to get to 67 and the aim now for democrats is not just to sustain a veto but the block publicans from even passing a motion. to do that they need to be unified and so far the only senate democrats to reject it are charles schumer of new york, robert menendez of new jersey. among the undecided senators that they are closely watching from you mentioned mr. koontz and mr. durbin. it spoken with mr. obama and the president biden saying administration both serve military efforts to defend israel and counter iran nonnuclear aggression. from christian in connecticut, your next. caller: it was interesting hearing everybody talking this morning and thank you for having me on. -- i am invested

a little bit but i think everybody likes to blame these crashes on external events. -- i think it is important to note that the great robert schuller who predicted the real estate crash and the stock market bubble of 2000 is now doing his pe cap ratio at 27 for the s&p 500 and that was before the downturn. so with the downturn that will be a little bit lower. there has only been three other ratio has beenpe that high and that is the price to earnings and that was 1929 and the year 2000 and the year 2008 and now once again.

i think you should spend the show getting some people on to talk more about the federal reserve because there are a lot of experts out there, they are abundant, and they talk about this being a federal reserve bubble. a central banking bubble. i could go on for hours if you wish, i know we don't have the time but the federal reserve has expanded its balance sheet by approximately $3 trillion and that money has gone directly -- while not directly but indirectly into paper assets. --d prices, stock prices this has caused great is locations in pricing. while we are looking at external

events to blame on the selloff of the market, i think we should be looking closer at home. a lot of these profits are phantom profits and they are induced by things like stock buybacks where the companies are taking all of their cash and using it to buy back their stock which reduces their float which makes the stock price go higher and in turn these ceos are cashing out on stock options. there is a direct correlation there. host: i will leave it there because sam is up next from montana. good morning. caller: if people remembered, right after barack obama was elected president, barack obama and hillary clinton met to meet with this group. this group wants to control the world's finances and the world economy.

if you want to know where your money goes watch george soros. bet $2 billion about one month ago that the stock market would take a sharp dive. he will make billions of dollars on. there are republicans that work for this group, too condoleezza rice, ben bernanke -- i got out of the stock market when i heard that in 2008. thank you. host: what specifically about that drove you to do that? bergr: well the builder group, does anybody know about them? have you ever had anybody on your program talking about them and their goal? host: for those who don't know, what is it? caller: there are about 30 billionaires in the united states or the whole world that

want to control all the money in the world and the world economy. they can do whatever they want and it won't hurt them. host: so you pull your money out of the stock market, where you put it and what are you using for investing? well, in my mattress, basically. i have a hidden in my house in a the federalbecause government is corrupt. you cannot of the difference between a democrat or a republican anymore. host: sam in montana sharing his thoughts and his saving strategy. is justice department weighing in on senator bob menendez's defense. against the alleged corruption charges saying the department

pushed back monday against efforts by the senator to dismiss the corruption indictment against him calling the case the result of an exhaustive, focused and disciplined investigation that spanned more than two years. the new court followings are the latest and a high-stakes court case involving the cuban democrat from new jersey and a wealthy florida eye doctor accused of running him with contributions and lavish gifts. governments first response an aggressive attack on the indictment submitted last month by the defense team which submitted hundreds of pages of documents that fought dismissal of the charges and that accused him of misconduct. prosecutors resented additional details and testimony to support the allegation. they have charged him of accepting campaign contributions and luxury trips to paris and the dominican republic in exchange for performing political favors on his behalf.

frank is in new jersey. thank you for calling. 2008, after being invested in the stock market for 25 years i realized that the up-and-down movement of the precipitated by the people who had the most amount of money who would skim the profits off the top of the market and the people that were stuck holding the losses were funds so i took my money in 2008 and i put it into an annuity that i was lucky enough to get into at 6.5%. so since 2008 my money has been earning 6.5% every year. therere are annuities out and you happen to be in your 50's and older it might want to see if you can buy an annuity

today you want be lucky to get 4.5%. you're still going to do better overall. the people that have the big money can skim off the top. the market seems to go up and get their 2000 points in one year, you will see these corrections because these guys old out of the market. 0.1% of thetop money earners in the world can just pull out, skim the profit off, weight for the market to drop like it is going to, and then buy back in and the market will come up again. type of see this rolling of the market consistently. it is hard to make money in the stock market on a 401(k) nowadays. caller: as far as the annuity,

the 6% rate of return is that guaranteed for the life of the annuity? caller: that is guaranteed for the life of the annuity. they have been trying to buy me out, to buy back. guaranteed -- or the market, whichever is higher. if the market does better than 6.5% and i get from the market. otherwise i get a 6.5% on my earnings. 6.5%6'5" percent -- that makes my guaranteed income go up. since the money in the annuity is invested in different stocks, the actual value of the annuity can go down but my earnings go $100,000 itput in is going up at 6.5%, so the earning side of it can be $200,000 as the actual value of the money could only be $70,000,

but my earnings is considered at 200,000, so if i was to grow money i would get 6.5% of $200,000 instead of $100,000. host: rodney is in florida. we have set aside a line for those aged 36-50. rodney falls into this line. thank you for calling, go ahead. caller: i was calling [indiscernible] we will have to hold on. i want to see if we can try to get a better connection for you. go try to make a better connection and we will see if we can get that in. the impactjoining us of the stock market is a downturn from yesterday. you can talk about that and your faith in the stock market and other elements.

some people are speaking about china and if you want to give your comments we've divided the lines differently. (202) 748-8000 if you are 35 and younger. if you are in the ages of 36-50 (202) 748-8001. and if you are 51 and older (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls and post them on our facebook page and our twitter page as well. we will give rodney another shot. rodney from claremont, florida. go ahead. caller: thank you, sir. i was calling because with the annuities i have lost a lot of 2008, with the 401(k). believe that if it

was not for the 401(k) the stock market would crash. people thinking of the that don't know that much about the stock market, has a 401(k) for retirement and of lost a lot of their income. the people that know a lot about it come in and they take a 401(k) and people invest and you lose everything, but they still gain. i do think it is fair to be forced into it -- into the stock market with your retirement plan. that is my comment. host: how much of your money is tied up in the stock market or annuity? what is the breakdown? there is $300,000. i have $200,000 in certain stocks. i was dealing with trying to learn how to trade and go and

different kinds of natural 401(k)es but i think the thing is a joke. you are to give some kind of training before you force people into the 401(k). they are getting a certain cut out of the money and i don't think it is fair. caller: -- host: as far as educating yourself, how did you do that? caller: i watch a lot of c-span and i have a friend that trades stocks and he is very good at it . he was warning me about the certainly put your money. you just kind of forget about it and you think it will be ok. then when everything falls you don't really have a retirement.

a lot of companies are using the for a when k -- are using the 401(k) which souter -- should have been a subsidy but now they are using it as the main retirement. it is hurting a lot of people. host: we had several people early on who say they use this opportunity to buy specific stocks because they are lower-priced. is it something you are doing? idear: that is a very good that it was very confusing yesterday with a stock markets going up and going down and by the time you get it you already have it at the higher price. see have to try to get it at the right time with the numbers were running. host: gotcha. caller: it went down almost $1100 it was hard to get in there and get something. like apple, it was hard to get in there because by the time you make the transaction it already went up and you were stuck with whatever they were at. arion is up next in

indiana. 36 and younger. hello. caller: good morning. i am not really certain how much stocks are doing. recognizingas just the market can be volatile but also knowing that the eight at which i was getting in, that, traditionally, those who take the biggest hit are the ones who have been in longer or have more to lose because of what they have invested. stilloking at that now being under. i still have a ways to go, so even if it will take a hit -- i

know i will also be reaching that point soon where i will i am worrying about it starting a job that will allow me to go to a different 401(k). i'm still not at a job that allows me to do that. whatever i had was from a previous job. i do not know much about wealth management to be able to look at each individual staff. market isbecause the not as free, if you want to say ,t, i know there are times manipulations of factors, i would just assume diverse five. like the previous caller said, not rely on my 401(k) being the primary source of retirement when it take comes, but invested gold andways, such as

hopefully investing in either local companies, businesses of my own, or friends in emily i trust in my area, getting that some return as far as my retirement goes. market, how stock it affects your finances, and your trust in the stock architect coming up next, alfonso aguilar, former bush and ministration official, here to talk about the role immigration is playing in the 2016 campaign and how it could possibly hurt the gop. , and in the program education activist and author of the book "this is not a test." we'll talk about the challenges facing public education. continuesn journal" after this. ♪

>> saturday, august 29 marks the 10th anniversary of hurricane katrina. tonight at 80, c-span's tour of hurricane damage and recovery efforts. -- describing their experiences during and after the storm. >> they told us they would take us to shelters where they can get help. they loaded us up on military trucks. then they declared the city of new orleans, jefferson parish, a war zone. it still does not sink in that we were the prisoners of war. >> wednesday night at 8:00, c-span's 2006 tour in louisiana. >> that is your whole life gone, completely. you have nothing but rubble

left. not only your house, but your whole community. everybody's gone. andill now be a year later you do not see any more that you used to see. hell of a feeling care you do not forget it and you will never forget the rest of your life. >> followed at 9:00 with a 2005 house meeting. >> i am relying on you. of this is state level, federal level, and all other levels. i voted for you. to represent me. on a local level. i do not know where else to go. i do not know what else to do. orleans withnew the new york times executive editor and fifth -- and family. and we will show you president

obama passes trip to the region as well as remarks from the recovery effort 10 years after katrina. all this week on c-span. "washington journal" continues. host: our guest is alfonso aguilar. in his previous career, he was the former chief of u.s. office of citizenship from 2003 2 2008. good morning. guest: thank you so much for having me. host: a message the gop presidential candidates are -- on the community? guest: very big but it varies from candidate to candidate. donald trump is getting a lot of attention and the message is negative and dem and -- devastating. he would never get the support of latino voters. favorable rate with latinas of negative one. he says that mexicans love him.

i think some of the other candidates are hurting themselves because they align themselves with trunk -- with trump or remain silent. those rebuking him forcefully, especially governor bush and senator rubio, are doing very well with latino loners. they will do well in the general election. the best way forward particularly if you're looking at candidates like senator rubio? what is the best way forward in light of the rhetoric? you have to react to trump whether you like it or not. he is number one in the polls. he is leading. every time he makes an or saysus statement something about immigration, i think it is important to react to him and state why he is wrong. that is what jeb bush did

yesterday by going to the border and explaining donald trump is conservative, how his plan makes no sense. i think it is important to do that. if you do, supporters will say, they are not like trump. for others, governor walker, for example, aligning himself with saying he supports ending birthright citizenship. suddenly, he is saying, i did not say that and i will not change birthright citizenship. walker, theerms of damage is done pair latinos see him as someone not favorable on immigration. trump is an opportunity. he creates a tough -- a toxic environment and if he continues, he could affect whoever the republican nominee turns out to be. the only one that for sure could , theome this environment

toxic environment, is governor bush, because of deep connections with owners -- with latino voters. we will air this for you and let you react. are notrump plans grounded in conservative principles. it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars and it is not realistic. to bed border security able to deal with getting this stuff back on track. into what he said and what i said. the fact is his polls will is unrealistic and it will cost hundreds of billions of dollars. it will violate people's civil liberties and create friction with our third-largest trading partner that is not necessary. i think he is wrong about this. comprehensivein a approach, he should read my book a couple years ago and i welcome mr. trump into the debate and i think that is great. he is a serious candidate and ought to be held to a series candidates ought to be held to.

accountable for his use. targeting aically plan of donald trump. is that a strong enough defense? guest: yes. governor bush knows about immigration. great to understand the complexity of the immigration debate and i have exchanged views with ampyra he knows the issue. it shows a lack of seriousness when he says, we will deport everyone. how does that happen? or hes not ask plane p just makes the statement that everyone needs to go. of lawe majority enforcement experts say, you cannot just round up people and send them out. birthright citizenship, it is a conch -- it is a right. historically, republicans fought to ensure the full citizenship of african-americans.

at the same time, to establish the principles of citizenship by being born in the united states. finally, this idea of curtailing legal immigration. trump is not only saying, you know, illegal immigration is that. siding with somebody who he was within alabama the other day at a rally, saying immigration is bad because it suppresses wages. that had never been the republican approach. ronald reagan believed immigration is a program of policy that could expand consumer base, generate economic activity, and create better paying jobs for american workers. really, the plan lacks substance and seriousness. i think governor bush is showing he understands the issue much better. in terms of securing the border, he would be doing a much better job.

host: four republicans -- -- democrats if you want to give your thoughts on this topic -- the american principles in action, what is this group and what does it specifically support in terms of immigration? guest: a very conservative organization that believes in what ronald reagan talked about, family values, small government, sound monetary policy. we believe in the reagan principle spirited immigration policy based on the rule of law. strengthens domestic enforcement but at the same time it is compassionate that brings people out of the shadows. also understands the importance of market-based immigration. the problem is not just so much the undocumented. we need to facilitate illegal flows of foreign workers that

our economy needs. host: especially jobs that might doing they americans work, is that a reasonable blue >> -- a reasonable view? it is not a conservative view. you have rick santorum calling for a cut in legal immigration. -- theylso saying legal group bernie sanders, who says the same thing, which is very interesting. economy they see the from a very static perspective, which has never been a conservative way. we analyze economic development analysisuse dynamic and understand that more people in the economy is not something bad.

it generates more economic activity. it creates more jobs for american workers because they are taking niche jobs that americans are not taking forward upstreamon creating an in the labor market for american workers. that is the view. it is interesting that people like santorum are sounding like the liberals like bernie sanders. who knew? host: what about the idea that mr. trump and others brought out about building a wall along the southern border? guest: just talking about a wall is simplistic. fors in homeland security many years and i toured the border. we need strategic fencing. i do not think governor bush or opposethe candidates that you have to explain what that means. it means extending government -- double layer fencing, which has and shown to work to reduce the number of apprehensions, really

focusing on what the problem is. specifically the el paso sector. trump does not even talk about that. frankly, he is clueless. there are parts of the border where people are just not is just because there no traffic and no movement. just to say a big wall, that is just for a certain sector of the conservative nation, not the majority, but a small and very vocal sector. host: we have calls lined up for you. republican line, missouri. caller: my question is, why is that was illegal immigration, we also get the criminal element? we get the criminals coming through here we cannot do anything about them. they come in and commit crimes here they go home and come back and go home and come back. then they get to the point where they commit murder.

and then we decide to take action. the other countries do not want them back, and yet we have to contain them. we cannot do something off the criminal element coming through? i live in an area where i have -- a lot of them are wonderful and hard-working people with nice families. they are wonderful people. the criminal element, i am sick of hearing about -- they come in the border, no one stops them. there is nothing to detain them. homecannot be sent back because they come across again and all countries do not want them and will not contain them. that is my question. a very good point and i agree with you. i think the obama administration has done very little to secure the border. they basically think it is secure or you're absolutely right that opens the door for criminal elements, even people -- ity have perished could happen.

we have to take border security seriously. we do for strategic fencing and using other assets here it also forcing domestic enforcement, for example creating biometric entry and exit registries. the majority -- the majority and the overstaying their visa. we want to make sure we know who they are and that we are able to ensure that they return to the home country. having said that, what we cannot say like mr. trump is saying, that the majority of immigrants are rapists or criminals. that is just factually not true. shown, studys after study, that immigration actually lowers the crime rate within the immigrant community, crime rates are lower. communityn entire because something terrible like what happened in san francisco took lace, it is very unfair. we were not generalize about the

entire american citizenry because a few citizens commit crime. i think we can generalize. immigration is good for the country, but your absolute right that we have to enforce the law. from aot just see this very limited perspective, border security. we may secure, have a wall on the border, but if we do not have a way for immigrants to will legally, the market still have the demand. something governor bush supports, senator rand paul supports, marco rubio supports, but apparently not donald trump. good morning, how are you doing? i am from the left wing of the democratic party. what you are selling us is pure crack. let me tell you something.

visa problem and this issue we do not need guest workers. we need to give jobs back to american citizens on and raised in live here. the theory that they come here because they need to find a better way for their family, no. what they need to do is stand up in the nations they come from. this is not just concerning mexico. it is concerning every other country where these individuals come from. i do not care how good they are or how well their families are or much-needed work. they need to get politicians of off of their behind and start creating jobs where they are from and then they could make a better life for themselves exactly where they are living at p or this excuse that we need workers coming and because they're educated and do jobs americans do not want to do, that is a fabricated lie. ist we used to do in america on job training. if you do not have an education,

at least you were trained to know how to do the job available there for you. what we have done now is gone through this theory that we need this worker from this place. we do not need a babysitter from germany. we have americans that will babysit american children. we do not need a guest worker to build a bridge or a road from mexico and we have americans back and do that stuff. quit stuff -- quit trying to sell the fantasy that we need other people to come here and work. america needs to get up off its americans do the jobs do and let those people do the jobs there nations require them to do. have a nice morning. thank you for the question. i appreciate your passion. i appreciate that you say you come from the left. that is a view of the left, of restricting immigration, legal immigration. i think you're being honest about it, whether president

area or hillary clinton expressing the view they sure illegaly want less immigration. president obama has always been against programs. he's just doing with the symptom and not the problem, that we need more foreign workers. wish president obama and hillary clinton would be very open and say like you that they are opposed to immigration and then they would really understand where they stand. perception.ith your i have traveled all of us the country meeting with businesses. i do not see a lot of americans lining up to do agricultural restaurant industry.

low skill workers, i think we should have a labor certification process. if companies cannot find american workers, then they should bring foreign workers. but i agree with you they should hire those workers. at the low end, americans are just not lining up. withe higher level, those advanced degrees, the reality people can college tell you come we are not graduating enough americans with advanced degrees. we need to bring those people, we have degrees from china and india. we do not bring them in an hour middle-class will hurt. thank you for your call. i am so tired of hearing donald trump talk about

immigrants. they were good enough to build his golf course and his casinos. now he comes out with this them.dish talk against americans will not do the job here they want $15 an hour to say, "do you want that meal supersized?" i know of a lot of immigrants door jobsere that are americans will not do because they want everything for nothing. the more they get the, -- get, the more they want. it is outlandish. shame on the public for letting donald trump getaway with his outlandish talk and rhetoric. abouts a man who brags cheating people out of their investment. this is the man, his clothing

line is made in china and the rest is made in mexico. -- would he want to live in the white house? he is used to living in his state old gold lined place. say toime for people to stand up. he is ridiculous. he reminds me of a hot air balloon. host: we will let our guest respond. guest: i think she makes good points. donald trump is a mixture between berlusconi and chavez. both entertaining but not necessarily the greatest leaders. there is an element here of self-delusion. we are frustrated with washington's a we all the sudden think donald trump is an solvetic person who will all of our problems. even immigration, to my friends within the conservative base,

only three years ago, donald trump blasted mitt romney for immigration, saying he was not welcome of immigrants, calling deportation maniacal and saying he was for comprehensive reform. this is donald trump. yourselfeing true to when you support somebody who said these things only three years ago? he was for partial-birth abortion, single-payer health care systems, socialized medicare. he advocated for an increase in income taxes. he advocated for limiting the second amendment. and we truly think this person is authentic? he says he is a non-politician. he is the ultimate politicians. i think he is following his book, the art of the deal. his goal is to make the best

deal, i can sort of the american public and when the white house. host: south carolina, independent line. caller: i have been calling into c-span since i heard about the immigration. staying pretty busy, 10 or 11 , now we cannot even buy a job around here. over.uction fully took i know they need a job in the world and not just the country. it has gone to a point in america to where americans cannot get jobs anymore. i do not know what it will come to. if it will be trumped or whatever, but we have got to have relief in the country so we can go back to work. thank you for taking my call. guest: depending on what is

political he expedient. you do not know the idea he is articulating today. in terms of not being able to find jobs in the construction image or -- industry, there are worse -- irresponsible employers hiring undocumented immigrants because they can pay them less -- pay them less than minimum wage. they are undocumented immigrants. they will not complain. if they are legalized, they will have to beef -- be treated fairly. because they are legal. there is a process where you have to ensure those you hire our american workers. if not, you can hire foreign workers. having said that, a company that cannot find american workers should not be told by big is a very bigit

government, democratic idea. conservatives believe highly regulating the labor market, when was that a conservative idea? reagan tears i do not know if that is the conservative way. guest was the former chief of u.s. often -- office of citizenship from 2003 to 2008. joining us now, talk about the process? i must say something we do well in this and other countries in the west, canada, the u.k., they are actually following our model. u.s. citizenship and immigration services is responsible for the

nationalization processes. in some cities, you can become a citizen in three months. you have to wait three to five years as a resident. you have to take a nationalization exam and an english exam. effort for the new test. it is a good test. and were a basic u.s. civics curriculum focused on learning principles, like rule of law, freedom of religion, weural rights, principles hope they will develop a loyalty to america. we are nationalizing around half permanentor more residents per year. i think it is true it ronald reagan said, you can corner the world and become fully american. i think it is a wonderful process.

but it should not be a simple process. it takes a lot of people many years. but it does say a lot about our , as american as our forefathers. process that costs 685 dollars approximately. it is a simple process and immigration services is doing a great job managing it. sandra in alabama, democrats line. caller: you act as though anyone who is against illegal immigration is against hispanics. we have one in our family and she will be the first one to tell you, it is the illegal part you all cannot seem to understand. it is not justice hispanics come across the border.

in new jersey, they are letting people get their drivers license, women with burqas on and you cannot even see their face. things have got to be stopped. it goes with coming in the legally, and jobs. there are americans who will do jobs if they just get the chance to do it. it just burns us up to here, go on and on that no american will do the job. there are plenty of us out here. i've a sister claims she cannot get a job. i'm telling you, there is americans who will work at picking fields and cleaning houses. you name it, they will do it. give them a chance. people already took jobs is what you all do not seem to understand. i am sorry if i got upset, but i want you to know how we feel. thank you ray much. -- thank you very much. guest: they're also population factors.

the average age of a weight anglo-american is 41. you need a healthy population .rowth for our economy to grow our population is growing because of immigration. it cannotmigration, grow and create jobs. if we stop illegal immigration, like some are proposing, and follow the model of the populations of europe, we will be in the same situation they are in with stagnant economic growth, recessionary processes. think that is what americans want. the average age is 27 of hispanics. we need younger people. if that helps keep programs like social security solvent -- it is not like the country is overpopulated. i would argue we need more immigration. i understand the economy is in terrible shape, that the jobs

being created are not good paying jobs. but do not blame the immigrants for that. there is a reality out there. if an american wants to get an agricultural job, he or she can. arizona, i have been in california. they are just not lining up. are no americans of working age to do those tough jobs. employers have a responsibility to hire them over a foreign worker if they line up here but they are just not lining up. i think we have to understand that. and decorations, they're not just taking jobs away from americans or suppressing wages. they help create jobs for americans. it is important, if you're in a dotroom for example, and you not have people working in the kitchens and busing tables, he

will not be able to create the waiter jobs for college students, the management jobs for americans, or keep other small businesses related to the restaurant industry growing and expanded. companies owned by americans. i understand the pain of a lot of people who are not getting good paying full-time jobs. but i think it is easy to blame immigrants when they are really not responsible. are the bigonsible government policies of this administration that have led to economic growth that is not robust enough, and job creation jobs being created are not good paying full-time jobs. host: what is the best way to do with illegal immigrants here in the united states? guest: there is no easy answer and no magic the problem.

but there is no way we can remove them. i think governor bush articulated this well. let's give them a path to -- no special path to citizenship. if they want to become citizens, they have to follow the path established current -- currently by law. taxes, then allow them to remain here with illegal status. problems, they can be moved right away. to say all of the sudden, let's just secure the border or saying trumpet saying, that we could actually remove them, later we are thing we would actually go to their houses and him forcefully, i think that is un-american. it may violate civil -- civil

liberties. many undocumented immigrants are u.s. citizens. i think that is not the right way to proceed. it can be done anyway we do not have the resources to remove 11 million people. a lot of them have been here for decades. shadowsem out of the and then a sure this does not happen again. we ensure that i having a comprehensive border security and and forth domestic law ensuring that employees do not hire undocumented immigrants by having some form of biometric card for immigrant workers where they cannot pick a job if they do not have a card.

caller: good morning. i think people are very excited about donald trump because he have an understanding of the frustration of the average american. like no other politician. it is not acceptable without our consent. we are a country of immigrants, and yet, in 2008 and 2012, we -- the latin vote. my feeling about this is it is all about power. borders andve open a welfare state. we are doing very poorly and we will wind up like greece. tore headed down the road misery and poverty in this country because our politicians only and power and the democratic party wants the hispanic vote.

president eisenhower many years millionrted one hispanic immigrants illegally. it can be done. we do not have to do that. we have to stop the welfare and hiring and give them are -- america back to the americans not doing well. my own family. i agree we have to reform the welfare state by no means. majority of immigrants do not have access to federal benefits. that is the fallacy. residence have to be in the u.s. for five years before they have access to federal benefits did undocumented immigrants do not have access to federal benefits. i agree we have to reform the welfare state. i agree wholeheartedly where where i disagree, and i think we have to be fair, is the whole latinization of america.

american identity is not based on blood or religion. it is based on ideals. on principles, a shared sense of history, and a common language, because we need english to communicate to deliberate our problems. howwe should not see -- many hispanics are already citizens? are we going to question how american they are? this is going down a slippery road when we start saying these people are not american or this is not american. we are all american. we can talk about internationalization process. uke--you become a citizen and you can be as american as our forefathers. beginning, the founding of the country, the country was at a time where the majority were white and protestant. even within that community, there was a lot of diversity.

time, it was a recognition of great diversity. that is how the country started. if you start to see them as some , they have different backgrounds. the majority of latinos are pro-life. they believe in life. they believe in traditional marriage. conservatives were smart, they would be constructive on thegration to overcome issue. and they would become very competitive with latinos and latinos would be supportive of conservative cost -- conservative causes. as mentioned donald trump someone who understands how people are hurting. digit know he was against immigration form -- reform three years ago and he blessed romney willingg for -- you're

to give that guy chance? you really trust him? don't you think a year from now he will say something complete different than what he is saying now? there are others who are focused on border security, rick santorum, they are at least more honest and coherent than donald trump. i would ask you why you are someoneyour trust in who has flip-flopped some eight times. i think there is a celebrity factor. i think people enjoy donald trump and the him on tv. but he is turning the entire primary into reality show. they look at heart of shows and at some point, they will get tired of donald trump. host: our guest, alfonso aguilar , talking to us about the campaign for 2016. thank you. coming up, we will hear from and wejose luis vilson

will talk about the challenges for public education. journal" returns after this. ♪ >> this sunday night on q&a, brookings institutions senior fellow brown talks about the u.s. counter insurgency in state building efforts in afghanistan. improved security but nonetheless, it depends on how it ends. increasinglyt question myself. we do not know how it will end. it is also possible that five isis hasn the road, now slowly emerged in the country.

much worse than the taliban. the taliban is deeply entrenched . if we end up five years down the road in new civil war in and a new safe haven for the taliban and isis, i would say was not worth the price. >> sunday night at 8:00 is done and pacific on c-span's q&a. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us, jose luis vilson. author of the book "this is not a test or co- -- test." can you give us a sense of your story, not only as a teacher but when it comes to issues of education? guest: i grew up on the lower eastside of manhattan and growing up in the hood, i found

myself in the throes of a lot of the drug warfare, a lot of the police activity going on. in the midst of that, those going from a young and naive black latino male, to this education activist. that, i wentt through public and private schools and got a degree in computer science and found myself thinking that i could do so much better for my kids if i became a teacher. be someone who could inspire a whole lot of students to become much better than what everyone perceive them to be. i also felt we could have more moreers of color, culturally competent in the way they did things. i could see it was not just about the economics. i am a big fan of that, but i also think we need to work on social components and work on more pro-child initiates

to make sure all children can learn. being a public education teacher, what do you think about the way washington does education? what are your concerns about it if you have any? generally my concern is when it comes to politics especially at the federal level, there is not enough nuance in what happens with education and how teachers work with students. often times, it is a lot of heady policy. it is washington, i get it. i also feel like it does not come at the forefront of things that come into the policy. gettingme we talk about rid of bad teachers and all these little talking points, we failed to recognize the relationships between students and teachers are really what become muchs to better than what they already are. it is often times about how we could get kids college careers ready and we never discuss how

we could make sure we have better human beings coming out of our school system. consistentlyng we hear about is the idea of a testing tod test or show achievement or how it affects the school if the number of students do not hit the mark. talk to that issue, especially from your perspective. when it comes to standardized testing, i realize there has to be a sense of accountability to her most people say they do want to be held accountable. i do feel like at the federal as well as the state level, you know who i am working with in terms of my governor as well as my former mayor, every politician has talked about testing, testing, testing. of fail to recognize that testing is not going to solve our problems. if anything, the best way to measure our students is due teachers making cuts, teachers creating these and getting a

.ense of how they are doing it is not about major corporations coming in and telling the teachers what they need to be doing and how they need to be moving their students only finding out the results about five or six months later. it needs to become more needs to become more responsive to the students of front of us. often times, a lot of the discussion is, we need to just test more. i would argue we need to have fewer tests and maybe just have one that does not assure the kids performing the lowest have schools shut down from under them. , our jose luis vilson guest, who wrote the book, "this is not a test." he talked about issues of education. if you want to call and ask questions about things he has talked about or perspectives you have seen when it comes to education, for parents, a line for you -- for teachers --

for an administrator, if you want to give your perspective -- for all others -- talking little bit about what it is like being a public school teacher, as far as your day is concerned. how much of your day is spent in actual education in front of a classroom? what issues do you face as a teacher? generally, i live and breathe this stuff. a lot of people talk about holidays and summers off at all these other things that are really inconsequential. as far as i'm concerned, when i wake up, i am mr. vilson. i wake up at 5:30 in the morning, get to school at 7:30, my kids start around 8:00, and i know i will have to deal with 90 students in a day. i am not just dealing with

academic proficiency. im saying, is the student learning about linear relationships, are they competent in getting these variables manipulated? i am also thinking about what their home life is like edit often times comes into the classroom when they are not always ready for it often times, my response has to come from a place of love and a place of learning. things i am dealing with, i would say only about 40% of what i do with on a daily basis is actually academic. the other 50% has to do with social and emotional well-being. often times, that struggle does are wee into discussions have teacher education debates, any of that stuff. on a daily basis, i am working on grading papers, lesson planning throughout the week. i am already thinking about how i will work as my students. it is very early morning to her nest soon as i wake up, i am brushing my teeth and thinking about how i will work with some

of my kids who need a lot more help. throughout the day, even during my break, i am thinking about how i can help students become better at what they do. host: social and emotional aspects, give me an example. i had students this year who have come in super hungry. without eating any breakfast. i had kids who have had their parents work until midnight. some of my kids had parents who work not just 925, but 3:00 p.m. to midnight and may have to wait for the past to come in before they could get some sleep. that affects their livelihoods because when they wake up, my already tired and restless and often times they come in with those very issues. adolescent phase, because i am also teaching middle , youl, whole other level know seventh and eighth grade, it is a little messy. when you are working with areence whose lives

changing, they do not really have a foundation for how they are going to live their lives, what the teacher has to do is try to reframe a lot of frustration and anger and try to find out what is going on with as soon as we talk about things we need to do for the day. the thing i do my classroom is i tried to make sure i do know where the students are coming from but then i'm always like, ok, we need to get to a really high standard. i understand you have all these issues. i will work with you until we get to the point where i think you are really ready to move onto to the next level. that has always in my drive. oscar, go ahead. you're on with our guest. have you commented on what i was just going to say. i remember when i was a kid. i am a howard university graduate in washington, d.c.

i grew up in d.c. bilingualg will -- a hispanic. i was almost put back in second grade allows a kid because of my line with proficiency. believe it or not, they were testing kids, way before -- this was in the 1970's. i was in grade school and 70 -- 1973. eighth grade. i remember in the second grade, the principal had a talk with my mom. mom had to go to the principals office and ask her, do you speak two languages. was a private school and she said, no, i don't. it is a perfect example of how disconnects with the education system, they treat kids, because they speak going was differently, they treat them as if there is an egg ninth level. there is no such thing.

the kit -- these kids go home and i do not have the parents to help them with their homework. my mom had two jobs. i did not see her come home because i was already asleep here she would come home at midnight. it is a perfect example. most of these kids are coming from two jobs. each parent has two jobs, they worked day and night. one close the restaurant and the other goes to clean the house. she goes back to clean offices. god help you if you are a single parent like i was. disconnected i am happy verbalized it clearly. i can only imagine what will inpen to kids today because, some of the schools, there is a disconnect. some of the teachers do not have the time. for your comment or let's let our guest respond. go ahead. guest: that is a good connection to the past segment. let's talk policy wise to it i have a lot of students who come

from the dominican republic, el salvador, a whole bunch of different places across central and south america. what i notice is the policies we have regarding testing are way off. when you have a student who just came in and does not speak much if at all, it, takes a good three or four years for students to fully alchemy to a language. we only get students who are learning shared we do not -- we give them about a year and a day before they have to take an actual english exam standardized. it does not make much sense. in new york state, we give not just an english test, but in english language test. we are giving two types of test, one for the general masses and ,he specific english test

speaking, listening, writing, and reading. why do we also double that up with a regular exam? if they can speak one, can they not speak the other? i do not get what that is about. i find some of the policies we what isnot mesh with happening with students. we need to lend step back a little bit and really think about what student experiences are on a daily basis. host: nick from california, good morning. caller: glad to get through. there is a lot i would like to say. please do not cut me off in five seconds. thinkof all, i kindergarten up to third grade should concentrate on the basics, math, spelling. and arithmetic. they need to learn to use their brain.

not go through all this electronic gadget junk. this, push a button for how to push a button for that. they need to learn to use their brain. they also need to go back and teach kids how to write. do cursive and they are very sloppy on even printing. they need to go back to the basics. gradually, enter the electronic gadget stuff. that everybody must have. and then, anyhow, that is basically it. let the kids learn to use outside of classy little bit to get to know what it is for. why are they not learning this stuff? let them use it? and for testing. teachers should give a little

bit of test just to see how they are doing. increase the test as the year goes on. really learning what your teaching them? host: we will get a response. thanks. go ahead. guest: there are a couple of things there. i do believe our students will need an equitable form of education. that is going to have to come from a standard set really high. why a lot of the promises with the common core standards, a lot of people talk about how we need to have hires standards -- higher standards. we need to have students who are in fact ready to go into any sort of profession. they actually need to learn how to do things. when you do not have a connection between the standards and the practitioners, the teachers actually in the classroom talk about what it

means to have students who are aady to go, then we can have real conversation. the practitioners need to be at the table. have the issues at the table, we will not have a real conversation. there is a discussion about digital arts, if you will, for lack of a better term right now. and the idea that we will lose something if we do not teach kids the basics. end, we have to find a way to deal with the current reality, that students can google pretty much anything. trust the things in front of you if you do not know what to trust, or if you do not have those sensors there to help you out. those teachers have to find a way to think deeper and then teach kids to think deeper than what is in front of them. a lot of what we have right now is about teaching kids how to filter out the information in front of them and working with the information that is there in order to make arguments and be

able to create a better sense of what is going on around them. parents -- teachers -- administrators -- and all others -- is stan, parkville, maryland. a parent. good morning. caller: good morning. a first-time caller. thank you for having me. i have a question relating to standards,ion relating to higher education expectations of students going into college. question i have is, i grew up in the baltimore city public system, and my experience going to college was that, we did not have the adequate preparation for what college is assumed you had going in. the question i had is, if you're looking at education reform, why is it not let that from the perspective of, college students, if a child wants to major in engineering, it is assumed that child already knows

calculus and maybe they just need a review. the childsed on what is assumed to know going in? guest: i think that is a great question because i went through that struggle. when i thought about the way i was brought up in terms of what i needed to learn, i also found there was a disconnect between my senior year of high school, and i went to a really good high school, do not get me wrong. thewhen i went through first year of college, i was stunned. i did not knows much that thought i did. what i found myself doing was i found myself working with other people who did know. often times what we miss out on is not so much about individual knowledge. but then, how do we teach students and generally, how do we teach them to think deeper about the material in front of them? do we teach them in a way that allows them to think deeper?

the whole sequence does not allow for students to just think about things in terms of memorization. you have to be able to think deeper about the math. we haveabout k-12 where teachers that are teaching the memorization and everything is direct, or do we have everything where students can decompose what is in front of them and it is clear. that is the direction of math needs to go. you will get some material that you need to memorize, but there will be material you will not need to memorize because you have to be able to solve problems that we may have the answers to or we may not the answers to. -- may not have the answers to. host: virginia up next, corey, good morning. caller: good morning.

i teach in the eastern part of loudoun county, where about 50% of our students are latino illent and we have a lot of students.nts --els our western county has little to no elo students. in terms of support is left up to teachers. last year, we didn't have the support. program.our elo we did it together and started supplying support for these students. i think teachers get a bad rap on a lot of this that by saying that we're not there and supportive, but the truth of the matter is, we are there and we care more about the students then people think. end, thee other

wealthier people in the county that like to tell us how to do our jobs, i have a masters degree and i work very hard and i'm working toward my specialist degree and i've had parents tell had your job and do nothing all day. it is disheartening. there andachers, are we work on behalf of the students even if we are not given the resources, which happens more often than news inc.. corey, talk a little more about the testing experience. cori, thought little more about the testing experience. how do you prepare for the standardized testing? corey, are you there? it appears he's gone. but you can pick up with his

comments. guest: when it comes to resources, he is right on port. -- on point. people often say that money does thenhange anything, but you say, how come we don't create the same resources for the poor districts that we have for the rich districts. when we have students who have less, we need to give them more. and when we have students who have more, we give them just enough for them to make it. oftentimes equity is, oh, we are just going to give enough. title i is doing good job of that, but is it enough? i don't believe so. we need to do a better job of funding or all of our students so we can have a better preparation for the market. to your point, and this is around testing, and this is also kind of wild.

state learning from march through june. -- we have state testing that relief march through june. it can become kind of daunting that you have to teach at the same time that you are doing all of these standardized tests. it doesn't really allow us to get a better sense of how the students are doing academically. host: this is dallas, texas. liz is a next, hello. caller: hello, i'm coming from the perspective of the student. when i was growing up, they only taught us what was on the standardized test. it wasn't their fault. they were pretty much forced to. my interest wasn't sparked until i got to college and i took philosophy and psychology. coming from that point of view, i completely agree with your thoughts on socioeconomic status. but i also want -- i think you

should add sexism. the subtleties of racism and dissemination in general, and of course, sexism, they are very subtle, but have a huge impact. we should have everybody involved to be aware of those so we can try to prevent a continuation of the prejudice that goes on in this country. i think your comment about whether what you are teaching is to direct, i think it is to direct. when i was learning math, i did not understand that math was logic until my sophomore year of college. they were teaching exactly what was on the test. i have the same problem with the gre. they were testing for logic and i was like, how does that even make sense? day, -- at the end of

the day, we have to spark their it joyful bymake teaching them what is interesting. i didn't study to ace a test. i aced a test because i love to study. that is the point i want to make. bilson will let mr. vilson response -- we will let ilson respond. i love when students want to learn and respond. what she is talking about right there is when we look at students through a racial lens, a gender lens, all of these other lending -- lenses, it keeps them from developing. we need to be responsive to their needs and we need to make sure that all of the expectations for all of our

students are raised. we cannot have students that are at one school and all a color or all girls and decide we are not going to teach them a really high standard of math. we will not teach them a really high standard of science. but we need to find a way to do it in a way that makes it interesting and connects it to the things they are about to do, or that they may be interested in for the future. we give them a toolkit to progress in the future. i think that is what she is talking about there. i have to say there has to be a healthy mix of the right instruction, and in person instruction where students are learning on their own and then getting some of the solutions on their own. host: if you want to find out , you cant luis vilson go to his website. s, you have a-ed

line that goes like this saying, i see public education as an energy that was built for only a small set of people to get in and our country has resisted it at almost every turn. can you expand on that? generally, you look at some of the federal examples and you have to have nearly the national guard coming and say we need to do this better. when it was a mandate to desegregate our schools, people resisted by opting out their students and pushing them into private schools. when you have the closing of an achievement gap in the late 70's and early 80's between students of color and white riddance -- white students, when that gap started getting smaller, people resisted by cutting some of the social services.

that is where the federal government has a role. we have to ensure that our students and schools have some sort of equity. for aunately, that goes lot of public schools that don't have proper -- have the proper because they weren't meant to be equitable. historically, we look at public schools as an entity that ensures equity. if that is the gate, why are all of our schools so disparate in terms of achievement? i don't think that has to do with race or any of the other stuff, but just the base of funding and the way we approach schooling. kids whone set of learn how to read a vcr manual and another set of kids i get to learn and ask laura and debate. -- and explore and debate. -- and another set of kids that

get to learn and explore and debate. we need student leadership, and what i mean by student leadership is every student is learning how to read and write and do math and explore this world and look at the benefits that our country has to offer. all of ourt have students be able to attain that sort of citizenship, then we don't really have equity. campbell does new york -- new york handle the topic of school choice? and where do you stand personally on the topic? personally, i believe the way new york is handy -- handling it is fairly awful. and what i mean by that is, there was a point where new york was, perhaps one of the more aggressive -- more progressive states in terms of funding

schools. we have digressed so far from that that we are one of the most segregated state in the entire nation. is york, a "blue state" struggling to get white students and black students to sit together at schools. and that comes from the policy of the governor, which seems to be hand-in-hand with some of the hedge fund managers and multimillionaires that have taken over a lot of the discussion of education reform in new york. charter schools, public schools as well, and private schools, we have all of this school choice. but a lot of it is a false choice. when you have schools that are brightly colored and has brand-new paint and is funded by wine and cheese and caviar, and then you have another school that it still has decrepit

, a school from 50 years is not axample, that choice. of course the students and parents will choose the school that is brand-new and brightly painted. i think the length of its, especially venture philanthropist, those who seek to have a favor for a favor don't want to fund schools equitably. they want to have a situation where you have one school where they may or may not fund at the time alll at the same the time. but public schools have to be funded in the same way. sense of to be that equity. but with all the school choice that is going on and as a false choice, then you will still keep having segregation and inequity and disproportionate achievement

gaps. it is not really choice. it is a false choice. host: from fresh meadows, new york, paul is next. caller: very nice speaking to you. it is a pleasure to have a program like c-span. my question is, when my children testing, iool before felt there was an air of collaboration between the principal and the teachers and the focus was the children. and it all funneled into that. now i find it is a more of an .dversary role and my second thing is, when will people realize finally that foratter what teachers do eight hours in a classroom if it is not supported in a home environment, or us creating a civic center in hours -- a civic center for after hours, then we will not be able to raise them

up. we will not take them away from their parents, but we have to do as a society to make sure they have the same opportunities when they go home at night as every other child does. thank you very much and i appreciate your opinion. guest: that is an amazing comment. i thank you for that. one, i would say there are still spaces where the principal and the teachers do collaborate a lot, but that has ofdo with a mentality collaboration versus competitiveness. with no child left behind and along with top, and the state policies that have come out of that era, they came of making sure that people are always competing with each other, teachers against teachers, students against students, school against school. if you have a real democracy, that means every teacher is

serving every student. every principle is serving every teacher. and when we have to look at the collaboration between the principal and the teachers is that the principle is it -- that the principal is a master teacher. teachers are trying to serve our students. oure are there to serve students, then we always have that mentality. but if we are fighting against each other, then we are not really teaching each other. let's hear from darrell in national, georgia. caller: good morning. how are you doing? guest: i'm good. how are you? caller: i'm doing fine. i've just been listening to all of these comments and i have three points i would like to make. if you make -- if you give me time to make it. when my daughter was in school,

parents have to get involved also. you cannot just send your kids to school schoolhouse and they do all these bad things and then raise cain with the teachers. school,daughter was in i knew what she was doing and i was out there with her. go and visit that school. i'm quite sure the principal will let them walk around and check on your center dot her and see what he were she is doing. i'm down here in south georgia before the florida line. i think the government should have government agents go out and check all of the schools and city of the teachers are doing. i'm not saying you are a bad teacher, because i respect the job you are doing with the school and what you deserve there. but there are some teachers that do not take the time.

there were three young men last year that went all the way through the 12th grade and could not pass a simple math test. can you tell me what is wrong with that problem? that's cool allow them to sit in a classroom -- that school allow them to sit in the classroom when they could not pass the math test. guest: a couple of things with that. one, as a teacher, my response ability is to build the relationship with the students in front of me. and of course, one of the ways i do that is by calling everything will be our very early on. of course, there always be miscommunication, -- there will always be missed medication, but generally i try to have a good relationship with the parents as well as the students. i work with the things i can control. that we cane idea

work with that teachers, whatever that means, by just inspecting. that is fine, but we also need a clear criteria for what makes a good competent teacher. example, veryfor good grades from the students, but some of the students may not feel as competent in their class for whatever reason, or they don't have a good relationship with the teacher. there are a plethora of things that can happen. there are mechanisms by which we can do this sort of research. the third thing is, we don't take education research all that seriously. if this country did, then we would have a much larger reformation for what education policy is. host: one more call. ed is from jackson, tennessee, our line for parents. , i don'tey, mr. vilson

know if you are aware of the american study that showed that kids social skills are key to success. withowed that youngsters social competence and social skills were more likely than other kids to hold -- to graduate high school, hold a degree and other things. it was a better predictor than race, sects, or family income. sex, or family income. healthier andere wealthier by age 32 even when they bring in such factors as iq and social class. useinland, they don't even the word competition. all their teachers have a masters degree. saying, the were schools that are not doing as good, those that are doing good will help by sending teachers and to help those that are not.

amazing, thank you. actually, i want to talk a little bit about finland, too. what people talk about is this idea of a extended time and giving more time for teachers to work with students, more and more. what i often think is, instead how to to think about use our time more effectively. one of the main points is that i noticed the american school system has teachers in front of students for about 1300 hrs, which doesn't sound like a lot about then you think average of the industrialized nations only spend on average a good 600 or 700 hours in front of students. even finland, everybody is talking about finland. that is the other "f" word in education, right? when you look at the amount they

, teachers in front of students, it is around 700. the other time is not being spent just hanging out. most of it is about planning. studentshe things that don't get to see, although -- all of the grading papers, calling parents, and ensuring that students are working diligently. these things do not just happen in the classroom. they happen when the lights are off, if you will, when the teacher's office page. , before we letn you go, we have been talking with our viewers about this this -- across the nation that parents are keeping their kids home whenever a standardized testing. was a story about 20% of new york state students opted out of standardized testing. what do you think of this? guest: i'm in full support of

the opt out movement also let me make that vividly clear. opt out movement. let me make that vividly clear. at the same time, we have to comesize that this 20% from people who already have the agency by which to resist. people,ind that especially people of color who are in public schools don't often feel like they have the mechanism by which to resist the absurd amount of testing that our students go through. they say, well, teachers should just prepare students to get tested. and i often find that when you have that much testing, you don't really get a lot of feedback as far as the teachers are concerned, the students are concerned, the principles are concerned. and you stress the students out more so by giving them so many test. , find,e going to opt out

and let's keep doing it. and we need to make sure we have equitable systems. i keep pushing that equity button, because for all the folks opting out, it is great that you are doing it. and you are doing it because your particular student should not have to feel the burden of over testing. at the same time, there are all of these folks who are all full -- also being over testing, but they don't have their schools well-funded and they do not have equitable situation. alwayschers are not competent and responding to what is going on with them. have that find line of opting out and pushing back against the status quo of education reform and understanding we need to move in of making sure that all students and teachers and parents have the equity of voice in our policy to push back against the over testing of our students. host: our guest has been hose a

ose luis vilson, thank you for joining us on c-span. guest: thank you for having me. we talked about standardized testing and opting out of it for a last segment this morning. of it, wee a view want to get your thoughts on it. the numbers are on the screen. your view of standardized tests. call now. we will take those calls in just a moment as "washington journal" continues in just a moment. ♪

saturday, august 20 night, marks the 10th anniversary of hurricane -- august 29, marks 10th anniversary of hurricane katrina. beginning tonight at 8:00 p.m., coverage of what is happened -- e and >> they loaded us up on these military trucks and then they declare the city of new orleans, early spares, and jefferson and it stillzone didn't sink in that we were the prisoners of war. >> wednesday at 8:00 p.m., c-span's tour of st. bernard parish in louisiana. gone,t is your whole life completely.

and not only your house, but your whole community. all of her friends, family, everybody is gone. and now it's going to be a year later and you still don't see family and friends anymore that you use just the. .- that you use to see you don't forget it the rest of your life. >> followed at nine with a 2005 town hall meeting in new orleans moderated by mayor ray nagin. i'm calling on you. i know all of this is state level, federal level, and all other levels will stop i don't have them will stop i voted for you -- i don't have them. i voted for you to represent me on a local level. i don't know where else to go will stop i don't know where else -- what else to do. >> thursday night at 8:00, more on the conference in new orleans with craig phuket. -- craig fufgate.

hurricane katrina anniversary coverage all this week on c-span. "washington journal" continues. your view of standardized tests for educators, give your thoughts. the numbers are on the screen. there is a poll done by fire .ata celt love and gallup in the most recent full -- poll, they were asking participants to give their opinions of the use of standardized testing effectiveness in school. 14% responded that it was very important. 42% that it was somewhat

important. 28% that it was not very important and 13% was that it was not important at all. you may have your thoughts. we have divided the lines. you heard our previous guest mentioned briefly about the opting out of the standardized tests. joining us on the phone to talk more about his m a brown with the "washington post." brown with the "washington post." could you paint more of a picture about what it means for these students taking the test? guest: there are hotspots around it is still aere minority of people, but a growing minority of people. as you mention, new york is

really the epicenter of this movement where 20% of kids this year opted out. this as as, they see form of civil disobedience, protest against the test. every pair has their own reason, but what many say is they are protesting the way that schooling has become so much about testing, that there is so much pressure on not just kids to do well, but i teachers to make sure that -- but on teachers to make sure that kids do very well. where you does it do see these concentrations, these localities opting out? what does it do for the school system? guest: that has been unclear when it is clear that there are places like new york amount of, new mexico, new jersey with a large proportion of people

opting out. it has not been clear. the federal law requires 95% of students in school to take the test. this is the first year that there have been a lot of places where it is clear that there could be more than 5% of kids that opt out. just a few days ago the federal department of education and new york state officials said there were no consequences for the schools that had high opt out in new york. they are not going to lose any money. what civil rights advocates would say is that what this does to school systems is that it makes it impossible to track the achievement gap, makes it impossible to know what is going on with test scores when you have such a high percentage of students who are not showing up in the overall scores. host: as far as the trend is concerned, is this a growing trend? guest: absolutely. two years ago, the opt out movement was tiny. it was not something that the national newspapers were picking up on at that point.

last year, it sort of began to hit the national consciousness. and this year, it has been a flood of media-- coverage. sometimes media coverage outpaces the apple -- the actual trend of growth. but in this case, in particular in new york, it shows it is a real trend. host: as far as the companies that administer the tests, has there been reaction from them? seen -- theen't most well-known company in this regard, pearson, who makes one of the common core exams i believe in new york, i have not --n any response form them from them. i think they believe that to the

school and government to answer those questions. is talking with us about the state of education testing. you can see her comments at the "washington post." thanks for joining us. guest: thank you. host: you can join the conversation. the numbers are on the screen. let's start with chris in florida. caller: the whole thing with the 100%ardized test is it is the teachers unions not wanting to be held accountable for the education of students. in the largest school district in the state of florida. a few years back, they were tested and a large percentage of the students failed. so they changed the test. and they didn't change the test

on a move forward basis. they changed it so that everyone did great. in atlanta, you have a situation where there were administrators doctoring tests. and the whole teaching to the test, what we used to call that in school was cheating. except it is the teachers doing the ones -- doing what is called cheating. theeed test of what students don't know. the teachers don't want to see that because it hold them responsible for it. and blameparents society, but they don't want to take responsibility for our failing school system, which has been failing for decades. host: jeremy lives in washington , and educator. hi, jeremy. i just want to say i spent a lot of time in my ged class, michael enzi class in high school. i'm teaching thing -- the

equivalent of the class in high school. i'm teaching things that are not 100% useful for their future careers and it frustrates them and turns them off. a lot of them do not get there high school diploma because it turns them off and they cannot get the things that are useful for their careers. perhaps they -- we could be better preparing them if we taught them soft skills, de-escalation techniques. host: as far as the tests are concerned about what do they show as far as the competency of the student? what information is given to the school system? we definitely know what will be on the test. we have a general gist of it. english and other tests are pretty much reading comprehension, and i support with those teach. the math test is so awful. it is way too hard for any normal person and it is just unnecessary and it is holding

probably thousands of people in this nation back, maybe tens of thousands. host: the story in the washington post this morning .akes a look at expulsion rates it says that a higher expulsion has been found. those students that are expelled or suspended our late -- are have issues with problem behavior. counseling is trying to redefine problem behavior in the first place. your thoughts on standardized tests. ted in idaho, good morning. i don't think they

should be able to opt out of standardized testing. it just shows what a student learns in high school. they should be able to pass these tests, and if they don't, they will not be leaders of tomorrow and they will not do well in college. host: then you support the standardized test overall? caller: yes, i support that. host: tell me a little bit about how it is done in your school and how your students perform overall. caller: i am not a teacher. i have an associate of arts in welding technology. a lot of students are 18 and 19 years old and they come into these trade technical programs and a lot of them don't know the basic mathematics or basic reading comprehension. they just seem like they are way behind. maybe they are in college, accepted to maybe fill up enrollment, but they are not really that smart.

they have their standardized test, so maybe they did not learn that much in high school. well inwill not do college or be a leader of tomorrow. to the next call. you are on. a problemdon't have with standardized test as long as it uses just one measure of student and teacher effectiveness. the problem is that too often it is used as the sole measure of teacher effectiveness. then it ends up driving the train and shaping the curriculum. that is not always providing the kids with what they need. host: what other factors should be put into it as far as the evaluation purposes are concerned? caller: one problem with standardized, at least here in virginia, is that they are just a snapshot in time.

for example, i teach eighth-grade science and my test covers 6, 7, and eight great. on a 50 question test, kids are expected to demonstrate knowledge of three years worth of material. maybe there is one question on the solar system. if they get that question wrong, it is assumed that they know nothing about space and that is wrong. you cannot take a snapshot and then use that as the sole driver of the curriculum. host: as far as an educator is concerned, what is it like preparing for these tests? theer: it is awful, because test is given usually three, sometimes for weeks before the end of the school year, and everything is shut down. the emphasis becomes "prepare for the test." you have to cram a years worth of material into much less than a year because then after the test the kids will ask you, do

we still have to learn?because once the test is over, in their mind, school is over. host: also on the line for educators, robert in florida. the results of the tests are used incorrectly. they should be used to measure the curriculum of the school and two in proof -- to improve the quality of the education and the delivery of that education. the student should never be evaluated by right and wrong answers on the test. because the students are only responding to what they have been taught. steve for i lives in sanford, florida. you are walk -- you are on. we are asking about standardized tests. caller: i want to give the student perspective. when i was in school, i didn't learn that much, but then again, i was very lazy in class. didi did have teachers that

drive my imagination to at least think about things that were different and i think that is one of the things missing from school these days. there is not enough challenging the mind to ask the question why this happened or why has been done or wife for so many years. i was not asking that question until i went to middle school and my teacher punched me in the face and through me back into time and said today is the revolution. it is ok to do those things at the younger age. but when we get to the high school level, i think it is time for us to start to challenge the students and say, how about you question this question mark how about you question the way our government is? why this you question formula has been in our math equations for years? it is these questions that drive our students and make them who they are today.

the: an announcement from white house says the national security advisor susan rice will go to beijing, china august 20 to meet with officials on -- to consult on a range of global bilateral and regional issues. issues of discuss advancement. jim is next. your view of standardized tests. hi, i'm 77 years old. i went to public school until the third grade. and then i went to private schools. and i was tested all along. school, it grammar was tested in order to get into then toary school, and

get into college i was tested again. i am a harvard graduate. i got into harvard by taking standardized test. discussion is a great puzzlement to me. how do you measure things? testshools i got into use as one measure of measurement, but they also considered other aspects of my bringing in order to accept me -- of my up ringing in order to ask at me. a testing had to be part of the whole nature. i speak to languages. i'm very well-educated. i went on beyond harvard. i got more graduate education, but testing was part of the whole picture.

i'm just puzzled over this whole discussion. ontario, canada, maria joins us. caller: ontario, california. host: i'm sorry, go ahead. caller: i am a parent and i'm for standardized testing to measure the effectiveness of the education, the quality. what else about the school system? children have the right to an education. only beurement should for the state and it should not be tied into teacher evaluation. about local control, that should be done there. but it should be just, everyone should be aware of how the kids are performing throughout the state. host: do you have students in the california system? caller: yes. and: how often do they test

how does the school prepare them? caller: the way i see it, it is all the time preparing for the test. month -- itke every not like every month and then every six months, but for the standardized test. the 5000 cap -- phi delta kappa survey i showed you asked abouty also measuring effectiveness of schools. 78% said how students engaged in the class was important. the percentage of students who graduate from high school. all the way to the end, only 14%

of respondents said it was the scores of students received on standardized test was most important in judging the effectiveness. aboutof questions education and testing and those issues in that survey. robert from florida, hello. caller: hello. host: you are on, sir. go ahead. my feeling as someone who works as a manager and employs people, and hires people and interviews people, and as someone who went through testing himself, i don't see a way to skirt around standardized testing. we need to look at schools as forg the nurturing points kids to grow and develop into responsible human beings and to become an employee of. employers more and more are

demanding certain sets of the .anking industry you will want people who are qualified in mathematics and accounting. in the sciences, you will need people with aptitude. you will need surgeons who know what a scalpel is. go intohat we can just a classroom environment -- go on a classroom environment and who -- to say that we can just go on a classroom and who is participating is going to hurt the environment. one problem i have also is that education is not changing. one thing that needs to change his cameras in schools. we have no accountability without seeing what is going on in the schools. we have kids coming home saying, or kidsng bullied" saying "we don't do anything in

class" or "i'm being picked on in class." thecan we not have environment monitored so we can see what is going on in the system?nal maybe that would bring the changes we need. but i don't think cutting standardized test is the way to start. is from the "new york times" this morning. announcing that they will withdraw thousands of arrest warrants in taking steps to prevent the incarceration of people who cannot pay fines and fees. it is a response to a sharp criticism of its court system that emerged after the killing of michael brown last year. the measure goes beyond a state law set to take effect on friday that limits the amount of money minas valleys can keep from minor traffic offenses and imposes safeguards on the amount of time people can be locked up for failing to provide fees.

joan from pennsylvania, thanks for calling. caller: first of all, thank you for c-span. as a grandparent can i want to recount a bit of a conversation i had with my granddaughter a few minutes ago -- few months ago. so sixth years old, grade. she was about to take the standardized test. and i said, have you decided to take it? and she said, i have to. and i said, oh, your parents want you to take it? and she said, no, if i don't take the test i will not allow to be in the gifted and talented program anymore. and i said, who said that, and .he said, the school i thought that was interesting. and she said the students who opted out of taking the test were not allowed to leave the room and go to the library to study or something like that. they had to sit in the room quietly while everyone else took the test and not do anything.

i thought that was kind of punitive for the people who were opting out of this. maybe there was something to be said from the woman who you had on a little earlier who spoke about civil disobedience and not wanting their kids to just follow everything being put before them in a school system. in this case it was like, if you don't take your test, here is your option over here. thank you very much. host: teresa from florida, you are next on the parents line. i used to be a foster parent and i work with many kids who have taken standardized tests. i disagree with standardized testing. my reason being, schools like

like individuals. if you are in a wealthy school district, your experience at that school is going to be totally different than your experience in a -- at an inner-city school, maybe in a poor neighborhood. how can you have standardized test across the board and have them be fair? i will give you an example. that theyquestions would not know the answer to. teacuptance, does the belong on the table, the windowsill, or a saucer? maybe a child that comes from an upper class or wealthy neighborhood understands it belongs on a saucer. but a child that comes from lower-class would think, welcome i put my dishes on the table. but that answer would be wrong.

is an example of why i think the standardized test are wrong. a lot of the kids i work with our 15, 17, and 10 years old, and not -- and cannot spell the words subway or wednesday. this should be collaborative data. this should not hinder the students progression because they are not creating these tests equal. these are not uniform product like toasters on an assembly line. there is no way to measure someone's level of intelligence with the information being obtained. there just is not. these tests can be used for collaborative data, or maybe if you are failing you can use the test to help you get a next her push if that is what you need. of these tests should not keep you from graduating. -- but these tests should not

keep you from graduating. and if you are failing a class, maybe you could use the test to help you understand. host: thank you. matalin, brooklyn, new york, and educator. you are on, go ahead. thatr: i was going to say the idea of opting out of a test -- talking on the phone. do not listen to the tv. caller: what i want to tell you is that the idea of opting out doesn't really exist in new york city. they use the term opt out, but it is refusal to take the test by law. i'm sorry? host: go ahead. outer: the idea of opting doesn't exist. however, the pearson tests are tired -- are terrible. rows and havet incorrect material in them. they are grammatically incorrect -- they have typos and have incorrect material in them.

they are grammatically incorrect often. should behe term refusal, which is a strong term, but correct. because no child left behind leaves you know option. there is no option. it is refusal to take a test and whatever happens after that just happens. there are children going on to middle school with no test scores. that can be detrimental. host: let's hear from tom in missouri. good morning, tom. caller: good morning. i'm actually against standardized tests of my experiences in school. that is because i did find my chemistry class, and this is 45 years ago. when it came time for the final test of the semester, they were all standardized and i could not pass one. i think each individual student should be taken individually on whether they want to take it or

not because not all kids can understand what is on those standardized tests. that is all i got to say. host: when it comes to measuring progress, the poll asked about what was most important. most responded that it was the students work that was most important. that was followed by written observations by the teacher and the grades awarded by the teacher. percentage, 60% said it was scores on the standardized achievement tests -- 16% said it was scores on the standardized achievement tests. john in florida. caller: i look at it from a big -- a bit different perspective. one of them being from the caribbean. if it is a student from south korea or china in algebra, we can opt out. it should be the student being responsible, not the parent or the school alone.

it is the same thing in the military. suppose i join in new jersey and you join in texas. fire adon't know how to weapon, you might get me killed. let's put the emphasis on the student and make the that kidsed test so from california and new jersey can be compared to each other. host: greg from ohio, hi. hello. first of all, i think the way people talk about standardized tests, it has become a general pejorative term. they don't think about what it's all about. , just as andard standard we should live by or learned by. problems that the

could be solved is by having the test at the beginning of the year in that of the end of the year. the end of the year. kids, for summer break -- the kids come off of summer break two or three days before they take the test. it will show what they've learned. that is the we really want to know, what they know. not what they have been being drilled over for the last couple of weeks or months. inks for the call. george is up next, jacksonville, florida. i have lived and worked in 12 countries in good systems -- school systems and dad. the federal government -- in good school systems and that once. the federal government should have testing, but the content should be set by local employers and parents working together.

i will give you two examples. in our high school in rural alabama, the girls wanted to learn how to do mortgage calculations and savings calculations called future values. i cannot find a single kid in this country that knows how to do this excel calculation. highestwo, i have the starting salary at my university because i already had experience in the technical areas before i became an engineer. my ninth grade, we should follow the british system, which is to test them for specific things, whether they want to be a welder, an engineer, a doctor. and then put them in a kind of technical training and then they can come -- they can come along and be a professional if they are trained to do it. systemot set up the host: professionally. --host: mindy from arizona.

i want to say that i think the standardized test is a bunch of bull. my daughter has been in school for five years now. they talk about no child left behind, then why is she in special ed? president's trip west when it talks -- when it comes to talk about climate change and clean energy. a series ofunce measures to announce solar power construction. and next week he will become the first sitting president to visit the arctic circle in alaska. that is out of the "new york for ournd that is it program today. another edition of this program comes your way at 7:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. we will see you then.