to play the probabilities. the probability is that he had no reason to know and he did have a professional license. apologize, but i want to be able to thank you for being on the show and we are ending in less than five seconds. i have to say goodbye. thank you very much. more to learn their. john jackson, with conservation force. you can go to conservationforce.org for more information as this debate continues in this country. thank you to all of you for watching today and for participating in today's program. we will be back here tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. eastern time. enjoy the rest of your day. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]

>> several stories today about the toxic waste spill flowing down the colorado river. some epa workers were trying to fix abandoned mine pollution problems in the mountains when something went wrong. they originally were ordered one million gallons were accidentally released. they now say that it's more like 3 million gallons containing heavy metals. isnwhile, gina mccarthy speaking in washington this afternoon about carbon emissions . live coverage at 12:15. she is going to address the new regulations for reducing carbon emissions from existing power plants. that is at 12:15 eastern. c-span2 will bring you live coverage from capitol hill at noon for a discussion on the cards ready. the forum will look at the differences between chip and pin technologies and go through what

the government and retailers can do to better protect against fraud and identity theft. later today we look back at a recent senate hearing about unwanted phone calls and telephone scams aimed at seniors. the victim was there along with a technology expert. eastern. at 4:30 and after that we will open the reaction at 5:50 this afternoon. reverend al sharpton and other civil rights activist are up next on african-american views of the criminal justice system and voting rights. this is about one hour and 15 minutes. >> our first speaker needs no introduction whatsoever. he is known throughout the nation as a nearest press of a force against injustice of any kind. be it social, political or

racial. thes unafraid to bring cause to the forefront to fight for what's right. he is a good friend. his organization has worked collaboratively on many, many said lastether as i night there are tree shakers and jelly makers. the reverend al sharpton is a tree shaker par exelon's. ladies and gentlemen, please greet and welcome back to the national urban league the founder and president of the network, reverend al sharpton. [applause] ♪ sharpton: thank you. first of all, good afternoon to the national urban league. hereonored and happy to be with my friend and colleague,

the president of the national , who league, mark l'oreal has done a great job leading this organization around the country for the last decade or more in this capacity. even before that as the mayor of new orleans, give him a big hand. [applause] as we meet at the convention this year we need to be clear that we are facing a dilemma that we have not seen in decades. of realt the crossroads decisions that will impact and effect where this country and our community is going for the next half century. tomorrow you will hear from some candidates for president. they have reduced, so far, this

presidential race to a beauty contest and a soundbite contest. have not really gotten into the issues that affect our communities. we are, right now, this week remembering 50 years ago when lyndon johnson signed the medicare bill. next week, 50 years since he signed the voting right act. what no one is discussing is that if the wrong person with the wrong politics, no matter what party, gets into the white house, who they will appoint to the supreme court may end would we have had for the last half-century. there are cases of affirmative action, voting rights, women's rights, and other vital issues that will go in front of this supreme court.

this is not about who was ahead in the polls. this is about who is going to stand for the things that the national urban league and the civil rights communities forced into law a half a century ago. all of that is at stake in this election. we need more than a smile and a wave from the candidates. we need a firm commitments and firm plans on what they are going to do about unemployment disproportionately in our community. what about the income inequality? and then you have income inequality and then you have to double that in our community because all unequal people in this country are not equally on equal.

-- unequal. [applause] rev. al sharpton: many in the progressive community that invo -- have not discussed the racism involved. and then we have to deal with education and the criminal justice system. just this morning charging a university of cincinnati police officer with murder. just a week ago, it has been a year since eric gardner was choked to death on video and still nothing has happened to the justice system to bring that cop to justice. where the presidential candidates on policing, economic inequality? where are they on education? where are they on both things that dr. king -- the things that dr. king and others made law? we do not need to be

entertained, we need to be engaged with real politics. [applause] rev. al sharpton: we must begin to prepare now, whether as the national urban league or the action network or the naacp, that we are on the brink of a post obama era. we have had for seven years a black president and a black first lady and a black first family. glover wins this election will be the for -- whoever wins this election will be the first white to secede a black president. we have never been there before. [applause] rev. al sharpton: we need to see who is the one who refill is qualified to follow eight years of a person sensitive to us,

that comes from us, that will not turn around what he has began. we do not intend that when the black family leaves the white house, that black concerns leave the white house with them. [applause] rev. al sharpton: so it is not enough for them to give us the speech, the best line. not only here but everywhere. and for or five minutes at debates. the bar is higher than it ever has been raised before. after obama, he will not get away with what you got away -- you will not get away with what you got away with before. we want the real deal. we have become adjusted to the white house dealing with things from trayvon martin to black unemployment you cannot tell us anymore that on a presidential

level you cannot deal, that model has been changed. and we are not going to let it be changed again back to where we lose and where we do not continue a foreword and progressive trend. the same issue in the private sector. because we will have a harder road in the political arena, we are going to have to bear down even more. tell them that you have got to invest in the communities where you make your money, you have got to deal with not only jobs and training but procurement and contracts. it is not about civil rights organizations shaking you down, it is about you shaking down our

communities everyday. if you sell us your products and our cousins cannot get contracts and our lawyers cannot get contracts and our accountants cannot get contracts and our service industries cannot get contracts, you are shooting us down. we will stop the shakedown. we will do business with those that do business with us or we are going to stop doing business. [applause] rev. al sharpton: naturally, we must make alliances with all of those that are willing and demonstrated the ability to work shoulder to shoulder for our empowerment and equality along with fares. -- ours. there is an argument about who

suffers the most, whether it is also more women or gays or latinos -- it is us, or women, or gays, or latinos. when you are in the hospital, you all try to get well together and demand the best health care and the best medical attention. we are not trying to compare who hurts the most, we are trying to find out how we all get well together and fight together and get the proper attention. [applause] rev. al sharpton: so the task is clear. those that have led the organization for a century, we were the generation that fumbled the ball and dropped it and we

lost the gains of 50 years ago because we were too busy being entertained, being human, ego tripping, backbiting, deciding who will be out front, whether then what we are in front of. who will have the baton when the parade is not going anywhere? cares who has the baton when the parade is marching backwards? it is time to keep the parade going straight. this is our time. this is the beginning of an era when the first white will replace the first black president. we need to make sure they understand that president obama is going home. we are not going anywhere. thank you and god bless you. [applause] another front-line soldier recognized as one of the hardest working leaders in the social justice and civil rights movements is none other than melanie campbell, president and ceo and the convener of the black women's roundtable.

she is a great sister, she has the unique ability to build powerful coalitions that bring diverse people together for the common good. and she has more than 20 years of fighting for civil, youth, and women's rights. she is a true friend, a partner, and advocate, a friend of the national urban league. ladies and gentlemen, melanie campbell. [applause] melanie campbell: good afternoon, urban leaguers. good afternoon, urban leaguers. >> good afternoon. melanie campbell: i am always honored to join you and your president and ceo, my friend and brother from another mother mark.

our freedom fighter for justice reverend al. this year i am so honored to have my mom here with me. mrs. janet campbell. and my big brother, isaac campbell jr. and my colleague tyson. if they would stop and stand? [applause] melanie campbell: lady in red. i am a native floridian and those who know me know i always talk about my home in florida. i also want to welcome all of you here to my home state of florida. urban leaguers, we are one week away from the 50th anniversary of the signing of the voting rights act. you heard reverend sharpton talk about. it was precipitated by bloody sunday in selma, alabama.

it was signed into law by president johnson. congress later amended the act five times to expand its protections and has always done it in a bipartisan manner. two years ago the u.s. supreme court gutted the law in the name of so-called states rights by striking down section four, making it nearly impossible for the u.s. justice department to do its job to protect our rights. last month, a bipartisan group of lawmakers led by democrats introduced legislation to remedy the supreme court actions and introduced the voting rights investment act. in the meantime -- advancement act. in the meantime, states have

created barriers like id laws and restrictive hours and access to polling places. this is outrageous. so urban leaders, now -- league rs, now is the time for you and i to act by contacting congressional representatives and demanding they hold a hearing in order to path the voting rights investment act. we need this to protect our voting rights in time for the 2016 presidential election. i know your theme for the conference is save our cities.

education, jobs, and justice. if we want to save our cities, we need to protect our vote. we know, we have living proof, our votes to count. -- do count. lest we forget, black voter turnout was the key for president obama being elected in 2008 in 2012 to be the first african american president. lest we forget, in 2012 black voter turnout increase surpassed white americans for the first time in history. and we are the secret sauce, leading the way for the voters. [applause] melanie campbell: young black women led the way in 2012. the black women's roundtable are organizing in partnership with the national urban league and

others because we all know that if sisters vote and black youth vote, great, great things happen. lest we forget that if we want quality education for our children, we need a strong voting rights act to protect our vote. lest we forget, if we need quality jobs -- want quality jobs and an end to hide black unemployment, we need a strong voting rights act. lest we forget, if we believe that black lives matter and we want to end the senseless killings of our young black men, our women and children by law enforcement in vigilantes, we need a strong -- and vigilantes, we need a strong voting rights act. you know how i am, i am from a

baptist church. so please stand up. i know you all have had a long day. and repeat after me. that was the time for action. -- now is the time for action. >> now is the time for action. melanie campbell: we cannot allow anyone to block us from voting. >> we cannot allow anyone to block us from voting. melanie campbell: not on our watch. >> not on our watch. melanie campbell: we will not go back. >> we will not go back. melanie campbell: that was the time to move forward. >> now is the time to move forward. melanie campbell: speeches will not do it. >> speeches will not do it. melanie campbell: but voting will do it. >> voting will do it. melanie campbell: thank you, peace and power. [applause] mark: thank you, melanie, and we are glad to have you on our side. and now, our moderator for the plenary session needs no introduction. he is the host and managing editor of tv one's news one now and anchors the first daily morning news program in history to focus on news and analysis of

politics, entertainment, sports, and culture from an explicitly african-american perspective. ladies and gentlemen, roland martin. [applause] roland martin: so how are we doing? that is it? you all just had lunch or something? so how are we doing? glad to be here. i literally just got off of the plane and i am here to ours and i have to fly to -- two hours and i have to fly to l.a.. before we get started, where are the houston people? if you are not from houston, you do not get the shot out. [laughter] -- shout out.

[laughter] roland martin: our panel -- we will set the ground rules. i did not fly here to regurgitate the problem. the panel is to talk about solutions, how we are going to achieve that on some of the issues. and when we gather next year, we should be able to look back and say this is what we are accomplishing as opposed to the same conversation year after year. that is of no interest to me whatsoever. let's get right to it. first off, he is an attorney in florida. you should congratulate him, he is the newly elected president of the national bar association. [applause] roland martin: next up, michael mcmillan. [applause] roland martin: karen freeman wilson, the mayor of gary, indiana. [applause] last but not nieces wrote -- not least is reverend jamaal from maryland. [applause]

they also reminded me if you are tweeting use the #saveourcities. i want to deal with voting last and get right to police accountability and criminal justice reform. we saw yesterday for the first time in cincinnati history, a police officer was indicted for killing somebody. we have 15 black men killed in cincinnati over a period of five years. you heard the prosecutor say that without body cameras we would not be having that conversation and he would not be being indicted. what are you seeing? i want to start with you, in

your city, do they have body cameras? to make sure that every agency has body cameras to protect them and the public? karen freeman wilson: the first thing is that we are starting a trial with body cameras but i want to disabuse us of the notion that body cameras are the be-all and end-all. they are a piece of technology that can be used but you have to draw back to recruitment, make sure the right people are on the bus. deal with the disciplinary issue, with how we trained police officers to de-escalate situations. roland martin: the reason i want to start with the cameras is because there is so much attention placed on it and that is something for the folks sitting here, when they go home, there has to be something they are pushing and driving to get on.

we have seen it in los angeles and houston. what is that for oil? describe the trial in your city. roland martin: what we -- karen freeman wilson: we are looking to do is to put body cameras on every police officer on duty. the thing about body cameras is you canada 20 or 30, you have to have the full equipment. you have to store the tapes and that is a costly proposition. the good news is that the justice department has put some money out that will allow a number of departments to do that and gary is one of those that is doing that but there have to be more. roland martin: there are 600,000 law enforcement officers in america. south carolina is pushing for a

more comprehensive deal. we saw it where there was a veto for the body camera and freddie gray gets killed and now it is back on. again, that is one of those issues that is a part of police accountability that people can latch onto and when they go back home, save the start is to make this happen. >> i am absolutely for the mayor of baltimore to explore whether we needed it. an attorney in the earlier sessions that if you do not recorded, it did not happen. it is the first time in the 20th century that a white officer was arrested for killing a black person, the incident with walter scott in north charleston. we are 37% of those killed by the police. think about what would have happened, because they had a false report in charleston, s.c.. roland martin: the cincinnati officer lied as well. >> it goes back to why the body cameras are so needed. where would we be or would we

even know the name of sandra if we did not have the cameras? they are so critical and so important so we have to lift up the veil and let police officers know that they are accountable. roland martin: as a civil rights attorney, the reality is that we have had four cops indicted. the most consistent thing, all caught on video. there is the situation where it is the cop's word versus the victim, the cop wins out. >> what is so critical with having the body cameras is that for so many years the standard police narrative was in line with what the law and american said -- in america said.

all the officer had to say was that i was in fear for my life. and if he says that, the court has to accept that as correct. they cannot challenge that unless you have overriding evidence to contradict the standard police narrative. all he has is subjective belief that he was in fear. they say that black men are the most fearful people in america if you believe the media. even 12-year-old tamir rice, they treat us like men. trayvon, they say that he looked like a grown-up. our children are dangerous and we are in fear of our lives so we are justified in using deadly force. but with these body cameras, with cell phone videos, with dash cam videos, it continues to contradict the standard police

narrative over and over. it did it with alisha thomas in the los angeles police department and for the first time in a long time you had a cop get convicted and the judge to the maximum because it was captured on video where this sister was handcuffed and shackled and the officer kicked her in her female genitals seven times and choked her and she died in their custody. touching that not died in their custody you would believe it was business -- how did she not died in their custody you would believe it was business as usual. -- had she not god in their custody you would believe it was business as usual -- died in their custody you would believe it was business as usual. that was the first time since oscar grant that they convicted

a police officer in california and auster grant only got six months. at least she got six months -- oscar grant only got six months. at least she got three years. roland martin: i want to remind people about what happened in st. louis. a young man, mentally disturbed, takes energy drinks from a store. they call the police and it literally was 16 seconds from the moment the door was open until he was shot. run of they did not knife. it was a butter it that ifssouri has there's a certain amount of distance between you and the perpetrator, the cops can use deadly force. that is what happened, no issues, didn't go to grand jury.

michael mcmillan: that was another disgrace. roland martin: and we saw the whole thing. michael mcmillan: going back to the body camera conversation, but we have to add is an monitoring group on the footage. isoften, they say, my camera broke, or it malfunction. we need an independent entity to

get the video to prove what is really happening. roland martin: in chicago, there was a so-called independent police review board as well. who aree folks here working in the cities, and there are so many things that can be under the banner of police accountability. you wantone thing people to leave here to fight for 10 act, what would it be? pastor jamal harrison bryant: i , and the independent board also -- if you have to live in copcity, you have to be a

in the city. if you consider and baltimore come over 40% of the officers don't live in the city. when you have a neighborhood understanding the police officers, that there are not the enemy, but citizens on central, in tandem.rt working number one, independent review board. number two, require offices be from the city. karen freeman wilson: to have an review, either through the prosecutor's office or special profit tutors is helpful and really important and communities. i want you to stay right there. what happened with eric garner,

all these folks were calling for president obama and congress to do that, but the reality is, what people don't understand is these are safe havens. the federal government does not have prosecution of special secutors. there was a car accident, someone called for help, they knocked on the doors, they thought they would try to break in, the cops arrive. three officers on the scene, to why, one black. pharehot and killed phara ll. the second grand jur in guided, and that trial starts -- grand jury indicted, and that

trial starts monday. in new york, they ordered an independent examiner. the federal government can't do that, it has to be a state change, not a federal change. -wilson: even wa at the local level, local persecutors can request special prosecutors and certain instances. the power is there, it's a matter of pushing for requesting, insisting on it. the other thing is that if we treat this as a one fixed problem, then we will consistently be where we are. we have to deal with this in a comprehensive way. it's about job creation, education, police accountability

, and certainly about having a multifaceted movement. city where we have seen problems occur, it has been wholly disrupted. even if you say you are not moved by compassion, and i think we all should be, you should be moved by the fact that this could disrupt your business in the community. the reason i'm trying to individually identify things to work on is because i think what happens is whenever we have copperheads of conversations, we wait for there to be comprehensive deals to focus on, instead of saying, let me grab low hanging fruit. karen freeman wilson: the good news is we now have documents.

if you look at the consent decrees that have come out of cleveland and other places, that is something that communities, the urban league, throughout the country can pull down and say to their police chief, to their leadership, is our police department in alignment with these documents? benjamin crump: i think that we all focus erroneously sometimes on the police officers. they are the low man on the totem pole when we talk about criminal justice. league's outurban there, what we have to look at is the top of the criminal justice system, what happens in the courts? these grand jury proceedings, these secret proceedings where the prosecutor gets grand jury except 99.9% of the time when it is our children learning

debt on the ground and they say, no, we cannot indict the officer . it has to be grand jury reform, and we have to really look at it and think about it. when they had the 50th anniversary of selma, we were talking with congressman john lewis and freddie gray, all of my heroes in the civil rights movement. ,ichael brown had just happened and they were talking about selma to ferguson. they said, 50 years ago, when we work crossing the independence bridge, it wasn't the kkk that attacked us, it was the police officers. stillrs later, they're doing it, and the reason they are allowed to do is because the community stakeholders are allowing them to do it. the powers that be are allowing them to do it. [applause] if we stop allowing them to do it, it will stop.

there is a direct connection between how we vote, who we vote for, and seeing these changes. youael, i want to go to first. bob macola, prosecutor, st. louis, one of the most egregious actors seen. he has been elected repeatedly. he is a democrat. the governor of missouri, jay nixon, democrat. the president praised his work afterwards, i don't understand why, but the point i am making is i know urban lake is nonpartisan, but macola runs unopposed. if you look at the da in brooklyn, the reason the cops gurley -- a black

prosecutor -- the reason you have 30 people freed from death row in texas is because an african-american put in place a group to go back and recheck cases that were controversial. 30 people were freed. the point there is what do you tell folks here to say, yes, you can fight for changes, but if we rr and that person is not doing the job, then we are still losing because the prosecutor is the one who is deciding, at the end of the day, who will be indicted and who will not. michael mcmillan: there is no question. we have done about job when it comes to voting. when you talk about the commitment to the african-american community, it is verbalized on a regular

basis, but sometimes you don't see results. it has been disappointed. -- disappointing. in ferguson, we really had one member of the city council when mike brown died. luckily, we have gotten to the point where we have half. we are getting to the point where we are educating people more, but we have a lot more work to do. arvo, in many cases, has been taken for granted. it is assumed that 99% of the african-american community will vote democratic and we will be fine. that is -- that should no longer be acceptable. if you arein: registered to vote, you will not be called for jury duty, and again, one of those things, in terms of folks who work on -- let's be honest, how many of you have gotten a jury summons? damn!

wilson: it's true. martin: again, you talk about what folks can do, i believe the national urban when they gors, back, should figure out campaigns, make it clear that serving on a duty is also part of black life matter -- block lives matter. that is soump: important. it is so heartbreaking when you walk in a courtroom and you see some black potential jurors, and they proceed to do everything in their godly power to get off of jury duty. they could make all the difference in the world. white folks do it too, but there are not enough of us in the pool in the first place. benjamin crump: in a lot of ways

trayvon brought a lot of these issues to life. they are working on the book trayvon -- do you know that they had at least 30% of black people that they sent out for potential jury service and about 74% of them came up with reasons why they could not serve on jury duty. tragicagine if, in the killing of trayvon martin, you have more people that can understand despite the efforts tos' best defend the honor and value of a , whichlack man's life was a fish out of water experience for them because they are so used to prosecute them, but those black people that got out of jury duty could have

written history. we have to do it. reverend sharpton talked about this. he said, you want to see a cop get charged? yeah. he said, are you registered? can't be on a you jury. part of this issue that goes into voting is we have to recognize that whe what you don't know, you don't know. a lot of people don't know the process. i believe this is where urban league chapters have to say, wait a minute, you have to have .oter education yes. maybe you create the campaign of folks who actually serve on juries. we see these stickers that say, "i served what about, on a jury."

jamal harrison bryant: we have get out to vote. we have to remind people why they are voting. other part that is so necessary just voting for black faces, if they don't have a black agenda. [applause] we have to get beyond symbolic people who say we have a black state attorney or black commissioner. if d.c. is chocolate city, we .udged up we have black city counselor, black attorney, black police commissioner, and still do not have black justice or black economic development. [applause] going into this presidential cycle, we have to ask what it is -- you say this all the time and i have stolen it from you, and the only reason i'm giving you credit is because you are here -- what is the ask? people running for the

republican party and six in the democratic, what are we asking for? going into this election, we have to go clear on what our ask is. ile the urban the is nonpartisan, the i-aa cp, the church is, i want to be mindful chosehe black electorate the presidency twice. if we did not get out the vote, a black family would not be in the white house. here we are going into the next not a blackhere is person on the ticket. we cannot give our lunch away without having some mandated requirement of what we are looking for. roland martin: again, i'm focused on what is tangible, what is real. you heard melanie, reverend sharpton, they were time of the issue of voting.

the naacp, august 1, are starting their a hundred mile mile journey 800 to justice. i said, ok, you are going to arrive in d.c. on september 15, but the question i have is are we going to draw 500-1000 people on capitol hill every day until they reauthorize the voting rights act? this is where organization comes in. the question i have, that one you to answer is one, you are right, organizations cap endorse, but they can be involved in issues. do you believe that individual urban league chapters should be, right now, asking the question, who are the members of congress from our city and area, and we are going to hit their congressional offices every week

and demand how they are going to vote when it comes to the voting rights act. you don't always have to come to d.c., you should be making noise in your respective cities. [applause] wilson: that is absolutely the case. i want to go back to what yant said because over the years, they have almost tried to frighten the civil organizations. the sororities, the churches. you are involved in actions that may jeopardize your nonprofit status. supporting aut candidate, it is really about the issues. they should be involved, not just in voter registration -- that is the first step. you have to get people to participate. you have to clarify the issues so that you can galvanize the people.

for the urbant league, for the naacp, for the sororities, for the fraternities , not only to be involved, but not to be run off with the first says,r first article that these nonprofit organizations are engaged in illegal activity. jamal harrison bryant: i wanted to get back i think this is the look atre we have to the nonprofit status. we have to have the freedom to say what we need to say, when we need to say it without the fear that we will lose corporate sponsorship, if in fact it is about the advancement of our people. some of that needs to be put aside. we need to form our own pacs,

and do something that puts us in a different place rather than a glorified welfare society. leaguemartin: urban chapters from virginia stand up. virginia. a republican is the chair of the house -- i didn't say sit down. anything in the voting rights act will go through his committee. you should organize people going to his congressional office in virginia and make it clear, and deal with them every single day, hitting him every single week and saying, you need to act. he is from virginia. y'all have some homework. you can sit down now. [applause] how we areump:

talking by getting ready for the 2016 election,-- people who think diametrically opposite of us are getting ready. no, no, they're getting ready. they started eight years ago. benjamin crump: they are passing all caps of laws to disenfranchise -- all kinds of laws to disenfranchise our people. to put the lease officers at the polls, to intimidate us, and stop us from voting. what we are focused on is that we will challenge them, and we are not concerned about our corporate sponsorship or status because the fundamental right in america is your right to vote. vote for the prosecutor, vote for the judge. become few sometimes with the

presidential vote i think that is the most important vote. man, you go down to that courthouse, and the most important vote in many cases is that the. judge whether your child goes to jail or not. you tell me what is more important, to vote for the prosecutor or the president? your time on jury duty? about jurytalking duty? just one person being in that six,-- in florida, we have in st. louis, they have 12. one african-american who has the courage to say, i will be on this jury, and i am going to be fair, and go back in that room youngcide the fate of his

black person today makes all the difference in the world. your vote really does count when you are on jury duty. [applause] i wanted tollan: add one thing. in addition to voting, we need to volunteer as individuals to candidates who are working for the best interest of the community. [applause] we need to get out, make sure we give our time, and also contribute to them. we expect people to run for office, and get funded by , andrations and pacs unions, and then turn around and tell all those people who donated money to them, we will not be bothered by your interests now. that is living in a fantasy. the reality is people who give large contributions to elected officials will always have access to those officials. we need to contribute to people and give up our time and talent so that we can have our own

individual stand up. roland martin: before we go to q&a, i will give you another h homework assignment. y'all send video of protesting and meeting with these people locally to send to me. it is my show. here is my point. if we don't actually mobilize organizers ourselves, who will do it? we should be able to utilize our outlets. let me say this here. i don't think we even understand , these are the nationally syndicated morning shows the target black people. , dougyner, steve harvey banks, yolanda h adams, show, i havepton's

a show, d.l. hughley. all of these shows literally blanket black america. if we are not utilizing our apparatus, we are wasting our resources. league tourban send us videos. we're not putting the pressure -- when it comes to the voting rights reauthorization, ill for 2.5the beal years. we have to apply the pressure and go to them and say, we will bug you every day. we did this when it came with that kocher. -- with loretta lynch. fromcochran -- who is mississippi? he is from mississippi.

, and heto his office said, we won't meet with you, and we said, we are going. he is like 90 years old -- i look to dead in the eye and said, let it be clear, you are not here without black people because you will lose to the tea party person unless black people crossed over and voted in the primary. he was like, i understand, i hear you. you know he voted for loretta lynch. go i'm not saying that is but if we don't show up to demand he vote a certain way, he will do whatever he wants. we will go to questions. i don't have a problem cutting you off. i want to hear questions, tight, and concise. cut youo along, i will

off and summarize your question. ok? five people here, no one else get in line. three here, no one else get in line. i will start here. go. is lauren robinson. my question is how do we bridge the gap forgot people, -- for with people, millennial's organizations like the naacp, the urban league? jamal harrison bryant: we keep looking for a ceremony where people will hand over the baton. every revolution that has happened in the history of the world, young people have always done it. if they don't pass you a torch, atches.ack of mea it is up to us to take the movement happening now from ferguson to baltimore to is young people.

you don't need permission. sign your own permission slip and do it. we learn from the elders, but we can't wait on them. from a historic perspective, the student nonviolent coordinating committee, they did not ask for permission. in fact, it dr. king wanted to control them, they said no, they wanted to be independent. youngleague has officials. stop waiting. mobilize and organize. i need you to make this point as well. all of these millennial's need to cut out this "we don't have leaders." let me be clear. you cannot change a system by saying, "it will be a collective thing." cc had a hierarchy.

. all isuestion to you what strategies do you recommend on how we can identify corporate structures who do not have our interest and support particular politicians? roland martin: such as? >> politicians who may be here tomorrow. roland martin: who wants it? michael? when you lookan: at corporate structures and how they interact with the community, the are multiple levels. reverend sharpton was here earlier talking about something very significant. we support these major institutions. you see in many cases, they don't have african-american members of the board of directors, they don't have a procurement policy, and no charitable and civic engagement support with the african-american community. those are the kinds of things

that roland was talking about, getting information out in the .lack media sources so we will stop supporting these companies. theme give them money that they in turn will not give to us. that is what we need to change in terms of dialogue around the country. [applause] real quick, you cannot be satisfied because they gave $50,000 for the event. follow me here because if you look at the pay structure of some of your corporate folks, if folks are making high six or seven figure salaries, they have the capacity to give back to the organization more than what the corporation gave. with a check for a able at a banquet other than bigger check.

reverend sharpton is forcing dramatic change. tel announced an initiative of hiring minorities because of pressure. with apple, they are trying to do the same thing. they bought shares, with the right to talk to the shareholders meeting. part of these deals with politicians and how we force change is stopping happy because they bought -- stop being happy because they bought a table. go back to listen to the mountaintop speech, the whole speech. he talks about economic boycotts. welcome to fort lauderdale, everyone. to bringion -- i want the conversation a bit younger. there is a huge disconnect, not only with millennial's, the important of voting for local

elections. die, here comes governor scott again. how do we not only bridge that gap, but currently in curriculum in the education system, k-12, we don't have african-american history? there is such a huge disconnect about the importance of that. how do we bring you down some. younger. k-12. wilson: i think it is incredibly important that we understand how every elected office impacts us. you talk about curriculum. who determines that curriculum? it is not really the teacher. it is not even the principal. it is the school board. roland martin: or state school board. ilson: one of wa

the easiest offices to run for is that state school board position. that is something that millennial could run for. the gun people could galvanize behind and really make a difference. then you are having a conversation, and having it from a position of power. the first thing is, look at the election results and say, i know how many i need to get, rep. republicans didn't used to control texas. how did they take over texas? they first took over the state board of education. malcolm xison bryant: said that we are the only oppressed people who allow oppressed people to -- who allow people to oppressed our children. i think we have to do something all year round that is instituted in our local chapters of the urban league and black church so we do not just

celebrate blackness in february because in august we will still be black. roland martin: i will give you two things. i'm a huge believer in, and i don't think anyone disagrees -- black people were the first believers in school choice. we created school choice. the reason you have publicly financed education in the south is because during reconstruction, we took our offices and put them in the state constitution. it amazes me to say we are not .own with charter we are fighting against their own advancement. that is the most ridiculous thing i have heard. other thing is freedom schools. i don't need white folks to educate my kids. they have been creating these

freedom schools across the country through churches. it also used to be called sunday school and some places as wall. as well. you can create a freedom school, you don't have to ask anyone permission. pastors, stand up. [laughter] do you have a freedom school? you can start one tomorrow. do you have one? you had it? ?- how long have you had it you had a freedom school for 20 years. i'd ask you to sit down. here's what is going to happen. look at him. when the program is over, you are going to be with him, and you will talk to him about how he ran the freedom school. you can start tomorrow. western. [applause] i told you, we don't have a lot of time. i have a plane to catch.

lgbtqch like the l community has marriage equality, in st. louis, we are going to addresses reform that the african-american community. can you identify some other key issues, specific issues, that you can share with individuals in this room that will be direct action? i think the theme of support is good, but it is so general. [applause] wilson: earlier, reverend bryant was talking about require law-enforcement to live in community. i know in the state of indiana it says they have to live in continuous counties. when you get out of gary, it is rural, you can imagine what some

of the officers think. to specifically advocate at the state and local level for officers to be required to live in communities, or allow it to be part of the city charter. roland martin: that is one. real quick, go. theer candidate for governor of florida. the question is since the right to vote is a constitutional right -- roland martin: actually it is not. it doesn't exist. there is no affirmative right to vote at all in the united states constitution. no.oint is it says you cannot be discriminated against. there is no right to vote. that is why in ohio, they tried to get a voting rights bill that puts it in the state constitution, instead of the federal.

>> i was wondering why prisoners and express this art allowed to vote. >> here is the deal. in florida, you have a governor that signed an executive order, but that is not law. crump: president obama got votes. florida is always a tossup. it is simply your governor doing an executive order, making the difference. that is why you have to go vote. roland martin: many republican governors are actually better on this issue than some democrats. that's why and saying, forget the r.nd question? >> good evening. roland martin: right to the

question. national urban league support of elected officials? roland martin: they can't. the 501(c)(3) status says you positions, not actual candidates. >> can mike millon clarify on how to -- michael mcmillan clarify on that? michael mcmillan: as an individual, we can volunteer, vote, and donate. roland martin: question? wilson: i would say money is keyed. i'm not just saying that because i'm elected. [laughter]

it is essential that we have are donating to a candidate. hours, theyn: and said, you have to vote for merit, and he said, no, i want to own one. >> how much training to police officers in your community ?eceive and engaging those with mental health issues? we have aman wilson: great program where police officers received two days of training on mental health. we have a new unit that allows police officers to take people, who they believe have mental problems to that institute. thing we have been very strong on is de-escalation. trying to get police officers to

understand, yes, you have the gun and badge, that means you really have the power, and you don't have to use any of that. benjamin crump: i have been encouraging police officers to say that they will be not the peacekeepers, but the peacemakers. they don't think like that. i think, i'm going to make you do what i think -- no, no. mcmillan: in st. louis, that was a problem we had. person with mental illness, and he was dead and 16 .econds comments?tin: final it isfreeman wilson:

comprehensive. there are blueprints out there, but it has to be community german. that is a role that not only urban lake, but all of our community organizations, has to follow. resist,rrison bryant: resist, resist. organize, organize, organize. pray, pray, pray. roland martin: when you feel the sense of urgency, it is because i'm sick and tired of us having gatherings where we talk, discuss, but then we don't talk about real action plans. here is what happens. least 15-20 things that you can do leaving here. here is what i would suggest. next year, -- first of all, they should take all of the ideas that came out of this discussion and e-mail it to each and every one of you. that is first.

then, what they need to do is allow you to decide as a chapter, what will you focus on. when you come back here next year, report on what you did. it is a waste of time to talk about what we need to work on, and then don't come back with -- discussedhat, we jus at last year, and implemented it . i would be happy to come back to have a discussion of what you accomplish, but i'm not coming back to have another discussion on what we need to do. freedom schools -- as a matter fact, stand up,, down. right now.alk i'm only about us getting stuff done. there is no time to talk, it is time for us to get to work. thanks a lot. [applause]

>> here is a look at our live coverage today. i knew it eastern on c-span 2, from capitol hill, a discussion on credit card security. a form will look at the difference between chip and pin technology. here on c-span, meanwhile, we will be live at 12:15 with epa .dministrator gina mccarthy she will adjust the agency's plan for reducing carbon emissions from existing carbon plants. president obama unveiled that new rule last week. later today, we look back at a senate hearing on unwanted phone calls and telephone scams aimed at seniors. a victim was at the hearing, along with a technology expert.

that begins at 4:30 eastern this afternoon. we will follow that with your phone calls and reactions. overnight, police arrested nearly two dozen people in ferguson, missouri during a protest that stretched into early this morning. it was a one-year anniversary of the death of 18-year-old michael brown that was followed last year by riots. a county spokesperson says that firedwa were no shots last night. next up, a look at the history and causes of urban riots. analysts look at the differences between forms of resistance and how communities respond to unrest, including police methods. this is about one hour.

>> to my left, robin dg kelley, a noted author of books and articles that are focused on the intersection of the .frican-american experience perhaps his most well-known book is the biography of thelonious monk. he is also the author of a forthcoming study on race and riots in the u.k. and the u.s. holly mitchell, if i say so myself, is the conscience of the california state legislator. by that, i mean that she has not been indicted. [laughter] [applause] mitchell: and wil won't be. state was elected to the senate in 2014 in the district

that runs from century city down l.a. south of she is known in the legislator as a person who really is a champion of children, homeworkers, and the kind of people they get left out of the state budget, and then she goes to combat with jerry brown, and others, and wins things for these folks. max herman is an assistant professor of sociology and other apology avenue jersey city university. books is a history of the detroit briots. he is also on the board of trustees of the jewison association -- jewish association of new jersey.

is the 50th anniversary of the 1965 watts riots. i'm reminded of the fact that the l.a.riots started, times realize it's not have a single african-american reporter. they did have one african-american on the business staff. i'm also reminded of the fact that with the 1992 l.a. riots, which i covered for "l.a. weekly," kcrw realized it needed to more coverage of the inner-city here. one thing we know that riots can have an effect on is because relatively liberal media to pay more attention to the inner-city. a question is what else do they do? i will ask questions that elicit

answers from the panel. let me start with robin. i think what of the things that americans often forget is that before the riots of the last 50 , they took as different complexion in american history. talk about that for a minute. robin dg kelley: i'm happy to. riots in thef united states is more comparable p -- youstory of wherehese instances african-americans are victims of violence during you go back to .incinnati you go back to the memphis riots . you think about one of my favoritess -- not in a good

about you think wilmington, north carolina which was literally a coup d'etat in which white democrats overthrew a republican government through force of arms. in the 20th century, you have ulsa. in this case, the change was the destruction of black economic and social institutions. or, another one of my favorites, 150-200 louis in which african-americans were killed by mobs. in that level of violence, headlines saying, make east st. town.a lily white you have instances of white .omen engage in commodity riots

they would go to african-american households and ,tole their lands, the rugs often at gunpoint, as a way to bring what they think of as some kind of leveling. that kind of violence would characterize much of the riots up until about 1964. some exceptions with harlem. for the most part, the modern riot that we think of, which is the commodity riot, and insurrections against state violence, really begin in the early 1960's. obviously in the riots that robin was just talking about, the police probably stood aside or joined .n the riots, in our lifetimes, have become accustomed to riots

in which the role of the police is usually the spark. it is the acquittal of the police. i have been away from l.a. for a while. have police practices in the city changed? do you think they have changed enough so that people can think of riots here as a thing of the past, or not really? senator mitchell: i don't think people can think of riots as a thing of the past. in, we coulds w have another one. really. i recognize in recent conversations with my colleague, the majority leader of maryland, talking about my teenage son. aresimilar to the of p

people after sporting victory. that is his orientation with the riot. has improved since the watts rebellion, where the initiation was a shooting police to the current day? absolutely. do we still have improvements to make, when you look at the black lives matter campaign? we absolutely do. as with all race, class, and cultural clashes across the country, i think any number of commissions, any number of laws have been put on the books, any number of reports to impact police culture, who the police are, the whole notion of diverse ify the police have come over the decades, and we still have

room to go. harold meyerson: you have predicted that there will be riots in the summer. max herman: i do think that will happen. i think these events run in cycles and it has been diffusion. i want to go back to a comment that holly made. you mentioned the word "rebellion," we had been using riot and rebellion and your change of the. -- using riot and rebellion interchangeably. if you call it a riot, it implies that there is no issue involved or the motivation is to go out and basically, as one

scholar put it, riot for fun and pleasure. is alion implies that it reaction to injustice. other thing is it has been a mischaracterization of some of these events that they are violence perpetuated by vice against whites, when in reality, much of the violence certainly starting in the 1960's, was by the police and national guard. one of the clear factors in detroit, in newark, and watts, it hardly anyone was killed in the first day or so. people only begin to be killed when the national guard, and the police take more of an aggressive position. meyerson: it was soon after the 1960's riots that we began to see the white backlash. certainly the election of reagan as governor, running against

watts. for that matter, the election in 1993 was " tough enough to turn l.a. around." i never thought that he would be ots.ted, absent those ri the massive incarceration of young blacks, young black men, really begins on the crazy wholesale scale that we have ots. after these ri the rockefeller drug laws are passed then. the kinds of laws that never existed during prohibition. clearly, a distinction there. much of the criminalization of young black ifn followed logically -- that is the word -- from these

uprisings? robin dg kelley: two things. a lot of people put much emphasis on the kerner commission report that came out after the riots and rebellions. one of the problems is that the , inal policy initiative most cities, was to increase law and order. it wasn't so much to engage in social reforms, improve conditions in black urban communities, but rather -- baltimore is a good example. they put out their own commission report. what if that is we need more weapons, more teargas, and more cops. in some cases, you have a ramping up of the militarization of the police force in response. in terms of the criminal invasion of urban youth -- the criminalization of urban youth,

there are two sources. 1970's, source of the and are reasons for that that we can talk about. some of it has to do with building prisons as a way to deal with the economic crisis. there is a book out called "the first civil right," and it talks about that it is in the truman era, that gave the criminalization -- gave the architecture for criminalization to deal with racist violence, but it gets flipped. the same architecture and set being used to incarcerate large numbers of poor working-class people. in the 1950's, 1960's, where you see more arrests., more res

that is why part of the anger against the police has to do with the fact that this architecture is already in motion, and more and more people by being arrested, harassed the police. as the backdrop. result of was not the one incident, but a wave of bill parker. good old parker. holly, shortly after the 1992 riots -- as the weekly, we use the word riots because i kept arguing that we would come out with the most left-wing analysis of any other paper. we consciously went with the ots.""ri shortly after this, the hotel union in the city, which was an interesting union, put out a

video called "city on the brink ," which kind of conflated -- in an ingenious way -- the underpayment of the city's hotel workers about the riot noting that the 19 a to write was certainly multiracial -- god knows. genesis of the formation of the l.a. alliance for new economy. i'm trying to think of any kind of progressive outcomes in the city from riots. l.a. was a total flop, and everybody knew that from the start. this is an effort in which mayor bradley appointed the hero i don't thinkcs --

the rebuilding parts have worked anywhere. in terms of engendering any kind of movement, getting more attention by activists themselves. holly: tom bradley was the lone black cop and lapd. there was a shift in primary so many programs and services came into the area. in 1992, not so much.

aalso see a nexus between success soul -- a successful olympics and the rebuilding of a city. outside of l.a. -- we are such a segregated city. recognize there are deserts where supermarkets never returned. boys market never returned. there are a lot -- there are plots of land were services never returned. ,here is a few desert issue

something we lost of the 1992 unrest and there are generations who will suffer as a result. harold: much is made of the ferguson events. this is a majority black city with -- nonetheless why it's are the governing lass, most a lot did officials. when you see what went on in cleveland, for instance, it is withgic carpet, a city african-american elected officials. in baltimore --

whatever the socialization of releases, or does that leave us in terms of you can achieve political power and still have the same mess? harold: i think there was a lot about them is it when black political officials were elected. butthe faces had changed the nature of the system had not. you're still talking about machine politics. talking about the backlash after the ride in the 1960's in particular, resources went into law and order and there was this kind of politics of resentment where whites not only left physically the cities, but money basically, during

you have officials that didn't controlled the goodies. but simply risk -- but civilly replacing one set of people with another is no guarantee when you you -- when you need large systematic change. holly: i represent just under a million l.a. county residents of all walks of life. overgives me no control major financial institutions who provide loans to businesses and allow people -- and homeowners to buy homes and invest in your community.

it gave me minimal control over how many african-american students can be admitted to ucla. but i play a critical role in the governess -- governance in this state. i am also clear that i could not stop a bank from closing its hillsride at the baldwin and the jungle. while i do have powers as a state senator, there are major areas of the economy that i don't. and that doesn't change. and those of the major drivers that lead to the conditions of where people live, that lead to rebellion. harold: after for african americans were elected to

aties like detroit, you elect mayor and you think the mayor has a power to make everything change and be more responsive in the city, yet their powers are increasingly limited. robin: this may be gets us to the city versus suburb versus excerpt. weeks, theretwo has been a supreme court acision, that would have been big deal, but more teeth into

the 1968 housing thing and the obama administration has announced a program. all of this directed to compelling cities outside, and areas -- cities outside. any thoughts have whether we are actually going to see socioeconomic housing integration, which seems to be -- third rail doesn't even describe that. but there is a move at least by the administration and a court ruling that seems to be trying to push along. robin: tied to your question, -- we see lawhink

and order as a transformation for the post 1968 period. another major policy shift, but ideological shift, a liberal shift, where we have different elements. guidance ineasing cities. on social programs, especially for young programs, to survive. has a becomes an issue because you have massive cutbacks. in in a -- even in a democratic administration. that's thel as he -- the ideology of investment. city, on -- a

detroit is a city, under , peoplel management were disenfranchised. so a system falling apart based on this idea that you can ceo your way into a different future to theo come back question of integrated housing, i think that is a huge issue. but it can go nowhere without adequate housing. we are in los angeles. we are right downtown. we are right in the largest homeless populations in the world. spends 6 million dollars, $7 million to police the area, not to actually provide homeless services.

in some respects, if we cannot issue oft problem, the integrated housing is not the answer. detroit is surrounded by affluent suburbs. this issue of integrating suburban city is very important. part of the backlash that occurred after the riots was that why people who had tried to the suburbs didn't want to contribute money to services to the inner cities. that is continuing. i live in new jersey. folks up the hill in monarch new jersey feel that their funds are going to the so-called undeserving poor who live in the city. it is shocking that we are part of the same county. but some of those folks in the

suburbs have not actually gone into newark, which is only for five miles away. in over 25 years. of somehow forcing suburbs to accept more affordable housing and doing more to integrate the city and the suburbs is a very critical issue. max: we have seen not a riot, targeted,ive sort of symbolic violence, i would say, say in the mission district of busesancisco against the taking the high tech elite -- it is taking a place -- it is taking place at a time where all things are exacerbating the

affordable housing crisis. this is a city where the wages are nowhere -- i think zillow the gapudy where between wages and what it takes to get a one bedroom or two bedroom is greater than any worlds. holly: we hear from developers all the time to talk about, because of additional policies a cities adding to the question, it is more costly to build here. downtown, the old fra aro's, the rosslyn and the alexandria. there was a survey in the 1980's

to determine how many kids lived on skid row and now there is law. we looked at the largest family, families with double door refers --ders and four-born or four-burner stoves. max: is there any way to say copsye to what periodically and sometimes systemically provoke? have we seen training? -- ofe seen any of the's this stuff the deal with the socialization process?

some fraction of cops are always going to be thugs or racists. holly: no one wants to see the cops go away. while the african-american trinity is not a monolithic -- [laughter] [applause] therge part of african-american impunity is more conservative than i am. there are a lot of black homeowners in south-central who want to serveand and protect. but against two? of question is what kind

policing in a civil society are we willing to pay for a cut train for, and produce. robin: a lot of communities of color want law and order. what does that mean? line order is peace. and disorder is a product of police practices. my hand and say i don't want the police, i am kind of utopian and i am also a historian. for me, the history of the police in the united states of america is a short history. the four the 1840's and 1850's, and even until the 1900s, did not have a police force.

you could disband the army, open createsent and actually forms of public safety. what you want is public safety. a collective community where we take care of each other. not where you have suburbs who our revenue -- as if the revenue is really there is -- to protect our community. as long as we have that ideology and mentality, that role as the police. with af police committee of public safety where we are all taking care of ourselves. [applause]

harold: if you look at the mobilization of the five for 15, a campaign to raise the minimum wage, a of the fast food workers are obviously people of color. haveof the demonstrations actually said that black lives matter. movementan economic collectiveement of outrage, frustration, etc., over police factions. mi being utopian? being utopian in saying that this is a seed or something? must say that i am a strong supporter -- my senate

record shows that i am a supporter. huge cityarved out a in a lake, the childcare sector. the reimbursement for childcare providers is so low that they acknowledged that they cannot get there. that is a female dominated sector. it is dominated by women of color who have no safe time, no vacation, no overtime. cheap -- a huge sector.

you have a huge segment of los angeles that will not be included. yes, i think it is the beginning of a coalition and movement building. but a part can never forget who we have knowing we have left behind. i don't think that has been reported widely. domestic workers alliance and domestic workers have been fighting for a domestic workers bill of rights. holly: and childcare workers is not included in that area.

harold: one gentleman pointed out that there is a police substation nearby watts. and that it has not made a difference in the quality of life. having police doesn't mean that you have good policing. but i don't think we want the police to entirely go away or disappear. that a lot of people want the police to be more countable. that is something positive. i have been tried to think of things that are positive that come out of these events. and one of the positive things of late, in baltimore, ferguson from other places, people are demanding more accountability from their police of force and politicians are coming on board with that. a new york mayor signed an executive order instituting a police-civilian review board. people have been asking for that since 1965 when they congress on branch in newark

were demanding a civilian review board and it kept getting kicked down the road. but it was put in place recently. new york state governor andrew cuomo -- i am not refugees fan of his policies -- but he said police officers, if the local prosecutor will not pursue a police issue, then the state well. so there has been positive movements to hold police more accountable. mayf that is the case, it play a part in ameliorating these events. at a: we are looking .ackage of bills in my mind, they are band-aids.

we have a systemic old sure shift -- systemic culture shift. there are 4000 bills procession. we cannot legislate against bias. the isms. that is going to be a culture shift. civiliando have oversight of the police. that is a very important thing. to the send a message police that somebody is watching what they are doing. the grand jury system is not an open and transparent system. involved in a death or maiming of a private citizen, you have to go through the regular open, transparent system like all of us would. you do not get the protection of a closed-end secret transparency.

i agree. it's a delight. robin: so much of what goes on now is recorded ver. in this life, the rodney king thing, before people had cell phones to take pictures, should have been one of the things we should have been arguing for after rodney king. of the kind ofon cameras that are now being mandated. robin: one of the biggest ,ources of modern postcards modern photography, the distribution of these images of thousand people watching a change. we say, who got the camera? but the fact that this

technology has been out to document this kind of violence, it is the lack of concern. one of the questions behind this ,hole panel is due urban riots destruction, do they cost change and make a difference? i was reminded of two things. when michael brown was killed, it wasn't his death that actually push the 24 hour news cycle. it was the rebellion that took place afterwards. that is what. cnn to coverage. it wasn't until people came out in the streets in ways that would be considered urban rebellions are riots that took -- even in cincinnati

, stephen roach was let off and it's created changes in policing in a community agreement. max: as we discussed, the the reaction to the riots of the 1960's didn't change police practices. as you said, they are just buying more guns. said,w, by what you just you are seeing the possibility of a different kind of change. robin: maybe. where do you locate the cause of that difference if there is in fact a difference? robin: in the case of michael brown, it took consistent organizing and protests to bring

attention. over yet. in baltimore, we are seeing certain changes. is sad thing about baltimore that there will be more business as usual for a while. 1972, you haved 250 deaths, 60,000 arrests, 10,000 injured. the outcome was that's a much the change in policy, but a level of organization. that was the main outcome. , the blackns emerged party, the by congress, the committee to combat fascism -- the more than anything is organizing, not so much the riots. arethe response was that we just going to stop and go home. the responses we are going to create a long-term oppositional

movement and then get to see much more backlash. but as a result of that, the more organization we have, the more changes we get. it is just hard. harold: there is a critical distinction between a riot and a protest. there could garner case and others, there have been protests and not riots. a lot of the sociological literature suggests that the response to a protest is more likely to bring about positive social change where the response to a "riot" is likely to bring more repressive action, more for law and order. attention from the media is a double-edged sword. it may bring about some positive change, but it can also deeply stigmatized cities. having spent a lot of time in newark and detroit, those cities have been stigmatized very

deeply by the events that occurred almost 50 years ago. when people think about the the tried and no are, disorder and decay. fortunately, l.a. is a much bigger city and has a lot of different identities and it has not been stigmatized in the same way. a riot can lead to the long-term stigmatization of a city. oft drives the whole process december at me and white flight and makes it more difficult for a city to recover. of stigmatization and white flight and makes it more difficult for a city to recover. it is often said we are driven

out of the cities by the riots. i call bs on that. the federal government gave them loans tor interest fha move out of the city. working-class population to escape the cities. with thetigma deepens riots and the rebellions to the point where the city is tagged with those events. holly: i feel compelled to say that in empowered people can protest. what a historically disenfranchised people who have nothing to lose and perhaps nothing to gain are empowered to protest. use thententionally word rebellion because it is a reaction to a circumstance, a living condition, a state of