occurred in these parts. this is a much more subtle issue that takes many, many factors over many, many years and sometimes in certain vehicles, sometimes in one vehicle it will perfect norm perfectly well. the same part in another vehicle and the same exact area will have issues. so there are a number of things we don't understand. but that's why we felt it was time to act and get the parts out of the field so we could continue this analysis of the parts. senator blumenthal: you're continuing to use ammonium nitrate but with a different design? mr. kennedy: we have many designs that use phased stabilized ammonium nitrate. there are, of the six that are involved in this, most are out -- five of the six are out of production. there is another one that will be out shortly. the ones involved in this particular issue, in these particular issues and recalls are not in production any longer.

senator blumenthal: looking forward, are you replacing the bat wing propellants or inflators out there with ammonium nitrate? mr. kennedy: it's a completely different design, propellant design, some still use phased stabilized ammonium nitrate. we are in may 50% of the inflator kits that we sent included inflators from our competitors. by the time we get to december 70% are estimated to be without side inflators. so we are -- most of the replacements we are having are alternative propellant designs. even the ones that aren't are using later versions of ammonium nitrate for the most part. senator blumenthal: have you tested these designs? mr. kennedy: yes, we have. senator blumenthal: how vigorously? mr. kennedy: very vigorously. senator blumenthal: have they shown signs of moisture? mr. kennedy: not to my knowledge.

we are continuing to use stabilized ammonium nitrates. senator blumenthal: that's one of the reasons you are going to t.r.w., correct? >> as i stated the path to the t.r.w. inflator is fortuitous it fits the characteristics in our car and provided me the most confidence it would be a permanent solution. senator blumenthal: that's a very genteel and nice way of saying you a safe propellant and so you're going with a company that does not use ammonium nitrate, correct? >> that is accurate. senator blumenthal: mr. kennedy, your company filed for a patent in 2006 that demonstrated the knowledge of moisture's effect on ammonium nitrate, correct?

mr. kennedy: sorry, i'm not involved in the patent. if you give me more information i might be able to comment. senator blumenthal: i'll give you information available to all of us which is that your company explained that moisture could seep into the inflator and might cause the propellant to become more stable. it said that numerous times t filed for a patent back in 2006 that demonstrated it was aware of that problem in that year. correct? mr. kennedy: i'm not familiar with the patent you're referring to. i can tell you that moisture seepage into any inflator is a known issue. moisture with ammonium nitrate is a known issue. that's why we have addressed that in our design and manufacturing processes. senator blumenthal: are you familiar with the chemical known as desiccant?

mr. kennedy: yes, sir. senator blumenthal: at what point did takata begin to add that? mr. kennedy: 2007, 2008. senator blumenthal: the reason it added that was to reduce the effects of moisture in making the ammonium nitrate more unstable? mr. kennedy: there were a number of changes that were made. there was a number of design changes that were made in the x series inflators in that time frame. the propellant formulation was changed. a number of the other components were updated. it's part of what in japan they call it continuous improvement work. constantly looking at ways to improve the parts. in those parts on the passenger side we were able to shrink the size of the inflator by 10 millimeters which saved weight and space in the vehicle. it helped meet cafe requirements and helped our customers meet

their goals of weight reduction and performance improvements. senator blumenthal: continuous improvement? your term? mr. kennedy: yes, sir. senator blumenthal: in japanese sounds like au of minimum for a euphemism for trying to avoid exploding airbags. mr. kennedy: i disagree. it was to improve the product. every manufacturer of every product -- senator blumenthal: how did it improve the product? mr. kennedy: there were a number of changes implemented. desiccant was one of them. it allowed us to make the inflator smaller. it allowed us to make it lighter. those were all things that we are always looking to do. senator blumenthal: isn't it fair to say one of the reasons for that improvement was the

presence of moisture inside the inflator? mr. kennedy: moisture in any inflator is a problem. every inflator has leak path that is allow moisture in. every inflator that's out there. at the end of the day, an inflator is full of holes in order to let gas come out. if there's holes to let gas come out, there's holes to let moisture is--in. senator blumenthal: your new inflators, have they shown evidence of moisture? mr. kennedy: i don't -- i'm not sure if i can answer that completely, senator, because i don't know that we have gotten parts back from the field on these newer ones and looked at that on every one of them. senator blumenthal: i thought your testimony was they have been rigorously testified. mr. kennedy: they have. senator blumenthal: but you don't know whether moisture has been found in them?

mr. kennedy: i don't know the answer to that specific question. senator blumenthal: where i'm going here, mr. kennedy, is that there is a lot of evidence that ammonium nitrate is a root cause and that there may well need to be a recall of the recalls. and continuing problem. g.m. at least redesigned and remanufactured the defective product that caused deaths on the road as a result of the defective ignition switch. but the continued use of ammonium nitrate leads me to believe there may well need to be a recall of the recall parts. mr. kennedy: as part. consent order we agreed to continue to test the remedy parts. we continued all of our efforts internal and external with the consortium with individual o.e.m.'s,

automakers doing their own testing. we have not stopped anything senator, in relation to this issue. we are continuing to look and we are continuing to look everywhere to make sure that we understand this issue. senator blumenthal: i have one more question. two more questions. i have been actively asking a few extra questions because i knew my colleague, senator klobuchar, was going to be here. let me ask, would you commit to supporting a bill that i offered s. 900 that requires used car dealers to repair any outstanding safety recalls prior to selling or leasing them? >> we do support that concept.

right now our honda dealers sell both new cars and used cars, we expect those recalls to be taken care of. there is independent used car dealers. we would like to discuss about the need to ensure the responsibility of the o.e.m. to make sure that repair is completed and who is affecting the repair. most definitely we support the concept. senator blumenthal: i know you reached out to two of the honda owners affected here, but you couldn't contact them because they bought the car used correct? carlos and mr. tran both sigh dyed. mr. schostek: the aspect of the fatalities experienced in our vehicles they were elder models. they tend to change hands through independent used car dealers, and we have not been able to contact the appropriate party. we definitely support the concept. senator blumenthal: thank you.

senator thune: senator klobuchar. senator klobuchar: mr. kennedy last november as evidence emerged that the airbags might be susceptible in regions outside of high humidity climates, i called on an expanded recall in december of last year to respond to nhtsa's recall request letter saying the data and currently available information did not support a nationwide recall. what information did takata have last month that it didn't have earlier that triggered the expanded recall? mr. kennedy: that's a great question. i would be very happy to answer that. we have much, much more test data now than before. we have completed -- i checked last night, as of last night over 57,000 deployments. most of those in the last six months, that have really helped us to understand where these issues are and what is causing them. we don't have definitive root

cause, but also in that time frame, we have had -- we had a two-day meeting at our inflator facility where we brought the nhtsa people in and their experts and we had our third party report to them. it was not filtered by takata at all. we did the same thing with the o.e.m.s affected. we have continued to work with a number of other outside experts. i mentioned earlier penn state university, georgia tech. senator klobuchar: this goes back to 2006. i'm glad you have done this. it seems like such a long period of time. we have heard so many different explanations for the cause of the defect. why the different explanations and why did all of this take this long and nearly 10 years to get done? mr. kennedy: there's been a lot done. there's been a number of recalls that have been issued starting i believe in 2008 was the first one. we have participated and supported multiple recalls in that time frame.

and it was really just on this latest issue that really got started in 2013. end of 2013 was when the first incident outside of previous recall populations occurred. senator klobuchar: now this major recall you have undertaken with a lot of prodding, it will involve a lot of vehicles, how do you prioritize these vehicles? geographically? the age of the vehicle? how are you going to triage this? mr. kennedy: a very good question and one that wisconsin played in the defect information reports. it varies by design somewhat. the driver side ones where we have had the most issues in the field, those are being prioritized based on location. and that would be a location of where they are current originally registered, or ever registered.

some of the other ones are prioritized by age. and as administrator rose kind mentioned in his testimony, that is part of the consent order that we have agreed to. they call it the coordinated remedy. we'll be working with nhtsa and all of the automakers in order to do that prioritization and increase supply to get to the right owners. senator klobuchar: how many supplies are they producing? mr. kennedy: as of a couple days ago we passed five million replacement kits. this month we'll probably close produce close -- senator klobuchar: how many total? mr. kennedy: the total replacement again the numbers are a little elusive, but somewhere in the 32 million range. that's vehicles that were ever manufactured. some of those still -- senator klobuchar: how long do you think they'll do that? mr. kennedy: we'll be at a

million units a month. we have already done five million. that 32 million assumes that actually all of those vehicles are still on the road. we know vehicles that are 15 years old a number of those are not on the road still. it will be somewhat less than that. senator klobuchar: one last question. mr. kunselman, mr. schostek, how many chrysler vehicles and honda vehicles have received replacements? mr. kunselman: on the driver's side we had just shy of 350,000 units that were replaced. we have implemented a recall where we'll replace with a t.r.w. inflator. maybe 1,000 units so far. just released on june 8. senator klobuchar: mr. schostek. mr. schostek: we have replaced nearly two million. senator klobuchar: thank you very much.

senator thune: senator nelson has one question to ask. he'll be back momentarily. let me ask our manufacturers, if your companies or other auto manufacturers are looking into what role if any the vehicle design may have played with regard to persistent high humidity affecting the performance of the airbag inflators, and if so, what have you learned? mr. schostek: you're reporting takata is talking about the vehicle design. mainly on the passenger side not driver side. where this area is grounded. we have not received much information from takata about this vehicle design theory. and when we do, we'll be happy to look into it. but we have not begun a study of our own on that idea.

>> we are not doing our own study on that. we are unaware of takata seeing this trend in the data and asking the i.t.c. if they see more trend based on the parts tested from the field. senator thune: senator nelson. senator nelson: just one quick question. mr. schostek, do you think that rental car companies should be prohibited from leasing vehicles on -- under recall until they are fixed? mr. schostek: i'm aware of s. 2819, the rental car recall act, that would prohibit rental car companies from renting. we are in support of that concept, senator. we support the concept. the young woman who lost her life in southern california was driving a vehicle she -- a honda vehicle she rent interested an

agency in the san diego area. i understand from our business model, we do not sell to fleets. we don't sell to big rental car companies such as hertz, avis, and so forth. they are honda vehicles that end up in rental car inventory. our dealers might sell to one of those large rental car companies. of course the small rental car companies also might buy our vehicle on the used market. we strongly support the concept that they should be fixed before they are rented to a customer. if that had happened in the case of the young woman in southern california, who by the way we notified the auto auction that owned the vehicle before the rental car agency bought it, we also notified the rental car agency, and neither of them took that repair. it's to our everlasting regret that had an impact in this incident. senator thune: thank you senator nelson.

just to point out that the hearing record will remain open for two weeks during which time senators are asked to submit any questions for the record. the witnesses are requested to submit their written answers to the committee as soon as possible. i want to thank our panelists or witnesses here today for your testimony. for your responses. continues to shape the record that we build with regard to this very important issue, which has had life and death consequences for people across this country. we want to make sure we are doing everything we request to get the accountability, provide hopefully the solutions that will prevent this thing from happening again. with that the hearing is adjourned, thanks. \[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015\] \[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org\]

next, live, your calls and comments on washington journal. then, newsmakers with housing development secretary. after that, a house hearing on the office of personnel management data breach. >> i am not one of those who believes in the psychiatric examination of people. i believe that many of the

psychotherapists should be on the couch themselves, let alone the cycle analyzed people i have never met. when i meet people, i do not judge them in terms of whether they have a firm handshake, whether they have eye contact. when i meet people, i listen to what they say. a great deal when they are talking, not much when you talk. >> although richard nixon was self-conscious, he was not self-aware. nixon had a psychiatrist, a guy named dr. hatchback or -- hutschnecker. he later said he was careful not to x and figures analyzing him. his head hurt, his neck hurt, he couldn't sleep. his doctor gave him mild their peak. even though he went to one, he hated psychiatrist. he was always than -- denouncing them. he was afraid, and away, of looking at himself in a realistic way.

he used to write, i don't carry grudges. richard nixon was one of the greatest chip -- greenwich care -- carriers of all time. he could be very on self reflective. that hurt him. >> evan thomas, offer -- author of nixon, a man divided, talks about the inner turmoil's in richard nixon. tonight at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q&a. >> this morning, ezekiel emanuel, former supreme court and health care advisor discusses the recent supreme court decision to uphold subsidies in the aca, and how subsidies have a working overall. >> then, armstrong williams examines the current state of race relations in the u.s..

later, gary seymore talks about the iran nuclear program and negotiations. as always, you can join us on facebook and twitter. washington journal is next. ♪ host: good morning. congress in recess for the july 4 holiday. negotiations continue between secretary of state carrie and iran foreign minister on that country'snuclea -- that country's nuclear capabilities. the greek prime minister calling for nationwide reefer random -- referendum that could decide