrat. caller: first of the white gentleman that called and said hands up don't shoot was a lie it was not and is not a lie. black men put up there hands in

surrender and they are shot and killed by some police officers. this man is a punk assad, a criminal, a criminal, not a kid. i would like to say, i know who i am. i am a lack american female who has -- i am a black american female who has had to deal with this for years. i am tired of this. host: james in louisiana tweets south carolina has a black gop senator, a kind of gay gop senator and a gop governor of indian descent, but the republicans are neo-confederates? john, what is your view? caller: thank you for taking my

call. the progressive seem to be pushing this division. they cannot allow someone to be judged on their individual merit. host: just talk through your telephone. we are listening. caller: it seems like they try to take the guns out of law-abiding citizens' hands. one person had a gun in that church, a lot less people would have been killed. we need to get rid of gun laws and allow people to conceal carry without a permit and people would be more respectable .

to say only white people are racists, it is offensive. i know plenty of black racists. watch msnbc. they are all racist. i hope people will wake up and realize they are puppets. host: that was john on our republican line. a tweet -- evil has a home in america and is within the right wing of america. we are going to be joined by clarence page. a pulitzer prize winner columnist. we want to show you video. we send out local content vehicles and they bring back historical and literary stories from cities around the country.

in two thousand 11, they visited charleston, south carolina. they toured the historical church. >> a charleston man represented the majority of the population here. for his actions, in an effort to organize a conspiracy, spoke to the aspirations of african people. he was a member of what was known as the african church of charleston. it was an independent african-american denomination in the city, affiliated with the

african methodist the piscopo church, that had been founded in philadelphia in 1816. this is a significant development and a significant point in this group because the black charles stoning ends -- black charlestonians were attempting to run their own affairs in the midst of a slaveholding society. that church, its leaders the members came in for persecution. the leaders were arrested. the church was temporarily closed down. we think it was probably the persecution of this church as well as his personal

dissatisfaction with his inability to enjoy all of the full fruits of freedom in a slaveholding society and his inability to obtain freedom for his children. he was not able to purchase their freedom. it may have been the convergence of those factors that led him to organize a conspiracy of slaves in 1822. let me tell you about the plan. it was to organize slaves in the city of charleston and for them to arm themselves. set fire strategically to a number of locations around the city. then to call and slaves from the surrounding area to occupy the city. word would leak out. there were informants. slaves who informed on the conspiracy.

others were arrested and would be tried. these accusations virtually always lead to a conviction and execution. in the summer of 1822, denmark maisie, along with 34 others, were executed by hanging on the outskirts of city. 37 others were convicted of participating in the conspiracy. today we are standing in front of the church in downtown charleston, calhoun street. this church is important because of the connection to denmark maisie. the original builder for this church in 1865 was denmark macy

ise's son. they comprise the nucleus of this congregation and this place of worship when the african church, the ame church was in effect and was reestablished in charleston in 18 tuesday five. -- in 1865. host: let's try this. clarence page, chicago tribune your take on what happened. guest: i think president obama expressed the sense of deja vu all over again, to use yogi bear. -- a yogi berra line.

we have gone through this so may times and we get very wary about it. president obama was struck by a because he and his wife knew the pastor of the church. they have been there. that church is a go to place for politicians coming to town or anyone who wants to connect with the black community. there is a frustration on the part of folks in washington who want common sense gun control laws that nothing is going to happen, even after sandy hook and having 20 children and half a dozen adults killed by some loony kid with a gun. if that did not move legislation, what will? there is a sense of gloom and despair. i look at obama and wonder what happened to hope and change eight years ago. it was excitement about the

possibility of progressive change and it seems that hope has evaporated. host: obama seems to give ground on gun control. there was no call for voters to mobilize and express their outrage at the ballot box as obama urged two years ago. no policy recommendation was unveiled. vice president biden had already overseen 23 executive actions aimed at curtailing the proliferation of weapons in the united states. there were no tools left at his disposal. his inability to pass gun-control legislation is a test of america's ability to take care of its children may

rank as his most personal defeat. guest: i was struck how obama almost shrugged saying, maybe someday. he was essentially saying not in this administration. the only way you get things moving especially on something at issue this thing and complex is a cultural change. how do you have a change in the culture without people talking about it, without debating? when you have a situation where a majority of americans say they support a universal background check, this includes a lot of gun owners, who wants guns in the hands of the wrong people? that is a fundamental. when you cannot move legislation around that, there's something wrong with the system. i am not going to call the public stupid. we're just not talking about these things in the right way.

we do not have enough leadership. things are being steered by lobbyists and other forces, not what we like to think of as real democracy. host: is this a gun issue mental health issue, racism issue? guest: it's everything. people look for magic the lips, but it is true. they look for some magic bullet. you look at canada, which has high gun ownership. they do not have many people committing mass murders. we do lead the world in that regard, if you call that leading.

it calls for an open discussion. new york has got a much stronger gun safety law, universal background check, surrounded by -- you cannot buy a gun in chicago, but you can go to another nearby state and get it. that is why you have a difference in the amount of crimes committed with a gun. this is something that requires open discussion and concern. if we say nothing can be done, nothing will be done. host: we will put the numbers up on the screen as we consider -- as we continue our conversation with clarence page.

the first call up comes from ronald, lafayette, louisiana democrat. caller: i have written quite a few books over the years. i believe, make it smaller. you make smaller government, you have less organizations to make sure people that have mental health problems do not get guns. if you have a home, why should you not, if you are mentally stable, have a gun to protect your family. if you want to go hunt, you should be able to do that. they need to inspect who they are giving guns too. i am for gun ownership. people that are mentally stable should have guns. if they are not, we need government that is there.

not like rand paul, seeming to say it is a good ring. if you take away government, they cannot do background checks. if you do not have people investigating people on the internet, threatening to do this or that, and they get a gun or they threaten to do something at a school or these republicans want to send the jobs overseas. they think it is great. you put more stress on the people here and if you look at the newspapers crime has went up. violence has went up because people -- host: ronald we got the page. any response? guest: he packed a lot in there but he makes a good point about the need for government to be able to screen people who want

to own a gun. i'm not in favor of taking everybody's guns away. that's not going to happen. i'm not in favor of the idea of us not having any gun ownership at all. despite what the n.r.a. says that progressives are tout to take everybody -- out to take everybody's guns away. but i think we need universal background checks that was even advocated in the 1910eu990's with no exception. he doesn't hold that position now because he doesn't have to. they have so much of the edge now, they being the gun industry they fund the n.r.a. much more than its members do and for very good reason because they have been able to virtually shut down debate over this issue. host: rand paul spoke yesterday. [video clip]

[video clip] >> you have to have people in government, people who are religious and there's not nearly enough. we have had the shooting this morning in south carolina. what kind of person goes in a church and shoots nine people? there's a sickness in our country country. there's something terribly wrong but it won't be fixed by your government d. is people straying away and not understanding where salvation comes from. and i think that if we understand that we will understand and have better expectations of what we get from our government. host: clarence page, a sickness in america that won't be solved by our government. guest: well, there is a sickness but he says it can't be solved by government what about those who can't afford psychiatric care but need it, who will provide that? that is a thing we have a collective responsibility if we

can't say on one hand we don't need gun safety, we need more mental health but don't fund it. it is mostly state level and county level issue we are talking about here. i don't know of anybody who has adequate funding that doesn't have a waiting list for people who need care. i think we need to talk about public-private partnerships around issues like this. it is too complex for a single one magic button solution. host: we have there tweet. why is daily gang violent especially in your city given a pass by the mainstream media and hrorpb lone wolf shootings bring outrage. guest: that is the kind of thing i have heard from the right that is glib and true. as i said earlier there is another complex issue but there are reasons we have had a surge

of violence the last few years part unintended demolition of high-rise public housing that needed to be demolished but they misjudged where people were going once that was accomplished. and them we wound up with chaos on the street level between rival tkwapbgsgangs. i know the right likes to sound persecuted. that is a very popular thing. everybody wants to claim it. i see no reason why people should feel like the mainstream media such as it is is clamping down discussion and debate on this issue. it is not. host: orlando des moines, iowa independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call and clarence page it is not seeing you on here. usually i see you on the

mcclarin group. guest: the mclaughlin group. caller: yes. i have seen organizations who hate and want to kill all americans but why should they try to kill us if we are hating and hurting each other because of race, religion or sexual orientation. instead of fighting the enemy we turn our guns on each other. as i say that and thank you for taking my call and nice seeing you, clarence. guest: well, i must add to that it is sad that we are turning guns on each other. one of my initial reactions to this horrible tragedy in charleston was we don't need a young white fella to come in to our churches and kill innocent people. we have enough black folks doing this and it is a fact.

this has been a real problem in the black community for a number of years partly a result of the economic and social displacement we have had since the 1950's. adam dunn, back to the trade issue that occupied a lot of time on dispatch and elsewhere in recent days as we discussed our trade relations. that is a major factor in the disruptions that have led to the de-industrialization of chicago parts of baltimore and other cities and comes back to the problems on the streets. one thing we're importing is guns and drugs and that can't go on. host: part of our discussion you were listening on the radio on the way in. guest: i always listen to c-span. gets my heart pumping. host: part of the discussion was about whether this was an act of terrorism. whether this was a hate crime. whether this was just a lone wolf criminal. what is your view?

guest: i like the word terrorism better than hate crime. every crime is a hate crime. it is a serious issue but we don't really have the language that applies the way it should. bub it certainly is a terrorist move move. in young fella apparently, the suspect apparently identified with white supremistacist groups and not neo-nazi but wore the flag of apartheid south africa and road desha and now the ku klux klan and it is a terrorist organization and they terrorized black next and anybody that sympathized with them during the awful days during

reconstruction. and this is true today. why is this young fella, who lived 116 miles from charleston. why did he come down here to there church? i think it is quite obvious this was about a terror attack and essentially like a suicide bomber. he was not going to get away with it. now his young life is thoroughly ruined. why did he do that? some kind of fanaticism that guides the terror of isis and al qaeda. host: this is a call from salisbury, north carolina, democrat. caller: ever since this president was elected he's been disrespect disrespected a lot by blacks. you don't call him president. you call him obama. you add cornell west and tavis smiley and black ministers criticizing him.

i'm 70 and we were poor as dirt but i had a background good enough to get me a weapon and i'm tkpwggoing to carry it. and you can call it whatever you want t. want. it is nothing but terrorism. when a white man does something it is oh, he's deranged, he's mentally ill. they got mentally ill people in other countries and they are not out killing each other. you can set there with them glasses looking like a rat looking through eyes or a frog looking through ice but you have disrespected him instead of helping him to get legislation past. guest: i appreciate jurising my glasses.

i'm not sure what i'm responding to now. he touched on several things. i will just let it rely. host: what about the issue -- this sis we often hear from callers saying this president is the most doesisrespected president in history. guest: i have often thought about that. i covered bill clinton and miller and you have to go -- hillary and you have to go something to beat them. they were accused of murder, drug smuggling and all kinds of things that came up during those years. i think it is a coarsening of our politics now and no matter who is sitting in that spot. but i was surprised by just how vehement the backlash was against barack obama and whether it was because of his race but i was shocked by the backlash against hillary clinton after bill said vote for me and get one free in 1992 a fair lin

knockous statement bush fairly innocuous statement. some with fuming over the notion of the first lady having something to say to the president while he was in office. so emotions are part of politics and we just have to deal with that. i think that i was with president obama on the night of the gridiron dinner and i theuink he has been able to deal with the positives and negatives of the presidency with remarkable grace and he should be proud of that. host: this tweet if south carolina is sorry the only way to prove it to me is take down the flag and treat all people equal. this article from the post and occur remember despite mourning the state house confederate battle flag is at full staff.

guest: there were some compromises made in recent years but nevertheless i think the flag should be treated as an historical electricalrelic. not like it is going on today. i had an elderly virginia gentleman once told me the war between the states didn't under in 1865. that was just intermission and i have found many people that is reality. but the fact is i wrote an essay once for "the news hour" when it came up during john mccain's campaign how much white southern heritage folks and how much black southern folks or african-americans in general have in common. we both live in the past it a large degree and have long memories. i said african-american alzheimer's we forget everything

but the grudges. we remember way back it slavery as if it was last week. and so do a lot of southern heritage folks and apparently the suspect roof was a southern heritage fanatic of the worst kind and i don't think we automatically think that confederate flag moons -- means the person who owns it is a ku klux clansman. i'm a vietnam era veteran and we don't reenact it but people born decades after the civil war still go out of their way to reenact the great battles. there is something in the american spirit awarewe are dealing with that can't be casually dismissed. but black folks see a rebel flag and they cueku klux klan and i'm

talking to fellow americans about there and it is not easy to persuade them otherwise. it is a reality. you don't wave the red cape in front of a bull and don't wave the confederate flag in front of black folks and expect them to clear. caller: good morning, mr. page. first of all i would like to offer my heartfelt condolences to the victims and families in the state of south carolina. it was a horrible action and it always goes back to the gun owners and makes us look bad. what i really want to comment on today is the situation and mr. page mentioned it, talking about gun ownership in comparison with canada and they certainly are well armed up there

there. but they do not have the violence to any comparable level so it makes me believe it is more of a cultural issue. you mentioned the black on black crime that is there. but it seems like not only african-americans but just a certain demographic -- i don't know if you want to say it is under 35 or 25 or whatever it is. it seems like they are disenfranchised to the american experience and i don't think -- touching on gun laws there is a universal background check. it is impossible to buy a firearm without a bound check from any retailer. you can go on line or any pawn store or gun shop and they will not sell you a gun. the only way you can purchase a gun illegally is if you are to contact someone say on craigslist and meet them in the parking lot and they give you a

gun. i own numbers firearms and i have never purchased one like that. my family has numerous firearms and we have never purchased them like that. i have never known anyone to purchase a firearm like that. given the fact we've numerous gun laws that are never enforced and we have these constant repeating career criminals that obtain firearms and using them in crimes and the crimes escalate into violence because away really can't take what happened yesterday as a common occurrence. the media blast them and they are really insignificant compared to crime on a daily basis. somebody goes to rob somebody else. host: we'll leave it there. guest: certainly we have crime on a daily basis unfortunately. it tends to happen in the same

neighborhoods and demographics. a massacre like there is big news because it sis so unusual but it could be more unusual but sadly enough it is remarkably usual the last 20 years with various episodes of people shooting people in churches or the mass murders we have seen in various schools and other public locations, movie theatre. where will it happen next and my question how many more have to die before we get serious about a comprehensive remedy for the situation. because right now we have had a lot of -- we have allowed it to be a local situation and governed by state laws and which is ok except it is so easy to go from one state to another. we are still dealing with this as though we are talking about the 1700's and we are not.

part of the cultural difference is gun ownership is most popular the farther out in the suburbs to rural areas. the more rural areas, like illinois for example you have chicago that has very much pro gun control, pro safety, whereas downstate the folks are more accustomed to guns being part of life for hunting and defense. so it is a kind of a cultural gap we have to deal with in a diverse country. host: there is something i learned and have no memory of, july 1, 1974 martin luther king's mother was killed while playing the organ in church. guest: i remember it very well because i was an assistant city editor and assigned a couple of reporters and photographer to cover it and the young who did

the killing was a young black man from columbus, ohio. i'm a native ohio fpb -- ohioan and i didn't have the history of murders that i have now. but it was the kind of thing a lot of us forget because there are so many bizarre murders away forget them. host: your perspective on this last year in america beginning with ferguson, new york, north charleston what happened had charleston. cleveland, some of the other places we have seen some either violence or police actions, et cetera. guest: what strikes me about all of these is what they have in common is modern media technology. you have cameras everybody has a tv station in their pocket called a smartphone. so you flip it out and you can take video of whatever is going

on and put it on the would be instantly and it can go out to the world. plus, you have twitter. this is the age of the hash tag and hash tags like black lives matter or bring back our girl. instant movements is what i call the flash phb -- mob politics. that is how tea party started and occupy wall street and we have seen there become integral to the whole debate over police conduct conduct. is it something new as far as the episode? the only new thing is the video. look at ferguson that came up earlier, compared it cleveland or new york where you did have video. look how we are still arguing about whether michael brown was an innocent victim or not. but we don't argue about that with the other episodes where

we've video. host: amanda in rockville maryland democrat line. caller: hi. i would like to add that i'm 15 and i was on here 1 1/2 months ago with greta in baltimore. we don't really know the motives of the shooter although probably a guy who got maybe caught up with propaganda on the internet. we don't know. but i have heard a lot of perspectives from college that are simplistic and -- callers that are simplistic and liberal agenda. wanting to push guns. but this is like the united states culture as set by the

media outlets and our own leaders who, you know, they are in the political game and they have to play on emotion and so do demographic factors simplifying things and they don't consider the impact of geography, culture and under underlying societal conflicts that are impacting today's generation. i believe that our country would be better served if we had leaders like loyd feinstein. guest: who host: lloyd blankfein. caller: he doesn't let emotions effect his. he evaded most of the investigators' comments but he did so in a way that was clever and what i'm saying is that we

need people who are impartial, who do not let emotions impact them. who take in all the perspectives and try to put it into one coherent narrative. host: amanda, thank you for calling in and watching. hope we hear from you again in 30 days. any reaction for that young lady? guest: she is right about letting emotions getting in the way of rational thinking. but we are not mr. spock but we are humans but she is hitting on something about the need for cultural change whether we're talking about the gun debate or whatever. we see good examples of the impact of cultural with things like marijuana legalization and gay marriage. a decade ago i think i did say i wouldn't see these in my lifetime but i have been

astounded how things have changed the last 10 years. what seemed like would never happen is part of the landscape and a politician can be put on the defensive if they don't have the right thing to say about those issues. that is because of cultural change. that is where the politicians are trying to catch up with the change in the culture. i saw the same thing around civil life after legislation in the 1960's. conservatives were saying we can't change what is in people's hearts but once you give people permission by law to not discriminate, it is funny how much they rush to show how much they are not racist or sexist. we should not give up too quickly on these issues. host: wild and wonderful tweets if you want to understand the recent history of institutional race racism read the pre-1960 deeds

in your local record room. richard, hollywood, florida, independent, you are on the air. caller: how are you doing, sir? i want to say something. you tphoeknow who i blame for what happened in charles 10? i blame the tea party and republican party and right wingers. this young man said something before he killed those people. he saeudid you are taking counter. it doesn't take a brain scientist to realize where he got that from. the tea party started it when this president walked into office saying that they wanted to take their country back. what is happening is these politicians have family and children and they have people look at tv and when you hear leaders -- i can't imagine how someone like some of these

politicians that same some of the most vile things about there president they have children. if they say that in public i wonder what they say about this president in private. we need to stop kidding around trying to pretend we don't know where this came from. this came from white folks who have gotten mad because this president walked into office and they have been saying all types of hateful things and it is coming home to roost. we have to stop getting on television and saying these hateful -- i'm a gun owner and i'm a concealed weapons carrier but just because i believe that a person that is halfway mental shouldn't have a gun don't mean that i'm against gun rights. just because i say some police officers are not for the good of people don't mean i'm against every police officer. but when it comes to the tea party and right wingers you

can't have a conversation with them because logic means nothing to them. host: richard, before we get mr. page to respond do you carry your gun with you on a regular basis in florida? caller: i carry it with me on a regular basis, yes. host: would you have had it with you wednesday night at bible study? caller: i have carried my gun to church. host: do you think in your mind that you would have reacted to what happened there? caller: because i'm a veteran and i know this, there are some loony people because when you look at media and all this stuff that people say and hate, i carry my gun with me. so you always have to be prepared because you never know. i have four children, six grandchildren and i'm going to protect my family. host: thank you, sir. clarence page. guest: well, an issue he brought

up initially was in regard to the atmosphere established or inflamed by the right wing. i saw the same thing happen in the 1970's inflamed by the left wing with the s.d.s. under ground and underground. everybody in politics has it wear the jacket of the atmosphere set up in certain times. i have heard people on the right and left talk about taking the country back depending on whether they were in power. this is the nature of our political rhetoric. i think that away need to -- we need to tone it down and be more intelligent or we provide more fuel for the rage of folks who are mentally unbalanced. host: from the washington times gun rights supporters call for more concealed carrying in churches. it talks about the case in colorado at the new life church

and where gene assam was a voluntary security guard and killed the shooter prior to the shooter getting in the church because she had a gun with her. what do you think of concealed weapons in church? guest: that is almost the standard response for any of these gun related tragedies, that the gun ownership advocates say what we need is more begins. we saw waufrpb lapierre say that a popular response for a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun but it is not so easy to tell the bad from the good and so much as we come up with scenarios of people defending themselves or the one you mentioned there are many more cases of people who were killed or members of their family killed because of a gun in the

house and had there not been a gun it wouldn't have happened. you can use anecdotes to argue for any side and we feed practical solutions. host: we've it tweet occasions are coming up with all kinds of excuses for there racist thug. why can't they face it and call it what it is, racial hatred. randy iron caller: thank you for taking my call. i appreciate it. are you there? host: we are all listening to you. caller: clans, i have called in three times now, and i have tried to get people to understand that in 2012, we had a poison data system that said that no one over 13 years old have died or overdose for marijuana. back in the late 1960's, we said

that marijuana cause socialistic, coming to stick -- communistic, and narcissistic tendencies. all of that was racial. we didn't want black people living in rural areas. i'm writing a book about this right now. had over 55 cities here in michigan, and 70 cities in illinois that it was illegal to walk around the street after 7:00 and 1970. that is what is all about. white people saying that pot is bad. people like me, you're going to try to tell me that taking your oxycontin and 248 thousand people died per year from that that is what you want me to take. i have a new home in wisconsin -- host: we will leave it there. it is a little bit off. anything you want to respond to there?

guest: 1970 was about the time that the black panthers to their weapons out to an assembly and caused a ruckus. you have these people walking into legislator with their weapons. that is when governor ronald reagan push for gun control. that was the first big push for gun control combat the tell end of the 1960's, when black folks have them, and they happen to be black panthers did that is one of the interesting ironies of this whole debate. host: jerry, independent line. caller: i am a gun rights advocate. i've over 70 years old. i wish people would google the norway massacre, 2011. a young man went to an island that was a gun free island in

norway, where there was a young political party c camp, summer camp. he proceeded to kill almost 90 young boys. before going to the island, he killed eight people getting to the island. he also wounded nearly 200. there was 600 boys on this island. this was carried on ap. if you google it, you will see 50 or 75 articles, associated press articles, covering this killer. almost none were carried in the united states. guest: that's not true. caller: president obama says this does not happen outside the united states. he is smoking something. host: clarence page? guest: that is not true.

it was very well covered, thank you very much. there's also a book out. i can't recall the author and title, but very good book. what intrigued me was that he put his manifesto online. it was like 1500 pages. i read through the whole thing. if i can read through the obamacare law, i can do this. it was a pretty quick read because it was mostly reprints and rewrites of american authors. his rage was fueled by easily available propaganda on the web that he was able to obtain easily enough. most of it came from the united states. there is, mostly right-wing writers, some of whom were

anti-diversity racial purity writers, some as benign as my friend pat buchanan was quoted in this piece. these are legitimate issues for debate -- multiculturalism diversity, etc., but the fact is that we are a shrinking globe. the internet does allow for actions like this to be fields. the bigger question is how he got hold of the heavy weapon that he got a hold of, which are banned in norway. he was able to do it anyway. this is a problem that is really international. host: tony is in california. democrats line. go ahead. caller: hi, mr. page. i have always loved you. guest: i love you too. caller: i am from chicago. i have followed you a lot.

i like your writings. i like what i see on tv. it is like i am so glad to see you now. it is amazing. i think it is amazing how people always try to justify when a caucasian person goes off on a killing spree as mental illness. but when a black person goes off on a killing spree, it is a thug. when a brown person -- a terrorist. i think obama has nothing to do with this guy's ideology. i think people need to stop incorporating obama's ideals into what these people are doing. these people have been around for like years and years. starting from way back with the ku klux klan. like you said, in the black panther party, how ronald reagan saw that we were arming

ourselves, and decided ok, gun laws are not good, let's strike the gun law. then you have the nra people that say it is great. then you have a young guy like this, going into a church shooting these people out. you have sandy hook. columbine. every serial killer in america has been of caucasian background. i think people need to stop making excuses and call it what it is. thank you so much. i love you. guest: thank you. i appreciate you too. i have to point out that not all feel are closed -- serial killers are white. i think specifically of the d.c. sniper. two black fellows terrorize the washington, d.c. vicinity a few years ago. a lot of us going without

prejudice thought it must be a white guy, because black folks are not serial killers. we were wrong, it turned out. host: mike is in akron, ohio. caller: hello, nice to talk to you. we spoke before. i'm from kent state. guest: you are forgiven, it's ok. caller: yes. anyway, this shooting is a lot like newtown, connecticut. we all want for the families of the victims. the families can mourn for months, weeks, years, it can take as long as it needs. i'm fortunate, my morning only lasted for a few hours. for those who do not know these people personally, it takes political action. the nra, it turns out, does not support gun orders.

they don't even support the second amendment. they stand for gun manufacturers. if you are careful with your gun, and it misfires, you can't blame the gun manufacturer. the nra used to be prounion. they started with union generals at the end of the civil war. they were proud to be prounion. they have now turned -- they are not for gun owners, therefore gun manufacturers. for those who have not lost loved ones in the shootings, we can mourn for a few hours, but that we need to pick up the cross for those who really need to mourn, the families of the victims. guest: interesting, the history of the nra. i have had a number of people say i should not call the end of

the acp t -- the naacp the oldest civil rights organization the nra is older. they started as a gun safety organization. especially after john f. kennedy was assassinated -- they clamp down on gun ownership and gun access. that was when nra's shifted and became much more defensive as a pro ownership group opposeding restrictions and regulations. host: according to fox eight, dylann roof confesses to killing benign people in the church, and wanted to start a "race mowar." attrition willems -- patricia

williams has an op-ed this morning and "the new york times." she writes that we must resist the comfortable fiction that whatever racial turmoil exists as i will swear, genteel charleston is a place of kong. the killing of walter scott showed otherwise. we must do more than a knowledge the fact that for all of our legal advances, i can walk into any number of charleston's finest restaurants and not see anyone who looks like me. that means committing ourselves as the black community to fixing the systemic barriers and education, employment, housing to black upward mobility that makes it virtually impossible for poor african-american children to ever catch up to their white counterparts. guest: i read that piece. it is very powerful. one footnote that i would add -- about walking into rest of the not see anyone who looks like

you -- that happens a bc, new york, chicago. we don't talk about is the class element to the whole racial and cultural war that we see going on in parts of america. there is much more integration of months college educated classes -- the yuppies and hipsters -- they are reviving our cities and running into culture clashes on the gentrification issue. i tend to see, even among the part of black folks, who separate themselves into haves and have-nots. i think what really shocked people about this church catastrophe is that it happened in a church. these are god tearing folks -- god bearing folks. if you are not safe there, where? people are so crazy to mass

murder there -- it took that to shake us up. otherwise, we send to lapse into denial and say that those drug wars and getting wars, it's a shame, but that is not my part of town. we are all in the same part of town now. host: warren, you are on with clarence page. caller: good morning, thank you. i think you are barking up the wrong tree. i don't think it has anything to do guns. good people will not hurt anyone with guns. it is drugs. this country is so affected by drugs, it is terrible. young people adults. colorado says that it affects the learning on the young people. if you have not got a purpose to take drugs, why are all these people on drugs. it is right here in my community. just affected with drugs.

that is the problem. and, the whole life of these kids growing up. i grew up with 10 in our family, and my mother and father were there all the time. be all turned out good. drugs of the big problem. guest: we have to separate causes and symptoms. i think the drug epidemic is in many ways indirectly result of economic dislocation. so many distressed areas have expense over the last 30-40 years. also, misplaced john policies. why has vermont become the biggest heroin state per capita of all places? a lot of it goes back to oxycodone in the 1990's. so many people became addicted to it, and they later discovered

the same effect with heroin, and cheaper. the heroine problem has expanded greatly. these problems don't happen in a vacuum. they are related to other factors. if we don't take a holistic approach we will take care of one part of the starfish, while it is growing tentacles on other side. host: client is in san antonio -- clyde is in senatorial, independent line. caller: i think the contemporary context is it appropriate to examine any of the problems that people that like to call themselves white have, and the ones who call themselves blackouts. i think it is more asian than that. the man in front of you refer to himself the other day as other white guy. the question is -- what does

white really need to him or anybody else? we all know about the middle passage. what we don't talk about is the ice age inheritance. some of the africans, based on archaeological and at the particle -- anthropological evidence won't own up to. there in lies a lot of the context that should be explored. more recently than that, i don't know if you're familiar with us or not but your adopted state, illinois was examined by todd bogart in the documentary in the 1970's and 1980's where only caucasians were interviewed. they talked about their perceptions based on their fears. so much so that people moved

into the county, and had cornfields in their backyards. i think that if you have any influence with mr. lamb, you would ask that this documentary be aired, if the rights are available to c-span, to talk about what they really fear. generally, that boil down to -- boiled down to cultural annihilation. host: what do you do and antonio? we will never know. clarence page. guest: he touched on a lot there. i think that -- he mentioned tom brokaw only talking to whites in that documentary. it reminds me of charles murray's broke a few years ago that only looks at white americans and the rise of poverty, and decline of in

wedlock childbirths, but we would call an underclass, if we talked about black folks. this is happened since the 1950's as a result of economic dislocation and you cannot get any income investment if you have any schooling beyond high school. i have praised that book. charles murray has redeemed himself, in my view. we have been on stage a couple times talking and debating this topic. this get that what i have been saying all along. we focus on race because it is so visibly obvious. the real conflict in our society's class oriented and shrinking opportunities for too many people, the kinds of opportunities that we had back in the 1950's and 1960's. it was much easier to get into

college when tuition was $700, when i started at ohio university. it is over $13,000 now. this makes a big difference because the topic is not as sexy as race. host: where in ohio did you grow up? guest: i was born in dayton, and grew up in john boehner's district. when he got his first paycheck and saw the taxes that were coming out of it, he became a republican. when i got my first paycheck at the steel mill, my dad said, that is for your social security, i became a democrat. it is funny how it by forks out. host: what did your parents do? guest: my mother was a coke and my father was a factory worker. host: 65 euros, you have been

around, lived in the midwest etc. how has the issue of race relations, in your view, changed? in your personal life over the years -- 60 some years? guest: i have been just delighted with the progress we have made over the years. i one of those folks grandfather, barack obama and family. i also don't have a delusions that we entered into a utopia. i knew after election day, we were going to enter into the same problems that we had before. my son, you can talk to him, he is 26 years old, and he is very gloomy about how things that happen. he volunteered for obama in 2008, and guantanamo is still open. i was one of his major issues.

he and his friends are much more frustrated by the political process. it is the job of young people to be impatient, and for us older folks to appreciate more what we have. host: would you say your son -- does he understand the issues that you went through in the 1960 the 1970's? guest: oh yeah. when he was 14, for history day he went out with his video camera and computer, and put together a 50 minute documentary on the civil rights movement. he can do that with today's technology. he, of course, like all young people, thinks he knows everything now.

as i say, he is disappointed and frustrated by the political process, all of the sausage making on capitol hill. why don't things get done? vital to give obama a chance? why don't they give peace a chance? i think today's young folks -- i have been really pleased. i look at the younger journalism majors. ifo site for them -- i feel sorry for them, but they are building a new world. the world of newspapers and typewriters is my era. nl geniuses when it comes to multimedia ingenuity and skills. i am very excited. i look forward to each day on this article so that i can watch these fascinating changes going on. host: in your coverage of politics over the years, did you ever attend or go to emmanuel ame in charleston, or did you ever meet reverend pinckney?

guest: not need. he was a kid. he is a decade younger than obama. he is really the hope of the future, if you will. to see him coming down at this young age is doubly, triply tragic. there are a lot of young people like him forming the new leadership of the century. we need to give them more of a chance, and not let all of us old grandstand is take all of the attention. host: fred to send, democrats have been working on racism and poverty for 50 plus years, i think they have failed, don't vote for democrats. guest: i would love to hear all the progress that

republicans have made. host: frank, go ahead with your comment or question. caller: i have to agree with you. what the republicans are doing -- absolutely nothing. mr. page, we have some of your articles done herewn here. the question would ask you is do you think the right wing radio station -- especially foxnews -- set up an atmosphere for this kind of hatred. they portray black people as savages muslim people as terrorists, gays are going to hell. they set up this hatred atmosphere. what do you think about that? guest: i think you're right to a degree.

you can say this about a lot of ideologically driven you on the right and left. please, go ahead and watch fox news. i have a number of friends over there who are really superb journalists in their own way. don't pay too much attention to the ideologues over there. the people who they criticize of being their critics, check them out on the other side and see where these charges are made. i think all of us in the media need to give as good as we get or the other way around when it comes to criticism and abuse. this is part of the game that we all need to be held accountable regardless of which media we work in. i am delighted on a whole by the first amendment, secondly, the abundance of media that we have and the choices that people have. i urge you -- news consumers --

do not lock themselves into one newspaper or tv channel, but to explore. there is a potpourri of information. we need to enjoy all of it. host: just a few minutes with i guess, clarence page. george's is in florida. caller: thank you clarence, for seeking truth. i think you have done that throughout your career. my great-grandfather was had a newspaper. he took on the klan 110 years ago. they are not the tea party people. i know a lot of tea party people, and have never heard hatred out of them. to stop these killings, we need to do three things. you are talking about the morality of making sure that people have jobs. i for you agree with that, and

we should also teach christian values. the second thing, i think it is more sane people have guns, we will have less problems. the third is almost never talked about. animal planet has a series -- of course, it is cable tv -- they have a series called "monsters within me. go i suggest you watch that. something's can start as the flu, and it develops in the brain. i've read medical journal articles as a team. then, they were try to do an about its. -- antibiotics. host: we're getting deep in the

weeds here, i think mr. page understands where you're headed. guest: i appreciate the call. when he talks about antibiotics -- this is out of my main realm but i have been intrigued on how doctors have been advised to cut down on antibiotics, because we're using too many of them, and it is leading to super viruses that are resistant to antibiotics. let me just say that the research continues. host: let's tie this back into gun laws. we have discussed this when other tragedies have happened. whether or not there should be -- where that line should be john for buying -- should be drawn for buying a gun with mental illness. guest: there should be universal background checks, without

exceptions. if i were a gun owner now -- i am an army veteran. i would say, i'm safe, but what about the other guy. that is what bothers people, and why folks are so frightened about the proliferation of guns. folks get them who they should not. this varies from state to state. also, as far as the federal law -- new york has a trust usus. everyone who wants a gun will be interviewed. does this work? i know that new york city come over the last 20 years, for a number of different reasons has

had a very sharp decline in crime. new york city, for pete's sake. i think we need to go to places like new york with some controls are working, where gun safety laws are working, and replicate what they're doing elsewhere. host: clarence page. "chicago tribune" columnist and author of his most recent book, "culture warrior." guest: worrier. host: i accused you of being with the "chicago times." i apologize. guest: i will forgive you. a lot of people say, what culture are you worried about? after what happened in charleston this me, you have an idea of what i'm talking about. when you talk about the southern

heritage guy, or whatever you call it. the kinds of cultural gaps that we have in this country are the bigger problem than the racial problem, which is so visible. host: clarence page of the "chicago tribune," he was on booktv live. you can go to booktv and type in his name, and see him with david axelrod. guest: my former intern, they were axelrod. -- david axelrod. host: thank you for being on. we will continue this conversation. if you are on the line, you can go ahead and stay there. it will be just a few minutes. you can dial-in, if you like, to continue talking about what happened in charleston on wednesday. they are the numbers on the screen. everything that happened happened at the emmanuel ame church in downtown charleston. c-span visited that church and learned about its history in 2011.

here is a piece from our american history tv channel. [video clip] >> he was a quintessential charleston man because he represented the majority of the population here, which was a black population and an enslaved population and, through his actions, in an effort to organize conspiracy, spoke to the aspiration of african-american people in the city and state, and indeed throughout the south, in the early 19th-century. he was a member of what was then known as the african church in charleston. the african church in charleston was an independent african-american denomination in the city affiliated with the ame church, or african methodist episcopal church that had been founded insult of the -- in

philadelphia in 1816. this is a significant development, and a significant point in history because the black child stoning to created this church and are affiliated with the ame church in philadelphia, where essentially affiliating with an abolitionist church, and attempting to run their own affairs and a slaveholding society. as you might imagine, that african church, its leaders, and the members came in for persecution, the leaders were arrested, the church was temporarily closed down on more than one occasion. we think that it was probably the persecution of this church, as well as his personal the satisfaction with his inability to enjoy all of the fruits of

freedom in a slaveholding society as a free black. and, has his and inability to obtain freedom for his children, he was unable to purchase their freedom. it may have been the convergence of all of these factors that led him to organize a conspiracy of flurries in 1822. let me tell you about the plan. the plan was to organize slaves in the city of charleston, and for them to arm themselves, set pfister dictate the -- set fire strategically to a number of locations throughout the city, and call in slaves from the surrounding area to occupy the city. as it turned out, word with the gout, -- word would week leak out.

denmark and others were arrested, and they would be tried. trials on because of accusations virtually almost always led to a conviction and execution. in the summer of 1822, denmark maisie, along with 32 others were executed by hanging on the outskirts of the city. 37 other people were convicted of participating in the conspiracy in one way or another. today, we are standing right in front of emmanuel ame church, in downtown charleston on calhoun street. this church is symbolically and substantially important due to its connection with denmark maisie. the builder of this church with denmark maisie's son, and the members of the church comprise

the nucleus of this congregation for and for this place of worship. when the church was in effect reestablish, and reorganized in the city of charleston in 1865. >> "washington journal" continues. host: that was a look from american history tv, which is every week and on c-span 3, 40 eight hours of american history at the emmanuel ame church in charleston. we will put the numbers up on the screen. if you l would like to participate in a conversation about what happened in south carolina. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 745-8002 for independents. a fourth line this morning set aside if you live in shelti, south carolina, we want to hear from you as well. the president spoke about this issue yesterday. here is a little more of what he had to say. [video clip]

president obama: there's something particularly heartbreaking about death happening in a place in which we seek solace, and peace. in a place of worship. mother emmanuel is in fact more than a church. this is a place of worship that was founded by african-american seeking liberty. this is a church that was e burnt to the ground because of worshipers worked to end slavery. when there were laws banning all black church gatherings, they conducted services in secret. when there was a nonviolent movement to bring our country closer in line with our highest ideals, some of our brightest leaders spoke and but marches -- led marches from this church's

steps. this is a favorite place in the history of charleston, and in the history of america. host: leynn in new york. let's hear what you have to say this morning. caller: good morning. it was a long way, but worth it. host: thank you for waiting. caller: i have a grandmother -- we are irish in new york. my son married in chinese girl. my granddaughter, five years old, was watching the tv with me the other day, and she said grandma, why do they call them and black? i said litly, you just as something that i have started to wonder about. i get is want to do find someone as white, and really want to define someone as black. i thought, why is she saying this? she is biracial, but she with no

mental of someone calling her black -- no mantle of someone calling her black. these labels set the stage. it is unnecessary. i think we should all try to say, he is from the south, or -- i noticed, clarence page use african-american what he was talking about a senator, but if he talked about the problems, he said the black people. i think that is a genesis. at five euros, who had nothing but the shock of, he was not black, she said. i looked at her head and mine, and said, i think you are right. i said, i want to write a letter, this has to stop. we should never do define someone as black. host: this is cindy in illinois republican. caller: i think we are not

getting to the brew this problem. i am a special ed teacher and had all kinds of racist and colors of children. they were violent because their homes were violent and taught them wrong. i think the problem is the home. my son is an aid in a predominantly black school. one of the worst came up to him and said -- he is why, obviously -- and we came up and said, i wish you were my dad. i think the problem is that we need to develop secure its. i think we need to focus on education. instead of acting -- saying that black people are victims or all white people are horrible, i think we need to get into the schools and pay mentors to go in and sit with the kids, and

encourage them so that they don't have to go two guo guns. i'm afraid that obama has divided our country. i'm not racist about that. i just think that we need hearing from the top. another thing -- the gentleman mentioned guns in illinois. my family are farmers and they have guns to hunt. they do not shoot people. we have systemic problems in the black community and champagne and danville, and chicago. i would like to see something focused in their in the schools to help the youth, and the government to give money for people to come in -- black, white, or green -- to help these kids by mentoring them. the systemic problem is the family. when you get a kid that does not have self-esteem because of that, then he goes to drugs, and

the hold of the problem. host: this is "the wall street journal" talking about dylan roon roof and his father. he had the often on with his father in colombia, a family friend said. that is in "the wall street

journal" this morning. amanda is in florida on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: it seems like whenever there is one of these mass murders, there's always a warning beforehand. someone says to a psychiatrist or facebook page or a lot of anger issues come out to friends. maybe there should be a warning system that it is somehow told to authorities, and they can do a background check on the person. you can talk about race and gun control until the cows come home, but the actual solution may be is trying to hone in on these people before anything is done. host: dell is in -- gale is in south carolina, republican line. where is your city? caller: about half an hour away from charleston. host: go ahead please. caller: my, is the government

should start -- my comment is the government should start taking illegal drugs off the streets. we have nothing to monitor these kids that are watching isis behead people. church is over there -- relics being demolished. we are becoming so desensitized. this political correctness is not giving people the opportunity to justify themselves when they are little crazy to begin with, and do something really off-the-wall. i think we should start uniting ourselves. we are all american. we are all work together to help our youth get these drugs off the street and stop blaming people that are just looking to

protect themselves and families from all the crime that is going on in this country. i have never seen anything like this. host: when something like this happens, does this make you want more to have a gun, or get rid of a gun if you have one? caller: it makes me want to protect my loved ones from the things that are going on. we have kids playing this knockout game, hurting elderly people. we are so desensitized. with all of this political correctness, we're giving people the opportunity to say, if you're on a drug or feeling that they are not having the right smack the way they want them to be met, instead of working hard. my kids all got a job when they were 16 years old. they went to mcdonald's, at

wendy's. they knew that nothing was coming easy to them in their life. we have a bunch of children now that link that everything should be headed to them on a silver platter, and if you say anything wrong, their feelings are hurt and it would justify it. i think it is not the legal gun owners. i grew up as a child, and everybody had a gun. no one really killed each other. we didn't even lock our doors. host: this is kristin in florida. on the democrats line. caller: hi, good morning. i really enjoyed all the feedback today. all of my family members were educators. we have a sense of humanity that is missing today in the school system.

we are drugging our youth in the school system. i'm not saying that carelessly. i was part of a team that regularly met -- beating the individual student's. that is such a problem. now, idea with the third-generation of these drugged children who become parents. about the home comment -- yes, the home is in dire need of help and mentors. in the school system, a lot of these needs are met, but the funds are cut. all of these people who need all this money and of course republicans want to say that money for other things. my point is this. when children and families' needs are met, that is food on

the table, shelter, and clothing. we left our doors unlocked -- that woman made a good point but it is deeper. we're all in the same boat. we should love and care about each other. our leaders are not perpetuating that we're altogether. we have passion for one another's lives. the value of life has so diminished because funds archive and those needs are not being met for the families. what else will a child do? they will learn to fight for their food. i really passionate about this. truly passionate. host: did you say that you are a counselor in the schools right now? caller: i just retired. host: thank you. the attorney general of the united states, loretta lynch talked about the shootings yesterday. [video clip] attorney general lynch: my

thoughts and prayers and those of the entire love with the families and loved ones of the victims in charleston. even as we struggle to comprehend this heartbreaking event, i want everyone in charleston, and everyone who has been affected by this tragedy, to know that we will do everything in our power to help heal this community and make a whole again. host: back to your calls. louisa fredericksburg, virginia, republican line. good morning to you. caller: good morning. i really want to talk specifically about what the past comments have been. now, the woman who just called i agreed with her right up until the moment that she said that they are cutting food stamps -- she went into a political thing. i want to tell you from personal experience from my own family -- i am from a family of 17 in the

state of west virginia. i want to tell you about my nieces and nephews. i have a nephew, they wanted to put him on ritalin, nine years ago. because he has a kidney transplant, he could not -- his dad, my brother, told him, no you cannot give my son these kinds of jokes. you can see a world of difference between my nephew and some of his friends that were put on whatever this horrible drug was. they get into all kinds of bad problems. flashing tires, -- slashing tires, vandalism fighting. that is the problem. the problem is not the lack of funds. it is the psychiatrists that are telling people, this is what you need to do to calm people down in the first and second grade.

they're doing all over the country. i have lived all over the country, and i know this has been happening for years and years. i personally think that the woman from florida is right up to a point, but she misses the point. we have no child left behind were kids with problems learning could actually get a one-on-one tutor. the democrats, and i will get a little girl there, because she did, they don't like that. they don't want a one-on-one tutor. they don't want kids to learn because who else will vote for them by the ignorant? that is how i feel about it. host: this is "the new york times" recounting of what happened in the church. it is about two minutes that it would take us to read through this. you might find it interesting.

robert and henderson kentucky. independent line. your reaction? caller: good morning, peter. i am a black man i'm 52. i have been abused by the police, i had my sister murdered by her husband. tragedy has the fault my family. what i have perplexed about is the callers. none of them seem to touch on the issue of race. all of them talk in circles about white people having problems.

they felt to mention the historical issue of racism in america. black people have been murdered, shut and shut down. it is nothing new, but why folks don't want to look at it because it is their people doing this. there is a history of this. i was born in 1962 this is nothing new. they talk about guns, jobs drugs, but they will not mention racism. stop blaming black people for what you guys are doing. racism -- the killing is not our fault. it is not about you being on ritalin, people being pink -- i have not seen anybody that is pink or purple. you say does not color, but yes it is. america is entrenched in racism. the soil of america, it is

soaked with the blood of black people for no other reason then that being black. this man went into a church, and did what he is taught to do from america. when you see constant bashing of black people on fox news, constant labeling of black men as thugs and savages. call it a name. this man has been labeled the range and mental, but the guy who shot two cops in baltimore was called a solid and a hoodlum, -- called a thug, and hoodlum, and he had mental issues. racism is racism. it is the history of america. that is what needs to be dealt with. until you change the thought pattern -- you cannot change people's hearts. until you say the truth about issues, you cannot address them. host: you setup the beginning that you have had issues with

police. what are those issues? caller: i live in henderson kentucky. not too long ago, about five years ago, police pepper sprayed several individuals. i am the vice president of the naacp. i'm friends with the police chief and the mayor. i am from los angeles, and next game -- ex-gang member. the police pepper sprayed us for no reason. it was over 40 people on the fourth of july, and the police pepper sprayed us. when i was 11 years old, the police handcuffed me, and slapped me so hard. i was 11 years old. 1969. they beat my uncle down. the los angeles police department. this goes back. i'm 52. i have lived this. when i hear people say

doesn't matter if you are green or purple -- there are no purple people, there are no green people. that kind of talk is ridiculous. and some of your best friends being black -- that is ignorant. what you have a systemic racism, and until that is dealt with we're never going to change this country. and the future, aimed towards obama, he has received more death threats and all of the presidents combined. it is sad. america is going to hell because of racism. host: this is billy and crockett texas. democrat. caller: good morning. what i would like to say is i definitely agree with the car before me. he actually made my point. what i want to say about america is we can get together, blacks and whites can get together, he

was definitely right. racism is a problem. you can look around and not discuss it, but it is there. it is there, and we all know it. the thing is, among the younger people, i see them coming together. i see a lot of the older people with antiquated ideas of racism telling them it is the way to go. the history of the country shows us that black people did the heavy lifting of america, they built america, when you think of the slaves and all of the free labor that they did. i think we have to live in this country together. we will get together, even though we have pessimistic people that feel like it will be a race war. it will not be a race war. blacks and whites are coming together on younger generational levels. the problem is that older people, not all of them, but a

lot of them, are continuing this delusional thought that somehow my skin is better than other people. until we get over that, that man was correct in wherever he was at -- until we get on that problem, and do with it, and be honest. texas is celebrating june 19 juneteenth, today. it's because a lot to the freedom that we enjoyed because a lot of whites and blacks participated. host: how old are you? caller: little older than the brother that called, but i consider myself young. i will be present for the juneteenth.

if we come together, we can lead to the world. i believe in america. god bless america and thank you for c-span. host: one more question. you are calling from texas. it is known as a gun rights state. are you a gun owner? caller: i have access to guns but i'm not a hunter or anything like that. i grew up in houston and moved to crockett. guns are all over texas. i see reasons for them. a lot of people live out in rural areas and they need guns. to start talking about guns is not a bad thing. we don't need guns for everybody. i'm not against guns, guns and serve a purpose, but we need to regulate who is getting guns.

everyone has to live in america together. host: good luck with your basketball game. he mentioned in juneteenth. this is an article on wikipedia. this is the 150th anniversary of juneteenth today. independent line. caller: i remember in the

1980's, they started mainstreaming the end of unwa style of rep. the youth wanted to take on that kind of attitude. the skinheads started taking on -- they started popping up. it seems like that whole jon runyan -- john genre shop america into the bad boy syndrome. you have jerry springer showing the bad attitudes of people. hey, we kind of like that bad boy attitude. you see what that has generated. you can even look at justin bieber. i was looking at the beginning

they were saying heated to be edgier. now, everybody's putting them down. -- saying he needed it to be edgier. now, everybody's putting him down. when you start ling around with -- fooling around with having an attitude or swagger, that's something you don't multiple with. it has its own demise. host: how would you describe race relations in stockton california? it's been hit economically. caller: from what i see, it's really not that bad. you have elements -- i really don't see a big issue, but it's there. but it never really seen it blow up in something nasty as far as

people wanting to burn down the city or anything like that. different races try to get along for the most part pretty good here. host: john in stockton. big guns tweets in -- that's the question asked their. robert in florida. republican line. good morning to you. caller: good morning, sir. i would like to say that what happened at the church in south carolina was a horrible, horrible -- i don't even think it's a crime. it's worse than a crime. it was evil. personified. the personification of evil. that person, the creature, the coward who perpetrated this was

filled with hate. with racial hate. he's a monster, a horrible thing. this should never happen anywhere. what i would like to say basically, is that my feeling is that this coward, this scrawny pathetic excuse of the hating little monster knew he did not stand a chance going up against his mental imagined enemy without having an advantage. as an advantage, he chose a religious situation. he chose the church, he chose people engaging in worship. this is the lowest of the low. what i would like to say is that my feeling is that this thing preyed upon these innocent

people because he knew they were vulnerable. he knew he would not be met with opposition equal to his. he used a gun in a situation where he was with people he knew would be unarmed. i would like to just say that there are people in many situations who are unarmed and who are vulnerable. people in schools and churches and other zones that are no gun zones. before we jump to blame the instrument or the tool that this person used -- the same tool he used to commit evil is used by folks to prevent evil. this gun -- the guns are maligned. rightfully so in the hands of a

creature like this. but in the hands of a person saving another person's life -- host: a legislative solution to you -- we talked about whether there is a legislative solution this morning. caller: the legislative solution is, as some of your other colors have stated, there are states with laws that do better screening. there are responsible -- millions of responsible gun owners. they would never use a weapon to hurt anyone. host: again, the legislative solution, if any is? caller: the legislative solution is what we have in place, the federal background check forever every gun purchase and we need to make sure that people who purchase guns do not have a

mental defect. host: robert in northport florida. don in new york. democrat. caller: good morning. i'm a conservative democrat. there is so much being said this morning, it's been such an interesting conversation. one of the topics that has not been brought about, the concept of evil -- the spiritual issues that haven't been addressed. i think this is what's happening. he was obviously deranged and absolutely evil intent against people vulnerable in a church. there is a big schism with race which is sad and pathetic in this day and age.

we have come to far as a nation. there was a caller who mentioned the history of how america was built. all ethnic groups built this country. unfortunately, the stolen people from africa farmed the south. we have the chinese building the railways. we have the other europeans who came in and built up cities and other -- this is why america is what it is today. we are not perfect, but we have come too far to be relegated to having a race war. nobody wants it. it's a spiritual issue because there is such a lack of respect and such a deep embedded sense of rebellion in the culture -- this is what's causing our problems against the police. they are turning around to have community policing where there is more relationship building,

which will help in neighborhoods when you can trust your law enforcement. and when the law enforcement knows who was in the neighborhood. a few colors back mentioned the root -- poor family dynamics. what you had read was very key. this boy who was sick, evil came from a relatively good family, even though he had an involved father -- that's another issue. men need to get back into the home. that's a problem in our urban areas with single parenting and poverty. there are so many issues to address. host: we will leave it there. you put a lot on the table. joseph in van nuys, california. independent. caller: good morning.

this is my one minute of fame on c-span. host: welcome. caller: i have several different slants on all this because i miss confused as anyone else that has called so far. i'm an immigrant -- i came here from france after world war ii. i'm 81 now. i've been watching a lot of stuff in my life and i'm confused as everybody else. this issue in charleston has different facets to it. religion could be one. guns could be another. this 21-year-old -- remember how stupid we were at 21 compared to now? it's a very confusing situation and religion, the roots of this killing -- why did he pick a

church? he could have hit a school or marketplace, a theater. all these places have been hit by different individuals. i'm as confused as everybody else. plus, guns -- we have 40 wars going on around this planet. it doesn't seem to want to stop. it just gets worse. 9 people killed -- you know what? there's killings going on all over the world all the time and nobody can keep track of it because there's so many people forget the next day. host: this is senator tim scott republican from south carolina, a couple of tweets --

that is senator scott's tweets. the hill is reporting that obama called south carolina lawmakers to offer condolences, talked with governor haley and senators graham and scott who were both back in charleston. mickey in vineland, new jersey. . -- independent line. caller: i'm very impressed with most of the callers today. they are very knowledgeable. the comment i have to say is, you can't legislate morality. a lot of the problem -- our schools have been teaching tolerance that no matter what somebody does, you have to tolerate it. to me, that's wrong. you have to teach the difference

between good and evil. teach kids that hurting someone is evil. hurting someone is wrong. my father was in world war ii. he fought at normandy, the battle of the bulge and walked into a concentration camp in germany. i remember him telling me, he never realized how terribly human beings can treat another human being until he worked -- walked in that concentration camp. the thing that keeps me from being prejudiced, i grew up in the 1960's. in 1968, we had race riots. i went to an all-white school in grammar school and then went to a predominantly black school and high school. when i got to high school, these

guys did not like me. they kept coming after me. i hate to use labels, but these were black folks coming after me. what stopped me from being prejudiced was the two black men that stood next to me. and stop them. you've got to stand up for other people. you cannot sit back and watch somebody teach hate. host: thank you for calling in. kathy in west palm in florida. republican line. west palm beach. caller: this is kathy. host: we are listening. caller: i'm really from miami. in miami, most of us are from

the island. we have a good cultural mix area. they need to start teaching kids in school from the beginning that this country does not belong to the caucasian men. they came in and took it from the native americans and they keep forgetting that. they keep saying their country. they need to remind them that this country does not belong to them. we keep forgetting about this. it was taken from the native americans and we were brought over here. if you are going to teach them hate, teach them the truth. the truth about the situation. host: kathy in west palm beach. rand paul spoke at the faith and freedom coalition in washington

and he addressed the shootings in south carolina. [video clip] >> and needs to be a combination of religious people, people in government who are religious pastors -- and needs to be a combination of all of the above and there is not nearly enough. we had the shooting this morning in south carolina. what kind of person goes in a church and shoots nine people? there is a sickness in our country, something terribly wrong, but it isn't going to be fixed by your government. its people straying away, people not understanding where salvation comes from. if we understand that, we will have better expectations. host: next call is tony in columbia, illinois. democrat. we are talking about the south carolina church shootings. caller: thank you for c-span.

i just wanted to say something about -- i keep hearing about this was a random act by a crazy person. i don't think that is true. there's a lot of that hate in this country. we've got a guy in my neighborhood who has the american flag, the tea party flag and the nazi eagle flags. he has a cannon in his front yard pointed into the street. every time i go by there, i think to myself, how long will it be before the sky does something that's -- this guy does something nuts? this boy's friend says he is a racist and estimates his dad give him a gun, he started killing people. you have to get these guys before they do this stuff. start recognizing the people who may do these things and stop them.

that's all i have to say. host: is this somebody you know or somebody's house you drive by? tony is gone. a couple of tweets -- john in north carolina. two more.

finally, one more from john in nc. derek in pensacola, florida. independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. what i wanted to say is, i heard it. -- heard a few people say -- how can he be shocked when he goes to not see germany -- nazi germany when they were hanging people in the south? but you were shocked when they treated white people in europe that way. no one is saying that this was an assassination. he went in and asked for that

state senator and shot him first. this is an assassination, not just -- this was a direct assassination of a state senator. host: sharon in silver spring maryland. another democrat in the suburbs. caller: good morning. everything that i've been hearing this morning, it's been quite a lot. to sum everything up i have to give most of the people some credit because they were able to call in and speak truth to power. the whole thing is, it's like trying to beat around the bush and make so many excuses -- i

was born here and my mother is -- it's like we've taken and made so many excuses. i heard stuff about marijuana. i'm hearing stuff about mental illness. that gets me right there when they keep saying mental illness. i have a brother that is mentally ill. it's like everything that happens, especially when it comes to when a white person do it, everything else, mental illness, but they don't want to call it what it is. it's a hate crime it's racism it's terrorism. when a white person go do it -- speak truth to power. another opportunity when one

lady said her granddaughter was watching on tv -- i can't say the exact word, but the granddaughter said something like what color was he and the grandmother said everything else -- that was her opportunity to speak truth to power. even if she had said he is black or african-american, what was so wrong with that? you have to start from the kids when they are young. when will you start speaking the truth to them? they need to know the truth. people calling around and speaking and sang everything else they are supposed to say. host: thank you very much. francis is a republican in connecticut. what is your view? caller: thank you. first of all, my view is --

before i give you what i think is wrong, why is it when there is a tornado, some disaster nobody cares whether they are white, black -- they are there to spend their time digging for some light and nobody cares whether they are white or black. what is happening in the world today is not just in america it's all over. as far as i know, there are only four countries -- clarence page and said they were killed in a church. what is the worst place anybody can be killed? what is the worst place that a child can be killed? in the mother's womb. that is done by whites black and no matter who you are. as long as we are against god

we will never have peace. host: thank you very much. dan in virginia beach. democrat. caller: i've been listening off and on all morning. i'm a 71-year-old black american, born in mississippi and raised in memphis. i was living in memphis when dr. king was assassinated there. we marched with sanitation workers there. what scares me is the hatred that this young person learned in 21 years. i've seen hatred -- in mississippi, you knew how to deal with it. we knew who not to mess with.

but this hatred that this young man had learned in 21 years and then his dad -- gave him a gun for his 21st birthday -- he heard this hatred around his house. taking my country back. you are taking our women and all of this. this was not born. this was taught. that's what scares me. i'm afraid there is more out there doing the same thing. people have to think about what they are saying around these kids who listen to people like that. that's the problem. we've got to get this crazy talk under control. it's wrong. that's all i wanted to say. host: when were you in memphis?

really there in april of 1968 or march of 1968? caller: when dr. king was killed? i was home -- i lived maybe three miles from the hotel. iran down there -- i ran down there, down main street. they had roped it off and would not let us down where dr. king was. i was there the night that it happened. i've never seen my city like that. they put a curfew on. the sad thing about it, if you worked at a company, you

had to get a letter from the white man to go home after you got off work if you were working past 7:00. host: because of curfew. caller: you would go out in east memphis with no curfew and south memphis, you had to be off the street. you cannot sit on your front porch. we have to fight this racism. i've known a lot of people who marched with us. they taught hatred. people have to watch what they say. host: dan in virginia beach. thank you very much. i want to thank everybody for calling in this morning. the king center sent out a tweet of dr. king at the ame church.

there is dr. king preaching at emmanuel ame. every weekend, 48 hours of books and 48 hours of american history on c-span 2 and 3. this weekend, 48 hours of books on book tv on c-span2. it will be live from the fdr reading festival on saturday. you can get the full schedule on book tv.org. an american history tv on c-span3. go to www.c-span.org and look up american history tv and get the entire 48 hours of history schedule as well. thank you for joining us this morning on "the washington journal." ♪