concacaf and not here to talk bit. i've worked with cbs's "60 minutes" and hbo's real sport. i have reported from war zones in beirut check nia. i'm very proud of being a reporter in the world band by mr. blatter because of my disclosures over the last 15 years. before stumbling on the fifa lowlifes, i had experience with organized crime and been nose to nose with the mafia in palermo. blatter's thief the -- fifa has all the characteristics of an organized crime syndicate. after seven years of following these sleaze bags and putting up

with their little threats and their attacks on my computers, i was invited to the fbi special agent in london. the business card said organized crime. i was not alone anymore. the real people had arrived. i gave them financial and other documents that america's chuck blazer had hidden from the fans. you talked about not having mr. flynn, chuck blazer was there in 1995. look who represented you. look to u.s. soccer with happy to have representing american values. i hope you can come back to that. check blazer had hidden all of this financial information from the fans and the public. my source had obtained them from the archives of concacaf. they were circulated privately to executive committee members of concacaf, including u.s. soccer who suppressed them.

u.s. soccer had to note that blazer took chuck -- jack warner from trinidad. and innovating rightful taxes but they looked away. it's time to go into now, the failings of u.s. soccer with concacaf and with blatter, i be happy to present it to any of you and discuss it later. if america's soccer leaders had taken action when they should have done, blazer and warner would have been in jail. blatter seeking asylum in zimbabwe, and the 2022 world cup being hosted by usa, not some graveyards in the gulf. it took the fbi and the irs to check -- a few weeks to check out the information that i gave them.

they arrested check blazer and they -- he immediately gave them names. fifa has imploded. it is a shell. it has no credibility. there would be a time when they would walk down the street with the fifa logo, i'm from fifa, i'm important. who would do that now? who would dare do that now. if blatter is determined to stay in power, don't believe this nonsense about, he is going. i've put down my mandate, but i'll put it up -- pick it up again. his hitmen are working to eliminate rivals. his ethics committee is working overtime to obey his instructions. his pr operation says he is innocent, but this is a national -- international sports league that can only travel to russia and stay in switzerland.

that is not international. what america can do is engage with clean, decent associations around the world create a new organization based in another land, and invite sponsored tv networks to go with them. i can't see coca-cola, mcdonald's, and visa river -- preferring the remnants of blatter's organized crime family. there is one crucial thing the u.s. soccer should do. some people may remember when the u.s. committee was in disarray over the scandal 16 years ago. they called in a senator george mitchell and ken dubin stein to investigate where they had gone wrong. and make recommendations for external respected investigation. this committee helped u.s. soccer set up a similar, independent committee to find out what on earth has gone so badly wrong and has been covered up. also, u.s. soccer could do what your government does would just

put everything online. and then there is new reorganize, reinvigorated u.s. soccer could really say to the world we can do it. join with us. all 209 of the national associations would come with you. next month mr. sunoco lassie who i think is treating with you -- sunil gulati who i think is treating you with contempt, he can't come here and defend u.s. soccer's activity in concacaf and in fifa, so he is going over to zurich next week for a private meeting with what is left of fifa. i would urge mr. blatter -- sunil gulati to e-mail ladder and say when you get to zurich

i want all your payslips. your bonuses, your per diem's. if it's not there, i'm coming home and i'm going to help u.s. soccer. that is what you've got to do with the country to help regain credibility internationally. thank you. >> thank you. let me start with mr. flynn in asking a question. you've heard this or jennings just say that u.s. soccer had to know. so the question is, what did u.s. soccer no, what should you have no -- known, and particularly with the indictments that allege racketeering bribery, wire fraud, money laundering, what is the reaction of the u.s. soccer federation to that and the charges at fifa, the executives and board members. also, what does the u.s. soccer federation know about concacaf

in similar circumstances? it is perceived as the most corrupt of the regional associations. what does the u.s. soccer federation note? >> thank you senator. i knew nothing about any corruption. >> let me interrupt just one moment. when you say you knew nothing, you speak just for you personally? >> i will say i and anybody that i have worked with has not brought anything to my attention, cold hard fact regarding corruption within fisa or concacaf. that being said, there are a couple of things i would like to point out in terms of mr. blazer had not been involved with u.s. soccer since 1986. he has been involved -- a member of concacaf, and fever. but not since 1986.

in terms of mr. blatter and mr. warner's activities, i would like to point out that those were private individual secret transactions. with the full resources of the department of justice and the fbi, it took four years to bring to light. we are a soccer organization with our greatest focus on developing all aspects of our sport in this country. i wanted to point out that those private transactions also work for regional sponsorship and regional broadcast rights. that has nothing to do with u.s. soccer and our rights, and our tv, and our sponsorship. i think that is an important part -- point of distinction i would like to make. >> mr. flynn, thank you. let me ask a follow-up question. when the u.s. department of justice and the u.s. attorney's office announced indictments

you and your colleagues at the u.s. soccer federation would be surprised that there would be some activity occurring at fifa or concacaf that would result in indictments? that would surprise you? >> senator, i was not aware of any part of that investigation of the department of justice. >> but the fact that someone was indicted surprises you? >> i just was not involved. my focus, and that of my day-to-day focus is to stay focused on the domestic side of our business. so i just did not have any knowledge nor did anyone i work with have any knowledge. >> let me try to tie something together because it may be confusing as to why we are having a hearing that involves mr. bery:. my question, we have heard mr. bery:'s testimony about the conditions involving the preparation for the 2022 soccer

world cup. what is the relationship between the testimony that we are hearing, mr. bery: about corruption, bribery activity criminal activity related to fifa, and the findings that your organization has made in regards to what is going on in preparation for that role cap? -- world cup? are these two contrasting stories that do not belong together, or are they intimately tied together? >> thank you chairman for the question. at the end of the day when fifa made the decision to grant the bid for the 2022 world cup to qatar, it took response ability for the human rights impact of the decision. >> how can you say that? >> fifa with an international organization with a billion-dollar preserve had a responsibility under you and principles to ensure that its operations do not turn a blind eye to or directly involve

serious human rights abuses. and it is pretty clear that human rights abuses and labor exploitation -- playstation -- explication is rampant in qatar today. it is pretty clear that the government has yet to do anything substantial about the blatant labor exploitation bear. why was it that fees that did not go more deeply into these questions of labor explication -- exploitation in the process? data has said that for the 2026 process they are going to incorporate human rights concerns. why has it taken to the 2026 process for these questions to be raised? >> mr. jennings on me ask you, is there a relationship between what you describe in your testimony and the testimony that mr. bery: has described, how do they relate? >> take a step back.

u.s. soccer has a tailings. so do the leaders of english soccer. they should've known better than to ever bid for that world cup in qatar. we all know the you have to pay to play. you don't get in a race where you are going to get rides off the planet. let's get that in mind. it was a dirty decision to put the world cup on a strip of sand that was broiling. people would die if there was a summer tournaments there. fifa new. you have to wonder why certain people, despite that, voted for the world cup to go there. it's gotten worse. what blatter calls stakeholders they are moving it to november, december of the world cup year. he wants to die young, -- if you want to die young country england and stand outside manchester united, liverpool

and say hey, we are going to stop you having football for seven weeks because jack warner took the money. i hope it is a painful death. you can't walk into somebody else's sports culture and just take it away. but that is what blatter is doing now. it was questioning him? i don't see any of the officials from u.s. soccer saying no, no, we are friends with the english and the german and the dutch and all the other western european federations who are going to have to stop their games because of the dirty slime bags at fifa. that is the background. the money went somewhere. it went in, and the lowlifes on the fifa executive committee voted for something that will end up with the death of migrant workers. i just would say one other thing here we have a saying in european football when

officials, administrators, cancer member what happened. i don't know, i wasn't there, i can remember. we say oh yeah, when they were younger they must have headed that big wet football too many times. the scandal of concacaf and jack warner's ticket rackets are public knowledge back to 2002 again in 2006, again in 2010. it was ritually -- richly documented that racketeering was a way of life at concacaf. >> let me turn to mr. blumenthal. >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. flynn, i appreciate you being here today. i understand it is your testimony that you had no knowledge of this corruption before may of this year, when the department of justice issued its indictment. is that correct? you had no knowledge? >> that is correct. >> did you have suspicions? >> there were moments i would

describe, if i had a level of discomfort i wish not participate and i would just get myself out of any situation that offered any level of discomfort to me. >> so there was evidence that caused you to remove yourself from discussion or meetings? >> i wouldn't say evidence, i would say it was a comfort level. >> wended that lack of comfort level begin? >> i could not pinpoint any particular time. >> years before the indictment correct? >> i would not necessarily so years, it would be hard to pinpoint the time. >> months? >> i think it would be fair to say greater than months, but once again it would be hard to pinpoint exact time frames. >> did you make any effort to investigate? >> if there was cold facts i

would have brought that to the attention of the appropriate people. there was nothing in the way of any facts that i could take to anybody else, and obviously would consult our outside counsel, but that is as far as i would take it. it was something that like i said, it was a discomfort level. >> that you made no effort to investigate and your outside counsel did not tell you to investigate? >> no, i just pass along my level of discomfort. >> would you agree in retrospect that u.s. soccer acted in adequately to investigate or prevent or stop the ongoing blatant criminal wrongdoing at fifa? >> i would not describe -- i wouldn't say we would do it differently. we really have two choices. we are one of 209 associate --

national association. really at the end of the day we have to find a way to participate in a manner consistent with our mission and our core values. we think one of the ways to do that is, and starting in 2013 we finally had some -- somebody on the fifa exco that was with u.s. soccer. that was a start in getting a louder voice and a seat at the table. >> let me just interrupt because i think what you are stating is fairly well-known history. i want to ask about what officials at u.s. soccer came to learn, and very bluntly why does officials did so little -- those officials did so little until the department of justice indicted chuck blazer and others

who had long-standing ties to u.s. soccer, particularly in the light of lack of comfort level that you had? in retrospect, what is the explanation? >> i didn't -- [indiscernible] >> i was aware of some level of this -- discomfort, but it was all i think in general, a general feeling. i had no hard evidence and we wanted to continue to participate and try to influence the organization as one of 209 members. the second choice we have is to opt out and to pullout.

with that comes a series of ramifications. we no longer have a seat at the table. we no longer are involved in the competitions olympics, world cup, any competition for our youth teams, and it has far-reaching ramifications for u.s. soccer and the business model of soccer in our country. we have, through ownership of our professional leagues and all three divisions invested hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions of dollars building the sport over the last 20 years so we can continue to build and compete on the field in such a manner that we just accomplished on the women's side. i cap -- >> i understand those two models, but wasn't there to third, which is to begin asking questions, begin an inquiry

begin shining light, begin blowing the whistle? essentially begin holding accountable officials who might be guilty, and we now know they are, of wire fraud conspiracy, money laundering, bribery? that directly impacted the quality and integrity of the sport that you are responsible for upholding. >> we did support the 2011 ethics committee, as i mentioned in my opening remarks. we pushed for full disclosure of the full report. we said front and center, we are one of six nations that nominated prince aly to run -- prince ali to run against set latter -- blatter. having the future executive committee seat, we continue to feel that that is a appropriate course of action to reform fifa.

i wants to make clear that might -- >> i want to make clear that my comments are directed against the general you, not you personally. the organization, the board members of the u.s. soccer federation. i wants to ask you as a matter of fact, why mr. sunil gulati declined the invitation to be here today? >> when the notice of the invitation came, we anticipated rather broad and specific questions potentially. it was determined with outside counsel that i would appear before the senate subcommittee hearing. >> what is the reason that mr. gulaiti didn't? >> i think it was the reason that i had more day-to-day knowledge of the event.

>> don't you think he had an obligation to answer the questions that we have been directing to you? >> senator, i would answer if you are not comfortable with my answers i would be more than happy to respond in writing to your staff. >> you submit that mr. gulati will answer these questions? >> i will certainly do my best to do that. >> just a couple more questions. what is saps -- what is sepp blatter's continuing role in fifa? >> to my understanding there is a meeting the 20th and 21st, from there they would have to do a notice to move forward and there would be a new election for president. >> will u.s. soccer take it -- position that he should effectively be excluded from fifa? >> i think it was pretty clear

when we in the last election nominated and supported prince aly. i don't know who anybody -- any of the candidates are, i don't think anybody knows yet, but rest assured we will look at all of their platforms from human rights to reform, before we make any decisions. >> one last question. don't you believe now that u.s. soccer has a responsibility to do more? its silence in my view has been deafening in many respects to expose the wrongdoing and condemn it. >> in answer to your question, i think a real prime example of what we have done is the recent reform of concacaf. those were sweeping reforms. from independent directors to greater transparency, we think that is something we would like to bring forward to feedback. -- fifa.

recognizing that we are one on the executive committee, and one of 209 nations, we pride ourselves on our leadership. we also understand at times, the limited capacity we have for reform. my time has long expired, -- >> my time has long expired. i wants to defer to senator gains -- daines. >> just to follow-up on some of the questions that senator blumenthal was asking, how many years have you served as ceo or secretary-general of u.s. soccer? >> roughly 15 years. >> 15 years. i understand mr. blaser -- b lazer, the indictments were of mr. blaser and 14 others? >> i couldn't tell you. >> it was more than 10.

you mentioned the cold hard facts, not having the cold hard facts, and at times discomfort. i guess over a 15 year career, we are going to get to the happy part here about what happened with women's soccer congratulations on that truly. a tremendous a competent. but regarding the discomfort that you felt at times we would like you to step back. perhaps there was a line crossed if we look at what these indictments read, the bribery racketeering and so forth. can you tell me about a time when you experienced discomfort and you stepped back because of what you are seeing? >> the discomfort was kind of in generalities. i will tell you in terms of how mr. warner, in one of 41 nations and comcast -- in concacaf, how

he ran a meeting and went through an agenda and had hand votes versus seal the votes those are the kinds of discomforts that led me to some level of discomfort. >> in your distinguished 15 year career with the organization how long ago was it when you first started sensing, perhaps something is wrong. perhaps a few bolts are loose here, perhaps there's discomfort. you've been looking at the indictment here, these things don't just happen overnight. it was probably building. when did you start having some concerns? >> it would be hard to pinpoint. as i said, the generalities -- they are generalities, and they related to the manner in which jack warner and chuck blazer ran their meetings, and how i think u.s. soccer would like to have a

greater influence. but being one of 35 voting nations in my view, mr. warner came from the caribbean, and 25 of those 35 of those are from the caribbean, it just gave me a level of discomfort that we were not going to make progress in terms of transparency and some of the things that i would have preferred as to how u.s. soccer operates. >> did you ever expressed any of his concerns to mr. blaser -- b lazer? >> i did not. >> is there a reason knowing what you know now, why you might not have confronted him? or asked why he was doing what he was doing? >> generally speaking it falls into that to choice -- two choice equation. one of the things we try to do as an example is host the olympic qualifying and host events.

we have to at times balance that with the potential to opt out and with mr. blazer i just felt that we had other things to do that could help our -- build our sport as well. there was some concern that if i brought it to his attention i may feel some level of discomfort in a different way. >> did you see other peers experience discomfort in other ways, who may be tried it to confront mr. blazer? >> it would be hard to categorize it that way but when we reached out and try to talk to other national associations other federations, once again we were one of 35 voting members. there really wasn't anybody else that had the same, maybe the same feeling that i did on a

personal level, or that we did as an organization. we operated as best we could within the framework. once again, we are in concacaf by virtue of being a member of shiva -- fifa. we felt we had to find a way to her dismay, work our way through, fortunately by a very close vote, 18-17 sunil gulati was elected. we feel that that is a step towards reform. that was the model that we thought would move us forward in a very difficult and tricky environment. >> one final question and i will wrap up. back on women's soccer here, on a happier note, the most watched soccer match in u.s. history.

as many television viewers note, i was looking at the financial numbers here with the united states soccer federation. just looking at the investments in the men's national team versus the women's national team, and as the father of two sons and two daughters, you probably see where i am headed with this. the spending on the men's national team was up 50% in fiscal 2014 over 2013, yet the spending for women's soccer actually went down, i think 15%. just any reason, in broad strokes, why the men's would be up 50% and the women's down 15%? >> first of all, thank you for your comment about our women's national team. we are quite proud of our track record with women soccer. we are recognized as a leader.

i give you a few small facts. u.s. soccer's campaign is the reason why women's soccer was admitted to the limbic in 1996. -- to the olympics in 1996 and continues to this day. a 2003 when we hosted the women's world cup, there were no winnings for any team. first, second, third, whatever. the winning this time was $2 million. we continued to push fifa in the right direction. if that was 2014, i don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but it could be, and i would be more than happy to follow-up up and provide in writing. it could be because the men's world cup is an eight year and would create more activity. >> maybe just a follow-up, just

getting a sense of an investment, because hopefully we will continue to invest in our women's soccer. the women -- men's soccer growing, and the women coming back somewhat. i just want to make sure we continue to invest in women's soccer. >> as a father of three dollars -- daughters, we are quite proud of women's soccer. we actually run the women's league. rather than fund 25 to 30 women and cut the team down, we are providing funding for a hundred 80 women's soccer players -- 180 women's soccer teams in this country. >> let me interrupt. we are about out of time. thank you for that reply. senator klobuchar. >> thank you.

i wanted to follow up on some of senator gains -- daine s'questions. of course we are quite proud of the women's team. are you aware that we have put a resolution forward asking for equal compensation between men and women in fifa and in soccer? >> i am not aware of that. >> well, be ready for it. i just think, with what we know about women soccer and what we have seen in the past years with corruption, while you say changes are being made i do not think enough changes are being made. the u.s. women's team for the victory was compensated $2 million. is that right? >> that's correct. >> the men's team, the german team in 2014 was compensated $35 million. >> i think it was 32.

>> 2 million versus $32 million. the losing team which was the u.s. got $8 million. >> i believe it was $9 million. >> we have a situation where the losing team actually got four times as much money as that winning women's team. >> let me point out, the winnings, just as a point of reference, the winnings came -- go to the federations. the payment to our players are guided and governed by separate collective bargaining agreements between the men and women. that is like -- something i think is important. >> just to go back to it, i think they say sometimes women's sports don't get as much attention. we have a situation here where there is record of attention and tv ratings. fox broke tv records in the

u.s., making the world cup final the most watched soccer telecast ever in the u.s., male or female. yet you have this disparity, $32 million versus $2 million. my argument be -- would be that certainly the u.s. should be taking the lead in pushing for more equality here. in tennis they have equality. wimbledon last year decided to have a quality in prizes. it would seem to me that women's tennis is pretty old-school. soccer is supposed be so nouveau, at school -- upscale this cool new sport, yet you have this disparity. i don't think it's all right. >> we do agree. we will continue to push for greater payments on the women's side without question. >> i really appreciate that. could you comment on why the women's world cup was played on artificial turf while the men's world cup was played on grass? >> out of you little background.

in order for a candidate to receive a bid, candidate was the only nation that submitted a bid to host. as part of that bid, from our point of view, part of that bid included playing on artificial services. that's awesome that we like. we appealed to fifa to no avail. we, when our players came to us and wanted to participate in some legal activity, we fully supported that. at the end of the day we posed the question to our women's team : if this is what we are faced with, do we want to move forward and play, or do we not want to play? and the women unanimously decided, it's not perfect, we don't like it, we agreed it was a lack of respect, but we are moving forward. in many respects i think everyone would say we are happy

we move forward. it was not the best of circumstances, but coming away with a third world cup -- >> and the salary range? the salary range of women and men? men, the minimum salary of $50,000. is that true? >> 50,004? -- 50,000 for? >> for men. and for women it's $6,000. >> i'm not sure where that's coming from. >> that's professional soccer. >> i can't speak to major league soccer, if that is what the referencing point is. that is not governed by a collective-bargaining agreement. i can tell you the women's national team, players to play in our league, it is way above $6,000.

to play for their country as well as their clubs, well above 6000 dollars. i would be more than happy to all up and give you more detail on that. >> just going back to the corruption and everything that has happened, my colleagues have done a good job. i'm sure there is a lot more mr. jennings would like to talk about. as a former prosecutor i find the whole thing abhorrent and i applied these cases are being pursued. the women -- the reason i bring up this women's issue is that they u.s. has a short -- the u.s. has a shorter history on the international stage, but has major corporate sponsorship of u.s. companies. what i am advocating here is using that pull for not just reforms and transparency in the international governing structure that we don't see this corruption and it gets taken care of. but also so that women get taken

fairly and equally as men. if they can do it at wimbledon they can do it at soccer. >> thank you senator. can i make one point? we are the strongest advocate i think for women's soccer in the world. just as a point, in 2011 there were 16. we were strong advocates and took a move to expand. on the men's side there are 32. we continue to push fifa and concacaf to expand the opportunity for women. as a father of three daughters rest assured it is at the top of mind for me every day. >> as women, you can imagine how we feel when we hear that women, who everyone is so proud of, get less than one fourth of what the losing team got last year for men. >> it has been in the public

just for a bit, but the women for playing in the world cup and competing this year will receive over $300,000. just as a point of reference. i'm happy to give you more information. >> i really appreciate it. thank you. senator leahy is leading the resolution. >> senator klobuchar, thank you. you heard the testimony of mr. flynn, who indicated, i would summarize his testimony he is involved in the domestic side of these issues that we -- involving the u.s. soccer federation. i think his testimony would reflect that he and his colleagues, no one reported to him any concerns or knowledge of any corruption, bribery, racketeering. i think his testimony would suggest that he had no, he was

unaware of the activity that led to the indictment or indictments. that suggests to me, i don't know exactly what mr. flynn does. he's the ceo. what is it that needs to change structurally that this kind of behavior at fifa would be known by the u.s. soccer federation? >> thank you mr. chairman for that question. i think you have to understand the nature of the beast. seek is like no other organization -- the fact -- fif a is like no other organization that i have worked with on issues of governance and compliance. as mr. bery: said earlier, fifa is not an international organization. it is not an ngo. it does not follow any guidelines or standards. what it is is a small clique of very powerful individuals whose

whole dealings were kept very secret at the top level of the organization. it is no surprise to me that an individual federation like the u.s. soccer federation did not know, did not understand what was going on. this organization, as pointed out by the justice department, had systematic corruption. for years now, for over 10 years, in the midst of many scandals and even going back before 10 years when mr. jennings was aggressively reporting on a lack of transparency and accountability. the organization answer to one man, and one man alone. that man controls this organization with an iron fist and an iron grip. that was the president of the organization, sepp blatter. when he wanted someone to know something, he would let them know cap -- he would let them

know. otherwise individuals would be in the dark. it is discouraging to me that president blatter sits in that same seat today. let there be no mistake, he has not resigned. he has said i will step aside when a new election is called. well he has said twice in the past, in recent history, that he would not run for office again and changed his mind. i am very concerned that he will do the same thing again. at six months from now, he will say the reform initiative is now complete, i have succeeded. the federations from africa from asia, want me to continue so i have decided to stay as president. that would be the worst thing that could happen for fifa. >> therefore mr. hershman:, your

testimony is that the best thing that happened for fifa is the departure of mr. blatter? >> not only mr. blatter. there are dinosaurs in the executive committee that don't believe in reform. let me say this. we are going to see next week at the executive committee meeting, the effect executive committee adopt new reforms. reforms we recommended years ago to be adopted and that were put aside. it is not what's on paper. it's not going to be the compliance program. it's not going to be a change in governance structure. it's got to meet a culture of the organization that has to change and you can't have a change in culture unless you have people in leadership who believe in ethics and values. >> let me ask you this then. what is the motivation for that change to occur? what needs to happen to the u.s. soccer federation, others around

the globe. does what we are doing here have any consequence on these issues? i assume that the opponent to change is financial. >>there are apparently large amounts of money that's around fisa. -- fifa. what steps need to be taken to over come that culture? >> number one, the sponsors have got to take -- and not only the sponsors, but those that bid on media rights. they have got to take a stand. when an individual athlete, be it tiger woods, or ray rice, the first -- does something wrong, the first thing is the sponsor walks away from that relationship.

fifa has been the subject of scandal after scandal after scandal. or has taken the lead in withdrawing their support from fifa based on those scandals. the sponsors and the media outlets have got to stand up and say, if you don't reform, if you don't do the right thing, we are going to walk away. federations like the u.s. soccer federation has got to come together. organizations with similar beliefs in transparency and accountability, and i do believe that that is the belief of the u.s. soccer federation, have got to come together and force change of the top. finally, governments. many governments provide sustenance to sports federations . not necessarily in the united states, but overseas governments spend billion's of dollars of tax payer money supporting their sports organizations. they have got to intervene and let them know that the time is

right for change. even here in the united states well we don't spend taxpayer money on supporting our domestic sports organizations, the nfl we provide them with tax exempt status -- i'm sorry, with exception from antitrust laws, which is worth a great deal of money to them. governments have got to influence sports organizations to undertake transparent and accountable governments. >> let me ask you mr. jennings what needs to transpire? the same question i asked mr. hershman:? what needs to transpire, today or tomorrow that would give you hope that the corruption that you have described would be resolved internally within fifa? perhaps your answer depending on your testimony is that fifa has no future? is that different than what mr.

hershman: is saying? >> fifa has to be dissolved. they don't want reform. we use words like reform, they think bully. they get arrested, i would just like to come back to concacaf because i am quite astonished at what i hear. reform, they have had one. we are on the third one i think. when mr. warner was taken out think -- thanks goodness, they had reform. they had reform meetings and they brought into men, jeffrey webb from cayman and a few years the fbi said, can you step this way please sir. now they are doing this again. who is this, horace burrell?

a man who put his girlfriend in to vote at the fifa conference in 1998? they are so corrupt. the united states federation has been cowardly, because little peter jenkins, was it from st. kitts? not a powerful country. he had the guts to stand up and say jack warner is stealing tens of millions of dollars of fifa money that should be developing the sport in the caribbean. he had the guts to say warner and blazer turned their raid upon him, he just survived. but he had the courage to do it. where was america? >> let me ask mr. flynn in your testimony i just made note so this will not be identical to what you said, but your testimony was that you could encounter a potential political impact that you indicate the u.s. soccer federation opposes the reelection of sepp blatter?

>> i'm sorry i didn't hear you. >> you indicated in your testimony that the u.s. soccer federation opposed, but for someone other than sepp blatter as president? your testimony had something along these lines, and that could have caused potential political impact in our chances to host the world cup? that suggests to me that there is an awareness that the decision about where a world cup soccer match is going to be played, you would admit, is not necessarily based upon the merits. if you are worried about a vote, or the chairman of fifa having an impact on site selection that suggests to me that you are aware that something is not aboveboard, or am i overstating that? >> sorry. i think it reflects a management style. that is what i was trying to impart.

mr. blatter wields a, as others have said, a lot of influence in the organization. taking our position to not only vote openly but to nominate vince l.a., and work -- prince ali, and work very hard for his nomination we know that that may come with some difficulties down the road in terms of seeking support for hosting the 2026 world cup in terms of mr. blatter's management style. >> thank you. >> thanks mr. chairman. mr. jennings, would you agree based on your experience, that american corporate sponsors like nike, mcdonald's, coca-cola have been in some sense enablers?

>> they've had terrible attacks of blindness, haven't they? when the rest of the world has been categorizing, listing corruption at fifa, they've documented, the sponsors have said, oh well, we have to support the world cup, we don't support fifa. isn't that tough and brave of them. >> maybe i should amend my question to say they certainly would be enablers now if they continue to be sponsors without insisting on reform. >> i think they should withdraw unless their money the money they like so much should be withheld until something radical happens to clean up the sport at the grassroots. >> there is precedent, for example, in the way that nike dealt with tiger woods following some of the revelations and

public disclosures. >> that's a very limited case which got huge publicity because it dealt with the private life of a celebrity. it gets a lot of tablet coverage. >> but whether it's private life and morality, or in this instance, public corruption, it should be addressed. >> oh yes. they have the capacity, the brains, and experience in their head offices in atlanta and chicago, and they have not done anything. they should be trying to, they should be apologizing. mr. flynn has talked a lot about the organization of american football, rather soccer. not particularly relevant to the issues at hand about corruption at fifa. nevertheless, the moms and dads, my daughter plays football in the park at seattle. you know the people i'm talking

about, the families, the lower level. not just the stars of your male and female teams. they have been betrayed by an organization that cloaks itself in the glamour of men and women. >> would you agree mr. bery: that american sponsors have turned a blind eye to human rights abuses and potential deaths of migrant workers and human trafficking? should they have known, should they have done something? >> of course, the answer is yes. >> and mr. bery:? >> >> there's definitely been a startling lack of attention to the labor explications in qatar today. thousands upon thousands of

migrant workers in qatar are forced into a terrible system that can lead to forced labor in some cases. it is time for the sponsors of the world cup, it is time for the contractors and the businesses involved with world cup, as well as the host government itself, qatar, to start taking action and doing something about this crisis. >> they can have an impact, can't say, simply based on the power of the purse, dollars, investment? >> the sponsors of the world cup conduct really pay -- play a serious and productive role in terms of the labor exploitation for the world cup of 2022. >> mr. hershman:, do you agree? >> i do agree. these sponsors spend tens of millions of dollars to protect there's -- their brands.

there are compliance standards that are recognized globally. what does it say about them when they are willing to partner with organizations that have the record that fifa has? >> and mr. flynn, do you agree with the views that have been stated here? >> we are happy to have the sponsors weigh in on this particular issue. as a point that i think is worth making from a u.s. soccer perspective, when these things come to light, we have spent a lot of time with our sponsors explaining the difference between u.s. soccer, concacaf and fifa. i think the sponsors welcome the opportunity for discussion with us. we are happy to wait in on these particular -- weigh-in on these particular issues. >> in your opinion is fifa salvageable? >> no, not at all.

the corruption is so deeply embedded. america has two take its moral values join with other countries with similar moral values, and just say, you stand zurich. we're out of here. we're attending our of the bunch of organized crime experts. that is what fifa is. it is very good to see your department of justice, your fbi has a system like that. you don't go to john gotti and say, there is too much heroin on the streets. could you cut back on it a bit? well that's all right. that's not how you deal with the mob in boston, is a? >> mr. flynn, is the the salvageable -- fifa salvageable? >> i would address that by looking at the recent reforms of concacaf.

they have been sweeping, i think they are real. i would like to give it hope that that footprint could be used. i am not an organizational expert but i think that is one option. i can tell you the weekend of the women's world cup final there were two other confederations from around the world that were represented in vancouver that were very well aware of the sweeping reforms. they were pleased. hopefully that footprint is at least one step in the interim excuse me, in the short term to reform fifa. but, apart from what -- -- >> apart from what concacaf has done, have you seen a tangible efforts at reform from fifa?

doesn't that have to be -- happen for it to be salvageable? >> i've seen attempts, and unfortunately it has come up short. we continue as one of 209 nations to build coalitions and work with international associations. even our structure, who we are we think that is a good model for us to move forward. we are open to discussion, as always, and we will be doing so with the candidates that are running for the presidency moving forward for fifa as well. i think that is going to be an interesting opportunity, to see what platforms the candidates bring forward. >> will u.s. soccer withdrawal from the structure that supports fifa if it fails to take meaningful reforms? >> as i said before, i think we have two choices, to participate or opt out. the opt out is a very difficult and severe, has severe

ramifications to our model of the sport. given the new platform and level of intensity, not only from the u.s. senate, but from other parts of the world that feel now is the time to make many changes in the page in terms of reform for fifa. >> as a fan as well as a public official and parent, let me just suggest that sometimes in action in silence signal complicity. there will be a point where an effect u.s. soccer is complicit in the ongoing lack of reform or action. you may have no direct control over but i respect we suggest that may be something you want to consider more seriously. will you commit to u.s. soccer conducting and ended

-- independent inquiry has happened in the wake of the solving city scandal? -- salt lake city scandal? >> we will cooperate with any inquiry brought to our attention. >> i am suggesting you take action. that u.s. soccer takes action to conduct the inquiry. you certainly have the resources and again i respectfully suggest you a responsibility. >> i think at one of 209 whether we initiate that, i think would be sent to savor going to need assistance and help of other like-minded nations. we are committed to certainly having those dialogs in discussions. >> are you committed to seek such an inquiry? >> and give it to work with other national associations to reform fifa. >> my time has expired. i have additional questions but i have to go vote. we are sort of

staggering our turn your. if my chairman will take over and ask sufficient questions, i will see you again. thank you. >> thank you very much for your patience. i think there are other members of want to join us but this might be our last round. there is another committee hearing in this room later this afternoon. but me go back to an issue i have mentioned in my opening statement and explored a moment ago. i don't want this issue of loss of life to get lost in the conversation about governance. i think they are related so i am not trying to prioritize one of the other. but i want to make

certain as a result of this hearing there is an awareness by americans, by the world about what you discovered in your investigation in the activities leading up to the games in the future. let me ask you mr. very again -- if you want to detail the findings of what is transpired there and what your request would be for us to make certain that these practices come to a conclusion. what role can we play as the united states? >> the report promising literal and delivering less his latest report they goes into the massive problem of labor exportation in qatar. as we have heard, it starts with loss that prevents migrant workers from leaving their employers leaving the country when they are put in situations that arise to the risk of starvation. as you have

alluded to chairman, within qatar today there are serious health risks and lack of accountability and do go into is when it comes to the sites were workers are doing the hard work and putting in the sweat of all the construction. the hundreds of billions of dollars in construction going on in qatar today. there have been numerous reports about deaths. at the governments of india and nepal have reported that in 2014 over 400 other nationals in qatar died in a whole host of ways and a whole host of reasons. what is highly problematic is that the government of qatar has not put in the effort to do a serious investigation as to how foreign migrant workers are dying in qatar and why. this lack of any sort of investigative interest or effort by the government of qatar reveals a potential lack

of interest in finding of the answers in solving the problem. the government of qatar need to take steps to investigate the deaths that are happening in qatar today. deaths that have ended the lives of many foreign migrant workers who came to qatar for many parts of the world simply to earn money and to send money back home to communities and families in poorer parts of the world for the did not have employment opportunities at the need. >> let me ask mr. jennings an additional question. you are our witness from outside the united states. what influence do you think america has an regard to reforming fifa. >> i would rev is a change but otherwise we would -- we are agreed. america is a terribly unimportant that is terrified of countries like guinea --

when they realized they had it relationship of the kurds in the international community, he did not go ask anybody else. you don't have to go and ask anyone else. is all right if we have an inquiry in america with her of people? please. i find this very dispiriting for this view of america is being gutless because that is was being suggested. get on and do it. don't ask permission of some other countries. it is your country and you have screwed up with fifa and concacaf. i have heard about reforms but i do not believe it from concacaf. the same bunch of crooks and for 20 years -- have been there for 20 years but you can do it. you got the sponsors. event the media. you got the moral power of the huge country and europe will come. can we join as well please? they just need some leadership and they're not getting it.

>> you think there is sufficient value in this hearing that is taking place right now here that you came from britain to the united states to testify. what do you hope comes from this hearing today? what can you expect? what would your desires be that we accomplish? >> as you were saying earlier>> an independent inquiry somewhat united sits on the committee. the first essential -- is essential because it would in the mirror with u.s. soccer and you can see were you and dramatically wrong. that goes back to how you are deaf and dumb over the concacaf problems. iq walkway from problems at fifa . america doing that would have of the country saying we can do that as well. i hope you do set up independent -- now with the permission, but with your own commission of inquiry. second,

this farce going on. blatter setting a date for congress. there are no congress facilities but for the rest of the year by fifa in zurich. he will stay there and wait for us all to get tired to go away. it's worked for him in the past. maybe the fbi can sort them out but you can walk away. or you are cowards, you are weak, and you have no perspective on the rest of the world. and i don't think that is true america generally. >> mr. hirschman let me look and see the right word -- a member of fifa's independent governance committee. what did not occur? it appears to me there was an effort to changing previously. you were involved in the effort to make a change but it did not happen. is that an accurate analysis and why not? ♪>> it is an accurate analysis.

we came in as a group of independent compliance experts and sports experts to look at the internal checks and balances of fifa. to look at their compliance and governance procedures. we did so. we made a number of recommendations, many of which were adopted by fifa. for example establishing a new ethics committee with two cochairs, independent outsiders. want to do investigations and adjudicatory chamber. we established an independent chair of the audit committee of fifa. frankly when it came to recommendations that i consider to be no-brainers because they are common standards around the world, including term limits for executive committee members and the president. including

transparency of compensation. to this day no one knows what the president of fifa is paid. nor with the member of the executive committee are paid. when it came to having them create an independent outside oversight body to ensure that governance and compliance programs that we recommended were being implement it. they turned that down as well. a number of key recommendations that might have made a difference were turned down. i want to emphasize i don't believe even if they had adopted the recommendations without a change in leadership, without a change in culture, we would've seen much different. >> thank you. mr. flynn, the u.s. soccer federation, according to mr. jenning as a role of play. i would like for you to tell us anything you agree with like to know. to set the record straight if you feel

it needs to be said. and asking the question that is there something you would ask from us as we try to ally in the efforts for change reform him improvements? >> thank you. 1.i like to crystallize is that u.s. soccer would support inquiry as a national association i don't believe we have the authority to do so every -- under the current governance. as a relates your question about u.s. senate could possibly do? we welcome any opportunity for the u.s. senate to weigh in with their counterparts in qatar or russia or whoever it might be for any particular issue. we would welcome that and be ready to work with you in that as well. >> do you know if there's any ongoing conversations between u.s. government officials and other countries associated with fifa and the delegations --

these allegations and criminal indictments related to corruption at fifa? do you know whether our government is associated with other countries trying to facilitate change? >> senator. i am unaware of any activity. >> excuse me just a moment. i am going to recess the hearing just for moment. mr. blumenthal was on his way back for a vote. i will go cast the next boat and i will be back. we have a brief subject to the call of the chair recess which might be of value to those of you that a been sitting there for a bit.'s of subcommittee is recessed until i called the chair. >> chair calls the meeting back

to order. that was a very quick recess. >> this will be a brief few questions. mr. flynn, would you commit to establish a better system of accountability within u.s. soccer through some kind of internal inspector general? a watchdog? a protection system? >> we actually, through our outside counsel have hired some of to look at all of our ways in which we government ourselves. that process has been started and supported by our board as well. >> when will it be completed? >> is just started so i think would be a better approach for us to get back to you with the

timeframes once we have a chance to discuss in more detail. >> you testified that sports are undermined by a lack of accountability and i agree. would you say that kind of voluntary system is sufficient to bring some higher degree of integrity to a corrupt system, or at least u.s. soccer has been involved in a corrupt system? or should sports entities be in some way overseen were scrutinized a regulated by a public authority? >> i don't want to see government take away total autonomy from sports organizations. i don't think it would be the right way to go. i do think it voluntary standards and principles are not adopted and enacted, then government

should set up some kind of regulatory protocol to ensure that sports organizations are keeping best practices and standards. there is a tremendous threat to sports worldwide. it has not completely at the shores of our country at.yet. illegal gambling -- gaming totals about $500 billion year. 's bet on sports illegally. that has led to an increase in match fixing which is become endemic in your, -- europe, africa, asia, latin america. is rearing its ugly head. six weeks ago a gambler from detroit was sentenced to six years in prison

for paying college basketball players to fix matches. what i am hoping this committee will do and what our government will do this get ahead of the curve to see that certain standards are put in place voluntarily or otherwise in order to -- hopefully to bring some of the well-known purity back to sports. >> mr. hirschman, he said that member of fifa executive committee should disclose salaries i believe? >> that is correct. >> he is on fifa's executive committee. delete he should discloses earnings? >> i believe you push for change for that and u.s. soccer -- we would support that yes. >> if i might interrupt him a senator. before he was appointed

to the executive committee he served with me on the independent governance committee. and he voted in favor of our recommendation for compensation transparency. >> can we expect that will happen, mr. flynn? >> we will do everything we can within our power in the united states soccer federation. ultimately i believe it will be a fifa executive committee vote. >> when will fifa make that decision? >> i will follow up and get you the. >> mr. bryery, can you tell committee what more you think fifa can do specifically indirectly to stop human rights abuses including human trafficking, exultation of child labor, horrific working

conditions illegal holding of passports. in effect, involuntary confinement. workers and other abuses involved in construction and host facilities hotels. the breath of these violations i think it's been somewhat inadvertently lost in these proceedings which are focused more on the corruption, the overt criminal corruption and yet these human rights abuses are real and unspeakable. >> you are absolutely right, senator. the bottom line is that are too big pieces of the puzzle that fifa can help solve it comes to addressing the major problems of labor explication in qatar today individually in future countries that will be future host countries for the fifa world cup. the first piece of the puzzle is a question of

what evaluation process is during the bidding process to be a potential host of the world cup. fifa has set for the 2026 world cup, it will include human rights requirements of the bidding process. it is unclear as to what those human rights requirements are going to be and any such initiative must result in fifa having adequate due diligence systems in place so they can become aware of and prevent human rights abuses as a consequence of staging world cup events in the future. that is the first piece. the evaluation of bids to be a host country. any such evaluation context of qatar would have revealed serious problems when it comes to labor exhortation, rising up to forced labor and as he spoke about earlier in the hearing the risk of injury and death to some foreign migrant workers in the country. the second piece of the puzzle -- puzzle for fifa is what happens when it raises an issue verbally or via text to

the host government. the government of qatar says ok, we will do x, y z. than the government largely fails to address the issue. verbal assurances are not enough. there is a real question for fifa as to what happens now. the clock is ticking. it is not enough to wait five years from now to have serious reforms and it comes to labor rights in qatar. every day that goes by is another they -- day that hundreds of billions of infrastructure for the 2022 world cup are already building completed. every single day that goes by without labor reforms in qatar is another day in which a foreign market worker is subject to potentially subject to forced labor, putting her life at risk and very unsafe construction facility. potentially come some to a filthy set of housing accommodations. fourth potentially denied their pay

while their families at risk of being evicted from their home. for fifa the real question is what are they to do now when a year after the government of qatar is claimed it is going to take steps to address the problem. the reality is for some of the worst human rights violations in qatar in the context of labor equitation, not enough is been done. >> i would to add to less questions. one having to do with an issue raised by my colleague. i was astonished and troubled to learn that men's teams at exit in the first while the competition were paid $8 million. forager percent greater than what the -- 400% greater than what the woman world champions were awarded. what can be done and what are you planning to do to address this

pay disparity? >> we are a strong advocate for the women's game. during the championship weekend i met with the stadium soccer association my counterpart it was the operating officer for the world cup. we addressed several things. action report being compensation. what i would call "team environment." number of hotels, number of teams at a hotel. all this kind of thing should be included in the after action report. we will continue with our fifa executive committee member to push for continued development on the women's side. one of those items of the increasing compensation for those competing and participating teams in the world cup and other competitions as well. >> thank you. i will have more questions for you on this issue.

i will submit them in writing. i think your testimony all of your testimonies have been very helpful and informative. in my view this hearing is really only the beginning of an inquiry that the congress has a responsibility to conduct. and the inquiry is only one step in a larger, their intensive in critical scrutiny that has to be given to the responsibly of the united states sports organization. we have spent a good deal of time over the last 24-48 hours talking amongst yourselves about issues of national security. and the agreement that is been reached by the administration to stop nuclear proliferation. this specifically with iran. the

power of the u.s. consistent only with his military force but its moral example. exceptionalism to rise from its values and its ethics. and the fans here and around the world deserve better from the sports organizations that have responsibility to oversee and organize the game of soccer. corruption is not again. -- a game. it is to have a serious and criminal penetrates the trust of fans, u.s. soccer. u.s. soccer had a response ability to know or should of known and the fans can judge which is worse. i want to thank you again for being here today and hope that you will continue to cooperate with our. inquiry thank you. >> this is our last round of

questions. i will bring this hearing to a conclusion. you needed a resource -- recess so we're are going to give you one. let me first say before i do that, thank you all for your testimony. this is something very important. a very serious matter. mr. flynn, i particularly achy for your testimony and i want you in our audience. are witnesses, those that are paying attention to this hearing, we absolutely want the best for u.s. soccer. the point i would make is we cannot tolerate the status quo. and other are serious consequences from that status quo, they are real and in some instances life-threatening or like taking. we don't want another decision to be made for the next site for the world cup that is subject to the allegations or the reality

that corruption continues to occur. from an individual senator i just offered to you mr. flynn to the u.s. soccer federation a chance to work in any way we can to assist you as you make the effort to make sure the status quo is -- does not continue. i thank you very much for being here to all the witnesses here. thank you for the serious nature of which we treated this topic. with that let me say a few significant words that are necessary for the record and that is the hearing -- the hearing record will remain open. for two weeks during that time senators are asked to submit any questions in writing that they have for the record. upon receipt by you the witnesses we would request that you submit when responses -- written responses to the committee soon as possible. with that i will conclude this hearing and again think the witnesses. this hearing is now

adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [indiscernible]

>> next, live. your calls on "washington journal." newsmakers with thomas perez. after that, homeland security secretary testifies of the house hearing on immigration enforcement. >> tonight on q and a, molly crabapple on her use of drawings to tell investigative stories from around the world. >> gang affiliation with the reading a book by black panther or drawing aztec patterns or having a tattoo. the pelican bay is not alone in this. around the country you can land in solitary if your art, reading, beliefs gender status, sexual orientation, or your friends.

>> i go around for the sketchbook and draw and sometimes that is not to show the finished. drawing is to build a rapport with people. when you have a big camera inputs distance between you and a person. you put that thing read from your face. they cannot see with you are taking. it is almost there. in a way. when you draw it is a vulnerable thing. you can see exactly what you are doing. it is more of an interchange. most people have not been drawn before and most people are delighted to be drawn. most of the time i drop people because i like to and i like talking to them when i do it. >> on c-span q&a tonight. >> this morning, military times reporter leo shane looks at security at u.s. military bases. later, two former international atomic energy agency officials

this gusty inspections components of the iran nuclear agreement. as always, we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is july 19, 2015 and the president is traveling to pittsburgh, pennsylvania this week for the vfw convention. on wednesday he is back in new york to appear on the daily show with jon stewart. on thursday he departs for kenya as he travels through a portion of africa. the house and senate vote -- both in session this week. the debate over the iran nuclear deal is set to dominate much the discussion on capitol hill. it has been a weekend of politics, especially in iowa.