♪ on today's "washington journal" we devote the program to police and the rebuilding of trust between police and people of color in light of past events in ferguson, missouri, baltimore, and other areas. three guests joining us from richmond, virginia they drawn. until then, we want to get a sense about the trust you have in the police in your community. if you want to give us your experience, three lines this morning. if you had experience, maybe stopped or had a positive interaction with police, you may

be you want to share them. if you are a police officer and want to give your perspective on the idea of trust, 202-748-8001. for all others call @cspanwj --202-748-8002. if you want to tweet us our address is @cspanwj. e-mailwant to send us an .n this topic you can do that the latest copy of time magazine talking about this, they have a poll taken about the level of confidence people have in their police. the poll was taken, 52% of respondents said that they had a great deal of confidence in the police. by comparison, those same people said -- 72% said they had

confidence in the military. 31% had confidence in public schools and a present of confidence in congress but when it comes to police, the level of confidence expressed, 52%. if you go to the pew research center they put out polls on a lot of topics when it comes to policing, this one dealt with confidence in the police, this is the divide between blacks and whites. this was done in august of 2014, at the time when it was asked about the confidence in local police, 30% said they had confidence in local police to treat whites and blacks equally, that is the total of everybody. those who identified as white, 35% said they had confidence that police treated people equally. people who identified as black, 70% -- 17% said they had that confidence. today we will look at police and not only law enforcement side but the idea of confidence that the police had, community

policing and the relationship the police have with their communities and topics related. you are invited to call in during the show. in this half-hour, the trust you have in police. if you had experience with police, give perspective at 202-748-8000. four police officers and law enforcement --202-748-8001. all others, 202-748-8002. first call comes from lisa in outlook turkey, new mexico. -- albuquerque, new mexico. tell us your story. she has experience with police. caller: i was calling to talk , why youlary clinton don't never put her on. host: we will stop there because today we are devoting to another of hillary coverage clinton on other forums, today we are talking about policing.

north carolina, carol,. caller: you have a wonderful show. i am living in north carolina and a police attempted to murder me 18 months ago. chargespossible to file against the police when they tried to kill you because the system is built against you. almost completely destroyed my life and because of this i tried to run for the -- decided to run or the presidency of the united states on a write-in ballot. i want to end the federal war on drugs. host: seven baltimore, maryland, go ahead -- sam in all the more, maryland, go ahead. caller: my experience with all its departments, whenever i needed them they were not there. when i tried to call them, either 911 operators were all

copson standby or the would take an hour or so to get there. i did not have anyone crashing through the window, but honestly i know i cannot call them if i need them. host: talk about the experiences of why you would need them. caller: there have been times when i was threatened because i was living in not the best neighborhood. local dope dealer came to me at one point said he would call his boys. encountered -- i i live in baltimore city -- i under bikesgroups -- on dirt bikes, i called 911,

they surrounded my car -- host: you say that is consistent with operators being busy and not being able to get through on 911 lines? caller: every time i related that story, they say that as usual around here. host: new york, our line for all others. long horseman, we have a line for you --202-748-8001. -- law enforcement, we have a line for you -- 202-748-8001. caller: i trust holies, i always have. -- i trust holies, i always have, but i am a white woman. don't move this way.

to show they are threatened so they do not get killed. -- so they are not threatened, so they do not get killed. i have never had to get that talk to my son. there is a big difference antitrust police and -- and i trust holies and that is the way po --lice. policeo you think they can do things differently or do things that would build or expand trust? especially communities of color? caller: when police used to be more active in the community, they used to be more active and more visible, instead of being in their cars all the time. i think policing used to be

better because you got to know the people in those neighborhoods that you policed. ,ow, you do not know anybody you just arrest people. you do not know what their circumstances are. and most of them do not care. host: that is sarah from new york talking about her perspective on trusting the police in your community. that is the topic we will take on. steve from chatsworth, illinois, good morning. caller: good morning. i had experiences with police , they executed one arrant looking for drugs and broke down my back door. they did not find any narcotics or drugs. $250 checke a measly

for detroit my door. they just -- for destroying my door. they destroyed my whole house. execute the power to knowledgeithout any of how that person is or anything like that. i lived in chicago,. i know firsthand information that they used to go in at nighttime in drug ridden neighborhoods and deal drugs. corrupted.olice are it is sad. it is a sad situation. states.nited

host: jason in massachusetts, a police officer, go ahead. caller: i am not a police officer i used to worst dispatch for a local police department in massachusetts. ,n regard to the general public the majority of calls that come happy,not on the side of jovial issues. every issue that a police officer deals with is not going to be in the general public a great environment from the onset. is a lot of anger and animosity from the general public toward police officers. that leads to more issues. the incarceration rate is very but there istate, a lot of criminal intent in the -- on par witht

other countries, they do not deal with the levels of violence and aggression and anger. we do have a lot we need to fix things -- general animosity towards those in law if that were to -- we cannot have a system of anarchy. the united states is not set up like that, we are set up to be peaceful. in terms of what has been reported, there is way too much divisiveness towards those in law-enforcement. host: is there a way to change that? caller: there are different training forms. in the ways that law-enforcement officers are trained.

apple yout a ripe take it right from the branch of a tree, you do not take it from the ground. those who have been in law enforcement for many years say they have a set way of doing things which may not flow correctly with the way society wants to be treated. it's are going -- new recruits are going to renew procedures -- through new procedures. community dialogue, not so much angle -- anger from the general public toward police officers. there has to be an understanding law enforcement officer is not dealing with great situations all the time. it is a stressful environment they work in. host: that is jason giving the perspective of law enforcement, one of three lights we have that you can call in.

maryland, good morning, go ahead. caller: this is my first time calling so i will try to be brief and get to the point. i have had several run-ins with the law as far as being a criminal justice major at prince george's community college and an african-american in the most predominantly african-american community in the world, prince george's county. hired had experience were and pulled over about 60 times and only received three tickets. most of them have been the police seeing if they can find somebody to may be breaking the law and most of the time it is people of color. also, we need to take a look at the united states as a whole. if america treated african-americans this way how do we expect us to treat than the people in the rest of the world who do not have a voice or the resources.

who don't have the urban league to fight for them. when we say we are trying to promote polish community efforts, those guys -- police community efforts, those guys have good days and bad days. and may keep elevating if they are having a bad day. we need to look back and have a congressional congress where we look at the constitution, because right now if i was driving talking to you i would be writing the law. -- breaking the law. most of the time, it is the choir we are preaching to. host: jeffrey in capitol heights, maryland is next, a military police officer. go ahead. saying, i ami was 60 plus years old and i have never had a good experience with

police officers, even though i have been one. i have never had a good experience. it is probably because i am african-american. that is what my assumption is. host: when you say you have never had a good experience, what do you mean by that? caller: i have been abused -- i have been beaten. i have been pulled over and harassed, cursed. i have been talked to with disrespect. even though i have been respectful to the officers. host: you said you were a police officer -- you served as a police officer in your previous experience? caller: yes. host: what form? caller: military police.

host: talk about being a police officer and relate it to the discussion of trust between police and the community because you have seen both sides, what can be done to improve relations that built that trust? caller: the whole system needs to be taken out and burned and restructured completely. premise of america has been a lie because most americans -- most people in america have not been treated fairly. heidi, goodnd, morning. disabled, they come to my house 10 times a month. y filed a false repeat --

police report. [indiscernible] i filed a complaint, nothing happened. they harassed me. i am disabled. they come to my street to harass me. month.s a my son and i are both disabled. they want to beat us up and harass my son. they come to my house, knock on my door. they say i have committed crimes. out.not cuss that -- them out. host: reuters did a poll taking

a look at trust and put it on their website. it says that the police officers routinely lie to serve their own interest, 31 percent of americans believe they do and that number rises to 45% among african-americans, 41% among young people and 39% among democrats, republicans reject one.charge 321 -- three to we will have guest for the remainder of the program starting in 10 minutes and until yourwant to get a sense of trust in police. for those of you it with experience with police call 202-748-8000. douglas is up next. douglas is up next and we will take his call in just a moment. this is part of a program that

we are going to have throughout the day. if you join us throughout the program we will talk about a couple of things, later on the program the police chief of richmond, virginia will join us to talk about what it is like to be in a major metropolitan city, a large african-american presence and talk about the idea of policing and building trust in communities. we will learn about training, specifically what happens when police have to train and the conditions they trained cadets. have the mayor of richmond, virginia, and he will talk about not only be policing aspect, but dealing with his relations with the police department and community and what he does to help and fund police in that effort. that is coming up, we had a chance to visit with the richmond police department and talk with captain angela green

with the community youth and intervention services, and she talked about the role of community care and development. we get some of her perspective. >> our community care unit is comprised of many different entities, not just community care which deals with citizens out here in the community, it is to bridge the gap between the police department and the citizens. we want to forge great partnerships with the citizens, be transparent with them, let them know what we do as far as law enforcement, our roles and responsibilities and safeguarding the communities we serve. through community care we put together many programs where we not only do neighborhood watch to get the citizens involved, we do business watches, so business owners can get involved and put on an academy, our citizens .cademy, hispanic academy

we mentor the children in the city through our mentoring program, where our middle school children with partner up with officers and our afterschool program in elementary schools and our young adult police commissioners program for the high schoolers. this is together to bring communities closer to law enforcement, we do not want the community to see officers as ones that you call when something bad happens. and someone ends up going to jail. we want to show the other side of law enforcement where we want to prevent crimes from happening, educate the citizens on how to prevent themselves from becoming victims, protect property andheir businesses and educate children are not to be fearful of law enforcement but to understand that we are here for them, to protect them and make sure they

live in a safe and healthy environment. host: that is some of the perspective you will get as we go throughout the morning. doug was in north carolina, good morning, go ahead -- douglas in north carolina, good morning, go ahead. caller: cap hole where it's said the republicans rejected it wholeheartedly, that based -- that poll, where it's said the republicans rejected wholeheartedly. -- i live in this the inner city of baltimore a long time ago, i moved to north carolina in the early 1990's. now, there was a time when heroin was an inner-city problem . a problem with blacks in the inner-city. now, it is an epidemic among white people using cocaine. and they use the word epidemic.

if the police were gunning down unarmed white youth the word epidemic would come up again. -- when the kids got killed in colorado -- blacks in the inner-city were getting killed because of the crack cocaine epidemic was all over the place. columbine,appened in kid getting shot going to school, they said, this is an epidemic. do was start youthsg unarmed white and see how things will change, there would be a big change. it should not be that way. it looks like that is the way it is going to be in this country and white people won't never understand why black lies the matter -- lives do matter. host: dan from buffalo, missouri

is next, a police officer. theer: i have an issue with -- how people respond to a police officer pulling them over. show officers respect and do not mount him in a stop, keep your hands on the wheel and respond, "yes, sir." people will find they are treated with respect. i see this every day. thatave people automatically become defensive, aggressive and it is not going to help the situation. we need to have classes on both sides of that fence, you understand? host: how do they handle these situations in missouri as far as classes or training -- what

things are being done in light of events in ferguson? caller: in this part of missouri i know of none. i think it needs to be a nationwide program where people are brought in and learn how to police.and work with as far as a stop goes. if you are pulled over, you should have a certain amount of respect for police officers. a lot of these guys are getting shot. if you are going to come up as defensive and aggressive, they will take a stance against you. host: that is dan who gives us his perspective as a police officer, we will be joined by head offred durham, the the richmond police department in virginia to talk about the topics of policing and community policing. we will take calls with him and talk with them in a few moments.

john is from niagara falls. hello, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a mixed bag about the police in niagara falls. becoming at is little better than what it used to be. i was physically deformed by an officer while i was unconscious once. a police officer a few years ago aided and abetted a developer to steal from me and i am in court right now. the police chief here is a good man. he came to my house personally, i guess it was because of the signs i had all over my house. something, try to do but they are not, a lot of the younger officers, their training seems to be better. but we have a lot of corruption here.

it is left over from a criminal organization. againstt a thing people, it is changing, but there is corruption on the police force here. the with the judges and investigating attorney, a head judge and a head district attorney. you have to go in front of each other. i have a mixed bag of feelings on the way the police are right now. i know there are a lot of corrupt police and a lot of good police. years insit 2.5 prison, i had a job for the last three years and have never been in more trouble. i have different views on this. there are bad police out there.

and they cover up for each other no matter what, even if they know it is wrong they cover up for each other. host: let's go to bill in santa rosa, california. caller: i respect the opinion of dan the officer from moser and that we have to respect the police that he has to understand that in places like santa rosa, we live in real fair. i passage trying every day when i go to work for randy lopez, a child shot because he was playing in a field with a toy gun. our police have a history of being trigger-happy at myself not long ago came to my front door when i heard voices and found myself raising several officers -- facing several officers screaming at me, "where is the hispanic with begun -- ?"th begun -- with the gun was though i told them it

probably not a real weapon and somebody was shooting a movie, i waited for them to give me indication that i was safe and they just let. -- left. toy left me to call 911 figure it out. that is just one of many instances where the police are trigger-happy, violent, and not very helpful and good with the community. host: the community in santa rosa, have a asked the police to consider their practices -- has there been some sort of meeting with the police? yes, there was: a huge response from the hispanic community and several protests downtown, and they even closed city hall for several days and had summit meetings disrupted. it is a touchy point appear and with the events -- up here and with events nationwide it has only gotten worse.

,ost: in light of those events we want to spend the remainder of our program talking about the topic of policing and community relations. what police practices when it comes to their training, the idea of building trust in a community and three guests will join us as we continue on our program. richmond, virginia, we will chat with chief alfred durham. we will discuss lessons learned from the high-profile police instances involving shooting. later on we will talk with party powers, andarvey training. but first, we want to let you know that c-span spent the day at the richmond police angelaent chatting with green, the community services

leader and part of the conversation was about asking about how they strike a balance between policing and protecting the rights of citizens. we strike that balance through training and the training of our officers. the constitutional law, the right of the citizens, but when we strike that balance we gain a trust of the public through that. part of gaining that trust is educating them on what our roles and responsibilities are, what our crimes, what are types of crimes they can be arrested on, how to prevent themselves from being victims of crimes. more importantly, giving them the opportunity to share their experiences with us as well as our experience with them to our academy, citizens academy for instance, they come to the police headquarters for one day out of the week for six weeks. they get to learn everything we do as far as -- even

investigating a homicide, and this evening i -- aggravated assaults. our trainingough academy where we show them use of force simulators and when officers have to interact and possibly a shoot or no shoot scenario. they get to see the other side of policing. so that they are more aware of what we do on an everyday basis and not just what they see on tv. host: our first guest of the morning is chief alfred durham of the richmond, virginia police department joining us from richmond, virginia as we continue on our conversation. thank you for joining us. guest: good morning host. conversationnal about building trust and communities after what happened in baltimore and ferguson, give us your perspective of what happened in those events but what it does to the general idea of building trust in the communities you serve?

guest: i believe it opened our eyes as a law enforcement community. trust is what it is all about and in order for us to be a lawful and legal to do our job, we need that trust. au look at ferguson, it was sad situation, you had an officer and an individual who had an encounter based on the relationships that the community had been there was not a strong support in the community or that relationship. when you look at baltimore, it was a loss of life at the hand of the police officers creating turmoil and as you see the devastation that resulted. jeeves of police across the country have been having conversations -- chiefs of police across the country have been having conversations about how we have to react with these negative encounters across the country. host: what are you hearing -- what are you learning from these

conversations? guest: what i am learning is we have to change as leaders in law enforcement the way we train our officers. and the way we community -- communicate with the community. the link trust takes time and communication -- building trust takes time and communications. we have to continue to work on that. it is not easy in some communities. host: as far as building that trust and increasing communication, what works in those situations, how do you do those things? guest: in the city of richmond, in 2005, the cheap came and created the concept of community policing. for the last 10 years, the men and women of the richmond police department get it. februaryer as chief in and the thing for me was get better at what we were doing. when the last 10 years, crime is going down in our population is going up. we talk about use of forces in

this community, there are not a lot of complaint in richmond. the ability and relationships the police departments have fostered. host: when you talk to people in the community, how do you communicate that, especially if you have instances of shootings in richmond, how do you can indicate to the public what happened so the sense of trust goes forward and they learn everything they need to know about the situation? 4, i: unfortunately on may had my first case where one of my officers had to use force with resulted in death. there was an uproar in the community. thatives and friends said the officer stood over this individual and reloaded. this was an armed felon who shot

one of my officers and wounded one of my officers. it was important to get in front of that and have those conversations and always tell the community, having that open dialogue. i cannot give you answers now, i was not on the scene, my investigators were not on the scene. one of the things i did was have town hall meetings, we have full precincts in richmond and i would do everything we and introduce myself and listened. i believe in listening and learning so we can react to provide the quality of services that the citizens in the community of to expect. it is all about relationships and the men and women in the richmond police department have -- is a model for the community as a nation to say, this is how you do it. host: it was during the shooting incidents, one of the things you said was that this is not ferguson or you imply that. what does it mean you had to say

that? guest: i thought it was important i conveyed that message to the community. was -- the community where there was an uproar. i refuse to have a community come out and create havoc, right and civil disorder when we do not have all the facts. just like north alston, this is not the case where we had broke officers, we have -- rogue officers, we have community asked officers committed to the community. it was important to put that out there. ,hen you have the situations and i do not wish that on anyone, my officers are not looking to shoot, this was an incident where my officers received a call for service for a person armed with a weapon, not racial profiling, it was not

them harassing an african-american in the community. it is important for me to get in front of that and reassure the community that there will be a fair and impartial investigation and i am not the one who will make the determination of if it will be a justified shooting. we will send that to the commonwealth's attorney's office to make that determination. host: our first guess is chief alfred durham of the richmond, virginia police department here if you want to ask them questions about the topic of policing's and community relations, -- if you have had a spirit with police --202-748-8000. if you are a police officer, 202-748-8001. all others, 202-748-8002. richmond residents, a line for you, 202-748-8003. as you tell your officers -- what is your general philosophy when it comes to policing? at thei go back and look

father of policing in the u.k., he created the metropolitan police department in london known as scotland yard. he set the policies that police officers had. one of the things he said is that the police offer -- the public are the police and the police are the public. we are human beings also. , well everybody i speak to make mistakes. as a leader, my management team, it is our responsibility to police andrain our when disciplining needs to be imposed, i impose it. my philosophy is, transparency, credibility and credibility leads to legitimacy and transparency or people we serve and that is so important for me. host: our first call for you comes from william in tennessee.

you are on with cheese -- chief durham. when police are called or they possibly over, -- pull somebody over, if somebody is threatening their life why can't they shoot them in the neck? if they have anger -- [indiscernible] [indiscernible]

you want to tell me they are stronger than the police? these guys are 30 years old, 40. they work out. host: thank you for the call. i think part of the conversation he brought was the idea of when to use force. that is something your department has to deal with? i cannot tell the lobster went to use force, he or she has to make that quick assessment if there is a threat. i think the caller mentioned traffic stops. -- they areant asking the questions, how should we be conducting ourselves on traffic stops? education is important for my police department. from the officer level, we pass out information and go to community meetings and take our show on the road. we tell people to comply, put

your hands on the steering wheel and make sure you have your drivers license, your insurance and registration and complying and listen to the officer. wheremes we have bad days we should not be expressing our feelings toward a citizen. we support communication on both sides. host: let's hear from rose ann hamilton, ohio -- in hamilton, ohio. caller: two things i want to, don. -- comment on. officers is i believe are spending so much time trying to look for people and you can call it a shakedown, but they are spending so much time trying to be revenue generators instead of taxpayers paying a decent officer to these officers and they do not have to find property they can confiscate

from people to build revenue for the police force. i get tired of hearing so many people talking about most of the officers are good cops. that sounds wonderful, but all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to stay silent. when you have this wall of silence and police protecting each other, witnessing the police that are brutal and not being fair to the public, and they stay silent, why aren't the good officers doing everything they can to get the bat officers out of their district -- bad officers out of their district and off the police force? guest: i want to talk about the asset forfeiture, here in richmond we do not use asset forfeiture as a revenue generator. there are federal laws that mandate we get certain funding back from seizures.

there is a culture and police, and sometimes culture is hard to break. one of the things i just published with a policy change that says any person in his department that has knowledge of violation of policy, they have by the end of their shift, they must notify internal affairs. i am taking the seriously because i'm listening and learning and acting. host: ken in alexandria, virginia, a police officer, go ahead. caller: good morning chief. been a police and i am now a federal agent. i was a police officer in camden, new jersey for five years. one thing i always knew and what i was taught was to what bb and it is almost -- walking the beat and it is almost like a heartbeat. a lot of the new officers that get in the field do not understand what it is to live in

the community or understand protect and serve. to the caller that spoke about being a wall of silence, it is the same in the community. people a lot of times are reluctant to help and provide but every community has different needs and desires. -- police officers cannot solve all those problems. i would work with children and still do and go home to philadelphia and work with youth. it starts in the home. uniform, youthe are a human being, i go to church with people, i am not a police officer when i am doing that. everybody wants to go home and celebrate living. it is a tough job. a previous caller being a citizen might be disgruntled or under the impression a wall of

silence exists, but it is insulting when there are good officers. you have to call someone and when you dial that number you will need a police officer to respond. that is a great comment. one of the things, getting out in front -- one of my things my staff knows is that i do not believe in sitting behind a desk, i am out leading the charge in my officers see that. one of the things i created is walking beats. dono-fault of their own, we -- we go from radio assignment to radio silent, that means i have an opportunity to offer a greeting to the residents that we serve. i created permanent walking beats in every precinct. every time i graduate a recruit class i will increase those walking beats.

--t of the original officers i have officers volunteering to walk because the original officers are saying i'm a this is the best thing, what policing is all about. when we talk about culture, and how we do business, business has to change. if ferguson has not taught us anything, baltimore, people want results from the community. and ag about policing public partnership, we cannot do it alone. we have about two entered 14,000 residents -- 214 thousand residents, a small population, we put our game together, something we can i do to reduce crime. host: do most of the officers of your force live in the richmond metro area? out ofi have about 147 my 648 officers that live in the

city. there is no residential requirement. most important in, the men and women do come here are committed. a couple of weeks ago we had badges and baseball, 12 members of my command on the police department who were out there on their own time on a saturday morning at 8:00 playing baseball with 25 youths. these folks are committed in the city of richmond. host: police and community relations is the topic for this program. joining us from the richmond police department is chief alfred durham. the numbers will be on your screen. johnny from north carolina -- sorry, south carolina, you are next. caller: thank you for taking my call. i grew up in georgia in the 1960's and i had a bad experience with police, but most -- i was 13e there

and a police grabbed me and threw me against the wall for no reason and called me all type of names. i did not say anything. called and they got back in the car and drove the. have you seen a black policeman shoot a white -- how many times have you seen a black policeman shoot a white person? you never see it, they know better. is beating a man woman on the highway on camera. if that was a white woman he would be gone. host: we will let the cheap respond. -- the chief respond. to makehe officer has

the assessment if there is a threat and has to eliminate the threat. wedo not shoot to kill, shoot to eliminate a threat and i cannot give you a response on how many black officers shot white suspects. i think this is a conversation long overdue. sort of like history repeating itself, no longer is brute force tolerated in communities to reduce crime or to get the people to comply. was a young, when i officer, i am not arresting you, i am rescuing you, because sometimes people need help and having a conversation. every person i arrested i treated with respect and i had some people come back and say, because of how you treated me i am changing my ways. for those law enforcement agencies and officers who continue to be abusive and violent folks civil rights, shame on them and they get what they writes. host: have you ever had to use deadly force?

caller: -- guest: i did not. host: the caller talked about doing -- video and, how have cell phones change policing? what do you think about people recording -- what is done to policing across the nation? guest: i appreciate folks videoing. we have to look at the full story. images that are being presented, a lot of times the images that are out there, we asked the citizens if we could have copies of the video, they do not want to cooperate. they are quick to put it on social media, and i tell the people, we have to have the full package. there are cameras everywhere, one of the things we convey to our officers is that you may not see it but it is seeing you. it is watching you.

it is important that our officers know there is no crime in the citizen videotaping. one of the things i'm looking an order inwe put for body cameras. my officers are looking to embrace that technology because there is a fear that every time they go to do something they are being second-guessed about their actions and that is what you do not want is to second-guess their decision. a lot of officers are by themselves taken actions and they are being chastised for the actions they take. host: are you looking for federal funds for the body cameras? guest: we have applied for a grant and have not heard. the city council approved the budget for the funding for the cameras, so we are excited. it is not easy to say we put on a cameras on our officers, there are policies, retention schedules, privacy issues, there are a lot of moving parts but i

have a committee put together not only of personnel from the police department but from the community, i want them to have input. when they are ready to turn those cameras on, we want folks to any behind us saying, we are a part of this. the decision was not made in a vacuum but a collaborative effort tween the police department and the citizens we serve. host: christina from fremont, ohio, hi there. caller: thank you, good morning. ohio small community in there have been quite a few corruption incidences. my personal experiencing with my by an who was murdered county officer. he wasn't armed felon, that is important for everyone to understand, although it was an unloaded weapon. he was asleep the whole times,

not aware of the police being there, surrounding the house. .t is in court at this time i cannot talk much about so many things, but he was -- the gun was unloaded. the parents called for help and the police came out within an hour and a half, nobody communicated anything to him. he was asleep the entire time. they sent an armed swat team while he was asleep for medical reasons, they thought he was overdosing, did not know if he gas,- they send in tear they did not try to communicate with them. they were using the element of surprise. they send in the flash bang grenades, he jumped and they killed him. aggressive it is that only happen to my family but it has happened to seven other families in the community. i feel like the body cameras

would be an amazing things for our community to gain our trust. for all of us, but to see a --nge, to have that extra seeing what they are going through. was 7, 8ousin, it hours before the police left the house before the coroner got there anybody got removed. all of that eight hours of what was happening, the officers going through the home of everything, we could have seen that on the body cameras and they have -- could have used that in court to show us in i feel the body cameras are a great step in the right direction. i pray we can get these for our communities. officers.all the i know they have a tough job. i know there are good cops and good people. point thee at this body cameras is a great step in the right direction. host: we will let our guest

respond. i cannot get into the circumstances surrounding her but i offerth condolences to you and your family. to the we have to listen community and make necessary adjustments in our training and policies. host: from mount vernon, new york, charles, good morning. a police officer. go ahead. caller: i was a new york city police officer about 10 years. i was a training officer, i was impressed with the chief -- the beat patrol. i grew up in harlem and most of the officers in harlem were white but we never had a problem with them because we saw the same officers all the time. they us and our parents, they knew everybody. in new york, they just killed a

foot patrol and you have do nots coming and you see the same officer twice in the same community. i am 69 years old. i was stopped three or four times under the stop and frisk, i do not hang out on the corner, walking the streets. they walk up to. i was a police when he stopped and frisk law came out in the early 1970's. there was not stop and chris, they affectionately called it that, but it was stop and question with probable cause. if you feardown your life was in danger. they eliminated the probable cause part in new york and that is what caused the problem. i was impressed with the beat cop. it is the most expensive but the best way to get the community

holies -- policed. i had experience with the college community. we had a lot of problems with the college community during the vietnam war. host: we will let the chief respond. guest: you are right, charles, i remember growing up in washington, d.c., an officer was pounds,guy, about 275 but we respected him. if we did something wrong, he was taking us on to our parents and that is what it is all about. one of the things i did -- i thought about -- listening to the climate around the country, in our training academy we sent regrets for training and never put them in the streets. one of the things i did as a pilot and said for one week, or up to two weeks, send them out

into a public housing community, and hispanic community and a homeless community to interact and see what they are getting into. it is not fair for them to say what -- when they get out there, give them communities and have no expectations. trying to do things right here. host: chief alfred durham of the richmond police department joining us for a discussion on police and community police and. officers,e 202-748-8001. all others, 202-748-8002. if you live in richmond, 202-748-8003. during our first half-hour, there was a caller that says when it comes to relations with community and police there was a growing sense of general animosity between the two. guest: not at all.

i tell you, just the relationship. our faith partners here plays an important role. citizen academy, youth academy, senior academy. we have a myriad of programs to engage our youth. we have our young adult police commissioners, our explores program. i have been achieved for six months, but the men and women have set the foundation and created a bond with the community. there are sections of the community's that are challenging. one thing i noticed is that it seems to me that the youth -- certain youth in the community, they have this certain right of passage that they have to be disrespectful to authority and adults and that is creating some problems and challenges. one of the things i'm working on along with the superintendent of public schools, we are locking up a lot of young kids, youth, our future. just fights, using profanity.

want -- we wonder why they have problems with our police, so we are looking to do a creative program in just working will be schools and it a private nonprofit working to build those relationships and the -- and leave them on the right path. most important, the parents, the mother's have to be part of that, too. that is a missing link. the issues start at home. police are the face of government 24/7. we are seen as the bad guys, but we are that entity, that body that when they make the call, they expect us to be there so we have to build a relationship that they don't want a part of. it is challenging but we are up for the task. host: how much of that challenge how doeste related and that compare nationwide as far as drugs and the job of

policing? guest: it's interesting because the drug business has really changed. aiken that late 1980's -- back in the day, late 1980's and early 1990's, they were focused on deals behind the scenes. we make a lot of the cardica respite it is not that, it is a there gang violence and is a high poverty rate in the city of richmond and the mayor is doing a lot of things to create an address those issues. we are seen in face-to-face daily asked the police. and a lot of the public housing communities that we have, and we have five public housing communities, we see those relationships built. about three weeks ago, we had a homicide in the afternoon and within a couple hours, we had six tips on that community and that is pretty unprecedented. six tips within half an hour and we made an arrest and identified the suspect. host: our next call in texas.

roy is up next. caller: hi, i was up to his -- i was raised to respect the police. i've never had any issues with police, but this isn't like the community thing, but i hold it up to a huge cluster for the subdivision. we were throwing a washday party and the pool my first stop and they had a tent in the driveway and they lined up the cars by the mailbox. i asked one of the people to move the cars is a had to put mail in the mailbox and he did, but when he finished, he "f" bombed me in front of the kids who were preparing for the birthday party and the parents were sitting in the garage. they did not do anything. mb mehey did was "f" bo

until it got through. i think parents -- when they don't do anything to correct kids, it just makes things worse. kids, in general, they have no "f" ct and the older kid bombing in front of little kids, what are they learning? thank you. again, it know, starts at home. one of the things i experienced in december, there is an annual christmas parade in richmond and as we were marching down the mainstay, broad street, we went into an area called jackson ward, the predominately african-american community and there were kids lined up experiencing festivities. i greeted the kids and said merry christmas and not one of them acknowledged me. the factand about not

that they did not technology but the parents with their. -- but the parents were there and they did not say knowledge. my point is, if they needed help, would they go to us or the bandit on?the corner with the gun to resolve issues it is challenging but it starts at home. host: roseburg, oregon. duke is next for our guest. duke, good morning. go ahead. caller: yes, police chief, just remember this -- the police are not there to protect and serve the people. there are there to protect and serve the establishment. in the first place, if you want to cut down on shootings, justice armed police completely. no tasers, and the only thing they should be allowed to carry are the batons. likelyuldn't be quite so to shoot somebody if they do not have a gun. to our.

-- thank you. guest: that's interesting. i would tell you this -- since may 30, we have a fugitive initiative and 82 days, we recovered 178 firearms. from you today from january 1 to present, we have recovered over 540 illegal firearms off the street of persons. to say that we should not be armed to defend not only ourselves but mostly defend the public in those situations, i think my officers need to be armed, sir. host: john in brady's and beach. good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are on. go ahead, john. caller: sorry. i thought i got beeped off. i really respect the chief. i think he is a really smart guy and i hope he runs for congress. [laughter] i want to talk to something specific. nonviolent people that are arrested, why do they got to handcuff them?

i understand it is policy, but is there any adjustments that can be made on that? getshysics somebody arrested for nonviolent crime, no criminal record whatsoever, handcuffing them is not respectful and it really makes a resentment toward the police when he did that. thank you. that has been a conversation piece since i has been in the department since 1987. what you have to realize is that when a person is arrested, even for a minor offense, we do not know who we are dealing with. initially, we don't know if they have a criminal history, so whether they facing of that individual and the safety of the officers, it is a dramatic experience when you get arrested and you don't know how they will react, so i think handcuffing is the appropriate method we have to take. host: are there different

techniques to handcuffing? is it just standard arms behind the back? policefour richmond department, standard behind the back securing of the individual. host: that is part of the training that goes on from the video on the screen from officers in richmond getting training on handcuffing. usef alfred durham joining on community policing and relationship with police. in mobile,from david alabama. good morning. you are next. caller: hello, can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: my name is david. i have a story for you. i filed 12 complaints with the justice department on it. this happened when you're go in alabama. i was living with a woman by the name of connie smith and she was in a divorce court with her ex-husband. there was a department of agents

for the justice department, he and ine for quite a while got a knock on my door at 1:00 in the afternoon after i got off work. i had to justice department agents, three police officers at our front door. the police officers, one standing next to the justice department agent, had an fbi jacket on. shouldn't the fighters up as an fbi agent and she was not. the other woman at the door identified herself as an atf agent, she was not. she was a federal police officer. atre was a police officer the right side of the door in uniform. i am standing at the door in my underwear. i am amazed at what is going on. me and connie have never been arrested, never committed a crime in our entire lives, we have never been involved in criminal activity. they told me that i am america's

most wanted and that i had just committed murder. i asked them, do you have any proof of this whatsoever? no picture,warrant, nothing but a big made up the story. the two agents, the fbi agent -- i mean the justice department disguised as one an fbi agent push me out of the way, ran into the house upstairs , accosted connie and stuck a gun to her and brought her downstairs. host: david, what would you like our guest to address? what is the general topic you want them to address? caller: i'm going to get to it. host: we've got to move on only because he went to get more calls in, so why don't we leave the call there. chief, is there anything to take away from that person story? does it relate to anything you have heard in the department? guest: no, not here in my department. host: your department does have a program that we found that when we paid a visit not too

long ago but you invite citizens to take the role of a police officer and get their perspective on what they do day-to-day to day, especially in a situation that we show a video of. we'll come back to get your perspective on it. >> get off! [gunshots] >> he came at me. >> all right. was sent off round , the second round, third-round, fourth-round. let me tell you something. >> i did not realize i shot him four times. >> say that again for me. >> i did not realize i shot him four times. >> you get so caught up with what happens when internal affairs shows up and asked you what happened? and you say i don't know, you

are being honest and that is very frequent to happen. let's take it one step further. let's take an additional step. front pagehis is the of the times, what does the headline of that article say? >> officer shot man four times. >> no. try again. officer shoots unarmed man four times. for what he was going to do to harm rice, white -- hamas, right? >> and he was drunk. >> and is probably drunk but he still did not have a gun in his hand. host: that is one person playing the role of officer, shooting a person four times. what do you learn from those who assume that role, especially once they go through the shooting process? guest: i have to tell you,

pedro, that program has been a hit. just going down the community and folks being inquisitive of why we have to shoot individuals with a gun. why can't you just shoot them in the leg, or fire a warning shot and i thought about it. our officers go through this training twice a year. why not bring the community in? i tell you, everyone who went through that scenario training, they have come out and said, i have a whole different perspective on what the police officers have to do and i am going to continue that they could this -- because it is important and we understand. one of the things i'm looking to do is to purchase a portable system so we can take it out to the communities. i believe in taking the show on the road and that way when they see the police shooting, not only here and hopefully never again care, but someone else can say no, no. this is what they go through and i think it is imported. that communication piece goes trust and support and that is how you build trust, communication and participation.

host: how often do people come through to take the test? what types of people come through to take the experience? guest: we started off with the leaders,e faith-based our citizens academy. one thing that was interesting was the mayor's youth academy and members of the mayor's youth academy came in. nine high school students. when they went through that, every one of them had a profound response saying, i did not know. you know what? shotone of those students the bad guy. a split second decision. it's not easy to say, why did you not shoot them in the leg? everything we do is reactionary. host: tony is from missouri. go ahead. caller: good morning. i worked dia 16 years and that she was talking about use of individual that has never been in the use of force before. they do not know what goes on

and i will just take anything you say for us off the air. two. -- thank you. host: caller? i think we lost them. we will go on to frederick in virginia. caller: how are you doing? good morning. i'm going to say that i am african in this country and i have experienced a lot of bad policing in this country. trust me, for civilized country for the united states, most of the police officers don't care. they will kill you. you are black, young, they will kill you. i'm going to tell this story. i can because any time to come to work, and you are talking about use of force. a policeaying that

officer sometimes cannot use their judgment. and cannot use my judgment use that for my client, i will kill the person. ok, if you are a police officer -- [indiscernible] host: three will lead it there. chief, go ahead. to say thatt want use of force is a touchy subject. the last time we had the use of force that resulted in the debt heart to last tuesday -- on site, may 4, was in 2010. i do not believe my officers in the city of richmond are trigger-happy. we do not come to work every day, my officers did not report to duty to go out and shoot someone and kill someone. they stop perception, though, when you come in our police headquarters, there is a quote from arlo third -- from martin junior.ing

the ramifications of north charleston and i believe it is unfair and that is why it is so important to say that we will not have those incidents here because we continuously engage the community. host: how often do talk with washington, the white house, the justice department about events of policing? i know a task force was convened about community policing and they put out a report. did you have input or what you see from washington on these issues? guest: i did not have an input that i am part of international chief of police and we are always going down because these are imported. these are chiefs from across the country experiencing the same thing right now, but i have to commend president barack obama income made -- and creating that task force because it opened our eyes and there are six colors that came out of their. my command staff every monday starts to review those and implement them and have

conversation about what we need policing.hange interestingly enough, out of those six pillars that came out of the recommendation of that task force, richmond was already doing six of them, so we are doing something right and i'm proud to say that we get it and i think the president for creating that task force to get that information out and have citizen involvement in that. host: here is thomas from texas. thank you for holding on. you are on. caller: hi, how are you guys doing? my grandson is sheriff -- can you hear me? host: that, you are on. caller: what do you think of mass shootings and automatic weapons all over the place? we have 30,000 people die a year from handguns. don't you think the union could help your cops out like getting some of the weapons off the street and the citizens? thank you. last week in washington,

d.c., they convened a meeting on all the gun violence and the increase of violence across the nation and you are absolutely right, sir. there is an increase in use of firearms and capacity magazines were covered with weapons. thankfully in richmond, we are not seeing that. we are recovering a large number of weapons but not associated with violence. a decreaseriencing in violent crime, down 13% in five and crime. the main crime issues i have for are motor vehicles. i will take that any day over someone being victimized. it is better for us to say that we will take that property crime hit, but the violent crime is up across the nation and for once, we are down so we are fortunate here. host: newport, vermont. john, good morning. caller: good morning, pedro and

chief alfred durham. i live in a predominately white state of vermont and in my two years, i am in my 60's, might experienced two years have been very negative with the police. i have had a gun put up to my head, i am not the wimpy looking guy, so the assumption is whatever it is. many of these police officers are steroided and some are obviously on drugs themselves am a lawfulinion, i student in vermont. if you do your research, you will find that. i am appalled at how many young blacks i see the police have me to behat appears to completely unlawful circumstance. they have all these rules, there are several police in most cases

responding. shotgunsd use short with teflon beanbags, whatever they need. they can knock them down with rubber bullets, with whatever. they've got mace, every kind of compassion has to be an essential ingredient in the recruit of police officers. if you cannot determine if a recruit has any compassion, then they should be excluded from consideration and a lot of the servicemen.s are they have ptsd, whether they declared themselves are not. moey are young, full of machis m and this is what i have come up against the many years of where

i live. negative experiences of police officer's. host: thank you, john. guest: john, i hear you. especially when you just talked about one of the things -- i spent 25 years in the washington police department and we had officers were part of the military reserves and they were deployed overseas to spend a lot of time in afghanistan and they come back here. even here in my department, i also have men deployed overseas right now and when they come back, they have to integrate back into our society, meaning the richmond police department. again, i don't think that i have done a good job or my due diligence to look at that and that is something i have to look at. you bring a good point and this aren issue and i'm glad we having this conversation, the nation is having this conversation about law enforcement and how we are there to disconnect -- there to connect with the american

community. i think this is just the tip of the iceberg. i refuse to continue to see, aress the country, why the still having these types of misconducts and uses of forces by law enforcement officers in unjustifiable killings of black men. host: chief alfred durham of the richmond police department. what is the makeup of your force? had you gauge that, especially amongst the community you serve in? have about 32% african-americans. 62% caucasian, 3% latino and about 1% of their, asian and other. in richmond is about 50% african-american. one of the rings we are doing is the al qaeda burst police department. -- doing is to have a diverse police department. are minority in my

police department. you have to have the racial makeup of the community you serve. it's important. host: what kind of package you offer them in terms of salary and benefits? guest: that was a sticking point here. a pay raise last month. it is a tough job. commiserated in law enforcement. we do not take this job to become rich, but you look at the duties and responsibilities and everything that we rest upon our officers from social workers to health care providers and just having conversations and lotseling folks, there is a involved and we had that face a community government 24/7. host: one statistic tells us that it is about 60,000 a year, is that what about their making the richmond? guest: not at all. starting salary here is about

$31,500. host: and that goes up with experience in time? guest: yes, we have a development program. there are five steps that that poor compensation and then you have a step, depending on time of service, the program. host: mark is from california. mark, you are on. chief, i was listening to sit up there and i don't think law enforcement is really getting what is going on with black lives matter and people protesting out on the streets. changing outally in the streets. i really think the problem is of leadership and training. you have all these guys coming back from afghanistan that were in iraq and you put them out on the street. we have a problem with

militarization of you guys. it is becoming -- it has become an us and them situation. you are saying that you have community policing going on, but i can see that you got to ease into this because you cannot have law enforcement officers walking up to people's houses in the neighborhood because they will be scared of you. people are really scared of you guys. i don't think you understand that. you don't treat people with and youmost of the time want people -- like with sandra her to- officer expected kiss his butt and she was not going to do that. she was ready to go. and she ended up going into jail because she did not kiss that officer's butt. i would really like to see them

modify training with the officers these days and with the leadership. there's got to be a zero-tolerance policy. is busted forr racially or any kind of racial problems or bigotry, you've got to get rid of those officers right away. you can't just make them go to another department. host: we will of the chief respond, mark. go ahead. guest: mark, you are absolutely right. this is the reality we are facing today. i can't speak for any rows, i am the leader of the richmond police department. we do not have those issues there, so i cannot speak or what is going on in other jurisdictions of what you experience where you live. of last i can november year to february of this year,

you talk about black lives matter -- there were about five unpermitted protests. we allowed those students, participants to exercise their first amendment right. we told them to get up and we worked with them. there was not one arrest or encounter. what was the most amazing ever found for me, a protester came over to my officers and should there hands and said thank you. again, i am thinking we are doing the right in, building relationships. i cannot speak for anyone else but i like to think that my leadership team here, we keep our finger on what is happening across the nation and that's important today. host: gary is from lancaster, pennsylvania. a former police officer. gary, go ahead. caller: yes, i just wanted to that god is not sleeping or dead and the police officers

really do have problems with a lot of issues still. they have to learn to respect the other people, too. they try to make them bow down to them all the time because that is just the way it is. host: that is gary from pennsylvania. chief, how to police officers get trained as far as dealing with stress, and she's been encounter on the job? who do they turn to at the richmond pd? it is you know, interesting. we have critical training here and it -- we train our officers on how to deal with mental health but we are also learning how to deal with stress and those issues. series of programs with medical health professionals who come in and we talk about the stresses of the job. we have programs here for our mebers but most important talking about leadership and supervision. it is important for my first line of supervisors. monitor their personnel,

that is a critical piece, too. if you see something out of the norm or their officers are not doing or not themselves, they need to immediately take action and that is important. host: what kind of information does an officer have to do at the end of shift if there are incidents or not, particularly if there is some kind of in -- incident, what kind of information does an officer have to provide to a supervisor? guest: anytime there is a use of force incident, we have reports, mandates and policies and the reports are to be completed. this supervisor would be immediately notified. there is accountability here. documentation is imported. again, you are talking about reports. when i was talking to the community, there were some complaints about interactions with our officers. one of the things -- did you file a complaint? no, you won't do anything anyway . well, you can't hold me accountable for something i do not know or my police officers if you do not let me know they

are doing something wrong. so now we are seeing complaints coming against officers. 30% increase in complaints and that is a good thing because i want to know if my officers and not performing their duty to uphold and that is important for me. host: what have you learned in the six months that you have been chief, especially coming from washington, d.c.? i learned that i have inherited a jewel of the department and community here in richmond. i like to think that i am coming in and making changes but we are tweaking things the way we do. you talk about culture, just changing some things to say, hey, maybe we can do it better this way? i believe in inclusiveness. not only the men and women in my department but the community and the relationships. when there is a violent crime as a community, we go out as a group, police, community members, our faith leaders, and we engage and find out what were

the problems and what are the needs because of this critical incident? i have inherited a jewel of a department and i cannot ask for more. most of the time when nu chief comes in is because a cheap is retiring, an issue with crime in the community, especially when you are coming from a union environment, sometimes there is a vote of no-confidence and whether there is a situation with the mayor, city council, city manager -- that was not me. i just came in to replace the retiring chief so i'm keeping the ship afloat. host: alfred durham the chief of the richmond police department joining us today. thank you for your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: we will continue on in our program. next up, we will be joined by captain harvey powers of the regiment police department and in charge of training the cadets that you heard the chief reference. we will talk about that training the cadet goes through to become -- before becoming an officer. later on, the mayor of richmond, gleick jones, on his

perspective, especially when it comes to law enforcement. both join us later in the program. we did visit the richmond police department and spent the day at the training facility. during that time, we talked to the now patterson, a rich and police training officer. one of the things we talked about was how physically demanding cadet training is. toit is extremely physically mandate. starting on day one, you are taken through different phases. we start in the green phase which is breakdown phase. we are taking a civilian and we want to break down a civilian with thinking of the me, me, me i i,.e i, when it comes down to it, we are servants of the city. we are service of people who may not like us. we are service of people who may hate us. who we need to be physically prepared to deal with a fighter, a runner, physically prepared to

deal with somebody that might hate us. that is something hard to deal with fundamental level. we take them through different tests where itpt incorporates push-ups, situps, how flexible you are. , we runll climbs stairs, we do dummy drives, we carry each other and it assimilates. my partner was just fatally wounded and i need to get him from point a to point b, so as far as how physically taxing it is, extremely physically taxing. host: we will continue on with that program taking a look at community relations. captain harvey powers of the richmond police department will join us momentarily. if you go to the new issue of "time" magazine, there are

statistics when it comes to police officers and gives a breakdown of who they are. 21% have a high school diploma or less, 36% have a bachelors degree or higher and 44% have completed some type of training. their median age is 40 years old and 12% of those police officers 13%women, 2% asian, hispanic, 16% black, 80% are white. we talked about the average salary, $60,000. it can be as low as $32,000 in mississippi and as high as $88,000 in new jersey. powers enjoins us, a few more phone calls on the topic of relations between community and police. james, you said you had experience with police. tell us about your experience. you are on. yes, when the police ask you and they don't ask you where you are going and what you are

coming from? it's oftenl them misses, you should not have to tell them. host: that's james and alabama. as promised, captain harvey powers joining us. good morning. guest: good morning. good to talk to you. host: how do you describe your job to other people? guest: i say if you think about the police the -- academy adds a school, i am sort of the principal. i am making sure that we meet all of the department of criminal justice services mandates for training new police officers and for the continued training of our current police officers. host: how many cadets do you train at one moment? guest: that buried here to your based on the vacancy rate we have in the police department and the needs of the department. we can do proximally 30 person recruit classes. sometimes, as one ends, we start

another recruit class. sometimes we even overlap those classes depending on the vacancies we are seeing in the city of richmond police department. host: who makes an ideal cadet in your opinion? represent the to broad diversity that is our city that we serve, so we want to make sure we have officers that are technically proficient in some of the skill sets that are critical to all law enforcement like emergency vehicle operations, defensive tactics, firearms qualification, but we also want to have a member of our community who represents that broader community and can speak to the different needs and the different subcommunities in the city. host: during the process of trading to be a cadet, how long is it and give us an overview of what the cadet will learn in that time. a 31 weekin, it is long process that we have. during that process, like i said, we talk about technical

proficiency. you are seen video of defensive tactics training, but we are also talking about uses of firearms. uses of emergency vehicle operation, pursuit operation, constitutional law is critical. we also talk about but they're sort of nonspecific trainings. i think he showed earlier some classroom stuff. that was sergeant shane at one of our lead cit instructors. crisis intervention training. it helps officers deal with people who may be in mental health crisis and understand the perspective of what they are going through specifically. we also recently instituted a department wide training on partial policing. our conscious and bias has on decisions we make us police officers and how to override those unconscious biases when it is possible. host: captain powers, talk about the events of ferguson and baltimore. how does that come into the classroom and how does that change the way you turn cadets? well, we are just the

richmond police department, but we are part of a broader national law enforcement that is with 24 hour news and everything that is on television and internet now. of theppens in one part country impacts the entire country. what happens at one law enforcement. as we see these -- what happens at one law enforcement affects all law enforcement. how to improve our response and improve what we are doing performance wise and change training for current and future officers as we need to. host: give an example. --st: an example specifically the fair and partial policing part of that. bias is wrong,er over at racism or sexism or any of these other things is wrong, but dealing with the unconscious

decisions that are made without the officer making them, realizing how they were making just to gett is them to rethink their interaction and produced that legitimacy within our community, so that our community deals likely deserve to deliver law enforcement services to them. host: how do you change that mentality in a split second situation? split second it's -- situations are very difficult. you saw some good deal earlier of the milo training which is the use of force simulator that we use. we use that for officers and citizens now. we want officers to get from to be looked to go through a scenario and then step back and see those scenarios in smaller snippets, breakdown what may have been a total of 30 seconds into five second segments and see how we were making those decisions. it is part of the contact area that we also at the community to know how we are making those

decisions as cheap to have mentioned, -- as chief durha mentioned, completely them -- apparent to them. talk about use of force, how do you train a cadet on how to use force? guest: it is like anything we talk about. you have to crawl, walk and then run. we start with role-playing scenarios and nonthreatening environments. we will use video simulation as he talked about with the milo system and then we take it to the next level where we vote use ammunition rounds -- where we will use ammunition rounds and a look of it like a paintball round. types of different incremental approaches to training, and just because we give an officer a firearm and put him in a mask is not mean that he is going to need to use

that ammunition firearm, but it certainly gives it the reality that we really need to impress upon these new officers as they are facing what the future may hold in a career in law enforcement. host: police training and the use of force, our topics with captain harvey powers with the richmond police department, he is the training academy director. (202)-784-8000 for those of you experience of police. (202)-784-8001 for police officers. all others, (202)-748-8002. those in rich and, virginia, (202)-748-8003. first call is from stacy in brooklyn, new york. she is a correctional officer. you are on with captain harvey powers. caller: hi, captain powers. hi, pedro. i am from the new york city department of correction. captain powers is 100 correct

percent -- 100% correct in his assessment. the one thing left unsaid is that we all bring social biases with this to our jobs. that is one thing that cannot be trained out that we have to start from the time that we are younger children to learn that all black people are not criminals, to learn that all latinos are not necessarily illegal immigrants, and i do not think that any officer gets up and goes to work in the morning and says, i'm going to kill a black man today, but those cultural biases have important -- they play important roles in that split second decision on what will happen. other, sees someone as his decision might be swayed by that. when he sees someone who looks like him, you may make a different decision and i have seen that in work and in law enforcement over the years and i have seen it in interactions with police in the street. i think it goes back to the history of our country and why

police department square started . in the south, with my experience and i'm not that cold, i am retired but i can remember this out and seeing police officers do inappropriate things toward african-americans and latinos. were ince in the south arms with the government and the government was a segregationist government, so my parents and my grandparents may not have the same opinions of the police that lyts a captain powers' fami may have. in the north, police were used to control for white people, so again, that community may not have the same spec for the police because they have only been disrespected by the police. thank you for your comments and perspective. we will let captain powers respond. appreciate that cap -- that comment, captain. yes, we really strive to make sure that the vices, the unconscious biases that law

enforcement officers bring to the table every day are expressed and dealt with. there are two real ways of doing that. first of all, simply bringing to the front the acknowledgment that everybody, black, white, male, female, tall, short, everybody carries the spices with them. and secondly, after acknowledging that we have those biases, we work with the contact. that the more interaction we have the people that are different than us, the more likely we are to dispel those biases. i return police officers, you have heard the chief talk earlier about badges for baseball. this afternoon, i will be doing shop with a cop, a bunch of city youth commission police officers where we build relationships and dispel some of those biases. the police athletic league and christmas gift giveaways, and delivery thanksgiving turkeys and these sorts of things. we develop contacts within the

community and it dispels biases we have of others and it dispels the biases that others may have of us. host: mobile, alabama. carnell is next. caller: good morning. my comment is the fact that over the last 12 years, 13 years, we peopled a lot of young go off to war, go to the middle east and they will basically train to fight in these urban or these cities in the middle east, so what you are saying are a lot of these young people over the last 12 years, 13 years could come back, they have gone to the police force and it is like they are still fighting in iraq or afghanistan. they treat the public like someone coming from behind the building and they just start shooting. the other point i wanted to make was i worked in city county

state government in human resource management for nearly 20 years. i helped higher police officers and law enforcement people and merit system a test or examination to get hired, they always get the military people, and this goes back a long way back, they always give them extra points on their test scores. so if a regular citizen scored thend a veteran scores 80, veteran automatically gets an 85, so the veteran is put in front of the regular citizen. the other thing i wanted to ask you, captain, and i know he is in training primarily, our police officers tested for drugs and for steroids on a continuous basis? the things i see on television, and i am 63-year-old and basically retired, so i watch tv, and i'm watching the news and you see these police officers who have their heads

shaved and when they go into action, it is like you're on steroids or something. host: thank you. i really appreciate those questions. go ahead, captain powers. guest: i will be with the drug question first. officersond police face random drug testing and if there is any cause to believe that there is something illegal going on, then we can call for drug testing with them. we produce a page in random drug screening and those things should be cap. ,ou spoke about the military former military members becoming richmond police officers and a strongham has made point changing slightly the mindset of richmond police officers. something we try to reflect in training and that is to go from a warrior mentality to a guardian mentality. we have to be guardians of the community we serve. we cannot go out the door as warriors, fighting crime. we have to be guardians of the

community we serve and that is really critical, a subtle difference, but the critical difference we have to embrace. it everything we do in training and in-service and in use of force training and beyond, we are trying to embrace that guardian mentality. the chief is implemented a plan that we have the police recruits much more involved in the community. we are walking in public housing communities, within the latino communities and doing events there. there -- we are working with the homeless community and these sorts of things so that richmond police officers can see themselves as guardians of their community, not as warriors. a resistance to change that mentality from warrior to guardian? guest: i don't see it as a resistance to it. i think police officers and i think people in general are not very quick to embrace all changes, but i think the benefit that officers see of changing

from a warrior mentality to a guardian mentality is readily apparent. engagemmunity want to the police department to be part of our team, we do not just gain witnesses, we didn't community members who believe they are a legitimate law enforcement agency. a take that into account when they serve on juries, and they hear the testimony of the police officer so to embrace that change, that is the critical fight and the critical thing we must accomplish to make sure they see themselves as guardians. host: what do you think of the perception of richmond police officers in the community? we heard the chief talk about how you go on walking tours of the community. what do you think the general perception is now of officers in richmond? guest: i have been with the department 22 years. when i came out of the police academy, we had 160 homicides in than 200,000h less people in the population.

you heard the chief talking earlier about how we are not over 200,000 people and last year we had 42 homicides. clearly, the community engagement that the chief is spearheading is working?, all caps -- working. we continue to grow and look for ways to improve. we look to each different parts of the community that may question our legitimacy, but we have come along way in the 22 years i have been here and i look forward to the next steps we make to grow even better. host: from salisbury, north carolina. here is l.c. you are on. caller: yes, captain, i'm going to show the difference. roof was arrested for killing nine people, he was handled like he was a kid. in texas, this 12-year-old girl was slammed to the ground like she was a common criminal. this is the perception. this is what you see. person that has been

accused of killing nine people just -- was handled like he was an ordinary citizen. of the car andt shepherd and put in the cart really nice, but this 12-year-old girl, frightened, the police slammer to the ground like she was a dog. this is what is wrong. i am 70 years old. calle never had a need to the police. my wife did it one time on drug dealers and the police told the drug dealers the call the police. i had no need to call them. i drove a truck for 21 years and i have been all over the country and canada. the police officers in this country need to go to canada and be trained. those officers are totally different and everybody says guns, well, they have more guns in canada and we do per population. host: thank you. definitely hear and

understand what he is saying and i think when he is talking about really, if i can summarize, is a perception issue. i certainly was not present at the apprehension of mr. roof, and i certainly do not know the ins and outs of interaction that happened with when he was talking about in texas, but the perception of what is going on is the reality in law enforcement these days. we need to fight just as diligently to be that guardian and have that guardian mentality and have that be the perception and the reality. about as his comments training in canada, i think the richmond police department does a fantastic job making sure it's officers and men and women are phenomenally trained. host: when it comes to the training, what type of nonlethal weapon training to officers receive? guest: we have different training.

or, we referred to as a mace or pepper spray, we carry that. we have the expandable baton also known as the asp. we also have some officers who are taser certified. the number we have at the department is growing. we continue to purchase more of those. one of the chiefs big pushes his to make sure that those nonlethal technologies that are available and we bring them to their. one of our specialized units have additional technology at their disposal. host: here is terry from louisiana. go ahead. caller: good morning to everyone in the united states. i went to a crime watch meeting telling why they should end the drug war. a policeman comes over there and threatens me with arrest for telling these troops. one of them was a state parole officer who called me every year tellingry -- they were

them that you get much better drug deals from the guards in prison. there were no murderous out called gangs until they pass that law. there were no murderous drug gangs until they pass the drug laws. --y were killed the alcohol they repealed the alcohol laws after they passed it and it broke up all the murderous out called gangs, so does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what should be done about the drug laws. you appeal those drug laws, and you will cut the murder rate and the crime rate in half or more because the murdering crime rate doubled when they passed the prohibition of alcohol. host: captain powers, go ahead. guest: i understand what you are saying, i do not know about policy and law changes about the legalization of drugs. i do know that we work diligently and without any substantial changes in the drug

law in richmond in 20 years, we brought the murder rate down from 160 to 42, so it is not just laws that can impact those crime rates. i think the biggest difference in 22 years ago and now is simply to community that is willing to work with us and engage us and be part of the problem solving that we really need to make change happen. host: you talk about perception, captain powers, is there more aggression coming from members of the community toward the police in your opinion? guest: i don't know specifically that it has changed or increased decreased. there has always been a certain element of that with law enforcement and that probably always will be on some level, but that is such a small percentage of the community that we serve at once to harm us or do us or make a problem. they all want a safe environment to live and to grow businesses and to raise children. it is our job to partner with them and make that the reality.

while there will always probably be a very small minority of people that wish to do us harm or wish to be harmful to the community, we can do our part by partnering with the community and deliver the kind of safe community that they really want. host: if you live in richmond and want to talk to our guest, (202)-748-8003. lois is from richmond, virginia. caller: good morning. good morning, captain powers. guest: good morning. caller: how are you? guest: i am very well. thank you. that ini wanted to say richmond, one of the things i did not agree with [indiscernible] afraid ofity is still police. they still have the concerns. [indiscernible]

what is changing the one on one relationship built with the police department? we have built a one-on-one relationship where i trust him, so if people want to turn themselves in or turn in a gun, because i built a relationship and the police chief of .unro and he was in richmond it's got to begin with a one-on-one relationship that will build the trust and change the perception. whenst had a shooting officer killed a resident of richmond and the community was very upset. i received a call from captain they worked on the simulated to see what happened. i do not agree with everything

that is going on in richmond, with the police, or the community. i have not built a relationship with the chief. i tried couple of times but he is super busy. i know the police as an officer jackson who comes to our christian private school and he went to patty whacking and show teenagers and answered questions from teenagers in the community about it. that is what makes a change. you've got to do the one-on-one relationship building with trust and perception changing. thank you. i promise i did not put her up to call. that is pastor lois, she is the minister over in south richmond with whom i have worked several years. it is all about those relationships. we to make those relationships.

we have to make those relationships based on honesty and knowing each other and working together for the common good. she has done a lot of great work over in south richmond. she is one of many partnerships that exist within the city of richmond about making this place better. when we had the officer involved shooting, i reached out to her. i said i really want young people to experience this simulator. to walk a mile in our shoes and understand the difficult decision-making process. host: our cadets trained to complete incident reports and are they considered legal affidavits subject to perjury charges? cover report writing. documents.gal there are consequences if they are inappropriately filed.

so yes. host: from georgia. this is bruce. hey.r: all the cops i have seen lately have done a lot better than they used to do. one guy called and said he was from atlanta. i'm from atlanta. he said he didn't see any black cops. i did. i don't know what part of atlanta he was from. i'm glad you all are doing a lot better. from michigan. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank youke to say very much for doing your job. you couldn't pay me enough to do

your job. i would also like to say that i have had experience with police. when i was 17 i got caught shoplifting. a pair of earrings at the local walmart. i didn't tell my parents. didn't run and get a lawyer. went down to the courthouse. showed up and told the judge i did it and i was sorry and won't do it again. got my six months probation. and every week i had to report to a lady's house in my neighborhood. knewl the kids probably why was going there every week until my six months was up. but i didn't care. foundly reason my parents out was because a letter got sent to my home stating that i had completed my perl and stuff -- probation.

it's called personal responsibility. run, if you don't fight, if you don't spit at them, if you don't try and run away, if you don't try and fight with people, they're not going to abuse you. and that's my thing. i believe in personal responsibility. and i'm going to be 60. i've had police pull me over. i don't give them a problem. goodbye. very much and guest: i appreciate your comments. it is so important to make sure we are clear to the community with what we need and our expectations when they have those interactions with police officers. whether it is traffic stops or a nonviolent offense. so critical for us to

deliver that training to the community on our expectations and our needs so that we can be safe and we can go home to our loved ones and you can be safe. i have a family that i want to go home to every night. every officer in this country has a family that's important to them. they do a difficult and sometimes dangerous job. there are small things the community can do to help us help them and make those interactions as simple as possible. host: what about the community members who videotaped interaction between police? how does that change your job? guest: i don't know that it has changed either. have seen some provocative things done with videotaping of police officers. as long as you are not interfering with the police officer and you are standing at a distance and videotaping, i kind of applaud it. i think it is a great thing to

have as many perspectives as possible on what is going on in our community. our mayor has spearheaded an effort to get body cameras to officers on the street. i think having that record and accountability is important to the citizens we serve. i think we have stressed with police recruits that they may be videotaped. i certainly have been videotaped a number of times. i'm doing my job properly and following the laws and the roles of by department. it star problem. what would you want the public to know about how someone should behave if they are being stopped or questioned? of a sick things are very important. you probably are a great person, a nice person who has committed no serious offense. but i don't know that when i walk up to address you.

issue or ahave an perception and i'm trying to work through, trying to figure out how much of a threat you pose to me. i think a lot of people operate under the assumption that i should automatically know what kind of person you are if you mean to do me harm or not. police officers don't have the precognition to know that. that on interactions, whether it is a traffic stop or interactions in the community, keeping your hands plainly visible is 95% of what you need to do. keep them on the steering wheel at a traffic stop. keep them in front of you. you don't have to put them up in the air, just keep them where i can see them. those hands are going to pose the most lethal threat to a police officer. visible and the police officer has no need to worry that you are doing him any harm.

just keep your hands where we can see them. from arizona, aaron is up next. caller: hello. i have to say i have a bit of a different interaction with law enforcement. in the fire service and emergency medical services as a paramedic for over 32 years. the law enforcement sheriff and city police on a regular basis. we work together. we have their back and we know they have hours especially in critical situation. thing that iiggest have seen of people on these honestyat we go on his

and respect. honesty and respect. it is a two-way street. if you want respect you are going to have to give respect. ss theset need to cu officers out. anything you can do to better yourself -- honesty is the biggest thing. , even want to get into take the civilian police academy, i recommend doing that. it is a real eye-opener. caller hadevious said, my experiences the few times that i have been pulled over, i have a concealed carry permit. so whenever the traffic stop happens i obviously pull over as far as i can. i rolled down all my windows and turn the interior light on and put my hands on the steering view.in plain

you address the officer appropriately. good afternoon, good morning officer. i let them know i have a firearm either on me or in my vehicle. that is really going to deescalate things right there. and then oh by the way, i have a gun on my hip, that changes things. too many of these people are doing the armchair quarterback of, i saw this episode of insert your favorite cop show here. they like to crack skulls. that is not how it really is. it takes a lot to provoke a law enforcement officer to have to go hands-on or act. utmost respect. love cops. we get along great and below is have their back -- we will always have their back.

guest: if you had told me i was going to get a phone call from a firefighter, i would have been worried. but now i am much better off. we both have a tough job to do. it is greatly improved and far ass dramatic when we have simple level of cooperation and communication. that responsibility is a two-way street. we need to have police officers communicating to the community and the people there interacting with. drama during the interaction. host: we have a question from twitter saying when with the officer like us to find our insurance and registration? guest: we have seen that from a lot of community members. i wish there was a cut and dry answer for that. if you don't have it already in your hand as the police officer a simpleg up,

conversation with that police officer is the most helpful. that is simply looking over and saying, my wallet has my drivers license and it is in my left rear pocket. my registration and insurance information is in the glove box. what would you like me to do? would you like me to reach over and grab it? would you like to go over and get it for me? that is the most helpful way to interact with a police officer. give us the rundown on, what would you like us to do? seethen the officer can your communicating effectively with me and we will give you that respect back. host: joe from washington. caller: good morning. respect for your job and what you do. i am a citizen, too. and i depend on your work to keep us safe me and my family.

a couple of previous callers were giving their experiences. i have no problem with their experience but they have to remember what you said earlier. a couple of other comments were made about the sensitivity that cultural bias. it exists and we know it. i am an african american male and i have experienced some situations that have been -- could have gotten out of hand but thank god they didn't. approached i a caucasian officer and you are a black man, it is automatically antennas up. that is not to say there is going to be violent or anything. i watched some of the episodes the victims that have been killed by the hands of cops. there was a few that were not justified. they have not been justified to

my understanding. is blindustice sometimes. hopefully in the future people like you and the other chiefs who are working to build sensitivities and fill those communication gaps, that is what it is going to take. it is easier to treat people who look like you better. and you feel more safe and comfortable in their presence than people who don't look like you. especially after the media hypes up the reputation and stereotypes of certain cultures. it is a battle. it is a challenge to all of us as a community and as citizens. we need you guys. i appreciate you. it is a responsibility that you have to take upon yourself to know that this is a human being. he is god's child, too. and god loves all of us. have a great one.

the unconscious biases that all human beings face impact our decision-making and police officers are no different. we are men and women who have chosen a helping profession. we have chosen it freely knowing we want to serve our community. we don't do it with something in the back of our mind that says that we want these biases to help us make bad decisions. we want to make the good decisions to help our community prosper. the critical thing is to deprogram things that the media may have programmed, personal experiences may have programmed why developing those relationships with people in the community. whether they look like us or not. whether they're are from the same background we are from or not. we want to make richmond the best place can be. host: james from georgia. caller: i want to commend both

of you guys. comment. when i wasce chief, in atlanta there was a captain who was a patrol officer. his name is chief griffin. he did a wonderful job in the community. he went to schools. he was security at the basketball game. people knew him. andxperience with griffin all of the police chiefs that need to be like griffin. he did a wonderful job. you have a stressful job to do and i just want to commend that. my second problem is when you say it starts from home. when you taught bigotry from home and you raised up and you want to be authority so use the police officer to be authority, they have to be scrutinized. they already have a problem.

you hired them in the military to do a job. the citizens they go back and they see a black man, and i'm not targeting all white officers, when they grow up in a society and they look at a they seem toor, have a problem. i could go on and on with the problem. i won't sugarcoat. blacks are being mistreated and that it's to stop. -- that needs to stop. how toed to be taught treat ordinary people, black people and be a little more polite to them. nodge don't make you know better. he talked about a great

relationship he had with a police officer in his community. and this is what we need from our police recruits. we need recruits that can engage. you don't have to be best friends with 200,000 people. but you can develop relationships with a few key members of your sector and your precinct and your area and develop those kinds of relationships where it becomes a two-way flow of information. information on safety and you can provide information to us on crime and what is important in your community. the days of police departments going into the community and telling them what their problem is i think has passed. we are now at a point where we are going to the community and the community is helping us determine what our priorities should be. where we should be attacking crime. what the most important thing that they want addressed is.

sometimes it's not even crime. to beome that focal point the guardians of the community, not the warriors. host: captain harvey powers is the director of the training academy in the richmond leased department -- police department. inc. you for your time. -- thank you for your time. we will be joined by dwight jones, the mayor of richmond. we'll continue to take your calls. the lines will be on the screen. we will start with lila. her sister is a police officer. caller: good morning. on.sh the captain was still my sister is an officer in d.c. a lot of the comments earlier in the program puts this premise

forth as if all police officers are levelheaded good minded individuals. a lot of what goes on like the gentle than before me said also starts at home. ,hen they go into the training the division of races can even be seen in the training class. when my sister was in class with class was very segregated by race even during the police academy. and then it just perpetuates itself. i have never had terrible with the police. i was raised in montgomery county right outside of d.c. and i have been fine. but i have had many friends. i talk it to come out of the juvenile justice system where it is absolutely horrid and a scary to think about the interactions that they have with the police. and i think that when the police officers and representatives put things through like one of the callers said earlier, oh just be respectful. that is like telling a lady going down the street, oh just walk down the street and if someone is a rapist and there is

an opportunity they won't rape you. know if someone has a bad heart and bad intentions it doesn't matter how respectful you are. where does your sister serve? d.c.r: in washington, she has been there for five years. her experience has been mixed. even with all of the police see the division of opinion in the force based on race. and it is not always black on white as far as the aggression. some of the aggression is just aggression because they have power and they have a gun. or individuals that are coming to serve in washington, d.c. that don't understand the culture or vernacular of the urban students or young people could sayea, someone something and they pull a gun because they think it is a threat. whereas there is a language or cultural barrier.

and someone is saying they would have run down the street and the police officer will interpret slang they are using as if they're going to shoot them and so a gun is pulled. there needs to be a higher level of sensitivity across the board. and an honest acknowledgment that some police officers are not good. the majority of them are. but there are many of them who are just not good people and when given power and given a people, especially those of color, are put at risk. host: that is lila from washington, d.c.. our program has been devoted today to the topic of policing and community relations. we heard from the captain of training and chief of police in richmond, virginia. joining us now is dwight jones, the mayor of that city. thanks for joining us. guest: good morning. host: when it comes to the topic

of policing, what do you think has to happen? not only in your own city, but nationwide? guest: i think there has to be a connectivity between the policing community and the community at large. i think there has to be the ability for the police force and the community to have a relationship with each other and i think that our success relates to our emphasis on community policing. host: as far as the idea, what has been the message to your police chief? what do you want to see happen? be visible.t him to i want him to be in the community. our police chief has done that. he is very recognized. he is a force to be reckoned with in our town. the people in our community have responded to our policeman

walking in the community, going into all neighborhoods, knocking on doors, allowing them to know that they are not people to be feared but people to work with to make our city healthy and robust. i think that has a lot to do with us being able to solve crimes. we are very happy to be able to report that our crime rate is down. homicides are down. just north of us is washington, d.c., where crime rates are up. baltimore. are up in some cities have epidemic rates of crime. we have crime that is going down and i think it has a direct relationship to our emphasis on community policing. host: how so?

give us some examples. i think that when we have such a high rate of solved crimes, it becomes apparent to the bad actors in the community that it is not going to go unnoticed. you are not going to get away. people in the community have relationships with our police and someone is going to give us the information to close the case. i think people take that into consideration before they do some of the things that they do. community as a result not only of community policing but of being intentional about all aspects of life in the community. rate in thepoverty city of richmond. we recognize that getting people jobs and skills, improving

housing and education, all of them work together. host: you have seen the events of what happened in ferguson. what happened in baltimore. what are the lessons you saw from there that you applied to richmond when it comes to police relations with communities of color? guest: i think that the lessons come from here. at the incidents in the other cities, i began to think about the fact that our police department is diverse. we have good diversity in our police department because we are serving a diverse community. our political structure is diverse. i think that is important. people in the community have to have an ability to look at the leadership and see a reflection of themselves.

withve relationships community organizations and leaders. in some communities where there were problems, there were breakdowns in those kinds of relations that we have. the mayor of richmond, virginia joining us. the lines will be on your screen. let's start with stephen in connecticut. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. dynamics whatch comes to policing especially the use of force. i think an ally in the civil rights community, attorney general holder, i believe with -- i agree with everything he said. my daughter was rescued by a cop. and the guy was like thor. the training was excellent. how do we get better quality

candidates? i have heard anecdotal evidence that it is hard to recruit quality people of color. loretta lynch, has she talk to you guys -- talked to you guys? guest: i think you have to be very intentional about trying to attract good quality candidates to the police department. that is what we do here in the city of richmond. we do that by showing a relationship between the administration and the police department, making sure people know that they are not outsiders. in richmond, we are being intentional about trying to attract a more diverse police force. louis, a retired police officer, david. go ahead. outer: mayor jones, i came

the police academy in the 70's. during the time when community policing was one of the concepts that were becoming a vital tool to use in order to deter crime. when i graduated, once i took my th, it was actually prevention and apprehension. --t we need to get active when i became a sergeant. i used to sit back and look at my squad before i released them on the street. if the sergeants were paying close attention to anyone whose demeanor has changed, i used to pull them to the side and asked them if there is something personal going on and what we can do to resolve that. secondly, we always went from the term cosmetic. we would park the police car in a crime area and we would walk

the perimeters so that we would get to know who actually lives in the community. who is visiting the community. vehicles inntion to the facility that we knew lived or it was coming in transit. they have gotten away from that. what we need to get back to his tactics. hypothetically speaking, if i come up on a call where i feel a combative suspect or he has a mental problem, once my backup man cannot there, his job was to make sure that he and i went home safe. secondly, with all the tools we have available now, lethal force is one of the last things we should have to do. question, asked you a an incident is i you can tell me where team

policing solve something -- with: i think i can agree what most of the caller said. i certainly recognize and appreciate his service. on of the things we do is try to highlight the importance of our police department and how we respect and are grateful to our policeman and women for the service that they render. they put their lives on the line every day. i think the caller was exactly right in terms of the importance of community policing. the importance of knowing who is going in the community and to his coming out. the importance of knowing who the bad actors are. i think that's what we are doing here in the city of richmond. host: john in florida is next. don't hit the button on me too fast. say, i appreciate

the things you do. if you have been listening to the guests before you, you would notice all of the black people werecalled in on the show concerned about police brutality and the killings. like white people like to say, we support thugs and criminality. we have seen it with our own eyes. senseless beatings. senseless killings. something outt there acting crazy. lock them up. take them to jail. someone is doing wrong. i am a victim of that. i am a victim of being pulled over, police telling me, a grown man, telling me to sit on the ground.

sit on the ground for his safety. and when i refused he put me in jail for resisting arrest. because i do want to sit on the ground. in this manner like you are a piece of dirt. po don't give me that crab about police -- it is a system. these young cats are not aware that they have to be afraid of the police. and i'm not being racist. america -- they think we are disrespectful to police. but they treat us differently and that is the truth. that is the 100% truth and you need to address that. everybody has a difficult job. don't be an officer if you don't want to have a difficult job. we have to recognize that there

is systemic racism in policing. i grew up as a minority american and i certainly know what you are talking about. there has been a culture in the policing community that is being revealed now with new technology and social media. it is being revealed and it is not pretty in some instances. in the city of richmond where we ite 60% minority community, is just not something we can tolerate. the culture has got to change where it exists. one of the things i have done is i put $400,000 of my last budget toward body cameras so we can have objective evidence of what is going on out in the field. i think the culture is something

that is changing in some other places. i think you're in the city of richmond, we are probably a little bit further along in terms of having a culture sensitive to the diversity that we deal with in a 60% diverse community. minnesota.el in hello. caller: good morning, gentlemen. thank you for taking my call. i really appreciate everything that has been said. one of the things i have a major problem with is we talk about is, whereand my point is the concern from the police department as well as higher officials when we talk about change? is, the only way to amenable we have to be

to change. i don't see that happening. nobody is putting no effort out to change. we don't have programs or community watch programs. we don't even have basketball programs. if we want to see change, we have to bring everybody to the table at once. guest: i agree with you that change requires a conference of community effort. i don't want to make richmond appeared to be some type of utopia. we have our issues and some things that are yet to be done. some of the things you mentioned are going on here. we have a police athletically here.e

we have the mayor's youth academy. we have youngsters who in turn with the police. tern with the police. kind ofs to be the confidence in people that allow them to know that we are not just working on public safety. we are working on jobs, training, housing, transportation, trying to reduce the poverty rate, trying to so wese the tax rate o have more money for public safety. all of those things. when you look at our city and what we are trying to accomplish, our officers are out there in the community with their sleeves rolled up. they are with members of the community and i think the community is responding to that. asks,someone on twitter

if your city government has made cuts to police and fire budgets or if cops were laid off. guest: we have not laid off any policeman. en. i came into office during the worst recession since the depression. we were able to maintain our commitment to the police. in our last budget, we were able to give policemen a raise. we were able to fund training. more equipment, body cameras. i think we're finally winding ourselves out of the recession and our commitment is to make sure that our police force is made whole. we also raised the salary of incoming officers so that we are competitive with the surrounding immunities so that we don't

train police officers here and then they leave to go to a higher paying job in our surrounding communities. we have done a good job making sure police officers know we are putting our money where mouth is. host: patricia in virginia. caller: thank you for taking my call. anything i have had to do with the richmond police department has been very commendable. they have a hard job. they went beyond the call of duty to help me out when i needed it. i think they do an excellent job. guest: thank you very much. i will pass that on to the chief and to the men and women of the richmond police department. i think they do an excellent job as well. host: william in gary, indiana.

caller: good afternoon, c-span. this call was actually for your police chief but i am hoping the mayor can answer it. i would like to know how proactive is your internal affairs division? are they engaged in a broken window policy where they are actually working for the bad apples and not just relying on citizens complaints? dolso would like to know, you have an internal review .oard that looks at police that is pretty much it. i am not that deep in the weeds in terms of how internal affairs works. hadn say that we have not

in my six and a half years in office any incidents or problems that have risen to the top. you approvedones, a budget for the building of a new jail for your city, but when it came to the jail size, you made it smaller than originally asked for. can you explain? into office, came i was given a proposal to build a 2000 bed jail. belief is that we ought to not build larger jails but find ways to reduce incarceration. because the problem was that many of the people who were incarcerated had mental issues. some of them were low-level drug dealers. many of them were in jail because of a failure to pay their spousal support.

that is not the place for these kinds of people. the reduction in the size of the jail -- we also changed the name of a jail to a justice center. to just kind of change the whole concept of incarceration. so we have a drug court docket now. we have a drug court. we have a day center where persons are able to get like monitors and go to work and so forth. we have worked very hard to change the notion and the culture around incarceration with the help of our judges and our juvenile justice system and our sheriff. oldad a jail that was very and in terrible condition. people were dying in the jail because of heat a 60 nation. sphyxiation.

host: david in pennsylvania. police officers take an oath to protect and serve. but when it comes to the black community, we see them as they come to intimidate and to discriminate. andthe problem has been, there is obviously -- trying to paint with a broad brush. there is good cops and bad cops. but there has always been a code that the police protect the bad cops. and then it goes to the district attorney and they protect the bad cops. as a few calls have mentioned, when will the day come when there will be accountability for those bad apples that are there that the police department knows about, that there have been incidents where people are rogue, or their way of policing

is through intimidation? mayor's office and down, when will there be some type of accountability to get rid of these bad apples and don't wait until they kill somebody, but when they have done harm to the community and the police force, that they won't be protected by the mayor's office, or the district attorney? i think once we start seeing accountability for these rogue officers, you will get the respect of the community and the trust of the community. instead of the police supervisors turning their heads and allowing this abuse to continue. andant to see real change whenever there is some accountability and we see the police department leasing themselves, that is when you will see change in the community. when these people pulling over

people and the first thing they do is grab their gun, and the first thing they want to do is shoot someone instead of trying to change the situation and being able to communicate. the police officers are so afraid that no matter what the situation is, they're going to grab their gun instead of trying to police. host: thank you, david. guest: i think obviously the last year or so because of social media, a lot of attention has been brought to the fact that there are some issues. they are very deep issues and i don't disagree with much of what the caller has talked about. but i think that the upside of the social media attention is we are seeing this. it is no longer able to be swept under the rug. so when you have that actors, it is going to be found out now.

and the message has got to come down from the mayor's office, from the chief's office, that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. and that's what we do in richmond. inare very direct recognizing the importance of having a culture where policing by intimidation is not something that we tolerate nor is it something that we teach. you had our training officer on earlier on in the program. is very specific as to what we expect of officers and we will not tolerate that. we are not in the business of covering anything up. and i am not sugar coating things because of this program. i'm really saying to you that in our city we will not tolerate that. there will be no coverups here. host: rene in florida is next. good morning.

thank you for having me. is, they are here to protect and serve. how come when 70 runs away from shot in the get back? -- how come when somebody runs away from police, they get shot in the back? host: i don't really understand the question. let's move on. sharon from arkansas. there is one aspect of this entire subject that is never talked about. and that is immorality. societygoing on in our that individuals are no longer held accountable or responsible for their actions? seeing. sad what i'm

we live in a godless society. our children are not raised with respect for authority. cops are out there in a war zone. all you have to do is watch an and youor two of cops see what is going on out there. we are accountable for our actions. when we are stopped, when we are confronted, we comply. comply. respect. thank you. ok well i don't think there was a question there. we certainly recognize that the sanctity of life is extremely important. we don't want to lose any lives. we don't want to lose the lives of our citizens or officers. we have to create a culture

where we have respect for that. honor everybody's individuality, everybody's integrity. we don't want to demean everybody. we want to treat people the way we want to be treated. if that is what the caller meant, then i agree with her. host: mike in georgia. hello. caller: don't cut me off, brother man. i study law for a couple of years and i try to help folks around here when they get in a bind. my daddy was a lawyer and if so be got in a bind, he would take them home and dropped them off at their house and that would be the end of it. i live in a little hillbilly hamlet. my wife was raped by a police officer and when i reported he was promoted. every time they pull a kid over around here it is confrontational. it is all about the money. the fines, penalties, the levees.

ies. they got million-dollar cars. they put serve and protect off the side of the cars and put force on the side of the cars. police come up in my yard. and menaced my wife. somebody called the police on my wife and when i asked this lady what she was talking -- she was talking stupid to my wife. statute was she here to enforce. she grabbed her gun and came out there. and i don't even dare report this lady. my police in this neighborhood -- i couldn't live here anymore. mike.thanks ank little bit about being african-american person, head of a city that is largely african-american, how does that

impact what you do day by day particularly when it comes to police? large poverty a rate in the city of richmond. policing for us is extremely important. it is a delicate issue. we have to work very hard to make sure that we gain the respect of the people in our community. it is about the diversity. we have about 30% african-american officers. officers to make our department more diverse. we have a sensitivity to the needs and concerns of the people in our community. african-americans in our community have had issues with policing in the past all over the country. but i'm very proud to say that i believe we are really chipping

away at a culture that demeans african-american youngsters. and we are working very hard to make sure they have trust. somealler said we have police departments with force on their cars. we don't have that honor cars. we're not trying to have the image where we are the big bad policeman. we hope we are not even needed. we hope we don't have to even come into a community. there are incidents that occur, then you need to have a police force that is able to step up to the plate. so we are very sensitive to the needs of our minority community. i have lived it. i don't have to go to school to learn it. i grew up in south philadelphia and came here to go to college. i have been in richmond for many years.

i know the system and the bad actors in the system. you have to be able to weed out the bad actors and change the culture. that is a very difficult ship to turn around. host: this is mark from richmond. caller: good morning. i just want to ask the mayor, how do you feel about the legalization of marijuana? in light of what the d.c. council voted a few months ago? thank you and i appreciate you taking my call. goodbye. guest: i really haven't followed what is going on in washington, d.c. on the local scene there. but the legalization of marijuana seems like it is something that is gaining traction throughout the nation. the statet for 15ture -- i served years before he became mayor and i know that the state legislature here in virginia

probably would not be inclined to move in that direction. ireland don't think it is something we're going to have to deal with in the short term. host: gale from virginia. hello. wanted to bring up a factor that has something to do with getting arrested when you don't need to be and maybe getting killed when you don't need to be. that has nothing to do with race. interestingly, 30 years ago, i was in graduate school in st. louis. altercation, verbal altercation. the person called the police. the police came, asked me what was my part. i said one sentence. said, just go inside your house and be quiet. and i started to say the exact same sentence, got halfway out, and i was arrested for failure to comply with a reasonable request of a police officer. i am caucasian. it has nothing to do with race.

that particular thing. i do not believe young people understand that. that younglieve people even to this day understand that if a police officer says something, whatever it is, as long as it is reasonable, you have to do it. or you are subject to arrest. host: mayor jones. her incident was 30 years ago. while there probably are some police departments that are still caught up in a time warp, i think that in the city of richmond, i consider our policing efforts to be progressive. i don't think those kinds of things would happen here. the final part of her state was that when you are approached by an officer that you should comply. and i agree completely. these are officers of the law. when you are approached by an officer, he should be courteous to the officer and the officer should be courteous to you.

there a connection between areas of crime and poverty and what are you doing about it in richmond? what we are trying to do is eliminate poverty. ahave instituted what i call office of wealth building. because we want to get rid of poverty in the city of richmond. we still have public housing. in the city of richmond. we are trying to mitigate that by replacing it with market rate housing and affordable housing. we have a very comprehensive program of job training. we are training young people to be welders, for jobs that exist. good paying jobs that are not just hand to mouth jobs. create careers and

opportunities for individuals to take care of their family. we're looking at early childhood education. it is a gamut. we're talking about transportation. making sure people have a way to get to jobs. i think the whole poverty issue for us, the low income issue for us, has got to be addressed not just with policing but with a comprehensive program to change that dynamic. to change that scenario. to take people out of the very depths of despair and give them hope for a better life. and when you have hope for a better life, you are not inclined to do things that are against the law. washington, d.c., here is john. good morning. caller: good morning, mayor. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: i am the executive director of public

accountability and safety standards. we set up policies for elected officials. because of the legalization of marijuana. we want to make sure that legalization only happens for public use. not the executive elected body who we elect in office. and we are moving nationwide to implement these policies in many different states. seven states have adopted some of our policies. d.c., sinceington, the legalization of marijuana has taken place, we want to have a safety check. not only for our elected officials but also our police department.

the chief as well as our on the beat police force. how do you feel about that? guest: well, as i mentioned legalizede don't have marijuana in the city of richmond. so i really don't -- haven't given that a lot of thought. i think that in areas where they do have it, it is supposed to be enacted to medicinal uses or approved by a physician. if that is the case, i guess they will have to make some as to who canns avail themselves of that and who cannot. deals withse this the larger issue of race relations, what do you think needs to be done in that area? what is your role in the city of richmond? guest: in terms of race relations? host: improving race relations overall. had racethink we have

relations issues for years and years. we just lost one of our great civil rights icons, julian bond. we have had great leaders who lead for equal justice under the law. i think we have to continue that fight in a different way. i am in public office today because of my commitment to social justice. i grew up in the 70's. i recognized that there were inequalities that needed to be dealt with. i decided that the best way i could do that was to get into a position of leadership. so that's why i went to the general assembly of virginia. that's why i'm mayor of the city of richmond. you need someone at the top who is able to be intentional about making sure that individuals who work for you, individuals who are living in your city, are apprised of things that

sometimes they don't even recognize as being discriminatory or racial. and so it's important for us to just have a sixth sense about this. and recognize the importance of dealing with not just perception but reality. this is mayor dwight jones of richmond, virginia. thank you for your time today. guest: thank you. also want to thank the other members of the richmond police department for participant in this program. that's it for today. a new edition of this program comes your way tomorrow. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]