, to be the father of the nation or a mother of a nation. mr. hughes: how about a round of applause for our speaker? [applause] i would also like to thank national press club staff organizing today's event. if you would like to wear more about the club, go to our website. thank you for we are adjourned.

[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]

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should tex >> if you missed any of today's

, it will be available on our video library. go to c-span.org. states of emergency have been declared by several state governors over heroin use in the u.s. we want to show you a house subcommittee hearing on how it is trending and possible solutions to the problem. the director of national drug --trol policy and the dea's coming up at 4:00 eastern today. while congress is on summer recess, we are taking the opportunity to show you the c-span cities tour, normally seen weekends on book tv, c-span2, in american history seat -- american history tv on c-span3. you towe take greensboro, north carolina, for a look at the literary life in that city. and as portions of the annual nations conference from phoenix, you will hear liberal activists

discuss how to elect more liberal democrats to office and -- nina turner talks about low voter turnout in 2014. here's a look. lower voter was the turnout in the country in 70 years. think about what was happening seven years ago or we were a little busy with the war. 70 years. people are opting out. they do not believe folks who hold an elected space really give -- about them. i will keep it pg. pretty sad.at is , one woman, one man, one vote, the vote is the great equalizer and how hard it was for me to even try to get traction because i was not

everyoneor governor knows the most important race is the secretary of state race. i am not just saying that because my sister was running if saying that because people cannot vote and they do not have access, if their voice cannot be heard through the power of their vote, you cannot for a mayor or a governor. the about box is the most important. havei think happened is i got to quote my sister, janet jackson -- what have you done for me lately? >> now a town hall on race in america, looking at baltimore and the black lives matter movement, the confederal flat -- confederate flag and race relations during the obama administration. this is hosted by the washed and posted it runs just under an hour. ♪

>> i do feel like we spend an awful lot of money and time on , the voters not trying to help themselves. when it comes to race relations, we are just not there yet. people think race relations are pretty good right now, about where they should be. >> like the man on the moon. >> why the violence? way we areout the being viewed as not people. >> most americans believe race relations in this country are not bad at more than two thirds of glass vote this way. >> where we go from here, i do not know. >> there is one race, the human

race. >> 239 years, part of this great experiment of the united states of america. there have been incredible gains on many fronts. yet we have still seen dramatic and dangerous discourse. caliber glock pistol. >> the pain this causes, the entire society. >> it is beyond my comprehension that anybody could do the act this young man did. >> 60% of white people are uncomfortable discussing race with somebody of another race. 71.umps to but we need to talk about this. race, and honest conversation. i am bruce johnson. thank you for joining us out there. let's get started. why are we not talking about

race? are we afraid of anything? let's begin with my colleagues. >> i think people are misinformed, not necessarily afraid. the average person has no idea about this commission. even go back to black people, asian americans, latinos, to this point now. , ipeople were more informed do not think they would be as afraid to talk about these things because they would understand that everything is a personal indictment. it is a matter of discussing people coming together. bruce: professor of american university, a lot of people out there are like, i had nothing to do with what happened. why am i being blamed? why am i being targeted? >> nobody's being targeted. all of this is into our present day pity cannot talk about our present day without the context of our history. the 51st state of america on race, the state of

denial. it is time we get out of denial and talk about the issues that have a real impact on people's lives. bruce: a lot of people talk about this stuff over the kitchen table. >> it is hard to talk about race. we should remember that it is hard here we are doing something hard. ofare overcoming generations being taught not to do something, when we step out and do something. we also have to remember race is not a single topic. it is made up of many topics. a big subdivision is gender. race and gender go together in my mind. bruce: take a look at this graphic, asking if president barack obama has brought whites and blacks together. some of these might surprise you. and 47% sayaid yes there has been no difference.

34% of respondents say we are further apart. what is the problem here? are a former democratic congressman from the state of georgia. why? >> it has to do with inculcated urban tensions, which are in fact a part of a history of and detion in the south facto segregation and the north, something we do not talk about a lot. it is just a victim of circumstances. i do not think he is really bringing people together. he's got other things to worry about. particularly in the past few months, these occasions have divided a nation beyond his control to bring it together. -- pastou do not think

the mic back. you do not think the president in led on race here it back 2009, 97 percent of after americans who went to the polls voted for barack obama. they voted in a higher percentage than whites for the first time in history for barack obama. what did they want? click unification, leadership, and a better community for their community. that being said, the reality is -- ik obama's election ,hink lack and white folks because of his election, stop working on or toward it. i think african-americans got comfortable thinking it would get better on its own peer white americans said, we are getting rid of the guilt because we have president. bruce: if barack obama had portrayed himself as the after

american blacks had wanted to see, he would not have gotten elected, a lot of white would not have voted him. uncomfortable letting this man with a black agenda. right were wrong? you.agree with that has caused some problems. it has allowed race riots and race issues. we have not been having this conversation that is necessary. it continues. bruce: go ahead, scott. that is true. barack obama does not have to have a language or is beach to support black causes. i am more concerned about his actions. what is his legacy leadership in connection across this country? that is what it should be judged upon and that is where i think he has had his challenges. bruce: you are a conservative

republican? >> barack obama got 43% of the white vote in the general election. a lot of people did not vote for him. how are people viewing barack obama now? >> i can hardly speak for white folks. the democrats will tend to vote for the democrat running for office. the republican party faces a great dilemma here right now. do party is trying to outreach to certain communities and certain folks do not care about reaching these communities because they think the communities cannot be won over. complicated process. part of the reason why barack because he is a member of the other party and we live in a partisan society right now. think we're overanalyzing

this incredibly. when you have the same problems with glass ceilings as you do with race and glass doings, it are afraid to lose power. whoever is afraid to lose power will create things where they make it difficult and speak down. has been a good president. that is why this has come out here they wanted to have a problem with him and say he did not do a good job. he has done a phenomenal job and we have to realize maybe a black and can be a resident and can lead and maybe they are equal. the white man continues to lose power, and you will entrance yourself. bruce: anyone back your want to join in on this? brendan: my name is brendan cooper. choice,it is a false whether obama has done good things are bad things. a factor. is not there are a lot of issues that need to be dollar.

they will not be solved or helped by one person. bruce: who is writing those articles that say it is the end of racism, the election of barack obama. who bought into that? who thought all of this we were talking about tonight was behind us? a show of hands. you do not believe it? >> i did not buy into it and i voted for barack obama. i think the question and discussion should not only be about race relations, but about racial justice. too often, we talk about racism in this country as a conversation and a discussion. two parallel summer of 2000 15, we are not getting enough justice. for the first time, we are starting to see them get locked up here that is a good thing. i want to see that type of accountability. bruce: barack obama past the

halfway point in the second term. we have got people mistreats chanting black last matter. does that offend anybody, the slogan? you are offended by that in the back? come all the way up here. tell me who you are and why you have a problem with that slogan. i am from montgomery county, maryland and all lives matter here not just black fly spirit if you cannot have an honest conversation about black lies mattering when over 1600 people this year have been shot in chicago and over 50% of the shooting victims are african-american males. just yesterday, 12 people were shot in chicago. that does not make national headlines. as: can somebody respond to him why the black lies slogan is relevant? >> i'm an activist here in washington dc black last matter because when you look at what happened, there

has not been black justice. black folks are under attack here you may have six children and you can love your children eat lee, but you have to love them adequately. we have to put adequate attention to the issues in the community. bruce: stay on topic here. let's address black lives matter. he has got a problem with that slogan. >> i agree that all lives matter. i think you have to understand the source of that sentiment comes from, a source of frustration and anger that goes back to a point in history and time where you had a literally drop of blood, you are not to be equal and racism is then condoned. it is woven into the fabric of who we are as a country. it is a cornerstone foundation.

bruce: it is understood that white lives matter, but they were trying to draw attention to, do not forget black lies matter as well. in my misunderstanding? >> there is a certain amount of privilege saying all lives matter versus black last matter. caps on editorial cartoon where the equivalency they did was, an image of a black child saying black lies matter and a white hand over the mouth saying all lives matter. the idea is they are not mutually exclusive. if they were not miss very to say as much, the notion would not be an issue at all. they would equate black ceilings with less men and women. got to understand male privilege is the first privilege. it is a tough comparison their pet i want to make sure we got that out there.

>> anyone who deals with the history of the nation, not the propaganda we get in schools, but the real history of the country, from the very beginning, but classwork modified. inasmuch asonly they produce for those who own black people. it has only been a generation. i am 40 years old. my father and mother went to segregated schools. america has only tried to remedy this in the law. one generation ago. two separate from the true history, these are the united states of amnesia. we are not willing to do with the true history that got us to where we are. >> thank you for there are a couple of things. making, theu are

point where we see the break with frederick douglass, with liberal whites in the north, it is precisely over this issue where white women in particular .ay we want the vote if we do not have the vote, certainly black men cannot have the vote. i think it is very important. to reiterate the point, the default has always been white. of thatmoving out position. black life matters is problematic in some ways because we still have to say that. because the default position fundamentally is still light. bruce: i need you guys to look at this here. doing better, i me would not have this problem of, i am losing so you must be winning pair take a look at unemployment numbers. we just need a reference point. hasblack unemployment rate

gone down. for hispanics, the numbers and has gotten better pay her for whites, the unemployment rate is 4.6% compared to 7% in 2009. the point being, it has gotten -- andfor the economy the economy has gone better. i want to come back to you, chris. when you're talking on the phone, you're talking about a group of white men out there who , who are wegh talking about? chris: in terms of white privilege -- >> we will talk about what privilege later we want to talk about employment. chris: a lot of blue-collar folks in world areas in they do not like when they have any real

privilege. if i did hard to get a job anywhere event jobs going overseas. bruce coney think other people should be taking their jobs. chris: it is unfortunate. the fact that we have a black president, playing into some anxiety. folks feel like, my position has not improved. those people are over there. there is a bit of dissonance there. whenever you have a situation where the economy, people feel like they are left out of the economy, people will find people to blame. across thecoming -- er, bruce: moving on coming into doubt have seen the images on television benefit captured on cell phones. mostly african-american males .ho ended up dead

ferguson, cleveland, the university of cincinnati police officer, north charleston, and more and more and more. you have seen. take a look from baltimore. >> these officers did nothing wrong. >> black lies matter! matter! >> west baltimore is also referred to the other baltimore. people feel left out. >> excuse my french, asked the leaders. >> they do not like baltimore police here.

>> we have to characterize them as a whole. he for freddie gray died in police custody. >> a high crime area could you know what happened? they were not able to stop anybody for any reason. >> it will not be solved in one day. it is something that involves a lot of work and a lot of good people. policing our own police. >> if you have not been to west baltimore, you do not know that part of west baltimore. watch the wire to get a better sense of what is going on there. i was there covering. michael would again, a former baltimore city police officer. what is zero tolerance? i understand that is what police in baltimore were operating under. there is this zero-tolerance belief.

what does it mean? >> i had zero-tolerance under martin o'malley. not have that system anymore, at least not officially. what you have with freddie gray is an instance where you're going after somebody walking the streets and supposedly have a knife. the cost stop him and go into the pocket, and up arresting him throwing him into a metal box, and he ended up on the steps to your they were on tv and they will say, we did nothing wrong. it is the academy of white privilege because there is not a chance any of your kids -- >> tell us your experience? baltimore gives us another story. >> cost to it we want because we have over criminalization or what does that mean? we have sandra bland, where no happens, the police

can justify detaining you for a time. ish that enables you to do not necessarily look for the crime but look for your chosen suspect. everyone is criminal when you have lost that make everyone do things that are illegal. false ideology that is who the people are who commit crimes. that is because that is who we are looking at. we arrested them previously. crime isst of the committed by the young african-americans, how would you respond to that? >> it is mostly committed by them when we look at them. we go out, we know all the races carry drugs, if you were to stop anybody to look for drugs, you would prima find drugs at the same rate. when we find pre-much anywhere, that is what we're looking for.

it is a false narrative when someone says we're looking for crime. i would call them a liar. begin tow do you reform the police departments that might be similar? moneym focused on getting out of politics. i do not think we can get politicians who will do with the people want. know how we can get that when we are supported by donors. >> i have represented defendants on both sides. the reality is, whether it is baltimore or urban police departments, we have got to get rid of the us versus them mentality. i agree with the officer over here, but it goes down that. us versus them is the thin blue line. are seen aere you shooting and the other officer says, i have got your back.

he says, do not say anything, he has body cameras. brown called black and defendants on the halls on the right out? perks, animals. dogs. regularly. go patrol the streets externally, i've got to tell you, you will think of those individuals the same way. secondly, who are the police officers we have been choosing? where thet months shootings have taken place, my gracious. better got to do assessing who we are giving a gun and a batch two. begin inreat way to this to police department. -- in this police department. bruce: he says he wanted to work

in the black neighborhoods. that is where the fun was. to go black neighborhoods, that is where the fun was collected about to his point. his point.go back to >> we do not know what they are bringing in the streets with regard to law enforcement officers, so what we're talking about his leadership. last night we had a republican presidential candidate debate, and there was more time spent on wa" movie commercial after and is issueegment of race relations was not discussed. that is the problem. we have a cancer. organisms are killed from the inside out, and that is what is taking place in our country. bruce: young man right here in front. >> hello. i attend morehouse college. that we cannot wait

for white people to fix our communities. our church and our politicians need to work together so that 30, 40 years now, we will have stronger relations within our community because that is the only way that black people will advance, and i do not think it is something we can truly wait for another race or another culture to ask for us. bruce: young lady right here. >> hi. and i'm fromrand, baltimore city, attending the university of maryland, and i would like to completely agree because when i thought would happen in baltimore, i did not do that as, you know -- i saw that as someone being killed in my home, a family member, someone from baltimore. onryone was so focused the cvs burning that people were not focused on a life taken.

white silence is the killer. i believe that wholeheartedly. bruce: an interesting poll in the criminal justice system, half of americans holds that the criminal justice system in the u.s. is biased against blacks. that is up 35% from two years ago. gentleman in the corner. hi, greg from a government county. i think you are absolutely right, there is a serious problem with the administration of justice, and it comes back to the war on justice and the inexplicable reason that as a society we think we can legislate individual voluntary behavior, and if we change that, i think we will see a lot of these albums go to way -- these problems go away. bruce: let's go to facebook. ebony duncan says he let because it away at civil rights and soon no one will have civil rights. marie brown says -- the discussion needs to take place on how to comply with law enforcement, it is not about equal rights these days.

there is a distinct problem with how people are behaving when they encounter a police officer. anybody want to weigh in on that? >> we can focus on law enforcement, but that is just the most toxic tip of his iceberg because when you go and go for a job and you are discriminated against, it is the same poison happening in a far more subtle form. when you look to rent an apartment or buy a home and his termination takes place come it is the same poison, it is just more subtle than when there is a gun involved. of a larger systemic and institutional problem that we have to aggress. focus on law enforcement, then shame on us for not focusing on all of the other issues that we have to deal with, but we have to focus on law enforcement because lives -- black live -- do matter. >> and police officers are in a unique category. they are the only ones with a

badge and a gun to take someone's life. most of the times we will try to say it is justified. it is an important writer they have. important right that i have. i have a lot of cop friends. will callhelp, i them. but i think of them, clean it up, if you have a bad apple, clean it out. she has got bad cops that she cannot get rid of. go ahead. >> it is incredibly problematic that we are not looking at the officer, particularly in the sandra bland influence. snark is a part of what we do. it is not that you have the angry black woman stereotype in the jezebel stereotype, but literally what she said -- the officer said, you have got a problem, is something wrong, you seem like you have an attitude. she does have an attitude because you pull me over for not using a signal. that officer could not figure out how to get out of that situation. he got deeper and deeper into it and what not retreat.

bruce: then his training should have kicked in. absolutely. dana: yes, or his humanity. >> that if that -- that gets back to the point that supremacy rules what we are talking about. the way the system is set up in the country, going back to trying to cats and slaves on the streets that people have presumed had escaped. muchu think about how negative into our mentality that he was doing right and wrong, it is interesting to hear your point about you are at the fact that people were not talking amongstack life matters people running for president, but you had a problem with the nwa commercial for your it i learned a whole lot more from the nwa that i will ever learn from any politician, and to me, that was as important. what they are not talking about is not as big of a deal, which is part of that supremacy problem we run into. hold on a second.

let's go to charleston here take a look at this. >> why did you do it. reporter: according to authorities, 21-year-old dylan roof sat with his soon-to-be victims for an hour in a bible study class listening to them pray, watching them worship before gunning them down. >> it is hard to explain to your children. >> i am mad, i'm hurt, i am angry. friends that he had recently reconnected with roof. >> he told me black people were taking over the country and he wanted it to be segregation. reporter: roof is also facing 37 federal accounts, among them hate crimes for the jim matheson are. >> this is an and speakable act. >> we woke up today and the heart and soul of south carolina was broken. reverend lamarr of the

ame church in washington, the sister of mother emanuel in washington, reverend, what have you seen since this? you cannot take the thought of historical context. trying to have an insurrection against the slave owners, the white people in charleston at the time were concerned because there were more african and white, and they were brutal to the africans and were trying to keep the africans suppressed. what i want to say currently is that we continue to give people asking us questions, but they do not want to have a real dialogue. how is the church protecting itself? they do not want to talk about how dylann roof came into that space with the ideas that animated what it is that he did. my friend here from the republican party, the current republican party, i am not a big fan of democrats, either,

but the southern strategy engineered by richard nixon was used to blow racial dog whistles to rally white people to roll back the very -- that came forth after the civil rights movement, and they continue to trade on that continuously carried america needs and must be willing to have difficult conversations. stop with the smokescreens and the shields. we know that the narrative that is animating these spaces that continue to control black bodies, that narrative is old and has not been broken, nor has it been challenged. it just re-creates itself generation after generation. bruce: everybody is surprised. the gentlemen here. an intern at the white house initiative for asian-pacific islanders. the part of the discussion that was truly inspirational is that racial relations is not a black and white issue, and there are other folks out there, other

ethnic minorities i do take part in this discussion, and being an asian american, being one of the few in the studio today, i think that is very important for us to remember. the indian temple shooting for years go resumes with me as much as it resonates with the troll stench shooting that happened a couple of months ago. there is a discussion of bun -- amongst asian americans law enforcement. hazing.an died from it is important to remember being inclusive of other voices, having besides of race discussions. it goes back to the sentiment of the gentleman that spoke before, that all blac life matter. i believe in the black life matter movement, but we need to be inclusive of ethnic minorities and i would like to take a step back and ask every in this room to bring other voices who are not often heard on television or mass media. bruce: very well said. can we get a mic back there? just stand up.

hold on a second. identify yourself quickly for us. hi.eish : i am the immediate secretary of the d.c. -- party, and i do not mean to be disrespectful, but people of african american dissent have had to live through -- de ce have hadn to livet through 400 years of his termination. we do not know where we come from, we do not know our names, however, those who have had the ability to come here by choice -- they have a option. you can find out where you come from, you know what country of origin you come from. the vast majority of us in this room have to take a dna test and hope that we can find out who we are and where we belong in the diaspora of african american, so please do not ask us to be

little, do not ask us to stop, do not ask us to include because if it had not been for our blood, sweat, and tears, this country would not he where it is right now. bruce: anybody else want to respond to that? while we are back here, the lady in the back, no, right here in the front. your name, please? iil: my name is gail schnell, am the president and ceo of schnell tech solutions. i just want to say that i respect each and every person here and each and every race, and we have all suffered some sort of injustice if you look at the past, speaking from the asian-americans like a minor for the japanese, they have gone through concentration camps, and these are all of our ancestors. the only way we will move forward is learning from her past, learning from our mistakes and moving forward together as a whole. i have a child, and with his classmates asked him -- are you filipino? and he said what aris that.

from theid are you philippines committees that i am america. i want one day for us to not see a color, not see a race. so many interracial couples, i am hoping that after a while we will stop the hatred and try to find all the ways that we can help each other out and be a better country by working together, just like in the army. we are made up of women, different races, and i have faced racism, i have faced discrimination being a woman, but i choose not to dwell on the negative and focus on the positive. i put myself out there to try to help where i can come in and hope others will follow. bruce: thank you very mustered want to get as many people as possible. let's move this way. this gentleman right here. from baltimore leaders of a beautiful struggle. black people are afraid to talk about race. in terms of people feeling about a particular race, but we are talking that

institutions that benefit financially, politically, by undermining humanity, people of african american descent. there are industries profiting off the suffering of our people, and that is the impetus behind what we saw in baltimore in terms of use of the institutionalized oppression of the people in those communities. until we get what that, we will not deal with the problem in front of us. bruce: point well taken. the gentleman with his glasses on. >> [indiscernible] bruce: hold on a second here and i cannot hear his mic. and him another mic, please. go ahead. >> i just wanted to say some front from the white house initiative, as a fellow asian-american, i think you really needed to hear what she said because i think a lot of the way asian-american issues are framed is hey, we experience this, too, without ever saying

not on the same scope and magnitude, right? but i also wanted to speak to the second point about reforming police and law. i mean, i think when we talk about reform, we need to talk about fundamental reforms, not just a reform here come a reform there be, because i think we are in a political system that gives us black versus white, and these are not useful categories cheered when he to be thinking bottom versus top. bruce: but go to this woman who has had her hand up for quite some time. samantha: i just wanted to say really quickly i think going back to the issues with dylann roof and the conversation that has brought up, i think one of the problems that icy with conversation and discourse that has come from that is it is sort of derailed the conversation on a personal level because it has given people something to point to and say no, that is racism. that allows us to ignore the systematic and institutionalized racism that is really eroding

very deeply the demographics of this country that are affected. bruce: it reminds me of the lesson that president obama gave. just because you do not use the word. good point. let's take a look at this piece. 1, marysville,t virginia, that is ben jones, former democratic congress meant georgia, probably better known as cooter. cottage industry off the character he portrayed in the early 1980's popular sitcom "the dukes of hazzar d." he is the owner of a major attraction, but he is also leading a charge to save the confederate flag or . >> we are not ashamed of our ancestors, we are not ashamed of the symbols of their courage or valor. reporter: defenders of the flag

came out on a saturday. >> when this flag has been used for hateful purposes, it is a desecration of that flag, and it has in the past, it has been misused, we know that, but so have the american flag, so has the christian cross. reporter: they feel outnumbered, maybe even betrayed by mainstream southerners who are now openly reconsidering the legacy of slavery and its symbols. >> so many people die because of that flag, and just to remove it and pretend history did not happen is wrong. >> do not take my flag. it is important to who i am and where i came from. >> the men who fought under this flat -- it was not about defending slavery. slavery was not something they had -- slavery was something they inherited. it was an evil, but it was the national sin, not the southern sent. -- sin.

reporter: a young white man pictured brandishing the flag, and the flag had to go said south carolina's governor. governor: that flag, while an integral part of our past, does not present the future of our great state. my hope is that by removing a symbol that divides us what we can move forward as a state in harmony, and we can honor the nine blessed souls who are now in heaven. >> we love those people that were in the church and died. >> white crucify everybody because of what one or two or maybe four people do? it doesn't make no sense. reporter: some here seem resigned to the flag coming down over the statehouse, others say if only will stop there. taking the "dukes of hazzard" off tv -- >> it is cultural poisoning. that is what it is. there is no other word for it. congressman ben jones in

the studio. take it from there. you know a lot of people here want that flag removed from public space. you don't have a problem with that. ben: well, it depends on the public space. i think that it is cultural cleansing. you have got your member a few things here. millionon to 80 americans are descended from the confederacy. no one here got to fill out an application form one we came into this place. we did not get to decide what color we were going to be, who our ancestors were, and in studying the turmoil of american history, i understand that is a lotlavery, which longer than america, started in 1619, white and black bondsman the into jamestown under english flag from 1619 until 1776. under the american flag from 1776 until 1865. those men thought they were

doing the right thing, and lincoln in his first inaugural address exit here he has no problem with slavery. now, that is a tough thing for people to get around, but if we really study history, we have to understand, first of all, the death that wheel to the african-americans, and i think that is where. -- is clear. they did not, after 1865, having same starting line as everybody else, but if we're going to move ahead, we have to go by things that dr. king said. he had a dream that somehow on the red hills of georgia, the sons of former slaves and the willof former slaveholders dine together at the table of brotherhood. we cannot do these divisive things, making these rod brushed characterizations of all of us without a reaction. -- these broad brushed characterizations of all of us without a reaction. bruce: let's say statehouse taxpayer funded structures.

ben: those are different argument. there had been a optimize and south carolina to her day removed it from the capitol dome, where it had not been, put it at a confederate monument area that deal is done. folks he understand what i'm saying. every confederate monument, every confederate statue, every confederate flag, every cemetery is now on a list, and throughout this country, every day, it may not show up on the media, but our flags are being threatened, our heritage is being threatened, and we did not -- get into that. i want to split this up a bit. let's talk about the confederate flying over public -- and when i say public, i mean taxpayer funded buildings. it is our heritage, and we are proud of it, we are not proud of what happened as far as slavery. i do believe it is completely wrong and should have never happened. but attacking our personal

property -- bruce: get him another mic because we need to hear this. >> i do not believe that slavery was a good thing, now, attacking our private property and it is on our vehicles, which is happening right now, and there was a gentleman on a street bike in georgia, and there was a gentleman flying the flag on the back of his pickup truck. the gentleman on the street bike was african-american, and he jumped off of his street bike and pulled his fight off this drug and ended up dying. now, i do not want to see this happen. this is very of setting to me, and the fact that they're coming to our private property to take what is ours down that we, that is our heritage -- bruce: in everyday agree that if he wants to fly the confederate flag on his private property, that is his business? >> no, no. bruce: marjorie, you disagree.

marjorie: first of all, i want to know, what is the heritage that this flag represents? what is the southern heritage dissing from the american heritage when you separate out the issue of slavery? what did the confederacy do that was so distinct if it was not a slave state? en: slavery existed in every state in this country. it existed in every cholerae be -- colony before that. slavery, you will come to understand, it built the american economy. it built wall street. editors ofok by the the hartford current theater that establish that it was a ern enterprise. what it was with a bunch of people who went out in their time to defend their rights, what they felt were being threatened in that system.

if you want to fight be civil war here, if you want to fight the civil war here, no. >> i am not saying stupid things, i am expressing an opinion. >> ben, if you read the succession, theces states as they seceded, they were clear that it was about nothing other than slavery. slavery,early about and it was their determination, they wrote it themselves, that their culture was contingent eradication and the of slavery was the eradication of their culture and their property and -- noelle let's go to kno back here. noelle: we also have to understand the confederate flag was not and did the civil war, and decadesdecades

as a symbol of hate. "birth of a nation," one of our first teacher-linked fi -- thr first feature-leng films that celebrated the klan. i am not saying we need to get rid of it completely, but i think it belongs in the museums because as a huma historian, it is important to keep. >> when i hear my new friend, ben jones -- [laughter] um, youfriend here, cannot have it both ways, right? i hear my new friend say it is about southern heritage and he does not support slavery and he quotes martin luther king, ofior, ok, he is talking out both sides of his mouth. the reality is that this is a symbol of hatred and death, and you know what, it should not be on federal or state government

buildings or locations. you want to put on a museum or your house, that is fine. lenny,let me hear from then we have to move on. lenny: here is what i cannot understand what i hear the phrase "southern heritage" -- that suggests that the south is civilly white. it is not. the south is multicultural. if we were to talk about southern heritage, wanted it make more sense to talk about rosa parks, to talk about the abolitionists in the south of fight against slavery? why is the confederate flag, which symbolized a nation that tried to continue and perpetuate slavery, the symbol of southern heritage? that is not make any sense to me. bruce: i think there is more to be said here, though, which is a basic historical lesson, which is a confederacy is not par some part of america -- it was time to leave america. that is to be understood here. when you assume one into

another, that is a historical, that is faulty or when you talk about atonement, i believe there are a lot of people that do believe that some concept of cultural heritage around the show that the one you were on, shows like iwatch of a kid, but if you are going to go with atonement, as for people who were most affected are you do not get to just make the rules of your own atonement if you really actually care. you go to germany, you not see symbols like that. from a symbolism standpoint, that is what i am saying. ben: no, no. clinton: i am not disagreeing with that, but -- >> let me say this quickly. first -- we are past the flag or we are moving on. the white bass privilege thing. when you are showing the thing about dylann roof, it was white privilege when they took him to get a sandwich after they arrested entered when your essay like person, they are being

handcuffed, hogtied and everything, so white riblets exist, so when we talk about this idea -- so white privilege exists, so when we talk with his idea, until white people, been say reparations for black people in america because everybody who has been wronged in america has reparations, and the white privilege that have, when you locked of our people -- bruce: we have not heard from the gentleman right here with the hat on. white privilege -- here is the thing, louis ck said you can get in a time machine and go anywhere. today, i can go anywhere in the planet, i am walking down a street and a hoodie, i know i will be fine. other people cannot do that. that is what is important to understand, that people who are black in this country, latino in this country, if you are not white, if you're not a man in this country, crazy things can happen to you. that is white privilege, that i

can do what i want, and i'm going to be ok, and that can always be set if you are not white. , one of our really talented producers here, told me when we were rehearsing about a conversation she had with a black female colleague. erin, tell us about that conversation. tellingwas shopping and the story to a black coworker, and i was kind of puzzled as to why i was in a fancy, upscale bethesda store, and know what that high me, no one greeted me, responseack coworker's was, well, they do not think you are going to steal. if i walk into the same sort, they will be like hi, how are you doing, let me help you with this. they kind of tail them. it never occurred to me that would happen. i just thought it was bad customer service and not someone profiling shoppers. bruce: a show of hands here, how many people are followed going into a store? ok, let's see.

well, whatever, if you are followed, you are followed. of hands. the wife's gentleman in the back here has been followed. talk to me. stand up. i need to get a mic over to you. why do you think they were following you? >> well, it was christmas time, and i was going to a choice for tots party, and i wanted to get a toy, and probably because i was a man walking around a toy store and i do not have a wedding ring on her any kids with me, i was going through the toy aisle, and one of the guys came up to me is that excuse me, sir, can i help you, and give me a dirty look. bruce: young lady right here, right here. what about my colleague here? do you want to talk? go ahead. the point,nk that is though, he was followed in the toy store because he looked out of place in the toy store, and we see people of color get followed in stores because

people inherently assume that they are out of place, they should not be shopping in here, they must be stealing, and that is racism. bruce: i have to ask you because we're running out of time. solutions -- where do we go from here? .e have to leave here let me start with you, what do you think? >> a conversation -- it dovetails well with the part of become a station we were just having. one solution is if you think about it in the hong kong -- in the context of what the comedian said, no matter what i go, wherever i go, that is absolutely not true. it is not true. if you go back far enough, you do not exist. so if you begin to help us to recover what it was or what life looks like before race became an issue, and you stop the cultural cleansing, and we get historical accuracy, and we do not teach the beginning with avery in the u.s., and we begin to think about the world in terms of the

world and not the white world, then it is a very different conversation. of perception is different. bruce: i'm looking for solutions. hurry up. >> lots to talk about here. bruce: no, no, you do not have the time. >> bruce, i think you have lost your viewers because this has been a liberal program. however, if you want to shut down conservatives emma talk about white supremacy -- conservatives, talk about white supremacy, and so on. a lot of conservative whites out there do not even think that racism even exists. you have to go with baby steps here. that is a big problem. you want people to listen, you want to have a conversation with them, and -- >> what are you saying to your

colleagues in the republican party? is a big problem because right now donald trump is topping -- tapping into a situation here, they do not want to hear what you are saying to them. they do not want to hear a lot of it. it is a difficult thing for a lot of them to hear. run out ofwe have time curate incredible conversation, we will continue it online. i want to take all of you, and we certainly would like to inc. all of you out there. thanks for joining us. have a good night. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] states of emergency have been declared by several state governors over heroin use in the u.s. we are going to show you a house or sherry subcommittee hearing on how heroin edition is trending and possible solutions to the problem. the white house director of national drug control policy and

the dea acting deputy administrator testified he or hearing airs at 4:00 eastern. congress is on its summer recess. we're taking the opportunity to show you the c-span cities tour, normally seen weekends on book tv on c-span2 in american history tv on c-span3. today at 6:00 eastern here and c-span, we take you to greensboro, north carolina, for a look at the literary life of that eddie. tonight here on c-span, portions of the annual met roots nation conference from phoenix. you will hear liberal activists discuss how to live like more democrats to local office and started just for electing more women and minorities as well. that is at 8:00 eastern. general john allen, the man tasked with leading the fight against the islamic state, joined the iraqi investors to the u.s. and the assistant treasury secretary for terrorist financing last month to discuss combating isis.

they spoke at the annual aspen global security forum. this is just under one hour. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. my pleasure this afternoon to introduce you to the next panel, iraq thomas syria, worse now than ever before. according to your programs, you will read this panel will explore isil's military successes in iraq, syria, and even more complicated methods in the other parts of syria, leading to the overall question, which is whether the admittedly brutal stability of the saddam hussein regime in iraq and the

real evolutionary assad regime in syria were more in line with american interests. is this the best outcome now? that is a status quo antebellum. i will add to that my personal column so what, but i will leave that to the panel, which will be moderated by my friend, eric schmidt. eric covers terrorism and national security matters for the new york times. he is the co-author of a terrific book, i bought an extra copy so i can show you. untold storye: the of america's secret campaign against al qaeda. eric has spent two decades now covering military and national security affairs for "the times," and in that capacity has to iraq,ns of trips afghanistan, pakistan, and africa. eric, it is all yours.

eric: thank you very much, brian. i want to again thank the aspen security forums for allowing us to moderator we have saved the most uplifting news for this afternoon -- iraq and syria. from my plus,or my general john allen, led the coalition to counter isil. he is also the former allied commander in afghanistan, also served in a distinction in iraq. on his left is perhaps one of the u.s. government's top sanctions buster's cops, what he described. he probably knows more about cunning terrorist finance and assistant secretary daniel glazier. ambassadorleft is

lukman faily. the iraqrved as ambassador to japan, and he is a marathon runner, citing learned yesterday, rayna in boston's in new york's marathons. looking at this kind of topic, you really need to have a kind of duration doing this. [laughter] going to start, there is a lot of breaking news on this topic today. washington,in senator john mccain declared that isis is winning. secretary, defense secretary ash carter was in iraq today on one of his spokesman said it will at least be one week to eight weeks before the iraqi forces outside of ramadi, currently doing shaping operations, will be able to conduct the full offense. many ways, i think it is very difficult situation, clearly, on the iraq side, and in syria. breaking news at this moment, however, that the turkish

government after months of negotiations, including with one of the panelists here, has agreed to allow u.s. warplanes and drones to fly from at least one of their airbases for targets, seeming to be a major shift on the part of turkey and the fight against isis. john allen, i want to turn to you since he recently returned from the capitals turkey and tried to lift the coalition in your 10-month tenure. fight?re we in this i think that's gloomy s senator mccain said in washington, or are there a few bright spots showing up? john: first of all, thank you again for inviting me. it is great to be on the panel, and eric, it is great to be here today. well, we just got back from turkey.

i had contact with them in a whole series of conversations that have been increasingly productive and increasingly fruitful. we are old friends with turkey, we have been allies for a very long time, we are both faced with real crises here with regard to, i like to use the word daesh, i do not use the word isil and less i have to. turkey has for a very long time dealt with about a 1.5 million to two perso 2 million person refugee problem. we've seen the conversation with turkey take a very important term of late, and i will leave to washington specific commentary on what the pieces of that are, but it is encouraging, and it is important. eric: how soon can american

warplanes began?flying flying? gen. allen: great question. i will even to washington to answer that. we were believing that iraq was going to come apart to we were seeing public of executions of thousands at camp speicher, christians, yazidis, others going into the night. really grim, and we were not sure where it was going to go. a body was dramatically different from al-maliki. shortly after that, the president with secretary kerry a number of others of our close, traditional partners called for the establishment of a coalition. is that coalition was formed 62atively quickly, it has

partners today, and we operate along five lines of effort, a military line of effort, a counter and finance line of effort, where danny is spending a lot of his time. countering messaging and ultimately humanitarian assistance and stabilization support, and the coalition is deeply engage in all those lines. the effort of course is intended to achieve our strategic outcome. since the coalition was formed, since the effort with respect to daesh have come into greater focus, we have seen i think some significant process. in aush against daesh number of areas in iraq has in fact produced outcomes that we were hoping for. tikrit did not have been cleared. city.not an insignificant the coalition is definitely supporting and that regard.

we are beginning to press on ramadi. falluja is in circle. we have a number of training -- to bringave been them back up online. and the air campaign has been very effective to this point as well, as well as the kurds in both iraq and of course the kurds in syria have been successful. if you were to look at a map of where daesh was this time, let's face of zimmer of last year and where they are today, the surface area and the amount of the population that is under their direct control has shrunk significantly, and it is going to continue to shrink. most of the turkish border, 2/3 or so, is back in the hands of what i would call friendly's. there is a portion that remains to be taken, but it will be taken, and as we continue to close is aspects of the turkish order, then we can have a fact.

i'm always reticent to take issue with senator mccain in public, and i can understand how there would be some that feel momentum remains unchecked. i do believe that daesh's momentum has been checked strategically, operationally, and by and large tactically, but it is not just a military campaign. there is a counter messaging campaign, and then there is a allnitarian peace, they have confluence toward strategic objectives, and it is very important that we have that larger strategic perspective when you consider whether we are having a factor not. eric: talk about the islamic state and finances. reports that took over banks, tens of not hundreds of millions of dollars in assets, despite the efforts of the allied air coalition, it continues to sell oil on the black market. it seems to be even with the constraints that have been put on over the last 10 months or so are thriving with economic entity. thanksser: thanks, eric,

for the question, and i should also thank as general allen did, by thanking the aspen institute, and i am honored to be on this panel. general allen, it has been an honor to serve under his leadership in this fight. what i thought it just run down really quickly what isil's sources of revenue are, what we think their financial strengths are, and i will talk briefly about our strategy to counter that. as i have been listening to the panelists previously over the course of the day, a lot of people have been coming back to stress that isil really has presented us with a new set of challenges and unique and new set of challenges. that is certainly the case with the financial asset of fighting against -- aspect of fighting against isil. i'm not think we are seen a terrorist organization is have the ability to command these

kinds of resources. there have been some of the past that do controlled territories, hamas, gaza, al-shabaab, but it is truly unprecedented, the can derivehat isil just from the territory that they control. let me run down some numbers on that. -- the mostorti important source that eric alluded to was the number in the bank vault that was in when isil took control of the territory, the central bank of iraq in mo l ul, but there are 90 some odd branch banks that had a of an controlled territory. when you add it up, the numbers, 500 million dollars close to $1 billion. that is just in the bank vault to start with. the good news is that that is nonrenewable. once they burnt of that money,

it is not money that will be available to them anymore. it is money they have at their disposal. moving on from there, there are renewable sources of wealth that they have. the most important one of these would be extortion or taxation, the normal way of government that extracts wealth from a territory. isil does that to the tune of hundreds of million dollars -- millions of dollars per year. the territory that isil controls is highly liquid. cash continues to be infused into that area. both in terms of payment, salaries of government employees, and just general commerce that continues to go on with the territory, and isil stands to profit from taxing all the sources of revenue, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per year. the third most important source of revenue is the sale of oil. and again there has been a lot , of numbers thrown out, and all the numbers are soft, but i can

say that we believe in a one-month period. earlier this year, isil made $40 million in one month off of the sale of oil. if you want to extrapolate that out, you get to $500 million in the course of a year. this is all internally generated. once you start looking at the other sources of wealth, it is much less significant. the more classical sources of wealth, kidnapping for ransom, foreign donations to the gulf, these are sources of wealth for isil, but they are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what they could generate internally. that really has to inform our strategies to combat this because the traditional tools we have to target a group like al qaeda aren't as relevant in this case. so we have a four-part strategy. i can go through it extremely quickly. first, to cut them off from the source of income that we can. of course to the extent they are

, deriving wealth from foreign donors, we can go after that. we have applied sanctions in a certain number of instances in that case. and of course we work very closely with the turks, kurdish authorities on border security come on customs issues, to make sure that smuggling is recused as much as it can be. we have made great progress in the area. the most important element of our strategy is the second that is isolating isil-controlled territory from the international financial system. the irony is these are the types of methods we use with respect to when we want to apply pressure on foreign countries. we are using some of those same methods and strategies in this case. we are working extremely closely with the iraqi government. i just get back t from iraq a couple of weeks ago. i'm going back to iraq next week to work with the iraqi authorities making sure that banks cannot be used by isil, the banks that have branches in isil, to make sure those branches are cut off.

exchange houses and money and mentors are not available to isil because if they are going to have this money, we can make that money much less valuable to them if all they can do is circulate within their own territory. that is the most important part of our strategy right now. of course, that also includes working with other countries in the region. uae, jordan, lebanon, to work with them and bring them out to a global coalition that general allen leads. the third part of the strategy is understanding their internal financial architecture, edited identifying who the key isilciers are within the structure and then targeting them. and also, targeting them with the treasury tools. we are actively engaged in that

as well. the fourth is to try to identify their external networks. as the campaign wages on, they are going to need to access the spare parts. they are going to need access to procurement and a variety of international networks that are going to allow them to bring in the materials they need, and that gets back to more classical authorities, and we will have the ability to try to disrupt that. that is a strategy. we're still in early days. isil has plenty of money. maybe i should've said one quick word about their expenses. if you look at the high end of what the estimates on foreign fighters are within isil -controlled territories, that is $30,000 on the high end. you look at the high end of how much money has been reported, $1000 per month per fighter. that is the high-end. that would presumably be there

major expense. it rattles down to the amount of money that they are bringing in. they can cover that now. the challenge we face is to try to bring -- and it would be great to bankrupt isil, but the challenge that we have in our goal is to disrupt their financing and to bring their revenue down to make it harder for them to meet their cost. i think that is something we can do. that is an achievable goal. eric: ambassador one of the , other challenges is something general allen alluded to. within iraq there is been concerns about whether the iraqi army can muster enough troops to mount the kind of counter offensive in places like for a -- like ramadi and falluja. will the sunni tribes in the west work with a government they do not trust in baghdad? how do you see this reconciling itself to the point where the president says there will be limited american involvement here, you are not sending in tens of thousands of troops, get

again, this is an iraqi fight, and yet the iraqis do not seem to be able to get along on this one. amb. faily: thank you for your time. i want to thank general alan and and hisal allen deputies who had done a tremendous job. he has done more air miles than anybody else. [laughter] i have asked him to be generous and pass it on to me. i think the challenges we face in relation to isis is not just the security aspect of it. it is mostly to do with political within iraq and in the region. in iraq, the new prime minister has been extremely inclusive. he has done an outreach to all, whether it is tribes, political entities in iraq, and so on. i do not think anybody is finding fault with his outreach. we have more what you might call

legacies challenges in relation to cohesion and social contract between the communities. that will take some time, but the purpose we all focus on, the strategy is defeat of isis. isis can be a good common project for us, social cohesion, plus focus on the commonalities of that threat. heritage i've iraq and so on. -- heritage in iraq and so on. in that sense, isis strategy is one of attrition. what we might call dry well of their attrition, attributes. for example, in relation to finance, the oils, that is a natural commodity. somebody is purchasing that oil. we need international support there. jihadist transport, here you have a clearer -- 2199, chapter

7, a binding vote stop to the jihadists. here our neighbors not really played their part. we put them on fault on that. they need to play better role and focus more on -- have a sense of urgency in stopping the flow of jihadists. in relation to twitter and others, we need the u.s. to play a significant role to help us with social media control. so my point is that this is international dimensions. we need what i might call sense of urgency internationally and the challenge general allen faces is not small. i think we have what you might call a line. we'd to develop our party to act

better, and we are working hard on that. we have had a tremendous part against isis. ground forces on the a number of reasons. one is that we will not go through that painful process, so for our own sake, for our long-term forces. to that effect, i've not think you can fault in relation to the real problem. anbar,tate now and and falluja and ramadi, we have the attrition. if funding we are not looking forward to, but we will continue because there is no plan b. eric: what does additional aid in the united states give you whether it is military aid in ground spotters, u.s. special forces -- amb. faily: the good news is the u.s. has not given us any red lines, and we have not seek to

those red lines. the politics of washington -- but what we have been asking from the u.s. and others is to put our neighbors to act and be responsible to the challenge. they mentally do get the challenge, but physically, change in their procedural, ittrolling their boardrooms, has not taken place. and harry have a question mark against the sins of urgency is of others. here we have a question mark against the sins of urgency of others. eric: going back to the turkey issue, obviously isis has been supported greatly by these foreign fighters. they continue to go through the border of turkey. what will this new announcement today mean in helping you cut

off that source of military support on the ground? i spend a lot of times, as you know, with the tribes in alternately8, but it was the principal and deciding factor in the defeat of al qaeda in that part of the world. i still have maintained close contact with many of the s, and they are very committed to the defeat of al qaeda, to the defeat of daesh , and while they were skeptical of the al maliki regime from the governor's that i have spoken to of the sunni provinces to many eikhs, they have seen a big difference in the sense of attitude from baghdad and the attitude today. they do feel that abbadi is willing to support him.

he has made it very clear that the training of the tribes to include the opening of the new facility is something that he supports. he issued a five-point plan with the unanimous consent of the council of ministers alternately to take back al anbar. eric: why the taking so long to muster a credible sunni force? gen. allen: you have to understand of the iraqi security forces took a heck of a beating, frankly, a year ago, so reconstituting that from top to bottom and building capacity back through training, especially with focus on leadership, is going to take some time. that said, they have been in battle. they have five, they did clear tikrit, and the hardest parts of the clearing of tikrit was done by iraqi security forces, where the shia volunteers, the ones who answer to the grand

ayatollah, they were cordon forces. they prevented daesh from reinforcing or from escaping, so they played a role as well. so it is going to have to be a combination of our training the regular forces, and powering the tribes, and managing the role of the popular mobilization force, elements, and combination with our military objectives. many of those elements, eric, are scheduled with the intent of the prime minister to be the base elements for the national guard brigade that will be formed over time. so these tribal elements that are being trained, about 1800 or so, and al anbar, more every other week, those will be the base elements they are in another provinces of the national guard brigade as they come along, so there will be eight purpose for them in the long term. -- they will be a purpose for them in the long term. eric: meantime, many of them

have come through turkey. what is this new deal, currently emerging today, how will that change this, or will they come in another way and other forms? gen. allen: i think that the approach has been through the turkish border. the turks haven't really done a -- populating a substantial effort to -- well over 10,000 now, they have reached out to european partners, many of them working on issues of their own. but we did not prevent that perfect process of intelligence until there exploded in our faces. much greater

cooperation between european partners and turkey in eight games turkey -- and eight days to do the opportunity better. the first line of defense occurs in the homeland, wherever it may be in the coalition. measures taken for accountability. -- stoppingighters that for iron test foreign fighter flow -- foreign fighter flow, countering extremism, then legal measures taken. isis in goodcribe financial shape.

thathas america learned gives you greater positive that is, what surprises you about this? what can you tell us about the things you learned you may be able to wait in general terms that exploit in general terms? >> one of the most important things we are doing is gathering information -- eric: how much did that information improve your visibility? real treasure a trove of information browse on the financial side. -- information on the financial side. eric: can you tell us what you know? that rate has given us inside

that inside that we will use. eric: do you see them as more of an adversary than you did before? gettingnformation is better and better. insight into their finances, as i said. they have a lot of money. we know that more after that rate. they have a lot of money. the more money -- the more details we can get, the more that we will be able to work with iraqi partners and shutting ms. down. -- shutting those down. iraqi partners are joining us. tell us more about the

playing on theis beend, economically with a doing, you get a regional perspective, not just iraq, but in syria. tells about the assad regime there. the purpose of the country is more than just in recent history. city, intes to the relation to oil countries, the geography of iraq in the south, these are all factors and will theinue to affect them in

-- being important. is borders that -- needor less, what do you and they offered anything we wanted. controlling and what we can use. this is a primarily iraqi project, we cannot do without support, but the same time we need to go through that. this relationship is many in washington caused -- pause. -- how dound, how the they conflict? lukman faily: we do have

problems with each other. wehad been careful in how handle the relationship. -- ave eric: but is there operational? it is very important for us. forward, been more very few advisers have come to the u.s.. eric: 200 iranians on the ground? lukman faily: they are literally inviting us. ,hey had different techniques

different experiences. commonalities, but as far as the front is concerned, we need to be extremely careful. we need others. belgium, we do not need there -- support from a believe you need some sort of support. common thread with other countries. -- threat with other countries. we have no psychological obstacle to the support of the country. eric: one more question and then i will turn it over to the audience. one of the main messages that has come from secretary johnson, this messaging campaign, the strength of the counter propaganda machine that has been

generating in recent months, you said that this cannot be a message, and american message, but i am sure that you have worked hard with your colleagues in baghdad. what is going on in iraq, working with them in the gulf, trying to combat this message. maybe these organizations have more credibility? lukman faily: the primary message we are talking about is --isis, we need to get rid of it. that is the key message. each foreign entity should not hijack the city does this in the brand. -- that -- to that fact,

real thingot see the isis. they talk about the richness of them, you do not need to be very rich to be destructive. .hey do not pay effect, do they hijack the majority coming of. -- majority, no. had: it seems like they money to spend and money to burn. women and children come in and

maybe a part of this settlement campaign. have you -- how do you combat that? my specialty is an encounter messaging. we are going to succeed in andying pressure on isis preventing them from using resources. i have been in the treasury for many years and i have been that i'm listening to people explain the financial measures and how they cannot work. 2006 when wen first started to divide the sanctions strategy in the one thing everyone agreed on was that engines can't work. and now the only thing they agree on was economic and financial pressure. we can do this, we know how to do it, and we will succeed in depriving them of their ability to use resources.

eric: john, you said that counter messaging is an uphill battle. we have heard, this message is resonating with you who are trying to hear it. -- with young people who are trying to hear it. john allen: we are constantly looking at this. regionalut reinforcing , ethnic, religious norms that work. of families, the aspects regional societies. these creative strength and if he will and ability -- and if he be strong.ility to by talking constantly with regional partners, for

example, within the middle east you will hear the case of jordan aboutg of jordan, talk it, taking back to the. counter messaging and the importance of the city must have an area safe and a muslim voice. ,hen i was in southeast asia they are deeply concerned about the potential of the spread of violent extremism in groups -- and groups that will stabilize over the long term. we will probably see counter messaging joint operations, which there was one just opened in abu dhabi, and we will probably see one in southeast asia and in other places as well, so that we can create a regional and international network of messaging sensors that we can energize quickly and

use localized messaging that will provide support to counter those messages. eric: none of them will have relevance unless you defeat isis on the ground. we need to create a perception that they are losing or you -- john allen: they are losing. when you listen to tactical operations, they have problems with. how long after -- problems with more out -- moreale. ofy rebel against that type killing they were doing. time, a moment in the campaign when everybody fed we are going to lose this unit cash --eat victory for

they were terrified of being sense to combine ashkelon. recent activities along the border rendered clear messages, that there were many places within the infrastructure resume reception -- infrastructure where the row -- morale is not good. eric: -- lukman faily: just to follow up, mainstream islam in the sense of focused messaging, that is something we all need to work on. we have a global message. aspect, thatther

is more manageable and there is a coalition focus on. unfortunately, the branch isis will not diminish. eric: turning it over to questions from the audience. please stand. with cbs news. question for donald. can you describe -- john allen. can you describe the relations with the turkish government and -- possibility of including it has been well known that the turks were accident and was like to see a regime replaced by

those in the north, was that part of the discussions to obtain -- john allen: it is not part of the conversation. not all. a question for mr. glaser. there were some conflicting reports after the iran you were -- the iranian deal, can you moneyy if general some asked if the general is in line to get some money and where you consulted for his name on the list? daniel glaser: i'm not here to talk about those matters with iran.

as everyone knows, there is engines will be lifted and iran complies. toh respect to sales -- details, i would have to get back to you. is he on what was that list -- on what list? daniel glaser: his involvement in terrorist activities, he would remain a threat. to thed be related nuclear program, those sanctions would be lifted. in the back. i would like to have a

question to the ambassador. mr. ambassador, what is iraq? shiite, or a group of nationalists? here youit going from have the easiest -- how do you see it today? me -- i'm a: let kurd and a shiite. i think that iraq has involved a country -- you all as a country. onhave a new focus, based democracy and liberal economy. our past, we are in of

all the country -- you've all evolovingry -- country. are we moving forward? it is ongoing. it is how we want to move forward. interest and prosperity of that country, and intelligence same we have had. of that has taken that weter the spring, know what we can do about it. we have an identity.

it is up to us to define and move forward. over in the corner. tv.rom german some european countries are trying a new approach, denmark focusing on foreign fighters returning to the country, trying to find those who might be disillusioned and it would be us.ng as advocates against that is a strong and powerful message. a return fighters that this has nothing to do with islam, it is the pure slaughter of women and children. is there an approach we should pursue in the future? yes.allen: when foreign fighters come home, how we do with them will be important. the idea of a single sanction

solution, which could mean imprisonment, will not end up delivering as all were we have never -- delivering. denmark is a leader in this. been a good bit of time studying is singapore. a key member of the coalition and they have an active program for the foreign fighters they have arrested or that have come home with the intention of not permitting long-term detention or imprisonment to be the outcome. you view this in a circular way, you're looking at , whether itlization

is the family or social media, you can have a powerful effect on moment of radicalization by recruiting foreign fighters, rehabilitating, reintegrating them, so that their voices are prominent in the process at the front end of the establishment. the two most important voices that we have heard in the process and is something we watch closely and encourage adapt, hashat -- to been the foreign fighter that is disillusioned and is able to notive to get home, this is an islamic utopia, this is a nightmare. so rehabilitated foreign fighters and the other voice that is powerful is the mother of the family that has given a somebody to be a formatter and they have gone and they have them, they areth

gone or killed. or they come back and they are in long-term detention. so those two factors are very important in the radicalization -- dee radicalization radicalization. found national public radio. following on his skin and that question and morale. seeing interrupted in a desert from fighters there -- uptick in desertion from fighters there?

john allen: yes. wherever their point of origin is, joining the only cause -- holy cause, is often -- dispels very quickly. we have heard about surgeons -- desertions. even with those reports, we have many who are executed not display any willingness to take it apart from the internal regulations. so the sense that they are agent or not -- juggernaut, that is far from the truth. it is nowhere near the truth. eric: in the middle. seems that this is a battle

for hearts and minds. it is the treated as a military type of operation. so the question is, to what extent or should the government be trying to win the hearts, what is going on in the middle east is an example of why there should be a separation of mosque and state. -- shiitesat sheds and sunnis are fighting within, this happened in egypt, every country proves the point that the mixture of religion and they statehood bad idea -- , it is a bad idea. the question is, to what extent

on the military could you comment on what should be done in that area? lukman faily: there is a sense isis breathing space. to that effect, iraq and other areas focus on the military side. but -- from the moment, the heritage and culture, that is a threat. own destruction. inwill take a lot of damage itself. trying to contain the problem in and whate east, libya

is happening that has to do with shiites and sunnis. this is more of a disillusionment that we need to focus on. i do not think that the united states should focus on an anti-islamic idea. it should focus on bringing parties together, colors together, whether in egypt were in saudi arabia and others in as the message of ideology. that is constipation. i do nothat i can -- think that it can separate the mosque from the state. it would be a futile product. however, for the state to have

respect of the international that is a clear message we need to work on. i want to thank all of the panels. panelists.-- [applause] [applause] >> this weekend, housing, books, in american history. atsidential candidate speak the soapbox beginning on saturday afternoon. likee afternoon, more covers from the iowa's the fair -- iowa state fair.

sunday morning at 10:30 a.m., talking about his most recent book, america. and with many presidential candidate visiting iowa state fair, we will history of the area and activity that they presidential race. and on the civil war. battle, the closing of one of the confederacy's last words. -- forms. abusemittee was a heroin in the u.s. and possible solutions to the problem.

drughite house director of control policy and the dea administrator testified. >> the subcommittee will be in order. the chair will be authorized to declare recesses at anytime. we welcome our witnesses today. on the people is profound challenge with the growing heroin epidemic. the number of those -- suffered its overdoses in six days this past february.