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tv   Branch Davidian Standoff  CSPAN  August 17, 2015 6:33pm-6:51pm EDT

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clayton moore had a gun belt made for her. he had his own gun belts made and presented it to her, that is the identicals of the ones that were used in the television productions and the movie productions and that sort of thing. the pistols are replicas but the gun belt is original. and then we have one of the hats that was -- that was produced for him to wear in the tv series. this material, or things that are actually tied directly to the production of the lone ranger and we are just delighted to have them. the texas rangers really seem to have fired people's imaginations. since the 1840's, they have been a part of american culture, both as a pop culture item and a real thing. the reason the museum exists is to kind of perpetuate the heritage that the rangers bring to us. you know, it's sort of like gary cooper's high noon. they are regarded as the few people taking on overwhelming odds and, you know, in the cause of what is right and just
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and should be done. people come here to the texas ranger hall of fame and museum because they want to see the pieces of this history to kind of immerse themselves in it and there is always a chance since we have a texas ranger company on site here that they can meet a real, live texas ranger, which is what a lot of them would like to do. >> in 1993 the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms raided the branch davidian compound outside waco, texas. after a fierce gun battle, a 51-day standoff ensued and ended with a fire on the religious compound that killed 76 people. as the c-span cities tour of waco continues, we talk about the branch davidians with the religion professor from baylor niversity.
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[gunshots] >> bring the tanks and stuff around here, i tell you what. being an american first i'm the kind of guy that i'll stand in front of a tank. you can run over me but i'll be biting one of the tracks. no one is going to hurt me or my family. that's american policy here. you could have arrested me any day as i jogged up and down this road. you could have arrested me going to town or going to walmart. waco is going to bear witness against the a.t.f. and i do not appreciate it and never will i ever appreciate somebody coming here with two helicopters and cattle trailers and all that and pushing people around with guns. i'll meet you at the door step
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any day. you know? somebody will get hurt if you want to keep playing that game. i'm talking to you. somebody is going to get hurt. >> david, individuals inside the branch davidian compound, exit the compound now. submit to the proper authorities, david. david, you have had your 15 minutes of fame. it's time to leave the uilding. >> in 1992, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms began investigating a group outside of waco, texas, known as the branch davidians. it was believed that the group
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was making illegal modifications to firearms and were stockpiling the weapons. there had also been accusations of child abuse brought against the group's leader, david koresh. the a.t.f. attempted to execute a search warrant at the group's compound on sunday morning, february 28, 1993. a gun battle broke out between a.t.f. agents and members of the branch davidians inside. four agents were killed during the shootout. another 16 were injured. five branch davidians were also killed and david koresh was wounded. what followed was a 51-day standoff between federal agents and the davidians. the siege finally ended on april 19, 1993, when the f.b.i. under orders from attorney general janet reno tried to gas the members out of the building. fire broke out and spread throughout, killing 76 people inside including david koresh. >> the beginnings are with a
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fellow by the name of victor hadas. he was bulgarian and therefore would have been orthodox church. he emigrated to illinois and here he visited a service of the seven-day adventist church, which emphasized its basic idea is the return of cleist -- christ, advent or second coming of christ. he was convinced by their teachings. so he left his original denomination, became a 7th day adventist, and he began to write his own literature and he the parent ique 7th day adventist church thinking they were not really conforming to the teachings of the church. that they had relaxed a lot. and so he wanted to reform the church. in the end the church rejected
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his proposals for reform and basically kicked him out of the church. so he started looking for sent place to go and out scouts and finally decided on this area near waco, texas. he was seen as kind of a divine figure like elijah or john the baptist to announce the coming of the new kingdom. in this tradition of the davidians you have the notion of the importance not only of scriptures and authority but of a prophet and recognizing what a prophet can do for the community. his idea was it's like taking a scroll and unrolling it and you find new information that you can read as you go along. he said the prophet does that. and so i'm giving new insights to you. so this is why, then, other people will follow him.
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so in 19 # 5, a fellow by the name of ben rhoden who was familiar with and had been with this teaching and had been with them from time to time returned and said, you all are looking for a sign. i'm the sign. i have yet more information. another message for you. his idea was that, to call this new movement the branch. what had been revealed to him was the name of this leader should be the branch, of this movement. so this is where we get the branch davidians added on. he led until 1978. meanwhile, his wife, lois, also had a special teaching, so when her husband died, the followers ust moved to her to lead them.
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then she left another six, eight years after that. so she had some influence until 1986 is when she died. but when vernon howell appeared very scene, 1980, 1981, soon people began to look to him. he, i think, was considered the leader of the movement by 1983, 1984. so even before she was out of the picture, people began to be drawn to him by virtue of his ability to quote the bible, string passages together, consider himself a second messiah, lamb of god, or using language such as that. >> maybe god is the one. maybe, not for sure. ut maybe god is the one that's indicted a good -- god speaks of the man is what. revelations.
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god is what? >> creator. >> of? >> all things. >> david koresh came here, or vernon howell, who changed his name to david koresh, came here , you , and he started know, basically saying that he had a message and that god showed him things and lois studied with him. -- to a ped into a oint where lois called saul in april of 1984 to come to mount caramel and to listen to what vernon at that time had to say. and to see if he was going to be the next spiritual leader. >> talks about a ravenous bird from the east. a person. his name is koresh according to scripture. some theology majors say angel
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koresh which is english cyrus was a persian king. but the mystery is that the ancient sire ress -- in isaiah 45, that surname is sigh ress, hich is a last name. revelations says he has a new name. you have to look at a lot of things to catch the full picture. >> he believed he came to bring judgment on the church. and that he did. because we have to judge between truth and error and whether we should follow him or we should follow the holy spirit. nfortunately, it was prophesied that he would lead the leaders or church into apositive tassie so that meant that the -- into apostasy so that meant the leaders or elders which represent the
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church would have to go along ith him, and they did. and they even rejected lois as the spiritual leader. now, she died two years later. o it allowed him to really take hold. >> it's not against firearms -- against the law to buy anything they sell at a gun show. and when this is all resolved, you know, hey. yellow sheet is legal. the accusation is not. >> the question of collection of firearms there is much debated. that was the basis as i understand it for the warrant for the arrest and so forth. but to read the davidians, many of them, even in leadership positions, said that they didn't know that was going on
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or what little they did know about it they said was being used for a way to make money just to, you know, to go to a gun show and sell these for a prove it. but using that as a method of making money, you know, caused some eyebrows to be raised i'm sure, because if you're coming from a, basically, pacifist or conscientious objection tradition to that, well, then the claim obviously is, well, it's just to make money. battle 't there to do with anybody and so forth. so that was a difference. then koresh's theology -- he argued that he was supposed to fire the 24 elders that are mentioned in the book of
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revelation to be -- there at the last judgment and so forth. said that he would cohabit with wives of the men who were there, the married couples and so forth, so this was a huge transition as well. >> the question is, what am i doing? what am i doing with all these children? what's going on here? well, you know, god is god and this nation -- in this nation and in this nation it says in god we trust on our currency. and these children that i have are for a reason and unless we really have the ear and the eyes to open ourselves up to be able to really read the scriptures and understand the prophets and a lot of the seven seals, this would seem --.
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so, there again, this would be contrary to what victor hadas had said certainly in terms of we want to live holy lives and we want to be separate from the world and so forth. so this looks like really a change in terms of this individual and his influence. but on the other hand, the davidians will, you know, say, some of them will say, well, if this was what he thought is the will of god it was time to have these children born and who better to do that than the messiah or the representative of god. you know, they have their rationale. but i think most outsiders would pretty severely question that. >> david, individuals inside the branch davidian compound, we are in the process of placing tear gas into the building.
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exit the compound now. submit to the proper authority, david. >> during the siege, the f.b.i. came to me and they asked me if i knew, you know, koresh. i told them, yes, i did. so i told them, i can go in there and defuse the situation. i can tell koresh that he's brought the attention of the world. he's done what he was called to do. and to come out. and he'd be better off to come out alive and teach the truth than, you know, come out dead. but the prophesy said he would die. so they said, no. we can't let you go in there. we've got negotiators and so on and so forth. said, okay.
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>> madame attorney general, i am extremely disappointed in the decisions that have been made out of the department of justice, the federal bureau of investigation, the agency of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. now, when in god name is the law enforcement at the federal level going to understand that these are very sensitive events that you can't put barbed wire, guns, f.b.i., secret service around them, send in sound 24 hours a day and night, and then nder why they do something unstable. >> nothing we do now can change the suffering felt by the
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families of the a.t.f. agents or the families of those who perished in the compound. we must do everything we can to learn from these events about what we can do in the future to prevent people like david koresh or people motivated by other thoughts from causing such a senseless, horrible loss of human life. >> i think that this was, you know, a learning experience as well. i think we've had a lot of care in handling little groups since that time and that i would hope that both sides would learn something from all of that. and the constitution says that we should make no laws establishing religion nor preventing free exercise of religion. and so here little groups that want

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