then, british prime minister david cameron takes questions from the house of commons. later, a look at the 2016 presidential election and the views of potential voters. ♪ >> this week on "q&a" with don ritchie ray smock on the history of the house and senate. focusing on leaders, characters, and legislation unique to the united states congress. brian: ray smock, you were a historian for 12 years. what do members of the house do when they do not like a member they do not like the way -- and

they do not like the way they perform on the house floor? ray: a lot of things they can do and oftentimes argue on the floor. there is not much they can do in terms of changing the legislation. the house works by numbers more so than the senate. whereas if the majority party pretty much calls the shots of what gets on the floor. so there's only so much you can do on the floor if you do not like somebody. of course, you have the chamber quorum but even if you do not like somebody you are supposed to call them nice things. my distinguished colleague, for example, instead of you rotten s.o.b. but, that is part of parliamentary procedure and parliamentary style. brian: what do they do in the senate? don: well, we are still influenced by thomas jefferson,

who wrote the manual of parliamentary procedure to really cool down the tempers that would be there for any legislative issues. members are not to address each other by name. they are not to criticize another person's state or question their motives, and they are not to read a newspaper while another person is speaking. the senate has a high sense of decorum. i remember senator robert byrd who epitomized the sense of decorah, -- decorum, and when he was mad at somebody, he would pour on the compliments to the point that person was being embarrassed about them. the complete opposite of what he was thinking. he never broke his character of what a senator was supposed to do. brian: we had don ritchie and ray smock to join us. to talk about history of the u.s. house and the u.s. senate. don ritchie retired as the historian and united states

-- of the united states senate. and ray smock retired as the historian in 1995 of the house. he is now at the robert c. byrd center. let's go to this clip of a member of congress no longer alive, out of congress, third time in prison. here is what he used to sound like on the floor. [video clip] >> baseball will eliminate two teams. some surprise. tickets average 50 bucks. a program is $10. popcorn is five dollars and parking is $20 and a hot dog and a beer cost about 10-12 dollars in most stadiums. the umpire said play ball, not monopoly. when a family of four needs a second mortgage to see a baseball game and america, it does not take dr. ruth to explain to major league baseball what has gone wrong! i yield back what is left of

america's great pastime after the greatest world series perhaps in our history. brian: explain jim traficant. [laughter] ray: jim traficant is what you would call a character. he was flamboyant and sarcastic and also for the underdog and in this case in this clip and he is saying baseball costs too much and the average family cannot go see it. he made references to "beam me up." he said that in almost every one of his speeches. these are the one minute speeches where he gets to rant and rave, like all members do, about whatever subject they want to talk about. his reference to "star trek," "beam me up, scottie," he used as his brand when something was

so outrageous to him. he would say, "beam me up scotty ." brian: what kind of discipline do they use for somebody they do not like when somebody uses though floor like this? don: if members break the rules and say something beyond decorum, you can be forced to sit down and not take part in the debates. that is a very rare occasion. in fact, what usually happens is, sometimes we get new senators coming in and especially from the house and they are used to the rough-and-tumble of it all. veteran senators from both parties will often take the junior senators the side and coach them on what a senator is supposed to be like. how a senator supposed to dress and act. and they realize it is an important part of the institution. going back to the 1950's a senator from vermont who came in and he was giving a speech.

ralph flanders. he was giving a speech as a democratic leader at the time made a comment about what a great young promising representative he was going to be. this was a democratic leader saying something nice about a brand-new republican senator. and flanders said he was so taken by this he bowed to berkeley after he finished his speech. when they walked away, berkeley came over and said you do not do that. i was doing something that's part of a tradition, you do not mock the tradition. flanders was very embarrassed. but then he realized he was getting a lesson from a senior member on how to act as a united states senator. and, there is not acculturation process that goes on a. brian: this was from 2010, a member of congress, very controversial, no longer there from new york. let's watch. [video clip]

>> great courage to wait until all members have already spoken and then wrap your arms around the teacher. we see it in us in every day where members say we were all amendment but we are still a no. and then we stand up and only if we had a different process. you would vote yes. you vote in favor of something you think is the right thing. if you think it is the wrong thing, you vote no. we are following up -- i will not yield. the gentleman will not -- gets up and yells to what today people into thinking he is right. he is not going to intimidate people into believing he is right. he is wrong! the gentleman is wrong! it is republicans are wrapping their arms around republicans instead of doing the right thing on behalf of the heroes. it is a shame! a shame! brian: any comments? don: nobody could get more than

-- outraged than anthony weiner. you have to yield if you have the floor. somebody can ask you to yield. it is procedure you supposed to follow. you are addressed the chair and do not really talk to one another. although they do. here, he is in a shouting match. he is mad and he is reeling -- railing against the republicans. he did that fairly regularly. a number of members throughout history have had been more for -- more flamboyant when they have been on the floor. if you are there every day and watching this, you just say, anthony is being himself or jim traficant is being himself.

and sometimes they are funny. sometimes you sort of enjoy the fireworks. it breaks up the monotony of routine business. in the end, it is just not good parliamentary procedure and you do not usually get anywhere with it. don: the house has been a more boisterous. is a bigger body and passions arise. sometimes fights on the floor and all sorts of things. the house also has a mace. the sergeant at arms puts it in the chamber. but, if a commotion should break out, the sergeant lifts up the mason as a symbol of the gritty of the house of representatives to cool things down. there was an occasion when a member was speaking and her time was up and she was ruled to have

to stop. she was so passionate she kept on talking. the chair capped wrapping the gavel. she kept talking. somebody yelled, get the mace. so many new members did not realize what it was and they thought there were told to get a can of mace. that is not it for you they were looking for the sergeant of arms to hold up the mace to show it it is a serious legislative body, and people have to behave. brian: 21 years ago, the following was given. this is senator bob smith from new hampshire. i wonder what each of your comments might be with what he -- when you hear what he had to say then. [video clip] >> this is a very simple underlying commitment and will prohibit to any school system receiving funds under the elementary and secondary education act from implementing any school program that encourages homosexuality.

it merely prevents taxpayer-funded advocacy of the homosexual lifestyle. that is the question here. should federal tax dollars in this bill be spent to advocate and encourage the homosexual lifestyle in the curriculum of public schools in this country? brian: he was in the senate from 1992 until 2003. what is your reaction? don: on the political side of it, they have more ability than the house. the house controls the process of how many members there are. senators through history are able to add an amendment on to anything. in this case, it was an amendment is that has something to do with the bill and in many cases it can be different. it is an issue of changing social perspectives.

before bob smith, it would be jesse helms who would have been introducing very similar types of resolutions. it also suggests how much has changed over time. you cannot imagine a member of the senate today introducing legislation like that. ray: they issue that senator smith was talking about, amazing when you look back at that and think it was 17 years ago and how far we have come on that issue politically, both parties. it is still an issue and the current election, it is hardly an issue it was. it is never going to be framed the way it was and the way he spoke about it in 1998. brian: what is the speech and debate clause? in other words, what can you say on the floor of the senate you cannot say out in the world?

ray: members of congress have the ability to say what they think without being arrested and that goes back to the days of the king and of the parliament. the king could have somebody imprisoned. you have complete freedom to speak. you do not defame anybody or libel anybody but if you put into your newsletter or go on television and say it, as a member of congress, you are liable and you can be sued. we had a case in which a senator of wisconsin used to give the golden fleece award to the person who basically bilked the government for the most amount of money. and he gave it to scientists he thought had done this and identified them on the floor. when he said it on the floor, he was totally free. but, he put in its newsletter. the supreme court said you are liable for putting it in your

newsletter. the senator was sued. the scientists collected. brian: do you remember any time on the house floor when somebody was using it, because they were obviously protected? ray: whatever they say is protected. i cannot think of any incident where anything particularly outrageous said was protected. the house floor and the senate floor or where -- are where america has its debate and where all of the voices are supposed to come together. they are not always going to be on the same page. that is part of the greatness of the place, that someone gets up and says something and something that could be totally outrageous and somebody else will get up and offer a correct or -- a correct of, or in alternative position. usually they do it with a great decorum and when they do not the fireworks fly and you have to get out the mace.

brian: what are the rules today all about the congressional record and editing your comments from the floor? ray: yes. brian: do you have to identify that you edited them? ray: there are lots of different ways the congressional record, not only what is said on the floor of the house but material that can be entered in an extraneous manner. in other words, you can added later. and that usually shows up in a different type of face in the record and shows up in a session called extension of remarks where you did not say it on the floor, but you want to add something. sometimes you make reference to an article in "the new york times" and you want to read it on the floor but add to the record. the record is more complete than of what is said on the floor. you do have the right to edit mistakes or oversights or make corrections.

don: it has been going on for a long time. henry clay and daniel webster edited their remarks before they went into the records. it smooths out. sometimes because they misspoke during the debate. in the 19 century when members thought duels against each other, the leading insult was an apology for you is that saved you from having to go to the dueling grounds with that person. and exchange between henry clay and calhoun. calhoun was furious the next day that clay had said something. clay said it has been removed. in other words it does not exist , anymore as far as we are concerned. ray: once television came in the question then, what is the record?

if the television camera shows you saying one thing on the videotape and at the record shows you saying something else, which is the record? i remember having conversations since i was involved in some of the earlier debates and discussions about when i first got there the house was not saving the broadcast, they were recycling them after 60 days thinking they were only newsworthy for 60 days. i said what about history? what about the fact you may have somebody on the floor like an abraham lincoln? why are you erasing history? when lincoln was a congressman if we had a speech, it would be priceless. brian: this is, a senator from illinois until 1969. this is a little clip from one of his weekly presentations that he would send back to the television stations. this is when he mentioned abraham lincoln. watch this.

[video clip] >> i sometimes think -- my desk is piled high. [indiscernible] for sure, the problems of the country are complex. [indiscernible] all this literature, all these papers. [indiscernible] finding the very simple answers. strange. the problems of mankind. we seem to look for the complicated answers. if we could only go back. [indiscernible] without the benefit of articles

and books and essays and all of the problems of the day. showing all manner of attitude. all manners of the day. brian: in case you missed it, he was talking to a statue of abraham lincoln. >> he was from illinois as was abraham lincoln. he was famous for having said that politicians had to get right with lincoln. lincoln was the model for their party. this is a folksy way of talking about current issues and connecting to the past. he was doing that in a recording studio. many senators over time have done tv programs or little clippings that were broadcast back to their state. a way of trying to communicate with the citizens and show you can talk with their language and discuss things that would be important to them.

and to show them that everett dirksen and lincoln were close enough to have a conversation on television. brian: what was your reaction? ray: i love everett dirksen number one. when i came from illinois, he was my congressman. the first time i visited the capital to get a pass to visit the gallery and the senate and go to the senator's office and got that. i loved to listen to his voice for he was one of the great orators. he was a real smooth talker. and there was a story that george told, the great photographer for "the new york times" about a group that came to visit with everett dirksen. he was on the floor of the senate and came out. his style which i cannot imitate but i will do a semi-imitation. he said, ladies, i have phone

-- thrown off the mantle of the cloak of the senate to come out to speak with you. what is it that you could possibly have in your mind that i can help you with? one of the ladies popped up and said, nothing, senator, we just want to hear you talk. [laughter] brian: who else can you think of that people want to hear talk? don: when daniel webster sometime the entire house would go to the senate to hear him speak. when arthur vanderburgh spoke on foreign policy, everybody came to the chamber. the press gallery would be full. in recent times, that kind of oratory has disappeared. it is not the sort of television-friendly oratory. but i loved to hear -- he was always a bit unpredictable and amusing and erudite.

oratory is not the same as it was a century ago. brian: in 1994, a senator and he was a republican from north carolina. a couple reasons for running this, one is you can hear the southern accent and going back to the speech and debate clause, he is talking about people specifically. let's -- this is during the bill clinton years. [video clip] >> i did not say that cassie thompson use cocaine. i did say very clearly she had a close business relationship with a man who used cocaine extensively. i said that she was not assuring members of the house that at the people monitoring the white house drug testing, including herself, worked among the especially tested group of white

house employees with the history of drug use. given that fact and given her past relationship with -- i still believe that the president should certify that and no one in charge of that the drug testing program has a history of a drug problems themselves. brian: mr. smock? ray: those were ugly times. the whole clinton impeachment. that was just -- and that was in 1994. and that was the year the , republicans took over control of the house. in the election of 1994, a lot of -- i remember the 1990's as pretty contentious times and of course, growing business that

had plagued the clintons going back to arkansas. there was a relentless effort to smear them or what was going on in the white house. don: i was listening to him speaking when i first came to the senate before c-span was there. we used to have what was called a squawk box. a little green box on your desk a you could hear what was going on, like a radio. without an announcer telling you who was speaking and you had to guess. i was always thankful for senators like lauch faircloth because you could identify him. i could identify strong arm and or update strom thurmond or others because they had strong accents. then the middle of the country senators who all sounded alike and you sat at thinking, who is that? south dakota or north dakota?

without the picture, you are really lost. but you still get regional flavor in the senate. it reminds us of the nation and the nation sending people who sound like them. brian: remember some voices from the house but before we do that, here is senator hollings that you mentioned. again, we run this clip for a couple of reasons. including the way he was approaching the budget in those days. [video clip] >> you can come to washington and forget about it. there was a time and i saw one article with the other day put in the record relative to president lyndon b. johnson and it said he did not care. oh, no. he did. he did not give guns and butter. he came in 1969. the last time the united states government balanced the budget was under president lyndon

baines johnson in 1969. we ended up in the black, with a surplus. brian: he did not give credit to bill clinton balancing the budget. what is your reaction? and do you have somebody you can remember the voice? ray: fritz hollings was right out of central casting as the classic silver-haired southern senator pre-if you was going to do a movie with that kind of character, you cannot pick anybody fritz hollings that are -- for that role. i think he cultivated that to some degree on the floor. although that was him, that was no question. i think when senators and members of the house do have a certain style, they probably have magnified it a bit since television. there is always the question

whether they played the television. i do not think they do consciously all of the time but there are times when they clearly know the cameras are on. brian: do you have somebody you can remember that a distinctive voice, distinctive accent? ray: i liked jim wright that texas accent and was very precise when he was majority leader and also when he was speaker. he was -- he could speak wonderfully and in an extemporaneously manner. both down-home texan and right-on-the-money parliament terry or seizure. -- parliament terry procedure. -- parliamentary procedure.

brian: he recently died. he was in his early 90's and suffered mouth cancer and had operations. when you think back to jim wright in the house and what happened to him, $55,000 book deal or something compared to what we have now? what is your reaction? don: too bad his tenure was shortened. working in the senate i do not have as much to deal with him. ray and i were both working on the bicentennial of congress and a lot of joint meetings. i was at a ceremony and speaker wright came to the senate side and one of his aides handed him a three by five card. i would say there was 60 seconds before his performance was due begin. i watched him look at the card and make a few mental notes and put the card in his pocket. when he began speaking, it was as he had been studying this for issue. he was wonderful. he presented it in a way that was second nature to him. i thought a very gifted man. a very talented man. but it was a shame the ethics charges cut his speakership short. ray: i was very saddened to

learn of jim wright's passing. i reported directly to the speaker. he was my boss during his tenure as speaker. and we did a lot of the things related to the bicentennial together as don mentioned. one of the things we did was, we took a huge delegation to philadelphia to go to the old house and senate chambers there and reenact a congressional scene. jim wright had to be convinced it was a good idea. on top of that i wanted a , musical number to be played on the floor of the house during that very special ceremony in philadelphia. and he required me to bring the video in, and he listened to it and he said, this might work and

i will tell you why are you if we get up there in philadelphia and i am presiding and i think the time is right, you have the group ready and i will give you the nod. so he would not tell me until , the very last minute. here we are the cameras are , rolling. we in this special ceremony, he looked over to me and said, we brought to the group in everybody was singing this little song that was the preamble of the constitution. it was wonderful, to have members of congress singing the preamble. i thought it would be a good thing.

i don't think you miss one out of of the 39 plus three that were in the room. here we are. . >> even though he is only 5'4" he is a giant. do you think he has got his due in american history/ ? >> i think he has. you tend to be looked from the standpoint of the presidential administration. i think james madison's greatest conservation to american history is the work he did in the constitutional convention and then the work he did in the first congress -- he served in

the first five houses of representatives. he is the one who pushed through the passage of the bill of rights. brian: 10 years ago. we are talking about george washington, who is on the right, and james madison on the left. what is the value of that? part of the reason we randy's clips, and i have one -- we randy's clips, what do you think of signers hall? ray: one of the greatest adventures i have had. being able to work with the sculptures, looking at how the signers looked, what clothes they wore, so they could make the statues as accurate as possible. and then, to learn i was the same size as then franklin, to be able to model for the ben

franklin statue, that was a treat. that was based on the fact that we found a suit of his close -- his clothes, that he wore to the signing of the treaty of paris. the suit is preserved, we measured it and we are the same size. every time i have been to the constitution museum, school children love to sit in ben franklin's lap. he is a popular statue. brian: here is don ritchie, 18 blocks from here, talking to some people about the butler-sumner keening. don: some of you may remember andrew butler, associated with a infamous act that took place in the senate, the beating of senator charles sumner of massachusetts. he was an abolitionist and had given a speech attacking various

southern people who supported slavery, one of whom he attacked was andrew butler. his nephew was a congressman from south carolina named preston brooks. there is a monument to brooks there. he came into the senate chamber and beat senator sumter with a cane while he was sitting at his desk in the senate chambers. the only time the united states senator has been physically assaulted on the floor of the senate. sumner was out of the senate for a few years recuperating. it was a symbol of the sub -- this coming of the civil war. template us brian: the only time someone had been beaten on the senate floor. what about the house floor? don: a book has just come out about assassinations and assaults on members of congress. i was looking at a recent convention, and i was astonished how many chapters in the book, there were lots of fights.

most of those were between members. occasionally, on the grounds of the capital, ok should lead there were members -- occasionally there were people who took out their frustrations on reporters. there was an instance in 1890, where a congressman and a reporter got into a fight on the house steps. the reporter pulled a pistol and shot and killed the congressman. there have been act of violence around the capital. there are a large number of members of congress from the 19th century buried at that cemetery. around halloween, i take a bus load of staff to the congressional cemetery to pay homage to the famous members of congress who are buried there, including indian chiefs, the original architect who designed the capitol building, j edgar hoover, john philip sousa, matthew brady. a great mix of americana there.

brian: we will now show the marriage between two members cap into your memory of either -- if either one of you can remember if there have been other marriages between the house and senate. this is 1993. congressman bill paxson from new york and congresswoman susan molinari from staten island. >> thank you, mr. speaker. while i acted as speaker pro tem yesterday, i was approached on the podium by our colleague, bill paxson, who notified me that during the course of the debate, which was ongoing at the time, he had proposed marriage to our colleague, susan molinari, who came to the podium and said she accepted. i wanted to announce that today. they have been longtime friends,

and have had the opportunity to serve with susan and her father. we go way back. we were elected to the new york assembly six years before we started service in congress. they are outstanding officials. good friends to everyone in the chamber. i want to join my colleagues in wishing them the best of health and happiness. >> thank you. i guess so. brian: neither one of them are in congress anymore. they both lobby, slid -- susan molinari for google, i think her husband lobbies for boeing. how often does this happen? don: occasionally. more in the house.

in the senate, the one family that sticks out is howard baker, who is married to join derksen the daughter of everett dirksen. howard baker married nancy kassebaum, they were in the senate together. that is the first time to senators were married. nancy kassebaum's father ran against franklin roosevelt. they are political families. brian: on the house side, any marriages? ray: not in particular. there were some spectacular marriages, nicholas longworth, when he was speaker, when he married the daughter of the president of the united states theodore roosevelt, alice roosevelt longworth, a real fixture in washington society for many years. i interviewed her myself when she was in her 80's, late 80's at the time.

we had early pictures of her and we wanted, she was a beautiful woman. that was one of the most spectacular marriages. i remember finding a slide of nicholas longworth as speaker, at the time they were being married. he was not listed as the speaker or anything. he was listed as the groom. alice roosevelt upstaged the speaker. brian: durham over the member of congress who had a wife on the west coast and one here? ray: connie mack and mary bono. brian: how about the guy with two wives? i will mention his name. we had liddy dole and bob dole. don: and a number of cases wives succeeded their husbands.

in the dull case, she ran on her own as a senator from north carolina. most of the other cases, the senator died. like daddy is haraway -- thaddeus haraway, his wife took his seat. brian: this is the nuclear option. what is that? don: a parliamentary device. it has to do with trying to reduce the number of votes needed to invoke cloture to cut off debate scene can have a final vote. and the senate, the most it takes is 60 votes. in the last congress, the majority party was able to engineer a situation in which they were able to get cloture and do a simple majority are all nominations below the level of the supreme court.

brian: is harry reid, who was behind changing this, you only needed a simple majority? >> to the average america, adapting the rules to make the senate work is common sense. this is not democrats versus republicans. this is making washington work regardless of who is in the white house and who controls the senate. to remain relevant and effective as an institution, the senate must meet the challenges of this modern era. i have no doubt my republican colleagues would argue that it is the democrats fault. i would say, no one's's are clean on this issue. -- no one's hands are clean. but this debate is between those who want to break the gridlock in washington, and those who defend the status quo.

is the senate working now? can anyone say the senate is working now? i don't think so. brian: do they have cloture in the house of representatives? ray: the house works differently. you do have to have a certain number to get things past. they have rules with the rules committee, as to whether or not their will or will not be amendments. what happened in recent years, since dennis hastert was speaker, it became known as the hastert rule. hastert was a republican speaker who would not bring a bill to the floor unless he had enough republican votes to pass it. therefore, ignoring the democrats altogether. that is a different kind of parliamentary maneuver.

it kept a lot of bills from coming to the floor. brian: i want to run senator mitch mcconnell talking about this at the same time. >> this is all basically the same debate. rather than distract people from obamacare, it reinforces the narrative of a party that is willing to do and say just about anything to get its way. willing to do or say just about anything to get its way. because that is what they are doing all over again. once again, senate democrats are threatening to break the rules of the senate, break the rules of the senate, in order to change the rules of the senate. and over what? over what? over a court that doesn't even have enough work to do? millions of americans are hurting because of a --

washington democrats, and what do they do about it? they cook up some fake fight over judges. brian: i don't know where to start with that. don: i tell people if they ask about this, there is really not a republican position or a democratic position about filibusters and cloture. there is a majority party position and a minority party position. frankly, both parties have been on both sides of the issue. the nuclear option was first proposed in recent times by bill frist, a republican leader of the senate when george w. bush was president. he was subjected to the fact that the democrats were keeping president bush from getting his nominees, the nominees could not be confirmed. one of them, miguel estrada, the repeal -- they repeatedly tried to get cloture on his nomination and failed each time. president bush kept saying, my

nominees deserve an up or down vote, a simple majority. 60 votes is unconstitutional. senator frist was threatening to invoke the nuclear option. at a critical moment, a gang of 14, seven democrats and some republicans, got together and worked out a compromise abated not have to do this. go forward a couple years, and now, the parties are reversed. the republicans are no longer the majority, the democrats are the majority. the republicans are filibustering the president's nominations, the president senator reid is the leader, some nature read -- senator reid says, there is nothing else you can do. mcconnell opposed it. mcconnell is now the majority leader, but they have not done anything about the nuclear option.

they haven't had to invoke it but they have not repealed it yet. at some point, it may be to the majority party's advantage to have this in place. it is not clear who in that future time will be the majority party. the world will look different to them if they are a majority or minority. you have different responsibilities. brian: when you, ray smock, were the historian, in the 80's and 90's, you kept a diary. you had been teaching classes at the bird center. you read from your diary. how extensive is it? ray: i kept it for 10 years. most of it is my observations of things i did or things i saw on the floor. issues of war and peace, being on the floor when all the state of the union addresses were held, when visiting dignitaries from foreign countries, like nelson mandela, were there, and i am on the floor.

i witnessed history. it is about 2000 single spaced pages. brian: will you publish it? ray: i hope to, someday. if it all hangs together. that is part of what i am doing with my classes. i am letting people in the class say, is this interesting or not? so far, they find it interesting. maybe i will do something with it. brian: 1954 was a big moment in the house of representatives. this is universal newsreel. see if you can help us better understand this. >> in washington dc, ruthless than that of violence and rubbed it in the halls of congress.

three men and a woman, believed to be members of a puerto rican nationalist gang that in 1950 attempted to a nasa -- assassinate president truman opened fire from the visitors gallery at the house of representatives. five congressmen were hit. ben jensen of iowa, clifford davis of tennessee, kenneth roberts of alabama, george fallon of maryland, albert bentley of michigan, who was seriously injured. estimates of the numbers of shots fired range from 15 to 30. each bullet hole found is a grim reminder to those who were present, of the terrible surprise attack. the gang, seized by bystanders was held at police headquarters as a search was launched for others who shared in the plot. all the members, the gun wielders and their accomplices does this distinction of perpetrating a criminal outrage unique in america's history.

brian: what impact did that have? ray: a huge impact. but no lasting changes to the house. it was the most violent act that ever occurred in the chamber. there were debates right after that, we can't let this happen again. we need to wall off the visitors gallery with bulletproof glass so this can never happen again. the more the members talked about that and thought about it, they said, no, that is a bad idea. this is the people's house. the people can't be walled off from the floor and what is going on there. it was a conscious decision made to beef up security a bit, but nothing like the security today. over the years, security, in the modern day of terrorism, the security is so tight you can't hardly wiggle anymore.

at that time, some of the bullet holes are still in the desks in the chamber. since then, the chamber has been improved and a number of ways, including the fact that all the seats, the backs of the seats and the seats themselves, have teflon linings on the inside not teflon, kevlar, so it is bullet-resistant, so there is more protection. a lot of changes like that have been made. at that time, all of those people were convicted. they were sent to prison's, and they were pardoned eventually by president carter. they were sent back to puerto rico. brian: this is from 1971. you will see howard k smith from abc, and maybe tom brokaw. let's get your take on this.

>> at one minute before 1:00 the switch part of the capital received a phone call. a man's wise said a bomb would go off in the building and a half an hour. at 1:30 in the morning, it did. in a restaurant on the ground floor of the senate side, near several small offices, including a committee hearing room. a report on the first serious damage to the nation's foremost structures since the british burned it in 1814, here is congressional correspondent bob clark. >> alarm, for a time, that other bombs may be hidden in the capital. police used trained dogs to sniff out explosives in a search inside and outside the building. the single bomb set off by a timing device in the men's room left it in shambles. rick from -- plaster ripped from walls. experts sought clues to the nature of the explosives. heavy damage to the barbershop.

windows smashed, 100 feet away in the senate, tables were overturned and a stained glass mosaic destroyed. don: the capital building is a symbol. that makes it a target. they mentioned the british burning the building, there is a bombing during world war i by a professor who was opposed to american support for the allies. there was the shooting in 1950 four. what happened in 1971 was a bomb set off by those opposed to the vietnam war. in 1983, another bombing in the senate side by a group opposed to president reagan's foreign policy. in 1998, 2 policeman shot and killed by -- at the capital. there have been instances over time. and yet, the capital has remained a remarkable opening building -- a remarkably open building. there has been a lot more

security. and people in the building are safe, as well as the staff. you can get in and out of the building easier than you can get in and out of any executive branch agency, in part because everyone is a constituent, and the senators and representatives want constituents to see congress at work. interestingly, the 1971 bombing did not affect security, just like the 1954 shooting. it was not until the 1983 bombing that far more metal detectors were installed, the staff had to use badges and id cards were issued. each of the subsequent events, especially 9/11 and the anthrax attacks, security has been ratcheted up considerably. today, security is different the 1971 when the bombing took place. brian: has anyone counted the number of bollards around the capital?

don: streets have been closed off that used to be public. brian: this is from 1986. a man first elected to the senate at age 29. he is currently very available and active in today's politics. let's watch this from 1986 former senator from delaware. >> in the 1600s, bold hair -- voltaire said, if we believe in absurdity, we are bound to contribute atrocities. under democrats and republican presidents, it has been riddled with absurdities. one absurdity is, the notion that the saudis, even if they were predisposed, are able to be agents of change and able to be agents of u.s. interest in the persian gulf region.

given that the brown decision was one of the most controversial constitutional decision of the century, it is inconceivable to me that a person with such strong views as justice rehnquist would not have had a view regarding the correctness of the decision. brian: joe biden, looking a bit different. ray: i guess we will talk hair for a moment. he looks better today, i think hair-wise. i think he had a hair transplant or something, as i recall. but he was then on top at that time. -- thin on top at that time. personally, i admire him a great deal. in his career in the senate, and his role as vice president, as a public person, he is a fine human being and i have always

admired joe biden. brian: how is he elected at age 29? you have to be 30. don: he turned 30 by the time he was sworn in. his wife and one of his children were killed in a car accident at that time. his other children were injured in the accident. for a while, he thought he was not coming to washington. the secretary of the senate allowed him to travel to done -- the secretary of the senate traveled to delaware to swear him and in the hospital. he commuted on amtrak every day to the senate from delaware. i talked to his staff, and they suggested he became a better senator because of that. they had an hour and a half every morning to brief him on what the hearings were going to be. he was always well prepared when he walked into the committee rooms. he became chairman of the foreign relations committee and the judiciary committee and he loved the debate on the senate.

it was a great forum for him. i think he was very comfortable here. brian: we only have a minute or so left. your favorite time in the history of the house and the senate? don: if i had -- ray: if i had to pick, i would say the first five congresses. the country was basically established at this time. you had people like james madison in the house, you have the bill of rights, the establishment of the president's cabinet positions, you have so many basic legislation, the creation of the u.s. mint, the creation of the post office. everything, you are seeing the beginning of this great experiment. a lot of the work, almost all of the work is being done in the house of representatives. the house of representatives at that time with -- was the center

of government. don: we celebrated the 150th anniversary of the civil war. that must've been a fascinating time to be in the legislature. all of the states rights members had seceded. that allowed nationalist to pass legislation that they had tried to get past four decades. this was a terrific time for people who believed in an active national federal government. lincoln's first congress was one of the most productive in history largely because the membership change dramatically when the war started. brian: don ritchie, and historian and the united states senate. ray smock, a historian. we thank you for coming and winging it with these clips. thank you to the producer, who

helped us find all of those clips. we appreciate that very much. thank you. >> for free transcripts, or to give us your comments, visit us at q&a.org. "q&a" programs are available as c-span podcasts. >> if you liked tonight's "q&a", author fred kaplan discusses john quincy adams. the author on a book that describes how the 1856 speech on slavery and a vicious assault on the senate floor contributed to the civil war. pulitzer prize-winning biographer talks about his multivolume series on president lyndon johnson from his early political career to his first days of the presidency after the assassination of jfk.

you can find those online at c-span.org.